What Is The Panel?

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Welcome to Let's Talk, the Barnardo's Fostering and Adoption podcast.
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Each episode we will meet team members and families from right across our fostering and adoption services.
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We are hoping to get behind the scenes so we can learn what it's really like to foster or adopt.
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We are going to be talking about the panel.
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What is the panel?
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Who's on the panel?
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Why does the panel exist?
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So many questions, and I do not know the answers.
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But to answer these lovely questions for me are Sarah and Paul, and I'm going to get you both to introduce yourselves.
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I'm going to start with Sarah.
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Sarah, hello.
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Hello, good afternoon.
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Hi.
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I'm Sarah Morgan.
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I'm the assistant head of business for fostering and adoption in Wales and fostering in Midlands.
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I'm also the agency decision maker for both fostering services.
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So that would be my role kind of in terms of panel.
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You know what?
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That's uh I'm going to quickly just make a note of that because that term, the decision maker, we'll come back to that, Sarah, so that makes sense a bit later.
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And Paul, what about yourself?
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Hello.
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Yeah, good afternoon.
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I'm Paul Fanning.
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I'm a member of uh Barnardo's fostering and adoption panels.
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I'm an independent member.
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I'm also the vice chair.
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I stand in for the chair whenever she's not available.
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And um, just a little bit of context, I am a retired uh childcare social worker.
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Okay, so you have a background in that, which is going to help me in a little bit.
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So why don't we start with Sarah just initially, and both of you welcome, by the way.
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Um if I start with you, Sarah, what is the panel and what is its purpose?
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So the panel um plays a critical role really in approving um foster carers and um adopters, and it ensures it has a quality assurance mechanism and it has um it ensures that the families have the necessary skills to provide a high standard of care for children and young people that we're seeking families for.
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Do you want me to talk about the makeup?
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Yes, I think that would be really great.
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So it's made up from, like Paul was saying, he's an independent member.
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So it's made up with um some independent members and also some members of Barnardo's agency.
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We have to have, you know, in terms of you know, it's a regulated requirement for fostering and adoption services.
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So um we have to ensure that we have independent members on there.
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It can also um we also have a medical in terms of our Wales panel.
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I'm super proud of it.
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It's a really kind of robust, a robust panel makeup, but it also um they've come a long way and have lots and lots of experience, and it's a diverse mix mix of people.
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We also have a medical advisor on there.
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Some panels will have an educational advisor.
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Paul, correct me if I'm wrong.
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I don't think we have an educational rep, do we?
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Or do we not at the moment, not at the moment.
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We lost someone a year or two ago.
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That's a shame.
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But the good news is, Ness, that we do have um, we've just had a um uh a birth family member attending our panel.
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They've just been recruited and they observed last week on my right pause.
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So that's really, really exciting for us to have that kind of um, you know, voice and experience and knowledge on the panel and you know that bring to bring to life you know the experience of birth families.
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We're also recruiting um a young person to our um to our panel so that we'll have the voice of the child.
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Yeah, well that that that what Sarah says captures it all, I think, really.
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And I and and Sarah made mention of the fact that we have this new member of the panel who, uh, as she said is is a birth parent who, you know, sadly for her, had her children uh placed for adoption.
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But obviously that individual has been on a journey, and now she's in a position where she's able to contemplate making a mature contribution to an adoption panel from the perspective of someone who's lived through that experience.
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And, you know, I anticipate that she will bring insights and contributions to the panel, and she'll be able to talk about important issues about um adopted children having links with their birth family, um, which help them understand their identity in in the round, really.
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So, yeah, it's great to be that inclusive, it really is.
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Uh it adds for it adds meaning and value to what the panel does.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, brilliant.
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What you're describing to me is a panel of people who all have either direct lived experience or professional experience of working with looked after children.
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Is that pretty much summarizing roughly what I I think so.
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And we haven't actually said, but also we have a we have a a foster carer, a current foster carer on our fostering panel, for example, and someone who is doing it now and again has got that very real, uh, to use that expression, lived experience of what it is to be a foster carer of children who come into the care system and have who perhaps experienced you know disrupted relationships and trauma, and having the insight and the perspective when assessing new potential foster carers, having a someone's perspective who can talk about it is very, very useful indeed.
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I can understand why there would be that incredible level of information and experience in that room.
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I'm a baby potential foster carer and I'm a bit nervous about meeting all this expertise.
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When when do I first meet the panel?
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And what are they expecting of me?
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Um, can I just say as well, um I meant to mention earlier, also it's important to note the panel don't make the actual decision to approve an adopter or a foster carer, they just make recommendations to the agency decision maker.
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So, in terms of meeting, we do have a very friendly handbook in preparation for um your very own baby foster carer attending, um, so that they can actually they see um they can see a picture of the actual individuals and a synopsis really of their background and their membership and kind of the reasons um that that they are on panel and and also outlines really how the process will um, you know, how will that lost my words, how the process will kind of be for them.
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But but also um the panel will already have had the individual's assessment and have read it, and I've kind of devised their questions, which will they will put to panel chair and also um the panel advisor.
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And I believe now, Paul, that we're starting to, as a panel, put give be able to kind of formulate those questions and give them to the foster, potential foster families before they actually attend, because of you know, rightly so, people do get a little bit anxious and nervous.
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They just think that you know this is the end of my actual journey and it it's all counting on this day.
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Um, and it isn't really, but that's how it, you know, people will feel.
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So having the questions beforehand really helps them kind of to prepare and come into the panel.
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And I have to say, I observed the panel.
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Um, I think the beginning of the month, it's such a lovely balanced, friendly panel who really put questions over to people in just a just a really lovely, welcoming, warm way.
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Then, you know, they're not out to reassess anybody, they're just here to meet them really and to discuss their journey.
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I think that's a key point, isn't it, Sarah?
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Because I guess what you're saying is when they meet the panel, it's really at the end of that assessment process with the social worker.
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Are they going into panel knowing what they're being approved for?
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Are they at the point where they're going, right?
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I know I'm going in to be a short breaks carer or a long-term foster carer, or I'm thinking about siblings.
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Do they are they already going into panel with uh with an idea about what what kind of child or children they'd be appropriate for?
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Can I leave that one to you, Paul?
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Yeah, yeah.
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Um, well, the the social worker who will be doing the assessment with let's just say we'll talk about fostering now, but it kind of applies to adoption as well already.
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The social worker will have discussions with the fostering applicants at length about the different kinds of fostering.
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And as you've touched on, there would be fostering for uh short breaks, and there would be long-term and uh and there would be respite, which is slightly similar to short breaks.
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And and so they will have conversations pretty much early on in the assessment period, and then probably revisit that as they go through the period of the adoption assessment, and and maybe refine their thoughts um about what kind of fostering is is suited to them and what they're hoping to get.
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So there'll be a lot of thought and preparation, also advice from a supervised social worker as to what type of fostering a person should consider applying for, you know, taking it into consideration: do they have children already?
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Do they have um you know work professional commitments, do they have a busy lifestyle?
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What kind of um fostering would suit their skills and their and their lifestyle?
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And um, and so when they come to panel, the the rational behind that is well thought out.
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Panel may well decide to probe that a little bit just to get a clear sense of uh of why they've reached that that kind of kind of recommendation.
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And just also to add what you're building up what Sarah said a moment ago, uh the panel is friendly.
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Um you know, the the view I have, and I think all my colleagues on the panel is is that when people come to panel, they're bound to be a little bit nervous, a little bit jittery.
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Um and we do put them at their ease and ask the questions in a in a relaxed, you know, but probing way, because coming to panel should not be an ordeal.
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It should not be a bad experience, it should be a positive experience.
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And when we come to panel, we've already read the report, which is pretty much always of a high standard.
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Sometimes we we ask for a little bit of clarification here and there, but you know, when we meet applicants with a supervisor and social worker, we will have a very robust, comprehensive report.
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And then meeting applicants is just about well, it's not about rubber stamping, but it's about gentle probing and clarifying things.
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And it's also about giving the applicants the chance to ask the panel uh some questions which they might have, really.
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And and and and Sarah also said we make the recommendation, the agency decision maker makes the final decision.
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But I think Sarah would, I'm sure Sarah would agree that that obviously the panel's recommendation carries a lot of weight.
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Yeah, of course, because that's what we do and we take our role um very, very seriously.
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But I I I have to repeat, but we want we want people coming to panel to have a positive experience.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Yeah, really well, you know, explained.
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I was just gonna add on to what you were saying in terms of um whilst people come and they know what the recommendation is from their social worker, etc., sometimes, yeah, you you can kind of um have those kind of open discussions with family and say maybe you know you want to consider doing short breaks before you do long term, in terms of like you were saying, kind of the needs of their family as well as meeting the needs of the young person.
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And I think um also I think I was wanted to make the point really that when new applicants come to uh the fostering panel, they will have been prepared by this by the social worker, there's a lot of discussion, and as Sarah said, uh they will have read the booklet and read about the panel composition and seen photographs of it all.
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Um and the panel is very careful to make people feel well welcome, and it's about making people feel at ease.
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Um, and uh, you know, I think we all feel very strongly that coming to the panel should not be an ordeal for applicants.
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I mean they're bound to be nervous and a little bit jittery on the day, it's just natural, but um coming to panel is a momentous occasion, and uh but it it's meant to be a positive affirming um experience.
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And we we try to make that happen really by asking questions which are relevant and also probing and but also respectful, you know.
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That's what we we try to do.
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Yeah.
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And not only do um do the panel members vote and make a recommendation for approval, but they can also make recommendations for the other aspects of support to be put in place or specific training, you know, what they feel they might have identified, or anything that they feel would be really useful for the fostering family in relation to their own children, as we're saying, you know.
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But we understand that fostering families are all made up of, you know, different, different people and different, you know, different homes, different lifestyles, etc.
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And sometimes, you know, there is some additional support necessary.
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Doesn't mean they can't make fantastic frosted parents, but there is a bit of extra kind of support that needs to be put in place.
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So I agree, you know, our our panel is really robust and looks at kind of not just how you know what type of children they'd be matched with, but what would what support is needed for those carers?
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And I think that's really important.
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It does sound very affirming and supportive.
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Do you ever have situations where um someone might have aspirations to, I don't know, foster long-term, a large sibling group, but actually you might be saying at the panel, let's start more modestly, let's start smaller to get you into the process of what it's like to be a foster carer.
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Does it does it work like that?
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Are you okay to answer that, Paul?
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I think it's more suitable for you in terms of your working as a member.
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Yeah, well, I think that I think Sarah will, you know, being being the expert in some in terms of regulations and and whatnot, I I think I'm correct in saying that people cannot apply to a foster more than three children.
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I think that's right, isn't it Sarah?
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Um they can they can if they're a sibling group, but yeah, three from different families.
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But I guess what um Vanessa is kind of indicating is you know, do they come in and say, oh look, you know, I want to and and you know it happens.
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Oh, I can do this, you know, I can take on a sibling group of three or four, and and panel will kind of I I I do think you are very fair and you'll never allow people to take on more than really that that would be manageable.
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So I think in instances like that, panel you know, we'll have those discussions with individuals and say, you know, well, maybe you know, as you're a newly approved kind of family, shall we consider one or two children in the first instance and then build up, you know, your experience, your knowledge and training?
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Uh, would I be right in saying that?
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I don't in fairness, I feel like um the assessing social workers are so experienced, so knowledgeable, and will already be guiding that.
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So it doesn't usually get presented.
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Yeah, it doesn't, does it?
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It doesn't usually get presented to panel in those scenarios.
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But I do think, you know, that you're able to work together with the assessing social worker and the family to get to um the the outcome that's really the best for the family.
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Yeah, the groundwork will already have been done as the assessing social worker and also the assessing social worker will have conversations with with his or her line manager and saying, you know, what is the way forward here for these these applicants or the single applicant, you know, chomping at the bit, keen to go for it.
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And and and sometimes you just have to say, well, hang on, let's take small steps.
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Yeah.
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But I think you know, you you're very you're very fair and kind of supportive when you have those conversations with individuals.
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I I don't feel like there's ever been anybody who've has left panel and had a poor experience.
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I I I you know I'd I'd be made aware of that.
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And I know that we do get lots of feedback from individuals, and it's always been super positive.
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You know, what we look for, I think, in holistically, um from people who apply to become foster cares, and also with doctors for that matter, is is people who have um learned from their life experiences and people who have reached maturity, and people who will approach uh everything in their life, but also uh fostering in a considered, thoughtful way, and being mindful about what they're taking on, about mindful what they want to do.
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So I think we will probably be surprised if someone came into the room and said, you know, I just want to start fostering five or six children, let me go for it.
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I think the kind of people who we want and and who come to panel gladly are people who are measured and considered and take advice and want to start out sensibly, um, bearing in mind their life skills and their experience.
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So it's it's kind of like the person in the round will will approach it or approach approach it in a mature way, I think.
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You know, I what I'm hearing clearly, apart from how warm and welcoming it is, is that ultimately we we all want it to succeed, don't we?
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This is fundamentally what it what it's all about.
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Um now then when people first come to panel, that's not the only time they will see the panel, is it?
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What when do they see the panel again?
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So um all all of our fostering and adoptive families are invited back then to their reviews.
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So um following approval, there will be an annual review then.
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And um they will come in the first in the first year, all the annual reviews are presented to panel, but then after the first year, it's only it's only every three years then best practice, isn't it, Paul?
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Yeah, yeah.
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Okay, so but uh sometimes carers, you know, choose not to come to panel and they say, especially the carers who've been with us 20 odd years, so oh, I've been there before, I've met them all, I've had cups of tea with them, biscuits, had a chat.
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But um, more often they like to come along and have a chat, don't they, and meet with you and kind of talk about their years of experience.
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And I think that's positive.
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But I think it's important to note that no, you know, no judgment is made if people tend, you know, who make the decision not to come along.
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That you know, we still go along with kind of the um the normal process in terms of approval.
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Now, earlier you said something, Sarah, about you being the decision maker.
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And I'm just wondering, wondering, now we've talked a little bit about what the panel do and what their purpose is, and and recommendations was the key word that Paul mentioned.
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They make recommendations.
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Do you want to say something about being the decision maker?
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Sure.
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So so um obviously we um I don't know if we mentioned earlier, but we do have as part of the panel makeup, we have a panel chair, so she will coordinate everybody and following the um following the assessments and all the additional checks being presented and panel members then voting, um they will then, you know, they will give their reasons for their vote as well, and the reasons why the a family should be approved or whether they should be re-approved if it's an annual review, and then um that is then recorded and sent to me.
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So I believe I have seven days then to um have the sight of the minutes, the reports, and etc.
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And as the agency decision then as the agency decision maker, I then make the final decision and letting families know.
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So on the day of panel, they'll be told what the recommendation is, and then they'll be assured that the agency decision maker will turn that round in seven days, and then they'll be notified in writing and by their social worker what my decision will be.
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Um, I have to be um fair.
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I've I've very rarely gone against a recommendation of my panel.
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I I feel I have a lot of confidence in the you know the panel.
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I feel it's robust, fair, and they carry out their roles to an excellent, an excellent standard.
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So um, yeah, it is very rare occasions.
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There could be an occasion where I make some recommendations um in terms of quality that they've already picked up and said, you know, can I ask the social worker to relook at this or a date here, etc.?
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But it's always picked up by my panel.
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So yeah.
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So that's my role.
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Yeah, it's a very important role indeed.
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Um, I want to thank you both for giving me this little insight into the panel process.
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And I hope it's helpful to anyone who's listening to it.
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And I suppose the last question for you both would be what tips or advice might you offer someone who's going through the assessment process at the moment and who knows that their first panel is looming, if you like.
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It's not really looming because you've made it quite clear it's very friendly, but as we've already acknowledged, it is nerve-wracking, isn't it, to meet a group of people, experts in the field.
00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:29.599
What would you suggest?
00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:39.359
I would just say, you know, you know, please, you I would actually I would say you've gone through the hardest part.
00:22:39.359 --> 00:22:41.920
The assessment is the hardest part of this journey.
00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:45.039
It's it's very intrusive for obvious reasons.
00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:53.680
We need to ensure that, you know, you're you're safe and you can provide a loving, caring home for, you know, the children that we're looking for families for.
00:22:53.680 --> 00:23:01.920
And the I think the the actual the panel is more about just affirming this assessment.
00:23:01.920 --> 00:23:14.480
And I I believe the focus is more upon the assessing social worker, really, and we're looking at maintaining the quality of the and and timeliness of the assessments and listening to their experience of the assessment.
00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:18.880
But it really isn't, you know, the hardest part for me, I would say, has been completed.
00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:24.960
They've opened themselves up, they've been open, honest, and transparent about their family, their family makeup.
00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:32.559
So um it is just a a day really to relax and chat and have a two-way process with the panel members.
00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:34.240
That would be my thoughts.
00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:35.759
Yeah, great.
00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:40.880
Um, and yeah, I think um, yeah, I agree with everything Sarah just said.
00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:50.160
And what I recall is that whenever we meet um foster carers, at the end we ask them, how was it for you?
00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:53.440
How did you find the assessment experience?
00:23:53.440 --> 00:23:59.440
And people almost always say, yes, it was very uh very probing.
00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:11.359
It really went into lots of things and asked us to talk and think about things which we hadn't really thought about for quite some time, or perhaps never so they find it really quite rigorous but positive.
00:24:11.359 --> 00:24:18.319
And some people even say that they find it therapeutic with a small t with a small t.
00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:19.920
I hear that a lot.
00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:20.319
Yeah.
00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:35.519
Um so I think that what people then when they come to panel, uh you know, they find that you know the the reports will have been read and thoroughly, and the questions will have been robust and thorough but respectful.
00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:58.640
Um, and I think the advice I would give to people is is that when you come to panel, you're gonna be invited to be part of um a child's life, and you're gonna be part, in a sense, you're gonna become part of Barnardos because you're gonna have a working relationship with Barnardos, you're gonna have a supervising social worker, you're gonna have a working relationship with the child's local authority social worker.
00:24:58.640 --> 00:25:13.680
So you're you're part of a network in caring for a child, and part of that network, part of that system will be supervision and support, and ongoing learning and reviews and reflecting on your practice.
00:25:13.680 --> 00:25:23.440
So it's very much a journey where you're encouraged to become a better and more experienced social worker over time.
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Because what one of the one of the great things about Barnardos is that they really do support the carers and nurture them and insist in a friendly way that they go on training and they promote self-development and improve their skills.
00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:40.559
Oh, I love that.
00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:42.559
Look forward to that.
00:25:43.119 --> 00:25:44.640
Yeah, I lovely, yes.
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:46.480
I think that's a great place to start.
00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:49.039
Yeah, thank you, Sarah and Paul.
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Thanks for listening to this episode of Let's Talk, the Barnardo's Fostering and Adoption podcast.
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To learn more about fostering and adoption with us, search for Barnardo's online or find the link in our programme description.