Why We_re Going Back to Venus_ with David Grinspoon

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We're finally going back to Venus.
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Yes.
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The good news is that we have several Venus missions,
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two American missions, Da Vinci and Veritas, which is an orbiter.
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Da Vinci, which is an entry probe that descends down
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through the atmosphere to the surface.
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How much credence is given to the idea that life
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could be completely thriving within an atmosphere and not require
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a surface at all?
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We have to keep an open mind about that.
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But you're not going to crash.
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We don't use that word. We're going to reach the surface.
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Yeah.
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This is StarTalk. Neil deGrasse Tyson here, your personal astrophysicist.
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And right to my right, Chuck Nice.
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What's up, Neil?
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All right.
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Yeah, man.
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So, one of my favorite subjects today.
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Yeah?
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It's going to be astrobiology.
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Ooh.
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Ooh. But not only that, we're going to take some
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extra twists on it, because we're bringing in the one,
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the only, drumroll please.
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Dr. Funky Spoon!
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Dr. Funky Spoon!
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Oh, David Grinspoon.
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David Grinspoon, welcome back to StarTalk. This is your, like,
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20th time on StarTalk?
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Yeah.
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Something like that. Hey, yeah, it's great to see you guys,
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as always. Great to be here.
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Yeah, yeah. Let me get your resume updated here. A
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professor at Georgetown University. You're based in Washington, D.C.
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Area.
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You're on the board of the Scientific Society for Astrobiology.
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That's a new one for me. Advisory board of the
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SETI Institute. They can't do much better than you on
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that one.
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And.
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on the science team of NASA's upcoming Da Vinci Mission
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to Venus. Now you wrote a book on Venus, but
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was it the book on Venus?
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Well, I like to think it was.
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That was a few years back. What was the title
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of that book?
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Venus Revealed.
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Yeah. Okay.
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Sounds very sexy. I know. Sounds very, very sexy.
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I wrote it right after the last U.S. mission to Venus,
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which is embarrassingly long ago. Except it's amazing that since
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the 1980s, we have not had a U.S.
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Mission to Venus.
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But we're trying to change that now. So maybe I'll
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have to write another one.
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So more fully in this episode, we want to probe
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your thinking of late and the history of space futures.
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Oh.
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That's an interesting thing. It's your children, Monty! Your children!
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You know, in that scene, why were they rushing if
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they have a time machine?
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Yeah. Hurry up! Hurry! We've got to get to a
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point in time that's already passed.
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It seems like time would be the one thing you
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wouldn't have to worry about.
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Exactly. That's a pretty good observation. So this history of
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space futures, that seems like it's intimately intertwined with politics,
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with culture, with funding, with dream states, even with movies
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that might try to shape our visions as for example
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2001 a space odyssey right that got everybody ready for
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the future that actually never came exactly that was.
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The one that really you know when i when i
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was a kid it was 2001 that was the future
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that was going to come to pass i'm still waiting
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for one.
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Future from 2001 space odyssey has come to pass then
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that's artificial intelligence because that was how.
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He was, you know, an AI. And Hal was homicidal.
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And so were the ones from Google. I'm sorry. Are
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they a sponsor? I take that back.
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They're great. So how long have you been at Georgetown?
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Well, I've taught there before.
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And then I. was sort of adjunct, um, but not
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really active because I was doing other things and I
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was at NASA, but I'm returning there to teach, um,
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just starting this upcoming, um, spring semester.
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So it's the title of your course, right?
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Yeah.
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Yeah. Well, it's, I think it's, um, justifying space. And
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then the subtitle is, you know, a history of space futures,
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but it's a fun lens to look at the history
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and the present of space exploration, because it's not quite
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just asking what happened. It's what were people thinking? What
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was the motivating vision? What future did they think they
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were creating? So, you know, you can go all the
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way back to H.G. Wells and Jules Verne and those
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kinds of images and then up to Wernher von Braun and,
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you know, Robert Goddard and, you know, sort of start
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of rocketry and Apollo and, you know, all these like
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inspiring visionaries like Carl Sagan, you know, what kind of
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future where they helping people imagine was going to come.
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To pass through space exploration. And then you can take
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it right up to the present.
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Carl Sagan, who you knew very well. Yeah.
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Big influence.
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Right.
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So when you were a kid, wait, we buried the lead.
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How did you know Carl Sagan?
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Oh man, I grew up with, he and my dad
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were best friends.
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Actually Sagan and my dad, they were both Harvard professors.
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And before Sagan went to Cornell because he was denied
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tenure at Harvard.
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Take that, Harvard.
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You effed up, Harvard. Everybody's been saying that ever since.
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Yeah, so he was kind of in the household when
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I was six years old.
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He was Uncle Carl and kind of just around as
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I was growing up. which was pretty interesting in a
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lot of levels. For one thing, he wasn't famous when
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I first met him, when we first knew him. And
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so seeing that whole phenomenon happen to somebody that you
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knew well was pretty interesting.
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Well, wait, that could have been interpreted another way. He
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wasn't famous until he knew me.
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No, I was not implying a causal relationship there.
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He didn't put the cause and effect in there. And
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so tell me, were you, what were your, because I
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want to hear from Chuck as well, and I got
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my own views here. Were you primarily influenced by the
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dreams of people you knew, by storylines in movies, by
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books you read, or by what you knew the government
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was attempting to do in the space race?
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That, you know, I hate to say it, but all
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of the above, like, you know.
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Like so many space scientists of my generation, I have
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to say that the Apollo moon landings were formative. Like
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I was in fourth grade and we saw the people
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walking on the moon and it was amazing. And then
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I became, probably as a result of that, a space
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and science fiction geek. When you're 11 years old and
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you're reading all this science fiction and watching the first
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actual human ventures into space, You don't necessarily differentiate. It's
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all just like space in the future is cool. So
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and then plus, obviously, I had some people in my
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life that I knew that were involved in space exploration,
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which was a big influence.
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So it was it was kind of all of the above.
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It was just in the air, science.
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Fiction and what was happening in real life and what
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people I knew were involved in. And it was just
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clear to me that. Space was where it was at,
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and that was the future, and that was what I
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wanted to be part of.
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So you've got firsthand DNA for the curriculum of this
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class that you're teaching.
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Wow. Look at that.
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Chuck, how about you?
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My biggest influence, I'm terribly sorry to say, was not
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education or Carl Sagan. It was Star Trek. Don't apologize
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for that. Yeah, when I was a kid, Star Trek came,
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it wasn't even on TV anymore. It was on UHF channels.
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And so when I.
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Wow, grandpa. What was UHF? Well, UHF?
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What?
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Yeah. Do you know what it stands for, UHF?
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Let me think. Ultra high frequency?
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There you go. There you go. And you know what
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VHF stands for? Very high frequency.
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Okay.
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Okay. Get out.
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Somebody dropped the ball there. Yeah.
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OK.
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But my reward for it, I would come home and
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watch cartoons because my parents weren't home. But then I
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knew I had to start my homework by four o'clock
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no matter what, because if I wasn't doing homework or
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if it wasn't mostly done by time I got home.
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You know, there were consequences to be had. So then,
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as a reward for when I finished my homework, Star
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Trek would be on. And because it was not like
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on regular TV, it came on every day.
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And then I found my- Those are called reruns.
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Yes. Okay. And so I watched it every single day.
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And I was like, oh, wow. I guess I reached
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the end because they're coming on over again. Oh, you
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saw reruns.
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Okay.
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Because it was only- It was repeating.
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Yeah.
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I mean, I don't know how many episodes there were
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because there weren't a lot.
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Three seasons.
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Three seasons?
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Yes.
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That's all. It was canceled after three seasons.
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Right.
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So in a year, you could see everything. In less
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than a year, you could see every single episode.
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And in retrospect, canceling Star Trek is like not giving
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tenure to Carl Sagan.
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Yeah, exactly.
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You did what? You did what? Yeah. Anyway, so here,
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let me not bore you with the details. What it
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did for me was they would say things like plasma conduit.
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Light speed, phaser. So vocabulary descended upon you.
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The vocabulary, I was like, what the, I honestly didn't,
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I didn't want, I wanted to understand what they were saying.
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Mm-hmm.
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I didn't, I wanted to be like a crew member
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on the, I didn't want to just sit there and watch.
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I wanted to understand. So I started looking all this
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crap up.
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Really?
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And honestly, that's when I first got like excited about
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science and about space travel and the whole deal, all
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from this stupid TV show.
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Mm-hmm. So Chuck, then can you explain to me like
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how dilithium crystals work?
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But I can't explain to you, but I can tell
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you this. They'll never hold up. They'll never hold up.
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The dilithium crystals will dissolve. So yeah, the dilithium crystals
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was a great, like, I also love the fact that
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they put all that kind of little stuff in there,
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which is absolute nonsense, but they somehow married it to
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some form of science to make it work.
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This is the creativity on the frontier, just to flesh
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out what's going on. And so, have you ever seen
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the periodic table of fictional elements? No. Dilithium is on there.
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Awesome.
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I love it.
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Unobtainium.
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Unobtainium? Unobtainium is there. I'm sure vibranium is on there.
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Vibranium is definitely there. It's a very cool list.
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Oh, I gotta look that up.
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How did you guys feel about the portrayal of aliens?
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In Star Trek? The astrobiology of this, yeah.
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There's obviously a range.
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And Star Trek is, I mean, in a lot of ways,
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Star Trek holds up really well. It was very sophisticated,
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high-quality entertainment for some of the reasons Chuck just mentioned.
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And it's amazing how much it's still referred to. Even
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amongst professional astrobiologists, we get into conversations, well, could you
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have something like a Class M planet? But then obviously,
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they're devices which are just devices which have no correlation
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to any science.
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And I have to interject there. they classified planets better
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than we ever did even today. They classified them by
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whether they could sustain life, by whether they were rocky, gaseous.
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To us, a gaseous, a rocky, or one that sustained life,
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they're all just planets. So if you just say I
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discovered a planet, you have to play 20 questions to
254
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know what kind of planet was discovered. So this was
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my sympathy for the Pluto folk out there. because to
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remove it from the ranks of planets, when what should
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have happened is that we should have nuanced the word
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planet with many more adjectives, descriptive adjectives before. Gas planet,
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rocky planet, dwarf planet. You just go down the list.
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Right.
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You know, we're still in the infancy of our understanding
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of planets. And, you know, they're from the 23rd century,
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so it makes sense they would know more. But, you know,
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I mean, at the time of Star Trek, of course,
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we hadn't even discovered any exoplanets. And so we had
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no real diversity to work with. Now we at least
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are starting to understand planets.
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It would be another 30 years before we would discover
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our first exoplanet.
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Wow.
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So we're starting to understand the diversity of planets, but
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we're still pretty naive. But as far as aliens, The
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problem with Star Trek aliens is they're generally humans with prostheses.
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Right.
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And that makes sense for the economics of producing a
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TV show. But they don't generally look like what we
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would picture aliens to look like. Of course, we have
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no idea what aliens look like. But we imagine probably
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they don't look just like humans because of the randomness
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of evolution.
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So I have a book behind me. which is called
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Visions of Spaceflight, which is a modern book, but goes
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back 40, 50, even 60 years to show how people
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were dreaming this up. Is any of that infused in
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your class? Just where we got it all wrong?
286
00:12:57.940 --> 00:13:00.460
Yeah, no, a lot of that is in there. And,
287
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you know, there's so much fun material to work with.
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There's like, you know, those famous Collier's articles, Collier's Magazine
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that Von Braun did with Walt Disney.
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And Chesley Bonestell, you know, there's so many.
291
00:13:12.629 --> 00:13:14.649
So remind us who all these people are. So Wernher
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von Braun, give us a three sentence bio.
293
00:13:17.129 --> 00:13:18.710
I just mixed two different things up.
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But so Wernher von Braun, of course, was the former
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Nazi rocket scientist who invented basically the V2 in World
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War II and then came over and with a bunch
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of other German scientists and was very instrumental in designing
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the Saturn V and getting us to the moon, the
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Apollo program.
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Well, he said to you, he's just, they came over? No,
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we grabbed them.
302
00:13:40.019 --> 00:13:42.820
Yeah, but I didn't know how much we should go
303
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into Operation Paperclip.
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Yes, that's what that was. Yes, because we didn't want
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them going to the Russians afterwards. Of course. The Russians
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and Americans divided Germany. Right, right, okay. So we bring them,
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I'm intrigued that we bring them and put them in Huntsville, Alabama.
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which is like- Makes sense. That's a place where you
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would put some Nazis.
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Stop.
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Alabama is the place. If you got to relocate some Nazis,
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I'm pretty sure you wouldn't do a bad thing by
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putting them in Alabama.
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Don't put them in Detroit.
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You damn sure better not put them in Chicago. What
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00:14:18.950 --> 00:14:22.210
is this? So many Schwarzers.
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Schwarzers. The space program would have never happened. So anyhow,
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00:14:32.200 --> 00:14:35.600
so he goes to Alabama and that's Huntsville, Alabama, where
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he births our presence in space. Because you didn't say this,
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but I have to add, the V2 rocket was the
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first rocket to leave our atmosphere. And everybody knew that
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if there was any future in space, it's going to
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be through the technologies that enabled that rocket. Okay. So
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you got more on Von Braun?
325
00:14:56.500 --> 00:14:59.860
Well, he was also, uh, you know, a proselytizer for
326
00:14:59.919 --> 00:15:03.110
space and a major popularizer. And so he got together
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with Walt Disney and they did these, these kind of
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propaganda films, but all about the great future of man
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in space. Of And then they also did this series
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of articles with Chester Lee Bonestell, who was almost like
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the original space artist, the guy that did the first
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very scientifically accurate and careful space art. And he and
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Von Braun teamed up for the series of articles in
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Collier's magazine, I guess in the late 40s.
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Or early 50s.
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No, no, in the 50s, early 50s.
337
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In the 50s, thank you.
338
00:15:39.100 --> 00:15:42.389
They're really fun to look at because it's all– you know,
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our future in space. And, you know, very imaginative and
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very evocative. And I think it really did help, you know,
341
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along with other efforts to kind of prepare the populace
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for thinking about space as this aperture to this wonderful future.
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And you know where the first of those meetings were?
344
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No.
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At the Hayden Planetarium.
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Get out!
347
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Oh, yeah.
348
00:16:01.950 --> 00:16:02.669
Wow.
349
00:16:02.850 --> 00:16:03.370
Yeah.
350
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Impressive.
351
00:16:04.230 --> 00:16:08.049
Yeah. And so others would happen sort of offline, but
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00:16:08.210 --> 00:16:11.590
the original ones, but it was not only the Chesley Bonnestell,
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00:16:11.610 --> 00:16:14.429
they also had journalists there and other people who could
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sort of help spread the love. And like you said,
355
00:16:18.169 --> 00:16:20.070
it was a little bit of propaganda, getting people ready
356
00:16:20.409 --> 00:16:21.490
for the future in space.
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I love it. We need more of that today. I'm serious.
358
00:16:25.289 --> 00:16:28.200
It's like one of my biggest complaints about science today
359
00:16:28.240 --> 00:16:30.460
is that we don't propagandize.
360
00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:32.840
We need better advertising. We need better advertising. That's what
361
00:16:32.860 --> 00:16:35.019
you're saying. That's what you want there. And we have
362
00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:40.080
an installment of StarTalk where we toured Paul Allen's collection
363
00:16:40.100 --> 00:16:44.269
of of space art, which was heavily represented by Chesley
364
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Bonstall art.
365
00:16:45.169 --> 00:16:45.549
Nice.
366
00:16:45.690 --> 00:16:48.940
And so we, we went to the Christie's they'd let us,
367
00:16:48.950 --> 00:16:51.029
they gave us access to the back of house.
368
00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:51.509
Wow.
369
00:16:51.889 --> 00:16:54.600
And so, yeah, find that in our archives. Uh, that
370
00:16:54.620 --> 00:16:56.120
was a fun little tour we took.
371
00:16:56.299 --> 00:16:56.679
Oh, cool.
372
00:16:57.039 --> 00:17:00.179
So tell me, I don't remember them showing aliens in
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any of those illustrations. So it was just, we as explorers.
374
00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:04.960
Yeah, no, that's right.
375
00:17:05.299 --> 00:17:09.950
Um, that there was nothing, I don't remember anything. in
376
00:17:10.019 --> 00:17:15.619
those sort of Disney films he did or the Collier's Magazine,
377
00:17:15.660 --> 00:17:19.079
that kind of stuff about extraterrestrial life. It was more
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just like humans are going to go to space and
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00:17:21.519 --> 00:17:24.619
there'll be new places to live and new resources and
380
00:17:24.660 --> 00:17:28.059
new places to explore. And he talked about the national
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00:17:28.099 --> 00:17:32.460
security implications. Of course, America has to dominate this space
382
00:17:32.500 --> 00:17:35.019
because we can put nuclear weapons up there and make
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sure that the world is is peaceful and American.
384
00:17:37.630 --> 00:17:39.150
You know, it was kind of infused like that.
385
00:17:39.170 --> 00:17:42.849
Because the harder I pull the bow, the safer I feel.
386
00:17:42.869 --> 00:17:48.839
Nice. As we aim arrows to each other.
387
00:17:48.940 --> 00:17:52.599
The harder we each pull, the safer we feel. Yeah.
388
00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:55.279
So, of course, there is speculation about alien life going
389
00:17:55.319 --> 00:17:58.349
back and, you know, some of the other future literature
390
00:17:58.509 --> 00:18:02.210
of the past, but not in this sort of Apollo
391
00:18:02.289 --> 00:18:03.910
propaganda stuff that we're talking about.
392
00:18:04.009 --> 00:18:05.470
So let's go back in time 120 years or so,
393
00:18:05.490 --> 00:18:09.430
or even a little earlier. And we get to Jules
394
00:18:09.470 --> 00:18:12.410
Verne from Earth to the Moon. And he gives how
395
00:18:12.450 --> 00:18:15.369
many hours it takes, and he comes pretty close. Yeah,
396
00:18:15.390 --> 00:18:17.029
I don't know how he figured that out. Earth to
397
00:18:17.049 --> 00:18:19.349
the Moon in like 96 hours or something, which is
398
00:18:19.369 --> 00:18:21.990
a little longer than it actually takes, but it's close enough.
399
00:18:22.009 --> 00:18:26.099
I mean, really good, yeah. What intrigues me is that
400
00:18:26.119 --> 00:18:28.799
if you go far enough back, before we knew anything
401
00:18:28.859 --> 00:18:33.259
about the Moon or anywhere, everybody presumed that since Earth
402
00:18:33.339 --> 00:18:36.140
is a planet and we have life, that every other
403
00:18:36.180 --> 00:18:39.200
planet would have life. And so from Earth to the moon,
404
00:18:39.740 --> 00:18:43.670
portrayed moon beings. And no one is wondering, well, can
405
00:18:43.690 --> 00:18:47.170
they breathe the non-air? No one is asking that question.
406
00:18:47.710 --> 00:18:51.109
And so just the fact that we are a planet
407
00:18:51.170 --> 00:18:55.230
and have life opened the floodgates for imagining every other
408
00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:58.220
planet to have life. When did planetary scientists discover that
409
00:18:58.299 --> 00:19:00.460
Venus has a runaway greenhouse and you're not going to
410
00:19:00.519 --> 00:19:02.019
imagine life thriving there?
411
00:19:02.440 --> 00:19:03.660
Yeah, it's pretty recent, really.
412
00:19:03.700 --> 00:19:06.940
It wasn't until people started to wonder in the 50s
413
00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:11.339
because they saw this excess microwave radiation they couldn't explain,
414
00:19:11.380 --> 00:19:12.980
and they thought, well, could that be from a super
415
00:19:13.019 --> 00:19:17.720
hot surface? Basically, the advent of radio astronomy after World
416
00:19:17.740 --> 00:19:20.980
War II, that made that possible. But it wasn't until
417
00:19:21.019 --> 00:19:26.220
the first mission to Venus, which was Mariner 2 in 1961,
418
00:19:26.220 --> 00:19:30.960
that it was demonstrated that Venus was hot and definitely unearth-like. So,
419
00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:34.980
Throughout the whole time of really the 20th century up
420
00:19:35.039 --> 00:19:37.240
until the space age, there was a lot of speculation
421
00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:40.589
that Venus was probably pretty Earth-like. A lot of scientists
422
00:19:40.609 --> 00:19:42.390
thought that and could have life.
423
00:19:42.450 --> 00:19:44.710
Well, it's approximately the same size as Earth. It has
424
00:19:44.730 --> 00:19:47.569
the same surface gravity. A little closer to the sun.
425
00:19:47.609 --> 00:19:47.890
Sorry.
426
00:19:47.910 --> 00:19:50.500
So it's a little hotter. That wouldn't hurt anybody. Yeah.
427
00:19:51.019 --> 00:19:53.240
And it's completely covered with clouds. And so they deduced
428
00:19:53.299 --> 00:19:55.880
that correctly. They said, oh, it's covered with clouds. And well,
429
00:19:55.900 --> 00:19:56.829
what are clouds made out of?
430
00:19:56.839 --> 00:19:57.440
Water.
431
00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:00.750
So therefore, it's probably a swamp planet. That was what
432
00:20:00.769 --> 00:20:01.789
people thought it was.
433
00:20:02.849 --> 00:20:07.130
Yeah, now what about Mars? Wasn't there a point where
434
00:20:07.170 --> 00:20:11.329
they thought Mars was a thriving society? The canals, you're
435
00:20:11.349 --> 00:20:14.079
talking about the Mars canals. And they thought, well, they
436
00:20:14.140 --> 00:20:19.480
had to be made by someone. Because nature makes channels.
437
00:20:20.700 --> 00:20:23.900
Humans make canals, yes. That makes sense.
438
00:20:24.019 --> 00:20:27.809
Yeah, so they thought they saw all these linear features,
439
00:20:27.910 --> 00:20:30.150
which couldn't possibly be natural because there are all these
440
00:20:30.170 --> 00:20:34.460
straight lines going across Mars. Of course, Percival Lowell popularized this,
441
00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:37.549
and he was a very persuasive guy around the turn
442
00:20:37.569 --> 00:20:41.690
of the beginning of the 20th century. And he was
443
00:20:41.730 --> 00:20:43.410
so persuasive that a lot of other people saw the
444
00:20:43.430 --> 00:20:46.130
canals too. You know, they're like, oh, wow. And it
445
00:20:46.170 --> 00:20:50.069
took years to realize that the canals weren't there, basically
446
00:20:50.230 --> 00:20:54.750
from close appearances of Mars and better telescopes and cameras.
447
00:20:55.150 --> 00:20:58.099
But The interesting thing is that even after the canals
448
00:20:58.180 --> 00:21:01.640
went away, the idea of life on Mars sort of
449
00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:04.720
scientifically supported did not go away, and people thought there
450
00:21:04.759 --> 00:21:08.920
was evidence for vegetation. You know, Mars' surface changes with
451
00:21:09.380 --> 00:21:12.990
basically what we now know are seasonal patterns of windblown dust.
452
00:21:13.329 --> 00:21:15.750
But you see these changes in color and brightness, and
453
00:21:15.789 --> 00:21:19.130
they thought, oh, that's seasonal vegetation patterns. And then even
454
00:21:19.190 --> 00:21:24.650
in the late 1950s, there was an observation study of
455
00:21:25.309 --> 00:21:28.009
chlorophyll in the atmosphere of Mars that was published in
456
00:21:28.049 --> 00:21:31.630
Science Magazine. Turned out to be wrong, but there's so
457
00:21:31.670 --> 00:21:34.950
much wishful thinking that people would say, aha, there is
458
00:21:35.009 --> 00:21:38.200
plant life on Mars. And again, it was pretty recent.
459
00:21:38.220 --> 00:21:40.980
It was really once we started going there with spacecraft
460
00:21:41.380 --> 00:21:44.720
that these visions kind of vanished in favor of the
461
00:21:44.759 --> 00:21:48.599
more realistic, very alien conditions that you find on these planets.
462
00:21:48.660 --> 00:21:50.339
And just to be clear, the older you get, the
463
00:21:51.670 --> 00:21:53.210
More recent than 1960s.
464
00:21:53.450 --> 00:21:54.109
Oh, yeah.
465
00:21:54.289 --> 00:21:58.230
I'm just saying, was 60 years ago recent to you?
466
00:21:58.329 --> 00:22:00.880
Because 60 years before that was the year 1900. Oh,
467
00:22:01.059 --> 00:22:01.779
my God.
468
00:22:02.299 --> 00:22:06.160
But it was so much believed so widely that that's
469
00:22:06.279 --> 00:22:10.980
how Orson Welles was able to pull off the radio
470
00:22:11.019 --> 00:22:13.849
broadcast that put everybody into a panic.
471
00:22:13.900 --> 00:22:17.049
Wait, wait. So, no, but it's before that because it
472
00:22:17.210 --> 00:22:22.500
was Percival Lowell's published work. on Mars and its canals
473
00:22:23.079 --> 00:22:25.960
that spawned War of the World to be written in
474
00:22:25.980 --> 00:22:28.759
the first place. War of the World was written right
475
00:22:28.859 --> 00:22:34.089
after that got published. Within five years, H.G. Wells wrote
476
00:22:34.130 --> 00:22:37.250
War of the World because canals on Mars, that's headlines.
477
00:22:37.869 --> 00:22:41.569
In 1895, that's headlines. And so H.G. Wells writes it
478
00:22:41.630 --> 00:22:44.490
and these are like evil aliens from Mars sucking our
479
00:22:44.519 --> 00:22:47.880
brains out. Then we still have 30 years whenever the
480
00:22:48.359 --> 00:22:52.730
radio broadcast which is based on H.G. Wells' story. People
481
00:22:52.769 --> 00:22:57.410
confuse H.G. Wells and Orson Welles. No relationship. Orson did
482
00:22:57.430 --> 00:23:00.220
the radio broadcast. The radio broadcast, and he did it
483
00:23:00.279 --> 00:23:04.299
on Halloween Eve, and not Halloween, though, but the eve
484
00:23:04.319 --> 00:23:04.720
of Halloween.
485
00:23:04.740 --> 00:23:05.460
Right, Mischief Night.
486
00:23:06.220 --> 00:23:08.049
Say again? Mischief Night. Oh, is that right?
487
00:23:08.069 --> 00:23:08.440
Makes sense.
488
00:23:08.549 --> 00:23:12.650
Okay, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so everyone's primed for this,
489
00:23:13.069 --> 00:23:14.849
and I think that might have been the first evil
490
00:23:15.029 --> 00:23:15.690
alien trope.
491
00:23:16.339 --> 00:23:18.329
Yeah, well, you know, the other thing that H.G.
492
00:23:18.349 --> 00:23:22.809
Wells was really influenced by, definitely Percival Lowell, but also
493
00:23:23.089 --> 00:23:27.710
the recent stories he had heard about the Tasmanians basically
494
00:23:27.750 --> 00:23:31.490
being wiped out by Europeans from Australia.
495
00:23:31.589 --> 00:23:32.670
He mentions that in his book.
496
00:23:33.049 --> 00:23:36.990
Oh, yeah. What had happened when a, quote, you know,
497
00:23:37.029 --> 00:23:42.380
technologically superior civilization encounters a, quote, more primitive civilization, and
498
00:23:42.460 --> 00:23:45.799
it's not good for the natives.
499
00:23:45.819 --> 00:23:46.579
You know?
500
00:23:47.259 --> 00:23:50.599
And so that also led to this trope of the
501
00:23:50.839 --> 00:23:55.140
evil invading superior aliens that you don't stand a chance against.
502
00:23:55.400 --> 00:23:58.049
Yeah, but no, you missed a point there. Very true.
503
00:23:58.369 --> 00:24:02.710
But there's a nuance, which is in his book, he's
504
00:24:02.750 --> 00:24:08.109
trying to justify why these Martians wanted to kill us all.
505
00:24:09.109 --> 00:24:13.690
And he said, should you be surprised by this, given
506
00:24:13.930 --> 00:24:18.970
that we exhibit that same behavior to ourselves? Wow. That's
507
00:24:19.029 --> 00:24:22.289
a great point. You got no argument. How are you
508
00:24:22.309 --> 00:24:23.829
gonna come out of that? Exactly. You got no way
509
00:24:23.869 --> 00:24:25.890
to come out of that argument. So David, I didn't
510
00:24:25.970 --> 00:24:28.670
know that others also saw the canals, but if they did,
511
00:24:29.029 --> 00:24:32.069
that's a form of a mass delusion because Percival Lowell
512
00:24:32.089 --> 00:24:34.450
has like the best telescope and he's rich and he's
513
00:24:34.490 --> 00:24:37.269
on a mountain top. He's got great observing conditions. He
514
00:24:37.329 --> 00:24:39.990
sees it. You don't wanna not see it because how
515
00:24:40.029 --> 00:24:41.589
could you not, if you don't see it with your
516
00:24:41.690 --> 00:24:45.170
crappier telescope, you're not in the books, right? So if
517
00:24:45.210 --> 00:24:48.380
they really are there and you did see it, second,
518
00:24:48.660 --> 00:24:50.380
you still get talked about, right?
519
00:24:50.720 --> 00:24:51.039
So.
520
00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:52.519
Yeah, no, it's, it's funny.
521
00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:55.339
There is a literature of other people mapping the canals
522
00:24:55.400 --> 00:24:58.349
and saying, well, Lowell's position for this one is just
523
00:24:58.400 --> 00:24:59.029
a little bit off.
524
00:24:59.089 --> 00:25:00.680
It's really over here.
525
00:25:01.369 --> 00:25:04.869
And it's a complete delusion. And this is because nobody
526
00:25:04.890 --> 00:25:07.690
has photography yet. Right. There's not a, let's look at
527
00:25:07.730 --> 00:25:08.329
the photograph.
528
00:25:08.450 --> 00:25:08.730
Right.
529
00:25:08.849 --> 00:25:12.289
It's everyone's eyewitness testimony of what they think they see. Wow.
530
00:25:12.609 --> 00:25:12.789
Yeah.
531
00:25:12.809 --> 00:25:15.930
So this is an evidence of the susceptibility of even
532
00:25:15.990 --> 00:25:19.259
scientists to to the power of suggestion, the power of
533
00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:22.279
your own bias. And Leonardo.
534
00:25:23.019 --> 00:25:23.259
Yes.
535
00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:28.509
Once said. Go ahead. The greatest deception men suffer is
536
00:25:28.549 --> 00:25:30.720
of their own opinions. Yes.
537
00:25:31.059 --> 00:25:34.079
Ooh. That's, that's gosh. He knew this.
538
00:25:34.279 --> 00:25:34.460
Yeah.
539
00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:35.799
Well, that's why he was so brilliant.
540
00:25:35.819 --> 00:25:36.019
Yeah.
541
00:25:36.220 --> 00:25:38.900
It was like, I will not even fall prey to me.
542
00:25:39.259 --> 00:25:40.859
Yeah. That's beautiful.
543
00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:41.200
Yes.
544
00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:42.799
Give me, give me, give me somebody.
545
00:25:42.819 --> 00:25:43.920
Well, that was his opinion.
546
00:25:47.099 --> 00:25:53.130
So David, that's a perfect segue to this Da Vinci mission.
547
00:25:54.150 --> 00:25:56.269
Please catch us up on what's going on. We're finally
548
00:25:56.309 --> 00:25:58.269
going back to Venus and, Yes, yes.
549
00:25:58.349 --> 00:26:01.890
It's been a long journey already. We haven't even left
550
00:26:01.910 --> 00:26:05.039
the ground. But for those of us who've been advocating
551
00:26:05.059 --> 00:26:08.440
and agitating for new Venus missions, and the good news
552
00:26:08.500 --> 00:26:13.440
is that we have several Venus missions, two American missions,
553
00:26:13.460 --> 00:26:17.500
Da Vinci and Veritas, which is an orbiter, which very
554
00:26:17.539 --> 00:26:20.400
much complements Da Vinci, which is an entry probe that
555
00:26:20.460 --> 00:26:23.279
descends down through the atmosphere to the surface. And then
556
00:26:23.299 --> 00:26:27.470
there's also a European... mission and an Indian space agency
557
00:26:27.589 --> 00:26:30.519
potential mission. So a lot of agencies are getting into
558
00:26:30.539 --> 00:26:33.099
the game now. But the one I'm most excited about,
559
00:26:33.140 --> 00:26:36.839
because I'm on the team and very involved with, is
560
00:26:36.900 --> 00:26:41.279
this Da Vinci mission, which, if all goes well, will
561
00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:46.789
launch in the 2031 time frame now. As you probably
562
00:26:46.829 --> 00:26:49.829
have heard, NASA's had a little bit of turmoil with
563
00:26:49.849 --> 00:26:50.430
the budget.
564
00:26:50.509 --> 00:26:51.309
You think?
565
00:26:51.829 --> 00:26:52.609
A little bit, yeah.
566
00:26:52.630 --> 00:26:54.089
Didn't you used to have a job with NASA?
567
00:26:54.769 --> 00:26:58.579
Oh yes, until fairly recently, I was the senior scientist
568
00:26:58.599 --> 00:27:00.640
for astrobiology strategy at NASA.
569
00:27:00.759 --> 00:27:01.420
Yeah, okay.
570
00:27:01.619 --> 00:27:04.259
Totally useless. Yeah.
571
00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:05.410
What a hoax.
572
00:27:05.650 --> 00:27:09.410
A terrible hoax. I'll tell you what we need.
573
00:27:09.569 --> 00:27:11.269
If I still had that job, I wouldn't be able
574
00:27:11.289 --> 00:27:13.309
to talk to you about some of the things I
575
00:27:13.329 --> 00:27:14.430
can talk to you about now.
576
00:27:14.680 --> 00:27:19.319
Should have kept them on. I like loyalty and science.
577
00:27:19.779 --> 00:27:23.940
But yeah, I'm still very fond of and close to
578
00:27:24.009 --> 00:27:26.450
NASA and working with NASA on a lot of projects.
579
00:27:26.509 --> 00:27:28.910
I no longer am a NASA employee at the moment,
580
00:27:29.349 --> 00:27:32.069
but DaVinci is very much a NASA mission, which is
581
00:27:32.130 --> 00:27:38.569
still Moving forward and being built, there's some question, as
582
00:27:38.609 --> 00:27:40.890
with a lot of projects right now, about the future
583
00:27:41.210 --> 00:27:46.299
schedule and viability. But right now, nobody's told us it's
584
00:27:46.339 --> 00:27:50.319
not happening. And we're pretty optimistic about, we know that
585
00:27:50.460 --> 00:27:54.819
Congress is very supportive of maintaining this mission.
586
00:27:55.099 --> 00:27:55.740
A lot of it's built.
587
00:27:56.140 --> 00:27:58.990
We have an entry sphere and some of the instruments
588
00:27:59.390 --> 00:28:02.650
are already built. And, you know, it's a very challenging
589
00:28:02.710 --> 00:28:08.880
engineering problem to drop something into that intense environment of
590
00:28:08.920 --> 00:28:11.859
the Venus atmosphere and have it survive to the surface.
591
00:28:12.039 --> 00:28:13.000
Quantify intense.
592
00:28:13.740 --> 00:28:19.329
OK, well, if in the upper clouds where the mission starts,
593
00:28:19.509 --> 00:28:22.140
we drop it into the atmosphere on a parachute. And
594
00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:24.670
in the upper clouds where it starts to operate, it's
595
00:28:24.750 --> 00:28:27.269
actually more or less the same temperature and pressure as
596
00:28:27.329 --> 00:28:30.130
the surface of Earth, like in the room you're sitting
597
00:28:30.170 --> 00:28:32.630
in now. That's sort of the middle upper clouds of Venus.
598
00:28:32.930 --> 00:28:36.279
But as you drop down, it gets hotter and hotter
599
00:28:36.599 --> 00:28:39.000
to the point and higher and higher pressure to the
600
00:28:39.039 --> 00:28:42.619
point where when you reach the surface, it's 900 degrees
601
00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:46.190
hotter than the hottest self-cleaning temperature on your oven.
602
00:28:46.309 --> 00:28:46.630
Fahrenheit.
603
00:28:46.650 --> 00:28:50.910
Fahrenheit. And it's almost 100 times the surface pressure of Earth.
604
00:28:50.930 --> 00:28:54.220
So crushing pressure, searing temperature. And by the way, those
605
00:28:54.279 --> 00:28:58.900
clouds you drop through are made out of concentrated sulfuric acid,
606
00:28:58.940 --> 00:29:00.900
like battery acid. So you have to be able to
607
00:29:00.940 --> 00:29:03.920
withstand all these crazy environmental factors.
608
00:29:04.359 --> 00:29:05.200
And we know how to do it.
609
00:29:05.589 --> 00:29:08.890
You know, this thing is well engineered, but it has
610
00:29:08.910 --> 00:29:10.589
to be done very carefully and you have to use
611
00:29:10.609 --> 00:29:13.029
some expensive materials.
612
00:29:13.569 --> 00:29:16.960
So are the data you're collecting, is it atmospheric data
613
00:29:16.980 --> 00:29:18.200
or are you going to do stuff when you get
614
00:29:18.220 --> 00:29:20.440
to the surface as well? Both.
615
00:29:20.680 --> 00:29:23.380
A lot of the important part of this mission is
616
00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:26.960
involving measurements of the atmosphere that have never been made before.
617
00:29:27.380 --> 00:29:29.569
Because again, we haven't been able to operate that much
618
00:29:29.730 --> 00:29:32.150
in the Venus atmosphere because it's so forbidding. So we've
619
00:29:32.210 --> 00:29:36.880
never had modern instrumentation, never had 21st century instruments that
620
00:29:36.920 --> 00:29:39.250
can really tell us exactly what those gases are made
621
00:29:39.309 --> 00:29:43.549
out of, exactly what the isotopes are of hydrogen and
622
00:29:43.890 --> 00:29:46.710
what the rare gases are, all these things that really
623
00:29:46.730 --> 00:29:49.059
can be diagnostic of the history of the planet. We've
624
00:29:49.140 --> 00:29:53.000
never measured them well and the radiation going down, but
625
00:29:53.019 --> 00:29:55.880
we're also going to do really cool things with the surface.
626
00:29:56.400 --> 00:29:59.319
We have an imaging system where we do the first
627
00:29:59.440 --> 00:30:03.990
ever descent photography, like really high resolution stereo descent photography
628
00:30:04.609 --> 00:30:07.549
of this very mountainous area where we're going to land.
629
00:30:07.710 --> 00:30:10.740
It's always cool when you can see the ground come
630
00:30:10.779 --> 00:30:11.619
closer and closer.
631
00:30:12.059 --> 00:30:12.279
Yeah.
632
00:30:12.500 --> 00:30:16.460
You've seen those famous images from like the Ranger program
633
00:30:16.480 --> 00:30:18.450
of the moon, right? Where they They get closer and
634
00:30:18.490 --> 00:30:20.910
closer and closer, and then the thing crashes. We're going
635
00:30:20.930 --> 00:30:24.849
to do that for Venus, except, again, with 21st century cameras.
636
00:30:25.390 --> 00:30:27.589
And it's never been seen before. And this is going
637
00:30:27.609 --> 00:30:32.640
to be a very dramatic, mountainous region with really cool
638
00:30:32.859 --> 00:30:37.480
and revealing topography, not just in the visual wavelengths, but
639
00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:38.740
also in the infrared.
640
00:30:38.779 --> 00:30:41.099
So we'll be able to tell what the minerals are there.
641
00:30:41.119 --> 00:30:42.059
But you're not going to crash.
642
00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:43.940
Well, we are going to crash.
643
00:30:44.039 --> 00:30:44.440
You are?
644
00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:45.680
Oh, wow. OK.
645
00:30:45.700 --> 00:30:46.880
Yes. You are going to crash.
646
00:30:46.900 --> 00:30:53.430
Yes. Well, we're going to reach the surface. We don't say,
647
00:30:53.450 --> 00:30:54.430
we don't use that word.
648
00:30:54.450 --> 00:30:56.369
We don't use the term crash, yeah.
649
00:30:56.670 --> 00:31:00.329
We use euphemisms, but in fact, we're not designed to
650
00:31:00.490 --> 00:31:04.480
operate on the surface, although it's possible. In other words,
651
00:31:04.519 --> 00:31:06.980
the mission will be considered a success if we reach
652
00:31:07.019 --> 00:31:10.240
the surface, but we could survive for a while. It's
653
00:31:10.279 --> 00:31:13.220
very similar to, you remember the Huygens probe on Titan?
654
00:31:13.259 --> 00:31:13.839
Yeah, yeah.
655
00:31:14.380 --> 00:31:16.410
It was only designed, if it reached the surface, it
656
00:31:16.450 --> 00:31:18.809
would have been considered a success, but it lasted for
657
00:31:18.849 --> 00:31:21.670
another 45 minutes on the surface and did some really
658
00:31:21.710 --> 00:31:24.109
cool stuff. So we have the opportunity to do that,
659
00:31:24.410 --> 00:31:26.549
but if we actually make it to the surface, then
660
00:31:26.589 --> 00:31:28.779
we've satisfied our- I don't understand something.
661
00:31:29.420 --> 00:31:29.579
Yeah.
662
00:31:30.140 --> 00:31:33.579
Venus has gravity. You drop it into the atmosphere. It's
663
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:35.839
going to reach the surface. What do you mean if
664
00:31:35.900 --> 00:31:36.779
it reaches the surface?
665
00:31:36.839 --> 00:31:38.900
Oh, sorry. If it's functioning.
666
00:31:38.920 --> 00:31:41.420
Oh, okay. Thank you.
667
00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:42.529
If it's talking to us.
668
00:31:42.569 --> 00:31:43.480
Yeah. Got it.
669
00:31:43.589 --> 00:31:43.950
Okay.
670
00:31:44.329 --> 00:31:46.630
Well, if you need more money to be put in
671
00:31:46.650 --> 00:31:50.180
the budget, all you have to do is name the project.
672
00:31:50.599 --> 00:31:57.119
The Donald J. Trump Venusian Ballroom Construction Project. There you go.
673
00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:04.430
Yeah, but solid gold does not survive at those temperatures.
674
00:32:04.450 --> 00:32:07.849
Just one, if I add a geopolitical comment here. You
675
00:32:07.890 --> 00:32:12.150
mentioned that India also has Venus on its sights. Israel,
676
00:32:12.210 --> 00:32:13.490
so Indian space.
677
00:32:14.759 --> 00:32:15.380
Research organization.
678
00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:19.720
Research organization, ISRO. And the United States does not want
679
00:32:19.740 --> 00:32:22.900
to be left out of where people are going in
680
00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:25.980
the solar system. Absolutely. So it's easier for us to
681
00:32:26.049 --> 00:32:29.230
declare we want to go somewhere if other countries are
682
00:32:29.309 --> 00:32:31.890
going to. So it's the space race all over again.
683
00:32:31.950 --> 00:32:33.190
It's always about that.
684
00:32:33.289 --> 00:32:33.450
Right.
685
00:32:33.529 --> 00:32:36.809
It's always about that. So I wouldn't put it past
686
00:32:36.970 --> 00:32:42.140
our motivations to realize that the list of other interested
687
00:32:42.200 --> 00:32:45.799
parties is, added a little flame under our rear end
688
00:32:46.380 --> 00:32:47.019
to try to go.
689
00:32:47.059 --> 00:32:47.259
Yeah.
690
00:32:47.359 --> 00:32:50.759
And I wouldn't put it past me and my colleagues
691
00:32:50.799 --> 00:32:53.359
to remind our representatives that like, oh, by the way,
692
00:32:53.420 --> 00:32:56.839
our competitors are doing this, so we better not mess
693
00:32:56.859 --> 00:32:57.500
with our budgets.
694
00:32:57.759 --> 00:32:58.240
Right, right.
695
00:32:58.400 --> 00:33:02.440
And on a non-geopolitical note, just a political note, people
696
00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:05.900
could stop voting for representatives who want to give tax
697
00:33:05.960 --> 00:33:09.849
cuts to billionaires instead of funding the stuff that will
698
00:33:10.349 --> 00:33:13.650
advance us as not only a nation, but as a species.
699
00:33:13.710 --> 00:33:17.930
I mean, that's just a thought. You can just hang
700
00:33:18.019 --> 00:33:19.640
on to that thought if you want.
701
00:33:20.519 --> 00:33:23.740
This has been a public service announcement.
702
00:33:24.420 --> 00:33:26.480
Comedians against billionaires.
703
00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:30.140
What can I say? You know, you will never meet
704
00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:32.019
a comedian billionaire, that is for sure.
705
00:33:32.500 --> 00:33:36.839
So we remember from a few years back the assertion
706
00:33:37.099 --> 00:33:42.730
that There were what was the molecule in Venus's atmosphere
707
00:33:43.130 --> 00:33:47.259
that may be evidence for life thriving within the atmosphere.
708
00:33:48.119 --> 00:33:50.859
Will you be, it was phosphenes, I think they were.
709
00:33:51.259 --> 00:33:53.279
And we had you on to talk about that result.
710
00:33:53.440 --> 00:33:55.819
So dig that out of our archives, those of you
711
00:33:55.859 --> 00:34:00.160
who are archived dumpster divers. But how much credence is
712
00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:03.470
given to the idea that life could be completely thriving
713
00:34:03.869 --> 00:34:05.799
within an atmosphere and not require a surface at all?
714
00:34:06.839 --> 00:34:10.719
Well, there's a range of opinions about that. And, you know,
715
00:34:10.860 --> 00:34:13.420
I've been a proponent of that. We have to keep
716
00:34:13.639 --> 00:34:17.469
keep an open mind about that. You know, the there
717
00:34:17.510 --> 00:34:19.550
will there are people who will point out, you know,
718
00:34:19.590 --> 00:34:23.510
one of my colleagues, Chris McKay. at NASA Ames Research Center,
719
00:34:23.650 --> 00:34:24.800
a great astrobiologist.
720
00:34:24.820 --> 00:34:25.480
We love Chris McKay.
721
00:34:26.039 --> 00:34:28.300
Yeah, and Chris doesn't agree with me about the prospects
722
00:34:28.360 --> 00:34:30.219
for life on Venus. And what he says is like,
723
00:34:30.699 --> 00:34:33.440
why aren't the clouds green? Meaning on Earth, if you
724
00:34:33.460 --> 00:34:35.510
could have life in the clouds so easily, then why
725
00:34:35.610 --> 00:34:38.949
aren't the clouds green? And that's an interesting objection, but
726
00:34:39.329 --> 00:34:42.690
it may be that there's some reason characteristics of the
727
00:34:42.780 --> 00:34:46.440
Venusian clouds that are more suitable for life than Earth clouds.
728
00:34:46.619 --> 00:34:50.849
But if they were green, it would mean some chlorophyll
729
00:34:51.349 --> 00:34:52.650
photosynthesizing life.
730
00:34:53.300 --> 00:34:55.260
Well, I mean, his point is that life is so
731
00:34:55.320 --> 00:34:58.199
opportunistic that anywhere on earth where you can have life,
732
00:34:58.639 --> 00:34:59.260
it's abundant.
733
00:34:59.340 --> 00:35:00.019
You do, yes.
734
00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:02.119
So why are our clouds full of life if you
735
00:35:02.139 --> 00:35:03.349
can have life in clouds?
736
00:35:03.590 --> 00:35:05.170
Didn't you just give the answer to that when you
737
00:35:05.210 --> 00:35:09.889
said life is opportunistic, which means if it's easier not
738
00:35:09.969 --> 00:35:12.469
to have life in the clouds here, then the life
739
00:35:12.489 --> 00:35:15.659
will take advantage of the opportunity that's available, which is
740
00:35:15.699 --> 00:35:18.920
life everywhere else. But if there were no other choice...
741
00:35:19.300 --> 00:35:22.900
then perhaps life would manifest itself in the cloud. No,
742
00:35:22.900 --> 00:35:24.639
that's not how life works. You don't think? No, not
743
00:35:24.659 --> 00:35:24.989
at all.
744
00:35:25.010 --> 00:35:26.519
Life goes everywhere it can possibly go.
745
00:35:26.530 --> 00:35:27.710
Any place it can possibly go.
746
00:35:27.730 --> 00:35:30.409
Yeah, because you always want to find some niche where
747
00:35:30.429 --> 00:35:32.690
your predators can't get to. You know, there's a lot
748
00:35:32.730 --> 00:35:35.380
of pressure to just like live in new places if
749
00:35:35.420 --> 00:35:35.739
you can.
750
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:37.500
Gotcha. So then in that.
751
00:35:38.119 --> 00:35:39.820
We have life forms living at the bottom of the
752
00:35:39.920 --> 00:35:42.719
ocean where there's hot vents coming out.
753
00:35:43.500 --> 00:35:46.349
And sulfur and all kinds of terrible stuff from volcanic...
754
00:35:46.010 --> 00:35:48.469
And they're doing the backstroke. And they're chilling down there.
755
00:35:48.489 --> 00:35:52.030
They're just chilling. So in that case... Actually, they're hot.
756
00:35:53.429 --> 00:35:57.969
So then what would happen in Venus that would be
757
00:35:58.010 --> 00:36:01.840
the difference where life could exist? Would the pressure create
758
00:36:01.900 --> 00:36:03.179
some kind of difference?
759
00:36:03.539 --> 00:36:05.659
Well, one difference is that on Earth.
760
00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:08.789
clouds are not a very stable environment they don't they
761
00:36:08.829 --> 00:36:11.289
don't last they come and go they evaporate they literally
762
00:36:11.329 --> 00:36:14.750
dissipate very thin gathering on venus venus is covered with
763
00:36:14.789 --> 00:36:18.550
a permanent global cloud deck so so the clouds of
764
00:36:18.590 --> 00:36:20.789
venus are almost like the oceans of earth in terms
765
00:36:20.849 --> 00:36:23.010
of the stability of the environment.
766
00:36:22.969 --> 00:36:25.150
Okay well there's a there that's a.
767
00:36:25.150 --> 00:36:28.230
Good reason yeah that's my main that's my main answer
768
00:36:28.250 --> 00:36:30.429
to that point that chris makes but you know there's
769
00:36:30.469 --> 00:36:33.150
other objections like all that acid, you.
770
00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:37.769
Know, all that acid.
771
00:36:38.190 --> 00:36:40.570
No, I don't mean, I don't mean that kind of acid.
772
00:36:40.590 --> 00:36:46.110
The kind that makes you hear voices. No, I mean
773
00:36:46.510 --> 00:36:50.150
all that sulfuric acid. But you know, the more we'd
774
00:36:50.190 --> 00:36:52.199
study life on earth, the more we find that life
775
00:36:52.889 --> 00:36:57.099
thrives in these extreme environments we didn't anticipate. And, and
776
00:36:57.119 --> 00:37:00.079
people have been sort of playing around with that chemist,
777
00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:04.519
alternative chemistries of life that, could possibly survive. So I think,
778
00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:08.340
you know, it's just an interesting unknown. And there have
779
00:37:08.389 --> 00:37:13.449
been some observations. Neil, you mentioned the phosphine. That's controversial.
780
00:37:13.489 --> 00:37:15.809
Did we really see phosphine in the cause of Venus?
781
00:37:16.590 --> 00:37:18.849
Which if we did, it's hard to explain.
782
00:37:19.260 --> 00:37:21.920
And who gives you phosphine? What life form gives you phosphine?
783
00:37:22.380 --> 00:37:26.920
So on Earth, it's weird things like rotting fish, you know,
784
00:37:26.980 --> 00:37:30.500
and it's like it smells terrible. It's just this sort
785
00:37:30.519 --> 00:37:34.750
of byproduct of actually kind of decomposing life. It's, you know,
786
00:37:34.789 --> 00:37:37.389
it's a hydrogen rich molecule. So it's it's what we
787
00:37:37.409 --> 00:37:41.590
call a reduced molecule. which is common in biological materials,
788
00:37:41.630 --> 00:37:44.269
but not common in an atmosphere like Venus that's full
789
00:37:44.329 --> 00:37:48.650
of more oxidized and acidic materials. So it's not.
790
00:37:48.510 --> 00:37:49.690
Something you'd expect on Venus.
791
00:37:49.710 --> 00:37:51.820
You'd expect there to be phosphorus, but it to be
792
00:37:51.860 --> 00:37:56.199
bonded with oxygen or some other compounds. If it's bonded
793
00:37:56.219 --> 00:37:58.440
to hydrogen, there's something weird going on.
794
00:37:58.780 --> 00:38:01.940
That would be oxidized rather than reduced is the pairing
795
00:38:01.980 --> 00:38:05.380
of those words. So for me, what's intriguing about Venus
796
00:38:05.599 --> 00:38:13.030
is you can... pre-choose a pressure and a temperature that
797
00:38:13.110 --> 00:38:16.590
might be good for your life in a particular layer
798
00:38:16.610 --> 00:38:20.130
of that atmosphere. And this is why the surface temperature
799
00:38:20.250 --> 00:38:23.230
is irrelevant. If you can find a nice cozy place
800
00:38:23.849 --> 00:38:26.730
at a stable layer in the atmosphere that you can
801
00:38:26.769 --> 00:38:27.289
call home.
802
00:38:28.429 --> 00:38:28.929
Makes sense.
803
00:38:29.070 --> 00:38:32.280
Well, right. And where that cloud deck happens to be,
804
00:38:32.360 --> 00:38:36.219
that stable, thick cloud deck I was mentioning, is at
805
00:38:36.239 --> 00:38:37.800
a place where the temperatures are moderate.
806
00:38:38.309 --> 00:38:39.369
And the pressure is moderate.
807
00:38:39.690 --> 00:38:40.849
Moderate to humans, yes.
808
00:38:42.389 --> 00:38:47.130
But you can legitimately call that surface pressure uninhabitable, even
809
00:38:47.190 --> 00:38:51.409
not just being sort of human-centric or Earth-centric, because almost
810
00:38:51.530 --> 00:38:54.780
no complex chemistry can survive there, like no organic molecules.
811
00:38:55.079 --> 00:38:58.599
Nothing that is bonded to anything else basically can survive there.
812
00:38:58.619 --> 00:39:01.820
It's so hot, it just rips molecules apart. So that seems,
813
00:39:02.360 --> 00:39:05.380
even if you're not being sort of Earth-centric, it seems
814
00:39:05.440 --> 00:39:08.159
like that kind of temperature would be very hard for anything.
815
00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:12.159
So what do you fear most going forward with budget,
816
00:39:12.260 --> 00:39:18.059
with culture, politics? Is there in terms of the health
817
00:39:18.679 --> 00:39:20.179
of the search for life in the universe?
818
00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:24.909
Oh, man, what do I fear most? I'll answer that
819
00:39:24.949 --> 00:39:26.949
in a roundabout way. Here's something that gives me hope,
820
00:39:27.010 --> 00:39:29.969
which is that last year we launched the Europa Clipper mission.
821
00:39:30.260 --> 00:39:30.559
Love it.
822
00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:31.019
Yeah.
823
00:39:31.039 --> 00:39:33.559
And if you think about the timescale, it's going to
824
00:39:33.619 --> 00:39:38.119
get to the Jupiter system in the early 2030s.
825
00:39:39.800 --> 00:39:42.039
It's on its way there. It's been launched. They can't
826
00:39:42.099 --> 00:39:42.489
stop it.
827
00:39:42.519 --> 00:39:44.889
Well, amusingly, it's on its way back to Earth now
828
00:39:44.969 --> 00:39:48.170
for a flyby, but it's going to Jupiter.
829
00:39:48.349 --> 00:39:49.210
You mean a gravity assist?
830
00:39:49.789 --> 00:39:50.750
Yes, exactly.
831
00:39:51.030 --> 00:39:53.650
So I think about that and I think, well, okay,
832
00:39:53.690 --> 00:39:58.150
by the early 2030s, we'll have a different administration, presumably.
833
00:39:58.530 --> 00:40:01.920
We'll have different leadership, but there will be a NASA.
834
00:40:02.159 --> 00:40:04.880
There will be a science team. We'll be operating that mission.
835
00:40:04.940 --> 00:40:10.469
Somebody will be here and So the timescale of these
836
00:40:10.530 --> 00:40:14.250
projects that we do in our field gives one a
837
00:40:14.269 --> 00:40:20.639
certain perspective. They outlast administrations and government figures. Now, that's
838
00:40:20.699 --> 00:40:23.539
also a reason to be scared because things can be
839
00:40:23.579 --> 00:40:26.480
canceled and so forth. So the fear that's the flip
840
00:40:26.519 --> 00:40:29.139
side of that is my worst case scenario is things
841
00:40:29.579 --> 00:40:32.599
go so wrong that by the time Clipper gets to
842
00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:37.019
the Jupiter system, there is nobody here operating it, you know,
843
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:39.300
and that's, that's a nightmare for me, but I don't
844
00:40:39.320 --> 00:40:40.260
think that's going to happen.
845
00:40:40.360 --> 00:40:41.179
It's more a.
846
00:40:41.320 --> 00:40:43.530
Source of hope because whatever happens, it's not going to
847
00:40:43.550 --> 00:40:45.789
be so bad. And we will have a mission and
848
00:40:45.829 --> 00:40:48.190
we'll get through this and we'll keep exploring.
849
00:40:48.409 --> 00:40:52.010
Plus, if I can add, NASA has 10 centers that are,
850
00:40:52.510 --> 00:40:55.670
that reside in eight different States. Yeah. And those States
851
00:40:55.789 --> 00:41:00.409
variously vote for red, four blue, five red, three blue,
852
00:41:01.110 --> 00:41:04.900
five blue, three red. So NASA is embedded in our
853
00:41:05.019 --> 00:41:09.519
political landscape as no other agency is. And so- Everybody
854
00:41:09.559 --> 00:41:09.840
loves it.
855
00:41:09.980 --> 00:41:11.099
And everybody loves space.
856
00:41:11.159 --> 00:41:13.599
Yeah, everyone is looking up. All it means is if
857
00:41:13.659 --> 00:41:17.989
you love NASA or hate NASA, you cannot deduce what
858
00:41:18.030 --> 00:41:19.909
their political leaning is based on that alone.
859
00:41:19.929 --> 00:41:20.570
Based on that alone.
860
00:41:20.650 --> 00:41:24.449
Right, right. And just to put nuance to what you said,
861
00:41:24.929 --> 00:41:26.949
the Europa Clipper is not just going to Jupiter, it's
862
00:41:26.969 --> 00:41:27.730
going to Europa.
863
00:41:28.110 --> 00:41:31.590
Well, it's gonna make 50 close passes by Europa from
864
00:41:31.650 --> 00:41:32.909
its perch orbiting Jupiter.
865
00:41:32.929 --> 00:41:33.409
Gotcha.
866
00:41:33.449 --> 00:41:36.010
Yes, Europa is the place we're going to be looking at.
867
00:41:36.030 --> 00:41:38.519
That's where the action is. That's very cool.
868
00:41:38.960 --> 00:41:40.519
Hey, let me ask you, now I know you're a
869
00:41:40.539 --> 00:41:43.860
planetary astrobiologist and this is not planetary because I want
870
00:41:43.900 --> 00:41:47.579
to talk about an asteroid. But I just read about
871
00:41:47.760 --> 00:41:51.400
some of the findings from Bennu. And one of it was,
872
00:41:51.699 --> 00:41:55.699
I think that they had, they found 14 amino acids
873
00:41:55.820 --> 00:42:00.079
and RNA. And we know that those are the building
874
00:42:00.139 --> 00:42:03.530
block proteins of life. So that we're on the same page. Yes.
875
00:42:03.789 --> 00:42:06.349
Bennu is an asteroid that's the size of the Empire
876
00:42:06.389 --> 00:42:08.869
State Building. Okay. It is on a collision course. Well,
877
00:42:09.030 --> 00:42:10.989
it has an orbit that crosses Earth's orbit. Earth's orbit.
878
00:42:11.269 --> 00:42:14.550
Its next close approach will be in 2182. Right. We
879
00:42:14.849 --> 00:42:17.969
went there with the mission Osiris-Rex. Osiris-Rex, right. Which did
880
00:42:18.030 --> 00:42:18.940
a touch and go.
881
00:42:19.039 --> 00:42:22.159
Yes. Grabbed some of the material. And came back.
882
00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:24.579
And it deposited back here on Earth.
883
00:42:24.639 --> 00:42:25.300
That's badass.
884
00:42:25.400 --> 00:42:28.800
And we analyzed it and leading to what you just described.
885
00:42:28.880 --> 00:42:30.619
That is badass. Now pick it up with.
886
00:42:30.659 --> 00:42:30.929
All right.
887
00:42:31.150 --> 00:42:33.429
So what I want to say to you as planetary
888
00:42:33.510 --> 00:42:37.510
astrobiologists is- what are these implications of finding these building
889
00:42:37.530 --> 00:42:40.070
block proteins of life? Does it just mean that that
890
00:42:40.369 --> 00:42:43.250
stuff is in our solar system and no big deal?
891
00:42:43.389 --> 00:42:46.699
Or does it mean that, you know, the likelihood of
892
00:42:46.760 --> 00:42:51.920
life is more likely someplace else? What does it mean?
893
00:42:52.119 --> 00:42:53.199
It's really profound.
894
00:42:53.320 --> 00:42:55.510
You know, they didn't find proteins, they didn't find RNA,
895
00:42:56.019 --> 00:42:58.539
but what they found was all of the stuff you
896
00:42:58.579 --> 00:43:01.409
need to make proteins and RNA, the amino acids that
897
00:43:01.449 --> 00:43:06.159
make proteins, the the nucleotide bases that make RNA and DNA,
898
00:43:06.519 --> 00:43:10.320
and they found sugars now too. And that's all the
899
00:43:10.360 --> 00:43:11.639
basic stuff you need for life.
900
00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:14.429
Well, what kind of sugar did they found? Domino.
901
00:43:16.909 --> 00:43:21.730
A couple of different sugars. I'm not remembering which ones.
902
00:43:21.769 --> 00:43:23.269
I think ribose was one of them.
903
00:43:23.469 --> 00:43:24.590
It was, absolutely.
904
00:43:24.610 --> 00:43:28.190
It absolutely was. And these are molecules that have built
905
00:43:28.329 --> 00:43:31.469
in them quite a bit of chemical energy where you
906
00:43:31.489 --> 00:43:34.659
can set stuff into motion if you wanted to have
907
00:43:34.719 --> 00:43:38.679
some serious chemical action. Very nice.
908
00:43:38.920 --> 00:43:41.579
So there's a couple of really amazing implications.
909
00:43:42.550 --> 00:43:45.550
One is, I mean, remember this asteroid Bennu was just
910
00:43:45.610 --> 00:43:48.760
kind of chosen because, as Neil said, it's coming close
911
00:43:48.780 --> 00:43:50.519
to Earth, but it was also convenient to get to.
912
00:43:50.780 --> 00:43:53.619
So there's nothing about it that's different from like thousands
913
00:43:53.639 --> 00:43:57.219
of other carbonaceous, primitive, carbon-rich asteroids out there. But it
914
00:43:57.260 --> 00:44:00.079
happens to be full of the stuff of life. What
915
00:44:00.119 --> 00:44:03.059
this implies is that when the planets were young, they
916
00:44:03.099 --> 00:44:06.239
were all being sprinkled with the ingredients for life, not
917
00:44:06.280 --> 00:44:10.019
just Earth, but all of them were being plastered with
918
00:44:10.059 --> 00:44:14.000
this stuff that's sort of like the the kit, the recipe,
919
00:44:14.039 --> 00:44:18.110
just add water. And it implies not just our own
920
00:44:18.150 --> 00:44:22.269
solar system, but probably elsewhere. I mean, again, we have
921
00:44:22.309 --> 00:44:24.369
to extrapolate, but there's nothing that we know about the
922
00:44:24.409 --> 00:44:27.170
chemistry of our asteroid belt that's probably different from that
923
00:44:27.230 --> 00:44:31.090
around other stars. And so it implies that the stuff
924
00:44:31.139 --> 00:44:35.179
of life is all over young planets in the universe
925
00:44:35.639 --> 00:44:38.119
when they've just formed. But the other weird thing is
926
00:44:38.159 --> 00:44:41.199
you can ask, so why didn't it progress to life
927
00:44:41.869 --> 00:44:46.159
in this asteroid? Why don't you have proteins and RNA?
928
00:44:46.360 --> 00:44:48.400
You have the kit, but the kit has not been
929
00:44:48.440 --> 00:44:52.300
assembled there. So it also tells you something about that
930
00:44:52.980 --> 00:44:57.860
the progress of those materials towards life is not inevitable
931
00:44:57.880 --> 00:45:01.550
in every environment, that you need the right environment, but
932
00:45:01.590 --> 00:45:03.269
the stuff is everywhere.
933
00:45:03.349 --> 00:45:04.889
You have the kit, but not the caboodle.
934
00:45:05.349 --> 00:45:06.969
Right, right, right.
935
00:45:07.070 --> 00:45:12.269
You need the caboodle. You need the caboodle. Nice. So David,
936
00:45:12.289 --> 00:45:15.230
let me ask you some just completely out of left
937
00:45:15.250 --> 00:45:18.090
field questions here. Remind us, you play an instrument. What
938
00:45:18.110 --> 00:45:18.690
instrument is that?
939
00:45:19.510 --> 00:45:20.210
Mostly guitar.
940
00:45:20.380 --> 00:45:21.260
And it's jazz guitar?
941
00:45:22.139 --> 00:45:24.699
Well, funk and reggae.
942
00:45:24.780 --> 00:45:30.139
Excuse me, funky smooth. So if aliens visited us, would
943
00:45:30.179 --> 00:45:32.940
you play your guitar for them? Would they be able
944
00:45:32.960 --> 00:45:35.019
to hear it? And would they want to kill you
945
00:45:35.590 --> 00:45:39.530
or hold you? How might they react to your music?
946
00:45:40.010 --> 00:45:43.250
Yeah, boy, that's a great question. I would love to
947
00:45:43.289 --> 00:45:46.659
have the chance to try. It could be a tough audience.
948
00:45:48.400 --> 00:45:51.219
That's a tough crowd. Because in Close Encounters of the
949
00:45:51.239 --> 00:45:55.079
Third Kind, musical notes were a fundamental part of the communication.
950
00:45:55.099 --> 00:45:57.679
No, I mean, it's a really cool question because there's
951
00:45:57.719 --> 00:45:59.539
a lot of dimensions to that question if you start
952
00:45:59.559 --> 00:46:00.050
to think about it.
953
00:46:00.059 --> 00:46:03.639
Because what is music? Why is it that every.
954
00:46:03.440 --> 00:46:07.619
Culture on Earth finds it important and valuable to put
955
00:46:07.659 --> 00:46:11.710
together sequences of frequencies and rhythms and do this thing
956
00:46:11.730 --> 00:46:14.230
that we call music. And is it possible that that's
957
00:46:14.289 --> 00:46:17.409
so built into what it means to have consciousness and
958
00:46:17.449 --> 00:46:19.909
a brain and a culture that that would be something
959
00:46:19.929 --> 00:46:23.550
that would be shared by extraterrestrials? I don't think it's impossible,
960
00:46:23.849 --> 00:46:26.489
but it gets to these deep questions. First of all,
961
00:46:26.510 --> 00:46:29.670
what is music and why is it so universal? And
962
00:46:29.710 --> 00:46:32.800
second of all, how does it relate to our experience
963
00:46:32.840 --> 00:46:35.440
as conscious beings? And is that something that might truly
964
00:46:35.480 --> 00:46:37.340
be universal beyond just this planet?
965
00:46:37.400 --> 00:46:39.920
But you didn't mean why is music universal? You meant
966
00:46:40.119 --> 00:46:44.010
why is music earthwide? Yes. Yes. Universal on earth.
967
00:46:44.190 --> 00:46:44.989
On earth.
968
00:46:45.010 --> 00:46:46.230
And could it be universal?
969
00:46:46.369 --> 00:46:48.269
Could it be universal capital U?
970
00:46:48.489 --> 00:46:48.889
Right.
971
00:46:48.989 --> 00:46:51.969
Yeah. And that presumes that the aliens have a sense
972
00:46:52.010 --> 00:46:53.530
of hearing, for example.
973
00:46:53.809 --> 00:46:56.960
Not necessarily. Maybe they actually would experience the vibrations of
974
00:46:56.980 --> 00:46:59.739
the music. I mean, that's what our ears are doing.
975
00:46:59.760 --> 00:47:02.239
We do sonifications of other kinds of data, right? So
976
00:47:02.280 --> 00:47:06.460
could we take our music and convert those patterns into whatever.
977
00:47:06.159 --> 00:47:09.469
They- If they sense the vibrations, you would call that hearing,
978
00:47:09.650 --> 00:47:11.619
I think. Yeah, you would. You would.
979
00:47:11.659 --> 00:47:12.539
But what I'm saying.
980
00:47:12.559 --> 00:47:17.360
What David's saying is that we have sonified other forms
981
00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:17.800
of data.
982
00:47:18.000 --> 00:47:18.340
Correct.
983
00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:21.340
And in fact, we did a whole show on the
984
00:47:21.380 --> 00:47:23.920
sonification of images. That's right. Right.
985
00:47:24.139 --> 00:47:24.360
Yeah.
986
00:47:24.440 --> 00:47:25.019
From Chandra.
987
00:47:25.300 --> 00:47:25.500
Yeah.
988
00:47:25.519 --> 00:47:27.679
From the Chandra X-ray telescope.
989
00:47:27.719 --> 00:47:27.840
Yeah.
990
00:47:27.860 --> 00:47:30.929
We featured Kim Arkan's work on that. Absolutely. On stage, actually.
991
00:47:30.969 --> 00:47:31.670
Fascinating stuff.
992
00:47:31.769 --> 00:47:32.010
Yes.
993
00:47:32.070 --> 00:47:34.369
Yeah. But like I'm saying, if they had like the
994
00:47:34.889 --> 00:47:37.909
receptors all over their body and they were you know,
995
00:47:37.949 --> 00:47:40.699
receiving the vibrations that way. We just have it in
996
00:47:40.880 --> 00:47:43.099
one little portal called our ears.
997
00:47:43.440 --> 00:47:46.460
I mean, presumably they have some kind of senses. It's
998
00:47:46.480 --> 00:47:49.780
hard to imagine some, you know, cognitive being and whatever
999
00:47:49.820 --> 00:47:53.469
senses they have, they can perceive patterns and rhythms and
1000
00:47:53.510 --> 00:47:55.190
so forth. And so there's got to be some way
1001
00:47:55.469 --> 00:47:57.090
to play our music for them, even if it's not.
1002
00:47:57.190 --> 00:47:59.550
Well, I'll tell you this, Dr. Funky Spoon, if you
1003
00:47:59.590 --> 00:48:03.590
play for them, And the response is, all right, now.
1004
00:48:03.949 --> 00:48:09.840
All right. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's my jam. And guess what?
1005
00:48:09.880 --> 00:48:13.980
You have done some great work for bringing us together.
1006
00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:15.860
I think it's worth a try.
1007
00:48:16.280 --> 00:48:17.719
Yeah, yeah. He would be the ambassador.
1008
00:48:19.699 --> 00:48:22.639
But actually, I think there's probably more appropriate, like Sun Ra,
1009
00:48:22.780 --> 00:48:27.079
you know, or George Clinton with his mothership. Oh, wow.
1010
00:48:27.179 --> 00:48:30.739
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the... What do you call it? Afrofuturism.
1011
00:48:30.820 --> 00:48:34.440
Afrofuturism. I got to tell you, I've never thought of that,
1012
00:48:34.480 --> 00:48:38.179
but if aliens come, we should definitely introduce them to
1013
00:48:38.300 --> 00:48:41.320
George Clinton and the Mothership Connection.
1014
00:48:43.250 --> 00:48:47.030
Yeah. You know, the ship, the Mothership, it's in the
1015
00:48:47.409 --> 00:48:51.670
National Museum of African American Art here in Washington, D.C.
1016
00:48:51.710 --> 00:48:54.590
They've actually got that as one of their artifacts. We
1017
00:48:54.610 --> 00:48:55.489
can take them over there.
1018
00:48:55.510 --> 00:49:00.030
Does the museum still exist? Not for long.
1019
00:49:05.170 --> 00:49:06.250
I don't understand it.
1020
00:49:06.250 --> 00:49:10.369
As of today, I believe it does, but there's no.
1021
00:49:10.139 --> 00:49:12.429
Telling about next week.
1022
00:49:12.429 --> 00:49:13.809
Well, I got to.
1023
00:49:13.579 --> 00:49:15.409
Go check it out then.
1024
00:49:15.409 --> 00:49:18.469
I haven't been. So, David, I think we've run out
1025
00:49:18.489 --> 00:49:18.989
of time here.
1026
00:49:19.409 --> 00:49:19.690
Wow.
1027
00:49:19.829 --> 00:49:21.730
But like I said, it's always good to check in
1028
00:49:21.769 --> 00:49:22.769
with you. Dr.
1029
00:49:23.030 --> 00:49:24.409
Funk and Spoon!
1030
00:49:25.050 --> 00:49:26.949
And where do you perform in Washington, D.C.? You got
1031
00:49:26.969 --> 00:49:27.380
a hovel there?
1032
00:49:28.800 --> 00:49:32.059
There's a few different places. One of our favorite places
1033
00:49:32.099 --> 00:49:34.889
to play is a VFW post called Hell's Bottom in
1034
00:49:34.929 --> 00:49:38.110
Tacoma Park. Just because it's like it was rated one
1035
00:49:38.130 --> 00:49:40.610
of the 10 best dive bars in Washington, D.C.
1036
00:49:40.670 --> 00:49:41.769
By the Washington Post.
1037
00:49:42.309 --> 00:49:44.760
And it's just like a really friendly neighborhood place. And
1038
00:49:44.780 --> 00:49:48.780
we play there basically the first Wednesday of every month
1039
00:49:49.000 --> 00:49:49.860
with the Groovadelics.
1040
00:49:50.539 --> 00:49:51.599
The Groovadelics.
1041
00:49:51.639 --> 00:49:52.239
Right on.
1042
00:49:52.280 --> 00:49:53.659
That feels very 1960s. I like it.
1043
00:49:53.719 --> 00:49:55.619
Yeah, yeah.
1044
00:49:55.940 --> 00:49:59.360
There's a number of places around town. If you're in D.C.
1045
00:49:59.440 --> 00:50:00.880
and you want to catch us, the best thing to
1046
00:50:00.920 --> 00:50:04.329
do is go on Facebook to the Groovadelics webpage, and
1047
00:50:04.349 --> 00:50:05.409
we post stuff on there.
1048
00:50:05.469 --> 00:50:05.670
Excellent.
1049
00:50:05.690 --> 00:50:07.849
And you're on social media as Dr. Funky Spoon.
1050
00:50:08.489 --> 00:50:08.969
That's right.
1051
00:50:09.110 --> 00:50:11.210
Correct. D-R, Dr. Funky Spoon.
1052
00:50:11.230 --> 00:50:11.409
D-R.
1053
00:50:11.469 --> 00:50:14.469
Yeah, very nice. You got it. All right, dude. We
1054
00:50:14.510 --> 00:50:15.210
love you here, man.
1055
00:50:15.989 --> 00:50:17.010
Always good to see you, man.
1056
00:50:17.050 --> 00:50:18.460
We love you here. All right. Chuck.
1057
00:50:19.289 --> 00:50:20.010
Always a pleasure.
1058
00:50:20.239 --> 00:50:23.579
All right. Yeah. We got to get this guy. We
1059
00:50:23.619 --> 00:50:24.440
got to have him every week.
1060
00:50:28.239 --> 00:50:28.460
Dr.
1061
00:50:28.480 --> 00:50:29.719
Funky Spoon is always a good time.
1062
00:50:29.760 --> 00:50:32.139
He's always a good time. This has been Star Talk,
1063
00:50:32.199 --> 00:50:36.579
our astrobiology Dr. Funky Spoon edition. Because that's where we
1064
00:50:36.599 --> 00:50:40.320
get a whole fresh look on astrobiology anytime we talk
1065
00:50:40.340 --> 00:50:40.820
to this man.
1066
00:50:40.840 --> 00:50:41.239
That's right.
1067
00:50:41.500 --> 00:50:44.670
Neil deGrasse Tyson here for Star Talk. As always, keep
1068
00:50:44.690 --> 00:50:45.079
looking up.