WEBVTT
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00:00:02.129 --> 00:00:06.230
Welcome, everyone. On January 16th, 2023, one of Italy's most
2
00:00:06.330 --> 00:00:10.669
wanted fugitives walked into a private medical clinic in Palermo, Sicily.
3
00:00:11.429 --> 00:00:15.630
Matteo Messina Denaro had been a fugitive for approximately 30 years.
4
00:00:16.250 --> 00:00:18.800
Investigators linked the Cosa Nostra boss to some of the
5
00:00:18.820 --> 00:00:23.019
mafia's most notorious crimes, and an enormous law enforcement effort
6
00:00:23.640 --> 00:00:28.280
spent decades dismantling the network. That morning, Nicola Binetti from
7
00:00:28.300 --> 00:00:37.049
the R.O.S., Special operations, specialized investigative organization heavily involved in
8
00:00:37.130 --> 00:00:40.979
combating organized crime closed in on De Niro. He was
9
00:00:41.020 --> 00:00:43.420
arrested near the clinic, but the hunt for him illustrates
10
00:00:43.460 --> 00:00:48.079
something outsiders often find confusing about Italy. Who exactly are
11
00:00:48.119 --> 00:00:52.090
the police? Because the answer might be which police? Who
12
00:00:52.119 --> 00:00:55.549
polices it? Start with the Polizia d'Estat or State Police.
13
00:00:56.109 --> 00:00:59.250
This is a civilian national police force under Italy's Ministry
14
00:00:59.270 --> 00:01:03.810
of the Interior. It performs familiar policing functions, criminal investigation,
15
00:01:03.869 --> 00:01:09.069
public order, immigration, and includes specialized branches dealing with highways, railways, cybercrime.
16
00:01:09.730 --> 00:01:14.670
Then there are the Carabinieri. The Carabinieri can perform ordinary
17
00:01:14.730 --> 00:01:17.349
policing duties that may look remarkably similar to those of
18
00:01:17.390 --> 00:01:21.709
a state police officer, but institutionally they're different. They're both
19
00:01:21.769 --> 00:01:24.810
an armed force and a national force with general policing authority.
20
00:01:25.489 --> 00:01:28.489
For military functions, they fall within the defense structure. For
21
00:01:28.549 --> 00:01:32.719
public security functions, they operate within Italy's policing system. They
22
00:01:32.750 --> 00:01:37.299
also perform Italy's military police functions. Then comes the Guardia
23
00:01:37.340 --> 00:01:41.340
di Finanza. Its uniforms and military structure can make it
24
00:01:41.359 --> 00:01:44.969
look like another version of the Cabo Mariani. It isn't, though.
25
00:01:45.200 --> 00:01:48.209
The Guardia di Finanza is a military police force reporting
26
00:01:48.250 --> 00:01:52.870
to the Minister of Economy and Finance, specializing particularly in
27
00:01:52.950 --> 00:01:56.239
economic and financial crime, like tax fraud or money laundering.
28
00:01:57.159 --> 00:02:01.500
If investigators wanted to know not merely who committed the crime,
29
00:02:01.519 --> 00:02:03.920
but where the money went, then the Guardia di Finanza
30
00:02:04.659 --> 00:02:07.829
is the way to go. There's also the Polizia Penitenziaria,
31
00:02:07.969 --> 00:02:13.250
responsible for Italy's prison and correctional environment. Now, municipalities have
32
00:02:13.289 --> 00:02:17.389
local police organizations dealing with responsibilities assigned under national and
33
00:02:17.449 --> 00:02:21.509
regional law. so Italy hasn't simply duplicated the same police
34
00:02:21.530 --> 00:02:25.949
department several times. It has divided policing responsibilities among organizations
35
00:02:25.990 --> 00:02:30.759
with different histories. The Denaro investigation demonstrates why the boundaries
36
00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:34.060
can sometimes blur. The final operation leading to its capture
37
00:02:34.099 --> 00:02:40.599
was conducted by the Carabinieri R.O.S. under judicial direction, but
38
00:02:40.639 --> 00:02:43.580
the 30-year pursuit of Denaro's network was much larger than
39
00:02:43.659 --> 00:02:47.710
one operation. Earlier investigations by both the Polizia di Stato
40
00:02:47.750 --> 00:02:52.069
and Carabinieri targeted his associates and communication network. An organized
41
00:02:52.110 --> 00:02:55.810
crime creates another problem. Arresting a mafia member does not
42
00:02:55.870 --> 00:02:59.460
necessarily dismantle the organization. It's kind of like a hydra.
43
00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:04.560
Cut off one head, it grows another. Investigators must identify businesses, property,
44
00:03:04.639 --> 00:03:10.550
financial intermediaries. That brings financial investigators into the picture. In 2026,
45
00:03:10.550 --> 00:03:14.389
for example, the Guardia de Finanza announced a major investigation
46
00:03:14.430 --> 00:03:19.360
into an alleged international money laundering network connected to Drug
47
00:03:19.379 --> 00:03:24.180
trafficking associated with Denaro. Authorities seized assets valued at 200
48
00:03:24.180 --> 00:03:29.819
million euros. A different investigation, different specialization, same criminal ecosystem.
49
00:03:30.560 --> 00:03:34.110
Italy also created an organization specifically designed to bring expertise
50
00:03:34.129 --> 00:03:39.449
from these forces together. The Direzione Investigativa Antimafia, or the DIA,
51
00:03:39.469 --> 00:03:44.590
which is an interagency antimafia investigative body, staffed by specialists
52
00:03:44.610 --> 00:03:47.930
drawn principally from the Polizia d'Estatto, the State Police, the Carabinieri,
53
00:03:48.569 --> 00:03:51.789
and the Guardia di Franza. That organizational design tells you
54
00:03:51.849 --> 00:03:56.759
something important about Italian policing. Overlap is not necessarily an accident.
55
00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:01.139
What about the criminal side? Well, organized crime helps explain
56
00:04:01.159 --> 00:04:04.740
why specialization matters. A sophisticated mafia organization with a lot
57
00:04:04.780 --> 00:04:07.900
of money isn't merely a collection of criminals. It can
58
00:04:07.939 --> 00:04:13.110
involve extortion, drug trafficking, legitimate businesses, political relationships, a host
59
00:04:13.150 --> 00:04:17.519
of things. One investigation might therefore require surveillance specialists. Another,
60
00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:22.139
financial investigators. Another might require investigators who understand mafia structures.
61
00:04:22.939 --> 00:04:27.660
And prosecutors can coordinate judicial investigations involving personnel from different forces.
62
00:04:28.480 --> 00:04:31.420
Instead of imagining Italy as several police departments competing to
63
00:04:31.459 --> 00:04:35.579
answer the same call, imagine several overlapping investigative systems that
64
00:04:35.600 --> 00:04:39.500
can be concentrated on different dimensions. That is very different
65
00:04:39.540 --> 00:04:43.100
from the American model, the U.S. fragments policing largely by jurisdiction,
66
00:04:43.199 --> 00:04:47.750
municipal police, city police, county sheriffs, state agencies, and federal agencies.
67
00:04:48.410 --> 00:04:51.500
Italy's system includes territorial organization too, but some of its
68
00:04:51.540 --> 00:04:56.100
more important divisions also reflect function and institutional history instead.
69
00:04:58.019 --> 00:05:00.980
The Hanford Denaro required investigators to find a man, but
70
00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:03.839
the larger battle against the organization around him required something
71
00:05:03.879 --> 00:05:07.829
much harder, finding the network and following the money. Understanding
72
00:05:07.850 --> 00:05:11.550
how multiple pieces of a criminal organization fit together is very,
73
00:05:11.850 --> 00:05:12.689
very important.
1
00:00:02.129 --> 00:00:06.230
Welcome, everyone. On January 16th, 2023, one of Italy's most
2
00:00:06.330 --> 00:00:10.669
wanted fugitives walked into a private medical clinic in Palermo, Sicily.
3
00:00:11.429 --> 00:00:15.630
Matteo Messina Denaro had been a fugitive for approximately 30 years.
4
00:00:16.250 --> 00:00:18.800
Investigators linked the Cosa Nostra boss to some of the
5
00:00:18.820 --> 00:00:23.019
mafia's most notorious crimes, and an enormous law enforcement effort
6
00:00:23.640 --> 00:00:28.280
spent decades dismantling the network. That morning, Nicola Binetti from
7
00:00:28.300 --> 00:00:37.049
the R.O.S., Special operations, specialized investigative organization heavily involved in
8
00:00:37.130 --> 00:00:40.979
combating organized crime closed in on De Niro. He was
9
00:00:41.020 --> 00:00:43.420
arrested near the clinic, but the hunt for him illustrates
10
00:00:43.460 --> 00:00:48.079
something outsiders often find confusing about Italy. Who exactly are
11
00:00:48.119 --> 00:00:52.090
the police? Because the answer might be which police? Who
12
00:00:52.119 --> 00:00:55.549
polices it? Start with the Polizia d'Estat or State Police.
13
00:00:56.109 --> 00:00:59.250
This is a civilian national police force under Italy's Ministry
14
00:00:59.270 --> 00:01:03.810
of the Interior. It performs familiar policing functions, criminal investigation,
15
00:01:03.869 --> 00:01:09.069
public order, immigration, and includes specialized branches dealing with highways, railways, cybercrime.
16
00:01:09.730 --> 00:01:14.670
Then there are the Carabinieri. The Carabinieri can perform ordinary
17
00:01:14.730 --> 00:01:17.349
policing duties that may look remarkably similar to those of
18
00:01:17.390 --> 00:01:21.709
a state police officer, but institutionally they're different. They're both
19
00:01:21.769 --> 00:01:24.810
an armed force and a national force with general policing authority.
20
00:01:25.489 --> 00:01:28.489
For military functions, they fall within the defense structure. For
21
00:01:28.549 --> 00:01:32.719
public security functions, they operate within Italy's policing system. They
22
00:01:32.750 --> 00:01:37.299
also perform Italy's military police functions. Then comes the Guardia
23
00:01:37.340 --> 00:01:41.340
di Finanza. Its uniforms and military structure can make it
24
00:01:41.359 --> 00:01:44.969
look like another version of the Cabo Mariani. It isn't, though.
25
00:01:45.200 --> 00:01:48.209
The Guardia di Finanza is a military police force reporting
26
00:01:48.250 --> 00:01:52.870
to the Minister of Economy and Finance, specializing particularly in
27
00:01:52.950 --> 00:01:56.239
economic and financial crime, like tax fraud or money laundering.
28
00:01:57.159 --> 00:02:01.500
If investigators wanted to know not merely who committed the crime,
29
00:02:01.519 --> 00:02:03.920
but where the money went, then the Guardia di Finanza
30
00:02:04.659 --> 00:02:07.829
is the way to go. There's also the Polizia Penitenziaria,
31
00:02:07.969 --> 00:02:13.250
responsible for Italy's prison and correctional environment. Now, municipalities have
32
00:02:13.289 --> 00:02:17.389
local police organizations dealing with responsibilities assigned under national and
33
00:02:17.449 --> 00:02:21.509
regional law. so Italy hasn't simply duplicated the same police
34
00:02:21.530 --> 00:02:25.949
department several times. It has divided policing responsibilities among organizations
35
00:02:25.990 --> 00:02:30.759
with different histories. The Denaro investigation demonstrates why the boundaries
36
00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:34.060
can sometimes blur. The final operation leading to its capture
37
00:02:34.099 --> 00:02:40.599
was conducted by the Carabinieri R.O.S. under judicial direction, but
38
00:02:40.639 --> 00:02:43.580
the 30-year pursuit of Denaro's network was much larger than
39
00:02:43.659 --> 00:02:47.710
one operation. Earlier investigations by both the Polizia di Stato
40
00:02:47.750 --> 00:02:52.069
and Carabinieri targeted his associates and communication network. An organized
41
00:02:52.110 --> 00:02:55.810
crime creates another problem. Arresting a mafia member does not
42
00:02:55.870 --> 00:02:59.460
necessarily dismantle the organization. It's kind of like a hydra.
43
00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:04.560
Cut off one head, it grows another. Investigators must identify businesses, property,
44
00:03:04.639 --> 00:03:10.550
financial intermediaries. That brings financial investigators into the picture. In 2026,
45
00:03:10.550 --> 00:03:14.389
for example, the Guardia de Finanza announced a major investigation
46
00:03:14.430 --> 00:03:19.360
into an alleged international money laundering network connected to Drug
47
00:03:19.379 --> 00:03:24.180
trafficking associated with Denaro. Authorities seized assets valued at 200
48
00:03:24.180 --> 00:03:29.819
million euros. A different investigation, different specialization, same criminal ecosystem.
49
00:03:30.560 --> 00:03:34.110
Italy also created an organization specifically designed to bring expertise
50
00:03:34.129 --> 00:03:39.449
from these forces together. The Direzione Investigativa Antimafia, or the DIA,
51
00:03:39.469 --> 00:03:44.590
which is an interagency antimafia investigative body, staffed by specialists
52
00:03:44.610 --> 00:03:47.930
drawn principally from the Polizia d'Estatto, the State Police, the Carabinieri,
53
00:03:48.569 --> 00:03:51.789
and the Guardia di Franza. That organizational design tells you
54
00:03:51.849 --> 00:03:56.759
something important about Italian policing. Overlap is not necessarily an accident.
55
00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:01.139
What about the criminal side? Well, organized crime helps explain
56
00:04:01.159 --> 00:04:04.740
why specialization matters. A sophisticated mafia organization with a lot
57
00:04:04.780 --> 00:04:07.900
of money isn't merely a collection of criminals. It can
58
00:04:07.939 --> 00:04:13.110
involve extortion, drug trafficking, legitimate businesses, political relationships, a host
59
00:04:13.150 --> 00:04:17.519
of things. One investigation might therefore require surveillance specialists. Another,
60
00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:22.139
financial investigators. Another might require investigators who understand mafia structures.
61
00:04:22.939 --> 00:04:27.660
And prosecutors can coordinate judicial investigations involving personnel from different forces.
62
00:04:28.480 --> 00:04:31.420
Instead of imagining Italy as several police departments competing to
63
00:04:31.459 --> 00:04:35.579
answer the same call, imagine several overlapping investigative systems that
64
00:04:35.600 --> 00:04:39.500
can be concentrated on different dimensions. That is very different
65
00:04:39.540 --> 00:04:43.100
from the American model, the U.S. fragments policing largely by jurisdiction,
66
00:04:43.199 --> 00:04:47.750
municipal police, city police, county sheriffs, state agencies, and federal agencies.
67
00:04:48.410 --> 00:04:51.500
Italy's system includes territorial organization too, but some of its
68
00:04:51.540 --> 00:04:56.100
more important divisions also reflect function and institutional history instead.
69
00:04:58.019 --> 00:05:00.980
The Hanford Denaro required investigators to find a man, but
70
00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:03.839
the larger battle against the organization around him required something
71
00:05:03.879 --> 00:05:07.829
much harder, finding the network and following the money. Understanding
72
00:05:07.850 --> 00:05:11.550
how multiple pieces of a criminal organization fit together is very,
73
00:05:11.850 --> 00:05:12.689
very important.
