WEBVTT
00:00:45.089 -->
00:00:54.435Arden Counts crafts queer romantic suspense novels that delve deep into the complexities of love and self-discovery as a trans, non-binary individual.
00:00:54.435 -->
00:00:59.484Arden uses their own experiences and those of their peers to enhance their work.
00:00:59.484 -->
00:01:08.545In their varied and diverse writing, their goal is to share the queer experience with readers, no matter their gender identity or sexual orientation.
00:01:08.545 -->
00:01:12.674Readers, no matter their gender identity or sexual orientation.
00:01:12.674 -->
00:01:16.102It's Arden's goal to have their writing act as a launching pad to build a community around queer issues and identities.
00:01:16.102 -->
00:01:24.033Arden wishes to fill the gap in the publishing industry that exists for people who realize their sexuality and gender later in life.
00:01:24.033 -->
00:01:29.688Through this community, arden's goal is to give readers hope that they can find love even as they navigate their journeys.
00:01:29.688 -->
00:01:31.228Arden's goal is to give readers hope that they can find love even as they navigate their journeys.
00:01:31.228 -->
00:01:38.674Arden's work also aims to encourage readers to think differently about their own perceptions, perspectives and assumptions.
00:01:38.674 -->
00:01:40.378Here's our conversation.
00:01:40.378 -->
00:01:42.342Welcome, arden.
00:01:42.342 -->
00:01:43.691Thank you for being on the show.
00:01:43.710 -->
00:01:46.575Hi, thank you so much for having me.
00:01:47.137 -->
00:01:47.817Arden.
00:01:47.817 -->
00:01:50.983Before we get started, can you let us know what your pronouns are?
00:01:51.644 -->
00:01:55.400Oh, absolutely, I use they, them pronouns Okay great.
00:01:56.550 -->
00:02:01.222So you actually are the second novelist we've had on.
00:02:01.222 -->
00:02:07.699The one person we had does graphic novels, so I'm excited to hear about your twist on things.
00:02:07.699 -->
00:02:14.697His was like a historical sci-fi twist on things, yeah, so I'll have to definitely connect you to your.
00:02:14.697 -->
00:02:22.538But so you write queer romantic suspense novels focusing on love and self-discovery.
00:02:24.021 -->
00:02:27.158Yes, I like to say that I write.
00:02:27.158 -->
00:02:29.838They're like eighties action movies, but gay.
00:02:31.009 -->
00:02:39.145Okay, all right, so tell us about what you have recently published.
00:02:40.211 -->
00:02:55.939Yeah, I have been working on a trilogy for the last two years, with the first book coming out last year and that was Fall Into Midnight, and then this year I published books two and three of that series, which are Fall Into Me.
00:02:55.939 -->
00:02:58.426That came out in June of 2024.
00:02:58.426 -->
00:03:04.856And the last book in the trilogy we All Fall just came out, november 12th.
00:03:04.856 -->
00:03:12.788Congratulations I am self-published in the author.
00:03:12.788 -->
00:03:17.855It has been a journey what got you into writing?
00:03:17.896 -->
00:03:23.171have you always been interested in in in writing or the arts in some form?
00:03:23.872 -->
00:03:24.873oh yeah, absolutely.
00:03:24.873 -->
00:03:39.917I grew up with a mother that was a very avid reader and kind of made sure that all of us kids had an appreciation for books, would drop us off at the library as our babysitter kind of situation.
00:03:39.917 -->
00:03:46.323So I grew up reading and was also a very sad and depressed child.
00:03:46.323 -->
00:03:52.891So I turned to poetry and writing to get my feelings out and express what I was feeling.
00:03:52.891 -->
00:04:08.998And it started back when I was eight-ish and I have been writing ever since but didn't take the leap into publishing until 2022 to 2023.
00:04:08.998 -->
00:04:15.251So it took me a while to get there, but I finally took the leap okay, oh, you said you were.
00:04:15.471 -->
00:04:19.760I have to ask you said you were as a child you were sad and depressed.
00:04:19.760 -->
00:04:21.089What contributed to that?
00:04:22.072 -->
00:04:23.493oh, so many things.
00:04:23.493 -->
00:04:41.519I grew up in a very rural nebraska, like north central Nebraska more cows than people type of situation and mental health, like sexuality and gender conversations were non-existent.
00:04:41.519 -->
00:05:14.230Especially during that time as well, like in the 80s and 90s, and it being in Nebraska, being being Nebraska, those conversations weren't had and I grew up with this sense of not belonging anywhere and just being like so desperately alone and that really impacted my mental health because I felt like I didn't belong but I didn't know why I didn't belong or what was causing those feelings.
00:05:14.230 -->
00:05:19.643So, working out through poetry, just really sad poems.
00:05:22.290 -->
00:05:23.473So you didn't.
00:05:23.473 -->
00:05:28.482You felt like you were different, but you didn't know how or why or to what extent.
00:05:28.542 -->
00:05:37.781Initially, yeah, and I think it was primarily because I didn't have the language right, because no one was like I always.
00:05:37.781 -->
00:06:22.129I grew up with three brothers and I always thought of myself as one of the boys and didn't know that I wasn't until I got a little older and I think, if I have the language now to be like, okay, I'm transmasc, non-binary, that is who I am now, but it took me a long time.
00:06:22.129 -->
00:06:36.334It has been a journey through many different um, I don't know, I guess, like definitions of myself okay, yeah, or then during the art as a writer.
00:06:36.634 -->
00:06:37.877You mentioned about your childhood.
00:06:37.877 -->
00:06:43.852A lot is are there any character in any of those novels, that kind of your childhood?
00:06:45.233 -->
00:06:47.533oh, that is a great question.
00:06:48.033 -->
00:06:48.675Oh man.
00:06:48.894 -->
00:07:12.408I think most of the characters represent me through probably my 20s and 30s where I was still figuring out who I was and struggling with self-confidence and just finding that confidence to be who I am and who I want to be.
00:07:12.408 -->
00:07:17.449Especially in the first book, fall Into Midnight, the two main characters, gray and Hannah.
00:07:17.449 -->
00:07:46.879Gray is this gender-fluid, very confident, capable character and Hannah is a shy, introverted character and those are very much two parts of who I am and in the end they become one and are this wonderful couple of confidence and like caring and empathy and that's definitely kind of my journey of finding myself in a book that one's definitely special to me.
00:07:49.242 -->
00:07:50.864So your characters.
00:07:50.864 -->
00:07:55.877So it's a trilogy, so are the same two characters in each of the books.
00:07:57.060 -->
00:08:00.036Ooh, they did it fun.
00:08:00.036 -->
00:08:03.098They did it in kind of a fun way, I think.
00:08:03.098 -->
00:08:07.987So each book is told from a different couple's point of view.
00:08:07.987 -->
00:08:11.177Okay, but the same characters are in all three books.
00:08:11.177 -->
00:08:19.677So book one and the storyline is overarching throughout each book, so you have to read all three to get the full story.
00:08:20.040 -->
00:08:20.341Okay.
00:08:20.670 -->
00:08:34.961But book one is Hannah and Gray, and then book two are Key and Marcus and they're a hetero couple, and then book three is James and Luke.
00:08:34.961 -->
00:08:50.980So we get the whole spectrum of relationships and different issues that they encounter, but their goal throughout all three books are to overcome the mafia boss that is causing all the issues.
00:08:51.842 -->
00:08:53.164Okay, I like it.
00:08:53.164 -->
00:09:02.836You're being very inclusive when you write your novels, not just being on one end of the spectrum, so I really like that yeah.
00:09:03.890 -->
00:09:27.094So there is a protagonist and you are telling the story of their interaction with the mafia boss from different couples perspectives, while at the same time you are telling about some relationship issues that they have going on as well yeah, there's definitely oh, I'm like I don't know if I want to call them relationship issues.
00:09:27.555 -->
00:10:04.418Definitely a lot of the issues in the books are caused by our protagonist, okay, but the couple, especially Key and Marcus, because Marcus goes through some really traumatizing events and Key has to recognize that he's been through these things and has a little PTSD there's some mental health struggles going on there and has to overcome her desire to be almost too caring towards him and has to back off a little bit until he's ready for her to move at at the pace that he's ready for.
00:10:04.418 -->
00:10:19.359So I also like to flip a little bit of the gender role that you would normally see in books, like you'd normally see the male character as the hero that's protecting the damsel in distress and I don't go for that, I've worked with it.
00:10:19.359 -->
00:10:27.423So Key is definitely the badass in that book and is caring for Marcus and making sure that he's okay and nursing him back to health.
00:10:27.662 -->
00:10:33.529Okay, very cool, he's okay.
00:10:33.529 -->
00:10:34.391And nursing him back to health?
00:10:34.391 -->
00:10:35.052Okay, very cool.
00:10:35.052 -->
00:10:39.159So do any other relationships that you have observed um inform the characters in the novel?
00:10:39.159 -->
00:10:41.803So friends, family, anything like that?
00:10:42.690 -->
00:10:45.013oh yeah, another great question.
00:10:45.013 -->
00:10:46.655Oh, these are wonderful questions.
00:10:46.655 -->
00:10:55.231I think a lot of it is my own experiences and the things that I desire.
00:10:55.231 -->
00:11:04.471So I explore a lot of platonic relationships as well, like the different types of relationships that you could have.
00:11:04.471 -->
00:11:12.404You have your like your co-workers, that you're like close to right but you're maybe not like as close to them as you are with your friends.
00:11:12.404 -->
00:11:17.522You have like really close, intimate, platonic relationships with people.
00:11:17.522 -->
00:11:32.532Then you have your intimate relationships with people, and so I explore that whole realm and the different types of partnerships, and that's something that comes from my own desire to have those types of relationships.
00:11:32.532 -->
00:11:39.495I'm a very kind of introverted person and it's hard for me to build those things.
00:11:39.495 -->
00:11:46.553Writing has been a way for me to explore what that would be like and how I envision those relationships to be.
00:11:47.415 -->
00:11:47.996I like.
00:11:47.996 -->
00:11:53.745So you mentioned that you didn't actually.
00:11:53.745 -->
00:11:58.782Actually, I want to back up because you said you identify as trans mask non-binary.
00:11:58.782 -->
00:12:00.894What exactly did that mean?
00:12:02.197 -->
00:12:05.142Yes, I love and hate this question at the same time.
00:12:05.142 -->
00:12:10.118So this is this is my own definition of it but but non-binary.
00:12:10.118 -->
00:12:17.957I don't identify as female or male, but I trend towards masculine.
00:12:17.957 -->
00:12:27.855I have I prefer to be seen as more male than female physically, if that makes sense yeah.
00:12:29.339 -->
00:12:36.076Do you feel more internally that you have more masculine or more tradition?
00:12:36.076 -->
00:12:38.462What are considered more traditionally masculine traits?
00:12:38.930 -->
00:12:40.032yeah, absolutely.
00:12:40.032 -->
00:12:44.861But I also I'm very adamant about it's like a catch-22.
00:12:44.861 -->
00:13:00.261Like I want to be seen as male, but I don't want to be seen as a man, so like I have a little torn there because there's a lot of I don't see myself as a man, but I have masculine energy.
00:13:00.261 -->
00:13:04.324Just make sure we put it yeah.
00:13:04.805 -->
00:13:05.486And you also.
00:13:05.486 -->
00:13:19.415So, yeah, I agree, we all have masculine and feminine energy internally and that can get displayed in our interactions with our partners, our interactions with the world, but some people don't.
00:13:19.415 -->
00:13:21.401That happens in varying degrees.
00:13:21.401 -->
00:13:23.949That can happen based on who you're interacting with.
00:13:23.949 -->
00:13:38.832You may have more feminine, express yourself more in a more feminine way, depending on who you're interacting with, for various reasons, and sometimes those things are separate from our gender identity or our gender expression.
00:13:38.892 -->
00:14:11.392But sometimes people like for those things to coincide or to be or how I feel internally be represented externally yes, I, oh sorry I was gonna say I really appreciate that you mentioned that energy can shift depending on who you're communicating with and interacting with, because that's something I've noticed about myself and I'm always like, oh my gosh, does that mean I'm not like authentic, does that mean I'm not really transmasc?
00:14:11.392 -->
00:14:20.959And so I've had a lot of internal struggle trying to understand interaction and the energy that I put out.
00:14:20.959 -->
00:14:22.520But yeah, I don't know.
00:14:22.520 -->
00:14:33.048That just makes me feel great that you mentioned that, because I'm like okay, yeah, it is okay to put out different energy based on who you're interacting with.
00:14:33.528 -->
00:14:34.309Yeah, for sure.
00:14:34.309 -->
00:14:52.474I think that you being your most authentic self, if you are able to, either consciously or subconsciously, tap into that or to allow that to be expressed, based on what that person is bringing out in you, because there's a I suppose it's always a balance.
00:14:52.474 -->
00:14:53.558There's yin and yang, right?
00:14:53.558 -->
00:15:04.413So if you are interacting with someone who is more feminine, maybe that brings out more femininity in you, and so you, you tap into the quote-unquote girliness a little bit more.
00:15:04.794 -->
00:15:19.380It could bring out the opposite in you, and it could have a lot to do with the person, but also a lot to do with where you are in life and what recently has happened to you or what you recently experienced, to make you say, oh, I want to show up in this situation in a little more masculine way.
00:15:19.380 -->
00:15:50.741Or I'm feeling very I don't even know the word besides feminine, but I can think of it right now but I'm feeling very and I hate to use other words because I don't want to say emotional or in tune with my emotions, because that is not necessarily uniquely feminine, although women, people who are more feminine, tend to display those emotions in a more, in a less aggressive way than who consider themselves more masculine.
00:15:50.741 -->
00:16:00.658But yeah, it's to the point that I feel like people are their most authentic selves when they're able to be more fluid in how they express themselves.
00:16:00.658 -->
00:16:03.486They start in the person I love that.
00:16:03.647 -->
00:16:09.180yeah, that's a great way to to see that interaction.
00:16:09.401 -->
00:16:18.454So, yeah, that's the beauty of the queer community, right, you're able to express yourself, and that's the beauty of having a podcast that don't judge.
00:16:18.454 -->
00:16:21.075So be yourself, be your true, authentic self.
00:16:21.075 -->
00:16:23.357So I'm a person surrounding.
00:16:23.357 -->
00:16:25.956It's like a step back as well.
00:16:25.956 -->
00:16:40.554Where you met you, you identified as trans, mass, non-binary and you said growing up in Nebraska, where it's a very rural state and people, most people, probably have no idea what you're talking about.
00:16:40.554 -->
00:16:43.789How did you navigate that, especially with family and friends?
00:16:43.789 -->
00:16:47.076When you talk about those things, what's your perception, reflection?
00:16:48.279 -->
00:16:50.203It was interesting.
00:16:50.203 -->
00:16:57.858I first came out as bi when I was in high school and that didn't go well.
00:16:57.858 -->
00:17:19.400My mother and sister I don't really remember how my father reacted, which could mean who knows what that means, but my mom and sister had kids reacted very poorly, and especially my older sister, which is interesting in and of itself.
00:17:19.400 -->
00:17:23.055But I also don't remember how my brothers reacted.
00:17:23.055 -->
00:17:25.483I don't think they really cared, they were probably like whatever.
00:17:25.483 -->
00:17:41.134But and then I got this journey where, when I got into college, I was still saying I was bisexual, but I was also leaning more towards being pansexual or gender fluid as well.
00:17:41.620 -->
00:17:46.573But it took me until my 20s, when I was and I excluded my parents and family from all of this.
00:17:46.573 -->
00:17:47.101I was just like.
00:17:47.101 -->
00:17:53.354I think it's going to be easier if they just think I'm like bi or don't know anything.
00:17:53.354 -->
00:18:00.981Don't know anything.
00:18:00.981 -->
00:18:03.751But when I decided, when I was, finally I had this breakthrough moment in therapy and I was like I'm in the wrong body.
00:18:03.751 -->
00:18:27.912I've always been in the wrong body and the reason I'm so sad all the time, even into my 30s, is because I'm not who I'm supposed to be and that helped me make the decision to get top surgery, so essentially like a double mastectomy, and I was like I have to tell my mom that I'm having surgery, just in case something happens to me.
00:18:28.072 -->
00:18:33.471It was more of a if I suddenly pass away from surgery or something.
00:18:33.471 -->
00:18:36.083I would like for her to know that I was having surgery.
00:18:36.083 -->
00:18:46.956I had to have a conversation with her about it and I didn't tell her that I was trans.
00:18:46.956 -->
00:19:02.605I was just, yeah, I'm just having a breast reduction and went that way and it's taken some time.
00:19:02.605 -->
00:19:05.394But I'm two and a half years, I think, into my transition and being on testosterone and moving forward with everything.
00:19:05.596 -->
00:19:06.860And she is trying.
00:19:06.860 -->
00:19:09.504She's trying to use my preferred name.
00:19:09.504 -->
00:19:12.872She's trying to get on board with it.
00:19:12.872 -->
00:19:26.801I think she still has a hard time wrapping her brain around it, but there is obvious effort there of her trying and that's really all I can hope for, kind of, at this point.
00:19:26.801 -->
00:19:29.327And my grandma who's 80, is totally on board.
00:19:29.327 -->
00:19:32.384And I was just like yes, grandma, thank you, you go granny.
00:19:32.384 -->
00:19:33.709Yeah, I was like, thank you so much.
00:19:33.709 -->
00:19:34.913She's like which name do you want me to use?
00:19:34.913 -->
00:19:35.354Do you want me?
00:19:35.354 -->
00:19:37.019She's like which name do you want me to use?
00:19:37.019 -->
00:19:38.163Do you want me to call you a?
00:19:38.163 -->
00:19:39.586Do you want me to call you arden?
00:19:39.586 -->
00:19:40.890Like just let me know.
00:19:40.931 -->
00:19:55.468And I was just like yes, thank you, that's wonderful we actually heard this several times that grandparents have been much more accepting, and I don't know if it's an age thing where people are just like fuck it, do whatever you want to do we don don't care anymore.
00:19:55.468 -->
00:19:57.192Or what the situation is.
00:19:57.192 -->
00:19:59.608But yeah, we have heard this a couple of times.
00:20:02.144 -->
00:20:03.989So what's the support like in Nebraska?
00:20:03.989 -->
00:20:06.306Because I've never been to Nebraska.
00:20:06.306 -->
00:20:07.570What's it getting into?
00:20:07.570 -->
00:20:09.567Do you have a community there?
00:20:09.567 -->
00:20:10.721I?
00:20:12.592 -->
00:20:14.320assume there is community.
00:20:14.320 -->
00:20:20.084In some places in Nebraska Maybe the bigger places like Lincoln and Omaha there's probably community.
00:20:20.084 -->
00:20:23.591I avoid Nebraska at all costs.
00:20:23.591 -->
00:20:26.061I haven't been home in quite a while.
00:20:26.061 -->
00:20:29.404I have a lot of probably.
00:20:29.404 -->
00:20:38.214Some of it is probably just me being very scared because of like.
00:20:38.234 -->
00:20:46.149When I was a kid I there was one person in our high school that was out and people would throw rocks at him.
00:20:46.149 -->
00:20:56.214It was like not a safe space any way, shape or form, especially if you were a gay man.
00:20:56.214 -->
00:20:58.043It was very.
00:20:58.043 -->
00:21:02.449It was a little, because there's like that perception of like bi women.
00:21:02.449 -->
00:21:07.126Everyone's like oh yeah, you're making out with everybody, ooh, and so it's a little more acceptable.
00:21:07.126 -->
00:21:19.170But it was not a safe space and any means to be anything other than the norm.
00:21:19.170 -->
00:21:24.236And I'm very cautious when I do go home.
00:21:24.236 -->
00:21:31.212I think the last time I was home was maybe four years ago and it was uncomfortable.
00:21:31.212 -->
00:21:39.544It's such a small town like everybody knows everybody's business, and then you have someone walking around town.
00:21:39.544 -->
00:21:46.028That's different and it's yeah, it's just uncomfortable.
00:21:46.028 -->
00:21:50.330There's not a community in the town that I grew up in.
00:21:50.330 -->
00:21:51.571I can definitely say that.
00:21:51.571 -->
00:21:53.392Where are you now?
00:21:53.392 -->
00:21:56.493I live in Durham, north Carolina.
00:21:57.134 -->
00:22:02.737Okay when you got there, because I hear Durham has a pretty big LGBTQ plus community.
00:22:02.737 -->
00:22:04.597When you got there first, how did you feel?
00:22:06.000 -->
00:22:16.817I specifically moved here for the community because I was living in a smaller town that is a little bit south of here and it got to the point where I was like I gotta go.
00:22:16.817 -->
00:22:21.649It's been good for a couple of years but I need community, I need to find my people.
00:22:21.649 -->
00:22:25.703So I moved to Durham and I haven't been here that long.
00:22:25.703 -->
00:22:38.708So I'm still like trying to tap into the community, but like I've joined like a queer sports team and like trying to get out there and meet new people, which is a little hard for me anyways, just because I am a little introverted.
00:22:38.708 -->
00:22:44.408But so far everyone I've met has been insanely welcoming and just fantastic.
00:22:44.408 -->
00:22:50.051So it's leaps and bounds ahead of where I have lived in the past.
00:22:50.833 -->
00:22:51.734That's amazing.
00:22:53.141 -->
00:22:54.567So I want to go back.
00:22:54.567 -->
00:22:56.066You have three brothers and one sister.
00:22:56.066 -->
00:23:00.341Yes, okay in.
00:23:00.341 -->
00:23:00.763So I want to go back.
00:23:00.763 -->
00:23:01.766You have three brothers and one sister.
00:23:01.766 -->
00:23:02.007Uh, yes, okay.
00:23:02.007 -->
00:23:02.147So why?
00:23:02.147 -->
00:23:02.669What do you think it was?
00:23:02.669 -->
00:23:06.802Have you had this conversation with your mom and your sister about what was at this point?
00:23:06.802 -->
00:23:11.172It was just about you being bisexual, and not even your gender identity.
00:23:11.172 -->
00:23:15.490So do you have any idea what was difficult about that for them?
00:23:18.840 -->
00:23:19.260I have no idea.
00:23:19.260 -->
00:23:31.913The thing that sticks out to me, the thing I remember the most about that day, was my sister's reaction, Because she said and it's so stupid.
00:23:31.913 -->
00:23:37.913She said I hope you don't hit on me what.
00:23:37.913 -->
00:23:46.813And I was like you're my sister so not gonna happen, so there was.
00:23:46.932 -->
00:23:51.489It was just a really weird reaction, yeah were you worried that, your brother, they're gonna hit on you.
00:23:51.489 -->
00:23:52.475But why would you even?
00:23:52.495 -->
00:23:59.449I don't know yeah wouldn't even come from and I remember just sitting across the table for her and just being like what the fuck?
00:23:59.449 -->
00:24:09.501That makes no sense at all and just being like you're my sister and you're also not my type, so don't worry about it like the overwhelming.
00:24:10.063 -->
00:24:34.228Yeah, I was just like what is happening and I've had conversations with my mom where for her it's a lot of she just doesn't understand is what she says like she just doesn't understand and then in her mind, a lot of trans people specifically do it for the attention.
00:24:34.228 -->
00:24:36.012Oh, they're just trying to get attention.
00:24:36.012 -->
00:24:37.054It's all about attention.
00:24:37.054 -->
00:24:41.010They just want to rub it in people's faces and have it be attention.
00:24:41.010 -->
00:24:50.433And that's comments that she made before she knew that I was trans and I hang on to those because I was like this is what you said to me when you didn't know that I was trans.
00:24:50.740 -->
00:24:53.005So, do you think I'm doing that for attention?
00:24:53.005 -->
00:25:16.008But I will say that I am not brave enough to have those conversations with my mother, yeah, and I'm just don't know how much energy I want to extend on it, especially anything with like politics, yeah, and like gender stuff.
00:25:16.008 -->
00:25:30.343I'm just like I'm just gonna let that be and if one day I'm feeling real angsty and I got a lot of energy, I might start a conversation, but it's a lot yeah, it's not.
00:25:30.504 -->
00:25:38.387All I say is it's not for people to understand it, for people to respect other people, for people to understand and for people to respect other people's new, other people's lifestyle.
00:25:38.387 -->
00:25:39.431Everyone is different.
00:25:39.431 -->
00:25:43.649Because you're expecting me to understand your straight lifestyle.
00:25:43.649 -->
00:25:52.808We want to have children, want to be, not only have a straight lifestyle, but want to be, sometimes even if you stay in an abusive relationship.
00:25:52.808 -->
00:26:04.263Sometimes you're in a relationship with people that you know you don't even love, but you expect people to accept it or being even like even some of these pastors or something.
00:26:04.263 -->
00:26:08.093They're having extramarital affairs, but it's all.
00:26:08.093 -->
00:26:16.951And for you to understand is for you to respect that not everyone has the same, not everyone has the same lifestyle.
00:26:17.471 -->
00:26:18.354Yeah, and it's.
00:26:18.354 -->
00:26:41.071I'm going to use my younger sibling as another example, because my youngest brother is in a relationship where they have a very unique type of relationship, him and his partner and my mom doesn't get it and therefore it's wrong because it's not within the norm.
00:26:41.071 -->
00:26:45.412Like they have a very like loving, platonic relationship.
00:26:45.412 -->
00:27:00.725There's not a lot of like physicality between them and that works really well for them, but it's not what a man and a woman should be doing, like they should have a physical relationship and that's the normal, and so it doesn't make sense.
00:27:00.725 -->
00:27:06.975I think if it's anything outside of the quote unquote normal, it blows my mom's mind and she's just like I don't get it.
00:27:08.301 -->
00:27:08.783It should be.
00:27:08.783 -->
00:27:15.633I'm sorry, exactly what goes on in the confines of people's bedrooms.
00:27:16.160 -->
00:27:29.230it's not for-'s business exactly and especially relatives, because I don't ask you what y'all are doing in the bedroom, so it's exactly be wondering about what's going on in my bedroom.
00:27:29.230 -->
00:27:40.241All that, yeah, matter is that I'm with someone who respects me and loves me and we have a solid, healthy relationship, whatever that means for us.
00:27:40.241 -->
00:27:41.768That's all that should matter.
00:27:41.768 -->
00:27:51.693And it's fine to be curious about things, just to inform yourself, just because you want to know, but in judging it, that's not okay exactly, exactly.
00:27:51.714 -->
00:28:12.548And I've had more conversations about my brother's relationship with my mother, trying to explain everything to her, than I have about my own identity, because I don't know, I'm like he's my younger brother, like he's in this wonderful relationship that works so well for him and I'm like just let it be, yeah, weird.
00:28:13.341 -->
00:28:23.246Yeah, exactly, I'm interested in your journey from being bisexual to being pansexual, what most people know what pansexual is.
00:28:23.246 -->
00:28:33.132But, like just in case we have a new listener, somebody just a baby gay just delving into being what is pansexual pansexual.
00:28:33.692 -->
00:28:45.125Is that you are pansexual, is that you are interested let me know if I like define this correctly but interested in pretty much anyone, no matter the gender, or?
00:28:45.125 -->
00:28:46.187Yeah?
00:28:46.488 -->
00:28:53.710so I think that's how I define it yeah, I, I wish I could remember the quote, but I used.
00:28:53.710 -->
00:29:09.207I love schitt's creed and I think it was david's character was trying to explain to he presents as very queer, he was still in the heat's gay, but then he liked this female character and they actually did have sex.
00:29:09.207 -->
00:29:26.689Actually she was so confused the next day and she and they were shopping I think they were going for wine with the wine, yes, and he said oh, sometimes she was using the wine as a metaphor and he said she said I assumed you only liked red wine, but now I guess maybe you like white wine.
00:29:26.689 -->
00:29:28.153And he's all time I did it.
00:29:28.153 -->
00:29:30.910I care what it was, I have to go back and watch it.
00:29:30.910 -->
00:29:35.468But essentially he said it's what's inside, yeah, the taste of the wine.
00:29:35.468 -->
00:29:47.969I don't care about the, whether it's red, white, whether it's a chardonnay or a Shiraz or whatever, what the shape of the bottle is, whatever I, just if it tastes good to me, then it just tastes good to me exactly sentiment.
00:29:48.068 -->
00:29:53.951So yeah, that is spot on yes, that's how I would assign pansexuals question.
00:29:53.951 -->
00:29:58.391Did you say, did you actually feel like you were bi?
00:29:58.391 -->
00:30:09.529You felt like you liked, and bi in a sense of I like men and women as a pretty, in a traditional sense of male and female.
00:30:09.529 -->
00:30:12.326Did you actually feel like that?
00:30:12.326 -->
00:30:13.450You liked both.
00:30:13.450 -->
00:30:25.374Or did you somehow have some experience with someone who was more gender fluid and realized that you, you know, it was more than just the binary right?
00:30:26.616 -->
00:30:28.941oh man, another great question.
00:30:28.941 -->
00:30:43.057I'm trying to think back to the time and I definitely, when I was identifying as bisexual, I had only the binary to reference Reference, Thank you.
00:30:43.420 -->
00:30:45.027I was like what word do I want to use here?
00:30:45.027 -->
00:30:53.016And then it's funny because I was living in a place that was not queer friendly in any way, shape or form.
00:30:53.016 -->
00:30:54.647I was in Southern Mississippi.
00:30:54.647 -->
00:31:05.827It was like like not good and I had a lot of, but I look like how I look now.
00:31:05.827 -->
00:31:13.789I had short hair and like piercings and tattoos and I'd go into bars and people come up to me and be like you must be an aging lesbian.
00:31:13.789 -->
00:31:16.645They thought how I looked and I would be like this is what it takes.
00:31:16.645 -->
00:31:17.528You got me.
00:31:17.528 -->
00:31:23.668If we're going solely on looks, then sure, and it was just like a weird place.
00:31:23.668 -->
00:31:46.430But that was when I was like yeah, I think I'm pansexual and I don't know if it was a person or just realizing that I didn't care if someone was trans or gender fluid or something outside of the binary.
00:31:46.430 -->
00:31:53.182And I remember we were at this bar with my coworkers and I was just finally like I'm a bad sexual geek?
00:31:53.923 -->
00:31:54.203It's not.
00:31:54.203 -->
00:31:56.817They were like cool.
00:31:56.836 -->
00:31:57.179Party.
00:31:57.490 -->
00:31:59.438Yeah, that's fine, no, no, no, I'm dirty.
00:31:59.438 -->
00:32:03.352Oh, like cool already.
00:32:03.352 -->
00:32:04.394Yeah, that's fine, no, no, I'm not going to.
00:32:04.394 -->
00:32:19.138I've had some really bad experiences with like co-workers and people I've lived with like not taking things well and I'm always like I'm going to get to know people for two years, two or three years before I like share any type of information about myself, especially if I'm working with them.
00:32:19.138 -->
00:32:32.364And that was about the two and a half or three year mark when I was finally like okay, guys, this is who I really am, this is what's up, and they were all like, yeah, look, we know I'm like okay, so we're all on the same page.
00:32:32.590 -->
00:32:41.221But yeah, I don't think there was a specific person or experience though that that influenced that.
00:32:41.221 -->
00:32:43.446Okay, just who you are.
00:32:43.446 -->
00:32:49.108Yeah, I think it goes back to what I was saying about having the right vocabulary.
00:32:49.108 -->
00:33:13.411I think during that time, like as more definitions, I guess, have become more accessible and I've been able to research and learn more, I'm like, oh, this fits better, this makes more sense to me than what I was previously defining myself as or whatever.
00:33:13.411 -->
00:33:28.584So, as time has moved on and like, more definitions have come out or become more I want to say normal, but like in the conversation, in the vocabulary, more I've been able to really, like, define myself.
00:33:29.851 -->
00:33:30.452Have you.
00:33:30.452 -->
00:33:31.537It sounds like you.
00:33:31.537 -->
00:33:36.592It's great that you have a community of friends that are open and accepting.
00:33:36.592 -->
00:33:42.423Have you had any difficulties communicating that to intimate partners?
00:33:44.570 -->
00:33:53.418Yes, especially when I'm just first getting to know people, it's I'm.
00:33:53.418 -->
00:34:06.854If it's a male partner, that can be an interesting conversation.
00:34:06.854 -->
00:34:12.652I've had some really great conversations where it's just us talking about, okay, like, what are your preferences?
00:34:12.652 -->
00:34:28.317These are mine, I, this is how I identify, just being open about it, and I've been lucky in that a lot of the individuals that I have had relationships with have been very open with it and, yeah, it's been interesting.
00:34:31.581 -->
00:34:38.420Okay, yeah, unfortunately there are still some biases within the community.
00:34:38.420 -->
00:34:43.880Yes, so sometimes people have a hard time.
00:34:43.880 -->
00:35:08.509I'll say this as a whole the community may be pretty accepting, but your individual biases come in when you're actually in relation with someone, and so sometimes it's hard for people to accept or understand people who aren't strictly gay or strictly lesbian.
00:35:08.748 -->
00:35:20.579We don't have a preference for one specific gender type yeah understand, and it's hard for them to feel secure with that because they just they.
00:35:20.579 -->
00:35:22.043But people like to know what to expect.
00:35:22.043 -->
00:35:29.896And if you like a lot of different, if you just, if you're really in it for the spirit, then you could like anybody, and so I don't know who.
00:35:29.976 -->
00:35:50.649I'm comfortable with you being around because you might like them too, it's been an interesting experience going like out to like clubs or bars or whatever, because in the day I presented very feminine, like I had really long hair, I still had breasts, like I was very feminine.
00:35:50.649 -->
00:35:59.177And since I've started my transition I always I feel like I'm somewhere in between, which is what I want.
00:35:59.177 -->
00:36:07.606Like I want to be just like androgynous and, yeah, just somewhere in the middle.
00:36:07.606 -->
00:36:16.605But where that causes issues is I think it confuses a lot of people, especially folks that don't know me.
00:36:16.605 -->
00:36:40.938If I'm out at a club, some women might be like, oh, that's a man, and some women might be like, oh, that's a man, and some men might be like, oh, that's a woman, and so in the end nobody approaches me so you have to do a lot of the in the approaches, okay, and that's hard for me, because I'm like very timid and I'm super awkward, so I'm like, hey, hello, can we have?
00:36:40.978 -->
00:36:42.619your sim.
00:36:42.639 -->
00:36:52.667So it has led to a lot of very awkward experiences, but I'm just like this is fine, it is fine, it'll all work out.
00:36:52.667 -->
00:37:15.096So it's definitely been really interesting since having top surgery because that was really I used to have quite big breasts and so not having those, to announce to everyone that I am female, has been wonderful, but has also been like a very interesting experience so arden your your book.
00:37:15.216 -->
00:37:26.161It sounds like they are mostly about this their suspense novels that happen to have characters who are queer.
00:37:26.161 -->
00:37:32.961Is that the way you would count it, or do you actually really explore your issues in any of the novels?
00:37:34.330 -->
00:37:36.799Oh, another great question.
00:37:36.799 -->
00:37:57.823I would say it's probably about 50-50, because I wanted to touch on some queer issues, like Hannah's father is very against her being a lesbian and has disowned her, and so there's some of that in the prequel, not so much in the main three books.
00:37:57.823 -->
00:38:06.658And then in book three, james, who is our, looks like a what is that that saying?
00:38:06.658 -->
00:38:15.230Looks like a cinnamon roll, is a cinnamon roll like he, but is he's the opposite like he looks like he could kill you, but he is a cinnamon roll like.
00:38:15.230 -->
00:38:16.292He's like this kind of.
00:38:16.292 -->
00:38:25.792He's gone through a lot of trauma and his spoiler alert his partner dies and he's had a lot.
00:38:25.792 -->
00:38:31.195He was in the military and his team just owned him when they found out that he was gay, and so there's a lot of trauma there.
00:38:31.195 -->
00:38:34.326But I just I work it into the story.
00:38:34.326 -->
00:38:36.916Okay and yeah, like I said, I think probably like 50-50-ish.
00:38:36.916 -->
00:38:39.286Okay and yeah, like I said, I think probably like 50-50-ish.
00:38:40.069 -->
00:38:45.402Okay, and so what's next for you in writing?
00:38:45.402 -->
00:38:49.712Do you plan to stay among the same trajectory?
00:38:49.712 -->
00:38:55.335Do you plan to delve a little bit more into sexuality and relationships, or what are you thinking?
00:38:57.150 -->
00:39:08.134Oh, I'm working on a queer queer, the definition could be like so long, but essentially it's a queer poly romanticy.
00:39:08.134 -->
00:39:13.823There's a romantic fantasy with poly relationship, with ruin magic.
00:39:13.823 -->
00:39:22.673So essentially they have to like carve ruins into their skin to wield their magic and they are fated to have someone as their partner.
00:39:22.673 -->
00:39:27.769But what they don't know is that they can be fated to have multiple partners.
00:39:27.769 -->
00:39:41.039So exploring that poly relationship, partnership side of things as well in that book, which I'm insanely excited to explore, so it should be a good one okay, wait.
00:39:41.800 -->
00:39:46.038So pansexual doesn't net doesn't mean poly.
00:39:46.038 -->
00:39:47.542So how do you know about this?
00:39:47.542 -->
00:39:48.885Are you also poly?
00:39:48.885 -->
00:39:53.856Be a friend, poly I'm all about that poly lifestyle.
00:39:53.876 -->
00:39:58.265Okay, I would say that being in a poly relationship is like a goal for me.
00:39:58.265 -->
00:40:07.779Being a part of a polycule like, yes, I, I want that is my ideal relationship structure.
00:40:07.779 -->
00:40:11.744Okay, because I do, I have, I have.
00:40:11.744 -->
00:40:13.090How do I say this?
00:40:13.090 -->
00:40:38.498I enjoy being in like platonic close relationships and occasionally intimate relationships, but I really just love to have the closeness, and so I think polycules and poly relationships are ideally suited for someone like me, where you have that like closeness but you're not solely responsible for the well-being of that other person.
00:40:38.498 -->
00:40:40.906The well-being of that other person, emotional well-being of that other person.
00:40:40.906 -->
00:40:44.620You're sharing the relationships.
00:40:44.620 -->
00:40:46.777So that's how I see that.
00:40:48.071 -->
00:40:50.219But that sounds like friendships to me.
00:40:51.690 -->
00:40:52.674Yeah, in some ways.
00:40:52.674 -->
00:40:59.297Yeah, it's a fine line.
00:40:59.297 -->
00:41:00.219I would say.
00:41:01.419 -->
00:41:03.242Okay, yeah, I have friends.
00:41:03.242 -->
00:41:09.722I have multiple friends and personalities of your friends and what they're good at.
00:41:09.722 -->
00:41:14.072You know what, what I had to, what they're good for, but essentially that is that.
00:41:14.072 -->
00:41:14.875So I may have I.
00:41:14.875 -->
00:41:19.321I have close and non-physical intimate relationships with these friends.
00:41:19.321 -->
00:41:20.744We're all really good friends.
00:41:20.744 -->
00:41:29.102We love each other and I can go to this friend for these types of conversations and this friend to go out.
00:41:29.102 -->
00:41:34.138I know that this other friend is not going out, they'd rather come and hang and watch TV.
00:41:34.138 -->
00:41:36.597You have different interactions with different people.
00:41:36.850 -->
00:41:38.188But you're not sleeping with them.
00:41:38.409 -->
00:41:39.454But that's what they said.
00:41:39.454 -->
00:41:40.812They said some of those are not.
00:41:40.812 -->
00:41:46.632Well, that's what relationships that are yeah, some, but others yes.
00:41:46.653 -->
00:41:54.255That's why I think like a polycule could be a good, a good match yeah, I didn't the first time I'm hearing that word, polycule yeah, I'm, I'm.
00:41:54.255 -->
00:41:58.283It's a newer one for me, but it's, yeah, that it's uh.
00:41:58.283 -->
00:42:07.618You have your little polycules that come together and you have your little poly family okay, all right, very interesting.
00:42:08.139 -->
00:42:15.336And so what attracts you to this lifestyle is is it this is what I heard?
00:42:15.336 -->
00:42:27.875I mean it could be wrong, but is it one not having full responsibility for the well, emotional, well-being of one person entirely on you?
00:42:27.875 -->
00:42:41.529And also, have not you not having to rely on just one person for and that support having being able to fill your cup with in multiple places, physically and emotionally?
00:42:42.330 -->
00:42:46.759yeah, and I think it's about finding I like to use the term your want match.
00:42:46.759 -->
00:43:00.001So I have wants, they have wants, and so it's finding that person who meets that want that is maybe not met by someone else in the group.
00:43:00.001 -->
00:43:10.742Let's say, partner X really enjoys hiking but none of the other individuals do I enjoy hiking, so I can be a want match for that partner.
00:43:10.742 -->
00:43:18.196It's like what you were saying with friendships, right, like you each have a role, or like different things that you bring to the partnership.
00:43:18.538 -->
00:43:29.177I find that really comforting To know that like I really enjoy this probably sounds silly, but like I really enjoy holding hands.
00:43:29.177 -->
00:43:32.579Maybe one partner does and doesn't, the rest don't.
00:43:32.579 -->
00:43:41.918Like I know I could go to that partner and just be like, hey, can we like hold hands and like cuddle for a bit or have that Like that moment together.
00:43:41.918 -->
00:43:45.797I know that that's they're meeting my want and I'm meeting theirs.
00:43:45.797 -->
00:43:47.461Maybe they really love to cuddle.
00:43:47.461 -->
00:44:14.433So it's building that kind of yeah, that group or that community, that where we're all like working together to meet each other's wants interesting, very interesting okay all right, so the next book you're gonna, or may, theories, novels, are going to delve into that there is.
00:44:15.074 -->
00:44:16.556So where can we find your books?
00:44:17.998 -->
00:44:31.757You can get them on my website, which is ardencootscom, that's A-R-D-E-N-C-O-U-T-T-S dot com, and you can also get them on Amazon.
00:44:31.757 -->
00:44:37.480But if you're into supporting indie authors, definitely get them off my website.
00:44:38.682 -->
00:44:39.183Sounds good.
00:44:39.183 -->
00:44:41.792All right, ar good, all right, arden.
00:44:41.792 -->
00:44:49.618This was a very interesting conversation and I'm sure the listeners cannot wait to get their hands on some of your materials.
00:44:49.618 -->
00:44:53.679Likewise myself, I have learned a lot from this conversation.
00:44:53.679 -->
00:44:55.635So, listeners, there you have it.
00:44:55.635 -->
00:45:08.100Arden Kootz is a transmasc, non-binary individual and a queer suspect romantic novel creator helping members of the queer community with self-discovery.
00:45:08.100 -->
00:45:15.390Thank you, arden, for being on A Queer Understanding and we just cannot wait to get our hands on your content.
00:45:15.390 -->
00:45:16.751Thank you so much.
00:45:17.551 -->
00:45:19.533Thank you, this has been wonderful.
00:45:20.273 -->
00:45:20.734Thank you.
