Ep. 65- Faking Orgasms, Using Sex Toys And Understanding Pleasure with Emily King

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Hello and welcome to the Wide Yourself Up podcast.
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I'm your host, Carter McGreevy, and this is the podcast that tells the truth about Helen.
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Hello, how are you all?
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I'm so delighted to have you re ears.
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In today's episode, we have the incredible force that is Emily King.
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Emily King is from Newcastle in the north of Ireland.
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She is based in Edinburgh.
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She's a sexologist and somatic bodyworker, and she is before our time.
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She has set in the waves of change around sex and pleasure and the deeply needed work that we all need around this, and especially her pleasure-based education around sex, can make a huge difference to gender-based violence.
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We talk everything from sex toys, the way we she lose lube, vibrators, what else do we talk about?
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Her experience with working with sex workers in Edinburgh.
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Emily has such a depth of knowledge and experience, and I'm so I just can't wait to share with you.
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As always, if you're wanting to work with me, you can work with me online for body work and breath work in the feeling part of the healing journey.
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And you can also join my online community.
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It's an online movement and breath work studio so that you can practice healing daily in your home.
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If you have any questions around that, please let me know and enjoy today's episode.
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Well, I'm delighted to have you on, Emily, and to record this podcast.
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You are a sexologist and a somatic bodyworker.
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Explain to listeners what a sexologist is.
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Yeah, so a sexologist is someone who essentially just studies human sexuality.
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So you'll get sexologists who do different things.
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Me being a somatic sexologist means that I merge embodiment and the study of the body with the study of sexuality.
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So it's those two combined essentially.
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How did you get into this?
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Like, where did this all come from?
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Especially being from Northern Ireland, by the way.
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I know and it's it's so needed in Northern Ireland beyond any words.
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If there's a if there's any young listeners, study sex work because you'll never be out of work.
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It's funny, my friend and I were actually talking about that the other day because we were talking about careers, and she was saying, like, you really feel like you're at the start of something, because it's only gonna build and build and build.
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So we need more sexologists 100%.
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I got into it, it's so funny because I did not know that my job existed even five years ago, really, which is quite bonkers.
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I had because I've only heard about in like in the past God, I studied sex uh just as like a part of a bigger course in 2019, and only really became were were of like vulva massage and all those things just then.
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Yeah.
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This is the thing, it depends where you're situated in the world, how likely you are to have heard about it.
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And I had always been really interested in sex, and I'd always written, I remember even in school writing stories that would allude to sexuality and things like that.
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And then when it came to uni, I just did English licks, didn't have a clue what I wanted to do, liked writing, and then went to the Netherlands for my second year, my Erasmus year.
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And there then I had like this plethora of options in terms of sexuality studies and gender studies.
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So I had the best year of my life for many reasons, but studying was amazing there, and that's where I really got the bug for studying sexuality, and then whenever I came home, I wanted to bring that into my research then for my dissertation.
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So I did my dissertation on female authored erotica, and it's that time of your life to know when everyone's asking, what are you doing your dissertation on?
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blah blah blah blah.
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And I would mention that, and everyone would be so curious.
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I would then get 500 questions from it.
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So after that, I decided to start a blog which feels so retro, basically just like copied and expanded on bits of my existing research so it made it more readable to people because everyone was so interested in it.
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And I was like, I was just posting that really on my personal Instagram, and so many people were engaging with it, and like girls from school that I didn't really know that well.
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I was just having all of these really interesting conversations, and after that, I started writing for sexual wellness brands, but it was really copywriting more so than anything else.
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And then long story short, moved to Edinburgh, did my master's, and I did international development because I I imagined myself going into policy more so than anything else, but around gender-based violence, and I continued studying sexuality and then did my research on how pleasure-based sex education could be used to eradicate violence against women, and I was interviewing sex educators, and after that, I was just like, I need to do this.
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So trained as a sex educator first, got my job in criminal justice, so I started working one-to-one with women then in prison, which was a baptism of fire for sure.
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That sounds amazing, though, in terms of yeah, incredible work to be doing.
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And just what I've read and uh listened to around women's jails, they're so unique, right?
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Compared to male jails as well.
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100%.
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And something that will stay with me that I learned through that job, the female prison population has been increasing loads over the last few years, and there's research starting to be done around acquired brain injury in women.
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So, if a woman, for example, a lot of these women have experienced domestic abuse and domestic violence and physical violence, which can then lead to acquired brain injury, and that then can lead to offending.
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Oh wow.
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Yeah, that's so interesting.
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Yeah, so it's really interesting to like consider the impact of abuse on the wider public, even.
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It's super, super interesting.
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There's not enough research on that, but that's something that that will always stay with me from it.
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I don't think a lot of people know about that, especially with all the chat at the minute with uh the the 30, isn't it?
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30 death, 30 women have died now in the north of Ireland in the in the past year, which is insane.
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Absolutely insane.
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And we need to start looking at it in that wider lens to act because it's you our perception of that kind of experience for women, it's it's so singular and it's not.
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We need to look at the collective impact on women and beyond, because I think that's the only way that people will actually bother their arses to do anything about it, which is unfortunate.
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Yeah, and the cost of prisons and it doesn't work.
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Incarcination doesn't work either.
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It does not work, absolutely not.
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From there, I switched into gender-based violence, started working with sex workers in Edinburgh because there's legal brothels here.
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Um I never knew that.
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Yeah, it's the only place in Scotland where it's legal.
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And so I didn't know there could be just like a city that could have it.
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Yeah, it's really interesting because but it's not even fully legal, it's almost tolerated, but it's it's there, you know.
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It's I it's it's a very difficult thing to explain because brothel keeping is illegal.
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If you and I were sex workers and I said, sure, come and work at my flat, we could be done for brothel keeping, but not uh trade in money for sex, okay.
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So it's yeah, it's bonker.
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That's a real Irish law, it sounds like well.
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This is it, it it's just quite nonsensical, and it's not it's not like it's decriminalized at all.
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So it's very much kind of not ignored by law and policy, but kind of like oh didder and about with.
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Oh how what would you describe like the majority of women who get into sex works in Edinburgh?
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Oh, it's it's so hard to speak to a majority because it's so varied, and Jesus, that was an eye-opener as well.
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Because I've always been very much do what you want, that's none of my business, basically.
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But just the extent of male violence to sex workers, like that is the thing that I took away from that.
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And it was really disturbing, actually.
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But a lot, you know, there would be patterns throughout the year where when it came up to Christmas time, there would be an influx of women working who were nurses and teachers because they needed to be able to afford Christmas.
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Oh, that's so sad.
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So, like it was a little yeah.
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It's so sad, but it that just shows how much of a failure our society is because that should not happen.
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Yeah.
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I know because I think too, it's been glamorized in a way, sex work over the past few years.
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Thank God it's been given its respect to in terms of people who do this work, but it you know, people there definitely has been more of a conversation around glamorizing it as if it's a choice, but it's usually not, it's usually women who have their hands have been forced, right?
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Well, not even.
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It's it's almost more complex than that, at the point that how do we define choice?
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Because if your choice is based on the fact that you're out of options, then is it really a choice?
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Do you know what I mean?
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Like it's very different, someone choosing.
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I like I know sex workers who have moved into more fetish-based kink work, and I would say that when it's aligned with your own personal sexuality and choice of sexual expression, that's when it can be really sustainable and fulfilling and wonderful as a career, right?
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And you have the business skills behind you as well, because that's the other thing that's completely overlooked.
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I think every self-employed person knows that, right?
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But that's that's not the majority of people.
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If you are a sex worker who doesn't have the privilege really of choosing clients based on your personal interests and your boundaried work-ins, it can be really difficult and impactful to you not only as a sexual person but as a whole person.
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So it's it's a huge spectrum, basically.
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And the happiest sex workers were those who had, you know, who had clients who were really grateful for the space that they would provide for them.
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Because if you're exploring really specific things, that that's really meaningful work, in my opinion.
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But then you have a lot of men who, rather than viewing a sex worker as, you know, a professional who is providing, yes, a professional service, but is also a human being, they often treated women like a service rather than a human being.
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Yeah, made it you know like a robotic transactional sort of type of thing, yeah.
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Yeah.
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And sometimes that works for people, sometimes it doesn't.
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Yeah.
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Cause I think I would say some of the driver for men, right, is that the lack of emotions.
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Well, they do they want sex without too much emotion involved or responsibility to the person, right?
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And that's where the money helps with that transaction and and makes it but yeah, it's it's complicated, isn't it, to then take humanity away from a person.
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But especially if there is that pattern of violence against sex workers, it's such an issue that needs to be addressed.
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100%.
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And it's you know, the likelihood of being murdered goes up by over a hundred percent when you're a sex worker.
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Advocacy around sex work was so important, and I found that in working in that sector, it's really difficult because it's so polarizing, where you either get your all for it and pro and pro-decriminalization, which in my opinion is the only way to go for regulation, and then have a nuance within that decriminalization and an education-focused, you know, approach in terms of sex ed.
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That's the only way we'll overhaul anything.
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But then you would get really feminist organizations that are completely anti-sex work and say all of it is exploitative, and that's so blatantly not true.
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You know, it's to paint all women as victims and all sex workers as victims is just it's reductive, it's insulting, and it just continues the normalization of women then becoming victims of it.
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So it's that's a disaster.
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And I think to be able to see how culture can really benefit from sex work is really important because you know, adult performers who create educational content, that's really good for people's well-being, and that's a very specific kind of work that does benefit, I would say, the wider majority.
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It's it's really complex.
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But then on the other hand, you do have the complete oversaturation of things like OnlyFans.
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That's what I was just in my head, too.
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But I was in my head there, it's OnlyFans has made it safer in a way in terms of being online, but then you get people who become very popular, like Bonnie Blue, who can't go in the street in case she's going to get petrol in her face.
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Obviously, she's a very antagonizing character, so she's not your standard OnlyFans star or person who earns a great deal of money.
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But wonder is that you know that's a route to be safer.
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But a lot of people I know in OnlyFans work, they're their partner or there's a man working alongside them.
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And do you think in what you've seen in in-person services, did you notice that they needed to have then a male presence to feel safer or have that involvement in their work?
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Sometimes, usually there is.
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It's really common for there to be a meal in their lives somewhere, and that's usually like a pimp situation, and it's kind of like what comes first, the chicken or the egg, in terms of this dynamic.
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It's really fascinating.
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But any, you know, if you've worked in any service-based organization with like addictions, work or homelessness, people will know.
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And if there's anyone listening to this who has that experience, you'll know that when you see vulnerable women, there's always a man or two trailing them all the time.
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You can see it, and if you haven't seen it, you will know.
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And it is that exploitation that happens on a very subliminal level at times, but like OnlyFans obviously has me that it's safer in a sense, but the digital world isn't safe.
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There's so much exploitation that goes on there, and like I've known men that print out photos and post them around women's neighborhoods, like they will go to no ends, essentially.
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So there is danger to it, especially because of the cultural stigma against sex work.
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If we actually tackle that first, that would protect women and sex workers more than anything else.
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So men wouldn't have that ability of destroying them, essentially.
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It's so dark, isn't it?
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When you discussed the pleasure-based education around sex for women, what was the research or the findings on the how that can change violence against women?
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Yeah.
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So really what I found was that you cannot separate pleasure and consent.
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So you cannot teach consent without mentioning the fact that you're supposed to enjoy sex, right?
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And never once, you know, I did consent workshops when I was at uni.
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That was never mentioned.
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And those are by more specialist, you know, sex education services, which do really good jobs, but so when you went to consent workshops, there was never mention of pleasure?
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Well, no, it wasn't this.
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It was like, oh, it should be freely given.
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You should say, you should hear that it's a yes.
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What about teaching attunement?
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What about teaching the non-verbal communication?
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What about teaching signs of arousal?
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You know, the body isn't involved in any of that conversation.
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It's very, again, black and white and reductive.
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And people say yes when they don't mean yes all the time, especially in heterosexual relationships, the power dynamic, it's it's out of balance, you know, and it's so ingrained and conditioned in women, whether we like it or not, or how feminist we think we are and free we are.
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We are conditioned to please men on some level, and how much work we've done around deconditioning that is it just depends on each person, right?
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And you know, I like to think that I've done a lot of work on deconditioning that and pleasure and consent, but I noticed the times when I've abandoned myself in those situations in sex and really held that and just that deep wiring to please a man over my own comfort and needs.
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Yeah, and that's it, it's it's subconscious, and you often will not understand the workings of it until then you either detach yourself completely from sex, you find yourself moving into a complete freeze response around any kind of touch, fear develops.
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You know, I almost notice this pattern in women.
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If I have an online consultation with someone, and a woman will open with, I've got no libido, don't know where my libidos went.
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I used to find sex really easy in my late teens into early 20s.
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Then I got into this long-term relationship, and after a year, it's like I just have no interest in sex whatsoever.
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I like my partner's brilliant, but I I don't have any desire.
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I recoil from his touch, and I hear it time and time and time again.
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And I do just believe that that is the impact of patriarchy on women's bodies.
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Yeah, where the the body just has just says no.
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Can they repair with that person?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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So sometimes what will actually happen is that your body feels safe enough to say no.
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Oh yeah, because they they love the person, right?
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Yeah.
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So it's like, oh brilliant, I can finally, you know, step into this place that I've wanted to be all of those years and haven't been able to.
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And a lot of male partners are really patient, really understanding and want to work with women.
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And you know, men do seek attunement as well, and to be able to understand why their partners are the way that they are, and it's really important because it's it's really political to explain that to someone.
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I've actually I've been objectified since I was 10, right?
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And actually, is it the case that I do find a sense of empowerment pulling away from men?
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Because there is a sense of empowerment in that, but often it can lead to disconnection, so it's a very short-lived, short-lived sense of empowerment.
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And what I like to focus on with women is well, what would feel good if anything?
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So it's really expanding intimacy and women learning to center their own desire is a process, you know.
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That's it's hard.
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And the benefit of working in the way that I do with the body and through the body, and being able to incorporate touch, we're able to do that in session, where I'm quite challenging sometimes with women to say, I don't believe that you know that's a big yes for you, right?
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Because your body is showing me this.
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Yeah, you know, it actually happened to me in a session in a training, and it was, you know, it was the thing where I was sitting there and I had to like energetically say if I want to touch or not.
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And in my head, I was like, I want touch, I want touch, and she didn't touch me.
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And I was like, after I was like, Why didn't you touch me?
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And she was like, Your body was saying no, and I was like, Whoa, you know, I had that experience too, and uh yeah, it's really interesting the disconnect, your body isn't there yet, you know.
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That's it, the body moves at a different pace, and oftentimes our minds can't really hypothesize what's happening for our bodies, even though they really, really, really want to, but they can't.
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Yeah, the body's so much slower.
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The mind, well, the mind just races to what we want, what we desire, you know.
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Where the body's like, no, I've been through a lot.
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Can we take our time here?
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So we'll go back to you did your dissertation.
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I actually did my dissertation on sex as well.
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I did mine's around shame, around sex.
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I did it.
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I Couldn't understand.
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I'm uh obviously a lot older than you, I'm 38.
00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:06.960
So I was doing this in what year did I do my dissertation?
00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:09.279
2010 or something, can't really remember now.
00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:15.119
I couldn't understand that everybody was having unprotected sex and not getting tested for STIs.
00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:25.680
I was like, and also STIs are more detrimental to female bodies over the male, and it's like us always paying the price, and I just couldn't understand it.
00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:27.839
So that's what I did my dissertation on.
00:22:28.319 --> 00:22:33.759
How did you handle people's judgments and and what they would say?
00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:39.359
Because if I said to my family I was becoming a sexologist, they would have a connection.
00:22:39.680 --> 00:22:46.079
But you said you grew up in a very sex positive house, which I like I didn't even know that existed in in Belfast.
00:22:46.559 --> 00:22:47.440
Well, do you know what?
00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:49.359
So I'm from Newcastle, County Don.
00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:52.000
Or yeah, 45 minutes from Belfast.
00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:56.079
It's funny, every time I say Newcastle, people say, Jesus, you don't sound like a geordie.
00:22:56.240 --> 00:22:57.519
And I'm like, I'm not.
00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:02.000
I don't know if sex positive household is the right word.
00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:07.519
It's not necessarily that there was positivity about it, there was openness about it, right?
00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:12.400
So it was very like our dinner table, my family.
00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:19.119
I've I'm one of four girls, and mum and dad, very lucky dad being surrounded by all of us.
00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:23.039
And our I'm the youngest of four as well.
00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:31.440
And our dinner tables, like we were never allowed phones at the table, TV was off, and we just talked and we would talk about whatever.
00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:32.880
And that's so nice.
00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:34.400
It's so nice, it's so important.
00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:42.720
And it was actually like when I look back on it, mum and dad really encouraged us to voice our thoughts.
00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:47.920
Like, that's where we practiced speaking and expressing ourselves, right?
00:23:48.240 --> 00:24:03.839
And it was really helpful actually, and we would have like debates basically about things, and a lot of the time it was me, me and dad, and dad used to say to me, For God's sake, Emily, why are you so obsessed with sex?
00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:13.200
It's it's not, you know, it's not the only part of a relationship, and this is before I became a sexologist.
00:24:13.279 --> 00:24:26.960
This was in like my teens, and I would say it's not everything, but I think it plays a really, really, really big role, and I think it's really symbolic of a lot more than the physical act of sex.
00:24:27.759 --> 00:24:34.319
And he would just, oh, for God's sake, you know, there's this, there's this, and I'm saying, I'm I'm not overlooking that, Dad.
00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:40.480
But it's really it's where a lot of things go and a lot of things happen.
00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:44.000
Yeah, well, it's part of the most powerful cycle on earth, right?
00:24:44.079 --> 00:24:56.880
Along with the mental cycle, it's the process that gives life, and it's yeah, I would agree with you, and I think it's I think though we live in a world that's so sex-starved of good sex, though, is the issue, right?
00:24:57.119 --> 00:25:04.640
Well, that's it, because sex is equated with a lot of the times danger and unhealthy behavior and harm.
00:25:05.039 --> 00:25:09.200
So that then perpetuates harm.
00:25:09.359 --> 00:25:21.119
So surely going to the source of that and looking at what is not working here, and what is not working there is the shame, it's the lack of education, it's the stigma around it, right?
00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:40.319
So, you know, sex it's funny because like I've been so interested in it, and obviously that doesn't mean that it's been this easy thing in my life, which is always really important to say, because I think a lot of sexologists, and they get to choose to do this, mark it with their sexuality, right?
00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:49.200
And I would say I do that to an extent because I do bring myself into my work, but it's not all sunshine and roses all the time, and nor should it be.
00:25:49.359 --> 00:25:52.559
Like that wouldn't be healthy either, right?
00:25:53.279 --> 00:26:11.359
So, you know, reflecting on my own experiences of sex throughout life and being a teenager has just fed into my interest of it more, and it's been more motivating, really, in my work now.
00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:15.279
But my dad, God love him.
00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:20.160
He now, now he's like, You're completely right, you're on to something.
00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:20.960
Oh, really?
00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:22.079
He's very cute.
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:26.319
And he's 70, so there's there's hope for Wow, what a man.
00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:27.759
He loves a newspaper.
00:26:27.920 --> 00:26:36.319
So if there's any article on sexual wellness, on the sex industry, on gender-based violence, he'll take a photo of it and send it to me.
00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:38.240
That is so cute.
00:26:38.799 --> 00:26:43.680
My grandda would have asked, I would have put him in an early grave if I had said I was a sexologist.
00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:44.880
Swear to God.
00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:47.119
I really noticed I'm 38.
00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:53.119
I have a brother who's I have an older brother who's 40, brother who's 34 and 32.
00:26:53.599 --> 00:26:55.839
And I noticed the change.
00:26:56.160 --> 00:27:00.880
There was massive change in those 10 years, like from me to someone who's 28 now.
00:27:01.119 --> 00:27:19.519
When I was growing up in West Belfast, Catholic, all girls' school, you know, you had to be going out with your boyfriend a year, and the worst thing you could be was slut, and you had to like guard your virginity with all costs, and that and it's so bad that because it's all contributing to rape culture, right?
00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:32.079
And it's crazy the shift, and thank God it's happened with so much further to go in terms of that, and to really on what you said, supporting women and touching themselves.
00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:40.880
I think that's something that I notice women that I work with is massively missing from their lives, is that self-touch, regardless of whether you have a partner or not.
00:27:41.119 --> 00:27:42.799
Yeah, a hundred percent.
00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:50.720
But even, you know, thinking about how that was spoken about in school, and this is something I hear from people all the time.
00:27:51.039 --> 00:28:02.720
I went to a Catholic All Girls school as well, and in that kind of environment, you know, you would have been so aware that boys masturbated, that was normal and completely acceptable.
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:10.400
And the thought of it, if it ever came up in conversation, you know, age 13, it would be, ew, do you do that?
00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:11.039
Right.
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:25.200
And it was that like disgust, and it was almost, you know, everyone, I bet everyone did it, but it was that fear of I will never mention that I do that, that I engage with my body.
00:28:25.519 --> 00:28:28.240
Yeah, so I've told this in this podcast before.
00:28:28.400 --> 00:28:43.039
When I was 21, I was on a girl's holiday, and by this time I've had oral sex, had sex with the my boyfriend at the time, and I was actually having good sex, have experienced climax, all those things, which you know a lot of girls at that age hadn't.
00:28:43.359 --> 00:29:17.279
And we were playing, I've never, and the girls were like, I've never finkered myself, and I was the only one who didn't drink, I was the only one who'd never done it, and I definitely think it was due to my experience of sexual trauma at a young age and the implications of that, and then just all that shame and the way like growing up in that, and I think that's why I share that story, and I think that's why it's so important to talk about sex because had we not played that game, God knows how long it would have taken me to masturbate, which is depressing, but that's it, right?
00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:26.000
And that's why I I always say to people, you need to be talking about sex with more people than your sexual partner.
00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:30.559
Yeah, I need to know what everybody's saying, what's happening, what's my options?
00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:32.640
I need my mind open.
00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:46.079
But that's it, it can be really good for inspiration, it can be really good for bringing you closer to friends, and even, you know, looking at how we're talking right now, we're laughing, we're smiling.
00:29:46.400 --> 00:29:49.119
Sex has a good sense of humor, right?
00:29:49.599 --> 00:29:54.880
And that's great, that's a really important part of how we can express ourselves sexually.
00:29:54.960 --> 00:30:04.799
And I think the more that we kind of pigeonhole our sexuality into, well, it's attached to this one person that I have sex with, that's really detrimental.
00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:15.279
Yeah, I think too, what what really concerns me, and I'd love to know your thoughts on how we can change this, is men not speaking to their friends about sex in a meaningful way.
00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:30.559
Yeah, sure, there'll be like, oh, I had sex with her last night, or you know, yeah, have a good sex life, but they're not talking about the details, they're not talking about struggling to pleasure a woman or you know, any issues that may come up for them or anything they want to explore.
00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:36.240
Yeah, and and that it makes me really sad that they don't have that.
00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:50.960
And I think, you know, I'll often call that one of the the only female privileges is how we can express ourselves with various people because we're culturally permitted to do so with our friends, right?
00:30:51.200 --> 00:30:56.079
Yeah, and yeah, but we're not culturally permitted to masturbate, but we could talk about sex, yeah.
00:30:56.319 --> 00:31:01.920
One of the only female privileges, Carla is using our mods, right?
00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:04.319
But not expressing ourselves with our bodies.
00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:24.960
It would be so beneficial for men to do that in so many ways, and it would take so much pressure off of their relationships as well, because the emotional labor that comes into a lot of heterosexual relationships because of that lack of male-with-male conversation.
00:31:25.279 --> 00:31:38.400
But you know, I also think that that's why it's really beneficial for men to have female friends, because it's more likely that they'll go to them, and it's more likely that actually a woman would invite that conversation in a respectful way.
00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:55.039
And obviously, it's not women's job all the time to teach and educate men, not at all, but realistically, how is that conversation going to be initiated between men without perhaps some level of female input?
00:31:55.359 --> 00:32:04.079
And it's a really beautiful thing as well when I don't work with individual men, but I do work with men within couples.
00:32:04.400 --> 00:32:27.599
And whenever men are able to experience something sexually, and how they communicate that gratitude to their female partners is so like it makes me well up every time because it's really beautiful and it's it's soft, it's so lovely, and it's something that you do I'm not seeing or hearing that anywhere outside of my therapy room.
00:32:27.839 --> 00:32:37.920
And there's so many, and even I know young men in their 20s who have new female friends who are you know heterosexual, and you know, how do we shift this and change this?
00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:43.759
And I think that's the you know, in Northern Ireland there were so many single-sex schools, right?
00:32:44.079 --> 00:32:46.799
So that that made it a big problem as well.
00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:51.599
Yeah, and but that as well, it just sexualizes the other sex, doesn't it?
00:32:51.839 --> 00:33:01.200
I used to Jesus, when one man who was under the age of 40 stepped a foot in my school in a carnigan.
00:33:02.319 --> 00:33:03.119
You were obsessed?
00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:08.000
It was like a lump of meat being thrown into a lion's cage.
00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:09.599
Oh my god, yeah.
00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:13.839
You know, was it a good meat or was it just a cracker because you were starving or something?
00:33:14.480 --> 00:33:17.759
Literally, a dry, dry cracker.
00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:22.559
Yeah, I want to talk to you about uh sex toys.
00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:24.880
Bring it on, love, yeah.
00:33:25.039 --> 00:33:27.119
Because you're part of the pleasure club, right?
00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:29.759
Is that your organization or what way does that work?
00:33:29.839 --> 00:33:32.000
Are you a part with a partnership with someone else?
00:33:32.240 --> 00:33:39.279
Yeah, so I partnered with Emma, who is the founder of Nude Society, and she she's amazing.
00:33:39.440 --> 00:34:03.039
She now has four toys under Nude Society, four toys, vibes, a lube, and a massage candle, and they're all gorge, but we basically just plonked our skills together and came up with a few online, super accessible sex ed courses, and yeah, we do a few wee bits together.
00:34:03.279 --> 00:34:04.079
She's fab.
00:34:04.480 --> 00:34:06.240
The toys are amazing.
00:34:06.640 --> 00:34:13.440
I know I was actually looking, I think it was at the is it Glenda or something, is the most popular Gwen, is it?
00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:14.400
Yeah, yeah.
00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:17.519
I'm definitely curious to to purchase.
00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:19.440
Would that be the one you'd recommend?
00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:26.639
Yeah, Gwen, she like she has just sold out again and again and again and again, which is always a really good sign.
00:34:26.800 --> 00:34:30.559
And I think it's this beautiful, like little pebble shape.
00:34:30.639 --> 00:34:51.599
I don't have her in the studio, but it fits so beautifully around the external vulva, and then you can use the more pointed edges on the external clitoris for more like specific pointed stimulation, but she's really good at fitting between bodies as well for partnered toy expression.
00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:54.400
Work in a uh partnership too.
00:34:54.480 --> 00:35:01.599
Okay, when I did my sex course in 2019, it was very how would you say it?
00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:06.480
It was a tantra course, but it was very anti-sex toys.
00:35:06.559 --> 00:35:09.360
And I was wondering what your thoughts are on that, and that's good as thought.
00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:25.039
Now, the what the teacher at the time said, you know, it desensitizes your clitoris, and I did notice with myself, and that's a stop of practice, and I'm sure you have lots of thoughts on this, of start rushing to come to climax, right?
00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:27.440
And can I do this?
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:27.840
No.
00:35:27.920 --> 00:35:41.840
So we have any tips on this because once I get that wave, I ride the wave, and it's I've manure of women who don't ride the wave because then that's how you explore different pleasure and different depths of pleasure, right?
00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:43.199
Absolutely.
00:35:43.360 --> 00:35:45.440
I have so many thoughts on that.
00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:54.239
And it's it's a really interesting thing with any kind of holistic approach to sexuality.
00:35:54.639 --> 00:35:59.760
A lot of it is sexual shame in like a fancy fucking coat.
00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:01.599
It does my head in, right?
00:36:01.760 --> 00:36:04.880
All right, honestly, because that is wrong.
00:36:04.960 --> 00:36:09.199
And if you actually just look at evidence, that does not happen, right?
00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:16.639
So this is why we need to merge body-based work with existing evidence-based work, right?
00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:19.119
While we wait on the development of more.
00:36:19.360 --> 00:36:32.719
And as a culture, we like, and as within any kind of spiritual approach to anything, we like to use things as scapegoats rather than look at the behavior around it.
00:36:33.039 --> 00:36:54.159
So if you use a vibrator on your clitoris and you're only going straight to your clitoral glands, which is that part of the clitoris that you can see from the outside of the body, your orgasm will probably get less satisfying over the course of however long it takes to desensitize your felt experience of that.
00:36:54.400 --> 00:37:00.880
It's not that you are desensitizing your actual clitoris, it's that you're just not diversifying touch.
00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:08.639
So whenever we have a really diverse experience of touch, our brain is basically like, oh my God, I don't know where to look.
00:37:08.719 --> 00:37:11.119
This is so exciting, this is amazing.
00:37:11.360 --> 00:37:21.840
Whenever we do something that we do every day for five minutes, our brain's a bit like there's I've nothing really to interest me here, right?
00:37:22.079 --> 00:37:22.719
That's it.
00:37:22.960 --> 00:37:23.280
Okay.
00:37:23.840 --> 00:37:33.119
So there's nothing, you're not damaging your body the way some tantric teachers make it out to be, which is shaming.
00:37:33.360 --> 00:37:40.800
And the same, you know, shame is not attributed to male masturbation practices generally.
00:37:41.440 --> 00:37:55.760
And if you look at how women actually require stimulation for orgasm, a lot of it is external, but you'll get a lot of tantric practices that say, Oh, well, internal is where you really get to know yourself.
00:37:56.000 --> 00:38:02.400
So again, you're just perpetuating shame around female orgasm and how it actually works.
00:38:02.639 --> 00:38:21.119
It's it's fascinating to see with the experience of finding yourself rushing into orgasm, it's really understandable that that happens because when you are diversifying touch, it can sometimes be a really boring process to do that.
00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:37.840
And I think that that's something that isn't spoken to enough because we kind of have this assumption around pleasure and sex that if if I start touching my chest in a specific way, and if I'm supposed to find that pleasurable, I'll instantly find it pleasurable.
00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:40.960
I'll instantly feel that it's almost orgasmic.
00:38:41.119 --> 00:38:41.840
Absolutely not.
00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:44.159
It's a process that builds and builds and builds.
00:38:44.480 --> 00:38:49.280
So if, like yourself, you're noticing, okay, that's maybe something I could practice.
00:38:49.519 --> 00:38:54.000
Expect to be bored, basically, and it's learning to be with that boredom.
00:38:54.159 --> 00:39:10.400
That boredom can bring up a wealth of emotional experience as well, which is why lots of people avoid the boredom because it's sitting with yourself in discomfort if it shows something, but it is that misconception of oh, I mustn't enjoy that.
00:39:10.880 --> 00:39:18.800
Yeah, and reading your material last night and things, I definitely need to make more space for pleasure in terms of just self-touch.
00:39:19.039 --> 00:39:27.119
And I I notice, you know, I've been processing grief the past three years and the impact that's had on my libido, which is just natural, right?
00:39:27.280 --> 00:39:37.440
And I notice when I'm in alignment, you know, the this the want to touch myself or have pleasure is there, and then when I'm and when I'm loathing, that's gone, right?
00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:39.760
And it's just a sign that we need to take care of ourselves.
00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:46.880
So yeah, you've definitely motivated me to come back to a pleasure practice without chasing orgasm.
00:39:47.199 --> 00:39:48.639
I'm curious about lube.
00:39:49.039 --> 00:39:53.599
Lube's never been something that I know much about or ever used.
00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:54.800
What do you think it is?
00:39:54.880 --> 00:39:57.519
Something that people should explore, or what's your thoughts?
00:39:57.760 --> 00:39:58.320
Absolutely.
00:39:58.400 --> 00:40:06.639
So I think lube is actually I love lube because it's a really good entry point.
00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:23.440
You know, if you've never used any sexual wellness products, lube is brilliant because it it adds, especially if you're practicing that diversity, diversification of touch, it adds a different texture, so you have a completely different touch experience.
00:40:23.599 --> 00:40:27.519
So it's actually it just makes it easier, basically.
00:40:27.840 --> 00:40:48.239
And I believe if you're touching vulvas, whether it's someone else's or your own, always have lube on hand because it's just gonna up the sensory experience, and you can get some really beautiful oil-based lubricants, which you can't use with condoms.
00:40:48.320 --> 00:40:52.719
So if you need to use condoms, don't mix that with oil, please.
00:40:52.880 --> 00:41:08.159
But you can get some really beautiful oils that are actually really supportive of arousal in the vulva, so it's more warming, so it brings in that blood flow, and that it's it's genius, essentially.
00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:16.000
I love products that really work with our anatomy and female bodies rather than like trying to rush them in a specific way.
00:41:16.239 --> 00:41:20.079
So that is something, especially for self-pleasure.
00:41:20.320 --> 00:41:28.159
Adding something like that in means that you naturally will take longer because you need to work it into your skin.
00:41:28.480 --> 00:41:41.280
Okay, that's really interesting because again, the course I did in ballet, it was very, you know, bastardizing sex toys and oh, you should be wet enough, basically, that you don't need lube.
00:41:41.519 --> 00:41:43.440
There is that narrative out there as well.
00:41:43.679 --> 00:41:45.360
Some old school practitioners.
00:41:45.679 --> 00:41:48.639
Yeah, and that, you know, that can change.
00:41:48.719 --> 00:42:01.760
There's a there's a few things to say in that, in the fact that if you're engaging with your vulva or vaginal tissue on a regular basis, you will find yourself getting wetter naturally, right?
00:42:01.920 --> 00:42:04.320
Because you're looking after your tissue, that's how it works.
00:42:04.400 --> 00:42:09.599
So that's why it's a really good practice to get into before you move into perimenopause.
00:42:09.679 --> 00:42:14.000
A menopause, for example, when lubrication becomes trickier.
00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:19.440
For some women, though, you know, lubrication isn't a sign of arousal.
00:42:19.519 --> 00:42:27.840
And actually, the puffiness of the vulva, the engorgement of tissue, is a far more dependable signifier of arousal.
00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:34.239
And again, that just leads women to feeling like their bodies aren't working properly.
00:42:34.480 --> 00:42:38.719
And if there's anything that's going to flatline your desire, it's that.
00:42:38.960 --> 00:42:42.800
And there's so much shame around vulvas and what they look like, right?
00:42:42.960 --> 00:42:50.960
There's that, I suppose that's just that porn narrative we've been fed, which is so damaging for how we feel about ourselves and towards our vulvas.
00:42:51.519 --> 00:42:51.920
100%.
00:42:52.159 --> 00:43:02.400
And this is it, you know, not only do they look like Barbie vulvas in porn, but they're also like gushing gallons of water, right?
00:43:03.440 --> 00:43:06.480
So it's like, oh fuck, am I supposed to be doing that?
00:43:06.719 --> 00:43:08.000
No, you're not.
00:43:08.239 --> 00:43:13.440
It's it we need, and this is you know, back to our earlier conversation about sex work.
00:43:14.079 --> 00:43:26.719
We need to be able to see real depictions of real bodies in pleasure to see how they function, because it's not that that's like the hyped up action version of it.
00:43:26.880 --> 00:43:28.639
They're like stunt performers.
00:43:29.440 --> 00:43:39.519
And is this part of the intention with the Volva Gazing workshops in terms of exploring what different Volvas look like, or talk about more about that?
00:43:39.679 --> 00:43:45.119
I know Emily's got a big reaction on the internet, so tell us more what's happened.
00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:48.000
You get so shadow banned, I feel so bad for you.
00:43:48.079 --> 00:43:48.800
It's ridiculous.
00:43:49.519 --> 00:43:50.239
Do you know what?
00:43:50.400 --> 00:43:52.159
It's I'm used to it now.
00:43:52.239 --> 00:43:53.679
It's actually ridiculous.
00:43:53.920 --> 00:43:55.760
It's beyond belief, actually.
00:43:55.840 --> 00:43:59.679
Like a huge account, Belessa got their account deleted for using the word clitor.
00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:07.920
Whereas if you compare the censorship of female bodies to the censorship of male bodies, it's completely disproportionate.
00:44:08.079 --> 00:44:09.440
It's absolutely horrifying.
00:44:09.760 --> 00:44:16.800
But yes, I held a Volvegain workshop actually on Mother's Day, which I didn't realise at the time.
00:44:17.039 --> 00:44:20.559
And it was a really, really brilliant workshop.
00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:24.800
And it's funny because this is the most normal thing in the world for me now.
00:44:24.880 --> 00:44:27.679
Like I do vulva gasing sessions with clients.
00:44:27.920 --> 00:44:30.559
Do you mean that she that they would look into a mirror?
00:44:30.800 --> 00:44:32.000
And you and yeah, okay.
00:44:32.159 --> 00:44:33.039
Yeah, absolutely.
00:44:33.280 --> 00:44:38.559
So it might be that we're on the table and I'm just basically sat beside.
00:44:38.800 --> 00:44:46.159
And it's it's a really beautiful dynamic because it I almost feel like a big sister at times.
00:44:46.400 --> 00:44:48.400
Actually, it just feels really normalizing.
00:44:48.639 --> 00:44:53.119
And you know, it'll give this woman the opportunity to look at her vulva and to say, What is that?
00:44:53.199 --> 00:44:53.840
What's this bit?
00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:54.639
What's this bit?
00:44:54.719 --> 00:44:55.599
Is this normal?
00:44:55.760 --> 00:45:00.559
And I can just sit there and chatter through it, and it's like, oh great, okay, fab.
00:45:00.880 --> 00:45:08.800
And it's the most beautiful thing when a woman comes in and has feelings of disgust towards her vulva.
00:45:09.199 --> 00:45:18.800
And then when you see her looking in the mirror and you can see she's curious, you know, she's no longer disgusted, and she wants to see more and she wants to learn, she has questions.
00:45:19.119 --> 00:45:29.920
That switch is so transformative for how women can experience overall life and confidence in their bodies and pleasure.
00:45:30.400 --> 00:45:31.039
Yeah.
00:45:31.440 --> 00:45:36.000
How can you have pleasure from something that you have disgust towards?
00:45:36.719 --> 00:45:39.599
Cancels each other out 100%.
00:45:40.559 --> 00:45:43.039
And what is the dynamic then in the group follow?
00:45:43.280 --> 00:45:45.039
How does that work in the workshop?
00:45:45.280 --> 00:46:15.039
So, what I wanted to do was bring what I'm already doing into a group space, really, to have it as it's you can the effectiveness of doing things as a collective can just sometimes, and I'm sure you know this yourself with the groups that you do, but it's almost like it just speeds things up, it's it accelerates it at points to see other people in their experience.
00:46:15.440 --> 00:46:21.519
I think that you can only access those deeper levels of healing in community like that.
00:46:21.679 --> 00:46:26.159
It just brings things to the surface that I just I don't believe you can access alone.
00:46:26.639 --> 00:46:28.480
It's just the way we were designed, right?
00:46:28.639 --> 00:46:29.840
Yeah, and it's fascinating.
00:46:29.920 --> 00:46:33.440
And the thing is, so many women, you know, and it's set up.
00:46:33.519 --> 00:46:59.519
I did it in my studio, and it was six women, and loads of tea, nice snacks, everyone's in their long flowy dresses, and everyone's got their own individual mirror, and you know, we chat about the experiences that we've had as women with our bodies, any messaging we feel like we've carried any difficulties with you know medicalization of our bodies, things like that.
00:46:59.760 --> 00:47:10.480
And then we look at our vulvas, and it was funny because, and this is the same with my holistic pelvic care sessions, which is one-on-one vulva and vaginal work.
00:47:10.719 --> 00:47:12.719
That was just on my mind there, yeah.
00:47:13.039 --> 00:47:18.239
Women will come to those sessions feeling like, oh, this is gonna be a really emotional thing for me, right?
00:47:18.320 --> 00:47:29.360
This is gonna be a really edgy thing for me to do, and actually, the the most common experience I have is that women are saying, This feels like the most normal thing in the world, right?
00:47:29.599 --> 00:47:47.440
Oh right, and it does, you know, when we're all sat in this workshop, legs splayed open, women were just saying, I it feels like we're supposed to do this, and you know, you're laughing, and one woman was saying something about her vulva, and then everyone clapped for it.
00:47:47.519 --> 00:47:52.239
It was just like beautiful and really innocent and normal, right?
00:47:52.400 --> 00:47:54.320
Because our bodies are normal.
00:47:54.639 --> 00:48:06.719
Women have, you know, over all of our history, have seen each other's bodies like that because we've been closer in community, like birth, all of these life processes.
00:48:06.960 --> 00:48:16.320
It's not normal to hide yourself and be completely contained and internalized, and it's not good for you, right?
00:48:16.480 --> 00:48:24.880
So it's funny how the response that I got to that, Carla, somehow I ended on conservative America's algorithm.
00:48:27.199 --> 00:48:28.320
That is so funny.
00:48:28.559 --> 00:48:30.960
I was like, How did I get here?
00:48:31.199 --> 00:48:41.039
So funny, it was tickling me, like, because I was just like I was saying to my partner, this is just the most normal thing in the world to me that I forget.
00:48:41.280 --> 00:48:45.199
You know, I'll mention, like, oh yeah, I'm doing this, and people were kind of like, What?
00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:56.079
I feel like a lot of the people like I live I'm living in London at the minute, so I don't feel it'd be that big a thing here, but I think Belfast would have absolute kittens.
00:48:56.159 --> 00:49:02.480
Although the biggest response I got to the question box last night was get Emily to do workshops in Belfast.
00:49:03.119 --> 00:49:04.400
That was the biggest response.
00:49:04.800 --> 00:49:08.159
Well, there may be one coming soon, actually.
00:49:08.400 --> 00:49:08.639
Yeah.
00:49:08.880 --> 00:49:11.119
It's so do you know what it always is though?
00:49:11.280 --> 00:49:15.920
It's finding venues because in Edinburgh, actually, that's a huge issue.
00:49:16.079 --> 00:49:37.760
Edinburgh is a very prudish city, and it's there's a lot of shame, even in venues wanting to be associated with me, which you know it does my head in, obviously, because it's a huge barrier, but it also feels like there's a sense that people just don't take it seriously.
00:49:38.719 --> 00:49:41.360
Yeah, because it can have that response, right?
00:49:41.440 --> 00:49:44.320
Like, oh, look what she's doing, and all that sort of crack.
00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:45.679
I'm sure you must get that a lot.
00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:58.159
Oh, people must think I think I'm an absolute header, but I do think like my old teachers and stuff must just think, oh what the fuck?
00:49:59.039 --> 00:50:03.599
I I I like to credit to you, it does take some serious.
00:50:03.679 --> 00:50:23.840
I'm gonna use the word cunt to do this work and to be ahead of the times and the trend, because there's not many people who are doing this, and so you should definitely feel proud of yourself, and it's not it's not easy because even some things I've wanted to talk about and do, you know, you definitely feel that restriction.
00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:28.159
You know, I have three brothers who would be like, Fuck's sake, Carlo, what are you doing?
00:50:28.400 --> 00:50:30.719
You know, and it's it really does hold you back.
00:50:30.880 --> 00:50:32.880
You try not to let it, but it it does.
00:50:33.119 --> 00:50:33.679
That's it.
00:50:33.840 --> 00:50:38.559
You just but the thing is, it's just if you can do it, you've gotta do it.
00:50:38.880 --> 00:50:44.079
Because the biggest response to it is, oh my god, I'm so glad you brought this up.
00:50:44.159 --> 00:50:55.599
You know, it gets to the point where at parties and stuff, I just don't mention it because there's only so many times I can be stuck in a corner here and about people's sex lives after I've done it nine to five.
00:50:56.079 --> 00:51:02.079
Yeah, I I don't I when people are like I I have trauma, I'm like, I don't I have no harm.
00:51:02.239 --> 00:51:03.840
Don't want to know, don't wanna know.
00:51:03.920 --> 00:51:06.159
I don't care that you want to start start yoga either.
00:51:06.400 --> 00:51:09.039
I don't and mean this in any kindness to anybody.
00:51:09.119 --> 00:51:14.000
I just it's not the conversation I want to have, especially trauma after a few drinks, do you know?
00:51:14.639 --> 00:51:17.280
And people love to talk about trauma after a few drinks.
00:51:17.360 --> 00:51:20.719
I'm like, learn to talk about it without swallowing, you please.
00:51:20.960 --> 00:51:23.679
Yeah, a hundred percent, hundred percent.
00:51:23.840 --> 00:51:26.079
Um and system is human sex, right?
00:51:26.159 --> 00:51:30.400
Too you need a bit of Dutch courage to to have these conversations, yeah.
00:51:30.559 --> 00:51:31.360
And that's it.
00:51:31.519 --> 00:51:35.840
It's it's butter and lubing people up for it.
00:51:35.920 --> 00:51:42.159
It's they do need to do that, and a lot of people, even to have sex, always say, you know, oh, I need a big glass of wine.
00:51:42.320 --> 00:51:48.239
Like we're really like it's it's difficult for people.
00:51:48.639 --> 00:51:55.920
Where I really don't really I notice how alcohol dampens my experience with sex, and I'm really not into it.
00:51:56.079 --> 00:52:01.519
It's just it's a fraction of what I can feel if I don't have any alcohol in me.
00:52:01.760 --> 00:52:15.199
Yeah, and that's a really good thing for people to hear because for a lot of people it's the inhibition that they want, and they're not actually focused on feeling, they're focused on their ability to do it.
00:52:15.599 --> 00:52:17.519
Yeah, which is so sad, isn't it?
00:52:17.679 --> 00:52:22.400
And definitely something that's so great that your work's helping shift this and heal this.
00:52:22.639 --> 00:52:26.800
And I want you to share about your holistic pelvic therapy.
00:52:27.360 --> 00:52:29.519
Because I first heard well, this is similar, right?
00:52:29.679 --> 00:52:35.440
Uni massage is what I first heard it as years ago, and I thought that was so out there then.
00:52:35.519 --> 00:52:39.280
And I've I've never had it yet, but I'm definitely curious.
00:52:40.159 --> 00:52:49.360
It's really, really beautiful work, and I think holistic pelvic care is so that's Tammy Lynn Kent's body of work.
00:52:49.599 --> 00:52:58.000
So if anyone's interested in it, she's written a really good book, Wild Feminine, which is really helpful for anyone wanting to start self-care practice.
00:52:58.239 --> 00:53:08.320
I would suggest all women start self-care practice because, in terms of how to support our pelvises just to function healthily, we need to touch them.
00:53:08.480 --> 00:53:12.400
Like that there's no way of going about it, basically.
00:53:12.639 --> 00:53:18.639
Kegels aren't all that in terms of public health ladies, so you need to be doing something else.
00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:41.440
And why I really love holistic health care is because I did my somatic sexology training first, and you know, there's tantra wrapped up in that really conscious sexuality, and within that training, it was more so approaching the body, it felt more spiritual, which doesn't really align with my practice at all.
00:53:41.760 --> 00:53:49.119
And you know, even the style of it, it's more like erotic massage work, which is really great work.
00:53:49.440 --> 00:53:53.760
It does again, I don't see myself in that in terms of offering.
00:53:53.840 --> 00:53:56.559
I don't see that in the kind of clients that I'm attracting.
00:53:56.719 --> 00:54:27.280
So I wanted a bit more in-depth training in terms of what's the actual physical treatment in working with the vagina, and how can I approach that in a way that is, yeah, it's it should be a relaxing treatment because to be able to achieve relaxation while experiencing pelvic massage, that's really good learning for your body, number one, but that's also at the same time very educational and has space for any kind of emotional component for women.
00:54:27.440 --> 00:54:33.440
So holistic pelvic card tick the boxes basically because Tammy was a physical therapist, first of all.
00:54:33.679 --> 00:54:38.079
So she has that wealth of information that you need when you're touching vaginas.
00:54:38.639 --> 00:54:50.000
And then she really created the modality because there wasn't enough space for the emotional component of pelvic work in physical therapy, which is understandable.
00:54:50.079 --> 00:54:52.079
Like you can't do everything, right?
00:54:52.239 --> 00:55:11.599
So holistic pelvic care is it's a beneficial physical treatment for any woman, for what it does work in with your fashion, how that impacts your pelvic organs, how it impacts your experience of sex, your sensitivity, your immune system, but it also works with how you relate with your pelvis on an emotional level.
00:55:11.840 --> 00:55:27.599
If there's any aspects that feel numb, if there's any areas that feel painful, if there is boundary repair that needs happening, there's loads of scope for it, and every single treatment is completely different.
00:55:27.760 --> 00:55:34.719
What shows up for every woman is completely different, and what women take from it is completely different, and it's fascinating.
00:55:35.039 --> 00:55:36.000
I'm sure it is.
00:55:36.239 --> 00:55:41.360
My imagination around it is just random emotions coming up.
00:55:41.440 --> 00:55:43.039
Is that a common experience?
00:55:43.360 --> 00:55:55.599
Yeah, it can be where if I'm mapping out trigger points and if there's a specific area of pain, and you know, throughout, I'm I'm really guided by a woman and how she's approaching it.
00:55:55.679 --> 00:56:00.239
Because if a woman doesn't want to approach it from an emotional lens, I'm not going to hone in on that.
00:56:00.320 --> 00:56:03.599
But if the body wants to show it up, that's a different, you know, the body leads.
00:56:03.840 --> 00:56:08.960
But it it is that ongoing inquiry of how are you experiencing that?
00:56:09.119 --> 00:56:29.280
And sometimes it can be, oh, there's a sadness, and you know yourself from somatic work, the beauty of it is that we don't need to analyze it, it's just making space for it, being with it, and inquiring what does that sadness need, and being able to do that through the body lends itself then to physical release work.
00:56:29.599 --> 00:56:30.000
Yeah.
00:56:30.239 --> 00:56:32.320
Do you believe vaginas can be depressed?
00:56:32.480 --> 00:56:34.639
You know, like out of sex in the city.
00:56:35.519 --> 00:56:37.840
I do know what probably, yeah.
00:56:38.079 --> 00:56:49.360
Like if you think about, you know, if you have a friend that you blatantly ignore, how is that person gonna feel?
00:56:49.599 --> 00:56:54.800
And it's exactly the same as your vagina, which is a really intelligent part of the body.
00:56:54.960 --> 00:57:00.960
And you know, some women will sometimes say to me, I can't feel anything, that doesn't work for me.
00:57:01.039 --> 00:57:13.440
And I will say, you are literally snapping your fingers, your vagina, like do something, and it's like that's not a nice way to approach anyone.
00:57:13.519 --> 00:57:15.360
Why are you approaching your body like that?
00:57:15.599 --> 00:57:21.519
You need to work with your body, it's a collaboration rather than like dance for me kind of thing.
00:57:21.679 --> 00:57:30.960
Why would she cooperate with you when you berate her, ignore her, pretend you're experiencing pleasure when you're not?
00:57:31.119 --> 00:57:34.000
It's literally like conflict, conflict, conflict.
00:57:34.239 --> 00:57:42.800
Yeah, and let's talk about that faking the orgasm, how detrimental it is for our own orgasm and connection to our body.
00:57:43.119 --> 00:57:46.159
It's yeah, it's funny because people do it.
00:57:46.960 --> 00:58:00.320
Time is a huge factor of why people do it, because maybe they feel that taking the time required for orgasm to happen is too indulgent, and they'll maybe say, This is too much time to be focused on me.
00:58:00.480 --> 00:58:04.480
I'm gonna pretend to orgasm now, so then I can shift focus, right?
00:58:05.039 --> 00:58:19.760
And that is not helpful because if you're doing that in a partnered context, you're giving your partner unreliable data essentially as to what you find pleasurable, as to what your body does require.
00:58:19.840 --> 00:58:25.920
And the female body requires more time because there's a lot more processes that happen for us.
00:58:26.239 --> 00:58:29.519
So you're not at fault if you require that time.
00:58:29.599 --> 00:58:35.920
It's perfectly normal and beautiful things happen when you practice to take the time.
00:58:36.320 --> 00:58:43.280
The other thing is is not wanting to appear as if you don't know what brings you pleasure, right?
00:58:43.360 --> 00:58:51.199
So it's I'm gonna pretend, I'm gonna orgasm, I'm gonna pretend orgasm, because if someone asks me, well, what do you want?
00:58:51.280 --> 00:58:52.320
How do you like to be touched?
00:58:52.400 --> 00:58:57.440
And the answer is, I don't have a clue, I don't want to appear inexperienced, right?
00:58:57.599 --> 00:59:05.599
So that that's related to performance and how we feel, well, I should sexually perform in this way and pretend.
00:59:06.320 --> 00:59:08.480
Yeah, I think that's a big thing, isn't it?
00:59:08.639 --> 00:59:11.360
That conditioning and it comes from porn, right?
00:59:11.440 --> 00:59:34.639
And it's so yeah, it's so it's so deep in terms of that performing for men in sex, which it just feels it really, really annoy it annoys me, it makes me sad, and it also it disconnects us from our bodies and disconnects you from your partner because our bodies know when we're hanging, their brain might register, but his body will, or whoever you're sleeping with.
00:59:35.199 --> 00:59:37.920
And this is it, it's it's incongruence, right?
00:59:38.000 --> 00:59:47.119
So if you want to be attuned to your partner, but you are performing something or faking something, it's like what's going on here?
00:59:47.280 --> 01:00:19.760
It's not helpful for the overall connection to either to yourself, your own body, or another person's body, and your body may show up symptoms such as a low libido, issues with arousal if you keep faking it, because your body's gonna start screaming at you if you're doing that on a long-term basis, which a lot of women are doing, and I think the most recent statistic is something like 80%, 60% to 80% of women fake orgasms.
01:00:19.920 --> 01:00:23.760
So is this in heterosexual relationships or just across the board heterosexual relationship?
01:00:23.840 --> 01:00:24.880
Heterosexual, yeah.
01:00:24.960 --> 01:00:28.719
Generally speaking, statistics show that lesbians are having the best sex.
01:00:29.119 --> 01:00:33.440
Yeah, they're having their orgasms, they're just like, what are you doing?
01:00:34.320 --> 01:00:36.400
Literally, and I think that's interesting.
01:00:36.480 --> 01:00:39.039
Again, that's just the power dynamic though, isn't it?
01:00:39.519 --> 01:00:43.280
This what needing to feel that you have to fulfill something for him.
01:00:43.519 --> 01:00:53.519
It will never cease to amaze me, you know what people base so much of their sexual experience on an erect penis, right?
01:00:53.679 --> 01:00:57.760
So, number one, if there's an erect penis in the room, I have to do something with it, right?
01:00:57.840 --> 01:01:00.719
It's like call to attention, number one.
01:01:00.960 --> 01:01:09.679
Number two, we need to make things happen while the penis is still erect, because what a disaster if that erection goes away.
01:01:09.920 --> 01:01:18.480
So everything, well, a lot of the times in a heterosexual relationship, things are dictated by an erect penis.
01:01:19.840 --> 01:01:24.320
And I this is the thing about erect penises, they're very like, look at me, everybody.
01:01:24.639 --> 01:01:25.360
You know what they do.
01:01:26.320 --> 01:01:26.960
Yeah.
01:01:27.760 --> 01:01:30.239
That's why some people find them very like affronting, right?
01:01:30.320 --> 01:01:34.719
Or like they can be quite aggressive compared to a lovely hidden vulva.
01:01:35.119 --> 01:01:36.159
Well, this is the thing.
01:01:36.320 --> 01:01:46.559
I think learning to not respond to an erect penis is a very liberating thing because it is that can be a really subconscious thing as well.
01:01:46.639 --> 01:01:50.320
Of like, oh, my partner's aroused, I have to do something.
01:01:50.480 --> 01:01:56.639
No, it can be a really wonderful thing for your partner as well to just be with their arousal, right?
01:01:56.800 --> 01:02:01.280
Because a lot of the time, arousal can feel like oh, like he's aroused, it's a burden.
01:02:01.440 --> 01:02:05.519
Just be with him, don't do anything, relax.
01:02:05.760 --> 01:02:06.239
What do you mean?
01:02:06.320 --> 01:02:08.639
Like, don't kiss him, don't touch him, nothing.
01:02:08.960 --> 01:02:13.840
Well, you know, if you want to engage in physical intimacy, that's great.
01:02:14.000 --> 01:02:16.480
You don't have to then lead on and lead on.
01:02:16.559 --> 01:02:22.320
It's when we get into that habitual script that where it always leads into penetration, right?
01:02:22.400 --> 01:02:22.639
Yeah.
01:02:22.800 --> 01:02:25.599
Or oral sex or something of those.
01:02:25.760 --> 01:02:26.159
Yeah.
01:02:26.400 --> 01:02:26.719
Yeah.
01:02:26.960 --> 01:02:28.159
That makes sense.
01:02:28.400 --> 01:02:30.239
Yeah, I never thought about it like that.
01:02:30.559 --> 01:02:32.320
Erect penis, she must smooth.
01:02:32.480 --> 01:02:43.280
But I have definitely had partners where it's there's definitely been that energy of like, you know, well, I need this or I want this, and just that old conditioning that has been about.
01:02:43.599 --> 01:02:44.000
100%.
01:02:44.400 --> 01:02:50.079
And you know, it's that blue balls territory, which that I roll completely.
01:02:50.320 --> 01:03:06.159
And in terms of our physiology and nerve endings, women have the exact same experience, but we are not putting it on to people in a coercive manner because that's not acceptable behaviour, it's not a physical issue.
01:03:06.480 --> 01:03:28.639
When we look at the history of sex in terms of you know, our grandparents' generation where she couldn't say no in marriage, you know, rape didn't exist in marriage, and we're all healing that men and women across the board, and it's not a long time in a hundred years for that conditioning to completely be healed in men where they don't demand sex from women.
01:03:28.800 --> 01:03:30.079
It's very much still here.
01:03:30.400 --> 01:03:34.639
Marital rape was only made legal in 1996.
01:03:35.360 --> 01:03:36.480
It's insane.
01:03:36.880 --> 01:03:40.960
Yeah, because divorce is only available in 1991, wasn't it, or something like that?
01:03:42.000 --> 01:03:55.599
So you're right, that is the condition that we carry, and that we are having to actively deprogram because it's not relevant, it should not be relevant, it should never have been relevant.
01:03:55.840 --> 01:04:02.159
But how do we help men who this is I was thinking about this when I was reading uh across your website?
01:04:02.400 --> 01:04:16.880
How do we help men who have that condition and you know, who, you know, they're noticing that that they're pushing themselves on women, or they're have that, you know, I have to be having sex all the time or sleeping with a lot of women?
01:04:17.119 --> 01:04:18.159
And how do they shift?
01:04:18.239 --> 01:04:19.360
Like, is there hope for them?
01:04:19.599 --> 01:04:22.400
Because really what we need to do is younger, right?
01:04:22.480 --> 01:04:27.760
We need to reach men really young, young boys, we need to be educating them the same as women.
01:04:28.079 --> 01:04:32.400
Is there hope for men who are in their 30s or 40s who have that?
01:04:33.280 --> 01:04:37.440
I think there is, but it takes personal responsibility in the first place.
01:04:37.519 --> 01:04:47.119
So the same sentiment goes for if someone's struggling with addiction, you can't help someone until they decide that they want to change, right?
01:04:47.679 --> 01:04:57.440
And that is infuriating because we all know the benefit that it would have to individual men and then us on a collective level.
01:04:58.000 --> 01:05:04.880
Honestly, it's education, that's the only way it can happen, and it's that overhaul.
01:05:05.199 --> 01:05:14.079
And there's really interest in organizations that whenever I was doing my master's, I was looking into this research and I was fascinated by it.
01:05:14.320 --> 01:05:16.719
They go on in the global south, right?
01:05:16.960 --> 01:05:26.960
So in Africa, in India, where female-led organizations go into universities and find spokespeople.
01:05:27.199 --> 01:05:39.280
So they get men essentially, they train men, so it's women only training men, and then men facilitate the education because men are more likely to listen to and respect other men.
01:05:39.440 --> 01:05:41.039
And I find that really interesting.
01:05:41.119 --> 01:05:42.000
It was very effective.
01:05:42.159 --> 01:05:49.920
I can't remember the name of it, but the thing that fascinated me the most was that why is that only happening in those areas of the world?
01:05:50.079 --> 01:05:54.239
Because there is this kind of belief that, oh, gender inequality is a big issue over there.
01:05:54.480 --> 01:05:59.599
Gender inequality is a huge problem on this side of the world, and we pretend.
01:06:00.079 --> 01:06:09.119
That it's not because we take an economic perspective to gender equality rather than a social focused one on quality of life.
01:06:09.360 --> 01:06:21.840
I think that would be an amazing model for actually targeting men because men are statistically most likely to perpetrate violence again and again and again and again and again.
01:06:22.000 --> 01:06:29.199
But it's it's a complete overhaul of everything because even the justice system, everything is set up in favor of perpetrators.
01:06:30.480 --> 01:06:31.119
Yeah.
01:06:32.239 --> 01:06:34.079
Oh god, there's so much work to do.
01:06:34.320 --> 01:06:38.480
I could talk to you all day, but I have taken up a lot of your time.
01:06:38.719 --> 01:06:42.000
Where can people find you and how can people work with you?
01:06:42.320 --> 01:06:45.039
So you can find me on Instagram.
01:06:45.119 --> 01:06:52.400
So it's just Emily King Therapy, and then my website is exactly the same, www.emlekingtherapy.com.
01:06:52.559 --> 01:06:56.000
And you can work with me as like a one-to-one.
01:06:56.400 --> 01:07:05.840
I've started doing I work in an ongoing sense with a lot of clients who have more long-term issues and barriers around sex.
01:07:06.159 --> 01:07:10.079
And I've also started doing intensives, which work really well.
01:07:10.239 --> 01:07:22.639
So an intensive session is more so for those people who maybe want a sex toy consultation if you feel overwhelmed with no one what to buy, or you have some really specific thing that doesn't require ongoing work.
01:07:22.800 --> 01:07:26.400
That's also available to couples, which can work beautifully.
01:07:26.559 --> 01:07:30.960
I love doing those, and ongoing couples work is available as well.
01:07:31.199 --> 01:07:34.960
And I'm always developing workshops and things like that.
01:07:35.039 --> 01:07:38.400
So I might pop up around Belfast at some stage.
01:07:38.880 --> 01:07:39.119
Definitely.
01:07:39.679 --> 01:07:41.840
But you can definitely do something in London as well.
01:07:42.159 --> 01:07:42.960
Thousand percent.
01:07:43.519 --> 01:07:45.039
Do you work online as well?
01:07:45.440 --> 01:07:46.480
In person, yeah.
01:07:46.639 --> 01:07:55.760
So I work in person from Edinburgh, and there are intensive sessions available if you want to travel for touch-focused work.
01:07:55.920 --> 01:07:56.880
People do that.
01:07:57.119 --> 01:07:59.440
And I work remotely as well.
01:07:59.760 --> 01:08:02.639
So I can you can get me from anywhere, basically.
01:08:02.960 --> 01:08:03.679
That's great.
01:08:03.840 --> 01:08:06.800
And is there anything like majority of my listeners are women?
01:08:06.960 --> 01:08:11.519
I have a few scattered men listening in a few days, but majority women.
01:08:11.760 --> 01:08:16.560
What what practice would you love them that they could do this weekend for pleasure?
01:08:16.960 --> 01:08:21.439
I think start talking to a friend about it, right?
01:08:22.079 --> 01:08:36.800
Because yeah, you can look at diversifying touch, you can look at getting a nice oil and massage in your vulva, or you can initiate a conversation and see how that inspires you, right?
01:08:37.039 --> 01:08:45.119
Because as you say, so many amazing things happen when you experience things in a community.
01:08:45.359 --> 01:08:47.520
So start talking basically.
01:08:47.760 --> 01:08:54.479
Yeah, and I definitely I noticed that in some of my friends who I am shook, I am 30 and they don't have a vibrator.
01:08:54.640 --> 01:08:56.000
I'm like, come on.
01:08:56.479 --> 01:09:00.640
Like I think those are important, you know, conversations about masturbation.
01:09:00.720 --> 01:09:06.880
And even if they go quiet, at least you know, you're starting to spiral the waves and plant the seed, isn't it?
01:09:07.039 --> 01:09:07.359
Mm-hmm.
01:09:07.520 --> 01:09:08.079
That's it.
01:09:08.720 --> 01:09:23.359
And that can be such a brilliant gift, not only for yourself, but for other people to be able to, oh, it can prompt so much, and it has that ripple effect, which I love.
01:09:23.520 --> 01:09:25.680
I love hearing about the ripple effect.
01:09:26.000 --> 01:09:31.680
Yeah, because they mightn't, yeah, they they mightn't masturbate an eye, but in a few months' time, who knows what could happen.
01:09:32.000 --> 01:09:32.640
Exactly.
01:09:32.880 --> 01:09:33.439
Exactly.
01:09:33.680 --> 01:09:38.960
Well, thank you so much, and hopefully I'll get to meet you in 3D very, very soon.
01:09:39.279 --> 01:09:49.520
I hope you enjoyed that episode as much as what I did, and I hope you're gonna make some time for self touch masturbation, pleasure, and to not taste the big oh.
01:09:50.000 --> 01:09:52.159
Thank you so much for joining us today.
01:09:52.239 --> 01:09:57.199
I'm so grateful to have your wheat ears, and I hope to have them again next week.