How Do We Train the Next Generation of Machinists? | 53

WEBVTT
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Hello everyone, and welcome to the Practical Machines Podcast.
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My name is Patrick.
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You can find me on Instagram at JackCoffin.
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I'm Karen from Virginia School.
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If you're listening to us an Apple Podcast or Spotify with a 3K5 star rating, I'm Bradley with Marvel Machine and YouTube and lately subscribed to the Factory Machine YouTube channel.
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On this episode, we're answering some community questions, such as how to manage your cash flow when dealing with net payments, convincing your employer to invest in new technology, and how to deal with these crazy car buy prices.
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Well, how you boys doing?
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It's been a little bit since just the three of us have been together.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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The three muscaqueers.
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We've got so much random crap sitting around the shop.
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I know.
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I I need to get down there.
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We got so the we've got this room that's like six probably six, maybe seven feet wide, and maybe six, seven, maybe like fifteen feet deep, a little more, whatever.
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Anyway, so that used to be their material room back in the day, back whenever it was all manual machining.
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Then it turned into an air compressor room.
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Well, there was a little material rack in there that got removed so the air compressor could go in.
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But then the other side of the room, so like the left wall, still completely full of like S7A2, like bronze, some brass, I think, but a bunch of bronze in there, some all-thread, you know, like big all-thread.
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There's some acme all-thread, just a bunch of random stuff that's been there for years, probably decades at this point, at least.
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Oh wow.
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Yeah.
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We haven't touched any of it.
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I think once I I think I took some bronze out of there one time to make a guide bushing for a backside counterboard tool because the hole was too big for the shaft of the tool.
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So yeah, that's what we've done with it.
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So I'll find me a trailer somewhere and I'll get down there one of these days.
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There's some 4140 in there as well.
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We'll just say what my not to mention all the burnt burnout drops we have.
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Or well, not really drops, it's all just stuff that our material supplier sent wrong.
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And then they're always I don't know if they'll still do it nowadays, but used to they would send material to us and we'd be like, hey, this material is the wrong size, shape, whatever.
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They're like, okay, just keep it.
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We'll send you some new material.
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Or they'd say, Oh, we'll come pick it up, and then they never come pick it up.
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So we've got a whole bunch of stuff that they just never came and got.
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Wow.
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Yeah.
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We've also got some stainless, I think it's like 11 inches in diameter, maybe 12, like an inch and a half thick.
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There's like seven of them, I think.
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Oh wow.
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Just I don't I don't remember if it's 303 or 304 or what, but yeah, they I don't know why we ended up with stain, they completely sent us the wrong thing.
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All stainless, and they just never came and got it.
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So good grief.
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I haven't come up with a good idea yet for that.
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I was thinking about making a skillet out of some of it.
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That'd be really cool.
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Nice machine, stainless steel skillet.
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Yeah.
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Do like isogrid on the bottom of it or something.
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Something nerdy.
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We just had to repair a part that we screwed up this week.
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So yeah.
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Well, sorry, Cam, you're booted off podcast.
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This show's for perfect people only.
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Yep.
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Nope.
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It happens.
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Guy, it was on a big casting, and he uh on op two when he flipped the casting, it was machine it on the mill.
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Um, just a big round casting with a bunch of close tolerance fits on it and stuff.
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And on op two, whenever he flipped the part over, he raised his work-off set ten thousandths, got all of his diameters f uh dialed in.
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There's like big face groove and you know, like an 18-something inch fit that's like plus one minus nothing, or whatever.
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So he got I think hyper-fixated on that stuff and got all the fits dialed in and then forgotten to dial in the heights and left it 10 over.
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So then he didn't check it before sending it out.
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So yeah, we still yeah.
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I've done it before.
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It really and truly, despite my my joking, it does happen.
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I mean, the the only people that don't scrap things are either people that don't do anything or people on Facebook.
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Brad, what about you?
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You got anything new?
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I got one of the machines that that goes spinny spinny spin.
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Yeah, I wired it's wired up.
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I wired it the other day and I got a job.
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I gotta wow, I don't know if I'm gonna run it yet.
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We'll see.
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I got these 6061 tube parts I gotta turn down the OD on.
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We'll see.
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I don't know if I want to do them yet.
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How long?
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15 inches.
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I think they're like six-inch diameter with a five-inch through OD or ID.
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I gotta take like a hundred thou off the outside.
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Shouldn't you?
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That's not too bad.
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Yeah, I'll probably just make a plug.
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Hold on.
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Oh yeah, we'll make some plugs.
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That's all these are for, right?
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Butt plugs.
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Yeah, just a big butt plug machine.
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We'll see.
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I I actually this is probably one of the first times I ordered an extra piece of material because I'll probably crash it.
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So remember, don't hit the chuck pedal.
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I probably will.
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Yeah.
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I mean, I haven't run a proper C and C lane so long.
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I'm I'm sure I would too.
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And I used to be a chuck monkey.
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The thing is where I had that thing set, it was where I'd walk up, and if I stepped with my left foot, I'd always step on it.
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So this was so when I just set it up, I just moved it down.
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Yeah.
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So or maybe I should move it to the right under the control so I can't walk into it.
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I don't know.
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What foot do you use on the pedal?
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Left.
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I would I always use the right.
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Oh, yeah.
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Which side is your pedal on?
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I'm trying to remember.
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It's been so long.
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I mean, mine was always on on all the lathes that we had at at my first job, it was always kind of you have the door, controller.
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It was usually like here.
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So kind of more on the left side of the machine.
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But you used your right?
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Yeah.
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That's over there doing a one two-step in front of the machine.
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Something like that, yeah.
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Well, like I'd fall in.
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Right?
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I mean, I would just, you know, kind of turn to it, hit it.
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If you know, if I was a manual car driver, I'd probably use my left.
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Be like hit the clutch.
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Yeah, stretching gears.
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Bigger parts are too.
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Yeah.
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I feel like I'm usually running something decent size.
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I don't know.
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I just always use my left foot.
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And then like on the big lathe, you'll get a 18-inch A36 burnout in there, get it clamped in, and then you know, kind of like halfway get in the machine and push as hard as you can on it, and then hit the pedal real fast twice so it unclamps and reclamps and like seats the part.
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Yeah, Pat, how are you reaching over there with your right foot?
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I'd put a tag on the machine if you worked for me.
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No right footers.
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Left feet only.
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Holy crap.
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Design the re 3D print a little shield that only fits a left foot where the big toe is.
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So then you can't use your right foot.
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That way you don't have any accidents.
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You got different size feet?
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No, the shape's different.
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So like the big toe, the big toe cut out on the right side.
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Yeah, the right side.
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You don't have boots on?
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Do like a uh the hemi pedal on uh on Joe Dirt folks.
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That thing got a hemi in it.
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Wow.
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I gotta I gotta level that thing though.
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I gotta figure out how to do that.
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I don't even know how to do that on one of them fucking things.
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No.
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I'm sure what's his Aaron, what's his thing?
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CNC repair man.
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Yeah, CNC, you'll know.
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He's got some videos, I'm sure.
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Yeah.
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Lethes are weird in in that regard.
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Not just weird.
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Well, because like level is not really what you shoot for.
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I'm coming at this from a manual perspective.
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Um level and straight are not necessarily the same thing on a lathe.
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So it might take a little bit of tweaking.
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I mean, technically, no machine has to be level, like a normal mill or lathe, whatever.
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But everybody just calls it that.
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I call it that.
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I don't really mean leveling the machine.
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I mean, I want my machine to be level.
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Yeah.
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But really, what you're doing is adjusting like the twist of everything so that way it runs straight.
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Yeah.
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But imagine I haven't done a C and C lathe, but I'm assuming it's basically the same as you would do a manual lathe.
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Make sure there's no twist in the bed.
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Get everything dialed in.
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I'll find out.
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Uh yeah.
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Take uh take a video of it.
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How uh I can see the the title now.
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Like how let's see.
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How uh how a millbilly became a chuck monkey or something.
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You see wiring up your lathe and running a part on it.
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Man, this is awesome.
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Do uh do an AI thumbnail of a parking lot.
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God, I might end up selling my UMC, my vertical, and my horizontal.
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99% of the parts come out of this fucking thing.
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They all start there.
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Really, you just need like one good three-axis lathe or three-axis mill just for all the holes you need to do coming off the lathe.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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All those fancy five-axis parts and stuff.
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They just start on the lathe.
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You mean I can't put 40 tools in this lathe?
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Yeah.
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That's what probably what I hate the most about.
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I don't know.
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I hate a lot of things about lathes.
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But it it is uh it can be very frustrating.
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That's actually why on like uh like flatbed lathes that are kind of like manual CNC lathes, I'd much rather have a toolpost than a turret.
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So much more adaptable.
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Yeah.
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I guess you don't have to plan around all of your tools.
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Make sure that they're all gonna clear the chuck and the wall and all that.
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Yep.
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I mean, that's a huge reason why mill turns are so cool.
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You don't have any of that crap.
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I mean, yeah, you got the big, you know, spindle housing and whatnot.
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You don't have to deal with, well, this bar is gonna hit the chuck, so I have to put this drill above the bar, below the bar, two spaces above the bar.
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Now I have a dead spot on the turret.
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I can't stand that.
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I've been thinking about it.
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I think a mill turn would definitely suit us better than uh like a three-axis lathe with live tooling.
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I mean, we don't do any production if we do.
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I mean, it's nothing crazy.
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It's 20 parts or something.
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So we need more versatility than we need like a machine with fast tool changes and slow milling.
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Yeah, definitely.
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I think there's definitely a benefit.
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Well, I mean, they all have a benefit, but like a three-axis for a long time.
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I was like, we need a y-axis lathe with live tooling, subspindle, all that.
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But then the more I've thought about it, it's like, okay, well, yeah, they're great, you know, like you get to add in that milling functionality, but it's not that good at milling.
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But it has really fast tool changes, really fast rapids.
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So as far as you know getting apart made quickly, it's probably gonna be pretty decent unless you have a lot of milling to do.
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But then I'm like, well, then you know, we run a two-piece order, which is common for us.
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You gotta go through and set up all those freaking tools.
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By the time you're done with that, you ought to just do it on a three-axis or a two-axis lathe and then have a mill op, you know, versus having a a mill turn where you can just have a tool changer loaded up with all the stuff you need and may not be able to mill as aggressively as you know, like a solid three-axis mill, but still can mill things pretty dang well.
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Yeah.
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There's just a minor price difference between them.
00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:26.080
So yeah, that's the only problem, unfortunately.
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Uh yeah, man, I can't tell you how many jobs I've ran, you know, that were should have been a live tool lathe part, but by the time you set up tools and work edge or clearances and all that stuff, I mean, if if you buy a live tool lathe and you spend, I don't know, let's say$100,000 in you know, live tools and holders and capto quick change stuff, sure, you'd be better off and you could adapt pretty quick.
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But how long is that$100,000 gonna take to pay off?
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It's gonna take a while.
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And then if you look at a$200,000 live tool lathe and$100,000 worth of tooling,$50,000,$100,000 more gets you into a mill turn.
00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:15.200
I mean, that that gets you into a DN like DNX or SMX, whichever.
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I think it's the DNX is the I think the I think it's a DNX.
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That's the one that has like five axis positioning, but not simultaneous five or four axis positioning, maybe, but not simultaneous four-axis machining or something.
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Yeah.
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I don't know.
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I mean, I think with the the live tool lathe stuff though, you know, if you're willing to buy you stuff, you could definitely find like some good lots of quick change tooling and that sort of thing.
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Yeah, I'd say so.
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I don't know.
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I think I just don't want to deal with any of it.
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I'm just gonna make parts on the mill.
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Yeah.
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Let's let let the turning place do turning, you do milling.
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Yeah.
00:13:58.000 --> 00:13:59.200
Just go on with it.
00:13:59.840 --> 00:14:07.039
What's funny is you know, like with checking parts on the CMM, you know, because we do a lot of parts on a mill that are just round parts, you know, that have round fits.
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You know, you'll have like I was saying earlier, like an 18 and a half inch plus one minus nothing fit or something.
00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:16.799
And, you know, checking them on the CMM, you know, we have a big lathe that can do that stuff too.
00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:18.559
And we use it all the time for that kind of thing.
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But as far as circularity goes, I get about the same out of a mill as I do out of a lathe.
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Whenever you have a lathe, you know, with a hydraulic chuck grabbing in those three positions, even if you turn your pressure down, it still deforms the part a little bit.
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Whereas on the mill, we we're able to hold it without deforming it like that because we're not spinning the part.
00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:37.600
So we need near as much pressure to hold it.
00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:41.919
And then you know, you have the basically the axis changes of the mill.
00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:51.679
So whenever it switches from you know going y negative to y positive or whatever, you know, you have a little bit of maybe like a it depends on the mill and how loose it is and your backlash comp and all that.
00:14:51.759 --> 00:14:55.360
But you know, on a tight mill, I'll have like a tenth of variation there.
00:14:55.759 --> 00:14:58.080
So you're gonna be fine, you know.
00:14:58.399 --> 00:15:01.519
Yeah, that's super awesome.
00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:06.000
And like if you were to tell you know an old head that they wouldn't believe you.
00:15:06.559 --> 00:15:09.759
Uh you never interpolate a tight tolerance fit.
00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:10.399
Right.
00:15:10.639 --> 00:15:13.039
Do it all the time, even on a Hawes.
00:15:13.120 --> 00:15:14.240
I mean, you can do it on a hobby.
00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:16.639
Because then you can creep up on it too.
00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:37.600
I mean, you can you can creep up on it on a lathe, but I mean, how many times have you been like, all right, I'm gonna leave 40 or like 20 per side on this for my rough finish pass, and then I'll measure, and then I can you know comp it, and then you take, you know, say you comp it minus 21 thousandths, and you end up, you know, it cut two tenths more than you expected, and now you're out of tolerance.
00:15:38.559 --> 00:15:40.960
Because now it's four tenths per side less.
00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:41.759
Oh, yeah.
00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:43.279
I don't have that on a mill.
00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:48.639
No, it's it's a lot easier to you know take out a few tenths on a mill.
00:15:49.039 --> 00:15:53.279
You don't have to deal with a big nose radius on a boring bar or something like that.
00:15:53.840 --> 00:15:54.320
Yeah.
00:15:54.639 --> 00:15:56.879
I inter I interpolate them all the time.
00:15:57.120 --> 00:15:58.320
Yeah, I do too.
00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:13.600
I mean, I there's been some parts that have not huge diameters, you know, it's smaller stuff, usually, whatever happens, but it'll be like plus five tenths minus nothing on like a 2.501 bearing fit.
00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:16.159
And I interpolate it all the time.
00:16:16.960 --> 00:16:18.879
I had one, I had one part.
00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:33.840
Actually, I had I think I had a couple, it was like a six and a half inch uh bearing fit that was that had a five tenths tolerance on it, and set up a dial board gauge, walked it out on the machine, took it to the CMM, it was right on.
00:16:34.159 --> 00:16:39.679
I mean, I get if you have like a circularity call out or something, but usually I I never I don't.
00:16:39.759 --> 00:16:40.480
I never fucking do.
00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:50.799
I still like I said, I mean, like with the I mean, unless you have loose sloppy machines, if you've got good type machines, then you're not gonna have a problem with it.
00:16:50.879 --> 00:16:57.200
Yeah, I mean, eventually a machine gets old and worn out and it's not gonna be able to do that, so you gotta know your machines.
00:16:57.279 --> 00:17:02.799
Yeah, but even our oldest machine, I can have you know three tenths circularity.
00:17:02.960 --> 00:17:03.440
Yeah.
00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:05.839
So yeah, I'll take it.
00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:08.960
Which is yeah, I I do it all the time.
00:17:09.519 --> 00:17:15.119
I know I'm checking them with electronic pins, and chances are the customers checking them the same fucking pins.
00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:20.400
So some of ours will check them in a hot warehouse with calipers.
00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:26.480
So that three tenths difference isn't gonna make anything when they press that fucking pin in there.
00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:27.279
Yeah, right.
00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:29.920
Yeah, well, and that's a lot that's the thing too with a lot of these bearing fits.
00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:32.400
It's like they're shooting for that tight of a granted.
00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:38.799
I will say it depends how you're installing a bearing, you know, if it's got to be like a field install, I would definitely want that five tenths tolerance on it.
00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:46.240
Because like if anybody's pressed a bearing in, you know, with a hammer, you know, if you get a if you're a thousandth off, it makes it so much harder.
00:17:46.400 --> 00:17:46.720
Yeah.
00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:52.000
So I do get that, but yeah, I don't really want to work on anything tighter than that.
00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:52.559
Yeah.
00:17:53.200 --> 00:18:00.480
Well, boys, I gathered uh quite a few questions from Instagram from the CNC guy.
00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:05.279
Uh his comment was, that's the way we've always done it, mindset.
00:18:05.759 --> 00:18:10.880
So I assume his intent is how do you defeat that in a company?
00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:19.119
You know, ultimately, I think it just comes down to you know, push hard, but eventually you kind of have to realize it's not your shop.
00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:23.920
So there's only so hard you can push before you start to rub people the wrong way.
00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:28.160
Yeah, it's hard to change that stuff whenever you're not in control of things.
00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:35.839
You know, like if you say you've made it to a managerial position and you can start implementing new stuff and be like, look, we're gonna try this new thing.
00:18:36.079 --> 00:18:36.640
All right.
00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:39.039
Everybody get on board with me for a minute.
00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:39.920
We're gonna try it out.
00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:41.279
I promise you it's gonna be better.
00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:42.960
You know, I mean, it has to actually be better.
00:18:43.119 --> 00:18:46.160
You can't just keep throwing shit at the wall and hope something sticks.
00:18:46.319 --> 00:18:51.519
But if you're gonna trust you whenever you say, hey, we've got this new thing we're gonna do.
00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:54.160
So you want to make sure it's gonna be a good idea going into it.
00:18:54.240 --> 00:19:00.400
But if you're not in some sort of managerial position or something or own the place, then it's gonna be hard to change that mentality.
00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:00.799
Yeah.
00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:07.119
Or if you're in a position to just do it and make the change and show why it works.
00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:08.160
Uh yeah, like so.
00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:08.880
You're a programmer.
00:19:09.039 --> 00:19:09.440
Yep.
00:19:09.599 --> 00:19:11.440
I did it, I did it years ago at a shop.
00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:18.720
We had these parts that always came back, and it was like a six-hour runtime, and they were just using giant fucking face mail to rough these things out.
00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:27.039
I ended up getting a temp seat of volume mail at the time, and I reprogrammed the part and I shaved off like two hours, and I just did it on a Friday when nobody was there.
00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:28.480
And then they came back on Monday.
00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:30.640
I showed them he's like, Oh, you saved two hours.
00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:34.000
Like, yeah, but now we gotta buy volume mail, and it was like an$800 add-on.
00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:35.039
But he did it, yeah.
00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:41.200
Like, we were doing fucking 50 parts saving two hours on a part, like no brainer.
00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:44.160
But I I I remember for months I was like, Hey, let's try this.
00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:46.799
No, I'm not spending money on something that's not gonna work.
00:19:46.880 --> 00:19:50.079
So I took the initiative, did it myself, and just proved it.
00:19:50.319 --> 00:19:52.799
Yeah, sometimes it's better to ask for forgiveness.
00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:58.000
Yeah, I mean in a situation like that, it's like, oh shit, yep, that's gonna save us a ton of time.
00:19:58.079 --> 00:19:59.200
Yeah, and a ton of money.
00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:00.000
Let's do that.
00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:00.960
That's great.
00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:05.680
So it's really one of those it depends what it is, what you're trying to prove is a better route.
00:20:05.759 --> 00:20:09.279
Yeah, you just gotta work it in where you can, where you're at.
00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:12.319
There's only so much you can do at a company, you know.
00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:18.640
It's not very often you'll be able to just run a company like it's your own and implement whatever changes you want.
00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:20.160
So yeah.
00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:22.799
And that that can be a dangerous mindset too.
00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:31.920
It can lead you to if you're in a spot where that's never realistically gonna happen, uh it's a it's a good way to bring yourself out.
00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:43.279
Nothing wrong with taking like taking some initiative and responsibility, you know, because that kind of puts you a step up above the average guy that just shows up, clocks in, and just wants a paycheck.
00:20:43.359 --> 00:20:43.680
Yeah.
00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:47.279
But make sure you're gonna get something for that too.
00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:48.240
Yeah.
00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:49.359
Yeah.
00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:58.480
I mean, you can, yeah, like Brad was saying, change the way you program and stuff, improve your own things and get better yourself and then move on to somewhere else.
00:20:58.640 --> 00:20:58.960
Yep.
00:20:59.200 --> 00:20:59.599
Yeah.
00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:01.440
If nothing else, yep.
00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:07.359
And then his second question, like Brad mentioned, dealing with shipping companies wrecking parts.
00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:14.720
About a year ago, we uh UPS lost a die set of ours that we shipped out.
00:21:14.960 --> 00:21:17.440
Um, it was like a$6,000 set.
00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:26.720
And then they fought us and fought us about paying for the insurance that we paid for, but they didn't want to pay us for it.
00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:35.359
Like last month, the owner got a call from UPS wanting to settle something about that.
00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:43.680
So yeah, even having insurance on packages apparently isn't doesn't guarantee you that you're gonna get what you need.
00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:44.079
No.
00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:48.400
Any anytime we've ever lost a package to UPS, we we've just had to eat it.
00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:54.480
It doesn't matter if we bought the insurance on it, if we raised hell with somebody, tried to fight it, like they're stiff about it.
00:21:54.640 --> 00:21:57.519
And they don't care if you're pissed off.
00:21:57.759 --> 00:21:59.680
Is there any third party insurance for that?
00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:07.839
Need a legitimate insurance company with lawyers to fight them.
00:22:08.559 --> 00:22:08.960
Yeah.
00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:11.839
But I mean he's he's saying dan wrecking parts.
00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:13.839
Um I don't know, man.
00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:15.839
Look at how you're packaging them.
00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:16.400
Yeah.
00:22:16.559 --> 00:22:20.160
I mean, at the I got a video on packaging parts on YouTube.
00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:20.880
Watch it.
00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:24.880
It's it's ultimately up to you to package the parts in a way they're not going to get wrecked.
00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:34.640
You got people that are making$14 an hour trying to get out a thousand packages that should take yeah 15 hours and they got eight hours to do it.
00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:37.359
I mean, I overpackage the shit out of it.
00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:38.160
Me too.
00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:42.720
I mean, for us, it's it's known if you're so you know, a lot of times we deliver parts on pallets.
00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:48.160
And if you're doing that, you box up the parts, make sure they're protected, but you just throw them in one box, stick them on the pallet, you're good to go.
00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:48.400
Yep.
00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:57.759
And it's known if you're gonna be shipping UPS, you know, you wrap the part, bubble wrap, whatever, inside of a box, then you put that box inside of another box, more bubble wrap around it.
00:22:57.920 --> 00:23:05.519
So that way it's double boxed with thick cardboard boxes, and they can almost do whatever they want to it, and it's not gonna damage the part.
00:23:05.680 --> 00:23:06.160
Yep.
00:23:06.400 --> 00:23:10.640
You see videos online all the time of people throwing boxes, kicking them up driveways.
00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:13.039
Just expect it's gonna happen to yours.
00:23:13.519 --> 00:23:16.319
And if it's a heavy, if it's something heavy, just ship it for eight.
00:23:16.400 --> 00:23:16.640
Yeah.
00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:20.559
Because if it's heavy, it's just gonna you know beat right through the cardboard.
00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:21.119
Yep.
00:23:21.279 --> 00:23:22.160
Oh yeah.
00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:29.599
I would say, and this this is the only thing I can say about that that die set that we that we had to get lost.
00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:34.079
It it probably in hindsight should have been shipped like in two or three boxes.
00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:38.880
We put a lot of parts in one box because we didn't have a lot of boxes.
00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:45.759
Uh, that is actually what kind of spurred the owner to actually go buy boxes and packaging material.
00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:48.079
But how do you lose something like that?
00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:48.640
Right.
00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:51.039
Yeah, you're talking it's a hundred pounds.
00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:51.440
Yeah.
00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:51.759
Okay.
00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:55.440
It's not someone was like, oh man, I bet something's cool in here.
00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:55.920
Right.
00:23:56.160 --> 00:23:57.519
I bet there's some cool shit in here.
00:23:57.599 --> 00:23:59.920
And then just mysteriously disappear.
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:06.640
I mean, we've had the exact same copper parts disappear multiple times to go into the same platers.
00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:09.519
You were coming back from the platers to us.
00:24:09.759 --> 00:24:11.920
UPS has lost them.
00:24:13.039 --> 00:24:19.440
And I'll say too, it doesn't matter what carrier you use because really all it depends on is who's driving the truck.
00:24:19.519 --> 00:24:21.839
It doesn't matter if it's UPS, FedEx, or whoever.
00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:24.240
Yeah, or who's tossing packages at the dock.
00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:24.640
Right.
00:24:24.880 --> 00:24:26.319
Oh, I worked at UPS.
00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:29.279
I must have been 15 um loading semis.
00:24:29.599 --> 00:24:30.720
I made it three days.
00:24:30.799 --> 00:24:32.160
That's a terrible fucking job.
00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:35.119
I can tell you I kicked a couple boxes in frustration.
00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:38.000
I ended up walking out of that place.
00:24:38.160 --> 00:24:38.880
Fuck this.
00:24:39.039 --> 00:24:45.839
I think God, I was making$7 an hour and I was supposed to fill a full semi in a full four-hour shift.
00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:52.400
And when them conveyors start coming and shit's coming down and shit's tipping, and you can't step over shit, fuck that.
00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:55.519
Yeah, I understand why people kick boxes.
00:24:57.200 --> 00:24:59.119
That does put a little perspective on it.
00:24:59.359 --> 00:25:00.000
Wow.
00:25:01.279 --> 00:25:06.319
Um, so what I was saying is they do there are third-party shipping insurance options.
00:25:06.720 --> 00:25:10.400
And it actually sounds like a good idea.
00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:13.440
Um, I'll just rattle off a few.
00:25:13.599 --> 00:25:14.799
This is just from Google.
00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:18.160
There's companies called X Cover, Ship Insurance.
00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:20.559
I don't know how to pronounce that.
00:25:20.720 --> 00:25:24.960
Insure shield, partial in parcel insurance plan.
00:25:25.519 --> 00:25:30.799
Um seems like if you do that, oh they're they're fairly cheap.
00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:41.920
They give you a lot better protection, uh, like against porch piracy, if it's something like that, which you know, we're not gonna have that, but um porch piracy.
00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:42.640
Right.
00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:43.920
Porch piracy.
00:25:44.480 --> 00:25:48.720
Um or uh you know, higher limits of insurance as well.
00:25:48.880 --> 00:26:01.599
So because you know, a lot of times, even if you like our die set was six grand, that was our our price to the customer, they might the shipper might only want to pay the material value.
00:26:01.680 --> 00:26:02.640
It's kind of like platers.
00:26:02.799 --> 00:26:08.400
Honestly, it's just like platers, you know, they only want to pay the the minimum amount that they can.
00:26:09.119 --> 00:26:13.279
So yeah, definitely a good idea to look into that.
00:26:13.519 --> 00:26:18.160
Yeah, I mean your insurance you have through your company might already have some sort of coverage too.
00:26:19.359 --> 00:26:19.759
Yeah.
00:26:20.079 --> 00:26:25.680
Or put it on put it on that once that package leaves your facility, it's on the customer.
00:26:26.079 --> 00:26:31.759
I mean, my my my POs say that, but I would never I would never tell a customer to fuck off.
00:26:31.839 --> 00:26:33.440
Like, no, you're responsible for it now.
00:26:33.599 --> 00:26:34.559
Not my problem.
00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:41.359
Yeah, I mean it's not worth losing the customer at that point, but yeah, yeah, depending on the part and the customer.
00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:42.079
Right.
00:26:42.880 --> 00:26:48.559
What do you what do you do if uh customer if you use their account to ship something?
00:26:49.359 --> 00:26:54.640
Would you tell them would you tell them like deal with your shipping, like file a claim?
00:26:55.119 --> 00:27:05.359
Yeah, I mean, I don't know, I'm not a customer service guy, so although I do deal with them, my first instinct is to be like, man, that sucks.
00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:07.599
Right.
00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:13.119
The right thing is, you know, like a business owner would be to figure out a way to make it right for them, even though it's not your fault at all.
00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:13.839
Yeah, yeah.
00:27:14.559 --> 00:27:17.920
But I mean, because all all it takes, all it takes is you tell the post.
00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:24.000
Yeah, you you already know exactly how it's gonna go when they try to fight, you know, UPS or FedEx on it.
00:27:24.400 --> 00:27:25.440
You know, they're just screwed.
00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:32.799
So now they're out because they still they're you're still gonna want your money, so they got to pay you and pay for the shipping, and then still not have the parts at all.
00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:37.279
And then now you've got to remake them, setting everything back, you know, however long.
00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:41.519
Like if it's some aluminum parts or quick, easy, whatever, then fine.
00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:44.880
But I think it also depends on the nature of the part, you know.
00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:55.119
Like if we're talking about a part that's you know 1500 bucks of material and two, three, four days of machine time, I don't know if I'm gonna just freely do that.
00:27:56.720 --> 00:27:57.039
No.
00:27:57.440 --> 00:27:59.279
Because UPS lost it, you know.
00:27:59.440 --> 00:28:01.599
Maybe I'm like, I don't know.
00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:04.880
It's just hard to justify doing that off of someone else's mistake.
00:28:05.119 --> 00:28:05.680
Yeah.
00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:10.880
If it if it's something I can have knocked out in you know, three, four hours or whatever, then I'd I'd definitely do it.
00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:11.680
Yeah.
00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:17.839
Yeah, even if it was just like, okay, material cost, sure, free labor.
00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:24.160
But yeah, I mean I'd want to find a way to work with them though, you know, make sure that they're still happy with it, you know.
00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:32.799
Now, if they're being like irrational about it, like, no, just you're gonna make us new parts and send them again because your shipping company screwed this up.
00:28:32.960 --> 00:28:35.440
I'm like, uh, am I?
00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:36.799
Right.
00:28:37.279 --> 00:28:49.200
But but you know, like I was saying, if it's expensive material and a lot of machine time, maybe we can work out like, all right, you cover material costs and I'll cover the labor, we'll make you another one and ship it a different method, whatever.
00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:52.079
Because you never know.
00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:58.720
I mean, some places might say that and they just want free parts.
00:28:59.359 --> 00:29:02.559
So you do have to kind of have a little skepticism in there, too.
00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:10.960
Well, yeah, you gotta watch out for the watch out for the shisty motherfuckers that are gonna try to you know gyp you out of something.
00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:11.680
Yep.
00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:13.359
Yeah.
00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:14.960
All right, E boy.
00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:16.640
Brad, how about you pick one out?
00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:20.880
Oh, just go to the top, Connor 254.
00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:25.039
Our company keeps outsourcing all of our work, leaving us with little to do.
00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:26.480
Follow the work.
00:29:27.279 --> 00:29:28.400
That's what I do.
00:29:28.880 --> 00:29:30.000
You know where the work's going.
00:29:30.079 --> 00:29:31.279
Call them, say hey.
00:29:31.599 --> 00:29:32.240
That's a good point.
00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:36.240
Every company outsource you too.
00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:37.680
Yeah.
00:29:38.079 --> 00:29:41.759
I don't blame a company for outsourcing work to a certain extent.
00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:48.640
If it's that much cheaper for you to outsource the work than it is for you to make it yourself, then you probably got something wrong.
00:29:48.799 --> 00:29:49.279
Yeah.
00:29:49.599 --> 00:29:50.799
At your shop.
00:29:51.359 --> 00:29:52.000
Yeah.
00:29:52.799 --> 00:30:04.000
It's it's a real easy rabbit hole to go down where okay, you start outsourcing all your work because you can just make a flat 10, 15, 20, and then you start laying people off.
00:30:04.079 --> 00:30:07.200
And then it's yeah, it's not great.
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:09.519
It does make sense in some instances.
00:30:09.759 --> 00:30:12.400
I mean especially if you're too busy.
00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:12.960
Right.
00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:14.720
That's usually when people outsource.
00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:22.160
They're they've got too much going on, too much work to do, and they can't meet customer deadlines, and so they start outsourcing it to other shops so they can get it done.
00:30:22.400 --> 00:30:30.480
Or maybe there's you know, some features on the part that you can't machine due to what machines you have or inspection equipment you have or whatever.
00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:33.359
But yeah, I don't know.
00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:39.440
It's kind of weird to be outsourcing all of your work to where your own employees don't have enough work to do.
00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:45.200
Yeah, honestly, Brad's take of follow the work is not a bad one at all.
00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:58.480
If I I'll say this for for Connor here, I mean it's good on him for wanting to be busy, because I know plenty of people that would love to have a job where they can just show up and bum around.
00:30:59.119 --> 00:31:02.240
Um, so that's good.
00:31:02.400 --> 00:31:11.519
Uh, you know, if if it's otherwise a decent job, you know, hang around, work on, work on improving your skills, you know.
00:31:11.680 --> 00:31:15.759
Try to try to use that time for your advantage.
00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:24.079
But yeah, just tough it out, man, and see if it changes, or if you just can't take it, see if you can find where that work's going.
00:31:24.319 --> 00:31:24.640
Yeah.
00:31:24.880 --> 00:31:28.960
Get a mill in your garage and start being the guy they outsource to.
00:31:29.359 --> 00:31:30.400
That's a great idea.
00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:35.599
I mean, your overhead's gonna be stupid low, so you can charge a lot less than who they're working outsourcing to, most likely.
00:31:35.759 --> 00:31:37.759
Yeah, you can work for 20 bucks an hour, man.
00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:38.720
Come on.
00:31:39.920 --> 00:31:41.599
Race to the bottom, baby.
00:31:41.759 --> 00:31:42.400
Yeah.
00:31:43.759 --> 00:31:45.279
Gam, you got one?
00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:46.400
Uh yeah.
00:31:46.720 --> 00:31:55.759
Performance-driven design says or is wondering about best inventory maintenance of existing work holding fixtures, jaws, etc.
00:31:56.400 --> 00:31:57.680
Just remake them every time.
00:31:57.759 --> 00:31:58.559
That's what I do.
00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:04.799
And then and then six months from now, I'm like, fuck, I should have saved that one.
00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:05.599
Mm-hmm.
00:32:06.559 --> 00:32:08.720
We almost never remake soft jaws.
00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:09.839
I mean, depending on the part.
00:32:09.920 --> 00:32:18.240
There's some parts where we specifically machine a fresh set every time, but a lot of stuff, you know, you've got plus or minus 20 on the thickness of the part or whatever.
00:32:18.400 --> 00:32:19.839
There's no point in, yeah.
00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:22.720
We've got a nice place to store our soft jaws.
00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:31.039
So we've got one of those lever racks, if you've ever seen those, where it's like a pallet rack with a bunch of shelves inside of it that are like perpendicular if you're looking at it.
00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:31.440
Yeah.
00:32:31.680 --> 00:32:39.599
And they have there's basically one empty shelf's worth, so you can slide the shelves left and right and walk in between and grab whatever.
00:32:39.759 --> 00:32:46.720
So we've got, you know, we got a lot of diameter soft jaws, and so we have those stored in order from you know, smallest to biggest.
00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:54.880
And then we have part-specific soft jaws, so we've got a section for that, and then we have a section for gripper jaws, and it sounds really neatly organized.
00:32:55.039 --> 00:32:57.200
It's not, it needs to be organized a little better.
00:32:57.440 --> 00:33:06.079
But um, so yeah, there's a spot for like gripper jaws, you got like mighty bite versus grips and whatever shop made grip gripper jaws, so it's all in one place.
00:33:06.319 --> 00:33:13.279
I also have a um like a tackle box container for all the different little Mighty Byte parts that go in those jaws.
00:33:13.519 --> 00:33:22.559
So you got like the heavy duty versus grips and then the lighter duty versus grips and the serrated strips that go in the Sarah jaws and all that, and the screws and whatever.
00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:24.400
So I've got all that stuff in there.
00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:36.079
Um, and then I got a section for smaller fixtures, and then I've got some some other racks around the shop that are designed for not designed, they're just racks, but that are designated for larger fixtures.
00:33:36.160 --> 00:33:50.960
And I have the shelves labeled um fr dash, so fixture rack is FR dash one, so that's rack one-a-b or c for the different shelves or D.
00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:58.880
And then you can put on your setup sheet, you know, fixture is at FR1 dash or FR-1-C.
00:33:59.359 --> 00:34:02.799
So then you know that's what shelf it's on, and you can go right over there to it.
00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:05.279
Um, so that's what we do.
00:34:05.599 --> 00:34:07.119
You could definitely get more in depth with it.
00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:11.760
I know shops that have like massive amounts of fixtures.
00:34:11.840 --> 00:34:18.000
I mean, they have entire fixture management systems just for keeping track of it all.
00:34:18.320 --> 00:34:20.960
But you know, we don't we're not that large a scale.
00:34:21.280 --> 00:34:24.400
The big shop I worked at did something similar to you.
00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:30.079
I mean, they had a room for fixtures, and then yeah, I mean, they probably had a hundred racks, and it was the same thing.
00:34:30.159 --> 00:34:37.760
It was they had, you know, every rack was labeled, and then each section was labeled, so then when you pick up your setup sheet, you knew exactly where to go pick it up.
00:34:38.159 --> 00:34:41.039
Yeah, and then they were all laser engraved.
00:34:41.360 --> 00:34:50.320
Um, it was all mill stuff, so it was typically Jaws, and then the master draw always had a datum point you could pick up on, and it was laser engraved, so you knew.
00:34:50.960 --> 00:34:51.599
Yeah.
00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:55.039
Yeah, that's honestly similar.
00:34:55.280 --> 00:35:05.039
I mean, we don't have any kind of organization here, but at my previous job, yeah, we we had a whole shelf with uh that we could put dividers in.
00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:07.440
And it was just like what Cam was talking about.
00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:10.960
It was like, you know, it was almost like a table.
00:35:11.199 --> 00:35:18.480
It was like, you know, shelf A, row one, or shelf B, row two, whatever, column two, whatever.
00:35:18.639 --> 00:35:21.519
And then we had a uh spreadsheet that matched it.
00:35:21.679 --> 00:35:28.159
And it, you know, you could sort it by customer, you could sort it by, you know, where it was or whatever, and have a description.
00:35:28.400 --> 00:35:45.519
The biggest thing with any of that is you got to have accountability for who runs it or you know, who keeps it up, and make sure your guys, your setup guys or your you know, operators or whoever are bringing the fixtures back, make sure they're putting them back right.
00:35:45.760 --> 00:35:46.079
Yeah.
00:35:46.559 --> 00:35:51.199
In the case of the person that asked this question, I think he's a owner operator.
00:35:51.440 --> 00:35:53.039
So that shouldn't be a problem.
00:35:53.199 --> 00:36:02.000
But when you have like eight operators, ten operators, twenty operators moving stuff in and out, it it it can become a pain real quick.
00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:07.119
Putting the actual location on the fixture of where it belongs to that too.
00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:12.880
So anybody can anybody anywhere can pick that fixture up and be like, oh, this needs to be a rack one shelf C.
00:36:13.519 --> 00:36:14.159
Yep.
00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:20.239
And you know, once a year, once every six months, go through it.
00:36:20.639 --> 00:36:27.599
And it might not even be a bad idea to put like a last use date on your spreadsheet.
00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:28.159
Yeah.
00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:35.280
That way, if you say, okay, I haven't used this in a year, I'm gonna pull this out and make room for something else.
00:36:35.519 --> 00:36:47.199
Uh because we had at one point, we had, I want to say the shelf was like eight feet wide, and we had like six or seven rows on it, and it got full.
00:36:47.440 --> 00:36:51.920
And at that point, it's like, okay, some of this stuff doesn't need to be on here.
00:36:52.159 --> 00:36:52.480
Yeah.
00:36:52.800 --> 00:36:59.599
And I'll be honest, eventually it got to where I decided I'm just we're not gonna keep anything that's not like higher value fixture.
00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:05.360
You know, a single, a pair of like two by one by six soft jaws, whatever.
00:37:05.519 --> 00:37:09.360
Yeah, 20 bucks for monster jaws, we'll just, you know, whatever.
00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:19.039
But if it's something more in depth, like a fixture that goes in the vice or on the table or mighty bite fixture, big jaws, that kind of thing, yeah, it's a little different.
00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:23.840
Yeah, I kind of I mean, well, we don't typically never mind.
00:37:24.719 --> 00:37:26.159
It's not a good rule.
00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:28.320
Well, it would be a good rule if you implement it.
00:37:28.480 --> 00:37:33.519
So basically, if you have to charge to make the fixturing, then keep the fix string.
00:37:34.559 --> 00:37:40.159
So if it requires enough of your time to design it and machine it and buy material for it, then hang on to it.
00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:48.079
Or if it requires enough of your time and enough cost to justify charging that to the customer, then yeah, hold on to it.
00:37:48.159 --> 00:37:55.840
But if it's something like you know, throwing a parallel between some soft jaws and machining it real quick, it takes you 10 minutes and whatever.
00:37:56.079 --> 00:37:56.639
Yeah, yeah.
00:37:56.880 --> 00:37:57.440
That's my issue.
00:37:57.599 --> 00:38:14.400
Most of my shit's not coming back, and if it does it's gonna come back once a year where it's a soft jaw, it's easier just uh throw new ones in there, machine it, and I know exactly where my location is, and there's yeah, and then I use in soft jaws 40 times after that till there's nothing left.
00:38:14.639 --> 00:38:15.119
Yep.
00:38:15.440 --> 00:38:17.280
We've machine it to the visor accident.
00:38:17.440 --> 00:38:19.440
Yep, we've done that many times.
00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:22.960
Yeah do you do you guys buy jaws or you make them?
00:38:23.199 --> 00:38:23.920
I buy them.
00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:25.519
Oh, really?
00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:27.119
Brad, I wouldn't think you would make them.
00:38:27.280 --> 00:38:36.800
I wouldn't I only I only buy I buy either one by two or inch and a quarter by two, and I don't even machine, I just put the fucking holes in them.
00:38:37.039 --> 00:38:38.320
I don't machine around or anything.
00:38:38.559 --> 00:38:41.679
If he machining fresh every time, it doesn't matter if the outside is nice.
00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:43.119
Sotra on the end.
00:38:43.760 --> 00:38:48.800
Yeah, we reuse ours all the time, so I buy them from Monster Jaws.
00:38:48.960 --> 00:38:56.320
Yeah, they're already they're fully machined on the outside, so when you put them back in, it's easy to make sure they're sitting all the way flat against the bottom of the vice, and they'll be right where you left them.
00:38:56.400 --> 00:39:01.679
So if I was to get into that where I'm like, okay, I'm gonna start saving these, I'd probably buy them like that just so you know.
00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:03.519
Yeah, we used to make them.
00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:19.119
I remember standing there at the footall running those freaking things, but there were after I remember when I first found them online, I was like, holy shit, somebody makes these machine soft jaws you can just buy, and it's actually affordable too.
00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:29.039
Yeah, like we actually we did the math, and between the buying material, buying a whole bunch of two by two bar, because we always do two by two jaws, and uh like cutting them all.
00:39:29.119 --> 00:39:48.000
We didn't have a CNC bandsaw back then, so you were standing at the bandsaw, running it, cutting all of them, and then taking it all over to the food, drilling and counterboarding all the holes, hand deburring them, and you know, all that time involved there, it was way cheaper to just buy 20 buy them for 20 bucks a piece, 25 bucks a piece.
00:39:48.079 --> 00:39:51.760
They're a little more expensive now, but it's still we got parts to make.
00:39:51.840 --> 00:39:52.960
I don't have time to be making jaws.
00:39:53.360 --> 00:39:54.239
I'm not doing that.
00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:55.199
Oh, yeah.
00:39:55.519 --> 00:40:00.960
My issue always is too when I need them, like I gotta go get the bar, I gotta cut it, I gotta make them.
00:40:01.119 --> 00:40:02.480
I never make enough.
00:40:02.639 --> 00:40:04.559
I always just make a set that I need.
00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:11.360
Well, see, that's exactly why I buy them, because then I I keep them stocked on the shelf, and once we get down to like three or four sets left, I order ten more.
00:40:11.440 --> 00:40:11.840
Yep.
00:40:12.719 --> 00:40:13.920
So okay.
00:40:14.159 --> 00:40:16.719
Um Flurryan.
00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:18.480
This is just kind of a funny.
00:40:18.800 --> 00:40:22.719
Uh his comment was, you're sending all those out for regrind, right?
00:40:23.119 --> 00:40:30.719
So I think he was referring to uh doll end mills or something I'd put on my story that day.
00:40:31.199 --> 00:40:36.239
But it made me start thinking about something I just want to fuss about.
00:40:38.239 --> 00:40:44.159
Yeah, I'm sure you guys have probably seen Donnie Hitzkey's video about uh like reducing your carbide usage.
00:40:44.559 --> 00:40:51.119
Um because we all know like carbide's gone through the roof, you know, end mills have gone way up, scraps gone way up.
00:40:51.760 --> 00:40:53.840
And it was a really interesting video.
00:40:54.320 --> 00:41:03.119
Um but there were so many comments that I've seen where it's where people are like, why aren't you regrinding your end mills?
00:41:04.639 --> 00:41:07.599
And I kind of get it.
00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:15.039
You know, if you got an old head and you actually have a tool and cutter grinder in the shop, maybe, but yeah.
00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:16.400
Yeah.
00:41:16.880 --> 00:41:18.960
I just don't I can't get behind that.
00:41:19.039 --> 00:41:22.480
I mean just re grinding end mills?
00:41:22.960 --> 00:41:23.280
Right.
00:41:23.440 --> 00:41:26.639
It just I would do it, but only for roughing tools.
00:41:27.199 --> 00:41:27.840
Yeah.
00:41:28.159 --> 00:41:35.360
I mean with the cost of car, like with let's see, some half-inch five flute chip breakers.
00:41:36.639 --> 00:41:39.119
I used to get them for 90 bucks a piece.
00:41:39.519 --> 00:41:41.840
Now I'm at like 160 a piece.
00:41:42.960 --> 00:41:45.199
So yeah, they're getting expensive.
00:41:45.360 --> 00:41:47.920
I mean, if you're running aluminum all the time, then yeah, I just buy new tools.
00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:53.039
But if you're wearing through tools all the time, like it's it's starting to get kind of expensive.
00:41:53.199 --> 00:41:56.079
Granted, I mean, the the cost should be built into the job.
00:41:57.280 --> 00:42:00.880
So, you know, you should be raising your prices a little bit to compensate for it.
00:42:01.440 --> 00:42:07.360
But I don't I don't think at this point I would blame anybody for getting like roughers reground and recoded.
00:42:07.519 --> 00:42:18.320
You know, say it's 30, 40 bucks for that and it leaves three thousandths more material on the part, maybe five thousandths more material on a wall, you know, then that's not a huge deal.
00:42:18.559 --> 00:42:22.559
Granted, I'd have to change, you know, some of my programming if we were rerun stuff.
00:42:22.639 --> 00:42:31.119
So it can get complicated if you have like fixed programs already dialed in, you're making the same parts again for repeat jobs.
00:42:31.280 --> 00:42:32.559
And I don't know, maybe not.
00:42:32.639 --> 00:42:34.719
And maybe it doesn't perform as well as a new one, too.
00:42:34.880 --> 00:42:38.400
Although I've heard of people talking about regrounds performing better than the new ones.
00:42:38.559 --> 00:42:40.639
So I I used to work at a shop.
00:42:40.719 --> 00:42:42.960
Well, it was high-speed SteoE reground.
00:42:43.440 --> 00:42:45.519
It was they never performed as well.
00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:47.280
This was 20 years ago, Pat.
00:42:48.480 --> 00:42:49.440
I love it.
00:42:49.760 --> 00:42:59.039
But the only thing that was nice was we would do uh a lot of our dies would have core pins in them.
00:42:59.119 --> 00:43:03.760
So when you got a reground end mill, you'd end up with a diameter that was perfect for a core pin head.
00:43:03.920 --> 00:43:04.400
Oh, nice.
00:43:04.559 --> 00:43:12.480
So, like if you had a random ass core pin that had like a 343 head and you reground a 375, you'd end up at like 360, so it was perfect.
00:43:13.199 --> 00:43:13.599
Yeah.
00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:14.639
That was awesome.
00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:15.920
That was the only thing.
00:43:16.079 --> 00:43:19.039
But then uh after a while, your flute length would change too.
00:43:19.119 --> 00:43:28.639
So you'd have a three-quarter inch flute length, all of a sudden that's like 625 or half inch, and then you're just starting to get yeah, and see that's exactly why I don't want to deal with reground end mills.
00:43:28.719 --> 00:43:31.039
I don't want those variables to be added in.
00:43:31.440 --> 00:43:32.559
You never know what you can get.
00:43:32.639 --> 00:43:38.400
You can send out you can send out 10 half inch end mills, and you're gonna you're gonna end up with 10 different sizes when you get them back.
00:43:38.719 --> 00:43:42.880
Yeah, I think you can someone's probably gonna be like, No, you fucking you don't know what you're doing.
00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:46.800
You probably specify like I want these all at 450, which yeah.
00:43:47.039 --> 00:43:48.480
Whatever I ain't got time for that either.
00:43:48.559 --> 00:43:50.960
I don't want to measure my end mills when I put them in the machine.
00:43:51.280 --> 00:43:52.079
May either.
00:43:52.400 --> 00:43:58.159
I mean once it's two fifty for a half inch end mill, then maybe I'll do it.
00:43:58.320 --> 00:43:59.679
Yeah, but right.
00:44:00.880 --> 00:44:06.000
I I think we might see indexables come farther.
00:44:06.159 --> 00:44:13.199
I think you might see a bigger push on the development side for indexable tooling for that reason.
00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:15.519
I mean, less carbide, less cost.
00:44:16.159 --> 00:44:23.039
Um but yeah, I there was somebody that commented, I think it was on Donnie's video.
00:44:23.199 --> 00:44:27.679
It was like, why don't you just put that in your Anka cutter grinder?
00:44:28.079 --> 00:44:35.519
That's like a half a million dollar CNC, you know, grinding machine, like what Dave has or AB Tools has.
00:44:36.079 --> 00:44:38.480
Come on, man, get serious.
00:44:39.599 --> 00:44:45.039
I do really like the Iskar Multi-Master, the balls that I've been using lately.
00:44:45.199 --> 00:44:47.119
I can get two of them half-inch balls.
00:44:47.280 --> 00:44:52.159
I think when I bought them last, they're$89 for two of them.
00:44:52.800 --> 00:44:57.760
And the red line half-inch ball and Mozart buying were$125 for one.
00:44:57.920 --> 00:45:00.320
So I'm getting two for less than the cost of one.
00:45:00.559 --> 00:45:00.800
Yeah.
00:45:00.960 --> 00:45:05.199
I think that's how people are going to start compensating for the higher prices.
00:45:05.360 --> 00:45:06.400
You start buying stuff like that.
00:45:06.480 --> 00:45:06.559
Yeah.
00:45:06.639 --> 00:45:08.400
Because like a ball in mill, who needs the flutes?
00:45:08.559 --> 00:45:09.119
Yeah, I don't.
00:45:09.199 --> 00:45:10.480
And that was in it.
00:45:10.880 --> 00:45:11.280
Yeah.
00:45:11.440 --> 00:45:22.639
I very rarely I think I could count on one hand the amount of times I've used a flute on a ball in mill, and that's because it was a radius that matched the radius of the ball and mill went up into a wall, so I just finished them both at the same time.
00:45:22.719 --> 00:45:23.039
Yep.
00:45:23.280 --> 00:45:24.320
But I almost never do that.
00:45:24.559 --> 00:45:25.360
No, I don't either.
00:45:25.440 --> 00:45:33.039
I usually, if I'm if I'm doing a radius and do a vertical wall, I'll usually comp it out like a thou just so it doesn't touch and rub.
00:45:33.280 --> 00:45:34.320
Yeah, exactly.
00:45:34.480 --> 00:45:34.800
Yeah.
00:45:34.960 --> 00:45:36.000
So I don't know.
00:45:36.159 --> 00:45:44.800
I don't think uh I don't think buying them with a with the flutes really makes a lot of sense if you can get them for half the price and just use the part that you need.
00:45:44.960 --> 00:45:45.440
Yeah.
00:45:45.920 --> 00:46:05.280
Granted, the issue the thing I don't like about that stuff is like once you get you know certain shanks from a certain company, the end mills that screw into those shanks, you're kind of stuck with that until you buy shanks, or if you buy shanks from a different company, because you say you need say you want like a high feed mill tip that screws in there, but this company doesn't make it.
00:46:05.360 --> 00:46:19.920
Now I gotta buy this other shank because the company that makes the high feed doesn't screw into the his car shank I already have, even though like there's all those companies that are really under the same umbrella, they still all have different threads, different connection types on those screw and end mills.
00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:20.400
I don't know.
00:46:20.480 --> 00:46:22.159
That's that kind of thing pisses me off.
00:46:22.239 --> 00:46:29.039
Like here's a standard that way I can use anybody's shit in the shanks that I have, but you're not gonna do that because then you're not gonna buy their shanks.
00:46:29.119 --> 00:46:30.719
So right, yeah.
00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:31.440
Oh yeah.
00:46:31.599 --> 00:46:32.639
All right, Brad.
00:46:32.880 --> 00:46:34.960
Bulldog Machine 509.
00:46:35.039 --> 00:46:41.199
How to convince a shop to start using macros and that CNCs can be used for job shops.
00:46:42.079 --> 00:46:45.599
I don't know how you can convince them to use macros because I don't use macros.
00:46:47.199 --> 00:46:49.360
I think it's more of a turn and type thing.
00:46:49.599 --> 00:46:53.440
I mean, I know you can do a little bit in mills, but I haven't found a use for them yet.
00:46:53.920 --> 00:46:58.400
I I mean CNCs can be used in any shop, it doesn't matter if you're doing one part or 50.
00:46:58.719 --> 00:47:03.199
I'm a job, I'm technically a job shop and I don't have any manual equipment.
00:47:03.360 --> 00:47:05.360
I do, but it's disconnected.
00:47:06.159 --> 00:47:06.800
Yeah.
00:47:07.039 --> 00:47:09.360
I mean, we are strictly a job shop.
00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:14.559
We almost never do production and we only use CNCs.
00:47:15.119 --> 00:47:16.639
Why would I stand at a machine?
00:47:16.880 --> 00:47:19.039
Yeah, I got a fucking robot right there.
00:47:19.280 --> 00:47:19.920
Right.
00:47:21.119 --> 00:47:23.119
Program the robot and let it do the work, you know.
00:47:23.599 --> 00:47:28.880
I mean, I can have I can have three machines running at one time, sometimes four or five.
00:47:29.199 --> 00:47:34.000
So I'm running currently myself, I'm machining three, four, or five jobs at one time.
00:47:34.079 --> 00:47:34.480
Yeah.
00:47:34.800 --> 00:47:37.840
Versus doing something at a manual mill, which is slower.
00:47:38.559 --> 00:47:43.199
And yeah, I mean, there's a whole other host of it issues that come with doing it on a manual mill.
00:47:43.519 --> 00:47:46.159
So it's to get into.
00:47:46.239 --> 00:48:00.079
So if you're at one of those manual shops that's just like they don't know CNC, they don't know how it works, they don't understand it, and it's like a huge investment for them to get in to CNC, then I could see them you know being hesitant to do it.
00:48:00.239 --> 00:48:03.679
But if you get into it and you figure it out, you're not gonna go back.
00:48:04.079 --> 00:48:04.719
Mm-hmm.
00:48:05.599 --> 00:48:24.719
I mean, I think we've we've hit a point where uh if if the guy at the machine pretty well knows what he's doing, you can do a lot of things faster on a CNC machine than especially a mill lathes, it depends on what you're doing, but versus versa manual.
00:48:25.119 --> 00:48:29.199
But you know, your bridge ports are still going to come in handy for repair stuff.
00:48:29.360 --> 00:48:32.159
You get some if you're into that kind of thing, right?
00:48:32.239 --> 00:48:32.639
Not all shops.
00:48:34.559 --> 00:48:34.880
Right.
00:48:35.039 --> 00:49:02.239
You know, not all shops do repair work, so there may not be a point, but if you, you know, somebody brings you a tractor part or any any kind of industrial equipment that isn't gonna fit in your enclosure, but it'll fit on a bridgeport table, go to town, or you can hang it off the table, or you can swivel the ram around, move the turret, all this crap, you know, instead of some kind of crazy setup on a CNC.
00:49:02.960 --> 00:49:08.800
Um but it just it really depends on the work you're doing.
00:49:08.960 --> 00:49:11.360
If you can do things very quick.
00:49:11.440 --> 00:49:19.199
If you have probes and you have somebody that's you know reasonably skilled at the machine, you can do things quick on a CNC.
00:49:19.599 --> 00:49:33.920
I I think there's older folks in the trade, uh like elder Gen Xers, boomers, that kind of thing, they have this pre this this sort of preconception that CNCs are only for production, right?
00:49:34.079 --> 00:49:38.239
Therefore, when you have 10, 50, 100, thousands of parts to make.
00:49:39.360 --> 00:49:45.280
But I think some of that comes from you're tackling these parts with manual thinking.
00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:49.840
So you're like Kenny's Kenny's dad, for example.
00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:59.679
You know, you're going at a part with a half-inch end mill running a thousand RPM, you know, taking wide deep cuts, going at it slow.
00:49:59.840 --> 00:50:04.320
So your cycle time really isn't any faster when you could go at it a much different way.
00:50:04.480 --> 00:50:08.559
You could go at it with HEM type work or whatever.
00:50:09.840 --> 00:50:25.840
But it just and as Cam said, you can have two or three running at the same time if if you're not in that spot where you're like, you got a shop full of bridge ports and and horizontals and engine lathes and you're slowly moving into CNC work.
00:50:26.960 --> 00:50:34.239
Um I actually want to congratulate a friend of mine, Alec Jolly, job shop machining on Instagram, because he just recently took that step.
00:50:34.400 --> 00:50:36.719
Uh his dad's always been a manual shop.
00:50:36.880 --> 00:50:42.719
They just recently got a I can't remember what brand, but they just recently got it.
00:50:42.960 --> 00:50:44.320
Uh Miltronics, sorry.
00:50:44.559 --> 00:50:45.280
Yep, that's it.
00:50:45.440 --> 00:50:50.800
He just recently got uh a CNC mill, and I'm super excited for him.
00:50:51.199 --> 00:50:51.519
Yeah.
00:50:51.760 --> 00:51:06.800
No, it's one of those uh I mean, it's like an open cabinet CNC mill where it's you can do a whole bunch of conversational programming, which I think is kind of the perfect step if you're if you're because it's just him and his dad working there, and they've both always been manual machinists, have no CNC experience.
00:51:06.960 --> 00:51:10.800
So jumping into CNC is probably a really good stepping stone for them.
00:51:11.039 --> 00:51:11.519
Oh yeah.
00:51:11.760 --> 00:51:16.000
And once you add capability to your shop, it changes the way you see everything.
00:51:16.239 --> 00:51:16.800
Yeah.
00:51:17.039 --> 00:51:20.880
I mean, it's even three to four to five access difference.
00:51:21.360 --> 00:51:21.760
Yeah.
00:51:22.800 --> 00:51:23.360
Yeah.
00:51:23.599 --> 00:51:24.159
Yeah.
00:51:24.400 --> 00:51:28.719
I know you had a huge like instance of that when you got your umc.
00:51:29.039 --> 00:51:30.800
It's changed your thinking on everything.
00:51:31.119 --> 00:51:38.880
I mean, I I don't even want to put a part of my vertical anymore because it's just like just all your four ops when I can do it in one.
00:51:39.280 --> 00:51:39.840
Right.
00:51:40.079 --> 00:51:42.559
Except just keep one machine for making JAWS.
00:51:42.880 --> 00:51:43.519
Yeah.
00:51:44.239 --> 00:51:46.000
I should have kept that VF2 for that.
00:51:46.079 --> 00:51:47.119
That would have been perfect.
00:51:47.440 --> 00:51:49.280
JAWS stock prep.
00:51:49.519 --> 00:51:49.760
Yeah.
00:51:49.920 --> 00:51:51.360
Oh, what what happened to your VF2?
00:51:51.599 --> 00:51:53.599
Where did uh get grow legs and walk off?
00:51:53.679 --> 00:51:56.719
I'm gonna call that trucking company and tell them to go pick it back up.
00:51:59.599 --> 00:52:04.800
Oh non payment machine you should have thrown that late on that truck too.
00:52:06.480 --> 00:52:08.800
Hey, your payment will be there tomorrow.
00:52:09.039 --> 00:52:14.639
Um, so now his question was how do you convince an employer?
00:52:14.800 --> 00:52:18.239
And honestly, it goes back to what we talked about earlier.
00:52:18.639 --> 00:52:20.639
You know, try to prove it.
00:52:20.800 --> 00:52:29.920
Yeah, you know, but like with a it's not like you can just go out and buy a CNC machine to put into somebody else's building, obviously.
00:52:30.320 --> 00:52:35.199
Um with macros, I think it's a case where you just need to prove it out.
00:52:35.280 --> 00:52:36.559
Yeah, try it.
00:52:36.960 --> 00:52:40.880
One, I mean, something that can help, honestly, is finding videos of this stuff.
00:52:41.119 --> 00:52:51.679
You know, if you can find a video of someone doing it and showing how it works and like showing how much faster or more efficient or easier it is, and show that to the people that you need to convince that could help.
00:52:51.840 --> 00:52:58.719
I mean, that's what I used to do before I got to a position where I'm basically running the shop and I just buy whatever I want for the shop.
00:52:59.119 --> 00:53:03.519
Um I would find YouTube videos and stuff like that and be like, hey, check this out.
00:53:03.599 --> 00:53:04.159
This is a good idea.
00:53:04.239 --> 00:53:05.199
We should start doing this kind of thing.
00:53:05.280 --> 00:53:06.400
Like chip breaker end mills.
00:53:06.480 --> 00:53:07.360
That's how we got into that.
00:53:07.519 --> 00:53:09.039
I found a video of someone running chipbreakers.
00:53:09.119 --> 00:53:09.760
It's like, check this out.
00:53:09.840 --> 00:53:11.039
And he was like, Holy shit, that's nice.
00:53:11.119 --> 00:53:12.880
You don't have chips piling up everywhere.
00:53:13.119 --> 00:53:14.000
Let's try that.
00:53:14.159 --> 00:53:35.599
So we went from running a four-flute end mill at 7,000 RPM and you know, 70 inches a minute to five flute chip breaker running their feeds and speeds at 8,100 rpm and 50,000 step over an inch and a half depth of cut and 200 inches a minute and hauling ass and not having to deal with chips, not recutting chips and tearing up end mills, whatever.
00:53:35.760 --> 00:53:37.760
So sometimes that can help.
00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:37.920
Yeah.
00:53:38.079 --> 00:53:42.960
And as far as using macros, uh, I think that's very case specific.
00:53:43.039 --> 00:53:53.360
You know, like say you don't have cam software that you can use and you're doing like conversational stuff, and you know how to use macros for you know bolt circles and stuff like that, then I think it could be helpful there.
00:53:53.440 --> 00:53:56.480
But if you're using cam software, I don't think they're quite as useful.
00:53:56.639 --> 00:54:01.039
I use them sometimes for probing and like part counting and stuff, but that's about it.
00:54:01.119 --> 00:54:01.519
Yeah.
00:54:01.920 --> 00:54:07.360
Well, back on what you said going on YouTube, there's this great machine and channel on YouTube.
00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:10.400
You're probably listening to us on it right now, practical machinists.
00:54:10.559 --> 00:54:11.840
Go check it out.
00:54:12.880 --> 00:54:13.519
Yep.
00:54:14.480 --> 00:54:23.119
If you're not already familiar, actually, you know, I always forget, you know, the the guys on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
00:54:23.280 --> 00:54:26.400
So, you know, yeah, make sure you're checking out YouTube.
00:54:26.800 --> 00:54:29.840
We we do try to put out some cool stuff.
00:54:31.360 --> 00:54:33.840
Um, Cam, your turn.
00:54:34.159 --> 00:54:38.719
L L Y R Thomas says tool management.
00:54:39.039 --> 00:54:42.320
So there's a lot you can do there.
00:54:42.400 --> 00:54:46.960
I don't know if they're talking about physical tool management or a digital library.
00:54:47.519 --> 00:54:51.519
Or I don't know why that's tickling me so bad.
00:54:51.760 --> 00:54:52.800
Oh my goodness.
00:54:53.039 --> 00:54:53.760
Sorry.
00:54:54.079 --> 00:55:06.079
Um I'm guessing probably like managing your tool inventory, uh, keeping track of things, and yeah, kind of like the fixtures we talked about earlier.
00:55:07.119 --> 00:55:09.760
Same principle with tooling, let's say.
00:55:10.159 --> 00:55:12.000
You have a great system for that, Cam.
00:55:12.079 --> 00:55:13.840
I haven't seen that anywhere else.
00:55:14.159 --> 00:55:14.639
Yeah.
00:55:14.960 --> 00:55:21.199
I think somebody that knows what they're doing with technology could really improve it and make it better.
00:55:21.519 --> 00:55:25.360
Um, I didn't use any AI for mine, so it's pretty basic.
00:55:26.000 --> 00:55:27.360
I saw a video the other day.
00:55:27.519 --> 00:55:38.000
Somebody uh they used Claude to create a program on their computer that will, I guess, take the information out of Fusion for whatever your tool setup is.
00:55:38.159 --> 00:55:48.400
Or no, sorry, they store all I think they store all of their tool information in that software, and then that software can push it into Fusion or one or the other.
00:55:48.480 --> 00:55:50.719
But then it also makes their tool tags and all that stuff.
00:55:50.960 --> 00:55:53.920
So I guess whenever you need to do a job, you can just print out all your tool tags.
00:55:54.000 --> 00:56:00.800
It's got your what specific tool holder you need, what specific tool you need, what the stick out needs to be, all that stuff.
00:56:01.039 --> 00:56:04.559
So after seeing that, I was like, damn, I need to start doing some some digging.
00:56:04.719 --> 00:56:10.159
But, anyways, um, I have a digital library on Google Sheets.
00:56:10.400 --> 00:56:14.800
I like that because it's I can pull it up anywhere, easy to easy to modify, whatever.
00:56:14.960 --> 00:56:17.360
It's not an Excel document living on one computer.
00:56:17.519 --> 00:56:19.280
Anyone can pull it up anywhere.
00:56:19.599 --> 00:56:33.199
Um, and that the digital library tool library that I have, you know, it's got all the basic information you would want for a tool, like you know, whether it's a mill or a lathe tool, what kind of tool it is.
00:56:33.440 --> 00:56:36.400
So I made a drop-down box, you can define all that stuff.
00:56:36.559 --> 00:56:44.719
Um, then you put in the like the title of the tool, the manufacturer, the dimensions, the link, the purchase link, what vendor you get it from.
00:56:44.960 --> 00:56:54.159
And then in the the in the real world where I store all of the tools, I have like a list, list of style cabinet with all the drawer dividers and stuff.
00:56:54.320 --> 00:56:55.199
I just print a label.
00:56:55.360 --> 00:56:57.840
I can pull the label from that spreadsheet to print it.
00:56:58.000 --> 00:57:01.119
Um, each tool has its own numbers, so they all get put in number order.
00:57:01.199 --> 00:57:04.079
I don't do it in order by size, I do it in order by number.
00:57:04.159 --> 00:57:07.760
So as I get a new tool, whatever the next empty number is, that's where it goes.
00:57:07.920 --> 00:57:16.480
So I'm not I don't have to worry about running out of room for you know half-inch end mills or three eighths end mills and then trying to figure out where I'm gonna store it or reorganize it all or whatever.
00:57:16.639 --> 00:57:18.480
It just is an infinitely scalable thing.
00:57:18.559 --> 00:57:19.840
That's what I wanted.
00:57:20.159 --> 00:57:26.320
Um so and also, you know, you might be thinking, well, then how the hell do you find a tool whenever you need it?
00:57:26.480 --> 00:57:30.159
Because a lot of people want to just open a drawer and see half-inch end mills and grab one.
00:57:30.400 --> 00:57:36.320
Um, whenever you are going through your setup sheet, that library number, I call it a library number.
00:57:36.400 --> 00:57:40.880
So whatever that number is, it coincides with the tool is a library number that is put on the setup sheet.
00:57:40.960 --> 00:57:43.599
So tool 12 is going to be library number 76.
00:57:43.760 --> 00:57:51.199
And then I have my setup sheets also on Google Sheets, and also it'll auto-populate the tool information when you type that library number in.
00:57:51.519 --> 00:57:54.400
So tool 12 is library number 76.
00:57:54.559 --> 00:57:58.079
You can see what holder I want, what stick out I want.
00:57:58.320 --> 00:58:07.039
And you just go through, open the drawer that would have tool 76, grab tool 76, and a tool tag out of there, put it in the holder, and you're on your way.
00:58:07.280 --> 00:58:09.519
Um, but I really like doing it like that.
00:58:09.599 --> 00:58:15.760
And then in Fusion or whatever your CAM software is you're using, you should be able to put some sort of comment designator somewhere.
00:58:15.920 --> 00:58:19.679
Um, I do L76, for example.
00:58:19.840 --> 00:58:21.519
So that's library number 76.
00:58:21.599 --> 00:58:25.440
So the comment there, and then I have the um the tool library.
00:58:25.519 --> 00:58:27.760
When you open it up, you can change the columns.
00:58:27.920 --> 00:58:29.360
You can you can modify the columns.
00:58:29.440 --> 00:58:38.960
So the I have the tool number, the tool name or description, and then next to that I have the library number, the comment column.
00:58:39.199 --> 00:58:41.599
So whenever I'm building my setup sheet, I just go down the list.
00:58:41.840 --> 00:58:44.480
Tool one is whatever, tool two is whatever.
00:58:44.559 --> 00:58:48.079
I can just type in all my numbers and then it's all auto-populated there.
00:58:48.239 --> 00:58:54.079
But you do have to make sure that your uh digital library matches with fusion.
00:58:54.559 --> 00:59:07.679
But at this point, what I usually do is I create the the tool in the digital library first on that spreadsheet, and then as I go to create it in Fusion, I just copy and paste everything into Fusion and then make sure to throw that library number in there.
00:59:07.760 --> 00:59:09.039
So it's really easy to maintain.
00:59:09.119 --> 00:59:13.840
Like when you get a new tool, it's stupid easy to add and print new labels and all that stuff for it.
00:59:14.079 --> 00:59:16.000
Um, but that's great.
00:59:16.239 --> 00:59:25.519
I don't like uh I don't like the old way of just having everything in a drawer where you've got you know all your half-inch end mills sitting in one spot.
00:59:25.760 --> 00:59:40.559
So you've got to, you know, I mean, granted, you can organize it better, so the way that we did it probably wasn't great, but um I know a lot of places will just be like, oh, you need a three foot, a three-flute, you know, non-ferris end mill for this.
00:59:41.119 --> 00:59:46.719
And they'll just have a bunch of you know, whatever three-flute aluminum end mill you can find, you throw it in there and run it.
00:59:46.880 --> 00:59:48.320
And I don't know.
00:59:48.559 --> 00:59:53.519
It's yeah and all, but if I'm running feeds and speeds for a specific tool, I want that specific tool in there.
00:59:53.840 --> 00:59:55.039
Yeah, for sure.
00:59:55.199 --> 00:59:58.960
It it needs in in a situation like that, it needs to be controlled.
00:59:59.280 --> 01:00:03.280
Um, what do you do for like specialty tools?
01:00:03.360 --> 01:00:07.599
Like, let's say you need a random key seat cutter for one job.
01:00:07.760 --> 01:00:08.800
What do you do with it?
01:00:09.039 --> 01:00:10.480
I build it in the tool library.
01:00:10.559 --> 01:00:13.119
Then whenever we're done using it for that one job, it goes in there.
01:00:13.360 --> 01:00:14.239
We'll keep it forever.
01:00:15.119 --> 01:00:21.760
Then whenever I need it, then whenever I need it in five years from now, I just go look at my key seat cutters because I can filter my library.
01:00:22.079 --> 01:00:23.679
So I filter it to key seat cutters.
01:00:23.760 --> 01:00:29.519
I'm like, oh shit, I've got a inch and a half by quarter inch full radius key seat cutter in there from five years ago.
01:00:29.679 --> 01:00:30.400
Perfect.
01:00:30.719 --> 01:00:34.880
I put mine right here, my key seat cutters right here, and I hope I can find them.
01:00:35.039 --> 01:00:41.039
And when I can't, I have carbide cutting tools remake me another one, and then I get it eight months later.
01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:43.679
I knew that was coming.
01:00:44.639 --> 01:00:55.599
Uh okay, that's good to know because that was always I tried to develop something like that at my last job, and that the oddball tools was always the hard one.
01:00:55.840 --> 01:01:17.760
Because we, well, you guys remember, you know, that I always wanted to get a uh cabinet or toolbox or something to put all my tools in uh that were in the office, because we had probably$30,000, probably$50,000 now worth of just random crap everywhere, random specialty end mills, key seed cutters, drills, you know, taps, all this stuff.
01:01:18.000 --> 01:01:19.199
And yeah.
01:01:19.599 --> 01:01:26.960
A lot of times it was easier to just buy a new one instead of spend 30 minutes rooting around trying to find that's the position we were in, too.
01:01:27.519 --> 01:01:28.880
And I got so sick of it.
01:01:29.280 --> 01:01:32.800
Really, especially with like really long drills.
01:01:32.880 --> 01:01:38.960
There's random parts that we need long drills for, and you can never find them when you needed them, spend a bunch of time looking for them.
01:01:39.039 --> 01:01:41.119
Then you hop on MSC, reorder them again.
01:01:41.280 --> 01:01:43.199
Now they're in the tool library.
01:01:44.079 --> 01:01:56.880
And whenever you look at that setup sheet from three years ago, it says, you know, tool 11 is library number 125, and you go there and there's your 2760 forks extra length drill that you need.
01:01:57.119 --> 01:02:03.119
And you know, that that part part of the or the critical part of this is having tool tags to go with the tool.
01:02:03.360 --> 01:02:09.280
So when you take that tool out, you take you know, tool tags live with the tool and it just clips onto the tool holder.
01:02:09.599 --> 01:02:13.039
So whenever you load it in the machine, you know, you have the tool tag there at your machine.
01:02:13.119 --> 01:02:15.920
When you take it back out, you put it back on the tool holder, you can put it on the rack.
01:02:16.079 --> 01:02:27.199
Whenever somebody goes to take that tool holder and put a new tool in it, they take out that old tool and they take that old tool and the tool tag from it, put it right back in the cabinet where where it came from.
01:02:27.360 --> 01:02:28.800
So that's the important part.
01:02:28.960 --> 01:02:32.639
But I mean, the nice thing about doing it on like Google Sheets, for example, is the flexibility.
01:02:32.719 --> 01:02:37.360
If I if I have a new style of tool, like an inserted chamfer mill, for example.
01:02:37.599 --> 01:02:40.800
You know, like how many people have run inserts, inserted chamfer mills.
01:02:40.960 --> 01:02:46.239
I needed one gigantic inserted chamfer mill for something, and I knew we'd use it in the future, so I got one.
01:02:46.559 --> 01:02:49.519
Adding it to the library, to the tool library, I didn't have a drop-down for it.
01:02:49.599 --> 01:02:51.920
I just hopped in there and created the drop-down two seconds.
01:02:52.000 --> 01:02:52.800
You just type it in.
01:02:52.880 --> 01:02:53.679
Boom, click it.
01:02:53.760 --> 01:02:54.480
Now you've got it.
01:02:54.719 --> 01:03:00.320
Type in all the tool information, add the link, the menu or the vendor you get it from, and you're done.
01:03:00.639 --> 01:03:07.840
So, and then also a nice thing there too, is you know, anybody you share that document with, you can decide whether they're just a viewer, they can edit it.
01:03:07.920 --> 01:03:10.559
So the computer on the shop, I'm the only one that can edit it.
01:03:10.719 --> 01:03:16.079
The computer on the shop floor that the guys use to look at the tool library, they're just views viewer only.
01:03:16.159 --> 01:03:17.840
So they can't mess anything up on there.
01:03:17.920 --> 01:03:27.519
They can't accidentally because it's real really easy on a spreadsheet like that to like accidentally click a cell that's got information and hit a letter or a number or something, and you don't even realize it.
01:03:27.760 --> 01:03:30.480
Um, so yeah, that's another thing.
01:03:30.800 --> 01:03:31.519
I like that.
01:03:31.679 --> 01:03:34.159
That's that's great, honestly.
01:03:35.760 --> 01:03:39.280
Yeah, I gives me some ideas.
01:03:39.599 --> 01:03:40.159
Yeah.
01:03:40.400 --> 01:03:46.800
Um, we had a vending machine at at Galleons, and that was nice, but the thing is that was only for stock tools.
01:03:47.039 --> 01:03:48.880
That's the thing I don't like about the vending machines.
01:03:49.039 --> 01:04:02.000
Yep, you you can either buy your own vending machine and stock it yourself, or you can get a vending machine through a company and they'll just provide the machine as long as you you know solely use that vendor to fill the machine.
01:04:02.159 --> 01:04:02.400
Yep.
01:04:02.639 --> 01:04:05.199
And I don't want to be stuck with only one vendor filling the machine.
01:04:05.280 --> 01:04:10.719
You know, not that I have a problem with certain vendors, I like them, but they only carry so many tools, you know.
01:04:10.880 --> 01:04:12.480
Everybody's line card is only so big.
01:04:12.559 --> 01:04:17.199
So whenever I need tools to be stocked that you don't have, I'm kind of screwed.
01:04:17.280 --> 01:04:20.960
I gotta figure out a new place for it, and then it doesn't get automatically reordered for me.
01:04:21.840 --> 01:04:32.320
So I know productivity has been trying to get me to go on theirs, which pisses me off because I order a lot of OSG tools and I can't buy them from them unless I'm on their fast track system.
01:04:33.280 --> 01:04:36.960
If I'm on their fast track system, I can do it, which is bullshit.
01:04:37.039 --> 01:04:45.519
Like you have the tools in stock, just let me fucking buy what's the fast track system that's their computer pro system that tracks all the tooling to reorder and stuff.
01:04:45.760 --> 01:04:48.000
I think it's called fast track, I don't remember.
01:04:48.239 --> 01:04:52.320
But you were to get the vending machine, you would be on fast track, yeah.
01:04:52.639 --> 01:05:05.039
Okay, but you can use from my understanding, I can use any tooling I want in there, like I can put my own shit in there and I can use a computer system to alert me to order it, it just won't automatically order from them.
01:05:05.360 --> 01:05:06.239
That's nice, yeah.
01:05:06.400 --> 01:05:08.800
Do they provide the cabinet as long as you use them?
01:05:09.119 --> 01:05:17.119
Um, I think you're supposed to buy a cabinet from them, and that was one thing I'm like, I'm not buying a$7,000 cabinet.
01:05:17.280 --> 01:05:22.960
Like, yeah, and that he has told me a couple times he said you can use what you have, we'll make it work.
01:05:23.199 --> 01:05:30.800
Yeah, but I also don't like the idea of somebody stocking my cabinet, and I have 15 tools that I'm like, oh, all right, cool, just throw that one out.
01:05:30.880 --> 01:05:32.159
Let's just start a new one.
01:05:32.400 --> 01:05:36.639
All of a sudden I'm gonna get a tool bill at the end of the month that I've never had before.
01:05:37.360 --> 01:05:42.719
Yeah, I mean I mean, I would assume you can decide when they reorder stuff, yeah.
01:05:42.880 --> 01:05:44.960
What quantity it gets reordered at.
01:05:45.039 --> 01:05:45.519
Yep.
01:05:45.760 --> 01:05:48.559
And what gets stocked, how many gets ordered every time.
01:05:48.719 --> 01:05:49.360
Yeah.
01:05:49.599 --> 01:05:54.079
It can I would love I would love for our system to be like that.
01:05:54.159 --> 01:05:57.280
Because right now, that is a shortfall with what we have going on.
01:05:57.519 --> 01:05:59.760
You know, there's no trigger to order more tools.
01:06:00.559 --> 01:06:08.159
The trigger is the guys are like, oh, I took you know the second to last one or the last one, let me throw it on an order list.
01:06:08.719 --> 01:06:12.719
Because I just have a running order list, and as I order stuff, it gets cleared.
01:06:12.800 --> 01:06:16.320
Um, let me throw that tool on the order list so we know to order more.
01:06:16.480 --> 01:06:20.800
But if they space out, forget whatever, you know, it's not a foolproof system.
01:06:21.119 --> 01:06:24.159
That's that's the one thing I need to get sorted out.
01:06:24.400 --> 01:06:28.079
And there's not really enough room in there to have like a Kanban set up.
01:06:28.239 --> 01:06:29.199
I don't know, maybe there is.
01:06:29.280 --> 01:06:30.559
I'm sure you can figure something out.
01:06:30.719 --> 01:06:34.320
Yeah, but that could work, but I don't know.
01:06:34.639 --> 01:06:36.559
I think we covered that pretty well.
01:06:36.800 --> 01:06:38.320
Hey, watch this one.
01:06:38.800 --> 01:06:41.679
Uh net 30 payment doom spiral.
01:06:41.840 --> 01:06:45.679
Waiting to get paid, not having enough money to start new jobs.
01:06:46.639 --> 01:06:47.920
I get that.
01:06:48.239 --> 01:06:52.559
I mean, he he's a one-man band just starting out.
01:06:52.800 --> 01:06:54.880
So I definitely get that.
01:06:55.119 --> 01:07:00.559
Uh how was that actually, how was that for you, Brad, when you started your business?
01:07:00.800 --> 01:07:02.559
How did you handle that kind of thing?
01:07:02.800 --> 01:07:08.480
Um I mean, I had I had money saved up, so it wasn't that big of a deal.
01:07:08.719 --> 01:07:17.440
Uh, I wasn't, I mean, I didn't have a million dollars, but I had enough to get through some of the jobs, and you just gotta, I don't know.
01:07:17.679 --> 01:07:20.000
That's tough if you don't have the money to start the job.
01:07:20.480 --> 01:07:22.880
You can you can require material payment up front.
01:07:23.039 --> 01:07:25.039
Yeah, require material payment up front.
01:07:25.280 --> 01:07:27.280
That right there takes a lot of the burden off of you.
01:07:27.599 --> 01:07:28.719
I mean, that's really the big thing.
01:07:28.800 --> 01:07:30.800
Yeah, buying all the material.
01:07:31.280 --> 01:07:38.719
Well, and and if you don't have terms set up with material vendors, if you're trying to pay up front for it, get terms set up for net 30.
01:07:38.800 --> 01:07:42.000
See if you can do net 60 on material payments.
01:07:42.880 --> 01:07:43.519
Yeah.
01:07:44.480 --> 01:07:49.199
See if you can get a certain percentage down as well.
01:07:49.440 --> 01:07:54.559
Um or I mean, some places I've I've mentioned this before.
01:07:54.719 --> 01:07:59.440
I mean, I've seen shops do like a small discount if they pay quicker.
01:07:59.599 --> 01:08:00.000
Yeah.
01:08:00.320 --> 01:08:05.440
So like two percent off if they pay within 15 instead of 30 or something like that.
01:08:05.760 --> 01:08:07.519
2% at 10 is one I've seen.
01:08:07.599 --> 01:08:08.000
Yeah.
01:08:08.159 --> 01:08:08.400
Yep.
01:08:08.559 --> 01:08:12.960
But if they're not paying, if they're not paying even in 30 days, thinking you can get them to pay up front.
01:08:13.199 --> 01:08:14.960
I mean, I suppose if that won't work.
01:08:15.280 --> 01:08:17.680
If they're not paying within 30 days, then they're gonna pay up front.
01:08:17.760 --> 01:08:17.920
Yeah.
01:08:18.000 --> 01:08:19.439
That's the way it's gonna work in the future.
01:08:19.680 --> 01:08:20.399
Yeah, yeah.
01:08:20.479 --> 01:08:22.159
Yeah, don't let people bully you.
01:08:22.319 --> 01:08:22.560
Yeah.
01:08:22.640 --> 01:08:28.000
Uh I would say if you have a customer that you keep on having, I don't know if he's having issues or not with that.
01:08:28.319 --> 01:08:33.840
I don't know if he's saying waiting to get paid is in like they went past the net 30 or that he's just gotta wait for the net 30.
01:08:34.000 --> 01:08:36.640
Oh, probably wait in 30 days to we get paid.
01:08:36.720 --> 01:08:36.960
Yeah.
01:08:37.119 --> 01:08:54.239
I mean, if if if you've got a repeat offender there, then you can require, like, hey, just so you know, going forward, since you've missed your your net 30 terms X amount of times, I want you know, half payment up front or a deposit or full payment upon completion, something like that.
01:08:54.640 --> 01:08:55.359
Yeah, yeah.
01:08:55.520 --> 01:08:59.039
So and I mean, is there a specific reason you're doing net 30 with the customer?
01:08:59.279 --> 01:09:00.800
Is that just what everybody does?
01:09:00.880 --> 01:09:01.920
So you did net 30.
01:09:02.079 --> 01:09:04.560
And you can change it to net 10 or you could talk to them.
01:09:04.960 --> 01:09:11.840
I don't, I mean, I don't know what he's tried, but yeah, like, hey guys, uh, you know, I'd like to move our payment terms forward just to help me out.
01:09:12.000 --> 01:09:14.880
That way, you know, I don't know, I don't know what some bullshit.
01:09:14.960 --> 01:09:19.520
But yeah, any new customer I get, I put net 15 on my quotes.
01:09:19.760 --> 01:09:22.800
I had a new customer, I got a PO is like net 60.
01:09:22.880 --> 01:09:24.399
I'm like, yeah, no, that don't work.
01:09:24.560 --> 01:09:25.760
Not happening.
01:09:26.399 --> 01:09:26.800
Yeah.
01:09:27.039 --> 01:09:31.439
Honestly, the best thing we can all do is push back against stuff like that.
01:09:31.760 --> 01:09:33.279
I mean, it's ridiculous.
01:09:33.520 --> 01:09:37.039
Yeah, you'll end up in a place like us where we're net 90 with our biggest customer.
01:09:37.279 --> 01:09:37.520
Yep.
01:09:37.840 --> 01:09:45.840
So between our eight-week lead time and their net 90 payment terms, oh god, yeah, yeah, like five or six months of important material cost.
01:09:46.000 --> 01:10:01.680
So yeah, but they're one of those customers where I mean they've got a ton of vendors, and it's a huge pain to become a vendor for them, and it's also a huge pain to change anything with them, and like that's just how they do it, and you're not getting special treatment, so yeah, you're just kind of stuck with it.
01:10:02.000 --> 01:10:07.119
You could also, I don't know anything about this, so bear that in mind.
01:10:07.279 --> 01:10:23.359
But you know, you can also try to get a line of credit so that way you can use that to help float you, and just it's not necessarily like a credit card necessarily, but um again, I don't know.
01:10:23.439 --> 01:10:27.920
I've never done that first time, but that's kind of like doing terms with a material company.
01:10:28.079 --> 01:10:29.119
Yeah, sure.
01:10:29.359 --> 01:10:31.199
All material companies will do terms.
01:10:31.359 --> 01:10:34.880
I I have it, yeah, I had it day one, it wasn't a problem.
01:10:35.279 --> 01:10:41.359
Yeah, we always have to you have to do a credit application whenever you get started with a new vendor and you're doing payment terms.
01:10:41.520 --> 01:10:44.640
They want references and stuff to make sure you're gonna pay.
01:10:45.439 --> 01:10:52.560
So um, and I I would add again, don't be afraid to try to push your own payment terms.
01:10:52.640 --> 01:10:55.039
Don't don't you don't have to default to net 30.
01:10:55.199 --> 01:11:02.399
I don't know how, because I mean so many machine shops get stuck in that, like net 30, 45, 60, whatever.
01:11:02.560 --> 01:11:11.199
Um where I work, a lot of what we do is 50% up front, and then 50% net 15, maybe net 30.
01:11:11.680 --> 01:11:16.960
Um it I don't know how, because it seems like so many shops.
01:11:17.119 --> 01:11:25.359
I guess it's just since we're a little bit of a specialty thing, you know, the two-bending thing, but um, you know, try it.
01:11:25.520 --> 01:11:33.520
Or at least, like Cam said, you know, if you can get your material covered, that helps at least with the immediate cost of the job.
01:11:33.600 --> 01:11:45.600
Because especially when you're an owner operator, your labor, I you know, you can look at it a few different ways, but you're you're not having to pay an employee necessarily, just yourself.
01:11:46.159 --> 01:11:46.720
Yeah.
01:11:47.039 --> 01:11:55.840
So but I mean, if you're supporting yourself off of your shop, that is different.
01:11:56.000 --> 01:11:58.239
You still gotta have money, so exactly.
01:11:58.399 --> 01:12:02.239
So it's it kind of goes both ways because your shop's gonna have bills that need paid.
01:12:02.319 --> 01:12:03.680
You have bills that need paid.
01:12:03.840 --> 01:12:10.560
Yeah, ultimately you need to protect yourself, and if your customer isn't willing to help you out with that, then maybe they're not gonna be a good customer.
01:12:10.800 --> 01:12:16.159
Harrison Audens asks how to hire and and train younger people.
01:12:16.319 --> 01:12:22.319
We are a mold shop in the Midwest with 70% of the company over 55 years old.
01:12:22.720 --> 01:12:23.359
Oof.
01:12:25.199 --> 01:12:25.840
Yeah.
01:12:26.239 --> 01:12:35.439
I I I don't I think whenever you've got younger people looking into the trade, they're not typically super excited about mold and dye.
01:12:35.680 --> 01:12:43.119
No, you're gonna have to offer a decent pay to attract somebody to come in there, and then you're gonna have to spend the time training them.
01:12:43.760 --> 01:12:44.880
I mean, no one's gonna walk.
01:12:44.960 --> 01:12:56.720
I mean, I if you're in the Midwest, if you're in Minnesota, you're probably hiring trying to hire an apprentice or somebody out of school, you're probably offering them 18 to 22 an hour.
01:12:56.880 --> 01:12:57.760
Offer more.
01:12:58.079 --> 01:13:03.439
I won't want to go, I won't want to go run fucking mold work for 18 to 22 an hour.
01:13:03.680 --> 01:13:03.840
Yeah.
01:13:04.000 --> 01:13:08.319
I mean, what are you gonna have them do the first couple of weeks that they're fucking polish and shit?
01:13:08.640 --> 01:13:11.520
Do they do that still or are they that 20 years ago?
01:13:12.000 --> 01:13:16.000
I mean, if the shop's still ran by people in their 50s and 60s, probably.
01:13:16.159 --> 01:13:17.760
Yeah, it's true.
01:13:18.079 --> 01:13:22.640
I mean, that kind of is the the the long and the short of it, man, is is pay.
01:13:22.720 --> 01:13:30.000
It's we've kind of danced around it on the show, but like let's be real, pay is not great in a lot of cases in this trade.
01:13:30.159 --> 01:13:36.479
And I mean it's a lot of things it hasn't kept up with well, the cost of everything else.
01:13:37.279 --> 01:13:38.560
Oh, exactly.
01:13:38.800 --> 01:13:46.720
Um I mean, around here, shops hire guys to start for like 15 to 16 an hour.
01:13:46.960 --> 01:13:47.439
Yeah.
01:13:47.600 --> 01:13:48.960
Uh which is pitiful.
01:13:49.279 --> 01:13:58.319
You really realize, you know, like how underpaid the trade is whenever you start looking into what other people are getting paid for jobs that you wouldn't consider to be a high-paying job.
01:13:58.880 --> 01:14:05.199
The guy at the deli at the grocery store, I heard him the other day talking to a coworker saying he's making 22 bucks an hour.
01:14:06.159 --> 01:14:07.359
Working at the deli.
01:14:08.000 --> 01:14:08.319
Yeah.
01:14:08.560 --> 01:14:15.199
And I'm supposed to hire you know a machinist for 22 bucks an hour, somebody with actual skills.
01:14:15.359 --> 01:14:15.760
Right.
01:14:15.920 --> 01:14:24.560
I mean, not to offend any deli workers out there, I mean, slicing ham, but it's not exactly a skilled job.
01:14:24.720 --> 01:14:27.359
I don't think it's worth 22 an hour, you know.
01:14:27.520 --> 01:14:27.760
No.
01:14:28.000 --> 01:14:32.239
Or if it is, then an entry-level machinist is worth 30, 35.
01:14:32.640 --> 01:14:35.680
But the pushback on that is where are you gonna go being a deli worker?
01:14:35.840 --> 01:14:39.760
You're not gonna you're not gonna make$30,$35 an hour in five, 10 years.
01:14:39.920 --> 01:14:41.840
You're probably gonna max out if you will.
01:14:42.079 --> 01:14:42.399
Huh?
01:14:42.800 --> 01:14:44.079
You could be a manager, you will.
01:14:44.239 --> 01:14:45.199
Yeah, yeah.
01:14:46.000 --> 01:14:47.119
So you gotta go.
01:14:47.199 --> 01:14:51.439
I mean, you always see the people that, oh, I can go get a job at McDonald's for$20 an hour.
01:14:51.600 --> 01:14:58.079
Well, yeah, you're gonna you're gonna become a manager, you're gonna make$24 an hour, and in 15 years, you're like, what the fuck am I doing with my life?
01:14:58.319 --> 01:14:59.520
You know, you're not gonna have to do that.
01:14:59.920 --> 01:15:01.600
That's something I understand too.
01:15:01.760 --> 01:15:17.039
Like, I even if I could go say I'm making you know, 18 bucks as a new machinist, and I could go make 22 working at a deli, I'm getting a whole lot more fulfillment out of what I'm doing as a machinist than I would working at a deli dealing with retarded ass people every day.
01:15:18.560 --> 01:15:19.520
You know, yeah.
01:15:19.920 --> 01:15:23.520
So I'd still much rather be machinist, but it's a career.
01:15:23.600 --> 01:15:30.399
You you're learning experiences and you a skill that you're gonna grow with.
01:15:30.479 --> 01:15:35.359
I mean, it's I know, but a lot of it too can depend on where you live.
01:15:35.439 --> 01:15:44.560
Yeah, you know, like what where where Pat lives, how difficult it is to find a machining job in the first place, and then on top of that, how difficult it is to find one that pays 30 bucks an hour at least.
01:15:44.720 --> 01:15:45.119
Yeah.
01:15:45.359 --> 01:15:49.920
Whereas you go to, you know, big industrial cities like Minnesota, for example.
01:15:50.000 --> 01:15:53.039
I'm sure he could go get a job for 35 an hour right now without an issue.
01:15:53.279 --> 01:15:57.760
Oh, yeah, Pat, I can find you a job in my small little 4,000 people town for 35 an hour.
01:15:58.319 --> 01:16:01.279
Oh, yeah, the the the lovely city of Minnesota.
01:16:03.039 --> 01:16:04.800
No, uh for sure.
01:16:05.039 --> 01:16:08.720
I mean, uh it is crazy.
01:16:08.880 --> 01:16:21.840
I actually I want to take this opportunity to gripe about uh wages for a second because I actually I've told you both this already, but to the audience, uh, I actually feel like wages have gone down in this area recently.
01:16:22.479 --> 01:16:31.119
Uh because looking at job ads, which hey, everybody should always be looking for a job because you never know what kind of opportunity you're gonna find yourself.
01:16:31.279 --> 01:16:31.920
Hey, I love it.
01:16:32.159 --> 01:16:33.520
Unless you're right.
01:16:33.840 --> 01:16:35.760
Unless you're just truly happy where you are.
01:16:35.840 --> 01:16:39.840
Like Cam, where you are, I wouldn't look for nothing because that's awesome.
01:16:40.159 --> 01:16:45.279
But like any other situation, it it's just a job, you know, look.
01:16:46.319 --> 01:16:49.760
So I could go, I screw it.
01:16:49.920 --> 01:16:51.920
I make$35.75 an hour.
01:16:52.159 --> 01:16:52.479
Okay.
01:16:53.359 --> 01:16:55.439
Uh really no benefits.
01:16:55.600 --> 01:16:58.880
I mean, two weeks of vacation a year, but you know, whatever.
01:16:59.119 --> 01:17:03.920
Uh health insurance, I don't even have it because it's not great and expensive.
01:17:04.399 --> 01:17:21.520
Uh the best job offer that I've found on Indeed, and again, I'm not looking, but you know, you're always watching, um, is in Oak Ridge, which is always sort of a prestigious place to go work, right?
01:17:21.600 --> 01:17:26.640
That's all kinds of government, aerospace, medical science type stuff.
01:17:27.840 --> 01:17:42.479
They want a five-axis uh machinist that can program with Gibbs Cam, which immediate turn off, uh and run tight tolerance work, ISO, all that stuff.
01:17:43.520 --> 01:17:47.600
And their price range is$27 to$36 an hour.
01:17:49.439 --> 01:17:56.000
And bear in mind for me, that's 40 more minutes away.
01:17:57.199 --> 01:18:00.319
And, you know, yeah, their benefits might are probably better.
01:18:00.399 --> 01:18:09.760
I haven't looked into it that much, but a good, you know, by far the majority of people are looking for money, and benefits are sort of secondary.
01:18:10.479 --> 01:18:16.640
And I see that, and I mean, I'm it it's it's upsetting uh to see that.
01:18:16.800 --> 01:18:20.159
And uh, my coworker got uh an alert from it the other day.
01:18:20.239 --> 01:18:27.279
Uh you know, how indeed does, you know, they send alerts and you know, people email you job offers and stuff.
01:18:27.439 --> 01:18:32.159
And he actually replied, he was like, Look, my my coworker and I both looked at this.
01:18:32.319 --> 01:18:42.479
We're both, you know, well credentialed to ful fulfill this, but your your high end of your pay range is like ten dollars low.
01:18:42.880 --> 01:18:43.520
Yeah.
01:18:44.239 --> 01:18:52.239
I mean, if you get a good, especially doing work like that, five access work, I mean you're charging for it.
01:18:52.640 --> 01:18:57.279
Somebody that's good, you can easily pay them 45 bucks an hour and still make a ton of money.
01:18:57.520 --> 01:18:57.840
Yeah.
01:18:58.000 --> 01:19:08.319
And nowadays it shouldn't fucking matter where you are, where your shop is, where you're located, if you're home shop, if you're in Tennessee, Minnesota, Atlanta, Florida.
01:19:08.640 --> 01:19:13.840
You you can be making the same fucking part for the company in California no matter where you are.
01:19:14.159 --> 01:19:16.880
And you should quote it this you should be quoting somewhat the same.
01:19:16.960 --> 01:19:22.720
I get everybody has different overhead, cost of living is different, but I mean, is it really that much different?
01:19:22.800 --> 01:19:25.359
You're making the same fucking part, you're still buying the same machine.
01:19:25.760 --> 01:19:29.920
Just because you live there, your UMC wasn't fifty thousand dollars cheaper than mine.
01:19:30.319 --> 01:19:30.960
Yeah.
01:19:31.359 --> 01:19:32.720
Depends how you find work too.
01:19:32.800 --> 01:19:34.720
Like we don't use zometry or anything like that.
01:19:34.960 --> 01:19:36.880
Everything we find is just through contacts.
01:19:36.960 --> 01:19:38.880
So pretty much everything we do is local work.
01:19:38.960 --> 01:19:39.359
Yep.
01:19:39.680 --> 01:19:47.279
Hopefully, that's a short-term thing that there's a part of me, and I I hate to say this because you know, here I am.
01:19:47.359 --> 01:19:50.000
I'm part, you know, I'm part of practical machinist.
01:19:50.079 --> 01:19:52.640
I I want to encourage people to join the trade.
01:19:52.800 --> 01:19:57.520
And I would never like discourage somebody from becoming a machinist because I love it.
01:19:57.680 --> 01:19:58.000
Yep.
01:19:58.159 --> 01:20:07.520
But there's a part of me that feels like we almost need less machinists, like we need the boomer retirement to happen.
01:20:08.000 --> 01:20:08.239
Yeah.
01:20:08.399 --> 01:20:13.600
Uh, and we need all the podunk little garbage shops to die out.
01:20:13.920 --> 01:20:22.640
I don't want anybody to lose their livelihood, but you know, I think the herd just needs thinned a little bit for it to become better.
01:20:23.439 --> 01:20:42.159
Well, it's it's probably hard to uh you know hire hire younger people and pay them today's wages whenever you're paying, you know, a 60-year-old dude that's 50% less productive, you know, 50 bucks an hour with benefits.
01:20:43.920 --> 01:20:44.720
That's the truth.
01:20:44.800 --> 01:20:52.640
I mean, it the you also have that aspect of somebody that's been at a company for five years, 10 years, whatever, is making this much.
01:20:53.840 --> 01:21:00.640
And you're having to hire people in for about the same as they're making, even if it's a good employee.
01:21:00.800 --> 01:21:02.800
I mean, that's that's not even a machining thing.
01:21:02.960 --> 01:21:08.239
That's uh that's just every every trade, every business is facing that.
01:21:08.479 --> 01:21:09.119
Yeah.
01:21:09.600 --> 01:21:17.520
I mean, I think businesses have a hard time raising their pay without somebody forcing it to happen.
01:21:18.239 --> 01:21:22.000
Granted, I mean, like it it is kind of a balancing act.
01:21:22.079 --> 01:21:28.319
You don't want to just keep on increasing pay above where your employees feel happy.
01:21:28.560 --> 01:21:31.520
I mean, it would be great if you could, but ultimately it's a business.
01:21:31.680 --> 01:21:39.680
And you know, you if you raise all of your employees two bucks an hour, that's a pretty big impact across a month paying all of your employees you know financially.
01:21:40.079 --> 01:21:41.199
So I don't know.
01:21:41.279 --> 01:21:48.800
It's a big consideration to continue to increase people's wages, um, you know, if as long as they're happy.
01:21:49.840 --> 01:21:51.600
So, but I don't know.
01:21:51.760 --> 01:21:58.000
I kind of carry the mentality you should pay people what it would cost to replace them, not pay them you know what they're worth right now.
01:21:58.159 --> 01:22:07.359
So if you were to if you were if you think about it, you're like, all right, if I was to lose this person today and hire somebody to replace them, what would I have to post an ad for?
01:22:07.680 --> 01:22:10.399
Like what hourly wage would I have to post that ad for?
01:22:10.560 --> 01:22:17.279
You know, like I'm paying this guy 20 bucks an hour, but if I were to hire somebody new, I'd have to pay them 30 or 28.
01:22:17.520 --> 01:22:20.720
I need to pay this guy a little more because eventually they're gonna figure it out too.
01:22:20.800 --> 01:22:29.279
Like, all right, I'm seeing these other jobs available doing what I'm doing now for you know 20, 25, 28 bucks an hour.
01:22:29.439 --> 01:22:30.640
Why am I here?
01:22:31.199 --> 01:22:32.319
You're 20.
01:22:33.600 --> 01:22:38.960
I mean, we you know Brad made his whole career off staying at places no more than three years.
01:22:39.279 --> 01:22:40.880
Three years, move.
01:22:41.119 --> 01:22:43.760
You get a raise, you get you get the best raise.
01:22:44.079 --> 01:22:45.039
Exactly.
01:22:45.600 --> 01:22:56.159
However, however, as always, it depends because if you're if you're in a place that doesn't have a lot of shops or a lot of good shops, yeah, it's harder to do that.
01:22:56.319 --> 01:22:57.119
Yeah, yeah.
01:22:57.359 --> 01:22:59.199
I mean it would be hard where I'm at.
01:22:59.439 --> 01:22:59.920
Right.
01:23:00.159 --> 01:23:04.720
Oh, there's so many shops unless I go down towards Atlanta, which I'm not doing.
01:23:04.880 --> 01:23:08.720
I mean, within within 20 minutes of me, I could probably find a hundred shops.
01:23:09.199 --> 01:23:18.239
And probably really probably 20% of them I would I would consider large, like over 30 employees.
01:23:18.720 --> 01:23:19.359
Yeah.
01:23:20.399 --> 01:23:21.279
That's nuts.
01:23:21.680 --> 01:23:25.119
There's two within an hour that I know of.
01:23:25.680 --> 01:23:26.800
Yeah, same here.
01:23:27.039 --> 01:23:30.479
Yeah, I mean two shops of that size, maybe three.
01:23:30.720 --> 01:23:51.520
I know of one that's machining and fabrication that's in our town, and they strictly do stainless, and then it's like a lot of structural stuff, and then there's another one like 30 minutes south of us, and then like three more about an hour south of us.
01:23:51.840 --> 01:23:52.560
Damn.
01:23:52.880 --> 01:24:00.159
Yeah, I live in a I live in a township above 4,000, and then in the center of the township is the city of Zimmerman, which is another 4,000.
01:24:00.239 --> 01:24:01.760
So I'm technically Zimmerman.
01:24:01.840 --> 01:24:05.039
So we got 8,000 our township city combined.
01:24:05.279 --> 01:24:10.960
Um, there's probably in town, there's probably five or six shops.
01:24:11.119 --> 01:24:22.000
There's two that are decent-sized shops that big, a lot of small shops, and then outside like me, god, there's probably 10-15 home shops alone.
01:24:22.640 --> 01:24:22.880
Yeah.
01:24:23.119 --> 01:24:27.920
And if I go south to Elk River, I mean, there's some massive fucking machine shops there.
01:24:28.560 --> 01:24:32.880
Yeah, just just to 10 minutes of me, I could probably find 30 shops.
01:24:34.640 --> 01:24:37.279
There's definitely more shops, you know.
01:24:38.000 --> 01:24:41.359
Where we're at, we're basically just in a big it's like once you get into the mountains.
01:24:41.520 --> 01:24:46.079
Once you get into the mountains, everything drops off, like as far as industrial stuff goes.
01:24:46.800 --> 01:24:53.760
Um, but if I go back down towards Atlanta or like go over towards Gainesville, there's a ton of industry in both of those places.
01:24:53.840 --> 01:24:55.520
So there's a lot more machine shops there.
01:24:55.680 --> 01:25:02.239
But you know, whenever you're a machine shop hour, hour and a half away from those places and you're trying to hire, it makes it difficult.
01:25:02.319 --> 01:25:10.000
Or if you're a machinist that isn't happy where you're at and you want to try to find you know some better opportunities, then you're kind of screwed.
01:25:10.479 --> 01:25:20.640
Like if I wanted to leave and I didn't want to work in a you know ridiculously crowded area with shitty traffic, then there's not really many places for me to go.
01:25:22.000 --> 01:25:37.760
The the other caveat I'd say is you might have to consider be open to moving, which then that that opens up a can of worms of the uh housing price problem that we have here in the country.
01:25:38.000 --> 01:25:42.479
But uh, you know, it it's weird.
01:25:42.640 --> 01:25:44.079
Things ebb and flow.
01:25:44.319 --> 01:25:49.680
Um some regions will have a lot of jobs that pay well and then they'll die off.
01:25:49.840 --> 01:25:56.079
So then it's like, okay, I'll go to this part of the country uh because it's picked up there.
01:25:56.239 --> 01:26:01.279
And then a few years later, you gotta, you know, yeah, it's it's wild.
01:26:01.359 --> 01:26:02.399
It truly is.
01:26:02.720 --> 01:26:10.800
To get back to to Harrison's question, um, how do you hire and train younger people?
01:26:10.960 --> 01:26:13.840
I I think we covered how, how to hire.
01:26:14.159 --> 01:26:23.840
Training, you you really, you really don't want to put a young guy in the hands of a of a stereotypical boomer.
01:26:23.920 --> 01:26:24.399
I'm sorry.
01:26:24.479 --> 01:26:30.239
You you're gonna have to get him with somebody that isn't gonna be a jerk.
01:26:30.560 --> 01:26:30.960
Right.
01:26:31.199 --> 01:26:34.720
Actually take some time to teach and learn and be patient.
01:26:35.119 --> 01:26:45.920
Because honestly, I feel like with, especially with like Gen Z, uh, they're not real apt to just like put up with crap from somebody.
01:26:46.079 --> 01:26:55.920
You know, that sort of uh I don't I don't even want to call it respect, that sort of intimidation of, oh, this guy really, he's older than me, he really knows what he's doing.
01:26:56.000 --> 01:27:05.039
So I need to I need to be overly receptive to anything he does, even if it's stupid.
01:27:05.439 --> 01:27:05.680
Yeah.
01:27:06.079 --> 01:27:09.600
I I don't think that's a thing in younger people.
01:27:10.399 --> 01:27:12.640
Like Brad, your kid, how's he?
01:27:12.880 --> 01:27:14.560
Does he listen to anything you say?
01:27:14.880 --> 01:27:16.960
No, he doesn't know how to shut garage doors.
01:27:17.039 --> 01:27:18.800
I need fucking tags for him.
01:27:19.680 --> 01:27:20.960
You know circle.
01:27:21.119 --> 01:27:24.640
You know how many times I've came out in the morning and the garage door is open all night long?
01:27:24.800 --> 01:27:26.880
Now I gotta timer on that fucker.
01:27:27.039 --> 01:27:29.600
It shuts every night at 10 o'clock.
01:27:29.840 --> 01:27:31.439
Yeah, that's funny.
01:27:31.760 --> 01:27:36.479
But he he'll be 18 on what the fuck's today?
01:27:36.560 --> 01:27:40.239
He'll be eight eighteen next Saturday, so I don't blame him.
01:27:40.560 --> 01:27:41.840
He's a teenager.
01:27:42.640 --> 01:27:44.880
Yes, teenagers are dumb.
01:27:46.399 --> 01:27:48.239
No matter how smart they are.
01:27:48.720 --> 01:27:50.800
It's a lack of frontal cortex.
01:27:50.960 --> 01:27:51.119
Yeah.
01:27:51.199 --> 01:27:55.680
I mean, there's I mean, God, at that age, there's I mean, he says things and it's like, what the fuck did you just say?
01:27:55.840 --> 01:27:56.800
What's wrong with you?
01:27:59.279 --> 01:27:59.600
Yeah.
01:28:00.479 --> 01:28:01.039
Yeah.
01:28:01.359 --> 01:28:03.600
But your parents might have thought the same about you.
01:28:03.680 --> 01:28:04.079
Oh, for sure.
01:28:04.319 --> 01:28:06.479
That's what a lot of people lose sight of, right?
01:28:06.560 --> 01:28:08.640
Is I was the same way.
01:28:09.359 --> 01:28:11.520
Everybody was a stupid teenager at one point.
01:28:11.680 --> 01:28:12.000
Yeah.
01:28:12.239 --> 01:28:12.880
Yeah.
01:28:13.520 --> 01:28:19.279
I think that's the better old people to learn from it are the people that that realize that, right?
01:28:19.840 --> 01:28:22.159
Is hey, I was that way once.
01:28:22.479 --> 01:28:27.520
So I get why this kid's acting like an idiot because I did that too.
01:28:27.840 --> 01:28:28.479
Yeah.
01:28:29.279 --> 01:28:35.199
Not the person that like these damn kids nowadays, whatever, you know, just bitching about everything.
01:28:35.439 --> 01:28:35.840
Yep.
01:28:36.239 --> 01:28:37.600
Nothing's changed.
01:28:37.840 --> 01:28:41.279
Every generation says the same thing about the generation after them.
01:28:41.600 --> 01:28:42.239
Yep.
01:28:42.720 --> 01:28:53.840
Every generation is different, you know, but I think the internet social media is kind of changing that for like our age group to a point.
01:28:54.079 --> 01:29:03.439
Is like we see that okay, yeah, it it was the same for our parents, their parents, and it's gonna be the same for us.
01:29:03.520 --> 01:29:10.960
So it gives you a little different mindset of okay, big picture, every generation has its differences.
01:29:11.119 --> 01:29:17.279
So I remember seeing a um I don't know, some kind of post or something.
01:29:17.520 --> 01:29:23.439
They were showing quotes from interviews of people all the way back into like the late 1800s.
01:29:23.680 --> 01:29:33.920
When it and they were asking the all of these were the person was asked the question, you know, what they thought of the next generation of you know young people that were working and whatnot.
01:29:34.159 --> 01:29:51.520
And all of them were saying the exact same things that we're saying today, you know, about the generation following us, or the people before me about my generation, literally all the exact same things, like, oh, they don't have interest in working, their attention span isn't as long, they they're lazy, they don't want to show up on time, like complaining about all the same stuff.
01:29:51.680 --> 01:29:52.800
They want handouts.
01:29:53.359 --> 01:29:54.640
It's like so nothing's changed.
01:29:54.720 --> 01:29:58.000
So even the generations before us that were like, man, they were some hardworking people.
01:29:58.159 --> 01:30:01.359
Like people were saying that same thing about their generation when they were coming up.
01:30:01.439 --> 01:30:18.319
So it does make me wonder like, is it a generational thing, or is it just when you're looking at these people, whenever they're 18, 19, 20, 23, and they're just being dumb or lazy or they haven't figured life out yet, are they all the same no matter you know what era we're in?
01:30:18.640 --> 01:30:20.000
It it's give and take.
01:30:20.079 --> 01:30:28.479
It's like, sure, I don't know how to hand crank start my car, but I can use a spreadsheet without setting my computer on fire.
01:30:29.439 --> 01:30:30.079
Yeah.
01:30:31.920 --> 01:30:32.960
Oh man.
01:30:33.439 --> 01:30:33.840
Yeah.
01:30:34.000 --> 01:30:35.840
So thanks everybody for the questions.
01:30:35.920 --> 01:30:39.359
Uh, there's a couple more we'll file away for another day.
01:30:39.600 --> 01:30:42.640
Um, yeah, and uh hope you all enjoyed.
01:30:42.800 --> 01:30:45.840
That's all for this episode of the Impractical Machinist Podcast.
01:30:46.000 --> 01:30:53.439
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01:30:53.760 --> 01:30:56.640
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01:30:56.960 --> 01:31:02.399
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01:31:03.039 --> 01:31:08.720
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01:31:09.439 --> 01:31:17.600
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01:31:18.880 --> 01:31:21.119
Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.
01:31:21.359 --> 01:31:22.720
Keep those chips flying.