00:00:09
Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of Couch Talks on You Need Therapy Podcast. My name is Kat and I am the host. And if you are wondering what couch Talks is, it is the special bonus episode of You Need Therapy Podcast that comes out every single Wednesday, where I answer questions that you guys send into me and you can send those two Katherine at you Need Therapy podcast dot com. Now, before we get into the question today, I want to remind everybody as always that although I'm a therapist and I'm answering questions, I'm giving some feedback. This podcast does not serve as a replacement or substitute for actual mental health services. So if you are new again, this is where I answer questions that you guys send in and I try to do one a week. Sometimes I do two if I'm doing smaller, quicker ones, but usually it's one a week. We always keep them, and today we have a good one, so let's get right into it. Hey, Kat, I recently reconnected with my cousins on my dad's side of the family, and I have received a letter in the mail from the oldest about how my soul is doomed if I cannot become vegan by January twenty eighth. He follows the teachings of some master guru who owns a bunch of vegan chain restaurants around the US. The letter was alarming, especially since he outlined why he wasn't in a cult. My family is labeling him as a wacko. But I can clearly see how alarming this is. I want to reach out. I don't want him isolated from the family even further. Not really sure what to do PS I feel like all my cult education should have prepared me for this moment. Okay, so I actually contacted this person. I got a little bit more information about what was going on, and okay, so if you are a avid follower of the podcast, you know that last year I went on a deep dive into cults and I have a full episode about brainwashing and the power of cults if anyone is interested in learning more about that. In general, I also highly recommend the book Cultish, which is about the language of cults and talks about what makes a cult to cult and what makes a cult dangerous. I think a lot of us think that cults are bad because we know them to have harmed a lot of vulnerable people, and a lot of cults are bad. I think a lot of things can also be labeled and can fit into the cult category that aren't bad and can be helpful. We're all part of cult e type situations regardless. When we hear the word cult, it comes with a really negative connotation. And I think this letter was really scary for somebody to read, and it felt like the person was out of touch with reality for some reason or another that used to be in touch with reality. Now, this question is not really about cults in general, so I wanted to start with that. It's more about how do I respond to this letter from a family member who seems to maybe be in a cult. I think a very common reaction from people towards those who may be in these kinds of groups, whether that's a cult or just a group that feels very strange and out of touch of reality, or in this case, a group that feels very strict, like this person's saying, your soul's doomed if you can't be vegan. I think a very common reaction from receiving information from somebody in one of those groups is to say that they are crazy or they've lost their mind, and then to stay away, which I'm not saying is wrong. We're just going to talk about that. I think it's really really important here to mention that often when somebody's behavior is being called crazy or wacky or psychotic, it's because their behavior is crazy or wacky or psychotic. But those terms are used in this very judge, mental and damaging way rather than helpful and descriptive. Calling somebody psychotic and dismissing them is not helpful. But if we actually pay attention to what does somebody being psychotic mean? Because if we're calling somebody psychotic and they are, and then we're dismissing them, we are ignoring a mental health crisis. Calling somebody psychotic isn't supposed to be a slur. It's a descriptive word used to identify symptoms of a mental health diagnosis. Those who are having psychotic breaks or somebody who's experiencing psychosis delusions, they very much just look like they're going mad. They're out of touch with reality. So this letter sounds like the person who wrote it is a little out of touch with reality. Saying that you were going to die and your soul is going to be doomed if you do not become a vegan. Is something that feels very out of touch with reality, but to this person it feels very true. So that person, if they are experiencing a mental health crisis, that person's not going to get any better just by somebody being and like you're crazy and then turning in the other cheek. It doesn't mean you have to get involved. That's not what I'm saying at all. But when we call people crazy and then we just ignore them when like really, actually maybe they are having psychotic features and that's not so much there's something like inherently wrong with them. It's there's something going on with their mind. There is an illness in their mind, and mental illness like I just it's I even get tongue tied, as you can tell talking about it. Because mental illness is a thing. We have a sickness in our brain, just like physical illness is a thing. There is a sickness, there is something in our physical body. And it is so hard for people to wrap their brains around our own brains or on the fact that when somebody is acting out of touch with reality, if their brain is not working correctly, maybe there is something going on with their brain. To me, I'm like trying to think of a way to compare it.
00:05:54
Speaker 2: To a physical illness. It's almost like if somebody is.
00:05:56
Speaker 1: Having a seizure and we just ignore it, we're like, oh, that person's seizure weird, when that might be signaling that they have some other illness happening in their body. There's something going on, they have epilepsy or some other health condition. If somebody has a fever, that is signaling that they have a physical illness. Like that, those are symptoms of an illness, and so are psychotic features and delusions and things like that. Those are symptoms of actual illnesses. But the illnesses in our mind not like our immune system. Although I will say physical illness, mental health, all of that actually is tied up and connected to our immune system. But that's a conversation for another day. Now. When it comes to this situation, I don't know if that's actually going on. I'm not diagnosing this person with any kind of illness because I don't know them and I don't have enough information, and also that's not what I do on this podcast. But I think it warrants concern based on what I have seen, what I have read, and again, like I said, I was able to read this letter and what this person that wrote in is reference seeing the actual letter they received is very alarming from my perspective as well. And who knows. There could be a million things that are going on. They could be blackmailed to be sending these letters from somebody, They could be being controlled by somebody, or being threatened in some other way. There's a lot of things that could be going on other than them just being, for a lack of a better way to describe this, in quotes a wacko and they're just being their weird selves.
00:07:23
Speaker 2: Because if we think about the term.
00:07:25
Speaker 1: Weird, I just have to say this for a second, but we think about that when we call somebody weird, that mean they're different than us. It's very different for me to say, oh, that person's weird, when yeah, that might be judgmental, but maybe they just like possibly dress in a way that I don't prefer to dress, or they like a type of music that I think is not great. Like, there is a very large spectrum of being weird, and we can use a lot of words like crazy and wacky, and whatever to describe a lot of things that are actually very different. So somebody being a wacko, I might say that because they like to put I don't know why this is coming to my head, but they like to put jelly on every single thing that they eat, I might be like, they're wacky. That doesn't mean they're having a psychotic break. But I also can use that same term to describe somebody who is having a psychotic break. And so I think it's very important to be intentional and aware of the differences because this type of weird behavior warrants a definite concern. Versus, if somebody likes to put jelly on everything they eat, I think that they're okay for the most part, unless there's other things that are also going on as well. But if that's the only thing they're doing that is out of the ordinary, then I don't think we need to do a well for a check or anything now, because we don't have enough information to identify what's going on here, and regardless, we don't have control over anyone other than ourselves. Little reminder, I think what I would encourage somebody in this situation to do is to ask what response feels congruent with their moral compass and reality. So I say reality because we may want to save somebody or we might want to fix something, but realistically we have to look at how little power we actually have over other people's lives, although we can make a difference by our behaviors at times. So I might start with looking at what I want to do here and what I actually can do.
00:09:20
Speaker 2: I might want to save somebody, but what can I do?
00:09:24
Speaker 1: I can express concern, and so again look at what would fit within your moral compass and your values. Does it feel in line with me to ignore and just protect myself? Does it feel in line with me to cause behavior crazy and make fun of him? Does it feel in line with me to respond to the letter sharing my feelings or thoughts. Does it feel in line with me to set a boundary and cut off communication with this person? So looking at what I want to do, look at what I actually can do, while looking at what feels in line with my moral compass. I think that there are a lot of options that you can do in this specific situations, and they aren't all right, they aren't all wrong. Some of them are going to be better suited with you than others. You mentioned that you don't want this person isolated from the family even further, which I really appreciate because I think this person is really thinking about this at a deeper level than a lot of people might think about this, just because it's easier just to be like, like I said, you're crazy. Bye. So you said you don't want this person to be isolated from the family even further. Is there a way for you to keep in contact with him that does not feel like it then puts you or your family or anybody in your life at risk, because sometimes also if there is a mental health crisis going on, there could be some danger involved as well, and so you might not want to put yourself in the line of fire.
00:10:43
Speaker 2: But there are people that are trained and they do this for a living.
00:10:47
Speaker 1: So I am not a firefighter, so I probably am not going to, for the most part, run into a burning building to try to put out a fire that has taken over a home. But I might call it the fire department to come help me do that. So is there a way for you to express that you care? Is there a way for you to express concern for him.
00:11:05
Speaker 2: That feels safe to you?
00:11:06
Speaker 1: If that's what you come down to, if it comes down to I want to express some kind of concern for this person, is there a way for you to do that that would be safe and could be the most powerful in the little power that we have. Personally, if I got a letter like this from a friend or a family member, I would reach out to the people closest to them to check in, to express concern, to ask if there's something that you need to know, or maybe to give information that the people around them might not know. That is what I would do. You can't tell them you're experiencing delusions in psychosis from a distance, right, They're not going to be able to receive that because those things are very real to them. Now take that with a grain of salt. This is not for everybody, but generally, when somebody is going through something that is their reality, they are out of touch with reality. So when you tell them that, that doesn't really make very much sense. Just like if I tell you that you're crazy and you're not crazy, you're to be like, I'm not crazy. Well, if you tell somebody who's crazy, And again when I say crazy, I mean how we sometimes can perceive somebody who's experiensing psychosis if we just tell them that, they're going to be like, no, I'm not because that is their reality, which is a confusing hard thing to sometimes just say. I don't know if that even made sense when I said it, but I hope.
00:12:19
Speaker 2: That it did.
00:12:21
Speaker 1: And so is there a way for you to express concern to the people closest to that person? Lastly, what I would say if you really are concerned, and this is for anybody ever, if you're concerned for somebody's immediate danger and well being, you can issue a welfare check and you don't have to be a mental health professional of any kind to do that. I would google how to do that in your area, because it's going to be different depending on where you live. But I can just google a welfare check that would send a trained professional, whether that it's a police officer that has been through crisis training or a crisis worker or something like that, to check on the person that I'm concerned about to see if they are in danger or not. So you can do that, it's not going to cost you anything. A lot of times I feel like the reason people don't do that is they're afraid that the person's going to get mad. At them, And what I can tell you is one, they're anonymous, and two, I think if you weigh the options here, somebody being mad at me versus I'm concerned for somebody's safety, that's going to trump that because if their safety is in danger in the long run, that is the most important thing versus somebody being upset with you over being concerned with them. So that's something that you can do.
00:13:29
Speaker 2: Now.
00:13:30
Speaker 1: As I kind of close this out, I know that this question was super specific and more specific than some what I want people to hear, and kind of what I'm saying are two things or a couple things.
00:13:42
Speaker 2: One, if we're.
00:13:43
Speaker 1: Seeing symptoms of something rather than throwing that off and just ignoring it and laughing it off or throwing judgment. And this can be with anything. Think about how people view symptoms of drug abuse or eating disorders. It's like, oh, they're just doing drugs and they're just doing this and they're blah blah blah, and we like label them as bad people.
00:14:06
Speaker 2: And I'm like, well, maybe the reason.
00:14:08
Speaker 1: That they are stealing drugs from the neighbor might be because they have an addiction and that's a mental health disorder, not an indication that this person is inherently bad or wrong, and there also is a solution and there is help. So if I'm concerned about somebody's behavior, first of all, why am I concerned about it? I'm concerned about somebody's behavior if it feels like they're doing something that's dangerous or wrong. Rather than just writing them off as bad people, what would happen if we started instead looking at people as inherently good and noticing the behaviors that don't fit with that, and looking at those as symptoms of a problem that is not the person. You know, the problem is the problem. The problem isn't the person. So I want people to hear that. And then the other thing I want people to hear is there are ways to express care and help that aren't always direct reaching out to somebody. And again, we have to look at what are our main concerns making sure somebody isn't mad at us? Right, it's a little codependency coming out or taking care of people's immediate life threatening needs. So that's going to do it for me today. I hope that you guys as always get something out of these short little conversations. And of course, if you have any questions that you want to send in, any feedback, anything, you can send that to Katherine at you Need Therapy podcast dot com. I hope you guys have the day you need to have and I will be back with you on Monday for another episode of You Need Therapy. If you want to follow us, you can do that on Instagram at you Need Therapy at kat van Buren
Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of Couch Talks on You Need Therapy Podcast. My name is Kat and I am the host. And if you are wondering what couch Talks is, it is the special bonus episode of You Need Therapy Podcast that comes out every single Wednesday, where I answer questions that you guys send into me and you can send those two Katherine at you Need Therapy podcast dot com. Now, before we get into the question today, I want to remind everybody as always that although I'm a therapist and I'm answering questions, I'm giving some feedback. This podcast does not serve as a replacement or substitute for actual mental health services. So if you are new again, this is where I answer questions that you guys send in and I try to do one a week. Sometimes I do two if I'm doing smaller, quicker ones, but usually it's one a week. We always keep them, and today we have a good one, so let's get right into it. Hey, Kat, I recently reconnected with my cousins on my dad's side of the family, and I have received a letter in the mail from the oldest about how my soul is doomed if I cannot become vegan by January twenty eighth. He follows the teachings of some master guru who owns a bunch of vegan chain restaurants around the US. The letter was alarming, especially since he outlined why he wasn't in a cult. My family is labeling him as a wacko. But I can clearly see how alarming this is. I want to reach out. I don't want him isolated from the family even further. Not really sure what to do PS I feel like all my cult education should have prepared me for this moment. Okay, so I actually contacted this person. I got a little bit more information about what was going on, and okay, so if you are a avid follower of the podcast, you know that last year I went on a deep dive into cults and I have a full episode about brainwashing and the power of cults if anyone is interested in learning more about that. In general, I also highly recommend the book Cultish, which is about the language of cults and talks about what makes a cult to cult and what makes a cult dangerous. I think a lot of us think that cults are bad because we know them to have harmed a lot of vulnerable people, and a lot of cults are bad. I think a lot of things can also be labeled and can fit into the cult category that aren't bad and can be helpful. We're all part of cult e type situations regardless. When we hear the word cult, it comes with a really negative connotation. And I think this letter was really scary for somebody to read, and it felt like the person was out of touch with reality for some reason or another that used to be in touch with reality. Now, this question is not really about cults in general, so I wanted to start with that. It's more about how do I respond to this letter from a family member who seems to maybe be in a cult. I think a very common reaction from people towards those who may be in these kinds of groups, whether that's a cult or just a group that feels very strange and out of touch of reality, or in this case, a group that feels very strict, like this person's saying, your soul's doomed if you can't be vegan. I think a very common reaction from receiving information from somebody in one of those groups is to say that they are crazy or they've lost their mind, and then to stay away, which I'm not saying is wrong. We're just going to talk about that. I think it's really really important here to mention that often when somebody's behavior is being called crazy or wacky or psychotic, it's because their behavior is crazy or wacky or psychotic. But those terms are used in this very judge, mental and damaging way rather than helpful and descriptive. Calling somebody psychotic and dismissing them is not helpful. But if we actually pay attention to what does somebody being psychotic mean? Because if we're calling somebody psychotic and they are, and then we're dismissing them, we are ignoring a mental health crisis. Calling somebody psychotic isn't supposed to be a slur. It's a descriptive word used to identify symptoms of a mental health diagnosis. Those who are having psychotic breaks or somebody who's experiencing psychosis delusions, they very much just look like they're going mad. They're out of touch with reality. So this letter sounds like the person who wrote it is a little out of touch with reality. Saying that you were going to die and your soul is going to be doomed if you do not become a vegan. Is something that feels very out of touch with reality, but to this person it feels very true. So that person, if they are experiencing a mental health crisis, that person's not going to get any better just by somebody being and like you're crazy and then turning in the other cheek. It doesn't mean you have to get involved. That's not what I'm saying at all. But when we call people crazy and then we just ignore them when like really, actually maybe they are having psychotic features and that's not so much there's something like inherently wrong with them. It's there's something going on with their mind. There is an illness in their mind, and mental illness like I just it's I even get tongue tied, as you can tell talking about it. Because mental illness is a thing. We have a sickness in our brain, just like physical illness is a thing. There is a sickness, there is something in our physical body. And it is so hard for people to wrap their brains around our own brains or on the fact that when somebody is acting out of touch with reality, if their brain is not working correctly, maybe there is something going on with their brain. To me, I'm like trying to think of a way to compare it.
00:05:54
Speaker 2: To a physical illness. It's almost like if somebody is.
00:05:56
Speaker 1: Having a seizure and we just ignore it, we're like, oh, that person's seizure weird, when that might be signaling that they have some other illness happening in their body. There's something going on, they have epilepsy or some other health condition. If somebody has a fever, that is signaling that they have a physical illness. Like that, those are symptoms of an illness, and so are psychotic features and delusions and things like that. Those are symptoms of actual illnesses. But the illnesses in our mind not like our immune system. Although I will say physical illness, mental health, all of that actually is tied up and connected to our immune system. But that's a conversation for another day. Now. When it comes to this situation, I don't know if that's actually going on. I'm not diagnosing this person with any kind of illness because I don't know them and I don't have enough information, and also that's not what I do on this podcast. But I think it warrants concern based on what I have seen, what I have read, and again, like I said, I was able to read this letter and what this person that wrote in is reference seeing the actual letter they received is very alarming from my perspective as well. And who knows. There could be a million things that are going on. They could be blackmailed to be sending these letters from somebody, They could be being controlled by somebody, or being threatened in some other way. There's a lot of things that could be going on other than them just being, for a lack of a better way to describe this, in quotes a wacko and they're just being their weird selves.
00:07:23
Speaker 2: Because if we think about the term.
00:07:25
Speaker 1: Weird, I just have to say this for a second, but we think about that when we call somebody weird, that mean they're different than us. It's very different for me to say, oh, that person's weird, when yeah, that might be judgmental, but maybe they just like possibly dress in a way that I don't prefer to dress, or they like a type of music that I think is not great. Like, there is a very large spectrum of being weird, and we can use a lot of words like crazy and wacky, and whatever to describe a lot of things that are actually very different. So somebody being a wacko, I might say that because they like to put I don't know why this is coming to my head, but they like to put jelly on every single thing that they eat, I might be like, they're wacky. That doesn't mean they're having a psychotic break. But I also can use that same term to describe somebody who is having a psychotic break. And so I think it's very important to be intentional and aware of the differences because this type of weird behavior warrants a definite concern. Versus, if somebody likes to put jelly on everything they eat, I think that they're okay for the most part, unless there's other things that are also going on as well. But if that's the only thing they're doing that is out of the ordinary, then I don't think we need to do a well for a check or anything now, because we don't have enough information to identify what's going on here, and regardless, we don't have control over anyone other than ourselves. Little reminder, I think what I would encourage somebody in this situation to do is to ask what response feels congruent with their moral compass and reality. So I say reality because we may want to save somebody or we might want to fix something, but realistically we have to look at how little power we actually have over other people's lives, although we can make a difference by our behaviors at times. So I might start with looking at what I want to do here and what I actually can do.
00:09:20
Speaker 2: I might want to save somebody, but what can I do?
00:09:24
Speaker 1: I can express concern, and so again look at what would fit within your moral compass and your values. Does it feel in line with me to ignore and just protect myself? Does it feel in line with me to cause behavior crazy and make fun of him? Does it feel in line with me to respond to the letter sharing my feelings or thoughts. Does it feel in line with me to set a boundary and cut off communication with this person? So looking at what I want to do, look at what I actually can do, while looking at what feels in line with my moral compass. I think that there are a lot of options that you can do in this specific situations, and they aren't all right, they aren't all wrong. Some of them are going to be better suited with you than others. You mentioned that you don't want this person isolated from the family even further, which I really appreciate because I think this person is really thinking about this at a deeper level than a lot of people might think about this, just because it's easier just to be like, like I said, you're crazy. Bye. So you said you don't want this person to be isolated from the family even further. Is there a way for you to keep in contact with him that does not feel like it then puts you or your family or anybody in your life at risk, because sometimes also if there is a mental health crisis going on, there could be some danger involved as well, and so you might not want to put yourself in the line of fire.
00:10:43
Speaker 2: But there are people that are trained and they do this for a living.
00:10:47
Speaker 1: So I am not a firefighter, so I probably am not going to, for the most part, run into a burning building to try to put out a fire that has taken over a home. But I might call it the fire department to come help me do that. So is there a way for you to express that you care? Is there a way for you to express concern for him.
00:11:05
Speaker 2: That feels safe to you?
00:11:06
Speaker 1: If that's what you come down to, if it comes down to I want to express some kind of concern for this person, is there a way for you to do that that would be safe and could be the most powerful in the little power that we have. Personally, if I got a letter like this from a friend or a family member, I would reach out to the people closest to them to check in, to express concern, to ask if there's something that you need to know, or maybe to give information that the people around them might not know. That is what I would do. You can't tell them you're experiencing delusions in psychosis from a distance, right, They're not going to be able to receive that because those things are very real to them. Now take that with a grain of salt. This is not for everybody, but generally, when somebody is going through something that is their reality, they are out of touch with reality. So when you tell them that, that doesn't really make very much sense. Just like if I tell you that you're crazy and you're not crazy, you're to be like, I'm not crazy. Well, if you tell somebody who's crazy, And again when I say crazy, I mean how we sometimes can perceive somebody who's experiensing psychosis if we just tell them that, they're going to be like, no, I'm not because that is their reality, which is a confusing hard thing to sometimes just say. I don't know if that even made sense when I said it, but I hope.
00:12:19
Speaker 2: That it did.
00:12:21
Speaker 1: And so is there a way for you to express concern to the people closest to that person? Lastly, what I would say if you really are concerned, and this is for anybody ever, if you're concerned for somebody's immediate danger and well being, you can issue a welfare check and you don't have to be a mental health professional of any kind to do that. I would google how to do that in your area, because it's going to be different depending on where you live. But I can just google a welfare check that would send a trained professional, whether that it's a police officer that has been through crisis training or a crisis worker or something like that, to check on the person that I'm concerned about to see if they are in danger or not. So you can do that, it's not going to cost you anything. A lot of times I feel like the reason people don't do that is they're afraid that the person's going to get mad. At them, And what I can tell you is one, they're anonymous, and two, I think if you weigh the options here, somebody being mad at me versus I'm concerned for somebody's safety, that's going to trump that because if their safety is in danger in the long run, that is the most important thing versus somebody being upset with you over being concerned with them. So that's something that you can do.
00:13:29
Speaker 2: Now.
00:13:30
Speaker 1: As I kind of close this out, I know that this question was super specific and more specific than some what I want people to hear, and kind of what I'm saying are two things or a couple things.
00:13:42
Speaker 2: One, if we're.
00:13:43
Speaker 1: Seeing symptoms of something rather than throwing that off and just ignoring it and laughing it off or throwing judgment. And this can be with anything. Think about how people view symptoms of drug abuse or eating disorders. It's like, oh, they're just doing drugs and they're just doing this and they're blah blah blah, and we like label them as bad people.
00:14:06
Speaker 2: And I'm like, well, maybe the reason.
00:14:08
Speaker 1: That they are stealing drugs from the neighbor might be because they have an addiction and that's a mental health disorder, not an indication that this person is inherently bad or wrong, and there also is a solution and there is help. So if I'm concerned about somebody's behavior, first of all, why am I concerned about it? I'm concerned about somebody's behavior if it feels like they're doing something that's dangerous or wrong. Rather than just writing them off as bad people, what would happen if we started instead looking at people as inherently good and noticing the behaviors that don't fit with that, and looking at those as symptoms of a problem that is not the person. You know, the problem is the problem. The problem isn't the person. So I want people to hear that. And then the other thing I want people to hear is there are ways to express care and help that aren't always direct reaching out to somebody. And again, we have to look at what are our main concerns making sure somebody isn't mad at us? Right, it's a little codependency coming out or taking care of people's immediate life threatening needs. So that's going to do it for me today. I hope that you guys as always get something out of these short little conversations. And of course, if you have any questions that you want to send in, any feedback, anything, you can send that to Katherine at you Need Therapy podcast dot com. I hope you guys have the day you need to have and I will be back with you on Monday for another episode of You Need Therapy. If you want to follow us, you can do that on Instagram at you Need Therapy at kat van Buren
