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Welcome to AI Speed, the show where AI card companies talk about what actually works in the market right now.
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Business doesn't move at internet speed anymore, it moves at AI speed.
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The people who figure it out how to turn models into money will own the next decade.
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I'm Evan J.
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Chaulfin, founder of Luxhammer and growth partner to high-performing brands.
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Today I'm thrilled to be joined by Kelsey Foremost, head of marketing at Togel.
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Kelsey is bringing a unique perspective to one of the most traditional industries out there, construction.
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She's leading marketing for an AI-powered platform that's transforming how estimators work while also challenging how technical products are positioned and sold through what she calls entertainment-first marketing.
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Kelsey, thank you for being here.
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Thanks so much for having me, Evan.
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You built a reputation around storytelling and brand voice.
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What led you to apply that approach to a space like construction tech?
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Because construction tech is boring, Evan, and I don't like when things are boring.
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So to give your listeners a bit of a background, I actually come from the entertainment industry.
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I was an actress and a screenwriter for 10 years and saw a lot of success in that field, but it just wasn't scratching the itch for me.
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I liked being able to be the one telling the story or helping people understand what their story was.
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And through some twists and turns, I found my way into digital marketing at a company called Omnia Media in LA.
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And this was in the mid-20 teens when YouTube was really starting to become a major driver of the market.
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We were seeing multi-channel, um, we were seeing like multi-channel networks were popping up.
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And I was really in at ground zero with seeing the power content as a business driver, not just as an entertainment driver, but to actually help companies not just get new eyes on their product, but get loyal brand advocates out in the marketplace and increase their bottom lines by millions, if not billions.
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So once I found my way into that world, I started to realize there was a huge need for boring industries like B2B SaaS, snooze, for those types of companies to start entertaining people to get that brand loyalty and that it was going to be much more effective for their marketing strategies.
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Again, not just to put content out for content's sake, but to actually create loyal brand advocates.
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Definitely.
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It's amazing the power of storytelling to really transform something that could be considered boring into really changing people's minds and building that loyalty.
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Absolutely.
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Totally.
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Well, there's a psychological aspect of storytelling too.
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If I may just really put on my nerdy pants for a minute and push my imaginary glasses up my nose, neuroscience actually shows us people are, I think, like 70% more likely to remember a story than they are to remember a fact or figure.
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So if you tell someone the story, I'll do it right now.
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If I tell you that Togul can save you, or if I tell you right now that Toggle can increase your bid rate by over 200%, and that's all that I told you, you probably wouldn't remember that.
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However, if I told you about Andrew Poling, who is the owner of NC Painting, who was really struggling and he used Bluebeam for years and he kept missing out on bids to his competitors and he needed to stay in business, he kind of was like, What can I do to save my business?
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And he came to Togel and he was like, Look, I'm getting 19 bids out the door per month with Bluebeam.
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Can you help me at least like try to get that up by 50% or so?
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Just like a few more bids.
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And within 60 days, he went from doing 19 bids a month to over 60 bids a month.
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And he increased his business by 250%, which is wild.
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So Andrew is an incredible example of someone who was able to increase their bid rate, sure, but save their business because he was open to adopting AI.
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Absolutely.
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And uh, you know, telling it in that story form makes a huge difference.
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So you're you're pro proving the point.
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I try to put my money where my mouth is, or my mouth where my money is.
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Yeah.
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So what makes Togel's approach unique, especially in how you're using AI to transform takeoffs and estimating workflows?
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That's a great question.
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I would say Toggle's biggest differentiator is we have been in the AI game for way longer than anybody else.
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And we have our own AI that we built from scratch.
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We are not a wrapper around something else.
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So there's a lot of buzz right now.
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There's been a lot of buzz for a couple of years, even really.
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AI, AI, AI.
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You should be using it, blah, blah, blah.
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We're sick of hearing that, right?
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But a lot of times now, these kind of legacy tools are just slapping on a label and saying, we have AI now, we swear.
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But it's just like a wrapper around something that already exists that isn't built for construction.
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Togel AI is built specifically for construction professionals by construction professionals.
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Our founder, Patrick Murphy, comes from one of the biggest construction family firms in the country, Coastal Construction.
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They've built over 70% of the Miami skyline, fourth-generation construction guy.
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He used to do estimates with his grandfather with a paper and a ruler.
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And he came back after actually serving a term in Congress and he saw that Coastal was still using this outdated software.
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And he thought, what if we could automate all of the repetitive tasks with artificial intelligence so that our estimators can focus on estimating?
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They can do the value ads in the project.
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They can look for maybe some missed scope.
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They can, they can spend their time more efficiently rather than clicking and coloring and counting.
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So this was way back in, I think, 2021, 2022.
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And he got some of the top talent and built toggle for construction.
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RAI is only trained on construction documents.
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It's not going to query the whole internet.
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It only knows construction.
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It's like having a junior estimator who already has all of this knowledge about what they should look for in a plan.
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Absolutely.
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So, what from what you're seeing, what's the core problem contractors and estimators are dealing with today?
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My gosh.
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Well, I think one of the biggest core problems is that pre-construction is the place where if something goes wrong in pre-con, it's going to cost you tons down the road.
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It's that metaphor of like, if you're if you're driving a big ship or you're you're doing an airplane and you're one degree off at the beginning of your flight or the beginning of your journey, it's only one degree at the beginning, but by the end of your journey, you have totally missed where you were trying to go.
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And it's very expensive to course correct later.
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That is in a nutshell why takeoffs are so hugely valuable and important, and where it can be a big problem.
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Costly errors, either underordering or over-ordering materials, missing scope, not getting your bid out the door fast enough and spending a ton of hours on a bid that is now irrelevant because somebody beat you to the punch.
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To generalize so many problems start in the pre-con phase and having AI there to help assist you can eliminate a lot of those bigger problems now.
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Absolutely.
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And your role, where are you spending most of your time right now?
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I my role is so exciting because Togul, even though we are an established company, we are still that startup culture.
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We are able to experiment and be flexible and really move with people's needs.
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One thing that we are working on a lot right now is how do we improve the user experience inside the tool when they're already there?
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I'm spending a lot of my time talking to real customers, which I love doing.
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We use real feedback to consistently update the tool.
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So a lot of what I'm doing in marketing is helping the product, but it's also allowing me to tailor the messages that we're giving to the world to what people actually care about.
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If I were to call out something fun, we have started doing some influencer marketing campaigns recently.
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I am of the opinion that nobody is going to be better at telling you that a tool is great than someone who actually uses the tool day in and day out and thinks the tool is great.
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A company can tell you all day long, we're great, we promise, we're great, we promise.
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But if you hear it from somebody who you trust, like an expert or even a friend who's like, hey, I just switched over to this Togel AI.
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And my God, it's so nice.
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I can actually shut my laptop at 5 p.m.
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And I'm not having to like be at Thanksgiving dinner going back and forth with change orders.
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It's really, really fun to be able to empower those people, those experts in the field, and um also see some very different kinds of content come out.
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Like we're working with um a wonderful guy, Matt Graves, who's uh got a, I guess, character profile, whatever you want to call it, called construction yeti.
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And he's been doing memes for us.
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It's so fun.
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Again, you got to entertain people.
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If you can entertain people, it's actually way quicker to their neural pathway so they can understand what it is you do.
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Absolutely.
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So who do you serve best?
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What's an ideal customer profile that gets the most value from Togel?
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I think our ideal customers are those larger GCs with an estimating department.
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And there's a few reasons for that.
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One of the things, we just did a case study with one of our customers, Consigli.
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They're one of the largest GCs.
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They are out of Boston, multi-billions.
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They're huge.
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And one of the biggest challenges that they faced with on-prem software, meaning the kind of legacy software you would download onto your machine, you would have to export an Excel sheet or a PDF, email it to somebody, get notes, you know, that's the traditional way of doing it.
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Toggle is totally cloud-based and allows for real-time collaboration.
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So that large GC, if you have multiple estimators or even multiple offices, like if you're not all in one physical place, having that capability is so incredibly helpful and time-saving.
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So that's why I would say it's a major reason that that is our biggest ICP.
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We can really help those people.
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Definitely.
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What's been your biggest challenge this year in marketing AI into a conservative industry like construction?
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You hit the nail on the head.
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I didn't even have to say it.
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I would just say that there's so much noise about AI in general.
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And then you go to the construction sector, and it is not an industry historically that is super open to change.
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However, I'm an optimist.
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I see the tide turning because I think more people have now actually started to update their businesses, and other businesses are now feeling a bit left behind and they're a bit more willing to come with a beginner's mind and be like, you know what, let me just learn more about this or let me just try this out.
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So I would say the actual biggest challenge right now is moving people past curiosity.
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I think there's a lot more curious people.
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Before it used to be like, I don't even want to know and want to put the blinders on.
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I just want to sit in front of on-screen takeoff and click for eight hours and nobody talk to me.
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Like that's how it used to be when I first started a couple years ago.
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Now, most people are like, okay, I know we need to update.
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I'm curious.
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I'm gonna look under the hood a little bit.
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I'll do the product tour where I can see what's inside.
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What does it look like?
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What does it feel like?
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The challenge then is moving it into real life, going past curiosity and actually having them sit down to do a demo.
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We will do a demo with someone's actual plans on the fly.
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We're that confident.
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I think that giving more people ammo to help them make a decision.
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Oh, I got a thumbs up from the riverside Google Meet gods, whatever that was.
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That's awesome.
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Um so I'm curious how how do you compete in a space where many companies are making similar claims about AI?
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Once you see it, there's really no comparison.
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Like there's really no contest.
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I would say that one of the most important things about Togul is yes, we are an AI-powered platform, but we spent more time perfecting the manual tools.
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We simplified the um, like the screen that you see only has a few buttons versus the legacy tools that have maybe like 30 or 40.
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I think we've got eight.
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Also, nobody has repeating groups.
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That's a feature that we have where you can highlight a section, copy and paste it.
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So say you're doing a hotel, you've got you know a bunch of rooms that look the same.
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Instead of having to take off every floor, you can copy and paste it.
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So it just boom, you're done.
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You do it once, boom, goes through the whole project.
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There's so many paper cuts that estimators feel that we have spent so much time alleviating for them that when they actually sit down and spend 45 minutes with Togul, they're like, oh, I can't go back.
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Like, I never want to have to name every page in my project ever again.
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And Togel's AI names every page in my project and automatically organizes it into folders for me during the upload process.
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Like that's something that would take a couple of hours and people don't even, you don't even have to think about it anymore.
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So there's so much that sets us apart.
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The overall takeaway is once you, once you try it, you really can't go back.
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That's really cool.
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So, what challenges do you face raising awareness about the brand and its products?
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I would say that the biggest challenge in raising awareness is simply that people are used to hearing from the same like five tools over and over forever.
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Um, that's why we really focus on helping young people in their career.
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We actually give Togel away for free to college students.
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We just need, we want more people out there simply trying it, using it, seeing if they like it.
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There is a really surprising, frankly, phenomenon where when people are learning to become estimators, they're being taught these antiquated tools.
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Like there hasn't been updates really at the university or the college level or the trade school level.
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So that's a that's a challenge.
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But, you know, we're we're doing a lot with, again, making it free for students, doing a lot with partnering with trade schools.
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We have a free online course, Togel Academy.
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We have a free online course on how to read blueprints.
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We really want to support younger people or people who are trying to elevate in their careers.
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And we know that us helping them, it's like that uh Jerry Maguire, like help us help you.
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Dating myself with that reference, but if you know, you know.
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Oh, yeah, of course.
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I'm working with uh the producer of Jerry Maguire on a project.
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There you go.
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Yeah, so what does uh success look like over the next year for Toggle from a marketing and growth standpoint?
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You know, world domination.
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Total, total market saturation, ideally.
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No, what I would say is the like the ooey gooey version of that is that we become a place where people feel safe to talk about and explore AI.
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I think that a lot of places, platforms, podcasts, everywhere, they're all trying to tell you what to do.
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But they're not a lot of spaces where you feel safe to fail.
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And I think that that really sets Togel apart.
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We really have a team of people who genuinely want to help, who come from the construction industry.
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Our head of customer success was an estimator, our head of growth was an estimator, our CEO and founder was an estimator, works with estimators every day at Coastal.
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We get it.
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And we get that it's scary and uncomfy.
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And so the oey-goooey answer is that to be a safe place for people in the construction industry to come and try stuff.
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Left brain marketing answer to that is simply penetrating the market more and being able to be that first answer that pops up in LLMs.
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I've been personally really, really invested in AEO, answer engine optimization over the traditional SEO or keyword research, like how we used to do things.
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So that has really been like a personal pet project for me.
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So, how do we get ranked number one in every LLM?
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That would be like gold star, gold medal for me.
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Absolutely.
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So, what trends are you seeing in AI and construction that feel real versus hype?
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What trends am I seeing in construction?
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Uh trend hype versus reality.
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Okay, a reality is that LMs in general, AI in general, is getting better.
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It is becoming more intelligent.
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There is a real, there's a real trend.
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I don't know how to quite phrase this, but bear with me.
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There's a trend that I'm seeing where if someone is of the really like nerdy, curious mindset and they want to like cobble their own stuff together and they want to code themselves, they are a lot more able to do that, right?
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Clawed code is wild, and that is very real.
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If you are a person who wants to write your own code and create your own program, you totally can.
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That said, it's gonna take you a lot longer and there's a lot more margin of error, but it is possible, which is really interesting.
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I think in the construction industry, I don't think it's there yet.
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Like I think you do still need those guardrails of a program, but I'm seeing it happen.
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There is a reality.
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A trend, a trend that I'm seeing is oh, I don't want to get in trouble.
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Tools saying they have AI and it's just a chat bot.
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It's not actually artificial intelligence.
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There's a very big difference between a chat bot that a company has like fed a bunch of documents to spit out answers for you, and artificial intelligence that intelligently scans your actual documents and plans and can hyperlink to things and elevate things intelligently like a human junior estimator would.
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Yeah, that's ooh, like you see it a lot where a tool is like, we have AI now.
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Here's the little AI robot character, ask them anything, and it's it's just a chatbot.
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That happens quite a bit.
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Right.
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I wish it didn't, but it does.
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So if we were to have this conversation again in 12 months, what would need to happen for you to feel like it was a big win for Togel?
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If we were to have this conversation in 12 months and it was a big win, I would say that people heard it and felt empowered and excited to come and check us out.
00:22:01.519 --> 00:22:14.000
I would love for people to mention you heard us on this podcast or you saw this content pop up on your feed and it made you feel like it wasn't scary.
00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:17.359
It wasn't scary to come and take the self-guided tour.
00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:28.640
It wasn't scary to come and ask us a question, show up to one of our monthly webinars, and we do a free, totally open demo to anybody who wants to come every single week.
00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:36.799
There's so many ways to learn more about this and also know that like Togul might not be the tool for you, and that's okay.
00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:38.000
We can still help you.
00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:40.319
We can still point you in the right direction.
00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:43.839
We really genuinely want this industry to modernize.
00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:46.000
And however it gets there, we're here to help.
00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:47.519
Well, I love that.
00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:51.039
And that's it for today's episode of AI Speed.
00:22:51.200 --> 00:23:03.759
A huge thank you to Kelsey Foremost for sharing her invaluable insights into how Togel is bringing AI into construction and redefining how technical products are marketed and adopted.
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:16.480
If you're building or leading an AI native company or service business that uses AI under the hood, and you care about revenue, adoption, and market share, make sure to subscribe to AI Speed.
00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:22.160
Learn how the best AI operators ship faster, sell smarter, and stay ahead.
00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:23.279
Thanks for listening.
00:23:23.359 --> 00:23:28.160
Until next time, keep building, keep selling, and keep moving at AI speed.
00:00:20.879 --> 00:00:27.280
Welcome to AI Speed, the show where AI card companies talk about what actually works in the market right now.
00:00:27.519 --> 00:00:32.560
Business doesn't move at internet speed anymore, it moves at AI speed.
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The people who figure it out how to turn models into money will own the next decade.
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I'm Evan J.
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Chaulfin, founder of Luxhammer and growth partner to high-performing brands.
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Today I'm thrilled to be joined by Kelsey Foremost, head of marketing at Togel.
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Kelsey is bringing a unique perspective to one of the most traditional industries out there, construction.
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She's leading marketing for an AI-powered platform that's transforming how estimators work while also challenging how technical products are positioned and sold through what she calls entertainment-first marketing.
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Kelsey, thank you for being here.
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Thanks so much for having me, Evan.
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You built a reputation around storytelling and brand voice.
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What led you to apply that approach to a space like construction tech?
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Because construction tech is boring, Evan, and I don't like when things are boring.
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So to give your listeners a bit of a background, I actually come from the entertainment industry.
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I was an actress and a screenwriter for 10 years and saw a lot of success in that field, but it just wasn't scratching the itch for me.
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I liked being able to be the one telling the story or helping people understand what their story was.
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And through some twists and turns, I found my way into digital marketing at a company called Omnia Media in LA.
00:01:57.920 --> 00:02:08.240
And this was in the mid-20 teens when YouTube was really starting to become a major driver of the market.
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We were seeing multi-channel, um, we were seeing like multi-channel networks were popping up.
00:02:14.960 --> 00:02:36.639
And I was really in at ground zero with seeing the power content as a business driver, not just as an entertainment driver, but to actually help companies not just get new eyes on their product, but get loyal brand advocates out in the marketplace and increase their bottom lines by millions, if not billions.
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So once I found my way into that world, I started to realize there was a huge need for boring industries like B2B SaaS, snooze, for those types of companies to start entertaining people to get that brand loyalty and that it was going to be much more effective for their marketing strategies.
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Again, not just to put content out for content's sake, but to actually create loyal brand advocates.
00:03:07.759 --> 00:03:08.400
Definitely.
00:03:08.560 --> 00:03:19.680
It's amazing the power of storytelling to really transform something that could be considered boring into really changing people's minds and building that loyalty.
00:03:19.919 --> 00:03:20.800
Absolutely.
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Totally.
00:03:21.840 --> 00:03:25.680
Well, there's a psychological aspect of storytelling too.
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If I may just really put on my nerdy pants for a minute and push my imaginary glasses up my nose, neuroscience actually shows us people are, I think, like 70% more likely to remember a story than they are to remember a fact or figure.
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So if you tell someone the story, I'll do it right now.
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If I tell you that Togul can save you, or if I tell you right now that Toggle can increase your bid rate by over 200%, and that's all that I told you, you probably wouldn't remember that.
00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:17.920
However, if I told you about Andrew Poling, who is the owner of NC Painting, who was really struggling and he used Bluebeam for years and he kept missing out on bids to his competitors and he needed to stay in business, he kind of was like, What can I do to save my business?
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And he came to Togel and he was like, Look, I'm getting 19 bids out the door per month with Bluebeam.
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Can you help me at least like try to get that up by 50% or so?
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Just like a few more bids.
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And within 60 days, he went from doing 19 bids a month to over 60 bids a month.
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And he increased his business by 250%, which is wild.
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So Andrew is an incredible example of someone who was able to increase their bid rate, sure, but save their business because he was open to adopting AI.
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Absolutely.
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And uh, you know, telling it in that story form makes a huge difference.
00:05:02.639 --> 00:05:05.360
So you're you're pro proving the point.
00:05:07.360 --> 00:05:11.199
I try to put my money where my mouth is, or my mouth where my money is.
00:05:11.920 --> 00:05:12.560
Yeah.
00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:22.319
So what makes Togel's approach unique, especially in how you're using AI to transform takeoffs and estimating workflows?
00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:24.000
That's a great question.
00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:32.720
I would say Toggle's biggest differentiator is we have been in the AI game for way longer than anybody else.
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And we have our own AI that we built from scratch.
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We are not a wrapper around something else.
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So there's a lot of buzz right now.
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There's been a lot of buzz for a couple of years, even really.
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AI, AI, AI.
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You should be using it, blah, blah, blah.
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We're sick of hearing that, right?
00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:59.279
But a lot of times now, these kind of legacy tools are just slapping on a label and saying, we have AI now, we swear.
00:05:59.519 --> 00:06:06.720
But it's just like a wrapper around something that already exists that isn't built for construction.
00:06:07.279 --> 00:06:14.959
Togel AI is built specifically for construction professionals by construction professionals.
00:06:15.120 --> 00:06:21.839
Our founder, Patrick Murphy, comes from one of the biggest construction family firms in the country, Coastal Construction.
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They've built over 70% of the Miami skyline, fourth-generation construction guy.
00:06:28.800 --> 00:06:34.240
He used to do estimates with his grandfather with a paper and a ruler.
00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:42.000
And he came back after actually serving a term in Congress and he saw that Coastal was still using this outdated software.
00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:51.839
And he thought, what if we could automate all of the repetitive tasks with artificial intelligence so that our estimators can focus on estimating?
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They can do the value ads in the project.
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They can look for maybe some missed scope.
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They can, they can spend their time more efficiently rather than clicking and coloring and counting.
00:07:04.399 --> 00:07:07.920
So this was way back in, I think, 2021, 2022.
00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:16.639
And he got some of the top talent and built toggle for construction.
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RAI is only trained on construction documents.
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It's not going to query the whole internet.
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It only knows construction.
00:07:25.920 --> 00:07:32.560
It's like having a junior estimator who already has all of this knowledge about what they should look for in a plan.
00:07:32.879 --> 00:07:33.680
Absolutely.
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So, what from what you're seeing, what's the core problem contractors and estimators are dealing with today?
00:07:40.399 --> 00:07:40.800
My gosh.
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Well, I think one of the biggest core problems is that pre-construction is the place where if something goes wrong in pre-con, it's going to cost you tons down the road.
00:07:51.759 --> 00:08:10.399
It's that metaphor of like, if you're if you're driving a big ship or you're you're doing an airplane and you're one degree off at the beginning of your flight or the beginning of your journey, it's only one degree at the beginning, but by the end of your journey, you have totally missed where you were trying to go.
00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:14.079
And it's very expensive to course correct later.
00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:22.720
That is in a nutshell why takeoffs are so hugely valuable and important, and where it can be a big problem.
00:08:23.279 --> 00:08:39.279
Costly errors, either underordering or over-ordering materials, missing scope, not getting your bid out the door fast enough and spending a ton of hours on a bid that is now irrelevant because somebody beat you to the punch.
00:08:39.679 --> 00:08:51.679
To generalize so many problems start in the pre-con phase and having AI there to help assist you can eliminate a lot of those bigger problems now.
00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:52.960
Absolutely.
00:08:53.279 --> 00:08:56.639
And your role, where are you spending most of your time right now?
00:08:56.879 --> 00:09:04.799
I my role is so exciting because Togul, even though we are an established company, we are still that startup culture.
00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:11.120
We are able to experiment and be flexible and really move with people's needs.
00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:19.679
One thing that we are working on a lot right now is how do we improve the user experience inside the tool when they're already there?
00:09:19.840 --> 00:09:24.480
I'm spending a lot of my time talking to real customers, which I love doing.
00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:29.679
We use real feedback to consistently update the tool.
00:09:29.759 --> 00:09:42.159
So a lot of what I'm doing in marketing is helping the product, but it's also allowing me to tailor the messages that we're giving to the world to what people actually care about.
00:09:42.399 --> 00:09:47.919
If I were to call out something fun, we have started doing some influencer marketing campaigns recently.
00:09:48.159 --> 00:09:59.759
I am of the opinion that nobody is going to be better at telling you that a tool is great than someone who actually uses the tool day in and day out and thinks the tool is great.
00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:04.320
A company can tell you all day long, we're great, we promise, we're great, we promise.
00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:13.039
But if you hear it from somebody who you trust, like an expert or even a friend who's like, hey, I just switched over to this Togel AI.
00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:14.960
And my God, it's so nice.
00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:17.360
I can actually shut my laptop at 5 p.m.
00:10:17.840 --> 00:10:23.519
And I'm not having to like be at Thanksgiving dinner going back and forth with change orders.
00:10:23.759 --> 00:10:32.960
It's really, really fun to be able to empower those people, those experts in the field, and um also see some very different kinds of content come out.
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Like we're working with um a wonderful guy, Matt Graves, who's uh got a, I guess, character profile, whatever you want to call it, called construction yeti.
00:10:43.919 --> 00:10:45.600
And he's been doing memes for us.
00:10:45.759 --> 00:10:46.559
It's so fun.
00:10:46.720 --> 00:10:48.399
Again, you got to entertain people.
00:10:48.559 --> 00:10:54.240
If you can entertain people, it's actually way quicker to their neural pathway so they can understand what it is you do.
00:10:54.559 --> 00:10:55.440
Absolutely.
00:10:55.679 --> 00:10:57.200
So who do you serve best?
00:10:57.360 --> 00:11:02.000
What's an ideal customer profile that gets the most value from Togel?
00:11:02.480 --> 00:11:08.080
I think our ideal customers are those larger GCs with an estimating department.
00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:09.840
And there's a few reasons for that.
00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:14.399
One of the things, we just did a case study with one of our customers, Consigli.
00:11:14.639 --> 00:11:16.559
They're one of the largest GCs.
00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:18.960
They are out of Boston, multi-billions.
00:11:19.279 --> 00:11:20.399
They're huge.
00:11:20.559 --> 00:11:37.440
And one of the biggest challenges that they faced with on-prem software, meaning the kind of legacy software you would download onto your machine, you would have to export an Excel sheet or a PDF, email it to somebody, get notes, you know, that's the traditional way of doing it.
00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:42.399
Toggle is totally cloud-based and allows for real-time collaboration.
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So that large GC, if you have multiple estimators or even multiple offices, like if you're not all in one physical place, having that capability is so incredibly helpful and time-saving.
00:11:56.960 --> 00:12:01.679
So that's why I would say it's a major reason that that is our biggest ICP.
00:12:01.840 --> 00:12:03.519
We can really help those people.
00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:04.559
Definitely.
00:12:04.879 --> 00:12:11.679
What's been your biggest challenge this year in marketing AI into a conservative industry like construction?
00:12:12.559 --> 00:12:13.759
You hit the nail on the head.
00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:15.120
I didn't even have to say it.
00:12:15.279 --> 00:12:19.679
I would just say that there's so much noise about AI in general.
00:12:19.919 --> 00:12:30.480
And then you go to the construction sector, and it is not an industry historically that is super open to change.
00:12:30.879 --> 00:12:32.879
However, I'm an optimist.
00:12:33.039 --> 00:12:52.559
I see the tide turning because I think more people have now actually started to update their businesses, and other businesses are now feeling a bit left behind and they're a bit more willing to come with a beginner's mind and be like, you know what, let me just learn more about this or let me just try this out.
00:12:52.879 --> 00:13:00.559
So I would say the actual biggest challenge right now is moving people past curiosity.
00:13:00.799 --> 00:13:03.039
I think there's a lot more curious people.
00:13:03.200 --> 00:13:07.759
Before it used to be like, I don't even want to know and want to put the blinders on.
00:13:07.840 --> 00:13:12.639
I just want to sit in front of on-screen takeoff and click for eight hours and nobody talk to me.
00:13:12.879 --> 00:13:17.279
Like that's how it used to be when I first started a couple years ago.
00:13:17.600 --> 00:13:21.759
Now, most people are like, okay, I know we need to update.
00:13:21.919 --> 00:13:22.960
I'm curious.
00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:25.519
I'm gonna look under the hood a little bit.
00:13:25.679 --> 00:13:28.879
I'll do the product tour where I can see what's inside.
00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:29.679
What does it look like?
00:13:29.840 --> 00:13:31.200
What does it feel like?
00:13:31.759 --> 00:13:39.279
The challenge then is moving it into real life, going past curiosity and actually having them sit down to do a demo.
00:13:39.519 --> 00:13:43.600
We will do a demo with someone's actual plans on the fly.
00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:45.039
We're that confident.
00:13:45.600 --> 00:13:50.799
I think that giving more people ammo to help them make a decision.
00:13:50.960 --> 00:13:57.120
Oh, I got a thumbs up from the riverside Google Meet gods, whatever that was.
00:13:58.080 --> 00:13:59.039
That's awesome.
00:13:59.200 --> 00:14:08.240
Um so I'm curious how how do you compete in a space where many companies are making similar claims about AI?
00:14:08.480 --> 00:14:10.720
Once you see it, there's really no comparison.
00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:12.320
Like there's really no contest.
00:14:12.559 --> 00:14:26.639
I would say that one of the most important things about Togul is yes, we are an AI-powered platform, but we spent more time perfecting the manual tools.
00:14:26.960 --> 00:14:36.080
We simplified the um, like the screen that you see only has a few buttons versus the legacy tools that have maybe like 30 or 40.
00:14:36.240 --> 00:14:37.360
I think we've got eight.
00:14:43.519 --> 00:14:46.000
Also, nobody has repeating groups.
00:14:46.159 --> 00:14:50.879
That's a feature that we have where you can highlight a section, copy and paste it.
00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:56.159
So say you're doing a hotel, you've got you know a bunch of rooms that look the same.
00:14:56.320 --> 00:14:59.840
Instead of having to take off every floor, you can copy and paste it.
00:14:59.919 --> 00:15:01.360
So it just boom, you're done.
00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:04.320
You do it once, boom, goes through the whole project.
00:15:04.960 --> 00:15:22.320
There's so many paper cuts that estimators feel that we have spent so much time alleviating for them that when they actually sit down and spend 45 minutes with Togul, they're like, oh, I can't go back.
00:15:22.559 --> 00:15:27.279
Like, I never want to have to name every page in my project ever again.
00:15:27.440 --> 00:15:35.919
And Togel's AI names every page in my project and automatically organizes it into folders for me during the upload process.
00:15:36.080 --> 00:15:42.720
Like that's something that would take a couple of hours and people don't even, you don't even have to think about it anymore.
00:15:43.039 --> 00:15:45.759
So there's so much that sets us apart.
00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:51.200
The overall takeaway is once you, once you try it, you really can't go back.
00:15:51.519 --> 00:15:52.720
That's really cool.
00:15:52.960 --> 00:15:57.679
So, what challenges do you face raising awareness about the brand and its products?
00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:09.519
I would say that the biggest challenge in raising awareness is simply that people are used to hearing from the same like five tools over and over forever.
00:16:09.759 --> 00:16:14.960
Um, that's why we really focus on helping young people in their career.
00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:18.639
We actually give Togel away for free to college students.
00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:24.799
We just need, we want more people out there simply trying it, using it, seeing if they like it.
00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:38.240
There is a really surprising, frankly, phenomenon where when people are learning to become estimators, they're being taught these antiquated tools.
00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:44.320
Like there hasn't been updates really at the university or the college level or the trade school level.
00:16:44.559 --> 00:16:47.360
So that's a that's a challenge.
00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:57.440
But, you know, we're we're doing a lot with, again, making it free for students, doing a lot with partnering with trade schools.
00:16:57.519 --> 00:17:00.480
We have a free online course, Togel Academy.
00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:03.600
We have a free online course on how to read blueprints.
00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:09.519
We really want to support younger people or people who are trying to elevate in their careers.
00:17:09.680 --> 00:17:15.200
And we know that us helping them, it's like that uh Jerry Maguire, like help us help you.
00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:20.079
Dating myself with that reference, but if you know, you know.
00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:22.559
Oh, yeah, of course.
00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:27.200
I'm working with uh the producer of Jerry Maguire on a project.
00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:30.079
There you go.
00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:38.400
Yeah, so what does uh success look like over the next year for Toggle from a marketing and growth standpoint?
00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:40.559
You know, world domination.
00:17:42.079 --> 00:17:45.039
Total, total market saturation, ideally.
00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:58.720
No, what I would say is the like the ooey gooey version of that is that we become a place where people feel safe to talk about and explore AI.
00:17:59.039 --> 00:18:08.240
I think that a lot of places, platforms, podcasts, everywhere, they're all trying to tell you what to do.
00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:13.200
But they're not a lot of spaces where you feel safe to fail.
00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:16.160
And I think that that really sets Togel apart.
00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:23.200
We really have a team of people who genuinely want to help, who come from the construction industry.
00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:33.039
Our head of customer success was an estimator, our head of growth was an estimator, our CEO and founder was an estimator, works with estimators every day at Coastal.
00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:34.880
We get it.
00:18:35.119 --> 00:18:38.799
And we get that it's scary and uncomfy.
00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:47.680
And so the oey-goooey answer is that to be a safe place for people in the construction industry to come and try stuff.
00:18:48.079 --> 00:19:01.279
Left brain marketing answer to that is simply penetrating the market more and being able to be that first answer that pops up in LLMs.
00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:12.960
I've been personally really, really invested in AEO, answer engine optimization over the traditional SEO or keyword research, like how we used to do things.
00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:16.960
So that has really been like a personal pet project for me.
00:19:17.119 --> 00:19:20.240
So, how do we get ranked number one in every LLM?
00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:23.920
That would be like gold star, gold medal for me.
00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:25.039
Absolutely.
00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:31.359
So, what trends are you seeing in AI and construction that feel real versus hype?
00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:35.519
What trends am I seeing in construction?
00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:39.759
Uh trend hype versus reality.
00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:47.519
Okay, a reality is that LMs in general, AI in general, is getting better.
00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:50.400
It is becoming more intelligent.
00:19:50.640 --> 00:19:53.200
There is a real, there's a real trend.
00:19:53.359 --> 00:19:56.720
I don't know how to quite phrase this, but bear with me.
00:19:56.880 --> 00:20:12.559
There's a trend that I'm seeing where if someone is of the really like nerdy, curious mindset and they want to like cobble their own stuff together and they want to code themselves, they are a lot more able to do that, right?
00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:16.720
Clawed code is wild, and that is very real.
00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:23.519
If you are a person who wants to write your own code and create your own program, you totally can.
00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:32.000
That said, it's gonna take you a lot longer and there's a lot more margin of error, but it is possible, which is really interesting.
00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:37.759
I think in the construction industry, I don't think it's there yet.
00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:44.000
Like I think you do still need those guardrails of a program, but I'm seeing it happen.
00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:45.200
There is a reality.
00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:49.920
A trend, a trend that I'm seeing is oh, I don't want to get in trouble.
00:20:50.240 --> 00:20:57.119
Tools saying they have AI and it's just a chat bot.
00:20:57.920 --> 00:21:01.359
It's not actually artificial intelligence.
00:21:01.519 --> 00:21:25.839
There's a very big difference between a chat bot that a company has like fed a bunch of documents to spit out answers for you, and artificial intelligence that intelligently scans your actual documents and plans and can hyperlink to things and elevate things intelligently like a human junior estimator would.
00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:31.279
Yeah, that's ooh, like you see it a lot where a tool is like, we have AI now.
00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:36.720
Here's the little AI robot character, ask them anything, and it's it's just a chatbot.
00:21:37.119 --> 00:21:38.799
That happens quite a bit.
00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:39.519
Right.
00:21:39.680 --> 00:21:41.759
I wish it didn't, but it does.
00:21:42.559 --> 00:21:50.079
So if we were to have this conversation again in 12 months, what would need to happen for you to feel like it was a big win for Togel?
00:21:50.400 --> 00:22:01.359
If we were to have this conversation in 12 months and it was a big win, I would say that people heard it and felt empowered and excited to come and check us out.
00:22:01.519 --> 00:22:14.000
I would love for people to mention you heard us on this podcast or you saw this content pop up on your feed and it made you feel like it wasn't scary.
00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:17.359
It wasn't scary to come and take the self-guided tour.
00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:28.640
It wasn't scary to come and ask us a question, show up to one of our monthly webinars, and we do a free, totally open demo to anybody who wants to come every single week.
00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:36.799
There's so many ways to learn more about this and also know that like Togul might not be the tool for you, and that's okay.
00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:38.000
We can still help you.
00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:40.319
We can still point you in the right direction.
00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:43.839
We really genuinely want this industry to modernize.
00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:46.000
And however it gets there, we're here to help.
00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:47.519
Well, I love that.
00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:51.039
And that's it for today's episode of AI Speed.
00:22:51.200 --> 00:23:03.759
A huge thank you to Kelsey Foremost for sharing her invaluable insights into how Togel is bringing AI into construction and redefining how technical products are marketed and adopted.
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:16.480
If you're building or leading an AI native company or service business that uses AI under the hood, and you care about revenue, adoption, and market share, make sure to subscribe to AI Speed.
00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:22.160
Learn how the best AI operators ship faster, sell smarter, and stay ahead.
00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:23.279
Thanks for listening.
00:23:23.359 --> 00:23:28.160
Until next time, keep building, keep selling, and keep moving at AI speed.
