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00:00:32.960Welcome back to Catechizing Conversations.
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00:00:39.039We're here in this podcast talking about the Westminster Confession of Faith.
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00:00:47.759And today we're talking about chapter five of Providence, joined again by Drew Brackbill.
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00:00:48.560Drew, welcome back.
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00:00:49.280It's been a while.
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00:00:52.159Yeah, it's been a couple months, I feel like.
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00:00:55.920And now we're not only in the middle of summer.
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00:00:57.600It feels like we're at the end of summer.
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00:00:59.600Summer can't end fast enough.
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00:01:03.280My power bill is out of control.
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00:01:09.599I can't believe it's almost August.
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00:01:11.599But how has summer been?
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00:01:12.560Any any plans?
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00:01:13.840What are you looking forward to doing?
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00:01:22.239I have uh a vacation coming up with all my all my buddies, just kind of a guys' weekend coming up in August that I'm really looking forward to.
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00:01:25.439Some of them, I think maybe they're regular listeners of our podcast.
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00:01:29.280So just know I I uh you know if you're if you're listening, guys, I'm excited.
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00:01:31.040They have something to talk about.
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00:01:34.159This is a way for me to test whether or not they're actually listening.
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00:01:34.879Yeah, exactly.
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00:01:38.400What was uh chapter five UCF about?
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00:01:44.319No, and then uh Catherine and I are going away to Canada for I think a whole week uh family.
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00:01:46.400So we always we we try to do that every year.
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00:01:48.000It's it's it's always fun.
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00:01:56.959Well, highlight for my summer so far has been I took Katie to a Philadelphia Phillies baseball game for her birthday, which sat doesn't even sound right.
00:01:57.840 -->
00:01:59.439Well the best baseball team.
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00:02:05.040I mean, but I mean the fact that that's what she asked for is like a gift for me too.
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00:02:06.719You gotta keep her there, Cisco.
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00:02:08.719Yeah, we're working on it.
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00:02:12.240But I caught a foul ball, so that was the highlight of my summer.
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00:02:22.639When I was proud of myself because I I've I used to play center field in Little League, and I was I think a pretty good center center fielder, but I wondered if I still had coordination.
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00:02:28.479So this ball came my way and I caught it, and that was the first for me in a major league baseball game.
00:02:28.800 -->
00:02:36.560And and then the the other highlight so far is my brother got me a ticket to the MLB All-Star Game in Philadelphia, which was really cool.
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00:02:39.759So that was like once in a lifetime thing.
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00:02:41.360I don't think I'll be back.
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00:02:49.599Yeah, it's well, I I was down there for work, I guess the week before the All-Star game, and there it was just advertised everywhere.
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00:02:49.919Yeah.
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00:02:52.000I wish I'd come in for uh work a week later.
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00:02:56.479Well, they had the World Cup, they had the All-Star Game, was it 250th?
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00:02:59.199There were celebrations going on for that.
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00:02:59.599Yeah.
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00:03:03.199So hop in hop in town, Philly.
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00:03:03.919Absolutely.
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00:03:06.240Yeah, it's good to go and good to leave.
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00:03:19.039My my son was with me, and I uh I don't eat much breakfast, uh, but I went into a breakfast place and got him a sandwich and me a bagel, and it was twenty dollars, and I said, I need to get out of this city.
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00:03:20.879Yeah, that sounds about right.
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00:03:28.879So, uh speaking of providence and and how the Lord uh leads all and guides all things, that's our subject today.
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00:03:39.599And since it's been a while, just a quick recap recap, we're going through the Westminster Confession of Faith, which was written in the 1640s, hammered out by the divines.
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00:03:50.560And and for clarification, that means those who have studied divinity, they were theologians and men of great competency where that's concerned, but they were merely men.
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00:03:55.759But they wrote this document, which we as Presbyterians affirm.
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00:04:02.960And some may question, well, why why do you hold to a confession instead of just saying we believe the Bible?
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00:04:07.919And and certainly the the Bible is over any confession.
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00:04:08.400Oh, yeah.
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00:04:10.960A good confession isn't a replacement for the Bible.
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00:04:17.839And Chad Van Dixhorn, who is the expert of experts on the Westminster Confession of Faith.
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00:04:22.160I think he's certainly the greatest living expert on the Absolutely, I would say so.
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00:04:23.600Uh he has a great illustration.
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00:04:34.959He says, Imagine driving to Yellowstone, picking up the park map at the entrance, and then just staying in the parking lot with the map, never seeing anything, never walking a single trail.
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00:04:39.600Of course, nobody d does that because the map is no substitute for the park.
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00:04:42.720And so the confession is like the map.
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00:05:04.480But plenty of people tried to read scripture without any map at all, end up missing the high points, unsure where the good trails are are at, where the water is, and so the confession is what we believe a tested, well-worn map to the terrain of scripture, drawn by people who walked it closely and cared about getting the paths right.
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00:05:06.879So a great illustration by Van Dixhorn.
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00:05:13.120And one of the reasons why we're we're working through this ancient document.
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00:05:18.959And today we come to chapter five, which I've been excited about.
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00:05:23.199Getting to this chapter, and we're here now, and it's of providence.
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00:05:27.279So I guess we start with what is providence?
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00:05:27.759Yeah.
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00:05:33.600Well, there's some scripture we can read, right, to give us an idea of the scriptural basis of providence, right?
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00:05:39.839Psalm 115.3, our God is in the heavens, he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.
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00:05:43.199And of course, we always go to Romans 8, Romans 8.28.
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00:05:49.279We know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
00:05:49.600 -->
00:05:55.600I think we've even quoted Ephesians 1.11 before in in prior chapters on these similar themes.
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00:06:03.199That we we would say we have an inheritance, we've been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.
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00:06:14.480And then I think this is probably my favorite verse about Providence is in Matthew, when Jesus says, Are not two sparrows sold for a penny, and not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your father?
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00:06:19.839Even the hairs of your head are numbered, fear not, therefore, you are of more value than many sparrows.
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00:06:23.680That's probably that's definitely in my top five Bible verses.
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00:06:24.319Yeah.
00:06:24.959 -->
00:06:30.959And certainly our understanding of providence springs from that verse.
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00:06:31.680Yeah.
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00:06:34.319Matthew 10, 29 to 31.
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00:06:55.759So I think pr Providence is the idea that God is continuously preserving, governing, and directing every creature and every event according to his eternal wisdom and his holy will, and we would say for his own glory.
00:06:56.319 -->
00:07:05.600And I think Providence pretty much every Christian is eventually going to have questions about what is God doing?
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00:07:07.519Why is God doing this?
00:07:08.160 -->
00:07:09.839Why do tragedies happen?
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00:07:13.600Is God in control when it seems like evil is prevailing?
00:07:13.759 -->
00:07:16.800You know, how should the unbeliever understand suffering?
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00:07:18.399We've talked before about the problem of evil.
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00:07:22.160Providence is also an answer to the problem of evil.
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00:07:35.439And I think another big question people have, right, is history moving towards some grand design, towards what we would say is God's purpose, or is it just unfolding through sheer chance?
00:07:36.399 -->
00:07:50.160And chapter five of the Westminster Confession is addressing these kind of questions, and it's laying out some of the reformed distinctives when it comes to our concepts of God's sovereignty and divine rule.
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00:08:03.199But you know, and we'll probably get to this in episode two, maybe, because we've been trying to divide these into two episodes per chapter, and sometimes that's worked out well, and sometimes we've got one really long episode and one pretty short one.
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00:08:07.040I think these will be two evenly balanced episodes.
00:08:07.279 -->
00:08:13.360But the doctrine of providence is not just some abstract theological concept.
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00:08:23.439I think perhaps of all the things we've talked about so far, this is the one with the most serious impact on Christians' everyday lives.
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00:08:23.920Right.
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00:08:27.040The doctrine of Providence is for the comfort of believers.
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00:08:27.519Right.
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00:08:35.840And I was thinking as we're preparing for this episode, other Christian traditions believe in Providence.
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00:08:36.320Yeah.
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00:08:49.519They may not have it defined, it may not be in confession like ours, but a broad view of Christian traditions, Christian traditions, excuse me, has an understanding of providence.
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00:08:50.720Yeah.
00:08:51.600 -->
00:08:53.360I mean, pretty much all of them do, right?
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00:08:53.919I would say.
00:08:54.639 -->
00:08:57.279And many of them are pretty close.
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00:08:57.679Yeah.
00:08:57.919 -->
00:08:59.039I mean, there's some variations.
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00:09:06.639We're not talking about open theology or some of the more extreme views, but most anybody, uh just somebody's gonna say God is in control.
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00:09:10.960We don't understand why things happen, but God is God.
00:09:11.600 -->
00:09:12.000Yeah.
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00:09:24.399I mean the the Catholics have a really interesting and robust kind of, and to my reformed mind, very different understanding of God's, you know, how God's goodness interacts with the problem of evil.
00:09:24.480 -->
00:09:34.080And and theirs centers much more on kind of questions of human free will, which we sort of don't worry about to the same degree.
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00:09:37.519I mean, we're gonna talk about free will and predestination instance.
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00:09:39.200It always comes up a lot.
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00:10:09.200But you know, they they would say that, you know, for example, when when God created the world, although he created it good, he didn't create it perfect, and so it's in a state of of journeying towards greater goodness, and that our you know, God's providence towards Christians is in drawing us towards our good and and you know, his ultimate good designs, which is uh like not that far off from what we believe, I don't think, but um, because they're also coming out of the Augustinian tradition.
00:10:09.279 -->
00:10:14.960I mean, they basically get their theology of providence from Augustine, which is where we get ours from.
00:10:15.200 -->
00:10:19.679And you know, this in the systematic details of how they would describe it, it's probably a little different.
00:10:19.759 -->
00:10:28.799But like the roots are coming from Augustine's ideas about you know the the earth being pregnant with with the promise of goodness, right?
00:10:29.039 -->
00:10:31.360The seeds of goodness are sown by God and that kind of thing.
00:10:32.480 -->
00:10:36.399So how does providence differ from creation?
00:10:36.639 -->
00:10:52.000Because if we're following the trajectory of the Westminster Confession, we've talked about just in the previous chapter about God speaking all things into existence, and we've talked about predestination and and so forth.
00:10:52.159 -->
00:10:56.240But how is Providence different than those?
00:10:56.879 -->
00:10:57.519Yeah.
00:10:57.919 -->
00:10:58.320Right.
00:10:58.480 -->
00:11:07.600Well, so you know, chapter if chapter four is about creation, chapter five is about providence, they're sort of I would say two sides of the same coin.
00:11:07.759 -->
00:11:13.679I th that might be putting a little bit too fine a point on it, but creation is asking, you know, how did the world begin?
00:11:13.759 -->
00:11:17.759How did God set everything into motion?
00:11:17.840 -->
00:11:23.200And then providence asks, how is the world continually sustained and governed?
00:11:23.519 -->
00:11:34.000And there are several differing theories of providence, even held by, you know, people in the sort of reformed camp, I guess.
00:11:34.159 -->
00:11:36.320I don't know if you could say deists are really in the reformed camp.
00:11:36.399 -->
00:11:40.720It's sort of a product of of the of post-Reformation philosophy.
00:11:41.120 -->
00:11:53.600But, you know, there are people who would say that the creation and providence are essentially the same thing, right?
00:11:53.759 -->
00:11:57.679That God is constantly creating every instant he is recreating the world.
00:11:57.840 -->
00:11:59.200That's what Jonathan Edwards thought.
00:11:59.279 -->
00:12:00.000We'll talk about that.
00:12:00.320 -->
00:12:17.440And then on the flip side of the coin, there are those who would say the deists would say that uh, you know God is sort of merely choosing not to destroy the world, that providence is is God's you know mere permission of the world to continue existing.
00:12:17.600 -->
00:12:18.879This is deism, right?
00:12:18.960 -->
00:12:30.960The the the uh divine watchmaker idea that that God created everything s with such intricate processes, set it set it all in motion, and then he sat back and just let it run.
00:12:31.360 -->
00:12:32.559And that's what we would disagree with.
00:12:32.799 -->
00:12:34.000Yeah, we disagree with both.
00:12:34.240 -->
00:12:41.200I mean, we we being Presbyterians would probably disagree with both of those worldviews, right?
00:12:41.279 -->
00:12:43.919The both deism and the continuous creation idea.
00:12:44.799 -->
00:12:50.720But that God upholds moment by moment uh this this universe.
00:12:50.960 -->
00:12:51.120Yeah.
00:12:51.440 -->
00:12:52.879And he is active within it.
00:12:53.279 -->
00:12:53.519Yeah.
00:12:53.600 -->
00:13:00.320I mean, so I'm gonna quote heavily from uh a Presbyterian uh theologian named Charles Hodge.
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00:13:06.480He was very active in at Princeton before Princeton got totally crazy.
00:13:06.720 -->
00:13:15.919And Hodge said that that deism is this view that those it's the view of those who assume that everything is to be referred to the original purpose of God.
00:13:16.159 -->
00:13:22.559He created all things and determined that they should continue in being according to the laws which he impressed upon them at the beginning.
00:13:22.720 -->
00:13:26.639There is no need, it is said, of supposing his continued intervention for their preservation.
00:13:26.879 -->
00:13:29.759It is enough that he does not will that they should cease to be.
00:13:29.919 -->
00:13:38.159This is the theory adopted by the remonstrants, which are like post-Darminian Dutch post-Calvinists, and generally by the deists of modern times.
00:13:38.399 -->
00:13:47.679According to this view, God is seated on his throne in the heavens a mere spectator of the world and of its operations, exerting no direct efficiency in sustaining the things which he has made.
00:13:47.840 -->
00:13:52.960And this was actually a surprisingly popular view among the intellectual elite in America.
00:13:53.200 -->
00:13:59.600You know, in the 17, late 1700s, several of the founding fathers were deists, or at least sympathetic to deist ideas.
00:13:59.759 -->
00:14:02.879Ben Franklin was had a flirtation with deism.
00:14:03.279 -->
00:14:08.480Thomas Jefferson was a dedicated deist.
00:14:09.360 -->
00:14:18.480So, you know, their their idea of God was, like I said, a divine watchmaker who's just an observer of creation, and he's he's not intervening.
00:14:18.639 -->
00:14:22.559And that's totally out of step with what scripture teaches.
00:14:22.799 -->
00:14:25.840But right, I mean, scripture teaches that God actively rules the world.
00:14:25.919 -->
00:14:30.720Like Psalm Psalm 104 says that when you hide your face, they are terrified.
00:14:30.879 -->
00:14:33.279When you take away their breath, they die and return to the dust.
00:14:33.360 -->
00:14:36.639When you send your spirit, they are created, and you renew the face of the ground.
00:14:36.799 -->
00:14:41.279That is not a picture of a God that is standing above and outside of creation.
00:14:41.360 -->
00:14:44.879That's a picture of a God that's actively involved.
00:14:45.440 -->
00:14:53.519I think deism is also totally incompatible with all of the times in scripture that God miraculously intervenes, right?
00:14:53.919 -->
00:15:14.000And Thomas Jefferson famously had this version of the Bible that he created for himself where he used a razor blade to like cut out, cut, cut up several different copies of the Bible and mushed them all together into one that had removed all the references to miracles because he thought it was incompatible with his his deistic conception of God.
00:15:14.240 -->
00:15:23.120So we we would repudiate that very strongly as being totally incompatible with scripture, and and I think that's it's thoroughly outside the the stream of orthodoxy.
00:15:23.440 -->
00:15:24.720Yeah, Hebrews 1, 3.
00:15:24.879 -->
00:15:32.720He is the radiance of the glory of God, the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power.
00:15:33.039 -->
00:15:33.440Yeah.
00:15:33.759 -->
00:15:41.200So our our conception of providence is that God is upholding the world actively.
00:15:41.600 -->
00:15:47.039And the in the language the confession is going to use is directs, disposes, and governs.
00:15:47.360 -->
00:15:48.000Yeah.
00:15:48.399 -->
00:15:50.559So all creatures.
00:15:50.960 -->
00:15:55.519He created everything by the word of his power, he's sustaining everything by the word of his power.
00:15:57.279 -->
00:16:12.480Then another distortion of, I think, the scripture is this idea on the on the flip side of deism, this idea that when God preserves things, that's the same type of act as creating things.
00:16:12.639 -->
00:16:15.279So what they would call continuous creation.
00:16:15.600 -->
00:16:28.720Hodge would say there's several different meanings of this term continued or constant creation, some of which are just references to the idea that as God created all things by the word of his power, so he also upholds all things by the word of his power, which is orthodox.
00:16:28.879 -->
00:16:31.039But there is a different sense of this term.
00:16:31.200 -->
00:16:46.480Sometimes by continued creation, it's meant that all efficiency is in God, that all effects are to be referred to his agency, as there was no cooperation in calling the world out of nothing, so there is no cooperation of second causes in its continuance and operations.
00:16:46.639 -->
00:16:54.639God creates, as it were, de novo at each instant of the universe, as at that moment it actually is.
00:16:55.279 -->
00:16:57.279De novo just means newly.
00:16:57.919 -->
00:17:01.519So this was the theory of providence that Jonathan Edwards held to.
00:17:02.559 -->
00:17:04.000No, I'm gonna criticize Edwards.
00:17:04.319 -->
00:17:05.440It's not really a criticism.
00:17:05.599 -->
00:17:13.039I just you know, Edwards had one real banger of a sermon, and he had some goofy beliefs about other stuff.
00:17:13.119 -->
00:17:14.480I mean, he was a congregationalist.
00:17:14.960 -->
00:17:18.319So you're not gonna be getting the new Jonathan Edwards study Bible that's coming out?
00:17:19.279 -->
00:17:19.759I'm kidding.
00:17:20.000 -->
00:17:20.319I don't think so.
00:17:21.359 -->
00:17:23.839I mean, like Edwards was spot on.
00:17:24.240 -->
00:17:26.880All the men that we're we're reading, are these are mere men.
00:17:27.119 -->
00:17:36.400So there's there's errors, there's truth, there's there's uh and he he was Edwards was sort of a also a philosopher.
00:17:36.640 -->
00:17:45.440He's best remembered as a preacher, but he he spent a lot of time writing philosophy too, and he's kind of a lost philosopher in that in some sense.
00:17:45.759 -->
00:17:52.000But you know, this idea of constant creation has some issues too, right?
00:17:52.160 -->
00:18:02.000As Hodge would say that creation, preservation, and government are in fact different, and identifying them together leads not only to confusion but to error.
00:18:02.240 -->
00:18:12.319Creation and preservation differ first, as the former is the calling into existence what before did not exist, and the latter is continuing or causing to continue what already has a being.
00:18:12.480 -->
00:18:18.079And secondly, in creation there is and can be no cooperation, which means God did it himself, right?
00:18:18.160 -->
00:18:20.960He didn't use the angels to create, right?
00:18:21.039 -->
00:18:23.039He didn't need our help to create.
00:18:23.440 -->
00:18:29.519But in preservation, there is a concursus of the first with second causes.
00:18:29.680 -->
00:18:32.559We'll get into this disc discussion of what concursus means.
00:18:32.720 -->
00:18:36.319It just means a concurrence, you know, a co-working.
00:18:36.480 -->
00:18:39.599And then in the Bible, therefore, the two things are never confounded.
00:18:39.759 -->
00:18:43.920God created all things, and by him all things consist.
00:18:44.160 -->
00:19:00.240And Hodge also describes Jonathan Edwards's sort of continuous creation idea as as like a basically like a kind of Christian pantheism, in which the heavens and earth, with all their changes and with all they contain, are but the pulsations of the universal life of God.
00:19:01.519 -->
00:19:14.799But we know that although we owe our existence to God, and his will is what continually sustains our own existence, nevertheless, created beings, we do have a continuity of existence apart from God's own existence.
00:19:16.880 -->
00:19:24.480We are our own beings with our own minds and wills, and you know, to say otherwise, would make would make God the author of sin.
00:19:24.960 -->
00:19:27.200So we got we can throw that one out.
00:19:27.759 -->
00:19:30.960We have deism, continuous creation, and then thirdly.
00:19:31.359 -->
00:19:38.079And then the third, probably the mo the most common orthodox position is this idea that's called concursus.
00:19:38.559 -->
00:19:46.960And this is the idea which has been adopted to a greater or lesser extent by Augustine and pretty much everybody that was a successor to his system of theology.
00:19:47.039 -->
00:19:53.359So most of the Western Church, right, including the scholastics, Thomas Aquinas, I think, thought this.
00:19:53.599 -->
00:19:59.359Most of the reformers, Luther, Calvin, thought, thought of Providence in this way, right?
00:19:59.440 -->
00:20:04.640That as Hodge would say, that no second cause can act until acted upon.
00:20:04.880 -->
00:20:08.000Nothing created can originate action.
00:20:08.400 -->
00:20:11.759And this is the most commonly held reformed position.
00:20:12.000 -->
00:20:25.759I think it in plain English, it's the idea, as we've discussed before, right, that God is at work in the ordinary means of human decisions because he's the primary cause, and then man's actions are the secondary causes.
00:20:26.000 -->
00:20:32.960And also natural laws and chance and the weather, you know, these are other secondary causes.
00:20:33.759 -->
00:20:38.960And then the theologian Herman Bavink phrased it this way when speaking of concursus.
00:20:39.039 -->
00:20:49.680He said that the constant teaching of the Christian church, nevertheless, has been that the two causes, though they are totally dependent on the primary cause, are at the same time also true and essential causes.
00:20:49.920 -->
00:20:54.559He's talking about separating secondary causes into two other types of causes.
00:20:54.799 -->
00:20:56.799This gets really complex really fast.
00:20:57.440 -->
00:21:06.400But with his almighty power, God makes possible every secondary cause and is present in it with his being at its beginning, progression, and end.
00:21:06.640 -->
00:21:12.240It is he who posits it and makes it move into action, precursus, right?
00:21:12.319 -->
00:21:17.680This is the starting the cause, and who further accompanies it in its working and leads it to its effect.
00:21:18.000 -->
00:21:19.039Concursus, right?
00:21:19.119 -->
00:21:27.119So concursus is the idea that there's some element of compatibilism at work between the human and the divine will.
00:21:27.359 -->
00:21:34.400Bavink quotes Philippians 2.13, he is at work in us both to will and to do for his good pleasure, right?
00:21:34.480 -->
00:21:36.319So God is working through us.
00:21:36.960 -->
00:21:42.240There are still, I think, some possible objections to this theory, right?
00:21:42.319 -->
00:21:48.880Not least of which is that it's like Hodge says this in his essay that I'm cribbing substantially from.
00:21:49.039 -->
00:21:52.240He would say that it's an attempt to explain the inexplainable, right?
00:21:52.319 -->
00:21:58.160There's some element of holy mystery at work in how God and man interact with separate wills.
00:21:58.720 -->
00:22:06.559But of all the Overly detailed, nerdy ways of conceiving of the distinction between God's work in creating, sustaining, and governing the world.
00:22:06.640 -->
00:22:08.799This is probably the most scriptural.
00:22:09.039 -->
00:22:23.839And then Hodge, for his part, would say that all we know and all we need to know is one, that God does govern all his creatures, and two, that his control over them is consistent with their nature and with his own infinite purity and excellence.
00:22:24.079 -->
00:22:28.160Which is a much simpler way of describing this.
00:22:29.119 -->
00:22:38.240But so those are kind of the three prevailing theories of providence of how God sustains creation.
00:22:39.759 -->
00:22:42.720And the simpler way is what the the uh confession says.
00:22:44.720 -->
00:22:45.680Who's ever said that?
00:22:45.759 -->
00:22:46.960That the confession is simple.
00:22:47.599 -->
00:22:53.440Well, I mean, the the confession is the summary, you know, of really big, hefty theological themes.
00:22:54.000 -->
00:23:19.440God, the creator of all things, doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by his most wise and holy providence, according to his infallible foreknowledge, and the free and immutable counsel of his own will, to the praise of the glory of his wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy.
00:23:20.559 -->
00:23:27.839So the confession doesn't stop at God upholds, he directs, he disposes, and he governs.
00:23:28.240 -->
00:23:31.200And so it's not in any passive sense.
00:23:31.359 -->
00:23:36.079He's actively steering, arranging, and ruling everything that happens.
00:23:36.480 -->
00:23:47.519And we see this, Paul, when he's preaching to in Athens, that God Himself gives all mankind life and breath and everything that in him we live and move and have our being.
00:23:48.400 -->
00:23:48.880Yeah.
00:23:49.200 -->
00:23:54.000The confession says God upholds, directs, disposes, and governs, right?
00:23:54.160 -->
00:24:06.400So that's kind of all creatures' actions and things from the greatest even to the least, by his most wise and holy providence, according to his infallible foreknowledge, and the free and immutable counsel of his own will.
00:24:06.799 -->
00:24:28.319So when we say that God upholds all things, we mean that God is not just the creator, he is the continual sustainer, every heartbeat, every child's first cry, every supernova, every electron moving around the nucleus of every atom continues because God wills it.
00:24:29.039 -->
00:24:32.799And when God governs all creatures, right?
00:24:40.079 -->
00:24:41.200Big picture stuff.
00:24:41.440 -->
00:24:45.119He governs every action, every event, every circumstance.
00:24:45.519 -->
00:24:48.000You know, not a sparrow can fall to the ground apart from him.
00:24:48.240 -->
00:24:53.680So and providence is for God's glory, right?
00:24:54.079 -->
00:25:04.640It says that he does all these things by the free and immutable counsel of his own will to the praise of the glory of his wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy.
00:25:04.960 -->
00:25:19.599So as we've said in uh at least once in in prior episodes, probably multiple times, the reformed presupposition about God's divine will is that human happiness isn't the ultimate end of reality.
00:25:19.839 -->
00:25:20.079Right?
00:25:20.400 -->
00:25:21.519We're not gods.
00:25:21.680 -->
00:25:22.559God is God.
00:25:22.799 -->
00:25:27.039The ultimate end towards which reality is oriented is to display God's glory.
00:25:27.359 -->
00:25:27.680Right.
00:25:27.920 -->
00:25:41.759So And yeah, and we're probably I'm probably jumping ahead here a little bit, but just to return to that Matthew 10 passage, which you said was one of your favorite, are not two sparrows sold for a penny, and not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your father.
00:25:42.000 -->
00:25:59.119Uh so the interpreters and and commentators have noted that the sparrow is one of the least significant creatures you can name, sold to for a coin, if it falls to the ground outside, it does not fall to the ground outside of God's act of oversight.
00:26:00.000 -->
00:26:07.440And then Jesus is going to tighten that argument even further when he says, even the hairs of your head are all numbered.
00:26:08.000 -->
00:26:19.680So the idea is if God numbers something as trivial and unnoticed as a hare or a sparrow, there is nothing too small to escape his governing hand.
00:26:20.000 -->
00:26:20.640Yeah.
00:26:22.079 -->
00:26:26.000And so Jesus actually arguing from the lesser to the greater.
00:26:26.240 -->
00:26:34.880If if God cares this much about a sparrow and a hare, things of seemingly no apparent consequence, then how much does he care for you?
00:26:35.119 -->
00:26:35.680Yeah.
00:26:41.759 -->
00:26:56.960And, you know, although we would say that human quote unquote human happiness is not God's goal, we know that our good is not opposed to his glory, right?
00:26:58.720 -->
00:27:06.400In Romans 8 28 through 30, it says we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
00:27:06.559 -->
00:27:13.279For those whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
00:27:13.359 -->
00:27:20.160And those whom he predestined, he also called, and those whom he called, he also justified, and those whom he justified, he also glorified.
00:27:20.319 -->
00:27:24.880So when we love God, we participate in glorifying him, and he glorifies us.
00:27:24.960 -->
00:27:28.319And we become co-heirs with Christ of God's glory and eternity.
00:27:28.640 -->
00:27:34.559So our good is not opposed to God's glory.
00:27:34.880 -->
00:27:35.039Yeah.
00:27:35.119 -->
00:27:38.880So when we talk about providence, we're not talking about superstition.
00:27:39.119 -->
00:27:39.359No.
00:27:39.599 -->
00:27:41.519We're not talking about fate.
00:27:42.079 -->
00:27:53.359Now you've studied Latin, and uh so is it true that providence comes from two Latin words, pro meaning before, and then video meaning to see?
00:27:53.839 -->
00:27:54.319I think so.
00:27:54.640 -->
00:28:05.279So it's but then it's not just foreknowledge, God seeing what will happen before it happens, it's God seeing before his own face in the in the sense of continual oversight.
00:28:05.680 -->
00:28:12.240God's total active government of everything he has made, and he is fully and completely aware of it all.
00:28:12.559 -->
00:28:12.960Yes.
00:28:13.279 -->
00:28:19.039So it is, it can be unsettling and providence can be an unsettling topic.
00:28:19.680 -->
00:28:22.640God sees all and God is active in all.
00:28:22.799 -->
00:28:27.119Then I know there's going to be some objections that come from that, and we'll and we'll get to some of that.
00:28:27.519 -->
00:28:31.200But we want to say up front here, or at least not up front, we're middle.
00:28:32.079 -->
00:28:33.599Up middle towards the end.
00:28:33.839 -->
00:28:37.200This is one of the most comforting doctrines in scripture.
00:28:37.599 -->
00:28:40.720Particularly go back to what Jesus said in Matthew 10.
00:28:40.960 -->
00:28:45.440The God who sees everything is the same God who cares.
00:28:45.920 -->
00:28:51.359The old spiritual, his eyes on the sparrow, and I know he watches me.
00:28:51.680 -->
00:28:54.400So it's it's it's comforting, it's rich.
00:28:55.359 -->
00:28:59.839And and you've spoken of both God ordaining the ends and the means.
00:29:00.160 -->
00:29:08.720Yeah, so I'm gonna read paragraph two here, as we're we're kind of moving into this discussion, or section two of the of chapter five of the confession.
00:29:08.960 -->
00:29:13.279Although in relation to the foreknowledge and decree of God, the first cause, right?
00:29:13.359 -->
00:29:17.440God is the first cause, all things come to pass immutably and infallibly.
00:29:17.599 -->
00:29:25.200Yet by the same providence, he orders them to fall out according to the nature of second causes, either necessarily, freely, or contingently.
00:29:25.440 -->
00:29:32.480And so we've we've we've discussed this actually in our episode on Predestination.
00:29:32.720 -->
00:29:35.440Well, yeah, I think it was on God's God's eternal decree.
00:29:36.079 -->
00:29:42.079We we kind of skipped ahead a little bit in that episode to help illustrate the theological points in those episodes.
00:29:42.240 -->
00:29:48.880But when we're talking about what we would call second causes, here's some examples of the second causes, right?
00:29:49.039 -->
00:29:51.759The ordinary means that God uses to carry out his will, right?
00:29:51.839 -->
00:29:54.640The rain falls and the crops grow, right?
00:29:54.799 -->
00:30:00.000A doctor heals patients, parents raise children in governments restrain evil.
00:30:00.160 -->
00:30:04.960All of these are God ordaining both the outcome and the process.
00:30:05.359 -->
00:30:08.799And crucially, we know that these secondary causes are real.
00:30:09.200 -->
00:30:11.039This is a, I think, a critical nuance.
00:30:11.119 -->
00:30:15.519The the divines, Westminster divines, rejected fatalism, right?
00:30:15.680 -->
00:30:20.240Fire really burns you, the laws of thermodynamic thermodynamics apply.
00:30:20.559 -->
00:30:27.119People really make decisions whether you know ordinarily follows a set pattern.
00:30:27.519 -->
00:30:35.599Human choices matter, but beneath it all, beneath all secondary causes, there stands the first cause of God.
00:30:36.480 -->
00:30:37.839And I have an illustration here.
00:30:38.000 -->
00:30:51.279This is maybe again another trite illustration, but when a novelist is writing a story, he controls the outcome of every chapter without kind of destroying, at least in the context of the story, the genuine actions of the characters.
00:30:51.440 -->
00:30:55.440So, like let's say Agatha Christie, for example, the great murder mystery novelist.
00:30:55.599 -->
00:30:57.440She's she's writing murder on the Orient Express.
00:30:57.519 -->
00:31:06.480She's controlling the outcome of the story from an area outside the reality that's experienced by the characters in the in the meta of the story.
00:31:06.960 -->
00:31:10.319But you can't say that she committed the murder on the Orient Express, right?
00:31:10.640 -->
00:31:14.880I'm not going to spoil the book for anyone who's wondering who did commit the murder on the Orient Express.
00:31:15.279 -->
00:31:25.279But Hercule Poirot, who's the detective in, I think, most, almost all of her of her famous stories, he solves the mystery because Christy wanted him to, right?
00:31:25.359 -->
00:31:29.200That was her objective in writing the story, was that Poirot would solve the mystery.
00:31:29.359 -->
00:31:37.599So I think maybe that's another trade example, but it's not totally out of step with how Presbyterians think about God, right?
00:31:37.680 -->
00:31:47.440We think of God as the author of a grand story, or you might say the weaver of a grand of a great tapestry in which we are participants, even though we can't perceive it in its fullness.
00:31:48.319 -->
00:31:52.480Ecclesiastes 3.11 says he has he hath made everything beautiful in its time.
00:31:52.640 -->
00:31:58.480Also, he has put eternity into man's heart, yet so that he cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end.
00:31:58.640 -->
00:32:01.839We are participants in this story without knowing how it's going to go.
00:32:02.000 -->
00:32:04.079To some degree, that is frightening, like you said.
00:32:04.240 -->
00:32:21.839To some degree, knowing that there is an author who has foreordained what will occur in our lives is a little disconcerting, but it shouldn't be if you believe that that author has your good in mind, which we believe that God does.
00:32:22.000 -->
00:32:22.160Right.
00:32:22.559 -->
00:32:28.720So I was reading Puritan commentator William Gage, who is also one of the authors of the Westminster Confession of Faith.
00:32:28.960 -->
00:32:36.160So William Gouge Gage, he said, divine providence extent extends itself to all things, even suffering and hardship.
00:32:36.400 -->
00:32:38.160And we're going to get to that.
00:32:39.680 -->
00:32:46.240But if you strip that away, the only alternative left is chance, fortune, and luck.
00:32:47.039 -->
00:32:47.359Right?
00:32:47.519 -->
00:32:57.359So if you strip away what we're talking about about God's providence, we have a universe where no one is watching, no one is governing, and there's no one to trust.
00:32:57.519 -->
00:33:02.480And so as you continue to look up, are we pronouncing William Gage or Gowt's name right?
00:33:02.720 -->
00:33:03.200He was British.
00:33:03.440 -->
00:33:03.839He was British.
00:33:04.240 -->
00:33:04.319Okay.
00:33:08.240 -->
00:33:19.279I was reading a sermon that he preached on providence, and it was in the aftermath of some calamities that happened, not only to him personally, but as a people corporately.
00:33:20.079 -->
00:33:25.039And he takes as his text Ezekiel 36.11.
00:33:25.519 -->
00:33:31.039And this matches this coincides with what you just quoted from Ecclesiastes 3.11.
00:33:31.680 -->
00:33:48.240Ezekiel 36.11 says, I will multiply on you man and beast, and they shall multiply and be fruitful, and I will cause you to be inhabited as in your former times, and will do more good to you than ever before.
00:33:48.480 -->
00:33:50.880Then you will know that I am the Lord.
00:33:51.119 -->
00:33:55.039And what did you figure out is a gauge or gouge?
00:33:55.359 -->
00:33:56.880I'm gonna guess that it's gouge.
00:33:57.359 -->
00:34:10.960What gouge says is because redemptive history hasn't reached its final day, we're meant to read our own moments, both the good and the bad alike, within that same framework.
00:34:11.280 -->
00:34:17.920God is still multiplying good and still working toward an appointed end.
00:34:18.960 -->
00:34:22.800And so he was reading Ezekiel 36, 11 as to the church.
00:34:23.039 -->
00:34:29.519And he was reading, I will do more good to you than I've ever done before as the day that is coming.
00:34:30.000 -->
00:34:44.079But he's saying in the midst of hardship, understanding God's providence, we have to understand what's happening with that knowledge that the best is still to come.
00:34:45.039 -->
00:34:55.199That God is working all things for his good, all those that love God according to his purpose, he's working and he's going to make all things beautiful in his time.
00:34:55.519 -->
00:35:04.079And I think that is in the midst of this another hard doctrine here of Providence, I I think that's where the comfort is.
00:35:04.480 -->
00:35:14.000Especially people who have gone through God's people that have gone through some horrific tragedies in life and and pains and deep grief.
00:35:14.800 -->
00:35:19.039That yes, God is going to make everything beautiful in his time.
00:35:19.519 -->
00:35:22.000In his time, too, is is the crucial thing.
00:35:22.880 -->
00:35:28.159We're not promised that life is going to be per se easy.
00:35:28.480 -->
00:35:28.960No, right?
00:35:29.119 -->
00:35:30.559No, Gallage would say it's heaven.
00:35:30.719 -->
00:35:30.800Yeah.
00:35:31.039 -->
00:35:32.960I'm gonna do more good to you than I've ever done before.
00:35:33.039 -->
00:35:33.519That's heaven.
00:35:33.760 -->
00:35:34.400Yeah.
00:35:36.639 -->
00:35:39.199But we are promised that God is working for our good.
00:35:39.360 -->
00:35:39.599Right.
00:35:39.760 -->
00:35:40.880For our ultimate good.
00:35:41.280 -->
00:35:46.960Which, of course, in the the modern American kind of idiom is like completely inconceivable, right?
00:35:47.039 -->
00:35:50.880Like if we're experiencing discomfort for a week, it's like the worst thing we've ever felt.
00:35:51.760 -->
00:36:09.440We're so used to to being essentially pampered and and coddled by society that like we can't really conceive of experiencing the providence of God in a way that involves our tragedy.
00:36:09.920 -->
00:36:20.719In fact, uh we're just remembering when Gouge preaches this sermon, it's in the aftermath of church building that collapses and dozens and dozens are killed and injured.
00:36:21.440 -->
00:36:26.800And so he's preaching on the providence of God in the in the aftermath of great tragedy.
00:36:27.039 -->
00:36:27.679Yeah.
00:36:28.800 -->
00:36:33.599So the providence of God is not something that we need to shrink back from or be ashamed of.
00:36:33.840 -->
00:36:43.039And I think on some of these hard topics we're often tempted to do that, but we need to get to the core of what it means scripturally, because this is where the real comfort is.
00:36:43.360 -->
00:36:55.920And I think, you know, to some degree, whether it's through, you know, ordinary means that make us happy or ordinary means that make us sad, right?
00:36:56.239 -->
00:36:59.039God is still working out his purposes.
00:36:59.199 -->
00:37:11.440We'll get into this more in probably what will become the second episode, but it's often hard to see the gloriousness of providence until much after the fact.
00:37:11.679 -->
00:37:12.320That's right, right?
00:37:12.400 -->
00:37:20.000Like when Joseph is sold into slavery by his brothers, it would probably be hard for him to trust that this was for the best.
00:37:20.079 -->
00:37:25.360And yet God used that to save many, you know, many, many lives.
00:37:25.920 -->
00:37:27.840Save people from famine and starvation.
00:37:28.079 -->
00:37:43.519So we perceive tragedy because we're limited by the temporality of our minds, we perceive tragedy very it's it dominates our consciousness when we're experiencing it.
00:37:43.760 -->
00:37:50.000And then after the fact, when the pain has passed, I think sometimes you can look back and see, oh, that was the hand of God.
00:37:50.639 -->
00:37:52.719I've seen that in my life many times.
00:37:52.880 -->
00:37:53.519Yeah.
00:37:53.840 -->
00:37:55.760At least, you know, a handful of times.
00:37:55.920 -->
00:38:00.000And you think of what David said, it was good that I was afflicted.
00:38:00.159 -->
00:38:00.320Yeah.
00:38:00.559 -->
00:38:03.920I mean, I don't think he's saying that as he's being afflicted, but as well.
00:38:04.079 -->
00:38:07.440No, it was after and reflection, in time of reflection.
00:38:07.760 -->
00:38:10.559As he's being afflicted, he's saying, Lord deliver me from my affliction.
00:38:11.280 -->
00:38:11.360Right.
00:38:12.480 -->
00:38:13.679Lord deliver me from my enemies.
00:38:13.840 -->
00:38:14.000Yeah.
00:38:14.480 -->
00:38:31.199And both of these things, the cry of the suffering Christian, you know, the cry of the psalmist in in anguish, and the gratitude of of you know, a mature look back on what you went through, those are both legitimate utterances, right?
00:38:31.360 -->
00:38:34.719We we call upon the name of the Lord in distress.
00:38:37.599 -->
00:38:40.960Because we trust that he's going to work everything for our good.
00:38:41.280 -->
00:38:41.760Right.
00:38:42.079 -->
00:38:47.599And uh so then paragraph three or section three talks about this is the shortest one.
00:38:47.760 -->
00:38:50.639So before we close, I think I want to address this.
00:38:50.800 -->
00:39:02.000It says, God in his ordinary providence maketh use of means, which is to say secondary causes, yet he is free to work without, above, and against them at his pleasure.
00:39:02.719 -->
00:39:11.920And so this is talking about how God can supernaturally intervene in in the the proceedings of the world that he's created.
00:39:12.239 -->
00:39:18.239And it's not you know hard for a kid who went through Sunday school to think of some miracles, right?
00:39:18.480 -->
00:39:23.039The parting of the Red Sea, sending the manna from heaven, virgin birth, the resurrection.
00:39:23.119 -->
00:39:25.519These are these are miracles, right?
00:39:25.840 -->
00:39:28.719But they're not outside of God's providence, right?
00:39:28.800 -->
00:39:31.360Yeah, his use of miracles never contradicts his providence.
00:39:31.440 -->
00:39:38.800It's not like he's thinking, oh, you know, I didn't actually want XYZ thing to happen to ABC people, so I'd better intervene and stop it, right?
00:39:38.960 -->
00:39:43.119This is just God revealing another mode of his government of the world.
00:39:43.440 -->
00:39:43.679Yeah.
00:39:43.920 -->
00:39:47.679So someone can be surprised that Presbyterians believe in miracles.
00:39:47.920 -->
00:39:48.239Yeah.
00:39:48.400 -->
00:39:51.519Well, I mean, we believe the Bible.
00:39:51.920 -->
00:39:53.519There's a lot of them in there.
00:39:54.480 -->
00:39:55.760God is God and he can do what he wants.
00:39:56.000 -->
00:39:57.280Yeah, God can do whatever he wants.
00:39:58.719 -->
00:39:59.760I mean, we do believe that.
00:39:59.840 -->
00:40:01.280We believe that God can do what he wants.
00:40:01.440 -->
00:40:08.159The the medieval had this really healthy debate going about whether God's limited by his own rules, right?
00:40:08.320 -->
00:40:13.519So so they had this concept of potential, they called it potentia ordinata, right?
00:40:13.599 -->
00:40:19.599His ordained power as contrasted with potentia absoluta, which was its absolute power.
00:40:19.840 -->
00:40:29.199And this ordained power idea describes the power that God exercises within the bounds of laws and natural orders and covenants that he's freely established.
00:40:29.440 -->
00:40:48.480And then, you know, the absolute power idea that's the medieval philosopher Dun Scotus and the scholastics, they thought of God's ability to do this uh absolute power is God's ability to do to do anything that doesn't involve a logical contradiction outside of those established rules that he's imposed on himself.
00:40:48.719 -->
00:40:59.519So, and I, you know, not to get into a long discussion on this topic, because it is it is a theological and philosophical topic that I don't understand that well.
00:40:59.679 -->
00:41:08.000A friend of mine who may or may not listen to the podcast, who's uh now a law professor, actually, is an expert on divine simplicity.
00:41:08.159 -->
00:41:10.000He's written journal articles about it.
00:41:10.159 -->
00:41:14.000And so if I uh am butchering this, I'm sure he'll correct me if he hears.
00:41:14.159 -->
00:41:19.679But in the reform tradition, we adhere to this idea that is called divine simplicity, right?
00:41:19.760 -->
00:41:27.440The idea that God is not merely possessed of the metaphysical quality of goodness, but he is the metaphysical quality of goodness.
00:41:27.599 -->
00:41:28.400He is goodness.
00:41:28.559 -->
00:41:31.199So his being and his attributes are indivisible.
00:41:32.000 -->
00:41:35.360And he is goodness, he is justice, he is love.
00:41:35.519 -->
00:41:51.280That's what the divines, the Westminster divines, meant when in chapter two, when they're talking about God's attributes in the Trinity, they say that God is a most pure spirit, invisible invisible without body parts, without body, comma, parts, comma, or passions, right?
00:41:51.440 -->
00:41:58.639So he is without parts, which means he is simple, right?
00:41:58.800 -->
00:41:59.599Divinely simple.
00:41:59.760 -->
00:42:06.079So if we carry forward that idea of divine simplicity, simplicity in this sense being a good thing, right?
00:42:06.159 -->
00:42:15.360It's not a dig at God's intelligence or something, we would say and then we apply it to the concept of potentia absoluta, the the absolute power.
00:42:16.000 -->
00:42:32.480God being the creator of the laws of reality, he's not per se bound by the laws of physical reality, but because he is rationality and because he is logic, therefore the laws of logic are a reflection of his own rational nature.
00:42:32.719 -->
00:42:36.239So, and because he's he's consistent, it doesn't change.
00:42:36.559 -->
00:42:39.440His actions and decrees are inherently logical.
00:42:40.079 -->
00:42:44.079And in other words, he can operate outside the rules of reality, right?
00:42:44.159 -->
00:42:46.800He can raise the dead, something that doesn't normally happen.
00:42:46.960 -->
00:42:57.039He can part oceans, something that doesn't normally happen, without logical contradiction, and this this does not in any way invalidate his providence.
00:42:57.280 -->
00:42:59.840It's not like he's changing his mind, right?
00:43:00.079 -->
00:43:08.320He's choosing to operate outside of the you know his his ordinary power, right?
00:43:09.119 -->
00:43:10.639Ordained power, I should say.
00:43:11.199 -->
00:43:22.880Well, as our listeners are tuned into this podcast, we trust that this beginning uh talk on the providence of God would have been an encouragement to you, and it is an encouragement to you.
00:43:23.119 -->
00:43:29.920And I'll leave you just with that, with the God's ability, his power, his his presence, his activity in the world.
00:43:30.000 -->
00:43:36.159And if if he's active in the world, he's also active in the most minutiae of events and and your very own life.
00:43:36.320 -->
00:43:39.760And perhaps you're feeling today like that's not the case.
00:43:39.920 -->
00:43:46.880There's a sense of maybe meaninglessness or happenstance, or why am I going through what I'm going through?
00:43:47.280 -->
00:43:58.480Just to reiterate that beautiful passage that we read earlier from the words of Christ, are not two sparrows sold for a penny, and not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your father.
00:43:58.800 -->
00:44:04.079You indeed, child of God, are worth much more than many sparrows.
00:44:04.159 -->
00:44:13.920And so, how much more is God active and at work in your life, despite how you feel or what's going on circumstantially?
00:44:14.159 -->
00:44:17.920We're praying for you and so thankful that you tuned into this podcast.
00:44:18.000 -->
00:44:20.400My name is Sisko Victor with uh Drew Brackville.
00:44:20.559 -->
00:44:21.920Thanks again, Drew, for being with us.
00:44:22.079 -->
00:44:23.760Yeah, welcome back.
00:44:24.239 -->
00:44:32.159And um, if you're in the Lebanon County area, our church is Lebanon Valley Presbyterian Church, PCA.
00:44:32.719 -->
00:44:35.920We meet Sunday mornings, Sunday at 10 a.m.
00:44:36.239 -->
00:44:41.19953 Chestnut Street, Lebanon, Pennsylvania.
00:44:41.280 -->
00:44:42.880We'd love to meet you in person.
00:44:43.199 -->
00:44:44.559The Lord bless you.
00:44:45.119 -->
00:44:46.719Have a wonderful day!
