Patriots and Partisans

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Welcome back to Beyond the Polls.
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This week, America celebrates its Independence Day, and I'll talk
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about what the polls say about American independence and American
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patriotism with Carlin Bowman.
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Let's dive in.
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Well, this is the weekend when the United States of
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America is going to be celebrating it's two hundred and
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forty ninth birthday. And thanks to modern medicine and our
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constitution and whatever else you want to ascribe to it,
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we remain healthy, although we might discuss how healthy. And
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talking about that how Americans feel about their country as
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we go through our current political travails and disputes. Is
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Carlin Bowman. She's a Senior Fellow America at the American
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Enterprise Institute and a columnist at Forbes. Carlin, welcome back
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to be on the Polls.
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I'm delighted to be with you again, Henry. I always
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enjoy these.
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And I enjoy these as well. I am particularly looking
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forward to hear daring your take on the survey that's
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been making all the news lately, and that's Gallops survey
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on how proud are you to be an American? And
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we find there's quite a difference between the members or
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adherents of the two political parties.
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Absolutely. I think polarization doesn't surprise us in any area anymore,
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but there certainly is extreme polarization on a question that
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Gallup has asked since two thousand and one. They ask
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whether you are extremely or very proud to be in America?
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And it's a four part question, and they've seen a
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decline and that in the responses to that question. It's
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fifty eight percent today, and just to give you a
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point of reference, it was eighty seven percent after nine
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to eleven and two thousand and one, So that's a
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pretty We've seen a pretty steady downward trajectory, and Gallup
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is reporting that this is a new low for them
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overall in terms of the general poll. And of course
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Democrats have a very different view. Only are thirty six
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percent of Democrats say that they're extremely or very proud
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to be Americans, fifty eight percent of Independence and ninety
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two percent of Republicans. So that is a partisan chasm.
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It's not the only poll that shows a partisan chasm.
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We also have had two other recent polls, one conducted
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by Fox News that asks a very different question but
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also shows these big partisan differences. Fox asks whether or
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not you're proud of the country, proud of the country
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or not, and they find in it's now fifty eight percent,
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not too different from what Gallup had found, But in
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twenty eleven that was sixty nine percent. So you've got
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again very sharp differences among Democrats and Republicans on that question.
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But what Fox saw in that poll, which was interesting
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that Gallup did not see, their trend is actually going
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up in terms of the percentage of Americans who say
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that they're proud. And then there was an earlier poll
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this year by The Economist and YUGA, and they asked
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a number of detailed questions, and they asked, how proud
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are you to be an American? Oh? Yeah, and a
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different question differ and warnings turns out to be very
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important here. And in response to that question earlier this year,
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seventy three percent overall said they were proud to be
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an American. Now that's a very different picture. And as
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a matter of fact, they asked that was a very
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extensive poll, more so than I've seen on patriotism in
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a long time. And nearly a third of people responding
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to that poll said that they were more patriotic than
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they were when they were growing up. So I think
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something happens with age. You become more patriotic as you
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get older. We find in many of these polls at
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the youngest age group is is often the one that
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says their least patriotic overall, but it may change, and
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I think we have had some evidence of that overall.
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Yeah.
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The judge that I click for, Senior Judge Danny boss Uggs,
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told me many decades ago about the attraction of libertarianism
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for young people that for young people, the state is
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the parent writ large. One of the things about the
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Gallup poll that struck me, and then I want to
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get back to the other pools you mentioned, is the
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Republican share is statistically not any different from two thousand
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and one. It's slightly higher, but factoring in survey size
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sample sizes, it's statistically identical, whereas the Democrats have been
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dropping for nearly twenty years. Yeah, is that it's maybe
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a low point now, but it's not like they were
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as proud of the United States during the Obama years
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and then it went off the cliff during the Trump years.
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It's been a steady downward mark for about twenty years.
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Any idea why that? And of course independence as usual
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in these polls split the difference between the parties, and
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presumably leaners who are Democrats look more like Democrats, and
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leaders who are Republican look more Republican. That's what we
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see every other survey. Why do you think you've got this?
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Republicans haven't changed even during the Obama years, whereas Democrats
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have been on a downward slide even during the Obama years.
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Well, first, I think patriotism may mean something a little
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bit different to Republicans than Democrats, and it's a different
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feeling for Democrats. But Democrats are generally a pretty dissatisfied lot.
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It doesn't seem to matter the administration. And it goes
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back now quite a way. Particularly interestingly Democratic women. They
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are one of the most pessimistic groups in the country.
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They have a greater sense of pessimism. We're still it's
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interesting though the questions differ on this point. We're still
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pretty forward looking and optimistic, but still Democrats always much
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less so than Republicans on those kinds of questions. So
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it's something to do with the general dissatisfaction, and that
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certainly now extends to patriotism.
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So the positive question of a poll of the three
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that you mentioned was the Economist you gov where seventy
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something percent. I forget the exact number. We're proud to
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be an American. Now, clearly that can only happen if
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there's a large number of people to take the two poles,
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although you can't exactly, but hypothetically taking the two poles,
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there must be a large number of people who say,
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I'm not proud of America, but I am proud to
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be American. How do you harmonize those sentiments?
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Well, I think one thing that I always learned in
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this having been in this business for as long as
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I've been in that question, wording makes an enormous difference,
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and I think an American, I think, conveys something very broad.
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It reminds us of so many things in the country,
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Whereas if you're asking about patriotism, all of a sudden,
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it's a code word of sorts. I think for some people,
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even though the trend has been steadily downward, I think
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that elites, many elites, have sort of told us that
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it's not it's not something we should be proud of
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in terms of being patriotic. So I think that may
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be contributing as well.
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And this gets to something else you've written. You know,
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President Obama got into a little bit of hot water
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in two thousand and nine when he said that America
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is a great country, and so is Britain and.
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So is Greece.
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He basically was interpreted by many people to equate America's
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greatness with that of any other developed democratic nation, And
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he then backtracked a little bit. What are the data
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say about that? The question of is America the fascination ever?
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Which if you walk into like a Maga gathering, if
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you don't say that, you're going to be excommunicated from
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the church. There's a change in those attitudes. It's over
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the last few years, and a difference in partisan and
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ideological agreement with how great this country is compared to
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other countries.
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In nineteen fifty five, when a similar question was asked
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after the end of World War II.
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That's when Eisenhower said everyone should go to church, and
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I don't care what church it is.
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I've forgotten about that, but yes, and that time Americans
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just said right out, we're the greatest country. Sort of
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a ball time in that Gallup question. Overall but now
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the posters usually ask a three part question. They ask
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whether this is the greatest country bar or none, or
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whether or not it's a great country, but you know so,
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or others, and then it isn't a great country at all.
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And the number, the percentage saying it isn't a great country,
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had been edging up, but it is still very, very
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low overall. So most people place themselves in the middle
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saying there are other great countries too. And I think
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there's been a misunderstanding of the meaning of American exceptionalism
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over time. It never really meant that we were better.
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It just meant that we were different, we were unique
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in so many ways, and that was the idea of
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American exceptionalism. And that's why I think people pushed back
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a little when Obama gave that interview to the Financial Times,
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and he actually, if you read the full report of
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what he said, he said, you know, I love my country.
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I think we've been doing great things in so many areas.
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But obviously the press seized on that part of the quote,
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and I think perhaps someone in fairly he was thought
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to be opposed to America's standing in a particular place
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in the world. But I'm not so sure that he was. Now, Michelle, I'm.
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Sorry, no, you want to Let's let's hey Michelle saying
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that if she doesn't go to these things, she's just
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engaging in self care. So let's talk about Michelle Obama.
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Yeah. Well, Michelle Obama is still pretty popular in some ways,
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but she's been so critical lately, and some people have
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even interpret some of what she said is being critical
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of her husband. I mean, she talked about the fact
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that she was glad that she didn't have a son. Now,
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maybe that meant many different things, that he would have
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to live up to everything his father had done, perhaps
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that he might have been worried about the police and
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black young men. I mean, who knows what the response was,
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but it certainly grated on many Americans because it sounded
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like she, I mean, she was just one of those
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Democratic women who's very dissatisfied.
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One of the things I noticed when I was looking
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at the most recent Pew typology, it should be triennial,
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but this time the three years coincided with the election,
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and they never do it in the election. So we
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should expect a new typology to come out soon, I hope.
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So.
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Yeah, but the most recent topology.
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Asked that question that asked the is America greater than
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all other countries?
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Is America a great country? But so are others?
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And the way they asked the final option was other
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countries are better.
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Than us and pretty much.
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And of course the typology divides you and I know
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this when I'm explaining this for my listeners who may
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not dive into all two hundred and fifty seven crosstab
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pages and all of that stuff. They divide the electorate
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into nine different groups, four of which lean right, four
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of which lean left. And the idea is to try
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get into the explaining why each party is a coalition
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and what the pressure the pressure points on each coalition are.
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And there's one that's always split down the middle. And
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of those nine groups, the most right wing group Faith
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and Flag Republicans the most. This would be the religious
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right within the Republican Party overwhelmingly answered it's the greatest
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country in the world, like sixty something percent. Almost nobody
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said another country was better than us. Among that group,
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the most left wing group was the group that was
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most likely to say other countries are as good as
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we are. And I'm wondering, first of all, what do
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you make of that from the Pew data from a
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few years ago, And do we see similar partisan differences
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in the other questions with respect to America as a
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great country or America is not a great country.
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Virtually all of the questions about America being a great
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country or not, no matter how you were them, you
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do see pretty strong partisan differences like the ones that
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you see in the Pew poll overall. But what's so
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interesting to me about that question and about the America
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again posters have asked a version of that question since
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nineteen fifty five, is that they focus. Posters tend to
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focus on bad news, on headlines, and they don't dig
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deeply like the economists you go pull from earlier this
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year did in trying to explore some of these issues
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in in a more thorough way in my opinion. But yes,
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the partisan differences are there on that question or how
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you worded, and there are subtle wording differences in several organizations.
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The Chicago Council asks that regularly, Pew asks that regularly,
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and a few others do.
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What about racial differences, I'm reminded during the during Floyd summer.
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I guess that's now the official way where we refer
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to twenty twenty, after the murder of George Floyd, Fox
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put out a poll that asked, is the American founders
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or the founders heroes or villains? And I'm doing this
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for memory, so anyone who have the data can please
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correct me. But it was like fifty seven percent or
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so say they're heroes, and somewhere in the teens say
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they're villains, and the rest say I'm not sure somewhere
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in between. What struck me on that pole, small sample
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size for what I'm about to say, but still struck me,
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was that the only group that said more villains and
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heroes were African Americans, and it was roughly split forty
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to forty. But it was still telling that, given the
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African American experience, and particularly given that this poll was
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taken a couple of months after the murder of George Floyd,
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that you had such a strong response. Do you see
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similar sorts of you know, maybe not that high level,
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but similar sort of resistance to saying America is a
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good place among non whites or particularly among African Americans.
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You certainly see it among African Americans, And I think
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the historical experience explains that. But interestingly, I've just gone
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back to a series of polls that Dan Yanklovich did
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in the late nineteen nineties, and he did an extraordinary
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poll of parents, Black parents, white parents, Hispanic paragon parents,
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and immigrant parents about things about America, what they wanted
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their children to learn in school, how they felt about
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the country, and absolutely astonishing responses. Blacks were consistently different
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on Black parents were in this case over Hispanic parents
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were really in many cases more optimistic than white parents
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in this poll about the country. Whether that still would
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still be true today, I'm trying to get it replicated
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by someone. And then immigrant parents were even more enthusiastic
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about America, what America, men to American pride, American greatness
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than were any of the other groups. And that was really,
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I thought, very striking to me. It means if you
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become an immigrant, if perhaps again the attitudes might be
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very different right now under the Trump policies overall, but
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at one point in our history, with blacks being different,
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that historical experience has colored their views of things such
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as patriotism, no question.
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About it, one of the things with respect to immigrants,
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and I wonder one of the things we find and
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most of these surveys, is that young people tend to
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be less patriotic, tend to be less effusive about saying
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America is above all other countries. They may not say
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in the Pew terminology that other countries are better, but
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they're much much less likely than older people to say
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America is the greatest country or now or ever. And
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of course that's the group that is likela is to
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have high proportions of immigrants or children of immigrants because
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of the age demographics of who came in the last
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twenty to thirty years and the native born population.
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What do you think about that?
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Is that we now have I believe the largest share
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of American residents who were born in another country. Ever,
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I think we have surpassed the previous high, which is
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nineteen ten.
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We're at least equal to that.
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And clearly that means that a huge number of people
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between eighteen and twenty nine, at least a quarter, if
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not more, would be people who either were not born
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in a orn't or who their parents their parents were
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not born in America. Do you think that has something
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to do with the numbers that we're seeing wom on
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young people or have.
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Is that just a spurious observation.
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I don't think it's a spurious observation, But I think ethnicity,
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racial upbringing might have less to do with it than
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the sort of steady stream that these younger generations, steady
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stream of negative news about America, that these younger people
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are exposed to. They're told that it's going to be
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harder for them to live the good life in America.
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They were told over and over again that so many
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are paying off college loans. You know, a good number
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of them obviously are whites born here, and that would
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affect the data too, But I think it's something else.
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I don't think it's those historical roots, though that may
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play a role, and that's a very interesting observation, But
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they've just been told that. You know, if you spend
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any time on social media at all, is they spend
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a lot of time on social media, you will see
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the sort of negativity that creeps through and what they're
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being told about this country. So it isn't surprising to
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me that when you're young, you're just not as you
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don't have as much of a stake in the country
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as you do when you get older, when you have
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a marriage, when you have a mortgage, when you have children.
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I think your attitude has change with all of those things,
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and I think that perhaps is the explanation when you're
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put loose and fancy free in your late in your
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late teens and early twenties, and perhaps now even into
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the nineteen thirties, since they seem to be delaying adulthood.
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I just think it's a different time of life without
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much of a stake in the society.
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That would be an interesting thing to see is whether
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or not. Ideally this would require a longitudinal study, but
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one could still take a look or try and do
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some estimates whether or not young people who are marrying
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and buying homes and settling down with children have different
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views than those who do not.
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I have a feeling they would, because we're seeing that
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in many other areas overall. But your point is well
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taken still as I think more about it, because after all,
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the most racially and ethnically diverse generation in American history,
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and that's certainly colored their views on many social issues,
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whether it's gay marriage, though we may see that finally
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flattening out at this point. But that's an interesting observation
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I'm going to think more about that.
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There was another poll that came out recently I wanted
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to ask you, and that was the Emerson Pole that
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was taken in mid June. They asked what Trump's election
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whether it had an effect on patriotism, And again you
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will find, as you might expect, a partisan difference, that
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two thirds of Republicans said it strengthened their sense of patriotism,
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whereas twenty five percent of Democrats that it weakened their
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sense of patriotism. What do you think this whole political
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dispute that's been going on now for well over, I
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would trace it back probably to the end of the
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Bush era as far as the increasing hyper polarization, but
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certainly threw into the Obama era, which has been as
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a spinal tap is being re released this weekend. It
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dialed up to eleven. Thank you, Nigel Tough. Now, what
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do you think about that? Do we see? Do we
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think that because of who Trump is, that how you
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feel the country ought to be gets reflected in his
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relative success or failure.
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Well by seeing I think has sort of exacerbated everything.
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I mean, he just goes to the f degree at
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least once a day, it seems so he's been fairly
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quiet recently. But in that sense, I think there is
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a Trump factor, and I think it just pushes the
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buttons of many Democrats and perhaps some young people and
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other groups. But I was still impressed by the Emerson
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poll that you had nearly forty percent of America's nograd
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that's mostly the mega and Republican base, saying that Trump
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had strengthened their feelings and patriotism. And then the next
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overall response was thirty four percent no effect, and then
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twenty seven percent weekend. So I still was a little
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bit surprised that the forty or the thirty nine percent
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was as high as it was. That he that's a
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strong It'd asked, if you strengthen, if it's strengthen your
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patriots and that. But again the data point that you cited,
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when the Pew typology of the mega folks again would
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support that that they're they're with this guy through hell
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and high water, and they will be going forward.
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I thought, while I did just note the partisan difference,
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it's less than a majority. I mean, you ask Democrats,
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you put the word Trump in of a policy, and
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the negative views come out immediately. But yet as much
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as you'll hear I'm worried about democracy, I'm worried about this.
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I'm worried about this.
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Over half of Democrats say it is either strengthen fifteen
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percent said its strengthened or had no effect on their patriotism.
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And that's a positive sign.
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It's a very positive sign. And again that was asked
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before the success of the American Pilot's Flying over go ran.
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So it's we're thinking about what all this means, but
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it's we need a deeper, deeper exploration here of patriotism,
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I think, and exactly what it means.
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No, I agree.
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I was actually when I asked you on the show,
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expecting that we would find more about it, and.
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We don't.
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Yeah, we don't. It's true of so many of the
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evergreen topics of posters just don't care much about them anymore.
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I mean, you know, they gallop more than others. And PEW,
399
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of course try to stick to some of the older trends,
400
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but Pew's changed it's methodology in so many ways, so
401
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they're not able to look at full trends any questions.
402
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So all you have left now is gallop and they
403
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have a different business model than they used to. But
404
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still they're continuing with a lot of questions like the
405
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one that they released has gotten so much attension.
406
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This week that firm has been galloping into the future
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for years now. Yes, yeah, yes, I am not shy
408
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to use dad jokes on the air. The Econ Yugov
409
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poll this week, though, had some interesting questions that were
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patriotically related. One of them asked do you own a
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United States Flag? And a large number of people do not,
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but a majority do. But what struck me among it
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is that there was a huge partisan gap, you know,
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like nearly half or more of Democrats and Harris voters
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do not own a flag. Ideology gap that liberals are
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much more likely not to own a fl flag than conservatives,
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who like have this super maturity who do. And of
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course the young don't own a flag. And that may
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be related to your observation of of stability. I know
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when I was young, I didn't own a flag. You know,
421
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I was moving from place to place in my rental.
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You know, where am I going to put a flag
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when I'm renting an apartment in a high rise. But
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and then they asked another question, which is does owning
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the flag signify patriotism, And there really wasn't much of
426
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a difference on that question, but the willingness to actually
427
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own a flag struck me as interesting.
428
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What do you make of something like that?
429
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Well, it's clearly a symbol of patriotism. And I'm always
430
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interested in how many we live in an area, Henry
431
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that's very has a lot of history and old town Alexandria,
432
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and the number of flags that come out on Independence
433
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Day on July fourth is really always interesting to me
434
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because they're put right away after that, put away right
435
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after that. But I think that there are many things
436
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military service, and again, posters are not asking a lot
437
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of questions like this is an act of patriotism. Charitable
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work tends to be an act of patriotism in many
439
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Americans' minds, and it's not surprising that something that's a
440
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symbol is a mark of patriotism. So and I'm not
441
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surprised by the differences. And I guess I have a
442
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perhaps a final question for you, Henry. With these partisan
443
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chasms gulfs on everything, I mean, what, I'm not sure
444
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polls are much value anymore if they're giving you just
445
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a partisan picture.
446
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Well, it just points to there's a glaring need I suspect,
447
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I think to try and dig deeper.
448
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What do you mean by this?
449
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Why do you come to that opinion? And that seems
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to be a question that pollsters either aren't curious about
451
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or don't think that, since so many of the polls
452
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that we get are driven by media client that they
453
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don't think the media clients are going to be interested
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in that sort of deep dive. You almost wish that
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there were some academic, curious professors who would want to say,
456
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I really want to know about this and get some
457
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you know, get some grant making foundation to give them
458
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million dollars to conduct the archetypal poll on America feelings
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about America in the age of Trumpet. You'd think that
460
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that would happen, but it hasn't yet.
461
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Has it happened?
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Well, I guess. As a final question, then one of
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the things that struck me is we are going to
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be celebrating our nation independence on July fourth, And of
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course the reason why we do that is because that's
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the traditional day when the declaration of independence was first
467
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read out. Of course, it wasn't passed on July fourth,
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as we know, But you know this has we officially
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became a nation when we declared to the world that
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we were a nation. But yet when the polster is
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an economist, you go ofv asked what is more important today?
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The Declaration or the Constitution? The Constitution one fifty eight
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to thirteen. What do you make of that?
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I think people think about the Constitution more often they
475
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hear about Supreme Court rulings affecting this provision or that
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provision of the Constitution. So I'm not sure I'd read
477
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too much into that question.
478
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That makes a lot of sense to me that Again,
479
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this gets to the wording thing is say, what's more
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important today? Well, what's more important today was, gee, the
481
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Supreme Court deciding whether this is constitutional or not not?
482
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What's more important to the sense of being American? Which
483
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is a completely different question.
484
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Absolutely, Americans don't know a great deal about their history,
485
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I must confess. In that poll of parents that I
486
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mentioned earlier, they asked whether you could tell your children,
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00:27:53.440 --> 00:27:55.759
you could give your children a reasonable sense of what
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00:27:55.839 --> 00:27:58.839
the Civil War was, what the Declaration of Independence was,
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00:27:58.920 --> 00:28:02.799
and what the Life Forth holiday meant, And most parents
490
00:28:02.839 --> 00:28:04.839
said they could give their kids a pretty good idea
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00:28:04.839 --> 00:28:07.160
of what the declaration meant. So that was a very
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00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:09.680
good sign. But ask them about the causes of the
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00:28:09.799 --> 00:28:13.200
Cold War, the causes of the Civil War. Most parents
494
00:28:13.240 --> 00:28:15.039
said they'd have to look it up. And that's how
495
00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:17.960
I think. Unfortunately, a lot of Americans treat our history.
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They learn it in school and then it sort of
497
00:28:20.359 --> 00:28:23.240
fades from memory. But if you're reminded of it with
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00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:27.440
Supreme Court decisions every day, then you think more probably
499
00:28:27.440 --> 00:28:28.359
about the Constitution.
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00:28:29.160 --> 00:28:29.359
Yeah.
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00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:33.640
One of the things I do is teach at college,
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00:28:33.880 --> 00:28:36.559
and I want to think. One of the classes I
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00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:40.240
teach has to do with the rhetoric of Franklin Roosevelt,
504
00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:42.880
and I try and get through to my students how
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00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:49.839
significantly Roosevelt changed americans perception of America. And over and
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00:28:50.039 --> 00:28:53.279
over again he's emphasizing the Bill of Rights as the
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00:28:53.400 --> 00:28:59.079
essential element of the Constitution, not the structural provisions. And
508
00:28:59.160 --> 00:29:01.279
I think if you were to ask most Americans about
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00:29:01.319 --> 00:29:04.039
the Constitution today, they would probably agree with Roosevelt. The
510
00:29:04.240 --> 00:29:07.440
Constitution is important because it gives us rights. And they
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00:29:07.480 --> 00:29:10.440
may not think very much or know very much about
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00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:13.759
Article one, Article two, Article three, and the three branches
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00:29:13.759 --> 00:29:17.359
of government, which was what the Constitution was the Bill
514
00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:19.960
of Rights, of course is added a few years afterwards.
515
00:29:20.640 --> 00:29:22.720
Absolutely, well, what are you.
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00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:25.119
Going to guess as a side, what are you going
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00:29:25.160 --> 00:29:28.119
to be doing to celebrate our nation's birthday.
518
00:29:28.720 --> 00:29:30.759
I'm going to put out my flag first thing in
519
00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:34.240
the morning and then relax for the day and perhaps barbecue.
520
00:29:34.960 --> 00:29:35.160
Yeah.
521
00:29:35.160 --> 00:29:39.200
Well, when I was up in Canada, I've been there
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00:29:39.200 --> 00:29:41.119
a couple of times that I was there on a
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00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:43.759
holiday I did not know existed until I happened to
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00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:47.559
run into it, which is Victoria Day, And boy did
525
00:29:47.640 --> 00:29:50.720
I see more Canadian flags than I had ever seen before.
526
00:29:50.799 --> 00:29:55.400
And I've been in Canada on Canada Day, which is
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00:29:55.559 --> 00:29:59.440
July first and is their official national day. But I
528
00:29:59.559 --> 00:30:03.480
had to under whether that had to do with President
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00:30:03.559 --> 00:30:10.079
Trump's statements about Canadians and Canada should become the fifty
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00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:13.480
first state that this Victoria Day, a lot of Canadians
531
00:30:13.559 --> 00:30:17.480
were going to say, I'm proud of the maple leaf flag.
532
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:20.960
Yes, indeed, Well many commentators have said that that they
533
00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:26.599
are all sorts of symbols of Canadian patriotism, Canadian nationalism
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00:30:27.039 --> 00:30:29.240
that they just hadn't seen five or ten years ago.
535
00:30:29.400 --> 00:30:31.400
So yes, I think there is a Trump effect here
536
00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:31.839
as well.
537
00:30:32.440 --> 00:30:36.119
Yeah, well okay, so then my peregrinations on Prince Edward
538
00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:41.240
Island on Victoria Day weekend were not unique, they were indicative. Well, Carlin,
539
00:30:41.359 --> 00:30:44.359
it is always a pleasure to have you on. And
540
00:30:44.720 --> 00:30:46.400
where can my listeners follow your work?
541
00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:48.960
We can look at Forbes dot com, where I write
542
00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:53.319
a weekly column, or at the AI website www dot
543
00:30:53.400 --> 00:30:56.519
ai dot org where they post my work.
544
00:30:57.240 --> 00:31:04.039
Well, I am happy to virtually celebrate the holiday by
545
00:31:04.119 --> 00:31:06.880
talking about patriotism with you, and I look forward to
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00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:10.680
having you back on this All American broadcast of Beyond
547
00:31:10.680 --> 00:31:11.160
the Ponets.
548
00:31:11.559 --> 00:31:13.839
I look forward to coming back. Thank you so much, Henry,
549
00:31:13.880 --> 00:31:14.519
and happy.
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00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:17.920
Forth to Happy forth to you. That's it for this week.
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00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:20.880
Join me next week as I talk about progressivism and
552
00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:23.920
the Democratic Party with the editor of the New Republic.
553
00:31:23.839 --> 00:31:24.799
Michael Tamawski.
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00:31:25.319 --> 00:31:28.519
Until then, let's reach for the stars together as we
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00:31:28.720 --> 00:31:31.000
journey beyond the Folds.