Transcript: Alan Fay
AF: “It's great to see so many young people like myself able to express how they feel, able to challenge government bodies, professionals. There's so many people that can make change”.
INTRO
Welcome to the Citizens Now Podcast! My name is Debs Erwin, and this is a space to hear stories of young people from all over the world who are actively working to bring about positive social change.
For our final episode of the season I’m chatting to Alan Fay, a care experienced disability campaigner from Dublin who has been very involved with EPIC Ireland for several years. EPIC stands for ‘empowering people in care’ and its staff do fantastic advocacy work with young people in the care system in Ireland. As you’ll hear Alan brings a positive message about how we can all be involved in change for the good for ourselves and others.
INTERVIEW
DE: Welcome, Alan to the Citizens Now Podcast. I am delighted that you are with us for this conversation. So, I'll introduce you to our listeners, Alan Fay is a Dublin boy. And I actually have had the privilege of working with Alan recently as part of a project for EPIC Ireland, which stands for Empowering People In Care. And Alan is a member of the Youth Council there. So, we've been doing a little bit of research around the experiences of children and young people in care with disabilities. Alan, welcome, so glad you can be part of this.
AF: Thank you, Deborah, for the opportunity.
DE: Oh, you're so welcome. So, would you tell us a little bit about how you came to be involved with EPIC?
AF: Hello, everybody, as Deborah said, my name's Alan Fay, I am a 26-year-old young lad, well 'young' being the word, I hope. I was brought into the care of my grandparents because my mam and dad unfortunately, fell into a drug addiction. How I got involved in EPIC was, I wanted to make positive change, and my Aftercare Worker done some research... An Aftercare Worker is basically someone who looks, who looks after your, your case in care. ‘Cos in the care system in the Republic of Ireland, when you're 18, you're actually moved on from State Care. And you'll get an Aftercare Worker until you're 23 I think it is, because EPIC are kind of trying to push it to 26. I was quite lucky to go into the care of my grandparents because if I didn't go into the care of my grandparents, God knows where I'd be. It's very difficult, because I have cerebral palsy, not that my disability's difficult but I have some needs that are, like, I need 24-hour care, basically because, 'cos of my disabilities. So, but back to how I joined EPIC. I said to my Aftercare Worker, I'd like to join an organisation that would make change. She came back to me after a few weeks, and said, there's this organisation called EPIC, and I said, 'what do they do?' So, this woman called Edel from EPIC came out to my house and introduced herself, where she was from and explained a bit about what EPIC do. And I said to myself, 'I'll give this a go'.
DE: So, can you tell us a little bit about the kinds of things that the Youth Council does and the kinds of issues that you're maybe working on and how you shape things?
AF: Yeah. At the Youth Council, we try to make positive change. Umm, as I said, they're working on the campaign now to make Aftercare till 26. At the age of 18, like the government and professionals just say, 'Okay, you're 18 now, go, go out into the big bad world', which is not easy for a young person in care to do. Like, I know they're an adult, I know they're 18. But like, you can't ask a young person at 18 to go, 'Pay bills, do this, do that'. 'Cos it's not easy. They haven't done them before. And I suppose EPIC make sure that young people's voices are heard. They meet with professionals like TUSLA. TUSLA is the Child and Family Agency in the Republic of Ireland. EPIC would kind of come back to TUSLA with concerns that EPIC would have as an organisation. EPIC is, is a really warm organisation to be part of, and the Youth Council is kind of my second family. I know that might sound a bit touché. But like, they are really my second family, I don't just treat them as friends, I treat them as my family because when I came to EPIC, they looked at me as a person. Like when I'm out in society sometimes, people come up to me and go, 'Ah God help you'. I'm like, what does God need to help me for? I know he can help me, but like, I'm not asking for his help. I was out in the shop one day, with my granny. And this old lady comes up to my Granny and goes, goes to my Granny, 'How old would he be now?' And my granny says, 'Ask him, he's not dead'. So, society's kind of a weird place, it, like, it's a weird place in terms of the care system. It's a weird place in terms of disability, it's a weird place in terms of pandemics, I can go for ages but, yeah. Like EPIC try to kind of narrow that down in terms of the care system. And in terms of what a young person's aspirations is in life, they try to champion the young person, they don't, they don't try to champion themselves as an organisation. They try to make sure the young person is championed within the organisation, and they let the young person do that themselves. EPIC don't do that. They encourage, they try to help the young person to bring out the confidence, like, I'm a confident young person but EPIC has kind of brought more confidence out in me being on the Youth Council.
DE: Yeah, that's brilliant. And yeah, definitely my observations of EPIC are all the things that you've said, and you know, really, young person-centred, like, you know, putting young people at the heart of things.
AF: I know for the young person being in care, it's a difficult situation. And EPIC realise that. I know when I stepped into EPIC like I was unsure like what I was getting myself into. But the moment I stepped through the EPIC door, I felt like I was there for years kind of.
DE: Wow, that's brilliant. That's, that's a really good thing to feel.
AF: I know.
DE: I'm curious about what motivates you, like what keeps you going? You know to stay involved and to keep working on these issues?
AF: For a young person in care it's a difficult situation but for a young person in care with a disability it's kind of, I won't say more difficult but like, we can see it from a different perspective to the other person that hasn't got a disability. I done a disability webinar. We do a, we do a thing called, 'Care Day'. Care Day is an event where we try and promote the positive outlooks on the care system. I was talking on the webinar and after the webinar, the EPIC CEO, came to me and says, ‘You're right. There's not enough research in, on people with disabilities in the care system'. So, she came back and says, 'Alan, you won't believe it. We're after getting funding for a research project because of your webinar'. So, she came, she came to Deborah. And then I got introduced to Deborah.
DE: Hopefully, by the time this podcast goes out, the research will be out in the big bad world and will be helping to, push things on a little bit in terms of understanding, hearing the voices of young people in care with disabilities. And, and definitely right there, it's such a great example of how you and your fellow members of the Youth Council have been making a change and keeping young people's voices at the heart of things which, which is brilliant. I'm sure when you look back over time, you've worked with many different teachers and social workers and I'm just wondering, what are the questions that you wish they would have asked you? Or what are the conversations that you wish they would have with you?
AF: There's one particular teacher that was very helpful to me at school, he was really good to me. He kind of sensed when I was struggling. Just some days, where I would go into school and my concentration would not be at a 100%. And he would basically know that because he's, he's been used to me, like in school for years. He, he would kind of say, he would kind of say to me, like, 'Alan, you’re having like an off day today, aren't you?' and I'd say, ‘Yeah, I am, I can't really concentrate today, I don't know what it is'. He knew like that I was living with my grandparents. And over time he knew why. So, he was very helpful to me like where I, where – here's a different side, like in terms of social workers. They were helpful to a certain extent. But it kind of got a little bit, it kind of got a bit tense. I'd say that word. Because social workers were asking me like a lot of the same questions of what I’d told them already. And it kind of, like I answered them once, I answered them, twice, I answered them, maybe three times. And when it got to four, five, six, I was like, 'I answered this question already, you're just trying to ask the same question in a different way, hoping to get a different answer'. It was kind of confusing, but I kinda wanted to scream and say, and say, 'am I doing your job or are you doing my job?'
DE: It's such a contrast to that teacher that you just mentioned, who was really tuned in to where you were at and, and really kind of working, working with you, and for you.
AF: He did push me some days, he said, like, 'you can do this'. He was quite, he was quite stern, stern with me some days, but in, in a good way. Not in a bad way.
DE: Yeah, that's great.
AF: He kind of wanted the best for me in terms of like, in terms of my aspirations. When I speak of aspirations, here's a funny one for you. Before I went on to secondary school, my granny, she spoke to a social worker and the social worker said, 'Are you sure Alan's gonna be able for secondary school?' Now I get why that question was asked because of my needs and because of having a disability. She could have said it in, in terms of 'are you sure Alan's going to be able for secondary school because of his disability?' but she should have known from talking to me I was intellectually able for secondary school. She asked me questions, I answered the questions, I was able to respond to her in an articulate way. So, she kind of presumed because of my disability maybe I will not be able for secondary school. And I get that, I do get the question but it kind of annoys me in terms of the way she asked the question - she could have asked it in a different way. The social worker thing is kind of so much of a contrast, as you said, because they're not, they're not all bad people. It probably sounds like, 'Oh, he doesn't like social workers', but no, that's not the thing. Like I'm sure they're lovely people. Their job is kind of a high-pressured job. And I get that. But like, their perceptions of the care system and young people in care, like - and I'm sure my peers in the care system will agree. But I think young people are just a case number to social workers sometimes. ‘Get that one person done. Move on to the next person'. I get that there's an element of that, but like you have to have compassion at the same time in terms of, like I could be having a bad day, I could be stressed out, a phone call would be nice even from the social worker, or your aftercare worker, 'are you okay Alan? Or do you need any help? Or can we support you in any way?’ I know from being in EPIC, I have heard, like, some positive experiences of social workers and aftercare workers but, I've often heard some negative experiences, as well. And from my time in EPIC and doing the research with Deborah, we've heard so many people’s views on stuff in so many situations and so much different experience. And we all, we all just want the same thing, like, we all just want to be listened to, we all just want to be heard.
AF: I have a motto that I use in terms of people with disabilities, but it can go for anybody. And the motto is, 'the only limits in life are the ones you make' which means that, if you're going to make limits, it's going to be harder for you. If you don't make limits for yourself, it'd be, it'd be a lot easier. If you're gonna make limits, if you want to make bother for yourself then you're going to struggle on a day-to-day basis, and it's gonna be a lot harder. And if you're having a bad day, write down why you think you're having a bad day, why do you think this happened? Or why do you think that that bad day was caused, and then you can go back the next day, look at what you wrote down, and then write down positive that you can help yourself on that bad day.
DE: I love your advice. I'm going to take that one up. It kind of actually, nicely leads on to my next question, because I'm just wondering what advice you would give to young people who want to make a difference in the world? And whatever the issue is that that that they care about, what would you say to them?
AF: Well, it depends, like, I know some people are shy. And I'm far from shy as you can tell, but I know some people are shy and a bit introverted. But I'm extroverted, I'm outgoing, but I know like, for some people, they don't speak to many people, or they’re not, they don't really have the confidence to speak in public settings or, like, have the confidence to express their problem. But I'd say to a young person if you don't do that, and you keep in, you will struggle for yourself. I get it's hard to kind of express your feelings if you're in a difficult situation. But if you express your feelings to a person you can trust or to a teacher that you can trust or to a friend, you might be able to express that issue to more people. Like if you start off at one person, and then you can expand that to two maybe three, and then if you're confident enough you can public speak about the situation. Since being in EPIC - we're all confident, we're all unique in our own different ways but there's so much diversity on the EPIC Youth Council, it's mind-blowing, because there's kind of so much like, there's so many attributes in, in the people on the Youth Council. And it's kind of great to see ‘cos an organisation like EPIC do talk about sensitive issues. And it's great to see so many young people like myself and the rest of the Youth Council able to express how they feel, able to challenge government bodies, professionals, social workers. And since I've been in EPIC, I've realised that, like there's so many people that can make change, there's so many people out there that can make change. And you can be one of those people, it's just believing in yourself to be one of those people – if you don't believe, nobody else will believe in you. So, if you're finding it hard to kind of express yourself, don't be, because when you express yourself a whole different, a whole different door will open for you to explore. It might not open straight away, but it will open. And, like, I've noticed that with EPIC, they let that door open for you. If you want to make change, just believe in yourself. And as I say, like, write down what the problem is, what the issue is and if it takes you a week, if it takes you a month, if it takes you a year, you'll get to where you want to go to.
DE: That's great practical advice, again, like so encouraging Alan. Last question, I'm just curious, what do you think it is that young people can bring to the world? And you know, why do you think it's important that their voices are heard? And that they get a platform to do good work and to bring about change?
AF: Young people can offer so much. The only example I can use is EPIC. EPIC again, because we are epic! But no, the Youth Council again, it's a great platform to be in because like, we might have all different experiences but we're kind of pushing for the same thing. We're kind of like pushing for change but like, we all want the same change. If you want to change something, like it's not gonna change in the blink of an eye, you kinda have to persist on what you want changed. And since I've been in EPIC, like, that's, that's what we do. It's kind of like, we want to make change, but we also want to see change. There's no point in making change if you don't see change. Like I'll tell you this. I have missed loads of EPIC events because of taxis not showing up. And I feel that I'm letting EPIC down because of the taxi service is not being, not being reliable. But I spoke to the EPIC CEO about that, and she said, 'Never feel like you're letting EPIC down because, you're not, you've done so much for this organisation', which was really nice to hear. Like I was saying society can be the disabling factor sometimes. If society let us do what we wanted to do as a person with a disability, like, it would be so much of a better place. Thank you, Deborah for this opportunity of the interview today. I hope your listeners really enjoyed that and I'm sure they got some insight.
DE: You were kind of joking that ‘we are epic’ and I think you're definitely epic in so many ways. And I think you really epitomise the values of the organisation. And you're so articulate in speaking for and with other young people. And it's been really super to have you on the podcast today.
OUTRO
I hope you enjoyed hearing from Alan, he’s got such a lovely sense of humour and has been incredibly committed in his role on EPIC’s Youth Council. I was really struck by what he was saying about how society can be the disabling factor in the day-to-day experiences of young people with disabilities. I’d love to hear what your takeaways are from the conversation so please let me know your thoughts by visiting https://www.citizensnowpodcast.org/.
Well, it’s hard to believe but that’s a wrap on the very first season of the Citizens Now Podcast. There are wonderful humans out there who gave me their time and invaluable advice to get this thing off the ground – shout outs to Davy Sims, Ruairí McKiernan, and Jude Mitchell. Then there were so many good friends who have been an ongoing source of encouragement which helped me stick with it. Thanks also to colleagues in the youth and community sector at home and around the world who connected me with the incredible young people who have been my guests in this season.
My biggest thanks then goes to Delvina, Mia, Kate, Sen, Lauren, and Alan for your willingness to be interviewed – not least for your patience with my glacially slow post-production efforts but most of all for your wisdom, energy, and belief that the world can be a better place and that we can make it happen together. I have a deep respect for you all and your dedication to social justice.
Finally, to you the listener, thank you for being with me on this journey. If you’ve enjoyed the podcast, I would be so grateful if you would share it with others and also it would be amazing if you would give us a rating and review so that more people can find out about it.
And, if you’re willing to contribute to my tip jar at ko-fi.com/debserwin, that will give me some fuel to bring Season 2 to life. The link is in the show notes. Thank you!
AF: “It's great to see so many young people like myself able to express how they feel, able to challenge government bodies, professionals. There's so many people that can make change”.
INTRO
Welcome to the Citizens Now Podcast! My name is Debs Erwin, and this is a space to hear stories of young people from all over the world who are actively working to bring about positive social change.
For our final episode of the season I’m chatting to Alan Fay, a care experienced disability campaigner from Dublin who has been very involved with EPIC Ireland for several years. EPIC stands for ‘empowering people in care’ and its staff do fantastic advocacy work with young people in the care system in Ireland. As you’ll hear Alan brings a positive message about how we can all be involved in change for the good for ourselves and others.
INTERVIEW
DE: Welcome, Alan to the Citizens Now Podcast. I am delighted that you are with us for this conversation. So, I'll introduce you to our listeners, Alan Fay is a Dublin boy. And I actually have had the privilege of working with Alan recently as part of a project for EPIC Ireland, which stands for Empowering People In Care. And Alan is a member of the Youth Council there. So, we've been doing a little bit of research around the experiences of children and young people in care with disabilities. Alan, welcome, so glad you can be part of this.
AF: Thank you, Deborah, for the opportunity.
DE: Oh, you're so welcome. So, would you tell us a little bit about how you came to be involved with EPIC?
AF: Hello, everybody, as Deborah said, my name's Alan Fay, I am a 26-year-old young lad, well 'young' being the word, I hope. I was brought into the care of my grandparents because my mam and dad unfortunately, fell into a drug addiction. How I got involved in EPIC was, I wanted to make positive change, and my Aftercare Worker done some research... An Aftercare Worker is basically someone who looks, who looks after your, your case in care. ‘Cos in the care system in the Republic of Ireland, when you're 18, you're actually moved on from State Care. And you'll get an Aftercare Worker until you're 23 I think it is, because EPIC are kind of trying to push it to 26. I was quite lucky to go into the care of my grandparents because if I didn't go into the care of my grandparents, God knows where I'd be. It's very difficult, because I have cerebral palsy, not that my disability's difficult but I have some needs that are, like, I need 24-hour care, basically because, 'cos of my disabilities. So, but back to how I joined EPIC. I said to my Aftercare Worker, I'd like to join an organisation that would make change. She came back to me after a few weeks, and said, there's this organisation called EPIC, and I said, 'what do they do?' So, this woman called Edel from EPIC came out to my house and introduced herself, where she was from and explained a bit about what EPIC do. And I said to myself, 'I'll give this a go'.
DE: So, can you tell us a little bit about the kinds of things that the Youth Council does and the kinds of issues that you're maybe working on and how you shape things?
AF: Yeah. At the Youth Council, we try to make positive change. Umm, as I said, they're working on the campaign now to make Aftercare till 26. At the age of 18, like the government and professionals just say, 'Okay, you're 18 now, go, go out into the big bad world', which is not easy for a young person in care to do. Like, I know they're an adult, I know they're 18. But like, you can't ask a young person at 18 to go, 'Pay bills, do this, do that'. 'Cos it's not easy. They haven't done them before. And I suppose EPIC make sure that young people's voices are heard. They meet with professionals like TUSLA. TUSLA is the Child and Family Agency in the Republic of Ireland. EPIC would kind of come back to TUSLA with concerns that EPIC would have as an organisation. EPIC is, is a really warm organisation to be part of, and the Youth Council is kind of my second family. I know that might sound a bit touché. But like, they are really my second family, I don't just treat them as friends, I treat them as my family because when I came to EPIC, they looked at me as a person. Like when I'm out in society sometimes, people come up to me and go, 'Ah God help you'. I'm like, what does God need to help me for? I know he can help me, but like, I'm not asking for his help. I was out in the shop one day, with my granny. And this old lady comes up to my Granny and goes, goes to my Granny, 'How old would he be now?' And my granny says, 'Ask him, he's not dead'. So, society's kind of a weird place, it, like, it's a weird place in terms of the care system. It's a weird place in terms of disability, it's a weird place in terms of pandemics, I can go for ages but, yeah. Like EPIC try to kind of narrow that down in terms of the care system. And in terms of what a young person's aspirations is in life, they try to champion the young person, they don't, they don't try to champion themselves as an organisation. They try to make sure the young person is championed within the organisation, and they let the young person do that themselves. EPIC don't do that. They encourage, they try to help the young person to bring out the confidence, like, I'm a confident young person but EPIC has kind of brought more confidence out in me being on the Youth Council.
DE: Yeah, that's brilliant. And yeah, definitely my observations of EPIC are all the things that you've said, and you know, really, young person-centred, like, you know, putting young people at the heart of things.
AF: I know for the young person being in care, it's a difficult situation. And EPIC realise that. I know when I stepped into EPIC like I was unsure like what I was getting myself into. But the moment I stepped through the EPIC door, I felt like I was there for years kind of.
DE: Wow, that's brilliant. That's, that's a really good thing to feel.
AF: I know.
DE: I'm curious about what motivates you, like what keeps you going? You know to stay involved and to keep working on these issues?
AF: For a young person in care it's a difficult situation but for a young person in care with a disability it's kind of, I won't say more difficult but like, we can see it from a different perspective to the other person that hasn't got a disability. I done a disability webinar. We do a, we do a thing called, 'Care Day'. Care Day is an event where we try and promote the positive outlooks on the care system. I was talking on the webinar and after the webinar, the EPIC CEO, came to me and says, ‘You're right. There's not enough research in, on people with disabilities in the care system'. So, she came back and says, 'Alan, you won't believe it. We're after getting funding for a research project because of your webinar'. So, she came, she came to Deborah. And then I got introduced to Deborah.
DE: Hopefully, by the time this podcast goes out, the research will be out in the big bad world and will be helping to, push things on a little bit in terms of understanding, hearing the voices of young people in care with disabilities. And, and definitely right there, it's such a great example of how you and your fellow members of the Youth Council have been making a change and keeping young people's voices at the heart of things which, which is brilliant. I'm sure when you look back over time, you've worked with many different teachers and social workers and I'm just wondering, what are the questions that you wish they would have asked you? Or what are the conversations that you wish they would have with you?
AF: There's one particular teacher that was very helpful to me at school, he was really good to me. He kind of sensed when I was struggling. Just some days, where I would go into school and my concentration would not be at a 100%. And he would basically know that because he's, he's been used to me, like in school for years. He, he would kind of say, he would kind of say to me, like, 'Alan, you’re having like an off day today, aren't you?' and I'd say, ‘Yeah, I am, I can't really concentrate today, I don't know what it is'. He knew like that I was living with my grandparents. And over time he knew why. So, he was very helpful to me like where I, where – here's a different side, like in terms of social workers. They were helpful to a certain extent. But it kind of got a little bit, it kind of got a bit tense. I'd say that word. Because social workers were asking me like a lot of the same questions of what I’d told them already. And it kind of, like I answered them once, I answered them, twice, I answered them, maybe three times. And when it got to four, five, six, I was like, 'I answered this question already, you're just trying to ask the same question in a different way, hoping to get a different answer'. It was kind of confusing, but I kinda wanted to scream and say, and say, 'am I doing your job or are you doing my job?'
DE: It's such a contrast to that teacher that you just mentioned, who was really tuned in to where you were at and, and really kind of working, working with you, and for you.
AF: He did push me some days, he said, like, 'you can do this'. He was quite, he was quite stern, stern with me some days, but in, in a good way. Not in a bad way.
DE: Yeah, that's great.
AF: He kind of wanted the best for me in terms of like, in terms of my aspirations. When I speak of aspirations, here's a funny one for you. Before I went on to secondary school, my granny, she spoke to a social worker and the social worker said, 'Are you sure Alan's gonna be able for secondary school?' Now I get why that question was asked because of my needs and because of having a disability. She could have said it in, in terms of 'are you sure Alan's going to be able for secondary school because of his disability?' but she should have known from talking to me I was intellectually able for secondary school. She asked me questions, I answered the questions, I was able to respond to her in an articulate way. So, she kind of presumed because of my disability maybe I will not be able for secondary school. And I get that, I do get the question but it kind of annoys me in terms of the way she asked the question - she could have asked it in a different way. The social worker thing is kind of so much of a contrast, as you said, because they're not, they're not all bad people. It probably sounds like, 'Oh, he doesn't like social workers', but no, that's not the thing. Like I'm sure they're lovely people. Their job is kind of a high-pressured job. And I get that. But like, their perceptions of the care system and young people in care, like - and I'm sure my peers in the care system will agree. But I think young people are just a case number to social workers sometimes. ‘Get that one person done. Move on to the next person'. I get that there's an element of that, but like you have to have compassion at the same time in terms of, like I could be having a bad day, I could be stressed out, a phone call would be nice even from the social worker, or your aftercare worker, 'are you okay Alan? Or do you need any help? Or can we support you in any way?’ I know from being in EPIC, I have heard, like, some positive experiences of social workers and aftercare workers but, I've often heard some negative experiences, as well. And from my time in EPIC and doing the research with Deborah, we've heard so many people’s views on stuff in so many situations and so much different experience. And we all, we all just want the same thing, like, we all just want to be listened to, we all just want to be heard.
AF: I have a motto that I use in terms of people with disabilities, but it can go for anybody. And the motto is, 'the only limits in life are the ones you make' which means that, if you're going to make limits, it's going to be harder for you. If you don't make limits for yourself, it'd be, it'd be a lot easier. If you're gonna make limits, if you want to make bother for yourself then you're going to struggle on a day-to-day basis, and it's gonna be a lot harder. And if you're having a bad day, write down why you think you're having a bad day, why do you think this happened? Or why do you think that that bad day was caused, and then you can go back the next day, look at what you wrote down, and then write down positive that you can help yourself on that bad day.
DE: I love your advice. I'm going to take that one up. It kind of actually, nicely leads on to my next question, because I'm just wondering what advice you would give to young people who want to make a difference in the world? And whatever the issue is that that that they care about, what would you say to them?
AF: Well, it depends, like, I know some people are shy. And I'm far from shy as you can tell, but I know some people are shy and a bit introverted. But I'm extroverted, I'm outgoing, but I know like, for some people, they don't speak to many people, or they’re not, they don't really have the confidence to speak in public settings or, like, have the confidence to express their problem. But I'd say to a young person if you don't do that, and you keep in, you will struggle for yourself. I get it's hard to kind of express your feelings if you're in a difficult situation. But if you express your feelings to a person you can trust or to a teacher that you can trust or to a friend, you might be able to express that issue to more people. Like if you start off at one person, and then you can expand that to two maybe three, and then if you're confident enough you can public speak about the situation. Since being in EPIC - we're all confident, we're all unique in our own different ways but there's so much diversity on the EPIC Youth Council, it's mind-blowing, because there's kind of so much like, there's so many attributes in, in the people on the Youth Council. And it's kind of great to see ‘cos an organisation like EPIC do talk about sensitive issues. And it's great to see so many young people like myself and the rest of the Youth Council able to express how they feel, able to challenge government bodies, professionals, social workers. And since I've been in EPIC, I've realised that, like there's so many people that can make change, there's so many people out there that can make change. And you can be one of those people, it's just believing in yourself to be one of those people – if you don't believe, nobody else will believe in you. So, if you're finding it hard to kind of express yourself, don't be, because when you express yourself a whole different, a whole different door will open for you to explore. It might not open straight away, but it will open. And, like, I've noticed that with EPIC, they let that door open for you. If you want to make change, just believe in yourself. And as I say, like, write down what the problem is, what the issue is and if it takes you a week, if it takes you a month, if it takes you a year, you'll get to where you want to go to.
DE: That's great practical advice, again, like so encouraging Alan. Last question, I'm just curious, what do you think it is that young people can bring to the world? And you know, why do you think it's important that their voices are heard? And that they get a platform to do good work and to bring about change?
AF: Young people can offer so much. The only example I can use is EPIC. EPIC again, because we are epic! But no, the Youth Council again, it's a great platform to be in because like, we might have all different experiences but we're kind of pushing for the same thing. We're kind of like pushing for change but like, we all want the same change. If you want to change something, like it's not gonna change in the blink of an eye, you kinda have to persist on what you want changed. And since I've been in EPIC, like, that's, that's what we do. It's kind of like, we want to make change, but we also want to see change. There's no point in making change if you don't see change. Like I'll tell you this. I have missed loads of EPIC events because of taxis not showing up. And I feel that I'm letting EPIC down because of the taxi service is not being, not being reliable. But I spoke to the EPIC CEO about that, and she said, 'Never feel like you're letting EPIC down because, you're not, you've done so much for this organisation', which was really nice to hear. Like I was saying society can be the disabling factor sometimes. If society let us do what we wanted to do as a person with a disability, like, it would be so much of a better place. Thank you, Deborah for this opportunity of the interview today. I hope your listeners really enjoyed that and I'm sure they got some insight.
DE: You were kind of joking that ‘we are epic’ and I think you're definitely epic in so many ways. And I think you really epitomise the values of the organisation. And you're so articulate in speaking for and with other young people. And it's been really super to have you on the podcast today.
OUTRO
I hope you enjoyed hearing from Alan, he’s got such a lovely sense of humour and has been incredibly committed in his role on EPIC’s Youth Council. I was really struck by what he was saying about how society can be the disabling factor in the day-to-day experiences of young people with disabilities. I’d love to hear what your takeaways are from the conversation so please let me know your thoughts by visiting https://www.citizensnowpodcast.org/.
Well, it’s hard to believe but that’s a wrap on the very first season of the Citizens Now Podcast. There are wonderful humans out there who gave me their time and invaluable advice to get this thing off the ground – shout outs to Davy Sims, Ruairí McKiernan, and Jude Mitchell. Then there were so many good friends who have been an ongoing source of encouragement which helped me stick with it. Thanks also to colleagues in the youth and community sector at home and around the world who connected me with the incredible young people who have been my guests in this season.
My biggest thanks then goes to Delvina, Mia, Kate, Sen, Lauren, and Alan for your willingness to be interviewed – not least for your patience with my glacially slow post-production efforts but most of all for your wisdom, energy, and belief that the world can be a better place and that we can make it happen together. I have a deep respect for you all and your dedication to social justice.
Finally, to you the listener, thank you for being with me on this journey. If you’ve enjoyed the podcast, I would be so grateful if you would share it with others and also it would be amazing if you would give us a rating and review so that more people can find out about it.
And, if you’re willing to contribute to my tip jar at ko-fi.com/debserwin, that will give me some fuel to bring Season 2 to life. The link is in the show notes. Thank you!
