The Third Way Forward. Featuring Rosa Clemente

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Emily Williams:Welcome back everyone.

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We are so glad you joined us.

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On our last episode, we talked to uncommitted DNC delegate,

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Esam Boraey, about working within the confines

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of our two-party political system.

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And we examined that through the lens

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of the uncommitted movement.

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Esam shared his frustration and disappointment

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with the Democratic Party's leadership

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and their unwillingness to be moved on the situation in Gaza.

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That's despite multiple attempts

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from those in the uncommitted movement

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to engage the Democratic Party on its terms.

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Esam told us that while he won't have his vote

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taken for granted by the party's candidates,

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he still feels that the Democratic Party

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is his political home and the best place for him

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to work for change.

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But that's not the case for many others

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who no longer feel that the Democratic

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or Republican parties best represent their beliefs and values.

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And for those folks, a political home outside the duopoly

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feels like a better fit.

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It can feel hopeless to think your only options

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are between two bad choices.

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The truth is, there aren't just two options.

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But in this country and in this election,

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what does it mean to make a different choice?

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[MUSIC PLAYING]

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I'm Emily Williams, Executive Director

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of the Arcus Center for Social Justice Leadership

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at Kalamazoo College.

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This is Beyond Voting.

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We started this show for people like you and me,

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people who are socially aware, people

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who care about making a difference in the world,

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people who want to share in redesigning

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the democracy that we deserve, outside

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of the typical political binary.

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This podcast is rooted in our conviction

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that democracy requires more participation than just voting.

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It's up to all of us to take action

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if we want to see real change.

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We'll feature conversations with leaders, activists,

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and educators discussing the state of our country's institutions,

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ongoing systems of oppression, and most importantly,

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how we the people can take critical actions

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in pursuit of true equity and justice.

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Let's talk about third parties.

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Third parties get a lot of backlash.

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Every four years, we hear the same accusations

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against third party presidential campaigns,

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that there are distractions, that it's

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throwing your vote away, that they take critical support

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away from, quote unquote, "serious" campaigns,

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and help secure wins for elites who don't really

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care about the interests of the people.

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Or even that third party candidates

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are secret political operatives, funded

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by conservative special interest groups to sabotage the left

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and keep our politics in their two well-established lanes.

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But some people believe that staying within well-established

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political lanes isn't serving us.

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For them, radical new visions of democracy

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and sweeping social change is necessary and achievable.

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So I wanted to talk to someone who shares that radical vision

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and believes that sweeping change is just as necessary

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and achievable today as it's ever been.

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And if ever a third party candidate was serious about that change

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in breaking our duopoly, it's today's guest, Rosa Clemente.

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Rosa is a Black Puerto Rican scholar, activist, journalist,

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organizer, and former vice presidential candidate

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alongside Cynthia McKinney on the Green Party ballot in 2008.

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She has consistently raised up Black and Latin

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next-liberation movements and struggles

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against violence and colonialism.

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She was in the streets during the Black Lives Matter

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protests in Ferguson in 2014.

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She led a group of young organizers

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to cover the destruction her came Maria caused in Puerto Rico.

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And she has been an instrumental voice

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in calling out rape culture in hip-hop.

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When I talked to Rosa, she had just interviewed

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third party presidential candidate with the Justice for All Party,

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Dr. Cornel West.

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So third party campaigns were front and center in her mind.

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We talked about her introduction to the Green Party,

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how third party campaigns actually help influence policy,

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money and political viability,

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and her perspective on those who are weighing

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a historic vote for Kamala Harris

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against their concerns about her policies.

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Rosa, thank you so much for joining us.

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Rosa Clemente:Thank you for having me.

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Emily Williams:So Rosa, tell us, how did you get involved

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with third party politics?

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And what's your sense about what role third parties play

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in influencing policy?

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Rosa Clemente:I got involved in third party politics

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right after the Gore election in 2000.

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I had known about the Green Party

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and I had been to events through my university

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at that time, the University of Albany,

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at Albany, New York.

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And I went to an event that Ralph Nader was talking about.

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And I went up to him and I said, you know, this is great,

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but you won't get it as a white man.

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There's like things that you missed.

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And then he was like, you should join the Green Party.

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So I did.

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So that election where the Supreme Court made George Bush

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the president, that was my first election.

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And I wrote it for Nader.

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Then in 2003, I was part of the 13 people

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that found that the National Hip Hop political convention.

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And we had a huge conference in Newark, New Jersey.

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We're around 3,000 young folks from around the country

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came to develop a hip hop political agenda.

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And we did that.

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And then the last one was 2008 in Las Vegas, Nevada.

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But at that time in 2008, me and my husband, daughter,

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were living with my sister in South Carolina.

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And I had already began to see people

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that I knew, particularly Jared Ball.

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Jared was running for president.

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Then he and someone else stepped aside.

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And then we knew it was going to be Cynthia.

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And then Cynthia called me.

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And it was weird because we were such a people in my immediate family.

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I don't even know how she got in contact with me.

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I mean, she did.

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And then she asked me and I was like, I'm pretty much unemployed.

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I could leave my daughter, at least in my husband justice.

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I'm saving my-- oh, then we got a little like crib in North Carolina.

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And then I just started going on the road.

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And then on July 12, 2008 in Chicago, we got the nomination.

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Emily Williams:Wow.

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And then it sounds like you were involved

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with a lot of electoral politics

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and forming your own political parties

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before you were then asked to be Cynthia McKinney's running mate.

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What role do third parties play in influencing policy?

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Rosa Clemente:If you look at the Green Party platform for decades,

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the Green Party was the first one to call for equality and marriage.

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The Green Party was the first party to stand

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on the Palestinian side of what was--

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what it continues to happen in Gaza.

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The Green Party was very instrumental in getting

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people to understand not only what happens when people

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from the Green Party run, but making people understand

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that valid access is very, very difficult.

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And that to a third party to become a permanent party

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where they wouldn't have to spend most of the time

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getting on a ballot, if we get 5% of the electorate,

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that means you're permanent and you're

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in the range of being able to get matching funds

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from the federal election committee.

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So what it really comes down to is this duopoly

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doesn't want any third party.

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They don't want the libertarians.

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They don't want the craziness of R&K.

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They don't want Green Party.

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They don't want justice for all party.

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And it's interesting because yesterday I saw a story

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because I interviewed Dr. Cornel West yesterday.

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And I was like, people need to know the people that

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sue the Green Party the most is the Democratic Party.

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Like right now if we were a permanent party,

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we'd be closer than ever.

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Well, we would get the 5% now, right?

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Because there's stoked young people and Palestinian people

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in Michigan that are like uncommitted

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on the president all the way down.

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And then obviously there was no youth enthusiasm

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at all, you know, at all that changed very quick

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with Vice President Harris.

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So those two major parties don't ever

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want to see a third party.

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But I now get more than average 16 years later,

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how me and Cynthia also created that space.

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Emily Willams: And thank you for sharing so much of that

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and also your personal experience because at least in 2008,

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at least for me, the Green Party had visibility.

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And in you and Cynthia's ticket had visibility.

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And that platform was really influential for me personally.

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And I think for a lot of other activists,

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I mean, even this notion that in the 2020 elections

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that student loan cancellation was such a major issue,

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often it does take eight, 10 years

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for these movements to actually get visibility

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in mainstream politics, particularly in the elections.

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And so I think a lot of that has to do

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with the work that you and Cynthia did back in 2008.

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Rosa Clemente:Yeah, and let me say we would be in such a much better place,

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but the Green Party treated me.

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And Cynthia, like shit, Colorado Greens took us off a ballot.

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It's like what party takes they candidates off the ballot.

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There's a lot of like white male racism to this day,

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a lot of entitlement.

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And they just treated us horribly. By the time,

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in 2016, by the time that was going on,

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Cynthia have been left a party.

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Like I said, I stayed registered to vote for a John Marlboroca.

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And that's the last time I voted for the Green Party.

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And you know, I'm not voting for them again.

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You know, I'm a member in it.

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I think it's important, but the things that they did to us,

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there's still been no accountability,

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especially from white men in that party.

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Emily Williams:Yeah, and I hate to hear that because it's like,

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you know, we have these brilliant women of color

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who are like on the front end of our movements,

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on the front end of pushing our democracy forward

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and we get beat up for it, we get abused for it.

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And it absolutely should not be that way.

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And hopefully we have more, I don't know if this is true,

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but one would hope that we have more progressive institutions

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now who would understand the importance of third parties.

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And the sacrifices that people take

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to actually lead these third parties.

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But tell me this Rosa, what role do you think money

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or the lack of it plays in the viability of third parties?

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And relatedly, how do third parties become competitive

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without becoming corrupt?

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Rosa Clemente:Unless there's a like actual like real revolution,

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and you know, I don't mean it in like,

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you know, the way people think about it,

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violence, civil war and that, none of us could compete.

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You can't compete with half a billion dollars.

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Like, you know, you can't compete with,

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Kamala Harris getting three days, getting $119 million.

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Even that though, people are not being honest about it.

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She did not get that money from the 44,000 women

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that were on a black women that were on a call

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and the subsequent brothers who did a call

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went together, they raised three to $4 million.

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So where's the other 115 coming from?

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From A-PAC, from corporations, you know,

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Boeing, A-PAC, big tech.

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You tell people like, this is just what it is.

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I'm not like calm down, but don't act like

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that she raised $119 million from the people.

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And the closest we've been to that is Bernie Sanders.

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So unless, you know, we're gonna go back

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and relitigate citizens united,

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which then gives unlimited money in all the PACs,

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how can anybody compete?

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Like that whole thing where anybody in America

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could be president, absolutely not anymore.

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It doesn't matter who runs, it's just like, stop saying that.

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The only way that happens is in half federal election

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committee matching the money.

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So you can't compete.

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So, Bernie's the best thing they have is that, you know,

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especially seeing what was happening.

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So recently where a lot of more younger, younger people

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are tired, like they know this democracy shouldn't just be two parties.

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They know how much money is going in it.

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You know, I would love to at least see people debate.

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The last time there was a third party person debating

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was Ross Perot, and during the 10 years.

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After that, there's never been another third party candidate

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on either a debate presidential or vice presidential debate.

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So if you can't get a debate, well, the closest one soon,

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at least CNN did a town hall with a John and Barack

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and Joe Stein.

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But yeah, so the money thing, unless you get through something

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or there's things that change that and no money from corporations,

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no one can compete with $120,000,

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and probably at the end, both of the candidates

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will probably have spent a billion dollars together.

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Emily Williams:And if you all maybe have been building the movement

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for the Green Party since 2008, that makes sense.

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But you know, recently, I've seen folks on social media

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respond to the idea of voting third party by saying that we only ever

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see these third party candidates every four years.

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And basically that these third party candidates

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come to convince people to like throw away their votes.

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So why do you think people feel that way?

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And how can we change that perception?

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Rosa Clemente:Yeah, I mean, that's the complete misconception

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because you don't win or lose an election

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because someone else is running.

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That fear comes from when people for months blamed Ralph Nader

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when Al Gore lost.

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But at the end of the day, Al Gore didn't get elected

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because the Supreme Court stopped the counting of votes

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and shut it down.

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So the vitriol towards Nader and other third parties at that time

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was pretty super intense, right?

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And you're beginning to see it now again.

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So what people do that is also to instill fear.

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And anyone that thinks, I don't like either party,

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I don't like this way going down.

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Let me see another party and what's going on.

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And then the thing is if people are voting out of fear,

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that is not a democratic process.

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That's like in Russia, when they're like 90% of the Russians voted,

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yet because they have to, they go to people's houses

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and like you better be on that line, you know?

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And that's that's that's an authoritative oligarch kind of way.

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But that's the whole point, like why are you scaring people?

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Well, you're scaring people because at the end,

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none of these parties are doing them

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to what they need to do.

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And it's just going to be the same stuff.

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When Harris swings for the, what is she going to change?

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She's going to be going on some things, which is great.

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But at the end, she can't even really come hard

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as she should have, again, the genocide, right?

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Emily Williams:Exactly.

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So Rosa, people often think of third parties

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as too narrowly focused on like one or two issues

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or that they lack flexibility when it comes to like working

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within our political system.

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Do you think that's a fair assessment?

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Rosa Clemente:That they're too political to what?

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Emily Williams:Like too narrowly focused or that their focus is so far

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a field from what mainstream candidates are talking about

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or what people perceive as a mainstream issues.

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Rosa Clemente:No, we don't have third parties

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or what the real mainstream issues are.

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We don't want war, you know,

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create a department of peace.

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We think everybody deserves a little wage.

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We think everybody deserves their debt being canceled,

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not the $10,000 that everybody thinks

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Biden and cancel all debt.

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And I think this is where he's been the best at.

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I just wish he went one step forward.

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You know, this generation, younger generation can't stop.

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They can't be in the economy by house

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to participate because of student loan.

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But everything else, it is a mainstream.

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So the thing is people got to read the platforms.

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So that's the problem too.

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00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,920
There's so much, there's lack in voter education.

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Like I said, if you look at the green party

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or you look at my speech from the National Hip-Hop political agenda,

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every issue that people call it to this day

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00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:04,680
that working class people around this country,

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00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,080
they would be citing especially with the green party.

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00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:11,800
Because the green party's third party platform to me is the best.

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00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:13,440
Well, like I said at the beginning,

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it's the green party that developed the green new deal.

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AOC didn't do any of the neither did Bernie.

347
00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,040
Joe Stein wrote that, right?

348
00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,880
So like it's interesting to see the Democrats

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00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:28,600
have taken things literally from the green party platform

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and be like these are the ideas.

351
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:32,440
But again, what do we want?

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Ancet police violence, right?

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00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:36,600
A livable wage, every on-house person

354
00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,680
should be in-house like immediately, right?

355
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Canceling student debt loan, strengthening voter rights act,

356
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,520
fighting to get our reproductive rights.

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That's always been the green party platform.

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And if you juxtapose with the National Hip-Hop political convention,

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we added a couple things.

360
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And one of our biggest things coming from our people

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would end mass incarceration.

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And now that you look particularly, look at how much

363
00:18:02,360 --> 00:18:05,920
further the police violence or mass incarceration movement

364
00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:09,280
has to be getting major, major wins, right?

365
00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:13,280
So I believe that those three platforms and agendas

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00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:15,400
is everything the people want.

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Emily Williams:But I agree with that.

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And I think if people truly understood representation in a democracy,

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people would get that too.

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00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:26,960
But too often people capitulate to the power of the mainstream candidates,

371
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:27,960
right?

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00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:30,640
Because that's where they believe the power is and only where the power can be.

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Rosa Clemente:And also the media is complicit.

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I watch CNN and MSNBC daily.

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00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:39,680
And I'm like, look at all these, I call them the punditry class, right?

376
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:43,400
These cats on TV are acting like they're not millionaires.

377
00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:47,840
So when they're sitting there and they're like nice contract and on TV,

378
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:49,880
being like, "Owe inflations not bad."

379
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:53,480
It's because you can afford $8 for an avocado.

380
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:55,360
It's because you're rich.

381
00:18:55,360 --> 00:19:01,040
Where's the journalists that aren't rich on democracy now and other places?

382
00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:08,600
But they've also this consistent litany of saving democracy for who?

383
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:10,520
What are you saving democracy for?

384
00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:14,120
You go around the world, you're going to see like 50 different parties

385
00:19:14,120 --> 00:19:16,240
and you're going to see mad people running.

386
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:17,840
And then you're going to have one election.

387
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:19,360
Are you going to have the second?

388
00:19:19,360 --> 00:19:23,000
The best thing to watch recently is what happened in France.

389
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,520
You know, they went hard on the right.

390
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:30,000
Then Marie Le Pen and all the other right wingers were like, we're about to win.

391
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,560
And then the left came out and shut it down.

392
00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:33,560
We don't have that.

393
00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:35,440
We only have two parties.

394
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:37,200
No one can really run.

395
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:41,960
Once you're an AOC, Rashida to live and all that, their politics may be great, but

396
00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:49,400
then they're joining 435 people that, you know, Nancy Pelosi is so diligent and

397
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:55,160
how keen Jeffries like, you know, shut down anything, shut it down.

398
00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,640
And the squad becomes a little mad.

399
00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:02,960
They're not able to do what they want in there to do or they're getting pushed out.

400
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:04,560
Or they're going to be primaries.

401
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,840
So like that whole thing of democracy for the group.

402
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:08,640
Emily Williams:Exactly.

403
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:14,200
Rosa Clemente:We just had another black woman shot in her house, Sonya Massey, you know, like look at all

404
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,000
the work young people have done.

405
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:20,240
And now in the last 10 days, there's been three other black men murdered by the police.

406
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:24,520
And now we have this mom that literally called them to help her.

407
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:26,160
And they shot her in her face.

408
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,560
So it's like democracy for who and what?

409
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:33,160
No, you have no clue what's going on in our communities period Emily Williams: because they don't want

410
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:34,160
to.

411
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:35,880
It's also well-fledd ignorance, right?

412
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:36,880
Rosa Clemente:And money.

413
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:42,680
But let's not underestimate that this is the one percent of the black and Latino community.

414
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,920
So again, they're like inflation is not bad.

415
00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:47,360
Public schools are great.

416
00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:50,760
Put police and public schools can't stop gone violence.

417
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:56,400
But then they're sitting there and then they start to attack in their kind of way of like,

418
00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:00,520
well, if young people don't come out, you're going to get Trump is going to be your fault.

419
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,440
No, if Harris lose this, that's what's going to happen.

420
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:07,920
They're going to blame Latinos and then young people and then three party people as opposed

421
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:12,080
to being like, you knew you shouldn't have run him.

422
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,880
She should have already been the nominee.

423
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:20,920
And now this high level expectation, you know, now I'm saying she's obviously is polling

424
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,040
like doubling her polling.

425
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,280
We're now seeing young people engaged.

426
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:31,000
I love that as a black woman, if she becomes the president, that's something we have to be

427
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,000
like, oh, shit.

428
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:34,000
Its here.

429
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:39,080
And but then the next day, we got to go and then push her on whatever it is.

430
00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:40,680
And of course, we don't have to discuss it.

431
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:41,680
Trump loses.

432
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,560
There's going to be a lot of like violence, political violence.

433
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:48,720
And then if he wins, you know, he's going to be a dictator and how do we prepare for that?

434
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:50,120
And what would that look like?

435
00:21:50,120 --> 00:21:54,200
Now that the Supreme Court basically said what he said when you started running, I could

436
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,000
kill someone in church, I'm a public and I'm not going to jail.

437
00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,640
Well, actually, you could do that now and you're not going to go to jail.

438
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:00,640
Emily Williams:Right.

439
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:05,960
Rosa Clemente:And the Supreme Court has just given immunity for acts in office and acts after.

440
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:06,960
Right.

441
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:07,960
Yeah.

442
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:12,040
Emily Williams:And you know, after he stacked the Supreme Court and now that they've given him full immunity

443
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:17,040
for anything he does in his official capacity as president, he knows exactly what that means.

444
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:23,640
But Rosa, so because you just mentioned Kamala Harris and she's now the Democratic nominee.

445
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:28,040
How do we respond to people who, you know, may agree with the policies of a third party

446
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:36,520
candidacy like West and Abdullah, but are also swayed by the potential historical significance

447
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:38,520
of this moment for black women.

448
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:40,160
Rosa Clemente:I mean, that's critically important.

449
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:45,240
Look, I call myself a black Puerto Rican, but the African American women experience is different.

450
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:52,560
And I've been very mindful of not going hard on her like when my daughter calls me and

451
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:56,480
she's like, Mom, I'm going to be able to vote for a black woman.

452
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:57,800
Are you going to be mad?

453
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:01,240
And I was like, no, like, no, why would I be mad?

454
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,960
I was like, girl, that's like going in that booth or pressing that button.

455
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,320
You know, that's that's for you.

456
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,120
That's your decision or me.

457
00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:13,920
Look, when it comes down to it, I may be totally off on this.

458
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:18,800
I just don't think men are going to vote for a woman to be president.

459
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,720
Black, white, Asian, not Latin.

460
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:22,720
Come on.

461
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,160
Like I'm like, so are reproductive rights no longer exist.

462
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:31,200
But now this country is going to elect a black woman beyond that.

463
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:36,840
You know, what I do and I always and clear to you know, when people call me for advice or

464
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:44,800
anything, what I say now with this is like totally opposed to probably every policy decision.

465
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:51,440
I don't forget that she passed a law where the families of kids that were truant were

466
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:52,600
arrested.

467
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:57,360
I don't forget her A-PAC speeches and all of that.

468
00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:04,400
But is someone began to attack her because and it's already happening because of gender

469
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:05,880
and patriarchy.

470
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:10,560
I don't support any of that and I don't accept it because when I was running, that's when

471
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:15,880
Hilary Clinton was still in it and like the vitriol based on her looks and that.

472
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:17,360
So I think you can have both.

473
00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:25,400
I think you could oppose vehemently, you know, the policies, but also if she's attacked,

474
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:30,240
it's the responsibility of us as women of color to be like, no, this is not going to go

475
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:31,920
down that way.

476
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:38,080
Look, this is going to be an incredible moment for African American women who keep saving

477
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:39,560
the Democratic Party.

478
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:46,560
This is going to be a significant moment for young people to be like, oh my God, a woman's

479
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,160
the president.

480
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:54,120
So I always say vote your values, vote that day, the next day get back to organizing.

481
00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:55,120
Emily Williams:Right.

482
00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:57,320
Which is so important.

483
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:01,440
And you know, that's kind of like this election shows us that more than anything.

484
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:06,260
You know, you got to vote, but then it's like you got to organize and we should always be

485
00:25:06,260 --> 00:25:08,000
organizing actually in my opinion.

486
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:09,000
Rosa Clemente:Absolutely.

487
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:13,040
Emily Williams:But I want to go back to something that you said earlier about whether or not men will

488
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,320
actually vote for a woman to become president.

489
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:17,920
I think that's a valid question.

490
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:23,200
But then also you mentioned we're taking away a woman's reproductive rights in one moment

491
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,680
and then the next moment we think a woman can win as president.

492
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:32,920
I just, I want to hear you say more about that because when I think about how women lost

493
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:37,880
the rights or their reproductive rights, it was because of this very far right agenda and

494
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:46,200
because the Supreme Court is packed, not necessarily like this broad misogyny or patriarchy

495
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:47,600
that led to it.

496
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,840
But rather was just almost like a small contingent of people who made that happen because they

497
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:53,800
had the power to do so.

498
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:59,560
So what is it that makes you say that you can't see that men will actually vote for a woman

499
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:01,920
to become president?

500
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:10,240
Rosa Clemente: Because men have literally dropped the ball on calling a mass movement mass march whatever

501
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:17,480
to push for abortion to be codified, which the Democrats had many years to codify reproductive

502
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:22,920
rights and not leave it up to the Supreme Court just or leave it up to the stage because

503
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:28,840
if that was the flip, like if it was, if it was men's reproductive rights that would take

504
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:32,600
in away the country would have burnt down in like five days.

505
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:34,080
Where are the men?

506
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:35,080
Emily Williams:Right.

507
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:36,080
Rosa Clemente:Like where are you?

508
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,920
And I mean all of you like where are you?

509
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:44,120
And I also believe it's not as you know, just about abortion.

510
00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:46,520
It's about controlling your reproductive rights.

511
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:51,240
And anytime I'm in a space where a man might say, well, I don't know where I'm not sure.

512
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:57,720
I also say don't think that you one day will be even able to control your own body.

513
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:02,120
What if those goes the more dystopic way of well, you know what?

514
00:27:02,120 --> 00:27:05,480
We're going to take away the reproductive rights of poor black men.

515
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:06,480
Oh, you know what?

516
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,760
We're not going to allow somebody that was in jail.

517
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:14,280
We want to sterilize them before they come out so they don't have reproductive control

518
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:15,680
of their bodies.

519
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,320
Now when you when I say that to men, then it's like, oh, word.

520
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,920
Like I'm like, stop acting like it's just us.

521
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:23,920
Emily Williams:Right.

522
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,280
And stop acting like you don't have a stake when it's just us.

523
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:31,880
Rosa Clemente:Yeah, but I hate when men are like, oh, you know, I get misogyny because my daughter,

524
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:33,200
you should get it anyway.

525
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,240
Like it's not about having a woman in your life.

526
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:37,240
Emily Williams:Exactly.

527
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:38,240
Exactly.

528
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:51,360
You're listening to Beyond Voting.

529
00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:53,640
I'm Emily Williams.

530
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:58,440
Before the break, we were talking with 2008 Green Party Vice Presidential candidate Rosa

531
00:27:58,440 --> 00:27:59,680
Clemente.

532
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,760
In the second half of our conversation, Rosa shared her thoughts about what it would

533
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,920
take to mobilize a third party into relevancy.

534
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:11,440
The current state of social justice movements and what kind of country we'd have to look

535
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:17,480
forward to if we implemented Rosa's vision for America.

536
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:22,880
So tell me this, did we miss an opportunity to mobilize for a third party when Biden stood

537
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:23,880
down?

538
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:24,880
Rosa Clemente:Yeah, we did.

539
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:26,280
We weren't prepared for it.

540
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:30,480
You know, we were running these three different kind of independent campaigns and also

541
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:35,280
you have RFK and the libertarians, you know, I think what should have happened is all

542
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:40,760
the third party candidates should be together and got at least on the same ballot.

543
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,200
I think it happened so fast too.

544
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:47,280
You know, I think what was going on was that people just were exhausted at that point.

545
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:53,280
We're like, whatever, just let us get to the ballot booth because this everyday kind

546
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:54,280
of thing.

547
00:28:54,280 --> 00:29:00,120
I think the Democrats, again, as if I was a political officer, I would have been told

548
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,120
them, like, yo, why are you all putting him up there?

549
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:08,920
Like, why is Joe Biden and his sister and his son not being like, yo, you've been in here

550
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:10,320
for 50 years?

551
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,080
You've done some incredible good work.

552
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:19,040
He did some bad work because he was the one when the need of Hill confirmations were happening.

553
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:23,040
He led that, you know, and obviously the war was going on in Gaza.

554
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:27,280
Kind of thing, but there's a moment where you have empathy and compassion.

555
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:32,280
You know, I think what's also happened, which is antithetical to how black and brown people

556
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:36,480
roll is the disrespect of an elder.

557
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,280
You see him struggle like that.

558
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:42,360
And it's just like, why are you all doing this and that the mainstream media was taking some

559
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:46,360
form of glee, you know, like, oh, what's going to happen?

560
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,040
Why is he going to pout and say that shit's not funny?

561
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,040
You all like, that's sad.

562
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:52,040
Yeah.

563
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:53,040
Emily Williams:Yeah.

564
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:54,040
Yeah.

565
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:55,040
Yeah.

566
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,800
And I think in some ways, it was like so many people were just so numb.

567
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:03,600
Many people had already resigned themselves to, you know, I saw so many people online saying,

568
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:07,680
I'm going to vote for Joe Biden if he's, you know, on life support, you know, because they

569
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:09,040
just didn't want the alternative.

570
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:14,680
So I think so many people were just numb and just forced themselves to just resolve to vote

571
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:20,680
for him no matter what, because he's not Trump, you know, because he was the democratic nominee.

572
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,920
And you know, when I think about probably the majority of the country being in that state

573
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:29,760
of mind, that also makes me think about what you said about like how we weren't prepared

574
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,960
for that moment because we just, we were just numb to it, right?

575
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,000
We're just going along with it at this point.

576
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:40,800
But it also makes me think, how do we take our radical left politics and apply them to

577
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,080
this moment that we're in right now?

578
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:47,160
Rosa Clemente:Well, I just, I don't think we have a movement.

579
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:53,120
And I also think what happened is more left people, social justice, racial justice, people,

580
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:59,960
gender justice, you know, they put all their, their, their two skills and money to vote

581
00:30:59,960 --> 00:31:00,960
for somebody.

582
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:06,160
I think that's the biggest mistake the movement has made to forget organizing on the ground

583
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:07,760
locally, right?

584
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:12,560
And then only come in right now and scaring everybody to be like, give us money.

585
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,760
We've got to make sure that Harris wins.

586
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:19,680
I think the movement has become too dependent on electoral politics.

587
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:21,640
But also again, we don't have a movement.

588
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:23,520
It's been completely shattered.

589
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:29,920
I think that's the biggest mistake that happened post Obama that this over reliance.

590
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,120
So are you going to get a left political radical?

591
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,440
No, no.

592
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:40,200
You're going to get it if you're on the ground organizing in your organization.

593
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,920
That's not going to come through on voting for a president and to see the movement so

594
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:51,680
fracture that some of us really paid attention to older folks, the hip-hop generation,

595
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:53,960
kind of political people.

596
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:58,920
We were never engaged in electoral politics like that till after Obama.

597
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:02,600
And now it's become the main thing that people are using.

598
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:08,000
And then all the attacks on Black Lives Matter movement for Black Lives, Dream Defenders, Mi Gente

599
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:17,240
and the organizations that have come out from the millennial generation, that generation

600
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:23,160
who created these new organizations come out of having voted for Obama.

601
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:30,800
So then when Trayvon is murdered and then George Zimmerman gets acquitted, that was the

602
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:36,280
time where that generation was like, why does it matter to have a Black president?

603
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:43,720
You know, we're never going to have a radical black policy within electoral projects?

604
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:50,200
That's why it's the organizing on the, where you're at locally because we don't have a national

605
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,640
kind of over broad movement.

606
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:57,760
People have gone in different directions, but the local organizing, that's what's going

607
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,000
to work better than anything else.

608
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:06,080
You know, and I think we need to get back to doing organizing on the grassroots, to doing

609
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:11,800
movement, to saying if you want to get down with electoral politics, do it through these

610
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:12,800
third parties.

611
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:17,760
Now what I neglected to say is because what happens also, we don't know people that have

612
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:18,760
been elected.

613
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:25,280
So when you look at the Green Party nationwide, we have elected mayors, city controllers,

614
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,520
board of ed people on the Green Party platform.

615
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:32,920
We just haven't gotten to the national election in those candidates.

616
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,760
Emily Williams:So what do you think it would take to rebuild that kind of movement?

617
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,160
Rosa Clemente:You know, I don't think that's going to happen again.

618
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:45,320
So I think like for me, if there's maybe a national movement comes back up on some other

619
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:52,520
thing, like maybe a national movement towards working class people to better the economic

620
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:57,760
conditions and opportunities, but also, you know, I also believe capitalism is the main

621
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,200
tool that destroys so many people.

622
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:06,200
So I think it's local community organizing and coming out of the Malcolm X grassroots movement,

623
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:12,240
one of our tenants itself determination and that can look very different, but I do see

624
00:34:12,240 --> 00:34:16,440
more and more people being like less organized.

625
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,600
I don't need to get on a plane to go to someone else's protest.

626
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:20,600
Let's organize here.

627
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:24,720
Let's build something and there are organizations that are doing that.

628
00:34:24,720 --> 00:34:31,360
One of my best that is my also political home is what folks have been doing in cooperation

629
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:32,480
Jackson.

630
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,600
Then I live in, so that's Johnson, Mississippi.

631
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,280
That's my con rattle Malcolm X grassroots movement.

632
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:41,600
Colleo, Kuno and Sakio, Kuno.

633
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:47,360
It's also where Chowkwe, Lamoomba, but became the mayor and unfortunately he died of a hard

634
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:48,360
attack.

635
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:54,560
But Colle specifically had developed a 10 year plan of self determination.

636
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:58,640
So if you go to Johnson right now, they have a supermarket.

637
00:34:58,640 --> 00:34:59,720
They got gardens.

638
00:34:59,720 --> 00:35:04,920
They have built houses for activists, but they're creating on those things and I see it.

639
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:06,960
Then I live here in upstate New York.

640
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:13,640
We have probably one of the few black Latinx farms in about 30 minutes away from me in Albany

641
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:15,160
and in Grafton.

642
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:20,400
And I tell people just come out here so I can take you to see this because what it is is like

643
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,680
we know that Malcolm did always talk about to this.

644
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:28,160
If you can't have land and feed yourself, you're always going to be dependent.

645
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:34,120
But now that we know that 44,000 black women were on that call, I think that after the election,

646
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:39,320
we need to have a mass call like that from everybody in this country that we can all tap into

647
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:43,160
collectively and at least be like, okay, this happened.

648
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:49,960
And then if he were to win, we really going to have to do that because if he loses, I know

649
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:56,040
there's going to be a lot of political violence and it's going to be coming from the crowd

650
00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:01,080
boys and Steve Bannon's and all of that because they're going to do the same thing.

651
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:08,360
And this time it's not going to be, not that it was good last time, you know, but I think

652
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,200
it's going to be a very, very dark time.

653
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,080
So that's what I'm saying.

654
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:17,280
Local organizing works if you could tap into the national and if people can't organize

655
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:21,800
on the ground like that, then at least let's support these groups that also are not intertwined

656
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:27,280
with the nonprofit industrial complex, the real folks that are doing that work of what

657
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,280
Malcolm said, so determination.

658
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:30,280
Emily Williams:Yeah.

659
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:31,440
And thank you for that.

660
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:35,840
And what advice would you give to even the younger activists among us?

661
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:41,320
Rosa Clemente:Well, I would like the younger activists to be part of an organization and not just think

662
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:46,160
like, you know, organized doing yourself on TikTok is making a difference.

663
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:51,560
Just making kind of people retreat to like their specific corner and their specific politics.

664
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:57,560
What I would say to generation C to not make, I think the more mistakes about the millennials

665
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:05,680
is the minute they start wanting you on a magazine, the minute they want to close you,

666
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:09,560
the minute you go on Jimmy Fallon, that's already done.

667
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:10,560
It's over.

668
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:11,560
Emily Williams:Right.

669
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:15,960
So I've heard you say that your focus is on motivating non voters.

670
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:21,160
So what do you tell disillusioned undecided voters?

671
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,000
What do they need to do right now?

672
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,080
What do they need to do on November 5th?

673
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:30,920
And what do they need to do in the four years between this year's election and the next

674
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:31,920
election?

675
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:36,880
Rosa Clemente:I mean, when I was in the green party, yeah, I wanted to, you know, I would tell everybody

676
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:41,280
we got to get those that are not voting at that moment, what that demographic looked

677
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:42,600
like.

678
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,440
But I've never been one that says you have to vote.

679
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:50,760
And this is the part you people like Rosa, look, you vote, you don't vote.

680
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:57,200
Again, that's a personal decision, but coming out of Puerto Rican politics on the island,

681
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:03,760
not because I lived there, but Puerto Ricans and other, maybe some, some of the countries,

682
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:08,840
when you withhold your vote, you should be withholding it as the message itself.

683
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:13,880
So if you look at elections around the world, there will literally be people like, I'm

684
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:18,440
not going to participate in this system of voting.

685
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:25,080
So when someone tells me that I'm like at the end of the day, that's your position.

686
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:29,760
Because for me, whatever president's in it, whether it would ever have been me or it's

687
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:35,080
going to be Cornel West or whatever, I don't shame people who don't vote enough people

688
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:36,080
do that.

689
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,800
Now, Puerto Rico, we can vote as the president, right?

690
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:45,880
And that itself is disenfranchisement of 1.7 million Puerto Ricans under colonial rule,

691
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:49,040
who are not a lot to vote if they live on the island.

692
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,240
So if you're going to withhold the vote, I'm not mad at that.

693
00:38:52,240 --> 00:38:59,000
But I think for me, I love the uncommitted movement.

694
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:06,840
And I love that that is coming straight from the ground, that Palestinian people in Michigan

695
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:13,960
have already said, and they said it even when Harris, you know, becoming a nominee.

696
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:18,240
If you do not end this genocide in Gaza, we are withholding our vote.

697
00:39:18,240 --> 00:39:23,400
And the reason the Democrats are very scared of that is because that's what happened when Hillary

698
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:24,480
and Trump.

699
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:30,440
So you see 43,000 people that voted in Michigan, but did not vote for the president.

700
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:35,960
But I think the sophistication of the Palestinian movement in this country say, you know what?

701
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:39,640
I'm still voting uncommitted until they stop the war and genocide.

702
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:40,960
You are not getting my vote.

703
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:46,400
I will vote down ballot for our Congresswoman, Roshita and other people.

704
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,760
And I don't think the DNC is taking that seriously enough.

705
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:50,760
Emily Williams:I agree with you on that.

706
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,440
I don't think there are the DNC's taking it seriously enough.

707
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:57,720
And I agree that it was, it was so smart and it was timed perfectly right around the

708
00:39:57,720 --> 00:40:00,840
primaries to say, listen, we're not going to vote for you.

709
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:01,920
We're uncommitted.

710
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:03,440
And here's our issue, right?

711
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,240
So that was super smart.

712
00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:11,680
So all right, Rosa, I have so been looking forward to asking you this last question.

713
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:12,680
Rosa Clemente:Okay.

714
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:17,840
So let's just say that we successfully bring down the duopoly.

715
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,200
And now we have president Rosa Clemente.

716
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:22,200
Rosa Clemente:No, no I'm never running again.

717
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:30,920
I've been, I've been very, no, I mean, I'm glad to be like, you know, when younger people

718
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,880
maybe the green party and they're like, they're running and I'm like, how can I support

719
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:35,880
you?

720
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:39,160
But no, I don't want to run for any position.

721
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,160
I, I don't have that in me anymore.

722
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:42,160
Emily Williams:Okay.

723
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:43,160
Okay.

724
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:44,160
So then, okay.

725
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:45,160
So let me just shift at that.

726
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:49,040
So let's just say that we successfully bring down the duopoly and someone from the younger

727
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:54,920
generation who you have mentored and for whom you have been a political operative.

728
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,080
Let's say that they are now president.

729
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:04,800
How would you advise them to implement a social justice platform in the first 100 days?

730
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:09,400
Who's in that cabinet and how does the country change for the better?

731
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:10,400
Rosa Clemente:Yeah.

732
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:14,160
I mean, in those first 100 days, they could do a lot of executive orders.

733
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:18,920
You know, immediately I would hope that they would first deal with the migrant situation

734
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:19,920
on the border.

735
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:20,920
Yeah.

736
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:24,080
I think the way people are looking at it is an old way of looking at it.

737
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:28,800
I think people don't understand that there's also Chinese folks, Haitian folks that are coming

738
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:30,640
through that border too.

739
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:36,880
And the actualities that the Mexican migration movement has like dwindled.

740
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:42,440
And now you see more other countries and then making these treacherous journeys.

741
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:46,880
I would advise them against the cancel student loan debt.

742
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:53,120
I would want them to maybe reshape the Supreme Court and impeach those that need to be

743
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:59,320
impeached because they're the law of the land and that everyone has housing.

744
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:01,960
And then lastly, just healthcare for all.

745
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,160
I mean, Joe Biden has done good on that.

746
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:08,640
You can't be like, yo, insulin was $500 and not $35 a month.

747
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:10,600
I would be like, it shouldn't cost anything.

748
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:14,800
There's no way in with the richest country, the world, and anybody have to do anything,

749
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:18,880
but get free healthcare and not have to jump through the hoops.

750
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:24,240
That was that seriously look at a new way of looking at education and what would that look

751
00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:29,440
like because public education needs to be revamped because it shouldn't be.

752
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:34,760
I was going to high school 30 years ago and the school still looked the same in our teaching the

753
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:36,040
same way.

754
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:42,240
When now we're a country where it's like, you know, we could do education very differently.

755
00:42:42,240 --> 00:42:46,560
We could also obviously that higher education should also be free.

756
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:50,640
And we can do all these things and it could cost what a trillion dollars to do everything.

757
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:54,080
I said, well, we're already in two trillion dollars worth of debt.

758
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:59,360
I mean, and immediately cut at least the military spending 50%.

759
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,800
Do that alone.

760
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:03,600
Everything that I just said happens.

761
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:05,680
So that's what I would advise them.

762
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:11,320
I would go to the party and meet Kendrick and tell him he's a genius and then I would go

763
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:15,840
home and be like, I'm here when you need me.

764
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:19,400
Emily Williams:All right.

765
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:23,040
So many important lessons from this conversation with Rosa.

766
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,440
Let's start with what's on everyone's mind.

767
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:30,200
If you're not happy with any candidate in the selection and let's be honest, even with

768
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:35,760
Vice President Harris now being the Democratic nominee, many of us still don't feel our values

769
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:38,840
in politics are represented by any candidate.

770
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:44,800
Then the question is, how do we create change, especially when it seems at the system,

771
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:49,760
as in the US electoral system is so deeply entrenched?

772
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:51,640
Remember that voting is a tool.

773
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:57,280
It is far from the end all be all within a democracy to truly create the democracy that

774
00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:58,600
we all deserve.

775
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:04,320
We have to find multiple ways to make our voices heard as individuals and as collectives,

776
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,480
as members of communities.

777
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:11,360
Rosa said, vote your values, think it back to organizing the next day.

778
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:15,640
We stress that we can't put too much emphasis on the presidential elections when the people's

779
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:22,040
issues are environmental justice, a livable wage, ending war and violence here in abroad,

780
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:24,280
organizing is critical.

781
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:30,400
So vote your values and get back to organizing, especially at the local level, the very next

782
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:31,720
day.

783
00:44:31,720 --> 00:44:36,080
Perhaps you're listening because you want to get active in your community and make a difference.

784
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:40,720
Perhaps you're worried about the fate of democracy if Trump is elected for a second term

785
00:44:40,720 --> 00:44:46,040
in what that will mean for the rise of fascism here in the US and around the world.

786
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:50,720
Or perhaps you're concerned because the Democratic Party isn't distinguishing itself

787
00:44:50,720 --> 00:44:54,000
enough from the Republican platform.

788
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:57,640
Those are real concerns and we'll talk more about them next week.

789
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:03,120
But when we say organizing, we being coming together with others, determining a set of issues

790
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:08,920
to address, strategizing the way forward and being relentless about creating positive

791
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:10,680
social change.

792
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:16,720
Social media can be a great tool for community organizing, but it cannot replace working collaboratively

793
00:45:16,720 --> 00:45:21,800
in real life with other groups of folks to bring about change.

794
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:26,320
And remember when Rosa said that the Green Party would get 5% of the electorate now in

795
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:27,320
this election?

796
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:31,840
That didn't happen because in many ways, the Green Party lost momentum after Rosa's

797
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:34,440
in Cynthia McKinney's run for president.

798
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:39,320
So we have to organize continually to address our community's issues and for the world that

799
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:44,200
we deserve so that when the time is right, we're ready with the alternative the masses are

800
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:45,700
looking for.

801
00:45:45,700 --> 00:45:51,560
I mean, just imagine if Rosa and Cynthia were running in this election in an un-a-platform

802
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:58,640
of ending war, canceling student debt, actually passing the Green New Deal, access to reproductive

803
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:00,520
rights for all.

804
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,440
Imagine how different this election would be.

805
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:07,080
So remember that organizing is often about the long game.

806
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:11,160
It's about being ready for when the moment is right.

807
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:13,160
Don't expect change to be easy.

808
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:17,280
Rosa started her journey into third-party politics when she was in college.

809
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:18,840
She's been at it a long time.

810
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:23,120
That's not the only reason why making change wasn't easy for Rosa.

811
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:28,240
It's also because when we buck up against the status quo, those who benefit from it try

812
00:46:28,240 --> 00:46:33,280
really hard to resist any change that could threaten those benefits.

813
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:37,760
Rosa shared about the white male racism she encountered, which ultimately caused her to physically

814
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:42,040
leave the Green Party, even though she still donates because she knows how important the work

815
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:44,120
of third parties are.

816
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:48,000
Part of the reason why third-party candidates struggle so much is because of the amount

817
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:50,320
of money in politics.

818
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:54,440
Remember that she said Kamala raised $119 million?

819
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:57,600
The media made it seem as though that money was raised from the black women and men

820
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,760
who held Zoom calls to celebrate her candidacy.

821
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:05,760
Yet, it was actually big tech and other special interest groups that donated the majority

822
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:08,000
of the money to her campaign.

823
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:12,400
So if candidates are beholden to their donors and the corporate packs who help to finance

824
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:18,400
their campaign, how would our issues ever truly be represented by the presidential candidates?

825
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:22,760
Perhaps we need to strategize on how to get corporate and special interest money out of

826
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:27,200
politics so our voices can actually be heard.

827
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:29,440
So what do we do beyond voting?

828
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:34,400
Whether your vote stays with establishment candidates or ventures to a third party, I think the key

829
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:40,800
lesson is that we must recognize that the real work happens outside of the voting booth.

830
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:42,280
Rosa is right.

831
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:46,840
We shouldn't be waiting for a political superhero to come along, occupy the oval office,

832
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:49,760
and make the change that we so desperately need.

833
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:53,280
If we're waiting for a savior, we're going to be waiting forever.

834
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:58,160
The real work of supporting and saving our communities happens in those communities.

835
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:04,280
We all know that lasting substantive life-saving change always happens from the bottom up,

836
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:06,400
not the president down.

837
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,760
So tell us, how are you practicing your politic?

838
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:12,440
What are you doing to organize in your community?

839
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:18,720
You can tell us on IG@arcus.center or you can drop it in your five star review of the

840
00:48:18,720 --> 00:48:19,720
show.

841
00:48:19,720 --> 00:48:25,360
Shout out to our guest, Rosa Clemente, for sharing her time, her passion, and her wisdom

842
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:26,680
with us.

843
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:33,160
You can find Rosa on her website, rosaclomente.net, and you can find her on Instagram.

844
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:35,880
She's Black Porter Reacon PhD.

845
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:38,360
If you liked today's show, let us know.

846
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:45,640
Share the episode with your friends and family, and please visit us at arcuscenter.kzoo.edu.

847
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:48,440
Thanks for joining us on Beyond Poding.

848
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:49,440
See you next time.

849
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:51,440
[CHANTING]

850
00:48:51,440 --> 00:49:00,160
Beyond Poding is hosted by me, Emily Williams.

851
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:03,800
Keisha T.K. Dutas is our executive producer.

852
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:06,000
Kristen Bennett is our producer.

853
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:09,640
In this episode was written by Kristen Bennett and me.

854
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:13,320
Our song designer and engineer is Manifaces.

855
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:18,720
Marketing is courtesy of Fabian Mickins, and our music is provided by Motion Array.

856
00:49:18,720 --> 00:49:22,800
Special thanks to my team at the Arcus Center for Social Justice Leadership.

857
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:27,920
Quintin, Crimson, Tamara, Winter, and Kara.

858
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:32,560
Beyond Poding is a production of "Phelos Future Media."

859
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:42,560
[BLANK_AUDIO]