WEBVTT
00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:04.000
Our thesis is that we want to invest in infrastructure of uh psychedelics.
00:00:04.080 --> 00:00:09.119
Uh we believe that like in two three years we have floodgate open with all the FDE approvals.
00:00:09.279 --> 00:00:13.519
It's the acceleration program we are planning to invest in up to 10 companies.
00:00:13.679 --> 00:00:19.280
This year we want to invest 150k in each of them.
00:00:19.600 --> 00:00:25.920
So we're trying to like get the best teams who is really interesting to build into the space.
00:00:26.239 --> 00:00:29.679
Welcome to the Evolving Minds podcast by Pink Elephant.
00:00:30.079 --> 00:00:39.119
Insightful conversations with the entrepreneurs, executives, and change makers shaping the future of psychedelic therapy and progressive mental health.
00:00:39.520 --> 00:00:42.479
Meet the Minds, changing the business of healing.
00:00:42.719 --> 00:00:49.920
On today's episode, we dive deeper into the world of psychedelic business and venture capital with Natalia Fedlova of Pink Elephant.
00:00:50.159 --> 00:00:58.719
Discover how Pink Elephant is pioneering investment in psychedelic infrastructure by launching an accelerator program to support early stage startups.
00:00:58.960 --> 00:01:05.120
We learn about the potential of these innovative therapies and how they may help build the future of psychedelic medicine.
00:01:05.359 --> 00:01:08.000
Okay, we're here with Natalia from Pink Elephant.
00:01:08.319 --> 00:01:09.120
Hello, Natalia.
00:01:09.200 --> 00:01:09.680
Good morning.
00:01:09.920 --> 00:01:11.280
Hey Jason, how are you?
00:01:11.680 --> 00:01:12.400
I'm doing well.
00:01:12.560 --> 00:01:13.120
I'm doing well.
00:01:13.280 --> 00:01:14.079
Good morning for you.
00:01:14.239 --> 00:01:15.040
Good night for me.
00:01:15.280 --> 00:01:16.640
Nice to speak with you.
00:01:17.200 --> 00:01:20.719
So why don't you introduce yourself to the listeners?
00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:22.239
Sure.
00:01:22.400 --> 00:01:26.400
I am an investment director in uh Pink Elephant Fund.
00:01:26.560 --> 00:01:32.239
I am responsible for running the fund, and soon we're gonna have the acceleration programs.
00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:37.680
Um I am I was working in uh venture capital for the last decade.
00:01:37.840 --> 00:01:45.439
Before that, I was working in investment banking for almost uh 10 years, did a career there, then moved to San Francisco.
00:01:45.599 --> 00:02:01.599
Was working 500 startups, was running the acceleration programs all around the world in Korea, India, uh Georgia, Russia, um, Peru, Miami, Arizona, San Francisco.
00:02:01.760 --> 00:02:03.200
Probably I forget something.
00:02:03.280 --> 00:02:08.800
So I have the experience with the acceleration programs for the seed pre-seed startups all around the world.
00:02:09.039 --> 00:02:14.240
And one year ago, I finally started working in uh psychedelics.
00:02:14.319 --> 00:02:28.319
So like my personal passion for psychedelic space and my professional passion for working with the early stage startups collide, and I'm super happy to be here and explain more on like what we're doing.
00:02:29.520 --> 00:02:37.919
Okay, so pink elephant is a good match for your uh for your experience and your and your and your skill set and your and your passion.
00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:39.199
So yeah, that's great.
00:02:39.439 --> 00:02:46.719
Maybe give a uh a quick summary of you know what is pink elephant, what are what are we focused on?
00:02:47.039 --> 00:02:50.560
Give a little uh pink elephant uh elevator pitch.
00:02:51.680 --> 00:02:51.919
Sure.
00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:54.159
So pink elephant, it's like it's two parts.
00:02:54.319 --> 00:03:11.360
One is fund who's investing in early stage startups, and another one is the builder who is building uh mostly around the uh Europe, uh, all the businesses that supports psychedelics in uh progressive mental health.
00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:18.639
Uh and we have like state of mind, uh our portfolio, one of the portfolio of the builder.
00:03:18.719 --> 00:03:21.759
But I'm most responsible for the fund, I'm running the fund.
00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:50.319
And uh our thesis is that we have um we want to invest in infrastructure of uh psychedelics, and we want to invest into the companies who are gonna be building into the space, and uh we believe that like in two, three years we have floodgate open with all the FDE approvals, and we don't have enough education, we don't have enough tools for people for delivery of like for deliver the medicine to the uh people.
00:03:50.560 --> 00:04:10.479
So this is like where we are uh trying to put our money in mines and resources uh to make sure like in three, four years, whatever uh time is needed for early stage startups to build businesses, they are ready for um new uh FD approved.
00:04:10.879 --> 00:04:12.800
Yeah, well, that that timing seems right.
00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:14.240
So it's just a quick summary.
00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:24.000
So Pink Elephant has um the VC kind of investment fund side, and then a company builder with which you you're launching an accelerator program soon.
00:04:24.639 --> 00:04:25.199
Uh yes.
00:04:25.360 --> 00:04:36.480
So it's like it's two parts that's supposed to like they we're gonna help each other because we have builder and we have like some infrastructure already, like with the marketing, they can help our uh portfolio companies in the fund.
00:04:36.800 --> 00:04:37.199
Yeah, yeah.
00:04:37.279 --> 00:04:43.839
So it seems Pink Elephant's building a pretty nice uh ecosystem that could interconnect and help each other all the way through.
00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:50.959
Uh, I guess full disclosure is that I work uh for States of Mind, uh, one of the uh portfolio companies of Pink Elephant.
00:04:51.279 --> 00:04:54.959
And in terms of the timing, that actually does seem to coincide.
00:04:55.040 --> 00:05:01.920
I mean, I've been in the psychedelic space for almost six years now, and it's you know, it goes in waves.
00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:05.120
We had a we had a big boom and then a little bit of uh consolidation.
00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:13.120
Companies dropped off, you know, waiting for FDA approval for things to actually go a bit more mainstream and for the industry to scale.
00:05:13.279 --> 00:05:15.759
But it does seem like the timing is right.
00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:26.480
The three to five years it would take for uh startups to get off the ground and running does seem to coincide with we are actually now at the final stages of FDA approval.
00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:29.439
We have several trials at in phase three.
00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:36.560
Uh so it does seem like the timing is right because we've been speaking about it in this industry for years.
00:05:36.720 --> 00:05:38.879
We need the infrastructure, we need to build the infrastructure.
00:05:38.959 --> 00:05:42.639
But a lot, it was a little bit too early four or five years ago to start building this out.
00:05:42.800 --> 00:05:44.160
There wasn't the business for it.
00:05:44.319 --> 00:05:49.839
Uh so it does, it does seem like the time now is the time to build the the infrastructure.
00:05:50.480 --> 00:05:55.759
Yeah, and we have like Combus is probably gonna be the big one this year, hopefully.
00:05:56.319 --> 00:06:04.959
And if we have like this uh big market signal, the we believe that investors also gonna be like jumping into the space.
00:06:05.199 --> 00:06:35.439
That's why it's like timing to start uh the acceleration program right now, and by the end of this year to have like some um kind of showcase of our cohort uh to like show the investors what can be built and have like uh get get more more traction and uh get more money into like uh ethically built businesses right now before we have um whatever, whatever might bad things happened into the space.
00:06:35.759 --> 00:06:36.480
Yeah, yeah.
00:06:36.560 --> 00:06:46.160
Once uh there will probably be another boom once the first uh FDA approval comes in, and uh it will probably be more measured.
00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:53.680
There was a crazy boom, you know, with 60 companies on the stock market, 95% of them came and went right away.
00:06:53.839 --> 00:06:57.360
Uh a lot of people lost money invested in these really early stage ones.
00:06:57.439 --> 00:07:06.000
So I it if I think the next wave is going to be more responsible and uh a bit more mature.
00:07:06.959 --> 00:07:10.000
Yeah, we hope so that we like learning on our mistakes.
00:07:10.160 --> 00:07:24.800
And I'm like, I'm coming from the finance, from the investment banking, and I always like keep talking to people who uh invest in the healthcare but never invest in like specifically in the psychedelics or maybe not specifically into some frontier uh things.
00:07:24.959 --> 00:07:31.839
So they are interested, but they are waiting for like some big um uh signals.
00:07:32.240 --> 00:07:35.759
So the Abbey buying Gilgamesh was one of them.
00:07:35.920 --> 00:07:40.720
If we have like Compass approval, it's gonna be the huge one and we have like more money.
00:07:40.959 --> 00:07:50.639
So now it's private capital, and like the next steps is gonna be the big names who might in yeah, might invest in something like that.
00:07:50.959 --> 00:07:51.600
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:07:51.680 --> 00:07:53.600
They're coming in, they're coming in slowly.
00:07:53.759 --> 00:08:00.800
Uh big institutional funds are slowly built, they've been buying up MindMed and Compass in a tie bit by bit in the background.
00:08:00.959 --> 00:08:02.000
So they're waiting.
00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:04.560
They're waiting to come in in a bigger way soon.
00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:18.480
Uh okay, so the uh now that we've explained uh what Pink Elephant is, maybe explain a little bit about the accelerator program, which is the upcoming news.
00:08:19.439 --> 00:08:19.839
Sure.
00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:23.040
So it's uh the acceleration program.
00:08:23.279 --> 00:08:27.920
We are planning to invest in up to 10 companies uh this year.
00:08:28.160 --> 00:08:35.200
We want to invest 150k in each of them uh at the beginning of the program.
00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:40.399
And we won't have like six or seven months of the actual acceleration, the programming.
00:08:40.559 --> 00:09:01.600
It's a little bit longer than uh it's in the usual like classical acceleration programs, but we want to take uh our time because like it's first time um it's building in the space, and space is very complex, so we want we don't want to rush it and want to like learn slowly how to do it.
00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:21.120
So we're planning to start sometime around May and run the program till December or January and have the uh demo day or showcase with all those companies in the cohort that's uh gonna be showcasing to investors, to potential customers, to the world what they uh been able to build.
00:09:21.279 --> 00:09:23.519
It's for seed and pre-seed startups.
00:09:23.679 --> 00:09:37.919
So it's on the stage when you are have first customers, or maybe you just have an idea, but also uh if you don't have customers yet, it's supposed to be like some kind of proof that you are the team uh for the task.
00:09:38.080 --> 00:09:54.480
So if you have experience, if you have like some um maybe uh promise of like early uh customers to or you've been talking to like 100 different people and they told that this is the thing that needs needs to be done.
00:09:54.720 --> 00:10:02.559
So we're trying to like get the best teams uh who is really interesting to build into uh and in the space.
00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:08.799
Okay, so the so the goal is uh investing in 10 companies uh in the in the next year.
00:10:09.440 --> 00:10:09.919
Yes.
00:10:11.039 --> 00:10:18.159
And not exclusively psychedelics, it could also be health tech or innovative innovative health tech therapies.
00:10:19.200 --> 00:10:24.559
Specifically for this acceleration program is supposed to be anything that helps with infrastructure.
00:10:24.720 --> 00:10:43.840
So if some companies is building infrastructure for something else, like some frontier mental health right now, and they are gonna be ready to pivot into the psychedelics as soon as legislation allows or like some geography opens, we're also open to uh invest in those companies too.
00:10:44.240 --> 00:10:45.120
Okay, very good.
00:10:45.279 --> 00:10:55.279
So you said uh you're Europe focused, but not only uh the focus is like psychedelics and uh infrastructure for psychedelics.
00:10:55.519 --> 00:11:01.360
If we have like something that might be pivoted to that, because it's like it's very complex.
00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:16.159
We have like different geographies, people who are building in the geographies that is like not open yet, but they have the skills, they have the um technology, they have everything, they just like waiting for like next steps, and it's moving pretty fast right now.
00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:22.720
Geography is not not completely location dependent, where you have some flexibility there.
00:11:23.679 --> 00:11:26.000
We are open to like globally.
00:11:26.159 --> 00:11:27.120
We decided not to.
00:11:27.600 --> 00:11:30.480
We thought that we're gonna be like open for like some geographies.
00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:36.480
Where we decided to open the application for everyone around because we have amazing things going on in Australia.
00:11:36.639 --> 00:11:42.240
We have like uh Europe, like and Czech Republic, we have UK, we have uh Canada and US, obviously.
00:11:42.399 --> 00:12:06.559
And we uh one of the ideas of the acceleration program is to all these people to connect not only with uh our Pinkelephone resources, but also to each other and share what their findings this is like uh being like working with acceleration programs for many years, I can see that this is probably even more important than the money that uh in in the programs.
00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:13.519
Yeah, so so you've you've seen a kind of synergy and a sharing of people in the program.
00:12:14.559 --> 00:12:24.240
Uh it's synergy, and people are becoming like founders, they're pivoting because they have like insights from the company who is working next to them.
00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:29.759
It's the long like lifetime friendships and the emotional support.
00:12:29.919 --> 00:12:32.000
It's like so many things at the same time.
00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:41.440
And they also have like uh accountability when you're like meeting every week and you like reporting what's going on, you have uh like so many things.
00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:56.159
So it's like it's good to have community around who is also like doing something in the very uh like now it's like less stigmatized, but still it's like difficult to explain sometimes, even like your relatives, what exactly you're doing.
00:12:56.240 --> 00:13:06.879
And when you have like community around you who also understands the how mission-driven and how you are passionate about it, this uh this is a huge thing, and this also like boost for the business.
00:13:07.279 --> 00:13:09.840
It does build a sense of community.
00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:11.519
Uh yeah.
00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:20.080
Uh so I you said a little bit about maybe a little bit more about the type of uh startups you're looking for.
00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:21.279
Of course.
00:13:21.440 --> 00:13:38.399
So what we like uh actually mean by infrastructure, it's might be uh integration and support uh for people who did the experiences, and after that they need uh more help that uh now we have on the market.
00:13:38.639 --> 00:14:07.759
It helped to um all the sizes for therapists, uh all the infrastructure, like coordination and infrastructure in terms of marketing, in terms of operations, maybe like some specific like finances, because we still have like problems with the marketing when we uh with the just word of psychedelics people being uh banned on the like meta platforms, and it's like difficult to market it.
00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:13.360
Um this is also problems that some of the companies trying to solve.
00:14:13.519 --> 00:14:20.559
We're looking for different types of like directory or platforms uh to connect people in uh one place.
00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:31.200
Uh, we're looking for all types of education programs because we know that uh it's gonna be a lot of therapies that we need to educate all the same time.
00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:40.240
We know that there is like people who um gonna be going into this like clinics, into this experiences don't uh and don't understand what it is.
00:14:40.399 --> 00:14:49.200
So it's like it's big, huge market, and we also like trying to find someone who's uh willing to build it uh at scale.
00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:52.799
Yeah, those are all those are all important points.
00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:59.279
Uh yeah, well once these therapies get approved, we're gonna see that there's gonna there's gonna be needs on on all those points.
00:14:59.440 --> 00:15:14.879
So yeah, uh yeah, I don't think we realize that these therapies have uh some needs as you prepare, as you come out of the therapy, um uh financing, payment, insurance, yeah, marketing, that's a very good point.
00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:22.240
Uh yeah, there's uh all kinds of little um little mini ecosystems that are gonna have to get filled in.
00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:23.600
So very interesting.
00:15:23.919 --> 00:15:28.639
So what so that that's what you're looking for going in.
00:15:29.039 --> 00:15:33.600
How do you see the companies at the end of the uh program?
00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:51.120
So we think success it would be because we giving them like 150 its survival fee for them, like for founders to be able to just drop everything else and concentrate on the businesses they're building.
00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:57.679
So we hope that by the end of the program they're gonna be build uh build enough traction to raise another round.
00:15:57.919 --> 00:15:59.519
This is one of the outcomes.
00:15:59.679 --> 00:16:04.559
Uh, another one is uh they be able to make some money for themselves.
00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:10.559
So if we have like one of those, this is the success of the program.
00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:24.720
And like we as a fund, all like also we like interesting for them to live and to move forward, and we're gonna be like doing the uh follow on rounds uh at the end of the program, but we cannot like promise that.
00:16:24.799 --> 00:16:26.960
It like it depends how it's gonna how it's gonna go.
00:16:27.039 --> 00:16:37.120
And of course, like we're gonna bring all the um investors that we know in the space, uh, the people who's currently investing, people who are curious about investing in the space.
00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:51.679
It's like one of the uh benefits of the acceleration programs, it's to have this demo day when you don't need to like chase investors all around the world um booking the calls with them, like trying to make them take this call and then pitch.
00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:55.840
So we have all this like infrastructure inbuilt into the program.
00:16:56.000 --> 00:17:00.240
So they're gonna be like preparing for the pitch, they're gonna be explaining how investors think about it.
00:17:00.399 --> 00:17:20.880
It's gonna be the room full of investors, and they have like their uh actually one uh big event when they explain what exactly are they doing, and uh under the uh specific attention of like our team, gonna be like delivered the pitch and hopefully get investment.
00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:24.720
Okay, that's uh that's a nice offering.
00:17:24.799 --> 00:17:28.319
You give them the whole uh the whole package, that's a complete program.
00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:30.400
Maybe quickly a little bit.
00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:43.839
I mean, I guess we assume uh if we work in this space, we know about the promise of psychedelics and maybe the the ethical and like mission statement behind it.
00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:50.720
But it's possible there's potential founders out there that aren't directly in the space yet.
00:17:51.039 --> 00:18:01.279
So why psychedelic therapies, why these innovative therapies, like you know, what's the the moral uh driver, the moral mission statement behind this?
00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:06.799
Maybe I'm not gonna be like answering directly a question, but like uh let me know.
00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:12.960
We have like two types of founders who is like want to work into the space.
00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:27.200
One of them is like clinicians who knew like exactly what psychedelics are, how they worked, and they understand the space, the complexity, the ethics, and like all around that, but they never actually done the business part before.
00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:29.359
So this is like one of our founders.
00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:38.960
Like, we can help in uh get mentors and explain them how to build it, how to scale it, how to do it like safely, how to do like all the finances stuff.
00:18:39.279 --> 00:18:52.160
In other part is people who actually then uh build the businesses, they get exits, they have that personal experience with psychedelics, and it helped them on the personal level.
00:18:52.319 --> 00:19:08.240
And now they're thinking like, okay, I want to like give back, I want to build something in like in the space, and they're trying to like get in, but because it's stigmatized, it's complex, it's uh very like legally uh challenging, uh some of them backed up.
00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:17.680
So my idea is to have like both of them in one cohort to like see each other and have the synergy between them.
00:19:17.920 --> 00:19:30.000
So this is probably uh I would not explain person who never tried psychedelics, who's never been curious to psychedelics and explain them and trying to sell them to go into the space.
00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:42.720
I will not because it's like it's too big of a risk, but people who know and understands how much profound it can be and how big change it's gonna bring.
00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:48.079
So this is like this is our audience of the founders who we uh really want to work with.
00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:50.319
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
00:19:50.480 --> 00:20:20.799
Yeah, and I think at the at the outer edge, there's people who maybe haven't experienced it themselves, um, but see the science, look at it objectively, realize that there's uh the potential is legitimate, and bring bring their other business experience into the space because um uh yeah, I I've I've interviewed a CEO, for example, Doug Drysdale of Syben, and he's from mainstream biotech.
00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:34.960
Doesn't look like someone that went to an ayahuasca ceremony, but he just saw the science and uh brought his his his straight mainstream biotech experience to this because he he but he believed in the product uh based on the data.
00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:38.559
So there's all yeah, there's all types of people that can come to this space.
00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:48.559
I would love to have like more like that, and I would love to have like more uh researchers so we can have actually like the hard conversation that this is actually works and this is the data.
00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:55.680
Any other points you'd like to uh get across to uh potential founders?
00:20:56.079 --> 00:20:57.599
Anything else you want to get out there?
00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:11.920
Yeah, there's like a few things because usually when you're thinking about the acceleration programs, you think that it's gonna be like very heavy programming, and you will be like sitting on site and like learning some stuff that you probably uh already know.
00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:18.640
We design this one on the completely different uh level.
00:21:19.039 --> 00:21:23.920
We want people because we uh the program all around the world, it's uh fully remote.
00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:31.759
We might have just one uh retreat for all of us, one on site uh at the end of the year to meet each other.
00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:35.440
Maybe we'll have like uh then uh meeting with investors.
00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:43.119
Uh, and it's gonna be tailored by specific needs because we're looking for very different uh type of founders.
00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:59.759
Uh, we have the big amount of people in the industry who's willing to help, who already worked in uh worked with the clinicians, who's worked with the big pharma, who's worked with the retreats people who work with the legal, and they are all like showing.
00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:04.160
Big interest into the like contributing to this acceleration programs.
00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:11.200
So we are trying to find the specific people by the specific problem that founders are solving right now.
00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:32.960
We will have very light programming, just explaining like what it is, uh, give people space uh to connect with each other, give people space to understand who our mentors are and what kind of benefits they can get from them, and just pick for themselves what kind of uh mentors they want to work with, what kind of problems that uh they want to solve.
00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:40.720
So it's gonna be uh lighter than the usual acceleration programs, and it's gonna be more tailored specifically by the businesses.
00:22:41.359 --> 00:22:42.480
Okay, all right.
00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:48.000
So giving giving them space uh but giving them support at the same time.
00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:49.519
Yes.
00:22:49.839 --> 00:22:51.279
This this is the thing.
00:22:51.519 --> 00:22:58.880
Maybe like one um thing that's gonna be mandatory for everyone is preparing for the pitch day for the demo day.
00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:02.319
This is uh everyone gonna go through that.
00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:19.279
There's like no uh amount of practice that you can have to be ready by yourself, and like running a lot of programs all around the world, you like always doing like two or three weeks of preparation before the demo day.
00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:26.000
If you're doing it like fifth or like tenth time, you still need two, three weeks to prepare for the for the pitch.
00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:29.920
Any other any other points to uh to get out there?
00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:31.119
I think that's it.
00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:42.640
I think it's uh I'm really looking forward to it to like make it first time into like uh psychedelic space, something that I did like many times in the early stage uh tech startups.
00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:51.920
And it's gonna be it's gonna be fun and challenging, and uh really looking forward to like all the applications and all the founders who want to be involved.
00:23:52.480 --> 00:24:07.519
Yeah, I'm I'm excited as well because uh having I was working for a business focused publication at Microdose, and I I saw that first wave, I saw the comp the growth, and then I saw them all go away.
00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:26.640
So I'm very curious to see how this new uh the next wave is structured and what comes out of it, and to see uh a more solid next cohort of companies uh that are you know solving the actual the gaps rather than the theoretical ones from five years ago.
00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:29.599
So uh all right, I look forward to it.
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:30.799
Thank you, Natalia.
00:24:31.039 --> 00:24:32.160
Thank you for having me.
00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:34.400
All right, excellent.
00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:04.000
Our thesis is that we want to invest in infrastructure of uh psychedelics.
00:00:04.080 --> 00:00:09.119
Uh we believe that like in two three years we have floodgate open with all the FDE approvals.
00:00:09.279 --> 00:00:13.519
It's the acceleration program we are planning to invest in up to 10 companies.
00:00:13.679 --> 00:00:19.280
This year we want to invest 150k in each of them.
00:00:19.600 --> 00:00:25.920
So we're trying to like get the best teams who is really interesting to build into the space.
00:00:26.239 --> 00:00:29.679
Welcome to the Evolving Minds podcast by Pink Elephant.
00:00:30.079 --> 00:00:39.119
Insightful conversations with the entrepreneurs, executives, and change makers shaping the future of psychedelic therapy and progressive mental health.
00:00:39.520 --> 00:00:42.479
Meet the Minds, changing the business of healing.
00:00:42.719 --> 00:00:49.920
On today's episode, we dive deeper into the world of psychedelic business and venture capital with Natalia Fedlova of Pink Elephant.
00:00:50.159 --> 00:00:58.719
Discover how Pink Elephant is pioneering investment in psychedelic infrastructure by launching an accelerator program to support early stage startups.
00:00:58.960 --> 00:01:05.120
We learn about the potential of these innovative therapies and how they may help build the future of psychedelic medicine.
00:01:05.359 --> 00:01:08.000
Okay, we're here with Natalia from Pink Elephant.
00:01:08.319 --> 00:01:09.120
Hello, Natalia.
00:01:09.200 --> 00:01:09.680
Good morning.
00:01:09.920 --> 00:01:11.280
Hey Jason, how are you?
00:01:11.680 --> 00:01:12.400
I'm doing well.
00:01:12.560 --> 00:01:13.120
I'm doing well.
00:01:13.280 --> 00:01:14.079
Good morning for you.
00:01:14.239 --> 00:01:15.040
Good night for me.
00:01:15.280 --> 00:01:16.640
Nice to speak with you.
00:01:17.200 --> 00:01:20.719
So why don't you introduce yourself to the listeners?
00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:22.239
Sure.
00:01:22.400 --> 00:01:26.400
I am an investment director in uh Pink Elephant Fund.
00:01:26.560 --> 00:01:32.239
I am responsible for running the fund, and soon we're gonna have the acceleration programs.
00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:37.680
Um I am I was working in uh venture capital for the last decade.
00:01:37.840 --> 00:01:45.439
Before that, I was working in investment banking for almost uh 10 years, did a career there, then moved to San Francisco.
00:01:45.599 --> 00:02:01.599
Was working 500 startups, was running the acceleration programs all around the world in Korea, India, uh Georgia, Russia, um, Peru, Miami, Arizona, San Francisco.
00:02:01.760 --> 00:02:03.200
Probably I forget something.
00:02:03.280 --> 00:02:08.800
So I have the experience with the acceleration programs for the seed pre-seed startups all around the world.
00:02:09.039 --> 00:02:14.240
And one year ago, I finally started working in uh psychedelics.
00:02:14.319 --> 00:02:28.319
So like my personal passion for psychedelic space and my professional passion for working with the early stage startups collide, and I'm super happy to be here and explain more on like what we're doing.
00:02:29.520 --> 00:02:37.919
Okay, so pink elephant is a good match for your uh for your experience and your and your and your skill set and your and your passion.
00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:39.199
So yeah, that's great.
00:02:39.439 --> 00:02:46.719
Maybe give a uh a quick summary of you know what is pink elephant, what are what are we focused on?
00:02:47.039 --> 00:02:50.560
Give a little uh pink elephant uh elevator pitch.
00:02:51.680 --> 00:02:51.919
Sure.
00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:54.159
So pink elephant, it's like it's two parts.
00:02:54.319 --> 00:03:11.360
One is fund who's investing in early stage startups, and another one is the builder who is building uh mostly around the uh Europe, uh, all the businesses that supports psychedelics in uh progressive mental health.
00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:18.639
Uh and we have like state of mind, uh our portfolio, one of the portfolio of the builder.
00:03:18.719 --> 00:03:21.759
But I'm most responsible for the fund, I'm running the fund.
00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:50.319
And uh our thesis is that we have um we want to invest in infrastructure of uh psychedelics, and we want to invest into the companies who are gonna be building into the space, and uh we believe that like in two, three years we have floodgate open with all the FDE approvals, and we don't have enough education, we don't have enough tools for people for delivery of like for deliver the medicine to the uh people.
00:03:50.560 --> 00:04:10.479
So this is like where we are uh trying to put our money in mines and resources uh to make sure like in three, four years, whatever uh time is needed for early stage startups to build businesses, they are ready for um new uh FD approved.
00:04:10.879 --> 00:04:12.800
Yeah, well, that that timing seems right.
00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:14.240
So it's just a quick summary.
00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:24.000
So Pink Elephant has um the VC kind of investment fund side, and then a company builder with which you you're launching an accelerator program soon.
00:04:24.639 --> 00:04:25.199
Uh yes.
00:04:25.360 --> 00:04:36.480
So it's like it's two parts that's supposed to like they we're gonna help each other because we have builder and we have like some infrastructure already, like with the marketing, they can help our uh portfolio companies in the fund.
00:04:36.800 --> 00:04:37.199
Yeah, yeah.
00:04:37.279 --> 00:04:43.839
So it seems Pink Elephant's building a pretty nice uh ecosystem that could interconnect and help each other all the way through.
00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:50.959
Uh, I guess full disclosure is that I work uh for States of Mind, uh, one of the uh portfolio companies of Pink Elephant.
00:04:51.279 --> 00:04:54.959
And in terms of the timing, that actually does seem to coincide.
00:04:55.040 --> 00:05:01.920
I mean, I've been in the psychedelic space for almost six years now, and it's you know, it goes in waves.
00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:05.120
We had a we had a big boom and then a little bit of uh consolidation.
00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:13.120
Companies dropped off, you know, waiting for FDA approval for things to actually go a bit more mainstream and for the industry to scale.
00:05:13.279 --> 00:05:15.759
But it does seem like the timing is right.
00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:26.480
The three to five years it would take for uh startups to get off the ground and running does seem to coincide with we are actually now at the final stages of FDA approval.
00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:29.439
We have several trials at in phase three.
00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:36.560
Uh so it does seem like the timing is right because we've been speaking about it in this industry for years.
00:05:36.720 --> 00:05:38.879
We need the infrastructure, we need to build the infrastructure.
00:05:38.959 --> 00:05:42.639
But a lot, it was a little bit too early four or five years ago to start building this out.
00:05:42.800 --> 00:05:44.160
There wasn't the business for it.
00:05:44.319 --> 00:05:49.839
Uh so it does, it does seem like the time now is the time to build the the infrastructure.
00:05:50.480 --> 00:05:55.759
Yeah, and we have like Combus is probably gonna be the big one this year, hopefully.
00:05:56.319 --> 00:06:04.959
And if we have like this uh big market signal, the we believe that investors also gonna be like jumping into the space.
00:06:05.199 --> 00:06:35.439
That's why it's like timing to start uh the acceleration program right now, and by the end of this year to have like some um kind of showcase of our cohort uh to like show the investors what can be built and have like uh get get more more traction and uh get more money into like uh ethically built businesses right now before we have um whatever, whatever might bad things happened into the space.
00:06:35.759 --> 00:06:36.480
Yeah, yeah.
00:06:36.560 --> 00:06:46.160
Once uh there will probably be another boom once the first uh FDA approval comes in, and uh it will probably be more measured.
00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:53.680
There was a crazy boom, you know, with 60 companies on the stock market, 95% of them came and went right away.
00:06:53.839 --> 00:06:57.360
Uh a lot of people lost money invested in these really early stage ones.
00:06:57.439 --> 00:07:06.000
So I it if I think the next wave is going to be more responsible and uh a bit more mature.
00:07:06.959 --> 00:07:10.000
Yeah, we hope so that we like learning on our mistakes.
00:07:10.160 --> 00:07:24.800
And I'm like, I'm coming from the finance, from the investment banking, and I always like keep talking to people who uh invest in the healthcare but never invest in like specifically in the psychedelics or maybe not specifically into some frontier uh things.
00:07:24.959 --> 00:07:31.839
So they are interested, but they are waiting for like some big um uh signals.
00:07:32.240 --> 00:07:35.759
So the Abbey buying Gilgamesh was one of them.
00:07:35.920 --> 00:07:40.720
If we have like Compass approval, it's gonna be the huge one and we have like more money.
00:07:40.959 --> 00:07:50.639
So now it's private capital, and like the next steps is gonna be the big names who might in yeah, might invest in something like that.
00:07:50.959 --> 00:07:51.600
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:07:51.680 --> 00:07:53.600
They're coming in, they're coming in slowly.
00:07:53.759 --> 00:08:00.800
Uh big institutional funds are slowly built, they've been buying up MindMed and Compass in a tie bit by bit in the background.
00:08:00.959 --> 00:08:02.000
So they're waiting.
00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:04.560
They're waiting to come in in a bigger way soon.
00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:18.480
Uh okay, so the uh now that we've explained uh what Pink Elephant is, maybe explain a little bit about the accelerator program, which is the upcoming news.
00:08:19.439 --> 00:08:19.839
Sure.
00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:23.040
So it's uh the acceleration program.
00:08:23.279 --> 00:08:27.920
We are planning to invest in up to 10 companies uh this year.
00:08:28.160 --> 00:08:35.200
We want to invest 150k in each of them uh at the beginning of the program.
00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:40.399
And we won't have like six or seven months of the actual acceleration, the programming.
00:08:40.559 --> 00:09:01.600
It's a little bit longer than uh it's in the usual like classical acceleration programs, but we want to take uh our time because like it's first time um it's building in the space, and space is very complex, so we want we don't want to rush it and want to like learn slowly how to do it.
00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:21.120
So we're planning to start sometime around May and run the program till December or January and have the uh demo day or showcase with all those companies in the cohort that's uh gonna be showcasing to investors, to potential customers, to the world what they uh been able to build.
00:09:21.279 --> 00:09:23.519
It's for seed and pre-seed startups.
00:09:23.679 --> 00:09:37.919
So it's on the stage when you are have first customers, or maybe you just have an idea, but also uh if you don't have customers yet, it's supposed to be like some kind of proof that you are the team uh for the task.
00:09:38.080 --> 00:09:54.480
So if you have experience, if you have like some um maybe uh promise of like early uh customers to or you've been talking to like 100 different people and they told that this is the thing that needs needs to be done.
00:09:54.720 --> 00:10:02.559
So we're trying to like get the best teams uh who is really interesting to build into uh and in the space.
00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:08.799
Okay, so the so the goal is uh investing in 10 companies uh in the in the next year.
00:10:09.440 --> 00:10:09.919
Yes.
00:10:11.039 --> 00:10:18.159
And not exclusively psychedelics, it could also be health tech or innovative innovative health tech therapies.
00:10:19.200 --> 00:10:24.559
Specifically for this acceleration program is supposed to be anything that helps with infrastructure.
00:10:24.720 --> 00:10:43.840
So if some companies is building infrastructure for something else, like some frontier mental health right now, and they are gonna be ready to pivot into the psychedelics as soon as legislation allows or like some geography opens, we're also open to uh invest in those companies too.
00:10:44.240 --> 00:10:45.120
Okay, very good.
00:10:45.279 --> 00:10:55.279
So you said uh you're Europe focused, but not only uh the focus is like psychedelics and uh infrastructure for psychedelics.
00:10:55.519 --> 00:11:01.360
If we have like something that might be pivoted to that, because it's like it's very complex.
00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:16.159
We have like different geographies, people who are building in the geographies that is like not open yet, but they have the skills, they have the um technology, they have everything, they just like waiting for like next steps, and it's moving pretty fast right now.
00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:22.720
Geography is not not completely location dependent, where you have some flexibility there.
00:11:23.679 --> 00:11:26.000
We are open to like globally.
00:11:26.159 --> 00:11:27.120
We decided not to.
00:11:27.600 --> 00:11:30.480
We thought that we're gonna be like open for like some geographies.
00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:36.480
Where we decided to open the application for everyone around because we have amazing things going on in Australia.
00:11:36.639 --> 00:11:42.240
We have like uh Europe, like and Czech Republic, we have UK, we have uh Canada and US, obviously.
00:11:42.399 --> 00:12:06.559
And we uh one of the ideas of the acceleration program is to all these people to connect not only with uh our Pinkelephone resources, but also to each other and share what their findings this is like uh being like working with acceleration programs for many years, I can see that this is probably even more important than the money that uh in in the programs.
00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:13.519
Yeah, so so you've you've seen a kind of synergy and a sharing of people in the program.
00:12:14.559 --> 00:12:24.240
Uh it's synergy, and people are becoming like founders, they're pivoting because they have like insights from the company who is working next to them.
00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:29.759
It's the long like lifetime friendships and the emotional support.
00:12:29.919 --> 00:12:32.000
It's like so many things at the same time.
00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:41.440
And they also have like uh accountability when you're like meeting every week and you like reporting what's going on, you have uh like so many things.
00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:56.159
So it's like it's good to have community around who is also like doing something in the very uh like now it's like less stigmatized, but still it's like difficult to explain sometimes, even like your relatives, what exactly you're doing.
00:12:56.240 --> 00:13:06.879
And when you have like community around you who also understands the how mission-driven and how you are passionate about it, this uh this is a huge thing, and this also like boost for the business.
00:13:07.279 --> 00:13:09.840
It does build a sense of community.
00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:11.519
Uh yeah.
00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:20.080
Uh so I you said a little bit about maybe a little bit more about the type of uh startups you're looking for.
00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:21.279
Of course.
00:13:21.440 --> 00:13:38.399
So what we like uh actually mean by infrastructure, it's might be uh integration and support uh for people who did the experiences, and after that they need uh more help that uh now we have on the market.
00:13:38.639 --> 00:14:07.759
It helped to um all the sizes for therapists, uh all the infrastructure, like coordination and infrastructure in terms of marketing, in terms of operations, maybe like some specific like finances, because we still have like problems with the marketing when we uh with the just word of psychedelics people being uh banned on the like meta platforms, and it's like difficult to market it.
00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:13.360
Um this is also problems that some of the companies trying to solve.
00:14:13.519 --> 00:14:20.559
We're looking for different types of like directory or platforms uh to connect people in uh one place.
00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:31.200
Uh, we're looking for all types of education programs because we know that uh it's gonna be a lot of therapies that we need to educate all the same time.
00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:40.240
We know that there is like people who um gonna be going into this like clinics, into this experiences don't uh and don't understand what it is.
00:14:40.399 --> 00:14:49.200
So it's like it's big, huge market, and we also like trying to find someone who's uh willing to build it uh at scale.
00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:52.799
Yeah, those are all those are all important points.
00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:59.279
Uh yeah, well once these therapies get approved, we're gonna see that there's gonna there's gonna be needs on on all those points.
00:14:59.440 --> 00:15:14.879
So yeah, uh yeah, I don't think we realize that these therapies have uh some needs as you prepare, as you come out of the therapy, um uh financing, payment, insurance, yeah, marketing, that's a very good point.
00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:22.240
Uh yeah, there's uh all kinds of little um little mini ecosystems that are gonna have to get filled in.
00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:23.600
So very interesting.
00:15:23.919 --> 00:15:28.639
So what so that that's what you're looking for going in.
00:15:29.039 --> 00:15:33.600
How do you see the companies at the end of the uh program?
00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:51.120
So we think success it would be because we giving them like 150 its survival fee for them, like for founders to be able to just drop everything else and concentrate on the businesses they're building.
00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:57.679
So we hope that by the end of the program they're gonna be build uh build enough traction to raise another round.
00:15:57.919 --> 00:15:59.519
This is one of the outcomes.
00:15:59.679 --> 00:16:04.559
Uh, another one is uh they be able to make some money for themselves.
00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:10.559
So if we have like one of those, this is the success of the program.
00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:24.720
And like we as a fund, all like also we like interesting for them to live and to move forward, and we're gonna be like doing the uh follow on rounds uh at the end of the program, but we cannot like promise that.
00:16:24.799 --> 00:16:26.960
It like it depends how it's gonna how it's gonna go.
00:16:27.039 --> 00:16:37.120
And of course, like we're gonna bring all the um investors that we know in the space, uh, the people who's currently investing, people who are curious about investing in the space.
00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:51.679
It's like one of the uh benefits of the acceleration programs, it's to have this demo day when you don't need to like chase investors all around the world um booking the calls with them, like trying to make them take this call and then pitch.
00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:55.840
So we have all this like infrastructure inbuilt into the program.
00:16:56.000 --> 00:17:00.240
So they're gonna be like preparing for the pitch, they're gonna be explaining how investors think about it.
00:17:00.399 --> 00:17:20.880
It's gonna be the room full of investors, and they have like their uh actually one uh big event when they explain what exactly are they doing, and uh under the uh specific attention of like our team, gonna be like delivered the pitch and hopefully get investment.
00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:24.720
Okay, that's uh that's a nice offering.
00:17:24.799 --> 00:17:28.319
You give them the whole uh the whole package, that's a complete program.
00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:30.400
Maybe quickly a little bit.
00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:43.839
I mean, I guess we assume uh if we work in this space, we know about the promise of psychedelics and maybe the the ethical and like mission statement behind it.
00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:50.720
But it's possible there's potential founders out there that aren't directly in the space yet.
00:17:51.039 --> 00:18:01.279
So why psychedelic therapies, why these innovative therapies, like you know, what's the the moral uh driver, the moral mission statement behind this?
00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:06.799
Maybe I'm not gonna be like answering directly a question, but like uh let me know.
00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:12.960
We have like two types of founders who is like want to work into the space.
00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:27.200
One of them is like clinicians who knew like exactly what psychedelics are, how they worked, and they understand the space, the complexity, the ethics, and like all around that, but they never actually done the business part before.
00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:29.359
So this is like one of our founders.
00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:38.960
Like, we can help in uh get mentors and explain them how to build it, how to scale it, how to do it like safely, how to do like all the finances stuff.
00:18:39.279 --> 00:18:52.160
In other part is people who actually then uh build the businesses, they get exits, they have that personal experience with psychedelics, and it helped them on the personal level.
00:18:52.319 --> 00:19:08.240
And now they're thinking like, okay, I want to like give back, I want to build something in like in the space, and they're trying to like get in, but because it's stigmatized, it's complex, it's uh very like legally uh challenging, uh some of them backed up.
00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:17.680
So my idea is to have like both of them in one cohort to like see each other and have the synergy between them.
00:19:17.920 --> 00:19:30.000
So this is probably uh I would not explain person who never tried psychedelics, who's never been curious to psychedelics and explain them and trying to sell them to go into the space.
00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:42.720
I will not because it's like it's too big of a risk, but people who know and understands how much profound it can be and how big change it's gonna bring.
00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:48.079
So this is like this is our audience of the founders who we uh really want to work with.
00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:50.319
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
00:19:50.480 --> 00:20:20.799
Yeah, and I think at the at the outer edge, there's people who maybe haven't experienced it themselves, um, but see the science, look at it objectively, realize that there's uh the potential is legitimate, and bring bring their other business experience into the space because um uh yeah, I I've I've interviewed a CEO, for example, Doug Drysdale of Syben, and he's from mainstream biotech.
00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:34.960
Doesn't look like someone that went to an ayahuasca ceremony, but he just saw the science and uh brought his his his straight mainstream biotech experience to this because he he but he believed in the product uh based on the data.
00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:38.559
So there's all yeah, there's all types of people that can come to this space.
00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:48.559
I would love to have like more like that, and I would love to have like more uh researchers so we can have actually like the hard conversation that this is actually works and this is the data.
00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:55.680
Any other points you'd like to uh get across to uh potential founders?
00:20:56.079 --> 00:20:57.599
Anything else you want to get out there?
00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:11.920
Yeah, there's like a few things because usually when you're thinking about the acceleration programs, you think that it's gonna be like very heavy programming, and you will be like sitting on site and like learning some stuff that you probably uh already know.
00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:18.640
We design this one on the completely different uh level.
00:21:19.039 --> 00:21:23.920
We want people because we uh the program all around the world, it's uh fully remote.
00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:31.759
We might have just one uh retreat for all of us, one on site uh at the end of the year to meet each other.
00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:35.440
Maybe we'll have like uh then uh meeting with investors.
00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:43.119
Uh, and it's gonna be tailored by specific needs because we're looking for very different uh type of founders.
00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:59.759
Uh, we have the big amount of people in the industry who's willing to help, who already worked in uh worked with the clinicians, who's worked with the big pharma, who's worked with the retreats people who work with the legal, and they are all like showing.
00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:04.160
Big interest into the like contributing to this acceleration programs.
00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:11.200
So we are trying to find the specific people by the specific problem that founders are solving right now.
00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:32.960
We will have very light programming, just explaining like what it is, uh, give people space uh to connect with each other, give people space to understand who our mentors are and what kind of benefits they can get from them, and just pick for themselves what kind of uh mentors they want to work with, what kind of problems that uh they want to solve.
00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:40.720
So it's gonna be uh lighter than the usual acceleration programs, and it's gonna be more tailored specifically by the businesses.
00:22:41.359 --> 00:22:42.480
Okay, all right.
00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:48.000
So giving giving them space uh but giving them support at the same time.
00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:49.519
Yes.
00:22:49.839 --> 00:22:51.279
This this is the thing.
00:22:51.519 --> 00:22:58.880
Maybe like one um thing that's gonna be mandatory for everyone is preparing for the pitch day for the demo day.
00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:02.319
This is uh everyone gonna go through that.
00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:19.279
There's like no uh amount of practice that you can have to be ready by yourself, and like running a lot of programs all around the world, you like always doing like two or three weeks of preparation before the demo day.
00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:26.000
If you're doing it like fifth or like tenth time, you still need two, three weeks to prepare for the for the pitch.
00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:29.920
Any other any other points to uh to get out there?
00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:31.119
I think that's it.
00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:42.640
I think it's uh I'm really looking forward to it to like make it first time into like uh psychedelic space, something that I did like many times in the early stage uh tech startups.
00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:51.920
And it's gonna be it's gonna be fun and challenging, and uh really looking forward to like all the applications and all the founders who want to be involved.
00:23:52.480 --> 00:24:07.519
Yeah, I'm I'm excited as well because uh having I was working for a business focused publication at Microdose, and I I saw that first wave, I saw the comp the growth, and then I saw them all go away.
00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:26.640
So I'm very curious to see how this new uh the next wave is structured and what comes out of it, and to see uh a more solid next cohort of companies uh that are you know solving the actual the gaps rather than the theoretical ones from five years ago.
00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:29.599
So uh all right, I look forward to it.
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:30.799
Thank you, Natalia.
00:24:31.039 --> 00:24:32.160
Thank you for having me.
00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:34.400
All right, excellent.
