Britt: why the fuck do we even celebrate Halloween? Outside of children knocking on doors and asking for candy
steph: Okay, fair. And drinking.
Britt: where does all of this come from? why do we
steph: Okay.
Britt: carve pumpkins and bob for apples and vodka?
steph: Right. Where does all of Halloween come from?
Britt: w
steph: the answer is just Samhain. All of these things, except for bobbing for apples in vodka, comes from Samhain Now you say that's a European perspective. Yeah, Yeah. Hill.
Britt: Hey Steph. Dude, it's weird that we're like in the same city and how little I see you.
steph: I also don't have a car. We can imagine what it would be like if I had my own transportation. Yeah, mm, because maybe
Britt: Such is life. Yeah, I think that's the difficulty. Yeah, it would definitely
steph: I would be at your door. Yeah.
Britt: We would have a lot more flexibility for sure. Trick-or-treating. I love let's tell tell the listeners, tell the people, Steph, what your children said when you mentioned leaving before Halloween. One child specifically, the
steph: Well, when I mentioned leaving
Britt: oldest.
steph: I mean is this the what do you think we're gonna do? Dress up and go from go to people wait, what do you think strangers, what
Britt: Go knock on people's doors and ask them for candy.
steph: do you think we're gonna do? Just go knock on people's doors? Yeah, and ask for candy? We're not gonna do that.
Britt: What kinda crazy people do you think we are?
steph: Yeah. Okay. My kids don't know that we're recording now, so I they're th what are you using a stool for? so I they're th what are you using a stool for? Yeah, Kate Sullivan, please move the other stool back. And I need you guys to get out and get in. In, out, no microwave. let's function. Mila move quicker. This is molasses. Move the chair, please. finish loops, Yeah. they have now I I do have to a I well now I have to say caveat. that was at the beginning of our trip. now they definitely would be like, yeah, let's go. Cause they're, you know, every time we go to the grocery store, they're of getting I mean, you can definitely see how Propaganda works. Propaganda and yeah, the whole marketing gig here in America.
Britt: The moment your kids start school in America, that your your attempts to keep them away from McDonald's and candy and soda, gone. If you're in public school, that shit's gone. You'll you've lost all hope and all control.
steph: Yeah, that's funny they even say it's funny you say McDonald's because they were definitely Mama what's that place with like the the yellow sign that looks like mountains? Yeah. And I was like, Woo
Britt: Don't teach them about the golden arches.
steph: yeah, I I I I felt safe. I felt safe and And not necessarily that I was doing a good job, but I felt safe that's cool that my kids don't know McDonald's. So
Britt: Yeah. Yeah.
steph: Yeah, so Halloween.
Britt: We also You, though, dislike this holiday.
steph: I sure do.
Britt: Deeply.
steph: Yeah, I liked I was always a witch for Halloween as a child. So that was funny.
Britt: Or a black cat.
steph: Or a black kitty, so everything makes sense in the end.
Britt: It's funny how much colour you
steph: yeah, you remember John would God, do you remember he would just There might be some people out there listening. Hello to you, you know who you are. he would just eat one piece of candy a day and keep that shit until like the next calendar year.
Britt: In that fucking lockbox. Do you
steph: Yeah of course.
Britt: And some of it would go in the freezer, depending on what it was. Soap particular.
steph: Yeah, yeah, sure. The little bars, the actual candy bars. Yeah, sure. yeah, God.
Britt: One piece of chocolate a day is very John.
steph: and I think and we would always you know, I sure we would always come home and like do our bartering stuff.
Britt: Totally. I think all siblings do
steph: Yeah.
Britt: that.
steph: Yeah. I mean it's kind of the glory
Britt: do you know it's funny? My child naturally always, when we were in the realm of trick-or-treating,
steph: Yeah.
Britt: always ended up saving candy and had candy into Halloween of the next year. No conversation about his uncle. He just did it. Yeah. We also end up with, like,
steph: that's weird. Yeah, th okay, that is cute. one. So
Britt: Yeah, here's my thing is that I feel like Halloween for adults. Well, at a certain point, Halloween, the idea or this foundation of Halloween in America at least, gets really lost. if I'm if I'm over trick-or-treating as a teenager, I'm
steph: There's nothing to do.
Britt: R there's nothing of quality to do. Like teenagers don't have Halloween parties these days. They go out and they cause a ruckus or whatever.
steph: Yeah. I th that hold on, can I say something about that? 'Cause
Britt: But then e
steph: the girls watched Hocus Pocus the other day.
Britt: Classic.
steph: Yeah. Well it's a classic and they've definitely the two eldest have definitely been like, we don't want to watch cartoons anymore. And I was like, okay, Goonies, Hogus Bogus,
Britt: They're at that age for sure.
steph: Uncle Bach. Yeah. Yeah, so I saw you see the teenagers like stealing candy and stuff. It was just really funny for me to kind of relive a scene like that and be like, what? Like as like a me now? Like what jerks? And What a drag. Yeah, because it makes me also think of my boys in high school. And yeah, there were M80s in porta potties. Okay. Not
Britt: Totally.
steph: not my idea. I'm not the one that did it at all, but I was definitely witness to and somehow an accomplice to like destroying property.
Britt: Y listen, I was an accomplice to some dry ice situations that I don't even want to talk about, so
steph: that makes me think like the last time I brought up, I forget if it was ultimately in the episode, but I brought up bobbing for apples and vodka, and you were like, have you done that? I I yeah, it made me think like, well, I have some like luge incidences at university that definitely involved like unsanitary situations just to get alcohol in the system. Which was also a Halloween weekend. So just trying to bring this
Britt: Course.
steph: all together at one point. I I too enjoyed It was less enjoying Halloween. And I think what you're getting at, yeah, what do you what else? I after you're trick-or-treating and you're like, Weeee then you're just down for the party.
Britt: Yeah. Exactly that. Exactly that. Then if there's if you don't have somebody who gets really into it and throws the party or these kinds of things, it's it's
steph: Yeah. I'm also I'm way not into like getting jumped, you know, and feeling like it's fun. And by jumped I mean like spooked and scared. Like I don't I I can't sneeze without pissing myself.
Britt: my God, I was like, what are you talking about?
steph: Yeah, like haunted houses and shit. Like I
Britt: That is a vernacular that nobody uses.
steph: Which one?
Britt: Getting jumped.
steph: Well, because this is another thing you mentioned that yeah, people so I I'm not necessarily into that. I'm into real ghost stories and you know, get me in an old house in Everett and start telling me what's happened to your family in there. I wanna hear that stuff. I don't I don't I
Britt: Sure.
steph: don't need to have someone jump from behind a wall and like zom that dressed up as a zombie and shit.
Britt: Yeah, I think there's a difference between tension and f anxiety based fear versus
steph: Mm.
Britt: like jump scares.
steph: Yeah.
Britt: I think that as a kid you like sure, as kids getting into a costume, getting a bunch of candy is always a great time. I think that you rode the energy of everybody at Halloween time and that's what you engaged with, not so much the the Halloween itself. Maybe that one year in college was a little bit more actual Halloween investment with your fucking cool costume. But I just I don't th I don't have recollection
steph: Yeah, I just don't
Britt: of you like being into the holiday the way that me and John or me and Dad were.
steph: No, on the contrary, I can't remember right. I just can't remember like when I made that shift over to celebrating Samhain versus caring about Halloween. I do remember that twelve years ago when we moved down to South America. Yes. I I remember the apartment that we lived. I remember setting it up. And ever since then.
Britt: Yeah, I was gonna say I think it was post college as you got more into the Latin American culture. I think that's when it really took off for you.
steph: I think so too, yeah. But do you remember me
Britt: I think if you did set something up for Dia de los Muertos, it was most likely in your classroom.
steph: yeah, totally. So I was telling kids about this shit twenty years ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, that's true. Because I just lived by myself and yeah, I didn't do that stuff. Okay, cool.
Britt: For sure. For sure. For sure. Yep. Yep. So
steph: Well s yeah. This might be a fun episode. I think just for anybody out there interested in knowing more stuff.
Britt: I think the basically what we've gotten to here is why the fuck do we even celebrate Halloween? Outside of children knocking on doors and asking for candy and college students drinking.
steph: Okay, fair. And drinking. Yeah. Well
Britt: Like, or the excuse for adults to have a party and drink, whatever that k the case may be. Like,
steph: Yes, yes, yes. Yeah.
Britt: what where does all of this come from? Why do we why do we
steph: Okay.
Britt: carve pumpkins and bob for apples and vodka?
steph: Right. that's just Stephanie. so you don't know anything about this.
Britt: I know the story behind the jack-o'-lantern, but it's like the one thing that I really retained about Halloween.
steph: Okay. Okay, so where do we think all of this came from?
Britt: I don't know how to fill that in with all the things
steph: Well it's just one word.
Britt: in my head.
steph: okay. It's just one word. the answer is just Samhain. All of these things, comes from Samhain Now you say that's a European perspective. yeah, sure, but all ancestral traditions, hold ceremony and ritual and symbolism around the idea of death. And so Dia de los Muertos is this Mexican reverie and reverence of how do we hold sacred This notion of not just death and dying, but then this idea of after we experience death around us, what do we do with that then? Because we all have ancestors and we all have loved ones that now need to exist in another place. So we talked about the other world last week, With Samhain. this other invisible world, this, you know, through the entryway and the threshold of the mounds that are out there. Right. So that all happens. But like, where do all these dumb ideas for Halloween originate from? They originate from Samhain. Just all the things that kids are doing. bobbing for apples definitely comes from Samhain and practices. So here's a little question like wrapping around the end to the beginning. Because Halloween is very American. Kids will do it where I live. it's really weird and uncomfortable be because of the like you you it typically it's it's more like you go to the tiendas. It's not from house to house because people don't have things to give. Right. So so let's call Halloween very American. all the countries I've lived in in Europe, all the families I've been a part of in Europe, Halloween is not a thing. So, if I tell us all that all these symbols and all these things that all these kids are gonna go do this all originates from the ceremonial. And little R ritual that took place in the old Celtic world centuries ago. So how did that translate over to America?
Britt: how did we get here to become a thing? Same way, wouldn't it?
steph: So yeah, it's just the notion that, obviously it made its way over here when when all the Irish, right, because
Britt: People bring tradition. Yeah. Yeah.
steph: the Irish came over here and they were still obviously in the beginning, they were still trying to bring over this long held ancestral tradition of honoring the spirit world.
Britt: Yeah, actually I was just gonna say, I can't remember if it was this or if it was Samhain. I read during one of these sessions of studying, Because of the Puritans, the festival and the the celebrations around Halloween actually didn't happen in the original colonies. They happened in the southern colonies. Like in the the Maryland. Yeah. Yeah. It was really I just it a connection I didn't make until I actually read it, but it totally makes sense.
steph: yeah, okay. Yeah, that would make sense. Yeah. Yeah, that would make sense. well, I remember studying about this a long time or reading about it a long time ago and it was just the notion and so maybe not thirteen original because the Irish didn't come over in the thirteen original, but but when the
Britt: They certainly didn't.
steph: Irish started to come over after famines and whatnot, they were still bringing over original As as close to original practices as possible, but then yeah, it gets and I often say bastardized, right? Because then it just turns into a party. Because there is this disconnect that happens when you leave your traditional land. And and imagine, like once you get over to that east coast of America, like you don't have hills anymore. And like
Britt: Right, right.
steph: rolling green, you don't have the terrain, the spiritual
Britt: It's very different. Right.
steph: terrain that was Holding physical space in Ireland doesn't exist in the Bronx or wherever the Irish would go
Britt: Yeah.
steph: migrate to, no? Okay, so that being said, I just wanted to give a little rundown on what all these things f like from where they actually come and where does the symbolism actually come? And and and I guess it would be cool, because I remember learning about this a long time ago. And so it would just be cool that if folks kind of knew. no one needs to change any of their practices. I mean, I think a lot of people should start giving credence to and spending time with something like Samhain. which again, I usually set all my stuff up like that whole week of. but I can also understand that people aren't into that right now and it might not be a thing. And people that have little kids in America, it's it's hard to tell kids to not go at a stranger's house and ask for candy. Especially if that's what those kids have been doing their whole life. So this especially
Britt: Especially if that's what those kids' friends are doing. like
steph: if yes, and it that's happening at the stores and it's happening on TV, so I get it. So just a little fun episode of where the actual symbols of Halloween originate from. So Britt, like just lay it on me because let's see how well versed I am in this after 20 years.
Britt: Okay, do you want me to list them or do we want to go one by one?
steph: And I will come back at ya. No, let's just go one by one.
Britt: Okay, witches. Feels obvious.
steph: Yeah, that kind of feels obvious in the sense of well, I don't even really have an answer for this because somehow this is like a whole episode because somehow the druids and the priestesses turned into, well, and then they they spent over 700,
Britt: Became witches. Yeah. Yeah. We made them witches.
steph: 700 years. I think it was 700 years they killed them and in in they killed women in all the corners of Europe. So the the the the witch has been this demonized version of a woman well, since the dawn of our patriarchy. so then in Halloween when you're talking about spirits to scare you and things like this, this translated over time it's like, yeah, it must be the crazy lady down the road, down the lane, who next month we're all planning on stringing up, you know. So for instance,
Britt: Okay.
steph: the witch is not usually a symbol that I've ever spoken to. And to become its own episode is like, yikes!
Britt: Yeah, that's kinda what I was saying there at the beginning is that th the idea of the witch in general, outside of Halloween, is something that has essentially evolved into a bastardization of the witch.
steph: Well, of the woman.
Britt: Because traditionally, let's be honest, witches were not witches, they were h doulas and healthcare for peop like witches were real resources.
steph: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's that's where they just needed a reason to Yeah, they just needed a reason to kill women.
Britt: Right. So I that's why I said, maybe this actually isn't the best one to start with, or even a conversation that we have with Halloween.
steph: Yeah, yeah, I don't think so. I guess off record right now, I don't ever use this one as a symbol that goes back to Samhain.
Britt: You made this list.
steph: N we made it together and then I highlighted the ones that were for sure.
Britt: Killing me. Okay, well, witches is a difficult one, but I will be more specific and let's go with brooms. Because that is something.
steph: Is this the one that you know?
Britt: No, jack-o' lanterns is what I know, but I do know that
steph: Okay.
Britt: the association of brooms and the witches who ride them with this time of year is about sweeping like the bad spirits and all of the bad energy
steph: Mm-hmm.
Britt: and everything out of your door. And so this same idea of these
steph: Mm-hmm. Also in general
Britt: these bad spirits must be from this the crazy lady down the lane, sweeping them out of her own house.
steph: Also in general, I've read a lot of connections between the witch of Yore and the broom. because people didn't concern themselves with cleaning their houses. But a wise woman and a midwife and a medicine woman, you know, she who brought all the herbs, like an herbalist. it was important for them to keep their cottages or their if if you if you go back to that time yeah you need
Britt: if we're thinking about medicine or caregivers, it still needs to be as clean as possible. Yeah.
steph: to keep your right and so then again we're talking about that categorization of women and they were the only ones that really concerned themselves because this was another thing also I forget what I was watching or seeing or reading or something It's really hard, and maybe it was the conversation about Samhain. It's really hard for us to really go back and recognize what dark is back in those days. Like there wasn't light pollution. People were not cleaning their houses.
Britt: Right. That was definitely part of our conversation. Yes. Totally.
steph: There there were shoes and socks and taking them off at the front door mat. Like this didn't happen. So people were
Britt: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
steph: far less concerned with keeping a clean floor. Also there Floors were stone. I except
Britt: Right. Or dirt.
steph: for those women who needed to have clean spaces so that they could work on all their what
Britt: Right. Right. Right.
steph: was later deemed as a witchcraft. yeah, so brooms.
Britt: yeah.
steph: Okay, so what's the next one?
Britt: I could go straight to black cats.
steph: So yeah, that's a good one. Right, black cats. so s
Britt: 'cause I feel like black cats and witches well, these are your two primary
steph: Yeah, they do.
Britt: Halloween costumes.
steph: Yeah, I was onto something. I didn't even know it. No, black cats definitely
Britt: You sure were.
steph: because it in this old Irish Digo must be in the old Celtic traditions, they definitely recognized black cats as like shape-shifting, they had shape-shifting abilities and qualities. There was a mystery. Yeah,
Britt: Cats are liquid.
steph: kind of yeah, and like the bunnies. And the rabbits,
Britt: Mm-hmm.
steph: I I don't want anyone to quote me on Yeah,
Britt: Easter time I wanna include in there.
steph: and I don't want anyone to quote me on like, yeah, you know, that black cats had a bad rap, but they definitely were recognized as yeah,
Britt: Black cats have always had a bad rap.
steph: so kind of this notion of shape shifting in that old traditional like folklore, they were kind of pulled out for that. definitely hung out with their witch, you know, guardians. And And were also animals that had access to that other world. So
Britt: I was gonna say cats are part of the liminal space for sure. They can cross back and forth. Mm-hmm.
steph: Yeah, and I think a lot of us who dig cats, yeah, and we can kind of see that. I mean, yeah, When my cat used to stare at places in the ceiling, I think so too. I think so too. So that's
Britt: Can't see things that aren't there, for sure. Yeah. Yeah.
steph: they're groovy animals. so yeah, so now we have this symbol of the witch, which of course extends way past just Celtic folklore,
Britt: Totally.
steph: and then you have this broom and this cat that kind of make her Her, a total specimen. And then yeah, yeah, and and being a symbol of Halloween now, yes, but I'm also not that again, just to restate, this is not directly from Celtic Samhain. It's kind
Britt: Mm-mm.
steph: of it was pretty general. And later on, all throughout the continental Europe, they were like, Look, she's got a black cat, you know, like get her. So she cleans her house. So yeah.
Britt: Right. Right. And in the thirteen original colonies. Okay, so my
steph: Good good old history.
Britt: my I gonna say my next favorite animal, but my next favorite Halloween-associated animal. My favorite animal at the zoo. Bats.
steph: Okay. Right. So bats being this nocturnal. Again, this is not terribly Samhain, but because there were huge bonfires at the festival, being a fire festival on the Wheel of the Year and in the Celtic tradition, sure, I think that there was just a recognition that bats are out at night. And so they were often characters at the bonefires. for no other reason than they're just real animals. So not a lot of research, not a lot of that they're helping with divination and whatnot. They were just present.
Britt: would say the the well I think the tie I think the tie between bats and Halloween is actually more recent past and ties to Dracula.
steph: sure. And Dracula
Britt: Yeah. Yeah.
steph: obviously comes from over on the other side of the continent, where that's their folklore, right? And so sure,
Britt: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
steph: when everyone starts coalescing and coming together as all these different immigrated folklores and traditions and stories, yeah, then you have Hollywood and marketing. So again, that's
Britt: Yeah. Well, that's all from a book first. I wanna try to stay like in some sort of like connected sense. So you said something in that response that I will is not on my list of things, but I will throw it out there. You said bone fires and bones skeletons. Definitely
steph: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Britt: a symbol here of of the holiday. what's a bone fire?
steph: Of death. A bonfire is the original word for bonfire.
Britt: Okay, but what I mean, what does that mean? Yeah.
steph: Because they would they would in in the s in the Celtic fire festival, they would slaughter their animals and then use the bones at the fire. to get rid of everything. They would they would they would
Britt: That's my questi that's my question.
steph: Yeah, so they referred to them as bone fires because that's what they would do with the slaughtered animals is throw them in there, obviously in a sense of protection and keeping the rest of the herd safe and using the whole animal. And so they would refer to it as a bone fire.
Britt: I'm st sitting here thinking like a dried out bone is probably like a dura flame log. It would probably burn for a good long time.
steph: Yeah, I guess. And and and those women and children that were up in the hills tending the herd, y I mean, sure, they probably walked down with I I would imagine, like, some bones from over the time that they were up there during the season.
Britt: Yeah. Yeah.
steph: obviously a skeleton, there were no skeleton decorations necessarily at Samhain.
Britt: No.
steph: Over over at Dia de los Muertos, it is this notion of like that's the depiction of death. Yeah, and on my altar all the time I have as many calacas as I can find, which are the actual skulls themselves, or or in the Mexican
Britt: Mm-hmm.
steph: tradition, there's there's there's huge
Britt: Sugar skulls.
steph: imagery and symbol of like well, you the movie Coco. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So it's just
Britt: It was playing at the emergency vet all day yesterday.
steph: this notion of they are in the other world or the afterlife, they would refer to it as,
Britt: Mm-hmm.
steph: you know, like wearing their clothes, at the party, playing their guitar, drinking their alcohol, like having a good time. Cause again we were trying
Britt: Yeah. Yeah.
steph: to not just be all sad and mourn like, someone died. It like, Hey, yeah, that's what happens. Mm-hmm.
Britt: Mm. Mm-hmm.
steph: Okay, next.
Britt: Well, let's just go right from there to our good old ghosts. I think this is a little bit of an obvious conversation, but let's have it.
steph: Yeah, just the fact that the veil opens up at this time of year and specifically do you remember mom teaching us all Hallows Eve?
Britt: No Hi, I'm the third child.
steph: it was one of its iterations. Yeah, it was one of the iterations like between Celtic traditional druids
Britt: Sure, yeah. Yeah.
steph: and then the church coming in. So it was one of one of the yeah, versions
Britt: Right.
steph: that it took on are the iterations. so ghosts are just this idea of right, if the veil's gonna open, how are we going to imagine to see a spirit? And it's not the only way. There are other ways, and we can get into that because that's gonna be something else. But a ghost was gonna be a depiction of one character that would show up from the other world. Mm-hmm.
Britt: Right. Right, right.
steph: Or spirit, when you try to draw spirit, what are you gonna draw? Right. And by this I mean spirit of the other
Britt: A zero.
steph: world and not spirit, right, and not like a universal spirit. Exactly. But when you get to
Britt: I've been paying attention.
steph: this time, yeah. When you get to this time in the ancestral world and cultures, yeah, how How else could you imagine something that's not necessarily walking and has funny little
Britt: Right, right,
steph: powers?
Britt: right. I'm gonna go because I'm as I'm going through this list, I'm realizing my studying actually is sticking because I'm gonna go from ghosts to costumes and I do know this one.
steph: Right. Right. So do you remember what the name for it was?
Britt: no.
steph: Okay. So it had a name and it had a reason. So because the veil lifts and the other world opens up and a bunch of spirits and ancestors, but like, yeah,
Britt: Good and bad. Mm-hmm.
steph: mostly spirits, trickster spirits, fay folk, everyone is coming over. So I don't want to be bothered by them. Cause I'm not quite sure who's going to be good and who's going to try to like, yeah,
Britt: Right. Who's good? Yep. Yep.
steph: who's going to be bad or who's going to haunt us or who's going to get stuck. but I also have to manage myself that day because we're all gonna go out to the bone fire and and and and so
Britt: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
steph: I'm gonna spend that day and I'm gonna dress I'm gonna I'm gonna participate in guising. And I'm gonna dress myself up so that I match in with all the spirits and all the fay
Britt: Mm-hmm.
steph: folk and whatnot, so that they don't know that I'm a real person because I don't want anyone to bother me. So that was the act of guising, and so everyone would use
Britt: Yeah. Yeah. I mm-hmm.
steph: it like a bourbon, like We're gonna make sure we guise tonight so that we don't get heckled.
Britt: Yeah. Yeah. I loved that. okay, so Americanizing this a little bit, just looking at my list of things, let's go from costumes to trick-or-treating.
steph: Yeah, do you know this?
Britt: I don't know this.
steph: Mm-hmm.
Britt: Yeah, no, I don't think I do have an idea of the tricks I think I have a little bit of a foundation, but I don't know.
steph: Well, so back in old Celtic. So I'm I I don't know a lot besides l anything that I've studied and learned about like the Mexican tradition with Dia de los Muertos, I have focused all my studying on yeah, Celtic origin stories. So back in the fire festival of Samhain, everyone is guising so that they don't get bothered by spirits. You also are leaving sweets
Britt: Mm.
steph: and whatnot outside your door in the hopes that as the spirits come by, if they're your family spirit, then treats at your door was the one way to say, hey, you're welcome. Like come on in. But those same treats were served for all the other spirits that are got that are going around all night long and playing tricks and doing their thing to like here, take a treat and like please leave this house alone. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So everyone have it out.
Britt: a snack and keep going. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I did read that oftentimes they would they would specifically and this as I was researching last week, I read this and it made this connection between Samhain and Dia de los Muertos in a way that I never had before. oftentimes apparently people would cook the foods that their that their past ones liked. And so it was like
steph: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Britt: they would put it out to entice their loved ones to come.
steph: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So another thing that would happen, yes to that. and I think we mentioned it on last week's episode with also something like the dumb supper.
Britt: Mm-hmm.
steph: Right. Was obviously, back then again, also it's not like they had major menus of meals, but obviously
Britt: Right.
steph: when I participate in this and with my kids, I do my best, for instance, to think about like what would Uncle John like. Sometimes like I'll always make chicken cacciatore like something that Baba would make all the time, where it's just kind of a family recipe. with that intention that yeah, and that's what I teach the kids. so yes, but back to the trigger treating. So yes, there was sweets and or. These meals on the door. But let's also go back. They these people didn't have a lot to waste, right? So it's not like you made a big meal and set it out on your door, and then you had a dumb supper and you did all that stuff. So you have these little biscuits or cookies or whatever that they would make
Britt: Mm-hmm.
steph: and leave them out so the spirits would go. Another thing that would take place through this guising is that poorer children or people would also go around and offer song. Or little sh like little acts, they would put on a tiny
Britt: Mm-hmm.
steph: little show, or they would sing songs, mostly songs. Sometimes also as it kind of started taking on its different iteration, like offer a prayer for like soul cakes. This is something else that they would make, because then kids would come up, offer a prayer for their dead ones to come back, and in return for the prayer for the family, they'd be given a cake, a little cookie, right?
Britt: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
steph: or you would sing a song for the family or something and So sure, that's the origin story of trick-or-treating. Because then this obviously came back, but when you migrate to a new culture in a new land and you're trying to keep this, but then all your neighbors start and and you have a bunch of different
Britt: Yeah.
steph: cultures coming together, and everyone's like, Isn't this just a party? And then somehow now we trick-or-treat.
Britt: Mm-hmm.
steph: But that definitely came from keeping spirits away from your house that were unwelcome. And the poor people of the village would go around and offer something. to start filling up pillowcases of cookies. What else is on your list?
Britt: Okay, so A couple more things left here. We're coming down to it. caramel
steph: Yeah cool.
Britt: apples. I know apples play a big role here historically, but caramel apples? Okay.
steph: Okay, Apples did play not Carmel, 'cause Carmel no, this is just circus, American Dent dental purposes.
Britt: So then the idea of caramel apples and bobbing for apples kinda come from the same foundation? Okay.
steph: No, that's what I'm saying. Caramel levels is just something we've created because we like to eat sugar.
Britt: okay. Okay.
steph: Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But apples, yes. Apples, yes. Bobbing for apples,
Britt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Apples.
steph: yes. So apples, of course, being one of these fruits from harvest, and this is the season of it. And
Britt: Mm-hmm. Totally.
steph: there there were two games to play because once you would go back, it wasn't all a somber evening. I mean, everyone the whole village needed
Britt: No, no, no.
steph: to extinguish their fires, and the whole village, at least for some win, so in Celtic. Folklore, the whole village goes out to the bonfires. you have divination happening for the village, everyone's putting their their bones on the fire, everybody's arranging their rock to see what's gonna happen in their year, everyone's bringing their herd so that everything can get protected, right? There's a lot of ritual happening. But then you drop down
Britt: Mm-hmm.
steph: to town and I hesitate to say there was a party, but folks had their dumb suppers and folks were Guysing around all night, kids would walk around and sing songs or say prayers for soul cakes, things of this nature, right? So there was one of the acts or one of the practices in an effort to, you know, tell the future or see what was going to happen, or quite frankly, pick your partner, would be either bobbing for apples in water, Or they would hang apple apples from a string. And so you would have to, that was the game to let well
Britt: And eat Yeah.
steph: to try to, get a bite of it, which probably isn't it doesn't seem terribly easy. But sure, that
Britt: N terribly difficult.
steph: was like a practice to that was specifically apples were specifically part of like union, you know. Because again, and I'm pretty sure we said this, this was also identified as the beginning of the year. Right? This is the next year cycle.
Britt: Right, right. We definitely did say that.
steph: So who am I gonna get married to this next year? and then you use an apple and apple even deep,
Britt: Why do apples
steph: because in deep, deep, deep tradition, deep, and so we're talking Greek, tr like old Greek, the the Sumerians, everyone sees the apple as it's fairly connected to like I believe Persephone. We can look that up.
Britt: Mm-hmm.
steph: in fact I will, like sensual goddess, fertility. let's actually see with
Britt: So that's why the connection basically.
steph: No, Persephone's not right. The it was Yeah, the apples connected. Most notably Aphrodite, the goddess of love and beauty, and a Norris, goddess of eternal youth. In Celtic, it was associated with apples as a symbol fertility. Yeah, so now I wanna say All these old ancestral cultures had their own story
Britt: Mm-hmm.
steph: where a goddess was definitely gifted an apple, kind of in this sign or show of love.
Britt: So it's the it's this symbol of union just because it's tied to women and fertility and is am am I understanding that correctly?
steph: Yeah, sure. Well, sure. And also, I mean, we also have to just go back into that other space of our brains with what was accessible at the time. No one's eating like fresas, no one's eating like strawberries and shit. It was like an apple or squash. What else do we have at this period of time, right? We're done with all the berries, we're done with all the flowers, apples, pears, kind of. But when we're talking about all these different places, I'm going to make an assumption. We could Google this. But it's more of a general seed to fruit. From the from the Norris North.
Britt: apples naturally come from apples apples naturally come from Germany. Every apple on the planet is from a single forest in Germany that spans between Germany and Poland. Yes. Yes, apples apples translate everywhere.
steph: Yeah, so so it was just the thing, yeah, and and and they're also more hardy. So I I I can't even get home from the market without busting one pear. I mean, I buy three or four and and definitely one never makes it home very well, right? Because it's not as hardy. So an apple, it's it's this, it's this accessible fruit that was happening in the area at the time, like literally the time of harvest. And so it was the one thing to use. Also because the squash that we're about to talk about was used for a different reason. Right, right, right.
Britt: Right. So let's talk about the squash. Which we use pumpkins. Old Irish
steph: Right.
Britt: used turnips.
steph: Right. Or whatever they had. turnip was obviously the big one. but yeah, sure. Whatever squash. Once they came over here and there was the North American version of a nice big orange pumpkin, sure, that's what they used. But so
Britt: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
steph: and do you know why that they like what did they why did they do this? Do you know?
Britt: I know there's a story behind it. I don't know how accurate it is. I'm like I know there's a a an a a tale.
steph: Yes, there are tales. and his name is Jack.
Britt: Stingy Jack.
steph: But the original reason for it, they were well, there are two reasons for it. So when everybody, we spoke about this last week, everybody needed to extinguish the fire in their own hearth. and again, this is just Celtic research or Celtic study. So you extinguish your fire and everyone shows up to the bone fire. And at the bone fire, in a sign of unity and a sign that the village is like strong together. We have our own origin story here with us. We're gonna start off the new year together. everyone needed a way to take an ember back to their house. And so they would carve out a turnip
Britt: Mm-hmm.
steph: to bring an ember back so that they could start their fire. They also realized, shit, with all these spirits and tricksters and all these people running around, I can only make so many cakes. So I certainly don't have for waste. So I'm gonna put a couple cakes out, but what if I carved a bunch of turnips? And made them really scary looking. And then I would put a little flame in there, ember, what have you, to make sure that I can scare off the spirits and the trickster fairies, right? So that
Britt: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
steph: was there, that's the absolute origin of let's make sure we cut into these squash family relatives. Yeah,
Britt: That's the human origin.
steph: to make sure that I can yeah, scare away anybody that doesn't belong. Also, again,
Britt: Mm-hmm.
steph: the just as the cakes and whatnot. It it's also understood that you would light a turnip or a squash or whatever, that you would light up your door so that your ancestors could find their way back home. So between their favorite little food or a little cookie or a little treat and then you light your threshold, they were able to make sure that they came into your house. Mm-hmm.
Britt: Lovely. Should should I tell the story of Stingy Jack so that we can end
steph: Yeah, I'm hoping I that is the one thing that I'm hoping the girls
Britt: the episode that way?
steph: are these the only things? is there really nothing else to talk about?
Britt: That's it, that's the end of the list.
steph: Okay, so yeah, why don't we? Why don't we hear the story of Stingy Jack? Yeah. Let's put in some music.
Britt: You want me to tell the story? Okay, so That's your job
steph: huh. But some we'll do it.
Britt: cue the tunes. okay, so there was a man. His name was Jack. He didn't like to spend his money, so he was known as Stingy Jack. Stingy Jack ran into the devil one day and convinced the devil to sit down for a beer. And when It came time to pay for said beers. Jack convinced the devil to turn himself into a coin so that he could pay for the beers with the devil coin, and then he could turn himself back into the devil and just wander
steph: Wanna grab it by you? stingy Jack isn't.
Britt: away, and they would get their beers for free. Except, so th isn't
steph: Clever guy.
Britt: he so? And Stingy Jack put said coin in his pocket next to silver coin. So th basically it trapped the devil,
steph: So he was trying to play a
Britt: trapped him in his pocket as a coin, and the devil couldn't escape.
steph: Silly Jack.
Britt: So eventually Jack let the devil free. And made a deal with him that you can't come for me for an entire year. Regardless of what happens, you gotta leave me alone for an entire year. You can't take me.
steph: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Britt: The devil says, fine, just turn me back into me. He turns him back into frees him from the coin.
steph: Mm-hmm.
Britt: So a year later, the devil finds himself a Jack, basically, and it's time to pay up. And somehow Jack convinces the devil to climb up into this tree and get that really great apple up there. So the devil
steph: Yeah.
Britt: climbs up into the tree and as he's up there retrieving said apple, Jack etches across into the bark of the tree and traps the devil again. I mean Jack's kind of a shit.
steph: Come on, Jack. Yeah, what is he? Okay. I just don't know what his end game is here.
Britt: I think Jack sorta just wants to live forever. He I think he just wants to,
steph: He doesn't want to have pay up. Okay. Okay.
Britt: Yeah. Longevity. So Jack convinces the devil to in order to get out of the tree, you gotta leave me alone for the next ten years. Just we've done this one year, I want ten more. And then we can hash it out from there, basically. The devil says, Fine, fine. Leaves him alone for ten years. Well Within the next couple of years, Jack gets sick and Jack dies. And he goes to heaven and heaven's like, you're a shit, Jack. So we sorta
steph: Yeah.
Britt: don't want the likes of you in the pearly gates. We're gonna need you to go.
steph: Right. Exit stage right. Yeah.
Britt: Right. And he gets down to hell, and the devil says, We had a deal and I can't take you. So I guess you're on your own. And the devil threw him. An ember of hellfire, if you will, which Jack put into his carved out turnip, and it lights
steph: Mm.
Britt: his way through the eternal darkness.
steph: Loves.
Britt: Yeah, it's a good story. I don't know why that's not more
steph: It is a good story.
Britt: readily shared, because it's a good story.
steph: W I just the yeah, it's yeah, I don't y this is where my it's not skepticism so much as just like meh about Halloween. Like, yeah, sure, why why don't we have Halloween stories? I guess we have ghost stories that people tell, but how did this not live?
Britt: Interestingly enough, I went a little bit further than that and said we as a society don't tend to be storytellers anymore.
steph: That's another episode.
Britt: I don't think it's specific to Halloween. I think that we just don't sh let me rephrase that. Our way of sharing stories and telling our things has
steph: Mm-hmm.
Britt: become social media.
steph: Well, so Britt, thanks for rounding us out. W well. Right, exactly. And so I
Britt: And so we are telling our story to the masses instead of like telling our story to our community and passing it on.
steph: did not know you were gonna do any of this. And so yeah, I guess, and I hate to even end this on a serious note, but that's really what I I guess I'm trying to revive. and it's not the whole idea of this podcast, but we're all storytellers.
Britt: It's a thread. Yeah.
steph: Yeah, it's a it's a it's a thread that goes through and I highly encourage all of us to yeah, keep that in mind. Keep it in mind when we come up to the holidays that you celebrate. And now
Britt: Mm.
steph: we have the Googles, so you can go find another story about Jack. Keep it in mind as we go along the wheel of the year, because when we tell stories and it doesn't have to be just to children, and I've sat in spaces where adults hang out to listen to the children's story as attentively as my eight-year-old would. So,
Britt: Totally.
steph: and obviously back in the day, telling stories was the only way to maintain that that that wisdom was passed down and that we shared and we taught and we educated. but yeah, we've absolutely lost it as an art and as a cultural practice. video killed the radio.
Britt: Yeah. I would even say as a a cultural foundation, I think it's it
steph: Sure.
Britt: it is yeah, it's so much more than just a practice. It is really like the thing that created culture in the first place, we've completely lost touch
steph: Yes, yes.
Britt: from.
steph: Yes. Thank you to all of our grandmothers, grandmothers, grandmothers, the grandmothers of all of our grandmothers, grandmothers. And so as we continue to weave our stories here, what a lovely way to end. There always be some encouragement for all of y'all out there to Consider the same. so that being said, hope you enjoyed the episode. Pass this along to your mothers.
Britt: Pause Where can they find us, Steph?
steph: Yeah, where can they find us? Brittany, Britney went and found like just a whole I don't know if it's like a it's it's not a detail. There's a better one. I mean it's
Britt: It's a very fascinating thing that we've done here.
steph: not fascinating, but it just seems so obvious. For those of you that have for those of you that know us personally, hey. For those of you that have been around since the beginning, the big inning,
Britt: Since March.
steph: thanks. We love you. Yeah.
Britt: It's true.
steph: So for those of you that can fathom, the fact Brittany went through cause sh I guess why? Cause you were irritated that you could never remember. Yeah.
Britt: 'Cause Brittany's trying to be an organized bitch this year.
steph: Yeah. So so obviously, what did you find? This is so obvious.
Britt: I found all of our accounts that I set up were set up with nineteen as numbers and all of the things that you set
steph: Yeah.
Britt: up were set up with nineteen written out. Which is why we're confusing here
steph: Yeah.
Britt: at the end of every episode.
steph: A little bit. When I go through and I fix when I go through and edit, I edit the text. If anyone out there like me throws captions on all the shit that you watch, I edit the text so that the things that are in numbers have numbers and things that have letters have letters. but obviously when Brittany told me that I like, Yeah, that's clear. I don't know. I've I'm a s I'm a second born, I'm a middle child. You and John definitely John
Britt: Ha ha
steph: would have I think Christian also did shit with numbers and it's like, Come on, you know. Letters are so lovely.
Britt: Sure. but I did also
steph: So
Britt: suss out that we did we did set up things in a way that makes it easy because all of our socials are with numbers. You can email the Gmail, you can find us on Instagram, and you can find us on TikTok at 19 Moons Podcast with numbers. But if you want to engage with the podcast on any podcast platform or on YouTube, it's Nineteen Moons with letters. So the actual production is with letters.
steph: So so Stephanie was involved of with naming the the way that people will see and hear us. Yeah.
Britt: The long form.
steph: And Brittany and Christian were involved, yeah, with all the fucking thirty second spindly spins.
Britt: In the short form.
steph: Okay, yeah, so that even makes more sense.
Britt: It makes all the sense in the world.
steph: darling, so this is coming out. Blessed, blessed, blessed Samhain. dudes, if anyone got inspired to put up an altar, put your put
Britt: We wanna see it. Yeah.
steph: Yeah, tag us in your socials. Because put it up and also pass the word. but
Britt: You don't even have to put it up on the socials. You don't even have to put it up on the socials if you don't wanna share it. But if I wanna see it, so you should email us a picture at the Gmail.
steph: Mm. Yeah, you can do yeah, sure. I sorry, if you don't want to share it, yeah. No one here is forcing that uncomfortable exposure. but if you wanted to set it up, tag the shit out of us, and as I always rem like p you like pass us on, subscribe, go check us out. Yeah, Britney and I have
Britt: Share us with your friends. Hmm.
steph: not seen each other for a couple weeks, literally, but then we showed up today looking exactly the same. I have my detail, you have yours. So That's fun to watch. and have a really lovely weekend. I it's I sound so old when I say be safe out there. if anyone's bobbing for apples in a vat of vodka, I'd love to see the picture of
Britt: Don't breathe deep.
steph: that. everybody have a
Britt: All right, guys.
steph: lovely weekend, have a good holiday and a blessed Samhain. We love you very much.
Britt: Okay.
steph: Okay, fair. And drinking.
Britt: where does all of this come from? why do we
steph: Okay.
Britt: carve pumpkins and bob for apples and vodka?
steph: Right. Where does all of Halloween come from?
Britt: w
steph: the answer is just Samhain. All of these things, except for bobbing for apples in vodka, comes from Samhain Now you say that's a European perspective. Yeah, Yeah. Hill.
Britt: Hey Steph. Dude, it's weird that we're like in the same city and how little I see you.
steph: I also don't have a car. We can imagine what it would be like if I had my own transportation. Yeah, mm, because maybe
Britt: Such is life. Yeah, I think that's the difficulty. Yeah, it would definitely
steph: I would be at your door. Yeah.
Britt: We would have a lot more flexibility for sure. Trick-or-treating. I love let's tell tell the listeners, tell the people, Steph, what your children said when you mentioned leaving before Halloween. One child specifically, the
steph: Well, when I mentioned leaving
Britt: oldest.
steph: I mean is this the what do you think we're gonna do? Dress up and go from go to people wait, what do you think strangers, what
Britt: Go knock on people's doors and ask them for candy.
steph: do you think we're gonna do? Just go knock on people's doors? Yeah, and ask for candy? We're not gonna do that.
Britt: What kinda crazy people do you think we are?
steph: Yeah. Okay. My kids don't know that we're recording now, so I they're th what are you using a stool for? so I they're th what are you using a stool for? Yeah, Kate Sullivan, please move the other stool back. And I need you guys to get out and get in. In, out, no microwave. let's function. Mila move quicker. This is molasses. Move the chair, please. finish loops, Yeah. they have now I I do have to a I well now I have to say caveat. that was at the beginning of our trip. now they definitely would be like, yeah, let's go. Cause they're, you know, every time we go to the grocery store, they're of getting I mean, you can definitely see how Propaganda works. Propaganda and yeah, the whole marketing gig here in America.
Britt: The moment your kids start school in America, that your your attempts to keep them away from McDonald's and candy and soda, gone. If you're in public school, that shit's gone. You'll you've lost all hope and all control.
steph: Yeah, that's funny they even say it's funny you say McDonald's because they were definitely Mama what's that place with like the the yellow sign that looks like mountains? Yeah. And I was like, Woo
Britt: Don't teach them about the golden arches.
steph: yeah, I I I I felt safe. I felt safe and And not necessarily that I was doing a good job, but I felt safe that's cool that my kids don't know McDonald's. So
Britt: Yeah. Yeah.
steph: Yeah, so Halloween.
Britt: We also You, though, dislike this holiday.
steph: I sure do.
Britt: Deeply.
steph: Yeah, I liked I was always a witch for Halloween as a child. So that was funny.
Britt: Or a black cat.
steph: Or a black kitty, so everything makes sense in the end.
Britt: It's funny how much colour you
steph: yeah, you remember John would God, do you remember he would just There might be some people out there listening. Hello to you, you know who you are. he would just eat one piece of candy a day and keep that shit until like the next calendar year.
Britt: In that fucking lockbox. Do you
steph: Yeah of course.
Britt: And some of it would go in the freezer, depending on what it was. Soap particular.
steph: Yeah, yeah, sure. The little bars, the actual candy bars. Yeah, sure. yeah, God.
Britt: One piece of chocolate a day is very John.
steph: and I think and we would always you know, I sure we would always come home and like do our bartering stuff.
Britt: Totally. I think all siblings do
steph: Yeah.
Britt: that.
steph: Yeah. I mean it's kind of the glory
Britt: do you know it's funny? My child naturally always, when we were in the realm of trick-or-treating,
steph: Yeah.
Britt: always ended up saving candy and had candy into Halloween of the next year. No conversation about his uncle. He just did it. Yeah. We also end up with, like,
steph: that's weird. Yeah, th okay, that is cute. one. So
Britt: Yeah, here's my thing is that I feel like Halloween for adults. Well, at a certain point, Halloween, the idea or this foundation of Halloween in America at least, gets really lost. if I'm if I'm over trick-or-treating as a teenager, I'm
steph: There's nothing to do.
Britt: R there's nothing of quality to do. Like teenagers don't have Halloween parties these days. They go out and they cause a ruckus or whatever.
steph: Yeah. I th that hold on, can I say something about that? 'Cause
Britt: But then e
steph: the girls watched Hocus Pocus the other day.
Britt: Classic.
steph: Yeah. Well it's a classic and they've definitely the two eldest have definitely been like, we don't want to watch cartoons anymore. And I was like, okay, Goonies, Hogus Bogus,
Britt: They're at that age for sure.
steph: Uncle Bach. Yeah. Yeah, so I saw you see the teenagers like stealing candy and stuff. It was just really funny for me to kind of relive a scene like that and be like, what? Like as like a me now? Like what jerks? And What a drag. Yeah, because it makes me also think of my boys in high school. And yeah, there were M80s in porta potties. Okay. Not
Britt: Totally.
steph: not my idea. I'm not the one that did it at all, but I was definitely witness to and somehow an accomplice to like destroying property.
Britt: Y listen, I was an accomplice to some dry ice situations that I don't even want to talk about, so
steph: that makes me think like the last time I brought up, I forget if it was ultimately in the episode, but I brought up bobbing for apples and vodka, and you were like, have you done that? I I yeah, it made me think like, well, I have some like luge incidences at university that definitely involved like unsanitary situations just to get alcohol in the system. Which was also a Halloween weekend. So just trying to bring this
Britt: Course.
steph: all together at one point. I I too enjoyed It was less enjoying Halloween. And I think what you're getting at, yeah, what do you what else? I after you're trick-or-treating and you're like, Weeee then you're just down for the party.
Britt: Yeah. Exactly that. Exactly that. Then if there's if you don't have somebody who gets really into it and throws the party or these kinds of things, it's it's
steph: Yeah. I'm also I'm way not into like getting jumped, you know, and feeling like it's fun. And by jumped I mean like spooked and scared. Like I don't I I can't sneeze without pissing myself.
Britt: my God, I was like, what are you talking about?
steph: Yeah, like haunted houses and shit. Like I
Britt: That is a vernacular that nobody uses.
steph: Which one?
Britt: Getting jumped.
steph: Well, because this is another thing you mentioned that yeah, people so I I'm not necessarily into that. I'm into real ghost stories and you know, get me in an old house in Everett and start telling me what's happened to your family in there. I wanna hear that stuff. I don't I don't I
Britt: Sure.
steph: don't need to have someone jump from behind a wall and like zom that dressed up as a zombie and shit.
Britt: Yeah, I think there's a difference between tension and f anxiety based fear versus
steph: Mm.
Britt: like jump scares.
steph: Yeah.
Britt: I think that as a kid you like sure, as kids getting into a costume, getting a bunch of candy is always a great time. I think that you rode the energy of everybody at Halloween time and that's what you engaged with, not so much the the Halloween itself. Maybe that one year in college was a little bit more actual Halloween investment with your fucking cool costume. But I just I don't th I don't have recollection
steph: Yeah, I just don't
Britt: of you like being into the holiday the way that me and John or me and Dad were.
steph: No, on the contrary, I can't remember right. I just can't remember like when I made that shift over to celebrating Samhain versus caring about Halloween. I do remember that twelve years ago when we moved down to South America. Yes. I I remember the apartment that we lived. I remember setting it up. And ever since then.
Britt: Yeah, I was gonna say I think it was post college as you got more into the Latin American culture. I think that's when it really took off for you.
steph: I think so too, yeah. But do you remember me
Britt: I think if you did set something up for Dia de los Muertos, it was most likely in your classroom.
steph: yeah, totally. So I was telling kids about this shit twenty years ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, that's true. Because I just lived by myself and yeah, I didn't do that stuff. Okay, cool.
Britt: For sure. For sure. For sure. Yep. Yep. So
steph: Well s yeah. This might be a fun episode. I think just for anybody out there interested in knowing more stuff.
Britt: I think the basically what we've gotten to here is why the fuck do we even celebrate Halloween? Outside of children knocking on doors and asking for candy and college students drinking.
steph: Okay, fair. And drinking. Yeah. Well
Britt: Like, or the excuse for adults to have a party and drink, whatever that k the case may be. Like,
steph: Yes, yes, yes. Yeah.
Britt: what where does all of this come from? Why do we why do we
steph: Okay.
Britt: carve pumpkins and bob for apples and vodka?
steph: Right. that's just Stephanie. so you don't know anything about this.
Britt: I know the story behind the jack-o'-lantern, but it's like the one thing that I really retained about Halloween.
steph: Okay. Okay, so where do we think all of this came from?
Britt: I don't know how to fill that in with all the things
steph: Well it's just one word.
Britt: in my head.
steph: okay. It's just one word. the answer is just Samhain. All of these things, comes from Samhain Now you say that's a European perspective. yeah, sure, but all ancestral traditions, hold ceremony and ritual and symbolism around the idea of death. And so Dia de los Muertos is this Mexican reverie and reverence of how do we hold sacred This notion of not just death and dying, but then this idea of after we experience death around us, what do we do with that then? Because we all have ancestors and we all have loved ones that now need to exist in another place. So we talked about the other world last week, With Samhain. this other invisible world, this, you know, through the entryway and the threshold of the mounds that are out there. Right. So that all happens. But like, where do all these dumb ideas for Halloween originate from? They originate from Samhain. Just all the things that kids are doing. bobbing for apples definitely comes from Samhain and practices. So here's a little question like wrapping around the end to the beginning. Because Halloween is very American. Kids will do it where I live. it's really weird and uncomfortable be because of the like you you it typically it's it's more like you go to the tiendas. It's not from house to house because people don't have things to give. Right. So so let's call Halloween very American. all the countries I've lived in in Europe, all the families I've been a part of in Europe, Halloween is not a thing. So, if I tell us all that all these symbols and all these things that all these kids are gonna go do this all originates from the ceremonial. And little R ritual that took place in the old Celtic world centuries ago. So how did that translate over to America?
Britt: how did we get here to become a thing? Same way, wouldn't it?
steph: So yeah, it's just the notion that, obviously it made its way over here when when all the Irish, right, because
Britt: People bring tradition. Yeah. Yeah.
steph: the Irish came over here and they were still obviously in the beginning, they were still trying to bring over this long held ancestral tradition of honoring the spirit world.
Britt: Yeah, actually I was just gonna say, I can't remember if it was this or if it was Samhain. I read during one of these sessions of studying, Because of the Puritans, the festival and the the celebrations around Halloween actually didn't happen in the original colonies. They happened in the southern colonies. Like in the the Maryland. Yeah. Yeah. It was really I just it a connection I didn't make until I actually read it, but it totally makes sense.
steph: yeah, okay. Yeah, that would make sense. Yeah. Yeah, that would make sense. well, I remember studying about this a long time or reading about it a long time ago and it was just the notion and so maybe not thirteen original because the Irish didn't come over in the thirteen original, but but when the
Britt: They certainly didn't.
steph: Irish started to come over after famines and whatnot, they were still bringing over original As as close to original practices as possible, but then yeah, it gets and I often say bastardized, right? Because then it just turns into a party. Because there is this disconnect that happens when you leave your traditional land. And and imagine, like once you get over to that east coast of America, like you don't have hills anymore. And like
Britt: Right, right.
steph: rolling green, you don't have the terrain, the spiritual
Britt: It's very different. Right.
steph: terrain that was Holding physical space in Ireland doesn't exist in the Bronx or wherever the Irish would go
Britt: Yeah.
steph: migrate to, no? Okay, so that being said, I just wanted to give a little rundown on what all these things f like from where they actually come and where does the symbolism actually come? And and and I guess it would be cool, because I remember learning about this a long time ago. And so it would just be cool that if folks kind of knew. no one needs to change any of their practices. I mean, I think a lot of people should start giving credence to and spending time with something like Samhain. which again, I usually set all my stuff up like that whole week of. but I can also understand that people aren't into that right now and it might not be a thing. And people that have little kids in America, it's it's hard to tell kids to not go at a stranger's house and ask for candy. Especially if that's what those kids have been doing their whole life. So this especially
Britt: Especially if that's what those kids' friends are doing. like
steph: if yes, and it that's happening at the stores and it's happening on TV, so I get it. So just a little fun episode of where the actual symbols of Halloween originate from. So Britt, like just lay it on me because let's see how well versed I am in this after 20 years.
Britt: Okay, do you want me to list them or do we want to go one by one?
steph: And I will come back at ya. No, let's just go one by one.
Britt: Okay, witches. Feels obvious.
steph: Yeah, that kind of feels obvious in the sense of well, I don't even really have an answer for this because somehow this is like a whole episode because somehow the druids and the priestesses turned into, well, and then they they spent over 700,
Britt: Became witches. Yeah. Yeah. We made them witches.
steph: 700 years. I think it was 700 years they killed them and in in they killed women in all the corners of Europe. So the the the the witch has been this demonized version of a woman well, since the dawn of our patriarchy. so then in Halloween when you're talking about spirits to scare you and things like this, this translated over time it's like, yeah, it must be the crazy lady down the road, down the lane, who next month we're all planning on stringing up, you know. So for instance,
Britt: Okay.
steph: the witch is not usually a symbol that I've ever spoken to. And to become its own episode is like, yikes!
Britt: Yeah, that's kinda what I was saying there at the beginning is that th the idea of the witch in general, outside of Halloween, is something that has essentially evolved into a bastardization of the witch.
steph: Well, of the woman.
Britt: Because traditionally, let's be honest, witches were not witches, they were h doulas and healthcare for peop like witches were real resources.
steph: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's that's where they just needed a reason to Yeah, they just needed a reason to kill women.
Britt: Right. So I that's why I said, maybe this actually isn't the best one to start with, or even a conversation that we have with Halloween.
steph: Yeah, yeah, I don't think so. I guess off record right now, I don't ever use this one as a symbol that goes back to Samhain.
Britt: You made this list.
steph: N we made it together and then I highlighted the ones that were for sure.
Britt: Killing me. Okay, well, witches is a difficult one, but I will be more specific and let's go with brooms. Because that is something.
steph: Is this the one that you know?
Britt: No, jack-o' lanterns is what I know, but I do know that
steph: Okay.
Britt: the association of brooms and the witches who ride them with this time of year is about sweeping like the bad spirits and all of the bad energy
steph: Mm-hmm.
Britt: and everything out of your door. And so this same idea of these
steph: Mm-hmm. Also in general
Britt: these bad spirits must be from this the crazy lady down the lane, sweeping them out of her own house.
steph: Also in general, I've read a lot of connections between the witch of Yore and the broom. because people didn't concern themselves with cleaning their houses. But a wise woman and a midwife and a medicine woman, you know, she who brought all the herbs, like an herbalist. it was important for them to keep their cottages or their if if you if you go back to that time yeah you need
Britt: if we're thinking about medicine or caregivers, it still needs to be as clean as possible. Yeah.
steph: to keep your right and so then again we're talking about that categorization of women and they were the only ones that really concerned themselves because this was another thing also I forget what I was watching or seeing or reading or something It's really hard, and maybe it was the conversation about Samhain. It's really hard for us to really go back and recognize what dark is back in those days. Like there wasn't light pollution. People were not cleaning their houses.
Britt: Right. That was definitely part of our conversation. Yes. Totally.
steph: There there were shoes and socks and taking them off at the front door mat. Like this didn't happen. So people were
Britt: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
steph: far less concerned with keeping a clean floor. Also there Floors were stone. I except
Britt: Right. Or dirt.
steph: for those women who needed to have clean spaces so that they could work on all their what
Britt: Right. Right. Right.
steph: was later deemed as a witchcraft. yeah, so brooms.
Britt: yeah.
steph: Okay, so what's the next one?
Britt: I could go straight to black cats.
steph: So yeah, that's a good one. Right, black cats. so s
Britt: 'cause I feel like black cats and witches well, these are your two primary
steph: Yeah, they do.
Britt: Halloween costumes.
steph: Yeah, I was onto something. I didn't even know it. No, black cats definitely
Britt: You sure were.
steph: because it in this old Irish Digo must be in the old Celtic traditions, they definitely recognized black cats as like shape-shifting, they had shape-shifting abilities and qualities. There was a mystery. Yeah,
Britt: Cats are liquid.
steph: kind of yeah, and like the bunnies. And the rabbits,
Britt: Mm-hmm.
steph: I I don't want anyone to quote me on Yeah,
Britt: Easter time I wanna include in there.
steph: and I don't want anyone to quote me on like, yeah, you know, that black cats had a bad rap, but they definitely were recognized as yeah,
Britt: Black cats have always had a bad rap.
steph: so kind of this notion of shape shifting in that old traditional like folklore, they were kind of pulled out for that. definitely hung out with their witch, you know, guardians. And And were also animals that had access to that other world. So
Britt: I was gonna say cats are part of the liminal space for sure. They can cross back and forth. Mm-hmm.
steph: Yeah, and I think a lot of us who dig cats, yeah, and we can kind of see that. I mean, yeah, When my cat used to stare at places in the ceiling, I think so too. I think so too. So that's
Britt: Can't see things that aren't there, for sure. Yeah. Yeah.
steph: they're groovy animals. so yeah, so now we have this symbol of the witch, which of course extends way past just Celtic folklore,
Britt: Totally.
steph: and then you have this broom and this cat that kind of make her Her, a total specimen. And then yeah, yeah, and and being a symbol of Halloween now, yes, but I'm also not that again, just to restate, this is not directly from Celtic Samhain. It's kind
Britt: Mm-mm.
steph: of it was pretty general. And later on, all throughout the continental Europe, they were like, Look, she's got a black cat, you know, like get her. So she cleans her house. So yeah.
Britt: Right. Right. And in the thirteen original colonies. Okay, so my
steph: Good good old history.
Britt: my I gonna say my next favorite animal, but my next favorite Halloween-associated animal. My favorite animal at the zoo. Bats.
steph: Okay. Right. So bats being this nocturnal. Again, this is not terribly Samhain, but because there were huge bonfires at the festival, being a fire festival on the Wheel of the Year and in the Celtic tradition, sure, I think that there was just a recognition that bats are out at night. And so they were often characters at the bonefires. for no other reason than they're just real animals. So not a lot of research, not a lot of that they're helping with divination and whatnot. They were just present.
Britt: would say the the well I think the tie I think the tie between bats and Halloween is actually more recent past and ties to Dracula.
steph: sure. And Dracula
Britt: Yeah. Yeah.
steph: obviously comes from over on the other side of the continent, where that's their folklore, right? And so sure,
Britt: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
steph: when everyone starts coalescing and coming together as all these different immigrated folklores and traditions and stories, yeah, then you have Hollywood and marketing. So again, that's
Britt: Yeah. Well, that's all from a book first. I wanna try to stay like in some sort of like connected sense. So you said something in that response that I will is not on my list of things, but I will throw it out there. You said bone fires and bones skeletons. Definitely
steph: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Britt: a symbol here of of the holiday. what's a bone fire?
steph: Of death. A bonfire is the original word for bonfire.
Britt: Okay, but what I mean, what does that mean? Yeah.
steph: Because they would they would in in the s in the Celtic fire festival, they would slaughter their animals and then use the bones at the fire. to get rid of everything. They would they would they would
Britt: That's my questi that's my question.
steph: Yeah, so they referred to them as bone fires because that's what they would do with the slaughtered animals is throw them in there, obviously in a sense of protection and keeping the rest of the herd safe and using the whole animal. And so they would refer to it as a bone fire.
Britt: I'm st sitting here thinking like a dried out bone is probably like a dura flame log. It would probably burn for a good long time.
steph: Yeah, I guess. And and and those women and children that were up in the hills tending the herd, y I mean, sure, they probably walked down with I I would imagine, like, some bones from over the time that they were up there during the season.
Britt: Yeah. Yeah.
steph: obviously a skeleton, there were no skeleton decorations necessarily at Samhain.
Britt: No.
steph: Over over at Dia de los Muertos, it is this notion of like that's the depiction of death. Yeah, and on my altar all the time I have as many calacas as I can find, which are the actual skulls themselves, or or in the Mexican
Britt: Mm-hmm.
steph: tradition, there's there's there's huge
Britt: Sugar skulls.
steph: imagery and symbol of like well, you the movie Coco. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So it's just
Britt: It was playing at the emergency vet all day yesterday.
steph: this notion of they are in the other world or the afterlife, they would refer to it as,
Britt: Mm-hmm.
steph: you know, like wearing their clothes, at the party, playing their guitar, drinking their alcohol, like having a good time. Cause again we were trying
Britt: Yeah. Yeah.
steph: to not just be all sad and mourn like, someone died. It like, Hey, yeah, that's what happens. Mm-hmm.
Britt: Mm. Mm-hmm.
steph: Okay, next.
Britt: Well, let's just go right from there to our good old ghosts. I think this is a little bit of an obvious conversation, but let's have it.
steph: Yeah, just the fact that the veil opens up at this time of year and specifically do you remember mom teaching us all Hallows Eve?
Britt: No Hi, I'm the third child.
steph: it was one of its iterations. Yeah, it was one of the iterations like between Celtic traditional druids
Britt: Sure, yeah. Yeah.
steph: and then the church coming in. So it was one of one of the yeah, versions
Britt: Right.
steph: that it took on are the iterations. so ghosts are just this idea of right, if the veil's gonna open, how are we going to imagine to see a spirit? And it's not the only way. There are other ways, and we can get into that because that's gonna be something else. But a ghost was gonna be a depiction of one character that would show up from the other world. Mm-hmm.
Britt: Right. Right, right.
steph: Or spirit, when you try to draw spirit, what are you gonna draw? Right. And by this I mean spirit of the other
Britt: A zero.
steph: world and not spirit, right, and not like a universal spirit. Exactly. But when you get to
Britt: I've been paying attention.
steph: this time, yeah. When you get to this time in the ancestral world and cultures, yeah, how How else could you imagine something that's not necessarily walking and has funny little
Britt: Right, right,
steph: powers?
Britt: right. I'm gonna go because I'm as I'm going through this list, I'm realizing my studying actually is sticking because I'm gonna go from ghosts to costumes and I do know this one.
steph: Right. Right. So do you remember what the name for it was?
Britt: no.
steph: Okay. So it had a name and it had a reason. So because the veil lifts and the other world opens up and a bunch of spirits and ancestors, but like, yeah,
Britt: Good and bad. Mm-hmm.
steph: mostly spirits, trickster spirits, fay folk, everyone is coming over. So I don't want to be bothered by them. Cause I'm not quite sure who's going to be good and who's going to try to like, yeah,
Britt: Right. Who's good? Yep. Yep.
steph: who's going to be bad or who's going to haunt us or who's going to get stuck. but I also have to manage myself that day because we're all gonna go out to the bone fire and and and and so
Britt: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
steph: I'm gonna spend that day and I'm gonna dress I'm gonna I'm gonna participate in guising. And I'm gonna dress myself up so that I match in with all the spirits and all the fay
Britt: Mm-hmm.
steph: folk and whatnot, so that they don't know that I'm a real person because I don't want anyone to bother me. So that was the act of guising, and so everyone would use
Britt: Yeah. Yeah. I mm-hmm.
steph: it like a bourbon, like We're gonna make sure we guise tonight so that we don't get heckled.
Britt: Yeah. Yeah. I loved that. okay, so Americanizing this a little bit, just looking at my list of things, let's go from costumes to trick-or-treating.
steph: Yeah, do you know this?
Britt: I don't know this.
steph: Mm-hmm.
Britt: Yeah, no, I don't think I do have an idea of the tricks I think I have a little bit of a foundation, but I don't know.
steph: Well, so back in old Celtic. So I'm I I don't know a lot besides l anything that I've studied and learned about like the Mexican tradition with Dia de los Muertos, I have focused all my studying on yeah, Celtic origin stories. So back in the fire festival of Samhain, everyone is guising so that they don't get bothered by spirits. You also are leaving sweets
Britt: Mm.
steph: and whatnot outside your door in the hopes that as the spirits come by, if they're your family spirit, then treats at your door was the one way to say, hey, you're welcome. Like come on in. But those same treats were served for all the other spirits that are got that are going around all night long and playing tricks and doing their thing to like here, take a treat and like please leave this house alone. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So everyone have it out.
Britt: a snack and keep going. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I did read that oftentimes they would they would specifically and this as I was researching last week, I read this and it made this connection between Samhain and Dia de los Muertos in a way that I never had before. oftentimes apparently people would cook the foods that their that their past ones liked. And so it was like
steph: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Britt: they would put it out to entice their loved ones to come.
steph: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So another thing that would happen, yes to that. and I think we mentioned it on last week's episode with also something like the dumb supper.
Britt: Mm-hmm.
steph: Right. Was obviously, back then again, also it's not like they had major menus of meals, but obviously
Britt: Right.
steph: when I participate in this and with my kids, I do my best, for instance, to think about like what would Uncle John like. Sometimes like I'll always make chicken cacciatore like something that Baba would make all the time, where it's just kind of a family recipe. with that intention that yeah, and that's what I teach the kids. so yes, but back to the trigger treating. So yes, there was sweets and or. These meals on the door. But let's also go back. They these people didn't have a lot to waste, right? So it's not like you made a big meal and set it out on your door, and then you had a dumb supper and you did all that stuff. So you have these little biscuits or cookies or whatever that they would make
Britt: Mm-hmm.
steph: and leave them out so the spirits would go. Another thing that would take place through this guising is that poorer children or people would also go around and offer song. Or little sh like little acts, they would put on a tiny
Britt: Mm-hmm.
steph: little show, or they would sing songs, mostly songs. Sometimes also as it kind of started taking on its different iteration, like offer a prayer for like soul cakes. This is something else that they would make, because then kids would come up, offer a prayer for their dead ones to come back, and in return for the prayer for the family, they'd be given a cake, a little cookie, right?
Britt: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
steph: or you would sing a song for the family or something and So sure, that's the origin story of trick-or-treating. Because then this obviously came back, but when you migrate to a new culture in a new land and you're trying to keep this, but then all your neighbors start and and you have a bunch of different
Britt: Yeah.
steph: cultures coming together, and everyone's like, Isn't this just a party? And then somehow now we trick-or-treat.
Britt: Mm-hmm.
steph: But that definitely came from keeping spirits away from your house that were unwelcome. And the poor people of the village would go around and offer something. to start filling up pillowcases of cookies. What else is on your list?
Britt: Okay, so A couple more things left here. We're coming down to it. caramel
steph: Yeah cool.
Britt: apples. I know apples play a big role here historically, but caramel apples? Okay.
steph: Okay, Apples did play not Carmel, 'cause Carmel no, this is just circus, American Dent dental purposes.
Britt: So then the idea of caramel apples and bobbing for apples kinda come from the same foundation? Okay.
steph: No, that's what I'm saying. Caramel levels is just something we've created because we like to eat sugar.
Britt: okay. Okay.
steph: Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But apples, yes. Apples, yes. Bobbing for apples,
Britt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Apples.
steph: yes. So apples, of course, being one of these fruits from harvest, and this is the season of it. And
Britt: Mm-hmm. Totally.
steph: there there were two games to play because once you would go back, it wasn't all a somber evening. I mean, everyone the whole village needed
Britt: No, no, no.
steph: to extinguish their fires, and the whole village, at least for some win, so in Celtic. Folklore, the whole village goes out to the bonfires. you have divination happening for the village, everyone's putting their their bones on the fire, everybody's arranging their rock to see what's gonna happen in their year, everyone's bringing their herd so that everything can get protected, right? There's a lot of ritual happening. But then you drop down
Britt: Mm-hmm.
steph: to town and I hesitate to say there was a party, but folks had their dumb suppers and folks were Guysing around all night, kids would walk around and sing songs or say prayers for soul cakes, things of this nature, right? So there was one of the acts or one of the practices in an effort to, you know, tell the future or see what was going to happen, or quite frankly, pick your partner, would be either bobbing for apples in water, Or they would hang apple apples from a string. And so you would have to, that was the game to let well
Britt: And eat Yeah.
steph: to try to, get a bite of it, which probably isn't it doesn't seem terribly easy. But sure, that
Britt: N terribly difficult.
steph: was like a practice to that was specifically apples were specifically part of like union, you know. Because again, and I'm pretty sure we said this, this was also identified as the beginning of the year. Right? This is the next year cycle.
Britt: Right, right. We definitely did say that.
steph: So who am I gonna get married to this next year? and then you use an apple and apple even deep,
Britt: Why do apples
steph: because in deep, deep, deep tradition, deep, and so we're talking Greek, tr like old Greek, the the Sumerians, everyone sees the apple as it's fairly connected to like I believe Persephone. We can look that up.
Britt: Mm-hmm.
steph: in fact I will, like sensual goddess, fertility. let's actually see with
Britt: So that's why the connection basically.
steph: No, Persephone's not right. The it was Yeah, the apples connected. Most notably Aphrodite, the goddess of love and beauty, and a Norris, goddess of eternal youth. In Celtic, it was associated with apples as a symbol fertility. Yeah, so now I wanna say All these old ancestral cultures had their own story
Britt: Mm-hmm.
steph: where a goddess was definitely gifted an apple, kind of in this sign or show of love.
Britt: So it's the it's this symbol of union just because it's tied to women and fertility and is am am I understanding that correctly?
steph: Yeah, sure. Well, sure. And also, I mean, we also have to just go back into that other space of our brains with what was accessible at the time. No one's eating like fresas, no one's eating like strawberries and shit. It was like an apple or squash. What else do we have at this period of time, right? We're done with all the berries, we're done with all the flowers, apples, pears, kind of. But when we're talking about all these different places, I'm going to make an assumption. We could Google this. But it's more of a general seed to fruit. From the from the Norris North.
Britt: apples naturally come from apples apples naturally come from Germany. Every apple on the planet is from a single forest in Germany that spans between Germany and Poland. Yes. Yes, apples apples translate everywhere.
steph: Yeah, so so it was just the thing, yeah, and and and they're also more hardy. So I I I can't even get home from the market without busting one pear. I mean, I buy three or four and and definitely one never makes it home very well, right? Because it's not as hardy. So an apple, it's it's this, it's this accessible fruit that was happening in the area at the time, like literally the time of harvest. And so it was the one thing to use. Also because the squash that we're about to talk about was used for a different reason. Right, right, right.
Britt: Right. So let's talk about the squash. Which we use pumpkins. Old Irish
steph: Right.
Britt: used turnips.
steph: Right. Or whatever they had. turnip was obviously the big one. but yeah, sure. Whatever squash. Once they came over here and there was the North American version of a nice big orange pumpkin, sure, that's what they used. But so
Britt: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
steph: and do you know why that they like what did they why did they do this? Do you know?
Britt: I know there's a story behind it. I don't know how accurate it is. I'm like I know there's a a an a a tale.
steph: Yes, there are tales. and his name is Jack.
Britt: Stingy Jack.
steph: But the original reason for it, they were well, there are two reasons for it. So when everybody, we spoke about this last week, everybody needed to extinguish the fire in their own hearth. and again, this is just Celtic research or Celtic study. So you extinguish your fire and everyone shows up to the bone fire. And at the bone fire, in a sign of unity and a sign that the village is like strong together. We have our own origin story here with us. We're gonna start off the new year together. everyone needed a way to take an ember back to their house. And so they would carve out a turnip
Britt: Mm-hmm.
steph: to bring an ember back so that they could start their fire. They also realized, shit, with all these spirits and tricksters and all these people running around, I can only make so many cakes. So I certainly don't have for waste. So I'm gonna put a couple cakes out, but what if I carved a bunch of turnips? And made them really scary looking. And then I would put a little flame in there, ember, what have you, to make sure that I can scare off the spirits and the trickster fairies, right? So that
Britt: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
steph: was there, that's the absolute origin of let's make sure we cut into these squash family relatives. Yeah,
Britt: That's the human origin.
steph: to make sure that I can yeah, scare away anybody that doesn't belong. Also, again,
Britt: Mm-hmm.
steph: the just as the cakes and whatnot. It it's also understood that you would light a turnip or a squash or whatever, that you would light up your door so that your ancestors could find their way back home. So between their favorite little food or a little cookie or a little treat and then you light your threshold, they were able to make sure that they came into your house. Mm-hmm.
Britt: Lovely. Should should I tell the story of Stingy Jack so that we can end
steph: Yeah, I'm hoping I that is the one thing that I'm hoping the girls
Britt: the episode that way?
steph: are these the only things? is there really nothing else to talk about?
Britt: That's it, that's the end of the list.
steph: Okay, so yeah, why don't we? Why don't we hear the story of Stingy Jack? Yeah. Let's put in some music.
Britt: You want me to tell the story? Okay, so That's your job
steph: huh. But some we'll do it.
Britt: cue the tunes. okay, so there was a man. His name was Jack. He didn't like to spend his money, so he was known as Stingy Jack. Stingy Jack ran into the devil one day and convinced the devil to sit down for a beer. And when It came time to pay for said beers. Jack convinced the devil to turn himself into a coin so that he could pay for the beers with the devil coin, and then he could turn himself back into the devil and just wander
steph: Wanna grab it by you? stingy Jack isn't.
Britt: away, and they would get their beers for free. Except, so th isn't
steph: Clever guy.
Britt: he so? And Stingy Jack put said coin in his pocket next to silver coin. So th basically it trapped the devil,
steph: So he was trying to play a
Britt: trapped him in his pocket as a coin, and the devil couldn't escape.
steph: Silly Jack.
Britt: So eventually Jack let the devil free. And made a deal with him that you can't come for me for an entire year. Regardless of what happens, you gotta leave me alone for an entire year. You can't take me.
steph: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Britt: The devil says, fine, just turn me back into me. He turns him back into frees him from the coin.
steph: Mm-hmm.
Britt: So a year later, the devil finds himself a Jack, basically, and it's time to pay up. And somehow Jack convinces the devil to climb up into this tree and get that really great apple up there. So the devil
steph: Yeah.
Britt: climbs up into the tree and as he's up there retrieving said apple, Jack etches across into the bark of the tree and traps the devil again. I mean Jack's kind of a shit.
steph: Come on, Jack. Yeah, what is he? Okay. I just don't know what his end game is here.
Britt: I think Jack sorta just wants to live forever. He I think he just wants to,
steph: He doesn't want to have pay up. Okay. Okay.
Britt: Yeah. Longevity. So Jack convinces the devil to in order to get out of the tree, you gotta leave me alone for the next ten years. Just we've done this one year, I want ten more. And then we can hash it out from there, basically. The devil says, Fine, fine. Leaves him alone for ten years. Well Within the next couple of years, Jack gets sick and Jack dies. And he goes to heaven and heaven's like, you're a shit, Jack. So we sorta
steph: Yeah.
Britt: don't want the likes of you in the pearly gates. We're gonna need you to go.
steph: Right. Exit stage right. Yeah.
Britt: Right. And he gets down to hell, and the devil says, We had a deal and I can't take you. So I guess you're on your own. And the devil threw him. An ember of hellfire, if you will, which Jack put into his carved out turnip, and it lights
steph: Mm.
Britt: his way through the eternal darkness.
steph: Loves.
Britt: Yeah, it's a good story. I don't know why that's not more
steph: It is a good story.
Britt: readily shared, because it's a good story.
steph: W I just the yeah, it's yeah, I don't y this is where my it's not skepticism so much as just like meh about Halloween. Like, yeah, sure, why why don't we have Halloween stories? I guess we have ghost stories that people tell, but how did this not live?
Britt: Interestingly enough, I went a little bit further than that and said we as a society don't tend to be storytellers anymore.
steph: That's another episode.
Britt: I don't think it's specific to Halloween. I think that we just don't sh let me rephrase that. Our way of sharing stories and telling our things has
steph: Mm-hmm.
Britt: become social media.
steph: Well, so Britt, thanks for rounding us out. W well. Right, exactly. And so I
Britt: And so we are telling our story to the masses instead of like telling our story to our community and passing it on.
steph: did not know you were gonna do any of this. And so yeah, I guess, and I hate to even end this on a serious note, but that's really what I I guess I'm trying to revive. and it's not the whole idea of this podcast, but we're all storytellers.
Britt: It's a thread. Yeah.
steph: Yeah, it's a it's a it's a thread that goes through and I highly encourage all of us to yeah, keep that in mind. Keep it in mind when we come up to the holidays that you celebrate. And now
Britt: Mm.
steph: we have the Googles, so you can go find another story about Jack. Keep it in mind as we go along the wheel of the year, because when we tell stories and it doesn't have to be just to children, and I've sat in spaces where adults hang out to listen to the children's story as attentively as my eight-year-old would. So,
Britt: Totally.
steph: and obviously back in the day, telling stories was the only way to maintain that that that wisdom was passed down and that we shared and we taught and we educated. but yeah, we've absolutely lost it as an art and as a cultural practice. video killed the radio.
Britt: Yeah. I would even say as a a cultural foundation, I think it's it
steph: Sure.
Britt: it is yeah, it's so much more than just a practice. It is really like the thing that created culture in the first place, we've completely lost touch
steph: Yes, yes.
Britt: from.
steph: Yes. Thank you to all of our grandmothers, grandmothers, grandmothers, the grandmothers of all of our grandmothers, grandmothers. And so as we continue to weave our stories here, what a lovely way to end. There always be some encouragement for all of y'all out there to Consider the same. so that being said, hope you enjoyed the episode. Pass this along to your mothers.
Britt: Pause Where can they find us, Steph?
steph: Yeah, where can they find us? Brittany, Britney went and found like just a whole I don't know if it's like a it's it's not a detail. There's a better one. I mean it's
Britt: It's a very fascinating thing that we've done here.
steph: not fascinating, but it just seems so obvious. For those of you that have for those of you that know us personally, hey. For those of you that have been around since the beginning, the big inning,
Britt: Since March.
steph: thanks. We love you. Yeah.
Britt: It's true.
steph: So for those of you that can fathom, the fact Brittany went through cause sh I guess why? Cause you were irritated that you could never remember. Yeah.
Britt: 'Cause Brittany's trying to be an organized bitch this year.
steph: Yeah. So so obviously, what did you find? This is so obvious.
Britt: I found all of our accounts that I set up were set up with nineteen as numbers and all of the things that you set
steph: Yeah.
Britt: up were set up with nineteen written out. Which is why we're confusing here
steph: Yeah.
Britt: at the end of every episode.
steph: A little bit. When I go through and I fix when I go through and edit, I edit the text. If anyone out there like me throws captions on all the shit that you watch, I edit the text so that the things that are in numbers have numbers and things that have letters have letters. but obviously when Brittany told me that I like, Yeah, that's clear. I don't know. I've I'm a s I'm a second born, I'm a middle child. You and John definitely John
Britt: Ha ha
steph: would have I think Christian also did shit with numbers and it's like, Come on, you know. Letters are so lovely.
Britt: Sure. but I did also
steph: So
Britt: suss out that we did we did set up things in a way that makes it easy because all of our socials are with numbers. You can email the Gmail, you can find us on Instagram, and you can find us on TikTok at 19 Moons Podcast with numbers. But if you want to engage with the podcast on any podcast platform or on YouTube, it's Nineteen Moons with letters. So the actual production is with letters.
steph: So so Stephanie was involved of with naming the the way that people will see and hear us. Yeah.
Britt: The long form.
steph: And Brittany and Christian were involved, yeah, with all the fucking thirty second spindly spins.
Britt: In the short form.
steph: Okay, yeah, so that even makes more sense.
Britt: It makes all the sense in the world.
steph: darling, so this is coming out. Blessed, blessed, blessed Samhain. dudes, if anyone got inspired to put up an altar, put your put
Britt: We wanna see it. Yeah.
steph: Yeah, tag us in your socials. Because put it up and also pass the word. but
Britt: You don't even have to put it up on the socials. You don't even have to put it up on the socials if you don't wanna share it. But if I wanna see it, so you should email us a picture at the Gmail.
steph: Mm. Yeah, you can do yeah, sure. I sorry, if you don't want to share it, yeah. No one here is forcing that uncomfortable exposure. but if you wanted to set it up, tag the shit out of us, and as I always rem like p you like pass us on, subscribe, go check us out. Yeah, Britney and I have
Britt: Share us with your friends. Hmm.
steph: not seen each other for a couple weeks, literally, but then we showed up today looking exactly the same. I have my detail, you have yours. So That's fun to watch. and have a really lovely weekend. I it's I sound so old when I say be safe out there. if anyone's bobbing for apples in a vat of vodka, I'd love to see the picture of
Britt: Don't breathe deep.
steph: that. everybody have a
Britt: All right, guys.
steph: lovely weekend, have a good holiday and a blessed Samhain. We love you very much.
Britt: Okay.
