67: Providing better support for teenagers — an interview with Anne Longfield

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INTRO: Welcome to the NSPCC Learning Podcast, where
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INTRO: we share learning and expertise in child protection
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INTRO: from inside and outside of the organisation.
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INTRO: We aim to create debate, encourage reflection
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INTRO: and share good practice on how we can all work
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INTRO: together to keep babies, children and young people
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INTRO: safe.
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PRODUCER: Welcome to the NSPCC Learning Podcast.
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PRODUCER: This episode features an interview with Anne
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PRODUCER: Longfield, the Executive Chair of the Centre for
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PRODUCER: Young Lives and Children's Commissioner for
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PRODUCER: England from 2015 to 2021.
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PRODUCER: Earlier this year Anne published 'Young Lives,
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PRODUCER: Big Ambitions', a new book which examines the
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PRODUCER: problems facing vulnerable young people in the
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PRODUCER: UK. You can find out more about the book on
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PRODUCER: the NSPCC Library online catalogue.
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PRODUCER: In this interview, recorded in June 2024, Anne
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PRODUCER: shares her thoughts on what needs to be done to
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PRODUCER: improve the safeguarding support available to
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PRODUCER: teenagers across the UK, including implementing
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PRODUCER: a more joined-up approach to recognising the
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PRODUCER: risks that teenagers face and providing better
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PRODUCER: access to early intervention and youth work
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PRODUCER: services.
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: My name's Wesley Powley-Baker and I
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: work at the NSPCC as a Safeguarding
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: Manager in the Safeguarding Unit, and
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: today we're really pleased to have
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: Anne Longfield for today's podcast.
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: In the main, we're going to be
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: talking about Anne's recent book that
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: she's just published called 'Young
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: Lives, Big Ambitions'.
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: Just a bit of background on Anne:
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: Anne was the Children's Commissioner
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: for England from 2015 to 2021
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: and is now chair of the Commission on
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: Young Lives. She spent the last three
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: decades working to improve the lives
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: of the most vulnerable children and
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: earlier this year, as I've said, she's
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: published a book, 'Young Lives, Big
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: Ambitions', which explores how
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: vulnerable children and teens are
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: being let down by the system that
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: exists to protect them, presenting
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: solutions to give every young person
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: the best chance to succeed in life.
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: So, Anne, thank you for joining us.
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ANNE LONGFIELD: Pleasure. Thank you so much.
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: The first question I'd like to ask,
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: and I'm sure our audience would be
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: really interested in this, is what
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: was the journey that led to the
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: writing of this book for you?
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ANNE LONGFIELD: Well, quite a long one.
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ANNE LONGFIELD: You've just mentioned three decades there,
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ANNE LONGFIELD: and there's even a little bit more than
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ANNE LONGFIELD: that. But, essentially, over the years,
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ANNE LONGFIELD: all of my work has been about improving
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ANNE LONGFIELD: outcomes, improving the law, improving
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ANNE LONGFIELD: our offerings, if you like, as a country,
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ANNE LONGFIELD: as a society for children, but especially
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ANNE LONGFIELD: vulnerable children.
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ANNE LONGFIELD: From the early days of my work in
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ANNE LONGFIELD: areas of London and then in other areas
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ANNE LONGFIELD: around the country, it was very clear to
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ANNE LONGFIELD: me that there was a significant number of
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ANNE LONGFIELD: children who had a mountain to climb as
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ANNE LONGFIELD: they grew up compared to other children,
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ANNE LONGFIELD: and that so often they were
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ANNE LONGFIELD: left without help.
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ANNE LONGFIELD: They were marginalised
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ANNE LONGFIELD: until the point where the problem became
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ANNE LONGFIELD: a crisis and intervention was needed.
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ANNE LONGFIELD: And so often their life chances and
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ANNE LONGFIELD: expectations were massively diminished as
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ANNE LONGFIELD: a result. And on the other side of it,
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ANNE LONGFIELD: which feeds my optimistic elements
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ANNE LONGFIELD: — which hopefully are in the main
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ANNE LONGFIELD: — I was very aware that you could do
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ANNE LONGFIELD: things about this. I worked in the very
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ANNE LONGFIELD: early days with families and parents
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ANNE LONGFIELD: in parts of south west London where
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ANNE LONGFIELD: proper ongoing support was
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ANNE LONGFIELD: available, and I was part of
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ANNE LONGFIELD: of delivering that.
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ANNE LONGFIELD: And with that kind of expectation that
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ANNE LONGFIELD: support was there, families were really
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ANNE LONGFIELD: able to achieve huge things and
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ANNE LONGFIELD: plan for their future with their kids and
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ANNE LONGFIELD: have that reliance or that
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ANNE LONGFIELD: confidence that support was there when
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ANNE LONGFIELD: they needed it. So I've always known
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ANNE LONGFIELD: the power of having support
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ANNE LONGFIELD: that you could turn to and you could rely
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ANNE LONGFIELD: on and trusted people that could do that.
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ANNE LONGFIELD: And I guess that has influenced me
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ANNE LONGFIELD: throughout.
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ANNE LONGFIELD: And to get to the point of the
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ANNE LONGFIELD: specific topic of this book, all of my
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ANNE LONGFIELD: work as Children's Commissioner built on
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ANNE LONGFIELD: that. One of the things that you have as
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ANNE LONGFIELD: your powers as Children's Commissioner is
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ANNE LONGFIELD: that you're able to gather data from any
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ANNE LONGFIELD: public body regarding children —not
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ANNE LONGFIELD: personal data, but administrative data
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ANNE LONGFIELD: that you can then analyse and you can go
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ANNE LONGFIELD: behind the headlines, go behind the
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ANNE LONGFIELD: findings and find out what's really going
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ANNE LONGFIELD: on. And I spent those six years as
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ANNE LONGFIELD: Children's Commissioner really
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ANNE LONGFIELD: establishing the levels of vulnerability
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ANNE LONGFIELD: in this country and also the nature of
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ANNE LONGFIELD: that to really attempt to get the focus
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ANNE LONGFIELD: on the root causes of this and getting
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ANNE LONGFIELD: ahead of the game in terms of preventing
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ANNE LONGFIELD: the crises that we can all see in front
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ANNE LONGFIELD: of our eyes. It was very clear to me as
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ANNE LONGFIELD: Children's Commissioner, but also at the
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ANNE LONGFIELD: end of my term, that actually there
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ANNE LONGFIELD: was a huge paucity of research and
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ANNE LONGFIELD: knowledge about vulnerability for
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ANNE LONGFIELD: teenagers.
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ANNE LONGFIELD: There was a collective horror
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ANNE LONGFIELD: at some of the headlines that we would all
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ANNE LONGFIELD: see in the newspapers or in the serious
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ANNE LONGFIELD: case reviews.
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ANNE LONGFIELD: But actually there wasn't the machinery or
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ANNE LONGFIELD: policy space or policy coordination within
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ANNE LONGFIELD: government to spend
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ANNE LONGFIELD: the time needed to understand why these
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ANNE LONGFIELD: things happened and how they could be
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ANNE LONGFIELD: prevented.
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ANNE LONGFIELD: So I spent the
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ANNE LONGFIELD: following two years, having founded
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ANNE LONGFIELD: a Commission on Young Lives to look at
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ANNE LONGFIELD: these things, understanding that and
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ANNE LONGFIELD: bringing forward what I hoped
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ANNE LONGFIELD: would be not only practical and doable
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ANNE LONGFIELD: solutions, but also eye-catching solutions
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ANNE LONGFIELD: that would really put forward
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ANNE LONGFIELD: a plan nationally and locally and put a
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ANNE LONGFIELD: policy emphasis and highlight onto that,
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ANNE LONGFIELD: which I hope that has done.
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ANNE LONGFIELD: And that work really led to a lot
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ANNE LONGFIELD: of the thinking about the book and
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ANNE LONGFIELD: bringing all that together into a
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ANNE LONGFIELD: narrative about what goes wrong and
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ANNE LONGFIELD: also what we could achieve as a country
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ANNE LONGFIELD: if we were more ambitious for our
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ANNE LONGFIELD: vulnerable children and our teens.
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: Thank you. That was a great
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: introduction and context.
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: Moving on a bit to that first
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: chapter, which I thought was really,
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: really powerful. You know, these are
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: young lives and particularly the
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: story around Jayden and Jacob
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: and I have a bit of a question around
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: that. So in the beginning of that
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: chapter in the book, you talk about
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: the failure to find "reachable
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: moments" when children could be
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: better supported, or in the worst
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: instances when children's lives could
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: have been saved. So what do you think
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: those... I mean, you've begun to talk
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: about that in that introduction, but
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: what do you think about what those
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: reachable moments look like?
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ANNE LONGFIELD: I think what is very evident is that
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ANNE LONGFIELD: we haven't recognised
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ANNE LONGFIELD: the risks that face teenagers enough
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ANNE LONGFIELD: in the past.
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ANNE LONGFIELD: That recognition hasn't gained its place
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ANNE LONGFIELD: in many of the statutory services that
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ANNE LONGFIELD: need to be much more aware of this and
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ANNE LONGFIELD: need to be both alert but also clear of
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ANNE LONGFIELD: their role.
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ANNE LONGFIELD: That's not to say there aren't brilliant
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ANNE LONGFIELD: people doing good things, but whether you
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ANNE LONGFIELD: look in children's social care, whether
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ANNE LONGFIELD: you look in the police, whether you look
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ANNE LONGFIELD: in some of the work around schools,
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ANNE LONGFIELD: there hasn't been that joined-up approach
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ANNE LONGFIELD: to being able to understand what the
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ANNE LONGFIELD: symptoms of vulnerability are, nor indeed
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ANNE LONGFIELD: when interventions are needed.
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ANNE LONGFIELD: And, as a result, children have often
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ANNE LONGFIELD: fallen through the gaps.
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ANNE LONGFIELD: I mean, the serious cases reviews speak
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ANNE LONGFIELD: for themselves in terms of the horror of
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ANNE LONGFIELD: how some of those tragedies happen.
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ANNE LONGFIELD: But also, I am told constantly
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ANNE LONGFIELD: by professionals working with young people
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ANNE LONGFIELD: that building relationships with young
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ANNE LONGFIELD: people who are often living lives of huge
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ANNE LONGFIELD: risk, there's not enough time spent on
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ANNE LONGFIELD: those relationships.
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ANNE LONGFIELD: And at the end of the day, it's the
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ANNE LONGFIELD: relationships that matter.
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ANNE LONGFIELD: It's the relationships that young people
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ANNE LONGFIELD: need to be able to have that confidence
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ANNE LONGFIELD: there's someone to turn to.
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ANNE LONGFIELD: Be able to get advice, able to get
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ANNE LONGFIELD: support. And so often
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ANNE LONGFIELD: those young people have missed out and
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ANNE LONGFIELD: faced huge escalating risks sometimes
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ANNE LONGFIELD: as a result.
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ANNE LONGFIELD: So those moments: well, you know, there
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ANNE LONGFIELD: are some clear indicators.
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ANNE LONGFIELD: You don't have to put it in professional
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ANNE LONGFIELD: jargon; just when things are going wrong.
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ANNE LONGFIELD: As a parent, you know when things aren't
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ANNE LONGFIELD: going right in terms of your child's life.
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ANNE LONGFIELD: When they're struggling at school, when
219
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ANNE LONGFIELD: they don't want to go to school, when
220
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ANNE LONGFIELD: there's behaviour problems at school, when
221
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ANNE LONGFIELD: the school may be instituting
222
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ANNE LONGFIELD: suspensions or exclusions, when children
223
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ANNE LONGFIELD: are spending long periods of time with
224
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ANNE LONGFIELD: groups of friends you don't know or
225
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ANNE LONGFIELD: changing groups of friends.
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ANNE LONGFIELD: All of those points are points that we
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ANNE LONGFIELD: should be alert to young people's
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ANNE LONGFIELD: welfare and wellbeing.
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ANNE LONGFIELD: And as parents and as professionals, we
230
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ANNE LONGFIELD: need to be alert to that. So if a school
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ANNE LONGFIELD: has got a child who isn't
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ANNE LONGFIELD: attending school often, a child who
233
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ANNE LONGFIELD: is struggling with certain situations, a
234
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ANNE LONGFIELD: child who is at risk of being excluded,
235
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ANNE LONGFIELD: then that's a huge red flag for
236
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ANNE LONGFIELD: 'something is going on'.
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ANNE LONGFIELD: And what I think we need to see is,
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ANNE LONGFIELD: at that point, a response that has —
239
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ANNE LONGFIELD: be it a pastoral team or preventative
240
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ANNE LONGFIELD: work with children at risk and families
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ANNE LONGFIELD: from social care — to be able to start
242
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ANNE LONGFIELD: wrapping around support and being able to
243
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ANNE LONGFIELD: help get out of that situation.
244
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ANNE LONGFIELD: And, of course, the most glaringly obvious
245
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ANNE LONGFIELD: point where there is one of those moments
246
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ANNE LONGFIELD: is when children end up in A&E.
247
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ANNE LONGFIELD: Often with boys, they will end up in A&E
248
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ANNE LONGFIELD: where there's been
249
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ANNE LONGFIELD: some kind of serious violence or knife
250
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ANNE LONGFIELD: attack and they've ended up injured.
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ANNE LONGFIELD: For girls, less likely to be in that
252
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ANNE LONGFIELD: situation, but equally they
253
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ANNE LONGFIELD: may go into A&E and talk about mental
254
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ANNE LONGFIELD: health or sexual health.
255
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ANNE LONGFIELD: Those are very obvious points where no one
256
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ANNE LONGFIELD: can ignore the fact something is going
257
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ANNE LONGFIELD: very wrong here.
258
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ANNE LONGFIELD: And one of the things that we've talked
259
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ANNE LONGFIELD: about in the book is about, at that point,
260
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ANNE LONGFIELD: to be able to have youth workers, girls
261
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ANNE LONGFIELD: workers, others there who can
262
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ANNE LONGFIELD: work intensively alongside those
263
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ANNE LONGFIELD: young people to be able to help them
264
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ANNE LONGFIELD: overcome whatever challenges, get out of
265
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ANNE LONGFIELD: whatever situation they're in.
266
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ANNE LONGFIELD: But it shouldn't take to the point where
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ANNE LONGFIELD: you've got a child being brought into an
268
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ANNE LONGFIELD: A&E covered in blood for us to know that
269
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ANNE LONGFIELD: something isn't going right.
270
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ANNE LONGFIELD: And it shouldn't be that the only point
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ANNE LONGFIELD: our services can respond to the extent
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ANNE LONGFIELD: needed is if it's actually a matter of
273
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ANNE LONGFIELD: life or death. We need to come way
274
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ANNE LONGFIELD: upstream in understanding where those
275
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ANNE LONGFIELD: children have vulnerabilities at home —
276
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ANNE LONGFIELD: before school, during primary, and as
277
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ANNE LONGFIELD: they move inro secondary school — and also
278
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ANNE LONGFIELD: be able to see the signs and respond to
279
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ANNE LONGFIELD: those signs when things are going well.
280
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ANNE LONGFIELD: And all of those moments where children
281
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ANNE LONGFIELD: are showing the signs of vulnerability, be
282
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ANNE LONGFIELD: that in school, be that not attending
283
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ANNE LONGFIELD: school, all of those points are where
284
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ANNE LONGFIELD: I would like to see there's enough
285
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ANNE LONGFIELD: relationships there to be able to bring
286
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ANNE LONGFIELD: that ring of protection around them.
287
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ANNE LONGFIELD: Now, youth workers in particular
288
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ANNE LONGFIELD: are often the ones who are able to
289
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ANNE LONGFIELD: deliver on that magic.
290
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ANNE LONGFIELD: You know, when children might not
291
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ANNE LONGFIELD: feel able to, or that
292
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ANNE LONGFIELD: they want to, confide in schools or
293
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ANNE LONGFIELD: confide in parents or do any of the things
294
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ANNE LONGFIELD: that those people want them to do,
295
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ANNE LONGFIELD: actually, it's youth workers who will be
296
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ANNE LONGFIELD: able to be the ones that find that
297
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ANNE LONGFIELD: connection and work with them to be able
298
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ANNE LONGFIELD: to develop their trust and relationship
299
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ANNE LONGFIELD: and also support them and guide them to a
300
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ANNE LONGFIELD: different place. Which is why in the book
301
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ANNE LONGFIELD: I put such an emphasis on youth workers
302
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ANNE LONGFIELD: being part of that solution.
303
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: Just picking up on that theme a bit
304
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: more about relationships, raising
305
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: awareness so we understand those
306
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: signs and of where to intervene.
307
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: But also you talked about — which I
308
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: love — that idea of youth workers
309
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: delivering that magic.
310
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: And the next question I was going to
311
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: ask was about support at the right
312
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: time and the right place to properly
313
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: prevent abuse.
314
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: And I had a question about what that
315
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: meant to properly invest in early
316
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: years, but maybe I could widen that a
317
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: bit more to what does that properly
318
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: mean to invest...
319
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: maybe you want to say something about
youth workers
320
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: there?
321
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ANNE LONGFIELD: Yeah, I would say...
322
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ANNE LONGFIELD: I mean, the book is essentially about
323
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ANNE LONGFIELD: teenagers. It's about how we
324
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ANNE LONGFIELD: provide better support for
325
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ANNE LONGFIELD: teenagers who are struggling
326
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ANNE LONGFIELD: and how we have high ambitions for their
327
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ANNE LONGFIELD: lives for them.
328
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ANNE LONGFIELD: But, you know, at the heart of that
329
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ANNE LONGFIELD: is a recognition that actually we
330
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ANNE LONGFIELD: need to start with that support from the
331
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ANNE LONGFIELD: absolute earliest weeks of life.
332
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ANNE LONGFIELD: Now, I spent a good slice
333
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ANNE LONGFIELD: of my life in the past arguing for and
334
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ANNE LONGFIELD: then helping develop and deliver Sure
335
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ANNE LONGFIELD: Start children centres.
336
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ANNE LONGFIELD: That for me was a vital
337
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ANNE LONGFIELD: part of the infrastructure that would help
338
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ANNE LONGFIELD: those families who needed a bit more help
339
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ANNE LONGFIELD: to be able to have the back-up,
340
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ANNE LONGFIELD: the advice, the relationships with support
341
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ANNE LONGFIELD: near to home to be able to
342
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ANNE LONGFIELD: bring up their children in the way they
343
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ANNE LONGFIELD: wanted to.
344
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ANNE LONGFIELD: My hopes and ambitions are that
345
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ANNE LONGFIELD: we have a rebuilt infrastructure
346
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ANNE LONGFIELD: for children and families from birth
347
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ANNE LONGFIELD: onwards in any new government.
348
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ANNE LONGFIELD: I don't care much about what it's called,
349
00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:25,899
ANNE LONGFIELD: but it is about place-based support like
350
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ANNE LONGFIELD: children centres. So helping kids
351
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ANNE LONGFIELD: get to the point where they can go into
352
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ANNE LONGFIELD: school with a bounce is really vital, and
353
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ANNE LONGFIELD: we know that the kids I'm talking about in
354
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ANNE LONGFIELD: this book are the ones that are largely
355
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ANNE LONGFIELD: going to start school behind their peers
356
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ANNE LONGFIELD: and stay behind their peers throughout.
357
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ANNE LONGFIELD: So enabling that not to happen, ensuring
358
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ANNE LONGFIELD: that they get the best support in terms of
359
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ANNE LONGFIELD: speech and language, in terms of emotional
360
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ANNE LONGFIELD: development, in terms of helping them
361
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ANNE LONGFIELD: get ahead at that moment of starting
362
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ANNE LONGFIELD: school is really important.
363
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ANNE LONGFIELD: Primary schools that have a strong
364
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ANNE LONGFIELD: focus on nurture, that work with families,
365
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ANNE LONGFIELD: that offer family support, that work with
366
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ANNE LONGFIELD: other services in the local community,
367
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ANNE LONGFIELD: including public services, to be able to
368
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ANNE LONGFIELD: offer a joined-up hub, if you like, of
369
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ANNE LONGFIELD: support any children and family centres
370
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ANNE LONGFIELD: or hubs of the future do need to work
371
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ANNE LONGFIELD: throughout primary school years
372
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ANNE LONGFIELD: and then into the teenage years too.
373
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ANNE LONGFIELD: I think we underuse the great
374
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ANNE LONGFIELD: assets that a school has in
375
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ANNE LONGFIELD: terms of its resource within the community
376
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ANNE LONGFIELD: after school, during school holidays.
377
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ANNE LONGFIELD: We're at a moment in time where breakfast
378
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ANNE LONGFIELD: clubs are back on the agenda and being
379
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ANNE LONGFIELD: discussed. I think these are all
380
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ANNE LONGFIELD: essential support platforms that can help
381
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ANNE LONGFIELD: families and help children in terms of
382
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ANNE LONGFIELD: reducing poverty, in terms of offering
383
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ANNE LONGFIELD: additional support, in terms of delivering
384
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ANNE LONGFIELD: really important things like nutritious
385
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ANNE LONGFIELD: meals and access to activities;
386
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ANNE LONGFIELD: and then following that through in terms
387
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ANNE LONGFIELD: of secondary schools, and increasing these
388
00:16:07,180 --> 00:16:10,929
ANNE LONGFIELD: children move into their secondary
389
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ANNE LONGFIELD: school, that importance of youth workers
390
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ANNE LONGFIELD: as one of those delivery agents to be
391
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ANNE LONGFIELD: around children's lives.
392
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ANNE LONGFIELD: Again, huge decline in the number of
393
00:16:21,370 --> 00:16:23,199
ANNE LONGFIELD: places for young people to be in their
394
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ANNE LONGFIELD: community over the last decade plus.
395
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ANNE LONGFIELD: Huge decrease in number of youth centres
396
00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,779
ANNE LONGFIELD: in the number of secondary schools who are
397
00:16:31,780 --> 00:16:34,449
ANNE LONGFIELD: operating after school, during school
398
00:16:34,450 --> 00:16:35,929
ANNE LONGFIELD: holidays and the like.
399
00:16:35,930 --> 00:16:39,789
ANNE LONGFIELD: But if we want to reintroduce
400
00:16:39,790 --> 00:16:42,369
ANNE LONGFIELD: a system of support that can be a system
401
00:16:42,370 --> 00:16:45,489
ANNE LONGFIELD: that responds to need at the point needed,
402
00:16:45,490 --> 00:16:47,469
ANNE LONGFIELD: then those are all elements that I think
403
00:16:48,730 --> 00:16:50,810
ANNE LONGFIELD: are required as part of that build-back.
404
00:16:51,850 --> 00:16:53,769
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: Just in terms of the strengthening of
405
00:16:53,770 --> 00:16:55,119
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: the workforce and, you know,
406
00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:56,619
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: particularly thinking from my
407
00:16:56,620 --> 00:16:58,329
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: perspective as a qualified social
408
00:16:58,330 --> 00:17:00,489
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: worker. What do you think we could do
409
00:17:00,490 --> 00:17:03,459
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: to ensure that, in terms of
410
00:17:03,460 --> 00:17:06,489
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: building that much more resilient
411
00:17:06,490 --> 00:17:09,939
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: and purposeful support from birth to
412
00:17:09,940 --> 00:17:11,679
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: adulthood, what do you think we could
413
00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:13,598
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: do, what would help to strengthen
414
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WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: that workforce? Because they're often
415
00:17:14,890 --> 00:17:16,879
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: doing the most critical work and
416
00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:18,578
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: they're not very well paid, the tools
417
00:17:18,579 --> 00:17:20,489
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: might not be... you know, I just
418
00:17:20,490 --> 00:17:22,019
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: wondered what your thoughts might be
419
00:17:22,020 --> 00:17:23,098
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: on that.
420
00:17:23,099 --> 00:17:25,259
ANNE LONGFIELD: Absolutely. So I think at the moment, as
421
00:17:25,260 --> 00:17:28,318
ANNE LONGFIELD: you say, we've got a lot of very skilled
422
00:17:28,319 --> 00:17:31,499
ANNE LONGFIELD: people who would delivering really vital
423
00:17:31,500 --> 00:17:33,959
ANNE LONGFIELD: work that can be make or break for
424
00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:35,849
ANNE LONGFIELD: children and their families.
425
00:17:35,850 --> 00:17:37,469
ANNE LONGFIELD: But often they're doing it
426
00:17:39,060 --> 00:17:41,009
ANNE LONGFIELD: without the recognition of the system
427
00:17:41,010 --> 00:17:44,039
ANNE LONGFIELD: properly or without the
428
00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:46,409
ANNE LONGFIELD: professional kind of wrapping that you
429
00:17:46,410 --> 00:17:48,209
ANNE LONGFIELD: might expect for something that important,
430
00:17:48,210 --> 00:17:51,059
ANNE LONGFIELD: or indeed the salary within that.
431
00:17:51,060 --> 00:17:54,599
ANNE LONGFIELD: And there isn't a clear pathway
432
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:58,019
ANNE LONGFIELD: in. There isn't a clear packaging,
433
00:17:58,020 --> 00:18:00,959
ANNE LONGFIELD: if you like, of the range of workforce
434
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,049
ANNE LONGFIELD: roles that are working in this
435
00:18:04,050 --> 00:18:06,179
ANNE LONGFIELD: area. That sounds a little bit convoluted,
436
00:18:06,180 --> 00:18:08,459
ANNE LONGFIELD: but as an example: so when you look at
437
00:18:08,460 --> 00:18:10,349
ANNE LONGFIELD: young people, when you've got some people
438
00:18:10,350 --> 00:18:13,019
ANNE LONGFIELD: who are doing brilliant work in pastoral
439
00:18:13,020 --> 00:18:15,719
ANNE LONGFIELD: care in schools, you've got some that are
440
00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,689
ANNE LONGFIELD: working in the community as youth workers
441
00:18:18,690 --> 00:18:20,969
ANNE LONGFIELD: or indeed in schools, and that's great.
442
00:18:20,970 --> 00:18:22,949
ANNE LONGFIELD: You've got some people who are working as
443
00:18:22,950 --> 00:18:25,499
ANNE LONGFIELD: part of youth offending teams, doing vital
444
00:18:25,500 --> 00:18:28,649
ANNE LONGFIELD: work. You've got some people who are
445
00:18:28,650 --> 00:18:30,569
ANNE LONGFIELD: doing the kind of supportive work around
446
00:18:30,570 --> 00:18:33,629
ANNE LONGFIELD: families, again, that is really important.
447
00:18:33,630 --> 00:18:36,989
ANNE LONGFIELD: What you don't have is any way
448
00:18:36,990 --> 00:18:39,899
ANNE LONGFIELD: of bringing all of those interventions
449
00:18:39,900 --> 00:18:43,739
ANNE LONGFIELD: together into a recognised
450
00:18:43,740 --> 00:18:47,279
ANNE LONGFIELD: group of professions or professionals
451
00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,279
ANNE LONGFIELD: that can have the
452
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:52,859
ANNE LONGFIELD: recognition and status needed about the
453
00:18:52,860 --> 00:18:54,209
ANNE LONGFIELD: importance of that work.
454
00:18:54,210 --> 00:18:57,379
ANNE LONGFIELD: Now, I think, if you went back 10 or
455
00:18:57,380 --> 00:18:59,909
ANNE LONGFIELD: 15 years, there were pathways towards
456
00:18:59,910 --> 00:19:02,579
ANNE LONGFIELD: that: a more coherent workforce strategy
457
00:19:02,580 --> 00:19:05,519
ANNE LONGFIELD: for those working with children; a more
458
00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:08,819
ANNE LONGFIELD: developed pathway and climbing frame
459
00:19:08,820 --> 00:19:11,099
ANNE LONGFIELD: between different elements of the
460
00:19:11,100 --> 00:19:13,439
ANNE LONGFIELD: professions; a more established
461
00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,739
ANNE LONGFIELD: understanding that actually pastoral care
462
00:19:16,740 --> 00:19:19,709
ANNE LONGFIELD: and support in a slightly less
463
00:19:19,710 --> 00:19:22,859
ANNE LONGFIELD: formal way than maybe social work had
464
00:19:22,860 --> 00:19:26,219
ANNE LONGFIELD: huge value and a connection into that.
465
00:19:26,220 --> 00:19:29,279
ANNE LONGFIELD: Those, I think, have fallen away somewhat
466
00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:33,269
ANNE LONGFIELD: in the stresses and strains and challenges
467
00:19:33,270 --> 00:19:35,129
ANNE LONGFIELD: of those services being under huge
468
00:19:35,130 --> 00:19:38,489
ANNE LONGFIELD: pressure themselves, and a rising
469
00:19:38,490 --> 00:19:41,669
ANNE LONGFIELD: threshold for support often driven
470
00:19:41,670 --> 00:19:43,628
ANNE LONGFIELD: by cost challenges and the like.
471
00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,129
ANNE LONGFIELD: And those have obviously driven a lot of
472
00:19:47,130 --> 00:19:49,169
ANNE LONGFIELD: those services towards the high end of
473
00:19:49,170 --> 00:19:52,709
ANNE LONGFIELD: acute response and acute need and crisis.
474
00:19:52,710 --> 00:19:55,109
ANNE LONGFIELD: I think it is established and everyone
475
00:19:55,110 --> 00:19:58,049
ANNE LONGFIELD: knows that if we're really going to get to
476
00:19:58,050 --> 00:20:00,509
ANNE LONGFIELD: the point where we're able to prevent some
477
00:20:00,510 --> 00:20:02,159
ANNE LONGFIELD: of these things developing, we are going
478
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,799
ANNE LONGFIELD: to have to work earlier in the process.
479
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,189
ANNE LONGFIELD: We are going to have to provide that
480
00:20:08,190 --> 00:20:10,649
ANNE LONGFIELD: broader early intervention preventative
481
00:20:10,650 --> 00:20:12,989
ANNE LONGFIELD: work that gets alongside kids and gets
482
00:20:12,990 --> 00:20:14,939
ANNE LONGFIELD: alongside families again.
483
00:20:14,940 --> 00:20:17,699
ANNE LONGFIELD: That will need some more investment in
484
00:20:17,700 --> 00:20:20,639
ANNE LONGFIELD: that area. But we all know that investment
485
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:22,469
ANNE LONGFIELD: in that area is just a fraction of the
486
00:20:22,470 --> 00:20:24,989
ANNE LONGFIELD: cost of what crises costs in the end.
487
00:20:24,990 --> 00:20:27,029
ANNE LONGFIELD: So there's work to be done there.
488
00:20:27,030 --> 00:20:28,769
ANNE LONGFIELD: There's a job to be done there.
489
00:20:28,770 --> 00:20:31,319
ANNE LONGFIELD: One of the things that I've been involved
490
00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,679
ANNE LONGFIELD: in over recent months is discussions
491
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,769
ANNE LONGFIELD: about how we can build a pathway
492
00:20:37,770 --> 00:20:40,409
ANNE LONGFIELD: to qualification for a group of youth
493
00:20:40,410 --> 00:20:42,959
ANNE LONGFIELD: workers that potentially are working
494
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:44,849
ANNE LONGFIELD: alongside social workers in quite a
495
00:20:44,850 --> 00:20:46,739
ANNE LONGFIELD: diagnostic way.
496
00:20:46,740 --> 00:20:49,439
ANNE LONGFIELD: Bring in, of course, all the youth work
497
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,229
ANNE LONGFIELD: principles and approaches to that work
498
00:20:52,230 --> 00:20:54,929
ANNE LONGFIELD: with young people, but also do it in a way
499
00:20:54,930 --> 00:20:57,179
ANNE LONGFIELD: that can be part of and complement that
500
00:20:57,180 --> 00:21:00,449
ANNE LONGFIELD: wider social care reach and approach.
501
00:21:00,450 --> 00:21:02,309
ANNE LONGFIELD: And I think there's an area there
502
00:21:03,870 --> 00:21:06,539
ANNE LONGFIELD: that we need to build and concentrate on
503
00:21:06,540 --> 00:21:09,059
ANNE LONGFIELD: in coming months and years.
504
00:21:09,060 --> 00:21:11,399
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: I've picked up about intervening in,
505
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,039
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: you know, much earlier upstream and
506
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:15,599
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: strengthening the workforce.
507
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:17,279
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: I was just curious — because it also
508
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:18,749
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: took me back to the book — you give
509
00:21:18,750 --> 00:21:22,529
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: so many great examples of where
510
00:21:22,530 --> 00:21:24,029
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: there is positive work going on.
511
00:21:24,030 --> 00:21:25,709
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: So I don't want to give the impression
that
512
00:21:25,710 --> 00:21:26,710
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: it's not.
513
00:21:27,360 --> 00:21:29,159
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: So I just wondered, was there
514
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,319
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: anything in particular that stood
515
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:33,719
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: out, a particular project or...?
516
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:35,699
ANNE LONGFIELD: Yeah, I guess my starting point in all
517
00:21:35,700 --> 00:21:37,559
ANNE LONGFIELD: this is that it doesn't have to be like
518
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:38,849
ANNE LONGFIELD: this.
519
00:21:38,850 --> 00:21:41,969
ANNE LONGFIELD: There are fantastic example where either
520
00:21:41,970 --> 00:21:44,729
ANNE LONGFIELD: brilliant individuals or great projects
521
00:21:44,730 --> 00:21:47,789
ANNE LONGFIELD: are managing to show that it is possible
522
00:21:47,790 --> 00:21:49,469
ANNE LONGFIELD: to deliver things in a different way.
523
00:21:49,470 --> 00:21:51,899
ANNE LONGFIELD: But often, especially with local
524
00:21:51,900 --> 00:21:53,699
ANNE LONGFIELD: organisations, you know, they're living on
525
00:21:53,700 --> 00:21:55,559
ANNE LONGFIELD: short-term funding, they're living on not
526
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:56,909
ANNE LONGFIELD: enough funding.
527
00:21:56,910 --> 00:21:59,939
ANNE LONGFIELD: It's relying on a small team
528
00:21:59,940 --> 00:22:02,009
ANNE LONGFIELD: or one individual that's making all that
529
00:22:02,010 --> 00:22:04,679
ANNE LONGFIELD: difference, there's no way the capacity to
530
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,499
ANNE LONGFIELD: make this mainstream and make this normal.
531
00:22:07,500 --> 00:22:10,469
ANNE LONGFIELD: So my hope is that in
532
00:22:10,470 --> 00:22:12,179
ANNE LONGFIELD: the future we notice that sort of thing
533
00:22:12,180 --> 00:22:14,429
ANNE LONGFIELD: when it's not happening, rather than we
534
00:22:14,430 --> 00:22:17,219
ANNE LONGFIELD: notice it when it is happening, because
535
00:22:17,220 --> 00:22:20,209
ANNE LONGFIELD: hopefully it becomes part of the way
536
00:22:20,210 --> 00:22:22,969
ANNE LONGFIELD: we do things. But some of the inspiration,
537
00:22:22,970 --> 00:22:26,539
ANNE LONGFIELD: well, I mean thinking about schools:
538
00:22:26,540 --> 00:22:28,609
ANNE LONGFIELD: I talk in the book a lot about the
539
00:22:28,610 --> 00:22:31,069
ANNE LONGFIELD: challenge to the education system to be
540
00:22:31,070 --> 00:22:34,219
ANNE LONGFIELD: inclusive, to work very hard to
541
00:22:34,220 --> 00:22:37,429
ANNE LONGFIELD: keep children in school, to support
542
00:22:37,430 --> 00:22:39,829
ANNE LONGFIELD: young people when there are signs that
543
00:22:39,830 --> 00:22:42,919
ANNE LONGFIELD: they might be at risk of exclusion.
544
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,179
ANNE LONGFIELD: There are some great examples of schools.
545
00:22:45,180 --> 00:22:48,649
ANNE LONGFIELD: There's a school in South London
546
00:22:48,650 --> 00:22:50,299
ANNE LONGFIELD: next to the Old Kent Road — it's is a
primary
547
00:22:50,300 --> 00:22:53,209
ANNE LONGFIELD: school actually — called Surrey Square,
548
00:22:53,210 --> 00:22:56,749
ANNE LONGFIELD: that has food banks, that has
549
00:22:56,750 --> 00:23:00,079
ANNE LONGFIELD: clothes banks, that has really developed
550
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:01,550
ANNE LONGFIELD: work with parents.
551
00:23:03,110 --> 00:23:04,819
ANNE LONGFIELD: There's been a family worker there for a
552
00:23:04,820 --> 00:23:07,576
ANNE LONGFIELD: long time. They do deep work
553
00:23:09,500 --> 00:23:11,359
ANNE LONGFIELD: to understand the needs of children and
554
00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:12,679
ANNE LONGFIELD: families in the area.
555
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,919
ANNE LONGFIELD: They even go along to the local council
556
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,199
ANNE LONGFIELD: and the housing department with families
557
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,169
ANNE LONGFIELD: to help them argue their case for
558
00:23:21,170 --> 00:23:24,109
ANNE LONGFIELD: better housing or some housing
559
00:23:24,110 --> 00:23:25,789
ANNE LONGFIELD: in some awful cases.
560
00:23:25,790 --> 00:23:28,069
ANNE LONGFIELD: You walk into that school, you know it's
561
00:23:28,070 --> 00:23:30,859
ANNE LONGFIELD: about the community. You know it's about
562
00:23:30,860 --> 00:23:32,959
ANNE LONGFIELD: them sticking by that community and doing
563
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,839
ANNE LONGFIELD: everything they can as an anchor
564
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,389
ANNE LONGFIELD: organisation in the community.
565
00:23:38,390 --> 00:23:40,429
ANNE LONGFIELD: A great example... Well, there's some
566
00:23:40,430 --> 00:23:42,809
ANNE LONGFIELD: fantastic examples of work going on in
567
00:23:42,810 --> 00:23:45,739
ANNE LONGFIELD: A&E, in some of the most awful
568
00:23:45,740 --> 00:23:49,039
ANNE LONGFIELD: situations. Redthread's work with girls,
569
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,813
ANNE LONGFIELD: really inspiring work in some A&Es, again
570
00:23:51,814 --> 00:23:54,829
ANNE LONGFIELD: where they build relationships with
571
00:23:54,830 --> 00:23:58,129
ANNE LONGFIELD: young people over time and really
572
00:23:58,130 --> 00:24:00,859
ANNE LONGFIELD: help support those young people to a
573
00:24:00,860 --> 00:24:02,249
ANNE LONGFIELD: different place.
574
00:24:02,250 --> 00:24:04,549
ANNE LONGFIELD: Football Beyond Borders, working with
575
00:24:04,550 --> 00:24:06,379
ANNE LONGFIELD: children in schools — young people in
576
00:24:06,380 --> 00:24:07,879
ANNE LONGFIELD: schools at risk of exclusion.
577
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,489
ANNE LONGFIELD: 97% success rate of keeping them in
578
00:24:10,490 --> 00:24:13,069
ANNE LONGFIELD: schools when they do that.
579
00:24:13,070 --> 00:24:15,709
ANNE LONGFIELD: You look around the country, all over
580
00:24:15,710 --> 00:24:17,711
ANNE LONGFIELD: there are individual projects and schools
581
00:24:18,980 --> 00:24:21,079
ANNE LONGFIELD: doing fantastic things.
582
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:25,039
ANNE LONGFIELD: But every one of those is working
583
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,339
ANNE LONGFIELD: probably against all odds because
584
00:24:28,340 --> 00:24:30,349
ANNE LONGFIELD: they're working without the support or
585
00:24:30,350 --> 00:24:31,909
ANNE LONGFIELD: recognition they need.
586
00:24:31,910 --> 00:24:33,739
ANNE LONGFIELD: Imagine— I come away from every one of
587
00:24:33,740 --> 00:24:36,349
ANNE LONGFIELD: those just saying, 'imagine if we have
588
00:24:36,350 --> 00:24:39,259
ANNE LONGFIELD: this everywhere'. And it is within the
589
00:24:39,260 --> 00:24:41,829
ANNE LONGFIELD: range of possibilities to have those kind
590
00:24:41,830 --> 00:24:44,449
ANNE LONGFIELD: of approaches and those things everywhere.
591
00:24:44,450 --> 00:24:46,639
ANNE LONGFIELD: Hence, the book makes the case for why we
592
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:47,868
ANNE LONGFIELD: should.
593
00:24:47,869 --> 00:24:49,429
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: Thank you. I could see, I mean, the
audience
594
00:24:49,430 --> 00:24:51,199
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: won't see this, but I can see how much
595
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,089
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: that lit you up describing those
596
00:24:53,090 --> 00:24:54,499
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: initiatives.
597
00:24:54,500 --> 00:24:56,209
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: That's such great work that does take
598
00:24:56,210 --> 00:24:58,909
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: place under the most difficult and
599
00:24:58,910 --> 00:25:01,309
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: pressing of circumstances.
600
00:25:01,310 --> 00:25:03,559
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: Let me just move on a bit more.
601
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:05,299
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: One of the things that that struck me
602
00:25:05,300 --> 00:25:06,859
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: when reading the book was that a lot
603
00:25:06,860 --> 00:25:09,469
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: about what you talk about refers to
604
00:25:09,470 --> 00:25:12,229
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: boys, and particularly boys from
605
00:25:12,230 --> 00:25:14,509
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: minoritised communities.
606
00:25:14,510 --> 00:25:16,279
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: Just curious to know whether that was
607
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,279
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: a conscious decision or borne out by
608
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:20,869
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: the research process that you
609
00:25:20,870 --> 00:25:22,699
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: undertook to write the book?
610
00:25:22,700 --> 00:25:25,009
ANNE LONGFIELD: I think the answer to that is both.
611
00:25:25,010 --> 00:25:27,769
ANNE LONGFIELD: We knew from the evidence that already
612
00:25:27,770 --> 00:25:30,829
ANNE LONGFIELD: existed. You look at any of the evidence,
613
00:25:30,830 --> 00:25:33,889
ANNE LONGFIELD: and the huge disproportionality
614
00:25:33,890 --> 00:25:36,949
ANNE LONGFIELD: of involvement of especially
615
00:25:36,950 --> 00:25:39,709
ANNE LONGFIELD: Black boys in so many of the aspects that
616
00:25:39,710 --> 00:25:41,539
ANNE LONGFIELD: we were talking about is just very clear
617
00:25:41,540 --> 00:25:44,089
ANNE LONGFIELD: to see. We'd also taken great attention of
618
00:25:44,090 --> 00:25:45,709
ANNE LONGFIELD: David Lammy's work around
619
00:25:45,710 --> 00:25:47,389
ANNE LONGFIELD: disproportionality in the criminal justice
620
00:25:47,390 --> 00:25:50,479
ANNE LONGFIELD: system. So many messages there that we
621
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,659
ANNE LONGFIELD: were very, very aware of.
622
00:25:53,660 --> 00:25:56,869
ANNE LONGFIELD: But again, you don't
623
00:25:56,870 --> 00:26:00,439
ANNE LONGFIELD: have to look for long at the statistics
624
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:02,239
ANNE LONGFIELD: that you find out or the conversations you
625
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:06,079
ANNE LONGFIELD: have to know that
626
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,259
ANNE LONGFIELD: this is something which is in plain sight.
627
00:26:09,260 --> 00:26:12,289
ANNE LONGFIELD: There is huge disproportionality here
628
00:26:12,290 --> 00:26:15,409
ANNE LONGFIELD: which leads you to then ask, well, at what
629
00:26:15,410 --> 00:26:18,799
ANNE LONGFIELD: point do we then recognise
630
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,769
ANNE LONGFIELD: and understand that the systems we have
631
00:26:21,770 --> 00:26:23,269
ANNE LONGFIELD: aren't working for these kids?
632
00:26:23,270 --> 00:26:25,759
ANNE LONGFIELD: Often they're working against them.
633
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,099
ANNE LONGFIELD: And why aren't the signs — whether you
634
00:26:28,100 --> 00:26:31,159
ANNE LONGFIELD: wanted to call it racial bias
635
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,829
ANNE LONGFIELD: or whatever within the system — why aren't
636
00:26:33,830 --> 00:26:35,539
ANNE LONGFIELD: we more alert to this and why aren't we
637
00:26:35,540 --> 00:26:37,219
ANNE LONGFIELD: doing something about this?
638
00:26:37,220 --> 00:26:40,129
ANNE LONGFIELD: So if you look at children in care,
639
00:26:40,130 --> 00:26:41,659
ANNE LONGFIELD: if you look at children who are being
640
00:26:41,660 --> 00:26:43,129
ANNE LONGFIELD: excluded from school, if you look at
641
00:26:43,130 --> 00:26:44,449
ANNE LONGFIELD: children in YOIs (Young Offender
Institutions), if
642
00:26:44,450 --> 00:26:47,509
ANNE LONGFIELD: you look at young people who are
643
00:26:47,510 --> 00:26:50,569
ANNE LONGFIELD: part of the wider justice system, you
644
00:26:50,570 --> 00:26:52,129
ANNE LONGFIELD: can see there's an enormous
645
00:26:52,130 --> 00:26:55,069
ANNE LONGFIELD: disproportionality of boys in
646
00:26:55,070 --> 00:26:58,039
ANNE LONGFIELD: the system and Black boys as well.
647
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,219
ANNE LONGFIELD: So that's a major theme throughout
648
00:27:01,220 --> 00:27:03,919
ANNE LONGFIELD: the book and one that we believe, and I
649
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,769
ANNE LONGFIELD: believe, needs huge attention.
650
00:27:07,999 --> 00:27:10,219
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: We're nearly at the end of our time.
651
00:27:10,220 --> 00:27:13,579
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: But just to conclude, if you could do
652
00:27:13,580 --> 00:27:16,429
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: three things to improve the lot for
653
00:27:16,430 --> 00:27:17,627
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: children, what would you do and why?
654
00:27:19,010 --> 00:27:21,949
ANNE LONGFIELD: Well, I mean, the big thing
655
00:27:21,950 --> 00:27:25,819
ANNE LONGFIELD: is really to
656
00:27:25,820 --> 00:27:29,329
ANNE LONGFIELD: persuade our society, our government,
657
00:27:29,330 --> 00:27:32,419
ANNE LONGFIELD: that actually, as a country,
658
00:27:32,420 --> 00:27:36,079
ANNE LONGFIELD: we have choices that we can make
659
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,169
ANNE LONGFIELD: about how we value children.
660
00:27:39,170 --> 00:27:40,729
ANNE LONGFIELD: If you look at some Scandinavian
661
00:27:40,730 --> 00:27:43,459
ANNE LONGFIELD: countries, decades ago they decided that
662
00:27:43,460 --> 00:27:45,559
ANNE LONGFIELD: children were an important part of our
663
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,719
ANNE LONGFIELD: population, that if we helped children
664
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,389
ANNE LONGFIELD: thrive, then actually we stand the chance
665
00:27:50,390 --> 00:27:53,539
ANNE LONGFIELD: of helping our society thrive, which
666
00:27:53,540 --> 00:27:55,609
ANNE LONGFIELD: has, of course, benefits not only for
667
00:27:55,610 --> 00:27:57,259
ANNE LONGFIELD: those children, but in terms of social
668
00:27:57,260 --> 00:27:58,849
ANNE LONGFIELD: issues and in terms of the economy,
669
00:27:58,850 --> 00:28:00,199
ANNE LONGFIELD: because we all want an economy that's
670
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,929
ANNE LONGFIELD: going to be active and productive and all
671
00:28:02,930 --> 00:28:04,459
ANNE LONGFIELD: the rest of it.
672
00:28:04,460 --> 00:28:07,789
ANNE LONGFIELD: We haven't almost dared to go there.
673
00:28:07,790 --> 00:28:12,199
ANNE LONGFIELD: That feels far too interventionist.
674
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,289
ANNE LONGFIELD: Well, I think, during
675
00:28:15,290 --> 00:28:18,259
ANNE LONGFIELD: the pandemic, our support systems for
676
00:28:18,260 --> 00:28:19,999
ANNE LONGFIELD: children were given a good test and I
677
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:21,559
ANNE LONGFIELD: don't think they fared very well.
678
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,829
ANNE LONGFIELD: So I think there's a moment
679
00:28:24,830 --> 00:28:27,709
ANNE LONGFIELD: here where we can look to recommit
680
00:28:27,710 --> 00:28:30,889
ANNE LONGFIELD: ourselves to kids in a way that says
681
00:28:30,890 --> 00:28:32,479
ANNE LONGFIELD: as a nation, we think they're important.
682
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,789
ANNE LONGFIELD: We need to put them first. Next to that is
683
00:28:34,790 --> 00:28:37,819
ANNE LONGFIELD: that when you do that, you think
684
00:28:37,820 --> 00:28:40,669
ANNE LONGFIELD: about children when you're thinking about
685
00:28:40,670 --> 00:28:44,209
ANNE LONGFIELD: your neighbourhood; the space that's
686
00:28:44,210 --> 00:28:46,399
ANNE LONGFIELD: taken up for children or given to
687
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,579
ANNE LONGFIELD: children; the facilities that are there
688
00:28:49,580 --> 00:28:51,019
ANNE LONGFIELD: that are safe for children; the way we
689
00:28:51,020 --> 00:28:54,259
ANNE LONGFIELD: design our homes, especially social
690
00:28:54,260 --> 00:28:57,019
ANNE LONGFIELD: housing; the way that we design our parks,
691
00:28:57,020 --> 00:28:58,932
ANNE LONGFIELD: the way that we design our roads or
692
00:29:00,020 --> 00:29:02,749
ANNE LONGFIELD: non-roads, our public space, essentially.
693
00:29:02,750 --> 00:29:06,109
ANNE LONGFIELD: Imagine if we designed our area, our
694
00:29:06,110 --> 00:29:08,869
ANNE LONGFIELD: planning for public space in a way that
695
00:29:08,870 --> 00:29:09,870
ANNE LONGFIELD: was child-friendly.
696
00:29:10,670 --> 00:29:13,999
ANNE LONGFIELD: I would love us to consider
697
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,889
ANNE LONGFIELD: and put high on the list — and require
698
00:29:16,890 --> 00:29:20,059
ANNE LONGFIELD: even — children's needs to be built into
699
00:29:20,060 --> 00:29:22,259
ANNE LONGFIELD: all of the way that we design our country
700
00:29:22,260 --> 00:29:24,349
ANNE LONGFIELD: and the way it's established.
701
00:29:24,350 --> 00:29:26,899
ANNE LONGFIELD: Let's put forward places where children
702
00:29:26,900 --> 00:29:30,469
ANNE LONGFIELD: can safely play, be with each other,
703
00:29:30,470 --> 00:29:33,439
ANNE LONGFIELD: be children, enjoy childhood safely.
704
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,469
ANNE LONGFIELD: The third is really to have
705
00:29:36,470 --> 00:29:38,989
ANNE LONGFIELD: an overriding commitment with the engine
706
00:29:38,990 --> 00:29:42,019
ANNE LONGFIELD: of government behind it to give all
707
00:29:42,020 --> 00:29:44,869
ANNE LONGFIELD: our kids the best chance possible and be
708
00:29:44,870 --> 00:29:48,109
ANNE LONGFIELD: ambitious for all our kids for
709
00:29:48,110 --> 00:29:50,989
ANNE LONGFIELD: a positive childhood and a positive
710
00:29:50,990 --> 00:29:54,769
ANNE LONGFIELD: scenario in terms of of our adult life.
711
00:29:54,770 --> 00:29:57,799
ANNE LONGFIELD: We know that childhood and experience
712
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,289
ANNE LONGFIELD: of childhood sticks with you for life,
713
00:30:00,290 --> 00:30:01,669
ANNE LONGFIELD: good or bad.
714
00:30:01,670 --> 00:30:04,279
ANNE LONGFIELD: We have choices about the way we help
715
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,429
ANNE LONGFIELD: children thrive as children and help
716
00:30:07,430 --> 00:30:10,879
ANNE LONGFIELD: them get that best start into life.
717
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:12,649
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: That's fantastic. It's fantastic.
718
00:30:12,650 --> 00:30:14,899
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: And I just love that idea, that sense
719
00:30:14,900 --> 00:30:17,719
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: of, in a way, quite revolutionary
720
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,519
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: perspective and ambition that we have
721
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:21,979
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: for children which has come through
722
00:30:21,980 --> 00:30:24,379
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: there. And I love that idea about the
723
00:30:24,380 --> 00:30:26,479
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: design and the lens; let's look at
724
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,489
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: the way we live through that
725
00:30:28,490 --> 00:30:30,012
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: perspective.
726
00:30:30,013 --> 00:30:31,459
ANNE LONGFIELD: It's about being ambitious.
727
00:30:31,460 --> 00:30:34,579
ANNE LONGFIELD: It's about, you know, valuing young lives,
728
00:30:34,580 --> 00:30:37,039
ANNE LONGFIELD: but also being ambitious for what we could
729
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,409
ANNE LONGFIELD: do for those children, but also for what
730
00:30:39,410 --> 00:30:41,539
ANNE LONGFIELD: we want for our country. Why can't our
731
00:30:41,540 --> 00:30:43,069
ANNE LONGFIELD: country be the best place to grow up?
732
00:30:43,070 --> 00:30:45,619
ANNE LONGFIELD: We could make it so, and obviously, in my
733
00:30:45,620 --> 00:30:47,119
ANNE LONGFIELD: view, we should.
734
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,199
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: What a great place to stop.
735
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,019
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: I'd just like to thank you so much
736
00:30:51,020 --> 00:30:53,839
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: for for talking about 'Young Lives,
737
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:55,249
WESLEY POWLEY-BAKER: Big Ambitions'.
738
00:30:55,250 --> 00:30:56,250
ANNE LONGFIELD: Thanks very much.
739
00:31:00,170 --> 00:31:02,539
OUTRO: Thanks for listening to this NSPCC Learning
740
00:31:02,540 --> 00:31:03,829
OUTRO: Podcast.
741
00:31:03,830 --> 00:31:06,469
OUTRO: At the time of recording, this episode's content
742
00:31:06,470 --> 00:31:09,109
OUTRO: was up to date, but the world of safeguarding and
743
00:31:09,110 --> 00:31:10,238
OUTRO: child protection is ever-changing.
744
00:31:11,450 --> 00:31:13,519
OUTRO: So if you're looking for the most current
745
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,249
OUTRO: safeguarding and child protection training,
746
00:31:16,250 --> 00:31:19,249
OUTRO: information or resources, please visit
747
00:31:19,250 --> 00:31:21,561
OUTRO: our website for professionals at
748
00:31:21,562 --> 00:31:22,562
OUTRO: nspcc.org.uk/learning.