Jesse:
0:09
Friendship almost like means everything to me. And like I consider like a lot of my friends to be family
Lauren:
0:17
friendships are key protective factor when it comes to looking after our mental health. By being there for as listening to us supporting friends can prevent mental health problems developing or support with managing mental health problems, treatment and recovery.
Bethan:
0:29
One of my biggest learnings is that, just as with romantic relationships, you can and likely will walk away from a lot of friendships in your life. And that that is all right.
Jennie:
0:40
Hi, Welcome to Let's Talk mental health, where we get together with different people and experts to chat about mental health. We all have mental health and we can all experience mental health problems. So on this podcast, we explore the topics that can affect how we think and feel. I'm your host, Jenny Walker. We'd love to hear what you think of the podcast. So please do subscribe, like, share and comment wherever you get your podcasts. Today, we're talking about friendships, what they mean to us how they impact our well being and how to nurture a healthy friendship. At the Mental Health Foundation, we recently partnered with fasten and leaders unlocked to talk with young people about healthy relationships, romantic family and friendships. One thing that kept coming up in our discussions was that while there is lots of mental health advice for romantic and family relationships, there isn't a great deal out there about friendships. What we do know is that having strong stable and fulfilling relationships helps tackle feelings of loneliness, isolation, and improves our mental health. People who are more socially connected to family, friends or their community tend to be happier and physically healthier. Today we're speaking with two of the young people who were involved in these chats. Tyra and Jesse will also hear from Lauren McConkey, who works as a project manager in higher education at the Mental Health Foundation. Lastly, myself and our producer, Bethan Boswell will chat about our own experiences of mental health and friendship. If you'd like to join the conversation online, tag us at mental health on Twitter, or at mental health foundation on Instagram. You can also find us on Facebook and LinkedIn. Just a wee note for listeners. Today's episode has a little bit of background noise while we wait for our podcast studio to open. Thank you for bearing with us. And thanks to our guests for managing with building works in the background. Hi, Jesse. Hi, Tyra, thank you so much for joining us today. So you both took part in the discussions with fasten and leaders unlocked about healthy relationships. And today we're talking about friendships and mental health. Can you tell us what friendship means to you?
Tyra:
3:02
For me, I guess friendship means I always say having someone to lean on or but it's kind of like maybe a sense of community, having some having a connection with someone where you're able to express how you feel how and understand how they feel. And not only that, but also having the chance to I guess, experience life together.
Jesse:
3:37
Friendship, almost like means everything to me. And like I consider like a lot of my friends to be family and include entire Yeah, like, I'm able to sort of like lean on them and like rely upon them for like almost anything and then go to them for advice, like almost like you do that with a brother or like Sister,
Jennie:
4:05
I definitely agree with everything you're saying. Like I know, for me, when I feel closer to my friends or I see them more often or I feel supported by them. I feel like I'm better in other areas of my life. Like because my foundation is solid. I've got my friends behind me so you know, have more confidence about the world. And so we're often taught about the signs, I think particularly in relationships, probably romantic relationships, but we're taught about like looking out for red flags, or if our relationship is toxic, and we're less kind of encouraged to look for the healthy green flags. What are things you would look for if you were thinking about it, that stand out in our friendship that lets you know that it's healthy, what are the green flags,
Tyra:
4:46
being honest with yourself and then them accepting you for that? I think that's really good if you're able to be comfortable around your friends or whoever it is.
Jesse:
4:58
I think also I know The green flag is friends like being able to, I guess, accept you despite, like, your like pass or mistakes or just accepting you for who you are, and then actually, like, maybe addressing it, but then, you know, I guess, correcting you, or just giving you advice to, like, ensure that, you know, you become a better version of yourself without really imposing like any sort of, like, overbearing judgment upon like the situation, I feel. That's definitely a green flag.
Tyra:
5:46
Yeah, I definitely agree with that. I think if someone is able to be honest with you, even if the truth is brutal, and it's not what you want to hear, I think that's a great way for you to bond with someone where you can grow, and then they're able to help you do that. So I agree with that.
Jesse:
6:04
Yeah, I also feel like another green flag is, like your friends, really, truly like, acknowledging your sort of likes, and embracing everything that you find like joy in, even if they don't necessarily, like feel like the same way about certain things. Yeah, like having them, you know, like, be part of the things that you they enjoy is really like, something that I like, consider highly.
Tyra:
6:37
Yeah, and I think with that comes respect, like respect for who you are for respectful your identity, your culture, your sexuality, your background, and then accepting you kind of similar to what I said earlier, we're accepting you for not only who you are, but like what you represent as a person. I feel
Jennie:
7:01
like everything you're talking about just reminds me of the feeling of being seen. And you know, even if you don't, even if there's stuff for your friends that you're not necessarily interested in, but you remember that about them. It's so special, and like, vice versa, if you're like, oh my god, I remember that like that. It's so it's so nice. Yeah. So how does our healthy friendship help your well being,
Jesse:
7:26
it helps my well being in a lot of ways. Especially being young and still trying to, like, navigate, like my way through life, like being a student, a healthy friendship is, is essential, because I feel that a lot of the time you're almost almost kind of like questioning your like place in the world and like in reality in general. So I feel like your friends kind of, like ground you.
Tyra:
8:00
So when I was in uni, and I was going through a rough time, and my mental health wasn't the greatest, my friends, I don't know what I would have done without them. Shout to Jessica because Jesse's twin sister, she lived with me. And Julie also, there were a very reassuring support system at the time. And if I was feeling anxious, they were there to help me through that and reassure me that things were fine and going to be okay. And for for my well being, that would that did so much for it because it kept me I guess, like, I think without that, I don't know how I would have like been able to get up and like go to the library or go to lectures or do what I needed to do. Because they were my support system at the time. I was away from home. I wasn't with my brothers and sisters or my my parents. So yeah, they just provided that reassurance to me. And support that really helped me through a rough time.
Jennie:
9:10
That strengthens your friendship as well. I guess just looking back on not only the good memories you have together, but the stuff you went through that was hard and you support each other through that can really bring you close. So how would you say your friendships are different from other relationships in your life?
Tyra:
9:26
I would say that my friendships are probably the most consistent. I mean, there's times where you have rough patches with your friends and like you would have like a brother or a sister, or with a romantic partner but with a friend. I've never had like a friendship breakup or anything like that. I've never experienced that. I've grown apart from friends. But not to the extent of like when I wouldn't consider them no longer friends like maybe they're just a distant friends. Yeah, yeah, and I guess maybe that differs to other relationships. Because I guess with romantic relationships, if there is a breakup, most times people don't maintain a friendship. With family relationships, even I guess if you don't have a good relationship with your family, you're still family, but you might not still communicate or anything like that. But I think with friendships, that is something I it's just, I guess, has remained constant.
Jesse:
10:31
Friendships are almost out of like choice. And you can kind of, by Tuesday to be friends with someone or not. Whereas like with that mean, you could need choose your partner. And like, where you work and all of that, but like, not like family, but I mean, like friendships are, like, different in the sense that like that, like Tyra said that almost like consistent, and you almost have a different level of understanding in a friendship. Just yeah, purely down to the fact that it's our choice. And you kind of just Yes, seek things that are different. And, and, like, share different things with your friends, where like, you wouldn't be able to share like with, like a family member or like work colleague or your partner sometimes. And yeah, like, just with friendships, you're almost giving your all in, in a different way. Yeah, you can just Yeah, almost be free in a different way. And yes, it's liberating in that sense.
Jennie:
11:49
Yeah, you can I feel like with my friends, I can admit stuff to them that I wouldn't feel comfortable sharing with anyone you know? And it's like, you're, yeah, that your chosen family, aren't they? And do you think within that with your friendships, do you ever think about boundaries or respecting the other person's needs in a friendship? Do you think about that a lot? Or do you think it's much more like free flowing,
Jesse:
12:11
I can speak from, like, recent experience, a recent experience, actually. So my, that one of my good friends that I used to work with, like, we're both kind of, like, busy at the moment, and like, just with like, our own sort of like projects, and that work in that stadium and stuff like that. And because of that, like we kind of been, like, distant. But I, we realized that, like, it's nothing personal at all, like really, and truly, because we kind of, you know, just realize that the kind of people we are and the level of expectations, we like both set ourself, we have given like each other like the space and like time to, you know, do our own things without like feeling a type of way about it.
Jennie:
13:06
I feel like the best friendships are the ones where you don't see each other in Egypt for ages, and then you pick up exactly where you left. Yeah, yeah, that's a great point,
Tyra:
13:15
I guess from for myself. And like my other friendships, I'm quite an emotional person when it comes to my friendships. So I know that if I feel like I need to run, or I need to express myself, I should be able to check in with a friend and see how they are feeling and make sure they're in a good position to be able to hear my emotional run or outputs, because you and I think that's a healthy relationship to have. Because I don't want my friends mental health to be affected because of whatever I'm going through.
Jennie:
13:51
Sometimes friendships, just like any relationship can be unhealthy or toxic for us. Have you ever had an experience of that in a friendship? And how did you deal with that?
Tyra:
14:02
It's a really tricky line, because I rarely ever experienced that. And I'm, I guess, I'm still kind of figuring out how you even like, have a friendship breakup? Like do you distance yourself from the person? Do you tell the person Hey, like, I'm really not into this anymore? Like, no one knows. Well, I don't know how to go about.
Jennie:
14:29
There's no handbook.
Tyra:
14:31
I guess ending things for a friend if you think they've been toxic in your life. Especially if it's something that's been building up, and there hasn't been like one set thing, and it's like, you don't want to go to the person and be like, Hey, back in 2016 You did this to me, and it still made me feel a certain type of way. I've rarely ever experienced it in any of my other friendships. But I have had the experience of someone who has not been And the greatest friend, but I don't know how to go about talking to them about it.
Jesse:
15:10
I feel like I kind of have had, like, a very friendship that it's kind of just ended, but like without anything being said. And yeah, like it was, it kind of really affected me because, like, I was close to this person for like, a long time. Like, during my secondary school and for like whatever reason, like stuff happened between like, our friendship, like people within our friendship group, but then like that The issue wasn't between like men, that other person, but then it was almost because of what happened. They, like, you know, felt the need to just stop speaking to me, and I didn't really understand it. And it can really like sort of affect you in a way where like, you kind of question like yourself, and yeah, like it just it just doesn't really make sense. And it doesn't sit well with review, because it's how you don't know how to address that person. Or like whether you should bring it up as a situation because in your head, it's a situation but in reality, it's not. So how do you go about it?
Tyra:
16:29
I think if it's a situation in your head, it's still a situation in reality, because if it matters to you, I think that's very real. And it should probably matter to other person, even if they don't know about it. But I was going to ask, do you think it was difficult because maybe there was no communication or like, there was no conversation that was had between you and this other friend or other person.
Jesse:
16:52
It kinda happened towards the end of like, sixth form, and then they were still friends. But I'd be born obviously as close because of the situation. But then, I guess, because we both that went to that university, and that it was just kind of easy to let go. Because you're just in new spaces, you're meeting new people, new environment is so almost an opportunity to, you know, like, free yourself from whatever situations you have, like back at home and whatnot. And, and yeah, because of that, like, it did make the situation sort of easier for the person and me to kind of just let go. But then at the same time, the situation's still there. So
Jennie:
17:46
you're still in your mind. Do you still know what happened? Yeah, okay, you don't have to bump into each other at school. But it's that kind of, I just wish I could know for sure what you thought about the situation. Rather than playing out in my mind, again, without closure,
Tyra:
18:02
for me in terms of like this situation that I've gone through, I'm going through, it's kind of like I actually have had a conversation with this person. And I've said that I've, I've, like moved past it, but I don't think I have. So that's why it's like the problem now because it's like I've said, I'm like kind of alright with it. Like I've moved past whatever happened. But I don't think I have and I still feel like it affects me and I don't want to bring it up again. Because it's like, we've already had the conversation. So.
Jennie:
18:31
Okay, I have one last question for you both. Thank you so much for your time today. It's been such a joy chatting to both. What do you think your friendships have taught you about yourself as people?
Tyra:
18:42
That's a good one. I think for myself, I guess I guess your friendships don't always teach you things you like about yourself. But I can definitely Well, I would say definitely but I will say that maybe I am the sort of person who needs some level of reassurance and I guess people don't really like saying that out loud. I don't really like saying this out loud right now. But I know that my friends they've definitely like I was saying before, been able to reroute reassure me about the different worries I've had or anxieties that I've had. I guess what they've taught me about what I need from relationships is some level of reassurance. Not saying that I need it all the time. But there might be times where I do worry unnecessarily. But I guess it's also taught me that I do value like my relationships with others and I value connection with people. So I do like reaching out and making new connections with others, even outside my friendship group and I think I can be quite an understanding person, if someone is having a difficult time and be able to support others as well.
Jesse:
20:13
I feel that my friendships have almost like taught me that, like, I can, you know, be a better version of me like always. And because of that, like I've been able to, like, do so many things that I thought I couldn't do. And yeah, like I feel that, my friends my friendships have taught me that I'm not so just not to, I guess hold back and anything can, you know, always try and be the best version of yourself.
Jennie:
20:59
The foundation has been mapping the mental health of the UK throughout the pandemic. In March 2020. We found that of those surveyed 18 to 24 year olds were experiencing high levels of loneliness. In June 2021, we found that 64% of teenagers surveyed said that they sometimes or often had no one to talk to, and 66% said that they sometimes or often felt alone. Our head of research, Catherine Seymour, said that of all the findings, loneliness is especially significant because it suggests a lack of the nourishing relationships that help teenagers to cope with difficult times. Loneliness leaves them more vulnerable. Lauren, you work in the families, children and young people's team at the foundation. And today we want to talk to you about how healthy friendships can be a part of the nourishing relationships that help young people's well being. So our first question is how can friendship benefit our mental health?
Lauren:
22:05
Yeah, so there's evidence that people who are more socially connected are happier, physically healthier and have fewer mental health problems than those were who live lives that are less well connected. So friendships can be a huge benefit to our mental health that good strong friendships can increase our sense of belonging and build our self esteem. Friendships are a key protective factor when it comes to looking after our mental health. By being there for as listening to us supporting friends can prevent mental health problems developing or support with managing mental health problems, treatment and recovery when they do occur. Something that came up when working with the young leaders, where we talked about this topic was that of all of our sort of our close connections, friends sit in a bit of a unique position. And the young leaders talked about feeling more comfortable talking about sensitive topics, and felt that they could be a bit more honest with friends and they could say family members. They talked about seeking support from friends, when having trouble in other relationships, such as romantic relationships or those family relationships. And I think that does carry on into adult life as well. So we should remember that it isn't just in helping us with difficult times. That makes friendships important in looking after our mental health. There are also the people you can have fun with that you can laugh and be like hide with an intern this reduces stress increases serotonin and boosts your energy levels. So having fun is good for your mental health and friends and most of our sort of immediate go to when we're looking for having fun.
Jennie:
23:34
Yeah, definitely. For myself, I think having fun is the most important thing for my mental health. And can you tell us why friendships are so important, particularly for young people's mental health?
Lauren:
23:43
Yeah, so along with everything that I've just said about being that support network and being the people that you have fun, that you have fun with. Young people are also most at risk of developing mental health problems because 75% of mental health problems start before the age of 24. So built in in that scaffolding to prevent mental health problems in your youth makes you less likely to suffer in the future and friends are really are an important part of that scaffolding. Young people also have less agency in their life when you compare them to adults. So young people might be born into a family situation that's not quite as supportive for their well being. And we don't get to choose our parents or our carers, but for young people, they can choose their friends. So picking a relationship with someone that they can, again, have fun with it, they confide in and relate to importantly, that is somebody who will be going through those same experiences that that they are. So that's really, really important. And just as you mentioned earlier, how we're seeing sort of high levels of loneliness in young people. Through various lockdowns and the pandemic it meant that socializing really did change for all of us and for many young people that was a period of little or even no social, physical, social contact with friends. And when you pair that If what I mentioned before about how talking about our feelings, is good for mental health and that young people are more likely to disclose a problem to a friend than they are a family member or a professional. You can sort of see how this increased loneliness. And isolation can have a really big impact on young people's friendships and on their mental health.
Jennie:
25:21
Being able to talk to friends that they feel close to and safe around is really a big part of that as well. And how can we make sure our friendships are healthy.
Lauren:
25:30
So it's not just about connection itself. So connection, obviously, is is a start. And that's great. But what you need to think about his the quality of those connections, quality over quantity is absolutely true when it comes to when it comes to healthy friendships. Like all relationships, friendships should make you feel safe and supported. And when we think of other relationships, and we're often told to look out for red flags, things that we should avoid and not have as part of our as part of our relationships. Think about what your green flags are with your friendships and your wider relationships. But think, is this a friendship? Where I feel listened to and supported? Do I trust that person? And can they trust me? Is it a reciprocal relationship? They're all hallmarks and green flags of healthy have healthy relationships?
Jennie:
26:21
And how can we recognize when a friendship isn't healthy for us? You know, the kind of opposite of green flags?
Lauren:
26:27
Yeah, so I guess on the on the contrary, if you find the idea of seeing a certain friend makes you feel anxious or nervous, or that you can't be yourself, they are usually usually signs this friendship might not be so so healthy. If a friendship feels sort of unsafe or crosses boundaries for you, you should remember that it is okay to walk away from that friendship. And that topic of ending friendships or friendships drifting apart is another thing that's quite unique about this kind of relationship over others. We're used to seeing and even experiencing romantic relationship breaks or breakups, whether that's because boundaries are being crossed, or feeling that you've built to change and a long, long, no longer compatible as humans were, but we rarely see the same in in our friendships. And that sort of came at one, we're talking to the young leaders about this ending of friendships, or that feeling that you've changed from a friend and not really knowing what to do with that, and how to how to deal how to deal with that feeling.
Jennie:
27:27
That's really interesting. And I'm aware, you know, everything we're talking about is social helpful. But what if somebody is listening? And they're thinking, I actually don't feel like I have friends? I don't feel like I have a lot of friends. What advice would you give to somebody who's struggling to make friends in the first place?
Lauren:
27:43
Yeah, I think this can be, I think, in the wake of pandemic, this can, this has been like a bit of a bit more of a hot topic for discussion. And I think the first thing to do is if a friendship is going to be a healthy one that's beneficial to you and your mental health, that you need to be able to be yourself. So starting with you accepting who you are, that's a really important first step. And then I'd say, putting yourself out there. So there's lots of different ways you can do this joining clubs, teams, volunteering, finding different ways of meeting people who might share some of the same interests that you do. Sometimes people say that they don't have the money or the time for that kind of thing. And, and that is totally understandable. I know that there's apps that are traditionally been used for dating that now have friend function. So that is definitely another another avenue that some people are using to try and reach out to new in different networks. Also, if that's not your, your kind of thing, I guess, think about your wider circle. So think of those, those wider connections with friends of friends and neighbors, people that you've met at work or university that you've got on well with, but it's never gone that much further, reach out to them for a walk or coffee or chat, something like that. I think instinctively we sort of recognize that relationships are important. But most of us are quite passive in our approach to building and maintaining friendships, we we kind of expect them and let them happen organically. But if we put more if we're more mindful and put effort into into the building and the maintaining of good relationships, then that'll be beneficial to us. In the long run. It can be quite scary. I think putting yourself out there to make new friends when you've got other commitments or you might feel sort of an increased fear of rejection when you're when you're older than when you were younger. But the benefits you'll get from those good these good friendships absolutely outweigh the fear or the awkwardness you might feel in putting yourself out there
Jennie:
29:47
so now I'm going to chat to Bethan Boswell, who is our producer on the podcast and a longtime host of the podcast before as well. Hi Bethan. Hi. So on the subject of friends Ships and mental health, what are the signs of a healthy relationship for you?
Bethan:
30:05
So I think, for me, the signs of a healthy friendship are relatively similar to the signs of any healthy relationship. To me, it feels like there should be consistency in how you expect to be treated across all of your relationships. And that's the same with friendships. So for me, there's the kind of basics such as feeling accepted, feeling respected. It being a kind of judgment free friendship, one where there's not a sense of obligation, but there is a sense that it's two way. Just things that make you feel kind of seen and heard, and good about yourself and good when you're with the other person. They're all much easier kind of said than done. But they do feel if you have some of those ingredients, then that's what makes it good. I don't know, what you find is good for you. To me. Yeah,
Jennie:
30:56
all of that. All of it. I think as well. It's interesting with different friends, I feel I am versions of myself, not that I'm changing. But it brings up different parts of me that I enjoy equally. So there are friends who will be kind of more introspective with and have lots of deep conversations. And then I've got other friends who I'll be totally hyper worth and run around, jump about with them. And it's that ability to be the like, freest version of yourself. I think that's such a healthy relationship for me, and not feeling like you're maybe treading on eggshells, or like knowing that everything comes from a place of good intent, like everything's coming from a place of love. So even if difficult stuff comes up in conversation, you know, that they only want the best for you. Yeah, and you only want the best for them.
Bethan:
31:41
Definitely. And I think it's such a lovely point on the different versions of yourselves, I think it is, as well as you wanting acceptance as you are also accepting of friends for who they are, which means they will bring out different sides of yourself and to really kind of be grateful in that moment for what you're able to express and who you're able to be together. Because there are definitely somewhere I can be incredibly hyperactive and silly. Somewhere that just wouldn't be appropriate at all. But I can have a really nice connection and a really lovely chat. Yeah, so yeah, I think that Yes, such a good point.
Jennie:
32:12
Yeah, all of them are valid. And I think able to if you're able to share quite vulnerable things, for instance, I like Right. And Lola, she's about that like memoir stuff. And I noticed who that's when I notice how much I trust someone is if I'll share that, because that's probably my most vulnerable thing. So if I share that with a friend, I'm like, Okay, I trust them a lot.
Bethan:
32:30
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. And how,
Jennie:
32:33
I guess a question for both of us. How have we found our friendships change with age?
Bethan:
32:38
So yeah, I found this a really interesting question. And quite sweet, because I thought about the difference from your friendships, when you're a small child to as they mature through your teenage years, and quite formative friendships to where I am today. And I think a big difference for me has been the focus on quality over quantity. And that's in terms of probably amount of friends, and also the amount of time spent spending with friends as well as I age. So I've really tried to consciously think about the people, I'm spending time with the people, because time is quite short, and life gets busier. So I like to make sure that I'm spending time with the people that make me feel good. And hopefully I make them feel good. And really try and treasure those friendships and keep them going. Compared to when I was little. And my kind of small world at the time, I thought would just those friendships would keep going forever, no matter what it was like this magical thing that you'd like Pinky swore you're going to be best friends. And that's just how it works. So I think probably the maturity of understanding that relationships take time, but also that there's conscious choice in it too.
Jennie:
33:46
Yeah, I think definitely. When I was younger, I think because I didn't have such a strong connection to my family, there was that instinct of like, need to have a tribe or I need to have people around me. So friendships had really high stakes for me. And I think as I've got older, I've realized that you can't put pressure on your friendships like that you need to have like, let them have space, you need to let yourself have space, you need to make sure your boundaries are a bit more healthy. And that No, they can't be everything. You know, they can't be your mom, your dad, your you know, we my friends have a friend group now we would call each other mom because we all have quite difficult relationships with our mums. So we're like, well, we'll be each other's moms like that scene and sex education, which is really nice. But also respecting that, you know, we're at that age where we know where how much, you know, pressure we shouldn't put on each other and make sure that we're supporting each other equally.
Bethan:
34:34
So I've been thinking a lot about friendships since we thought of this, this theme for the podcast and reflecting on what I've learned, not just about myself, but about friendships as well across the years. And I was wondering if there are kind of any key points that you've learned about yourself through your friendships, or your own well being?
Jennie:
34:58
Yeah, I've learned how much I rely on connection to feel good. Because I've been I am quite so I like enjoy time alone, like, I really need a lot of my own space. But I also have realized how much I rely on good connections and connections with people who are like me, because I think you go through a period of life, whether it's school uni, sometimes it's starting at new jobs where you maybe don't see your, your kind of origin friends or your friends you grew up with as much and you might have different friends. And you might find places in them that feel sounds cheesy, but feel like home or feel like you're home friends. And but there also can be periods of like, Oh, I'm not spending a lot of time with people who know the real me or see the real me and how important that is for your sense of identity for like affirming who you are, where you're going in life, how? And I said earlier, when I was speaking with Jesse and Taylor, that when I'm close with my core group of people who feel like my family, and we have really healthy connection, that's when I feel like a flourish and the rest of my life. Yeah, because I have that base that supports me.
Bethan:
35:59
Yeah, definitely. I think that's something that I really connect with, because there's been times for me, after university where I ended up in workplaces that maybe weren't workplaces that I didn't match in friendship groups, then that I didn't match. And where I was kind of annoyed or it was funny to kind of mock the things about me that I knew there was lots of other people out there in the world that was similar. Yeah, yeah. And then when I did manage to shift my workplace, and my environment and be around people who it's not just accepted me, but loved all those parts about me, it wasn't like a funny thing to pick on, it wasn't a bit of a joke. It was like a real connection, I realized just how much the absence of that had been affected have been affecting my self esteem. So similar to you, I think I've realized how much how important it is that quality of connection. And also, I think what that leads on to is one of my biggest learnings is that, just as with romantic relationships, you can and likely will walk away from a lot of friendships in your life. And that that is all right. And those particular ones which had formed at a time when people thought they were being loving with the mocking, but I just felt so unaccepted and I've walked away from, I felt so much better. surrounding myself with people where I accept them, they accept me. And you feel they love the things about you that are your favorite bits, and you love the things about them that are their favorite bits. And so I think that's probably been some of the hardest lessons for me have been the transitional years with making some new friendships that maybe weren't right, and then trying to navigate the way out of them. And I think if I'd known at the time, that as with a romantic relationship, if it's not right, it's going to be hard and you will experience grief, but you can walk away from friendships that aren't okay. And like you said, focus on those ones where you feel at home. Yeah, I think that's been a huge learning
Jennie:
37:59
Bethan. Thank you so much for this lovely chat. It's been great hearing about your own take on friendships and mental health.
Bethan:
38:05
Yeah, thank you, Jenny. It's been really nice to have a space to reflect on it.
Jennie:
38:15
Thank you to Tyra Jesse Lauren and Bethan for joining me on Let's Talk mental health. I have been your host, Jenny Walker. And I hope this episode has helped you think about your own friendships and how they impact your mental health. All of the resources we've mentioned in this episode are available in the podcast notes and on our website. We're continuing this conversation over on our social channels. So if you'd like to share your thoughts on friendships and mental health, remember to tag at the Mental Health Foundation. If you have been affected by any of the topics that have come up on today's podcast episode, then please remember that Samaritans are available 24/7 for free in the UK. All you have to do is call them on 116123 in the UK, and whatever you're going through, they're there to face it with you. Calm is the national helpline For anyone struggling to talk about any troubles they're feeling called boy 805 85858. Baby from 5pm to midnight, 365 days a year from the UK. If speaking on the phone is too difficult and you prefer to text then get in touch with Crisis Text Line by texting shout to 85258 If you're experiencing a personal crisis, or unable to cope and need support, they're there 24/7 If you yourself are feeling like ending your life, please call 999 right now or go to a&e and ask for the contact of the nearest crisis resolution team. These are teams of mental health care professionals who work with people and severe distress. If you would like more information on where to get support for your mental health, visit mental health.org.uk For Word slash getting hyphen help thank you so much for listening take care
0:09
Friendship almost like means everything to me. And like I consider like a lot of my friends to be family
Lauren:
0:17
friendships are key protective factor when it comes to looking after our mental health. By being there for as listening to us supporting friends can prevent mental health problems developing or support with managing mental health problems, treatment and recovery.
Bethan:
0:29
One of my biggest learnings is that, just as with romantic relationships, you can and likely will walk away from a lot of friendships in your life. And that that is all right.
Jennie:
0:40
Hi, Welcome to Let's Talk mental health, where we get together with different people and experts to chat about mental health. We all have mental health and we can all experience mental health problems. So on this podcast, we explore the topics that can affect how we think and feel. I'm your host, Jenny Walker. We'd love to hear what you think of the podcast. So please do subscribe, like, share and comment wherever you get your podcasts. Today, we're talking about friendships, what they mean to us how they impact our well being and how to nurture a healthy friendship. At the Mental Health Foundation, we recently partnered with fasten and leaders unlocked to talk with young people about healthy relationships, romantic family and friendships. One thing that kept coming up in our discussions was that while there is lots of mental health advice for romantic and family relationships, there isn't a great deal out there about friendships. What we do know is that having strong stable and fulfilling relationships helps tackle feelings of loneliness, isolation, and improves our mental health. People who are more socially connected to family, friends or their community tend to be happier and physically healthier. Today we're speaking with two of the young people who were involved in these chats. Tyra and Jesse will also hear from Lauren McConkey, who works as a project manager in higher education at the Mental Health Foundation. Lastly, myself and our producer, Bethan Boswell will chat about our own experiences of mental health and friendship. If you'd like to join the conversation online, tag us at mental health on Twitter, or at mental health foundation on Instagram. You can also find us on Facebook and LinkedIn. Just a wee note for listeners. Today's episode has a little bit of background noise while we wait for our podcast studio to open. Thank you for bearing with us. And thanks to our guests for managing with building works in the background. Hi, Jesse. Hi, Tyra, thank you so much for joining us today. So you both took part in the discussions with fasten and leaders unlocked about healthy relationships. And today we're talking about friendships and mental health. Can you tell us what friendship means to you?
Tyra:
3:02
For me, I guess friendship means I always say having someone to lean on or but it's kind of like maybe a sense of community, having some having a connection with someone where you're able to express how you feel how and understand how they feel. And not only that, but also having the chance to I guess, experience life together.
Jesse:
3:37
Friendship, almost like means everything to me. And like I consider like a lot of my friends to be family and include entire Yeah, like, I'm able to sort of like lean on them and like rely upon them for like almost anything and then go to them for advice, like almost like you do that with a brother or like Sister,
Jennie:
4:05
I definitely agree with everything you're saying. Like I know, for me, when I feel closer to my friends or I see them more often or I feel supported by them. I feel like I'm better in other areas of my life. Like because my foundation is solid. I've got my friends behind me so you know, have more confidence about the world. And so we're often taught about the signs, I think particularly in relationships, probably romantic relationships, but we're taught about like looking out for red flags, or if our relationship is toxic, and we're less kind of encouraged to look for the healthy green flags. What are things you would look for if you were thinking about it, that stand out in our friendship that lets you know that it's healthy, what are the green flags,
Tyra:
4:46
being honest with yourself and then them accepting you for that? I think that's really good if you're able to be comfortable around your friends or whoever it is.
Jesse:
4:58
I think also I know The green flag is friends like being able to, I guess, accept you despite, like, your like pass or mistakes or just accepting you for who you are, and then actually, like, maybe addressing it, but then, you know, I guess, correcting you, or just giving you advice to, like, ensure that, you know, you become a better version of yourself without really imposing like any sort of, like, overbearing judgment upon like the situation, I feel. That's definitely a green flag.
Tyra:
5:46
Yeah, I definitely agree with that. I think if someone is able to be honest with you, even if the truth is brutal, and it's not what you want to hear, I think that's a great way for you to bond with someone where you can grow, and then they're able to help you do that. So I agree with that.
Jesse:
6:04
Yeah, I also feel like another green flag is, like your friends, really, truly like, acknowledging your sort of likes, and embracing everything that you find like joy in, even if they don't necessarily, like feel like the same way about certain things. Yeah, like having them, you know, like, be part of the things that you they enjoy is really like, something that I like, consider highly.
Tyra:
6:37
Yeah, and I think with that comes respect, like respect for who you are for respectful your identity, your culture, your sexuality, your background, and then accepting you kind of similar to what I said earlier, we're accepting you for not only who you are, but like what you represent as a person. I feel
Jennie:
7:01
like everything you're talking about just reminds me of the feeling of being seen. And you know, even if you don't, even if there's stuff for your friends that you're not necessarily interested in, but you remember that about them. It's so special, and like, vice versa, if you're like, oh my god, I remember that like that. It's so it's so nice. Yeah. So how does our healthy friendship help your well being,
Jesse:
7:26
it helps my well being in a lot of ways. Especially being young and still trying to, like, navigate, like my way through life, like being a student, a healthy friendship is, is essential, because I feel that a lot of the time you're almost almost kind of like questioning your like place in the world and like in reality in general. So I feel like your friends kind of, like ground you.
Tyra:
8:00
So when I was in uni, and I was going through a rough time, and my mental health wasn't the greatest, my friends, I don't know what I would have done without them. Shout to Jessica because Jesse's twin sister, she lived with me. And Julie also, there were a very reassuring support system at the time. And if I was feeling anxious, they were there to help me through that and reassure me that things were fine and going to be okay. And for for my well being, that would that did so much for it because it kept me I guess, like, I think without that, I don't know how I would have like been able to get up and like go to the library or go to lectures or do what I needed to do. Because they were my support system at the time. I was away from home. I wasn't with my brothers and sisters or my my parents. So yeah, they just provided that reassurance to me. And support that really helped me through a rough time.
Jennie:
9:10
That strengthens your friendship as well. I guess just looking back on not only the good memories you have together, but the stuff you went through that was hard and you support each other through that can really bring you close. So how would you say your friendships are different from other relationships in your life?
Tyra:
9:26
I would say that my friendships are probably the most consistent. I mean, there's times where you have rough patches with your friends and like you would have like a brother or a sister, or with a romantic partner but with a friend. I've never had like a friendship breakup or anything like that. I've never experienced that. I've grown apart from friends. But not to the extent of like when I wouldn't consider them no longer friends like maybe they're just a distant friends. Yeah, yeah, and I guess maybe that differs to other relationships. Because I guess with romantic relationships, if there is a breakup, most times people don't maintain a friendship. With family relationships, even I guess if you don't have a good relationship with your family, you're still family, but you might not still communicate or anything like that. But I think with friendships, that is something I it's just, I guess, has remained constant.
Jesse:
10:31
Friendships are almost out of like choice. And you can kind of, by Tuesday to be friends with someone or not. Whereas like with that mean, you could need choose your partner. And like, where you work and all of that, but like, not like family, but I mean, like friendships are, like, different in the sense that like that, like Tyra said that almost like consistent, and you almost have a different level of understanding in a friendship. Just yeah, purely down to the fact that it's our choice. And you kind of just Yes, seek things that are different. And, and, like, share different things with your friends, where like, you wouldn't be able to share like with, like a family member or like work colleague or your partner sometimes. And yeah, like, just with friendships, you're almost giving your all in, in a different way. Yeah, you can just Yeah, almost be free in a different way. And yes, it's liberating in that sense.
Jennie:
11:49
Yeah, you can I feel like with my friends, I can admit stuff to them that I wouldn't feel comfortable sharing with anyone you know? And it's like, you're, yeah, that your chosen family, aren't they? And do you think within that with your friendships, do you ever think about boundaries or respecting the other person's needs in a friendship? Do you think about that a lot? Or do you think it's much more like free flowing,
Jesse:
12:11
I can speak from, like, recent experience, a recent experience, actually. So my, that one of my good friends that I used to work with, like, we're both kind of, like, busy at the moment, and like, just with like, our own sort of like projects, and that work in that stadium and stuff like that. And because of that, like we kind of been, like, distant. But I, we realized that, like, it's nothing personal at all, like really, and truly, because we kind of, you know, just realize that the kind of people we are and the level of expectations, we like both set ourself, we have given like each other like the space and like time to, you know, do our own things without like feeling a type of way about it.
Jennie:
13:06
I feel like the best friendships are the ones where you don't see each other in Egypt for ages, and then you pick up exactly where you left. Yeah, yeah, that's a great point,
Tyra:
13:15
I guess from for myself. And like my other friendships, I'm quite an emotional person when it comes to my friendships. So I know that if I feel like I need to run, or I need to express myself, I should be able to check in with a friend and see how they are feeling and make sure they're in a good position to be able to hear my emotional run or outputs, because you and I think that's a healthy relationship to have. Because I don't want my friends mental health to be affected because of whatever I'm going through.
Jennie:
13:51
Sometimes friendships, just like any relationship can be unhealthy or toxic for us. Have you ever had an experience of that in a friendship? And how did you deal with that?
Tyra:
14:02
It's a really tricky line, because I rarely ever experienced that. And I'm, I guess, I'm still kind of figuring out how you even like, have a friendship breakup? Like do you distance yourself from the person? Do you tell the person Hey, like, I'm really not into this anymore? Like, no one knows. Well, I don't know how to go about.
Jennie:
14:29
There's no handbook.
Tyra:
14:31
I guess ending things for a friend if you think they've been toxic in your life. Especially if it's something that's been building up, and there hasn't been like one set thing, and it's like, you don't want to go to the person and be like, Hey, back in 2016 You did this to me, and it still made me feel a certain type of way. I've rarely ever experienced it in any of my other friendships. But I have had the experience of someone who has not been And the greatest friend, but I don't know how to go about talking to them about it.
Jesse:
15:10
I feel like I kind of have had, like, a very friendship that it's kind of just ended, but like without anything being said. And yeah, like it was, it kind of really affected me because, like, I was close to this person for like, a long time. Like, during my secondary school and for like whatever reason, like stuff happened between like, our friendship, like people within our friendship group, but then like that The issue wasn't between like men, that other person, but then it was almost because of what happened. They, like, you know, felt the need to just stop speaking to me, and I didn't really understand it. And it can really like sort of affect you in a way where like, you kind of question like yourself, and yeah, like it just it just doesn't really make sense. And it doesn't sit well with review, because it's how you don't know how to address that person. Or like whether you should bring it up as a situation because in your head, it's a situation but in reality, it's not. So how do you go about it?
Tyra:
16:29
I think if it's a situation in your head, it's still a situation in reality, because if it matters to you, I think that's very real. And it should probably matter to other person, even if they don't know about it. But I was going to ask, do you think it was difficult because maybe there was no communication or like, there was no conversation that was had between you and this other friend or other person.
Jesse:
16:52
It kinda happened towards the end of like, sixth form, and then they were still friends. But I'd be born obviously as close because of the situation. But then, I guess, because we both that went to that university, and that it was just kind of easy to let go. Because you're just in new spaces, you're meeting new people, new environment is so almost an opportunity to, you know, like, free yourself from whatever situations you have, like back at home and whatnot. And, and yeah, because of that, like, it did make the situation sort of easier for the person and me to kind of just let go. But then at the same time, the situation's still there. So
Jennie:
17:46
you're still in your mind. Do you still know what happened? Yeah, okay, you don't have to bump into each other at school. But it's that kind of, I just wish I could know for sure what you thought about the situation. Rather than playing out in my mind, again, without closure,
Tyra:
18:02
for me in terms of like this situation that I've gone through, I'm going through, it's kind of like I actually have had a conversation with this person. And I've said that I've, I've, like moved past it, but I don't think I have. So that's why it's like the problem now because it's like I've said, I'm like kind of alright with it. Like I've moved past whatever happened. But I don't think I have and I still feel like it affects me and I don't want to bring it up again. Because it's like, we've already had the conversation. So.
Jennie:
18:31
Okay, I have one last question for you both. Thank you so much for your time today. It's been such a joy chatting to both. What do you think your friendships have taught you about yourself as people?
Tyra:
18:42
That's a good one. I think for myself, I guess I guess your friendships don't always teach you things you like about yourself. But I can definitely Well, I would say definitely but I will say that maybe I am the sort of person who needs some level of reassurance and I guess people don't really like saying that out loud. I don't really like saying this out loud right now. But I know that my friends they've definitely like I was saying before, been able to reroute reassure me about the different worries I've had or anxieties that I've had. I guess what they've taught me about what I need from relationships is some level of reassurance. Not saying that I need it all the time. But there might be times where I do worry unnecessarily. But I guess it's also taught me that I do value like my relationships with others and I value connection with people. So I do like reaching out and making new connections with others, even outside my friendship group and I think I can be quite an understanding person, if someone is having a difficult time and be able to support others as well.
Jesse:
20:13
I feel that my friendships have almost like taught me that, like, I can, you know, be a better version of me like always. And because of that, like I've been able to, like, do so many things that I thought I couldn't do. And yeah, like I feel that, my friends my friendships have taught me that I'm not so just not to, I guess hold back and anything can, you know, always try and be the best version of yourself.
Jennie:
20:59
The foundation has been mapping the mental health of the UK throughout the pandemic. In March 2020. We found that of those surveyed 18 to 24 year olds were experiencing high levels of loneliness. In June 2021, we found that 64% of teenagers surveyed said that they sometimes or often had no one to talk to, and 66% said that they sometimes or often felt alone. Our head of research, Catherine Seymour, said that of all the findings, loneliness is especially significant because it suggests a lack of the nourishing relationships that help teenagers to cope with difficult times. Loneliness leaves them more vulnerable. Lauren, you work in the families, children and young people's team at the foundation. And today we want to talk to you about how healthy friendships can be a part of the nourishing relationships that help young people's well being. So our first question is how can friendship benefit our mental health?
Lauren:
22:05
Yeah, so there's evidence that people who are more socially connected are happier, physically healthier and have fewer mental health problems than those were who live lives that are less well connected. So friendships can be a huge benefit to our mental health that good strong friendships can increase our sense of belonging and build our self esteem. Friendships are a key protective factor when it comes to looking after our mental health. By being there for as listening to us supporting friends can prevent mental health problems developing or support with managing mental health problems, treatment and recovery when they do occur. Something that came up when working with the young leaders, where we talked about this topic was that of all of our sort of our close connections, friends sit in a bit of a unique position. And the young leaders talked about feeling more comfortable talking about sensitive topics, and felt that they could be a bit more honest with friends and they could say family members. They talked about seeking support from friends, when having trouble in other relationships, such as romantic relationships or those family relationships. And I think that does carry on into adult life as well. So we should remember that it isn't just in helping us with difficult times. That makes friendships important in looking after our mental health. There are also the people you can have fun with that you can laugh and be like hide with an intern this reduces stress increases serotonin and boosts your energy levels. So having fun is good for your mental health and friends and most of our sort of immediate go to when we're looking for having fun.
Jennie:
23:34
Yeah, definitely. For myself, I think having fun is the most important thing for my mental health. And can you tell us why friendships are so important, particularly for young people's mental health?
Lauren:
23:43
Yeah, so along with everything that I've just said about being that support network and being the people that you have fun, that you have fun with. Young people are also most at risk of developing mental health problems because 75% of mental health problems start before the age of 24. So built in in that scaffolding to prevent mental health problems in your youth makes you less likely to suffer in the future and friends are really are an important part of that scaffolding. Young people also have less agency in their life when you compare them to adults. So young people might be born into a family situation that's not quite as supportive for their well being. And we don't get to choose our parents or our carers, but for young people, they can choose their friends. So picking a relationship with someone that they can, again, have fun with it, they confide in and relate to importantly, that is somebody who will be going through those same experiences that that they are. So that's really, really important. And just as you mentioned earlier, how we're seeing sort of high levels of loneliness in young people. Through various lockdowns and the pandemic it meant that socializing really did change for all of us and for many young people that was a period of little or even no social, physical, social contact with friends. And when you pair that If what I mentioned before about how talking about our feelings, is good for mental health and that young people are more likely to disclose a problem to a friend than they are a family member or a professional. You can sort of see how this increased loneliness. And isolation can have a really big impact on young people's friendships and on their mental health.
Jennie:
25:21
Being able to talk to friends that they feel close to and safe around is really a big part of that as well. And how can we make sure our friendships are healthy.
Lauren:
25:30
So it's not just about connection itself. So connection, obviously, is is a start. And that's great. But what you need to think about his the quality of those connections, quality over quantity is absolutely true when it comes to when it comes to healthy friendships. Like all relationships, friendships should make you feel safe and supported. And when we think of other relationships, and we're often told to look out for red flags, things that we should avoid and not have as part of our as part of our relationships. Think about what your green flags are with your friendships and your wider relationships. But think, is this a friendship? Where I feel listened to and supported? Do I trust that person? And can they trust me? Is it a reciprocal relationship? They're all hallmarks and green flags of healthy have healthy relationships?
Jennie:
26:21
And how can we recognize when a friendship isn't healthy for us? You know, the kind of opposite of green flags?
Lauren:
26:27
Yeah, so I guess on the on the contrary, if you find the idea of seeing a certain friend makes you feel anxious or nervous, or that you can't be yourself, they are usually usually signs this friendship might not be so so healthy. If a friendship feels sort of unsafe or crosses boundaries for you, you should remember that it is okay to walk away from that friendship. And that topic of ending friendships or friendships drifting apart is another thing that's quite unique about this kind of relationship over others. We're used to seeing and even experiencing romantic relationship breaks or breakups, whether that's because boundaries are being crossed, or feeling that you've built to change and a long, long, no longer compatible as humans were, but we rarely see the same in in our friendships. And that sort of came at one, we're talking to the young leaders about this ending of friendships, or that feeling that you've changed from a friend and not really knowing what to do with that, and how to how to deal how to deal with that feeling.
Jennie:
27:27
That's really interesting. And I'm aware, you know, everything we're talking about is social helpful. But what if somebody is listening? And they're thinking, I actually don't feel like I have friends? I don't feel like I have a lot of friends. What advice would you give to somebody who's struggling to make friends in the first place?
Lauren:
27:43
Yeah, I think this can be, I think, in the wake of pandemic, this can, this has been like a bit of a bit more of a hot topic for discussion. And I think the first thing to do is if a friendship is going to be a healthy one that's beneficial to you and your mental health, that you need to be able to be yourself. So starting with you accepting who you are, that's a really important first step. And then I'd say, putting yourself out there. So there's lots of different ways you can do this joining clubs, teams, volunteering, finding different ways of meeting people who might share some of the same interests that you do. Sometimes people say that they don't have the money or the time for that kind of thing. And, and that is totally understandable. I know that there's apps that are traditionally been used for dating that now have friend function. So that is definitely another another avenue that some people are using to try and reach out to new in different networks. Also, if that's not your, your kind of thing, I guess, think about your wider circle. So think of those, those wider connections with friends of friends and neighbors, people that you've met at work or university that you've got on well with, but it's never gone that much further, reach out to them for a walk or coffee or chat, something like that. I think instinctively we sort of recognize that relationships are important. But most of us are quite passive in our approach to building and maintaining friendships, we we kind of expect them and let them happen organically. But if we put more if we're more mindful and put effort into into the building and the maintaining of good relationships, then that'll be beneficial to us. In the long run. It can be quite scary. I think putting yourself out there to make new friends when you've got other commitments or you might feel sort of an increased fear of rejection when you're when you're older than when you were younger. But the benefits you'll get from those good these good friendships absolutely outweigh the fear or the awkwardness you might feel in putting yourself out there
Jennie:
29:47
so now I'm going to chat to Bethan Boswell, who is our producer on the podcast and a longtime host of the podcast before as well. Hi Bethan. Hi. So on the subject of friends Ships and mental health, what are the signs of a healthy relationship for you?
Bethan:
30:05
So I think, for me, the signs of a healthy friendship are relatively similar to the signs of any healthy relationship. To me, it feels like there should be consistency in how you expect to be treated across all of your relationships. And that's the same with friendships. So for me, there's the kind of basics such as feeling accepted, feeling respected. It being a kind of judgment free friendship, one where there's not a sense of obligation, but there is a sense that it's two way. Just things that make you feel kind of seen and heard, and good about yourself and good when you're with the other person. They're all much easier kind of said than done. But they do feel if you have some of those ingredients, then that's what makes it good. I don't know, what you find is good for you. To me. Yeah,
Jennie:
30:56
all of that. All of it. I think as well. It's interesting with different friends, I feel I am versions of myself, not that I'm changing. But it brings up different parts of me that I enjoy equally. So there are friends who will be kind of more introspective with and have lots of deep conversations. And then I've got other friends who I'll be totally hyper worth and run around, jump about with them. And it's that ability to be the like, freest version of yourself. I think that's such a healthy relationship for me, and not feeling like you're maybe treading on eggshells, or like knowing that everything comes from a place of good intent, like everything's coming from a place of love. So even if difficult stuff comes up in conversation, you know, that they only want the best for you. Yeah, and you only want the best for them.
Bethan:
31:41
Definitely. And I think it's such a lovely point on the different versions of yourselves, I think it is, as well as you wanting acceptance as you are also accepting of friends for who they are, which means they will bring out different sides of yourself and to really kind of be grateful in that moment for what you're able to express and who you're able to be together. Because there are definitely somewhere I can be incredibly hyperactive and silly. Somewhere that just wouldn't be appropriate at all. But I can have a really nice connection and a really lovely chat. Yeah, so yeah, I think that Yes, such a good point.
Jennie:
32:12
Yeah, all of them are valid. And I think able to if you're able to share quite vulnerable things, for instance, I like Right. And Lola, she's about that like memoir stuff. And I noticed who that's when I notice how much I trust someone is if I'll share that, because that's probably my most vulnerable thing. So if I share that with a friend, I'm like, Okay, I trust them a lot.
Bethan:
32:30
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. And how,
Jennie:
32:33
I guess a question for both of us. How have we found our friendships change with age?
Bethan:
32:38
So yeah, I found this a really interesting question. And quite sweet, because I thought about the difference from your friendships, when you're a small child to as they mature through your teenage years, and quite formative friendships to where I am today. And I think a big difference for me has been the focus on quality over quantity. And that's in terms of probably amount of friends, and also the amount of time spent spending with friends as well as I age. So I've really tried to consciously think about the people, I'm spending time with the people, because time is quite short, and life gets busier. So I like to make sure that I'm spending time with the people that make me feel good. And hopefully I make them feel good. And really try and treasure those friendships and keep them going. Compared to when I was little. And my kind of small world at the time, I thought would just those friendships would keep going forever, no matter what it was like this magical thing that you'd like Pinky swore you're going to be best friends. And that's just how it works. So I think probably the maturity of understanding that relationships take time, but also that there's conscious choice in it too.
Jennie:
33:46
Yeah, I think definitely. When I was younger, I think because I didn't have such a strong connection to my family, there was that instinct of like, need to have a tribe or I need to have people around me. So friendships had really high stakes for me. And I think as I've got older, I've realized that you can't put pressure on your friendships like that you need to have like, let them have space, you need to let yourself have space, you need to make sure your boundaries are a bit more healthy. And that No, they can't be everything. You know, they can't be your mom, your dad, your you know, we my friends have a friend group now we would call each other mom because we all have quite difficult relationships with our mums. So we're like, well, we'll be each other's moms like that scene and sex education, which is really nice. But also respecting that, you know, we're at that age where we know where how much, you know, pressure we shouldn't put on each other and make sure that we're supporting each other equally.
Bethan:
34:34
So I've been thinking a lot about friendships since we thought of this, this theme for the podcast and reflecting on what I've learned, not just about myself, but about friendships as well across the years. And I was wondering if there are kind of any key points that you've learned about yourself through your friendships, or your own well being?
Jennie:
34:58
Yeah, I've learned how much I rely on connection to feel good. Because I've been I am quite so I like enjoy time alone, like, I really need a lot of my own space. But I also have realized how much I rely on good connections and connections with people who are like me, because I think you go through a period of life, whether it's school uni, sometimes it's starting at new jobs where you maybe don't see your, your kind of origin friends or your friends you grew up with as much and you might have different friends. And you might find places in them that feel sounds cheesy, but feel like home or feel like you're home friends. And but there also can be periods of like, Oh, I'm not spending a lot of time with people who know the real me or see the real me and how important that is for your sense of identity for like affirming who you are, where you're going in life, how? And I said earlier, when I was speaking with Jesse and Taylor, that when I'm close with my core group of people who feel like my family, and we have really healthy connection, that's when I feel like a flourish and the rest of my life. Yeah, because I have that base that supports me.
Bethan:
35:59
Yeah, definitely. I think that's something that I really connect with, because there's been times for me, after university where I ended up in workplaces that maybe weren't workplaces that I didn't match in friendship groups, then that I didn't match. And where I was kind of annoyed or it was funny to kind of mock the things about me that I knew there was lots of other people out there in the world that was similar. Yeah, yeah. And then when I did manage to shift my workplace, and my environment and be around people who it's not just accepted me, but loved all those parts about me, it wasn't like a funny thing to pick on, it wasn't a bit of a joke. It was like a real connection, I realized just how much the absence of that had been affected have been affecting my self esteem. So similar to you, I think I've realized how much how important it is that quality of connection. And also, I think what that leads on to is one of my biggest learnings is that, just as with romantic relationships, you can and likely will walk away from a lot of friendships in your life. And that that is all right. And those particular ones which had formed at a time when people thought they were being loving with the mocking, but I just felt so unaccepted and I've walked away from, I felt so much better. surrounding myself with people where I accept them, they accept me. And you feel they love the things about you that are your favorite bits, and you love the things about them that are their favorite bits. And so I think that's probably been some of the hardest lessons for me have been the transitional years with making some new friendships that maybe weren't right, and then trying to navigate the way out of them. And I think if I'd known at the time, that as with a romantic relationship, if it's not right, it's going to be hard and you will experience grief, but you can walk away from friendships that aren't okay. And like you said, focus on those ones where you feel at home. Yeah, I think that's been a huge learning
Jennie:
37:59
Bethan. Thank you so much for this lovely chat. It's been great hearing about your own take on friendships and mental health.
Bethan:
38:05
Yeah, thank you, Jenny. It's been really nice to have a space to reflect on it.
Jennie:
38:15
Thank you to Tyra Jesse Lauren and Bethan for joining me on Let's Talk mental health. I have been your host, Jenny Walker. And I hope this episode has helped you think about your own friendships and how they impact your mental health. All of the resources we've mentioned in this episode are available in the podcast notes and on our website. We're continuing this conversation over on our social channels. So if you'd like to share your thoughts on friendships and mental health, remember to tag at the Mental Health Foundation. If you have been affected by any of the topics that have come up on today's podcast episode, then please remember that Samaritans are available 24/7 for free in the UK. All you have to do is call them on 116123 in the UK, and whatever you're going through, they're there to face it with you. Calm is the national helpline For anyone struggling to talk about any troubles they're feeling called boy 805 85858. Baby from 5pm to midnight, 365 days a year from the UK. If speaking on the phone is too difficult and you prefer to text then get in touch with Crisis Text Line by texting shout to 85258 If you're experiencing a personal crisis, or unable to cope and need support, they're there 24/7 If you yourself are feeling like ending your life, please call 999 right now or go to a&e and ask for the contact of the nearest crisis resolution team. These are teams of mental health care professionals who work with people and severe distress. If you would like more information on where to get support for your mental health, visit mental health.org.uk For Word slash getting hyphen help thank you so much for listening take care
