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00:00:08.993Alright, folks, welcome back to the Property Couch podcast and have we got a great episode for you?
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00:00:17.765Today we are interviewing an auctioneer at the pinnacle of his game band and he talks all about the art of auctioning.
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00:00:18.486What else do we cover?
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00:00:21.931Bryce, you also gives us an insight into that.
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00:00:28.451You know dealing or fighting, that emotional feeling you get when you're actually bidding or selling at auction.
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00:00:31.487So some absolute gold there and hang around to the end of the show.
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00:00:32.570And what's making Property News?
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00:00:37.706We just give you a little bit of an update in terms of what's happening around auction clearance rates around the country.
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00:00:41.124Oh, lots to cover folks, let's rip into the show.
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00:00:55.667Welcome to the Property Couch where, each week, you get to listen to two of Australia's leading property and money experts Bryce Holdaway, co-host of Location Location, location Australia on Foxtel's Lifestyle Channel and co-host of Escape from the City on the ABC.
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00:01:14.289And Ben Kingsley, chair of Property Investors Council of Australia and a back-to-back winner of the Property Investment Advisor of the Year Award, and both are partners of the multi-award winning Empower Wealth, co-creators of Moor, the Freelife Style Design app, as well as bestselling authors of the Armchair Guide to Property Investing and Make Money Simple Again.
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00:01:24.245Stay tuned as they bring you the Insiders Guide to Property Finance and Money Management All right folks.
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00:01:28.311Welcome back to the Property Couch podcast and welcome back to you, mate.
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00:01:28.733How are you?
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00:01:30.275Mate, I'm terrific, and you.
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00:01:31.725I'm doing good, mate.
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00:01:38.846If you haven't looked at today being Thursday, the 23rd of November, mate, we are well and truly in the shadows of the end of the year.
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00:01:39.748We are.
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00:01:40.924And, importantly, for our listeners.
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00:01:46.388Ben, we are in the shadows of summer series and have we got some incredible guests lined up this year.
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00:01:50.859I'm super excited to bring some stories of transformation.
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00:01:53.868Yeah, look, we obviously love this time of the year.
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00:02:05.986It's a time of year where we can focus on really how we organise our finances, and then also some great stories about people who are having success both with money management but also with their property stories.
00:02:05.986 -->
00:02:14.350There are some really great property stories that we want to share in there as well, so that's property investment mastery that we're exploring as well.
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00:02:33.431So, folks, as you start to think towards Christmas pudding, getting the caravan on the back, going for a long break down south wherever you are up north in some cases, ben, I suppose I'm bringing my Perth lingo there Get your podcast queued up because there's going to be some rippers.
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00:02:35.165But today we've got a ripper show too.
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00:02:36.645Ben, we've got a very special guest.
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00:02:47.312We are talking to one of the professionals in the real estate game who is at the top of the mountain when it comes to auctioneering and gives us some incredible insights.
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00:02:57.691That because the challenge when you talk to an auctioneer, ben, is to try and get them to obviously display their skills in their craft and what they're passionate about from the seller side.
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00:03:03.929But we want to actually hear some of the gold from the buyer side and we're certainly excited to say that that's going to happen today.
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00:03:10.043But before we get there, I'm going to go to my mindset minute theme today Ben Jim Rowne.
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00:03:18.770I've been listening and watching to a ton of Jim Rowne stuff because my two I reckon my two personal growth heroes are Jim Rowne's Exiglera and their old school.
00:03:18.770 -->
00:03:23.587With some incredible wisdom, jim Rowne, the farmer from Idaho, can hear his voice.
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00:03:24.730It's so iconic, right?
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00:03:30.751But he's got the saying, ben, that things don't just happen, they happen just.
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00:03:46.633And I've thought about that, I've used that a lot and I speak about it with my wife because it's kind of just like sometimes it's not this random axe, sometimes things are part of a destiny, part of a bigger plan, a bunch of synchronicities that come along that you think that might look random, but they're not.
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00:03:50.629So he says it best when he says things don't just happen, they happen just.
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00:03:51.764And so why am I bringing up, ben?
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00:04:00.849I feel like there's another one that one of our friends, peter Kooleesos, said in this particular lane where you can flip it and spin it.
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00:04:03.705It was at the Pippa Conference 2023,.
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00:04:10.950You were there, ben, and he said this you don't wait to buy a real estate, you buy a real estate and wait.
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00:04:12.903Ha, let that land.
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00:04:20.709And just shout out to Veronica who put that across my bow, veronica Morgan, that is, but you don't wait to buy a real estate, you buy a real estate and wait.
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00:04:28.485And so, as I reflected on that for our audience today, ben, sadly, most people won't be financially successful because of the simplicity of that.
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00:04:32.968I think it must be something else, but it is just as simple as that.
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00:04:44.028We got a reminder recently, listened to the Jan Summers episode, which is my favorite, ben, because of just the significance of my journey around.
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00:04:53.206Everything was sparked through Jan, and it could have been her saying this very thing you don't wait to buy a real estate, you buy a real estate and wait.
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00:04:54.430And that is it, folks.
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00:04:55.572That is the game.
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00:05:01.716It's funny, bryce, and last week, literally last Friday, I was thinking of this particular point.
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00:05:15.208You're either a real estate buyer or you're not, and it's the same sort of context in the sense that you're either a real estate owner or buyer or you're not, and so that comes back to that action point.
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00:05:25.067So yeah, I mean it's just, I get into these Twitter or X feeds and I see all these people that are telling us about the challenges and all of that.
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00:05:27.141You know it's rigged, the system's rigged.
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00:05:28.002There's too much.
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00:05:30.810You know the government needs to do something about it.
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00:05:33.346You know someone else needs to fix my problem.
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00:05:36.225You're either a real estate owner or you're not.
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00:05:37.588You're not, I like it.
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00:05:43.963469 episodes later, Ben, I can summarize our thesis on this right Spend less than you earn.
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00:05:46.470Invest the difference and wait.
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00:05:48.524You don't have to listen to anything else.
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00:05:49.466Make action.
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00:05:49.968There we go.
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00:05:51.110That's it.
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00:05:55.369We are super excited to have our very special guest today.
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00:05:58.608As I said before, his name is Justin Nickerson.
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00:06:09.427Next cut to the interview you and I recently had with Justin Alright, Ben, we've got a very special guest today on the Property Couch we are chatting with Justin Nickerson.
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00:06:18.091He is the director of Apollo Auctions, the largest auctioneering business in Australasia, overseeing more than 6,000 auctions in 2022.
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00:06:36.843Fresh from speaking at the 25th anniversary of ARIC, which is Australasia's largest real estate conference, and he's formally recognized as the leading auctioneer across Australasia, he brings a refreshing understanding to the modern challenges facing the real estate industry in 2023.
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00:06:44.805Justin is the only Australian to win the Australasian Auctioneer of the Year three times in the history of the award.
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00:06:53.627He's also a five-time winner of the REIQ Auctioneer of the Year award, again being the only auctioneer in the state to achieve the distinction.
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00:07:01.206Justin was also the winner of the inaugural Australasian Auctioneering Competition at ARIC in 2018.
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00:07:07.492He works hand in hand with some of Australasia's leading real estate businesses on an auctioneering and coaching level.
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00:07:09.665Welcome to the Property Couch Justin.
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00:07:11.069Thanks for having me.
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00:07:18.588I only just realized how many times Australasia got mentioned there in that first intro, but good to know, so I appreciate you having me.
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00:07:26.466Well, it's fair to say there's a reasonable pedigree to your background professionally, which we'll get to know shortly.
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00:07:31.550And yes, it did test my abilities to say Australasia, so I think everyone will pick that up.
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00:07:42.350Before we do get into your professional background, we'd like to start with all of our guests on the podcast, just to get to know them through money back story.
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00:07:52.396So we're interested to know what were the conversations that you had growing up with your parents, perhaps over the dinner table, what you saw around money.
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00:07:53.480Yeah it is.
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00:07:54.463It's a really good question.
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00:08:02.201I think my parents instilled from a pretty early age the importance of all kind of work equaling money.
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00:08:05.951That money is not something that you just receive or gets handed to you.
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00:08:08.990It comes off the back of an action or something you do.
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00:08:25.925So, like most kids growing up in the, I won't give away my age here, but giving away many years ago I had the Commonwealth Bank SuperSaver account that you sort of put your dollar or two dollars in every week and that kind of taught you that the accumulation of money really and the power of that.
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00:08:29.610But like most people, I had the chores that resulted in money.
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00:08:32.159I remember one of my chores was weeding the backyard.
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00:08:36.532So if I weeded the backyard I'd get a bit of pocket money to there.
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00:08:42.753So, I think they were very big on the building that basis of if you want something, you have to work towards it.
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00:08:49.025It doesn't just get handed to you or you just don't go and buy instantly and have that instant gratification reward.
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00:08:56.277So that was a big thing, I guess, a foundational lesson that got sort of taught to me early on and something that we're trying to pass on now.
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00:09:07.970I've got a three year old daughter and she's just started doing chores now and she feeds the dog and gets a silver coin, or a similar coin, as she calls it, but it's a silver coin and we're trying to teach her.
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00:09:12.168When you get to a certain number of silver coins you can exchange up for a gold coin and so on and so forth.
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00:09:18.221So we're at the coffee shop this morning, ashley, she pulled out of three silver coins and, much to her disappointment, it didn't result in a gold coin.
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00:09:19.628But that was a good lesson for her this morning.
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00:09:23.730So we'll see what that translates and looks like in 20 or so years time.
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00:09:28.730So, justin, that built out some sort of building habits around behavioural.
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00:09:38.990Were there any other brothers and sisters in the household and did they develop a sort of similar understanding of the value of money and a bit of delayed gratification like you did?
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00:09:45.985Yeah, very much so I've got an older sister and a younger brother as well, and we're probably all the similar mindset around that.
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00:09:49.287I think none of us really are probably materialistic people.
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00:10:00.625You know that will probably spend money for the sake of it, I guess, as you accumulate more money, that it becomes much harder for that delay gratification thing to be in place.
00:10:00.625 -->
00:10:03.249It's easy to have delay gratification when you can't afford to buy something.
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00:10:04.322When you can afford to buy it.
00:10:04.322 -->
00:10:05.586It's much, much more challenging.
00:10:06.779 -->
00:10:12.809And it's a resource that my wife would no doubt say that I probably struggle with it a little bit, that if I see something I generally want it and want it quickly.
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00:10:17.110So I think, on a big level, big purchases and significant things.
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00:10:24.407You know that importance of talking through decisions, making sure you really want something before you go and sort of set a plan to achieve it.
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00:10:27.422That's probably consistent through myself and both my siblings as well.
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00:10:32.130And did you have a money system in terms of as you started earning money?
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00:10:43.732We'll talk about your real estate career in a minute but did you sort of have a system of managing money in terms of as you're growing up and your savings habits and how you look after your money?
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00:10:56.770Yeah, I think we had a kind of scribe, a spreadsheet that you sort of recorded how much money you were saving, and that I'm watching that go, and then you pull out the statements and see what the interest that you had on the money was there.
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00:11:04.768So that was probably the most basic and RK system that I had around it and again that early lesson for me was just around accumulation.
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00:11:16.032You know you have X and then if you work hard and you don't frivolously spend it, you know in eight weeks time X becomes Y and then Y gives you the capacity to build into Z and kind of so on and so forth.
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00:11:20.643And I think when you're you know you're early twenties or your teens or even earlier than that.
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00:11:29.669That's different to what it looks like when you become, you know, an adult or a responsible adult, but the lesson and the basic premise of it is definitely still the same.
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00:11:33.448Do you remember the first time you discovered the power of compounding?
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00:11:38.672I think I'm going to travel memory, so fight against me in these situations.
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00:11:52.099But there was one where where I'd saved and I had basically was like a salary sacrifice, where I had a certain amount of money that went into kind of a kind of term deposit sort of account and it's one that was direct evident in my pay.
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00:12:07.110So I didn't worry about it and I actually forgot about it for 18 months or so and then circle back, found it and then realized, you know, by me just not even consciously thinking about it and putting it there, plus the bank, you know, playing their part of their role.
00:12:07.110 -->
00:12:10.328It's amazing how what I became what it was.
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00:12:18.308So that was a really kind of basic, basic lesson of that and I think you know the more that this stuff gets taught earlier on, the better.
00:12:18.308 -->
00:12:30.405Financial literacy is such an important thing for when you come into your particularly a late teen, early adult years, because you know it's the first time you really come into access with money and at that stage you can do a lot with that.
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00:12:35.270But if it takes you a decade to work it out, you're sort of starting behind the eight or a lot of ways.
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00:12:37.043Yeah, where did?
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00:12:40.581Can you remember the spark for getting your own property started, justin?
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00:12:44.681Was it early when you started becoming independent, having your first job, or was there?
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00:12:46.948Was there a period where you just wanted to spend the money?
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00:12:53.253Where can you remember the pivot towards okay, buying property for yourself became a priority.
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00:13:21.803Yeah, I'd never.
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00:13:23.028I'd never really thought about it.
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00:13:26.368It hadn't ever really sort of crossed crossed my mind.
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00:13:28.101I was very fortunate, my.
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00:13:31.912When I grew up, we we all my parents owned every house we lived in.
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00:13:37.091So I'd never had an experience around renting in terms of my parents renting.
00:13:37.091 -->
00:13:40.129When I first left home, I rented for a big period there.
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00:13:42.288So that was kind of experience as to how rentals work.
00:13:42.288 -->
00:13:46.350And the thing that really struck me was the limited control that you have.
00:13:46.350 -->
00:13:50.708You know, you you want to put a picture up on the wall and you kind of feel bad about creating a hole there.
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00:13:59.580You want to change the floor, the floor plan, the layout, anything substantial, and you either need permission or you can't do it, whereas when you it's your home, you can do as you like.
00:13:59.580 -->
00:14:05.272And that was the biggest thing that probably spurred me towards wanting to own rather than rent.
00:14:05.272 -->
00:14:09.809It wasn't so much that I'm not, I'm paying money and it's not going to pay off mortgage or anything.
00:14:09.809 -->
00:14:14.644It was more that, hey, if it's my home, I can feel like it's my home and I can do as I as I please with it.
00:14:15.779 -->
00:14:24.945When I first came out of school, I was doing business degree and working for the AFL and I spent a bit of time in central and North Queensland and we moved to.
00:14:24.945 -->
00:14:43.427I moved to Mackay and I was pretty young I was probably on the 18 or 19 to live in Mackay for a period of time and the rental prices in Mackay at that stage were really really high because they had the mining boom, people coming in, fly, fly, fly, fly workers coming in and out, so the rentals were quite expensive Whereas the property prices hadn't quite caught up yet.
00:14:43.427 -->
00:14:49.491So purely from a financial point of view it just made better sense to to buy something rather than rent it.
00:14:49.491 -->
00:15:04.931And, thankfully, a bit of support for my parents, which I was very lucky to have and I understand and appreciate not everyone has that, but I was certainly lucky enough to have that manage to buy a property time to pretty well on the side of a boom, made a, made a bit of money out of it, thought, how easy is this?
00:15:04.931 -->
00:15:09.345You know you just buy a house and it goes up a lot of value and then you sell it and you have more money which I can.
00:15:09.446 -->
00:15:10.710I had to build back on the second one.
00:15:10.710 -->
00:15:20.231So it was a repeat story that one, but that was my first thing and then even that sort of sparked a bit of a love affair or curiosity around real estate.
00:15:20.231 -->
00:15:28.110You know how a real estate agent does their job, how the negotiation process unfolds, the positioning of a buyer, positioning of a seller, you know all that.
00:15:28.110 -->
00:15:34.808And then it's kind of sparked a curiosity that probably still lives to this day so funny how things work and fates sort of intertwined.
00:15:34.828 -->
00:15:46.909But that was my first kind of really launch into into property and in North Queens, out of all places, Well, you've given us a segue to talk about your spark into real estate, but before we go there, can you, can you, tell us a little bit about that second property?
00:15:46.909 -->
00:15:50.865It sounds like you had a look, like you had a smoke on your face there, so is there something interesting there?
00:15:50.884 -->
00:15:57.628Yeah, I don't like telling this story as much as I like telling the first one, but I think you're going to earn your losses as much as you earn your wins.
00:15:57.628 -->
00:16:12.865So I bought a property back, like moved back to wartime so home for me was in the North side of Brisbane bought a property back here when I came back after selling the one in Mackay and it was, you know, it's up over the North side of Brisbane it had a bit of a water glimpse.
00:16:12.865 -->
00:16:29.250So that kind of really grabbed me and I've always, even to today, like a view is really important to me in terms of property decisions, I mean in terms of PPRs, but having something to look at, whether it be a water, ocean, city, hinterland, something that's that's a really important thing to me.
00:16:29.250 -->
00:16:32.487And this, this property, had a view of the water which kind of really grabbed me in.
00:16:34.059 -->
00:16:40.583The problem was I had to buy for Savlo owner, which can either work out really well or really badly, and for me it turned out to be the second one.
00:16:40.583 -->
00:16:43.846She just refused basically to negotiate.
00:16:43.846 -->
00:16:44.749The price was the price.
00:16:44.749 -->
00:16:50.129I was emotionally invested and had very little kind of self control or negotiation skills at that point in time.
00:16:50.129 -->
00:16:54.568So I accepted her price she wouldn't allow me to build a pest, which I also accepted.
00:16:54.568 -->
00:16:55.110Yeah.
00:16:55.779 -->
00:16:57.946So all these, lessons that you know you learn later on.
00:16:58.668 -->
00:17:01.182Another house was falling down or anything but so now for a board.
00:17:01.224 -->
00:17:05.868it realized there were some issues there that needed rectifying, so it cost cost me a bit of money, but it was also timing.
00:17:05.868 -->
00:17:10.744I just bought it at a bad time near the GFC when I came to sell it.
00:17:10.744 -->
00:17:18.451You know, a couple of years later lost money on it, let alone stamp duties, repayments, money put into it like all of that.
00:17:18.700 -->
00:17:20.066So yeah, good lesson.
00:17:20.480 -->
00:17:29.587You know, if I think, if I, if I'd sold that one at a win as well, I probably would have made my mistake on the third one, because at some point you need to get your confidence shook to to really understand the realities of it.
00:17:29.587 -->
00:17:33.249But both of them were good lessons in a way, as to the upside and the downside.
00:17:33.249 -->
00:17:40.388But also, you know, when you do make big decisions you've got to really be careful and think through it and try and fight that emotional brain as much as you can.
00:17:41.540 -->
00:18:00.280Justin, I'm interested in your view on how you see property as a wealth creation vehicle, because you you are in the game as an agent, meaning that transactions are how you earn a living, and yet you've experienced property, you've seen your parents, you've had an experience.
00:18:00.280 -->
00:18:10.371On the second one, do you what's your, what's your worldview on real estate as a place to park your income and hold properties in in perpetuity?
00:18:10.371 -->
00:18:21.112Because a lot of your peers see as it is something that I'll get to next year, whereas but they're at the coal face of the greatest show in our view on in the investment landscape.
00:18:21.112 -->
00:18:28.185So do you what's your sort of 10, 20 year view of property, separate to your ability to earn an income from property?
00:18:29.701 -->
00:18:48.172Yeah, I'm probably not as, not as advanced in my thinking of this as some of other people that you know contemporaries that typically do a lot of work with, but my understanding of it has always just been that I think I like investing in things that you can touch and feel, and a property you can touch and feel when it's present.
00:18:48.360 -->
00:18:49.847That's always been, for me, the biggest.
00:18:49.847 -->
00:18:57.951The biggest thing it's drew me to properly, rather than shares or things that are you can't physically touch them and certainly have no impact.
00:18:57.951 -->
00:19:02.256So for me, it's things like you know, property or businesses.
00:19:02.256 -->
00:19:08.265You know you can have an impact upon those kinds of things, the things where I feel like there's some semblance of control.
00:19:08.265 -->
00:19:18.887But also I can touch it and feel it and that's why, for me, crypto like I might understand that crypto would be a four out of 100 or 400,000, it's very limited, but that's always been the thing that I really struggled with is I can't.
00:19:18.887 -->
00:19:20.150I can't touch it and feel it.
00:19:20.150 -->
00:19:21.784Therefore, I don't feel connected to it.
00:19:22.800 -->
00:19:42.820So I think property for most people should be a really central or integral part of your strategy, and it's also one of the rare things that you can, you can invest into and enjoy the benefit of it while you do it, and particularly probably recently, now that you know our family's starting to grow and probably more on the let's enjoy it side of it than a pure great financial decision.
00:19:42.820 -->
00:19:57.281But I think the two can coexist and run run side by side, and I think the ability of what property can do for a variety of purposes and means is really unmatched by pretty much any other investment and people.
00:19:57.281 -->
00:20:00.971Again, this this is the semblance of understanding is so important.
00:20:00.971 -->
00:20:10.097I think the other thing that's always run sort of be ran home to me from my own mindset is that if I'm in, like you said, I'm at the cop being an oxy.
00:20:10.097 -->
00:20:12.865I'm at the cold face of negotiating all the time.
00:20:12.865 -->
00:20:15.552You know we effectively negotiate from living with buyers and sellers.
00:20:16.100 -->
00:20:16.160If.
00:20:16.241 -->
00:20:22.228I'm going to help and advise people to make decisions at certain point at times I have to be living and breathing that existence as well.
00:20:22.228 -->
00:20:28.988So if I'm telling people, hey, this is how you should, you know, buy a property, I, when I try my property, should be living and breathing that.
00:20:28.988 -->
00:20:41.230And if you are someone who's at the cold face and you're an agent and you've never been bored or sold, it's important you have that experience, because lived experience is the best experience for you to be able to pass on, pass advice on.
00:20:41.230 -->
00:20:46.432So for me, if property wasn't a big part of my life yet I made my living from it I'd feel fraudulent.
00:20:46.432 -->
00:20:52.625So it's important for me to keep relevant for my own experiences, to be able to sort of represent that in the job that I do.
00:20:53.900 -->
00:21:09.212Well, justin, you're speaking to the converted here, so it's an easy conversation that the three of us are having, but it's a nice little segue in terms of telling us the story about how you got in and moved across from sounds like you're working for the AFL, moving into to real estate.
00:21:09.212 -->
00:21:14.665So tell us that little, that little journey to to obviously then becoming one of Australia's preeminent auctioneers.
00:21:16.826 -->
00:21:18.653Yeah, it seems like a long time ago now.
00:21:18.653 -->
00:21:21.785It probably isn't in terms of years, but it does seem like a long time ago.
00:21:21.960 -->
00:21:23.306So when I was working for the AFL.
00:21:23.306 -->
00:21:32.052I enjoyed it but always probably saw it as a limited career path in terms of what I wanted out of life and what was most important to me.
00:21:32.052 -->
00:21:37.412So came to the junction after a couple of years in North Queensland to sort of decide what I wanted to do.
00:21:37.412 -->
00:21:42.312What I knew I wanted to do, like like a lot of people, is I wanted to wear nice clothes.
00:21:42.312 -->
00:21:50.148I wanted to play an important role in whatever that role looked like and at some point drive a nice car or live in a nice house.
00:21:51.041 -->
00:21:58.950And honestly, if you want to do those things and you don't have a degree behind you, 99 times out of 100, the answer tends to be real estate, rightly or wrongly.
00:21:58.950 -->
00:22:02.890So we we joke that real estate a lot of times is a second chance occupation.
00:22:02.890 -->
00:22:07.391It's usually the occupation you do when your first occupation hasn't exactly gone to, gone to plan.
00:22:07.391 -->
00:22:16.144I think there's very few people unless you're a generational real estate agent that come through year 10 or year 11 and say I cannot wait to graduate so I can get out there and start selling form sixes.
00:22:17.041 -->
00:22:18.946Like it's not really the it's.
00:22:19.026 -->
00:22:20.730it's sort of like that hasn't worked out.
00:22:20.730 -->
00:22:26.332It was a pretty easy barrier to entry in this one and I can earn reasonably good money if I'm good at it.
00:22:26.332 -->
00:22:29.769So therefore, I'm going to give the crack and that's, that's undoubtedly what attracted me.
00:22:29.769 -->
00:22:50.127I came back, decided you know, whatever my boots were, I became an agent for three years, which was really important for me as a grounding for what I do now, because it gives you not only a fun, a foundational understanding of buying and selling property, but, most importantly, it gives you an insight as to how agents think.
00:22:50.127 -->
00:23:00.628And our client base as auctioneers is agents, not the general public the general public, maybe, who pays us and who we come into contact with, but our repeat client basis, agents, that's who our relationships are with.
00:23:00.628 -->
00:23:10.162So for me to be the best in my role, I need to understand how an agent thinks, what pressures they under, how do they feel about this, how they feel about that, and that's become.
00:23:10.162 -->
00:23:15.085That was a really valuable thing After that kind of three years of being an agent.
00:23:15.245 -->
00:23:17.231I'd seen auctions, I'd seen auctioneers.
00:23:18.181 -->
00:23:21.690I thought that's the sort of path I really want to kind of pursue and go down.
00:23:22.480 -->
00:23:30.830I was fortunate enough to come in, come into contact with a really good auctioneer at the time, a guy called Jason Andrew who was my sort of first mentor.
00:23:30.830 -->
00:23:44.114He ran an auctioneering course that was kind of a thinly veiled recruitment recruitment course but did its job and at the end of that made the decision to join become a full-time auctioneer.
00:23:44.114 -->
00:24:02.410So it was interesting because you mentioned my parents and I bring this up to my parents a lot but they actually wrote me a letter telling me not to, or not telling me not to, expressing their concern that my three years of investment as an agent and the skills were going to go to waste on space and going to be starting again, which was a fair point at the time.
00:24:02.410 -->
00:24:06.951And look, in the first six months or a year of my career they'll probably be right.
00:24:06.951 -->
00:24:14.888But then, like everything, if you work at it for hard enough, for long enough, you know you'll eventually sort of turn in your favor and that's kind of what transpired.
00:24:15.960 -->
00:24:16.925Where did that resolve come from?
00:24:16.925 -->
00:24:21.412Because, from my observation, auctioneering is definitely not for everyone.
00:24:21.412 -->
00:24:31.215It's a public speaking role and you've got to be, you've got to improvise, you've got to be quick on your feet and you've got to have a healthy amount of swag, all right.
00:24:31.215 -->
00:24:37.417So where did you find the resolve to go?
00:24:37.417 -->
00:24:38.540Because that's pretty powerful.
00:24:38.540 -->
00:24:44.313Mum and Dad writing you a letter to say are you sure do you want to put it into reverse and go back to that?
00:24:44.313 -->
00:24:46.107That requires some resolve.
00:24:46.107 -->
00:24:47.343What did you lean on?
00:24:47.343 -->
00:24:51.206Clearly, there was this guy who's probably trained you that you could act as a mentor.
00:24:51.206 -->
00:24:55.875But in some of those sort of dark mental moments, how did you navigate that?
00:24:57.592 -->
00:25:10.578Well, he was a great mentor in terms of teaching me skills, but he was also, I guess, a bit of a North Star to show this is what your life could look like if you stick at it, and that was probably really important.
00:25:10.578 -->
00:25:28.255Like, we talk about visible role models all the time, One of the challenges our occupation has is a lack of female representation, and I always come back to the fact that we don't have enough visible female role models as auctioneers to then inspire the next generation to sort of keep going and coming through.
00:25:28.255 -->
00:25:34.894Like I think if you look at them till is there a great example right Female soccer in Australia or female football, depending on what you call.
00:25:34.894 -->
00:25:41.595It is gonna be a really good shape for the next decade, because now there's a visible role model or a team of visible role models to say I wanna be like that person.
00:25:42.130 -->
00:25:48.437So, for me, jason played a really important role, literally teaching me, but also guiding me, just by who he was and his presence.
00:25:48.437 -->
00:25:49.752You know, I'm a dad.
00:25:49.752 -->
00:25:51.772I've always got your best interests at heart.
00:25:51.772 -->
00:25:59.540They weren't the best for you, and the best for me at that stage they were probably right, probably was not to deviate off the path that I had.
00:25:59.540 -->
00:26:05.375They rightfully pointed out that I'd done the hard yards, in that I sort of started to come into a little bit of success while I was trying to steer off this.
00:26:06.010 -->
00:26:19.435The thing that I kept coming back to, though, was that it's funny around public speaking, because I didn't like public speaking at school even coming out of school was unnatural, or a foreign public speaker never did debating never did anything of that.
00:26:19.435 -->
00:26:20.795In fact, I didn't really enjoy it.
00:26:20.795 -->
00:26:34.038What I loved, though, is negotiation, and that's what kept drawing me in is that if you're an auctioneer yeah, we do auctions and we call a lot, you know, absolutely, and the call is important, but what's really important to our role is negotiation.
00:26:34.038 -->
00:26:40.897The most fulfilling auctions are not the ones where you have lots of bidding and they sell past reserve and you knock it down and you look like a hero.
00:26:40.897 -->
00:26:49.175The ones that they're really fulfilling are the ones where you're in a back room for 30 minutes, 40 minutes, 50 minutes, helping an agent drag a deal across the line between a seller and a buyer.
00:26:49.175 -->
00:26:50.596That's actually the most rewarding ones.
00:26:50.596 -->
00:27:02.438And that's what I just kept coming back to was I feel like I can be good at this and I feel like if I keep working out, I'll get the opportunity to do this a lot, which exactly kind of what's manifested itself now.
00:27:02.438 -->
00:27:05.999So, yeah, it took a lot of hard work.
00:27:06.210 -->
00:27:07.435The swagger thing, I'd argue.
00:27:07.435 -->
00:27:09.355I probably still don't have swagger.
00:27:09.355 -->
00:27:09.832I think it's.
00:27:09.832 -->
00:27:14.396I have confidence in what I do, but confidence, you know, for me it comes after skill, not before.
00:27:14.396 -->
00:27:18.755So it took a long time to get that confidence, but I definitely think you need to.
00:27:18.755 -->
00:27:22.299You need there's two things you need to be as a good auctioneer.
00:27:22.299 -->
00:27:28.035One is you need to be able to count, like that's a basic skill, like if you can't add up, auctioneering is probably just not for you.
00:27:28.035 -->
00:27:30.356And the other one is your right price.
00:27:30.356 -->
00:27:30.838You identify.
00:27:30.838 -->
00:27:31.854You're gonna be quick on your feet.
00:27:31.854 -->
00:27:38.874If you can have a quick wit or a quick ability to think on your feet and respond, then you can just about learn everything else other than counting.
00:27:39.790 -->
00:27:46.520And that's probably the attribute that I've always had, even if it was buried deep beneath at that stage.
00:27:46.520 -->
00:27:57.474I've always, I guess, been pretty quick in my mind to be able to respond to things or to think on my feet, and as I become an auctioneer and growing, that served me kind of really well and become, I guess, one of my hallmarks.
00:27:58.297 -->
00:27:59.040I've seen you in action.
00:27:59.040 -->
00:28:10.938I mean the swagger comes from the confidence in your own ability, right, and I think that it's just my observation of you and it's only from an outsider is it's just, it's a healthy swagger, right?
00:28:10.938 -->
00:28:13.377So I mean that a positive.
00:28:13.377 -->
00:28:26.257What I found interesting is what you just said is is a, and it's really refreshing is that a, an auctioneer, is remunerated from getting the deal done and moving on to the next one.
00:28:26.257 -->
00:28:34.263And yet you, you, you said that you get most joy by sticking around and making that negotiation happen.
00:28:34.390 -->
00:28:43.911So I guess that's probably for anyone who's listening to this cause we most of our audiences from the buy side, but there are some listing agents that listen to us, I think.
00:28:43.911 -->
00:29:00.533I think there's some some success leave includes there, you, you, you are in the battlefield enjoying the craft of the negotiation, and then you let the scoreboard take care of itself later, which is, which is nice, cause I guess it could be easy for an auctioneer to get caught up in.
00:29:00.533 -->
00:29:06.918I've got my nine o'clock one, I've got my 12, 31, I've got my three and just keep moving, and it's a results based business.
00:29:06.918 -->
00:29:07.954So that's nice and refreshing.
00:29:08.470 -->
00:29:09.554There's two things I'll say on that.
00:29:09.554 -->
00:29:10.498I'm sorry to cut you off.
00:29:10.498 -->
00:29:15.974The first thing is we say to auctioneers all the time that having a great call is important, but what will?
00:29:15.974 -->
00:29:17.770What will keep agents booking you time off?
00:29:17.770 -->
00:29:20.159The time is when you can help get a deal across the line.
00:29:20.159 -->
00:29:21.335They wouldn't have done their own.
00:29:21.335 -->
00:29:24.916That's the actual, really integral part, Cause that results in them getting paid.
00:29:24.916 -->
00:29:25.813They feel good about it.
00:29:25.813 -->
00:29:27.934They feel good about it, they, they re-engage us.
00:29:28.830 -->
00:29:39.679The second thing is that you, you know, if you looked at the Saturday so last Saturday, for example, I had 15 auctions on Saturday If I sat down in the morning and thought about the factor of 15 auctions, that becomes overpowering.
00:29:39.770 -->
00:29:42.980And also you start thinking about I'm not going to make it here, I'll be late to this one.
00:29:42.980 -->
00:29:51.278You know my, my thought process always around, that is that I'm present at the auction from the moment that I'm driving to it to the moment I leave for it.
00:29:51.278 -->
00:29:53.418That auction is the one that's the most important one.
00:29:53.418 -->
00:30:10.717The next one will be there when I get to the next one, Cause if I go into an auction thinking about my next auction, that happens after that one and I've got a 28 minute travel time to that and it's, you know, that's going to influence the way I behave in terms of treating buyers, treating sellers, the speed of my call, those kinds of things.
00:30:10.717 -->
00:30:16.659So you just have to be present for the one that's right there and let the next one be present when it's time for that one to present itself.
00:30:17.670 -->
00:30:19.016So, justin, I mean a credit to you.
00:30:19.016 -->
00:30:23.439I mean, if we know the Queensland market, it's not a big auction market, right?
00:30:23.439 -->
00:30:25.497So it's, you know, like where is Victoria?
00:30:25.497 -->
00:30:34.839Melbourne is pretty much the capital of auctions, followed by Sydney, and then obviously we know that Queensland, brisbane and Adelaide are starting to do a few more auctions these days.
00:30:34.839 -->
00:30:41.753So credit to you in terms of becoming, you know, a mastery of your craft in a smaller market to be able to do that.
00:30:41.753 -->
00:30:45.592I want to sort of dig into a couple of things I want to talk about.
00:30:45.592 -->
00:30:48.251Who are your customers Like?
00:30:48.251 -->
00:30:52.156Who's the audience that you're most focused in on when you're doing an auction?
00:30:52.156 -->
00:30:54.918So if you can explain that to our community, that would be great.
00:30:54.918 -->
00:31:02.598And then I'd love to know about what are the advantages in terms of taking a property to auction as opposed to a private treaty sale.
00:31:04.070 -->
00:31:05.436Yeah, just to go back to your first point.
00:31:05.436 -->
00:31:08.659There you mentioned, ben, around Brisbane being an auction market or not.
00:31:08.659 -->
00:31:13.856So much we probably I probably benefited from that from the early stages of my career.
00:31:13.856 -->
00:31:17.898Auctions were tough in Brisbane and when auctions are tough, it teaches you two things.
00:31:17.898 -->
00:31:26.357The first thing is it teaches you to negotiate, because if I just went out the front and yelled out numbers and didn't negotiate, I'd have a very short shelf life and we wouldn't sell much.
00:31:26.357 -->
00:31:31.116The second thing is it actually influences the type of auctioneer that you are.
00:31:31.116 -->
00:31:41.115So you'll find auctioneers out of particularly out of Queensland who generally have less speed to them but better pattern commentary because they're used to less bids.
00:31:41.156 -->
00:31:44.619Coming In centres where they get a lot of bidding all the time.
00:31:44.619 -->
00:31:52.597Auctioneers become reliant on that and when they need, when they go to an auction where there's not a lot of bidding, they kind of get caught a little bit Like my bids aren't coming, what do I do?
00:31:52.597 -->
00:31:58.098Whereas we come from a place where you don't have heaps and heaps of bidding.
00:31:58.098 -->
00:32:02.463So therefore you can kind of you're probably more versatile in the way that you adjust to your style.
00:32:02.463 -->
00:32:04.415So it's interesting where you start.
00:32:04.570 -->
00:32:12.216We see a lot of hallmarks of auctioneers, particularly in auctioneering competitions, have their style based on the environment they come out of, in terms of who our customer is.
00:32:12.216 -->
00:32:14.637Our customer, undoubtedly is agents.
00:32:14.637 -->
00:32:18.100So it's again, it's a weird environment that we have.
00:32:18.100 -->
00:32:20.498The person that pays us is not always our customer.
00:32:20.498 -->
00:32:27.237So quite often, or most of the time, the vendor will pay us through the agency, but the vendor will pay us directly from the source.
00:32:27.730 -->
00:32:29.417But our customer is agents.
00:32:29.417 -->
00:32:34.617So it's not that we pitch directly to the living rooms to get them to employ us.
00:32:34.617 -->
00:32:38.334We pitch to agents to go to living rooms to get them to employ us.
00:32:38.334 -->
00:32:44.919So our marketing, our strategy, our social media is really geared towards agents.
00:32:44.919 -->
00:32:49.415We do have some clients that direct us sorry, request us directly.
00:32:49.415 -->
00:32:55.057So they'll go to an agency that we don't particularly work for or with and say, look, I really want this person, this guy.
00:32:55.057 -->
00:32:58.612So I don't care who you usually use, I don't want them.
00:32:58.612 -->
00:33:04.300I want this person because I've seen them and that's probably having more and more since auctions have become more widespread in 2021.
00:33:04.300 -->
00:33:12.053And I think the thing we say to vendors is who handles your auction is pretty important in the scheme of things.
00:33:13.390 -->
00:33:16.517Firstly, their ability to negotiate, but also secondly, purely as an auctioneer.
00:33:16.517 -->
00:33:19.778The average closing bid on an auction is $2,500.
00:33:19.778 -->
00:33:28.494So if you choose incorrectly as an auctioneer, you choose the wrong one, and they can't get one more bid for you because they're either not that committed or not that skillful.
00:33:28.494 -->
00:33:32.641That's cost you $2,500 at least, at least straightaway.
00:33:32.641 -->
00:33:46.572So I think the depth of research we put around it to say, hey, I don't care who you usually use, this is the person I want because they're gonna be the best representation of all my property In terms of the biggest advantages Can I just jump in?
00:33:46.593 -->
00:34:04.719there, justin, just before we go into the advantages, it's pretty important for the community to know because obviously we're national that in some cases in some markets there are specialist agents that are employed, like you, who run a separate business, that come in and do the role for a branded selling agency.
00:34:04.719 -->
00:34:10.559But in other cases, some of the larger agencies also have their own in-house auctioneers as well.
00:34:10.559 -->
00:34:29.273So you can see from Justin's commentary that he is one of those specialists who come in and works with different agents and that's why his community and his value community is obviously being signed up by that selling agent who's using an external auctioneer, such as yourself, to be able to do that work.
00:34:30.389 -->
00:34:33.574Yeah, I think that there's specialists through Australia and New Zealand.
00:34:33.574 -->
00:34:36.499There's specialists in every state and territory.
00:34:36.499 -->
00:34:41.238And the point that I would make around that is it's very hard to be great at two things.
00:34:41.238 -->
00:34:43.834It's very hard to be a great agent and be a great auctioneer.
00:34:43.834 -->
00:34:46.775A they're different skill sets, but B they also need time.
00:34:48.030 -->
00:34:51.197Last week, as I mentioned, so last week I did 41 auctions across the week.
00:34:51.197 -->
00:35:05.277That's 41 different scenarios where I had to deliver a property description, an introduction, negotiate, field, bidding, you know, and then the rest of the week was spent delivering training sessions around auctions how they work this way.
00:35:05.277 -->
00:35:05.858You should do that.
00:35:05.858 -->
00:35:07.597This is what happens when a buyer asks you this question.
00:35:07.597 -->
00:35:09.557This is what happens when a seller pushes back on this.
00:35:09.557 -->
00:35:14.818My whole week and my whole existence extrapolator, over 10 years has been around auctions.
00:35:14.818 -->
00:35:37.823So I think when the choice comes down to it, you know, I think it's very difficult for a seller to say to someone what they want, but when it comes down to it, would you rather have someone who specializes and does it for a living, or someone who's done one auction the last month, like there's a specialist and then there's someone who does it?
00:35:37.844 -->
00:35:38.209as a whole week.
00:35:38.209 -->
00:35:39.474That's the master of peace coming out.
00:35:39.474 -->
00:35:41.954That's right, yeah, exactly, and it's the same with any occupation.
00:35:42.869 -->
00:35:48.460I won't compare ourselves to heart surgeons or anything of that nature, as much as I'd love to think that maybe that's a swagger price that comes through.
00:35:48.460 -->
00:35:50.577But you know, think about your dentist, right?
00:35:50.577 -->
00:35:54.179Would you rather go to a dentist to practice dentistry for 10 or 15 years?
00:35:54.179 -->
00:35:56.438They do it all in, you know, every day and every day.
00:35:56.438 -->
00:36:00.517Or do you go to your GP and he says oh yeah, and I do some dentistry on the side.
00:36:00.517 -->
00:36:04.836I did it in, I did a filling last month, so I'll do another one for you next week.
00:36:04.836 -->
00:36:08.999It's a bit cheaper, you know like you go to the dentist every single time.
00:36:08.999 -->
00:36:11.336So I just think that's you know.
00:36:11.336 -->
00:36:12.280And obviously I'm biased.
00:36:12.280 -->
00:36:14.979It's unquestionable that I'm biased in this situation.
00:36:14.979 -->
00:36:25.836But we devote our life to auctions and I would struggle to see how someone can perform as well if they haven't done the same when it comes to advantages for auction.
00:36:25.836 -->
00:36:27.751Look, how long do you have, ben.
00:36:27.791 -->
00:36:31.697I think you know my fundamental belief is two things.
00:36:31.697 -->
00:36:34.659Firstly, it's that not every property should go to auction.
00:36:34.659 -->
00:36:36.773It should be.
00:36:36.773 -->
00:36:40.137You should understand as a listing agent or a seller.
00:36:40.137 -->
00:36:45.838You should understand both methods of sale and have it explained to you and then choose the one that you think is most appropriate.
00:36:45.838 -->
00:36:53.474The second thing is that you either give the buyers a day they can buy the property on or a price they can buy for.
00:36:53.474 -->
00:37:02.778So there's been, since the market has really kicked on, you know, through probably early parts of COVID and beyond, we've had a rise when we call the hybrids.
00:37:02.778 -->
00:37:13.476So the hybrids are the ones that sit in the middle, which is kind of like the for sale contact agent, price per negotiation, like they're no price marketing strategies but they're not actually auctions.
00:37:13.476 -->
00:37:18.875And I always say, look, we ask a cheeky question, that's can you be half pregnant?
00:37:18.875 -->
00:37:20.132And you can't.
00:37:20.132 -->
00:37:21.637You're either pregnant or you're not pregnant.
00:37:21.637 -->
00:37:27.157And I just think it's those, the hybrids, the ones that sit in the middle of the ones, that probably should go one direction or the other.
00:37:27.157 -->
00:37:31.117We either say to the buyers hey, look, if you pay X amount you can buy it.
00:37:31.117 -->
00:37:37.137Or we say to the buyers if you come along with this day and you're the high speeder, she and my seller agrees you can buy it.
00:37:37.137 -->
00:37:38.957So we're giving them something to work for.
00:37:39.050 -->
00:37:41.117But the biggest advantage I think with auction is twofold.
00:37:41.117 -->
00:37:44.259Number one, it's that it changes because there's no price.
00:37:44.259 -->
00:37:46.418It changes the thought process of buyers.
00:37:46.418 -->
00:37:50.972So, rather than it being price and logic based, it's no.
00:37:50.972 -->
00:37:52.277Price is emotion based.
00:37:52.277 -->
00:38:01.735So buyers think emotionally first and justify it with logic, not the other way around, which is so important because emotion is the primary driver in real estate transactions.
00:38:01.735 -->
00:38:04.396The second part is that it maximizes competition.
00:38:04.396 -->
00:38:14.635Face to face competition is the strongest way of getting elicting the best price out, so that no price marketing strategy puts them into to a face to face competitive environment.
00:38:14.635 -->
00:38:25.036And we say to sellers all the time an agent's job is really simple it's to find and retain a buyer who's emotionally engaged on a property and then placed in a situation where they're in competition.
00:38:25.036 -->
00:38:26.119That's it.
00:38:26.119 -->
00:38:31.018So that should be our strategy we're geared towards and the benefit from a buyer is transparency.
00:38:31.018 -->
00:38:34.314You can see who you're up against and make decisions accordingly.
00:38:35.718 -->
00:38:37.413I think there's a bit of gold there for our audience.
00:38:37.413 -->
00:38:37.876Just to get a.
00:38:37.876 -->
00:38:47.309You just got an insider's view on what the auctioneering process is from the seller side, and so you know the wave of emotion that you're up against as a buyer.
00:38:47.309 -->
00:38:48.335So that's really important.
00:38:48.335 -->
00:38:52.800Hey, justin, you said 15 auctions on Saturday.
00:38:52.800 -->
00:38:56.378So I'm sitting here going how's that logistically possible?
00:38:56.378 -->
00:39:08.798I think you know there's what 12 hours of sunlight in a day, but you're not working all 12 hours, so it's probably eight prime hours a day and you've got travel and you want to be engaged and you negotiate, because that's the fun stuff you love.
00:39:08.798 -->
00:39:15.635Can you give us a little hint and understanding on how does that logistically work 15 auctions in a day for you?
00:39:16.570 -->
00:39:23.834First, I'm guessing you guys are a little bit further south where I'm in Brisbane, so we get a little bit more sunlight here, because this is kind of God's own country up here so we probably stay
00:39:23.855 -->
00:39:24.55713 hours.
00:39:24.677 -->
00:39:27.474Yeah, so well.
00:39:27.474 -->
00:39:31.997Firstly, our first auction for a Saturday traditionally is 8am, so 8am is our first auction of the day.
00:39:31.997 -->
00:39:46.700Last Saturday, my last one was at 6.30pm and in that period we had one event of three auctions in a room that were three in, three in one, and then the rest fitted in between eight o'clock and 6.30.
00:39:46.700 -->
00:39:52.238So traditionally, depending on travel times, we're kind of hourly with our auctions.
00:39:52.238 -->
00:39:57.557If we're in the same suburb, occasion will be a little bit shorter than that, but most of the time it's sort of on the hour.
00:39:57.557 -->
00:40:05.177So if you work through and go eight, nine, 10, 11, 12, one, two, three, four, five, six, that's 11 spots that you have already.
00:40:05.177 -->
00:40:10.528We had then out to 6.30 so we could get pick up another spot, which is 12, we have one with three in there.
00:40:10.528 -->
00:40:17.099So 15 is probably an unusually high one, but Saturday's traditionally usually is 12.
00:40:17.099 -->
00:40:19.517That's kind of the number that's most common.
00:40:20.610 -->
00:40:26.601Back in the heady days of 2021, when the market was just on fire, two things happened.
00:40:26.601 -->
00:40:29.960Number one is that auctions were really fast.
00:40:29.960 -->
00:40:33.820So what slows you down in an auction's negotiation?
00:40:33.820 -->
00:40:35.075That's the bit that takes time.
00:40:35.075 -->
00:40:40.515The auctions themselves are really more than sort of 10 or 12 minutes of bidding, so they're actually really fast.
00:40:40.515 -->
00:40:44.157So 2021, a lot of the time, who were doing auctions even tighter than that.
00:40:44.157 -->
00:40:51.976We were sort of fitting into getting to 18 or 19 auctions on a Saturday because there was so much frenzy and activity that they were really fast.
00:40:51.976 -->
00:40:57.614So you get in, there'd be no negotiation, you'd sell it, you'd get in the car, you'd go to your next one and off you went.
00:40:57.614 -->
00:41:04.275We're now in a period again where negotiations come back to the fore, so we're having to slow the auctions down, lead more time between them.
00:41:04.275 -->
00:41:12.615But yeah, it's always a balancing act between maximizing your value on a Saturday but also making sure that you're not running late to an auction, which is not a good look.
00:41:13.410 -->
00:41:17.958You must be sucking your thumb in the corner in the fetal position on Saturday nights, though.
00:41:17.958 -->
00:41:30.237If you're doing 18 auctions in a day, last thing you want to do is talk, cause when you're in a performance-based business like you are, boy, one hour of performance-based is like three hours elsewhere, so you multiply that by the amount of auctions you're having.
00:41:30.237 -->
00:41:34.454Chances are it's not your peak conversational state with your wife on a Saturday night.
00:41:35.289 -->
00:41:36.536Yeah, I think she's got used to that.
00:41:36.911 -->
00:41:58.278I think she knew what she was in for when we first met, so that was the case, but funny because in 2021, I remember saying multiple times in my life I'd come home on a Saturday and I'd be less tired than I usually would, because it's just energized when you have a lot of bidding and it's frenzied and it's past reserves and it's that's actually really what's draining is negotiation.
00:41:58.470 -->
00:41:59.775That's mentally draining.
00:41:59.775 -->
00:42:06.398So I could have, if I have seven auctions, for example, on a day, and there's six of them, I'd date negotiations for a long period of time.
00:42:06.398 -->
00:42:11.059That's more draining than 15 auctions where they fly past reserve unquestionably.
00:42:11.059 -->
00:42:14.460So that's the bit that really sort of gets you.
00:42:14.460 -->
00:42:18.476So 2021 was kind of a funny one that you'd sort of come home and be energized.
00:42:18.476 -->
00:42:28.155I do remember, though, a couple of times I'd go to sleep and I'd be thinking I was calling an auction, like I'd be doing terms and conditions in my sleep and, like you know, it's just in my head because you've done it so many times that day.
00:42:28.155 -->
00:42:30.117It was a really fun, really fun time.
00:42:31.450 -->
00:42:39.117Justin, I want to move the conversation along in terms of talking about you know, getting that insider's view of auctioneering as well.
00:42:39.117 -->
00:42:49.577I want to look at you, know how you discuss setting a reserve price and then you know what are some of the bidding strategies that you see out there.
00:42:49.577 -->
00:42:58.280I mean, having done so many auctions, people's tactics around their approach to bidding, Because you know, I remember what you said earlier.
00:42:58.280 -->
00:43:03.838You know, in most cases, as a buyer, you're fighting that emotional feeling is what you said.
00:43:03.838 -->
00:43:05.101That is true.
00:43:05.101 -->
00:43:11.796If you've got an emotional attachment to the property, your job is to get that emotion into a higher price for your client.
00:43:11.796 -->
00:43:19.340Take us through reserve price setting for auctions and then, ultimately, some of the bidding strategies that you see out there.
00:43:19.340 -->
00:43:21.811Yeah, Reserve, sets.
00:43:23.376 -->
00:43:32.373They're a bit funny that in most of the states, in Australia in particular, the legislation is really clear where it says that it's often subject to reserve price and the seller's approval.
00:43:32.373 -->
00:43:42.218Reserve prices in a lot of states don't mean a lot, because you're still going to seek your seller's approval, irrespective of where you get to, whether you're above it, below it or at it, as it may be.
00:43:42.218 -->
00:43:50.276Look out, advice around reserves to sellers is always the fact that, look, most sellers will set an aspirational reserve.
00:43:50.276 -->
00:44:06.199What you need to be is courageously uncomfortable with your reserve, to set it at a figure that you're not over the moon that you would sell it for, but you would sell it at that because that just allows that if we have a momentum-based auction, we can get the property on the market quickly and allow that momentum to carry it away.
00:44:06.199 -->
00:44:09.677We don't prematurely call things on the market either.
00:44:09.677 -->
00:44:15.061We will call it on the market when it's appropriate to, and it's best strategy to, not the moment we hit a reserve.
00:44:15.061 -->
00:44:18.059There's a very clear distinction around that.
00:44:18.059 -->
00:44:22.717What a lot of sellers will do is they'll think, oh, we're setting a really high reserve, we can always come down on the day.
00:44:22.717 -->
00:44:25.238What they're doing is deferring their decision-making to the day.
00:44:25.829 -->
00:44:34.001The problem with doing that is that what can happen is you have an auction, you have some competitive bidding, you pull up at the level that the reserve probably should have been, but it's not because it's aspirational.
00:44:34.001 -->
00:44:35.576You go inside and speak to the owner.
00:44:35.576 -->
00:44:40.501You spend 15 minutes getting the reserve down to the level that it should have been initially.
00:44:40.501 -->
00:44:45.515You walk back outside and it's like trying to jumpstart a car the energy's gone out of it.
00:44:45.515 -->
00:44:52.539You may start again, but if it does, it's probably not going to run at full capacity and you lost that momentum which is most important to critical auction.
00:44:52.539 -->
00:44:56.157There's a large degree of trust when it comes to reserve sets.
00:44:56.157 -->
00:45:14.139The seller has to trust the agent and the agent has to trust us that the communication lines are going to stay open and we'll use it as a strategy, not just to basically hey, they've set a reserve million dollars, we've got two million dollars, let's just sell it and pack up and go home.
00:45:14.179 -->
00:45:15.463That's a very short choice.
00:45:15.463 -->
00:45:17.677I think there's a real gold in that for sure.
00:45:18.010 -->
00:45:41.135There needs to be some trust that you're able to demonstrate to your clients that you said look, here was a reserve, we set it a million, but we ended up at 1.13, or here's a reserve, we set it 2.2, because the fear that all vendors would have is the incentive for the agent to drop the hammer early is greater than the, because you're getting a percentage of every thousand dollars over.
00:45:41.135 -->
00:45:50.677It's a lot of money to the seller and not so much to the agent once they get to their core price.
00:45:50.677 -->
00:45:56.041I think for you I'd imagine there's a lot of demonstrating hey, we called it here, but we got this.
00:45:56.041 -->
00:45:58.778We called it here but we got this, just to give them that confidence.
00:45:59.371 -->
00:46:05.210Yeah, we have one like this last week and I won't reveal what the reserve was, but we had four down registered bidders.
00:46:05.210 -->
00:46:08.259It was a really, really landmark property up on the Gold Coast.
00:46:08.259 -->
00:46:09.954It's Queensland's most viewed property.
00:46:09.954 -->
00:46:14.557For three weeks we call the property on the market at 7.0 million and 50,.
00:46:14.557 -->
00:46:16.961Eventual sale process 7.3.
00:46:16.961 -->
00:46:20.256Our reserve was significantly, significantly lower than that.
00:46:23.269 -->
00:46:24.780The agent had come to me early in the auction.
00:46:24.780 -->
00:46:25.747He'd checked with the owner.
00:46:25.747 -->
00:46:29.320The owner had said, yet called on me to ready, he'd let me know that, but we didn't need to.
00:46:29.320 -->
00:46:35.436There was no need to prematurely call on the market in that instance, because calling on the market is a tool to elect more bidding.
00:46:35.436 -->
00:46:40.179No use using that tool prematurely, like keeping your back pocket until you need it.
00:46:40.179 -->
00:46:40.640You need to.
00:46:42.452 -->
00:46:53.101That's how you demonstrate that the great thing about that seller was that the seller originally wanted to set his reserve at 7, but we explained the benefit of setting it at a much lower level.
00:46:53.101 -->
00:46:57.242He was in sales and he understood it and he said, yep, well, I trust you guys.
00:46:57.242 -->
00:46:58.769I trust you're going to come and talk to me.
00:46:58.769 -->
00:47:00.422I trust that you're saying the right thing.
00:47:00.422 -->
00:47:01.470You won't call on prematurely.
00:47:01.470 -->
00:47:06.041So let's set it at the low level, which he did, and it played out perfectly.
00:47:06.041 -->
00:47:15.170So if he'd set a reserve of eight, for example, that auction would have pulled up, would have had to stop converse and unquestionably would have sold it for less.
00:47:15.170 -->
00:47:17.336So, yeah, it is about trust.
00:47:17.336 -->
00:47:20.693So much of it's about trust when it comes to bidding strategies.
00:47:20.693 -->
00:47:27.525I could do this for an hour talk about bidding strategies, but we actually just released a video on our website around.
00:47:27.525 -->
00:47:30.134It's a five or six minute video around different bidding strategies.
00:47:30.134 -->
00:47:32.800You're having to share if that's a value to your listeners.
00:47:33.570 -->
00:47:37.641It talks about what we see in the top five tips to bidding and winning an auction.
00:47:37.641 -->
00:47:52.942I know people are not inclined to take my advice but because they think I work for the seller, which I absolutely do but I also say I'm not compensated on the outcome, so I've got no skin in this game that I desperately need to buy and buy it to get paid.
00:47:52.942 -->
00:48:00.555I just see buyers from time to time make common mistakes or common good strategy players to actually secure properties.
00:48:00.555 -->
00:48:04.378The first one that we say that's so important is have a strategy.
00:48:04.378 -->
00:48:12.378If you go in without a strategy you'll just get swallowed up and you'll go kind of what happened and it'll all be a horrible experience for you.
00:48:12.378 -->
00:48:29.238This is a really big deal when you buy a property, like in the terms of the most stressful things in your life, I think the number one is probably the death of someone close to you or a family member, then it's probably having a child, then it's probably getting married or getting divorced and then below that it's buying a home or selling a home.
00:48:29.238 -->
00:48:32.818So the terms of stressful environments, it's right up there.
00:48:32.818 -->
00:48:34.394Don't leave it to chance.
00:48:34.394 -->
00:48:36.669It's not a strategy.
00:48:36.669 -->
00:48:38.556And seeing back and waiting is not a strategy.
00:48:38.556 -->
00:48:42.038It's like trying to win the lotto without buying a ticket.
00:48:42.038 -->
00:48:43.597It can't work.
00:48:43.597 -->
00:48:46.077It just cannot work, so don't do it.
00:48:47.613 -->
00:48:53.172One of my favorite statistics around this is that 68% of times the opening bidder buys the property.
00:48:53.172 -->
00:49:06.693So wholly and solely my place in the first bid, you put yourself in the majority chance to buy it, rather than minority, because that buys usually either the most aggressive, the most confident, or they're acting like it.
00:49:06.693 -->
00:49:12.155So don't be afraid to start the bidding, because what happens is two things.
00:49:12.155 -->
00:49:16.000One is that you get your nerves out because you've done the unknown.
00:49:16.000 -->
00:49:18.675Now You've placed your opening bid, you're often, often, going.
00:49:18.675 -->
00:49:24.875The second thing is your best chance of buying that property for as cheap as possible is by limiting your competition.
00:49:24.875 -->
00:49:29.961So by bidding you intimidate your competition and they may then get frightened and back off.
00:49:29.961 -->
00:49:37.213If you wait, all you do is give them a free swing to get comfortable and confident, which is going to push the price up.
00:49:37.213 -->
00:49:40.055So that's the starting spot.
00:49:40.175 -->
00:49:41.318We talked about three figures.
00:49:41.318 -->
00:49:43.615You go into an auction, there should be three figures in your mind.
00:49:43.615 -->
00:49:45.755The first one is your dream figure.
00:49:45.755 -->
00:49:48.017So that's the price that you don't think you'll buy for there.
00:49:48.017 -->
00:49:53.478But you'll be over the moon if you're bored of that number, and that might be the number that you start off at to get things going.
00:49:53.478 -->
00:50:04.059The next number is the fair number, so that's where, based upon research, recent sales valuations, whatever else it might be, that's the number that you think it would likely sell for.
00:50:04.059 -->
00:50:10.095And then the last one is the absolute, which is your number, where, if it goes a dollar more than that, you are tapped out.
00:50:10.095 -->
00:50:16.550And then, as soon as you have those three numbers, just build your strategy inside of those three numbers and execute there.
00:50:16.550 -->
00:50:21.135And if it goes beyond your absolute, then that's what happens, like, but at least you've tried.
00:50:21.135 -->
00:50:25.111If you go in and go, what is going to wait and wait and wait, and wait and wait and wait what?
00:50:25.131 -->
00:50:26.878all traditionally happened is you'll wait for the perfect time.
00:50:26.878 -->
00:50:27.593It'll never happen.
00:50:27.593 -->
00:50:30.777You'll hand your paddle back at the end of the auction and kind of go what happened?
00:50:31.479 -->
00:50:35.938Yeah, so you said you could go on for hours and you've got five.
00:50:35.938 -->
00:50:40.922Give us, give us another one, so we can give the audience a little insight there too.
00:50:40.922 -->
00:50:42.296So the first one's have a strategy.
00:50:42.296 -->
00:50:43.052What's the second one?
00:50:43.814 -->
00:50:45.298I'm going to have to go with memory here.
00:50:45.298 -->
00:50:55.698I don't remember all five, I'll have to refer to the video, but we had a property recently that we bid on and we try to put as much of this strategy in a plan happened to about that experience as well.
00:50:55.698 -->
00:50:59.980But the biggest one, I think the most advanced advantage strategy is bidding quickly.
00:50:59.980 -->
00:51:07.735So if you were to do nothing else, just bid quickly, and it doesn't have to be ginormous amounts, it doesn't have to be, you know, huge increments.
00:51:07.735 -->
00:51:09.961But bidding quickly does two things.
00:51:09.961 -->
00:51:13.077Number one, it gives the impression that you're not going to stop.
00:51:13.077 -->
00:51:16.798You just not even phased about what's going on.
00:51:16.798 -->
00:51:22.869You're bidding quickly which can send an impression to everyone else like, hey, they just want this, they're not going to stop.
00:51:22.869 -->
00:51:26.780The second thing it does is it pushes the decisions onto the other party.
00:51:27.670 -->
00:51:29.798So everyone's stressed at auctions.
00:51:29.798 -->
00:51:32.739You know, agents are stressed, sellers are stressed, buyers are stressed.
00:51:32.739 -->
00:51:37.797Even when I was bidding in auction, I feel like I've been around more auctions the most I was stressed bidding in an auction.
00:51:37.797 -->
00:51:42.713So someone that does it for the first time or doesn't want to be seven years, of course the stress levels are going to be high.
00:51:42.713 -->
00:51:50.771The person who's under the least amount of stress, or the buyer who's under the least amount of stress during an auction is the highest bidder, because they're already in front.
00:51:50.771 -->
00:51:55.961So everyone else has to do something else to change that positioning.
00:51:55.961 -->
00:52:01.602So spend as much time in the least stressful position as you can and put the stress back on everyone else.
00:52:01.910 -->
00:52:07.777So what that looks like is that if you get into a bidding war with somebody else, you know they're talking about oh, should we bid, Should we not be?
00:52:07.777 -->
00:52:12.481You're talking at the same time with your partner or, internally, you know, if they bid, I'm going to bid.
00:52:12.481 -->
00:52:14.957And they go okay, 50, bank 50.
00:52:14.957 -->
00:52:16.994The decision's back on them again.
00:52:16.994 -->
00:52:19.536They're like, oh gee, should we bid, Should we not bid?
00:52:19.536 -->
00:52:21.099And you're talking about the same time Should we not bid?
00:52:21.099 -->
00:52:24.604Okay, we'll go one more, 50, bank, 50.
00:52:24.604 -->
00:52:25.492Back onto them again.
00:52:26.070 -->
00:52:31.432So the decision just continually puts back on their shoulders and that stress can become overpowering.
00:52:31.432 -->
00:52:33.338Where they feel like, A, he's not stopping.
00:52:33.338 -->
00:52:37.941B you know we're sick of this stress and having to decide every time.
00:52:37.941 -->
00:52:41.980We'll just tap out, or they'll do what you want as a buyer, which is they'll weaken their number.
00:52:41.980 -->
00:52:44.316Oh well, we'll go 10.
00:52:44.316 -->
00:52:51.721That's like putting a big bit of blood in front of a great white right, Like if someone goes 10, you know you should just be on that straightaway.
00:52:51.721 -->
00:52:59.356Like just chew that up and stick with your 50, you know 50, and then they're just like, oh well, yeah, this is never going to end, and then they might just bow out.
00:52:59.356 -->
00:53:01.876So, yeah, the best advice would be quickly.
00:53:01.876 -->
00:53:02.760That's the biggest one.
00:53:03.692 -->
00:53:10.077Well, as a buyer's agent, I would agree with that and I see that quite often, and all of what you said is true.
00:53:10.077 -->
00:53:18.773But as a buyer's agent, I'm like it actually gives me a ton of intel on them because you know, as you say, the stress position.
00:53:18.773 -->
00:53:21.640I want to know what's happening to them under the stress position.
00:53:21.640 -->
00:53:22.702They're looking at each other.
00:53:22.702 -->
00:53:24.056I want to know those sideward looks.
00:53:24.056 -->
00:53:26.599I want to know when they're getting close to their upper limit.
00:53:26.599 -->
00:53:32.262I'm actually using that as a strategic advantage to try and get inside their head, which ordinarily I can't.
00:53:32.262 -->
00:53:35.960So, hey, listen, as a buyer's agent, I love to stand at the front.
00:53:35.960 -->
00:53:40.160I love to stand on one of the auctioneer's shoulders so I can actually see what you see.
00:53:40.160 -->
00:53:45.001How do you feel about buyers and their positions and their preferred positions?
00:53:45.001 -->
00:53:46.315Is that annoying to you?
00:53:47.753 -->
00:53:54.736Well, I've got personal space issues, bryce, so definitely would make me uncomfortable to cheer for I'll explain the shoulder.
00:53:55.510 -->
00:53:56.756I'm 10 metres away from you.
00:53:56.756 -->
00:53:59.820I'm not sitting in your pocket, but I actually want to see the POV that you have.
00:53:59.820 -->
00:54:01.275Is that how you feel about that?
00:54:02.070 -->
00:54:12.298Yeah, I think as a buyer, you want as much data around your decision making as you can, and if you can't see the other buyers, you're lacking a really crucial part, because you reference to their earlier Bryce, and it's so true.
00:54:12.298 -->
00:54:17.014There's so many triggers that people give off that can tell whether they're going to keep going or not.
00:54:17.014 -->
00:54:19.675You want to be watching those triggers.
00:54:19.675 -->
00:54:21.737So, as an auctioneer, I'm watching them for various things.
00:54:21.737 -->
00:54:30.459A big one for me is that if we're starting to go and I can see someone starting to fidget with their paddle, or they look for their paddle, that's an indication they're likely to bid again.
00:54:30.459 -->
00:54:34.858There's the one where they put the brochure up to cover their mouth.
00:54:34.858 -->
00:54:38.137Like the American Gridiron coach, they put it up to cover their conversation.
00:54:38.137 -->
00:54:40.970As soon as you're having any conversation, the game's over.
00:54:40.970 -->
00:54:43.940I know that you're talking about whether you're going to re-engage or not.
00:54:43.940 -->
00:54:47.780I know you're not putting it up there to say, gee, this auctioneer is bloody good, isn't he?
00:54:47.780 -->
00:54:50.637I know that the conversation is around your bidding strategy.
00:54:50.637 -->
00:54:53.346So I want to get as much.
00:54:53.487 -->
00:54:55.876As an auctioneer, I want as much of that data as I can.
00:54:55.876 -->
00:55:00.155As a buyer, you should be trying to do that as well, so I positioned.
00:55:00.155 -->
00:55:08.663If it was me, and when we said we did this position, I said we'd line aside on a side where you can look back across the whole crowd to see what's going on.
00:55:08.663 -->
00:55:20.423Elevation is always good as a buyer as well, because elevation gives you a better bird's eye view of everything and also it just allows you to evaluate the situation all the way throughout.
00:55:20.423 -->
00:55:25.896So look, I think from your perspective as a buyer's agent, you've got invested interest where you want to secure it for your client.
00:55:25.896 -->
00:55:29.679Any advantage you can have inside the scope of the law you should be taking that.
00:55:29.679 -->
00:55:30.842Yeah, absolutely.
00:55:32.092 -->
00:55:34.717I do not want my competition to be a mystery to them.
00:55:34.717 -->
00:55:35.499I need to know that.
00:55:35.499 -->
00:55:39.195I need to see their eyeballs, I need to know who they are, I need to know what the conversation is they're having.
00:55:39.195 -->
00:55:51.559So if we pivot to memorable auctions, justin two that I want to flag with you the largest we talked about before we recorded, so it'd be nice to talk to that for our audience.
00:55:51.559 -->
00:55:57.794So the largest price you've received and the most bizarre or interesting auction that you've experienced.
00:55:58.692 -->
00:56:02.221You know, probably both of these are inside the last six weeks.
00:56:02.221 -->
00:56:06.919That could just be because my memory is terrible, so maybe that's my point of reference is the last couple of months.
00:56:06.919 -->
00:56:12.681But the largest one is the one that we just saw recently for 24.8 million under the hammer.
00:56:12.681 -->
00:56:24.143That probably was in Southport, a McMillan court, not a traditionally amazing auction where huge bidding war broke out, so on and so forth.
00:56:24.143 -->
00:56:28.981What we had is really one party, that it was a negotiation to sort of get them to the right position.
00:56:28.981 -->
00:56:30.896It took some time but it got there eventually.
00:56:30.896 -->
00:56:32.535So that was very rewarding.
00:56:32.535 -->
00:56:49.936From that, it was also rewarding because our company, one of our team, had broken the record about three weeks before, four weeks before 24 million, so to be able to sort of nick it back you know, the record back gave me a lot of firepower and ammunition to be able to fire back at him.
00:56:51.211 -->
00:56:57.554So that was probably personally rewarding the craziest auction.
00:56:57.554 -->
00:57:02.931I reckon we had one about three or four weeks ago Now.
00:57:02.931 -->
00:57:10.403It was a property interest me and the owner bravely decided to run a no reserve auction.
00:57:10.403 -->
00:57:13.137And it had been some years since I've done a no reserve auction.
00:57:13.137 -->
00:57:17.394I didn't feel at the start of my career but it's been some years because it's a big leap of faith to do that.
00:57:17.394 -->
00:57:23.536You know you kind of go straight to the worst case scenario, which is that it could be selling my property for a dollar or a thousand dollars.
00:57:23.536 -->
00:57:26.356But we've got to say the market always catches you.
00:57:26.356 -->
00:57:30.499So this property interest me had been destroyed by squatters.
00:57:30.499 -->
00:57:32.073And I say destroyed.
00:57:32.073 -->
00:57:32.856It was destroyed.
00:57:32.970 -->
00:57:36.478It might have been the worst home that I've ever been in in terms of its condition internally.
00:57:36.478 -->
00:57:37.922Walls ripped out.
00:57:37.922 -->
00:57:39.514Like we caught an open plan because you could.
00:57:39.514 -->
00:57:43.438There wasn't a wall so you could literally see the whole house from from there.
00:57:43.438 -->
00:57:45.273There was no back door.
00:57:45.273 -->
00:57:49.740So you know Breeze is easily coming through because there's no back door.
00:57:49.740 -->
00:57:52.237So they launched with a no reserve auction.
00:57:52.237 -->
00:57:58.499They called it Queensland's worst house and no reserve auction Really brilliant marketing strategy that the agent and the agency put into place.
00:57:58.499 -->
00:58:03.559We were met on the day with 161 registered bidders for this auction.
00:58:03.559 -->
00:58:08.501So 161 registered bidders couldn't park within a kilometer of the home.
00:58:08.501 -->
00:58:10.202Like there was no car parks.
00:58:10.202 -->
00:58:16.420Every news, every news crew was there A few hundred people, they'd run a sausage sizzle for the local lions.
00:58:17.070 -->
00:58:19.316Like they'd done a really good job, marketing it.
00:58:20.778 -->
00:58:24.278Popcorn was there, like it was a really like kind of a carnival atmosphere.
00:58:24.278 -->
00:58:33.420Valuation I think it come in pre-oction around the 400, from my understanding and we opened up the dollar bid, as you kind of do.
00:58:33.420 -->
00:58:44.181So someone bid a dollar, so we're, we're on the market immediately at a dollar, straight away, and eventually it sold for $494,700.
00:58:44.181 -->
00:58:54.202And the funny thing was the under bidder was the $1 bidder, so he started a dollar and he was out at four, nine, four and a half basically.
00:58:54.751 -->
00:59:07.340So, but it was just it was crazy Like sea of people, bids coming in, bids coming in from all angles, like TV cameras in the way, like it was just a real kind of circus and bizarre auction.
00:59:07.340 -->
00:59:12.316And it's funny because you know you do that auction and it's such a, you know, adrenaline rush and it's it's going.
00:59:12.316 -->
00:59:14.206Then you drive to your next one an hour later.
00:59:14.206 -->
00:59:19.852And then that one, there was 10 people there and one bidder and so they would get over life right, Like you know.
00:59:19.852 -->
00:59:23.422And funny, that one at Macmillan, macmillan court, $24.8 million.
00:59:23.422 -->
00:59:27.210The one I did after that was a unit at the back of Ashmore for $420,000.
00:59:27.210 -->
00:59:27.856Got paid the same.
00:59:27.856 -->
00:59:33.141So I started to do my job equally as well at both of them.
00:59:33.141 -->
00:59:36.419But yeah, just part of the quirk of being an auctioneer, I suppose.
00:59:37.250 -->
00:59:40.544So does that help with the emotion of your craft?
00:59:40.544 -->
00:59:47.730Then, because that's interesting, right, you go to a 24.8 and you just said I get paid the same at the 24.8 that I do for the one in Ashmore.
00:59:47.730 -->
00:59:52.106It's probably unique for you because I'm I'm interested to know.
00:59:52.106 -->
00:59:54.133I personally haven't turned up to an auction.
00:59:54.133 -->
00:59:57.532That 24 million, so what, what?
00:59:57.532 -->
00:59:58.355What are like?
00:59:58.355 -->
01:00:02.233It's not like you've got your typical buyer, I mean, are they?
01:00:02.233 -->
01:00:09.036Is there any nuances that that people wouldn't understand that you have to deal with bidders?
01:00:09.036 -->
01:00:11.798It sounds like you only had one or two right that 24.8?
01:00:11.798 -->
01:00:11.798.
01:00:12.130 -->
01:00:13.936Yeah, they're pretty, they're pretty similar.
01:00:13.936 -->
01:00:16.380The two biggest differences we're doing prestige stuff.
01:00:16.380 -->
01:00:18.390We've been lucky enough to do a bit of prestige stuff this year.
01:00:18.390 -->
01:00:25.661We've had a couple in the sort of 13 to 15 million bracket as well, quite a few in the sort of six to 10 bracket.
01:00:25.661 -->
01:00:27.108There's two big nuances.
01:00:27.108 -->
01:00:34.023The first one is is that the there's much more secrecy around the kind of higher end stuff.
01:00:34.023 -->
01:00:40.396So quite often if we talk to media, which we do a lot, we've got to be a little more careful around what we disclose.
01:00:40.396 -->
01:00:48.459We very rarely, if heaven, will, disclose who the buyer was that's not a place to do that who the seller was, like all those circumstances there.
01:00:48.459 -->
01:00:56.340You know you'll get the campaign reports and you'll recognize a few names in there looking at what a property like you know and but you just, you just have to sort of put in the vault.
01:00:56.789 -->
01:01:02.998So, whereas in the lower end properties, no one really kind of cares who the seller of the buyer is really and what your time.
01:01:02.998 -->
01:01:10.256The biggest difference, though, as we've found, is that with traditional auctions, most people stop bidding because they run out of money.
01:01:10.829 -->
01:01:29.898So the underbidder will stop because they just simply can't afford it or their approval is to a certain number With higher end auctions and high net worth individuals, is the underbidder's traditionally stopped because they don't want it enough, and that's a really small difference, but it's a really large when it when it comes to engaging with people.
01:01:29.898 -->
01:01:35.300So when someone is out because they can't afford it, they're out and there's no nuance to that.
01:01:35.300 -->
01:01:39.271Like we buy this, we can't afford to settle, like that's a pretty.
01:01:39.271 -->
01:01:46.701When someone is out because they don't want it enough, it's then trying to appeal to the fact that, hey, you might be able to find another one.
01:01:46.701 -->
01:01:48.356Here's the unique selling points of it.
01:01:48.356 -->
01:01:50.074Here's what drew you in the first place.
01:01:50.074 -->
01:01:51.557Those kinds of things.
01:01:51.557 -->
01:01:52.902There's a bit more subtlety to that.
01:01:52.902 -->
01:01:54.253So that's probably the biggest difference.
01:01:54.693 -->
01:01:57.421But we, we maintain look, we get, we get paid the same.
01:01:57.421 -->
01:02:00.258It's the same with the 8am auction versus the 6 30pm auction.
01:02:00.258 -->
01:02:05.340The vendor who's paying me at 8am is, you know, paying me the same as the vendor at 6 30.
01:02:05.340 -->
01:02:10.780So I'm going to have the same energy, mindset, approach, focus, determination for all of them.
01:02:10.780 -->
01:02:12.890I can't just think, oh, I had a big day.
01:02:12.890 -->
01:02:16.876So I'll just take it a little bit easier on this one, because they're paying the same as what someone was first up in the morning.
01:02:17.650 -->
01:02:24.972Justin, you've given an awesome insight into the buying decision behavior, just in sort of high net worth versus.
01:02:24.972 -->
01:02:27.480You know that affordability story at the lower end.
01:02:27.480 -->
01:02:52.382Take us through when, when an auction is passed in, that's ultimately where you've got to keep tension on the sale through your underbitter, and obviously the person who is the highest bidder gets the opportunity, the first opportunity, to say no, right, so their job is to slow down their decisions and know as much as possible to cool off and hopefully bring the underbitter into a rational mindset that says no, I don't really need it as much.
01:02:52.382 -->
01:03:03.079So take us through that art form in terms of how quickly you need to try and move to get the, to get the highest bidder to a no, because that's the legal obligation you need to do versus.
01:03:03.079 -->
01:03:07.719Obviously you know trying to keep that underbitter interested so you can keep the price moving higher.
01:03:09.088 -->
01:03:12.180Yeah, and this is one of the quirks of not having national legislation.
01:03:12.180 -->
01:03:15.597So what you described there is is completely true.
01:03:15.597 -->
01:03:19.608In New South Wales, Victoria as well, Queensland there's no first rights negotiate for the high speeder.
01:03:20.112 -->
01:03:22.262So the second that we yeah, the second we pass in.
01:03:22.262 -->
01:03:26.523In Queensland it's open slather for every party to throw whatever they like in it.
01:03:26.523 -->
01:03:31.780Whether they be high speed or under bidder, subject to sale person, everyone gets equal rights at that point in time.
01:03:31.780 -->
01:03:38.976So I guess it probably makes it a little bit simpler, particularly in those states that do have it is you sort of can really paint to the buyer.
01:03:38.976 -->
01:03:40.519Your window is now.
01:03:40.519 -->
01:03:44.787You either buy it or you walk away and don't look back because you're in that window.
01:03:44.787 -->
01:03:47.517Now why would you want to sacrifice that window and then try and buy it?
01:03:47.517 -->
01:03:59.596And that's why in every state we we try and pause auctions to make a negotiation happen rather than pass them in and make one happen behind closed doors, because it also protects the seller with the contract terms.
01:03:59.596 -->
01:04:06.918So in Queensland you can negotiate with any registered bidder for two business days after the auction, but the buyers aren't obliged to do that.
01:04:06.918 -->
01:04:14.750So if you're a savvy buyer in Queensland, if you were negotiating during auction and it passes in, if you're smart, you'll walk up and say how am I going to continue negotiation?
01:04:14.750 -->
01:04:18.476But I want to cool him off period in the contract now and you can legally do that.
01:04:18.670 -->
01:04:21.919So yeah, in New South Wales it's a little bit different because of that positioning.
01:04:21.919 -->
01:04:28.335What we say is we've already revealed in most of the time the negotiation, that number that will buy the property to the highest bidder.
01:04:28.335 -->
01:04:29.720They've already declined that.
01:04:29.720 -->
01:04:40.280Go and have that conversation again because it's an official one, and just understand that if their answer is anything other than yes, their first ride is over and then we can take it out to the masses.
01:04:40.280 -->
01:04:45.582So yeah, it's funny, we'd call auctions in Coolinganna and the border of Coolinganna and Tweed Head.
01:04:45.582 -->
01:04:49.592So we'll do bigger events where three of them are Queensland, two of them are New South Wales.
01:04:49.592 -->
01:04:56.539You're sort of oscillating between one vendor bid, multiple vendor bids, no rights to negotiate first rights to negotiate price guides no price guides.
01:04:56.539 -->
01:05:01.139I think the day we all have national legislation will be a big win for everybody, I reckon.
01:05:01.599 -->
01:05:03.363Wouldn't it be it would be.
01:05:04.472 -->
01:05:05.336It would be indeed yeah.
01:05:06.390 -->
01:05:06.954We're about to.
01:05:06.954 -->
01:05:15.157We're getting very close, because we're going to do a role play where you're actually going to swap hats and you're going to take your auctioneers hat off and you're going to buy your buyers, put your buyers hat on.
01:05:15.157 -->
01:05:22.103So we'll get to that shortly, but before we do, the last question in this lane for me is technology Online bidding platforms.
01:05:22.103 -->
01:05:25.820Obviously, there was a way that you had to pivot through COVID.
01:05:25.820 -->
01:05:28.235Now everyone can come back on site.
01:05:28.235 -->
01:05:38.104What role do you think online bidding platforms are going to play in a non-pandemic way going forward?
01:05:38.104 -->
01:05:48.360Do you think that the art of trying to get people on site is always going to be the preferred method, or do you think that more and more auctions will go online?
01:05:49.472 -->
01:05:54.503Yeah, I think the pandemic dragged us kicking and screaming into the 21st century.
01:05:54.503 -->
01:06:01.903Like we were really archaic with what we were doing with technology, like even to a point where our registration forms are still on paper.
01:06:01.903 -->
01:06:12.829We had handled a plastic paddle, like taking away the damage to the planet, like those things are pretty basic right, like that's kind of original, kind of 1960s, 1970s operations.
01:06:12.829 -->
01:06:17.662So the pandemic definitely brought us kicking and screaming into the 21st century.
01:06:17.662 -->
01:06:20.358I think the biggest direction now is the provision of choice.
01:06:20.358 -->
01:06:24.460So in a world where we can choose how we do most things.
01:06:24.460 -->
01:06:29.294So if you want to go, if you're not going to Woolies, you order online and Woolies you get them to come to you.
01:06:29.294 -->
01:06:31.996Like 10 years ago that would have been a novel concept.
01:06:31.996 -->
01:06:33.039You know to do that.
01:06:33.039 -->
01:06:34.974You don't want to go down to the restaurant?
01:06:34.974 -->
01:06:37.595That's okay, you order, you bring it to the restaurant, we'll come to you.
01:06:37.595 -->
01:06:39.550So we've got to.
01:06:39.550 -->
01:06:50.898I think we've got to be more versatile around that and acknowledge to buyers and say, okay, we're going to try and work with you around the way that you want to consume this auction, either as a buyer or as a spectator.
01:06:51.510 -->
01:06:52.996So on-site auctions are great.
01:06:52.996 -->
01:06:54.394Everyone always says about the auction.
01:06:54.394 -->
01:06:55.438On-site is great.
01:06:55.438 -->
01:06:56.512It's the emotional buyer.
01:06:56.512 -->
01:06:58.358But there's drawbacks to on-site auctions.
01:06:58.358 -->
01:07:06.416On-site auctions you open the weather conditions wind, rain, extreme sun You're open to neighborhood disputes.
01:07:06.416 -->
01:07:13.175So the neighbor next door who decides to it's the appropriate time to clean his Harley or get his chainsaw out.
01:07:13.175 -->
01:07:15.180That happens more times than you'd think.
01:07:15.180 -->
01:07:24.172The dog behind the little yappy dog who doesn't like the fact there's 40 people in the backyard and the other one starts barking all the way through the auction, which creates doubt and the mind of the buyers.
01:07:24.172 -->
01:07:25.737And I don't know what you're dealing with that every day.
01:07:26.950 -->
01:07:30.019There's all these factors that come into play when you're not in a controlled environment.
01:07:30.019 -->
01:07:39.278In-room auctions give you control, but you lose the neighbors attending Neighbors aren't going to give their car a drive to an RSL to go watch it.
01:07:39.278 -->
01:07:43.459And then you've got the pure online auctions, which some people have adopted.
01:07:43.459 -->
01:07:53.296Pure online auctions give you total control, but we preach auctions are about engaging the community in transparency, and it probably runs away from those two things.
01:07:53.296 -->
01:07:57.039So I think the best solution is provision of choice.
01:07:57.390 -->
01:08:15.276So if we want to do this auction on-site, or in-rooms for that matter, that's great, but we're also going to stream it and we're going to distribute that link out to the neighbors and to the people so that if they feel like, hey, you know what, I don't really want to walk down the street today and watch it, I'm just going to sit on my couch and watch the auction they can still have the same experience to do that.
01:08:15.276 -->
01:08:25.114And the buyer doesn't want to be present because they don't trust themselves emotionally or they feel like they're in a stressful environment, that they can watch it and then bid over the telephone.
01:08:25.114 -->
01:08:29.320So they're not penalized for not being there, but they can still participate.
01:08:29.320 -->
01:08:31.216So for me, it just comes back to choice.
01:08:31.216 -->
01:08:33.917Let's give everyone as much choice as we can.
01:08:33.917 -->
01:08:35.198We're now living a world of choice.
01:08:35.198 -->
01:08:37.954Let's not be the archaic ones that aren't giving anyone choice.
01:08:38.936 -->
01:08:39.198Nice.
01:08:39.198 -->
01:08:40.680All right, we're going to pivot, mate.
01:08:40.680 -->
01:08:42.889We're going to ask you to take off your auctioneer's hat.
01:08:42.889 -->
01:08:53.733We're going to take off your being on the side of the seller's hat and where this is the conversation that I framed up with you before this chat, justin and you said you were keen to play.
01:08:53.733 -->
01:09:00.056Your wife pulled and I know it's a recent lived experience for you, so we're excited about this but your wife pulls you aside.
01:09:00.056 -->
01:09:03.217She says this is the property.
01:09:03.217 -->
01:09:10.917Whatever you do, I know you're a legend in your field, mate, I know you've got all this, but whatever you do, do not miss it.
01:09:10.917 -->
01:09:15.257Do not miss this property, and you have to buy it at auction.
01:09:15.257 -->
01:09:16.301Talk us through.
01:09:16.301 -->
01:09:24.833You've told us that you'd have a strategy and you'd bid quickly, so tell us a couple of other things that you're going to do to make sure that you don't disappoint your wife and miss this property.
01:09:26.192 -->
01:09:26.833On this occasion.
01:09:26.833 -->
01:09:40.380I think firstly and this is the advice we give and I'll always have auctioneer's hat on, so even if it's a little small hat under my bigger buyer's hat, the auctioneer hat is kind of a fix to my head, so it's hard to read that one.
01:09:40.380 -->
01:09:48.701So pride comes before a fall, so don't let pride get in the way of you buying a property, and it happens all the time.
01:09:48.701 -->
01:09:53.775So that can be ego, that can be lack of understanding, that can be wanting to win at all costs.
01:09:53.775 -->
01:09:57.679We say that there's kind of two objectives, right.
01:09:57.679 -->
01:10:01.059So this, putting myself in that scenario, I've got two objectives walking to that auction.
01:10:01.059 -->
01:10:02.673Primary objective buy the property.
01:10:02.673 -->
01:10:08.234Secondary objective try and buy it for as cheaply as possible, Try and save as much money as I can.
01:10:08.234 -->
01:10:14.176Never let the secondary objective overtake the first one, and we see this with buyers a lot.
01:10:14.176 -->
01:10:22.177They'll walk in more paralyzed by the thought of, oh, I don't want to pay too much, than realizing that I actually got into the first thing, which is buy it.
01:10:22.177 -->
01:10:32.002Now, whether they like it or not, and whether I liked it or not and this is certainly my lived experience whether I like it or not, the seller has the asset that I want.
01:10:34.094 -->
01:10:36.079So we talk about negotiations in real estate.
01:10:36.079 -->
01:10:38.859So negotiations in real estate will be called a partially fixed negotiation.
01:10:38.859 -->
01:10:42.619So what I mean by that is, one side is fixed in what they're offering.
01:10:42.619 -->
01:10:44.534The other side is variable or partial.
01:10:44.534 -->
01:10:49.662So most negotiations are totally variable or negotiations.
01:10:49.662 -->
01:10:56.844So this party changes what they're offering and you go backwards and forwards In a negotiation between a seller and a buyer.
01:10:56.844 -->
01:10:58.289What the seller has doesn't change.
01:10:58.289 -->
01:11:00.130That stays consistent.
01:11:00.130 -->
01:11:05.970So I've got to understand and recognize that if I want to buy it, they have what I want.
01:11:05.970 -->
01:11:13.390Therefore, the owners is on me to satisfy them, not the other way around, Because they've already satisfied me by providing the property that I want.
01:11:13.390 -->
01:11:15.710I've got to satisfy them when it comes to price.
01:11:15.710 -->
01:11:22.400Now, yes, I'm going to try and work with them and yes, I'm going to try I'm going to try Australia to try and discover what their lowest price is, all that kind of stuff.
01:11:22.400 -->
01:11:28.298But the owners is on me to satisfy them Because if nothing changes, they continue to hold the asset that I wanted.
01:11:29.230 -->
01:11:31.177This is exactly what happened in our negotiation.
01:11:31.177 -->
01:11:32.949So we came into the auction.
01:11:32.949 -->
01:11:35.599So if you want me to step straight into it now, you've got another leading question.
01:11:35.599 -->
01:11:40.800But we came into an auction, we had a plan around figures that we would go to.
01:11:40.800 -->
01:11:56.498We'd done our ducks in a row with the bank, we hadn't had a huge amount of involvement throughout the campaign with the agents and probably, if I had my time again, we may have pushed harder to make an offer prior to the auction, Because I think offers prior to auction as a buyer are really valuable.
01:11:57.832 -->
01:12:00.983Most buyers want to keep their cards close to their chest.
01:12:00.983 -->
01:12:04.617I'm not going to tell the agent anything, Because if I show I'm keen, that'll be used against me.
01:12:04.617 -->
01:12:06.034It's actually the opposite.
01:12:06.034 -->
01:12:12.682So if you can make an offer A, it puts you in one A position for communication to run through you.
01:12:12.682 -->
01:12:15.198Secondly, the benefit of an offer is twofold.
01:12:15.198 -->
01:12:17.096Number one is you might buy it Great.
01:12:17.096 -->
01:12:30.976Number two is it may help the seller understand the market more, and the frustration we have a lot is that every buyer wants the seller to understand the market and be realistic and reasonable, but most of them don't want to play their part in doing that.
01:12:31.949 -->
01:12:33.715So I had a friend of mine.
01:12:33.715 -->
01:12:35.461I was on the phone once to a mate of mine.
01:12:35.461 -->
01:12:38.739I was complaining about the traffic, which is like a lived experience every day for me.
01:12:38.739 -->
01:12:40.958So I was complaining about the traffic between the Gold Coast and Brisbane.
01:12:40.958 -->
01:12:42.894I said, oh, this traffic so bad.
01:12:42.894 -->
01:12:44.518He said, aren't you in your car?
01:12:44.518 -->
01:12:46.261I said yeah, and he said well, you are the traffic.
01:12:46.261 -->
01:12:48.657I was like actually that's a really good point.
01:12:48.657 -->
01:12:54.954So this is what buyers have got to think is their job as the buyer is to get the seller to understand the market.
01:12:54.954 -->
01:13:03.078You're the market, so you need to show them the market or else they're not going to understand it because you haven't played your part in helping you understand it.
01:13:03.078 -->
01:13:09.936You can't sit back and hold your cards close to the chest and then blame them for not understanding the market when you haven't done your part in there.
01:13:09.936 -->
01:13:11.353So how much time again.
01:13:11.353 -->
01:13:13.940I probably would have made an offer prior to auction.
01:13:13.940 -->
01:13:17.779So good learning experience to sort of do for next time for that.
01:13:18.230 -->
01:13:19.996But we came into the auction ready to go.
01:13:19.996 -->
01:13:25.362I was going to start the bidding but someone beat me to the punch in starting it.
01:13:25.362 -->
01:13:29.581So obviously, listen to our video and took the advice on board.
01:13:29.581 -->
01:13:32.578But then I employed the bidding quickly strategy.
01:13:32.578 -->
01:13:35.076So they bid, we bid.
01:13:35.076 -->
01:13:37.672They then dropped out Someone else.
01:13:37.672 -->
01:13:40.400Bid, we bid, they bid, we bid.
01:13:40.400 -->
01:13:45.402And then I could see that they were having long family discussions around every bid.
01:13:45.402 -->
01:13:49.457So I just sort of said to my wife, like when is it going to keep going to a number?
01:13:49.457 -->
01:13:50.639You're good, yeah, we're fine.
01:13:50.639 -->
01:13:51.621And we just did that.
01:13:51.621 -->
01:13:53.423We ended up pulling a fair bit short of our number.
01:13:53.423 -->
01:13:54.432We're at paused.
01:13:56.190 -->
01:13:58.198We subsequently increased our offer during the auction.
01:13:58.198 -->
01:13:59.454Wasn't enough to buy it.
01:13:59.454 -->
01:14:13.738We then negotiated for a brief period, for a few days after the auction, but couldn't hit upon a number that appeased the sellers and therefore they exercised their rights to rent it out, which is entirely their rights.
01:14:13.738 -->
01:14:19.417Like I don't have any will towards them, If I was my property, I want to get as much as I can.
01:14:19.417 -->
01:14:27.359If I didn't hit that number, I'd exercise my plan B, Though they had the asset that we wanted the owners on us to appease them to get to the number.
01:14:27.359 -->
01:14:29.537We didn't want to do that or couldn't do that.
01:14:29.537 -->
01:14:31.636Therefore they retain the asset and that's fine.
01:14:31.636 -->
01:14:34.556So yeah, that's where I said I don't know where your definition of success is.
01:14:34.556 -->
01:14:35.500We were the highest bidder.
01:14:35.500 -->
01:14:42.399We were probably successful in some of the strategies we deployed, but not ultimately successful in that it's going to be our home.
01:14:42.399 -->
01:14:44.608So there you go.
01:14:45.070 -->
01:14:46.355So what's the next part of the story then?
01:14:46.355 -->
01:14:50.257Is it waiting for them to blink, or are you looking for another property?
01:14:52.150 -->
01:14:54.118To be continued is probably the next part of the story.
01:14:54.118 -->
01:14:56.217So we weren't really looking.
01:14:56.217 -->
01:14:59.637It just kind of ticked a lot of boxes for us at this point in time.
01:14:59.637 -->
01:15:07.563So we're probably now passive buyers that if the right one came up we might be ready to just sort of move.
01:15:07.563 -->
01:15:13.257Funny, my broker actually emailed me this morning and said hey, you want to keep this thing open and you know you always where there's life there's hope, right.
01:15:13.277 -->
01:15:14.399So just keep it open.
01:15:14.399 -->
01:15:15.440You never know, you never know.
01:15:15.440 -->
01:15:31.900But yeah, we're probably now more passive than what we were, so we'll probably sit and wait and they've put a tenant in for at least six to 12 months, so that'll probably defer a decision where they come back to the market at that point in time and whether we're still there and ready to go at that point in time.
01:15:31.900 -->
01:15:33.636So, yeah, to be continued.
01:15:33.636 -->
01:15:36.739So we'll see what the next, the sequel, is in the trilogy.
01:15:37.612 -->
01:15:53.251Well, you're the best type of buyer in terms of you're controlling the emotional element of that by being, you know, to your point, I'm not looking, but if something ticks a lot of our boxes then I can potentially move into the, into the go zone.
01:15:53.251 -->
01:16:00.163And to your point I mean, ultimately you were in total control of the outcome, other than paying a price.
01:16:00.163 -->
01:16:05.649You didn't feel like you know, coming back to your point before, I didn't need it that much.
01:16:05.649 -->
01:16:06.210You know what I mean.
01:16:06.210 -->
01:16:09.681Like you had a ceiling in terms of what that looked like, so.
01:16:09.681 -->
01:16:13.208So I think you know, from my point of view, that's.
01:16:13.208 -->
01:16:13.911That's the way.
01:16:14.351 -->
01:16:22.170As you get more settled in property and you go through this journey of decades like Bruce and I have, that's the type of buy you can become.
01:16:22.170 -->
01:16:23.907Like I'm not looking to move.
01:16:23.907 -->
01:16:34.148But I tell you what if one of those really great properties up the road comes up for sale, I'm going to, I'm just going to do a little bit of you know paperwork and and see what the numbers sort of suggest.
01:16:34.148 -->
01:16:50.059So we were looking, but you know, ultimately we might be in a position because any principal place of residence at home, I've got to tell you that's, that's a, that's a lovely asset to own, you know, from a capital gains point of view and also from a tax point of view as well.
01:16:50.059 -->
01:16:52.309Right, it's a great way to create wealth.
01:16:52.784 -->
01:17:10.619It also comes off the back of that, and you know we've learned that from some of the best agencies in New, and I say you know they just keep going back to their high new, high net worth individuals and they just they just buy these assets for 10 million 12 and they just know that in 10, 15 years time they're going to be selling them for 20 or 25, you know some of the easiest passive money they're ever going to make.
01:17:10.619 -->
01:17:13.512So I think you know there's some logic in.
01:17:13.512 -->
01:17:17.654You know that idea of always being open minded, which sounds like you are, justin.
01:17:17.654 -->
01:17:21.259So you know, to be continued, as you say.
01:17:21.520 -->
01:17:24.190Yeah, and I think I'd like to think I'm.
01:17:24.190 -->
01:17:27.779Most sellers dream by like I don't get paralyzed by paying too much.
01:17:27.779 -->
01:17:34.859I don't think I'd ever sit in the lounge room a month after the property settles and look at a view and go I wish I'd saved 50 grand here.
01:17:34.859 -->
01:17:41.859Like for me it's if you can afford to do it and you like it within reason, then do it and don't get paralyzed on there.
01:17:41.859 -->
01:17:43.779I don't have a typically around negotiation.
01:17:44.523 -->
01:17:52.693If I've, from being involved and exposed to so many negotiations it's taught me anything it's don't get so hell bent that you have to win a negotiation.
01:17:52.693 -->
01:17:54.340You know win, win is fine.
01:17:54.340 -->
01:17:57.400Like, if you have a win in the seller feels good about it, then that's OK too.
01:17:57.400 -->
01:18:06.140You don't need to leave the other person negotiation demoralized and you know bitter like that that's actually probably rarely a good long term strategy towards things.
01:18:06.140 -->
01:18:09.099So you know, wherever possible, be as open and sure as possible.
01:18:09.099 -->
01:18:13.849Be as open and transparent as you can Explain your reasoning and if it just doesn't work, it doesn't work.
01:18:13.849 -->
01:18:19.086But yeah, I think when you said this story before about you know my wife saying we've got to have this home.
01:18:19.086 -->
01:18:20.149It's actually the opposite price.
01:18:20.149 -->
01:18:21.618I'm more likely to be one to come home.
01:18:21.921 -->
01:18:24.269So I really want this and she'll get dragged along for the ride.
01:18:24.400 -->
01:18:26.268So yeah, we'll see.
01:18:26.560 -->
01:18:29.829Well, usually when there's a motion involved, there's always buyers regret.
01:18:29.829 -->
01:18:33.850There's going to be buyers regret with, now that we've got it, maybe we pay too much.
01:18:33.850 -->
01:18:35.806So you'll have that moment of buyers regret.
01:18:35.806 -->
01:18:40.845But on the other side of it, if you miss out, there will be that oh we missed it, I wish we had a got it.
01:18:40.845 -->
01:18:42.185There's this none.
01:18:42.185 -->
01:18:47.247You'll never have that equal playing ground in terms of when you're, when you've got an emotional attachment to an asset.
01:18:47.247 -->
01:18:48.725It's just just the way it's going to be.
01:18:49.900 -->
01:18:50.100Yes.
01:18:51.640 -->
01:18:54.248Well, justin, congratulations on a couple of things.
01:18:54.248 -->
01:18:57.789One is for getting the opportunity to speak at Eric this year.
01:18:57.789 -->
01:19:09.592So I've been going for the last decade, and so they don't invite people onto the stage who are not great at their craft, so that's a, that's a clue for the rise that you've had as a, as a practitioner.
01:19:09.592 -->
01:19:10.403So well done on that.
01:19:10.403 -->
01:19:35.127Congratulations on your, the business and the, the relationships that you've built to get yourself in the position that you're in and I guess, from our perspective, thanks for coming on and sharing some of the inside is insights to what it is to be on at the peak of the mountain for your craft and to get some insights for our, for our people on the buyer side, to have a have a view of what that looks like.
01:19:35.199 -->
01:19:55.859But I personally think that you're probably in one of the one of the best lanes of real estate in my view, because you get to, you get to do something that you love across a whole cross section of property types and building relationships.
01:19:55.859 -->
01:20:04.622So you don't necessarily have to be in the lounge rooms and doing the listing, presentations and some of the the big prospecting challenges that come to the agents of that level.
01:20:04.622 -->
01:20:10.760You just get to prospect to and build relationships with agents and then and then turn up on game day on Saturday.
01:20:10.760 -->
01:20:14.725So I think that's it's a real position I'm sure you're really grateful to be in.
01:20:14.725 -->
01:20:19.425But, on behalf of everyone here on the property catch, thanks for sharing your insights.
01:20:20.220 -->
01:20:21.524Yeah, thanks for guys, really enjoyed it.
01:20:22.306 -->
01:20:25.480Thanks, justin, you're through Well.
01:20:25.480 -->
01:20:36.329There you go, ben, some some very, very powerful insights from someone who is spending a lot of time dedicated to their craft and understanding what the game of auction auctioneering is.
01:20:36.329 -->
01:20:49.650But for our listeners, you got a very rare little insight there into what, what is going on on that side of the fence, so you can arm yourself better when you're bidding against a skilled auctioneer like Justin Ben.
01:20:50.421 -->
01:20:51.284Oh, just terrific.
01:20:51.284 -->
01:21:06.574I mean, ultimately I could listen to Justin quite a lot because I think he's he's very comfortable, he's he speaks well and he's not trying to make it something that it's not like he's not trying to be a hype merchant.
01:21:06.574 -->
01:21:15.319So, yeah, you've really got an insider's view there on the art of auctioning and how that plays out, and and from both sides of the fence.
01:21:15.319 -->
01:21:20.391So I found that to be a wonderful insight and I'll certainly be listening again.
01:21:20.391 -->
01:21:25.627You know, even like you and I, we're students of life, we're students of property.
01:21:25.627 -->
01:21:25.989We're not.
01:21:25.989 -->
01:21:29.500You know we're, we're striving for mastery, but we will never get there.
01:21:29.500 -->
01:21:35.739Anyone who's always knows that, and so that's just another piece of knowledge that we'll be able to bring.
01:21:35.739 -->
01:21:38.210You know, I directly learned something about.
01:21:38.210 -->
01:21:43.340You know that the final bidder doesn't have the first right of refusal in Queensland.
01:21:43.340 -->
01:21:44.545I did not know that.
01:21:44.545 -->
01:21:50.907So you know, there's an example of an, you know, of a learning listen from just talking to Justin today.
01:21:51.922 -->
01:21:53.228I agree, mate.
01:21:53.228 -->
01:21:55.739I've been to scores and scores of auctions.
01:21:55.739 -->
01:21:59.980I've bid at scores and scores of auctions and my lips were closed.
01:21:59.980 -->
01:22:01.539My ears were in full tune there.
01:22:01.539 -->
01:22:07.720If someone, someone who's that good at his craft, I'd be mad not to be hanging on every word that he had.
01:22:07.720 -->
01:22:31.005So, justin, thanks for joining us today and I think our hopefully our audience got a huge benefit from your insights as we sort of wind down, ben, but it's auction season is going to really peak again as we come out into the new year, so it's good for people to marinate on those thoughts and percolate on them over the Christmas New Year breaks, that they can get themselves prepped if they need to buy an auction.
01:22:31.005 -->
01:22:41.400Hey, my life hack today, ben, is I actually want to crowdsource something from our audience so we might put, we might put some social content out on our platforms.
01:22:41.621 -->
01:22:56.386But one of the frustrations I've always had with podcasts is I'm driving, I'm walking, I'm somewhere where it's not convenient, but someone drops a truth bomb or some nugget of wisdom.
01:22:56.386 -->
01:23:06.940I mean, imagine you've just listened to our episode right now and Justin just said something that was just like an aha epiphany for you and you go oh, how am I actually going to capture that.
01:23:06.940 -->
01:23:10.109I'm just driving at the moment or I'm just not convenient to write it down.
01:23:10.109 -->
01:23:15.501Well, I was recently listening to no Secret to Our Own and it's been.
01:23:15.501 -->
01:23:25.565Morgan Housel is one of my favorite people to have a speak into my life right now and he was being interviewed on the Tim Ferriss podcast because he's got his new book out the same as ever.
01:23:25.565 -->
01:23:30.211And he made this suggestion and it was so stupidly simple.
01:23:30.211 -->
01:23:32.327I just went oh, why don't I think of that?
01:23:32.327 -->
01:23:33.663So I want to share it with the audience.
01:23:33.663 -->
01:23:41.810And it was simple as this Once you're listening to a podcast and someone says something that you all you do is screenshot it at the point that they said it, ben.
01:23:41.900 -->
01:23:51.351So if they did it on ours, and something that Justin said at the 27 minute 13, second mark, to screenshot it at that point automatically goes into your photos.
01:23:51.351 -->
01:24:07.470And then when you're in a position where you can actually go down because I do carry a journal, it's a Jim Rowne journal, ben I'll show everyone it's the Jim Rowne journal and I write and this is for people who are watching on YouTube any great idea I have, I just write it down.
01:24:07.470 -->
01:24:21.913So what I can actually do is then I can go back to the screenshot rewind when I'm sitting down, listen to it again, write it down and then I preserve that thought that can easily be lost in the cloud of stuff going on in the day.
01:24:21.913 -->
01:24:27.768So it was so painfully simple and obvious and I was kicking myself thinking why didn't I think of it before?
01:24:27.768 -->
01:24:32.868Some people might have already been doing that, ben, for those of you who have the same a-ha as me, hopefully that helps.
01:24:32.940 -->
01:24:35.663But here's what I want to crowd source, ben, what do you do?
01:24:35.663 -->
01:24:45.050What are people who are listening to us do when they have a podcast in their ears and it's not convenient for them to be able to write it down or jot down the note?
01:24:45.050 -->
01:24:52.034What do you actually do to say that I'd love to share those in upcoming podcasts?
01:24:52.034 -->
01:24:58.545Given, we are a podcast Ben, we are talking to a podcast community who love a podcast, so we really want to share.
01:24:58.545 -->
01:25:00.222So what's your hack?
01:25:00.222 -->
01:25:06.654Folks around capturing the insights that you get on podcasts when it's not convenient?
01:25:06.654 -->
01:25:07.904So hopefully-.
01:25:07.960 -->
01:25:09.184That's a challenge, because you're right.
01:25:09.184 -->
01:25:14.033If you're driving or riding a bike or running an operating machinery, we don't advise you to stop.
01:25:14.033 -->
01:25:17.609We do advise you to stop, but not try and do it at the same time.
01:25:18.081 -->
01:25:18.864Do two things at once.
01:25:18.864 -->
01:25:19.606So that is true.
01:25:19.606 -->
01:25:25.045I mean, on Audible there's a thing called a clip and that clip will be 15 seconds and you can write your notes on that.
01:25:25.045 -->
01:25:27.887So you do have time to just stop and take that piece.
01:25:27.887 -->
01:25:37.543But you're right, I haven't seen I know there's been a recent upgrade to podcasts on Apple, but I haven't sort of done a deep dive in terms of some of the new features Bookmarkers, don't they?
01:25:38.619 -->
01:25:40.215They should have a I should double check that if they've got the-.
01:25:41.882 -->
01:25:45.451But hopefully our community might reach out to us and tell us exactly what's happening there.
01:25:45.451 -->
01:25:55.211But there's no doubt that obviously that's a great way to capture those little bits of gold and you do a great job of putting them all into writing into your journal.
01:25:55.771 -->
01:25:57.845Yeah, there we go, or what's making property?
01:25:57.904 -->
01:25:58.547news, ben.
01:25:58.547 -->
01:26:00.425I think it's important.
01:26:00.425 -->
01:26:03.710We've got one sort of episode left before we go into summer series.
01:26:03.710 -->
01:26:08.412So what's happening in the auction market is a good segue from today's show.
01:26:08.412 -->
01:26:16.828And we did see that the combined capital cities last weekend had the lowest preliminary clearance rate in the last 32 weeks.
01:26:16.828 -->
01:26:26.284So even though so what we are seeing definitely at the moment is an increase in volume, so increase in supply and that and what?
01:26:26.364 -->
01:26:42.029Obviously what we've been talking about a lot is how much of that supply is being absorbed, because at the moment that's going to determine price movements in the short term over the next three to six months in terms of how much buyer demand is in there.
01:26:42.029 -->
01:26:49.707And at the moment we know that that absorption has been there, so that buyer demand is there and it's meeting that supply side.
01:26:49.707 -->
01:27:05.811But there's certainly markets like Sydney and Melbourne, canberra, hobart where that sort of buyer demand is starting to now be challenged, so that can potentially represent further buying opportunities in the medium term.
01:27:05.811 -->
01:27:07.626But that's just an indication of that.
01:27:07.626 -->
01:27:12.905So we're seeing auction clearance rates in those markets being a bit challenged, certainly Sydney and Melbourne.
01:27:12.905 -->
01:27:28.773I don't really care too much about the auction clearance rates in Brisbane or Adelaide or other markets like Canberra and Perth, because they're just not materially significant, so they don't have any sort of great reliability around where their sort of activity is in the market.
01:27:28.773 -->
01:27:31.547Just a one to be aware of.
01:27:31.547 -->
01:27:42.359We'll do, obviously, a big property outlook update in February next year, but it's very clear that some of those markets are starting to lose a bit of their momentum.
01:27:42.359 -->
01:27:57.854Now, if I'm also a buyer and I'm thinking about Christmas market and some of those properties aren't selling during Christmas, those sellers, those vendors there's going to be a few of those vendors who are going to be out there who are going to say I just want to see the back end of that.
01:27:57.854 -->
01:28:11.087So I think that for the first time in probably as long as I can think of Bryce, where there's going to be some good buying opportunities over Christmas, new Year, because people I think vendors expectations are going to be lowered.
01:28:11.087 -->
01:28:23.934So if you're thinking about buying over this next period of time, you can't do this in Adelaide, you can't do this in Perth they are still red hot markets and Brisbane is also red hot markets.
01:28:23.934 -->
01:28:25.265So you can't do those in those markets.
01:28:25.265 -->
01:28:42.148But in the other markets you can have a look at what's been hanging around on the market and look at the land content, look at reliable and durable and those types of properties you want to Bryce's point on Peter Kallises point, you just want to buy, hold and wait in terms of how those particular markets play out.
01:28:42.148 -->
01:28:48.451So that's the emerging story in terms of what's happening from a price trend point of view.
01:28:50.739 -->
01:28:53.728And the other large story that came out this week Bryce was.
01:28:53.728 -->
01:29:03.012On Sunday the Paloche, a government up in Queensland, you know sort of she's decided to boost the first homeowner's grant.
01:29:03.012 -->
01:29:08.850So it's now $30,000 if you're buying or building a new property.
01:29:08.850 -->
01:29:10.873Not, it's not existing property.
01:29:10.873 -->
01:29:15.030But there's been a lot of debate around how that helps the market.
01:29:15.030 -->
01:29:16.806It just raises prices for everyone else.
01:29:16.806 -->
01:29:22.810Yeah, that's potentially true, but ultimately we're still a strong believer that we love to see people get into property.
01:29:22.810 -->
01:29:33.310So there's a counterbalance to that and they're arguing with the mining royalty taxes increases they're able to do this for first home buyers in the Queensland market.
01:29:33.310 -->
01:29:39.886And who would have guessed Bryce were coming into an election year next year for and you know that government is in a little bit of trouble.
01:29:39.886 -->
01:29:44.470So I think you know they're trying to buy some boats with a policy like this.
01:29:45.220 -->
01:29:46.384Knocked me over with a feather, mate.
01:29:46.384 -->
01:29:47.307I wouldn't believe that much.
01:29:47.307 -->
01:29:48.645You'd said that, so very good.
01:29:48.645 -->
01:29:54.164Well, hopefully, folks, you've agreed that that's been an action pack show today with a lot of really great content.
01:29:54.164 -->
01:30:00.373So again, thank you to our guest interviewer today, which was Justin Nickerson.
01:30:00.373 -->
01:30:07.527But, mate, last week, next week, as you said, is the penultimate episode before we go into summer series and we've got a ripper.
01:30:07.527 -->
01:30:15.007We're talking about what money means to people and it's we've got some really awesome insights to share, so we want to make sure people stick around for that.
01:30:15.007 -->
01:30:16.324But, mate, until next week.
01:30:17.300 -->
01:30:23.685Knowledge is empowering, but only if you act on it, because, bryce, you're either a property owner or you're not.
01:30:23.685 -->
01:30:25.765Oh, nice one.
01:30:25.784 -->
01:30:26.306Variation.
01:30:26.306 -->
01:30:26.627Love it.
01:30:26.627 -->
01:30:27.430See you next week, folks.
01:30:27.430 -->
01:30:30.680Hey folks, bryce, here again.
01:30:30.680 -->
01:30:34.750I just wanted to catch you real quick before you go.
01:30:35.380 -->
01:30:56.368If you're new to our community, I want to encourage you to listen to our very first 20 episodes, as the concepts we share in EPS One through 20 are foundational principles, pillars and frameworks that you need to know for you to get the best value from our content week to week on our show, my little tip is to listen to it at one and a half speed.
01:30:57.300 -->
01:31:02.907Now, for those of you that are time poor and don't have the option to go back to the beginning, don't worry, because we've got you covered as well.
01:31:03.699 -->
01:31:13.189We've created a binge guide that summarized these foundational episodes into one easy-to-digest booklet so that you can get up to speed super fast.
01:31:13.189 -->
01:31:22.030So go to the show description on whatever device you're listening to now and simply click on the first 20 episodes link to download it straight away.
01:31:22.030 -->
01:31:38.945Oh and, by the way, whilst you're there, you'll find a few extra goodies for you, including a link to download our lifestyle by design app more, the home of Wealthspeed and Wealthcock, and our hugely popular MoneySmart's money management system, as well as how to get free copies of our bestselling books.
01:31:38.945 -->
01:31:54.451Now, just a reminder that anything we cover on this podcast is not considered to be financial advice, and we certainly recommend that you seek out expert advice tailored to your unique circumstances, and everything we talk about is general in nature.
01:31:54.451 -->
01:32:04.100Folks, I want to encourage you again to click on the show description, wherever you are listening, to access all the free goodies we have for you Until next week.
