Exploring Expectations with Life Coach Susannah Ludwig

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Sure. Welcome us in. Yeah. All right. Here we go.
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Hi, everybody. Welcome to The Circle with Allie and Karen.
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We're thrilled to have back Susanna Ludwig, life coach specializing in life
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transitions, specifically relationship transitions.
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And I think you'll all know I've had the great fortune of getting to work with
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Susanna for many years as a coach.
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And so we're just thrilled to have you back. Hi, Susanna. Thanks for being here.
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Hi, I'm so excited to be here. The last couple of times have been so magical.
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It feels really fun. I think I'll never say no. I think I'll always say yes. That's so wonderful.
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Every time we finish our conversations, we think about what can we do next because
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it was so fun. Great. Right.
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Yeah. Yeah. So Susanna, Allie and I were just talking about relationships and
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expectations that come with relationships that come during this time of year
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as we're transitioning into the holiday season and what it looks like.
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But it feels like, especially for us, you know,
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we call ourselves women in the midlife transition and all that brings,
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we feel responsible sometimes for our family and family traditions and our children's
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expectations or our parents' expectations.
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And so just wanted to get into conversation around what you see coming up,
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how you like to coach people through this time and, you know,
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how we talk about expectation in general.
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Yeah, I mean, I think, especially for women our age, we're in that sandwich
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generation where we often have responsibilities with parents and also children.
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And so that's a lot, right? And holidays just in general have lots of,
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there's a lot of rules typically with most families about the way things should be or how they should go.
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So the first thing I always share with clients is that they should first take
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a minute and get really clear about what they want.
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What do they want their holiday to look like?
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Do they want to do their traditions they've always done with their parents?
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Or do they want to create new ones with their children or maybe somewhere in the middle?
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And really focusing on what are the most important things that they want to
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fight for that they really hold
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sacred? What are the priorities and what things can they maybe let go of?
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I think that simplifying is really, really important. Making things as simple as possible.
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And when, after you reflect and take some time and think about like,
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what are the meaning, what is the meaning of the holidays for you?
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And how do you set up your life and your calendar and your events and your traditions
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in a way that serves your own values and your own priorities.
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Yeah, that makes so much sense because I'm, as we're talking about this,
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I'm thinking, like you said, of the sandwich generation and women in midlife,
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like we have so much to manage.
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There's so much that we're managing and it feels like expectations is one more thing to manage.
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It's our own expectations, our family expectations. And, you know,
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when you marry into another family, Now you've adopted this whole other,
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you know, slew of expectations that can look very different from your own family.
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And so I'm also hearing this, and I wonder if it strikes either of you too,
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like it's almost like expectations and boundaries.
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100%. Kind of go hand in hand. Like I'm hearing you speak of almost like protecting
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a boundary around something. Yeah.
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I was actually just texting yesterday with a client and this client has two
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brothers and one of her brother's wives always likes her holiday to go her way, right?
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And she sort of gets the family to schedule it around her way.
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And my client isn't happy with that because she's like, why does she get to
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pick what we do that doesn't really make, it isn't really fair.
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So long story short, after much back and forth, I finally ultimately said to
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her, like, you have three options.
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You can do what your sister-in-law wants you to do, even though that doesn't feel right to you.
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You can not do what she wants you to do, but accept the reality that that means
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you might not spend your holiday with your brother.
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Okay, that's option two. And option three is that perhaps there's a middle ground.
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Perhaps you go spend an hour with them and then you go and have your holiday
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the way you want to have it.
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And I think getting really clear, like, she really didn't want to give up her
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whole time, but she also didn't want to rock the boat so much.
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Yeah. And how great to have that other option of a both and versus, like, an or.
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Yes. Yeah. Yes. That's really great perspective.
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Yeah. And there's so much to it, too, that's even coming back to the core root
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of, like, what is important to me? What do I want?
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What can I ask for and also
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what can I create you know so there's
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like taking it I just this is what's coming up
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for me it's like taking agency in it too not just like I wish that everyone
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would you know do this thing my way but like what is my way how do I share it
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how do I create it how do I invite people in yeah yeah and I think being really
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clear and Karen you and I were speaking about this,
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like to explicitly share your expectation.
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You know, it's so challenging when you're in relationship with somebody that
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clearly has an expectation and then it becomes even more clear that you're not
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meeting it somehow. Yeah.
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Right. And then there's disappointment or angst or, you know,
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any sort of drama that could come with that.
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So this idea of agency and intention and kind of actively taking part in your expectation.
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Like Karen was saying, like I want, before we started recording,
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like, you know, if you want this cozy, beautiful holiday, you can't just think
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in your head, I really want a cozy, beautiful holiday.
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Well, what are you willing to do to create that for yourself?
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And what are you willing to communicate to your partner or your extended family
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to, you know, bring them in on that expectation?
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Yeah. And I think that's the rub. It seems to be unspoken so much.
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I wonder what that's about. Thank you.
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Yeah, well, I mean, I think in our culture, we as women are sort of told that
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we have to serve everyone else.
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And so it's sort of like our job to make sure that everyone is happy and they're getting taken care of.
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And it's almost taboos, quietly taboo for us to like, put a stake in the ground
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and say, no, I want to do it this way.
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Another when you were talking made me think of another conversation I
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had earlier today with a different client about something else that's related
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to what we're discussing which is we were talking about gifts and she was saying
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that her husband really loves gifts like he loved he's the most thoughtful gift
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giver and he also really likes to receive them but she's really not good at
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it she doesn't like it and it's not her thing,
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and I said well let me just ask you a question did you ever ask him what he wants,
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And she said, oh, I guess I could ask him.
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I always thought I was supposed to come up with something.
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And I said, well, if you ask him and he tells you, then it's a win-win for everybody
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because he gets what he wants and you give him what he wants.
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And she's like, oh, that's a great idea. So I think even to your point,
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Allie, about explicit communication, being super clear, what do I want for my
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holiday gift this year? if I even want a holiday gift. Maybe you don't.
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Yeah. So it's not just expectations of other people. It's expectations of ourselves.
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She was expecting to be able to give this perfect gift and was disappointed
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potentially that she wasn't able to do that.
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We could remove that completely by just asking a simple question.
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And it's another thing we were talking about was this idea, and maybe Karen can expand on this.
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It's like expectations are either passive or active. Like you could actively
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be involved or you can just passively expect.
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Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I was thinking about it in terms of like those
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unspoken expectations that make everybody feel guilty and uncomfortable and versus like.
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I feel like when you actually say it, it stops being an expectation and it just
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becomes like a request or a wish.
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And, you know, I was even wondering about the word expectation.
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Like, what does it actually mean? Is it something that we say or is it just
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expectation because it's that unspoken thing?
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Yeah, I feel like it has that connotation of being unspoken.
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That's what I think of unspoken. Yeah.
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And passive. Like somebody else is going to provide this for me.
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And if I don't live up to it, too, then there's going to be some kind of consequence.
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If it's guilt, if it's, you know, feeling bad about myself, if it's feeling
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let down, you know, it's got a funny connotation to it.
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I just like looked it up, actually.
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I'm like, what is the definition? So two, right? So a strong belief that something
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will happen or be the case in the future.
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So that's one definition. And then the other, which I think is more to our point,
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a belief that someone will or should achieve something, right?
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We don't know the word should is just a big old a-hole and like,
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you don't want to use that word should so much.
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So that in and of itself creates like that bit of guilt or that word should
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just isn't a very positive, doesn't have a positive connotation in my mind.
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I totally agree. Yeah, so it's kind of inherently setting up for,
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you know, disappointment or something, right? Yeah.
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Interesting. And I think, like most conundrums, it all comes back to just asking
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the very simple question, like, what do I want? Yeah. Yeah.
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Yeah. And how ripe is that? Because how many people don't even know? Right.
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Right. Or they might know, but they don't know how, you know.
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But if you don't even know, then you can't get to what you want.
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Yeah. Well, and then, yeah, how do you help someone get to that place of knowing what they want?
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How do I personally? Yeah. Well, I think it's sort of peeling the layers of
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the onion by continuing to ask more and more questions.
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Like, for example, I'll give you an example. I have another client who was for
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a long time living with her mom, and her mom had a boyfriend that was sort of
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taking over some of their traditions.
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And she was really worried that Christmas was going to become about them and
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not about her, and that that shift was going to be challenging.
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So I said, okay, well, let's talk about which Christmas traditions are most important to you.
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And we came up with a list of you know she
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she likes getting the tree she likes watching a
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couple specific christmas movies she likes baking something she had a list of
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maybe five things and i said okay well do you think that it's possible for you
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to do those things regardless of whether your mom is in it with you and then
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maybe to ask your mom to participate with you in one or two of them.
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So that way you're still getting what you want, but you're upholding your own.
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Most important list. And your holiday is still going to feel Christmassy in
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the beautiful way that you want it to, whether or not it stays the same or changes. Yeah.
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Yeah. And how did that client receive that? She thought it was great.
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And actually, I think she since has moved out of her mother's house,
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but I think we had that conversation, I think, two Christmases ago and it worked.
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She did all the things and she had a great Christmas and then she repeated
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it last year and use
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the same same thoughts and enjoyed her
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holiday amazing and i
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like you said something like like she can invite her mom
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to participate in two of them like yeah we can do the things we want and still
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invite people to be a part of it with us because it's important to us it doesn't
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have to just be yeah it's like shifting the expectation you know it's like I
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don't want to say like lowering.
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I hear that a lot. Like, oh, just don't have any expectations and you'll never
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be disappointed, right? That's like an old adage or lowering your expectations
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so you're not disappointed.
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But I think we can, again, not this either or, I think we can have a both and.
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Like we can adjust our expectations and then not feel disappointed and still
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get what we desire. Yeah.
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And when we know what we desire, then it's easier to make it happen.
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And so now that same client lives by herself and this year she's gonna do some
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of those same things and now that she's in the practice of getting that clarity
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it's even easier and more fun for her.
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Her new home where she's exerting what she wants right yeah right yeah that
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clarity and intention is such like an undercurrent of all of this i think yeah
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absolutely yeah it like helps us create So it helps us create the holidays we
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want, but it also helps us, like,
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create the life we want and the relationships we want, right? I mean, like...
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The more we can do this in everyday life, too, will just help strengthen our
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relationships with the people we love.
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Yeah, I think so. Yeah, just in our intimate relationships and our work relationships,
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I do think that these kind of unspoken expectations are the root of so much
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angst and discomfort and arguments.
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And I know I shared with Karen in my own marriage, Like I decided like this
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past spring, I was like, I want a hot, intimate marriage.
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Like that is what I expect it. I want it.
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And so, you know, that's a, like, am I going to sit back and passively wait
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for that to happen and expect my husband to do all of the things to make that a reality?
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Or am I going to, in every interaction, create that, you know?
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Yeah. And like, how do I change my reactions, my intentions, my language?
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And, you know, attitude around so many different things and make that my reality.
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And so now that is my expectation, but that's a real mindset.
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And that was a big mindset shift for me, you know.
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And, you know, bless my mom for having a, you know, my mom and dad,
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they've got this amazing marriage.
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They've been together for 50 years, married for 50 years. And she says to this
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day, like, you know, our partners aren't mind readers.
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We have to actually ask for what we want. And I see that and hear that from
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friends and clients really expecting their partners to provide things that they're not asking for.
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And it's like, you're setting yourself up for failure. 100%.
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100%. Another version of that is having some conscious thoughts that you're
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not saying out loud that are negative towards your partner.
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And then you're expecting your partner to show up and be amazing and loving
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when you're energetically either withholding or angry or something.
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That was a big tip. Yes. And that's the big tip that I personally made.
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And it's going great. you know it's been
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happy to hear that yeah it's been a really positive shift
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because i was kind of seeing some patterns and
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didn't like where it was going and i was like this is i i
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expect more and better and want that
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and so yeah it was a real mindset shift to be
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like okay if that's my expectation what is my responsibility to make that happen
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and to like recruit him to join me in that yeah oh that's so good like instead
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of saying this is what i want like what are you going to do about it like recruiting in it's inviting in.
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And it's also saying who you're willing to do. It's not just the invitation,
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but it's also showing up and saying like, I'm not expecting you to do this.
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I'm expecting we together are going to do it. Yeah.
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And I think that's a really big, you know, point that comes up in this midlife
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transition as, you know, we're stepping into, you know, I've heard like the
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CEO role of our lives a bit.
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And I do see, you know, in my own community and network of people,
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like marriage is ending.
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Like more than I expected at this
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point in life in our life and and I do sometimes just wonder is that just women
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being like I'm actually not gonna put up with this anymore or you know realizing
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that there wasn't it's just kind of this power position that we kind of step
00:17:13.280 --> 00:17:17.560
into of getting more clear like you said getting that clarity on what we want
00:17:17.560 --> 00:17:19.960
and are we willing to act on that.
00:17:21.620 --> 00:17:26.480
Yeah. I mean, I have so much to say. I'm just trying to get my clearest best
00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:27.600
thought about what you just said.
00:17:27.720 --> 00:17:35.140
But yeah, I mean, I think that as we get older and as the chapter that we're
00:17:35.140 --> 00:17:39.560
in, so maybe we raise children and now our children are getting ready to leave the nest,
00:17:40.260 --> 00:17:45.400
and we're suddenly faced with a lot more time and a lot more openness and or
00:17:45.400 --> 00:17:47.500
there's other big issues that come up,
00:17:47.620 --> 00:17:51.400
like you lose someone or you live through a pandemic or you have a job change
00:17:51.400 --> 00:17:58.260
or any of those things, it pushes you towards getting really clear about like, am I happy?
00:17:58.380 --> 00:18:02.460
That's why actually I started coaching three years before the pandemic and it
00:18:02.460 --> 00:18:07.880
was a perfect time because in the middle of the pandemic, a lot of people were not liking their life.
00:18:08.020 --> 00:18:11.000
They were not liking their spouse that they were stuck with.
00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:15.640
They were not liking their job that they were doing remotely.
00:18:16.500 --> 00:18:20.140
They didn't like their house. They didn't like a lot of things, their health habits.
00:18:21.376 --> 00:18:26.336
And so anyway, when there's a major catalyst like that, then there's sort of,
00:18:26.476 --> 00:18:30.396
if you're open and you're listening to yourself, there can be lots of questions
00:18:30.396 --> 00:18:33.716
that sort of push us along to the next chapter.
00:18:33.716 --> 00:18:37.576
Yeah totally yep I
00:18:37.576 --> 00:18:40.456
see that happening around me a ton and that
00:18:40.456 --> 00:18:43.136
is and so that mid-life transition just being one more of
00:18:43.136 --> 00:18:45.916
those catalysts right that's kind of facing the
00:18:45.916 --> 00:18:50.596
music and facing the expectations or maybe recognizing that expectations haven't
00:18:50.596 --> 00:18:58.816
been met you know yeah it's really it's very interesting so yeah I mean I love
00:18:58.816 --> 00:19:03.796
working with women when they're at the beginning any stage of that really,
00:19:03.976 --> 00:19:07.996
but especially when they're in the beginning stages of questioning,
00:19:07.996 --> 00:19:10.116
because I always say, well,
00:19:10.356 --> 00:19:13.036
can you get what you want from your marriage? Have you tried?
00:19:14.296 --> 00:19:18.696
That's the first thing. Is it possible?
00:19:18.976 --> 00:19:23.016
Because I, having been divorced, I mean, I'm so madly in love with my new husband,
00:19:23.176 --> 00:19:26.356
but nobody wants to go through a divorce. Who wants to do that?
00:19:26.536 --> 00:19:28.836
I'm not the first to push people to get divorced.
00:19:29.036 --> 00:19:32.756
So it's better to try to make what you have work, if it's workable.
00:19:33.416 --> 00:19:37.536
And if it's not, why are you wasting one more moment of your precious life?
00:19:38.296 --> 00:19:41.416
That's so powerful. It is so powerful. Yeah.
00:19:43.316 --> 00:19:46.716
So how do you coach people through that? Like starting with that,
00:19:46.816 --> 00:19:51.296
like just asking these questions, like when we get to that point where there's
00:19:51.296 --> 00:19:54.696
an expectation that's maybe not being met or coming up against that,
00:19:54.816 --> 00:19:58.296
whether it's in a marriage or a career or anything,
00:19:58.596 --> 00:20:02.596
like what is kind of the first step in coaching somebody through that?
00:20:04.362 --> 00:20:08.422
I mean, it's different for everybody, but I think the overall strategy is to
00:20:08.422 --> 00:20:16.142
try to get them to be honest and to then ask a lot of questions that uncover, like,
00:20:16.262 --> 00:20:19.662
what do you want? Are you communicating what you want?
00:20:20.502 --> 00:20:25.942
Is it possible with that job, that husband, that house you live in,
00:20:26.102 --> 00:20:27.922
whatever the thing is that you want to change?
00:20:28.462 --> 00:20:32.762
And just really digging deep to where is that expectation coming from?
00:20:33.622 --> 00:20:38.722
Is it just that you want more sex or is it that you're actually not attracted to your husband?
00:20:38.902 --> 00:20:42.562
You've never been attracted to your husband. Like what is the, what is the thing?
00:20:42.742 --> 00:20:46.882
Is it, has it always been there or is it just there recently because suddenly
00:20:46.882 --> 00:20:48.502
your communication has gone downhill?
00:20:49.642 --> 00:20:54.162
And then once we peel back some of those truths, then sort of talk through,
00:20:54.422 --> 00:20:56.502
well, what do you think the options are?
00:20:57.142 --> 00:21:01.062
I can brainstorm lots of options, but what is your heart telling you?
00:21:01.222 --> 00:21:03.362
Is it telling you that now's the time to go?
00:21:03.842 --> 00:21:08.682
Or is it telling you that maybe you're not ready to go and you want to work a little harder first?
00:21:08.962 --> 00:21:14.062
Or in some cases, maybe you're unhappy and you want to express it,
00:21:14.122 --> 00:21:16.382
but you don't really want to do anything about it. You just want to complain.
00:21:16.522 --> 00:21:19.282
I mean, some people just want to complain and that's okay too.
00:21:21.602 --> 00:21:26.382
But it's like choosing. Yeah. Making a choice. Exactly. Mm-hmm.
00:21:26.942 --> 00:21:32.802
Yeah. Like having agency. I'm still like stuck back in our conversation a little
00:21:32.802 --> 00:21:35.942
bit about like, what is it about this?
00:21:36.182 --> 00:21:39.202
I mean, I know we had the pandemic, but like, if you take that away,
00:21:39.502 --> 00:21:44.662
what is it about like our, this time of life, our, whatever it is,
00:21:44.722 --> 00:21:50.062
our hormone shifts are, that like puts us in this questioning place and like,
00:21:50.782 --> 00:21:54.662
and how do we figure out how to be the CEO, you know, the CEO,
00:21:54.862 --> 00:22:03.122
cause it's quite angsty, you know, you, we find ourselves all of a sudden looking at everything.
00:22:03.202 --> 00:22:08.162
And I, I, it's, it's so interesting that it happens at this time,
00:22:08.362 --> 00:22:13.822
kind of down the line. And it's like, even from an evolutionary standpoint,
00:22:13.862 --> 00:22:16.022
like, what is this meant to do?
00:22:16.262 --> 00:22:21.662
Like, is it meant to bring us to be like, I don't know, the leaders were meant
00:22:21.662 --> 00:22:28.942
to be or the stepping into our power because of how women used to be, you know,
00:22:29.242 --> 00:22:35.482
the goddesses, the witches, the whatever it was in, in our ancestry, you know, I'm like,
00:22:36.302 --> 00:22:38.442
why? Yes.
00:22:42.682 --> 00:22:48.042
Like, why do we have to go through this? You know, why do we have to go through
00:22:48.042 --> 00:22:49.742
this? Like I have the needle questioning.
00:22:52.302 --> 00:22:55.682
Moment. You don't have to answer. I wonder why.
00:22:56.602 --> 00:23:00.562
I guess I wonder in a way, like, why is that bad? Right. Right.
00:23:01.062 --> 00:23:04.802
Well, okay, so that's right. Why? It's about being uncomfortable.
00:23:05.582 --> 00:23:10.762
Right. And deciding that actually being uncomfortable is not a bad thing.
00:23:11.342 --> 00:23:15.642
Isn't it okay to be uncomfortable if the other side of that discomfort is a
00:23:15.642 --> 00:23:18.322
better life for yourself? Right. Right.
00:23:18.902 --> 00:23:23.342
And when you think about it from, like, that evolutionary perspective and hormones
00:23:23.342 --> 00:23:29.682
and everything, We really are transitioning from the reproductive years where
00:23:29.682 --> 00:23:32.562
the role is mother reproduction.
00:23:32.622 --> 00:23:40.702
That stops for every woman, whether that's surgically, whether that's naturally as a age.
00:23:40.902 --> 00:23:46.642
It happens to every single woman. And so we are stepping into this next chapter
00:23:46.642 --> 00:23:51.742
that's separate from our reproduction, which in our culture seems to be the
00:23:51.742 --> 00:23:54.982
prized years, right? the reproductive years and in so many cultures.
00:23:55.222 --> 00:24:01.782
So the second half of life, there is that really natural inherent transition point.
00:24:02.142 --> 00:24:08.762
So how beautiful if we can look at that through that, through the lens of yes,
00:24:08.762 --> 00:24:13.662
it might be uncomfortable, but oh my gosh, look at how amazing it is on the other side. Yes.
00:24:14.282 --> 00:24:17.482
And it's almost like what you're making me remember is a really important truth,
00:24:17.482 --> 00:24:20.462
which is that our bodies lead us right so like
00:24:20.462 --> 00:24:23.322
we go through this these transitions with our bodies
00:24:23.322 --> 00:24:26.242
that lead us to where we want to be in the same way
00:24:26.242 --> 00:24:29.622
that we went through those transitions when we were teenagers and started
00:24:29.622 --> 00:24:34.962
getting our period which led us into early womanhood right so if we can follow
00:24:34.962 --> 00:24:40.582
that rhythm organically then we are led if we're listening that just literally
00:24:40.582 --> 00:24:44.762
gave me the chills i know because it is it's this is like the reverse puberty
00:24:44.762 --> 00:24:46.542
it's exactly what it is Yes.
00:24:46.802 --> 00:24:49.502
So, and so we can be freed from that.
00:24:50.122 --> 00:24:52.982
That's right. I'm going to say this with air quotes, like burden,
00:24:53.582 --> 00:24:57.982
you know, reproduction and thinking about that and even having to be a mother
00:24:57.982 --> 00:25:01.282
and we can be free now to have a different focus.
00:25:01.962 --> 00:25:05.462
Or to take the power that it took us to be a mother and put it into something
00:25:05.462 --> 00:25:08.462
else and get clear about what that is.
00:25:08.742 --> 00:25:11.502
Not to say that we're not going to still be mothers because of course we're
00:25:11.502 --> 00:25:16.062
going to be a mother until we're not alive anymore, But the overall sort of
00:25:16.062 --> 00:25:21.402
full-time focus, I mean, I even feel it with my son as he's getting ready to graduate high school.
00:25:21.582 --> 00:25:28.522
I had his parent-teacher conferences this morning and the last one of his that I'll ever go to.
00:25:28.922 --> 00:25:33.402
And, you know, it feels like, all right, onward.
00:25:34.242 --> 00:25:41.442
Onward. Yeah. And to, yeah, and I think it's, I'm so grateful that we're bringing
00:25:41.442 --> 00:25:46.522
this into it. I'm so glad you brought this up, Karen, because I think that the...
00:25:47.222 --> 00:25:51.682
The easy thing to do or the kind of way that we move through life is avoiding discomfort.
00:25:51.902 --> 00:25:53.562
Like, we want to avoid it, right? We want to be comfortable,
00:25:53.762 --> 00:25:58.682
avoid the pain, avoid the uncomfortable conversations, hence the expectations. It's all tied in.
00:25:59.082 --> 00:26:02.962
We can't avoid this. Like, this transition's happening.
00:26:03.102 --> 00:26:05.902
It's coming. Or if you're listening and you've already been through it,
00:26:05.962 --> 00:26:08.422
you know. And it's going to be uncomfortable.
00:26:08.742 --> 00:26:15.242
And so, to normalize that is so important, I think, and to understand it's normal to be questioning.
00:26:15.762 --> 00:26:18.742
It's okay to question your marriage
00:26:18.742 --> 00:26:21.742
and it's okay to question your career and to
00:26:21.742 --> 00:26:24.342
question your role in this life because and i think
00:26:24.342 --> 00:26:27.622
it's also facing mortality a little bit right we're
00:26:27.622 --> 00:26:30.402
at the halfway point or some of us maybe even
00:26:30.402 --> 00:26:33.542
beyond the halfway point and it's it's a
00:26:33.542 --> 00:26:37.582
good time to reflect and to ask those questions yeah
00:26:37.582 --> 00:26:40.262
yeah that's a big one too because we
00:26:40.262 --> 00:26:43.562
actually don't even know if it's our midpoint right like we just
00:26:43.562 --> 00:26:48.002
have today right now so right
00:26:48.002 --> 00:26:52.922
how do what do we want this right now to be yeah yeah
00:26:52.922 --> 00:26:56.162
it's so powerful it's it is and
00:26:56.162 --> 00:27:00.182
I love Susanna when you were talking about how you approach this and the questions
00:27:00.182 --> 00:27:03.722
and everything I'm just thinking like oh I just love coaching because it's just
00:27:03.722 --> 00:27:10.682
right this right it's just because it's questions right we're holding space
00:27:10.682 --> 00:27:13.442
for clients to answer their own questions,
00:27:13.742 --> 00:27:16.362
to tap into their own inner knowing.
00:27:16.482 --> 00:27:20.042
And I just think there's nothing more beautiful than that, than witnessing somebody
00:27:20.042 --> 00:27:24.382
access their truth is like such a gift.
00:27:25.082 --> 00:27:29.682
And it's knowing the skills of coaching to ask the right questions and to keep
00:27:29.682 --> 00:27:32.322
going and to do that, but we all have it.
00:27:32.402 --> 00:27:36.542
And so, yeah, I just, I love this idea of asking questioning questions,
00:27:36.742 --> 00:27:40.122
questioning your expectations, questioning all the things is so...
00:27:41.182 --> 00:27:43.902
Important i think part of i once did a
00:27:43.902 --> 00:27:47.682
video interview with a famous writer named peter matheson and
00:27:47.682 --> 00:27:51.482
for a video series that i was producing in my form in my first career before
00:27:51.482 --> 00:27:55.582
i was coach and he said this quote which i'll never forget which is he said
00:27:55.582 --> 00:27:58.742
something like he wrote that book called the snow leopard which you might have
00:27:58.742 --> 00:28:02.202
heard of which is kind of a famous book but he he said something about like
00:28:02.202 --> 00:28:05.262
getting older is is allowing for things to fall away.
00:28:07.422 --> 00:28:10.222
And that felt really beautiful to me then and still
00:28:10.222 --> 00:28:13.042
does because I think that's part of our journey is as we
00:28:13.042 --> 00:28:17.902
get older we are like getting clearer and clearer and clearer and letting the
00:28:17.902 --> 00:28:24.702
rest of it just fall away and be okay with that I love that like let being okay
00:28:24.702 --> 00:28:30.022
with letting go like it's not a bad thing no it's actually a beautiful thing
00:28:30.022 --> 00:28:32.762
yeah that's a reframe too Yeah.
00:28:33.542 --> 00:28:37.602
And that letting go, like circling that into expectations, like letting go of
00:28:37.602 --> 00:28:41.822
certain expectations that we might have of ourselves, of our children,
00:28:41.822 --> 00:28:46.782
of our partners, of what this is supposed to be, or that was supposed to be.
00:28:46.882 --> 00:28:49.702
I think that is so empowering.
00:28:50.202 --> 00:28:55.582
Yeah. Yeah. And just removing, I recently read something like that around manifestation
00:28:55.582 --> 00:29:00.922
and abundance. And it's not like it's, it was a reframe that I thought was powerful in that same way.
00:29:01.022 --> 00:29:04.582
Like abundance, and manifesting it isn't like doing more.
00:29:04.802 --> 00:29:08.202
It's like removing the blocks to us. Like that is our birthright.
00:29:08.302 --> 00:29:13.402
And so it's like, what do we need to let go of so it can come to us versus like,
00:29:13.462 --> 00:29:14.602
what do we have to do, do, do?
00:29:15.142 --> 00:29:21.462
Yes. Yeah. So that's the gift of this time too. That letting go is really, it's really beautiful.
00:29:22.102 --> 00:29:25.722
Yeah. Yeah. It's letting go of also like, right?
00:29:26.002 --> 00:29:31.422
The things we've built up that our own obstacles to having the life we want.
00:29:31.942 --> 00:29:35.382
Out of protecting ourselves, right? Like the things we learned in our childhood,
00:29:35.602 --> 00:29:38.522
the things we've learned throughout our lives that like keep us safe.
00:29:39.762 --> 00:29:45.922
It's letting go of those blockages also just so we can actually live through
00:29:45.922 --> 00:29:48.082
them, get to the other side. Yeah.
00:29:49.362 --> 00:29:54.562
Yeah. And the word rigid just popped into my mind too, because that's something I think about a lot.
00:29:54.622 --> 00:30:00.222
The older I get, I want to be less rigid and like less willing to believe everything I think.
00:30:00.222 --> 00:30:03.402
And like you know just less certain
00:30:03.402 --> 00:30:06.222
of all the things and like I think there's a lot of beauty in
00:30:06.222 --> 00:30:09.042
that so it's a softening you know that letting go
00:30:09.042 --> 00:30:12.762
and releasing it's like a softening into what is a
00:30:12.762 --> 00:30:17.862
bit more yeah a beautiful part there's there are the gifts and these painful
00:30:17.862 --> 00:30:21.702
you know potentially painful transitions that we go through there's so many
00:30:21.702 --> 00:30:28.042
gifts if we can like shift the perspective just a bit yeah I mean I always I've
00:30:28.042 --> 00:30:30.782
said this many times about my own divorce,
00:30:31.182 --> 00:30:34.602
to that point, to your point, like I would never...
00:30:35.538 --> 00:30:37.898
I would never recommend divorce. I don't think it's a great thing.
00:30:38.078 --> 00:30:40.038
It's not what I ever would have wanted.
00:30:40.338 --> 00:30:47.538
But the positive shift is that doing that totally changed my own relationship to myself.
00:30:50.518 --> 00:30:55.558
And trusting my own instincts and getting clearer about what was best for me
00:30:55.558 --> 00:31:00.358
and figuring out how to make choices based on that totally came out of that
00:31:00.358 --> 00:31:02.858
pain of making that choice.
00:31:04.218 --> 00:31:08.358
Yeah. that's beautiful yeah amazing
00:31:08.358 --> 00:31:10.998
yeah there can be joy
00:31:10.998 --> 00:31:14.838
there can be positivity from most things
00:31:14.838 --> 00:31:18.658
absolutely yeah yeah
00:31:18.658 --> 00:31:21.418
you gotta just yeah i think that's the
00:31:21.418 --> 00:31:24.518
same thing even about like experiencing emotion and
00:31:24.518 --> 00:31:27.378
like allowing ourselves to feel emotion right like out of
00:31:27.378 --> 00:31:30.198
grief out of sadness out of
00:31:30.198 --> 00:31:33.998
despair also comes that same clarity like in
00:31:33.998 --> 00:31:36.858
order to have we have talked about this before even
00:31:36.858 --> 00:31:39.738
joy you know we also have to have sorrow and
00:31:39.738 --> 00:31:43.038
I think it's it's allowing ourselves to feel
00:31:43.038 --> 00:31:46.198
and to grieve and to celebrate and all
00:31:46.198 --> 00:31:49.318
of the things yeah yeah because
00:31:49.318 --> 00:31:52.978
I think if we cut ourselves off from one end of that spectrum avoiding
00:31:52.978 --> 00:31:55.958
sorrow and avoiding pain then we
00:31:55.958 --> 00:31:59.238
don't get to feel the full expression on the other end of that spectrum like
00:31:59.238 --> 00:32:03.038
we really have to feel it all to experience that's
00:32:03.038 --> 00:32:09.218
right all this on both ends yeah yeah that is feel it to heal it corny as it
00:32:09.218 --> 00:32:13.958
is i never heard that before that's so great oh yeah you gotta feel it to heal
00:32:13.958 --> 00:32:19.038
it let it move through well on a lighter note that reminds me of motion is lotion
00:32:19.038 --> 00:32:20.618
you know Also, as we get older,
00:32:20.838 --> 00:32:25.598
we have to move our bodies so we don't, like, joints don't stiffen.
00:32:25.718 --> 00:32:29.538
I giggle about motion is lotion all the time. Oh, that's such a good one. Yeah.
00:32:29.998 --> 00:32:34.158
So, you know, throw the sayings into the midlife condition pop.
00:32:34.458 --> 00:32:36.778
Oh, and then what that just made me think of just to totally,
00:32:36.778 --> 00:32:39.878
like, riff off that is, like, emotions are energy in motion.
00:32:40.278 --> 00:32:45.638
And so that's why we feel them like we do. So we actually have to move them through our body.
00:32:45.638 --> 00:32:51.938
So that whole motion and feeling it, it's really all connected to letting those,
00:32:52.098 --> 00:32:56.198
the full breadth of our experience move through our bodies.
00:32:56.578 --> 00:33:00.878
Yes. And that actually brings me back a point in what you were saying earlier,
00:33:00.998 --> 00:33:03.918
Susanna, about like our bodies know.
00:33:04.378 --> 00:33:09.118
Yeah. Right? We tend to spend so much time up here in our brains thinking about
00:33:09.118 --> 00:33:14.538
things, but actually if we can release them into our bodies and listen to our
00:33:14.538 --> 00:33:17.658
bodies and let our bodies lead, but that is challenging.
00:33:18.138 --> 00:33:23.258
Yeah, of course. And I wonder what, you know, how you lead people into that.
00:33:23.709 --> 00:33:27.489
Through that, into that space of like letting our bodies lead?
00:33:28.509 --> 00:33:35.709
That's a hard question. I, yeah, I think that I, well, when I'm coaching somebody
00:33:35.709 --> 00:33:42.909
around that, I think I use my intuition to sense whether their body needs something else.
00:33:43.669 --> 00:33:51.209
And then I would gently ask them, you know, what do you think your body needs right now?
00:33:52.509 --> 00:33:55.369
How are you feeling physically are you
00:33:55.369 --> 00:33:58.109
having because getting back to something we were talking
00:33:58.109 --> 00:34:01.169
about before around these transitions and
00:34:01.169 --> 00:34:05.749
what we need you know how many times have you heard a story of somebody having
00:34:05.749 --> 00:34:10.809
a catalyst like they get sick or something major happens and then then from
00:34:10.809 --> 00:34:16.649
there is the catalyst of leaving the marriage or changing careers or something
00:34:16.649 --> 00:34:19.289
and it's like their body was trying to tell them something.
00:34:19.949 --> 00:34:24.769
And then they finally heard the message and realized that they were ready to
00:34:24.769 --> 00:34:26.549
make the change that happens all the time.
00:34:27.369 --> 00:34:34.389
So, you know, I try to help people to have sort of like a, almost a meditative
00:34:34.389 --> 00:34:39.969
relationship with themselves and listen to what those answers are.
00:34:40.689 --> 00:34:44.149
Yeah. It's like as simple as, uh,
00:34:44.289 --> 00:34:47.089
I think you and I've had this conversation before like what do
00:34:47.089 --> 00:34:50.589
I need right now do I need a glass of water yeah and
00:34:50.589 --> 00:34:53.649
it can be about it can help us through anything we're
00:34:53.649 --> 00:34:56.789
working on whether it's like how we eat how we
00:34:56.789 --> 00:34:59.829
move what you know but I think once we start actually
00:34:59.829 --> 00:35:04.709
listening like oh I actually need something hearty for warm for lunch today
00:35:04.709 --> 00:35:08.249
you know whatever that is or I actually need to get up and move my body before
00:35:08.249 --> 00:35:13.789
I can do this project at work yeah then if we start actually listening to those
00:35:13.789 --> 00:35:17.109
just very simple What do I need to survive cues?
00:35:17.489 --> 00:35:21.609
I think we start to trust ourselves that when our body's saying,
00:35:21.749 --> 00:35:27.889
oh, I need something different in my marriage, we actually trust it and listen to it.
00:35:29.201 --> 00:35:34.661
Right? Totally. And that's so much of the work that I've learned over the past
00:35:34.661 --> 00:35:36.421
year, like a lot of, you know,
00:35:36.701 --> 00:35:41.721
somatic type work and like, you know, the body is where the subconscious lives,
00:35:41.761 --> 00:35:44.961
like the subconscious lives in the body, we store it all in the body.
00:35:45.061 --> 00:35:49.061
And so I've gotten into the practice when people feel stuck and they don't know,
00:35:49.841 --> 00:35:53.941
you know, asking, well, what if you did know? And also asking,
00:35:54.281 --> 00:35:56.241
what does a yes feel like to you?
00:35:56.381 --> 00:36:01.661
And really letting them close their eyes and feel, what does a yes feel like? What does a no feel like?
00:36:02.001 --> 00:36:06.481
I mean, our bodies know. And I think this idea of listening to the symptoms
00:36:06.481 --> 00:36:12.401
when they're whispers and letting them get to a scream that is debilitating.
00:36:12.761 --> 00:36:17.361
I mean, we bypass a lot of suffering in that way, but that requires a relationship
00:36:17.361 --> 00:36:23.321
between brain and brain. And this is the biggest gap in the world in our heart, right?
00:36:23.541 --> 00:36:26.921
Like that's a long distance to cross for a lot of us.
00:36:27.061 --> 00:36:30.981
So I think there are, like you said, this meditative relationship with the body
00:36:30.981 --> 00:36:34.661
and being connected to it is so vital.
00:36:34.661 --> 00:36:38.241
And I do think it's a missing piece in so much of, you know,
00:36:38.461 --> 00:36:43.141
the health and wellness space and coaching space. So, yeah, I think that's a
00:36:43.141 --> 00:36:44.561
beautiful reminder to people.
00:36:45.681 --> 00:36:48.921
Not separate. mm-hmm yeah there's
00:36:48.921 --> 00:36:52.901
a lot of relationship to ourselves yeah yeah
00:36:52.901 --> 00:36:55.861
and self-compassion and love and you know
00:36:55.861 --> 00:36:58.661
that's really a full circle thing to what we're talking about is
00:36:58.661 --> 00:37:02.201
that self-love and self-compassion and expectations and
00:37:02.201 --> 00:37:05.121
how can we be more actively involved
00:37:05.121 --> 00:37:08.581
so our expectations can be met yeah and
00:37:08.581 --> 00:37:11.921
that's an act of self-love and self-compassion that's right
00:37:11.921 --> 00:37:14.861
to vocalize that absolutely yeah i
00:37:14.861 --> 00:37:19.501
love that beautiful yeah oh
00:37:19.501 --> 00:37:22.701
this was such a fantastic conversation i feel like we
00:37:22.701 --> 00:37:26.381
could go on and on but um i think so too yeah yeah
00:37:26.381 --> 00:37:31.341
susanna thank you so much for joining us today this was so perfect timing you
00:37:31.341 --> 00:37:35.721
know as we're leaning into the darkest time of the year but also what can be
00:37:35.721 --> 00:37:40.881
a really light time so thank you for being with us look forward to doing it
00:37:40.881 --> 00:37:43.041
again soon Oh, I would love that.
00:37:43.181 --> 00:37:47.101
It's so, there's just such a beautiful energy between the three of us that just happens.
00:37:47.401 --> 00:37:52.701
It just like flows out very easily. And I feel super lucky to get to be here with both of you.
00:37:52.801 --> 00:37:55.661
And I hope what we talked about was useful to your listeners.
00:37:56.441 --> 00:37:59.941
Yeah, we hope so too. Thank you so much for your beautiful insights.
00:38:00.181 --> 00:38:03.741
So grateful to have you here. Thank you so much. Thanks, everybody.
00:38:04.281 --> 00:38:07.641
Thanks for listening. Thanks for being here. Bye. Bye.