Dan Millman - Peaceful Heart, Warrior Spirit

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The following podcast is part of the Mind Bodyspirit FM
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podcast network. Welcome to Dropping In from Omega Institute, a
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podcast that explores the many ways to awaken the best
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in the human spirit. I'm Callie Albert dropping in today,
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Dan Millman. Dan is a former world champion athlete, university coach,
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martial arts instructor, and self described down to earth spiritual teacher.
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After a twenty year quest, Dan's teachings took form.
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As The Peaceful Warrior's Way.
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He has written eighteen books, most notably his nineteen eighty
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spiritual classic Way of the Peaceful Warrior, which inspired a
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feature film starring Nick Nalty. Dan's latest book, Peaceful Heart
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Warrior Spirit, is also his first memoir, in which he
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shares the true story of his journey for meaning in
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the modern world. Dan, thank you so much for dropping
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in today. It's such a pleasure to meet you.
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I do love that term dropping in, Kelly, and it's
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nice to drop in here with you.
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You've spent the better part of the last four to
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five decades on your personal journey. Did you set out
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intentionally to have a spiritual quest?
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Oh? I can answer that so many different ways. I
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believe we're all on a spiritual quest, whether someone would
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use that phrase or not, consciously or unconsciously, we're all
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seeking fulfillment, happiness, sense of purpose, direction, connection, and so
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my quest opened up gradually. I was, you know, who
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knew that liking to jump up and down in a
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trampoline would end up leading to all that followed. But
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I believe my athletic training in gymnastics and that performance
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element was not just a preparation for spiritual practice, but
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was my first spiritual practice. It taught me about the
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necessity to be present in this moment. It taught me
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about process and what was necessary in terms of growing.
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So it became a master metaphor, so to speak. And
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that was the beginning. But again, it was about gymnastics, sport,
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and I love self improvement. I took speed reading and
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speed mathematics and memory courses and sleight of hand in
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martial arts and acrobatics. But I think the shift happened
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when I realized, no matter how much I improved myself,
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only one person benefited. But if I could somehow help
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improve the lives of more people, that made my life
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more meaningful and that was exciting. Though I had no
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idea how I might do that. At the time, I
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didn't really have an idea about writing a book, or
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books or speaking. But I think that was the beginning
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of a calling as a teacher, because from that point on,
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everything I learned, and I continued to seek and explore
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everything I learned was something I could share in my
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own words, in my own way with other people, though
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that way hadn't developed yet.
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Did you know that you had a writer in you
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at that time when you were so focused on your
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gymnastic career, tramplin career, acrobatic career, martial arts career. Did
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you know that you had an inn writer?
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Not really, I think in around the tenth grade in school,
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we were to write a short story every week, and
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mine read a lot like Twilight Zone fan fiction. But
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it was the first time I discovered that pension for
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liking to create stories. But there was a latency period
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of ten years after that where I never even occurred.
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To me, even a ten page paper most people can
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relate was intimidating. So no, it really hadn't come to
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me yet. It took a number of experiences, and while
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I trained with four as I described in my new memoir.
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I worked over twenty year period intensively with four different mentors,
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radically different characters, master teachers who had different approaches to
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what we call spiritual practice in life. And it was
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only after working with the first two that I felt
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ready to compose some kind of book. And when I
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was a professor at Oberlin College in Ohio, I was
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teaching a course in martial arts, specifically Aikido and tai chi.
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It was an introductory course and I naturally was going
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to call it the Way of the Warrior, but it
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didn't quite fit because these are more internal arts, more receptive.
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So a light bulb went on and I said, why
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don't I call it the Way of the peaceful Warrior?
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And that was the first time that term organically came
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into my life. And it was years later when I
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wrote the book, I said, what don't I call it
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that way of the peaceful Warrior? And that's how it
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took Shait.
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When you first came up with that terminology, peaceful warrior,
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what did it mean to you? Because there's such a duality,
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at least from the outside looking in, until you can
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maybe become more familiar with the integration of those two things.
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True that they're not so mutually exclusive.
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They seem like an oxymoron, right, how came to be
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peaceful and the war?
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Yeah, so what did that mean to you then as
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opposed to what means to you now?
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Well I was influenced also. My friend Ed Ed Spielman
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wrote a TV series called Kung Fu with the archetypal
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Kwi Chain Kane played by David Krodine. And he was
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a peaceful shalley monk, a healer and believed in non violence.
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And yet I guess his contract is TV contract was
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such that he had to show his warrior credentials every
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week reluctantly, and so he was the archetype of the
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peaceful warrior. But I also drew somehow, maybe not consciously,
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on people like Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King Junior, people
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who had a peaceful heart but also at times had
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to show a warrior's spirit to really stand up and
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tackle the challenges of the world. And since then I've
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come to view everyone as a peaceful warrior in training,
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because we're all seeking that sense of serenity equanimity among
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the chaos of the daily news. But also we recognize
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there are times we need to bring that warrior spirit
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into our lives in everyday life. So that's how it
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developed over time. But when I wrote the book, I
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actually didn't have all those insights. It just seemed like
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a good approach and a good title, intriguing, and it
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only evolved over time.
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It's interesting how on some level, as you're talking, it
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sounds like some part of you knew before you knew. Yes,
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it was almost like a foreshadowing of what was to come,
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and then you stepped into the rest of it by
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writing the book.
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That is spot on.
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It's very cool.
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Yeah, I'd like to go back to what you were
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referencing earlier about your preparation and the focus of your
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early career as an athlete. You've talked about how that
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self focus might have been a concern for you in
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terms of precluding you from being more of an activist
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and outside your door as you were at University of California,
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Berkeley in those days. Telegraph Avenue is where the nineteen
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sixties counterculture was born.
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Yes, did you grapple with that?
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Well? I did, And I'd like to tell a story
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about the old literary mentor Socrates and I. We were
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walking down the street in Berkeley Telegraph Avenue, and I
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saw a poster about starving children, oppressed people's and of
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course the Vietnam War, which was still going on. And
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I said, Socrates, you know I'm doing all this work
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on myself, self analysis, self observation, meditation, inner work, kind
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of navel gazing. And I said, I feel selfish or
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guilty or something because there's so many people in need
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out there. Shouldn't I be more active socially and joined
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my friends protesting and so on. And he stopped and
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turned to me and said something a complete non secretary.
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He said, Dan, take a swing at me. And I went,
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what did you hear what I was just saying? He said,
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come on, I'll give you five dollars if you can
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slap me on the cheeks. So I started bobbing and weaving,
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and then I took a swing at him and found
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myself on the ground in a rather painful wristlock. And
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as he let me up to my feet, he said,
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you notice a little leverage can be very effective and
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I said, yeah, sock, I noticed it. He said, well,
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do what your heart tells you. If you want to
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help people, do what you can but don't neglect the
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work on yourself, so you can develop the clarity to
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know how to exert the right leverage at the right place,
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at the right time. And that's what I've been striving
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to do ever since. So what that story conveys for
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me is it's not either or it's both, and we
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need to do the inner work to prepare ourselves to
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be more effected in the world. And that's, again, I think,
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a wise teaching story because of that.
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It's something we talk about here at Omega a lot,
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which is where personal growth intersects with social change. I
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think what I'm hearing you say is that personal growth
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in and of itself is enough.
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Is that fair to say?
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Do you feel that way or do you feel like
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both need to ultimately coexist with each other.
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Well, there's a story about a young girl who was
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excited to have her father come home from work and
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she said, Daddy, can we play a game together? And
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he said, I'm really tired, honey, but let me rest
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for a few minutes. She said, oh, please, let's play.
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And he said, I'll tell you what, and he took
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a page out of a magazine and tore it out.
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The page had a picture of the Earth on it,
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and he ripped it up into about twenty pieces, and
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he said, here's some transparent tape. When you can put
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this jigsaw puzzle back together again, then I'll be ready
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to play with you, thinking it would give him a
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few minutes, twenty minutes or so, But she came back
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less than five minutes later with the picture all put
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back together, and he said, how did you do that?
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She said, it was easy, daddy. I noticed there was
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a person on the other side of the page, and
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when I put the person together, I put the world together.
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And that story is kind of a metaphor for me.
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That's why I remembered it over the years. Because if
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Earth Gaia, let's say, is a living creature floating in spa,
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this blue, green living being, each of us are cells
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on the body. So the better each cell is, the
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better it is for the whole body. And it could
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be argued that we have more control over and more
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responsibility therefore for doing what we can to become that
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best sell, that best self. So I think personal growth
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does fulfill the sense of we can be kinder then
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to people around us in our immediate environment. You know,
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the saying think globally, act locally. So I think just
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being kind to people around us being a good role
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model an example, Albert Schweitzer said in Influencing other people,
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example is not the main thing, it's the only thing.
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So by doing our own work on ourselves, it doesn't
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absolve us our actions in the world. But many people
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are motivated by guilt and that I should be doing something.
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I should be doing something, but what and how effectively
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are they going to be doing it? But if they
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come from a calm place, a lot happens. With minimum
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activity and minimum thoughts, their actions flow into the world more.
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I think that a lot of people now because the
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world is in such a challenged place that's so pronounced
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these last few years, and there's so many ills to
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contend with that it can be very overwhelming for people
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to know which way to go. Do I need to
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show up more for my neighbors and to make my
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community better, or do I need to sit in my
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quiet space and meditate a little bit more so I
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can get myself more fortified. And I think people grapple with.
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That a lot. Many people in relationships, or if they've
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had a relationship breakup and I've experienced that in my life.
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As I write about in the latest book, they need
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to get themselves together, because the better they are, the
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different people they attract into their life. Wherever you go,
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there you are, so they bring more themselves into that
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relationship and also our relationship with the world. I have
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a lot to say about the daily news, because there's
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always going to be daily news. One of the classic
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beginning lines of any book in literature is Dickens's Tale
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of Two Cities. It was the best of times, it
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was the worst of times. And he goes on with
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a number of contradictory pairs of phrases, and both of
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those we could argue were true today, not just eighteen
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fifty seven. I think when the book was first published.
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Today you and I could give evidence why it's the
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best of times. We could also give evidence why it's
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the worst of times. This sense of paradox have only
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come to appreciate more deeply recently, and it's been reflected
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in one or two of my books, The paradox peaceful Warrior,
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having our head in the clouds but our feet on
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the ground. The idea of combining the Eastern solution to
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happiness and the Western solution to happiness. One is more
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extroverted success achievement. The other is more inner directed doing
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inner work on ourselves. But we're here to integrate all
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of that into a balanced hole. And so many of
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us who are concerned with the news, and the news
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is designed to point out the pain and the body
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of earth. Just like if our body feels good, but
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our neosaur our attention goes there. That's where we need
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to put our attention to help take care of that
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and improve it and heal it. In the same way
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the media points out the areas of the world. So
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it can seem like a negative type of experience listening
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to the news, But if we stop and step back
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for a moment and look out the window, we probably
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hear a bird singing and trees leaves rippling in the wind,
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depending on the time of year, and maybe some traffic
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going by, and life going on in our daily lives,
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and we get less overwhelmed, and we come back to
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this moment and our own personal space and direct moment.
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It's important to remember both because right today we know
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all the ills all over the world, and we don't
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have control over that, so it can be frustrating to
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many of us and disheartening, and many people today are
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frustrated and a little depressed the post truth era, and
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so I think it's important to come back to our
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grounded reality here and now. There's a quick story about
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this fellow who was playing golf and he sliced the
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ball over a fence and ivy covered fence, and he
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heard something on the other side of the fence, but
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didn't think too much about it. When he finally finished
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was putting out on the final green, he saw police
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people and firefighters and they came up to him and said,
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are you the fellow who sliced a ball over the
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fence in the seventeenth fairway? He said, oh, yeah, I did,
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and they said, do you know what happened? He said no.
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They said, well, it went through the windshield of a
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car and it crashed. Nobody was injured, but the car
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was totally and blocked the road. The fire trucks couldn't
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get to a fire. A house burned down again, nobody hurt.
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But still they said, what are you going to do
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about it? And he thought from it and said, I
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think I'll have to move my grip a little to
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the left because that's all he could do that was
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in his control. And I think today we need to
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know that what's in our control we're responsible for. What
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is not in our control we can't be responsible for,
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So we can only interact with people in our immediate environment.
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And remember that a man came to me once after
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reading Way of the Peaceful Warrior and said, Dan, now
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I'm really interested in spiritual practice, but I'm married, I
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have a wife and three children, and a full time job.
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How can I find the time. And he came to
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understand that his wife, his children, his full time job
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demand more and develop more than sitting in a cave
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and meditating. I usually add, I know this is true
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because I've done both. His family, his job were his
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primary spiritual practices. So the type of approach to spirituality
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that I teach is integrated seamlessly in everyday life. Daily
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life is a form of spiritual weight training. You don't
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lift any weights, you don't get any stronger, and daily
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life will teach us all we need to learn to evolve.
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People were evolving before books and seminars. But you know
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people sometimes ask me, well, wait a minute, day, why
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do you write books? Then? And deep seminars because any
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input that I can offer, any teacher can offer, might
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help people to learn the lessons of daily life more
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gracefully less painfully. And as it turns out, and this
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is more radical, perhaps because you see, I think many
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people interested in personal world's spiritual growth, deep down what
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they're yearning for is to feel bad less of the
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time and to feel good more of the time. And
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so people who promise good feeling are very popular. And
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as it turns out, the arising emotions are like weather
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patterns of the body. They just arise and pass through us.
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And we don't have any more control over what emotions
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arise moment to moment than we do over the passing weather.
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And the same thing with our thoughts. We don't have
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spam filters in our heads. We can't hold on to
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a thought indefinitely or not have a thought happen. I
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often joke with people and say I have a perfect,
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a master technique for being obsessed. Just try not to
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think about something all day. So the fact is we
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don't really have a lot of thoughts happen to us.
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We don't say I think I'll think this thought next.
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They just appear in our field of awareness, the random
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discursive mind. Obviously, we can use our mind and our
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intellect to remember grocery lists and write poetry and so on.
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But I'm talking about the random thoughts that appear. Sometimes
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they're positive, sometimes we'd call them negative. We actually don't
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have a lot of control over that, and so when
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we recognize that, we spend less time concerned with trying
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to fix our emotions, fix our thoughts, and fix our insides, ironically,
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and we focus on what we have more control over,
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which was what we actually do. How we behave moment
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to moment. If I were to intend to touch my nose,
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I could do that. I intend it and my arm
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starts moving. So how we move our arms and legs
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and behave moment to moment really is a key to
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simplifying our life.
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And now a word about Omega Teacher Studio. Get ready
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ten percent discount on any teacher studio tuition, enter the
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code d I ten when registering. That's the letters D
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N I and the numbers one and zero. Now back
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to our episode. There are innumerable life lessons that you
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have come up with and shared with your students and
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readers and over the many years. But I just chose
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a few to talk about. And the first one, aptly
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is the most troubles are self created. So can you
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speak to that and why we humans do such a
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good job of creating our own troubles.
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Well, there's that famous Mark Twain quote. I've had many
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troubles in my life, most of which never happened because
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most of our troubles are either what we call the
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past or what we call the future. But the past
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is past by definition, It's no longer with us, except
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we keep it alive as a set of neural impulses
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we call memory. And someone and I say, no, I
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know the past is real. Dan. I have a picture
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of my last birthday at my birthday party. But all
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that's happening is they're showing me a visual image right
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in this moment, of what they call the past. Same
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with the future. It's our imagination. And it's been said
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many ways by many teachers. But when we start to
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realize that it's not about learning some technique of focusing
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on the present. Our body can only be in the present.
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It's the mind, the attention that flits back and forth,
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and most of our troubles again are not in this moment.
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If I were to take a set of car keys
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or a ball and throw it to somebody and say catch,
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when they're reaching for that ball, they have a cat
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like awareness back to the present moment, or they drop
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the ball, and so as they reach forward, they're not
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thinking about what they did earlier today or what they're
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going to do tomorrow. They're in this moment. And in
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this moment there may indeed be a problem, maybe a
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house is on fire and they have to escape and
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do something. But most of our troubles, again are not
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in this present moment. Most of the time we can
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handle what's in front of us. So that's why it's
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a very important practice to remember more and more the
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loose re nature of the past and future. Future never comes.
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It's always the future. There's no such thing as future happiness.
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Another one of your life lessons, if we could call them, though,
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is the idea of the value of the empty mind.
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But how does one empty their mind? And what does
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it feel like to have an empty mind?
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Assuming that you know, my mind's pretty empty, I don't
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know how to respond. No. Actually, I think it's a
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sort of illusion in a way that we have to
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quiet our mind and empty the mind, and a cheap
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a sense of void. Now, people have experiences in meditation
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where twenty or thirty minutes are longer go by in
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a flash, and they go where was my mind? It
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was empty? That experience of the void. In the spiritual traditions,
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it's referred to as But I don't think that's a
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proper goal because I think whenever we're absorbed in anything. Now,
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for me, it was athletics. When I was doing gymnastics,
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I wasn't thinking about much. I was just pure awareness
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when I was swinging around the bars. That's a beginner's practice,
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But just sitting and having that absorption is much more challenging.
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So I think many people think they're failing in meditation
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because the thoughts are going by, But that's supposed to
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happen because we begin to get a distance from those thoughts,
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the random noise, the yadiyad of mind. So I think
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the idea of how can I empty my mind? I
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think is perhaps a wild goose chase by being absorbed
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in whatever we do, whether it's athletics, playing a musical instrument,
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throwing a frisbee, even a video game. Many people love
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that because it absorbs them in the moment and they're
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not really thinking about anything. They're just focused on what
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they're doing. So that's where we find what we call
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the quiet or empty mind, by being absorbed in whatever
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we're doing. Now, when we can be absorbed, well, let
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me tell another story I think that responds to it.
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Socrates and I are just the two of us in
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the gymnasium after I recovered from my shattered leg, as
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I describe in my first book, and I'm swinging around
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the bar and I do some kind of full twisting
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double somersault and I stick my land Yes, we do.
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We can all relate to that. I stick my landing,
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which is a good thing, and I go, yes, you know,
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And I figured that's a good place to stop for
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the evening. So I tear off my sweatshirt, throw it
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in my workout bag. And soon after, Socrates and I
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are walking down the hallway and he turns to me
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and he says, Dan, you know that last movie you
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did was really sloppy, and I go, I don't understand
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SoC it was the best dismount I did in weeks.
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And he said, I'm not talking about the dismount from
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the high Bar. I'm talking about the way you took
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off your sweatshirt and put it in your bag. And
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that's when he played it out once again that I
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was treating one moment as special and another moment as ordinary.
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But then he added something and I actually got this
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line into the movie version of the book. Just before
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they started shooting. He said, Dan, the difference between us
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is you practice gymnastics. I practice everything. And that was
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a doorway for me because I thought about, what do
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you mean practice everything? But what he meant was most
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of us do things. We do the laundry, we do
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our homework, we do our work for our career and
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so on. But the moment, we view it as practice.
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We're aiming to refine or improve it, and by doing
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that it pulls us deeper into the moment.
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Do you have a daily practice outside of the mindfulness
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that you just described that you live with every day
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in terms of like a meditation practice.
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Or you know. I was introduced in Melbourne, Australia as
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American who's an expert in mindfulness, and the first thing
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I said to the audience was that my wife would
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beg to differ because after I do the dishes, the pots,
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she always finds a spot I missed. So I'm still practicing,
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but really, daily life is my practice now it's not
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separate from daily life. I used to think I knew
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what spirit was for something special, elevated higher than but
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now everywhere I look, I see spirit. So daily life
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is my spiritual practice.
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Your latest book, Peaceful Heart Warrior Spirit, is your first memoir,
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your first fully nonfictional, because your books have been shrouded
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in a little bit of mystery about where we're going
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with the fictional versus you know, versus nonfiction over the years.
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Why now, what inspired you to write your memoir?
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Well, the memoir is actually my culminating book. I don't
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expect to write more books. It was a really great book,
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and a Peaceful Warrior seventeen sixteen. Other books than my
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last book where I was able to reveal the story
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behind the story, and there were numerous reasons for writing it.
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One was to finally acknowledge my lineage and those master
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teachers who helped influence my life and work. Another was
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to establish my friends, because many people imagine me as
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this young athlete met this old guy in the gas station.
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Now he teaches. But there's much more than twenty years
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of intensive preparation and a certain breadth of experience. But
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I wouldn't have written the book yet for those two reasons,
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because we all have our stories. I believe our story
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is our treasure. Everyone has a story that's unique. There's
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not a single story on the planet exactly like yours,
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or mine or anyone else's. But I wrote it to
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shed light on the spiritual quest most of all, because
481
00:28:51.759 --> 00:28:55.680
these four different teachers had radically different approaches. One was
482
00:28:55.720 --> 00:28:59.559
more technology oriented inner work in a brilliant array of
483
00:28:59.599 --> 00:29:05.480
exercizes toward enlightenment. The second was more The Guru, as
484
00:29:05.480 --> 00:29:08.559
I call him, was more a surrender to the divine
485
00:29:08.599 --> 00:29:14.039
directly in the form of a transcendent being. And then
486
00:29:14.200 --> 00:29:18.119
the warrior priest and then the sage all had their
487
00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:21.799
own approaches and all served my own evolution. Now some
488
00:29:21.799 --> 00:29:23.759
people may go, oh, I wish I had those kinds
489
00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:26.599
of teachers, But in a way they do. That's why
490
00:29:26.599 --> 00:29:30.680
I wrote the book, because they can experience some of
491
00:29:31.160 --> 00:29:33.799
the reasons I was attracted to them and the reasons
492
00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:34.319
I moved on.
493
00:29:34.839 --> 00:29:36.960
So do we get to talk about the spoiler alert
494
00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:39.880
for people that are watching and listening today that haven't
495
00:29:39.960 --> 00:29:41.079
yet read the book.
496
00:29:42.039 --> 00:29:45.279
Sure, it's in the preface of the book. My editor said,
497
00:29:45.319 --> 00:29:47.079
maybe we should put it at the end. I said, no,
498
00:29:47.200 --> 00:29:49.680
it has to be in the preface. I have to
499
00:29:49.759 --> 00:29:52.440
let people know because they say, well, wait a minute,
500
00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:57.079
you mentioned four mentors, where is Socrates? And so I
501
00:29:57.960 --> 00:29:59.920
have to you know, was he one of the four?
502
00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:04.480
Why didn't you mention him? So I have to confess
503
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:09.720
in a sense that Socrates was a character based on
504
00:30:09.799 --> 00:30:12.160
a real old guy I met in a service station
505
00:30:12.240 --> 00:30:15.319
about three in the morning. But he was a character
506
00:30:15.400 --> 00:30:18.920
who appeared in the book, just as Daniel shn had
507
00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:22.599
mister Miyagi and the Karate Kid, or Frodo had Gandalf
508
00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:26.119
and Lord of the Rings, or King Arthur had Merlin
509
00:30:26.599 --> 00:30:31.880
in Camelot. So we each had art student mental relationship.
510
00:30:32.279 --> 00:30:37.440
So Socrates was someone I created in order to convey
511
00:30:37.839 --> 00:30:41.400
the teachings that I thought maybe some people might enjoy.
512
00:30:41.799 --> 00:30:44.000
I think it's a big reveal and sort of a
513
00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:46.839
big tickle for a lot of people that have read
514
00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:51.599
your books and identified with Socrates and now are learning
515
00:30:51.640 --> 00:30:53.160
that this was really you.
516
00:30:54.559 --> 00:30:57.039
Well, as I said, as I, as I write in
517
00:30:57.039 --> 00:31:01.400
the preface, Socrates is absolutely re Dan Milman, however, as
518
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:07.519
a fictional character. So they had Socrates all along, and
519
00:31:07.759 --> 00:31:11.680
I have to speak with my own authority now. I
520
00:31:11.720 --> 00:31:17.079
mean the time has come, at my advanced age to
521
00:31:17.079 --> 00:31:20.640
not I don't parrot the words of my former teachers.
522
00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:25.759
They opened doors at insight and in a way, I
523
00:31:25.799 --> 00:31:29.720
couldn't have written Peaceful Warrior without Socrates. And in fact,
524
00:31:29.720 --> 00:31:32.119
in the new book, I have some dialogues with him
525
00:31:32.359 --> 00:31:37.000
that are fanciful but fun, where we debrief my meetings
526
00:31:37.079 --> 00:31:42.160
with each of the four mentors. SoC appears. So he
527
00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:46.640
became tremendously useful to me because when I wrote it,
528
00:31:46.680 --> 00:31:50.480
I was thirty four years old, and I don't think
529
00:31:50.480 --> 00:31:52.960
people really wanted to hear what Dan Milman had to say.
530
00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:58.960
But by playing the naive student, I was able to
531
00:31:59.079 --> 00:32:02.720
draw forth a part of myself. So he became my
532
00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:06.319
news and in a sense, a mentor to me and
533
00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:09.839
to my readers. So in a way, I hope it
534
00:32:09.880 --> 00:32:14.000
will be too disappointing to people. From the start, I
535
00:32:14.039 --> 00:32:17.480
said Peaceful Warrior was a blend of autobiography with some
536
00:32:17.599 --> 00:32:21.319
fictional elements, and so it's just refreshing now with my
537
00:32:21.400 --> 00:32:23.839
final book, I was able to lay it all out there,
538
00:32:24.200 --> 00:32:29.240
the real story behind the story, and yeah, it feels good.
539
00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:30.240
I wouldn't change your word.
540
00:32:32.359 --> 00:32:35.440
I mean, some might say that you were wise beyond
541
00:32:35.480 --> 00:32:40.480
your years. Where's the line between you digging into wisdom
542
00:32:40.640 --> 00:32:42.880
that you already had and maybe didn't consciously know you
543
00:32:42.920 --> 00:32:45.279
had to write that and your creativity, Like they're not
544
00:32:45.279 --> 00:32:49.759
really that separable. Perhaps good point, right, So you might
545
00:32:49.799 --> 00:32:51.799
have been. You might have had a lot more wisdom
546
00:32:51.839 --> 00:32:55.119
and knowledge and insight in writing it at such a
547
00:32:55.160 --> 00:32:56.720
young age than you realize you did.
548
00:32:57.880 --> 00:33:01.920
Yes, in all my training and training ten years with
549
00:33:01.960 --> 00:33:06.119
the first two mentors opened up many doors, so I
550
00:33:06.200 --> 00:33:10.720
was ready to write it. It took shape over seven years,
551
00:33:11.640 --> 00:33:13.839
working and leaving it for a year and then working
552
00:33:13.880 --> 00:33:20.559
some more. And that's just the mysterious shaping one's life.
553
00:33:21.079 --> 00:33:24.079
I don't take direct credit. I don't believe in praise
554
00:33:24.160 --> 00:33:26.920
or blame. I think we're each doing what we're here
555
00:33:26.960 --> 00:33:29.640
to do. I did what I was hardwired to do,
556
00:33:30.519 --> 00:33:36.720
and no praise is necessary. Yeah, I think I really
557
00:33:36.759 --> 00:33:39.720
believe that we're all just doing what we do. And
558
00:33:39.799 --> 00:33:42.680
so I was able to write Peaceful Warrior. Notably, I
559
00:33:42.720 --> 00:33:46.559
didn't write another book for ten years because as much
560
00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:49.400
pressure as there was my publisher write another book. People
561
00:33:49.400 --> 00:33:52.599
are liking this, but I didn't feel I had anything
562
00:33:52.599 --> 00:33:54.720
new to say until I met the Warrior Priest. The
563
00:33:54.799 --> 00:33:57.400
third mentor that I was so excited about all this
564
00:33:57.480 --> 00:34:01.319
new information that I started writing almost a book a year,
565
00:34:04.839 --> 00:34:08.119
And that's just how it unfolded in my case. But
566
00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:10.760
I do want to say we all have access. Some
567
00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:13.639
people call it the ecotic record, but we all have
568
00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:18.679
access to wisdom. Once we have the free attention and
569
00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:22.599
we pull ourselves out of the ruminations and captured by
570
00:34:22.639 --> 00:34:25.400
our inner wonderings about what am I going to do
571
00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:29.039
about my relationship and my body and my finances were
572
00:34:29.119 --> 00:34:36.719
drawn into this inner world of problematic world, and of
573
00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:38.800
course we have to handle what's in front of us
574
00:34:39.199 --> 00:34:42.880
that's part of our training, that's what daily life is for,
575
00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:50.400
that's what eventually develops us. But we don't need to
576
00:34:50.440 --> 00:34:51.519
become obsessed with it.
577
00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:56.800
There are so many different quotes, many of which you
578
00:34:56.880 --> 00:35:00.440
have used in your teachings, about the idea that there's
579
00:35:00.519 --> 00:35:07.039
really one message or one light but many lamps. Is
580
00:35:07.079 --> 00:35:13.480
there one bottom line from all of your learnings, teachings, travels.
581
00:35:14.360 --> 00:35:18.159
You know, many would say that all ancient wisdom traditions,
582
00:35:18.679 --> 00:35:23.079
irregardless of the teacher or the modality, the roads, all
583
00:35:23.159 --> 00:35:23.920
lead to one thing.
584
00:35:24.639 --> 00:35:25.719
Can you name that one thing?
585
00:35:26.519 --> 00:35:28.880
I think Alan Watts referred to it as the perennial
586
00:35:28.880 --> 00:35:32.159
of philosophy. Maybe it was Joseph Campbell. I don't recall
587
00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:38.679
who said that, but it is true human wisdom. Whether
588
00:35:38.719 --> 00:35:42.280
it's couched in the culture of India, the Vedanta, or
589
00:35:42.440 --> 00:35:47.800
the Taoists or Confucius. Every culture has its gifts. Even
590
00:35:47.840 --> 00:35:52.920
the Hawaiian Cahunahs have their depth of knowledge. And so
591
00:35:53.199 --> 00:36:00.480
I believe it is just our human inheritance of wisdomspective,
592
00:36:01.840 --> 00:36:05.480
What is life about? It's the answer to many existential
593
00:36:05.599 --> 00:36:10.599
questions that we pose. Maybe late at night we wake up,
594
00:36:11.079 --> 00:36:16.719
what am I here? For what is life for? But
595
00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:21.599
I will share a brief story because Aldus Huxley, the
596
00:36:21.679 --> 00:36:24.480
author of Brave New World, had his own wisdom and
597
00:36:24.480 --> 00:36:27.519
in fact as much as any Western around his time.
598
00:36:27.559 --> 00:36:31.599
Along with William James and a few others, he actually
599
00:36:31.639 --> 00:36:34.920
practiced and went to different cultures around the world and
600
00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:38.039
didn't just read about them, but he engaged the practices.
601
00:36:38.800 --> 00:36:42.320
And when he was in hospice care near death, his
602
00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:45.719
good friend Houston Smith, who literally wrote the book on
603
00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:50.320
world religions, Houston asked me, said, all this, is there
604
00:36:50.360 --> 00:36:54.159
any way you can summarize everything you've learned from all
605
00:36:54.239 --> 00:36:57.719
your travels and studies. And Professor Huxley said, I'm a
606
00:36:57.760 --> 00:37:01.639
little embarrassed to say can summarize it all in about
607
00:37:01.679 --> 00:37:08.079
six words. Try to be a little kinder and maybe
608
00:37:08.199 --> 00:37:11.039
day to day in our own lives, maybe it comes
609
00:37:11.079 --> 00:37:14.320
down to that. Maybe if we need to distill it
610
00:37:14.360 --> 00:37:19.039
and boil it down, all the spiritual terminology for inner
611
00:37:19.079 --> 00:37:23.840
work and sophisticated knowledge, the question is are you kind?
612
00:37:24.760 --> 00:37:28.760
We're sitting here in Ramdass Library, and I remember Ramdas
613
00:37:29.679 --> 00:37:31.800
used to say, Oh, you think you're enlightened, go visit
614
00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:34.920
your parents. And if you can be kind to them,
615
00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:42.559
then maybe you've learned something, and so perhaps it comes
616
00:37:42.599 --> 00:37:45.199
down to simple things in this moment.
617
00:37:46.719 --> 00:37:49.199
So I have three questions that I like to ask
618
00:37:49.239 --> 00:37:53.159
everybody who visits us here on dropping in the First
619
00:37:53.159 --> 00:37:55.400
one is I'd like to grant you one wish for
620
00:37:55.440 --> 00:38:00.599
our viewers and our listeners. What would you wish for them?
621
00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:04.920
I would wish that they begin to trust the process
622
00:38:04.960 --> 00:38:08.039
of their life unfolding. See, I'm not here for people
623
00:38:08.119 --> 00:38:10.400
to trust me. I'm here to help them trust themselves
624
00:38:11.519 --> 00:38:15.840
and to do that, to stop comparing themselves with other people,
625
00:38:16.639 --> 00:38:19.760
which is in disrespect for our own life, our own process.
626
00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:24.199
When I taught gymnastics, I found that some people learned
627
00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:27.920
somersaults quicker than others, but those who often took longer
628
00:38:27.920 --> 00:38:30.280
to learn it learned it better than those who learned
629
00:38:30.280 --> 00:38:33.519
it faster. So we need to trust our own way
630
00:38:33.719 --> 00:38:36.840
of learning, our own way of living. I think that's
631
00:38:36.920 --> 00:38:39.760
one important element in our lives.
632
00:38:40.760 --> 00:38:42.079
What would you wish for yourself?
633
00:38:44.960 --> 00:38:48.519
My wishes are fulfilled, all of them, I mean, right
634
00:38:48.559 --> 00:38:54.159
now this perfect moment.
635
00:38:57.719 --> 00:39:00.639
And finally, what would you like our viewers and listeners
636
00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:02.559
to take away one thing to take away from our
637
00:39:02.599 --> 00:39:04.519
conversation today of anything.
638
00:39:05.199 --> 00:39:08.360
Yes, I hope they take away exactly what they need,
639
00:39:10.079 --> 00:39:12.840
because it's like a rorshock ink blot or a cloud
640
00:39:12.880 --> 00:39:16.760
in the sky. We each take meaning, and one thing
641
00:39:16.840 --> 00:39:20.079
I've said or you've said will stand out for one person,
642
00:39:20.320 --> 00:39:23.880
and another thing will stand out for another. And in fact,
643
00:39:23.920 --> 00:39:27.039
the same person may listen to this conversation at different
644
00:39:27.039 --> 00:39:30.079
times in their life and hear different things. So I
645
00:39:30.159 --> 00:39:32.840
have no agenda of what they should take out of it.
646
00:39:33.719 --> 00:39:36.079
If people would like to find out more about you,
647
00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:37.760
where can they find you?
648
00:39:37.960 --> 00:39:41.800
Well, thank you for asking. Probably the best place to
649
00:39:41.840 --> 00:39:46.639
stop by to drop in would be Peacefulwarrior dot com
650
00:39:47.400 --> 00:39:50.199
and there's quite a bit there, a free life purpose
651
00:39:50.239 --> 00:39:54.639
calculator and things like that. I like to offer value
652
00:39:54.679 --> 00:39:57.840
for people, so anyway, that's the best place to drop
653
00:39:57.880 --> 00:40:00.159
in if they want to be in contact or in
654
00:40:00.280 --> 00:40:02.400
my email list get my newsletter.
655
00:40:03.039 --> 00:40:04.320
This has been such a pleasure.
656
00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:06.440
I want to thank you so much for making the
657
00:40:06.519 --> 00:40:08.000
time and joining me today.
658
00:40:08.440 --> 00:40:10.519
Thank you so much, it's been a pleasure.
659
00:40:12.320 --> 00:40:15.280
Thanks for dropping in with Omega Institute. If you like
660
00:40:15.320 --> 00:40:17.920
what you hear, tell your friends and leave us a
661
00:40:17.960 --> 00:40:21.480
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662
00:40:21.719 --> 00:40:23.679
If you'd like to see what we look like, watch
663
00:40:23.719 --> 00:40:26.840
the video version of dropping In on Omega's YouTube channel.
664
00:40:27.079 --> 00:40:29.679
Dropping In is made possible in part by the support
665
00:40:29.719 --> 00:40:33.519
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666
00:40:33.559 --> 00:40:37.519
experiences when they donate to help sustain Omega's programming. To
667
00:40:37.599 --> 00:40:42.159
learn more, visit eomega dot org slash membership and check
668
00:40:42.159 --> 00:40:45.920
out our many online learning opportunities featuring your favorite teachers
669
00:40:45.920 --> 00:40:50.000
and thought leaders at eomega dot org slash Online Learning.
670
00:40:50.320 --> 00:40:53.960
I'm Callie Alpert, producer and host of Dropping In. Our
671
00:40:54.079 --> 00:40:57.480
video editor is Gredel Knox. The music and mix or
672
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by Scott Mueller. Thanks for dropping in.