WEBVTT
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00:00:06.677Hello and welcome to Ask an Apologist. My name is Matthew Middleberg and I am
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00:00:11.118so excited for today's live stream open Q&A.
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00:00:17.437And I would say that we have two distinguished guests on our live stream today
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00:00:23.204because they are distinguished, but they are not guests. They are new members of our team.
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00:00:28.457And so we are so excited to have the Apologetics Inc. speaking team joining
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00:00:33.237us today, including our new team members, Lee Strobel and Mark Middleberg.
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00:00:35.661Thanks so much for joining us today, guys.
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00:00:40.530You bet. This is fun. I'm thrilled to be with you. Yeah. Awesome. Awesome.
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00:00:46.117So if you haven't heard, the Apologetics Inc. speaking team has two new members,
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00:00:50.269and And we've announced that this week on our website, which is apologetics.org.
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00:00:54.647And we are talking about it for the first time today, telling a little bit more
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00:01:00.750of the story of our partnership and what it means for Lee and Mark to be joining our team.
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00:01:05.977But we're also going to be doing a open Q&A. So if you have questions that you
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00:01:08.697want to submit to Lee or Mark,
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00:01:12.449or any of us, if you have questions about your faith, questions about God,
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00:01:16.927about the Bible, about the resurrection of Jesus, about anything spiritually
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00:01:20.287related, we will do our best to address those questions.
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00:01:23.467We might get a lot of questions today, so we might not be able to get to every
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00:01:27.113question, but we will do our best to address those.
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00:01:32.717So, Mike, I'd love for you just as the president of our organization to talk
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00:01:38.311about this partnership with Lee and Mark and how this kind of came together and yeah, take it away.
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00:01:43.457Yeah, in some ways it's hard to know what to say because it is a little surreal.
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00:01:50.123I mean, Mark and Lee, you both have influenced me and an entire generation of apologists.
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00:01:55.266Not to mention the countless number of people that have been reached by the
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00:01:56.596gospel through your work.
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00:02:02.776So it is in no small way to say it's an honor to be able to work with you guys.
00:02:02.776 -->
00:02:06.516And it's maybe a cliche to say a dream came true because I don't even know if
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00:02:10.996this was a dream. It just was kind of, you know, was it like three years ago
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00:02:13.626we had this crystal clear plan of, you know what?
00:02:14.021 -->
00:02:20.216In three years after retooling Apologetics, we're going to have Lee and Mark. But in some ways.
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00:02:27.046It is the fruit that's just coming from the kind of work that we've been doing
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00:02:31.466here at Apologetics Inc. Because what we've been working towards is creating
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00:02:35.512a platform to empower apologetics ministry.
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00:02:39.976As we understand that apologetics is a helpful tool, it's a servant of the gospel
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00:02:44.776right now. So many people are asking questions, and apologetics helps answer
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00:02:49.472those questions. And so the church, the world needs the gift that apologetics is right now.
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00:02:54.238And more than the world needs like the Mike Sherrard apologetics ministry,
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00:02:59.176it needs a platform to empower a wide range of apologetic ministry.
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00:03:01.181And so that's what we've been at. We're building here.
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00:03:05.453We recruited Alicia. She joined us, what, a little over two years ago, maybe.
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00:03:09.145Matthew followed. Three years ago. Three years. Golly.
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00:03:14.366Matthew followed soon thereafter. after and we've just been going forward,
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00:03:18.176you know, speaking events, creating content, but, but there's so much work to
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00:03:22.776be done right now, more work than any one person or any one ministry could accomplish.
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00:03:27.197So it seems that in a time like this, the Lord is just drawing people together
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00:03:33.406to work together, to pursue building God's kingdom, to reach the lost and equip the found.
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00:03:37.676And so guys, we're just thrilled that you've decided to partner with us and
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00:03:42.196a lot more is to A lot more is to be said, but it's an exciting time for us,
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00:03:45.614and it's an exciting time to just be involved in the work of the gospel, I think.
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00:03:49.384Well, we're thrilled to be involved with Apologetics Inc.
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00:03:53.154I think we sync up so well in terms of the mission God has given us,
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00:03:54.740the passion he's given us, the
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00:04:00.984gifts he's given us, the avenues he's given us to share the gospel and produce
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00:04:04.651resources that can defend the faith and share the faith around the world.
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00:04:06.531You guys at Apologetics Inc..
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00:04:12.202Inc. allow us to do things we couldn't do on our own. And I hope we can contribute
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00:04:14.408to achieving your mission as well.
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00:04:20.862We love the young apologists, Matthew, Alicia, and others who are part of the ministry here.
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00:04:28.611I would love to see young apologists continue to be mentored and given opportunities to be able to serve.
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00:04:34.372That's just awesome. I wish we could talk about some of the projects we've got in the works.
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00:04:39.542I know we can't yet because they're still confidential, but we had a meeting
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00:04:46.581in Florida a few weeks ago and talked about some initiatives that I think are unbelievable.
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00:04:52.022I mean, seriously, these are going to be news making initiatives and it allows
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00:04:56.335us to work together to amplify the ministry that God's given us.
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00:05:01.052And that's what makes me excited. So I can't wait in the coming weeks and months
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00:05:05.745to be able to share some of the news about things that we're going to be doing in the future.
00:05:06.290 -->
00:05:09.922And it's just a joy to work with you, Mike, and your leadership.
00:05:09.922 -->
00:05:14.092I mean, you provide the kind of leadership that's not my gift.
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00:05:18.903You know, I come from journalism and journalism, we didn't even have a sense.
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00:05:23.522I mean, it was just us. You know, I've never had a secretary.
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00:05:27.382I never had an assistant my whole life. If you answered your own phone,
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00:05:31.530you wrote your own correspondence. That's just who I am. I'm in my one-man show.
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00:05:35.147And that's fine, but it only takes you so far.
00:05:35.576 -->
00:05:40.586And by linking up with the infrastructure of Apologetics, Inc.
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00:05:44.481And the leadership, Mike, that you and Dave Englehart and others provide there,
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00:05:49.849I think we can go far beyond what we can do on our own. Yeah. Amen.
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00:05:54.144Yeah, I would just add that, you know, Lee and I have partnered with a lot of
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00:05:59.064different organizations in various ways, but there was just something unique
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00:06:02.676about Apologetics, Inc. and Mike, your leadership.
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00:06:07.524First of all, you're welcoming to other leaders and other speakers, other voices.
00:06:07.861 -->
00:06:12.586I think that alone sets it apart. It's not just one person's voice,
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00:06:18.954though you have a strong and clear voice and leadership, but you make room for other leaders.
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00:06:22.802And I think that's part of why I think God is blessing this ministry.
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00:06:26.918It's growing. I think it's going to keep growing. I think God's blessing it.
00:06:27.399 -->
00:06:32.708But the other thing, especially when we had the meetings Lee talked about a few weeks ago,
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00:06:38.223I heard you use two words several times at the table that kind of sum up the
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00:06:43.755ministry and the mission of Apologetics, Inc., and those were reach and equip, right?
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00:06:51.099And, I mean, Lee and I feel so at home with a ministry built on those values,
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00:06:57.428those initiatives, because Lee and I are both about reaching people through evangelism, through.
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00:07:03.129You know, outreach-oriented apologetics events, you know, reaching people,
00:07:03.129 -->
00:07:07.929but then also equipping Christians to do the same thing, to share their faith
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00:07:10.363in natural ways and to give a good answer.
00:07:11.239 -->
00:07:14.579And I was thinking about it this morning that in a lot of ways you could almost
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00:07:21.350sum up the great commission Jesus gave in Matthew 28, right before he ascended into heaven.
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00:07:25.702He said, before I go, he looked into the eyes of his disciples,
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00:07:30.363and really through their eyes, he looked into all of our eyes as disciples of Christ.
00:07:30.706 -->
00:07:35.077He said, before I go, here's what I want you to do. Here's why I'm leaving you here.
00:07:35.721 -->
00:07:39.599And he said, I want you to go into all the world, and you could almost sum it
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00:07:41.590up, and I want you to reach and equip.
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00:07:45.519I want you to go into all the world and make disciples. Well,
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00:07:49.845that's evangelism, that's reaching, that's sharing the good news of the gospel,
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00:07:55.020but then teach them to obey everything I've commanded you and baptize them and so on.
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00:07:58.468Well, that's more the equipping, discipling side.
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00:08:03.175And I just see a healthy emphasis in both of those areas here.
00:08:03.605 -->
00:08:06.589And it resonates with me, I know it does with Lee,
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00:08:12.324And so it's just so natural for us to work with you guys in tandem.
00:08:12.324 -->
00:08:15.969It just kind of feels like we're slipping into a place we were meant to be.
00:08:16.451 -->
00:08:19.814And so I'm thrilled about it. I'm excited about the future. I'm excited about
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00:08:22.984all kinds of things we're planning and thinking about.
00:08:22.984 -->
00:08:28.974And I need to add one other PS. I'm excited to be working officially now with
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00:08:34.844my own son, Matthew, who's been emerging as a leader in this organization and.
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00:08:37.034Does a great job on this show.
00:08:37.034 -->
00:08:40.164I've watched the show. I actually was on the show once before,
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00:08:42.093but the Ask an Apologist.
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00:08:46.191But Matthew, you do a great job and it's fun to partner with you as well.
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00:08:50.544Thanks, Dad. Well, I, you know, I was going to say for me, it is a dream come
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00:08:54.854true because, you know, I've wanted to to work officially on the same team with
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00:08:59.564you for really a long time now and have been kind of gunning for,
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00:09:02.964for this to happen at some point in our in our careers.
00:09:02.964 -->
00:09:07.144And so I'm so excited just to be able to work with you and to work with Uncle
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00:09:14.704Lee, who I've grown up around and hearing you and both of you speak at conferences
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00:09:16.885and different things throughout my life.
00:09:17.332 -->
00:09:22.184And so, yeah, it's just a joy to be together and doing things together.
00:09:22.184 -->
00:09:27.594And yeah, it's going to be great. So I wondered if maybe you guys could talk
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00:09:31.324a little bit about your relationship with each other, because you guys have
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00:09:32.850been ministry partners for.
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00:09:37.720A very long time, and you've been best friends for a very long time.
00:09:38.202 -->
00:09:41.540And so, yeah, maybe you could just talk a little bit about how you met,
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00:09:46.229how you work together, where you guys have spoken around the world together,
00:09:46.692 -->
00:09:48.416and yeah, just talk about that a little bit.
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00:09:52.352Yeah, well, I was a journalist in Chicago and came to faith.
00:09:52.352 -->
00:09:57.382I was an atheist, and because I investigated the evidence for Christianity,
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00:10:03.751became a Christian, and felt God's calling to leave that and to work on the staff of a local church.
00:10:03.919 -->
00:10:10.288And so I took a 60% pay cut and left journalism, which is all I knew,
00:10:10.706 -->
00:10:13.772and I joined the staff of this church. And I had two roles at that church.
00:10:13.772 -->
00:10:17.125It was a large church. At the time, it was the second largest church in the country.
00:10:17.677 -->
00:10:24.309And one role was I oversaw 750 volunteers in various ministries in the church.
00:10:24.772 -->
00:10:28.642The other role is I was the assistant to Mark Middleburg, the new evangelism
00:10:28.642 -->
00:10:32.052director at the church. And that's how we met. We were introduced.
00:10:32.052 -->
00:10:37.092I was introduced to Mark on a retreat even before we joined the staff and told
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00:10:38.183we'd be working together.
00:10:38.591 -->
00:10:42.801And so Mark mentored me in theology for two years.
00:10:43.502 -->
00:10:46.742I had no formal training in theology. He really trained me.
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00:10:50.812And in apologetics, because that's his background, a philosophy of religion
00:10:50.812 -->
00:10:53.529degree from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School.
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00:10:58.692So I was mentored by Mark for several years and eventually became a teaching
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00:11:03.062pastor at the church and started writing books. And so that's kind of how we
00:11:03.062 -->
00:11:05.782got started. But we hit it off because, as Mark likes to say,
00:11:06.122 -->
00:11:07.214we're joined at the brain.
00:11:08.302 -->
00:11:09.722We finish each other's thoughts.
00:11:10.922 -->
00:11:14.552I don't think there's a day that goes by, even though we live in different states,
00:11:14.552 -->
00:11:17.382that we don't talk on the phone at least every day.
00:11:17.742 -->
00:11:21.662Right, Mark? I mean, I don't think a day goes by that we don't talk.
00:11:21.982 -->
00:11:24.622Multiple times sometimes. Multiple times.
00:11:25.970 -->
00:11:32.102So we enjoy, you know, ministry is so much better when you do it with people you love and respect.
00:11:32.582 -->
00:11:35.422And that's why it's great to join Apologetics, Inc.
00:11:36.282 -->
00:11:40.592With the folks here that we love and respect. And to do ministry together makes
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00:11:42.073it all the more exciting.
00:11:42.800 -->
00:11:47.811We've always said it's more fun and fulfilling and fruitful when we do ministry together.
00:11:48.151 -->
00:11:54.973I feel like it really is sort of a divinely appointed Jonathan and David kind of friendship.
00:11:55.826 -->
00:12:00.022And it started almost immediately. I mean, we were introduced to each other.
00:12:00.306 -->
00:12:04.375It's funny, I was speaking in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan last weekend,
00:12:04.782 -->
00:12:07.916where they have almost two inches of snow. It's crazy up there.
00:12:08.381 -->
00:12:13.441But it was weird to think we actually met there, and it was at a staff camp for the church.
00:12:13.441 -->
00:12:16.421And we were introduced to each other, and we said, well, if we're going to work
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00:12:19.631together, we might as well sit down and get to know each other.
00:12:19.631 -->
00:12:25.601And we sat on a bench by a river and spent, I think, a couple hours just getting to know each other.
00:12:25.601 -->
00:12:30.131And Lee tells me his testimony. I go, man, I'm writing a master's thesis right
00:12:30.131 -->
00:12:32.161now, and that illustrates a point.
00:12:32.161 -->
00:12:37.551So I was actually the first person to publish Lee's story in a master's thesis
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00:12:40.691that, man, many, many, many people have not read.
00:12:43.091 -->
00:12:46.071I think about eight or nine people have read that. I've read it.
00:12:46.631 -->
00:12:50.431Yeah. You read it twice. You count for two of those nine. Yeah, exactly.
00:12:51.631 -->
00:12:55.911I don't think I've read it. I only read the part that I have read. No, you edited it for me.
00:12:56.371 -->
00:13:00.057I had you edit it. I thought, I got a guy who knows how to edit here.
00:13:01.311 -->
00:13:05.201Oh, that's right, I did. I tried. I forgot that. And it was right there on that
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00:13:10.451park bench or bench by the river. We started at least sharing his testimony,
00:13:10.451 -->
00:13:13.501and he starts talking about what day he came to Christ.
00:13:14.099 -->
00:13:18.372And I'm going, it was November 8th, you said. And I said, I came to Christ in
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00:13:20.901early November, five years before that.
00:13:21.290 -->
00:13:24.082I went and got my Bible. And this is just one of those weird,
00:13:24.622 -->
00:13:28.652funny things. But found out the first day we met, we found out we had come to
00:13:28.652 -->
00:13:31.549Christ five years to the day apart from each other.
00:13:32.970 -->
00:13:37.322And I'm not a numerology guy. I don't really read a lot into that,
00:13:37.322 -->
00:13:38.922but it was just kind of a cool thing.
00:13:38.922 -->
00:13:43.002And so we celebrate our spiritual birthdays together every November.
00:13:43.002 -->
00:13:47.832And it's just been fun and Lee, you know, I helped mentor him in theology,
00:13:47.832 -->
00:13:52.062he helped mentor me in writing, you know, he's such a natural writer,
00:13:52.062 -->
00:13:55.270he started, what did you start your first newsletter when you were like 12 or
00:13:55.579 -->
00:13:57.602a little newspaper in your neighborhood?
00:13:59.648 -->
00:14:04.122Yeah, newspaper in his in my basement on a print list the Arlington Bulletin,
00:14:05.610 -->
00:14:12.642right, the Arlington Bulletin I'm sure everyone's heard of that yeah Oh, yeah, it was huge.
00:14:12.642 -->
00:14:18.562But anyway, we're just kind of partners and spiritually codependent and encourage each other.
00:14:19.882 -->
00:14:23.355And I know Matthew since he was a toddler.
00:14:24.962 -->
00:14:27.813Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.
00:14:28.376 -->
00:14:31.502Yeah, there's lots of pictures of us together when I was a kid.
00:14:32.522 -->
00:14:34.335Yeah, which means I'm really old.
00:14:35.920 -->
00:14:40.092Yeah yeah lee i was about to say how many years we've been doing ministry i
00:14:40.092 -->
00:14:43.594used to kind of brag because it was like we've been doing ministry a long time
00:14:43.873 -->
00:14:49.362but you reach a point where the number is so high it's like stupid you guys are ancient right so uh,
00:14:50.602 -->
00:14:52.842so i quit giving quit giving the number,
00:14:54.422 -->
00:14:58.842enough enough time people start hearing that number start going well shouldn't you be tired?
00:14:59.702 -->
00:15:04.014Isn't it time to hang it up? It was like that story in, was it Little Rock Lee?
00:15:04.952 -->
00:15:08.726Where you flew in and the pastor said, what a woman had said.
00:15:09.549 -->
00:15:12.574Yeah. The pastor picked me up from the airport. We're driving to the event.
00:15:12.574 -->
00:15:16.794And he said, yeah, I told a young woman at our church today that Lee Strobel's
00:15:16.794 -->
00:15:20.504going to make. And she said, oh, the guy who wrote the case for Christ, he's still living?
00:15:23.464 -->
00:15:25.014So I'm glad to be alive.
00:15:27.534 -->
00:15:32.294We're glad you're alive too. And friendship is such a gift.
00:15:32.294 -->
00:15:37.214So this is, you know, we're in some ways I feel uncomfortable how complimentary
00:15:37.214 -->
00:15:40.814we've all been towards each other right now. Like we're, but it's,
00:15:40.814 -->
00:15:43.074it's true and it's honest and it's genuine.
00:15:43.434 -->
00:15:47.304The, the gratitude that, that we feel towards you.
00:15:47.304 -->
00:15:50.944And then looking at two guys who have persevered in ministry,
00:15:50.944 -->
00:15:56.624not only have your individual lives held fast to the gospel and your marriages
00:15:56.624 -->
00:16:00.097have held fast to the gospel, but your friendship has too.
00:16:00.579 -->
00:16:05.234And a friendship that has endured those many years, I'm sure you've had ups
00:16:05.234 -->
00:16:07.760and downs and bumps. Maybe not. Maybe you've never had a fight. I don't know.
00:16:08.102 -->
00:16:11.984But having a friendship last that long is a gift.
00:16:11.984 -->
00:16:17.844And so more than even the books that you guys write and the kinds of talks that
00:16:17.844 -->
00:16:21.814you give, your lives have demonstrated the truth and the power of the gospel,
00:16:21.814 -->
00:16:24.714which is, again, why we're delighted to work with you,
00:16:25.114 -->
00:16:29.714learn from you, and celebrate together what the Lord is doing in our time.
00:16:29.871 -->
00:16:35.682And Mark and I have always said we need to write a book about male friendship among Christians.
00:16:35.798 -->
00:16:39.574You know, it's such an important aspect of what it means to be a follower of
00:16:39.574 -->
00:16:43.614Jesus, to have brothers and sisters in Christ. Brothers and sisters suggest
00:16:43.614 -->
00:16:46.280these are close relationships. These are friendships.
00:16:46.762 -->
00:16:50.004And there is something special to have those kind of relationships.
00:16:50.004 -->
00:16:54.764And we're building those with, we just feel such a kinship with Apologetics
00:16:54.764 -->
00:16:56.748Inc. as an organization because of the people.
00:16:57.436 -->
00:17:00.579Well, and we built this thing on something I learned from my friend,
00:17:00.579 -->
00:17:03.029Scott Klusendorf, vocational friendship.
00:17:03.464 -->
00:17:07.149There's different ways to structure an organization, and we could structure
00:17:07.149 -->
00:17:10.709this thing with a very heavy hand, you know, big brother looking over your shoulder.
00:17:10.709 -->
00:17:14.639How many hours did you work this week and create a bunch of rules and protocols
00:17:14.639 -->
00:17:15.299and all that kind of stuff?
00:17:15.299 -->
00:17:19.549And that's not to say we're not ordered as a ministry, but really the thing
00:17:19.549 -->
00:17:22.939that holds us together is this thing called vocational friendship.
00:17:22.939 -->
00:17:26.829And it is in a kind of accountability, creates a high level of trust,
00:17:26.829 -->
00:17:30.889excitement, and just camaraderie that's needed in this kind of work.
00:17:30.889 -->
00:17:33.830Because this work is joyful, but it is hard.
00:17:34.306 -->
00:17:38.709And when you're out there on the front lines defending the gospel and then the
00:17:38.709 -->
00:17:41.973kinds of questions that you get, you see the brokenness that exists.
00:17:42.316 -->
00:17:46.739You see the impact of sin. You see opposition. I mean, it can be hard work.
00:17:46.739 -->
00:17:51.709So it is a gift to have, you know, a strong, tight group of friends that are
00:17:51.709 -->
00:17:55.629committed to the same work. And yeah, so that's why you guys fit right in and,
00:17:56.129 -->
00:17:58.869almost already feels like family. I know it already does for Matthew,
00:17:58.869 -->
00:18:01.213but for the rest of us, it does pretty quickly.
00:18:02.874 -->
00:18:08.679Absolutely. Well, I want to ask a couple more questions to you guys about your
00:18:08.679 -->
00:18:13.389ministry and history. But I do want to point out again that this is a open Q&A
00:18:13.389 -->
00:18:16.829live stream. So we've got a couple people that have submitted questions.
00:18:17.329 -->
00:18:19.409Walt Vanden Langenberg.
00:18:19.989 -->
00:18:22.619I never knew there was a name that was harder to spell than Middleburg,
00:18:22.619 -->
00:18:27.329but that's quite a good one there. I'm glad you got the ERG.
00:18:27.689 -->
00:18:30.035That's good. B-E-R-G. That's the correct spelling.
00:18:30.441 -->
00:18:34.069So you put this in before the live stream started. So thank you for that.
00:18:34.069 -->
00:18:37.278And I see your questions. Well, I'll ask those soon.
00:18:37.601 -->
00:18:42.169And thank you, Anna, for listening even while you're on a deadline.
00:18:42.169 -->
00:18:43.813So I appreciate that. Thank you.
00:18:44.629 -->
00:18:50.270Yes, it's a priority. It should be a priority to be on the Ask It About Live stream. Work can wait.
00:18:50.930 -->
00:18:55.110Work can wait. Deadlines can wait. You got a live stream to watch,
00:18:55.110 -->
00:19:00.064which also means if you have friends that you think could enjoy today's conversation,
00:19:00.307 -->
00:19:03.326feel free to send the live stream to them, repost it on your socials.
00:19:03.535 -->
00:19:07.366We have this live streaming on YouTube, on Facebook, and on X.
00:19:07.709 -->
00:19:12.100So feel free to retweet if it's on X. Feel free to share on Facebook and to
00:19:12.100 -->
00:19:17.610send the link on YouTube, because we'd love for as many people to join us today as have questions.
00:19:17.610 -->
00:19:20.750So before I get into some of your questions that you've submitted,
00:19:20.750 -->
00:19:25.290though, I had a couple more questions that I wanted to ask specifically on Lee
00:19:25.290 -->
00:19:27.090and my dad on their ministry.
00:19:27.090 -->
00:19:31.280So dad, let me just start with you, because you are an apologist and you do
00:19:31.280 -->
00:19:36.250apologetics, but what a lot of people know you for and kind of your heart for
00:19:36.250 -->
00:19:41.795apologetics is evangelism and your work in your Confident Faith book and things like that.
00:19:42.917 -->
00:19:46.931Sometimes, not always, sometimes there's a disconnect for people that are interested
00:19:46.931 -->
00:19:48.884in apologetics between the two of those.
00:19:49.343 -->
00:19:52.704And people who are interested in apologetics do so for their own sake.
00:19:53.105 -->
00:19:56.146What would you say to those who are interested in apologetics?
00:19:56.419 -->
00:20:00.744What would you have everyone who's interested in apologetics know about evangelism?
00:20:01.812 -->
00:20:06.371Thank you. That's a good question. I would say that the most important thing
00:20:06.371 -->
00:20:12.491for my apologetics friends, apologist friends, would be that the ultimate goal
00:20:12.491 -->
00:20:14.862biblically is not to win an argument.
00:20:15.263 -->
00:20:17.636It's to win the person to Christ.
00:20:18.234 -->
00:20:22.011Now, I think winning arguments is an important part of that,
00:20:22.791 -->
00:20:25.117giving good reasons, standing for truth.
00:20:25.570 -->
00:20:30.701But I view apologetics as the handmaiden to evangelism. And I view the task
00:20:30.701 -->
00:20:35.021of apologetics, I often draw it on a flip chart where there's a person in the
00:20:35.021 -->
00:20:39.211gospel and we're trying to help this person move to the cross of Christ.
00:20:39.624 -->
00:20:43.850But there's all these intellectual roadblocks. I draw little brick walls in between.
00:20:44.349 -->
00:20:49.684I mean, I think the goal of apologetics, people love to say you can't talk someone into the kingdom.
00:20:50.398 -->
00:20:55.031Okay, that's true, but you can use arguments.
00:20:55.031 -->
00:21:00.701As Paul said, we demolish arguments, and we take every thought and make it captive
00:21:00.701 -->
00:21:06.451and obedient to Christ. And Paul said we persuade people, and Peter told every
00:21:06.451 -->
00:21:08.687one of us to be ready to give an answer and so on.
00:21:08.914 -->
00:21:12.484So I view the role of the apologetics as clearing the path,
00:21:12.971 -->
00:21:18.311and just kind of bringing down these brick walls and opening the way so that
00:21:18.311 -->
00:21:22.101the person can ultimately come to the foot of the cross and realize,
00:21:22.101 -->
00:21:24.011okay, not only is this true—.
00:21:24.846 -->
00:21:29.577But the central truth it teaches is that I'm a sinner in need of a Savior,
00:21:30.129 -->
00:21:33.490and thank God he sent the Savior and he died for me.
00:21:33.821 -->
00:21:39.339He paid the penalty for my sins on the cross, and I need now not just to believe
00:21:39.339 -->
00:21:43.120he's the Savior of the world, but to ask him to be my Savior.
00:21:43.590 -->
00:21:49.939So I think apologetics leads to evangelism, but ultimately the goal is to bring
00:21:49.939 -->
00:21:55.810people to the gospel, which Romans 1.16 says is the power of God unto salvation.
00:21:56.277 -->
00:21:59.839And that's, again, that's what Lee and I have been doing. I know it's what this
00:21:59.839 -->
00:22:02.829ministry does, but we've seen it over the years.
00:22:02.829 -->
00:22:07.839How many times someone, Lee and I did a Q&A once in Chicago,
00:22:07.839 -->
00:22:11.818and we took one last question, and the guy asked his question,
00:22:12.190 -->
00:22:17.692and it was one that God had been leading Lee to prepare on for the previous two or three weeks.
00:22:18.133 -->
00:22:21.244So I was kind of emceeing like you are right now, Matthew. I said,
00:22:21.744 -->
00:22:24.698that's a good question. I think I'll let Lee answer that one,
00:22:24.872 -->
00:22:26.713because I knew he had spent hours on it.
00:22:27.177 -->
00:22:32.999And Lee answers the question, and the guy said, he was standing there in the front of this chapel,
00:22:33.557 -->
00:22:37.648And he said, thank you. And as he's sitting down, he said, that was the last
00:22:37.648 -->
00:22:39.780question that was keeping me from Christ.
00:22:40.688 -->
00:22:43.042And that night he gave his life to Christ.
00:22:44.068 -->
00:22:48.470And so that's how I view apologetics. In fact, that's how I got into it.
00:22:48.812 -->
00:22:53.328Sharing my faith, people raising hard questions. Oh, I better study that,
00:22:53.665 -->
00:22:59.328answer the question, get back to the gospel with the goal of leading people to Christ. Wow.
00:22:59.928 -->
00:23:03.838I love your analogy that you gave about, you know, there's a person and there's
00:23:03.838 -->
00:23:06.718a gospel and then there's like this thing. The way it's interesting because
00:23:06.718 -->
00:23:09.588listening to you, I'm like, wow, it's like we have the same kind of vision because
00:23:09.588 -->
00:23:12.828I always envision it as like there's a brick wall there when you actually use
00:23:12.828 -->
00:23:14.503that word. I was like, no way.
00:23:15.108 -->
00:23:18.418And there's a person and there's God. And I kind of think of my job is just
00:23:18.418 -->
00:23:21.358to see if I can knock down a couple of those bricks so they can start to see
00:23:21.358 -->
00:23:23.405maybe there is something on the other side.
00:23:23.643 -->
00:23:27.468Maybe there is something through there that's good or that I'm actually interested in.
00:23:27.548 -->
00:23:30.296And so I just kind of think of my job is just knock down a couple of those bricks
00:23:30.540 -->
00:23:33.538so the light starts to shine through a little bit. And so it's interesting to
00:23:33.538 -->
00:23:35.636hear you use that similar analogy.
00:23:35.996 -->
00:23:40.508That's why my favorite song is The Wall by Kansas. And I could get going on
00:23:40.508 -->
00:23:45.408Kansas, Mike, but I won't. So let that one go. Please.
00:23:47.668 -->
00:23:52.036The best rock band ever in America. But I digress. It's all right.
00:23:52.748 -->
00:23:55.948You want me to play Carry On for you real quick? Grab one of those guitars.
00:23:55.948 -->
00:23:58.276Please, would you? Thank you.
00:23:59.314 -->
00:24:03.733That's so fun because I just taught this weekend at my church for the residency
00:24:03.733 -->
00:24:09.063program, which is like training people in ministry, and they asked me to do intro to apologetics.
00:24:09.063 -->
00:24:13.173And so I gave that extended bridge illustration is what I called it.
00:24:13.173 -->
00:24:18.371But I credited you of this idea of people want to cross the bridge to faith
00:24:18.643 -->
00:24:21.473to Christ, but there are these things that stop them and
00:24:21.853 -->
00:24:25.573these things that maybe even stop them from wanting to cross the bridge because
00:24:25.873 -->
00:24:29.297it's an objection about the goodness of God or the goodness of Christianity.
00:24:29.755 -->
00:24:35.403And part of what we want to do is to remove those so that people can see the
00:24:35.403 -->
00:24:37.212truth so that they can want it as well.
00:24:37.682 -->
00:24:43.663Yeah, that's great. Good. Awesome. Well, let me ask one more question to Lee
00:24:43.663 -->
00:24:47.763as well, because we've got some questions that are being submitted,
00:24:47.763 -->
00:24:49.712which is great, and we want to jump into some of those.
00:24:50.223 -->
00:24:55.653But Lee, one thing that I often want to do when I talk to people about your
00:24:55.653 -->
00:25:00.443ministry is help them to know that you actually have written more than one book.
00:25:00.443 -->
00:25:05.448The Case for Christ is actually not your only book that you've written.
00:25:05.767 -->
00:25:07.493You've actually written a lot of books.
00:25:07.913 -->
00:25:12.047Really? He has? A lot of really, I know. It's shocking. It's shocking.
00:25:12.430 -->
00:25:15.643So, well, to some people it is because they've heard of The Case for Christ.
00:25:15.643 -->
00:25:18.543Of course, that's the one that a lot of people have heard of because of your
00:25:18.543 -->
00:25:20.643story, because of these things.
00:25:20.643 -->
00:25:24.673But actually, you have a lot of really good resources that are available.
00:25:24.673 -->
00:25:30.828So what is what is sort of maybe one of your favorite books that people are not as familiar with?
00:25:31.838 -->
00:25:35.818Oh, golly. Yeah. Well, I've done more, I think 57 books.
00:25:36.838 -->
00:25:42.398And now some are derivative, you know, of others, but like a student edition of a book.
00:25:42.398 -->
00:25:46.438So it doesn't count as a separate book. But yeah, I mean, my new book is called
00:25:46.438 -->
00:25:50.258Seeing the Supernatural, which deals, what is the evidence? There really is
00:25:50.258 -->
00:25:53.068a world beyond what we can see and touch and put in a test tube.
00:25:53.724 -->
00:25:58.268And I did another one called Is God Real? Which looks at, you know,
00:25:58.268 -->
00:26:00.661it's interesting. Oh, there you go.
00:26:00.824 -->
00:26:04.404The i found out there oh there's this guy there it is,
00:26:06.598 -->
00:26:10.838oh my goodness i wrote that was not that was not playing believe it or not just it's literally.
00:26:17.018 -->
00:26:17.738Here's relational,
00:26:22.126 -->
00:26:26.178well i found out that 200 times a second around the clock someone on the planet
00:26:26.178 -->
00:26:30.014is typing into a computer search engine, basically the question, is God real?
00:26:30.613 -->
00:26:34.618And so I did that book to kind of answer that question, look at evidence from
00:26:34.618 -->
00:26:38.378science, from history, philosophy, kind of put it in a level that we can all
00:26:38.378 -->
00:26:42.010understand because I'm, you know, my, the approach I take in my books.
00:26:43.028 -->
00:26:47.378I go out and interview world's leading scholars with PhDs from Cambridge and
00:26:47.378 -->
00:26:51.769Oxford and Brandeis and Princeton, these major universities.
00:26:52.070 -->
00:26:56.068And I ask them the questions I had when I was a skeptic, an atheist,
00:26:56.068 -->
00:27:00.828and see if they can give me good answers. And so I get to access the minds of
00:27:00.828 -->
00:27:03.442some of the most brilliant defenders of the faith in the world.
00:27:03.663 -->
00:27:07.788And as someone once said, put the cookies on the bottom shelf.
00:27:07.788 -->
00:27:11.738In other words, as a journalist, my role is to communicate this information
00:27:11.738 -->
00:27:13.851in a way that everybody can understand, including me.
00:27:14.350 -->
00:27:20.638And so that's been an exciting process. I will mention that I've done several
00:27:20.638 -->
00:27:25.337films as well. I think I've done seven documentaries and a feature film or two.
00:27:25.971 -->
00:27:31.158And I have a new one that's coming out on April the 30th in movie theaters nationwide.
00:27:31.158 -->
00:27:34.410I'm an executive producer of it. It's called The Story of Everything.
00:27:35.042 -->
00:27:39.718And it deals with what is the evidence from science that there really is a supernatural
00:27:39.718 -->
00:27:42.119creator of the universe and of life,
00:27:42.566 -->
00:27:47.178and it kind of tracks my book is god real in some of the topics we look at the
00:27:47.178 -->
00:27:50.396origin the universe of fine tuning of the universe the information and,
00:27:50.844 -->
00:27:55.938biology and so forth and it's got some great experts in that movie some of the
00:27:55.938 -->
00:27:57.665best in the country james tour.
00:27:58.608 -->
00:28:03.608Steve meyer with a phd from cambridge j wesley richards just some really brilliant
00:28:03.608 -->
00:28:06.375and some skeptics some some john lennox,
00:28:07.088 -->
00:28:11.988you know john lennox is in it as well two PhDs so three I hope people,
00:28:12.468 -->
00:28:17.528if they want to see the trailer that they can go to thestoryofeverything.film,
00:28:17.975 -->
00:28:21.948and you can watch the trailer and I hope I hope people invite their spiritually
00:28:21.948 -->
00:28:25.738curious friends you know Alicia and Mark were talking about those spiritual
00:28:25.738 -->
00:28:28.482sticking points that hold people up in their journey toward God,
00:28:29.127 -->
00:28:34.251And for many people, it involves science. How do I know this stuff makes sense scientifically?
00:28:34.646 -->
00:28:37.818And so if you have a friend like that, I hope you'll bring him to the theater
00:28:37.818 -->
00:28:41.433to see this film. I think it'll generate a lot of great discussions.
00:28:41.921 -->
00:28:45.708I'm just very pleased with the way it presents the evidence in an in-depth way
00:28:45.708 -->
00:28:47.635and yet very accessible, I hope, as well.
00:28:48.948 -->
00:28:54.018Lee and I saw the premiere of that together, and it's a heavyweight film.
00:28:54.018 -->
00:28:59.686I mean, this is not fluffy lights. I mean, they talk to top scholars,
00:29:00.185 -->
00:29:03.888and people are going to go deep with this thing, but I think it's going to really,
00:29:04.348 -->
00:29:06.135knock down a lot of those roadblocks.
00:29:06.823 -->
00:29:09.882I don't know if you answered the question about what book people should read,
00:29:10.189 -->
00:29:11.780but I'm going to throw in a quick thing.
00:29:12.268 -->
00:29:18.078One of my favorite books of Lee's that is less known, but I think so helpful,
00:29:18.078 -->
00:29:23.408is The Case for Grace, which is stories of life change.
00:29:23.408 -->
00:29:27.428I think it's some of Lee's best writing ever, but I find a lot of people don't
00:29:27.428 -->
00:29:34.373know about that book, and it's just so powerful of miraculous ways God changed lives.
00:29:34.698 -->
00:29:38.108And the other one a lot of people don't know about is one that Lee wrote with
00:29:38.108 -->
00:29:45.018his wife, Leslie, about spiritual mismatch, how to survive a marriage where,
00:29:45.878 -->
00:29:48.497two spouses believe different things.
00:29:48.735 -->
00:29:50.441One's a Christian, one's not.
00:29:50.766 -->
00:29:54.255And of course, Lee and Leslie lived that for a couple of years.
00:29:55.228 -->
00:30:00.338Those are a couple books less known that I would want to elevate people's awareness
00:30:00.338 -->
00:30:02.434of. I'm just pleased you didn't bring up my novel.
00:30:05.308 -->
00:30:09.908It was good. I think you were the only person to read it other than Matthew. Yeah.
00:30:11.061 -->
00:30:16.028It just bombed. It was a John Grisham type thriller. Apparently it didn't thrill a lot of people. So,
00:30:18.128 -->
00:30:22.368I actually bought a case of them, a hardcover of the hardcover edition for my
00:30:22.368 -->
00:30:28.105great grandkids, because I know nobody's going to have this book around anymore. I mean, it bombed.
00:30:28.372 -->
00:30:31.648I just want them to be able to say, hey, your great grandpa did write a novel
00:30:31.648 -->
00:30:34.021because my daughter's a novel, writes great novels.
00:30:34.375 -->
00:30:36.140But that's not my forte.
00:30:36.768 -->
00:30:38.032It was called the ambition.
00:30:38.996 -->
00:30:45.466Yes. It's a great story. Well, just to give my favorite actually,
00:30:45.466 -->
00:30:48.986it hasn't even come up yet, but it was actually, I've shared this with Lee when
00:30:48.986 -->
00:30:52.736I think we first met, maybe, I don't even know it was, it was over 10 years ago now at this point,
00:30:53.237 -->
00:30:55.406probably 2014 or something.
00:30:55.406 -->
00:30:58.486But I didn't know anything about apologetics growing up.
00:30:58.486 -->
00:31:02.096I was just a kid who just felt like if some people ask me questions of the Bible,
00:31:02.096 -->
00:31:03.576I've got to be able to answer them.
00:31:03.576 -->
00:31:05.876And so I didn't know about apologetics. I didn't know about theology.
00:31:05.876 -->
00:31:07.956And so I just scoured the Bible for answers.
00:31:07.956 -->
00:31:11.636And that's how I got me. And so I was like, if somebody asked me about suffering,
00:31:11.636 -->
00:31:15.236I got to be able to answer it. If they asked about what do you need to do to
00:31:15.236 -->
00:31:18.736be saved, whatever it might be, I just need to answer it. And so I would just
00:31:18.736 -->
00:31:20.033do that. And I formed a little notebook.
00:31:20.683 -->
00:31:23.565And I answered these questions, put the question, I would just answer them.
00:31:23.565 -->
00:31:25.605It was just straight Bible verses because I didn't know about all these other
00:31:25.605 -->
00:31:26.412books that were out there.
00:31:26.876 -->
00:31:31.055And then I got to college and I had to do a paper. It was one of my Bible classes.
00:31:31.055 -->
00:31:35.325And I went to the library and I pulled the case for faith off the shelf.
00:31:35.325 -->
00:31:37.455It was just one of the resources I was going to use for this paper.
00:31:37.455 -->
00:31:38.685And I'm like, what's this?
00:31:38.685 -->
00:31:40.955You know, I'm just the book that I pulled off and I'm looking at it and I'm
00:31:40.955 -->
00:31:45.805looking at all these topics. I'm like, oh, these are the topics I've been answering.
00:31:45.805 -->
00:31:49.275Like, and there's other people answering these questions. I had no idea.
00:31:49.275 -->
00:31:51.707And I flip it over and it says apologetics on the back.
00:31:52.073 -->
00:31:55.025And also there's all of these names of people and they're answering the questions.
00:31:55.025 -->
00:31:58.465And I'm like, that's what I've been doing. It's apologetics. It's a whole field.
00:31:58.465 -->
00:32:01.455And I had no idea.
00:32:01.455 -->
00:32:03.665That's how I discovered apologetics. When I pulled the case rate,
00:32:03.665 -->
00:32:06.655then I would just, I just scoured that. I could not put the book down.
00:32:06.655 -->
00:32:10.145I'm like, oh my goodness. Cause I never met anybody who was answering any of
00:32:10.145 -->
00:32:13.481these questions. I just thought it was just like, you know, it was just what I did.
00:32:13.794 -->
00:32:18.055And so I finally had a name to what I was already doing. and I saw people with
00:32:18.055 -->
00:32:21.115all these things and they had 85 PhDs after their names. I'm like,
00:32:21.115 -->
00:32:26.339well, God, clearly this is never, these are only for the elite that do this kind of a thing.
00:32:26.745 -->
00:32:30.465And I was just like, okay, whatever. But I just, so the case for faith is hands
00:32:30.465 -->
00:32:32.463down my favorite. It's the one I recommend.
00:32:32.864 -->
00:32:35.705I just recommend, I was just at the University of Massachusetts just a couple
00:32:35.705 -->
00:32:37.875weeks back speaking there on why I'm not atheist. And they said,
00:32:37.875 -->
00:32:40.654any book recommendations to put on the table? And I'm like, case for faith.
00:32:41.043 -->
00:32:44.375That's kind of my, that's kind of my go-to. It deals with so many of the big
00:32:44.375 -->
00:32:47.375topics And it was the transformational one for me.
00:32:47.375 -->
00:32:52.833So that's my one because it played such a role in me discovering apologetics.
00:32:53.665 -->
00:32:58.405And the field that that's actually who Alicia already was. And to be even the
00:32:58.405 -->
00:33:01.857fact that I'm a full-time apologist is still beyond me because I never would have thought.
00:33:02.254 -->
00:33:05.642That I'd be here. So that's my favorite. Well, I remember meeting you back then
00:33:05.642 -->
00:33:07.392is at least 10 years ago, as you said.
00:33:07.392 -->
00:33:11.482And you were, I think, just graduating from something or there was something.
00:33:11.482 -->
00:33:14.832I just started with RZIM, actually. So I was just, I just graduated from Oxford.
00:33:14.832 -->
00:33:20.632And then I was like about a year into RZIM. And you told your testimony and,
00:33:21.252 -->
00:33:24.484I said to Leslie, I said, wow, she is so sharp.
00:33:25.796 -->
00:33:30.782I mean, I was so, and I remembered you all these years. And when I found out
00:33:30.782 -->
00:33:35.512you were part of Apologetics, Inc., that was like just another sign that almost coming full circle.
00:33:35.512 -->
00:33:43.232That you're a very sharp, very winsome, very accomplished, very gifted communicator,
00:33:44.012 -->
00:33:49.222and apologist. And so it's another reason that for me, Apologetics,
00:33:49.222 -->
00:33:50.260Inc. is just a great home.
00:33:50.935 -->
00:33:53.592It is wild, right, that we would end up working together, right?
00:33:54.112 -->
00:33:57.152Pulling the book off the shelf to being out here we are together.
00:33:57.152 -->
00:33:59.472You just never know how God works things out. Absolutely.
00:34:00.131 -->
00:34:02.692Well, and I want to get into some of these submitted questions,
00:34:02.692 -->
00:34:08.462but I have to give my underrated book from you guys, which is my favorite of
00:34:08.462 -->
00:34:12.530yours is the one you wrote together of The Unexpected Adventure.
00:34:13.000 -->
00:34:17.331And this book is amazing because it is stories.
00:34:17.627 -->
00:34:24.982It's like 40, 40 stories. 42. 42 stories from each of your lives of evangelism,
00:34:24.982 -->
00:34:29.080of you guys sharing your faith and the lessons that you learned from those stories.
00:34:29.972 -->
00:34:33.601I read the book. I had an apologetics group in a college club,
00:34:33.932 -->
00:34:37.382and I read it afterwards, and I was hitting myself because I was like,
00:34:37.382 -->
00:34:40.232why did I not read this during when I was doing that?
00:34:40.232 -->
00:34:42.442Because I could have learned those lessons and applied them.
00:34:42.442 -->
00:34:46.452So if you've never read The Unexpected Adventure, it's fantastic.
00:34:46.452 -->
00:34:47.692We had a lot of fun. Yeah, that's.
00:34:50.252 -->
00:34:50.526Great.
00:34:51.454 -->
00:34:55.676All right. So let's dive into some of these submitted questions.
00:34:55.676 -->
00:34:59.316And we've got some people who are posting quite a few questions.
00:34:59.316 -->
00:35:02.033So we're going to do our best to answer some of those.
00:35:02.670 -->
00:35:06.366But starting with the first submitted questions, it's kind of a heavy topic,
00:35:06.366 -->
00:35:12.376but I think it's worth discussing this idea of kids who die, what happens to them.
00:35:12.376 -->
00:35:16.656So Walt asked this question, leading an apologetics group at our church based
00:35:16.656 -->
00:35:20.145mostly on Case for Faith, which you just mentioned Here, Alicia,
00:35:20.604 -->
00:35:25.062in last night's class, we talked about God kills kids, so he's not worthy of worship.
00:35:25.642 -->
00:35:30.608And he followed up with this question. The question came up about the age of accountability.
00:35:30.899 -->
00:35:34.103Can you discuss the scriptural basis for this concept?
00:35:34.974 -->
00:35:38.712So I can start us off on this unless somebody wants to jump in.
00:35:39.670 -->
00:35:45.002But yeah, this idea is, I think, supported in scripture.
00:35:45.002 -->
00:35:51.832This idea that children are not held accountable for sin because they have not
00:35:52.252 -->
00:35:56.092reached this age where they know right from wrong and they can freely choose
00:35:56.092 -->
00:35:57.268between right and wrong.
00:35:57.952 -->
00:36:03.112When a child does something that we consider to be wrong, they truly don't know.
00:36:03.112 -->
00:36:06.552They truly don't have the ability to decide what's right and wrong.
00:36:06.552 -->
00:36:09.802And you can see this in scripture in several different cases.
00:36:09.802 -->
00:36:12.591There is a verse that says Egypt accountability.
00:36:12.993 -->
00:36:17.821There are verses such as in the Exodus when the Israelites are in the desert
00:36:18.256 -->
00:36:23.092and they do not obey God's command to go into the land that God is calling them into.
00:36:23.412 -->
00:36:26.212They don't obey because of their fear of the people there.
00:36:26.787 -->
00:36:30.372God punishes them by causing them to wander in the wilderness.
00:36:30.372 -->
00:36:35.172And he says, you know, anyone over this age will not enter into the kingdom,
00:36:35.172 -->
00:36:39.533but those under, they're not held accountable for what their parents did.
00:36:40.102 -->
00:36:44.862We also see in Ezekiel 18, it says that the child shall not be punished for
00:36:44.862 -->
00:36:48.413the sins of the father and shall not be held accountable.
00:36:48.633 -->
00:36:53.912And he, the author, you know, says, is this unjust? No, this is not unjust.
00:36:53.912 -->
00:36:57.532God is, it doesn't sound strange to our ears that a child would not be held
00:36:57.872 -->
00:36:59.404accountable for their parents' sin. But.
00:37:00.585 -->
00:37:04.581To those ears and that culture, it was sort of this perspective of,
00:37:04.854 -->
00:37:07.989no, you bear your family's shame kind of a thing.
00:37:09.065 -->
00:37:14.045And so there is this idea that those who are children that pass away are not
00:37:14.045 -->
00:37:17.835guilty of actualizing the sin nature within them.
00:37:17.835 -->
00:37:21.985They haven't sinned against God, and so they are not held accountable against them.
00:37:21.985 -->
00:37:27.425There's pretty widespread agreement, even amongst people with differing soteriology
00:37:27.425 -->
00:37:32.945within Christianity that children are received into heaven by the Lord.
00:37:32.945 -->
00:37:36.235So I think there's a lot of scriptural basis. There's more we could discuss.
00:37:36.235 -->
00:37:42.105David, when he loses his son after Bathsheba, he says he's mourning,
00:37:42.105 -->
00:37:44.805he's weeping while the child is sick. But once the child dies,
00:37:45.225 -->
00:37:48.953he stops mourning because he says, I know I will see my son again.
00:37:49.556 -->
00:37:54.025And there's this idea of, yeah, there will be this afterlife that and I'll see
00:37:54.025 -->
00:37:57.580my son again. So I don't know if you guys have more to add to that, but.
00:37:57.767 -->
00:38:03.048There's an interesting perspective of Christians who call themselves Molinists.
00:38:03.965 -->
00:38:05.452Which is a strain of Christianity.
00:38:05.951 -->
00:38:12.525And they take the position that God will judge infants or children who die based
00:38:12.525 -->
00:38:19.725on how he knows in his omniscience they would have reacted had they heard the gospel or in their life.
00:38:20.625 -->
00:38:24.919That's just another way, you know, God's justice being understandable to us,
00:38:25.383 -->
00:38:32.303that, you know, whether it be judged according to how they would have received or not receive Christ,
00:38:33.127 -->
00:38:37.040in His perfect knowledge later in their life.
00:38:37.721 -->
00:38:42.590Yeah, that's a possible way to view it. I just also want to pick up on the phrase,
00:38:42.590 -->
00:38:48.042the way the question was raised, why should we worship a God who kills children?
00:38:48.455 -->
00:38:51.980Well, God is the author of life. He gives and He does take away,
00:38:51.980 -->
00:38:58.570but they're highlighting the problem of evil, and why does God allow evil?
00:38:58.570 -->
00:39:01.290But there's also, as my friend Chad Meister likes to put it,
00:39:01.290 -->
00:39:02.873there's the problem of good.
00:39:03.600 -->
00:39:08.010And it's like, I will worship a God who creates children. We wouldn't know what
00:39:08.010 -->
00:39:09.793children were if he hadn't made them.
00:39:10.177 -->
00:39:13.300And yes, we do live in a fallen world where bad things happen.
00:39:13.300 -->
00:39:18.500But I like to remind people, you know, they say, you know, I'm sick and I'm
00:39:18.500 -->
00:39:20.940only 48 years old or something like that.
00:39:20.980 -->
00:39:26.188It's like, okay, but before you totally impugn God for letting you get sick at 48, hey.
00:39:27.160 -->
00:39:32.820Let's take some time to thank him for 48 years of health and all the blessings
00:39:32.820 -->
00:39:37.960and goodness in our lives and so forth, and to magnify that.
00:39:37.960 -->
00:39:42.560And I think when you come from a foundation of gratitude for the good things
00:39:42.560 -->
00:39:47.161God has given us and created and the beauty around us and the love,
00:39:47.562 -->
00:39:52.752then it puts the bad things that happen in a fallen world in a better perspective.
00:39:54.677 -->
00:39:56.292That's beautiful. I love that.
00:39:57.749 -->
00:40:03.583Okay. We got another question here from Tyler asking, would you say Islam is
00:40:03.583 -->
00:40:05.671an anti-Christ religion?
00:40:06.477 -->
00:40:13.014And I think, yeah, I don't know all of the context of what this question is being asked about, but.
00:40:13.344 -->
00:40:18.343Let me, let me start on that one because I did, when I was an atheist and investigating
00:40:18.343 -->
00:40:21.763Christianity, I also investigated other religions as well. Mormonism,
00:40:21.763 -->
00:40:27.546Islam. I read the Quran and ask questions of people who are knowledgeable about Islam.
00:40:27.981 -->
00:40:31.203And one of the things I'll just throw out this to start. One of the things that
00:40:31.203 -->
00:40:39.343struck me is that the Quran specifically denies some of the exact things you
00:40:39.343 -->
00:40:41.993need to believe if you're going to be a Christian.
00:40:42.585 -->
00:40:46.393Specifically, it goes after those. So for instance, in Surah 4,
00:40:46.393 -->
00:40:50.940verse 156, 157, it says, Jesus didn't die on the cross.
00:40:52.133 -->
00:40:56.163Well, therefore, he wasn't resurrected from the dead. Well, the resurrection,
00:40:56.163 -->
00:41:00.323the death of Jesus as the atonement for sin and his resurrection and conquering
00:41:00.323 -->
00:41:03.603death is a fundamental doctrine of Christianity.
00:41:03.603 -->
00:41:07.383You can't be a Christian if you don't believe that. But it specifically denies
00:41:07.383 -->
00:41:08.385that Jesus died on the cross.
00:41:08.832 -->
00:41:14.062Then elsewhere in the Quran, it specifically says that God does not have a son.
00:41:14.961 -->
00:41:18.983Well, you know, what do we do with Jesus who says, I and the Father are one,
00:41:18.983 -->
00:41:21.727you know, and presents himself and of God.
00:41:22.087 -->
00:41:26.461And then the other thing that the Quran says is that no one can bear the sins of another.
00:41:27.164 -->
00:41:30.693Well, that's what the atonement was about. It was about the perfect son of God
00:41:30.951 -->
00:41:35.783atoning, paying for the sins that we've committed in our place and so forth.
00:41:35.783 -->
00:41:41.423So it just struck me as I'm reading the con that, you know, that golly,
00:41:41.423 -->
00:41:44.223it specifically denies the things that.
00:41:44.357 -->
00:41:49.285So is it anti-Christ? Well, it certainly is incompatible with Christianity.
00:41:49.698 -->
00:41:56.763Either both Christianity and Islam are false, or Christianity is true and Islam
00:41:56.763 -->
00:42:01.605is false, or Islam is true and Christianity is false, but they cannot both be true at the same time.
00:42:03.563 -->
00:42:07.171They're mutually exclusive, and three of the reasons I just provided.
00:42:07.937 -->
00:42:14.213You know, I would jump in and add that I always try to distinguish Islam as
00:42:14.213 -->
00:42:19.500a worldview or a religion from Muslims as individual people.
00:42:20.110 -->
00:42:25.073And I think what Lee said illustrates the fact that even though Islam gives
00:42:25.073 -->
00:42:27.767lip service to Jesus as a prophet and,
00:42:28.643 -->
00:42:33.993even calls him the Messiah and so forth, ultimately denies the claims of Christ
00:42:33.993 -->
00:42:38.173to be, as Lee said, the Son of God, the Savior of the world who would pay for
00:42:38.173 -->
00:42:40.254our sins on the cross and then die to prove it.
00:42:40.463 -->
00:42:46.905It denies all of that. So in that sense, yes, Islam as a belief system denies Christ.
00:42:47.948 -->
00:42:53.526But there are lots of Muslims who are kind of don't know what to think about
00:42:53.526 -->
00:42:56.646some of these things or are not that theologically oriented.
00:42:56.646 -->
00:43:01.286They kind of know what they've been told to believe, but have very high views
00:43:01.286 -->
00:43:06.076of Jesus. And so when I'm talking to an individual Muslim, I don't want to treat
00:43:06.076 -->
00:43:08.212them like an antichrist person.
00:43:08.796 -->
00:43:13.026I want to treat them as someone who, you know, we have a lot of things in common.
00:43:13.026 -->
00:43:16.554We both believe in God. We both have a high view of Jesus.
00:43:16.885 -->
00:43:18.504I know you believe he's a prophet.
00:43:18.968 -->
00:43:21.493Have you ever read what the prophet said?
00:43:22.416 -->
00:43:26.898And the truth is, most Muslims do not read the Bible. They don't read the New Testament.
00:43:27.327 -->
00:43:32.246And so my challenge to an individual Muslim is to say, you owe it to yourself
00:43:32.246 -->
00:43:37.596to know what the prophet, the Messiah, Jesus said, and it's in what they call
00:43:37.596 -->
00:43:39.721the holy in jail, the gospels.
00:43:40.656 -->
00:43:45.406And to try to, in a very positive way, get them to the point where they're reading
00:43:45.406 -->
00:43:50.546what Jesus said so that he can speak for himself and point people to the truth
00:43:50.546 -->
00:43:54.416about him, his unique identity as the Son of God,
00:43:54.956 -->
00:43:59.805the Messiah, and the Savior of the world who paid for our sins on the cross.
00:44:00.468 -->
00:44:04.479That's good, Mark. Yeah. I would just, I think they pretty much covered it,
00:44:04.479 -->
00:44:07.290but I would just focus on that anti-Christ piece.
00:44:08.099 -->
00:44:10.643I don't think a Muslim would feel like they were anti-Christ,
00:44:11.119 -->
00:44:15.839anti-Jesus, but the Christ piece is an interesting, is an interesting take on
00:44:15.839 -->
00:44:19.059it, right? Because this is like, he's anointed, he is special,
00:44:19.059 -->
00:44:21.430he's, like Mark alludes to his Messiah.
00:44:21.768 -->
00:44:25.575That is, so I wouldn't say, you know, Esau, as the Quran would say,
00:44:25.825 -->
00:44:28.506is spoken of more times in the Quran than Muhammad.
00:44:28.785 -->
00:44:32.238Okay. He's all over the Quran, 90 some odd times you'll see Isa, Isa, Isa.
00:44:32.500 -->
00:44:38.929So a Muslim is definitely not anti-Jesus. They believe he's a wonderful prophet, sinless.
00:44:38.929 -->
00:44:42.939He's going to come back. That's really what a lot of what you see kind of happening
00:44:42.939 -->
00:44:45.909with some of the Boko Haram and ISIS stuff is they're trying to bring back the
00:44:45.909 -->
00:44:49.499end times, Boko Haram specifically, the end times where Jesus will come back.
00:44:49.499 -->
00:44:51.282So they believe that Jesus is going to come back again.
00:44:51.625 -->
00:44:54.714So there's a very high reverence for him.
00:44:55.739 -->
00:44:59.329But the idea of there being some sort of savior, which is what Christianity,
00:44:59.329 -->
00:45:02.739he isn't just a great guy, a great prophet. Christianity is plenty of great
00:45:02.739 -->
00:45:05.380prophets that it reveres.
00:45:05.612 -->
00:45:09.967But it's this idea of someone to actually come and save us from what we've done wrong.
00:45:10.234 -->
00:45:12.749That's where the differentiation really happens because within Islam,
00:45:12.749 -->
00:45:16.074there is nothing that saves you. Just hopefully Allah will forgive me.
00:45:16.282 -->
00:45:20.462Hopefully Allah will accept me into paradise, but that isn't a guarantee. It's up to his will.
00:45:20.799 -->
00:45:25.179And so that delineation between the savior figure, I think is where the Christians,
00:45:26.169 -->
00:45:30.459and the Muslims are going to part ways. They're going to recognize that obviously
00:45:30.459 -->
00:45:33.899Jesus is someone to be revered. He was different. He was special.
00:45:34.390 -->
00:45:37.838He spoke truth. He was sinless, even virgin born.
00:45:39.003 -->
00:45:43.357Who he was, what his identity is as, as, as like, you know, son of God and being
00:45:43.357 -->
00:45:46.498divine and his death on a cross, that's going to be the big diversion.
00:45:46.688 -->
00:45:49.727And so there, it's almost like, what's Jesus are you talking about?
00:45:49.727 -->
00:45:53.341And that's where it really matters. Like Mark said, if you read Jesus' words,
00:45:53.630 -->
00:45:56.137you're going to get a very clear picture of who he believed he was.
00:45:56.137 -->
00:45:58.297And that's important when we're trying to understand who he is.
00:45:59.063 -->
00:46:04.377Yeah. Yeah. So I'll just add, you know, if you are interested in this one,
00:46:04.377 -->
00:46:08.327in this topic a little bit more, and you want to learn more on this.
00:46:08.327 -->
00:46:12.577A lot of us knew Nabeel Qureshi, who wrote on these topics, his book,
00:46:12.577 -->
00:46:19.522Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus, told his story of coming to faith in Christ out of Islam.
00:46:19.760 -->
00:46:23.336And I think what it does is it does exactly what you said, Dad, where,
00:46:23.820 -->
00:46:28.777it helps you to separate the Muslim from Islam and gives you a lot of love and
00:46:28.777 -->
00:46:30.637appreciation for Muslims in
00:46:30.957 -->
00:46:35.517who they are and their culture and the good parts of what they believe,
00:46:35.517 -->
00:46:39.874but very clearly distinguishes that from what Islam teaches,
00:46:40.136 -->
00:46:44.367which, as Lee pointed out, is just contrary to the teachings of scripture.
00:46:44.367 -->
00:46:47.907And there's always this question, do we all worship the same God?
00:46:47.907 -->
00:46:52.707And I think one of the—Limbil pointed this out—one of the clearest ways to answer
00:46:52.707 -->
00:46:57.117that question is, if Jesus returned today, Christians would bow down and worship
00:46:57.117 -->
00:47:02.627him as God, and Muslims would say, you can't do that. That's the unpardonable sin of shirk.
00:47:03.114 -->
00:47:06.877So that's a clear answer of, do we worship the same God? No,
00:47:06.877 -->
00:47:10.643Christians worship Jesus as God, Muslims don't.
00:47:11.358 -->
00:47:15.703Yeah, really good discussion here. We've got kind of an aggressive question
00:47:15.703 -->
00:47:19.267here from Ahmed, I think is probably his first name here.
00:47:19.685 -->
00:47:24.803So let's dive into this. Why do Christians refuse to debate hard topics like
00:47:24.803 -->
00:47:29.367scientific errors in the Bible, slave beating in the Bible, and many others?
00:47:29.768 -->
00:47:33.573And then he says, the last debate on the topic Christianity,
00:47:33.573 -->
00:47:38.303Islam, and modern science was back Back in 1996, Christianity was destroyed
00:47:38.303 -->
00:47:42.912by Zucker Naik, and since then this topic was never debated again.
00:47:43.347 -->
00:47:50.223And I'll start on this topic just to say, my friend, I think you are quite out of
00:47:50.583 -->
00:47:55.863the loop with the state of Christianity and Islam and science and debates on
00:47:55.863 -->
00:48:03.597this because there have been thousands of debates between Christians and skeptics, atheists, Muslims.
00:48:04.503 -->
00:48:10.940The Christian debate or Christian worldview has been the most attacked worldview in modern era.
00:48:11.206 -->
00:48:15.793And there have been many, many defenders that have risen up to defend Christianity
00:48:15.793 -->
00:48:19.163against these charges, including Dr. William Lane Craig.
00:48:19.723 -->
00:48:24.745You guys have hosted Dr. Craig in debates about faith, science,
00:48:25.118 -->
00:48:26.794the existence of God, things like that.
00:48:27.830 -->
00:48:32.680There have been many debates on these topics, and especially today on Islam
00:48:32.680 -->
00:48:34.291and science and things like that.
00:48:35.310 -->
00:48:39.187There are a lot of debaters today, Dr. David Wood, Michael Jones,
00:48:39.332 -->
00:48:43.790God Logic. There are a lot of debaters out there that are debating and often
00:48:43.790 -->
00:48:46.710inviting these scholars like Dr.
00:48:47.490 -->
00:48:52.830Zakir Naik to debate, and it's the Muslims who are often avoiding the debates
00:48:52.830 -->
00:48:57.075and not actually engaging and not responding to those.
00:48:57.429 -->
00:49:01.430And one example, I think, just from this room as well is, Lee,
00:49:01.430 -->
00:49:05.670when you wrote The Case for Miracles, one of the things that you did is you
00:49:05.670 -->
00:49:10.915went to Michael Shermer, who is the president of the American Association of Atheists, right?
00:49:11.170 -->
00:49:14.460And you gave him free reign to challenge miracles.
00:49:14.460 -->
00:49:17.960I think you had, what was it, three chapters, or it was a significant portion
00:49:17.960 -->
00:49:21.445of your book, is just him giving his most difficult challenges,
00:49:21.851 -->
00:49:25.213saying science has replaced the need for God, science has disproved miracles,
00:49:25.532 -->
00:49:27.310and you engage with his arguments.
00:49:27.310 -->
00:49:31.190And then you spent the rest of the book, I think, pretty well dismantling his claims.
00:49:31.788 -->
00:49:36.650So we are not afraid of engaging with the hard questions in Christianity because,
00:49:37.150 -->
00:49:42.010I think our worldview is true and I think it stands up to these challenges. Yeah, I don't.
00:49:44.350 -->
00:49:47.457Know. I don't know what more there is to add because the question just us.
00:49:48.692 -->
00:49:54.017There's a lack of awareness, which can be great news for the person that's genuinely curious.
00:49:54.017 -->
00:49:58.467There's a ton of resource out there. You think of someone like Stephen Meyer,
00:49:58.467 -->
00:50:02.617who's leading the way on a lot of this stuff. So there's just a lot of Christians
00:50:02.617 -->
00:50:04.202that are engaging this topic.
00:50:04.665 -->
00:50:09.047And so there's really good answers for the questions that exist on this topic.
00:50:09.047 -->
00:50:10.471But sorry, Alicia, I cut you off.
00:50:11.105 -->
00:50:14.597No, no, that's okay. I was just going to say as well, I think that,
00:50:14.597 -->
00:50:17.377you know, there's definitely books written on the slavery piece.
00:50:17.377 -->
00:50:20.547Not so much beating because the Bible actually doesn't encourage the beating.
00:50:20.547 -->
00:50:23.387It actually says that there's consequences. I think it's like if you knock out
00:50:23.387 -->
00:50:27.107the eye of a slave and that can happen to you, like there's actual consequences for harming.
00:50:27.107 -->
00:50:29.577You're not allowed to kidnap somebody and bring them into slavery and things
00:50:29.577 -->
00:50:33.217like that. If they're freed, you know, you can't return them to their master.
00:50:33.217 -->
00:50:36.327So there's all these kinds of things actually that it does to counter some of
00:50:36.327 -->
00:50:40.244those slavery passages. So yeah, there's plenty of books out there on the slavery thing.
00:50:40.516 -->
00:50:45.427And then Lee mentioned this fantastic movie that's coming out.
00:50:45.427 -->
00:50:49.161It's A Theory of Everything. Is that what it was? Theory of... Story of everything.
00:50:49.796 -->
00:50:53.723Okay. And so that's going to deal a lot with science and dealing a lot with
00:50:54.025 -->
00:50:58.227how it points to an intelligent designer or, you know, and so these kind of,
00:50:58.227 -->
00:51:01.857I'm assuming I haven't seen it, but like, so you, so there's scientific errors
00:51:01.857 -->
00:51:03.394and those kinds of things. actually.
00:51:03.684 -->
00:51:07.647The Bible doesn't make the same claim of scientific errors that the Quran does.
00:51:07.647 -->
00:51:10.877And I know that there has been a lot within Islam the last several years of
00:51:10.877 -->
00:51:15.127dealing with, you know, Islam is demonstrating, there's science in Islam that
00:51:15.127 -->
00:51:19.290is demonstrating, that correlates what we know to be true today and these kinds of things.
00:51:20.347 -->
00:51:23.659And Christians aren't making that claim in the same way.
00:51:23.920 -->
00:51:27.043Christians are making the claim that there aren't inconsistencies.
00:51:27.282 -->
00:51:29.633But this idea of scientific errors, like for example, you know,
00:51:29.928 -->
00:51:33.046gravity being 9.8 meters per second squared is not in the biblical text.
00:51:33.314 -->
00:51:36.825Okay. So we're not claiming first to teach science from the Bible,
00:51:37.097 -->
00:51:40.493but what we are claiming is that science and Christianity are actually not incompatible
00:51:40.831 -->
00:51:44.388and that science, Christians who have been scientists in the past have been,
00:51:44.870 -->
00:51:46.127have done great science.
00:51:46.127 -->
00:51:48.567So they could be Christian and science, and they didn't even see that there
00:51:48.567 -->
00:51:50.553was an issue with them as well.
00:51:50.833 -->
00:51:54.536So I encourage you to check out that movie that's coming up that Lee mentioned earlier.
00:51:54.855 -->
00:51:58.327I think that would be really helpful, but yeah, Christians are not at all running
00:51:58.327 -->
00:52:01.507away from any of these topics. Matthew speaks on science. I've spoken on science.
00:52:01.507 -->
00:52:03.697And so we're dealing with it all. Yeah.
00:52:04.864 -->
00:52:08.217We've got a lot of good questions coming in here. So I'm going to keep going
00:52:08.217 -->
00:52:09.283through a couple of these.
00:52:09.433 -->
00:52:13.497One question that has been repeatedly submitted here, and this person has been
00:52:13.497 -->
00:52:18.177waiting patiently to get this question answered, is where is the gospel?
00:52:18.177 -->
00:52:21.002What is the gospel? And how do I find it in the Bible?
00:52:21.420 -->
00:52:25.577And so, yeah, how would you share the gospel? How would you explain what the
00:52:25.577 -->
00:52:27.816gospel is and explain that?
00:52:29.237 -->
00:52:32.207You know, I like to say, you know, the Bible's a big book. Actually,
00:52:32.207 -->
00:52:37.097it's 66 books in one. It's 800,000 words. It's, you know, takes,
00:52:37.097 -->
00:52:41.225if you read it straight through, it'll take you 72 hours to read.
00:52:41.579 -->
00:52:45.857So there's a lot of information in the Bible, a lot of stuff that God wants us to know.
00:52:46.597 -->
00:52:51.617But how would you boil it down to one verse or so, 21, 22 words?
00:52:51.617 -->
00:52:57.603How could you boil it down, the central message that God wants us to know from the Bible, the gospel?
00:52:57.905 -->
00:52:59.559And I go to Romans 6, 23.
00:53:00.190 -->
00:53:06.467It says simply, the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal
00:53:06.467 -->
00:53:08.125life through Christ Jesus our Lord.
00:53:08.537 -->
00:53:11.724So the wages of sin is death. what we deserve, what we've earned,
00:53:12.032 -->
00:53:16.217the consequences of living a life apart from God, ignoring him,
00:53:16.217 -->
00:53:20.027violating his commands. And so the consequence of that is death,
00:53:20.027 -->
00:53:22.230which means eternal separation from God.
00:53:22.474 -->
00:53:25.893That's what all it is. Nobody wants to go there.
00:53:26.102 -->
00:53:28.657But it says the free gift of God,
00:53:28.657 -->
00:53:32.105not something we earn, not something we deserve, not something we merit.
00:53:32.343 -->
00:53:37.627The gift of God is eternal life through how? Through Christ Jesus,
00:53:37.627 -->
00:53:40.923our Lord because he is the son of God. He lived the perfect life.
00:53:41.172 -->
00:53:45.300He went to the cross. He paid the penalty. He deserved for the sins that we've committed.
00:53:45.805 -->
00:53:49.125And he offers forgiveness and eternal life as a free gift of his grace.
00:53:49.526 -->
00:53:54.517I love that verse because to me, it just sort of sums up the central message
00:53:54.517 -->
00:53:56.277that God wants us to know from the Bible.
00:53:56.277 -->
00:54:00.997The wage of sin is that. That's bad news. But the good news is there's this
00:54:00.997 -->
00:54:04.653free gift of forgiveness and eternal life available through Jesus.
00:54:05.323 -->
00:54:11.127And so if you want a very specific, like distill down to one verse, go there.
00:54:11.505 -->
00:54:15.208But where else is the gospel in the Bible? It's the whole story.
00:54:15.725 -->
00:54:20.880The entire story of the Bible unpacks what Lee just shared.
00:54:21.361 -->
00:54:27.291I mean, as you're reading the Old Testament, you just see how bad things are apart from the Lord.
00:54:28.033 -->
00:54:33.501And that sin does breed death, both a eternal spiritual death,
00:54:33.832 -->
00:54:37.183but you're reading the Old Testament and you're gripped by the horror and the
00:54:37.183 -->
00:54:41.448tragedy of how bad things go when you depart from the Lord.
00:54:41.832 -->
00:54:43.556It just brings death.
00:54:44.171 -->
00:54:48.838But the good news, and that's what gospel means, good news, but the good news.
00:54:49.507 -->
00:54:54.389Is that But the creator of all did not just abandon or condemn,
00:54:54.726 -->
00:55:01.320he provided a way to have life again, abundant life in him through the sacrifice
00:55:01.518 -->
00:55:03.213of his son, Jesus Christ on the cross.
00:55:03.387 -->
00:55:05.959And the whole Bible unpacks that story.
00:55:06.249 -->
00:55:09.712So it's a great, great question. And Lee, I love how you answered it.
00:55:09.968 -->
00:55:14.393You want to find it in a very concise, go to Romans 6, 23, but the rest of the
00:55:14.393 -->
00:55:17.044Bible tells that whole story, the good news of God's kingdom.
00:55:17.669 -->
00:55:21.739Absolutely. And I actually love, I love Romans 10 as well, sticking in Romans.
00:55:22.116 -->
00:55:25.573And Romans 10 tells us, you believe in your heart that Jesus Christ is Lord
00:55:25.573 -->
00:55:28.996and confess to your mouth that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
00:55:29.281 -->
00:55:32.933Right? The gospel message is pointing to a restoration of people who've been
00:55:32.933 -->
00:55:34.755separated from God because of what they've done wrong.
00:55:35.022 -->
00:55:38.323And it points to that restoration. And so Romans is really clear.
00:55:38.323 -->
00:55:40.978You believe in your heart Jesus Christ is Lord, not just that he existed,
00:55:41.251 -->
00:55:45.360but you believe in actually who he truly was and his true identity,
00:55:45.540 -->
00:55:49.013divinity, and that God raised him from the dead, which points out that he was
00:55:49.013 -->
00:55:51.283crucified and died and was risen from the dead.
00:55:51.283 -->
00:55:54.953And that's what helps restore that relationship. So that belief,
00:55:54.953 -->
00:55:58.173that acceptance of what Jesus did. So that's another one that I go to if you
00:55:58.173 -->
00:56:00.877want another verse, if you want a particular verse for the gospel message.
00:56:01.588 -->
00:56:04.633Romans is good for that stuff. Romans 6, Romans 10. Yeah.
00:56:05.303 -->
00:56:12.043Romans in general, it's a theological treatise on the salvation message.
00:56:12.043 -->
00:56:16.613And so So if you want to understand salvation, I think that's a really good
00:56:16.613 -->
00:56:22.253book to go to because it can be intimidating to read all 66 and to try to understand.
00:56:22.253 -->
00:56:26.843And we obviously would encourage you to do that. But if you want sort of distilled,
00:56:26.843 -->
00:56:31.169Paul explains the logic of salvation in Romans, which is really helpful.
00:56:32.206 -->
00:56:36.279Anna Richards says, Lee, I'm really grateful for your story.
00:56:36.667 -->
00:56:40.649It gives hope to many that their far off loved ones can find God.
00:56:40.987 -->
00:56:44.649And I love how easy it is to connect the info in your books. Thank you.
00:56:45.218 -->
00:56:46.884Oh, that's very sweet.
00:56:47.604 -->
00:56:54.072You know, I, like all of us, my heart beats for seeing people come to faith.
00:56:54.275 -->
00:56:57.410That's, you know, I want to drag as many people to heaven with me as I can.
00:56:58.565 -->
00:57:03.070And when I get notes of people who God's used my book in one way or the other
00:57:03.070 -->
00:57:07.650to help them understand the gospel, respond to the gospel, there's nothing more
00:57:08.010 -->
00:57:12.493exciting or fulfilling to me than that. So I'm thrilled to hear that.
00:57:12.749 -->
00:57:15.477And I will say, it is God, it's not me.
00:57:15.930 -->
00:57:19.890I like to use the analogy of Wrigley Field when I talk about The Case for Christ.
00:57:19.890 -->
00:57:21.792I wrote The Case for Christ in 1998.
00:57:22.128 -->
00:57:24.967It's still the number one bestselling apologetics book in America.
00:57:25.460 -->
00:57:29.830I don't take, I honestly don't take credit for that. I picture Ripley Field
00:57:29.830 -->
00:57:35.602in Chicago. I grew up a Cubs fan and in Chicago, a guy will come up and he'll hit the ball.
00:57:35.782 -->
00:57:40.112And often it's a pop-up and it gets caught by the center fielder for an out.
00:57:40.687 -->
00:57:44.257But sometimes because of the wind of Chicago, the windy city,
00:57:44.803 -->
00:57:47.014he hits the ball. He doesn't hit the ball any harder.
00:57:47.467 -->
00:57:53.812And yet the wind takes it for a grand slam. And I honestly, it's not false humility.
00:57:54.079 -->
00:57:57.250That's how I feel with the case for Christ. I feel like, did I hit the ball?
00:57:57.250 -->
00:58:00.034Yeah, I wrote the book. God led me to write the book. I hit the ball.
00:58:00.475 -->
00:58:06.036But God, the Holy Spirit has taken it so far beyond what I put into it.
00:58:06.396 -->
00:58:09.350That when I hear stories of people coming to faith through the book,
00:58:09.350 -->
00:58:12.910and I get those all the time, I just marvel at it.
00:58:13.550 -->
00:58:17.518I never look at me. I look at what God has done.
00:58:18.424 -->
00:58:22.947He's taken this beyond what everything I ever put into it and accomplishes far
00:58:22.947 -->
00:58:28.645more than I ever could. So that's the joy of evangelism. You see God at work.
00:58:28.871 -->
00:58:31.787And I would just add that, you know, and I often say this, you know,
00:58:31.787 -->
00:58:35.187I've written a number of books and I like my books and all that.
00:58:35.187 -->
00:58:41.997But I often say this to audiences, that if I had the opportunity to prescribe
00:58:41.997 -->
00:58:47.283one book that everyone in the world needs to read besides the Bible or in addition
00:58:47.661 -->
00:58:50.163to the Bible, it would be the case for Christ.
00:58:50.650 -->
00:58:54.383And I say that for Christians because it'll reinforce your faith,
00:58:54.882 -->
00:58:58.857but especially, you know, I would say this to our Muslim friend that asked the
00:58:58.857 -->
00:59:00.647question a few minutes ago.
00:59:00.647 -->
00:59:06.087I'd say it to anyone that's skeptical or, you know, kind of fallen away from
00:59:06.087 -->
00:59:07.681Christianity or whatever.
00:59:08.099 -->
00:59:12.534Read The Case for Christ with an open mind, asking God to speak to you through it.
00:59:12.963 -->
00:59:18.127Because, you know, thousands and thousands, if not millions of people have read
00:59:18.127 -->
00:59:21.561that book. God's used it to open their eyes, open their hearts,
00:59:21.909 -->
00:59:23.999and people end up coming to Christ.
00:59:24.475 -->
00:59:29.857And, I mean, Lee and I could spend the whole rest of the week telling you stories
00:59:29.857 -->
00:59:34.317about people who have come to Christ through that book, like Evel Knievel,
00:59:34.317 -->
00:59:36.287the motorcycle daredevil,
00:59:36.834 -->
00:59:41.477who reads the book, comes to Christ, and then starts calling Lee every two weeks
00:59:41.477 -->
00:59:44.607with theological questions. Hey, Evel!
00:59:46.447 -->
00:59:52.067So not to incorporate Lee into the act. Is that out of your mind? Say that again?
00:59:53.167 -->
00:59:55.888Yeah. I said he wasn't calling to incorporate Lee into the act.
00:59:59.783 -->
01:00:02.697But God just uses that book and that message.
01:00:03.856 -->
01:00:08.143Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's the gospel. The gospel is alive. Yeah.
01:00:08.474 -->
01:00:12.156When I talk to people about even the movie as well, people tell me,
01:00:12.556 -->
01:00:15.646yeah, there's a local school that I do some stuff with.
01:00:15.646 -->
01:00:19.836And they say, yeah, we show that movie every year because students come to faith
01:00:19.836 -->
01:00:23.796every year through watching The Case for Christ film. I just mailed out a book
01:00:24.196 -->
01:00:27.646yesterday to a young man whose mom showed him the movie The Case for Christ.
01:00:27.646 -->
01:00:29.449He's a skeptic. He's a high school student.
01:00:29.907 -->
01:00:33.272And he watched a movie and his response, he said, was cool.
01:00:33.851 -->
01:00:38.306And so she wrote to say, would you pray for my son? Because he's showing interest
01:00:38.306 -->
01:00:44.315now. So I said, I'll send him a book. So I just mailed yesterday a book to him.
01:00:44.617 -->
01:00:48.516And I wrote in the book, I said, keep asking questions. Keep seeking answers.
01:00:48.936 -->
01:00:50.293Those who seek will find.
01:00:50.936 -->
01:00:54.976And to validate the fact it's okay to ask questions. It's okay to be skeptical.
01:00:54.976 -->
01:01:00.347It's okay to investigate and check things out. I think that's, that's, that's honest.
01:01:00.713 -->
01:01:05.112It doesn't surprise God. I don't say, oh my goodness, I can't believe he's asking that.
01:01:07.411 -->
01:01:13.716So, um, courage him. But, but so the movie, which is, you can get it on, um, was it prime?
01:01:14.456 -->
01:01:19.595Yeah. Amazon prime. It was on Netflix three years, but they did a good job with that movie. Yeah.
01:01:20.376 -->
01:01:24.086In fact, the producer of that movie, the, the writer of that movie is the guy
01:01:24.086 -->
01:01:28.555behind the movie that's coming out called the story of everything. It's the same guy.
01:01:29.176 -->
01:01:34.496Great the same producer that's awesome yeah well we are we're over time here
01:01:34.496 -->
01:01:38.926so we kind of run out of time to ask these questions but i just want to connect
01:01:38.926 -->
01:01:41.585on this what she said here anna of,
01:01:42.258 -->
01:01:46.876it gives hope to many that their far-off loved ones can find god and i do think
01:01:46.876 -->
01:01:52.556that's something that a lot of people connect with your story lee is how leslie prayed for you how she,
01:01:53.016 -->
01:01:57.407she you know thought, how in the world is Lee going to come to faith?
01:01:57.872 -->
01:02:01.436And I think a lot of us have people in our lives that we feel that way about
01:02:01.436 -->
01:02:06.304that. It's like, how in the world are they going to come to the Lord? How are they going to.
01:02:07.096 -->
01:02:09.791Come to know him. And I think there was even a story that you shared in the
01:02:09.791 -->
01:02:13.851unexpected adventure of, I think it was somebody who prayed for their brother
01:02:13.851 -->
01:02:17.301for, it was something like 48 years, 300, 48 days.
01:02:17.971 -->
01:02:24.025Unbelievable. Unbelievable. And they said, I'm glad I didn't stop at year 47.
01:02:24.680 -->
01:02:28.881That's right. I didn't stop. He had given a copy of Christ on the guy's shelf.
01:02:28.881 -->
01:02:32.381He wouldn't bring it down. And then he got cancer and 48 years,
01:02:32.381 -->
01:02:35.930348 days. He prayed for him. He read the book, came to faith and died.
01:02:38.068 -->
01:02:42.258But there's hope. And the verse that Leslie prayed for me is Ezekiel 36,
01:02:42.258 -->
01:02:46.46826. It says, Moreover, I will give you a new heart and I will put a new spirit
01:02:46.468 -->
01:02:50.228within you. I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
01:02:51.128 -->
01:02:55.029And she prayed that for me every day for two years. And God answered that prayer.
01:02:56.214 -->
01:03:01.418Love it. That's great. So good. Well, guys, this has been such a pleasure.
01:03:01.418 -->
01:03:04.688And sorry for anyone that didn't get their question answered.
01:03:04.688 -->
01:03:08.658We ran out of time. But we do this once a month. We have an Ask an Apologist
01:03:08.658 -->
01:03:11.716live stream where you can come and submit your questions.
01:03:12.059 -->
01:03:17.198And so we love having people on here asking your questions and interacting with
01:03:17.198 -->
01:03:25.796you. And we are excited to have my dad and Lee Strobel joining our team to be on Apologetics Inc.
01:03:26.348 -->
01:03:31.678Speaking team together. We are going to have our first event together coming
01:03:31.678 -->
01:03:33.368up here March 5th in Tampa.
01:03:33.748 -->
01:03:37.018Yeah, next Thursday. One week from today. One week from today,
01:03:37.018 -->
01:03:41.188you are in the Tampa area and you are interested to come and hear more about
01:03:41.188 -->
01:03:45.158Apologetics Inc., more about what we do, and to hear from Mark and Lee and from
01:03:45.158 -->
01:03:46.527all of us, the speaking team.
01:03:46.898 -->
01:03:51.068That is the Apologetics Experience. And so you can go to apologetics.org,
01:03:51.068 -->
01:03:54.892which is our website, slash experience, and you can register there.
01:03:55.175 -->
01:03:58.905We would love to see you there. We would love to meet you and to talk more.
01:03:59.369 -->
01:04:02.528And this movie, again, is just going to be really cool.
01:04:02.528 -->
01:04:06.528I can't wait to see it as well. the story of everything.film is going to be
01:04:06.948 -->
01:04:11.718a great resource for you to watch and to share the gospel with your friends
01:04:11.718 -->
01:04:15.468and to share some of the evidence that we have for the reason for the hope that is within us.
01:04:16.626 -->
01:04:19.616Mark and Lee, thank you for joining us. I would say, again, as our guest,
01:04:19.616 -->
01:04:23.196and you're not guests, you're a part of the team. So thanks,
01:04:23.196 -->
01:04:25.391thanks for joining us. Good to be in the family.
01:04:26.246 -->
01:04:29.866Yeah, well, and one last thing too. So for anybody watching this,
01:04:29.866 -->
01:04:31.938and it's like, man, there's so many questions that weren't answered.
01:04:32.826 -->
01:04:38.106One of the things we love doing is this live, just an open forum Q&A.
01:04:38.106 -->
01:04:42.576Of course, we all go and give talks on individual topics and then follow it
01:04:42.576 -->
01:04:44.748by Q&A, which we do that a ton.
01:04:45.259 -->
01:04:49.229We also like coming together and doing an open forum Q&A.
01:04:49.450 -->
01:04:53.126Matthew, Alicia, and I, for example, next week are going to be at a Church Creekside,
01:04:53.126 -->
01:04:54.442which is blowing up in Tampa.
01:04:54.909 -->
01:04:59.582This next Tuesday night, they have 850 college-age kids coming,
01:04:59.930 -->
01:05:04.841and it's going to be just simply open forum Q&A.
01:05:05.404 -->
01:05:09.116We did an event like this at Creekside for the adults and the adults asked over
01:05:09.116 -->
01:05:11.361200 questions themselves.
01:05:11.842 -->
01:05:16.886So we're expecting thousands of questions Tuesday night.
01:05:17.406 -->
01:05:21.926We love doing this in person. It's incredibly impactful. And if you want to
01:05:21.926 -->
01:05:26.285take us up on something like that, hit us up, go to apologetics.org and reach out to us.
01:05:27.129 -->
01:05:32.846Awesome great cool alright well if you are watching on YouTube like and subscribe
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