The Performance Code: Why Your Nervous System Matters More Than Mindset - Michael Allison

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Welcome to Inside Out Connections, where we explore the link between your skin, your gut, emotional health, and your deeper sense of self.
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I'm your host, Tracy Ann, a wellness coach exploring what it really means to reconnect from the inside out.
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We often think performance is about mindset, confidence, discipline, or mental toughness.
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But what if performance actually begins in the nervous system?
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Today's guest is Michael Allison, whose work centres around polyvagal theory, the vagus nerve, and understanding how nervous systems shapes the way we perform under pressure.
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Whether it's sport, business, public speaking, relationships, parenting, or simply navigating everyday stress.
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So many people are functioning from survival mode without even realizing it.
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And when the body doesn't feel safe, performance changes.
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Why do some people thrive under pressure while others freeze, spiral, overthink, or shut down completely?
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What actually happens in the body before competition, conflict, or high stress moments?
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And how do we begin working with the nervous system instead of constantly fighting against it?
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Today we explore the connection between nervous system and human performance.
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But in true inside-out connection style, this is also a conversation about self-awareness.
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Michael, welcome.
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I'm so thrilled to have you here today.
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I'm happy to be here.
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I really appreciate the offer and to see how this plays out together.
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So, Michael, when people think about performance, they often think mindset first.
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How much of performance is actually physiological?
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I think a huge part of it is I don't I wouldn't come up with a percentage, but when mindset works from my perspective, it's because it shifts the physiology into a state from which we can access our potential.
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From in a way it gets closer to mimicking maybe how we practice when we're not feeling a lot of pressure, right?
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When we're just relaxed and in more accurately a state of play.
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So mindset is helpful, right?
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Like I want to set an intention to be a certain way for our talk today, or I want to set an intention for walking into a difficult conversation.
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But how it really plays out really comes out of the physiology.
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And if we move into some pattern of protection, even with a mindset of yes, I want to be here, I want to be present, I want to be relaxed, I work with a lot of high achievers, and I think all of them go in with that intention.
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They all go in with the intention, oh, I just want to relax and enjoy this and have fun and and do my thing.
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And yet that's not often how it plays out.
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It's that real mind-body connection, isn't it?
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Mm-hmm.
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Mm-hmm.
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Yeah, it's a loop.
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I look at it as a loop, right?
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And the state, call it a mind-body state, is what ultimately determines how we act and interact and react.
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And the body, often, the nervous system more specifically, will respond and react long before we even become aware, right?
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Long before we've made a conscious or deliberate decision.
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And so in a way, we're playing catch up.
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And that mindset can help us come into it, you know, like my mindset would be I'm going to instead of saying I'm going to come into this in a certain state, my mindset shifted into I want to come into this and see what happens.
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I want to come into this and be accessible and to be able to be with whatever shows up in a way that might be helpful.
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That that's a different mindset that I try to teach to high performers, is it's no longer this is how I'm going to be.
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It's let's see, let's see what shows up.
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And how might I relate to that?
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How might I relate to that in a way that's helpful?
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So you're approaching it with curiosity more than going in because I think when you're heading into something with the mindset of right, this is how it's going to be, is like you said, it's that rigid thinking.
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And then that can send a message to the brain like this is panic, perhaps.
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Yeah.
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And curiosity instead of control.
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Or compassion with curiosity instead of control and making something happen or even making the body perform.
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Right.
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So the old paradigm is let's let's just dig in more.
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When things start going off the rails, just fight harder.
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Just try, try harder, bear down more.
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And the more that we understand how the brain and the body work together, the more we recognize that that actual approach will lead us on a trajectory of more disconnection and ultimately maybe implosion, right?
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We might self-implode because we keep pushing and trying to make our body do something that it's having a completely different reaction to the situation.
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And so until we come alongside that, until we meet the body where it is, good luck.
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Good luck.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, because it's only going to be sustainable for so long.
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That approach.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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Exactly.
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And it might, and a lot of us find success by in that approach, right?
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That is, that can lead to success by the way we measure success in in our culture, by the accumulation of resources, by the accumulation of money or power or status or influence.
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Bearing down and pushing and fighting and attacking and being the loudest voice in the room and being the most confrontational, it can carry people quite far.
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Right?
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It really can.
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I I I don't want to negate that.
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It it can.
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And that's part of why it continues to go and continues to be the method and the approach.
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But it's not very fulfilling.
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It's not, it's not ultimately sustainable.
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And eventually the body will speak more loudly until maybe it takes you down in one way or the other, whether it's burnout, whether it's actually you just can't do what you did anymore, whether it's just completely lack of fulfillment, you feel all alone, yet you've achieved all of these amazing things, and you're still there going, Well, what's next?
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Well, why does this not last?
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Why, why don't I feel any differently?
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And not even just impacting yourself.
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I would imagine that type of mindset in everyday life could impact everyone else around you as well.
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Yeah.
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Imagine, imagine being in a relationship with that, right?
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Imagine being with someone, whether it's your partner or your friend or your son or daughter, right?
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Or your coach, whoever it is, when that is the physiology and that is the mindset of I just need to keep doing more and bearing down harder and go, go, go, go, it doesn't leave a lot of room for connection.
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It doesn't leave much room for being in relationships with oneself or with others.
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That can lead to healthy, happy, and even the richness and joys of life, right?
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So we see it all the time.
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And in a way, it's it's the cultural message and it's also what has worked for a lot of people.
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And in a way, the way I frame this in my own life to be helpful in those that I work with, and for all walks, even people who wouldn't consider themselves high performers or high achievers, we're all still having to navigate this culture.
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And this culture is really rooted in competition, right?
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And comparison.
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We're constantly comparing ourselves to others and being compared to others and evaluation.
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Am I good enough?
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Am I doing enough?
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Was my performance enough?
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Right.
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And so no matter really what stage of life we're in or what we call ourselves, I think we're all wrapped into that culture.
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And a natural adaptive response is to lock into some pattern of protection.
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And that could be fight, that could be constantly busy, that could be I'm anxious and I'm I'm scattered, I don't know what to do, I'm all over the place, or it could be withdrawal and shutdown.
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It could be any of those patterns, or it could be really bouncing back and forth in different contexts.
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Yeah.
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So for people unfamiliar with polyvagal theory, can you explain it in simple terms?
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Oh, the million-dollar question.
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So the theory itself was developed by Dr.
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Stephen Porgis over a period of 40 or 50 years of research.
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He was funded by the National Institutes of Health.
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He's been with several different universities.
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And I'll just do it as succinctly as possible, because it is a complex theory, but the part that's very applicable, and we've already touched on is that our physiological state, which in layman's terms is how our heart is beating, the rhythms of our breath, how our organs are being regulated or not, how much muscle tension we have, how much energy we have flowing through our body, all of those things that are controlled autonomically by the autonomic nervous system, not consciously.
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Now, we can control our breath, we can control our muscle tension, we can do those things, but our physiological state, these changes that are occurring reflexively, that are regulated by the autonomic nervous system, that really shapes our moment-to-moment experience of the world.
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It shapes our thoughts, shapes our emotions, shapes our moods and our attitudes.
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And really importantly, it shapes how we act, how we interact, how we react.
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And so it's not only shaping how we are experiencing the world, it's really influencing how you, how everyone around us is experiencing us, right?
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So as we move through the world, and no matter what our role is, every other being that we're interacting with is picking up on our physiological state, whether they're trying to or not.
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It's just that's what is happening.
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And polyvagal theory really explains the mechanisms, explains how the vagus nerve in particular changed and adapted, and the brainstem structures that it's part of, how that all evolved so that we as social mammals could communicate, could cooperate, could actually build trust and collaborate.
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And that is what we are here to do, right?
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That that that is what polyvagal theory is explaining.
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It's explaining the neuroanatomy, the neurophysiology for how that occurs and why that not only feels good when we're having a happy and healthy interaction, but it explains why that is actually facilitating and fostering health and well-being and our recovery and feeding back into our capacity to have more of those trusting, healthy relationships.
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And so you get into this cycle of homeostasis supported by social relationship.
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So that is in a nutshell, it's no matter what we're doing, our nervous system is constantly detecting and adjusting our state.
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Our state shapes how we experience the world, which which shapes how the world experiences us.
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And at the end of the day, we're really craving and seeking safety and connection and trust.
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And that is what we're after.
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That's what our biology is craving.
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And this culture is in a way impeding on that.
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It's in opposition to that, right?
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When you're in a competitive performance-based culture, that's in a way opposing this feeling of connection and trust, just as we are.
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That's really interesting.
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And I loved how you touched on how we're seeking safety ultimately as it as the ultimate goal.
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And I know just myself from doing this podcasting when I have different guests on.
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I really noticed it yesterday.
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I had a lovely guest on, and I just instantly just felt so calm.
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Her voice was so soothing.
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She spoke with intention.
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Because she was that way, I instantly relaxed.
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And it is that sort of exchange, isn't it?
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Yeah.
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And it's happening.
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It's happening all of the time, right?
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And we, in a way, are taught to ignore that.
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We're taught to, oh, it's what someone says.
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It's the words they're using.
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Well, it's more than that, right?
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It's what you what you just described.
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It was her, it was her intonation in her voice.
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It was her body language, it was her facial expressions, it was how she was orienting to you.
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It was all of that wrapped up into this experience that what if we kind of look beneath your skin, we would see that your heart rate and breathing rhythms changed.
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You came into a different state of being that allowed you to feel that, wow, I feel really in connection with this person.
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I feel, I feel present, I feel engaged.
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And and that that is always happening either in that direction or the other direction.
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I want to kind of go away or I wanna, you know, and and so, but it can be not just with others, it can be with sounds.
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Like right now, you can't hear it, but my wife is deciding to grind something in a blender.
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And it's like extremely loud.
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And my neighbors are hammering too.
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I don't know if you can hear that as well.
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No, so Zoom does an amazing job.
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And yet that is a real challenge, even though I know what it is, right?
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Even though, even though I can again set the intention of be here, you know that's a blunder.
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You don't know why she's doing it because she knows you're doing this right now, right?
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In the other room.
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So that's, you know, you see, again, you get these stories, but what's triggering that, what's triggering that is that sound itself, because it's a very low frequency, grindy sound that our nervous system has evolved.
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Low frequency, kind of grindy sounds.
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It's like thunder.
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It's like the roar of a lion.
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It's it is meant to trigger a bodily reaction.
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It's meant to trigger a change in our heart rate.
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It's meant to bring us into alertness of like, what is that?
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So that's happening all of the time, right?
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And having that insight, at least for me, has been really, really helpful.
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And like you said, the stories behind it.
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So I don't know, you can, I think it's like an angle grinder outside.
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I can hear it now.
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It's like hearing the sound, it's like, oh no, what and then I go into the story of, oh no, how am I gonna edit that out?
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Is it gonna edit it out?
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What if it doesn't edit out?
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Yeah, what if it does we're gonna have to do it again?
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And then it you're totally distracted from being fully present.
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So yeah, that's really interesting.
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So a great teaching moment.
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And it happens, it happens all of the time.
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And so to me, what polyvagal theory really provided was first it provided that insight, right?
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So, and that insight is really, really helpful.
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And then from there, I could become aware, like even in this experience, I could become aware that that was triggering for me.
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Okay.
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So where do I go with my attention?
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So what you said is also what was really prevalent in a lot of us is we our attention goes right into our stories and we're fabricating these stories.
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And then next thing you know, we're we're lost in our mind.
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We're lost in all of that.
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And what the practice for me and what I try to teach is when that's happening, whether you're a professional player on the tennis court, whether I'm going in to talk to my wife after this podcast to find out why she did that.
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The point is to not get wrapped up in the story.
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Just stay in the bodily experience and then redirect attention to what else or who else could be settling, could be reassuring.
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So for me, I just was looking at your face.
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I was looking at your smile, I was looking at your eyes.
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I was trying to redirect my attention away from the story of what is happening into what else is available.
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What other cues of reassurance, of reliability, of safety, of connection can also coexist.
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So to me, it's coexisting.
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That can be going on, right?
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Just like the noise you're experiencing.
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And at the same time, there are also, hopefully, features, cues, signals available that can also coexist that can help us stay relatively accessible.
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It's not ideal, right?
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But it's closer.
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So as an example, I and I think I brought you an email regarding this.
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I had a young girl who was a motocross athlete and she was having issues with getting in her head right before the gun went off or whatever it was before she started the motocross.
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So in that moment of not being in her state, she was in her head, right?
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So would it be correct in right in that high pressure moment from a performance perspective?
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Like you said, you're connecting with me, with my eyes, with my smile, whatever, to get you back into that state.
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So for somebody performing as an athlete, in that moment, is it you're looking at the dirt, at your boots, at your handlebars, something to get you back in?
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Is that helpful?
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Yeah.
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So it can be any of those, all of those, none of those, and whatever that nervous system, that body welcomes.
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So you find the cues from my approach.
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If I try to help whoever I'm working with or myself, find the cues that my body in that state actually welcomes as reassuring or as reliable or as trustworthy or as safe, whatever word we want to use to.
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Like so, so for some really high performers, even the word safe is too, oh safe.
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That means I'm relaxed.
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And it's not what I'm talking about.
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Safe just means you're not, you're not doing this out of fear.
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You're not worried about the outcome.
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You're not focused on all of what could happen.
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You're actually in a body that's somewhat regulated.
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It doesn't mean you're not excited.
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It doesn't mean you don't have energy going.
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It actually just means that energy technically has rhythm to it.
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It has connection.
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Okay.
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So for this particular, what you're describing, could be feeling, you know, feeling the her hands on the handlebars, right?
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Feeling the gas, it could be feeling her feet on the ground.
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It could be adjusting her posture, could be relaxing the jaw, right?
00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:57.759
It could be softening the eyes because the cranial nerves that that regulate the muscles around our eyes and that either soften or tighten the jaw, those some of those branches from those cranial nerves go into this ventral vagal complex, which immediately change heart rate through the vagus.
00:20:57.920 --> 00:20:59.920
So that can be really helpful.
00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:07.519
It can be, you're always hearing certain sounds, but it could be a lot of people, a lot of athletes listen to music before they start, right?
00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:09.680
And that's deliberate.
00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:27.680
They're listening to music either to amp them up or to calm them down, and it changes because music and sound is also very powerful because again, those nerves that regulate the muscles that adjust which frequencies are really amplified or attenuated come into that vagus as well.
00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:33.440
So you find whatever cues can coexist that your body will welcome.
00:21:33.839 --> 00:21:35.519
So it's a sensory breathing.
00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:37.279
Yeah, a sensory cue.
00:21:37.599 --> 00:21:38.000
Yeah.
00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:41.039
Yeah, it can be all of the sensory stuff.
00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:46.400
It could be her looking at a her coach, right?
00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:48.319
So it also can be relational.
00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:48.880
Yeah.
00:21:49.039 --> 00:21:51.279
And it also can be internal.
00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:53.119
It can be breathing.
00:21:53.279 --> 00:21:55.200
It can be muscle tension.
00:21:55.359 --> 00:21:57.119
It can be a memory too.
00:21:57.200 --> 00:21:59.039
You can you can use your mind.
00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:01.839
You can Use the image, right?
00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:07.039
You can imagine yourself when you had a prior success.
00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:10.799
You can imagine somebody that loves you, that cares about you, win or lose.
00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:12.000
There's all different ways.
00:22:12.079 --> 00:22:15.759
So you can use the mind to help shift the body.
00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:26.079
You can use the body itself to help bring the body, the nervous system back in, or you can use relationships, or you can use sensory cues.
00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:26.480
Right.
00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:28.079
So all of the above.
00:22:28.240 --> 00:22:30.880
And in some cases, I would use all of the above.
00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:32.160
I'd use a mixture.
00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:34.960
I call that a container of safety.
00:22:35.119 --> 00:22:40.640
And you develop a very robust container of safety that is your go-to.
00:22:40.960 --> 00:22:43.200
And it might change on the context.
00:22:43.359 --> 00:22:46.480
It also might change depending on what state you're in.
00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:46.960
Right.
00:22:47.119 --> 00:22:59.279
And so for a high performer and a motocross, so again, all of these different like motocross, if you're looking at what they're doing, they're pretty high on their threshold.
00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:00.720
Their heart rate's pretty high.
00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:01.920
There's a lot of muscle tension.
00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:03.680
They're really maneuvering the bike.
00:23:03.839 --> 00:23:05.599
They're, they're passing each other.
00:23:05.680 --> 00:23:06.799
It's pretty intense.
00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:07.279
Okay.
00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:13.279
So they're likely at a higher heart rate sustained during that race.
00:23:13.519 --> 00:23:17.440
They have brakes and they come down, but they're at a higher heart rate than, say, a golfer.
00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:18.160
Right.
00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:19.519
Pretty big contrast.
00:23:19.599 --> 00:23:19.920
Okay.
00:23:20.160 --> 00:23:41.519
So she might want to allow herself to get going more, even as she's sitting there, but not in fear, not in panic, and not so much muscle tension and not letting the heart rate get so high as she's waiting that it disrupts her own sense of control and confidence.
00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:59.039
And what you're telling me is either her physiology has already crossed that threshold in anticipation of what's to come and now she's spiraling in her mind, or it was getting close and now she's spiraling in her mind, which is sending more cues back down, which are getting her past her threshold.
00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:21.839
So either way, interrupting that sequence that's occurring in her mind, that spiraling, and coming either into the body, into a relational cue, into a breath, even making sound, into seeing somebody else, into an image, having some routine, all of those things can interrupt that story, exacerbating her state.
00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:22.640
Yeah.
00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:23.519
Wow.
00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:26.079
What related for me was the jaw.
00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:29.119
I realized how much I clench my jaw.
00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:32.799
So as you were saying, soften the jaw, it's like, oh yeah, soften the jaw.
00:24:33.039 --> 00:24:38.240
And the eyes, because we can sort of lock in and strain and tense and clench.
00:24:38.559 --> 00:24:42.240
And you don't realize you're holding on until somebody says, let go of the jaw.
00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:43.839
It's like, oh that's right.
00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:44.319
Right.
00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:45.200
I am holding on the jaw.
00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:58.079
Now, in some cases, sometimes I will have someone deliberately tighten their jaw or tighten their eyes because they're moving more into withdrawal or they're moving into panic.
00:24:58.319 --> 00:25:06.720
And so, you know, instead of trying to relax and get into a state of play and calmness, that might be too far to go.
00:25:06.880 --> 00:25:11.039
And they might be more on the verge of collapse or withdrawal or numbness.
00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:18.880
And so in that case, I might actually have them grip, squeeze, tighten a, tighten a jaw, tighten the ice, right?
00:25:19.039 --> 00:25:26.000
Like get intense because they're they're moving into more of a collapse and withdrawal and numbing.
00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:33.359
That's not what she's doing, doesn't sound like but but there are there are plenty of high performers that have had that experience.
00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:38.559
I think it's of that point uh at giving up when they're about to give up and shut down.
00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:41.119
Yeah, and it's again, it's not conscious.
00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:43.119
It's not a deliberate decision, right?
00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:54.240
Like I was just meeting with a baseball player, started meeting with him a couple of weeks ago, and in when he was getting into the batter's box, he no longer was feeling any nerves.
00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:56.480
He wasn't feeling any any nerves.
00:25:56.559 --> 00:25:57.599
And he was confused.
00:25:57.759 --> 00:26:00.799
He's like, I but he's not been hitting at all, right?
00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:02.799
He hasn't, he's striking out all the time.
00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:06.400
Everything was going in the wrong direction, and he wasn't feeling any nerves.
00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:08.240
And he was thinking I should be more nervous.
00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:11.359
I but he was moving into withdrawal and collapse.
00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:25.359
And when we looked at everything that's been playing out, and we looked at how much evaluation he's constantly under, how much competition for his spot, right, for his position, what he's been going through.
00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:28.160
Once that was talked about, it made sense.
00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:30.799
Oh, I'm actually falling into collapse.
00:26:31.039 --> 00:26:31.359
Oh.
00:26:31.839 --> 00:26:32.160
Okay.
00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:37.519
So we can actually get yourself back alive instead of that retreating.
00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:39.440
And again, it wasn't a deliberate decision.
00:26:39.519 --> 00:26:40.799
He didn't decide.
00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:43.440
He had never waved the white flag and said, I'm done.
00:26:43.519 --> 00:26:45.119
That's not, it just he couldn't.
00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:47.680
He didn't even he was completely confused.
00:26:47.920 --> 00:26:50.240
Why, why am I not feeling any nerves?
00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:52.559
Yeah.
00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:52.880
Right.
00:26:53.200 --> 00:26:53.759
Interesting.
00:26:54.400 --> 00:26:55.599
And that's the path.
00:26:55.839 --> 00:26:56.640
That's the path.
00:26:56.799 --> 00:27:17.200
If if we don't even if we're successful, what we were talking about early on, even if we're pretty successful at navigating this race to acquire and this nonstop competitive, high performance everything, even if we're pretty successful, we might eventually fall into that, some version of that collapse.
00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:20.400
It might it might not be I don't feel anything.
00:27:20.559 --> 00:27:22.400
It might just be I'm not interested.
00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:26.160
I just don't have much interest in in much of anything, right?
00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:27.519
You might feel really alone.
00:27:27.680 --> 00:27:39.200
You might, you know, it it can play out in different types of emotions, but underneath those emotions, what we're really looking at is is this body moving into some withdrawal, some overwhelm.
00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:40.880
Yeah.
00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:48.960
So what does being in a dysregulated state actually feel like for an athlete?
00:27:50.880 --> 00:27:53.039
So it can feel different and different experiences.
00:27:53.200 --> 00:28:09.440
So if someone is dysregulated, but they're highly mobilized, like we were talking about, and they're spinning stories and they're just overly anxious and unsettled, or even on the verge of panic, it can feel like I'm really afraid.
00:28:09.680 --> 00:28:12.000
I'm really, really anxious.
00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:13.920
I'm really actually kind of scared.
00:28:14.079 --> 00:28:15.359
I don't know what's happening.
00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:17.039
I don't know why this is happening.
00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:20.400
This isn't how it was for me last year, right?
00:28:20.559 --> 00:28:23.119
Like often it creeps up over time.
00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:25.680
And sometimes it can occur.
00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:28.480
And let's expand this out beyond athletes too.
00:28:28.640 --> 00:28:33.920
Like in life, as you accumulate more, right?
00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:46.720
So if an athlete becomes better, they tend to hire a larger team or they tend to buy a bigger house, or they tend to, you know, they tend to have a family, just like we do in regular life.
00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:49.519
And so there are more people counting on them.
00:28:49.680 --> 00:28:56.559
There are more people relying on them to continue performing, or they might now perform on a bigger stage, right?
00:28:56.720 --> 00:29:02.720
And so little by little, their nervous system, their body is being exposed to more and more pressure.
00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:03.200
Right.
00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:07.680
And so now all of a sudden they're like, I'm feeling really anxious.
00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:11.440
I never felt this way before, or I'm not having any fun anymore.
00:29:11.599 --> 00:29:12.720
This is just no fun.
00:29:12.799 --> 00:29:13.039
Okay.
00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:18.720
So it can be those kinds of experiences, but they're still in a very mobilized body.
00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:19.200
Okay.
00:29:19.359 --> 00:29:22.480
So their heart rate's elevated, their muscle tensions going.
00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:25.839
You can see they're not connecting with people, but they're on the go.
00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:26.240
Okay.
00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:27.359
So that's one experience.
00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:31.759
And then you have the other experience, what we were talking about, where they're just disinterested.
00:29:31.839 --> 00:29:34.640
They're burned out, they're no longer having fun at all.
00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:37.279
They're not connecting with anyone or anything.
00:29:37.359 --> 00:29:39.519
And they're wondering why they play this game?
00:29:39.680 --> 00:29:41.519
What, why am I, why am I doing this?
00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:42.480
What's the point?
00:29:42.720 --> 00:29:48.160
But they're also trapped because their whole lifestyle and their identity has been built around this.
00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:50.160
And so they're very often confused.
00:29:50.480 --> 00:29:51.920
They don't understand.
00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:52.559
Right.
00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:58.319
And so each each of their individual experiences can be quite different.
00:29:58.559 --> 00:30:05.200
But when we look underneath, their physiology, their, their responses are not that different.
00:30:05.359 --> 00:30:14.640
They're either in some highly mobilized, but but really threat-oriented things aren't safe, or they're beginning to collapse and shut down.
00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:16.799
Or they're bouncing back and forth.
00:30:16.880 --> 00:30:19.039
They're really kind of moving in between.
00:30:24.160 --> 00:30:26.240
And so you start wherever you can.
00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:27.279
Yeah.
00:30:27.759 --> 00:30:35.920
And imagine there'd be long-term effects of either spectrum of those, the shutdown or the highly stressed.
00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:44.640
Either of those are not sustainable in any kind of performance from public speaking to a CEO of a company to an athlete.
00:30:45.279 --> 00:30:45.759
Mm-hmm.
00:30:46.319 --> 00:30:50.319
To being in just being just life performance, right?
00:30:50.559 --> 00:30:53.839
Just being a spouse or being a parent.
00:30:54.160 --> 00:30:54.720
Any of that.
00:30:54.880 --> 00:31:12.319
And again, I I think I think this game, I'm going to call it a game, even though it's not really a game, but this cultural game, we're all being asked to play in it that in similar ways to what these professional athletes are experiencing.
00:31:12.640 --> 00:31:14.160
They're not very different games.
00:31:14.240 --> 00:31:22.880
And in some cases, we, the normal everyday human, we're doing it without as much of a support team as they have.
00:31:23.200 --> 00:31:28.160
So at least some of these athletes have really great support teams.
00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:37.039
They have coaches, they have physios, they have trainers, they have bodyworkers, they have sports psychologists, they have, they often have a nice team.
00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:42.160
Not all of them, but often they have a nice team or they have teammates, right, that they're playing their sport with.
00:31:42.319 --> 00:31:48.640
And often I think we, as everyday humans, we don't have those teams.
00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:55.759
And if we look at what our biology, like we talked about earlier, we really want to be part of a team.
00:31:56.000 --> 00:31:56.240
Yeah.
00:31:56.480 --> 00:32:04.640
We really want to feel like we belong, like we're valued, like we're contributing, and that we're included, right?
00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:09.519
That we are we're we're liked and we're loved and and we're good enough.
00:32:09.759 --> 00:32:12.640
You know, it's that's that's really it.
00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:13.839
That's really it.
00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:39.279
It is you know, that's underneath that's underneath most of the drive and the hunger and the and the striving, is that and like my goal in all of this is to speak that message and to help all of us recognize what that's really doing to our bodies, to that mind-body connection or disconnection.
00:32:39.440 --> 00:32:46.799
Is it is it feeding us more and more trust and or is it moving us toward distrust?
00:32:47.039 --> 00:32:52.559
Is it feeding us with connection or is it moving us more toward disconnection?
00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:53.119
Right.
00:32:53.279 --> 00:32:59.119
And I I think it's very natural to move toward distrust and disconnection in this game.
00:32:59.359 --> 00:32:59.759
Yeah.
00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:08.319
And it's interesting, Michael, because yesterday I had somebody on the podcast and we spoke about community and how important community is.
00:33:09.680 --> 00:33:15.039
But my takeaway from it was it is more about that sense of belonging.
00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:20.960
That is the fundamental baseline to everything.
00:33:21.200 --> 00:33:25.680
And I think the more we understand that, the better off we are.
00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:27.519
Totally.
00:33:27.759 --> 00:33:28.000
Right.
00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:37.440
Because like you just said, uh we could we could be part, and there's books written about you know, still feeling lonely even when you're not alone.
00:33:37.599 --> 00:33:38.400
It's that belonging.
00:33:38.559 --> 00:33:39.119
Am I seen?
00:33:39.279 --> 00:33:40.400
Am I heard?
00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:41.119
Right?
00:33:41.359 --> 00:33:44.480
Do do I really feel understood?
00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:44.880
Yeah.
00:33:45.119 --> 00:33:45.839
Am I valued?
00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:47.039
Do I belong here?
00:33:47.279 --> 00:33:54.559
And it doesn't have to be large groups, it doesn't have to be every day, but it's vital.
00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:55.599
It's a key piece.
00:33:55.759 --> 00:34:02.559
And to me, that was the other part of what polyvagal theory helped me really understand why, why that's true.
00:34:02.880 --> 00:34:03.519
Yeah.
00:34:04.640 --> 00:34:06.960
So tell us about the play zone.
00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:10.079
How did that concept first come about?
00:34:12.079 --> 00:34:25.280
So when I first started reading about polyvagal theory about 10 years ago, I came at all of this from I owned a health and wellness center and performance center in Santa Barbara for 25 years, starting in 1999.
00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:43.360
And so when I started reading about polyvagal theory, it made sense to me of trauma and healing and all of that, and my own healing and how I was intuitively searching for connection and belonging, just like we talked about.
00:34:43.599 --> 00:34:54.960
But it also provided me with a template that I thought was a really solid template for health and well-being and performance.
00:34:55.199 --> 00:35:09.039
And I was working with a lot of general population people, but also athletes at the time, but training them how to move, how to eat, how to sleep, how to jump higher, how to run faster, how to develop more power.
00:35:09.280 --> 00:35:10.000
That's what I was doing.
00:35:10.159 --> 00:35:16.960
And when I started reading polybagal theory, I'm like, oh, but again, it's it's it's what's underneath all of that, right?
00:35:17.039 --> 00:35:24.960
Like you can develop all of those skills, you can develop all of the components that we deem important for performance.
00:35:25.199 --> 00:35:32.719
But again, at the end of the day, access to those components comes from the physiological state in the moment, right?
00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:37.440
And we've known that people, some people crumble under pressure, some people rise under pressure.
00:35:37.599 --> 00:35:41.280
Well, that's again, how is our physiology responding to the pressure?
00:35:41.440 --> 00:35:44.559
So to me, it was like, oh, this is a template.
00:35:44.719 --> 00:35:50.400
Now I understand really what I want to prepare in an athlete or a performer.
00:35:50.639 --> 00:35:54.320
And I want to prepare this physiological flexibility.
00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:56.079
I call it autonomic agility.
00:35:56.159 --> 00:36:07.920
I want to, uh, that's what I want to develop is this capacity to move through fluidly with intention, but also just reflexively through a wide range of states, right?
00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:14.559
A wide range of physiological states and a wide range of emotional experiences and all of that.
00:36:14.719 --> 00:36:16.960
So that is to me what resilience is.
00:36:17.119 --> 00:36:22.000
And the play zone, I created what I call the performance hierarchy.
00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:43.440
And from a performance perspective, this state of play, the play zone, where we are engaged and mobilized and we have energy and different levels of energy, some intense, some relax, but still energy is combined and blended with safety, connection, presence, the ability to communicate.
00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:52.239
If you're on stage, you're relating with the audience, if you're on a team, you're in sync with your teammates, if you're playing in a band, you're riffing off of each other, right?
00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:56.960
If you're on stage at improv, you're able to adapt and quickly change and all of that.
00:36:57.039 --> 00:36:58.239
That's the play zone.
00:36:58.400 --> 00:36:58.639
Yeah.
00:36:58.800 --> 00:37:07.440
And instead of seeking fight and intensity and just ramping up, we want to be able to ramp up and calm down.
00:37:07.599 --> 00:37:10.400
We want to be able to engage and then sit back.
00:37:10.559 --> 00:37:12.639
We want to be able to talk and then listen.
00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:14.079
That's the play zone.
00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:14.719
Yeah.
00:37:14.880 --> 00:37:16.480
So it's it's fluid.
00:37:16.880 --> 00:37:17.280
Fluid.
00:37:17.599 --> 00:37:27.519
I was visualizing water going down a a stream or rapids, but the water still moves through and can embody all of that and move through.
00:37:27.679 --> 00:37:28.000
Yeah.
00:37:28.159 --> 00:37:28.880
That was my visual.
00:37:29.360 --> 00:37:30.320
Yeah, and it beautiful.
00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:30.960
I love that.
00:37:31.039 --> 00:37:31.679
Thank you for that.
00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:32.960
That's exactly right.
00:37:33.039 --> 00:37:36.800
And depending on the terrain, it goes faster or slower.
00:37:36.880 --> 00:37:38.719
It moves and bends and all of that.
00:37:38.800 --> 00:37:39.440
It's beautiful.
00:37:39.519 --> 00:37:39.840
Thank you.
00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:40.639
I love I love that.
00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:42.320
I'll I'll I'll share that.
00:37:43.119 --> 00:37:49.039
So why is play and curiosity so important for human performance?
00:37:50.400 --> 00:38:00.159
So it goes back to our evolution and the difference between a social mammal and a reptile.
00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:11.280
And so in our nervous system, in our brainstem, in these very primitive survival networks, play is actually different than fight.
00:38:11.599 --> 00:38:14.960
Play is different than anxiety and moving away.
00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:18.159
Play is play is it's it's a different type of state.
00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:27.280
And what it's doing physiologically when we're in that state is we're actually allowing our heart rate to go up and down, but there's still rhythm.
00:38:27.440 --> 00:38:29.840
We hear a lot about heart rate variability.
00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:34.400
Well, in a state of play or the play zone, there's still some heart rate variability.
00:38:34.480 --> 00:38:36.960
It's not just all gone with a super high heart rate.
00:38:37.039 --> 00:38:38.960
There's actually some variability.
00:38:39.199 --> 00:38:40.639
So what does that mean?
00:38:40.880 --> 00:38:50.239
Well, that means we have not only flexibility like you just described, the water, that rhythm allows access to higher thinking.
00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:53.440
So we have more access to problem solving.
00:38:53.679 --> 00:38:57.840
That rhythm allows us to have rhythm in our connection with others.
00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:04.000
We can use our voice and our eyes and our orientation and even what we're listening to.
00:39:04.159 --> 00:39:07.119
We can communicate with each other that, hey, I'm safe.
00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:07.679
I'm with you.
00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:08.480
We're in sync.
00:39:08.559 --> 00:39:09.760
We're doing this together.
00:39:09.920 --> 00:39:10.239
Right.
00:39:10.400 --> 00:39:11.920
This is this is a game for us.
00:39:12.079 --> 00:39:13.280
We're playing together.
00:39:13.440 --> 00:39:17.199
Versus if I was locked in fight, I'd be cueing you.
00:39:17.440 --> 00:39:18.480
We're in this, okay?
00:39:18.639 --> 00:39:23.760
We're going after the same thing, but I'm I'm in a state of fight.
00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:25.440
It's not broadcasting connection.
00:39:25.519 --> 00:39:26.800
It's like, here we go.
00:39:27.119 --> 00:39:28.079
I might have your back.
00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:30.559
I might have your back, but we're not as flexible, right?
00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:34.800
So play offers complex problem solving.
00:39:34.880 --> 00:39:44.000
It offers creativity and spontaneity, which we don't have when we're too much in a state of fight or too sympathetically driven, sympathetic nervous system.
00:39:44.480 --> 00:39:46.400
It allows access to higher thinking.
00:39:46.639 --> 00:39:51.920
It allows collaboration and communication in ways that fight and higher intensities don't.
00:39:52.159 --> 00:39:54.000
And it allows agility.
00:39:54.159 --> 00:39:55.760
In other words, we can pivot.
00:39:55.920 --> 00:39:57.119
We can change directions.
00:39:57.280 --> 00:39:59.760
We can all of a sudden reorient to a new strategy.
00:39:59.840 --> 00:40:02.079
We can see what's working and what's not working.
00:40:02.320 --> 00:40:13.519
So there's a lot of benefits, but they're really all rooted in that it is fundamentally a different state than the state of fight or the state of flight.
00:40:13.679 --> 00:40:14.639
It's a different state.
00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:21.679
It's like you're fully present in the moment and remembering why you're doing it in the first place.
00:40:21.920 --> 00:40:29.920
I did your course and I loved your course, and I loved how you had the visual aspects of the tennis players.
00:40:30.159 --> 00:40:40.559
And so you were showing visuals of the players in that shutdown state and you know, the highly stressed state, and then the play zone.
00:40:40.639 --> 00:40:44.880
And you could see the difference in how they were playing.
00:40:45.039 --> 00:40:48.719
It it just having those visual cues for me was really helpful.
00:40:49.920 --> 00:40:56.400
Yeah, it once you see that and you make that connection, you can see that in any arena, right?
00:40:56.559 --> 00:40:58.480
You can see that when you're walking through the market.
00:40:58.559 --> 00:41:06.159
You can get a glimpse of is someone really present or are they on a mission where like are they just getting in and out?
00:41:06.320 --> 00:41:07.360
Are they a little nervous?
00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:08.320
Are they withdrawn?
00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:08.559
Right.
00:41:08.639 --> 00:41:12.559
We can we can start seeing that in in in sport.
00:41:12.719 --> 00:41:14.239
We can watch TV and we can see it.
00:41:14.320 --> 00:41:17.440
We can see it in life, we can notice it in ourselves, right?
00:41:17.599 --> 00:41:18.960
And it's really important.
00:41:19.280 --> 00:41:23.920
But you said something too that I think is a really, is a really key thing.
00:41:24.239 --> 00:41:27.440
You said that we can connect with our why.
00:41:27.599 --> 00:41:31.760
You can we can really when we're when we're in a state of play, we can.
00:41:31.920 --> 00:41:46.719
We can actually connect with why, why we're doing this, why this is important, why this is important to me, why this matters, how how this might connect me to something bigger than me and and the people I'm doing it with or the people I'm doing it for.
00:41:47.199 --> 00:41:52.400
And we can I I love that, and that's a really important piece to that, right?
00:41:52.480 --> 00:41:56.480
Like it's really hard to connect with our why.
00:41:56.719 --> 00:41:57.119
Yeah.
00:41:57.360 --> 00:41:59.280
When we're in a pattern of protection.
00:41:59.360 --> 00:41:59.920
It's really hard.
00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:05.119
Because then we we get caught up in the story and we're forgetting about why we're here.
00:42:06.559 --> 00:42:08.639
Yeah, and our physiology isn't giving us.
00:42:08.800 --> 00:42:09.679
It's not giving us.
00:42:09.840 --> 00:42:21.039
I look at the physiology, it's either giving us permission or an opportunity to be fully present and to connect to that why, or it's interrupting that.
00:42:21.199 --> 00:42:21.440
Yeah.
00:42:21.599 --> 00:42:21.760
Right?
00:42:21.840 --> 00:42:25.360
It's it's literally diverting resources to toward protecting us.
00:42:25.440 --> 00:42:32.800
And that protection might be attacking, that protection might be defending, or it might be hiding and fully going away.
00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:37.920
So, so we're trying from this perspective, and this is just one perspective.
00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:50.559
I don't want to claim that this has all of all of the answers, but for me, it's been really helpful to recognize that I can try to help my physiology, I can guide my physiology as best I can, right?
00:42:51.280 --> 00:42:57.920
To maybe bring myself into a state where I can show up how I really want to show up.
00:42:58.079 --> 00:43:04.719
I can tap into the why, why this is important to me, why, why our conversation today is really important to me.
00:43:04.880 --> 00:43:06.400
It might, it might help somebody.
00:43:06.559 --> 00:43:08.159
It might make an impact.
00:43:08.320 --> 00:43:11.599
Somebody might actually go, oh, that's what's happening.
00:43:11.760 --> 00:43:16.159
This isn't a reflection of me, of my character, of my values, or any of that.
00:43:16.239 --> 00:43:19.039
It's a reflection that I shifted into a pattern of protection.
00:43:19.280 --> 00:43:25.840
That can be really, really like that's goosebump material for me because that can change everything.
00:43:26.159 --> 00:43:32.239
Yeah, that made me just think of a few years ago, I've always had a fear of public speaking.
00:43:32.400 --> 00:43:34.400
So this is very relevant.
00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:40.880
And a friend of mine who was always pushing me outside my comfort zone.
00:43:41.119 --> 00:43:45.360
Her husband had called to say uh she wanted me to speak at her 40th.
00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:48.880
And I knew that she had about 250 guests.
00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:52.559
Some were flown in from around the world at the Sydney Opera House.
00:43:52.719 --> 00:43:54.079
I was required to do a speech.
00:43:54.159 --> 00:43:57.519
But my initial reaction was absolutely not.
00:43:57.679 --> 00:43:59.599
There's no way, not in a million years, ask.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:00.639
Somebody else.
00:44:00.719 --> 00:44:02.000
It's just not my thing.
00:44:02.239 --> 00:44:07.679
And then afterward, I mean, I would just I was probably having a panic attack, even at the thought of getting up there.
00:44:07.920 --> 00:44:13.119
And then I had to shift that and say, Oh my gosh, I can't be that person.
00:44:13.280 --> 00:44:16.639
I can't say no, pass the mic, no, I can't do it.
00:44:16.719 --> 00:44:22.480
And then I was flashing ahead to my children getting married or big moments in their lives.
00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:25.519
And then I was thinking, I can't let my friend down.
00:44:25.679 --> 00:44:26.800
This is terrible.
00:44:27.199 --> 00:44:31.840
So I had to push past my absolute pain and discomfort.
00:44:32.079 --> 00:44:36.239
And the way I went aro about it was just preparing myself.
00:44:36.480 --> 00:44:38.000
I wrote the speech.
00:44:38.159 --> 00:44:42.480
I practiced the speech over and over and over and over and over and over again.
00:44:42.719 --> 00:44:47.599
And didn't put the pressure on myself that I had to do it without the sheet in front of me.
00:44:47.760 --> 00:44:49.280
And I got up and I did it.
00:44:49.440 --> 00:44:52.880
And I can't tell you how much I grew from that experience.
00:44:54.400 --> 00:44:55.440
Oh, I believe it.
00:44:55.679 --> 00:44:56.880
I I I'm with you.
00:44:56.960 --> 00:45:00.880
I I was I always considered myself extremely shy.
00:45:01.519 --> 00:45:06.639
I graduated high school number one in my class and I wouldn't give the valedictorian speech.
00:45:07.440 --> 00:45:07.760
Right.
00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:10.320
I I I'm with you.
00:45:10.639 --> 00:45:17.920
And so was there I have a question in relation to what when when you were talking, when you were giving your speech.
00:45:18.159 --> 00:45:23.119
Do you recall anything in the moment that settled you?
00:45:23.280 --> 00:45:24.320
Do you recall anything?
00:45:24.559 --> 00:45:25.679
Did you notice somebody?
00:45:25.840 --> 00:45:31.119
Did you Yeah, I recalled everyone's smiling faces at me.
00:45:31.679 --> 00:45:35.840
And I knew that nobody was trying to tear me down.
00:45:36.079 --> 00:45:37.840
Everyone was rooting for me.
00:45:38.079 --> 00:45:44.559
And I think at the end of the day, they would all feel exactly the same way if they were up there as well.
00:45:45.199 --> 00:45:47.280
Probably happy it was me and not them.
00:45:48.079 --> 00:45:48.480
Yep.
00:45:48.719 --> 00:45:51.679
So you did so in that you did a couple of things.
00:45:51.840 --> 00:45:54.000
You did some top-down things, right?
00:45:54.079 --> 00:45:58.880
You you reoriented your thinking and your mindset and you reassured yourself.
00:45:59.119 --> 00:46:00.800
You said, Oh, they're all happy.
00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:02.159
They don't have to do this.
00:46:02.320 --> 00:46:03.840
And they're not judging me.
00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:06.079
They're they they want the best for me, right?
00:46:06.159 --> 00:46:12.000
So you're helping yourself with your mind, but you also did something really important is you notice their smiles.
00:46:12.239 --> 00:46:13.599
You notice their connection.
00:46:13.679 --> 00:46:16.800
And that that was really important, right?
00:46:16.960 --> 00:46:24.800
Because that their welcome in their eyes and their face and their posture is cueing your nervous system to settle just enough.
00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:25.280
Right.
00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:29.119
It's just, it's regulating your physiology just enough, maybe.
00:46:29.280 --> 00:46:29.519
Yeah.
00:46:29.679 --> 00:46:30.000
Okay.
00:46:30.159 --> 00:46:46.000
And and that combined with your reorienting yourself and reframing this experience was enough for you to be able to do it and then afterwards reflect and go, wow, I did something that was really scary and really challenging.
00:46:46.239 --> 00:46:49.119
And now that association isn't as powerful.
00:46:49.360 --> 00:46:50.320
It's awesome.
00:46:50.480 --> 00:46:50.719
Right.
00:46:50.960 --> 00:46:51.760
And it's interesting.
00:46:51.840 --> 00:46:54.079
I I wanted to get back up again when I got down.
00:46:54.159 --> 00:46:54.960
I was on such a high.
00:46:55.039 --> 00:46:58.320
It's like, oh, if I could just get up and do it again, it'll be so much better.
00:46:58.880 --> 00:46:59.199
Yeah.
00:46:59.679 --> 00:47:00.079
Sorry.
00:47:00.320 --> 00:47:00.559
Yeah.
00:47:01.119 --> 00:47:01.440
Yeah.
00:47:01.519 --> 00:47:10.559
And and they're there, that's telling us that you were getting into a state of play because of the feedback they were having and all of that.
00:47:10.719 --> 00:47:12.320
They you were actually enjoying it.
00:47:12.480 --> 00:47:18.639
You reconvinced your nervous system that actually this isn't dangerous.
00:47:19.199 --> 00:47:20.639
This isn't dangerous.
00:47:20.960 --> 00:47:21.280
Right.
00:47:21.519 --> 00:47:25.119
And and yet it's the one of the biggest fears for most of us.
00:47:25.519 --> 00:47:26.719
And again, it makes sense.
00:47:27.440 --> 00:47:35.679
Because we'll go back to go back to what you're saying about belonging, putting ourselves up there, and and that's the thing with athletes.
00:47:35.840 --> 00:47:37.360
That's the thing with anyone.
00:47:37.519 --> 00:47:46.719
But you walk out on the center court, you walk out onto that stage, you're a singer performing in front of thousands, tens of thousands of people.
00:47:47.039 --> 00:48:02.639
You are actually factually putting your nervous system, putting yourself exposed, saying, Here I am, and your biology wants them to welcome you, wants them to value you.
00:48:02.800 --> 00:48:03.760
So let's honor that.
00:48:03.920 --> 00:48:04.719
Let's acknowledge that.
00:48:04.800 --> 00:48:06.239
It makes complete sense.
00:48:06.559 --> 00:48:06.880
Right?
00:48:06.960 --> 00:48:07.840
It makes complete sense.
00:48:07.920 --> 00:48:08.639
So what does that mean?
00:48:08.719 --> 00:48:10.559
It means we're gonna get mobilized.
00:48:10.719 --> 00:48:11.039
Yeah.
00:48:11.199 --> 00:48:12.559
Or we're gonna get numb.
00:48:12.800 --> 00:48:15.679
Or we're gonna have an outer body.
00:48:15.920 --> 00:48:16.159
Right.
00:48:16.400 --> 00:48:16.639
Right.
00:48:16.719 --> 00:48:17.440
We're gonna have an out.
00:48:17.760 --> 00:48:19.119
So let's just acknowledge that.
00:48:19.199 --> 00:48:21.599
My biology wants to feel like it belongs.
00:48:21.760 --> 00:48:22.239
I get it.
00:48:22.400 --> 00:48:23.519
It makes sense.
00:48:23.679 --> 00:48:24.960
How can I help it?
00:48:25.440 --> 00:48:30.159
There's people that just naturally get up and just are not ruffled at all.
00:48:30.320 --> 00:48:31.679
Like a walk in the park.
00:48:31.840 --> 00:48:33.280
It's just a natural thing for them.
00:48:33.360 --> 00:48:37.519
And they've started that way since they were young and they carry it through their life.
00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:49.679
Do you think the people that have issues or are destabilized by getting up and doing public speaking or speaking in large groups comes from emotional trauma when we were younger?
00:48:49.920 --> 00:48:54.800
Comes from perhaps being ridiculed, being laughed at in class.
00:48:55.039 --> 00:48:55.920
I I don't know.
00:48:56.079 --> 00:49:03.199
You know, saying something that didn't land well, then you felt stupid, or is it something as simple as that?
00:49:03.760 --> 00:49:05.280
I think it could be part of it.
00:49:05.440 --> 00:49:09.199
I don't know if that would be every case, but I'd say that's part of it.
00:49:09.599 --> 00:49:12.320
There is a biological component like we just talked about.
00:49:12.559 --> 00:49:26.880
So it's perfectly natural to have some call it fear, call it anxiety, call it getting excited, nervous just by putting yourself out there.
00:49:27.119 --> 00:49:28.639
Because again, it's uncertain.
00:49:28.960 --> 00:49:35.679
Your biology doesn't know for sure you're going to be welcomed and included and a sense of belonging.
00:49:35.840 --> 00:49:42.159
So I think everyone from the very beginning of time will have some reaction.
00:49:43.360 --> 00:49:59.920
When that reaction is met with more diswelcome, more evaluation, or even our own, like I can think back and go, oh, I remember going up and I can think of a couple of reasons.
00:50:00.159 --> 00:50:01.920
But again, our brain makes up reasons.
00:50:02.000 --> 00:50:04.559
We try to make meaning for why I might feel that way.
00:50:04.639 --> 00:50:10.719
And I could say, Oh, well, when I when I was little, I used to sing in the chorus and I had a really high voice.
00:50:11.280 --> 00:50:12.719
I just had a naturally high voice.
00:50:12.800 --> 00:50:13.920
And then it started to change.
00:50:14.000 --> 00:50:15.039
And I can remember the time.
00:50:15.119 --> 00:50:17.360
I'm singing a solo and it went, like that.
00:50:17.519 --> 00:50:19.039
And I was like, oh, I'm done singing solo.
00:50:19.360 --> 00:50:22.239
And everybody was like, Whoa, and Miss Bielick was like, What happened?
00:50:22.400 --> 00:50:24.079
And so that was very embarrassing.
00:50:24.239 --> 00:50:24.800
I can remember that.
00:50:24.880 --> 00:50:26.719
And I've never sang in a choir since.
00:50:26.880 --> 00:50:28.320
That may have played a huge role.
00:50:28.480 --> 00:50:34.400
I can remember going up and asking Jenny Ball to dance in eighth grade and her saying, no, I don't think so.
00:50:34.719 --> 00:50:36.639
And in front of all of my friends, right?
00:50:36.800 --> 00:50:38.159
In front of all of my friends.
00:50:38.320 --> 00:50:50.320
So I can come up with many, many reasons for why I might have an exaggerated response to public speaking or to taking risks in public.
00:50:50.639 --> 00:50:51.760
So absolutely.
00:50:52.000 --> 00:50:53.280
I think that plays a role.
00:50:53.440 --> 00:50:56.000
And I think some of us are more sensitive than others.
00:50:56.159 --> 00:51:00.000
There's definitely nature involved, and there's nurture and experience.
00:51:00.719 --> 00:51:07.519
It becomes a vulnerability piece of you become protective of yourself.
00:51:09.679 --> 00:51:10.159
Mm-hmm.
00:51:10.320 --> 00:51:10.559
Yeah.
00:51:10.880 --> 00:51:11.199
Yeah.
00:51:11.440 --> 00:51:13.840
And that so that's a great word.
00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:30.800
So when what you learned in my language from that talk, from you speaking at your friends' reception, is you reassured yourself that actually that's still a little vulnerable, of course.
00:51:31.440 --> 00:51:37.679
But it's not so vulnerable that I'm fully exposed and that it's really, really dangerous.
00:51:37.840 --> 00:51:45.599
It's still vulnerable, but now I can still be accessible enough and little by little that may grow, right?
00:51:45.760 --> 00:51:53.599
Into what you were describing earlier, where you still feel nervous, but it's like, oh, I like I like this feeling actually.
00:51:53.679 --> 00:51:56.400
This means I'm this is this is exciting.
00:51:57.199 --> 00:52:03.599
It's more like I'm going to see how this plays out on the roller coaster versus uh-oh, what does this mean?
00:52:03.760 --> 00:52:04.000
Right.
00:52:04.159 --> 00:52:10.079
And so there's still some vulnerability, but the vulnerability becomes play, curiosity, right back where we started.
00:52:10.159 --> 00:52:13.440
It becomes curiosity and what's what's going to happen.
00:52:13.760 --> 00:52:14.000
Yeah.
00:52:14.719 --> 00:52:33.119
Be being able to reframe in that moment because you think about how many people hold back throughout their whole life in fear of speaking up or standing up on stage or or doing a speech at their son's 21st or whatever it may be.
00:52:33.280 --> 00:52:38.880
It's so destabilizing for them that they avoid it at all costs their whole lives.
00:52:39.440 --> 00:52:45.039
And then they never get that feeling of like I felt afterwards of, gosh, it wasn't that bad.
00:52:45.199 --> 00:52:47.199
I've just got to get past myself.
00:52:47.760 --> 00:52:48.400
Yes.
00:52:48.800 --> 00:52:50.719
Well, let me build on that.
00:52:50.880 --> 00:52:52.880
This might be helpful to your listeners.
00:52:53.039 --> 00:52:58.480
Is so we don't have to necessarily just throw ourselves into that.
00:52:58.800 --> 00:52:59.119
Okay.
00:52:59.440 --> 00:53:04.719
So what you did, what it sounds like you did, is you really prepared yourself.
00:53:04.880 --> 00:53:08.880
You said you prepared your speech, so you had that really, really dialed.
00:53:09.039 --> 00:53:12.000
You changed your framing of what that's meant.
00:53:12.159 --> 00:53:13.679
You did look for cues.
00:53:13.920 --> 00:53:15.840
So you prepared yourself.
00:53:16.079 --> 00:53:22.880
So you can prepare yourself in a completely other domain than that.
00:53:23.199 --> 00:53:26.079
So it wouldn't even have to be related to giving a speech.
00:53:26.239 --> 00:53:32.800
It could be I'm going to start challenging my physiology to be disrupted and then recover.
00:53:32.960 --> 00:53:36.639
And it could be, I'm going to go get into a cold shower.
00:53:37.679 --> 00:53:38.000
Yeah.
00:53:38.320 --> 00:53:42.079
Because again, that's a physiological challenge.
00:53:42.320 --> 00:53:49.360
And can I now can I slowly turn the water down the cold and take it and then come back and go back and forth?
00:53:49.519 --> 00:53:54.559
That is a challenge that is very similar to what you're experiencing on stage.
00:53:54.719 --> 00:54:00.400
So you can do breathing practices, you can do different things, you can do exercise intervals.
00:54:00.800 --> 00:54:19.440
So you can start developing this capacity in your nervous system, in your physiology for flexibility, for recovery and challenge outside of the context that you're really afraid of, trusting that that is actually building the capacity.
00:54:19.760 --> 00:54:33.760
You still have associations, you still have maybe prior experiences that make that context even more of a disruption, but you're beginning to build the foundation that you're capable of handling that disruption.
00:54:34.159 --> 00:54:34.400
Right.
00:54:34.559 --> 00:54:35.280
Does that make sense?
00:54:35.519 --> 00:54:36.000
Yeah, it does.
00:54:36.159 --> 00:54:39.920
So you can start building it in in other domains that aren't so scary.
00:54:40.400 --> 00:54:52.159
And even going back to public speaking, if you could expand by going to the bus stop instead of sitting on your phone, starting a conversation with a complete stranger.
00:54:52.719 --> 00:54:53.119
Beautiful.
00:54:59.519 --> 00:55:01.920
Out just outside of your comfort zone a little.
00:55:02.559 --> 00:55:03.039
Love it.
00:55:03.199 --> 00:55:05.760
Talking to people in the grocery line, right?
00:55:06.159 --> 00:55:06.480
Yes.
00:55:06.719 --> 00:55:08.320
Talking to the checkout person.
00:55:08.559 --> 00:55:08.960
Yeah.
00:55:09.280 --> 00:55:10.159
Things like that.
00:55:10.320 --> 00:55:10.880
Love that.
00:55:11.599 --> 00:55:16.400
Because then that gives you information that everything's okay.
00:55:16.559 --> 00:55:19.199
It's not but that wasn't so hard.
00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:20.320
Yeah.
00:55:20.480 --> 00:55:29.920
And and if what you're doing is you're really you're training your nervous system to have this flexibility, to be comfortable with discomfort, right?
00:55:30.079 --> 00:55:31.840
And and that is it.
00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:38.480
And little by little you can expand that out to your standing up on stage and singing a karaoke song.
00:55:39.519 --> 00:55:42.480
Well, I'll do that when you go back to the choir.
00:55:43.599 --> 00:55:44.719
All right, deal.
00:55:44.880 --> 00:55:45.760
It's a challenge.
00:55:46.480 --> 00:55:47.119
Oh, I know.
00:55:47.199 --> 00:55:47.679
It's funny.
00:55:47.920 --> 00:55:51.679
I don't think I've ever sung karaoke, but thank you for calling me out on that one.
00:55:51.840 --> 00:55:52.400
That's good.
00:55:53.360 --> 00:55:56.320
I'll be watching your socials very closely.
00:55:57.199 --> 00:56:00.719
I'm gonna sing country now because my daughters listen to country music.
00:56:00.800 --> 00:56:03.920
So I'm gonna when I do go back, I'm going to sing country.
00:56:04.239 --> 00:56:06.320
Yeah, I love country music.
00:56:06.480 --> 00:56:07.280
Just love it.
00:56:07.519 --> 00:56:11.519
Well, again, it is that it's that soothing type of music, right?
00:56:11.679 --> 00:56:18.159
It's sort of a little bit earthy and gritty and um the vagal nerve.
00:56:19.599 --> 00:56:20.480
Calming.
00:56:21.199 --> 00:56:22.480
Yeah, it's fun.
00:56:23.760 --> 00:56:29.199
So is modern life producing more dysregulated high performers?
00:56:29.360 --> 00:56:42.159
I know we spoke about this at the beginning, but do you think what's happening with devices and social media and just how much information we get on a daily basis, it's dysregulating our nervous system?
00:56:42.960 --> 00:56:44.559
It's adding to it, right?
00:56:44.719 --> 00:56:52.239
And it's it's taking us out of real genuine, intimate human connection.
00:56:52.480 --> 00:56:57.440
And we're we're getting connections through the screen, not even video.
00:56:57.760 --> 00:57:01.760
Most people are doing just, you know, or videos that they're posting and all of that.
00:57:01.840 --> 00:57:07.199
And so they're getting this dopamine hit, but that's not social engagement.
00:57:07.280 --> 00:57:08.960
It's a different whole different mechanism.
00:57:09.119 --> 00:57:20.559
And what we're really after, again, back to that biology, is to have real face-to-face human interaction with others who are safe, trusting, and playful.
00:57:20.800 --> 00:57:35.199
So again, it's not just anybody, because as more and more of the culture moves into collective patterns of protection, the harder it is to find safe connection, right?
00:57:35.440 --> 00:57:43.840
So to me, that's what's happening with the media, social media, technology is it's pulling us away from true connection with one another.
00:57:44.000 --> 00:57:50.400
It's exaggerating and exacerbating the danger and the distrust and the stories of threat and how different we all are.
00:57:50.480 --> 00:58:01.440
And instead of feeding into what was real, what how similar we actually all are, and we're being fed information that keeps us locked into our little belief patterns, right?
00:58:01.599 --> 00:58:04.480
And fueling more and more fear and danger and distrust.
00:58:04.559 --> 00:58:06.480
And so, yes, I think it's really hard.
00:58:06.559 --> 00:58:12.320
And professional performers are now being bet on all the time.
00:58:12.480 --> 00:58:15.199
So gambling is off the charts, right?
00:58:15.360 --> 00:58:25.679
And so and then when they lose or don't hit the score that people were betting on that was unbeknownst to them, that they're not playing any role and they get attacked like you wouldn't believe.
00:58:26.079 --> 00:58:32.880
And so they're constantly being evaluated, being harassed, then they have to go do press.
00:58:33.119 --> 00:58:38.960
Compared to how it was 15 years ago, there's just not time away.
00:58:39.119 --> 00:58:41.119
There's not time with true friends.
00:58:41.280 --> 00:58:49.679
Like there's an athlete who I really follow, and I have a book coming out in it'll come out in January, February.
00:58:49.920 --> 00:58:52.880
And it it's all about what we're talking about.
00:58:53.440 --> 00:58:58.079
But there's one athlete in particular who I follow throughout the book, and his name's Yannick Sinner.
00:58:58.159 --> 00:59:01.039
He's an Italian tennis player and he's number one in the world.
00:59:01.280 --> 00:59:03.679
And actually, he just lost in the French Open today.
00:59:03.760 --> 00:59:05.119
He was the favorite by far.
00:59:05.280 --> 00:59:06.320
But he he's human.
00:59:06.400 --> 00:59:06.880
He lost.
00:59:07.039 --> 00:59:09.360
He's, you know, so what will he do?
00:59:09.519 --> 00:59:10.960
What will he do when he loses?
00:59:11.199 --> 00:59:12.400
He will go right home.
00:59:12.639 --> 00:59:14.239
He will go home to northern Italy.
00:59:14.400 --> 00:59:22.079
He will be with his mom and dad and his friends, and he'll talk about how everyone there treats him like he was when he was a kid.
00:59:22.239 --> 00:59:23.360
He goes back home.
00:59:23.519 --> 00:59:27.920
He goes back to people, he plays games, he gets out of tennis, he does all of that.
00:59:28.000 --> 00:59:30.000
And that's really hard to do.
00:59:30.320 --> 00:59:33.039
But that's what, again, the biology is craving.
00:59:33.119 --> 00:59:35.440
He goes back to where he knows he belongs.
00:59:35.679 --> 00:59:38.079
He's not being judged on winning or losing.
00:59:38.159 --> 00:59:43.440
It's safe, it's familiar, it's predictable, it's reliable, it's all of those things.
00:59:43.599 --> 00:59:45.840
And it's a small town in northern Italy.
00:59:46.000 --> 00:59:50.239
It's everything that the biology was actually designed for.
00:59:50.400 --> 00:59:51.519
It's like here, here he is.
00:59:53.519 --> 00:59:54.159
He will recover.
00:59:54.320 --> 00:59:59.119
And that is so hard and so not what everyone is able to do.
00:59:59.440 --> 00:59:59.840
Yeah.
01:00:00.079 --> 01:00:01.679
Do you work with him, Michael?
01:00:02.079 --> 01:00:03.280
I don't work with him.
01:00:03.440 --> 01:00:06.480
I just admire him and I follow him and I I study him.
01:00:06.559 --> 01:00:07.760
I write a lot about him.
01:00:07.920 --> 01:00:15.199
He's he, for whatever reason, he embodies all of this naturally.
01:00:15.519 --> 01:00:15.760
Right.
01:00:16.000 --> 01:00:21.360
And he just I hope he comes across your work because I think it's it's really important.
01:00:21.760 --> 01:00:22.559
Yeah, well, thank you.
01:00:22.719 --> 01:00:24.960
I hope he does too, but he's already doing it.
01:00:25.199 --> 01:00:28.159
He is so much the model of this.
01:00:28.480 --> 01:00:28.719
Yeah.
01:00:28.960 --> 01:00:38.639
And you can see it because win or lose, he's the most thoughtful, respectful winner or loser.
01:00:38.800 --> 01:00:40.960
Like it's just, he's just truly amazing.
01:00:41.119 --> 01:00:50.000
And that again, you can only access that when you're in a state of enoughness, a state of okayness, a state of safety, a state of I belong, win or lose.
01:00:50.079 --> 01:00:51.039
I'm already okay.
01:00:51.199 --> 01:00:51.440
Yeah.
01:00:51.679 --> 01:00:53.039
And so he has all that, right?
01:00:53.119 --> 01:00:56.400
It's and he has that, obviously, with family as well.
01:00:56.480 --> 01:01:04.800
And I think when you have those strong family values and a tight unit, that is just natural.
01:01:04.960 --> 01:01:06.639
Not all people have that, I would imagine.
01:01:06.800 --> 01:01:12.480
Not all athletes would have that support, but having that is just fundamental to everything.
01:01:13.360 --> 01:01:13.760
Huge.
01:01:13.840 --> 01:01:24.480
And and one thing that's really interesting with him and his family is there are a lot of athletes who have who have family and who come to all of their tournaments.
01:01:24.559 --> 01:01:26.800
They come to all, especially as they get better and better.
01:01:26.960 --> 01:01:37.840
So I compare Yannick Center to the number two player, Carlos Alcaraz, okay, who also is awesome and is doing a lot of this in the way that I would say aligns with my methodology.
01:01:38.079 --> 01:01:40.880
His whole family comes to like every tournament.
01:01:41.199 --> 01:01:43.760
His brother is on his coaching team.
01:01:43.840 --> 01:01:44.800
So he's funding.
01:01:44.960 --> 01:01:47.119
So you'd say they're they're great.
01:01:47.199 --> 01:01:51.360
They're at every tournament, they're supporting him, and but there's another component.
01:01:51.599 --> 01:01:55.599
There's that extra layer of pressure I have to keep provide, right?
01:01:55.760 --> 01:01:59.679
Yannick Sinners, mom and dad never come.
01:02:00.000 --> 01:02:04.400
Like once, once or twice a year, they both still work.
01:02:04.639 --> 01:02:06.400
They both are in their small town.
01:02:06.639 --> 01:02:08.960
He talks to them all the time, but they don't come.
01:02:09.039 --> 01:02:10.880
And you go, oh, well, they're not supporting him.
01:02:11.039 --> 01:02:13.199
No, they're letting him be.
01:02:13.599 --> 01:02:13.920
Yeah.
01:02:14.079 --> 01:02:14.320
Right.
01:02:14.400 --> 01:02:16.159
And he knows he can go home.
01:02:16.480 --> 01:02:21.280
It's a different, it's a different relationship, and it's very, very healthy.
01:02:21.840 --> 01:02:25.519
Not as much pressure like you do really well.
01:02:26.000 --> 01:02:26.159
Right.
01:02:26.320 --> 01:02:27.920
Like you, we're all rooting for you.
01:02:28.000 --> 01:02:31.039
You've got to like smash it, get this one in the bag, right?
01:02:31.679 --> 01:02:32.719
We love you, winter leaves.
01:02:33.119 --> 01:02:35.280
The other ones are like, have a good time, darling.
01:02:38.159 --> 01:02:38.639
That's right.
01:02:38.880 --> 01:02:41.039
We're still like our mom and dad for a while.
01:02:41.360 --> 01:02:41.920
But you know what?
01:02:42.400 --> 01:02:42.880
Exactly.
01:02:43.039 --> 01:02:43.199
Right.
01:02:43.360 --> 01:02:45.360
So you can see the benefit to that, right?
01:02:45.599 --> 01:02:52.000
You can see the how that doesn't layer anyone else's expectation on top of your own.
01:02:52.559 --> 01:03:02.000
And if we relate that to parenting as well, when we're too invested in our kids' lives or putting too much pressure on them, you're coming again.
01:03:02.239 --> 01:03:06.719
You know, it it becomes just it it fractures relationships almost.
01:03:07.039 --> 01:03:07.360
Absolutely.
01:03:07.679 --> 01:03:09.679
Even though it's coming from a good place.
01:03:10.079 --> 01:03:12.880
But it's so important to have that separateness.
01:03:13.760 --> 01:03:14.400
You got it.
01:03:14.559 --> 01:03:14.800
Yeah.
01:03:15.760 --> 01:03:25.920
You're making me think back on I would always coach my daughter's teams, whatever they were doing, and it was this whole philosophy.
01:03:26.159 --> 01:03:31.599
And there was uh AYSO, it was our kind of our whole football.
01:03:31.760 --> 01:03:33.760
Here it's called soccer, but football, right?
01:03:33.920 --> 01:03:40.559
And so there was one Saturday season where no parents could make a sound.
01:03:40.719 --> 01:03:45.840
We gave all the parents lollipops so they had to suck on a lollipop instead of yelling.
01:03:46.079 --> 01:03:48.559
And the kids loved it.
01:03:48.800 --> 01:03:49.119
Yeah.
01:03:49.360 --> 01:03:51.280
The kids loved it.
01:03:51.679 --> 01:03:52.239
Yeah.
01:03:52.480 --> 01:03:54.400
And it's exactly what we're talking about.
01:03:54.559 --> 01:03:56.000
They're there, they're present.
01:03:56.159 --> 01:03:56.719
I see them.
01:03:56.880 --> 01:04:01.360
I know they love me, they're here, but they're not throwing their stuff on top of me.
01:04:01.760 --> 01:04:02.079
Yeah.
01:04:02.320 --> 01:04:03.840
I noticed that with my daughter.
01:04:03.920 --> 01:04:05.119
She's a dressage rider.
01:04:05.360 --> 01:04:08.000
She competes at a high level in equestrian riding.
01:04:08.400 --> 01:04:11.519
You can see the parents where there's pressure.
01:04:12.159 --> 01:04:19.920
You know, and we're all guilty of it to a certain extent, but I'm very aware because horses are so susceptible to human energy.
01:04:20.159 --> 01:04:23.920
So it's not just impacting my daughter, it's impacting the horse as well.
01:04:24.079 --> 01:04:29.119
So it's yeah, sometimes you've just got to And then it's impacting everybody and every horse.
01:04:29.519 --> 01:04:32.320
It's a very it's a right, it's a very complex thing.
01:04:32.559 --> 01:04:33.760
It's herd instinct.
01:04:34.000 --> 01:04:35.440
So it's interesting.
01:04:35.599 --> 01:04:40.480
Sometimes you do just have to check in with yourself and just yeah, let let them go.
01:04:41.199 --> 01:04:42.960
So, Michael, last question.
01:04:43.360 --> 01:04:48.000
What is one thing you wish everyone understood about nervous system?
01:04:53.039 --> 01:04:56.079
Just reiterating really where where we started.
01:04:56.639 --> 01:05:17.840
To me, it's that it really whatever's uh playing out beneath our awareness initially, what we call the nervous system, it's really shaping our whole experience of the world, our place in the world, our view of ourselves, our relationships, how we see other people.
01:05:18.559 --> 01:05:25.119
And that insight it just helps take the edge off.
01:05:25.920 --> 01:05:38.239
It can just take the edge off of our own self-criticism, our own shame and guilt and blame, but also our own evaluation of others, right?
01:05:38.400 --> 01:05:40.800
Like I was really judgmental.
01:05:41.199 --> 01:05:48.480
I I was absolutely grew up in a very conservative black and white home.
01:05:49.280 --> 01:05:53.280
And so for me, it's softened the edges a lot.
01:05:53.599 --> 01:05:55.760
Not all the way, but a lot.
01:05:55.920 --> 01:06:27.599
And I think that has been a huge gift for me that I think Can be helpful to a lot of us is just letting go of some of that criticism and blame and shame on ourselves and others, and recognizing just how much, either drastically or very subtly, our nervous system and those adjustments that are happening beneath our conscious awareness, beneath our deliberate decision making, are having an impact and an influence.
01:06:27.840 --> 01:06:44.400
And starting, just starting in small ways, like everything we've talked about today, to start just coming alongside that, that part of us in a way that might be helpful, or at least in a way that relates to it with more curiosity and compassion.
01:06:44.800 --> 01:06:52.800
That that's it, you know, and then all of the other stuff kind of sits for me anyway, sits on top of that or sits alongside of that.
01:06:53.360 --> 01:06:54.079
I love that.
01:06:54.239 --> 01:06:55.119
Well said.
01:06:55.679 --> 01:06:59.199
So before we wrap up, I'd love to offer a moment of reconnection.
01:06:59.360 --> 01:07:01.679
A few questions I ask every guest.
01:07:01.840 --> 01:07:05.840
So what helps you feel most regulated and grounded?
01:07:08.559 --> 01:07:11.360
Uh mostly just nature.
01:07:11.840 --> 01:07:14.800
Just like right now, I'm looking out at an oak tree.
01:07:14.960 --> 01:07:20.639
We live in a beautiful area and just being outside, just sitting under a tree or swinging in a hammock.
01:07:21.039 --> 01:07:21.679
Yeah.
01:07:22.400 --> 01:07:26.079
Where do you feel safest and most connected to yourself?
01:07:30.559 --> 01:07:34.719
In in a really playful relationship.
01:07:35.119 --> 01:07:44.000
So if if I'm having a real playful interaction with somebody I trust, I feel very much myself and very free.
01:07:44.320 --> 01:07:44.800
Yeah.
01:07:45.760 --> 01:07:48.639
And what does your body talk to about yourself?
01:07:50.559 --> 01:08:00.880
That the safer and more accessible I become, the less rigid my patterns are.
01:08:04.320 --> 01:08:04.639
Yeah.
01:08:04.880 --> 01:08:06.400
What a great way to end.
01:08:06.559 --> 01:08:10.639
Michael, this has been such a fascinating and important conversation.
01:08:10.800 --> 01:08:16.159
I think many people may now understand that their nervous system is not working against them.
01:08:16.319 --> 01:08:18.159
It's trying to protect them.
01:08:18.479 --> 01:08:28.800
Thank you for bringing such warmth and accessibility to this work and for helping people better understand the connection between the body, the brain, and feeling safe in the world.
01:08:29.039 --> 01:08:30.880
Where can people find you?
01:08:31.840 --> 01:08:33.119
Thank you for this.
01:08:33.279 --> 01:08:34.239
It was wonderful.
01:08:34.560 --> 01:08:36.800
You could find me at my website.
01:08:37.039 --> 01:08:41.119
I have two different websites, theplayzone.com or performancecode.
01:08:41.760 --> 01:08:44.479
The book will be called The Performance Code.
01:08:44.880 --> 01:08:46.239
And so that's it.
01:08:46.640 --> 01:08:47.359
How exciting.
01:08:47.520 --> 01:08:48.640
I can't wait for it to come out.
01:08:48.800 --> 01:08:50.479
The performance code, did you say?
01:08:50.560 --> 01:08:50.960
Or code?
01:08:51.359 --> 01:08:52.079
C O D E.
01:08:52.159 --> 01:08:52.239
Yeah.
01:08:52.319 --> 01:08:53.520
The Performance Code.
01:08:53.760 --> 01:08:55.279
C O D E exciting.
01:08:55.439 --> 01:08:55.920
First book.
01:08:56.159 --> 01:08:56.720
Yeah.
01:08:57.199 --> 01:09:05.199
Uh well, I've co-authored a couple of different books and written chapters, but this is my first uh book to myself and probably my last.
01:09:06.800 --> 01:09:07.680
One and done.
01:09:07.840 --> 01:09:08.239
We'll see.
01:09:08.479 --> 01:09:09.439
Oh, it's so great.
01:09:10.479 --> 01:09:11.520
Thank you so much.
01:09:11.840 --> 01:09:12.640
Well, you're welcome.
01:09:12.720 --> 01:09:13.039
Thank you.
01:09:13.119 --> 01:09:14.239
That was lovely.
01:09:18.720 --> 01:09:21.760
Thank you for joining me on Inside Out Connections.
01:09:21.840 --> 01:09:27.199
I hope today's conversation reminds you to tune in and find small ways to self reconnect.
01:09:27.439 --> 01:09:32.079
If this episode resonated, please share it with a friend or leave a quick review.
01:09:32.239 --> 01:09:35.840
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