Treating Customers as Guests

Dina Maas: Hey everyone. So Kirsten Elaine and TJ Doll here and we're back with another episode of Finding Your Cup. So TJ works at the Bismarck Mandan radio, no, no. Radio Biz Mark Mandan. Radio Biz Mark Mandan. 107.5 at the big rig. Yeah. Let's go. So TJ's just on because we're going to have just a little conversation about small business and kind of from Jen's perspective. So you talk with Deena first. Yes ma'am. And so they just got to talk a little bit about the small business world from her perspective. She's the owner of 12 stones, as you guys know, and then I'm the manager. so, yeah, so he's kind of going to be the one doing the interview today, honestly. So. Yeah. Well, I am just curious, speaking to someone of your generation, how is it that you, I guess, for lack of a better term, like how do you find what you want to shop for online? Is it something that pops up in your TikTok feed or, you know, whatever? Like, how do you look for the things you want or how do you even come across, get an idea of what it is you should be looking for or what you want to get? Right. Yeah. I think right now, actually, that I would say Gen Z there is starting this like shift to happen, I think, of where it used to be a lot of consumerism and just very like whatever is the most convenient. And I still think like at certain points, depending on what you're wanting to get, like sometimes I think when I'm grocery shopping, I'm like, okay, I'm hungry, I need dinner, like let's get the most convenient shop hungry. Right, yes, exactly. So sometimes it is kind of that thing of what is most convenient and that's the route I'm just gonna go today. But I found for me and even just some of my friends and stuff being a little more mindful of taking extra time to make sure that we do like shop more local or sustainably or just to take away from that consumeristic culture that I think has like grown a lot. I think especially just with all the online ordering you can do now, now there's DoorDash, now there's all these things that are just like everything is feeding into this really like let's have it be efficient, efficient, efficient, which especially in a coffee shop. that's a huge thing people are trying to do is be efficient and like, let's get your coffee, let's get you out the door so you can get onto the next thing where it's like, yes, we want it to be convenient and efficient, but I do think there's like such a beauty to like shopping sustainably and not feeding into that consumeristic. So I feel like for me, it's so dependent on what the thing is and that like the need for me that day or with that specific thing. But I definitely try if I can to plan further ahead so it can be less about the consumeristic like. spending more money so I can just get it quicker, know, stuff like that. yeah. That's one of the things I think about is like, just for example, when, I'm thinking about what to eat, I want to be able to actually, there's a difference between filling up and actually feeding yourself. you know, I prefer to go to like a local business as opposed to like a big chain, because that way the money stays, you in town. Right. Of course, the problem I run into more often than not is what's healthy anymore. Like what are you actually getting your money's worth as far as when you're eating it, you know? Yes. But I'm just one of the reasons I love places like 12 stones is it's the quality of the product and the personal service and being able to walk in and people know you. I that's big deal. Yeah. It's just that that connection makes you feel like, you know, you're part of something as opposed to just someone who's getting handed a bag out a window. Right. Yes. No, it's true. So what do you feel is the most motivational for you, like, that's going to send you into a certain business to buy something? Is it the quality? Is it the value? Is it the quickness, like the ease? Because like I'm willing to wait a little longer for my meal if I know it's going to be good. Yes. Right. Right. No, I would say probably for me, it genuinely is the community, like you were saying, of going in and knowing that I'm going be known there, that I'm going be recognized there, that I can actually get in a conversation. Me and Dina have talked about that. Stones is like going to be only as good to customers as our baristas, because like me and Dina can put in all this work behind the scenes. We can get all these quality products. if a customer comes in the door and a barista isn't welcoming and inviting. if they like, because we can have the best coffee in the world in our hopper, but if we don't teach them how to dial in the espresso machine right and actually make the coffee well, it literally doesn't matter. And so we've talked about that too, of really training our baristas for quality coffee and for the community aspect. And so I always think when I go to businesses, because the same thing for me where I would much rather like wait longer. and know that I'm going to be met with a friendly face, I can actually get into a conversation. I'll be like known and and even I'd spend a little more money to knowing it's local because I even think me and Dina are very intentional about making sure we shop locally. So we go to natural grocers for some of our ingredients and and we just try to do things that we know are like you were saying, like keeping the money in in Bismarck and investing in other people. And we want to get to the point, too, where we have like merch out and we work with people locally so we can like sell their stuff as well. And so yeah, I would definitely say that's a big thing. But you never want to sacrifice one of them either. Because sometimes there is that amazing family business feel where you're very welcomed, but then like the quality is just crap. And you're like, I want to go there. But it's almost like you don't because then it's like I am spending my money for something that's like, well, I do have. friends or I do have community out and have to go to this place, you know, so it's trying to find the balance of both of those things. I think in trying to walk that out well as a business, that's always, a tricky part with business is making sure you're not ever sacrificing either side of that. So, was telling Ms. Dina, one of the reasons I love businesses like hers and the reason I like to deal with small businesses, especially like, I'll use Ms. Dina as an example. She's got a passion for this. And there's no, there's no substitute for passion. Yeah. you can be and getting, making a million dollars a year. If you don't care about what you're doing, it's not going to be as good as someone who does, you know, and that's what I like to cultivate because her as someone who cares, hires people who care, and then you help go out and find more people who care and train them. And that's just, that's the best. That's your, your best shot at getting. a good service, great product, you know, the value. You care about doing it right. that's that's what I want to cultivate. Yes. Yeah. And I think too, with small businesses like so many of our employees, it does end up being a lot of word of mouth. Like we do have a whole process for people applying and we do give everyone an equal chance of just looking at their resume, seeing what would work best. But a lot of our baristas end up being they've come in or they've been a regular already. And so even being like, community too when you are a small business. I found that the community helps the business keep going with employees and even the support and all that stuff which is just always so cool. And especially when, because me and Dina have never hit in this, that we completely trust the Lord with this place too. And so even trusting that the Lord's gonna bring the right people at the right time too. And so it just ends up being so cool actually when me and Dina have meetings and we just talk about how the shop is doing and and just small businesses in general. know we've had so many conversations with small business owners where it's like, you can't do it alone. Just like I hear all the time too when you're, takes a village to raise kids, all this stuff. so I just think the same thing, a business is basically a baby. Really, there's so much work that goes into it, so much intentionality and you can't do it alone. It does take a village. And so to see something like 12 stones or other local businesses and people be so willing. to champion around that and help it grow and meet its needs is just so cool. Like people are so intentional and Bismarck is such a good community. It really is, especially for small businesses. Like if there's any place I'd want to start a business, it would be here. Because there is such a good community here and it's so cool. yeah. Just working on that metaphor you had of like raising a baby, it really is because you've got to feed it. You got to make sure it grows. You got to guide it in the right direction. Yes. But, and then expanding on your community. That's how I feel. It's like you get to know these people, they become your friends. You become a community before you know it. That community is like a family. I mean, that's coming from someone who's an only child. I mean, that means a lot to me. Yeah. Being able to walk in and see smiling faces and say, hey, you know, how you doing? How's things? How's your dog? Yes. Everything. No, seriously. Well, and as a coffee shop, too, it's it is. a cool dynamic and me and Deanna have talked about this too, where we want to provide coffee that is not just pumped with sugars and stuff. Everyone needs to take their own responsibility of knowing what's going to be the healthiest option for them and stuff, but providing enough options where people can come in every day and genuinely feel like they're being fueled well and not just like, we don't want to be a coffee shop that's like... Yeah, feed your caffeine addiction and stuff, you know what I mean? And stuff like that. But like also just being open to fuel people and have this be a place where people can come in. And the consistency with that of coffee is just one of those perfect things where everyone has coffee in the morning and might as well go do that at a coffee shop where you also get to see people. Because it is this thing you can make coffee at home. I mean, I have a coffee brewer at home and stuff. And there's the convenience of that and the sweetness of doing that in your home and even like when hosting people and stuff. But there is this dynamic with the coffee shop when you come in and you get to have someone else make your drink and serve you in that way. And the connection you get to have, we also train our baristas that when customers come in, we want to treat customers like a guest, not a customer actually, and have that like shifted mindset of shows. Good, good. When they come in being like, welcome in, make yourself at home. Like that's literally what this place is for. Like this place would not be a thing if you weren't here. and we want to host you as a guest. want to give you a good drink. We want to make sure that you're taken care of, that your needs are taken care of. It's not just a, I'm only going to greet you if I'm standing at the till, or I'm only going to, if you are going to pay for something too. Cause we say that too, like people can come in here and they can just sip water. Like this is a place for people to get together. it's not only like you're less expensive than other places, but the experience is so much better. You're paying less for a better experience and a better product. I mean, it's win, win, win. Right, yes, well, and to training our baristas to that, like part of the price that we put on our drinks is also, I, as the manager and like being in charge of training, I want people to associate, I'm not just paying for this item, but I'm paying for the experience to go to 12 Strong's as well. that I get to be seen, get to be welcomed, get to be in this cool coffee shop where you just look around and you see all the customers and creating that culture too. And so people don't just get to come and get their coffee and then leave and go to their busy lives and stuff, but it gets to be a place where you feel seen and loved and cared for and like your needs were taken care of. And then from that place, like get to leave with a smile on your face and actually feel like you were seen and like that you're thriving in a community, you know? And I think that's been so cool too, because we're so close to the college campus, Umary. There's so many college students that come in here and I tried out college and it didn't work out for me and so it's so funny because I'm actually a college dropout but coming in and hearing all these different college students like passions and how much they're getting to thrive there or even we've had certain baristas work here and it's not working out for them and so just different like experiences that we've had of even encouraging them and the the community that that's cultivated as well. The professors are amazing there and them coming in. And so it just feeling so much like that. And then we have this other customer base of just people in Bismarck too, just that love to support local businesses. Like there's people, there's customers I know here that drive all the way from up North just because they want to come to 12 stones and feed into this community, which is just also such a blessing. And so the community aspect is just so cool and just getting to. to see people doing that too, where it's not just all on our baristas. I try to remind our baristas of that, that you get to help create that culture. But when you're creating that culture and that's like, you guys have a thermostat, know, like you're setting it there and people, when they come in and they're like picking that up, they're going to, you know, they're going be the thermometer. They're going be like, okay, this is a welcoming environment. This is kind. And so you don't have to tell people to be kind. Like they just, well, if you set that, you know, which is so cool. That reminds me, I'd like to point out one of the, one of the things I love about 12 stones as opposed to other places. I'd blocked it out of my memory until just now. I used to work for a major coffee chain, major national one. And when I started, they put me at the drive-through. was February, it was 40 below. And with the corporate structure, you are a cognitive machine. And I kept asking like, where can I, learn to, is there an online manual that I can learn to make all these coffee drinks and all these, you know, all these things they have? Well, no, you're just going to have to learn on the job. Well, the problem is all the drink making stations are for one person and I'm in the window, so I can't, you know, and it seems like you're just a cog in a machine there and they're just going to work you until you break and then they're going to put someone else in there. And that's all it's about. It's just keeping the, keeping the mill turning, you know, whereas here, And with other small businesses, there's more of an engagement. You're more invested because that's, you don't have a limitless supply and a big national structure to support you. So you got to get it right the first time. And that's one of the great things about 12 stones is you guys care about training your people correctly because you care about the product, because you know that there's not a thousand other 12 stones, you know, to pick up the slack, should this one start to dip. got skin in the game here. No, it is true. Yeah. And I think it's, that's one of the reasons that I love, cause I've, I've also worked in, like high corporate setting, like coffee shops where it is really hard. and even the struggle to want a vision for that coffee shop, you can't because corporate and like, nationally this is their vision, so they're trying to do that, but that doesn't work in every community, you know? And so it becomes really hard. So me and Dina have the freedom of, because we're local, we can figure out what Bismarck needs, and we can try to meet those needs. And those are so specific, you know? Like there's needs and there's things in Bismarck that are happening nowhere else. Like I just think like it's, it is a... a unique situation to be so close to the You Marry campus where even that's a Catholic school. And so wanting to provide things that for them, but then also being like, we do have a lot of retired people. And so being like, how can we meet those needs? And there's a lot of teachers here that we want to support. We get a lot of like people reaching out for. donations for like teacher appreciation week and that's like a great community too. So being like, how can we do that? And so there's just a lot of specific needs here that we want to try to meet and we can change how we run things to meet those needs instead of being like what nationally is going to make us the most money and make things most efficient and you know, all that stuff. And that's a good point right there. That's a good thing about small business is what you just said. You take what you make and you put it back into the community. Whereas you shop at somewhere, a big chain. It's leaving. You're not going to see it again. It's gone. shopping small, shopping local is really an investment in yourself at the end of the day. It's an investment in your quality of life. So yeah, shop small, shop local. Yes. Well, and to the relationship that we get to have as Dina being a business owner and being the manager and the relationship we get to have with customers. And I've really learned a lot more here. is 12 stones is the first place I've ever been manager. I've been shift leads other places and helped out with like ordering or things like that. But this is the first place where Dina has been so great where she's just been like, this is your playground. Like go ahead and do things and have ideas and stuff and we'll just see. And I think with that too, it's taught me a lot about what the relationship between owner and customer should look like. because two, I was going to college, the reason I was going for business leadership and the things I was reading, it was a lot of the corporate and it was a lot of that stuff. And I was like, this just isn't what I wanna do. Like it makes sense for people that wanna go into this and like, God bless you, but I'm just like, I'm not passionate about it. That's not what I wanna do. I wanna actually get to know the people that come in and how I can meet their needs and every single person is gonna be different. And so doing that to how to find that balance between Dean and I have a vision. and we want this to happen, but how do you balance that as well between what your customer base needs as well? Because there's times we've talked about, we're a specialty coffee shop. We don't really want to have frappes, like blended drinks and stuff, but our customers love it, so we're gonna keep it, you know? And so things like that where we try to like have those conversations too of, okay, well, if it was our perfect world, here's what we would do. And so yes, but then also if it was the customer's perfect world, here's that. So how do we like marry those two? And that's how we walk this out too, which is a cool aspect of being a small business as well. think that's one of the primary rules of businesses. If you don't take care of your customer, someone else will. And while small business is not, it may not be a national thing. is a network and I encourage people to, you know, get to know the other businesses around town. Try to keep, I call it keeping the money in the family, know, in the community. don't go out, out of the state or out of the, unless you have to, you know, because there's plenty of people to support you here. and then it all, it all comes back. mean, it all, it all gets put back into the community and that's, that's what we're here for. Cause this is where we live. Yeah. No, so good. So what are some of the problems you've seen like, from your perspective, working at a small business, what are the biggest obstacles or barriers to success? is it like, the size of the customer pool? it getting the message out? What would that be? Cause you're, I gotta say your prices are some of the best in town, like most reasonable. It's a 12 stones coffee. It's a great, it really is. It's a great place. And I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna, you know, promote something that I don't believe in cause well, number one, it's dishonest. And number two, that impacts my credibility in the future. So if I send someone to a to a horrible business, they're going be like, well, I'm never taking that guy's advice again. Well, thank you. Yeah, I think it also depends on what your definition of success is. Me and Dina have- Staying busy. Yes, right. Yeah. I think me and Dina too have never sat down and said success means that we're making the most money or anything like that. Obviously there's a practical side. we need to make money to be a business. So there's definitely the side of that. And so like you said, we've had many conversations about making sure that our prices are good enough where we are making a profit so we can continue to order all the things we need to so we can pay our employees well. We want to take care, good care of our employees and all of these things, cover all the expenses, make sure that our lobby is comfortable, that we can get good merch, all of these things, you know, when it comes to money flow and budget and all that stuff. But making sure too, it's low enough that it makes sense. sometimes I go to get a coffee and it's just a latte and they're like $9 and I'm like, what? And I'm like, okay, like if that's like what the price is adding up to, but I just sometimes get confused because I'm like, what? Is this like magic milk? Like, I just don't know. And I'm like, OK, like I'll pay that. The last bean. Right, right. Like I'm like, OK. But we're trying to always keep our prices low enough where it makes sense and where we say the price and where our baristas don't feel bad saying the price. You know what I mean? Where it's like, yes, this is seven dollars because you also got alternative milk and there's extra flavor or whatever, you know, like this makes sense and stuff. But yeah. One of the things I love about independent business is you have the luxury of heart. A corporation, even the best one, They are specifically structured, contractually obligated, and legally bound to make as much profit at all times as possible, period, end of. Whereas you guys have the latitude to say, well, know, this might not be in our customer's best interest. And so without the customers, you got no business. you know, I mean, this in the best way is that, you know, you don't have anything to fall back on. So you have to take care of your customers. You don't have 1200 other chains. So if this one closes, well, we don't care, you know, but, and it shows that, that you actually care about your people and you care about doing things right. You care about the customer. That's why I keep coming back. That's why I recommend you to everybody. That's why I first came in. You know, I do my research and I've never, ever, ever been disappointed. Like ever, not once have I come in here and not had a great time. Sweet. And I every time I come in, I see people like with their noses in their textbooks and people smiling and having discussions. I mean, we need more of this in Yeah, yeah. No, it's true. And I mean, that's that goes into as well what you're talking about, some of the hardships and the trials with getting to that place of success. Because like I said, it's not really this place of like, we need to be the most profitable or anything like that for us. It again is that balance of our vision statement of the cultivating community with good coffee. And so that's what success looks like to us when, which is really hard to, you know, there's like conversations that we have to have about making measurable goals for that because that can be hard to measure sometimes. But ultimately that's success to us when we are seeing that community is being cultivated. So it's not just this thing where like last year, me and Dina were pushing for events and we were the ones running them. And it was just this thing that at that time our community didn't need those events. But now we're switching into this thing where we're realizing people are already doing their own events. They just need a place to host it. So we're like, let's make our coffee shop available. for people to have their own events. We don't need more events. People are already doing stuff. A lot of times it's a lack of space. And so that being something we're gonna introduce as well. And so sometimes where we've had this vision of what we're gonna try for, we just want people in the shop. That's what the coffee shop is for, is for people to gather and for community to happen. So I think it's a lot of trial and error of, again, just figuring out what our community actually needs. will based on what we're seeing or conversations we're having and stuff will make a decision and then we'll realize we're wrong. And we're like, okay, well, let's just talk about it and learn from there, you know, and keep going, which is it's all about the dialogue. You've got to keep the channels open and communicate. Yes, right. Because, you know, if you're not asking, how's anyone supposed to know? Yes. And I think that's probably one of the biggest things I've found as manager too, when it's a small business. So I'm the first. Manager, we had an assistant manager and so Dina was kind of halving the roles with her, but I'm the first manager who ever stepped in. So there was just no protocol for a lot of things because we were so small and Dina was doing a lot of it and it just wasn't. So a lot of it too has been building things from the ground up of what is actually the protocol for something as simple as ordering milk or doing the cash deposit or some of those things that corporations like working corporately or when I was working at that chain. they already have everything right now. They have all the things, if you wanna start this chain, here's everything you need to buy, here's how much it's gonna cost, they just have everything. And so that is another thing I think with a small business that does make it hard to succeed is you're like, okay, here's what success looks like for us, here's what the steps we're gonna take to do that. But sometimes we don't always know what it actually looks like to get from point A to point B. And so you just kinda have to like... Walk that and just again, like keep the dialogue. Me and Dina have to, we meet weekly, if not more, and talk about the things that we're doing and seeing and where baristas are at and making sure they're taking care of customers are at. How is the quality doing, making sure people are being trained? How's money flow? How's like, there's so many dynamics behind the scenes that I think people don't always realize that go into a small business and there's so much intentionality. And again, I really believe in the metaphor of a business being a baby. Like it is so much work, but it's so, like you love it so much. Like I love 12 stones so much and it's so fun to take care of and, don't get me wrong. mean, Deanna has been burnt out before I've been close and she's done such a good job to make sure that I'm good. but it is, it's definitely work, but it's so worth it to see how much of a blessing it gets to be, to people and to our community and stuff. so yeah, so think a lot of those things where a lot of things just aren't written out. And you just don't know what a lot of things are going to look like as a small business because you're trying to meet different people's needs and be attentive to what's going on. And you try to find that balance of, okay, we want to do that, but also we're a business. We have to just make a decision or here's what's going to be best for us or things like that. And yeah, just doing trial and error, being willing to say, yeah, we were wrong. We need to fix this. You know, that didn't work out. That's okay. You know? And so me and Dina also carry a lot the view of We've only failed when we stopped trying, when we've, and you just have to keep going as a small business too. So even if there's any small business owners too, like if you're in the thick of that, of just feeling like I keep trying all these things and nothing's working and stuff, like it genuinely is you just have to keep going and like finding community as well and other small business owners and encouraging each other because that whole, like being a business owner, being an entrepreneur. having your vision and knowing that it can serve your community. But all the practical things that come with that is it's so much. Like it really is so much. But I think what we've found specifically being a small business that's a coffee shop, I found that there's been so many needs that have just been met for us naturally because we're a coffee shop. There's so many people we get to know and so many connections that end up organically happening because it's like, we'll just be helping the customer because they came in for a coffee. And then we find out that Oh, their daughter's looking for a job and we need an employee, know, something like that. it sets us up well for making connections already, but sometimes it's not always easy to do that as a small business if you're a boutique or if you're something smaller. And so too, think just encouraging any listeners that are in Bismarck, just going to small businesses and to offering and being open, not just don't come into small businesses with a transactional mindset, come in of being like, I wanna have a conversation. I wanna get to know them and their heart behind the business. And I want to share my heart too, because you would never know like actually what connections you can make and how they can help serve you better and your vision too. And we're always looking forward to that too, when customers come in and getting to know them and what their heart is for. So we can better serve that if there's any way that we can practically help, like have a latte so that we can donate some of the proceeds for that thing or have someone on a podcast to talk about things like this. Like there's just so many different ways that you never know that small businesses can help meet needs in a way that corporate ones can't because there is that conversation and actually getting to know you. yeah. And we, I mean, I think one of the things is like, we all need to work together because I know my business, I know how to promote and, you know, sell things. But when I try to think about what you and Dina have to do every day, as far as like making sure we got these beans and we order milk and the deliveries and the page and the payroll and the, all this stuff and I tap out, I tap out. And that's why I'm so glad that there's. people to handle that end of it because it's just too much for any one person to know or do alone. And that's why it takes all of us. Yes. Well, and too, I'm like, I'm so thankful too, because even this job, a lot of it is mental where I feel like when I'm at work, there's like 17 tabs open in my brain. And even just people in my life, like knowing the nature of my job and Dina knows this as well. of how you get to the end of your day and even helping with that and having an understanding of like, this is a small business. So it's not just everything's laid out for you and it's not as easy as clocking in and clocking out. It's a small business. So it is like, I have to take care of this. And a lot of it is attached to you and how you're doing and your life and stuff. So work-life balance does get a little hard sometimes, but having just a community too and my church too of people that are just so like championing in for both of us of being like, go you for being like, being so involved in a small business and helping out with that too. And so even just carrying the mental load and stuff, like I've been so blessed with the people that have helped me walk that out as well, which is just so cool. And so making sure too, it's not just the community that you find in your small business, but having your own people that you can lean on as well with the hardness that comes with that too. So so good. Yeah. Yeah. Um, well, uh, is there anything else we'd like to discuss? don't think so. This is a good conversation. I'm having fun. I don't remember the last time I actually had a really good conversation. Um, there's just so much to talk about. No, it is true. Now I want to ask like how you handle all the deliveries and the ordering. Yeah. just baffles me. Yeah, it's a lot, but so are small business, shop small, shop local. Get to know your neighbors, make some new friends. Yes. We're all in this together. And the more we support small business and Bismarck Mandan, the better things are going to get. Yeah, absolutely. There'll be more rodeos, more derbies, more everything. Yes. More trees, more flowers, parks. the food truck thing. mean, it's, love this. Yes. No, it's true. And two, just want to thank all of you guys who are even listening. Me and Dina talk about this all the time. We just love Bismarck. We love all the people that live here and We hope you guys feel welcome to come into this shop and just get to know people, get to make it a space that you feel welcome in and make sure to tune into the radio. You should do one of your impressions. Can you do one? OJ 107.5 in the big rig, 105.9. Yes. So make sure you tune into the radio and thanks again for listening and we'll see you on our next episode. Bye.