Helen Rol - Connectedness Coaching - Ep. 1: Coaching Leaders and Teams
Michael: [00:00:00] I'm Michael Hayward host of Coach On Your Shoulder, a podcast where we speak with executive coaches about their practice and how they help their clients solve challenges like yours.
This week's guest is someone I've been hoping to have on the podcast since the very beginning, Helen Rol joins from Connectedness Coaching and Helen is an HR professional who has experience working with teams. It's an area where I think we under invest at this point. But teams have become so crucial to success, whether it's for strategic projects or getting new processes in place. And I think you'll enjoy this conversation.
Listen through to the end, there are five main phases to the coaching of a team to get them to higher levels of performance. And I think that's the key here is to have a systematic progression when you're working with a team.
Okay. [00:01:00] So we can jump right in so you've had a successful career in human resources. You've worked all over the world done some really interesting things. Why did you choose to become a coach?
Helen: Interesting question. Throughout my career, I think the theme has always been around development. Around potential, around people really shining in whatever they're good at.
And a key piece in me becoming a coach is helping people to really find and shine their own brilliance, so to speak.
Michael: What makes you special as a coach?
Helen: You hope that there's something that makes you special, but from feedback directly from my clients, and when I say clients, that is leaders from all levels and organizations I think a couple of the key things that come up are building a true connection, which is really important.
[00:02:00] Having a level of chemistry, a level of aliveness, having some good resonance in the meetings. And then , it's, bringing a lot to the table. In my coach training, we called it fierce courage, but it's really your ability to bring to the table anything and everything that the client needs to have their own discoveries.
And so I think those are a couple of things that make me unique. I think besides that, my entire career has been in corporate functions. And what I always like to say is that I bring. Some practicality to the table. Truly things that people can apply in their workplace and in their leadership practice right away.
Michael: So you have an interesting mix of clients. How do you explore with a client what it really is that they need coaching on?
Helen: What we usually say is you coach the client and not the problem. So it's really about the unique person that is in front of you. And [00:03:00] they need different things.
Everybody has their unique needs and whether they need, I don't know, sometimes a soft landing place, but also a mirror or someone the challenges them you need to be able to bring that to the table. And so that's what we try to flesh out when we start working together and start our coaching engagement.
For me, the key is: coaching works for people that want to do either things differently or want to do different things.
Helen: What that exactly is sometimes the coachee doesn't really know. And we explore that together by looking at: what are some of their core motivators? What are their values? What do they want out of life? And where are they now? What do they want to achieve? And see what that gap looks like and how we can support moving them from A to B.
Michael: In my experience quite often individuals will come saying that they would like some help with a specific challenge that they're dealing with. But when we scratch under the surface, what we discover is the [00:04:00] first thing they say is almost never the thing they really want help with, that there's something hiding behind that.
I'm curious, when you start working with a team, is there a similar dynamic ?
Helen: I think it works very much the same way, and usually when you work with a team there is a client who initiates the coaching engagement and that's typically where our journey starts.
And it's really around fully understanding what the core objective is of the person initiating the engagement. Oftentimes it's a more senior leader. Okay. Or it is the leader of the team that initiates that engagement.
And it's really a co- discovery around, okay, so where do we want to go? What is it that you want? for this team, what's needed? As you go along, just like with individual clients, there are often a lot of issues and challenges and some beliefs that[00:05:00] are close to the surface that actually are more important to address than the initial issue that was raised.
Michael: I'm particularly interested in the beliefs thing, what's going on there. What do you find?
Helen: A good example would probably be around generational challenges, generational differences, whereby with more senior leaders from a generation that has been in the workplace a little bit longer the belief that people that have just entered the workplace are not as loyal, are not as dedicated, are not as hardworking as their own generation, and therefore they're not contributing as they should be contributing, or are not as engaged as themselves. And so those are some core beliefs that need to be challenged, right? And need to be addressed and need to be worked through to see, is it really this that's going on or [00:06:00] is it differences in communication style, differences in resolution style, differences in approach to tasks. So that would be an example of a belief that can get in the way.
Helen: One of the examples that I would like to bring in that creates challenges in teams these days is the hybrid or remote working environment, , more so than in the past. And I'm not saying that those are overcomable, but for leaders, it really means a shift in how they lead teams.
So if you feel that you're putting everything into your project, you deliver on time and you have the sense that others do not, and you don't have any visibility, no relationship to that person yeah, tension can get high.
Michael: And so that's amplified by the fact that we don't see people the way we once did when we were in the office.
Helen: Exactly. And this doesn't mean that remote teams and virtual teams cannot [00:07:00] work. They can work very well, but it's a way of interacting with each other, which would pressure on leaders to lead things differently.
Michael: Makes sense. Let's pull back for a second and actually talk about teams because there are different types of teams.
So let's talk about the different types of teams and what that means when you're getting into a coaching relationship or a performance optimization kind of relationship.
Helen: When you talk about team versus a group of people, I think it's really important to understand that a team in order to be a team has a shared purpose and are interdependent on each other.
So that's what we would qualify as a team. Teams are either in existence and they continue to exist, these are functions in organizations that are needed on an ongoing basis. That would be your accounts payable team, for instance, that would be your human resources team. Other teams are brought in existence for [00:08:00] a specific purpose, often for a specific amount of time and really to deliver to a piece of work.
I would call them project teams. So they have a defined objective. They have usually a defined amount of time to reach that objective. And so they get together based on certain skill sets that they bring to the table.
By the way, as we're looking at the way in which the teams and teamwork is evolving, the way that organizations are evolving, the research will say that teams will become more and more based on skills and they'll be put together quickly and they'll just be disbanded quite quickly and teams get together based on their complementary skill sets in order to complete a task.
Michael: Yeah, that's more, I guess that's more and more common. So let's talk about project teams. What are the most common things that you're brought in for when it comes time to work with a project team?
Helen: I think in [00:09:00] general, when you look at the environment, the way that the world is going, there's so many changes. Organizational change is becoming the norm. People need to continuously adapt. It's technology change. So there's, already a lot more that comes at people on a regular basis. And there's a lot of pressure, especially on project teams, to perform quickly. And so a team coach would help the leader in, navigating those challenges. It's super complex and really fast changing helps develop better processes of decision making, communication, organizing work sometimes.
A coach can help teams work more effectively with other teams. And really ensure that they work towards driving high value for the organization.
Michael: So what do you mean by high value? Can you illustrate that with an example?
Helen: When I say high value, it's really for the team [00:10:00] to deliver to the key mandate in a way that serves the organization best.
So it is to stay within their project resources, their time be as highly effective as possible.
Michael: How do you measure effectiveness with a team? How do you know? At the end of the project or at the end of your engagement with a team that it worked?
Helen: That's a really good question. And it's going to always be slightly intangible in some instances, as is with regular coaching. But first and foremost, is the team mandate and team objective achieved? Is it achieved within the goal? So that would be your typical project measurement. Did we stay on budget on time? And did we deliver the quality that was expected of us?
I think other measurements from that perspective are the more intangible ones throughout the process, it's engagement of the people, it is their level of trust [00:11:00] in each other, it is their ability to deliver to the team to the best of their ability each and every day. It is engagement, and engagement would be measured in terms of people's willingness to put in discretionary effort.
Michael: Yeah. The engagement aspect is intriguing. I don't think I've been in an organization as a senior leader that didn't have a conversation about employee engagement and why we're not getting as much as we think we should.
And everybody wants to have, social events and go bowling
and have contests and I think most of these things get thrown at the HR department to say, make it so.
Helen: True. With my HR background. I definitely hear you there.
Michael: What's your feeling on the impact of a successful project team on employee engagement? Do people feel a stronger sense of engagement or loyalty to the company they work with when they work successfully on project teams [00:12:00] versus otherwise?
Helen: You know what it's a very interesting question because I don't think the silver bullet has been found yet, so I don't know, maybe we can get there together.
But working on projects, first and foremost especially if employees choose to work in projects is a big influence on their engagement level. So once they work on a project, it's important that they get their learning out of it, that they have the opportunity for additional exposure and that they get back into their old role or a new role after the project.
So I think that it is critical when people do projects, secondments, gigs, anything outside of their regular role to grow and advance their career that goes well.
Michael: Is there a big difference when you're working with a project team where the members are doing the project in addition to their full time job versus people who are seconded and [00:13:00] effectively for a short period of time, do nothing but this project?
Helen: Absolutely. The challenge with project teams that are part and parcel of a regular job is setting priorities right from the get go.
So making sure that whoever commissions the project team is clear on their expectation on deliverables, but also paves the way with the other leaders, with the employees day to day leader to ensure that time can be given to the project. That's where often the biggest rub is at. When I work with teams, a big part is spent on creating clarity and it's clarity around role and purpose, but also around organizational context and organizational buy in.
And so that becomes an additional piece to look at when we talk about people that work on project as they are also doing their own role.
Michael: Yeah, there's a lot of tension, right? Because whether you mean it or not, you've got a [00:14:00] matrix of responsibilities and not everybody performs well and not every leader is good at leading or negotiating , in a matrix environment to make sure that the team is able to spend the time they need to achieve the outcome.
Helen: Exactly. At the end of the day in a matrix organization the communication between both those leaders is extremely important. Naturally, we always gravitate towards the leader that has the solid line as they have the biggest say typically in what's important to the employee when it comes to career development, when it comes to compensation, and when it comes to other opportunities.
Michael: When you get engaged to work with a team, is it the team leader or the sponsor of the project that is more likely to reach out to you, or is it somebody on the project team who starts to say this thing is not starting off the way we need it to start off? We need help. Which do [00:15:00] you find happens most commonly?
Helen: I find most commonly it's the sponsor and a close second would be the leader of the project. Team coaching, as with individual coaching, sometimes still has a little bit of a ring to it that sounds like you don't know how to do your job entirely or you're not doing your job a hundred percent correct.
And unfortunately that's still something that lingers at times when you talk about the reputation of coaching. And just to make clear I don't do any remedial coaching. It's really around development and helping people and teams become more efficient.
Michael: There are both short term and long term benefits to coaching in the same way that there are short term benefits and long term benefits to doing a project and, and how that fits to our strategy.
What's the most obvious benefit that a team gets when they have a coach to help them work together versus when they try to do it themselves?
Helen: So, a) you have [00:16:00] someone that is not directly invested in the outcome
of the project. So there's an impartial person there that's solely focused on increasing the effectiveness of team without any hidden agendas regarding their own deliverables.
So I think that's a huge benefit. But the biggest benefit to a team is that they will have someone there that not only works with them while they are together, but also while they are apart, that will work with them as a team, but can also work with them individually, so everybody can tap into the support that helps them be most effective in the team, making the team more effective.
Michael: How long do you work on a team engagement? Do you ride along for the duration of the project or the, do these things have a sort of kick it off and then set them free kind of feeling to it? What's the right way or best way to engage?
Helen: You know what? And I think that I heard this with one of the other speakers, but [00:17:00] yes, an answer would be, it depends.
And it is dependent on the sponsor and it is dependent on how long the project is, what the deliverables are. But I would say it's almost where a leader can opt in or opt out on certain things. So when you look at the kickoff, it's really around in a very short amount of time, make people aware of communication styles and preferences, their conflict resolution approaches. The way that they interact with each other. So really focused on getting to know each other, creating that awareness so that you can bypass that from the perspective of the traditional forming, storming, norming approach or phases that a team would have to go through.
And it can stop there. It can stop there and the team can go from there, but most of the time and most beneficial is if there is a coach there that can work with them, like I said, both as a team while they're together. So that could be during team meetings, [00:18:00] helping the team stay true to their team norms, how they want to be together, how they want to interact together as well as with the individuals themselves.
Michael: Storming is a good word, generates some good stories, I suspect. What was the craziest scenario that you saw within a group where, they were on the verge of dysfunction, they could be saved?
Helen: That's a really good one. Yeah it's typically things like being totally different when a coach is there as compared to when the coach is not there.
Michael: So when the adults leave the room, the true behaviors come out.
Helen: That's, that would be one for sure.
Michael: How do you figure that out though? How do you go into a team setting? Or, talk to the individual members of a team and find out that's happening? Are team members likely to subtly point the finger at: that oh, no, it's her or it's him And here's what they're doing to undermine the team. Is there a sense that people will [00:19:00] point out the transgressor here? Or is it even more hidden than that and everybody circles the wagons and hides from you,
Helen: You know what it depends slightly on, on people's comfort level with the coach, but coaching is a hundred percent confidential. And that means that, as we're bound by the international coaching federations rules, for instance we would never convey that.
So some people are very comfortable in sharing that. But at the end of the day, that's just one individual perspective. So it is hearing a lot of the same things or similar things from multiple people that helps you triangulate a little bit on what the real problem might be. And so then it's up to the team coach to find ways in which you can test that as the team is together and see how that works.
Michael: How much of the coaching is skill related, helping a person up their game on something that's, maybe a operational skill versus [00:20:00] what you might think of as softer skills, communication or style or, attitudinal things.
Helen: Yeah I would say that for the most part it is around soft skills and behavioral change. That's where I focus my coaching energy on. I am a true believer in connecting people with their best resources to learn.
And I believe that I'm not necessarily the expert that has to support them when we talk about their functional skills. But I will be able to support them on the softer skills as well as some behavioral changes. Help people figure out how they want to be, how they can be more effective and efficient in their project setting
Michael: There must be some people on project teams that, look at that: Oh my God, here we go, we have a coach. It's like, why can't we just get on with doing our work? How do you make it possible for all types of people in a team to [00:21:00] actually believe that having a coach is a good thing.
Helen: You are absolutely right, and that does happen. I think really a lot of the tone is set when, as a coach you initially engage with the sponsor or the team leader. Now the sponsor is not necessarily directly always engaged with the team.
When I asked the question like what is everybody's perspective on working with a coach? I would say at least 50 percent of the time they do not know that individually because it's not something that has been expressly asked and, or, they have not had an opportunity to connect with that team direct.
For me, important when I start first initiating my engagement is to work with the direct leader to get a sense of where might there be some resistance. How are people looking at it? What is the reputation of coaching in the organization as a whole? So that's step one.
And then it is in the introduction to the team [00:22:00] where you set the stage for: what is the objective of a coach to be there? What are we trying to accomplish?
And then the third part really comes in when you speak with the individual team members and get a sense of their feel and how they can best utilize their time. But for me the way that I like to set the tone is we're really to talk to each and everybody individually and say, listen, at the end of the day, you need to identify how we can create most value for you.
And that will be filled in by each and every team member in a different way. So those that are not necessarily excited right away might fill that in differently than others, but still hoping to add value to them.
Michael: I'm guessing some people must hold back especially at the beginning, and not really want to engage with the coach for fear that, even though you said some really important things: one is it's confidential and all coaching relationships are confidential; there's also the sense that being vulnerable in any context in the [00:23:00] workplace is risky, confidential or otherwise, right? That, you might be evaluating them and they just don't know it.
So how do you draw each participant out individually? And then how do you get them to be comfortable like that with each other?
Helen: Baby steps. 100%.
I'm sure the term psychological safety will come up at some point because it's high on the radar, in society as a whole and especially in organizations. But I think it starts at the beginning and it starts on an individual level.
That's a little bit of your secret sauce, your differentiator as a coach. What is your ability as a coach to build that immediate connection and deepen that connection to make sure that people do feel comfortable in sharing what they need.
At the end of the day coaching, you'll get out of it what you'd put in. And people make choices. And so for me, all I do is create that [00:24:00] safe environment, create a space that feels safe enough for people to share. That's my goal.
Michael: We think about coaching engagements as, it could be a series of steps. It could be something that goes over a period of time.
It could be a series of principles. How do you think about coaching engagements with teams?
Helen: I was trained by the Global Team Coaching Institute that is founded by Peter Hawkins and David Clutterbuck - very well known authors and practitioners. And so when I look at Peter Hawkins model for team coaching, which is a systemic approach to team coaching, it's called the Five Disciplines Model.
And there's basically five phases. Or five areas that you focus on with a team. First and foremost, it's around commissioning. And that is really making sure that the team knows what is expected of them. What are they to [00:25:00] deliver to? How is the contract set up with the organization? What are they there to do?
The second part is really around clarity in their purpose, goals, objectives, roles, accountabilities so that people know and understand what each and every individual role contributes.
The third area that we focus on is really around the team dynamics, and it's like interpersonal and team dynamics, team culture, not only in the clarifying area and in the commissioning phase, like what are we contributing to, but it really how do we need to be as a team together? How do we need to operate to ensure that we can bring our best to the table and meet our objectives?
The fourth area is how Is this team embedded in the organization? Who are their critical stakeholders? And that can also actually be external, but how are they engaging with those critical stakeholder groups and what are the [00:26:00] relationships there and what's happening in that space to ensure that the team can meet their mandate.
And then finally, and this, I think is the ultimate goal of a team coach, it's really around learning and making sure that the team collectively learns from what's going on, collectively learns from the coaching and takes that on as a core accountability from the team in itself.
Michael: That's fascinating, and I want to dig into those five core areas a little bit more. We'll do that in our next conversation because that's a pretty interesting and deeper conversation.
Thanks Helen.
Helen: Me and I appreciate the discussion.
Michael: You've been listening to Coach On Your Shoulder. I'm Michael Hayward. Coach On Your Shoulder is a weekly podcast that you can subscribe to at all the finest podcast outlets. Coach On Your Shoulder is co-produced by Melissa Simmons of Luminology.
If you have questions about finding a coach, or how you can get the most of a coaching relationship, drop us a line. We always love to hear from listeners like you.
Michael: [00:00:00] I'm Michael Hayward host of Coach On Your Shoulder, a podcast where we speak with executive coaches about their practice and how they help their clients solve challenges like yours.
This week's guest is someone I've been hoping to have on the podcast since the very beginning, Helen Rol joins from Connectedness Coaching and Helen is an HR professional who has experience working with teams. It's an area where I think we under invest at this point. But teams have become so crucial to success, whether it's for strategic projects or getting new processes in place. And I think you'll enjoy this conversation.
Listen through to the end, there are five main phases to the coaching of a team to get them to higher levels of performance. And I think that's the key here is to have a systematic progression when you're working with a team.
Okay. [00:01:00] So we can jump right in so you've had a successful career in human resources. You've worked all over the world done some really interesting things. Why did you choose to become a coach?
Helen: Interesting question. Throughout my career, I think the theme has always been around development. Around potential, around people really shining in whatever they're good at.
And a key piece in me becoming a coach is helping people to really find and shine their own brilliance, so to speak.
Michael: What makes you special as a coach?
Helen: You hope that there's something that makes you special, but from feedback directly from my clients, and when I say clients, that is leaders from all levels and organizations I think a couple of the key things that come up are building a true connection, which is really important.
[00:02:00] Having a level of chemistry, a level of aliveness, having some good resonance in the meetings. And then , it's, bringing a lot to the table. In my coach training, we called it fierce courage, but it's really your ability to bring to the table anything and everything that the client needs to have their own discoveries.
And so I think those are a couple of things that make me unique. I think besides that, my entire career has been in corporate functions. And what I always like to say is that I bring. Some practicality to the table. Truly things that people can apply in their workplace and in their leadership practice right away.
Michael: So you have an interesting mix of clients. How do you explore with a client what it really is that they need coaching on?
Helen: What we usually say is you coach the client and not the problem. So it's really about the unique person that is in front of you. And [00:03:00] they need different things.
Everybody has their unique needs and whether they need, I don't know, sometimes a soft landing place, but also a mirror or someone the challenges them you need to be able to bring that to the table. And so that's what we try to flesh out when we start working together and start our coaching engagement.
For me, the key is: coaching works for people that want to do either things differently or want to do different things.
Helen: What that exactly is sometimes the coachee doesn't really know. And we explore that together by looking at: what are some of their core motivators? What are their values? What do they want out of life? And where are they now? What do they want to achieve? And see what that gap looks like and how we can support moving them from A to B.
Michael: In my experience quite often individuals will come saying that they would like some help with a specific challenge that they're dealing with. But when we scratch under the surface, what we discover is the [00:04:00] first thing they say is almost never the thing they really want help with, that there's something hiding behind that.
I'm curious, when you start working with a team, is there a similar dynamic ?
Helen: I think it works very much the same way, and usually when you work with a team there is a client who initiates the coaching engagement and that's typically where our journey starts.
And it's really around fully understanding what the core objective is of the person initiating the engagement. Oftentimes it's a more senior leader. Okay. Or it is the leader of the team that initiates that engagement.
And it's really a co- discovery around, okay, so where do we want to go? What is it that you want? for this team, what's needed? As you go along, just like with individual clients, there are often a lot of issues and challenges and some beliefs that[00:05:00] are close to the surface that actually are more important to address than the initial issue that was raised.
Michael: I'm particularly interested in the beliefs thing, what's going on there. What do you find?
Helen: A good example would probably be around generational challenges, generational differences, whereby with more senior leaders from a generation that has been in the workplace a little bit longer the belief that people that have just entered the workplace are not as loyal, are not as dedicated, are not as hardworking as their own generation, and therefore they're not contributing as they should be contributing, or are not as engaged as themselves. And so those are some core beliefs that need to be challenged, right? And need to be addressed and need to be worked through to see, is it really this that's going on or [00:06:00] is it differences in communication style, differences in resolution style, differences in approach to tasks. So that would be an example of a belief that can get in the way.
Helen: One of the examples that I would like to bring in that creates challenges in teams these days is the hybrid or remote working environment, , more so than in the past. And I'm not saying that those are overcomable, but for leaders, it really means a shift in how they lead teams.
So if you feel that you're putting everything into your project, you deliver on time and you have the sense that others do not, and you don't have any visibility, no relationship to that person yeah, tension can get high.
Michael: And so that's amplified by the fact that we don't see people the way we once did when we were in the office.
Helen: Exactly. And this doesn't mean that remote teams and virtual teams cannot [00:07:00] work. They can work very well, but it's a way of interacting with each other, which would pressure on leaders to lead things differently.
Michael: Makes sense. Let's pull back for a second and actually talk about teams because there are different types of teams.
So let's talk about the different types of teams and what that means when you're getting into a coaching relationship or a performance optimization kind of relationship.
Helen: When you talk about team versus a group of people, I think it's really important to understand that a team in order to be a team has a shared purpose and are interdependent on each other.
So that's what we would qualify as a team. Teams are either in existence and they continue to exist, these are functions in organizations that are needed on an ongoing basis. That would be your accounts payable team, for instance, that would be your human resources team. Other teams are brought in existence for [00:08:00] a specific purpose, often for a specific amount of time and really to deliver to a piece of work.
I would call them project teams. So they have a defined objective. They have usually a defined amount of time to reach that objective. And so they get together based on certain skill sets that they bring to the table.
By the way, as we're looking at the way in which the teams and teamwork is evolving, the way that organizations are evolving, the research will say that teams will become more and more based on skills and they'll be put together quickly and they'll just be disbanded quite quickly and teams get together based on their complementary skill sets in order to complete a task.
Michael: Yeah, that's more, I guess that's more and more common. So let's talk about project teams. What are the most common things that you're brought in for when it comes time to work with a project team?
Helen: I think in [00:09:00] general, when you look at the environment, the way that the world is going, there's so many changes. Organizational change is becoming the norm. People need to continuously adapt. It's technology change. So there's, already a lot more that comes at people on a regular basis. And there's a lot of pressure, especially on project teams, to perform quickly. And so a team coach would help the leader in, navigating those challenges. It's super complex and really fast changing helps develop better processes of decision making, communication, organizing work sometimes.
A coach can help teams work more effectively with other teams. And really ensure that they work towards driving high value for the organization.
Michael: So what do you mean by high value? Can you illustrate that with an example?
Helen: When I say high value, it's really for the team [00:10:00] to deliver to the key mandate in a way that serves the organization best.
So it is to stay within their project resources, their time be as highly effective as possible.
Michael: How do you measure effectiveness with a team? How do you know? At the end of the project or at the end of your engagement with a team that it worked?
Helen: That's a really good question. And it's going to always be slightly intangible in some instances, as is with regular coaching. But first and foremost, is the team mandate and team objective achieved? Is it achieved within the goal? So that would be your typical project measurement. Did we stay on budget on time? And did we deliver the quality that was expected of us?
I think other measurements from that perspective are the more intangible ones throughout the process, it's engagement of the people, it is their level of trust [00:11:00] in each other, it is their ability to deliver to the team to the best of their ability each and every day. It is engagement, and engagement would be measured in terms of people's willingness to put in discretionary effort.
Michael: Yeah. The engagement aspect is intriguing. I don't think I've been in an organization as a senior leader that didn't have a conversation about employee engagement and why we're not getting as much as we think we should.
And everybody wants to have, social events and go bowling
and have contests and I think most of these things get thrown at the HR department to say, make it so.
Helen: True. With my HR background. I definitely hear you there.
Michael: What's your feeling on the impact of a successful project team on employee engagement? Do people feel a stronger sense of engagement or loyalty to the company they work with when they work successfully on project teams [00:12:00] versus otherwise?
Helen: You know what it's a very interesting question because I don't think the silver bullet has been found yet, so I don't know, maybe we can get there together.
But working on projects, first and foremost especially if employees choose to work in projects is a big influence on their engagement level. So once they work on a project, it's important that they get their learning out of it, that they have the opportunity for additional exposure and that they get back into their old role or a new role after the project.
So I think that it is critical when people do projects, secondments, gigs, anything outside of their regular role to grow and advance their career that goes well.
Michael: Is there a big difference when you're working with a project team where the members are doing the project in addition to their full time job versus people who are seconded and [00:13:00] effectively for a short period of time, do nothing but this project?
Helen: Absolutely. The challenge with project teams that are part and parcel of a regular job is setting priorities right from the get go.
So making sure that whoever commissions the project team is clear on their expectation on deliverables, but also paves the way with the other leaders, with the employees day to day leader to ensure that time can be given to the project. That's where often the biggest rub is at. When I work with teams, a big part is spent on creating clarity and it's clarity around role and purpose, but also around organizational context and organizational buy in.
And so that becomes an additional piece to look at when we talk about people that work on project as they are also doing their own role.
Michael: Yeah, there's a lot of tension, right? Because whether you mean it or not, you've got a [00:14:00] matrix of responsibilities and not everybody performs well and not every leader is good at leading or negotiating , in a matrix environment to make sure that the team is able to spend the time they need to achieve the outcome.
Helen: Exactly. At the end of the day in a matrix organization the communication between both those leaders is extremely important. Naturally, we always gravitate towards the leader that has the solid line as they have the biggest say typically in what's important to the employee when it comes to career development, when it comes to compensation, and when it comes to other opportunities.
Michael: When you get engaged to work with a team, is it the team leader or the sponsor of the project that is more likely to reach out to you, or is it somebody on the project team who starts to say this thing is not starting off the way we need it to start off? We need help. Which do [00:15:00] you find happens most commonly?
Helen: I find most commonly it's the sponsor and a close second would be the leader of the project. Team coaching, as with individual coaching, sometimes still has a little bit of a ring to it that sounds like you don't know how to do your job entirely or you're not doing your job a hundred percent correct.
And unfortunately that's still something that lingers at times when you talk about the reputation of coaching. And just to make clear I don't do any remedial coaching. It's really around development and helping people and teams become more efficient.
Michael: There are both short term and long term benefits to coaching in the same way that there are short term benefits and long term benefits to doing a project and, and how that fits to our strategy.
What's the most obvious benefit that a team gets when they have a coach to help them work together versus when they try to do it themselves?
Helen: So, a) you have [00:16:00] someone that is not directly invested in the outcome
of the project. So there's an impartial person there that's solely focused on increasing the effectiveness of team without any hidden agendas regarding their own deliverables.
So I think that's a huge benefit. But the biggest benefit to a team is that they will have someone there that not only works with them while they are together, but also while they are apart, that will work with them as a team, but can also work with them individually, so everybody can tap into the support that helps them be most effective in the team, making the team more effective.
Michael: How long do you work on a team engagement? Do you ride along for the duration of the project or the, do these things have a sort of kick it off and then set them free kind of feeling to it? What's the right way or best way to engage?
Helen: You know what? And I think that I heard this with one of the other speakers, but [00:17:00] yes, an answer would be, it depends.
And it is dependent on the sponsor and it is dependent on how long the project is, what the deliverables are. But I would say it's almost where a leader can opt in or opt out on certain things. So when you look at the kickoff, it's really around in a very short amount of time, make people aware of communication styles and preferences, their conflict resolution approaches. The way that they interact with each other. So really focused on getting to know each other, creating that awareness so that you can bypass that from the perspective of the traditional forming, storming, norming approach or phases that a team would have to go through.
And it can stop there. It can stop there and the team can go from there, but most of the time and most beneficial is if there is a coach there that can work with them, like I said, both as a team while they're together. So that could be during team meetings, [00:18:00] helping the team stay true to their team norms, how they want to be together, how they want to interact together as well as with the individuals themselves.
Michael: Storming is a good word, generates some good stories, I suspect. What was the craziest scenario that you saw within a group where, they were on the verge of dysfunction, they could be saved?
Helen: That's a really good one. Yeah it's typically things like being totally different when a coach is there as compared to when the coach is not there.
Michael: So when the adults leave the room, the true behaviors come out.
Helen: That's, that would be one for sure.
Michael: How do you figure that out though? How do you go into a team setting? Or, talk to the individual members of a team and find out that's happening? Are team members likely to subtly point the finger at: that oh, no, it's her or it's him And here's what they're doing to undermine the team. Is there a sense that people will [00:19:00] point out the transgressor here? Or is it even more hidden than that and everybody circles the wagons and hides from you,
Helen: You know what it depends slightly on, on people's comfort level with the coach, but coaching is a hundred percent confidential. And that means that, as we're bound by the international coaching federations rules, for instance we would never convey that.
So some people are very comfortable in sharing that. But at the end of the day, that's just one individual perspective. So it is hearing a lot of the same things or similar things from multiple people that helps you triangulate a little bit on what the real problem might be. And so then it's up to the team coach to find ways in which you can test that as the team is together and see how that works.
Michael: How much of the coaching is skill related, helping a person up their game on something that's, maybe a operational skill versus [00:20:00] what you might think of as softer skills, communication or style or, attitudinal things.
Helen: Yeah I would say that for the most part it is around soft skills and behavioral change. That's where I focus my coaching energy on. I am a true believer in connecting people with their best resources to learn.
And I believe that I'm not necessarily the expert that has to support them when we talk about their functional skills. But I will be able to support them on the softer skills as well as some behavioral changes. Help people figure out how they want to be, how they can be more effective and efficient in their project setting
Michael: There must be some people on project teams that, look at that: Oh my God, here we go, we have a coach. It's like, why can't we just get on with doing our work? How do you make it possible for all types of people in a team to [00:21:00] actually believe that having a coach is a good thing.
Helen: You are absolutely right, and that does happen. I think really a lot of the tone is set when, as a coach you initially engage with the sponsor or the team leader. Now the sponsor is not necessarily directly always engaged with the team.
When I asked the question like what is everybody's perspective on working with a coach? I would say at least 50 percent of the time they do not know that individually because it's not something that has been expressly asked and, or, they have not had an opportunity to connect with that team direct.
For me, important when I start first initiating my engagement is to work with the direct leader to get a sense of where might there be some resistance. How are people looking at it? What is the reputation of coaching in the organization as a whole? So that's step one.
And then it is in the introduction to the team [00:22:00] where you set the stage for: what is the objective of a coach to be there? What are we trying to accomplish?
And then the third part really comes in when you speak with the individual team members and get a sense of their feel and how they can best utilize their time. But for me the way that I like to set the tone is we're really to talk to each and everybody individually and say, listen, at the end of the day, you need to identify how we can create most value for you.
And that will be filled in by each and every team member in a different way. So those that are not necessarily excited right away might fill that in differently than others, but still hoping to add value to them.
Michael: I'm guessing some people must hold back especially at the beginning, and not really want to engage with the coach for fear that, even though you said some really important things: one is it's confidential and all coaching relationships are confidential; there's also the sense that being vulnerable in any context in the [00:23:00] workplace is risky, confidential or otherwise, right? That, you might be evaluating them and they just don't know it.
So how do you draw each participant out individually? And then how do you get them to be comfortable like that with each other?
Helen: Baby steps. 100%.
I'm sure the term psychological safety will come up at some point because it's high on the radar, in society as a whole and especially in organizations. But I think it starts at the beginning and it starts on an individual level.
That's a little bit of your secret sauce, your differentiator as a coach. What is your ability as a coach to build that immediate connection and deepen that connection to make sure that people do feel comfortable in sharing what they need.
At the end of the day coaching, you'll get out of it what you'd put in. And people make choices. And so for me, all I do is create that [00:24:00] safe environment, create a space that feels safe enough for people to share. That's my goal.
Michael: We think about coaching engagements as, it could be a series of steps. It could be something that goes over a period of time.
It could be a series of principles. How do you think about coaching engagements with teams?
Helen: I was trained by the Global Team Coaching Institute that is founded by Peter Hawkins and David Clutterbuck - very well known authors and practitioners. And so when I look at Peter Hawkins model for team coaching, which is a systemic approach to team coaching, it's called the Five Disciplines Model.
And there's basically five phases. Or five areas that you focus on with a team. First and foremost, it's around commissioning. And that is really making sure that the team knows what is expected of them. What are they to [00:25:00] deliver to? How is the contract set up with the organization? What are they there to do?
The second part is really around clarity in their purpose, goals, objectives, roles, accountabilities so that people know and understand what each and every individual role contributes.
The third area that we focus on is really around the team dynamics, and it's like interpersonal and team dynamics, team culture, not only in the clarifying area and in the commissioning phase, like what are we contributing to, but it really how do we need to be as a team together? How do we need to operate to ensure that we can bring our best to the table and meet our objectives?
The fourth area is how Is this team embedded in the organization? Who are their critical stakeholders? And that can also actually be external, but how are they engaging with those critical stakeholder groups and what are the [00:26:00] relationships there and what's happening in that space to ensure that the team can meet their mandate.
And then finally, and this, I think is the ultimate goal of a team coach, it's really around learning and making sure that the team collectively learns from what's going on, collectively learns from the coaching and takes that on as a core accountability from the team in itself.
Michael: That's fascinating, and I want to dig into those five core areas a little bit more. We'll do that in our next conversation because that's a pretty interesting and deeper conversation.
Thanks Helen.
Helen: Me and I appreciate the discussion.
Michael: You've been listening to Coach On Your Shoulder. I'm Michael Hayward. Coach On Your Shoulder is a weekly podcast that you can subscribe to at all the finest podcast outlets. Coach On Your Shoulder is co-produced by Melissa Simmons of Luminology.
If you have questions about finding a coach, or how you can get the most of a coaching relationship, drop us a line. We always love to hear from listeners like you.
