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Hi, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the 97 UX things podcast. Dan Berlin here, your host and book editor. I'm joined this week by Margot Bloomstein, who you may know from the book Content Strategy at Work; Real World Stories to Strengthen Every Interactive Project from 2012.
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She most recently wrote Trustworthy; How the Smartest Brands Beat Cynicism and Bridge the Trust Gap. This week on the podcast, she'll be chatting with us about design and content strategy for trust. Welcome, Margo.
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Thanks so much. I'm thrilled to be here.
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Thrilled to have you here. Can you please tell us a little bit about yourself?
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Sure. So, I was born at a very young age.
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Then, came into into UX and content strategy shortly afterwards. So as you said, I'm the author of both of those books. I think they represent my pathway through content strategy over the past 20 plus years. I started working in the industry in 2000, right around the Dot-com Boom and Dot-com Bust.
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Broke into it through design content strategy - that was more or less glorified copywriting at that time - in large agency consulting at Sapient. And kind of really cut my teeth there, I learned so much there. We weren't really talking about user experience yet. We were just on the cusp, I think, of talking about experience design.
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But still largely focused on information architecture. Then through that pathway, had the opportunity to work with a lot of different types of clients - a lot of different organizations and teams. Then, moved into freelancing for a couple of years. Was in-house for about a year. Then, joined a couple of different consultancies - more midsize, small-to-midsized agencies to help launch their content strategy practices, and figure out what are the components of content strategy?
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How does it fit with design and information architecture? Then, in the burgeoning practice of experience design and user experience design. What do we do with that pendulum? From moving from the idea that we had so much brochure were on the web.
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And so many sites really reflected the needs, communication goals, and informational values of different organizations? And in the clients that we work with?
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How do we drag that pendulum over the other direction - to also meet with the needs of the users of those sites? How do we understand those users, and start to develop personas for them? Over the my first 10 years working on the web, that was really my focus. Then, I've been out on my own. I launched Appropriate, Inc. in 2010. And had been working in that capacity, focusing on branch-driven content strategy.
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Since then, working with a nice variety of clients teaching in the industry, teaching a lot of workshops in the industry. Then most recently, came together with a few other practitioners to form loop collective, where we're working on larger engagements that focus on design systems and the publishing culture around them. So, that's been kind of my trajectory.
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That sounds like a fun trajectory. Tell us a little bit about implementing content strategy in the organization. In short, I know that a lot of our listeners may be struggling with- as you said, the content representing what the business needs. Not so much on what the users need, the customers need.
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How do we help move that pendulum to the other direction?
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It's always a conversation about empathy and understanding. We fling those terms around so much, and I kind of roll my eyes using them. But even if we don't use those words, even if we're not talking with our clients about what empathy means to them - that is the mindset that we have to bring to it. To say that if you want effective communication - you need to understand where your user is, where your user is coming from, that audience that you're hoping to reach. You need to meet them where they are. To help them grow, and to help them go to where you want them to be.
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Whether it's to learn more about your product. So that they can become maybe a more confident consumer, and make a decision with a product. Or maybe understand more about the service you provide, or what self service is like in your organization. So that they can make better decisions about...
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Maybe it's their own healthcare, or their own personal financial management. Whenever we're trying to engage with the other, whenever we're trying to engage with someone else - it has to be about understanding where they are. The jargon that they use.
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The mindset that they're bringing to the problem. The stress in their life. The problem that matters most to them. We have to understand that if we hope to help them meet that problem and fix that problem. I think that's a conversation that requires a lot of empathy. I think that's what we operationalize, when we start budgeting for user research. Or when we start doing the work of understanding the language that our target audience uses...
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When we're analyzing, maybe, customer service logs or looking at search entries to see the kind of vocabulary they're bringing to it. That comes from a place of empathy and consideration of saying, "I don't necessarily relate to you.
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I don't need to be in your shoes, though, to still respect you enough to care about you.
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And to care about the concerns, language, and needs that you have." Yeah. So, I think that's how we can bring the right mindset into this work - to help people care about their audiences. Once you start caring about somebody else, then you can start to prioritize their needs. That's a great point.
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I love the point you made about understanding their vocabulary and their jargon. We get often get caught up in our own business vocabulary and jargon. Your suggestion of looking at search logs to find out how people are using words... is really interesting.
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So thank you for that.
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Yeah, well. I think a lot of what I was focusing on in writing Trustworthy... is about establishing rapport with your audience. So that you can kind of open up that rhetorical arena, or even playing field if you want to call it that. To say, my needs as the brand...
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don't have to be the same as your needs as the audience. But we have to value them equally if we want to be able to engage in commerce or meet the same goal.
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If I want you to vote for the politician that I'm supporting.
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First, I have to care about your needs from public policy. It's like that thing, where we have to establish that rapport. I think the way organizations build trust - to use that example of working with the same vocabulary, and understanding what that vocabulary is. One of the ways that organizations builds trust is... By meeting their audiences where they are.
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Not forcing them, necessarily, to learn new jargon. Or to try to get up to speed with it quickly. But also not dumbing things down, but helping their audiences, instead, to smarten up. Like one of my favorite examples of that in the book is from the NHS. I spoke with a with a few members of the UX team there. I think Sara Wilcox shared with me how they're always in the position of meeting the needs of content creators - some of whom are physicians and clinicians that have very technical backgrounds, that are trying to communicate with audiences of lay people.
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Like people that are just like,"I have this health issue, what do I do about it? What should I expect? Is this a big deal or not?" And people are coming to that kind of web experience with probably a lot of stress and concern. They don't want anybody to talk down to them. But at the same time, if you're meeting somebody in that point of acute stress, and saying, "Okay. You need to learn a whole new language, and guess what it's going to be in passive voice." Problem. So, she talked about how they break things down for their audiences. Again, not to dumb things down, but to help them smarten up. So if you're maybe dealing with some sort of gastrointestinal issue, and you're like, "I don't know if this is an appendix. Or if I've got something that's about to rupture. Or maybe I should have just made other choices at dinner last night." They're saying, "All right, you're going to be meeting with a clinician about these issues. They're going to ask about things like pee and poo - because that's the vernacular, that's what people say." Then, they'll go on to say, "They may also use terms, like asking about defecation." So, they're meeting people where they are in the vernacular. Then, introducing other vocabulary that reflects more of the background of their practitioners and bringing people along that path. I think that is so important to drag the pendulum, as you were asking many minutes ago. To drag the pendulum back; from just focusing on the needs of content creators, or the brands that are sponsoring that content - that brand that cares about the content. Bring it back, not all the way to the needs of the user. But to meet the user halfway, and bring things back to the middle. That's really the work that we can do to best represent the needs of both sides of that rhetorical arena.
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That's super interesting. It's almost introducing folks - as you said, meeting them where they are giving them that intro... To help them along, up that ramp, to the next step. So that you can really inform them.
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Yeah. So, because I think everybody wants to become smarter - that's one of those things that drives and motivates so many of our interests as humans. We all want to become a little bit more knowledgeable about the stuff that matters to us. It's just not "everything matters equally to everyone". And that's okay.
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But we do bring different types of expertise, some of which is in the form of lived experience, to this work. By meeting people where they are, and then helping them to become more knowledgeable about their own health conditions... Well, turns out that they can be more involved patients than in their own care. Or by meeting people where they are, and helping them to better understand how to manage their own finances. Turns out that they can do a better job of that, than when they understand the vocabulary and systems better. Or by meeting people where they are and helping them understand more about the domain of home audio equipment - well, it turns out, then they're going to have a lower rate of product returns when they're shopping for it.
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Because they're shopping with that much more confidence. When we can create confidence, that's when we can foster trust.
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Create confidence to foster trust, I love that. How else can companies foster that trust? You mentioned meeting them where they are, to start that education process? But then, what's that next step?
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I don't know if it's the next steps, so much as another another leg in the stool or pillar of the framework. But I talk a lot in the book - about voice, volume, and vulnerability is like those three key pillars. I think another part of engaging with an audience with respect to help grow their confidence. Their own self-confidence in their knowledge is... By speaking to them in a consistent voice. When businesses can do that, both visually and verbally, offering consistency - it lowers the education load on someone. Then, they know the system with which they're interacting. They understand the brand with which they're interacting. When they're not having to think like, "Wait a second. Am I on the same page still? Is this still part of the same site?
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Because the buttons are still in the same place there." Things look and sound as they expect. I think offering that kind of consistency helps a lot. Then, also offering people the right volume of information, as far as the level of detail - the length to which we're willing to go to educate them. I think that helps build their confidence too.
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Because in some cases, people need more information to be able to make good decisions - and feel good about the decisions they make. In other cases, businesses need to simplify things. Not make them simplistic- again, not to dumb things down. But they need to extract the... Get rid of the extraneous stuff that's just cluttering up an experience, so that people can focus. I think it's that focus and consistency. Those are two big keys to helping people build their confidence in a system, feel successful within that system. In its success, that helps build their confidence.
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The consistency is what helps build expectations, right? When we have expectations set properly, then people have good experiences, right? My question for you there is... How does a large enterprise wrangle themselves in terms of being consistent in that voice, across different properties or across designs?
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I think one of the best things an organization can do for its audiences is... To acknowledge its silos and start tearing them down. Like silos are for grain - not for people, not for ideas, and certainly not for budgets Right. And plus, as to overall operational efficiency.
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either. When your audience is interacting with your organization, they're not aware of your org chart. They shouldn't have to care about an org chart. But when they get very bifurcated experiences, or different experiences, depending on the vertical with which they're engaging... I mean, it's like 20-25 years ago back in a mall, when we used to go to those places... You're trying to make a product return only to here. Like, "Oh, you bought this off of from our catalog." Or I don't know. If we said, "From our website at that point. But you bought it from our catalog.
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Well, you can't return it in store." And everyone's answer should have always been, "Why not?" Right? Why should I care about how you organize your business? I'm just trying to get a shirt and the color that I liked. I think your organization's problems should not become your audience's problems. But that's exactly what happens when you don't fix the problem of siloed information. It turns out...
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When you have systems that span, that cross your silos, so that people can exchange information more easily across them - it's better for content creators.
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Because their work can be that much more efficient, budget friendly, and cost effective. I guess. It's also better for your users, because they don't have to care which branch of the organization am I engaging right now. I'm always going to see a consistent policy, a consistent look and feel. I think that's where we can start to see the benefit of design systems that are kind of "One Ring to rule them all". When a design system stands the different silos in an organization, it allows all of the designers in that organization - all of the content creators, content designers, copywriters, marketers within that organization - know that, well, they don't have to reinvent the wheel every time. They can save their creativity for the really juicy problems. Not things around like button, nomenclature, and placement, or shape.
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Right.
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So, was there anything else that you're hoping to convey here today about designing for trust?
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I think beyond just... Well, it's bigger than designing for trust.
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Although I do think that trust is the biggest, thorniest problem facing designers right now. Because I think we're in a tough place in our society - what with the pandemic, what's going on with the economy, the changes that we've seen in in our political system... I'm talking primarily in the US, but also beyond the US. Over the past decade, we've seen so many reasons to be cynical. Because so many of the institutions that we thought were immobile and fixed, and people have figured it out. We've seen so many of those institutions change rapidly, and not always for good. So, people have become cynical. When people become cynical, they fail to trust the sources of information around them. They fail to trust their own instincts as well. I think that's a problem for any designer that works in an organization that is hoping to sell a product, persuade an audience, educate an audience, get them to act in a different way. Whether you're in the public sector, or private sector, nonprofit - it doesn't matter. We're in the business of helping people and helping organizations better communicate with each other. When people are cynical, that communication slows down. We've seen sales cycles take longer, and a lot of marketing messages just fall flat now. If we're in the business of confronting that cynicism, that's a powerful place to be. Because I think designers look at the world and say, "This is not enough. Things can be better." I think cynics look at the world when it's bad, look around and say, "It's worse." Designers look at the world and say, "Well, it can be better." I think if we're in that mindset of saying, "We can improve things, change is possible." Then, we need to look for other inputs, influences, and sources of inspiration.
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Because if we just look at what kind of work we're all doing, if we just look around at what we've been doing so far - we're just going to keep repeating the same mistakes. I think it's time to look outward. I think my big piece of guidance for designers would be to say, "Step away from the computer, go to a museum." That's where I find my biggest sources of information and inspiration. I think looking at how exhibit designers and museum curators take existing knowledge, existing examples of work, and bring them together to create new meaning. Then, guide an audience - maybe through an exhibit to say, "Here's this new point that we're making based on the work of this artist, or based on this collection of objects. Here's something new that we can learn for it." That to me is such a pure and instructive kind of user experience design. I think that we can all learn a lot from that.
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Definitely. We always learn so much when we examine design cultures that are different than our own. We're often...Folks listening here are probably doing lots of design for digital. But to your point, you go and see how museums do it, or an aquarium for that matter, other design domains.
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You can learn so much about how they approach things. Then, go apply that to your own work.
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Yeah. I mean, I think just the effort of all the things that we've been discussing today around meeting your audience where they are...
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A museum does that by breaking down complex vocabulary, teaching about different time periods, different art movements, offering definitions screens right there on the wall when you first walk into an exhibit. So that you can, then, take that knowledge through the subsequent rooms in the exhibit.
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And look at things in a more educated way. Breaking down vocabulary in that way is not a very complex thing. It doesn't have to be hard to meet your audience where they are. Or if you're engaging a moving audience that comprises both adults and children, you'll see text screens on the wall at different heights. Also, maybe at different levels of vocabulary. Maybe posing things in questions in different ways, again, to meet an audience where they are. So that everyone can take something meaningful from the experience. I think then when we look at how they juxtapose different objects or different pieces of art, so that you can take new meaning from them. We can take that kind of thinking and that sort of approach into our own work; to realize that sometimes it's not through the act of definition, or how we execute on a topic that creates new meaning.
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Sometimes, it's taking content and bringing it together in new ways that allows your audience to create new meaning in themselves and of themselves.
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Create new meaning.
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Help our users create new meaning for themselves. That's a wonderful takeaway. So Margo, thank you so much for joining the podcast today. Gave us a lot of great takeaways to help build trust in our design. So, thank you for joining me here today.
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Thank you very much. This was a lot of fun.
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My guest today has been Margo Blumstein, who wrote the books Content Strategy at Work; Real World Stories to Strengthen Every Interactive Project and most recently Trustworthy; How the Smartest Brands Beat Cynicism and Bridge the Trust Gap. Thanks for listening, everyone. You've been listening to the 97 UX things podcasts, a companion to the book 97 Things Every UX practitioner should know - published by O'Reilly and available at your local bookshop. All book royalties go to UX nonprofits, as well any funds raised by this podcast.
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The theme music is "Moisturize the Situation" by Consider the Source. I'm your host and book editor, Dan Berlin. Please remember to find the needs in your community, and fill them with your best work. Thanks for listening
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Hi, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the 97 UX things podcast. Dan Berlin here, your host and book editor. I'm joined this week by Margot Bloomstein, who you may know from the book Content Strategy at Work; Real World Stories to Strengthen Every Interactive Project from 2012.
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She most recently wrote Trustworthy; How the Smartest Brands Beat Cynicism and Bridge the Trust Gap. This week on the podcast, she'll be chatting with us about design and content strategy for trust. Welcome, Margo.
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Thanks so much. I'm thrilled to be here.
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Thrilled to have you here. Can you please tell us a little bit about yourself?
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Sure. So, I was born at a very young age.
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Then, came into into UX and content strategy shortly afterwards. So as you said, I'm the author of both of those books. I think they represent my pathway through content strategy over the past 20 plus years. I started working in the industry in 2000, right around the Dot-com Boom and Dot-com Bust.
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Broke into it through design content strategy - that was more or less glorified copywriting at that time - in large agency consulting at Sapient. And kind of really cut my teeth there, I learned so much there. We weren't really talking about user experience yet. We were just on the cusp, I think, of talking about experience design.
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But still largely focused on information architecture. Then through that pathway, had the opportunity to work with a lot of different types of clients - a lot of different organizations and teams. Then, moved into freelancing for a couple of years. Was in-house for about a year. Then, joined a couple of different consultancies - more midsize, small-to-midsized agencies to help launch their content strategy practices, and figure out what are the components of content strategy?
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How does it fit with design and information architecture? Then, in the burgeoning practice of experience design and user experience design. What do we do with that pendulum? From moving from the idea that we had so much brochure were on the web.
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And so many sites really reflected the needs, communication goals, and informational values of different organizations? And in the clients that we work with?
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How do we drag that pendulum over the other direction - to also meet with the needs of the users of those sites? How do we understand those users, and start to develop personas for them? Over the my first 10 years working on the web, that was really my focus. Then, I've been out on my own. I launched Appropriate, Inc. in 2010. And had been working in that capacity, focusing on branch-driven content strategy.
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Since then, working with a nice variety of clients teaching in the industry, teaching a lot of workshops in the industry. Then most recently, came together with a few other practitioners to form loop collective, where we're working on larger engagements that focus on design systems and the publishing culture around them. So, that's been kind of my trajectory.
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That sounds like a fun trajectory. Tell us a little bit about implementing content strategy in the organization. In short, I know that a lot of our listeners may be struggling with- as you said, the content representing what the business needs. Not so much on what the users need, the customers need.
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How do we help move that pendulum to the other direction?
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It's always a conversation about empathy and understanding. We fling those terms around so much, and I kind of roll my eyes using them. But even if we don't use those words, even if we're not talking with our clients about what empathy means to them - that is the mindset that we have to bring to it. To say that if you want effective communication - you need to understand where your user is, where your user is coming from, that audience that you're hoping to reach. You need to meet them where they are. To help them grow, and to help them go to where you want them to be.
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Whether it's to learn more about your product. So that they can become maybe a more confident consumer, and make a decision with a product. Or maybe understand more about the service you provide, or what self service is like in your organization. So that they can make better decisions about...
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Maybe it's their own healthcare, or their own personal financial management. Whenever we're trying to engage with the other, whenever we're trying to engage with someone else - it has to be about understanding where they are. The jargon that they use.
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The mindset that they're bringing to the problem. The stress in their life. The problem that matters most to them. We have to understand that if we hope to help them meet that problem and fix that problem. I think that's a conversation that requires a lot of empathy. I think that's what we operationalize, when we start budgeting for user research. Or when we start doing the work of understanding the language that our target audience uses...
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When we're analyzing, maybe, customer service logs or looking at search entries to see the kind of vocabulary they're bringing to it. That comes from a place of empathy and consideration of saying, "I don't necessarily relate to you.
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I don't need to be in your shoes, though, to still respect you enough to care about you.
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And to care about the concerns, language, and needs that you have." Yeah. So, I think that's how we can bring the right mindset into this work - to help people care about their audiences. Once you start caring about somebody else, then you can start to prioritize their needs. That's a great point.
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I love the point you made about understanding their vocabulary and their jargon. We get often get caught up in our own business vocabulary and jargon. Your suggestion of looking at search logs to find out how people are using words... is really interesting.
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So thank you for that.
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Yeah, well. I think a lot of what I was focusing on in writing Trustworthy... is about establishing rapport with your audience. So that you can kind of open up that rhetorical arena, or even playing field if you want to call it that. To say, my needs as the brand...
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don't have to be the same as your needs as the audience. But we have to value them equally if we want to be able to engage in commerce or meet the same goal.
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If I want you to vote for the politician that I'm supporting.
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First, I have to care about your needs from public policy. It's like that thing, where we have to establish that rapport. I think the way organizations build trust - to use that example of working with the same vocabulary, and understanding what that vocabulary is. One of the ways that organizations builds trust is... By meeting their audiences where they are.
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Not forcing them, necessarily, to learn new jargon. Or to try to get up to speed with it quickly. But also not dumbing things down, but helping their audiences, instead, to smarten up. Like one of my favorite examples of that in the book is from the NHS. I spoke with a with a few members of the UX team there. I think Sara Wilcox shared with me how they're always in the position of meeting the needs of content creators - some of whom are physicians and clinicians that have very technical backgrounds, that are trying to communicate with audiences of lay people.
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Like people that are just like,"I have this health issue, what do I do about it? What should I expect? Is this a big deal or not?" And people are coming to that kind of web experience with probably a lot of stress and concern. They don't want anybody to talk down to them. But at the same time, if you're meeting somebody in that point of acute stress, and saying, "Okay. You need to learn a whole new language, and guess what it's going to be in passive voice." Problem. So, she talked about how they break things down for their audiences. Again, not to dumb things down, but to help them smarten up. So if you're maybe dealing with some sort of gastrointestinal issue, and you're like, "I don't know if this is an appendix. Or if I've got something that's about to rupture. Or maybe I should have just made other choices at dinner last night." They're saying, "All right, you're going to be meeting with a clinician about these issues. They're going to ask about things like pee and poo - because that's the vernacular, that's what people say." Then, they'll go on to say, "They may also use terms, like asking about defecation." So, they're meeting people where they are in the vernacular. Then, introducing other vocabulary that reflects more of the background of their practitioners and bringing people along that path. I think that is so important to drag the pendulum, as you were asking many minutes ago. To drag the pendulum back; from just focusing on the needs of content creators, or the brands that are sponsoring that content - that brand that cares about the content. Bring it back, not all the way to the needs of the user. But to meet the user halfway, and bring things back to the middle. That's really the work that we can do to best represent the needs of both sides of that rhetorical arena.
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That's super interesting. It's almost introducing folks - as you said, meeting them where they are giving them that intro... To help them along, up that ramp, to the next step. So that you can really inform them.
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Yeah. So, because I think everybody wants to become smarter - that's one of those things that drives and motivates so many of our interests as humans. We all want to become a little bit more knowledgeable about the stuff that matters to us. It's just not "everything matters equally to everyone". And that's okay.
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But we do bring different types of expertise, some of which is in the form of lived experience, to this work. By meeting people where they are, and then helping them to become more knowledgeable about their own health conditions... Well, turns out that they can be more involved patients than in their own care. Or by meeting people where they are, and helping them to better understand how to manage their own finances. Turns out that they can do a better job of that, than when they understand the vocabulary and systems better. Or by meeting people where they are and helping them understand more about the domain of home audio equipment - well, it turns out, then they're going to have a lower rate of product returns when they're shopping for it.
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Because they're shopping with that much more confidence. When we can create confidence, that's when we can foster trust.
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Create confidence to foster trust, I love that. How else can companies foster that trust? You mentioned meeting them where they are, to start that education process? But then, what's that next step?
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I don't know if it's the next steps, so much as another another leg in the stool or pillar of the framework. But I talk a lot in the book - about voice, volume, and vulnerability is like those three key pillars. I think another part of engaging with an audience with respect to help grow their confidence. Their own self-confidence in their knowledge is... By speaking to them in a consistent voice. When businesses can do that, both visually and verbally, offering consistency - it lowers the education load on someone. Then, they know the system with which they're interacting. They understand the brand with which they're interacting. When they're not having to think like, "Wait a second. Am I on the same page still? Is this still part of the same site?
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Because the buttons are still in the same place there." Things look and sound as they expect. I think offering that kind of consistency helps a lot. Then, also offering people the right volume of information, as far as the level of detail - the length to which we're willing to go to educate them. I think that helps build their confidence too.
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Because in some cases, people need more information to be able to make good decisions - and feel good about the decisions they make. In other cases, businesses need to simplify things. Not make them simplistic- again, not to dumb things down. But they need to extract the... Get rid of the extraneous stuff that's just cluttering up an experience, so that people can focus. I think it's that focus and consistency. Those are two big keys to helping people build their confidence in a system, feel successful within that system. In its success, that helps build their confidence.
00:14:08.679 --> 00:14:33.669
The consistency is what helps build expectations, right? When we have expectations set properly, then people have good experiences, right? My question for you there is... How does a large enterprise wrangle themselves in terms of being consistent in that voice, across different properties or across designs?
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I think one of the best things an organization can do for its audiences is... To acknowledge its silos and start tearing them down. Like silos are for grain - not for people, not for ideas, and certainly not for budgets Right. And plus, as to overall operational efficiency.
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either. When your audience is interacting with your organization, they're not aware of your org chart. They shouldn't have to care about an org chart. But when they get very bifurcated experiences, or different experiences, depending on the vertical with which they're engaging... I mean, it's like 20-25 years ago back in a mall, when we used to go to those places... You're trying to make a product return only to here. Like, "Oh, you bought this off of from our catalog." Or I don't know. If we said, "From our website at that point. But you bought it from our catalog.
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Well, you can't return it in store." And everyone's answer should have always been, "Why not?" Right? Why should I care about how you organize your business? I'm just trying to get a shirt and the color that I liked. I think your organization's problems should not become your audience's problems. But that's exactly what happens when you don't fix the problem of siloed information. It turns out...
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When you have systems that span, that cross your silos, so that people can exchange information more easily across them - it's better for content creators.
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Because their work can be that much more efficient, budget friendly, and cost effective. I guess. It's also better for your users, because they don't have to care which branch of the organization am I engaging right now. I'm always going to see a consistent policy, a consistent look and feel. I think that's where we can start to see the benefit of design systems that are kind of "One Ring to rule them all". When a design system stands the different silos in an organization, it allows all of the designers in that organization - all of the content creators, content designers, copywriters, marketers within that organization - know that, well, they don't have to reinvent the wheel every time. They can save their creativity for the really juicy problems. Not things around like button, nomenclature, and placement, or shape.
00:17:04.589 --> 00:17:04.920
Right.
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So, was there anything else that you're hoping to convey here today about designing for trust?
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I think beyond just... Well, it's bigger than designing for trust.
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Although I do think that trust is the biggest, thorniest problem facing designers right now. Because I think we're in a tough place in our society - what with the pandemic, what's going on with the economy, the changes that we've seen in in our political system... I'm talking primarily in the US, but also beyond the US. Over the past decade, we've seen so many reasons to be cynical. Because so many of the institutions that we thought were immobile and fixed, and people have figured it out. We've seen so many of those institutions change rapidly, and not always for good. So, people have become cynical. When people become cynical, they fail to trust the sources of information around them. They fail to trust their own instincts as well. I think that's a problem for any designer that works in an organization that is hoping to sell a product, persuade an audience, educate an audience, get them to act in a different way. Whether you're in the public sector, or private sector, nonprofit - it doesn't matter. We're in the business of helping people and helping organizations better communicate with each other. When people are cynical, that communication slows down. We've seen sales cycles take longer, and a lot of marketing messages just fall flat now. If we're in the business of confronting that cynicism, that's a powerful place to be. Because I think designers look at the world and say, "This is not enough. Things can be better." I think cynics look at the world when it's bad, look around and say, "It's worse." Designers look at the world and say, "Well, it can be better." I think if we're in that mindset of saying, "We can improve things, change is possible." Then, we need to look for other inputs, influences, and sources of inspiration.
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Because if we just look at what kind of work we're all doing, if we just look around at what we've been doing so far - we're just going to keep repeating the same mistakes. I think it's time to look outward. I think my big piece of guidance for designers would be to say, "Step away from the computer, go to a museum." That's where I find my biggest sources of information and inspiration. I think looking at how exhibit designers and museum curators take existing knowledge, existing examples of work, and bring them together to create new meaning. Then, guide an audience - maybe through an exhibit to say, "Here's this new point that we're making based on the work of this artist, or based on this collection of objects. Here's something new that we can learn for it." That to me is such a pure and instructive kind of user experience design. I think that we can all learn a lot from that.
00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:49.930
Definitely. We always learn so much when we examine design cultures that are different than our own. We're often...Folks listening here are probably doing lots of design for digital. But to your point, you go and see how museums do it, or an aquarium for that matter, other design domains.
00:20:50.440 --> 00:20:55.960
You can learn so much about how they approach things. Then, go apply that to your own work.
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Yeah. I mean, I think just the effort of all the things that we've been discussing today around meeting your audience where they are...
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A museum does that by breaking down complex vocabulary, teaching about different time periods, different art movements, offering definitions screens right there on the wall when you first walk into an exhibit. So that you can, then, take that knowledge through the subsequent rooms in the exhibit.
00:21:20.589 --> 00:22:16.960
And look at things in a more educated way. Breaking down vocabulary in that way is not a very complex thing. It doesn't have to be hard to meet your audience where they are. Or if you're engaging a moving audience that comprises both adults and children, you'll see text screens on the wall at different heights. Also, maybe at different levels of vocabulary. Maybe posing things in questions in different ways, again, to meet an audience where they are. So that everyone can take something meaningful from the experience. I think then when we look at how they juxtapose different objects or different pieces of art, so that you can take new meaning from them. We can take that kind of thinking and that sort of approach into our own work; to realize that sometimes it's not through the act of definition, or how we execute on a topic that creates new meaning.
00:22:17.079 --> 00:22:26.019
Sometimes, it's taking content and bringing it together in new ways that allows your audience to create new meaning in themselves and of themselves.
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Create new meaning.
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Help our users create new meaning for themselves. That's a wonderful takeaway. So Margo, thank you so much for joining the podcast today. Gave us a lot of great takeaways to help build trust in our design. So, thank you for joining me here today.
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Thank you very much. This was a lot of fun.
00:22:44.779 --> 00:23:17.059
My guest today has been Margo Blumstein, who wrote the books Content Strategy at Work; Real World Stories to Strengthen Every Interactive Project and most recently Trustworthy; How the Smartest Brands Beat Cynicism and Bridge the Trust Gap. Thanks for listening, everyone. You've been listening to the 97 UX things podcasts, a companion to the book 97 Things Every UX practitioner should know - published by O'Reilly and available at your local bookshop. All book royalties go to UX nonprofits, as well any funds raised by this podcast.
00:23:13.279 --> 00:23:27.259
The theme music is "Moisturize the Situation" by Consider the Source. I'm your host and book editor, Dan Berlin. Please remember to find the needs in your community, and fill them with your best work. Thanks for listening
