89: The Buffet--Why Mixing Drugs Is Deadlier and Harder to Treat

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You are literally participating in a different version of Russian roulette any and every time.
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This is the Addiction Recovery Podcast with Steven T.
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Ginsburg, founder of Restore Detox Centers in Sunny California.
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Enjoy your experience.
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Steven, last week we spoke about alcohol use and how it's decreasing, at least in the United States, which is a great trend.
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In my research, I also found a disturbing trend, which is the rise of meth and this idea of polysubstance use, which I think you refer to it as the buffet of drug use.
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So I want to talk about this because we've done other episodes about fentanyl and how that gets all the attention, especially lately.
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But at the same time, like I mentioned, meth is also surging.
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And what's scary about this surge, it's now even higher purity and lower cost because cartel production has become more efficient, which is, I mean, it's a big business.
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So it's it's crazy to think about drug production, you know, as a business, like a manufacturing business, but that's what's going on.
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It's now found that meth is increasingly being mixed with fentanyl, which obviously dramatically raises overdose risks.
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And so I want to talk to you about this very important subject.
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And let's maybe we can unpack meth first, and then we can talk about the buffet of drug use second.
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Yeah, listen, Steve, I love it.
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I'm really glad we're onto this, and we're gonna take a minute and step back and unpack this.
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First and foremost, you know, spot on and very apropos topic.
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Meth use is on the rise, meth use is increasing, there's more exposure, it's less costly, it's easier to manufacture, it's more dangerous.
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They're mixing it in with fentanyl because they can produce more and it's so cheap and synthetic and it makes it more potent.
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And then what does it do?
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It kills more people.
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So, to your point, just right out of the gate, that use is on the rise, and deaths from that are on the rise.
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And then what people are choosing to do is pull other elements into the mix because the meth is so much more powerful and gets them so much more heightened, they'll use different materials to act as a sedative base and bring themselves down to earth.
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So you end up with this perfect dangerous storm.
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So let's talk about meth first.
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What actually is in meth?
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Like I've seen TV shows and documentaries where people are going to the grocery store and they're buying like Sudafed and you know, Benadryl and all this like crap, and then they go home and they're like cooking it in pots.
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And is that what it is?
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It's just like a blend of all these over-the-counter drugs, or is there some type of element like cocaine, you know, like where it's coming from, like the cocoa plant or whatever?
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It has a speed-based element to it, much like cocaine, but it's it's like a junkyard drug, meaning like the pseudophedron and and the ant the antihistamemes are also mixed in for the effect and and cooked and and drawn up and out, and it's blended into this substance that is like smoked, shot, or snorted, which produces, you know, really like a cocaine-like high, but like times a thousand, and it's it's just a very dirty drug, and it and it's just very detrimental uh overall to anyone's well-being.
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It's like literally poisoning your body.
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I mean, I can't imagine all that stuff mixed together and cooked together and then put into your body.
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It's gotta be like terrible for you.
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It's so monumentally bad across the board that it it just literally, it just literally endangers you in so many different ways.
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There's a massive stroke risk, there's massive seizure risk, uh, there's massive overdose risk.
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Other than that, it's it's terrific.
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Uh, there's no upside to this at all.
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It's just a horrible drug.
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And again, very, very cheap to produce.
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And it's, you know, very much the things we see on the TV shows and whatnot, those are real connotations of what occurs.
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You know, you've got these, you've got the smaller side of it where like individuals are producing it like on a almost like a personal use level, but you really do have that bigger side where like labs or chemists, if you would, are are mixing this and making this and and putting it out there.
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And it's a it's a humongous amount of commerce that is gained through this deadly element being produced and provided.
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So, I mean, what are we talking about here?
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And maybe you don't know the the actual figures because I know you're not out on the streets trying to buy drugs, but like what's the comparison if somebody wanted to get high using cocaine versus get high using meth, is it like uh like a five to one difference, cocaine being the the more expensive drug, or is it like 10 to 1?
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Like give me some type of cocaine.
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No, uh, you're right, you're right on track, and like it's more of like a 10 to or a 20 to 1 basis.
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You know, one is so much more expensive at being the cocaine side of it, and one of them is so much more synthetic, so they can produce and provide more to more people and and hit all sorts of income types, and it's more readily available, and it and it it is really crossing over in that capacity, and it is just real, you know, Steve, it's just really, really dangerous.
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Well, especially like when it's mixed with fentanyl.
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Like I remember when we're together and you had like a few crumbs, and you're like, this right here will kill you.
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And it's like really that that amount, you know, you'd think like a a spoonful of it would kill you, but no, it's like a few grains, like a few grains of salt kills you.
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It really is that, and you're you're right.
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I have that slide where you see that next to a penny, and that's enough to kill you and I and some other people, and it's just that's where, again, we are in this place where there's such a sense of urgency, Steve.
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You just don't know what you're doing anymore as far as what you're getting, what's mixed in, what it was cut with.
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And you aren't you are endangering your life literally every time because that the exposure to fentanyl is very probable and very likely, and you don't know what degree or amount, if it's mixed in there, on what basis is gonna even allow you to make it through that day or that night alive.
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Okay, let's talk about cutting because I've always been curious about this in in some way.
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How do drugs get cut?
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Why do they get cut?
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What do people use when they cut it?
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Is is the idea behind cutting, like I got some drugs, um, I'm gonna go sell to somebody, but I want to increase the volume, so I'm gonna mix in some like white stuff to to like dilute it or to just I don't know, make more money.
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Is that the idea behind cutting or what?
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In in in a nutshell, it's to make more out of less, and so they they can have a bigger financial gain.
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And then sometimes because fentanyl is so cheap, it really is, they can also cut that in so that it has a strong effect, literally a strong effect with the drug, and so it's it's received where this is a really potent batch or this is a dealer with really potent stuff that they're offering.
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And again, that that also provides a return, but it but you are endangering lives every time.
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Like I I remember back like back in the day when I was like 10 years old hearing stories of people cutting cocaine with like rat poisoning.
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I is I mean, is that kind of stuff true?
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Like you just mix it with whatever just like anything that's powder-like, that I mean that's crazy.
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What we're talking about is crazy, but it's it's the crazy reality of it, and it's it's sad and painful, and it's it's where there is such a tremendous sense of urgency, and it's also a space where I really can't stress enough how imperative it is for parents to have these really bold conversations with their children and and help them to understand what they're dealing with, what they're facing.
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Yeah, I mean, so it's like a kid, yeah.
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I mean, you could be a kid in high school or in college, or you could even be an adult.
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Somebody comes up to you and says, Hey, here I got some of this, try it.
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And it's just like I'm guessing it's a white powder.
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I've never seen meth, so I don't know what it looks like, but um, it's like here, try some of this, and you have no clue.
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Like no clue what's in it.
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And it's like, here, just like snort this up your nose.
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You are literally participating in a different version of Russian roulette any and every time.
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There was an honor student from our area.
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This individual never had a drug problem, never had drug history.
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Honor student graduated from high school, went on a retreat, and that was the time where this individual chose to try a narcotic and they overdosed on it.
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I'm being very ambiguous intentionally for the sake of the family.
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That individual did not make it out of that first experimentation alive, died from fentanyl exposure.
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And that can happen to anyone.
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Yeah, so sad.
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Okay, let's switch gears here.
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Let's talk about the rise of this like buffet drug use.
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And I want to hear your perspective on how it impacts treatment.
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Because from my understanding, it I mean, it probably makes things more complex.
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If somebody comes to you or comes to a store and says, Hey, you know, I'm struggling with heroin abuse, um, it's like, here's a singular drug.
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Perhaps you know the effects, perhaps there's like countermeasures you could take to overcome that one drug.
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But what if somebody just they they take everything?
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They drink, they smoke weed, they use heroin, they do meth, they do cocaine, you know, they're they're using acid, like all this stuff, right?
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Where do you even start?
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Does that make treat treatment way more difficult to do?
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It makes treatment like this like you take a glass of water and you throw it in the ocean.
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There's this massive issue, and it's where I get very basic and where I shift into a very low gear and keep it simple.
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I'm complicated, the solution is simple.
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If there's unmanageability in your life behind any substance use and abuse, the only resolution for that unmanageability is through complete abstinence.
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From what?
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From everything.
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And so we take it case by case basis, we look at what's happening, what's being ingested, when, how much, why, start getting into the trauma, get into the solution, introduce a program of recovery, introduce a lifestyle of recovery, and we work out from there.
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So yeah, yes, it's more complex because you have to assess what's going on.
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The simplicity and the baseline for it is it is abstinence from any and all mind-altering substances.
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But do you see that?
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Is that reality where somebody just does the buffet of drugs or yes, okay.
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They will do any, and it's sorry to jump right in, but you're again, you trigger me sometimes, which is a good thing to be triggered.
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They, of course, they'll do anything that they can get their hands on.
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And they and they do.
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You know, they've had some cocaine and then they need some alcohol to take it off, and then they they they do some GHP and then they do some methane, and they take pills, and I mean they're all over the place.
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Smoke pot.
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I mean, it's like everything.
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It's like, hey, like this all needs to be shut down.
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There's nothing, there's no upside to any of this.
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Like, this is a runaway train.
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This is about abstinence, this is about sobriety.
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Uh, normal people aren't living like that on a day-to-day basis.
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Uh, and people who are living like that on a day-to-day basis, they need help, they need sobriety, they often need medical detox, and then they need to work a 12-step program of sobriety.
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That's you know, that with the conception of a power grid in themselves is going to deliver the solution and the remission, the reprieve on a daily basis.
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I'm assuming that increases the risk of overdose, like, because you don't even know what these drugs are doing to you.
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Like when you're when you're mixing them and you're, you know, you're going from one drug to the next.
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I mean, it it's got to be suicide in a lot of ways.
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It's it's so detrimental, Steve.
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It's so dangerous.
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There's I mean, you and I could spend cumulatively hours on this part of the topic because you're just gaining the trajectory on the risk, you're broadening the scope of the risk, you're bringing other elements and interactions into the equation that you have no idea how that's all gonna go.
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And you are literally, the individual is literally categorically risking their life every time when they have that type of ingestation of multiple substances on any of these given times where they're quote unquote partying.
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Yeah, by the way, even like a casual, sorry, but but even a casual user was like, Oh, I'm having some like you know, some drinks, and then like I smoke a little bit of weed, and I'm like, dude, well, you like that is detrimental.
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Yeah, and those are are things that are considered baseline, you know, baseline to what you're altered in so many ways.
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You know how many people have falls, like they physically fall where they live, and they they really injure themselves, or they letally you know how many people I've had from restore who've died because they've fallen in their home and they've ended up dead because they hit their head.
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It's from these blends, it's from the these the strengths of these substances, and especially cumulative when that strength is bolstered by being used together, it's just absolutely fatal, and it's it's just unreal because this still is going on as we speak right now.
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People are participating in exactly what we're talking about, but there is hope, there's a solution, and the solution is in clarity and in sobriety and in a lifestyle of that.
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No, I agree absolutely 100%.
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I mean, I was just thinking here of like a little metaphor, maybe it's a little experiment I need to do with my kids.
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You know, if I went up to my kids and said, hey, here's a spoonful of something I'm gonna put in a blindfold on your eyes, open your mouth, and I'm gonna feed it to you, they'd probably be like, Yeah, right, dad, you're not gonna do that.
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I mean, it could be anything.
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What if it's like chicken that's been sitting out in the sun for the last three days and it's full of salmonella?
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Or maybe it's just something nasty, maybe it's like a spoonful of you know, cayenne pepper or something.
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You know, nobody would do that, but like when our minds are altered, especially if like we're doing some of the gateway drugs and then our minds are altered and somebody offers us something else, like you have no clue, no clue what's inside that, and you put that in your body.
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I mean, it's insane.
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And I think we need to get the message out there.
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So we want to hear from you.
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What are your thoughts on this whole idea of the buffet drug use that's going on in the U.S.?
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You could also uh email us about meth.
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What are you seeing out there?
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Do you believe this is crazy too?
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Or are we just here on an island?
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Steven, always great to be with you, brother.
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Steve, thank you so much.
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Please know out there we want to hear from you.
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We love you.
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We are for you.
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Everyone, have a safe and sober day.