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Welcome to Cultivating Curiosity, where we get down and dirty with the experts on all the ways science and agriculture touch our lives from what we eat to how we live.
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I'm Emily Davenport.
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And I'm Jordan Powers. And we're from the University of Georgia's College of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences.
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We are here today with John Salazar, professor and coordinator of the University of Georgia hospitality and food industry management major. John, thanks for joining us today.
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Wonderful. It's great to be here. Thank you, Emily, and thank you, Jordan, for inviting me.
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Absolutely. To kick off, can you tell us a little bit about your background?
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Sure. Well, I'm the professor and coordinator of the hospitality and food industry management program here at UGA. And I came here after 14 years at the University of South Carolina over on the coast in the Hilton Head Island area, where I was a professor and also director of the Tourism Institute that they had there for University of South Carolina. And prior to that, I was a research director at University of Tennessee in Knoxville. But before my education career, I had been in the hotel business for a few years and was bumped around the country working with some hotel companies.
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So what got you interested in hospitality as a career?
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Wow, that's a great question. And I think it requires maybe a lot longer time than we have time for today.
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Oh, okay. The Cliff Notes?
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Yeah, the Cliff Notes. So when I was growing up, in my high school years, probably about 14, 15, I used to go downtown Chicago to visit my dentist. And my dentist office was right next to the Palmer House Hilton Hotel where I would just hang out in the lobby of the Palmer House Hilton before and after the visit with the dentist. And I really enjoyed that feel. The feel, the activity of the guests coming in and out the busyness of a lobby within one of the oldest operating hotels in North America. And that became a very attractive career proposition for me early on. And when I got into college, I decided to major in hospitality because of some of those experiences in the Chicago hotel market. And from there, I got into the hotel business immediately after graduation with some internships along the way while in college,
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[laughter] working for the Hyatt as a night auditor and also working for the Marriott. After graduation, I took a position at Keystone Resort in Keystone, Colorado, which at the time was the
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I think you might be right.
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largest ski operator in North America, really enjoyed that, was there for a few years, got back into the Marriott family and bumped around the country in the hotel business. My last hotel management position was in Mobile, Alabama. We opened up converted full service Four Diamond hotel, we purchased a Stouffer's hotel, I think I'm probably the only one that in this room that knows what the Stouffer's product is.
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And a friend of mine asked me if I want to be a guest lecturer at the University of South Alabama, and really, really enjoyed that experience.
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And at that point, that company I was working for was paying for half my master's degree. And as soon as I completed that, University of South Alabama asked if I would be interested in teaching. And so I started teaching while I was still working as a hotel manager, and they gave me a full time job offer and my academic career started. My second career, I'd like to say, started at that moment.
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Our next question was going to be, what brought you in academia? But you got it answered. So when we talk about hospitality and food industry management, HFIM, as we often call it, can you explain what the program is for our listeners who might not be at all familiar with a program like this?
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Absolutely. And I'm glad to answer that, because a lot of people ask that question. What is the hospitality discipline? Well, it's a major that is very broad in opportunity. So traditionally, people might think of hotels and restaurants.
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And yes, that's a big component of what we do, but the industry itself is quite larger. So even when I was in college, one of those positions I had in college, I was able to work at Boston's Logan International Airport, which that is a segment of the hospitality industry. So the airline industry is of course, you know, part of the transportation sector. But when you talk about Delta and American Airlines, they provide high level hospitality services there. And not just in the cabin itself. It's a whole process that goes into the management of the hospitality services that the airlines deliver. So when we think about the hospitality business, I like to think of it as an ecosystem. So not only just hotels and restaurants, but resorts, convention centers, the airline industry. It is the broader service sector in the context of travel and tourism.
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And so that's a question that so many people ask, you know, well, is it, am I just kind of focused on hotels and restaurants? No, because there's so many more opportunities in the hospitality sector. And our state offers just such a broad set of opportunities for those that are really interested in the hospitality business.
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And when you say food industry, what does that entail?
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Oh, my. That is one of the largest sectors of the hospitality industry itself.
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So we're talking food, we're talking more than just restaurants. Catering operations. We're talking about even food trucks that are popping up. Event venues that utilize food services. We have food services that cut across the board, even here at UGA related to dining services, Georgia Athletic hospitality is the food services that are provided over at Sanford Stadium, over at Stegman Coliseum. Those are all hospitality operations that require the business knowledge, but also the ability to design a hospitality system to provide efficient and levels of service within a specific time period.
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So we have a great restaurant industry within Georgia. But it's more than just the restaurant sector. We have major conventions downtown Atlanta, which need the support of the food sector, which come through catered operations, meetings and events. And the restaurant sector
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That leads right into my next question is in asking about what type of careers do students who participate in this program, what type of careers can they expect upon graduation?
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It's been an exciting evolution in the last four years because the opportunities our students are receiving after graduation run the gamut. On the hotel side, on the resort side, on the meeting and events side. Even meeting and events that aren't related to the traditional hospitality discipline, as we think it is, like the conventions as you see in downtown Atlanta. We have students that are being hired by law offices and major tech companies and manufacturing companies as they need representation at meetings and conventions and events that are going on throughout the country.
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So our students are in their positions in those companies organizing events and organizing product rollout. And that's exciting, because all of that requires a hospitality mindset regarding logistics, regarding when's the product gonna be delivered? what consumers are going to be there? How should we engage them in this process? And so it runs the gamut from hotels, resorts, country clubs.
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We have students at the Atlanta Athletic Club, we've had students down at Sea Island Resort and Club, we have them down at the Sarasota Yacht Club.
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So we're all over the place in the hospitality industry. And that's really quite exciting.
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Do you have students that are working on cruise ships and things like that as well?
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I have had students on cruise ships. We don't have a UGA alum on a cruise ship yet. But I think we have them in most of the segments for the exception of the cruise ship.
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That's incredible. I love that you said yet we don't have someone on a cruise ship right yet.
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It's coming though.
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Oh, yes.
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For anyone who doesn't know John, he is nonstop. And I guarantee you there will be someone on a cruise ship very soon.
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You just promote that. You get to see the world on a cruise ship.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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And the ocean.
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Sign me up. I think I've heard that most hospitality programs are usually housed in a business school, but not HFIM, which is housed within the College of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences. So what does that mean for the program and the college?
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It's an advantage for us in our hospitality program. Historically, hospitality programs have a well established relationship within the colleges of ag. So some of the older hospitality programs in the country had their starts in colleges of ag, or in collaboration or partnership with colleges of ag. Now, in the last two and a half decades, the colleges of business have been popping up at hospitality programs. And that's been exciting. And I think that's really helped us elevate this discipline in the university setting. However, being in the College of Ag I believe gives us a little bit of flexibility in terms of the curriculum. So when we look at historically those College of Ag programs, they were rooted in colleges of ag because of their relationship to food. Now when we look at our industry as a sector, the restaurant industry carries the largest employment. Gosh, you can't get away from the food sector in the hospitality world, right? If you're staying in a hotel, you're gonna, you're gonna have to eat. If you're going to a convention you're going to have have to eat. It's a very important component of it. The nice thing about being in the College of Ag, it rounds out our ecosystem here. So we have the opportunity to collaborate with the other departments within the college that are more food focused like viticulture, like food science.
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So if we have a student that's really a strong foodie, and we do we have a lot of strong foodies, we've produced a sous chef, head chefs. And we have aspiring foodies that want to take that same track. Those individuals, if they take a viticulture class, they get exposed to wine, winemaking, wine regions, right? If they take some of the food science courses that're related to food manufacturing and food product development, they get to understand more of the science behind creating food. So we have that flexibility to bring that to that student that wants to focus on that. If you're in a college of business, those opportunities become a little bit more limiting because they don't have that type of relationship. And so that's what makes it really exciting for us to be in the College of Ag is those partnerships with our departments that are able to share with us their passion for food, which is a primary component of the hospitality sector.
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As an aspiring foodie myself, I'm like, yes, it all comes down to food.
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Sure, sure. I one of my colleagues, Dr. Dan Remar.
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He's more of our our food Prof.
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And he's organizing an international cuisines class for next year. And he and I joke and I said, he knows a lot about food, I eat it.
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There you go. You need both ends of the spectrum.
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Because if you want to be a head chef, you have to have someone to eat what you're making.
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Exactly. Good partnership.
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So obviously a lot of very close collaboration within CAES. How does HFIM partner with the University of Georgia beyond our college?
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Wow, last four years, has been a whirlwind regarding many departments across the campus wanting to partner with us. Just recently, we've had the nutrition and culinary program out of Family and Consumer Sciences reach out and figure out how to partner up with us. We've been working with the the College of Environmental Design. And with one of our classes, we've kind of taken them on in our classroom to help them create a better event for their program. And our students have done that two years in a row now. We're starting to work more closely with Grady. We have students that are doing dual majors in public relations and hospitality that want to get into the convention or visitor bureau side of the hospitality business. Now, convention and visitors bureaus are a very important part of hospitality.
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They are the ones that bring the hospitality community to life for potential visitors and guests which is responsible for marketing and advertising a community. Well, if you have a PR and hospitality background, you kind of understand how the market segments work, and then how to communicate to those, those potential guests that are coming into your community. So that's really exciting. And outside of the academic component, we are now starting to work with the innovation district, collaborating with the innovation district and the Small Business Development Center and delivering a hospitality entrepreneurship workshop this fall where if you are in the Athens market, and you want to start a restaurant or start a hospitality venue, event venue. And we're going to come in we're going to talk a little bit about hospitality service, segmentation, SBDC is going to talk a little bit about the loan opportunities available in the marketplace.
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[chime]
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The SBDC is the UGA Small Business Development Center, which provides tools, training, and resources to help small businesses grow and succeed. Designated as one of Georgia's top providers of small business assistance, the SBDC has 18 offices across the state to serve the needs of Georgia's business community. We'll include a link in the show notes for you.
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So outside of that, we're working also now with Extension. We've been working with Extension in many different ways trying to develop the extension personnel in their understanding of what the hospitality and tourism industry means in their local communities. So we're working with individuals on the academic side and also the public service and outreach side. Our biggest partner and it's probably our competitive advantage, as far as hospitality program is concerned, is the Georgia Center for Continuing Education and Hotel. We have many of our students that work there part time, many of our students that complete their internships there, and that is our Learning Lab. When I see potential students that want to come to UGA, or they're transferring to UGA, they oftentimes cite the Georgia center as one of the primary motivators for wanting to enroll at UGA because many hospitality programs throughout the country do not have that opportunity. where they have their own self operated hotel on campus affiliated with a hospitality program. So, we have many partners, but our biggest one is just five minutes away from our classroom space. And that's the Georgia Center for Continuing Education and Hotel.
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I feel like a lot of people on campus don't even know that we have a hotel right here on campus, I would have never known if it wasn't literally smack between the parking lot I was assigned to and my office. And I walked by it every day, but even I was like, wait, there's a hotel on campus? That's different.
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Yeah, it's amazing. It seems like it really helps the students gain a competitive edge in the workplace that they might not otherwise get.
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It really does, because it's a full service A lot of our listeners have maybe been to a conference, a hotel. And that's a big qualifier. Full service, meaning they have the food and beverage operations, they have the convention operations, the front office operations, sales, event marketing opportunities, they have laundry services, they have full on needs for housekeeping.
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So the students get to see the entire operation at the Georgia Center. And when I think about some of those, those universities that do have hotels on campus, and there's not many throughout the country that have hospitality programs and hotels on campus, the ones that do, most of those that do, the operator is a third party operator. So it's a management company that's coming in. And when a management company comes in, that's a great opportunity for students, but that management company is really primarily focused on their operational goals and guidelines. Versus us, since we're self operated, those leaders, those managers at the Georgia Center are really focused on the learning for our students. So if we have a student that really wants to dive into something that's different and unique and distinct, and they say, you know, I really want to sharpen my knowledge or expand my knowledge on the restaurant side, specifically in the kitchen, and I really want to work under a chef. Well, they'll make that adjustment where the students can work under that chef over there, that's a little bit tougher to do to pull off with a third party management group. So that's what makes that place a special place.
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professional conference, or been to an event, but might not have considered all of the work that goes into making that event a success. In my past life I actually worked at a Convention and Visitor's Bureau on the marketing side. So I, I consider myself privileged to have been a little bit behind the scenes on some of those things. But for some of our listeners who haven't, how does the HFIM major prepare students to make those events successful?
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Well, let's just kind of step back for a second and go back to that description of the vastness of this industry. So the Atlanta convention market is one of the top 10 convention markets in the United States. You have 195 hotels in the Atlanta market.
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You have millions of square feet of meeting space. A lot of that needs support from the restaurant, the catering, side, audio visual technology, transportation, all of that has to be coordinated. So the small example that we see here at the Georgia center, even though it's 200 rooms, and it's 1000s of square feet of meeting space, opposed to millions, when a meeting comes here to the Georgia center, we still have to provide transportation to and from certain areas, whether it's near the arch or downtown Athens, or to the Classic Center, another convention facility, we have to be able to deliver that service. The restaurants, the catering side needs to support that. We have to have the technology there, which is really important component now, and it has been in the last 20, 25 years, and the tech is moving so much faster. So all of that needs to be in support of the event itself. So whether it's conventions, or even a sporting event, we utilize a lot of times the same infrastructure. That's the exciting thing about the hospitality and tourism industry in the convention sector. It requires so many support services. It's what people don't see behind the scenes that matters the most. And if the guest experiences an event, whether it's a sporting event, whether it's a meeting, whether it's just staying in a hotel, and if everything goes smoothly, and they don't have any issues.
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That's because the stuff behind the scenes is working.
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Mm-hmm.
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Right? And that's the awesome thing about this business. It's the one thing that people don't get to see, I wish we could show them more.
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But what goes on behind the scenes at Augusta National Golf Club during the Masters? People don't see that. But it's a machine. It's a well oiled human machine that delivers that hospitality service. We've had Delta in the classroom talk with our students, and they describe their hospitality machine. And it's really exciting when they talk about, this is how they train and develop their employees, this is how they get the guests to engage with the employees. And it's about the hospitality system that's in place. So there's so much more that happens, especially in the convention event side. And if folks are happy, they won't know what's going on behind the scenes.
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Yeah. Right.
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I love that. And I love your excitement about it.
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Like it's just, it's contagious.
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I wish listeners could see you talking right now, because the excitement and the passion is truly there. And I mean, it's true, I get it, that there are times where I still miss being a restaurant server, because you walk through those doors into the kitchen, and it's just mayhem and yelling, and smoky and loud, and but then you walk out and you're creating this experience for someone that they're not seeing all of the insanity happening behind the scenes, they're just having a wonderful experience.
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Sure.
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And there's something really powerful about that moment.
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And that's, that's a great observation. Because if you're in the manufacturing industry, you've got these production lines that are put in place. Well, our production line is comprised of people. And so when you're working in a kitchen, it is the design of that workflow as built for and executed by people. And then as that food moves out into the public domain, it's about people in that process. And that's a lot to manage. And that's a little different from a production line, it's a little different from making computers, it's a little different from making an automobile, because, you know, we're three individuals in a room right now with three very different personalities. So that's why I firmly believe if you are really a great hospitality manager, you know how to work with variety of not only just guests, but employees in order to deliver a product or service.
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Definitely.
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Absolutely.
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That's an art right there. So on top of some amazing hands on opportunities at UGA, and some, what sounds like incredible classroom guests and whatnot, I also hear that there's some incredible study abroad programs that students get to go on. Can you tell us more about that?
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Oh, yeah. And, gosh, I haven't been able to go on the one that I really want to go on. So, you know, the hospitality industry, oftentimes in the United States, and even the world, it's the first or the second largest industry sector contributed to an economy. So we have a group of students that are really diehard foodies that love to go to Cortona, Italy.
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And that trip to Italy, where they get exposed to winemaking and the wine regions. It's a really important component of our industry, especially those that want to get into club management, club operations, restaurant operations, wine is a big investment. And telling the story about wine is extremely important in terms of profitability. So they get that story exposed to them from that Italian region. This past year, I was able to accompany with a colleague, a group of students, some of whom were hospitality students, down to Cuba, which, the students were exposed to the economics, the agricultural side of Cuba, and then we had experience in terms of going to Farm to Fork establishments. And then we had a lecture hosted by University of Havana where they talked about tourism, and how Cuba is really trying to elevate that and become a larger player in the Caribbean marketplace. So that just happened this past year. And that's been going on with ag and applied econ, and this is our second year. So the first trip was last year.
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Some incredible places to go.
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Yeah.
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Sign us up.
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Yeah.
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Is that gonna be our next travel episode, Emily?
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It should be.
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I want to go to Cortona. So you just touched on the economy and the impact on the economy. And while we've talked on the show before that agriculture is Georgia's number one economic industry, hospitality is number two. Tell us about how hospitality affects the economy here in Georgia and beyond.
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The latest estimates from 2021 for the economic impact of travel and tourism within Georgia. It's an industry that generates over $60 billion in contribution for the state of Georgia, so it's second to agriculture. Now, what that translates into is over 400,000 positions. That's a big chunk of our labor force. With the convention market, as strong as it is in Georgia - and we're not back to pre COVID levels in Atlanta yet, and hopefully we will be soon but we've been inching forward to those levels, pre COVID levels. With the convention activity in Atlanta, Savannah is a very popular market on the Eastern Seaboard.
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And they also added more convention space to the city of Savannah, which was a major investment that was driven by Governor Kemp's decision to make sure that Savannah was a player in the convention marketplace.
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So we have not only Atlanta as a major convention destination, we have Savannah which is growing in its convention demand, but Savannah has also been a great leisure destination. A great destination for weddings, a great destination for leisure getaways. A little further south, the Golden Isles has been consistently ranked in travel and leisure is one of the top island communities to go to in the United States. So St.
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Simons, Jekyll Island, has been blossoming year over year. And then you combine that with a tourism for North Georgia that has been growing steadily in the last couple of decades. With the Blue Ridge, North Georgia mountains, the economy within Georgia is getting more impacted by the hospitality industry because the growth and visitor demand has been increasing year over year. We have, according to Explore Georgia, Georgia Department of Economic Development, Georgia is fifth in its visitor market share in the United States, which is really quite amazing.
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Mm-hmm.
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Big deal.
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And we are one of the top 10 visited states in the country. When you combine what happens in Atlanta, the access, you know, Atlanta Hartsfield, right, the busiest airport in the world. We have great access to the world and the world has great access to us. All of these are important parts of this Hospitality and Tourism ecosystem, which allows us to be as successful as we can be and compete with states that a lot of people go, well, wow, gosh, how are we competing with Florida? How are we competing with California and Texas? Well, we are. So from an economic standpoint, it's a significant contributor to the economy.
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Indirectly it becomes even a strong contributor to even companies choosing to relocate here because if you have a CEO that comes into Savannah for a meeting and says, Oh my gosh, I can bring my company down here and have a plant and pooler and my employees will have access to this wonderful, the wonderful amenities on the Atlantic coast.
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I think we might choose to do this. Same thing in North Georgia, same thing with Atlanta, you know, companies coming into Atlanta because access to the world distribution systems. So if they're coming in for a convention and a CEO sees that, that becomes very impactful, and sometimes part of that decision process.
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I haven't thought about any of that. I love it.
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It's all behind the curtain.
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Right? It is behind the curtain. All those things to consider. It's all connected. A little bit ago, you touched briefly on partnering with Extension. And can you talk a little bit more about this partnership and how it impacts local communities across Georgia?
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Yeah, this is one of the new efforts, recent efforts for our program, where we now will have three faculty members including myself that have an Extension-related responsibility. We have devised an Extension effort that focuses on, first is the food. Local food sourcing, also the development of operators within communities, rural communities, if they want to expand their agritourism component, add on a restaurant, create an event venue, we will help them develop those types of attractions on their property. We also are hiring a third faculty member that will be starting this fall and she delivered for University of Missouri destination development courses for agritourism for the state of Missouri. So she's going to have more of an agritourism development type of responsibility. Working with convention visitor bureaus, Main Street organizations and Extension agents really help them develop their rural attractiveness in the marketplace to really elevate their agritourism interests. I'm in that hotel slash restaurant slash development world. So I kind of toggle both. And this will be one of the few hospitality extension efforts in the United States tied directly to a hospitality management program. So this is really quite exciting.
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Yeah.
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So exciting.
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I know, like I said, I wish people could see you, because you're so excited.
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So one of the first programs as is that program with the Innovation District where we're creating a seminar for hospitality entrepreneurs. The other one is that we will be developing an agritourism workshop for farmers that want to figure out how to maximize profitability on their land and maximizing it by developing hospitality operations.
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Mm, very cool.
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So we're looking to roll that out for the fall.
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What an incredible opportunity. Wow. So we know there's a lot going on in HFIM between these exciting partnerships, between the constantly expanding student numbers. We also know that the niche rankings of Best Colleges with Hospitality and Tourism Management degrees just came out. And HFIM was ranked fourth in the country among all private and public universities and first among all public universities, which is incredibly exciting. I also know that you are not one to rest there. What is in store for the future of HFIM?
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Wow, as I had said earlier, we have a third faculty member that's coming in. And she's going to contribute to the Extension mission. And we also have Dr. Dan Remar that's contributing to the Extension mission as well. So that is going to take up some time as we move forward. As far as the curriculum is concerned, we will continue to tweak our curriculum to retain this attractiveness of our program. Again, being in the College of Ag becomes really important. It gives us the ability to create a dynamic program that becomes very attractive to potential hospitality students. So in the upcoming year, we're going to be offering an international cuisines and cultures class taught by Dr. Dan Remar. And that helps us dive a little deeper into food and beverage, but we're also going to be delivering a beverage management class. And that's going to be in collaboration in partnership with the Georgia Center across the street. And that's where students are going to understand a little bit more about the process behind some of the beverages that we deliver in the marketplace, which is a really important part of profitability for a restaurant, and it's also probably the part of the restaurant that loses the most money quickly. So being able to manage the beverage component of a restaurant operations is the difference between success or failure. So we'll be delivering a beverage management class as well. We're diving a little bit deeper into that food component.
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We'll continue to explore the possibilities and potential, but also, we have great opportunities to increase our programming with the Georgia Center, creating more opportunities for our students, whether it's in sales and event management, revenue management, helping out in human resources, elevating our programming with the Georgia Center and integrating that a little bit more into our curriculum will allow us to continue to grow in these rankings as well.
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So much work ahead. But all for very good reason.
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Yeah.
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Really good payoff, it sounds like.
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Definitely. All right. Well, now is a new section of our podcast that we are trying out, which is audience Q&A. And we asked some people on Instagram, okay, so we asked, what has made a hotel stay more memorable for our audience? And a couple of people chimed in. mmlameir answered that kind people and welcoming environment. And Sue Myers Smith answered when someone at the hotel went out of their way to do something nice. So how is the HFIM program training students to provide memorable experiences like this for people?
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I really love that your audience said that. Because what it points out is the people aspect of our business. It's not the fanciest infrastructure.
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It's not the best menu, it's about people. So on day one, in our classes, we talk about this being a people centered business, you have to be a people person. So we learned that on day one and we teach that in our curriculum throughout all of our courses about developing systems to help execute a level of service that exceeds guest expectations.
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So one of the other things that came up in a lot of the answers that we received from the audience was mentioning the importance of hotel cleanliness and dining room cleanliness, especially in the light of COVID, of course.
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How does, this might be a kind of a different question, but how does the industry prioritize cleanliness? And what impact did COVID have on these practices?
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Boy, I love this question. And why do I love this question? Because I have experience as an executive housekeeper for large properties. And before COVID, executive housekeepers in the US, they're kind of like, how do I say it? They are the sergeants and the drill sergeants. They are on the front lines of the industry. The housekeeping workforce within a hotel is oftentimes the largest single division of employment within a hotel. So oftentimes that executive housekeeper has the most employees. And prior to COVID there was some, you know, respect for it. But after, oh my gosh, people started really realizing how important cleanliness really, really was.
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And is. Now we have collaborated with the Georgia Center in terms of a guest satisfaction survey.
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And room cleanliness is one of those leading predictors of guest satisfaction. So it is one of those number one attributes people are looking for.
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Well, we've covered a lot today from on all the student opportunities available with the HFIM program and all the way to the impact of hospitality on Georgia's economy, what have we missed?
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I'm astonished and amazed that our program has grown so, so exponentially in the last four years. And I think that growth is demonstrative of students, potential students that they wanted this major here at UGA. But it's also a signal that the state of Georgia wanted it because the partnerships and the collaborations that we have across the state of Georgia, whether it's the Georgia Department of Economic Development Explore Georgia, or Sea Islands, or Augusta or Callaway Gardens, the industry has been, I guess, crying out for this. And they're showing that by how they're engaging our department. And that's exciting.
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Pretty incredible. Well, thank you for taking the time to join us today. We learned a lot and I thought I had a little bit of an inside scoop on the industry and I learned a million and two things today. Thank you so much for taking the time to tell us a little bit more about the program.
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Thanks for having me.
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Thank you.
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[music]
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Thanks for listening to Cultivating Curiosity, a podcast produced by the UGA College of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences. A special thanks to Mason McClintock for our music and sound effects. Find more episodes wherever you get your podcasts.
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[music]
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Welcome to Cultivating Curiosity, where we get down and dirty with the experts on all the ways science and agriculture touch our lives from what we eat to how we live.
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I'm Emily Davenport.
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And I'm Jordan Powers. And we're from the University of Georgia's College of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences.
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[chime]
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We are here today with John Salazar, professor and coordinator of the University of Georgia hospitality and food industry management major. John, thanks for joining us today.
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Wonderful. It's great to be here. Thank you, Emily, and thank you, Jordan, for inviting me.
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Absolutely. To kick off, can you tell us a little bit about your background?
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Sure. Well, I'm the professor and coordinator of the hospitality and food industry management program here at UGA. And I came here after 14 years at the University of South Carolina over on the coast in the Hilton Head Island area, where I was a professor and also director of the Tourism Institute that they had there for University of South Carolina. And prior to that, I was a research director at University of Tennessee in Knoxville. But before my education career, I had been in the hotel business for a few years and was bumped around the country working with some hotel companies.
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So what got you interested in hospitality as a career?
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Wow, that's a great question. And I think it requires maybe a lot longer time than we have time for today.
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Oh, okay. The Cliff Notes?
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Yeah, the Cliff Notes. So when I was growing up, in my high school years, probably about 14, 15, I used to go downtown Chicago to visit my dentist. And my dentist office was right next to the Palmer House Hilton Hotel where I would just hang out in the lobby of the Palmer House Hilton before and after the visit with the dentist. And I really enjoyed that feel. The feel, the activity of the guests coming in and out the busyness of a lobby within one of the oldest operating hotels in North America. And that became a very attractive career proposition for me early on. And when I got into college, I decided to major in hospitality because of some of those experiences in the Chicago hotel market. And from there, I got into the hotel business immediately after graduation with some internships along the way while in college,
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[laughter] working for the Hyatt as a night auditor and also working for the Marriott. After graduation, I took a position at Keystone Resort in Keystone, Colorado, which at the time was the
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I think you might be right.
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largest ski operator in North America, really enjoyed that, was there for a few years, got back into the Marriott family and bumped around the country in the hotel business. My last hotel management position was in Mobile, Alabama. We opened up converted full service Four Diamond hotel, we purchased a Stouffer's hotel, I think I'm probably the only one that in this room that knows what the Stouffer's product is.
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And a friend of mine asked me if I want to be a guest lecturer at the University of South Alabama, and really, really enjoyed that experience.
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And at that point, that company I was working for was paying for half my master's degree. And as soon as I completed that, University of South Alabama asked if I would be interested in teaching. And so I started teaching while I was still working as a hotel manager, and they gave me a full time job offer and my academic career started. My second career, I'd like to say, started at that moment.
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Our next question was going to be, what brought you in academia? But you got it answered. So when we talk about hospitality and food industry management, HFIM, as we often call it, can you explain what the program is for our listeners who might not be at all familiar with a program like this?
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Absolutely. And I'm glad to answer that, because a lot of people ask that question. What is the hospitality discipline? Well, it's a major that is very broad in opportunity. So traditionally, people might think of hotels and restaurants.
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And yes, that's a big component of what we do, but the industry itself is quite larger. So even when I was in college, one of those positions I had in college, I was able to work at Boston's Logan International Airport, which that is a segment of the hospitality industry. So the airline industry is of course, you know, part of the transportation sector. But when you talk about Delta and American Airlines, they provide high level hospitality services there. And not just in the cabin itself. It's a whole process that goes into the management of the hospitality services that the airlines deliver. So when we think about the hospitality business, I like to think of it as an ecosystem. So not only just hotels and restaurants, but resorts, convention centers, the airline industry. It is the broader service sector in the context of travel and tourism.
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And so that's a question that so many people ask, you know, well, is it, am I just kind of focused on hotels and restaurants? No, because there's so many more opportunities in the hospitality sector. And our state offers just such a broad set of opportunities for those that are really interested in the hospitality business.
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And when you say food industry, what does that entail?
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Oh, my. That is one of the largest sectors of the hospitality industry itself.
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So we're talking food, we're talking more than just restaurants. Catering operations. We're talking about even food trucks that are popping up. Event venues that utilize food services. We have food services that cut across the board, even here at UGA related to dining services, Georgia Athletic hospitality is the food services that are provided over at Sanford Stadium, over at Stegman Coliseum. Those are all hospitality operations that require the business knowledge, but also the ability to design a hospitality system to provide efficient and levels of service within a specific time period.
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So we have a great restaurant industry within Georgia. But it's more than just the restaurant sector. We have major conventions downtown Atlanta, which need the support of the food sector, which come through catered operations, meetings and events. And the restaurant sector
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That leads right into my next question is in asking about what type of careers do students who participate in this program, what type of careers can they expect upon graduation?
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It's been an exciting evolution in the last four years because the opportunities our students are receiving after graduation run the gamut. On the hotel side, on the resort side, on the meeting and events side. Even meeting and events that aren't related to the traditional hospitality discipline, as we think it is, like the conventions as you see in downtown Atlanta. We have students that are being hired by law offices and major tech companies and manufacturing companies as they need representation at meetings and conventions and events that are going on throughout the country.
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So our students are in their positions in those companies organizing events and organizing product rollout. And that's exciting, because all of that requires a hospitality mindset regarding logistics, regarding when's the product gonna be delivered? what consumers are going to be there? How should we engage them in this process? And so it runs the gamut from hotels, resorts, country clubs.
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We have students at the Atlanta Athletic Club, we've had students down at Sea Island Resort and Club, we have them down at the Sarasota Yacht Club.
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So we're all over the place in the hospitality industry. And that's really quite exciting.
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Do you have students that are working on cruise ships and things like that as well?
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I have had students on cruise ships. We don't have a UGA alum on a cruise ship yet. But I think we have them in most of the segments for the exception of the cruise ship.
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That's incredible. I love that you said yet we don't have someone on a cruise ship right yet.
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It's coming though.
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Oh, yes.
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For anyone who doesn't know John, he is nonstop. And I guarantee you there will be someone on a cruise ship very soon.
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You just promote that. You get to see the world on a cruise ship.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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And the ocean.
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Sign me up. I think I've heard that most hospitality programs are usually housed in a business school, but not HFIM, which is housed within the College of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences. So what does that mean for the program and the college?
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It's an advantage for us in our hospitality program. Historically, hospitality programs have a well established relationship within the colleges of ag. So some of the older hospitality programs in the country had their starts in colleges of ag, or in collaboration or partnership with colleges of ag. Now, in the last two and a half decades, the colleges of business have been popping up at hospitality programs. And that's been exciting. And I think that's really helped us elevate this discipline in the university setting. However, being in the College of Ag I believe gives us a little bit of flexibility in terms of the curriculum. So when we look at historically those College of Ag programs, they were rooted in colleges of ag because of their relationship to food. Now when we look at our industry as a sector, the restaurant industry carries the largest employment. Gosh, you can't get away from the food sector in the hospitality world, right? If you're staying in a hotel, you're gonna, you're gonna have to eat. If you're going to a convention you're going to have have to eat. It's a very important component of it. The nice thing about being in the College of Ag, it rounds out our ecosystem here. So we have the opportunity to collaborate with the other departments within the college that are more food focused like viticulture, like food science.
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So if we have a student that's really a strong foodie, and we do we have a lot of strong foodies, we've produced a sous chef, head chefs. And we have aspiring foodies that want to take that same track. Those individuals, if they take a viticulture class, they get exposed to wine, winemaking, wine regions, right? If they take some of the food science courses that're related to food manufacturing and food product development, they get to understand more of the science behind creating food. So we have that flexibility to bring that to that student that wants to focus on that. If you're in a college of business, those opportunities become a little bit more limiting because they don't have that type of relationship. And so that's what makes it really exciting for us to be in the College of Ag is those partnerships with our departments that are able to share with us their passion for food, which is a primary component of the hospitality sector.
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As an aspiring foodie myself, I'm like, yes, it all comes down to food.
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Sure, sure. I one of my colleagues, Dr. Dan Remar.
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He's more of our our food Prof.
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And he's organizing an international cuisines class for next year. And he and I joke and I said, he knows a lot about food, I eat it.
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There you go. You need both ends of the spectrum.
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Because if you want to be a head chef, you have to have someone to eat what you're making.
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Exactly. Good partnership.
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So obviously a lot of very close collaboration within CAES. How does HFIM partner with the University of Georgia beyond our college?
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Wow, last four years, has been a whirlwind regarding many departments across the campus wanting to partner with us. Just recently, we've had the nutrition and culinary program out of Family and Consumer Sciences reach out and figure out how to partner up with us. We've been working with the the College of Environmental Design. And with one of our classes, we've kind of taken them on in our classroom to help them create a better event for their program. And our students have done that two years in a row now. We're starting to work more closely with Grady. We have students that are doing dual majors in public relations and hospitality that want to get into the convention or visitor bureau side of the hospitality business. Now, convention and visitors bureaus are a very important part of hospitality.
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They are the ones that bring the hospitality community to life for potential visitors and guests which is responsible for marketing and advertising a community. Well, if you have a PR and hospitality background, you kind of understand how the market segments work, and then how to communicate to those, those potential guests that are coming into your community. So that's really exciting. And outside of the academic component, we are now starting to work with the innovation district, collaborating with the innovation district and the Small Business Development Center and delivering a hospitality entrepreneurship workshop this fall where if you are in the Athens market, and you want to start a restaurant or start a hospitality venue, event venue. And we're going to come in we're going to talk a little bit about hospitality service, segmentation, SBDC is going to talk a little bit about the loan opportunities available in the marketplace.
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[chime]
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The SBDC is the UGA Small Business Development Center, which provides tools, training, and resources to help small businesses grow and succeed. Designated as one of Georgia's top providers of small business assistance, the SBDC has 18 offices across the state to serve the needs of Georgia's business community. We'll include a link in the show notes for you.
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[chime]
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So outside of that, we're working also now with Extension. We've been working with Extension in many different ways trying to develop the extension personnel in their understanding of what the hospitality and tourism industry means in their local communities. So we're working with individuals on the academic side and also the public service and outreach side. Our biggest partner and it's probably our competitive advantage, as far as hospitality program is concerned, is the Georgia Center for Continuing Education and Hotel. We have many of our students that work there part time, many of our students that complete their internships there, and that is our Learning Lab. When I see potential students that want to come to UGA, or they're transferring to UGA, they oftentimes cite the Georgia center as one of the primary motivators for wanting to enroll at UGA because many hospitality programs throughout the country do not have that opportunity. where they have their own self operated hotel on campus affiliated with a hospitality program. So, we have many partners, but our biggest one is just five minutes away from our classroom space. And that's the Georgia Center for Continuing Education and Hotel.
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I feel like a lot of people on campus don't even know that we have a hotel right here on campus, I would have never known if it wasn't literally smack between the parking lot I was assigned to and my office. And I walked by it every day, but even I was like, wait, there's a hotel on campus? That's different.
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Yeah, it's amazing. It seems like it really helps the students gain a competitive edge in the workplace that they might not otherwise get.
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It really does, because it's a full service A lot of our listeners have maybe been to a conference, a hotel. And that's a big qualifier. Full service, meaning they have the food and beverage operations, they have the convention operations, the front office operations, sales, event marketing opportunities, they have laundry services, they have full on needs for housekeeping.
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So the students get to see the entire operation at the Georgia Center. And when I think about some of those, those universities that do have hotels on campus, and there's not many throughout the country that have hospitality programs and hotels on campus, the ones that do, most of those that do, the operator is a third party operator. So it's a management company that's coming in. And when a management company comes in, that's a great opportunity for students, but that management company is really primarily focused on their operational goals and guidelines. Versus us, since we're self operated, those leaders, those managers at the Georgia Center are really focused on the learning for our students. So if we have a student that really wants to dive into something that's different and unique and distinct, and they say, you know, I really want to sharpen my knowledge or expand my knowledge on the restaurant side, specifically in the kitchen, and I really want to work under a chef. Well, they'll make that adjustment where the students can work under that chef over there, that's a little bit tougher to do to pull off with a third party management group. So that's what makes that place a special place.
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professional conference, or been to an event, but might not have considered all of the work that goes into making that event a success. In my past life I actually worked at a Convention and Visitor's Bureau on the marketing side. So I, I consider myself privileged to have been a little bit behind the scenes on some of those things. But for some of our listeners who haven't, how does the HFIM major prepare students to make those events successful?
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Well, let's just kind of step back for a second and go back to that description of the vastness of this industry. So the Atlanta convention market is one of the top 10 convention markets in the United States. You have 195 hotels in the Atlanta market.
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You have millions of square feet of meeting space. A lot of that needs support from the restaurant, the catering, side, audio visual technology, transportation, all of that has to be coordinated. So the small example that we see here at the Georgia center, even though it's 200 rooms, and it's 1000s of square feet of meeting space, opposed to millions, when a meeting comes here to the Georgia center, we still have to provide transportation to and from certain areas, whether it's near the arch or downtown Athens, or to the Classic Center, another convention facility, we have to be able to deliver that service. The restaurants, the catering side needs to support that. We have to have the technology there, which is really important component now, and it has been in the last 20, 25 years, and the tech is moving so much faster. So all of that needs to be in support of the event itself. So whether it's conventions, or even a sporting event, we utilize a lot of times the same infrastructure. That's the exciting thing about the hospitality and tourism industry in the convention sector. It requires so many support services. It's what people don't see behind the scenes that matters the most. And if the guest experiences an event, whether it's a sporting event, whether it's a meeting, whether it's just staying in a hotel, and if everything goes smoothly, and they don't have any issues.
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That's because the stuff behind the scenes is working.
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Mm-hmm.
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Right? And that's the awesome thing about this business. It's the one thing that people don't get to see, I wish we could show them more.
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But what goes on behind the scenes at Augusta National Golf Club during the Masters? People don't see that. But it's a machine. It's a well oiled human machine that delivers that hospitality service. We've had Delta in the classroom talk with our students, and they describe their hospitality machine. And it's really exciting when they talk about, this is how they train and develop their employees, this is how they get the guests to engage with the employees. And it's about the hospitality system that's in place. So there's so much more that happens, especially in the convention event side. And if folks are happy, they won't know what's going on behind the scenes.
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Yeah. Right.
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I love that. And I love your excitement about it.
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Like it's just, it's contagious.
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I wish listeners could see you talking right now, because the excitement and the passion is truly there. And I mean, it's true, I get it, that there are times where I still miss being a restaurant server, because you walk through those doors into the kitchen, and it's just mayhem and yelling, and smoky and loud, and but then you walk out and you're creating this experience for someone that they're not seeing all of the insanity happening behind the scenes, they're just having a wonderful experience.
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Sure.
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And there's something really powerful about that moment.
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And that's, that's a great observation. Because if you're in the manufacturing industry, you've got these production lines that are put in place. Well, our production line is comprised of people. And so when you're working in a kitchen, it is the design of that workflow as built for and executed by people. And then as that food moves out into the public domain, it's about people in that process. And that's a lot to manage. And that's a little different from a production line, it's a little different from making computers, it's a little different from making an automobile, because, you know, we're three individuals in a room right now with three very different personalities. So that's why I firmly believe if you are really a great hospitality manager, you know how to work with variety of not only just guests, but employees in order to deliver a product or service.
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Definitely.
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Absolutely.
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That's an art right there. So on top of some amazing hands on opportunities at UGA, and some, what sounds like incredible classroom guests and whatnot, I also hear that there's some incredible study abroad programs that students get to go on. Can you tell us more about that?
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Oh, yeah. And, gosh, I haven't been able to go on the one that I really want to go on. So, you know, the hospitality industry, oftentimes in the United States, and even the world, it's the first or the second largest industry sector contributed to an economy. So we have a group of students that are really diehard foodies that love to go to Cortona, Italy.
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And that trip to Italy, where they get exposed to winemaking and the wine regions. It's a really important component of our industry, especially those that want to get into club management, club operations, restaurant operations, wine is a big investment. And telling the story about wine is extremely important in terms of profitability. So they get that story exposed to them from that Italian region. This past year, I was able to accompany with a colleague, a group of students, some of whom were hospitality students, down to Cuba, which, the students were exposed to the economics, the agricultural side of Cuba, and then we had experience in terms of going to Farm to Fork establishments. And then we had a lecture hosted by University of Havana where they talked about tourism, and how Cuba is really trying to elevate that and become a larger player in the Caribbean marketplace. So that just happened this past year. And that's been going on with ag and applied econ, and this is our second year. So the first trip was last year.
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Some incredible places to go.
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Yeah.
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Sign us up.
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Yeah.
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Is that gonna be our next travel episode, Emily?
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It should be.
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I want to go to Cortona. So you just touched on the economy and the impact on the economy. And while we've talked on the show before that agriculture is Georgia's number one economic industry, hospitality is number two. Tell us about how hospitality affects the economy here in Georgia and beyond.
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The latest estimates from 2021 for the economic impact of travel and tourism within Georgia. It's an industry that generates over $60 billion in contribution for the state of Georgia, so it's second to agriculture. Now, what that translates into is over 400,000 positions. That's a big chunk of our labor force. With the convention market, as strong as it is in Georgia - and we're not back to pre COVID levels in Atlanta yet, and hopefully we will be soon but we've been inching forward to those levels, pre COVID levels. With the convention activity in Atlanta, Savannah is a very popular market on the Eastern Seaboard.
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And they also added more convention space to the city of Savannah, which was a major investment that was driven by Governor Kemp's decision to make sure that Savannah was a player in the convention marketplace.
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So we have not only Atlanta as a major convention destination, we have Savannah which is growing in its convention demand, but Savannah has also been a great leisure destination. A great destination for weddings, a great destination for leisure getaways. A little further south, the Golden Isles has been consistently ranked in travel and leisure is one of the top island communities to go to in the United States. So St.
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Simons, Jekyll Island, has been blossoming year over year. And then you combine that with a tourism for North Georgia that has been growing steadily in the last couple of decades. With the Blue Ridge, North Georgia mountains, the economy within Georgia is getting more impacted by the hospitality industry because the growth and visitor demand has been increasing year over year. We have, according to Explore Georgia, Georgia Department of Economic Development, Georgia is fifth in its visitor market share in the United States, which is really quite amazing.
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Mm-hmm.
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Big deal.
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And we are one of the top 10 visited states in the country. When you combine what happens in Atlanta, the access, you know, Atlanta Hartsfield, right, the busiest airport in the world. We have great access to the world and the world has great access to us. All of these are important parts of this Hospitality and Tourism ecosystem, which allows us to be as successful as we can be and compete with states that a lot of people go, well, wow, gosh, how are we competing with Florida? How are we competing with California and Texas? Well, we are. So from an economic standpoint, it's a significant contributor to the economy.
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Indirectly it becomes even a strong contributor to even companies choosing to relocate here because if you have a CEO that comes into Savannah for a meeting and says, Oh my gosh, I can bring my company down here and have a plant and pooler and my employees will have access to this wonderful, the wonderful amenities on the Atlantic coast.
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I think we might choose to do this. Same thing in North Georgia, same thing with Atlanta, you know, companies coming into Atlanta because access to the world distribution systems. So if they're coming in for a convention and a CEO sees that, that becomes very impactful, and sometimes part of that decision process.
00:27:29.509 --> 00:27:32.779
I haven't thought about any of that. I love it.
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It's all behind the curtain.
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Right? It is behind the curtain. All those things to consider. It's all connected. A little bit ago, you touched briefly on partnering with Extension. And can you talk a little bit more about this partnership and how it impacts local communities across Georgia?
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Yeah, this is one of the new efforts, recent efforts for our program, where we now will have three faculty members including myself that have an Extension-related responsibility. We have devised an Extension effort that focuses on, first is the food. Local food sourcing, also the development of operators within communities, rural communities, if they want to expand their agritourism component, add on a restaurant, create an event venue, we will help them develop those types of attractions on their property. We also are hiring a third faculty member that will be starting this fall and she delivered for University of Missouri destination development courses for agritourism for the state of Missouri. So she's going to have more of an agritourism development type of responsibility. Working with convention visitor bureaus, Main Street organizations and Extension agents really help them develop their rural attractiveness in the marketplace to really elevate their agritourism interests. I'm in that hotel slash restaurant slash development world. So I kind of toggle both. And this will be one of the few hospitality extension efforts in the United States tied directly to a hospitality management program. So this is really quite exciting.
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Yeah.
00:29:20.009 --> 00:29:20.519
So exciting.
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I know, like I said, I wish people could see you, because you're so excited.
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So one of the first programs as is that program with the Innovation District where we're creating a seminar for hospitality entrepreneurs. The other one is that we will be developing an agritourism workshop for farmers that want to figure out how to maximize profitability on their land and maximizing it by developing hospitality operations.
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Mm, very cool.
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So we're looking to roll that out for the fall.
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What an incredible opportunity. Wow. So we know there's a lot going on in HFIM between these exciting partnerships, between the constantly expanding student numbers. We also know that the niche rankings of Best Colleges with Hospitality and Tourism Management degrees just came out. And HFIM was ranked fourth in the country among all private and public universities and first among all public universities, which is incredibly exciting. I also know that you are not one to rest there. What is in store for the future of HFIM?
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Wow, as I had said earlier, we have a third faculty member that's coming in. And she's going to contribute to the Extension mission. And we also have Dr. Dan Remar that's contributing to the Extension mission as well. So that is going to take up some time as we move forward. As far as the curriculum is concerned, we will continue to tweak our curriculum to retain this attractiveness of our program. Again, being in the College of Ag becomes really important. It gives us the ability to create a dynamic program that becomes very attractive to potential hospitality students. So in the upcoming year, we're going to be offering an international cuisines and cultures class taught by Dr. Dan Remar. And that helps us dive a little deeper into food and beverage, but we're also going to be delivering a beverage management class. And that's going to be in collaboration in partnership with the Georgia Center across the street. And that's where students are going to understand a little bit more about the process behind some of the beverages that we deliver in the marketplace, which is a really important part of profitability for a restaurant, and it's also probably the part of the restaurant that loses the most money quickly. So being able to manage the beverage component of a restaurant operations is the difference between success or failure. So we'll be delivering a beverage management class as well. We're diving a little bit deeper into that food component.
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We'll continue to explore the possibilities and potential, but also, we have great opportunities to increase our programming with the Georgia Center, creating more opportunities for our students, whether it's in sales and event management, revenue management, helping out in human resources, elevating our programming with the Georgia Center and integrating that a little bit more into our curriculum will allow us to continue to grow in these rankings as well.
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So much work ahead. But all for very good reason.
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Yeah.
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Really good payoff, it sounds like.
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Definitely. All right. Well, now is a new section of our podcast that we are trying out, which is audience Q&A. And we asked some people on Instagram, okay, so we asked, what has made a hotel stay more memorable for our audience? And a couple of people chimed in. mmlameir answered that kind people and welcoming environment. And Sue Myers Smith answered when someone at the hotel went out of their way to do something nice. So how is the HFIM program training students to provide memorable experiences like this for people?
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I really love that your audience said that. Because what it points out is the people aspect of our business. It's not the fanciest infrastructure.
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It's not the best menu, it's about people. So on day one, in our classes, we talk about this being a people centered business, you have to be a people person. So we learned that on day one and we teach that in our curriculum throughout all of our courses about developing systems to help execute a level of service that exceeds guest expectations.
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So one of the other things that came up in a lot of the answers that we received from the audience was mentioning the importance of hotel cleanliness and dining room cleanliness, especially in the light of COVID, of course.
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How does, this might be a kind of a different question, but how does the industry prioritize cleanliness? And what impact did COVID have on these practices?
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Boy, I love this question. And why do I love this question? Because I have experience as an executive housekeeper for large properties. And before COVID, executive housekeepers in the US, they're kind of like, how do I say it? They are the sergeants and the drill sergeants. They are on the front lines of the industry. The housekeeping workforce within a hotel is oftentimes the largest single division of employment within a hotel. So oftentimes that executive housekeeper has the most employees. And prior to COVID there was some, you know, respect for it. But after, oh my gosh, people started really realizing how important cleanliness really, really was.
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And is. Now we have collaborated with the Georgia Center in terms of a guest satisfaction survey.
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And room cleanliness is one of those leading predictors of guest satisfaction. So it is one of those number one attributes people are looking for.
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Well, we've covered a lot today from on all the student opportunities available with the HFIM program and all the way to the impact of hospitality on Georgia's economy, what have we missed?
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I'm astonished and amazed that our program has grown so, so exponentially in the last four years. And I think that growth is demonstrative of students, potential students that they wanted this major here at UGA. But it's also a signal that the state of Georgia wanted it because the partnerships and the collaborations that we have across the state of Georgia, whether it's the Georgia Department of Economic Development Explore Georgia, or Sea Islands, or Augusta or Callaway Gardens, the industry has been, I guess, crying out for this. And they're showing that by how they're engaging our department. And that's exciting.
00:35:49.000 --> 00:36:05.530
Pretty incredible. Well, thank you for taking the time to join us today. We learned a lot and I thought I had a little bit of an inside scoop on the industry and I learned a million and two things today. Thank you so much for taking the time to tell us a little bit more about the program.
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Thanks for having me.
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Thank you.
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[music]
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Thanks for listening to Cultivating Curiosity, a podcast produced by the UGA College of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences. A special thanks to Mason McClintock for our music and sound effects. Find more episodes wherever you get your podcasts.
