The Prayer We Thought We Knew, Ep 5 - Does God Tempt Us?

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Why would we have

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to ask God not to

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lead us into

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temptation?

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I was going to say,

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as the Christian in

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the room, you

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should answer that.

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Well, why do people

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think that that's

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so weird? I mean,

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isn't it

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sort of saying,

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"I'm weak. I won't

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be able to resist.

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Help me"?

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It's the leading. I

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could understand

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like, you know,

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"Hey, protect me

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from

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temptation, but

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don't bring me

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there." Does God

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actually provide

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the temptation, not

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just simply fail to

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protect us?

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Judaism, there's

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this yetzer

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hara, the

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temptation to do

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bad, is

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built into us.

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The Jewish

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tradition then

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continues and says,

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Without the

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inclination to do

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evil, we wouldn't

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get married. We

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wouldn't build

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things. If it

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weren't for "I want

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my genes

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to live on,"

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nothing would get

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done. The whole

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evil, good thing.

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I'm so

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uncomfortable. I'm

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like shifting

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in my chair now

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because it's so not

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Buddhism. What do

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we mean by evil?

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Because there's so

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many similarities

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between Jesus being

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tempted by Satan

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and the Buddha

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being

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tempted by Mara.

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There is something

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being told us about

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the necessity for

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what we consider

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temptation

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befalling us. I

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think that's where

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we get to actually

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the heart

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of the matter

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about temptation

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that I think is

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overlooked by most

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of society. Like we

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think about

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temptation

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being like sex,

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drugs, rock and

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roll. But I think

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actually...

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[Music]

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Welcome to the

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Converging Paths

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podcast. I'm Eric

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Elnes, your host.

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Once again, I am

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joined by my

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friends, Rabbi

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Brian Zachary

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Mayer. Woo! And Zen

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Buddhist teacher

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Esther

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Freinkel-Tishman.

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Hello.

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Today, our

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interfaith journey

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through the Lord's

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Prayer brings us to

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the line,

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"Lead us not into

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temptation, but

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deliver us from

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evil." Now, this

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reminds me of a

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remarkably

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honest line from

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Augustine's

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Confessions where

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he acknowledges

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that as a

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younger man,

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he recognized that

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he needed to change

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some things in his

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life. But he

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prayed, "Lord,

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give me chastity

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and countenance,

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but not yet." I

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have the feeling we

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can all relate in

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some level

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to that kind of

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prayer. We

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recognize we need

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to be free of

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something that we

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feel diminishes us,

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but we're not quite

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ready to be free

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from that. And of

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course, sometimes

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temptations

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themselves

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don't appear wrong

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or evil to begin

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with anyway. So

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Brian and Esther, I

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want to

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start with a

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slightly dangerous

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question. When was

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the last time that

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you said yes to

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something

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you should

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have said no to,

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whether you

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realized it at the

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time or later on?

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Yeah, Brian.

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Well, that was nose

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goes. That means

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Esther goes first.

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Oh, that means I go.

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Oh, okay.

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I mean, just last

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night, but it was

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to the leftovers

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from my

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husband's dinner,

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because he's trying

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to eat less, so

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that means that

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there's often, "Here,

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have some of mine."

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But I have a

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feeling that's not

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quite the moral

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depth of the

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question. I tend to

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say yes to

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professional

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opportunities,

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where it's like,

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"Hey, would you

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like to do this?"

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And it's like,

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"Really? Me? Sure.

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Yes." And then I

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regret overloading

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myself. But at the

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same time,

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the idea of the

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FOMO, the fear of

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missing out on the

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one hand,

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and then also

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the sense of being

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needed and of being

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valued and

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valuable, and let

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me use my talents,

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let me use

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my training. So

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it's very hard to

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say no when someone

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is saying, "You are

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the person

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to do this."

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Were you tempted

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into the Converging

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Paths

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podcast, by chance?

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That was an easy

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thing to say yes to

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and not regret.

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Brian, how

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about you?

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I said yes to this

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program before I

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knew what I was

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doing, so let me

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give a

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different example.

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Let me just clarify

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that, just what a

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good guy Brian is.

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If I say, "Hey,

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Brian, would you,"

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and he'll say yes

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before I get

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through saying the

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same result. I

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mean, what

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kind of friend,

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like that is

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a rare friend.

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Yes.

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Okay. So I'm in a

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lighting store with

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my sister. She's

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looking for

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sconces. I happen

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to do stained

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glass. I don't want

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to do a stained

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glass project for

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my sister, and I

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tell myself,

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"Don't offer,

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don't offer, don't

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offer." She asks

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the sales attendant

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some question, and

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I say, "You know,

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I can make

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something."

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Yeah.

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Could not

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control it.

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Yeah, I can relate

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to that too. Boy,

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yeah, I guess we're

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all tempted a lot.

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Yeah, I think about

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one that still kind

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of stings behind

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this screen here is

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a cardboard tube

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with a beautiful

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print made by an

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indigenous artist

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in Victoria, BC

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that I just,

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when I saw it,

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slaughtered me. I

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mean, I felt such a

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deep resonance with

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it. And I happened

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to be in this

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little art store,

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and Melanie had

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left to go do other

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shopping, and I was

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just going

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through page

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after page of

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lithographs and so

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forth and spotted

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this one. And it

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just reached out

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and grabbed me

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and says, "I know

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who you are." And

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I'm like, "Oh, like

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this." And I just

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was so

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enamored. It was a

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little pricey. And

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I just, I had to

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get it. I bought

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the thing, wrapped

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it up in the tube,

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they wrapped up the

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tube, and I went

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out and found

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Melanie. And she's

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like,

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"What's that?"

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And goes, "Oh, I

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bought a piece of

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art." "Oh, really?

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How much was it?" I

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told her, and her

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face just dropped.

310
01:05:51,875 --> 01:05:52,791
She's like, "You

311
01:05:52,791 --> 01:05:54,041
made that level of

312
01:05:54,041 --> 01:05:55,166
decision without us

313
01:05:55,166 --> 01:05:56,000
talking about it?"

314
01:05:58,666 --> 01:06:00,916
Yeah.

315
01:06:00,916 --> 01:06:01,458
And it was

316
01:06:01,458 --> 01:06:02,416
something I knew

317
01:06:02,416 --> 01:06:03,291
better. Maybe

318
01:06:03,291 --> 01:06:04,208
looking back, maybe

319
01:06:04,208 --> 01:06:04,958
I even wanted to

320
01:06:04,958 --> 01:06:05,333
act on it,

321
01:06:05,333 --> 01:06:06,791
lest she say, "No,

322
01:06:06,791 --> 01:06:07,375
let's not get

323
01:06:07,375 --> 01:06:08,500
that." I wanted it

324
01:06:08,500 --> 01:06:09,916
so badly. But

325
01:06:09,916 --> 01:06:10,500
whatever it was,

326
01:06:10,500 --> 01:06:11,416
my focus was so

327
01:06:11,416 --> 01:06:11,833
great. It just

328
01:06:11,875 --> 01:06:12,416
washed out

329
01:06:12,416 --> 01:06:13,541
everything. And it

330
01:06:13,541 --> 01:06:14,666
ruined at

331
01:06:15,250 --> 01:06:15,875
least a half

332
01:06:15,875 --> 01:06:16,750
a day of that

333
01:06:16,750 --> 01:06:17,833
wonderful vacation

334
01:06:17,833 --> 01:06:18,666
we took that was a

335
01:06:18,666 --> 01:06:19,458
three-day vacation.

336
01:06:20,291 --> 01:06:20,750
And I still

337
01:06:20,750 --> 01:06:21,291
don't have it.

338
01:06:21,791 --> 01:06:23,708
So Eric, if I may,

339
01:06:23,750 --> 01:06:24,541
I think that means

340
01:06:24,541 --> 01:06:25,375
you did not pray

341
01:06:25,375 --> 01:06:26,208
the Lord's Prayer

342
01:06:26,208 --> 01:06:26,791
properly.

343
01:06:26,791 --> 01:06:28,541
I did not,

344
01:06:28,541 --> 01:06:30,708
apparently. I led

345
01:06:30,708 --> 01:06:31,416
myself into

346
01:06:31,416 --> 01:06:33,583
temptation and was

347
01:06:33,583 --> 01:06:33,791
not

348
01:06:33,791 --> 01:06:35,291
delivered from evil.

349
01:06:36,250 --> 01:06:37,041
And then to this

350
01:06:37,041 --> 01:06:37,958
day, it's not up in

351
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:39,000
my studio because

352
01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:39,708
it still kind of

353
01:06:39,708 --> 01:06:40,125
stings a

354
01:06:40,125 --> 01:06:40,583
little bit.

355
01:06:40,791 --> 01:06:41,375
For me, I don't

356
01:06:41,375 --> 01:06:41,791
even know if it

357
01:06:41,791 --> 01:06:42,625
stings for Melanie.

358
01:06:42,791 --> 01:06:43,458
There is a kind of

359
01:06:43,458 --> 01:06:44,500
common thread in

360
01:06:44,500 --> 01:06:44,958
the three

361
01:06:44,958 --> 01:06:45,708
temptations that we

362
01:06:45,708 --> 01:06:46,250
just each

363
01:06:46,250 --> 01:06:46,791
described,

364
01:06:46,791 --> 01:06:47,416
I think, which is

365
01:06:47,416 --> 01:06:48,125
that feeling of

366
01:06:48,125 --> 01:06:48,750
like you're being

367
01:06:48,750 --> 01:06:50,000
seen by something.

368
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:51,333
It's like, "You."

369
01:06:52,125 --> 01:06:55,250
This art knows you.

370
01:06:55,458 --> 01:06:56,083
Or when someone

371
01:06:56,083 --> 01:06:58,000
says to me, "You're

372
01:06:58,000 --> 01:06:58,666
the person to do

373
01:06:58,666 --> 01:06:59,250
this." And

374
01:06:59,250 --> 01:07:00,500
even the sort

375
01:07:00,500 --> 01:07:01,875
of like, "I can do

376
01:07:01,875 --> 01:07:03,041
that. I know I can

377
01:07:03,041 --> 01:07:03,500
do that, but I

378
01:07:03,500 --> 01:07:04,333
shouldn't." But

379
01:07:04,333 --> 01:07:04,708
that

380
01:07:04,708 --> 01:07:06,916
temptation to be

381
01:07:07,416 --> 01:07:08,875
for the universe to

382
01:07:08,875 --> 01:07:10,458
pull you out and

383
01:07:10,458 --> 01:07:11,708
say, "I see you."

384
01:07:11,708 --> 01:07:13,750
And it lifts you up

385
01:07:13,750 --> 01:07:14,500
a little bit,

386
01:07:14,833 --> 01:07:16,000
like, "I, yeah."

387
01:07:16,875 --> 01:07:17,416
That's very

388
01:07:17,416 --> 01:07:18,750
interesting. Well,

389
01:07:18,791 --> 01:07:19,666
and I think there's

390
01:07:19,666 --> 01:07:21,375
some other threads

391
01:07:21,375 --> 01:07:22,000
too we might

392
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:22,500
build upon it,

393
01:07:22,500 --> 01:07:23,125
but maybe a little

394
01:07:23,125 --> 01:07:24,250
later on, I'm

395
01:07:24,583 --> 01:07:25,500
wondering about in

396
01:07:25,875 --> 01:07:26,250
our three

397
01:07:26,250 --> 01:07:27,291
responses. But

398
01:07:27,833 --> 01:07:28,791
let's like get into

399
01:07:28,791 --> 01:07:29,625
this line. There's

400
01:07:29,625 --> 01:07:30,166
something that's

401
01:07:30,250 --> 01:07:31,125
rather odd about

402
01:07:31,125 --> 01:07:31,583
this line that

403
01:07:31,583 --> 01:07:32,541
struck Christians

404
01:07:32,541 --> 01:07:32,833
throughout

405
01:07:32,833 --> 01:07:34,208
the ages and

406
01:07:34,208 --> 01:07:35,083
others, observances

407
01:07:35,083 --> 01:07:36,500
of it. Like, why

408
01:07:36,500 --> 01:07:37,083
would we have to

409
01:07:37,083 --> 01:07:39,041
ask God not

410
01:07:39,041 --> 01:07:40,541
to lead us into

411
01:07:40,541 --> 01:07:42,125
temptation? Like,

412
01:07:42,125 --> 01:07:42,625
what's up with

413
01:07:42,625 --> 01:07:44,750
that? And I'm

414
01:07:44,750 --> 01:07:45,000
wondering,

415
01:07:45,000 --> 01:07:45,541
Brian, if...

416
01:07:45,541 --> 01:07:45,875
I think...

417
01:07:46,041 --> 01:07:46,750
Yeah, go ahead.

418
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:47,875
Well, I was going to

419
01:07:47,875 --> 01:07:48,583
say, as the

420
01:07:48,583 --> 01:07:49,250
Christian in the

421
01:07:49,250 --> 01:07:49,750
room, you should

422
01:07:49,750 --> 01:07:50,291
answer that.

423
01:07:50,500 --> 01:07:51,333
Oh, okay.

424
01:07:54,125 --> 01:07:54,916
Well, why do people

425
01:07:54,916 --> 01:07:55,458
think that that's

426
01:07:55,458 --> 01:07:56,375
so weird? I mean,

427
01:07:56,375 --> 01:07:56,750
isn't it

428
01:07:56,750 --> 01:07:57,708
sort of saying,

429
01:07:57,750 --> 01:07:58,750
"I'm weak. I'm

430
01:07:58,750 --> 01:08:00,791
weak, God. I won't

431
01:08:00,791 --> 01:08:01,750
be able to resist.

432
01:08:01,750 --> 01:08:02,916
Help me." Like, why

433
01:08:02,916 --> 01:08:03,250
is that

434
01:08:03,250 --> 01:08:04,125
thought to be

435
01:08:05,083 --> 01:08:07,458
so odd that we

436
01:08:07,458 --> 01:08:08,666
want to ask God not

437
01:08:08,666 --> 01:08:09,916
to lead us into

438
01:08:09,916 --> 01:08:10,666
temptation?

439
01:08:11,083 --> 01:08:12,041
I think it's the

440
01:08:12,041 --> 01:08:13,166
leading. Like,

441
01:08:13,750 --> 01:08:14,333
yeah, I could

442
01:08:14,333 --> 01:08:15,041
understand, like,

443
01:08:15,166 --> 01:08:16,041
hey, protect me

444
01:08:16,041 --> 01:08:16,916
from temptation,

445
01:08:16,916 --> 01:08:18,625
but don't bring me

446
01:08:18,625 --> 01:08:19,583
there. And the

447
01:08:19,583 --> 01:08:20,291
Greek doesn't help

448
01:08:20,291 --> 01:08:20,833
us. It doesn't

449
01:08:21,125 --> 01:08:22,125
soften that,

450
01:08:22,958 --> 01:08:24,041
particularly. It

451
01:08:24,041 --> 01:08:24,958
really means lead

452
01:08:24,958 --> 01:08:28,333
or bring there. I

453
01:08:28,333 --> 01:08:30,375
know Jeremiah has

454
01:08:30,375 --> 01:08:30,875
this rant

455
01:08:30,875 --> 01:08:31,416
about God,

456
01:08:31,416 --> 01:08:32,625
"You have enticed

457
01:08:32,625 --> 01:08:33,125
me and I've been

458
01:08:33,125 --> 01:08:34,291
enticed. Do you

459
01:08:34,291 --> 01:08:34,666
give me this

460
01:08:34,666 --> 01:08:35,250
message that I

461
01:08:35,250 --> 01:08:35,541
can't..."

462
01:08:35,541 --> 01:08:36,041
You know, it wells

463
01:08:36,041 --> 01:08:36,666
up in my bones

464
01:08:36,666 --> 01:08:37,708
every time I try to

465
01:08:37,708 --> 01:08:38,500
suppress it. It

466
01:08:38,500 --> 01:08:38,958
comes out

467
01:08:38,958 --> 01:08:39,583
like a fire.

468
01:08:39,833 --> 01:08:40,875
And I think

469
01:08:40,875 --> 01:08:42,291
about... There's

470
01:08:42,291 --> 01:08:43,583
this curious story

471
01:08:44,416 --> 01:08:46,000
about how David

472
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:48,083
was... One book of

473
01:08:48,083 --> 01:08:48,958
the Bible says

474
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:50,750
he was... God

475
01:08:53,000 --> 01:08:55,208
enticed him to take

476
01:08:55,208 --> 01:08:56,083
a census, and then

477
01:08:56,125 --> 01:08:57,041
God later punished

478
01:08:57,041 --> 01:08:57,416
Israel for

479
01:08:57,416 --> 01:08:58,083
taking a census

480
01:08:58,083 --> 01:08:59,625
and then... But

481
01:08:59,625 --> 01:09:00,250
then another book

482
01:09:00,250 --> 01:09:00,875
was uncomfortable

483
01:09:00,875 --> 01:09:01,500
with that. And so

484
01:09:01,500 --> 01:09:02,208
the book says,

485
01:09:02,458 --> 01:09:04,041
Satan, ha-satan,

486
01:09:05,125 --> 01:09:07,125
enticed him. Does

487
01:09:07,125 --> 01:09:08,083
God actually

488
01:09:08,958 --> 01:09:11,291
provide us...

489
01:09:12,166 --> 01:09:12,666
Provide the

490
01:09:12,666 --> 01:09:13,333
temptation, not

491
01:09:13,333 --> 01:09:14,708
just simply fail to

492
01:09:14,708 --> 01:09:15,250
protect us?

493
01:09:15,250 --> 01:09:16,291
So I can

494
01:09:16,750 --> 01:09:17,541
jump in here.

495
01:09:17,541 --> 01:09:18,250
Okay. I

496
01:09:18,250 --> 01:09:18,708
thought you could.

497
01:09:20,083 --> 01:09:21,458
Judaism does not

498
01:09:21,458 --> 01:09:23,000
have a notion of a

499
01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:23,875
devil, of a

500
01:09:23,875 --> 01:09:25,208
tempter. We use the

501
01:09:25,208 --> 01:09:26,958
word satan,

502
01:09:28,041 --> 01:09:30,125
but it's used as a

503
01:09:30,250 --> 01:09:31,625
lowercase s,

504
01:09:32,166 --> 01:09:35,083
tempter. There was

505
01:09:35,083 --> 01:09:36,750
an army that God

506
01:09:37,500 --> 01:09:38,583
brought up to

507
01:09:38,583 --> 01:09:39,958
satan against

508
01:09:39,958 --> 01:09:42,041
David. Now, to

509
01:09:42,083 --> 01:09:44,541
oppose David, to be

510
01:09:44,541 --> 01:09:45,750
a foil to David, to

511
01:09:45,750 --> 01:09:47,333
be an adversary to

512
01:09:47,333 --> 01:09:48,125
David. But

513
01:09:48,125 --> 01:09:48,541
it doesn't

514
01:09:48,541 --> 01:09:50,416
mean red horned

515
01:09:51,041 --> 01:09:52,291
cape. Capital A

516
01:09:52,291 --> 01:09:53,625
adversary. I would

517
01:09:53,625 --> 01:09:54,458
argue that early

518
01:09:54,458 --> 01:09:55,000
Christianity didn't

519
01:09:55,000 --> 01:09:55,583
have that image at

520
01:09:55,583 --> 01:09:58,291
all. So Judaism,

521
01:09:58,333 --> 01:09:59,458
and this is... I

522
01:09:59,458 --> 01:10:00,125
can tell you by

523
01:10:00,125 --> 01:10:00,416
the year

524
01:10:00,416 --> 01:10:01,500
200, we have an

525
01:10:01,500 --> 01:10:03,000
idea that there's

526
01:10:03,375 --> 01:10:04,625
two parts to us,

527
01:10:04,958 --> 01:10:05,666
that there's the

528
01:10:05,708 --> 01:10:06,833
inclination to do

529
01:10:06,833 --> 01:10:07,250
good and

530
01:10:07,250 --> 01:10:07,541
there's the

531
01:10:07,541 --> 01:10:08,500
inclination to do

532
01:10:08,500 --> 01:10:09,750
bad. And it's much

533
01:10:09,750 --> 01:10:10,541
like the story of

534
01:10:10,541 --> 01:10:11,583
the two wolves that

535
01:10:11,583 --> 01:10:12,750
are within us and

536
01:10:13,208 --> 01:10:14,166
the grandchild

537
01:10:14,166 --> 01:10:14,500
asks the

538
01:10:14,500 --> 01:10:15,541
grandfather, "Does

539
01:10:15,541 --> 01:10:16,708
the wolf of evil or

540
01:10:16,708 --> 01:10:17,250
the wolf of

541
01:10:17,250 --> 01:10:17,833
goodness

542
01:10:17,916 --> 01:10:18,750
win?" And the

543
01:10:18,750 --> 01:10:19,333
grandfather's

544
01:10:19,333 --> 01:10:20,291
response is, "It

545
01:10:20,291 --> 01:10:21,125
depends which one

546
01:10:21,125 --> 01:10:21,750
you feed."

547
01:10:22,750 --> 01:10:23,708
It's very Jewish

548
01:10:23,708 --> 01:10:25,208
ideas that this

549
01:10:25,208 --> 01:10:27,208
yetzer hara, the

550
01:10:27,250 --> 01:10:28,541
temptation to do

551
01:10:28,791 --> 01:10:30,541
bad, is

552
01:10:30,541 --> 01:10:31,750
built into us.

553
01:10:32,041 --> 01:10:33,541
So to ask God to

554
01:10:33,541 --> 01:10:36,541
not lead us, we're

555
01:10:36,541 --> 01:10:37,500
the ones who have

556
01:10:37,500 --> 01:10:38,708
the autonomy to

557
01:10:38,708 --> 01:10:41,000
stop. It's not to

558
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:41,916
ask God to

559
01:10:41,916 --> 01:10:44,291
not do it. I have

560
01:10:44,291 --> 01:10:46,625
to... And there's a

561
01:10:47,583 --> 01:10:48,583
beautiful passage

562
01:10:48,583 --> 01:10:49,666
in the Mishnah

563
01:10:49,708 --> 01:10:50,166
which said,

564
01:10:50,416 --> 01:10:52,000
"Eizehu gibor,

565
01:10:52,625 --> 01:10:54,791
who is mighty?" And

566
01:10:54,791 --> 01:10:55,500
the answer is,

567
01:10:55,500 --> 01:10:57,125
"Whosoever can tame

568
01:10:57,208 --> 01:10:58,083
their spirit

569
01:10:58,083 --> 01:10:58,875
to do bad."

570
01:11:00,541 --> 01:11:01,541
So the definition

571
01:11:01,541 --> 01:11:03,333
of strength is that

572
01:11:03,333 --> 01:11:06,208
you follow the

573
01:11:06,208 --> 01:11:07,083
inclination to do

574
01:11:07,125 --> 01:11:07,625
good, you don't

575
01:11:07,625 --> 01:11:08,125
follow the

576
01:11:08,166 --> 01:11:08,916
inclination to do

577
01:11:08,916 --> 01:11:10,500
bad. I'm going to

578
01:11:10,500 --> 01:11:11,250
put all my cards

579
01:11:11,250 --> 01:11:11,916
down on the table

580
01:11:11,916 --> 01:11:13,000
and just continue

581
01:11:13,083 --> 01:11:13,458
if I may.

582
01:11:13,458 --> 01:11:14,375
Yeah, go for it.

583
01:11:15,083 --> 01:11:15,958
The Jewish

584
01:11:15,958 --> 01:11:16,833
tradition then

585
01:11:16,875 --> 01:11:18,000
continues and says,

586
01:11:18,541 --> 01:11:20,041
"If it were not for

587
01:11:20,041 --> 01:11:20,250
the

588
01:11:20,250 --> 01:11:21,916
inclination to do bad,

589
01:11:22,958 --> 01:11:23,708
no one would get

590
01:11:23,708 --> 01:11:24,791
married, no one

591
01:11:24,791 --> 01:11:25,708
would build a home,

592
01:11:25,750 --> 01:11:26,500
no one would have

593
01:11:26,500 --> 01:11:27,000
children,

594
01:11:27,041 --> 01:11:27,666
no one would

595
01:11:27,875 --> 01:11:30,000
be in business." If

596
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:30,916
it weren't for this

597
01:11:30,916 --> 01:11:32,458
inclination to

598
01:11:32,458 --> 01:11:35,250
do... "I want my

599
01:11:35,291 --> 01:11:36,541
genes to live on."

600
01:11:36,750 --> 01:11:37,958
That's an

601
01:11:38,333 --> 01:11:40,333
inclination. We

602
01:11:40,333 --> 01:11:41,250
wouldn't have that

603
01:11:41,250 --> 01:11:41,791
without the

604
01:11:41,791 --> 01:11:42,583
yetzer hara,

605
01:11:43,125 --> 01:11:43,750
without the

606
01:11:43,750 --> 01:11:45,000
inclination to do

607
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:46,291
evil, a little

608
01:11:46,291 --> 01:11:47,916
strong there, we

609
01:11:47,916 --> 01:11:48,333
wouldn't

610
01:11:48,583 --> 01:11:49,541
get married,

611
01:11:49,541 --> 01:11:50,250
we wouldn't build

612
01:11:50,250 --> 01:11:51,375
things. If it

613
01:11:51,375 --> 01:11:52,833
weren't for our

614
01:11:52,875 --> 01:11:53,291
idea of

615
01:11:53,291 --> 01:11:54,500
self-aggrandizement,

616
01:11:55,416 --> 01:11:55,750
nothing

617
01:11:55,833 --> 01:11:56,625
would get done.

618
01:11:57,125 --> 01:11:58,416
Yeah, the whole

619
01:11:58,416 --> 01:12:00,291
evil, good thing. I

620
01:12:00,291 --> 01:12:01,208
am so

621
01:12:01,208 --> 01:12:01,791
uncomfortable, I'm

622
01:12:01,791 --> 01:12:01,958
like

623
01:12:01,958 --> 01:12:03,333
shifting in my chair

624
01:12:03,416 --> 01:12:05,875
because it's so not

625
01:12:06,041 --> 01:12:07,416
Buddhism. This may

626
01:12:07,416 --> 01:12:07,833
be one of the

627
01:12:07,833 --> 01:12:10,708
places where the

628
01:12:10,708 --> 01:12:11,250
converging

629
01:12:11,250 --> 01:12:13,500
of the paths may be

630
01:12:13,500 --> 01:12:14,166
a little bit harder

631
01:12:14,166 --> 01:12:14,833
because it's like,

632
01:12:15,750 --> 01:12:17,000
"What do we mean by

633
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:18,250
evil? What are we

634
01:12:18,250 --> 01:12:19,500
talking about?" So

635
01:12:19,500 --> 01:12:21,666
classically, this

636
01:12:21,666 --> 01:12:22,500
is not something

637
01:12:22,500 --> 01:12:23,250
I'm saying that's

638
01:12:23,250 --> 01:12:24,333
at all novel, but

639
01:12:24,333 --> 01:12:25,291
in contemporary

640
01:12:25,291 --> 01:12:26,583
Buddhism, we often

641
01:12:26,583 --> 01:12:27,333
point out that

642
01:12:27,625 --> 01:12:28,625
there is no such

643
01:12:29,083 --> 01:12:31,375
real term for evil

644
01:12:31,750 --> 01:12:33,166
or good. It's more like

645
01:12:34,125 --> 01:12:35,458
skillful versus unskillful,

646
01:12:35,458 --> 01:12:36,416
wholesome versus

647
01:12:36,416 --> 01:12:38,916
unwholesome. That's

648
01:12:38,916 --> 01:12:40,000
really in terms of

649
01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:40,833
the fruits that are

650
01:12:40,833 --> 01:12:42,333
reaped by whatever

651
01:12:42,333 --> 01:12:45,916
the action is. Is

652
01:12:45,916 --> 01:12:48,208
what I've done a

653
01:12:48,208 --> 01:12:48,708
skillful

654
01:12:48,708 --> 01:12:49,791
thing to do?

655
01:12:50,875 --> 01:12:54,458
Certainly within

656
01:12:54,458 --> 01:12:55,666
Zen Buddhism, when

657
01:12:55,666 --> 01:12:56,583
we think about

658
01:12:56,583 --> 01:12:58,250
Mara, who is the

659
01:12:58,250 --> 01:12:58,750
tempter

660
01:12:58,750 --> 01:13:00,958
figure, the story of

661
01:13:01,583 --> 01:13:02,625
Shakyamuni Buddha,

662
01:13:02,625 --> 01:13:03,166
the historical

663
01:13:03,166 --> 01:13:04,000
Buddha, the guy who

664
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:05,291
2,500 years ago sat

665
01:13:05,291 --> 01:13:06,708
down under the

666
01:13:06,708 --> 01:13:07,250
Bodhi tree,

667
01:13:07,250 --> 01:13:07,833
under the tree of

668
01:13:07,833 --> 01:13:08,500
enlightenment and

669
01:13:08,500 --> 01:13:08,958
said, "I'm not

670
01:13:08,958 --> 01:13:09,583
getting up until I

671
01:13:09,583 --> 01:13:10,166
figure out this

672
01:13:10,166 --> 01:13:10,500
whole darn

673
01:13:10,541 --> 01:13:12,583
thing. Why is there

674
01:13:12,583 --> 01:13:13,708
suffering? Why

675
01:13:13,708 --> 01:13:15,208
aren't we all

676
01:13:15,208 --> 01:13:16,333
happy? I'm going to

677
01:13:16,333 --> 01:13:17,000
figure it out, and

678
01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:17,125
I'm going

679
01:13:17,125 --> 01:13:17,708
to figure it out by

680
01:13:17,708 --> 01:13:19,458
sitting still and

681
01:13:19,458 --> 01:13:20,291
not trying to

682
01:13:20,291 --> 01:13:21,541
manipulate, not

683
01:13:21,541 --> 01:13:22,833
trying to tilt the

684
01:13:22,833 --> 01:13:23,375
world so all

685
01:13:23,375 --> 01:13:24,583
the deliciousness

686
01:13:24,583 --> 01:13:25,750
flows toward me and

687
01:13:25,750 --> 01:13:26,416
all the yuckiness

688
01:13:26,416 --> 01:13:27,083
flows away. I'm

689
01:13:27,083 --> 01:13:27,333
just going

690
01:13:27,333 --> 01:13:27,875
to sit with

691
01:13:27,875 --> 01:13:30,000
it." The legend is

692
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:32,666
that Mara, the

693
01:13:32,666 --> 01:13:34,000
tempter in the

694
01:13:34,208 --> 01:13:35,041
Buddhist legends,

695
01:13:35,291 --> 01:13:36,208
comes to knock him

696
01:13:36,208 --> 01:13:37,083
off his seat.

697
01:13:40,375 --> 01:13:41,416
There's dancing

698
01:13:41,416 --> 01:13:42,250
girls, there's

699
01:13:42,250 --> 01:13:43,375
temptations of

700
01:13:43,375 --> 01:13:44,458
sensuous desire,

701
01:13:44,666 --> 01:13:45,750
there's attacks,

702
01:13:46,500 --> 01:13:47,208
and all those

703
01:13:47,208 --> 01:13:49,166
attacks fall short.

704
01:13:49,875 --> 01:13:51,041
Arrows get hurled

705
01:13:51,166 --> 01:13:52,208
toward the Buddha,

706
01:13:52,208 --> 01:13:52,791
and as they're

707
01:13:53,208 --> 01:13:54,041
flying toward

708
01:13:54,041 --> 01:13:54,708
the...he's

709
01:13:54,708 --> 01:13:55,333
not yet the Buddha,

710
01:13:55,333 --> 01:13:56,583
he's just this guy

711
01:13:56,583 --> 01:13:57,125
sitting under a

712
01:13:57,125 --> 01:13:57,791
tree. He hasn't

713
01:13:57,791 --> 01:13:58,291
awakened

714
01:13:58,291 --> 01:14:00,166
yet. The arrows

715
01:14:00,541 --> 01:14:01,500
turn to flowers and

716
01:14:01,500 --> 01:14:02,333
fall to the ground.

717
01:14:02,333 --> 01:14:03,250
The question is,

718
01:14:03,333 --> 01:14:03,916
"Well, what is

719
01:14:03,916 --> 01:14:05,125
Mara? Who is Mara?"

720
01:14:05,291 --> 01:14:05,583
From a

721
01:14:05,583 --> 01:14:06,250
Judeo-Christian

722
01:14:06,250 --> 01:14:06,833
perspective, it's

723
01:14:06,833 --> 01:14:07,500
like, "Well, that

724
01:14:07,500 --> 01:14:08,583
must be ha-satan."

725
01:14:09,166 --> 01:14:10,833
What could that be

726
01:14:10,833 --> 01:14:11,583
besides the

727
01:14:11,583 --> 01:14:13,041
adversary? But Mara

728
01:14:13,083 --> 01:14:14,958
is just really in

729
01:14:14,958 --> 01:14:17,250
Buddhist legend and

730
01:14:17,291 --> 01:14:18,125
cosmology.

731
01:14:18,875 --> 01:14:20,125
Mara is just

732
01:14:20,416 --> 01:14:22,083
practical. He's

733
01:14:22,083 --> 01:14:23,208
just the lord of

734
01:14:23,916 --> 01:14:25,625
how things work, of

735
01:14:25,625 --> 01:14:26,875
this for that. I'm

736
01:14:26,875 --> 01:14:27,208
going to do

737
01:14:27,208 --> 01:14:27,666
this because

738
01:14:27,666 --> 01:14:29,250
it'll...it's just

739
01:14:29,333 --> 01:14:30,916
expediency, the art

740
01:14:30,916 --> 01:14:31,583
of the possible.

741
01:14:31,666 --> 01:14:32,750
He's a politician.

742
01:14:34,291 --> 01:14:36,291
And so the kind of

743
01:14:36,291 --> 01:14:38,041
temptation is, "Are

744
01:14:38,041 --> 01:14:38,791
you going to try to

745
01:14:38,791 --> 01:14:39,416
leverage

746
01:14:39,416 --> 01:14:40,208
your position

747
01:14:40,750 --> 01:14:41,458
so that you come

748
01:14:41,458 --> 01:14:42,041
out ahead?"

749
01:14:43,125 --> 01:14:44,125
Temptation is

750
01:14:44,166 --> 01:14:45,166
ultimately about

751
01:14:46,208 --> 01:14:46,750
this

752
01:14:47,041 --> 01:14:48,625
delusion. I mean,

753
01:14:48,625 --> 01:14:49,083
from a Buddhist

754
01:14:49,083 --> 01:14:49,916
perspective, this

755
01:14:49,916 --> 01:14:53,000
delusion that I can

756
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:55,791
have what I want as

757
01:14:55,791 --> 01:14:56,166
if I'm

758
01:14:56,166 --> 01:14:56,791
separate from

759
01:14:56,791 --> 01:14:58,458
the world, that my

760
01:14:59,666 --> 01:15:00,666
getting a leg up

761
01:15:01,208 --> 01:15:02,708
doesn't matter,

762
01:15:02,708 --> 01:15:03,791
is even possible.

763
01:15:04,125 --> 01:15:05,208
And from a Buddhist

764
01:15:05,208 --> 01:15:06,416
perspective, it's

765
01:15:06,750 --> 01:15:07,458
not possible.

766
01:15:07,625 --> 01:15:08,250
You're getting a

767
01:15:08,250 --> 01:15:08,916
leg up on

768
01:15:08,916 --> 01:15:09,458
something, and

769
01:15:09,458 --> 01:15:09,666
that

770
01:15:09,666 --> 01:15:10,166
something that

771
01:15:10,541 --> 01:15:11,375
you're pushing against to

772
01:15:11,416 --> 01:15:11,958
give yourself

773
01:15:11,958 --> 01:15:12,750
leverage is

774
01:15:13,125 --> 01:15:13,750
ultimately going to

775
01:15:14,041 --> 01:15:14,541
bite you in

776
01:15:14,541 --> 01:15:15,125
the behind.

777
01:15:16,208 --> 01:15:19,000
Yeah. Regarding the

778
01:15:19,000 --> 01:15:19,666
convergence of

779
01:15:19,666 --> 01:15:21,375
these paths, too, I

780
01:15:21,416 --> 01:15:22,000
think it's helpful

781
01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:22,291
to note at

782
01:15:22,291 --> 01:15:22,666
this point

783
01:15:22,666 --> 01:15:23,333
that we have a new

784
01:15:23,333 --> 01:15:24,333
logo for the

785
01:15:24,375 --> 01:15:25,750
Converging Paths podcast.

786
01:15:26,083 --> 01:15:26,791
And if you see it,

787
01:15:26,791 --> 01:15:27,583
it's these

788
01:15:27,583 --> 01:15:28,291
three kind of

789
01:15:28,291 --> 01:15:30,500
colorful swashes,

790
01:15:31,125 --> 01:15:31,958
looks like maybe a

791
01:15:31,958 --> 01:15:33,666
Buddhist painting,

792
01:15:33,750 --> 01:15:34,458
part of it, like

793
01:15:34,583 --> 01:15:36,291
three, and they're

794
01:15:36,291 --> 01:15:37,125
not touching

795
01:15:38,083 --> 01:15:38,833
against a black

796
01:15:38,833 --> 01:15:39,708
background or a

797
01:15:39,750 --> 01:15:40,250
transparent

798
01:15:40,250 --> 01:15:41,208
background. But

799
01:15:41,208 --> 01:15:42,750
what you can make

800
01:15:42,750 --> 01:15:43,750
out in between

801
01:15:43,791 --> 01:15:45,083
those three swashes

802
01:15:45,125 --> 01:15:47,291
is a wild goose.

803
01:15:48,166 --> 01:15:49,375
And the idea behind

804
01:15:49,375 --> 01:15:50,125
that was that we're

805
01:15:50,125 --> 01:15:50,750
not trying to make

806
01:15:50,750 --> 01:15:51,250
an argument that

807
01:15:51,250 --> 01:15:52,125
we're all going to

808
01:15:52,125 --> 01:15:52,750
converge into a

809
01:15:52,750 --> 01:15:54,291
single agreement,

810
01:15:54,375 --> 01:15:55,541
a single space. But

811
01:15:55,541 --> 01:15:56,083
actually, if we

812
01:15:56,083 --> 01:15:57,041
represent ourselves

813
01:15:57,041 --> 01:15:57,791
and our integrity

814
01:15:58,083 --> 01:15:58,833
and our faith,

815
01:15:59,416 --> 01:15:59,750
it's the

816
01:15:59,750 --> 01:16:00,958
in-between. That's

817
01:16:00,958 --> 01:16:01,625
where we actually

818
01:16:01,625 --> 01:16:02,333
find this

819
01:16:02,375 --> 01:16:04,250
interesting piece.

820
01:16:04,250 --> 01:16:05,416
And so, I mean,

821
01:16:05,416 --> 01:16:06,250
I can feel us

822
01:16:06,333 --> 01:16:07,291
disagreeing from

823
01:16:07,291 --> 01:16:08,291
certain roots, but

824
01:16:08,333 --> 01:16:09,250
then when I start,

825
01:16:09,333 --> 01:16:09,958
I'm sensing

826
01:16:09,958 --> 01:16:11,166
that common

827
01:16:11,166 --> 01:16:13,208
ground in between.

828
01:16:13,291 --> 01:16:14,416
And I haven't

829
01:16:14,500 --> 01:16:15,041
articulated my

830
01:16:15,041 --> 01:16:16,416
own belief in that,

831
01:16:16,500 --> 01:16:17,333
I mean, if you're

832
01:16:17,333 --> 01:16:17,791
going to get

833
01:16:17,791 --> 01:16:18,750
to the like, who is

834
01:16:18,750 --> 01:16:19,958
Satan, for

835
01:16:19,958 --> 01:16:22,375
instance, I really

836
01:16:22,375 --> 01:16:23,250
reacted strongly

837
01:16:23,250 --> 01:16:24,708
most of my, or much

838
01:16:24,708 --> 01:16:25,416
of my life

839
01:16:25,458 --> 01:16:26,500
to the notion of

840
01:16:26,500 --> 01:16:27,333
Satan. It doesn't

841
01:16:27,333 --> 01:16:28,041
make sense to me

842
01:16:28,208 --> 01:16:29,833
until one day

843
01:16:29,833 --> 01:16:30,750
somebody reminded

844
01:16:30,750 --> 01:16:31,958
me, a very wise

845
01:16:31,958 --> 01:16:32,416
person. I was kind of

846
01:16:32,416 --> 01:16:32,875
ranting about

847
01:16:32,875 --> 01:16:33,458
people who believe

848
01:16:33,458 --> 01:16:34,833
in Satan and all

849
01:16:34,833 --> 01:16:35,833
this and said, "You

850
01:16:35,833 --> 01:16:36,250
know, well,

851
01:16:36,333 --> 01:16:37,416
Jesus seems to have

852
01:16:37,458 --> 01:16:38,250
believed in Satan."

853
01:16:39,416 --> 01:16:41,041
Well, that's true.

854
01:16:41,250 --> 01:16:43,000
And I don't know

855
01:16:43,000 --> 01:16:43,708
that I would call

856
01:16:43,708 --> 01:16:44,666
myself any wiser

857
01:16:44,666 --> 01:16:46,625
than Jesus. And so

858
01:16:46,625 --> 01:16:47,250
then I started to

859
01:16:47,250 --> 01:16:47,708
give it a little

860
01:16:47,708 --> 01:16:50,041
chance. And I will

861
01:16:50,041 --> 01:16:50,541
be the first

862
01:16:50,541 --> 01:16:51,458
to say, you should

863
01:16:51,458 --> 01:16:52,791
never like just

864
01:16:52,791 --> 01:16:53,791
attribute Satan,

865
01:16:53,791 --> 01:16:54,250
you know, some

866
01:16:54,250 --> 01:16:55,250
outside power to

867
01:16:55,291 --> 01:16:55,833
whatever you're

868
01:16:55,833 --> 01:16:56,458
doing or whatever

869
01:16:56,458 --> 01:16:57,041
somebody else is

870
01:16:57,041 --> 01:16:58,125
doing, almost, the

871
01:16:58,125 --> 01:16:58,958
devil made me do

872
01:16:58,958 --> 01:17:00,416
it. But I did

873
01:17:00,416 --> 01:17:01,166
notice that

874
01:17:01,500 --> 01:17:02,166
it seems like

875
01:17:02,166 --> 01:17:03,000
whenever we make an

876
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:04,000
aggressive action

877
01:17:04,000 --> 01:17:05,583
for the good in

878
01:17:05,583 --> 01:17:06,250
this world,

879
01:17:06,833 --> 01:17:07,458
whatever its

880
01:17:07,458 --> 01:17:08,083
cause, it's

881
01:17:08,166 --> 01:17:09,500
automatic. There is

882
01:17:09,500 --> 01:17:10,916
some opposite

883
01:17:10,916 --> 01:17:12,125
reaction to it. You

884
01:17:12,125 --> 01:17:12,541
could call it

885
01:17:12,541 --> 01:17:13,125
Satan, you can

886
01:17:13,125 --> 01:17:13,916
call it, I call it

887
01:17:13,916 --> 01:17:15,083
dark matter, just

888
01:17:15,250 --> 01:17:16,208
like it accumulates

889
01:17:16,208 --> 01:17:16,958
to any good action

890
01:17:16,958 --> 01:17:17,625
we do just to keep

891
01:17:17,625 --> 01:17:18,458
it neutral. Like,

892
01:17:18,791 --> 01:17:19,291
cause I still, you

893
01:17:19,291 --> 01:17:19,750
know, the jury's

894
01:17:19,750 --> 01:17:20,500
still out about how

895
01:17:20,500 --> 01:17:22,000
Satan works for me,

896
01:17:22,250 --> 01:17:23,083
but it is just a

897
01:17:23,083 --> 01:17:23,750
rock solid

898
01:17:23,750 --> 01:17:24,625
principle. So now I

899
01:17:24,625 --> 01:17:25,458
actually plan for

900
01:17:25,458 --> 01:17:26,708
it. Like if I or my

901
01:17:26,708 --> 01:17:27,125
church is

902
01:17:27,125 --> 01:17:27,416
going to do

903
01:17:27,416 --> 01:17:28,208
something like in

904
01:17:28,208 --> 01:17:28,958
Omaha, we're going

905
01:17:28,958 --> 01:17:29,666
to, we're going to

906
01:17:29,666 --> 01:17:31,041
be the Tri-, the

907
01:17:31,041 --> 01:17:31,333
church of the

908
01:17:31,333 --> 01:17:32,208
Tri-Faith and bring

909
01:17:32,208 --> 01:17:33,041
all three faiths to

910
01:17:33,125 --> 01:17:33,791
be part of bringing

911
01:17:33,791 --> 01:17:34,375
all three faiths

912
01:17:34,375 --> 01:17:35,250
together on a 38-acre

913
01:17:35,250 --> 01:17:36,125
commons. That is an

914
01:17:36,125 --> 01:17:36,958
extremely

915
01:17:37,166 --> 01:17:38,166
aggressive action

916
01:17:38,166 --> 01:17:39,958
for the good. And

917
01:17:40,041 --> 01:17:41,166
we just had to plan

918
01:17:41,250 --> 01:17:42,833
before we began

919
01:17:43,000 --> 01:17:43,958
the conversation,

920
01:17:44,791 --> 01:17:45,541
stuff's going to

921
01:17:45,541 --> 01:17:47,666
happen. And sure

922
01:17:47,666 --> 01:17:48,250
enough, stuff

923
01:17:48,250 --> 01:17:48,583
happened,

924
01:17:48,625 --> 01:17:49,375
you know, and

925
01:17:49,791 --> 01:17:51,250
so you call it

926
01:17:51,250 --> 01:17:52,083
Satan, call it dark

927
01:17:52,083 --> 01:17:52,750
matter, call it

928
01:17:52,875 --> 01:17:54,916
the, the, I don't

929
01:17:54,916 --> 01:17:56,791
know, the shadow,

930
01:17:56,791 --> 01:17:58,541
you know, it seems

931
01:17:58,541 --> 01:17:59,208
like we all agree

932
01:17:59,208 --> 01:18:00,000
there's shadow. It

933
01:18:00,000 --> 01:18:00,708
just, what's,

934
01:18:01,250 --> 01:18:01,625
what's at the

935
01:18:01,625 --> 01:18:02,458
basis of it?

936
01:18:03,000 --> 01:18:05,000
For me, it's, it

937
01:18:05,000 --> 01:18:05,833
comes back to like

938
01:18:06,083 --> 01:18:06,750
the cause of

939
01:18:06,750 --> 01:18:08,375
suffering, which is

940
01:18:08,375 --> 01:18:09,500
this effort to

941
01:18:09,500 --> 01:18:10,833
leverage off

942
01:18:10,875 --> 01:18:13,041
against the world

943
01:18:13,958 --> 01:18:14,666
and to say, I'm

944
01:18:14,666 --> 01:18:15,625
going to do this.

945
01:18:15,625 --> 01:18:16,500
So to do this, I

946
01:18:16,500 --> 01:18:16,750
got to

947
01:18:16,750 --> 01:18:17,791
push on that.

948
01:18:17,958 --> 01:18:18,791
This is karma. I

949
01:18:18,791 --> 01:18:19,416
mean, this is like

950
01:18:19,416 --> 01:18:20,041
the definition of

951
01:18:20,041 --> 01:18:21,416
karma, you know,

952
01:18:21,458 --> 01:18:22,041
like, so

953
01:18:22,041 --> 01:18:23,125
for me, the,

954
01:18:23,125 --> 01:18:24,166
the thing that I

955
01:18:24,166 --> 01:18:25,500
said yes to most

956
01:18:25,500 --> 01:18:26,250
recently, that was

957
01:18:26,250 --> 01:18:27,000
the biggest yes of

958
01:18:27,000 --> 01:18:28,083
my life was the

959
01:18:28,083 --> 01:18:28,666
ridiculous

960
01:18:28,666 --> 01:18:29,583
yes of I will walk

961
01:18:29,583 --> 01:18:30,416
across America,

962
01:18:30,416 --> 01:18:31,416
which I did last

963
01:18:31,416 --> 01:18:32,208
year. Right. And,

964
01:18:33,416 --> 01:18:33,791
and I was

965
01:18:33,791 --> 01:18:34,208
trying to think,

966
01:18:34,208 --> 01:18:34,750
you know, is this a

967
01:18:34,750 --> 01:18:35,833
protest march? Is

968
01:18:35,833 --> 01:18:37,291
it a march of like,

969
01:18:37,458 --> 01:18:38,250
what is it even a

970
01:18:38,250 --> 01:18:38,666
march? And

971
01:18:38,666 --> 01:18:38,833
I was like,

972
01:18:38,833 --> 01:18:39,125
Oh, it's a

973
01:18:39,125 --> 01:18:41,166
pilgrimage and I'm

974
01:18:41,166 --> 01:18:41,833
going to try to

975
01:18:41,833 --> 01:18:44,458
walk in a stance

976
01:18:44,458 --> 01:18:45,875
of, of this is a

977
01:18:45,875 --> 01:18:46,041
very

978
01:18:46,041 --> 01:18:46,500
Buddhist way to

979
01:18:46,500 --> 01:18:47,125
put it, of neither

980
01:18:47,125 --> 01:18:48,750
for nor against,

981
01:18:48,750 --> 01:18:49,250
like I'm not

982
01:18:49,250 --> 01:18:50,041
walking for

983
01:18:50,041 --> 01:18:50,583
something. I'm not

984
01:18:50,583 --> 01:18:51,500
walking against

985
01:18:51,500 --> 01:18:52,083
something. That doesn't mean I'm

986
01:18:52,083 --> 01:18:53,875
neutral. I'm just

987
01:18:53,875 --> 01:18:54,583
me. I'm full of

988
01:18:54,583 --> 01:18:56,125
opinions, but the

989
01:18:56,125 --> 01:18:56,833
opinions aren't

990
01:18:56,833 --> 01:18:57,250
something that

991
01:18:57,250 --> 01:18:57,708
I'm going to like

992
01:18:57,750 --> 01:18:59,500
leverage to achieve

993
01:18:59,500 --> 01:19:01,125
something. Cause I

994
01:19:01,125 --> 01:19:02,333
think that that

995
01:19:02,333 --> 01:19:04,333
pushing to do good,

996
01:19:04,333 --> 01:19:07,000
it does inevitably

997
01:19:07,000 --> 01:19:07,833
produce a shadow

998
01:19:07,833 --> 01:19:08,791
because I'm, I am

999
01:19:08,833 --> 01:19:09,750
by definition

1000
01:19:09,750 --> 01:19:10,500
pushing against

1001
01:19:10,500 --> 01:19:11,208
something

1002
01:19:11,750 --> 01:19:12,500
that I've now

1003
01:19:12,541 --> 01:19:13,375
rendered as the

1004
01:19:13,375 --> 01:19:13,833
other, the

1005
01:19:13,833 --> 01:19:14,708
undesirable, the

1006
01:19:14,708 --> 01:19:15,250
thing that I'm

1007
01:19:15,250 --> 01:19:16,000
rejecting.

1008
01:19:16,625 --> 01:19:19,666
And that yeah, that

1009
01:19:19,666 --> 01:19:22,166
is where that's so

1010
01:19:22,208 --> 01:19:24,666
we want to, I mean,

1011
01:19:24,666 --> 01:19:25,208
if we want to

1012
01:19:25,208 --> 01:19:25,625
wonder

1013
01:19:25,625 --> 01:19:26,833
about a universe

1014
01:19:26,833 --> 01:19:27,750
that might lead us

1015
01:19:27,750 --> 01:19:28,916
into temptation,

1016
01:19:29,208 --> 01:19:29,875
it's like a

1017
01:19:29,875 --> 01:19:30,916
universe that keeps

1018
01:19:30,916 --> 01:19:32,333
tempting me is

1019
01:19:32,333 --> 01:19:32,916
going to tempt

1020
01:19:32,916 --> 01:19:35,041
me to try to make

1021
01:19:35,041 --> 01:19:37,208
things better. I

1022
01:19:37,208 --> 01:19:38,041
want the universe

1023
01:19:38,041 --> 01:19:38,875
to invite me to do

1024
01:19:38,875 --> 01:19:41,833
that. But the idea

1025
01:19:41,875 --> 01:19:42,791
of doing things

1026
01:19:42,791 --> 01:19:44,333
better without also

1027
01:19:44,500 --> 01:19:46,208
creating harm is

1028
01:19:46,208 --> 01:19:46,958
like the idea that

1029
01:19:46,958 --> 01:19:47,875
I can foster

1030
01:19:47,875 --> 01:19:48,666
life without

1031
01:19:49,416 --> 01:19:50,375
trying to consume

1032
01:19:50,375 --> 01:19:51,416
life. Even if I'm

1033
01:19:51,416 --> 01:19:52,000
like the most

1034
01:19:52,000 --> 01:19:52,916
vegan, vegan

1035
01:19:52,916 --> 01:19:53,500
in the world,

1036
01:19:54,916 --> 01:19:56,375
life consumes life.

1037
01:19:56,791 --> 01:19:57,458
Good is going to

1038
01:19:57,458 --> 01:19:58,583
produce its shadow.

1039
01:19:58,791 --> 01:20:01,583
Yes. Right. So

1040
01:20:01,583 --> 01:20:02,708
maybe we can talk

1041
01:20:02,708 --> 01:20:03,208
later about how we

1042
01:20:03,208 --> 01:20:03,750
mitigate

1043
01:20:03,833 --> 01:20:04,583
that. But I'm,

1044
01:20:06,250 --> 01:20:07,083
it is interesting

1045
01:20:07,083 --> 01:20:07,916
that the prayer, it

1046
01:20:07,916 --> 01:20:08,500
says, you know,

1047
01:20:08,583 --> 01:20:09,250
lead us not into

1048
01:20:09,250 --> 01:20:10,208
temptation, but

1049
01:20:10,208 --> 01:20:11,166
deliver us from

1050
01:20:11,791 --> 01:20:12,625
evil. The word

1051
01:20:12,625 --> 01:20:13,208
there could be,

1052
01:20:13,500 --> 01:20:14,125
could be just

1053
01:20:14,125 --> 01:20:15,791
simply evil or the

1054
01:20:15,791 --> 01:20:16,625
evil one, either

1055
01:20:16,625 --> 01:20:17,375
one. So there,

1056
01:20:18,250 --> 01:20:18,708
you know, kind of,

1057
01:20:18,750 --> 01:20:19,416
oh, interesting.

1058
01:20:19,416 --> 01:20:20,250
Yeah. So one would

1059
01:20:20,250 --> 01:20:22,166
imply an outside

1060
01:20:22,500 --> 01:20:23,583
force. The

1061
01:20:23,583 --> 01:20:24,041
other is just

1062
01:20:24,041 --> 01:20:25,416
simply the idea of

1063
01:20:25,416 --> 01:20:26,333
like shadow. And is

1064
01:20:26,333 --> 01:20:27,291
it, is it, I'm

1065
01:20:27,291 --> 01:20:28,375
like, evil has such

1066
01:20:28,375 --> 01:20:28,916
a like

1067
01:20:28,916 --> 01:20:30,208
metaphysical ring

1068
01:20:30,250 --> 01:20:30,916
in English. Does it

1069
01:20:30,916 --> 01:20:31,625
have that? Or is it

1070
01:20:31,625 --> 01:20:32,833
just like bad? Is

1071
01:20:32,833 --> 01:20:33,875
it like yucky? I

1072
01:20:33,875 --> 01:20:34,291
mean, is

1073
01:20:34,375 --> 01:20:35,166
evil in that

1074
01:20:35,416 --> 01:20:36,291
sense of evil

1075
01:20:36,291 --> 01:20:37,916
really? Well, if you're talking

1076
01:20:37,916 --> 01:20:38,916
about the evil one,

1077
01:20:38,916 --> 01:20:39,250
there probably

1078
01:20:39,250 --> 01:20:40,083
would be that

1079
01:20:40,083 --> 01:20:40,833
metaphysical one. But I

1080
01:20:40,833 --> 01:20:41,708
do think that when,

1081
01:20:41,875 --> 01:20:42,666
when push comes to

1082
01:20:42,666 --> 01:20:43,250
shove throughout

1083
01:20:43,500 --> 01:20:44,125
the, the Hebrew

1084
01:20:44,125 --> 01:20:45,083
scriptures and the

1085
01:20:45,083 --> 01:20:45,875
Christian ones,

1086
01:20:46,416 --> 01:20:47,166
ultimately it's

1087
01:20:47,166 --> 01:20:48,333
like, is this life

1088
01:20:48,333 --> 01:20:49,333
bearing or

1089
01:20:49,333 --> 01:20:50,000
is it not?

1090
01:20:50,458 --> 01:20:51,333
Or is it, or is it

1091
01:20:51,333 --> 01:20:52,750
redolent of love or

1092
01:20:52,750 --> 01:20:54,291
is it not? You

1093
01:20:54,291 --> 01:20:55,916
know, you bring up,

1094
01:20:56,000 --> 01:20:56,583
you know, the

1095
01:20:56,583 --> 01:20:57,500
Holocaust or

1096
01:20:57,500 --> 01:20:57,958
something like

1097
01:20:57,958 --> 01:20:58,916
this, like, well,

1098
01:20:58,958 --> 01:20:59,916
that's about as

1099
01:21:00,625 --> 01:21:01,500
stark an example as

1100
01:21:01,500 --> 01:21:02,250
you can of just

1101
01:21:02,375 --> 01:21:03,416
absolute evil

1102
01:21:03,875 --> 01:21:06,333
and, and non-life

1103
01:21:06,333 --> 01:21:06,666
bearing,

1104
01:21:06,666 --> 01:21:09,000
non-loving. And,

1105
01:21:09,166 --> 01:21:09,875
you know, so it

1106
01:21:09,875 --> 01:21:10,333
does raise the

1107
01:21:10,333 --> 01:21:10,666
question,

1108
01:21:10,666 --> 01:21:11,250
like, what kind of

1109
01:21:11,250 --> 01:21:12,333
forces lead to

1110
01:21:12,333 --> 01:21:14,208
that? I'm not, you

1111
01:21:14,208 --> 01:21:15,125
know, that could be

1112
01:21:15,125 --> 01:21:15,333
that

1113
01:21:15,333 --> 01:21:16,125
there's a satanic

1114
01:21:16,125 --> 01:21:16,791
force that just

1115
01:21:16,833 --> 01:21:17,708
tempts people or

1116
01:21:17,708 --> 01:21:18,666
could be also what

1117
01:21:18,666 --> 01:21:19,375
we've found in

1118
01:21:19,375 --> 01:21:20,166
modern times with

1119
01:21:20,375 --> 01:21:20,750
like, for

1120
01:21:20,750 --> 01:21:21,416
instance, social

1121
01:21:21,416 --> 01:21:22,583
media algorithms. I

1122
01:21:22,583 --> 01:21:23,375
mean, we're much

1123
01:21:23,375 --> 01:21:24,125
more sophisticated

1124
01:21:24,125 --> 01:21:24,500
about now,

1125
01:21:24,541 --> 01:21:24,875
but a whole

1126
01:21:24,875 --> 01:21:26,416
culture can build a

1127
01:21:26,416 --> 01:21:27,500
power that has

1128
01:21:27,500 --> 01:21:28,208
nothing to do with

1129
01:21:28,375 --> 01:21:29,500
supernatural. Just

1130
01:21:29,666 --> 01:21:30,500
a culture can

1131
01:21:30,500 --> 01:21:31,375
build a power

1132
01:21:31,625 --> 01:21:32,333
that ends up

1133
01:21:32,666 --> 01:21:33,791
overpowering the

1134
01:21:33,791 --> 01:21:35,583
sensibilities of

1135
01:21:35,750 --> 01:21:37,166
its citizens or

1136
01:21:37,166 --> 01:21:37,375
even

1137
01:21:37,375 --> 01:21:38,583
corporations. We know

1138
01:21:38,583 --> 01:21:39,250
corporations can

1139
01:21:39,250 --> 01:21:39,875
build a corporate

1140
01:21:39,875 --> 01:21:41,458
culture of greed

1141
01:21:41,458 --> 01:21:42,458
and, and so forth

1142
01:21:42,458 --> 01:21:43,291
that where it just

1143
01:21:43,291 --> 01:21:44,166
overwhelms the

1144
01:21:44,166 --> 01:21:45,125
senses there's not,

1145
01:21:45,208 --> 01:21:46,041
and it just kind of

1146
01:21:46,041 --> 01:21:47,250
has a force in and

1147
01:21:47,250 --> 01:21:47,625
of itself

1148
01:21:47,625 --> 01:21:48,541
that might

1149
01:21:48,541 --> 01:21:49,458
feel to some like

1150
01:21:49,458 --> 01:21:50,125
it's an outside

1151
01:21:50,125 --> 01:21:50,791
force, but is

1152
01:21:50,791 --> 01:21:51,708
actually this

1153
01:21:51,916 --> 01:21:53,041
cultural force.

1154
01:21:54,333 --> 01:21:55,958
So flag on the play

1155
01:21:55,958 --> 01:21:58,125
here. If we pray to

1156
01:21:58,125 --> 01:22:00,541
God, lead us not

1157
01:22:00,541 --> 01:22:01,541
into temptation,

1158
01:22:02,375 --> 01:22:03,708
and we are led into

1159
01:22:03,708 --> 01:22:06,000
temptation, that's

1160
01:22:06,000 --> 01:22:07,125
because God led us

1161
01:22:07,125 --> 01:22:08,250
there. It's because

1162
01:22:08,250 --> 01:22:09,125
God didn't put up

1163
01:22:09,125 --> 01:22:10,125
the stop sign.

1164
01:22:10,833 --> 01:22:11,583
Well, there, there.

1165
01:22:11,583 --> 01:22:11,916
What are we

1166
01:22:11,916 --> 01:22:12,500
saying here?

1167
01:22:12,708 --> 01:22:13,500
That's exactly the

1168
01:22:13,500 --> 01:22:14,458
rub that I was,

1169
01:22:15,250 --> 01:22:15,750
people have

1170
01:22:15,875 --> 01:22:16,875
throughout the ages

1171
01:22:16,916 --> 01:22:17,875
that said, what,

1172
01:22:18,083 --> 01:22:20,000
wait a minute. And

1173
01:22:20,000 --> 01:22:20,625
I will say that

1174
01:22:20,625 --> 01:22:22,583
also as late as, as

1175
01:22:22,625 --> 01:22:24,000
recently as 2019

1176
01:22:25,000 --> 01:22:26,375
Pope Francis,

1177
01:22:27,166 --> 01:22:28,250
when he was the

1178
01:22:28,250 --> 01:22:30,291
Pope, responded to

1179
01:22:30,291 --> 01:22:32,000
a bunch of Italian

1180
01:22:32,000 --> 01:22:32,416
bishops who

1181
01:22:32,416 --> 01:22:33,500
proposed a change

1182
01:22:33,500 --> 01:22:34,291
of the prayer,

1183
01:22:34,333 --> 01:22:34,875
the wording of the

1184
01:22:34,875 --> 01:22:36,166
prayer. And in

1185
01:22:36,166 --> 01:22:37,458
Italian, if you

1186
01:22:37,458 --> 01:22:37,958
translate the

1187
01:22:37,958 --> 01:22:38,916
Italian now that he

1188
01:22:39,166 --> 01:22:40,041
confirmed the

1189
01:22:40,083 --> 01:22:41,750
translation is, "Do

1190
01:22:41,750 --> 01:22:43,583
not abandon us to

1191
01:22:43,583 --> 01:22:44,708
temptation," not "Do

1192
01:22:44,708 --> 01:22:45,166
not lead

1193
01:22:45,166 --> 01:22:45,583
us," because—

1194
01:22:46,416 --> 01:22:47,083
I like that better.

1195
01:22:47,208 --> 01:22:47,833
Yeah. And that

1196
01:22:47,833 --> 01:22:48,375
doesn't, that

1197
01:22:48,375 --> 01:22:50,166
doesn't cohere so

1198
01:22:50,416 --> 01:22:51,125
strongly to the

1199
01:22:51,125 --> 01:22:52,458
Greek. It's more of

1200
01:22:52,458 --> 01:22:53,375
a theological,

1201
01:22:53,708 --> 01:22:54,250
they did it for

1202
01:22:54,250 --> 01:22:54,875
theological

1203
01:22:54,875 --> 01:22:55,541
reasons. And it's

1204
01:22:55,541 --> 01:22:56,833
like, yeah, Pope

1205
01:22:56,833 --> 01:22:57,291
Francis said,

1206
01:22:57,333 --> 01:22:58,166
God is like a

1207
01:22:58,333 --> 01:22:59,083
perfect parent, a

1208
01:22:59,083 --> 01:22:59,916
loving parent, no

1209
01:22:59,916 --> 01:23:00,750
loving parent, like

1210
01:23:00,750 --> 01:23:02,375
leads their kids to

1211
01:23:02,375 --> 01:23:03,000
temptation.

1212
01:23:03,041 --> 01:23:03,791
So I want to think

1213
01:23:03,791 --> 01:23:04,250
about this in

1214
01:23:04,250 --> 01:23:05,375
mythological terms

1215
01:23:05,375 --> 01:23:06,333
though, it strikes

1216
01:23:06,333 --> 01:23:07,125
me because

1217
01:23:07,125 --> 01:23:07,833
there's so

1218
01:23:07,875 --> 01:23:08,750
many similarities

1219
01:23:09,041 --> 01:23:10,000
between Jesus being

1220
01:23:10,000 --> 01:23:11,000
tempted by Satan

1221
01:23:11,375 --> 01:23:12,708
and, you know, and

1222
01:23:12,708 --> 01:23:12,958
I'm sure

1223
01:23:12,958 --> 01:23:13,791
this is true in

1224
01:23:13,958 --> 01:23:14,375
religious

1225
01:23:14,375 --> 01:23:15,208
traditions where,

1226
01:23:15,541 --> 01:23:16,125
and the Buddha

1227
01:23:16,125 --> 01:23:16,916
being tempted by

1228
01:23:16,916 --> 01:23:18,791
Mara, like there is

1229
01:23:18,791 --> 01:23:19,375
something being

1230
01:23:19,375 --> 01:23:20,666
told us in these

1231
01:23:20,666 --> 01:23:21,791
stories about the

1232
01:23:21,791 --> 01:23:23,166
necessity for what

1233
01:23:23,166 --> 01:23:23,958
we consider

1234
01:23:24,375 --> 01:23:25,000
temptation

1235
01:23:25,000 --> 01:23:26,000
befalling us,

1236
01:23:27,041 --> 01:23:27,875
being like, there's

1237
01:23:27,875 --> 01:23:28,666
something there

1238
01:23:28,666 --> 01:23:30,250
that has to happen

1239
01:23:30,500 --> 01:23:30,958
for the

1240
01:23:30,958 --> 01:23:32,000
soul, I think.

1241
01:23:32,208 --> 01:23:33,500
And I, I, I know

1242
01:23:33,500 --> 01:23:34,541
our Muslim friends

1243
01:23:34,541 --> 01:23:35,000
would, would

1244
01:23:35,000 --> 01:23:35,541
confirm that too,

1245
01:23:35,541 --> 01:23:36,166
that they talked a

1246
01:23:36,166 --> 01:23:36,583
lot about

1247
01:23:37,125 --> 01:23:38,083
Allah testing,

1248
01:23:38,375 --> 01:23:38,833
really under

1249
01:23:38,833 --> 01:23:39,541
testing. It's not

1250
01:23:39,541 --> 01:23:40,291
like a malicious,

1251
01:23:40,291 --> 01:23:40,958
like I want

1252
01:23:40,958 --> 01:23:41,416
you to do evil,

1253
01:23:41,750 --> 01:23:42,500
but you need to be

1254
01:23:42,500 --> 01:23:43,583
tested by, can you

1255
01:23:43,583 --> 01:23:44,125
discern the

1256
01:23:44,125 --> 01:23:44,666
difference?

1257
01:23:44,916 --> 01:23:46,166
All the testing

1258
01:23:46,166 --> 01:23:47,250
that happens in the

1259
01:23:47,250 --> 01:23:48,000
Hebrew scriptures.

1260
01:23:48,000 --> 01:23:48,958
I mean, it's, it

1261
01:23:48,958 --> 01:23:50,416
seems like that is

1262
01:23:50,750 --> 01:23:52,708
essential for, for

1263
01:23:52,708 --> 01:23:54,041
us to learn what it

1264
01:23:54,041 --> 01:23:55,166
is to come into

1265
01:23:55,166 --> 01:23:56,083
alignment. No?

1266
01:23:56,166 --> 01:23:57,000
I want to add in

1267
01:23:57,041 --> 01:23:57,875
there's Hebrew

1268
01:23:58,208 --> 01:23:59,416
prayer, a very

1269
01:23:59,458 --> 01:24:00,375
familiar Hebrew

1270
01:24:00,375 --> 01:24:00,833
prayer called

1271
01:24:00,833 --> 01:24:01,750
Hashkiveinu,

1272
01:24:01,958 --> 01:24:03,750
which asks God very

1273
01:24:03,750 --> 01:24:04,708
parallel to what

1274
01:24:04,708 --> 01:24:05,083
we're talking

1275
01:24:05,083 --> 01:24:06,750
about, asks God to

1276
01:24:08,125 --> 01:24:09,500
remove the danger

1277
01:24:09,500 --> 01:24:10,583
from us so we can

1278
01:24:10,583 --> 01:24:11,875
lay down in peace.

1279
01:24:13,708 --> 01:24:15,333
So that it's again,

1280
01:24:15,375 --> 01:24:16,750
ask imploring God

1281
01:24:16,750 --> 01:24:17,250
to do it,

1282
01:24:17,250 --> 01:24:18,041
that it's not,

1283
01:24:18,875 --> 01:24:19,750
not something I can

1284
01:24:19,750 --> 01:24:20,750
fully control. I

1285
01:24:20,750 --> 01:24:21,375
need God's

1286
01:24:21,375 --> 01:24:22,250
help on this.

1287
01:24:23,625 --> 01:24:25,500
Adding a rebuttal

1288
01:24:25,500 --> 01:24:26,125
to that from the

1289
01:24:26,125 --> 01:24:27,791
scriptures where I

1290
01:24:27,833 --> 01:24:28,458
believe it's in

1291
01:24:28,458 --> 01:24:29,750
Deuteronomy where

1292
01:24:29,791 --> 01:24:30,500
God says,

1293
01:24:30,916 --> 01:24:31,916
I set before you

1294
01:24:31,916 --> 01:24:33,041
life and death,

1295
01:24:33,875 --> 01:24:35,000
good and evil,

1296
01:24:35,541 --> 01:24:36,750
choose life so you

1297
01:24:36,750 --> 01:24:38,333
shall live. That

1298
01:24:38,333 --> 01:24:39,458
God, God's,

1299
01:24:40,250 --> 01:24:40,916
the character of

1300
01:24:40,916 --> 01:24:42,000
God in the Bible is

1301
01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:43,625
presenting the good

1302
01:24:43,625 --> 01:24:45,416
and the bad. And

1303
01:24:45,416 --> 01:24:46,708
that it's not for

1304
01:24:46,791 --> 01:24:48,083
deliver us from

1305
01:24:48,083 --> 01:24:49,958
evil, it's don't be

1306
01:24:49,958 --> 01:24:50,875
a schmuck, make the

1307
01:24:50,875 --> 01:24:52,375
right decision, do

1308
01:24:52,375 --> 01:24:53,083
the right thing.

1309
01:24:54,041 --> 01:24:54,791
That goes back to

1310
01:24:54,791 --> 01:24:55,708
maybe that testing

1311
01:24:55,708 --> 01:24:56,000
thing that

1312
01:24:56,000 --> 01:24:56,750
Esther was,

1313
01:24:57,625 --> 01:24:58,166
well, I mean,

1314
01:24:58,166 --> 01:24:59,250
that's the question

1315
01:24:59,250 --> 01:25:02,208
is, is being led

1316
01:25:02,208 --> 01:25:02,416
into

1317
01:25:02,416 --> 01:25:04,041
temptation a test?

1318
01:25:04,750 --> 01:25:05,291
I mean, is that

1319
01:25:05,333 --> 01:25:06,041
what it is to be

1320
01:25:06,041 --> 01:25:06,750
led into

1321
01:25:06,750 --> 01:25:07,875
temptation? Is that

1322
01:25:07,875 --> 01:25:08,666
about being

1323
01:25:08,666 --> 01:25:09,416
tested? And

1324
01:25:09,416 --> 01:25:11,791
then is the one

1325
01:25:11,791 --> 01:25:12,958
who's praying here

1326
01:25:13,166 --> 01:25:15,750
saying, hang on,

1327
01:25:15,958 --> 01:25:16,583
you know, is Jesus

1328
01:25:16,583 --> 01:25:17,458
saying to us like,

1329
01:25:18,125 --> 01:25:20,250
I mean, again,

1330
01:25:20,333 --> 01:25:21,083
Jesus is teaching

1331
01:25:21,083 --> 01:25:21,625
us how to pray

1332
01:25:21,625 --> 01:25:22,666
here. So is he

1333
01:25:22,666 --> 01:25:23,625
teaching us to

1334
01:25:24,166 --> 01:25:25,666
be a fraidy cat

1335
01:25:25,666 --> 01:25:26,000
that we're not

1336
01:25:26,000 --> 01:25:26,208
going to

1337
01:25:26,208 --> 01:25:27,041
pass the test?

1338
01:25:29,166 --> 01:25:30,041
Yeah, I kind of

1339
01:25:30,250 --> 01:25:31,875
doubt that. I think

1340
01:25:31,875 --> 01:25:32,833
that he, bottom

1341
01:25:32,833 --> 01:25:33,541
line, I think he

1342
01:25:33,750 --> 01:25:34,458
really is just

1343
01:25:34,458 --> 01:25:35,208
reminding us that

1344
01:25:35,208 --> 01:25:35,458
there are

1345
01:25:35,458 --> 01:25:36,166
temptations there.

1346
01:25:36,750 --> 01:25:37,458
And he's reminding,

1347
01:25:37,541 --> 01:25:38,208
I think he's really

1348
01:25:38,208 --> 01:25:38,750
reminding us that

1349
01:25:38,750 --> 01:25:39,416
God is not

1350
01:25:39,416 --> 01:25:40,541
a part of leading

1351
01:25:40,541 --> 01:25:41,625
us there. But I

1352
01:25:41,625 --> 01:25:42,291
think to your point

1353
01:25:42,291 --> 01:25:43,125
about the testing,

1354
01:25:43,166 --> 01:25:44,125
like life is about

1355
01:25:44,125 --> 01:25:45,166
struggle and

1356
01:25:45,250 --> 01:25:46,166
learning like to

1357
01:25:46,166 --> 01:25:47,291
choose between, you

1358
01:25:47,291 --> 01:25:48,125
know, one life

1359
01:25:48,125 --> 01:25:48,833
bearing option and

1360
01:25:48,833 --> 01:25:49,666
a non-life

1361
01:25:49,666 --> 01:25:50,291
bearing option, all

1362
01:25:50,291 --> 01:25:51,375
of the major faiths

1363
01:25:51,375 --> 01:25:52,416
have some component

1364
01:25:52,416 --> 01:25:54,041
of some temptation

1365
01:25:54,041 --> 01:25:55,291
testing, period.

1366
01:25:56,250 --> 01:25:57,541
But now James,

1367
01:25:57,708 --> 01:25:58,666
who's the brother

1368
01:25:58,666 --> 01:25:59,750
of Jesus, there's

1369
01:25:59,750 --> 01:26:00,541
an epistle of

1370
01:26:00,541 --> 01:26:00,958
James,

1371
01:26:00,958 --> 01:26:02,083
which maybe is

1372
01:26:02,083 --> 01:26:02,833
actually written by

1373
01:26:02,833 --> 01:26:03,291
his brother

1374
01:26:03,291 --> 01:26:06,166
possibly. And James

1375
01:26:06,166 --> 01:26:06,666
seems to be

1376
01:26:06,666 --> 01:26:07,041
struggling

1377
01:26:07,041 --> 01:26:07,666
with the same

1378
01:26:08,125 --> 01:26:09,375
prayer of Jesus

1379
01:26:09,416 --> 01:26:10,375
there and just

1380
01:26:10,416 --> 01:26:11,333
comes out and says,

1381
01:26:11,625 --> 01:26:12,958
no, we are tested

1382
01:26:12,958 --> 01:26:13,333
and that

1383
01:26:13,333 --> 01:26:13,833
you're blessed

1384
01:26:13,833 --> 01:26:14,458
when you're tested,

1385
01:26:14,458 --> 01:26:15,291
but you are never

1386
01:26:15,291 --> 01:26:16,875
enticed by God. God

1387
01:26:16,875 --> 01:26:17,500
would not do that.

1388
01:26:18,166 --> 01:26:19,083
Okay, so I just

1389
01:26:19,458 --> 01:26:20,708
flashed as you were

1390
01:26:20,708 --> 01:26:21,125
talking about that,

1391
01:26:21,125 --> 01:26:21,916
I flashed on,

1392
01:26:22,208 --> 01:26:23,000
you all know about

1393
01:26:23,625 --> 01:26:24,500
the marshmallow

1394
01:26:24,958 --> 01:26:25,416
experiment,

1395
01:26:25,416 --> 01:26:27,291
Mischel, the

1396
01:26:27,291 --> 01:26:27,958
psychology.

1397
01:26:28,125 --> 01:26:28,750
The marshmallow test.

1398
01:26:28,750 --> 01:26:29,375
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1399
01:26:29,541 --> 01:26:30,791
So this, you get

1400
01:26:30,791 --> 01:26:31,791
little kids and you

1401
01:26:31,791 --> 01:26:33,666
say, you know, here

1402
01:26:33,666 --> 01:26:34,541
are, here's a

1403
01:26:34,541 --> 01:26:35,416
marshmallow

1404
01:26:36,083 --> 01:26:37,041
or a pretzel if the

1405
01:26:37,041 --> 01:26:37,666
kid doesn't have a

1406
01:26:37,666 --> 01:26:38,500
sweet tooth, just

1407
01:26:38,500 --> 01:26:39,583
saying equal

1408
01:26:39,583 --> 01:26:40,208
opportunity

1409
01:26:40,208 --> 01:26:40,875
snacking.

1410
01:26:41,416 --> 01:26:42,708
And if you resist

1411
01:26:42,708 --> 01:26:43,458
eating it for 15

1412
01:26:43,541 --> 01:26:44,000
minutes, you'll get

1413
01:26:44,000 --> 01:26:45,000
two marshmallows.

1414
01:26:45,166 --> 01:26:45,708
And, you know,

1415
01:26:46,083 --> 01:26:46,833
correlation between

1416
01:26:46,833 --> 01:26:47,958
that and like, you

1417
01:26:47,958 --> 01:26:49,541
know, earning

1418
01:26:49,541 --> 01:26:50,125
potential,

1419
01:26:50,125 --> 01:26:50,750
education

1420
01:26:50,750 --> 01:26:51,708
achievement,

1421
01:26:52,500 --> 01:26:53,333
health outcomes,

1422
01:26:53,375 --> 01:26:54,416
all like all down

1423
01:26:54,416 --> 01:26:55,458
the line. And, you

1424
01:26:55,458 --> 01:26:56,666
know, so yeah, I

1425
01:26:56,666 --> 01:26:57,250
mean, I want

1426
01:26:57,375 --> 01:26:58,333
a God that is

1427
01:26:58,416 --> 01:26:59,750
a loving parent to

1428
01:26:59,750 --> 01:27:01,250
teach me to resist

1429
01:27:01,333 --> 01:27:01,708
the first

1430
01:27:01,708 --> 01:27:02,333
marshmallow.

1431
01:27:02,375 --> 01:27:03,041
Deliver me from

1432
01:27:03,041 --> 01:27:03,750
that temptation.

1433
01:27:03,791 --> 01:27:04,333
Yeah, it's like,

1434
01:27:04,333 --> 01:27:05,000
well, don't, you

1435
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:05,416
know, it's like,

1436
01:27:05,583 --> 01:27:06,375
don't lead me into

1437
01:27:06,375 --> 01:27:07,000
that temptation.

1438
01:27:07,000 --> 01:27:07,666
But it's like,

1439
01:27:07,833 --> 01:27:10,208
no, actually, God

1440
01:27:10,208 --> 01:27:11,166
should lead me lead

1441
01:27:11,166 --> 01:27:11,625
me into that

1442
01:27:11,625 --> 01:27:12,166
temptation

1443
01:27:12,166 --> 01:27:13,000
because I will,

1444
01:27:13,166 --> 01:27:14,750
I will have better

1445
01:27:14,791 --> 01:27:16,333
outcomes later on,

1446
01:27:16,375 --> 01:27:16,666
you know.

1447
01:27:16,750 --> 01:27:17,416
And normally as

1448
01:27:17,416 --> 01:27:18,083
kids, we have to

1449
01:27:18,083 --> 01:27:18,708
kind of learn our

1450
01:27:18,708 --> 01:27:19,125
way into

1451
01:27:19,125 --> 01:27:19,541
that, you know,

1452
01:27:20,750 --> 01:27:21,208
delayed

1453
01:27:21,208 --> 01:27:21,958
gratification is

1454
01:27:21,958 --> 01:27:23,208
not a, it's more of

1455
01:27:23,208 --> 01:27:24,166
an acquired taste

1456
01:27:24,166 --> 01:27:24,583
than as a

1457
01:27:24,583 --> 01:27:25,333
native, I think.

1458
01:27:25,333 --> 01:27:26,000
And so we have to

1459
01:27:26,000 --> 01:27:26,583
learn that.

1460
01:27:26,583 --> 01:27:26,958
We have to

1461
01:27:26,958 --> 01:27:27,250
learn that.

1462
01:27:27,250 --> 01:27:27,916
And I think that's

1463
01:27:27,916 --> 01:27:28,666
where we get to

1464
01:27:28,666 --> 01:27:30,041
actually, to me,

1465
01:27:30,333 --> 01:27:30,916
the heart of the

1466
01:27:30,916 --> 01:27:32,666
matter about

1467
01:27:32,666 --> 01:27:33,416
temptation

1468
01:27:33,666 --> 01:27:34,375
that I think is

1469
01:27:34,416 --> 01:27:35,416
overlooked by most

1470
01:27:35,416 --> 01:27:36,333
of society. Like we

1471
01:27:36,333 --> 01:27:36,708
think about

1472
01:27:36,708 --> 01:27:37,166
temptation

1473
01:27:37,166 --> 01:27:37,541
being like,

1474
01:27:37,750 --> 01:27:38,625
sex, drugs, rock

1475
01:27:38,625 --> 01:27:39,208
and roll, you know,

1476
01:27:39,583 --> 01:27:41,208
these overtly... Well, I

1477
01:27:41,208 --> 01:27:41,916
wouldn't call those

1478
01:27:41,916 --> 01:27:42,625
overtly evil

1479
01:27:42,666 --> 01:27:43,333
myself. I mean,

1480
01:27:43,541 --> 01:27:44,041
you know, all these

1481
01:27:44,041 --> 01:27:44,416
things that are

1482
01:27:44,416 --> 01:27:45,541
twisted or that we

1483
01:27:45,541 --> 01:27:46,000
conceive of

1484
01:27:46,000 --> 01:27:46,666
being twisted.

1485
01:27:46,666 --> 01:27:47,208
But I think

1486
01:27:47,208 --> 01:27:49,500
actually the story

1487
01:27:49,500 --> 01:27:50,416
of Jesus in the

1488
01:27:50,416 --> 01:27:52,875
wilderness to me is

1489
01:27:52,875 --> 01:27:53,208
one of those

1490
01:27:53,208 --> 01:27:54,125
foundational

1491
01:27:54,125 --> 01:27:55,041
stories, whether

1492
01:27:55,250 --> 01:27:56,083
there is a literal

1493
01:27:56,083 --> 01:27:56,916
Satan or not, it

1494
01:27:56,916 --> 01:27:57,541
doesn't matter to

1495
01:27:57,541 --> 01:27:59,541
me. If you

1496
01:27:59,541 --> 01:28:00,250
take just the

1497
01:28:00,250 --> 01:28:01,250
story as it is, I

1498
01:28:01,250 --> 01:28:02,958
mean, here is Jesus

1499
01:28:03,166 --> 01:28:04,666
fasting and he's

1500
01:28:04,666 --> 01:28:05,750
all alone. He

1501
01:28:05,750 --> 01:28:06,791
hasn't eaten. And

1502
01:28:07,166 --> 01:28:07,666
you have,

1503
01:28:07,875 --> 01:28:08,541
let's say there is

1504
01:28:08,541 --> 01:28:09,250
a Satan, you know,

1505
01:28:09,250 --> 01:28:10,666
like if you were

1506
01:28:10,666 --> 01:28:11,583
Satan, like you

1507
01:28:11,583 --> 01:28:12,166
would know, like

1508
01:28:12,166 --> 01:28:12,833
this guy,

1509
01:28:13,208 --> 01:28:13,875
he's a powerful

1510
01:28:13,875 --> 01:28:14,708
spiritual figure.

1511
01:28:14,708 --> 01:28:15,166
He's not going to

1512
01:28:15,166 --> 01:28:16,125
be tempted by low

1513
01:28:16,125 --> 01:28:17,000
level stuff. So

1514
01:28:17,000 --> 01:28:17,500
Satan's going

1515
01:28:17,500 --> 01:28:18,166
to bring out his

1516
01:28:18,166 --> 01:28:19,416
biggest guns, like

1517
01:28:20,333 --> 01:28:21,791
his huge ammunition

1518
01:28:21,791 --> 01:28:22,916
to overwhelm

1519
01:28:23,000 --> 01:28:23,625
somebody of the

1520
01:28:23,625 --> 01:28:24,083
spiritual

1521
01:28:24,375 --> 01:28:25,583
stature of Jesus.

1522
01:28:25,583 --> 01:28:26,083
And what does he

1523
01:28:26,083 --> 01:28:27,500
do? He says, you

1524
01:28:27,500 --> 01:28:28,166
know, first of all,

1525
01:28:28,208 --> 01:28:29,083
you turn these,

1526
01:28:29,166 --> 01:28:30,208
if you are the Son

1527
01:28:30,208 --> 01:28:30,833
of God, you turn

1528
01:28:30,833 --> 01:28:32,416
these stones into

1529
01:28:32,541 --> 01:28:34,583
bread. Now, on the

1530
01:28:34,583 --> 01:28:35,375
low level, you say,

1531
01:28:35,500 --> 01:28:36,125
he's tempting him

1532
01:28:36,125 --> 01:28:37,208
to break his fast.

1533
01:28:37,333 --> 01:28:38,083
But this is like a

1534
01:28:38,083 --> 01:28:39,000
spiritual giant.

1535
01:28:39,000 --> 01:28:39,583
Jesus is

1536
01:28:39,750 --> 01:28:40,291
not going to

1537
01:28:40,291 --> 01:28:41,000
just be tempted to

1538
01:28:41,000 --> 01:28:41,625
break his fast.

1539
01:28:41,916 --> 01:28:42,375
This is a

1540
01:28:42,375 --> 01:28:43,583
temptation. Like if

1541
01:28:43,583 --> 01:28:44,583
Israel is

1542
01:28:44,625 --> 01:28:45,333
full of stones,

1543
01:28:45,375 --> 01:28:46,541
if you go to

1544
01:28:46,541 --> 01:28:47,208
Israel, land of

1545
01:28:47,208 --> 01:28:47,583
Israel, you're

1546
01:28:47,583 --> 01:28:48,500
amazed by how stony

1547
01:28:48,500 --> 01:28:49,416
it is. And

1548
01:28:50,208 --> 01:28:50,375
it's like,

1549
01:28:50,375 --> 01:28:51,166
if he could turn

1550
01:28:51,166 --> 01:28:51,916
stones into bread,

1551
01:28:51,916 --> 01:28:52,583
he could solve

1552
01:28:52,583 --> 01:28:53,375
hunger. Like there

1553
01:28:53,375 --> 01:28:53,833
would be no more

1554
01:28:53,833 --> 01:28:54,333
hunger in the

1555
01:28:54,333 --> 01:28:54,916
world. There's a

1556
01:28:54,916 --> 01:28:55,666
temptation, like

1557
01:28:55,833 --> 01:28:57,500
focus your ministry

1558
01:28:58,125 --> 01:29:00,041
entirely on feeding

1559
01:29:00,041 --> 01:29:00,333
the hungry.

1560
01:29:00,333 --> 01:29:00,500
Of course,

1561
01:29:00,541 --> 01:29:01,500
Jesus does feed the

1562
01:29:01,500 --> 01:29:02,125
hungry at times,

1563
01:29:02,125 --> 01:29:02,666
but he doesn't,

1564
01:29:02,666 --> 01:29:03,333
that's not his

1565
01:29:03,458 --> 01:29:04,416
whole focus.

1566
01:29:04,916 --> 01:29:05,958
The next temptation

1567
01:29:05,958 --> 01:29:07,333
is, depending which

1568
01:29:07,333 --> 01:29:07,833
gospel you read,

1569
01:29:07,833 --> 01:29:08,375
they're all three

1570
01:29:08,375 --> 01:29:08,833
of the same,

1571
01:29:08,833 --> 01:29:09,500
but in different

1572
01:29:09,500 --> 01:29:10,875
order. But another

1573
01:29:10,875 --> 01:29:14,041
one is, if you bow

1574
01:29:14,041 --> 01:29:15,333
down to me and I

1575
01:29:15,333 --> 01:29:15,666
will give

1576
01:29:15,666 --> 01:29:15,958
you all the

1577
01:29:15,958 --> 01:29:17,166
kingdoms of the

1578
01:29:17,166 --> 01:29:19,416
world. And so it's

1579
01:29:19,416 --> 01:29:20,041
like, well, there's

1580
01:29:20,041 --> 01:29:21,000
a temptation to

1581
01:29:21,000 --> 01:29:21,666
focus on

1582
01:29:21,666 --> 01:29:22,958
political power.

1583
01:29:23,083 --> 01:29:24,666
Jesus did exercise

1584
01:29:24,666 --> 01:29:25,666
political power for

1585
01:29:25,666 --> 01:29:26,708
sure, but did he

1586
01:29:26,708 --> 01:29:27,583
focus his own

1587
01:29:27,583 --> 01:29:27,916
ministry on

1588
01:29:27,916 --> 01:29:28,833
that? Heck no.

1589
01:29:28,833 --> 01:29:29,916
And then the final

1590
01:29:29,916 --> 01:29:30,666
one is, if you're

1591
01:29:30,666 --> 01:29:31,208
the Son of God,

1592
01:29:31,208 --> 01:29:33,000
jump off the temple

1593
01:29:33,000 --> 01:29:34,125
and let the

1594
01:29:34,125 --> 01:29:34,750
angels save

1595
01:29:34,750 --> 01:29:35,833
you. And that is

1596
01:29:35,833 --> 01:29:36,708
really a temptation

1597
01:29:36,708 --> 01:29:38,125
to convince people

1598
01:29:38,125 --> 01:29:39,000
beyond any shadow

1599
01:29:39,000 --> 01:29:39,375
of a doubt.

1600
01:29:39,375 --> 01:29:39,791
So there's

1601
01:29:39,791 --> 01:29:41,291
no need for faith

1602
01:29:41,291 --> 01:29:42,208
anymore. You have

1603
01:29:42,208 --> 01:29:42,875
certainty, like

1604
01:29:43,125 --> 01:29:44,958
he's the one. And

1605
01:29:44,958 --> 01:29:45,208
of course,

1606
01:29:45,208 --> 01:29:45,833
he did do

1607
01:29:45,875 --> 01:29:46,708
miracles according

1608
01:29:46,708 --> 01:29:47,291
to the scriptures,

1609
01:29:47,291 --> 01:29:48,291
but that wasn't his

1610
01:29:48,291 --> 01:29:49,291
focus again.

1611
01:29:49,875 --> 01:29:50,333
Probably

1612
01:29:50,333 --> 01:29:50,833
the sense that

1613
01:29:51,083 --> 01:29:51,958
if you knew, if he

1614
01:29:51,958 --> 01:29:52,750
made it too clear,

1615
01:29:52,750 --> 01:29:53,166
you would break

1616
01:29:53,166 --> 01:29:54,291
that free will. So

1617
01:29:54,291 --> 01:29:54,833
all three

1618
01:29:54,833 --> 01:29:55,541
temptations,

1619
01:29:55,833 --> 01:29:57,041
this is the kicker,

1620
01:29:57,416 --> 01:29:58,375
are to do good,

1621
01:29:58,375 --> 01:29:59,791
like profound good.

1622
01:30:00,125 --> 01:30:01,291
It's just not the

1623
01:30:01,291 --> 01:30:02,875
good. There

1624
01:30:02,875 --> 01:30:03,750
seems to be

1625
01:30:03,750 --> 01:30:04,291
this temptation,

1626
01:30:04,291 --> 01:30:04,833
it's either it's

1627
01:30:04,833 --> 01:30:05,875
not your good to

1628
01:30:05,875 --> 01:30:06,750
do, or it's

1629
01:30:06,750 --> 01:30:07,791
emphasizing it's

1630
01:30:07,791 --> 01:30:09,458
too much of that.

1631
01:30:09,458 --> 01:30:10,708
You overemphasize

1632
01:30:10,708 --> 01:30:12,416
that, because Jesus

1633
01:30:12,416 --> 01:30:13,250
did all three, but

1634
01:30:13,250 --> 01:30:13,958
he did not

1635
01:30:13,958 --> 01:30:14,666
overemphasize

1636
01:30:14,666 --> 01:30:14,958
that. His

1637
01:30:14,958 --> 01:30:15,500
calling was

1638
01:30:15,500 --> 01:30:16,958
different. But it

1639
01:30:16,958 --> 01:30:17,625
seems like that's

1640
01:30:17,625 --> 01:30:18,333
where I'm tempted

1641
01:30:18,333 --> 01:30:18,541
most.

1642
01:30:19,791 --> 01:30:21,625
That's where we,

1643
01:30:21,875 --> 01:30:23,041
all three of us in

1644
01:30:23,041 --> 01:30:24,375
our opening...

1645
01:30:25,541 --> 01:30:26,041
That's what you

1646
01:30:26,041 --> 01:30:26,500
were hearing.

1647
01:30:26,541 --> 01:30:27,416
We were all tempted

1648
01:30:27,416 --> 01:30:28,625
by things that

1649
01:30:28,625 --> 01:30:29,166
appeared to be

1650
01:30:29,166 --> 01:30:31,291
good, and yet were

1651
01:30:31,333 --> 01:30:32,250
our good to do.

1652
01:30:32,708 --> 01:30:33,458
Let me get to, you

1653
01:30:33,458 --> 01:30:34,208
had mentioned free

1654
01:30:34,208 --> 01:30:34,833
will. And I'm going

1655
01:30:34,833 --> 01:30:36,000
to bring in a

1656
01:30:36,000 --> 01:30:36,666
philosopher

1657
01:30:36,666 --> 01:30:37,291
by the name of

1658
01:30:37,458 --> 01:30:39,166
Hasdai Crescas, who

1659
01:30:39,166 --> 01:30:40,708
nobody knows. But I

1660
01:30:40,708 --> 01:30:41,166
happen to have

1661
01:30:41,166 --> 01:30:42,083
written my thesis

1662
01:30:42,083 --> 01:30:42,666
on freedom

1663
01:30:42,666 --> 01:30:43,416
of medieval

1664
01:30:43,541 --> 01:30:43,958
Jewish

1665
01:30:43,958 --> 01:30:45,250
philosophers' views

1666
01:30:45,250 --> 01:30:46,166
of freedom of will.

1667
01:30:46,541 --> 01:30:47,500
And the joke is, I

1668
01:30:47,500 --> 01:30:47,708
didn't

1669
01:30:47,708 --> 01:30:48,791
choose that topic.

1670
01:30:51,666 --> 01:30:52,708
Anyway, so there's

1671
01:30:52,708 --> 01:30:53,750
this question of

1672
01:30:54,041 --> 01:30:54,958
being led into

1673
01:30:54,958 --> 01:30:55,791
temptation, and

1674
01:30:55,791 --> 01:30:56,541
Hasdai Crescas

1675
01:30:56,833 --> 01:30:58,500
wanted God to be in

1676
01:30:58,500 --> 01:30:59,083
charge of

1677
01:30:59,083 --> 01:31:00,250
everything and

1678
01:31:00,250 --> 01:31:01,416
being able to judge

1679
01:31:01,416 --> 01:31:02,958
people. Well, that

1680
01:31:03,458 --> 01:31:04,375
kind of messes up

1681
01:31:04,375 --> 01:31:05,125
with free will.

1682
01:31:06,250 --> 01:31:07,333
If God's in control

1683
01:31:07,333 --> 01:31:07,916
of everything, we

1684
01:31:07,916 --> 01:31:08,291
don't have

1685
01:31:08,291 --> 01:31:08,708
free will.

1686
01:31:09,208 --> 01:31:09,583
Hasdai Crescas

1687
01:31:09,666 --> 01:31:10,750
threads the needle

1688
01:31:10,791 --> 01:31:11,833
in a very unique

1689
01:31:11,833 --> 01:31:12,708
way, where he says,

1690
01:31:13,750 --> 01:31:15,291
"Over our actions,

1691
01:31:15,333 --> 01:31:16,458
we do not have free

1692
01:31:16,458 --> 01:31:18,333
will. But over our

1693
01:31:18,333 --> 01:31:19,291
opinion of our

1694
01:31:19,291 --> 01:31:20,500
actions, we do."

1695
01:31:21,875 --> 01:31:22,708
So if you're doing

1696
01:31:22,708 --> 01:31:23,458
something that's

1697
01:31:23,458 --> 01:31:26,125
wrong, that's fine,

1698
01:31:26,250 --> 01:31:27,250
as long as you

1699
01:31:27,250 --> 01:31:28,208
would know to

1700
01:31:28,208 --> 01:31:28,666
yourself,

1701
01:31:28,708 --> 01:31:29,458
"I really shouldn't

1702
01:31:29,458 --> 01:31:30,291
be doing this."

1703
01:31:32,208 --> 01:31:32,791
Well, that gives...

1704
01:31:32,875 --> 01:31:33,583
There's a reason

1705
01:31:33,583 --> 01:31:34,375
Crescas isn't

1706
01:31:34,375 --> 01:31:35,041
that famous.

1707
01:31:35,583 --> 01:31:36,125
It's a very

1708
01:31:36,125 --> 01:31:36,541
popular...

1709
01:31:36,541 --> 01:31:37,000
I think it'd be

1710
01:31:37,000 --> 01:31:37,750
very popular. It's

1711
01:31:37,750 --> 01:31:38,541
like, "Okay, so we

1712
01:31:38,541 --> 01:31:39,291
can't help you a

1713
01:31:39,291 --> 01:31:39,583
little bit."

1714
01:31:39,583 --> 01:31:41,083
Okay, so then he

1715
01:31:41,083 --> 01:31:43,000
says, just to show

1716
01:31:43,000 --> 01:31:43,875
his hands, at the

1717
01:31:43,875 --> 01:31:44,875
end of his part of

1718
01:31:44,875 --> 01:31:45,875
free will, he says,

1719
01:31:46,125 --> 01:31:46,875
"But don't tell

1720
01:31:46,875 --> 01:31:48,041
this to the masses,

1721
01:31:48,041 --> 01:31:48,750
because they might

1722
01:31:48,750 --> 01:31:49,708
misunderstand it."

1723
01:31:50,666 --> 01:31:51,500
So I'm like, "I

1724
01:31:51,500 --> 01:31:52,041
didn't have free

1725
01:31:52,041 --> 01:31:53,083
will except to tell

1726
01:31:53,083 --> 01:31:53,416
it to the

1727
01:31:53,416 --> 01:31:54,291
masses, but

1728
01:31:55,166 --> 01:31:56,000
leave Crescas in

1729
01:31:56,000 --> 01:31:57,083
the 1300s."

1730
01:31:58,583 --> 01:32:00,041
I want to bring us

1731
01:32:00,500 --> 01:32:01,500
eventually to a

1732
01:32:01,500 --> 01:32:02,375
question about how

1733
01:32:02,416 --> 01:32:05,250
do we, in our faith

1734
01:32:05,250 --> 01:32:07,458
paths, find ways to

1735
01:32:08,583 --> 01:32:09,750
be free of

1736
01:32:10,208 --> 01:32:11,125
temptation or to

1737
01:32:11,416 --> 01:32:12,208
mitigate it or

1738
01:32:12,208 --> 01:32:13,000
manage it or what

1739
01:32:13,000 --> 01:32:13,333
have you.

1740
01:32:13,375 --> 01:32:14,916
I do. I'm still

1741
01:32:14,916 --> 01:32:15,833
stuck with this

1742
01:32:15,833 --> 01:32:16,583
idea that we're

1743
01:32:16,625 --> 01:32:19,041
outsourcing our

1744
01:32:21,500 --> 01:32:22,958
need to not be

1745
01:32:22,958 --> 01:32:24,125
tempted to God.

1746
01:32:26,125 --> 01:32:27,583
That it's just not

1747
01:32:27,583 --> 01:32:28,708
sitting... That's

1748
01:32:28,708 --> 01:32:29,958
my moral of today's

1749
01:32:29,958 --> 01:32:30,875
story is,

1750
01:32:30,875 --> 01:32:33,583
it just doesn't

1751
01:32:33,583 --> 01:32:34,666
feel right. I can't

1752
01:32:34,666 --> 01:32:35,541
get my head around

1753
01:32:35,541 --> 01:32:37,750
why would God lead

1754
01:32:37,750 --> 01:32:39,000
us into temptation?

1755
01:32:39,000 --> 01:32:40,125
And isn't that on

1756
01:32:40,125 --> 01:32:41,333
me? Isn't that what

1757
01:32:41,333 --> 01:32:42,250
I'm being judged

1758
01:32:42,250 --> 01:32:45,416
on? If God doesn't

1759
01:32:46,791 --> 01:32:47,500
prevent me

1760
01:32:47,500 --> 01:32:48,125
from going

1761
01:32:48,125 --> 01:32:49,041
into temptation,

1762
01:32:49,041 --> 01:32:49,791
how is God then

1763
01:32:49,791 --> 01:32:50,625
going to judge me?

1764
01:32:50,708 --> 01:32:51,250
All right, so

1765
01:32:51,250 --> 01:32:52,958
from... Let me see

1766
01:32:52,958 --> 01:32:54,583
if I can answer

1767
01:32:54,583 --> 01:32:55,791
that from a

1768
01:32:55,791 --> 01:32:56,125
Buddhist

1769
01:32:56,125 --> 01:32:56,666
perspective.

1770
01:32:56,666 --> 01:32:59,625
I mean, again, I'm

1771
01:32:59,625 --> 01:33:00,791
thinking here about

1772
01:33:01,583 --> 01:33:02,750
the guy who would

1773
01:33:02,750 --> 01:33:03,458
wake up and be

1774
01:33:03,458 --> 01:33:03,916
called the

1775
01:33:03,916 --> 01:33:04,458
awakened one,

1776
01:33:04,458 --> 01:33:05,250
hence the Buddha.

1777
01:33:05,291 --> 01:33:05,791
That's what that

1778
01:33:06,208 --> 01:33:08,250
name means. Sitting

1779
01:33:08,250 --> 01:33:09,041
there and being

1780
01:33:09,041 --> 01:33:10,666
assailed by doubts.

1781
01:33:11,250 --> 01:33:11,833
One of the things

1782
01:33:11,833 --> 01:33:12,666
that Mara says to

1783
01:33:12,666 --> 01:33:13,291
him is like, "How

1784
01:33:13,291 --> 01:33:14,375
do you..." I mean,

1785
01:33:14,375 --> 01:33:14,958
it's very

1786
01:33:14,958 --> 01:33:15,750
similar to

1787
01:33:16,083 --> 01:33:17,208
the temptation of

1788
01:33:17,208 --> 01:33:17,958
Jesus. It's like,

1789
01:33:18,333 --> 01:33:19,125
"Why do you think

1790
01:33:19,125 --> 01:33:19,791
you're going to get

1791
01:33:19,791 --> 01:33:20,083
somewhere

1792
01:33:20,083 --> 01:33:20,500
that nowhere

1793
01:33:20,500 --> 01:33:21,541
else... Are you

1794
01:33:21,541 --> 01:33:22,208
really the Son of

1795
01:33:22,208 --> 01:33:22,833
God? Are you really

1796
01:33:22,833 --> 01:33:23,500
going to wake up?

1797
01:33:23,750 --> 01:33:24,416
Why you?"

1798
01:33:25,333 --> 01:33:26,333
So being assailed

1799
01:33:26,333 --> 01:33:26,916
by doubts, being

1800
01:33:26,916 --> 01:33:27,583
assailed by

1801
01:33:27,666 --> 01:33:28,916
discomfort, by the

1802
01:33:28,958 --> 01:33:30,125
possibility of

1803
01:33:31,416 --> 01:33:32,375
endless bliss.

1804
01:33:35,791 --> 01:33:37,458
We don't learn to

1805
01:33:37,458 --> 01:33:39,250
sit still when

1806
01:33:39,250 --> 01:33:40,208
we're comfortable.

1807
01:33:40,291 --> 01:33:40,791
We learn

1808
01:33:40,791 --> 01:33:41,916
to sit still

1809
01:33:42,458 --> 01:33:42,916
when we're

1810
01:33:43,000 --> 01:33:43,666
uncomfortable,

1811
01:33:43,666 --> 01:33:44,500
because it's easy

1812
01:33:44,500 --> 01:33:45,375
to sit still if I'm

1813
01:33:45,375 --> 01:33:46,000
comfortable.

1814
01:33:47,708 --> 01:33:48,375
So there's

1815
01:33:48,375 --> 01:33:51,875
something about how

1816
01:33:52,291 --> 01:33:54,250
hard it is to get

1817
01:33:54,250 --> 01:33:55,041
to the place where

1818
01:33:55,041 --> 01:33:56,500
we expose

1819
01:33:56,500 --> 01:33:57,541
ourselves to the

1820
01:33:57,625 --> 01:33:59,375
irritants. But if

1821
01:33:59,375 --> 01:34:00,708
we don't do that,

1822
01:34:00,750 --> 01:34:02,791
then we never grow

1823
01:34:02,791 --> 01:34:03,666
up spiritually,

1824
01:34:03,666 --> 01:34:04,375
psychologically,

1825
01:34:04,375 --> 01:34:04,833
emotionally.

1826
01:34:04,875 --> 01:34:05,750
Does it make sense?

1827
01:34:05,750 --> 01:34:06,958
It's like the echo

1828
01:34:06,958 --> 01:34:08,041
chamber of social

1829
01:34:08,041 --> 01:34:09,083
media. If I'm only

1830
01:34:09,083 --> 01:34:09,666
listening to the

1831
01:34:09,666 --> 01:34:10,166
people who are

1832
01:34:10,166 --> 01:34:11,041
railing against the

1833
01:34:11,041 --> 01:34:11,583
same things I'm

1834
01:34:11,583 --> 01:34:12,375
railing against, it

1835
01:34:12,375 --> 01:34:13,125
feels really good.

1836
01:34:13,125 --> 01:34:15,375
It feels really

1837
01:34:15,375 --> 01:34:16,333
awful to have to

1838
01:34:16,333 --> 01:34:17,166
hear the stuff that

1839
01:34:17,166 --> 01:34:18,125
I disagree with,

1840
01:34:18,708 --> 01:34:19,458
especially when it

1841
01:34:19,458 --> 01:34:21,333
comes from the

1842
01:34:21,333 --> 01:34:21,875
mouths of

1843
01:34:21,875 --> 01:34:22,833
people I love.

1844
01:34:23,083 --> 01:34:25,541
Yeah. Yeah, I just

1845
01:34:25,541 --> 01:34:26,208
have to come down

1846
01:34:26,208 --> 01:34:26,791
like God would

1847
01:34:26,791 --> 01:34:28,250
never lead us into

1848
01:34:28,250 --> 01:34:28,625
something

1849
01:34:28,625 --> 01:34:29,416
overly evil,

1850
01:34:29,416 --> 01:34:30,208
ever. And we do

1851
01:34:30,208 --> 01:34:31,000
have temptation,

1852
01:34:31,000 --> 01:34:31,541
wherever it comes

1853
01:34:31,541 --> 01:34:32,958
from. We do, and we

1854
01:34:32,958 --> 01:34:33,500
try to

1855
01:34:33,500 --> 01:34:34,583
strive to live

1856
01:34:34,583 --> 01:34:36,208
beyond that in some

1857
01:34:36,208 --> 01:34:37,083
way. And to the

1858
01:34:37,083 --> 01:34:37,833
extent that we

1859
01:34:37,833 --> 01:34:38,583
believe in a higher

1860
01:34:38,583 --> 01:34:39,500
power, we would

1861
01:34:39,500 --> 01:34:39,875
love to have

1862
01:34:39,875 --> 01:34:41,541
that help from that

1863
01:34:42,000 --> 01:34:43,583
higher power. I

1864
01:34:43,583 --> 01:34:44,708
think the biggest

1865
01:34:44,750 --> 01:34:45,708
temptations

1866
01:34:46,083 --> 01:34:46,583
that I've

1867
01:34:47,750 --> 01:34:48,791
ever faced are the

1868
01:34:48,791 --> 01:34:49,750
temptations where I

1869
01:34:49,750 --> 01:34:50,458
think that I am

1870
01:34:50,458 --> 01:34:51,208
going to do

1871
01:34:51,208 --> 01:34:52,083
something really,

1872
01:34:52,083 --> 01:34:52,750
really good.

1873
01:34:53,750 --> 01:34:54,541
That's when I know

1874
01:34:54,541 --> 01:34:58,041
that, "Okay, what's

1875
01:34:58,041 --> 01:34:58,916
going on here?"

1876
01:34:59,416 --> 01:35:01,083
That kind of

1877
01:35:01,500 --> 01:35:02,583
fantasy that

1878
01:35:02,791 --> 01:35:04,041
I will fix it.

1879
01:35:04,291 --> 01:35:05,916
Every time I'm

1880
01:35:05,916 --> 01:35:06,541
driven by that

1881
01:35:06,541 --> 01:35:08,208
fantasy that I see

1882
01:35:08,208 --> 01:35:08,958
the problem and I

1883
01:35:08,958 --> 01:35:09,541
can fix it,

1884
01:35:10,625 --> 01:35:11,250
"Oh, Lord, help

1885
01:35:11,250 --> 01:35:14,583
us." Yeah. So maybe

1886
01:35:14,583 --> 01:35:15,208
it is helpful to

1887
01:35:15,333 --> 01:35:16,625
say, "Lord, deliver

1888
01:35:16,625 --> 01:35:17,166
us from evil,"

1889
01:35:17,166 --> 01:35:18,125
not just, "Let me

1890
01:35:18,166 --> 01:35:18,708
deliver us from

1891
01:35:18,708 --> 01:35:20,916
evil." Yeah. Yeah.

1892
01:35:21,208 --> 01:35:22,625
I think we might

1893
01:35:22,625 --> 01:35:24,583
get something on

1894
01:35:24,583 --> 01:35:26,083
why, which is the

1895
01:35:26,083 --> 01:35:27,666
next part. Why

1896
01:35:27,666 --> 01:35:28,250
should God

1897
01:35:28,250 --> 01:35:29,041
do this? For

1898
01:35:29,083 --> 01:35:31,000
thine is the kingdom

1899
01:35:31,000 --> 01:35:32,500
and the glory.

1900
01:35:32,500 --> 01:35:34,250
But to just take

1901
01:35:34,250 --> 01:35:35,500
this part alone,

1902
01:35:35,500 --> 01:35:36,750
I think there's more

1903
01:35:36,750 --> 01:35:38,250
juice on how that's

1904
01:35:38,250 --> 01:35:39,000
connected in.

1905
01:35:39,333 --> 01:35:42,291
For the end of the

1906
01:35:42,291 --> 01:35:43,500
prayer. Yeah, which

1907
01:35:43,500 --> 01:35:44,958
we will come to

1908
01:35:44,958 --> 01:35:45,750
that next-

1909
01:35:46,083 --> 01:35:46,958
Stay tuned. Stay

1910
01:35:46,958 --> 01:35:48,833
tuned. So I would

1911
01:35:48,833 --> 01:35:49,583
like to then let's

1912
01:35:49,583 --> 01:35:50,000
bring this

1913
01:35:50,000 --> 01:35:50,458
conversation

1914
01:35:50,458 --> 01:35:51,666
and then we

1915
01:35:51,666 --> 01:35:53,250
will continue on

1916
01:35:53,250 --> 01:35:53,875
this line of

1917
01:35:53,875 --> 01:35:55,000
thought though into

1918
01:35:55,000 --> 01:35:55,916
the next, as Brian

1919
01:35:55,916 --> 01:35:59,041
suggests. So you've

1920
01:35:59,041 --> 01:36:00,333
noticed, Esther,

1921
01:36:00,333 --> 01:36:00,750
that you're tempted

1922
01:36:00,750 --> 01:36:01,416
by the powerful

1923
01:36:01,416 --> 01:36:02,041
good. I am too.

1924
01:36:02,041 --> 01:36:02,375
That's the

1925
01:36:02,375 --> 01:36:02,791
biggest way

1926
01:36:02,791 --> 01:36:03,375
to tempt me is

1927
01:36:03,375 --> 01:36:04,458
like, "Oh, you can

1928
01:36:04,458 --> 01:36:05,250
do a great thing."

1929
01:36:06,000 --> 01:36:08,875
But obviously, our

1930
01:36:08,875 --> 01:36:09,958
time on

1931
01:36:09,958 --> 01:36:10,541
earth seems to be

1932
01:36:10,541 --> 01:36:12,000
about doing good.

1933
01:36:12,833 --> 01:36:13,791
And so how do we

1934
01:36:13,791 --> 01:36:15,125
then discern what's

1935
01:36:15,125 --> 01:36:15,875
the good that we

1936
01:36:15,875 --> 01:36:16,208
should be

1937
01:36:16,208 --> 01:36:16,666
doing? What

1938
01:36:16,666 --> 01:36:17,416
gives you the

1939
01:36:17,416 --> 01:36:18,250
confidence to do

1940
01:36:18,250 --> 01:36:19,000
something, to act

1941
01:36:19,000 --> 01:36:19,375
on something

1942
01:36:19,375 --> 01:36:20,500
that... Yeah.

1943
01:36:22,166 --> 01:36:23,083
I'll bring it back

1944
01:36:23,083 --> 01:36:24,083
to the next line of thought.

1945
01:36:24,083 --> 01:36:24,625
I'll bring it back to this Jewish

1946
01:36:24,625 --> 01:36:25,791
idea. If it weren't

1947
01:36:25,791 --> 01:36:26,416
for this

1948
01:36:26,416 --> 01:36:27,333
temptation, we

1949
01:36:27,333 --> 01:36:28,166
wouldn't build

1950
01:36:28,166 --> 01:36:29,000
buildings. We

1951
01:36:29,000 --> 01:36:29,541
wouldn't get

1952
01:36:29,541 --> 01:36:30,208
married. We

1953
01:36:30,208 --> 01:36:30,750
wouldn't have

1954
01:36:30,750 --> 01:36:33,000
business. We are

1955
01:36:33,000 --> 01:36:34,583
tempted. It's this

1956
01:36:34,583 --> 01:36:35,458
part of us

1957
01:36:35,458 --> 01:36:37,333
that's... It's what

1958
01:36:37,333 --> 01:36:38,208
you're saying is,

1959
01:36:38,208 --> 01:36:39,500
"I'm going to

1960
01:36:39,833 --> 01:36:41,125
better the world.

1961
01:36:42,500 --> 01:36:43,416
But if we

1962
01:36:43,416 --> 01:36:44,458
didn't try,

1963
01:36:45,333 --> 01:36:46,333
where would we be?"

1964
01:36:48,666 --> 01:36:50,083
I think Buddhism

1965
01:36:50,083 --> 01:36:50,708
has something to

1966
01:36:50,708 --> 01:36:51,416
offer here,

1967
01:36:52,041 --> 01:36:54,583
which is a very

1968
01:36:54,583 --> 01:36:55,666
explicit teaching

1969
01:36:56,083 --> 01:36:57,791
that there might be

1970
01:36:57,791 --> 01:36:58,250
actions that

1971
01:36:58,250 --> 01:36:59,333
produce good karma

1972
01:37:00,541 --> 01:37:01,041
that are very

1973
01:37:01,041 --> 01:37:02,750
wholesome. And

1974
01:37:02,750 --> 01:37:03,125
there might be

1975
01:37:03,125 --> 01:37:03,500
actions that

1976
01:37:03,500 --> 01:37:04,500
produce bad karma

1977
01:37:04,541 --> 01:37:05,166
that are very

1978
01:37:05,166 --> 01:37:05,750
unwholesome,

1979
01:37:06,583 --> 01:37:08,041
but neither of

1980
01:37:08,041 --> 01:37:09,041
those are the goal

1981
01:37:09,083 --> 01:37:09,750
of spiritual

1982
01:37:09,750 --> 01:37:11,500
practice. The goal

1983
01:37:11,500 --> 01:37:11,916
of spiritual

1984
01:37:11,916 --> 01:37:13,208
practice is the

1985
01:37:13,250 --> 01:37:14,833
actions that

1986
01:37:14,833 --> 01:37:15,583
produce the karma

1987
01:37:15,583 --> 01:37:16,625
that ends karma.

1988
01:37:17,375 --> 01:37:18,750
And I think of this

1989
01:37:18,916 --> 01:37:20,083
like... One

1990
01:37:20,083 --> 01:37:20,583
of the ways I

1991
01:37:20,583 --> 01:37:21,375
understand this is

1992
01:37:21,375 --> 01:37:22,000
in terms of the

1993
01:37:22,000 --> 01:37:22,583
work that I was

1994
01:37:22,583 --> 01:37:23,083
doing when I was a

1995
01:37:23,083 --> 01:37:23,666
university

1996
01:37:23,666 --> 01:37:24,375
professor and an

1997
01:37:24,375 --> 01:37:25,250
administrator. And

1998
01:37:25,250 --> 01:37:25,875
it's like, I could

1999
01:37:25,875 --> 01:37:26,708
think of things

2000
01:37:26,708 --> 01:37:27,583
that would solve

2001
01:37:28,083 --> 01:37:28,541
local

2002
01:37:28,541 --> 01:37:29,708
problems and fix

2003
01:37:29,708 --> 01:37:30,958
local things and it

2004
01:37:30,958 --> 01:37:32,291
would be good. It

2005
01:37:32,291 --> 01:37:32,750
would be good for

2006
01:37:32,750 --> 01:37:34,791
lots of people. But

2007
01:37:35,000 --> 01:37:35,500
I left the

2008
01:37:35,500 --> 01:37:36,000
university

2009
01:37:36,000 --> 01:37:36,625
because I reached a

2010
01:37:36,625 --> 01:37:37,250
point where it was

2011
01:37:37,250 --> 01:37:38,375
like... But the

2012
01:37:38,375 --> 01:37:39,166
good that I'm doing

2013
01:37:39,166 --> 01:37:40,291
is just

2014
01:37:40,291 --> 01:37:41,083
keeping this

2015
01:37:42,000 --> 01:37:43,583
ailing institution

2016
01:37:43,625 --> 01:37:45,166
kind of going, Band-

2017
01:37:45,166 --> 01:37:46,208
Aiding it together.

2018
01:37:46,500 --> 01:37:47,416
And it's not really

2019
01:37:47,416 --> 01:37:48,666
solving the

2020
01:37:48,666 --> 01:37:50,125
spiritual torment

2021
01:37:50,125 --> 01:37:50,666
or hunger or

2022
01:37:50,666 --> 01:37:52,000
whatever of the age

2023
01:37:52,000 --> 01:37:52,708
that I was born

2024
01:37:52,708 --> 01:37:55,541
into. Doing good

2025
01:37:56,208 --> 01:37:57,541
doesn't necessarily

2026
01:37:59,625 --> 01:38:01,875
really heal, really

2027
01:38:01,875 --> 01:38:05,333
liberate us. So is

2028
01:38:06,833 --> 01:38:08,083
my goal to do good?

2029
01:38:08,125 --> 01:38:09,166
My goal is to not,

2030
01:38:09,166 --> 01:38:09,708
certainly not

2031
01:38:09,958 --> 01:38:12,708
do harm. I think

2032
01:38:13,458 --> 01:38:14,666
there's a quote by

2033
01:38:15,333 --> 01:38:16,500
Paul, I think it

2034
01:38:16,500 --> 01:38:17,875
is, that the good

2035
01:38:17,875 --> 01:38:18,541
that I try to

2036
01:38:18,541 --> 01:38:19,541
do, I do not.

2037
01:38:19,958 --> 01:38:21,166
And help me

2038
01:38:21,166 --> 01:38:21,708
with the second

2039
01:38:21,708 --> 01:38:22,291
half of that.

2040
01:38:22,625 --> 01:38:22,791
Yeah.

2041
01:38:22,875 --> 01:38:23,375
Well, he

2042
01:38:23,375 --> 01:38:24,583
acknowledges that

2043
01:38:24,708 --> 01:38:28,083
he wants to, he

2044
01:38:28,083 --> 01:38:28,666
knows what it is,

2045
01:38:28,666 --> 01:38:29,833
but he continually

2046
01:38:29,833 --> 01:38:31,125
fails at it. That

2047
01:38:31,333 --> 01:38:32,500
he absolutely

2048
01:38:32,500 --> 01:38:33,250
relies on God's

2049
01:38:33,250 --> 01:38:33,916
grace. He's got to

2050
01:38:33,916 --> 01:38:35,458
have... Paul is

2051
01:38:35,458 --> 01:38:36,333
huge on grace.

2052
01:38:36,791 --> 01:38:37,291
Because Paul is

2053
01:38:37,291 --> 01:38:37,916
very realistic

2054
01:38:38,291 --> 01:38:39,500
himself before he's

2055
01:38:39,500 --> 01:38:40,250
even realistic

2056
01:38:40,250 --> 01:38:40,750
about everybody

2057
01:38:40,750 --> 01:38:42,166
else. It's like, I

2058
01:38:42,916 --> 01:38:43,333
know what the

2059
01:38:43,333 --> 01:38:45,250
good is and I

2060
01:38:45,250 --> 01:38:48,041
fail so much to do

2061
01:38:48,041 --> 01:38:50,708
it. I wonder if,

2062
01:38:50,708 --> 01:38:51,708
like for me, and I

2063
01:38:51,750 --> 01:38:52,375
wonder how you'd

2064
01:38:52,458 --> 01:38:53,000
bounce off

2065
01:38:53,000 --> 01:38:53,416
this Esther,

2066
01:38:53,416 --> 01:38:54,041
because you might

2067
01:38:54,041 --> 01:38:56,416
disagree too... Like

2068
01:38:56,416 --> 01:38:57,708
I do believe in

2069
01:38:57,708 --> 01:38:59,333
doing the good. I

2070
01:38:59,375 --> 01:39:00,208
can sense where

2071
01:39:00,208 --> 01:39:00,625
you're going,

2072
01:39:00,625 --> 01:39:01,791
like there needs to

2073
01:39:01,791 --> 01:39:02,916
be a place where I

2074
01:39:02,916 --> 01:39:03,541
can almost hear

2075
01:39:03,541 --> 01:39:06,041
Rumi's, his saying,

2076
01:39:06,166 --> 01:39:06,833
"Out beyond

2077
01:39:06,833 --> 01:39:07,416
the field of

2078
01:39:07,666 --> 01:39:08,000
right doing and

2079
01:39:08,000 --> 01:39:08,708
wrongdoing, there's

2080
01:39:08,708 --> 01:39:09,375
a field, I'll meet

2081
01:39:09,375 --> 01:39:11,291
you there." And it's

2082
01:39:11,291 --> 01:39:11,708
like, oh, I

2083
01:39:11,708 --> 01:39:12,083
love that,

2084
01:39:12,083 --> 01:39:13,458
just by I can rest

2085
01:39:13,458 --> 01:39:14,750
in that. It's

2086
01:39:14,750 --> 01:39:15,541
beyond right and

2087
01:39:15,541 --> 01:39:16,916
wrong. At the same

2088
01:39:16,916 --> 01:39:18,708
time, there's good

2089
01:39:18,708 --> 01:39:19,083
I want to

2090
01:39:19,083 --> 01:39:19,916
do in the world.

2091
01:39:20,291 --> 01:39:21,166
And at least my

2092
01:39:21,166 --> 01:39:22,666
principle for it

2093
01:39:22,708 --> 01:39:24,708
is, it's not just,

2094
01:39:24,875 --> 01:39:25,416
is it a good

2095
01:39:25,416 --> 01:39:26,000
thing? Well,

2096
01:39:26,125 --> 01:39:28,041
do it. No. Is it my

2097
01:39:28,041 --> 01:39:28,833
good thing? Like

2098
01:39:28,833 --> 01:39:30,166
does this align

2099
01:39:30,166 --> 01:39:31,291
with what brings my

2100
01:39:31,291 --> 01:39:32,625
soul alive

2101
01:39:32,750 --> 01:39:33,083
is number

2102
01:39:33,125 --> 01:39:34,083
one is like, does

2103
01:39:34,083 --> 01:39:35,000
this actually give

2104
01:39:35,000 --> 01:39:36,333
me energy to do it

2105
01:39:36,333 --> 01:39:37,333
rather than guilt?

2106
01:39:37,333 --> 01:39:38,000
Like I'm not being

2107
01:39:38,000 --> 01:39:38,750
motivated by guilt.

2108
01:39:38,958 --> 01:39:42,583
The other is, does

2109
01:39:42,583 --> 01:39:43,666
it remotely look

2110
01:39:43,666 --> 01:39:44,083
like something

2111
01:39:44,083 --> 01:39:44,583
Jesus would

2112
01:39:44,583 --> 01:39:44,833
have done?

2113
01:39:45,708 --> 01:39:47,541
"Go kill Jews"?

2114
01:39:47,583 --> 01:39:48,083
Well, no, that

2115
01:39:48,083 --> 01:39:48,583
doesn't look like

2116
01:39:48,583 --> 01:39:49,250
something Jesus

2117
01:39:49,250 --> 01:39:49,833
would do. That's

2118
01:39:50,083 --> 01:39:51,000
anathema. So,

2119
01:39:51,708 --> 01:39:53,083
but if it aligns

2120
01:39:53,083 --> 01:39:53,833
with Jesus and it

2121
01:39:53,833 --> 01:39:55,125
aligns with me,

2122
01:39:55,416 --> 01:39:56,833
then I ask then,

2123
01:39:56,958 --> 01:39:57,625
well, what

2124
01:39:57,625 --> 01:39:58,416
proportion? Like,

2125
01:39:58,416 --> 01:39:59,416
is this like, am I

2126
01:39:59,416 --> 01:40:00,125
going to dedicate

2127
01:40:00,125 --> 01:40:00,875
the rest of my life

2128
01:40:00,875 --> 01:40:01,708
to this or a few

2129
01:40:01,708 --> 01:40:02,750
hours a week? Or

2130
01:40:03,416 --> 01:40:04,625
20 minutes or

2131
01:40:04,625 --> 01:40:05,291
what's the right

2132
01:40:05,291 --> 01:40:06,291
proportion? So, is

2133
01:40:06,291 --> 01:40:07,375
it my good to do?

2134
01:40:07,666 --> 01:40:08,500
Is it good,

2135
01:40:08,750 --> 01:40:09,916
like Jesus,

2136
01:40:09,916 --> 01:40:10,916
and am I doing it

2137
01:40:10,916 --> 01:40:11,375
in the right

2138
01:40:11,375 --> 01:40:12,083
amount? Oh, and the

2139
01:40:12,083 --> 01:40:13,333
last one is, is

2140
01:40:13,333 --> 01:40:13,750
this the right

2141
01:40:13,750 --> 01:40:14,583
time? Like,

2142
01:40:14,583 --> 01:40:15,083
maybe this is

2143
01:40:15,083 --> 01:40:15,583
something that's

2144
01:40:15,583 --> 01:40:16,125
really good for me

2145
01:40:16,125 --> 01:40:17,458
to do, but not

2146
01:40:17,458 --> 01:40:18,791
right now.

2147
01:40:20,208 --> 01:40:21,125
I think the thing

2148
01:40:21,125 --> 01:40:21,791
that you're doing,

2149
01:40:21,833 --> 01:40:24,000
Eric, that is good

2150
01:40:24,208 --> 01:40:25,416
is you called this

2151
01:40:25,416 --> 01:40:26,166
group together.

2152
01:40:27,333 --> 01:40:28,083
That's the one

2153
01:40:28,083 --> 01:40:28,750
thing, Eric.

2154
01:40:29,458 --> 01:40:31,041
I'll take credit.

2155
01:40:31,541 --> 01:40:32,416
Let's look at what

2156
01:40:32,416 --> 01:40:33,041
we're doing right

2157
01:40:33,041 --> 01:40:34,208
now. Is this was

2158
01:40:34,208 --> 01:40:35,208
your idea towards

2159
01:40:35,208 --> 01:40:35,500
doing

2160
01:40:35,500 --> 01:40:36,333
something good?

2161
01:40:36,708 --> 01:40:37,875
And hopefully the

2162
01:40:37,875 --> 01:40:38,375
people who are

2163
01:40:38,375 --> 01:40:40,000
listening by it are

2164
01:40:40,041 --> 01:40:41,291
feeling blessed and

2165
01:40:41,291 --> 01:40:43,458
inspired by it. So,

2166
01:40:44,208 --> 01:40:47,375
yeah. I mean, I

2167
01:40:47,416 --> 01:40:47,958
can't see

2168
01:40:47,958 --> 01:40:48,958
this as bad.

2169
01:40:49,208 --> 01:40:51,041
To me, it's to me

2170
01:40:51,041 --> 01:40:52,750
is very simple.

2171
01:40:52,833 --> 01:40:53,958
Like the first

2172
01:40:54,416 --> 01:40:56,000
grave precept that

2173
01:40:56,041 --> 01:40:58,875
as a Zen person, I

2174
01:40:59,583 --> 01:41:00,500
have vowed

2175
01:41:00,958 --> 01:41:02,083
all lifetimes to

2176
01:41:02,083 --> 01:41:04,291
come to uphold is

2177
01:41:04,875 --> 01:41:07,791
not killing. And

2178
01:41:07,791 --> 01:41:09,458
killing takes so

2179
01:41:09,458 --> 01:41:10,250
many aspects,

2180
01:41:10,250 --> 01:41:10,708
not just the

2181
01:41:10,708 --> 01:41:11,500
literal taking of

2182
01:41:11,500 --> 01:41:12,333
life, but all the

2183
01:41:12,333 --> 01:41:13,333
parts of ourselves

2184
01:41:13,333 --> 01:41:13,875
and the parts of

2185
01:41:13,875 --> 01:41:14,708
our world and the

2186
01:41:14,750 --> 01:41:15,708
parts of our heart

2187
01:41:16,125 --> 01:41:17,208
that we try to

2188
01:41:17,416 --> 01:41:19,750
excise. So how do I

2189
01:41:20,041 --> 01:41:21,541
fully come to life

2190
01:41:21,791 --> 01:41:22,125
in any

2191
01:41:22,125 --> 01:41:23,083
moment? And how do I

2192
01:41:23,291 --> 01:41:25,125
help all that

2193
01:41:25,250 --> 01:41:26,208
exists around me to

2194
01:41:26,208 --> 01:41:27,875
fully come to life,

2195
01:41:27,916 --> 01:41:28,708
to fully be

2196
01:41:28,708 --> 01:41:31,416
present? That's

2197
01:41:31,416 --> 01:41:31,750
kind of the

2198
01:41:31,750 --> 01:41:33,583
first step. So, you

2199
01:41:33,583 --> 01:41:34,541
know, it's for me,

2200
01:41:34,541 --> 01:41:35,000
I think like,

2201
01:41:35,750 --> 01:41:36,666
here's some work to

2202
01:41:36,666 --> 01:41:37,416
do. Is this

2203
01:41:37,416 --> 01:41:38,416
my work to do?

2204
01:41:38,916 --> 01:41:40,083
Meaning like, am I

2205
01:41:40,125 --> 01:41:41,083
going? So it's not,

2206
01:41:41,083 --> 01:41:42,583
is it my good thing

2207
01:41:42,583 --> 01:41:43,125
to do? It's like,

2208
01:41:43,416 --> 01:41:44,416
is this what my

2209
01:41:44,416 --> 01:41:46,083
body and heart and

2210
01:41:46,083 --> 01:41:47,166
mind and all of me,

2211
01:41:48,375 --> 01:41:49,500
is this the fullest

2212
01:41:49,500 --> 01:41:50,041
expression

2213
01:41:50,375 --> 01:41:51,708
of this life

2214
01:41:52,666 --> 01:41:53,708
that I can imagine?

2215
01:41:53,833 --> 01:41:54,791
Yeah. Maybe,

2216
01:41:55,291 --> 01:41:55,791
hearing maybe

2217
01:41:55,791 --> 01:41:56,250
what's coming

2218
01:41:56,250 --> 01:41:58,125
around to what you

2219
01:41:58,125 --> 01:41:59,750
observed in a prior

2220
01:41:59,750 --> 01:42:00,250
podcast about

2221
01:42:00,250 --> 01:42:00,916
Merton's Prayer,

2222
01:42:00,916 --> 01:42:01,666
like you just,

2223
01:42:01,958 --> 01:42:02,625
hopefully the

2224
01:42:02,625 --> 01:42:03,916
desire to do good,

2225
01:42:03,916 --> 01:42:04,541
whether I'm doing

2226
01:42:04,541 --> 01:42:05,333
good or not,

2227
01:42:06,208 --> 01:42:06,708
hopefully that

2228
01:42:06,708 --> 01:42:07,041
counts for

2229
01:42:07,041 --> 01:42:08,750
something. And

2230
01:42:09,041 --> 01:42:09,833
maybe we leave it

2231
01:42:09,875 --> 01:42:10,666
and leave the rest

2232
01:42:10,666 --> 01:42:11,541
to God's grace

2233
01:42:11,541 --> 01:42:12,916
and allow God to

2234
01:42:12,916 --> 01:42:14,083
ultimately deliver

2235
01:42:14,083 --> 01:42:16,125
us from evil or the

2236
01:42:16,125 --> 01:42:17,166
evil one or

2237
01:42:18,166 --> 01:42:18,791
illusion,

2238
01:42:19,125 --> 01:42:19,708
what have you.

2239
01:42:20,416 --> 01:42:22,625
Yeah. And we do it

2240
01:42:22,625 --> 01:42:23,125
together.

2241
01:42:23,750 --> 01:42:24,583
We do it together.

2242
01:42:25,666 --> 01:42:26,208
There's an

2243
01:42:26,208 --> 01:42:26,875
important point.

2244
01:42:28,083 --> 01:42:29,000
Deliver us.

2245
01:42:29,000 --> 01:42:29,958
Deliver us.

2246
01:42:30,708 --> 01:42:31,000
Yeah.

2247
01:42:31,291 --> 01:42:32,041
Well, yeah.

2248
01:42:32,041 --> 01:42:32,208
That's very

2249
01:42:32,208 --> 01:42:32,833
interesting.

2250
01:42:32,875 --> 01:42:33,708
Yeah. And to

2251
01:42:34,041 --> 01:42:35,166
Brian's point, like

2252
01:42:35,166 --> 01:42:37,000
the good of us

2253
01:42:37,000 --> 01:42:37,708
coming together to

2254
01:42:37,708 --> 01:42:39,125
talk, if it is

2255
01:42:40,458 --> 01:42:41,458
bringing us

2256
01:42:41,791 --> 01:42:42,666
it's community.

2257
01:42:43,416 --> 01:42:43,583
It's

2258
01:42:43,583 --> 01:42:45,708
sharing. It's us.

2259
01:42:46,750 --> 01:42:47,250
Amen.

2260
01:42:47,541 --> 01:42:47,916
Amen.

2261
01:42:48,666 --> 01:42:49,375
Well, until next

2262
01:42:49,375 --> 01:42:50,250
time, my friends.