S1 E16 Gentleness

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Darling, why'd you go and listen?
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They ain't got nothing good to say.
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Now there's so much life you're missing.
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So-called friends led you astray.
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You know the devil keeps us company.
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With all this bright and shiny things. I don't
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know if I like the word, you know. What other words do you not like?
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I think it's misinterpreted because no one's using
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that word. You're gonna be viewed as weak. So I know a lot of people
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don't like the word moist. So that's— I don't care about that.
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No, you don't have a word you hate?
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I don't hate meat like that. Like, it doesn't— the people
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with the moist, they're like, ew, they get cringed out or something. I know,
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I don't even understand. Maybe I just— there's other words
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too, like, uh, man, I used to— it's
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moist. There's like— do you have a hard time spelling
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certain words? I have a hard time just spelling. Spelling in general?
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Yeah. Uh, who said it? Casey, you said in Sunday school,
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I got, I got enough problems with the English language. Yeah, I'm still trying to
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learn. Yeah, yeah, the, the gift of, uh, speaking in tongues I have
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not been blessed with because I have trouble enough with English.
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Yeah, well,
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it's been a long week. Are we starting
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or— yeah, let's, we'll start there.
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It's fine with me. It's good. Why has it been a long week?
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God has been testing me on this right here— gentleness.
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Yeah, yeah. I feel like, you know, when you said, God, help me be patient,
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and you pray for that, and then what's God going to do? He's going to
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give you instances to be patient. I didn't pray for helping to be
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gentle. So this past week, I feel like
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I've had to be very gentle, and God's taught me through it and
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just with that patience as well and just, yeah, kind of
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tiring and weak. Yep. And when you're tired,
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I don't want to be gentle. Yeah. I want to be short and snappy.
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And I, I have been a little bit. I've been,
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I don't know if test is the right word, but it's,
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yeah, tempted to be short and with my girls, with Kennedy,
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just like Come on everybody, let's go, like, help me out. I'm one
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man banding it, I feel like. Yeah, I know I'm not. I got a lot
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of help. But, um, no, but you've had to pick up all
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the slack. Kennedy's got some health issues going on and you've had to carry
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the load completely when you're used to sharing it. And then, yeah,
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I think Lily's been hard, right? Lily has been— she's responding
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to it in a, yeah, in a unique way as only
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Lily could, you know, hitting people at school and having accidents
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and screaming and throwing fits. It's been— and it's
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been a hard week with her just emotionally. Isn't that crazy how with like—
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our handyman's like right above us somewhere right now,
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uh, stomping around. I don't know if that's even picked up on the audio,
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but I hear it. I hear it. Uh,
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it's crazy how kids pick up on that kind of stuff, you know,
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like when there's stress and there's difficulty and
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strife, like kids respond to that. Like a sixth sense.
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Yeah, they know, like they don't always know how to deal with that or
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how to process through it. Oh, and she doesn't know how to process her regular
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feelings, normal everyday life. So then you throw in mama's
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not feeling well and that all of a sudden becomes like, oh yeah.
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I mean, our kids do it. Our kids, especially the girls.
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Hudson, I mean I don't know if Hudson feels much of
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anything. That can be bad if you don't have
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no emotions. No, he certainly
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has emotions, but it's just very different. He doesn't pick
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up on that other people are hurting or whatever. So social
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cues. You said something earlier that I think
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is key, especially whenever we're talking about gentleness. You said,
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uh, yeah, it feels like you've got to carry the load.
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Um, but I know we're going to get into
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that, but maybe hold on to that thought. Yeah,
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the— that God's given you that ability, right, to carry
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that load, that you, you've got some
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good strong shoulders, right? So I think that's part of the
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point. Well, we're continuing on.
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Fruit of the Spirit. We are next to last. We've almost made
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it through. Almost feels like we kind of just started, and then I'm like,
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yeah, here in a few weeks I'm gonna preach this, probably one Sunday,
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and that feels daunting after, uh, after 8 weeks. I'm gonna spend
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almost 10 hours with you guys talking about the 9 words.
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Just refer them to the podcast so we get more views. Yeah, if you
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want to know more about love, well, we're not just gonna skip this part of
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the service today, just Let me send you a link right now. Right. Uh,
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you must watch them all before next week. Yeah, talk about it.
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But, uh, we're continuing on. We're at number 8,
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and then next week we'll do, uh,
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self-control, which, um, I think if
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any of them, that one is like— I don't
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know, I was gonna say hardest for me, but I think that, that, that's one
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that's always a work in progress, I feel
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like. So anyway, but today we're talking about gentleness, which has a
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lot of similarities to kindness and patience
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and some of these others as well. But let me read it just because that's
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what we've done to start every time. Galatians 5:22:
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The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy,
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peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
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gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law,
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and those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh
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with its passions and desires.
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Um, what is gentleness?
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How would you define gentleness? I think the, the biblical
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definition would definitely be— so it—
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you have to think of, you have to think of it kind of as a
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I don't know, to put it into perspective,
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if I have a choice to be gentle or not,
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then I have some sort of power or strength that
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I can use to build up or to tear down.
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So when I think about gentle, I think of, I always
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go to like the strength.
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It's like a, We always hear,
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oh, he's a gentle giant. He has a strength
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that he chooses not to use because he knows
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if he's reckless with his strength, then he'll
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destroy everything in his path. So I think in that
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nature, I think that's good.
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Harnessed power. Yeah. I wrote down strength under the
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control of the Holy Spirit. Right? Strength under control or under the control
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of the Holy Spirit. Because it's, it's not weakness.
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I think we think of it as weakness. I think it's a— maybe
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that's one of the ways the enemy of the world twists. It's definitely the
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way how, how we understand this word.
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This is not high on the priority list for men.
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I want to grow up and be gentle. I know men want
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to grow up and be strong, capable. Uh, all of that.
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So I need— I'm gonna need some Kleenex here in a sec. But yeah,
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go ahead. I think what you just said, you know, uh, men want to grow
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to be strong. I think, uh, the world does not think
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of— doesn't lump up gentleness with strength, right? And I think that if
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we look at the Bible, we look at the real truth, right? It says quite
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differently. It says the opposite. And many times as we if
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we follow God's word, we're gonna grow in
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all of these fruits of the Spirit. I think one— some that
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kind of correlate with gentleness is patience and kindness. Like, you put those 2
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together and what's produced? It's a gentle demeanor,
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attitude, and that is what a biblically strong man
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looks like. It's one thing. That's one aspect that can't be overlooked,
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and it's hard. We don't want to be meek. Don't want to
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be viewed as weak and Definitely got to be careful that you don't get walked
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over because people will. People will take advantage of you.
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And so how do you understand that with what Jesus says?
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And this, this is off the cuff, but like Jesus says,
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blessed are the meek. And then he says, when somebody
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slaps you, turn the other cheek, right?
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And if somebody asks for your cloak, give them your tunic also. So that feels
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like to me what he's saying is sometimes people are going
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to walk over you. So I don't know, I'm pushing back a
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little bit on what you just said, but, uh, how do you understand that,
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what Jesus said? I mean, yes, you're right,
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but I just read it last night and you reminded me of it.
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And, uh, in 2 Peter,
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similarly, uh, I'm just gonna read it real quick. It's a little, little section here,
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verses 18 through 21.
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We'll just read that. It says, slaves in reverent fear of God, submit yourselves
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to your masters. Do not— well, I guess let me back
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up real quick. Right before this, he's telling us to live as God's slaves,
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right underneath God. So then he goes on. This is Peter
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kind of giving some instruction. Slaves in reverent fear of God, submit yourselves
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to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate,
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but also to those who are harsh, for it is commendable someone
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bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because they are
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conscious of God. But how is it to your credit if you
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receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer
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for doing good and you endure it,
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this is commendable before God. To this you
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were called because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example that you should follow
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in his steps. So that's exactly what I just thought about. I read it last
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night. We went over that. Paul's— he kind of— I mean,
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not Paul. Peter's listing different ways here how we can live godly
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lives, and he comes to this section, and it's fairly similar to
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like, hey, you know, if someone slaps you, turn the cheek, right?
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Basically give them the other one too, right? And this is very similar if you
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get beaten or mistreated harshly, but if
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you're doing the right thing, then all the better, you know.
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Yeah, you're, you're growing in Christ. You're— if you are able to endure
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hardship for doing what is good and underneath God's name,
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um, God sees it. He notices it. Doesn't mean it's going
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to be fun or easy, but you know that you're standing to— you're rooted in
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Christ and you're not going to be, well, I better, I better just
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fall in line right here and I'm gonna— so I don't get this beat.
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No, it's, hey, fear God first and foremost
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before man. That's kind of the way I've taken it. And I don't know if
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that answered your question exactly, but yeah, I think another way to
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think about gentleness is we said strength
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under control, but it's also like wise use of strength, right?
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Wise use of our words, wise use of— because like if
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you put a football in my hands,
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there's a grip that I can put on it, a strength. I'm going to hold
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on to that dude as hard as I can, right? But if you put a
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baby in my hands. Like, I need to use some strength, but I don't
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need to grip it like a football or a, you know, my Yeti
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tumbler versus a fine china tea
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mug. You know, like, there's a different level of strength,
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and some things are more delicate and breakable than others,
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people included. Yeah. And so learning how to use
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the appropriate level of strength or force, either in
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our physical strength but also in our words,
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how we relate to them. Um, I think
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that's what— that's what he means, being gentle, right? Yeah. Not every— like
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with our wives, I think there's a passage like, uh,
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uh, maybe he doesn't use the word gentle, but I think it's 1 Peter.
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He says, husbands, live with your wives in
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an understanding way. And not be harsh with
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them, right? Because that's gentleness,
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that they are different. And I can, I can maybe look at you,
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Casey, or you, Ethan, and go,
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hey man, you need to pick it up, like you're slacking,
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and da da da da da, right? And that's going to be received in a
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certain way, man to man. There's a difference with our wives or our kids
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or, or other people in our lives, you know. And so I think learning how
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to use our words and our actions in a way that
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is under control, right, is restrained by the Spirit, is wise,
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is what he's talking about with gentleness. Now I think that this
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is a— to your point, this takes a level
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of self-awareness to be able to perceive the
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situation for what it actually is, and that's what I was saying earlier. It's more
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about perception and to understand to
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understand how I need to be in this situation.
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This is a more mature level of fruit,
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right? And this is another reason why I keep on
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doing this. It may not be, but this is the way my mind works.
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Gentleness, it's hard for us, right? This takes time.
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It's something that we struggle with as men, I think,
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more than anything, because we don't want to be seen as weak.
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And so, like you were saying, like Peter was saying,
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it's unfortunate to understand that
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life doesn't always add up
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to being gentle. I'm going to maybe
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receive gentleness back or receive respect through
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being gentle. That's not always going to be noticed.
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And then sometimes we're going to suffer for
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being gentle, right? And then Peter
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says the same thing in 1 Peter.
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The first time he says this, 1 Peter 15—
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actually, I'm gonna back up to chapter 1 or
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chapter 3. Chapter 3, verse 13, 1 Peter,
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it says, Who's going to harm you if you're eager
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to do good? Right. So I think that that's pretty much
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the outlook that we have on life. If I do
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good, if I intend to do good, then for
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the most part, there's no harm coming my way.
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But even if you should suffer for doing what is right, you are blessed.
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Do not fear their threats. Do not be frightened,
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but in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be
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prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks
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you to give reason for the hope that you have.
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But do this with gentleness and respect.
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Like, so to your point in 2
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Peter, like this, there is a way we need
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to go about life and to— how do we do that? How do we balance
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that well? And the only way we can
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do that is to have a significant
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amount of self-awareness for the situation.
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I need to deal with my children in a certain way. I need to
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deal with my wife in a certain way. I need to deal with the men
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around me, my employees, whatever it may be,
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in a certain way, but with gentleness and respect.
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So, One definition
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of meekness that, that I think
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it's Jordan Peterson or something, the way that he describes it is,
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is being dangerous. Like,
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it's a good thing. Like, we need men in our society that,
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that are tough, good men that
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can wield a sword but know when to
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use it and when not to. I was going to ask is,
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I guess, displaying gentleness always the same for every
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person? No, it's— you kind of hit on it a little bit. You got to
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know, or you said something at least that reminded me or made me think
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of like, you got to know who you're talking to. Yeah. You know, the way
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I talk to you is not the way I talk to my wife or the
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way I talk to a youth kid on a Wednesday night. Right. Like, you got
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to be aware. Scripture tells us to be, be alert,
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fully sober in mind. Right. So like,
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Knowing, don't be, uh,
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I don't know the right word to say, but it's just being, being intentional,
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being in the moment and understanding who you're around. There's an alertness there. And so,
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you know, whenever this is a tender relationship,
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you know, you got to be more gentle here. I should be more gentle with
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my kids and my wife, um, than I, than I am with my friends.
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We're hanging out, you know, shooting the bull, kind of joking around. Like, there's a,
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there's a lack of gentleness there sometimes, and that's okay.
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All You just got to know your place, um,
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and, and know who you're talking to. I think I was
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thinking about some of the ways that the world twists, uh,
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gentleness, kind of what is the, you know, the, the play on this. And it's
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not— I don't even know that the world, uh, views this as a
18:20.431 --> 18:23.237
positive or the enemy views this as a positive. He is not— it's not like
18:23.542 --> 18:26.688
love where he's like redefining it, right? It's, it's just,
18:27.828 --> 18:30.701
it's so low on the priority list, right? Um,
18:31.198 --> 18:34.555
So one, it's just not manly, right? It's viewed as a
18:35.055 --> 18:38.666
feminine, feminine trait, right? And, and I would agree in some
18:38.714 --> 18:42.552
ways. Yes, naturally, probably are more naturally
18:43.050 --> 18:47.000
gentle because they have that nurturing heart
18:47.498 --> 18:52.139
to care for others, whereas men are protectors and all
18:52.639 --> 18:56.684
of that. But I think that's one way it's twisted. Another one is
18:56.716 --> 18:59.863
basically you need to be bold. You need to
19:00.363 --> 19:03.331
be strong. You need to be harsh with your words. Say what you mean.
19:04.022 --> 19:07.297
Yeah, like no matter what they think, no matter what, no matter who
19:07.797 --> 19:11.183
you talk, no matter who you're talking to, stand on your truth. Kind of like
19:11.231 --> 19:14.362
that's, that's the priority. And you
19:14.862 --> 19:18.601
can see that's not a bad thing. It's desirable almost to seek people
19:18.697 --> 19:22.037
out like that. Yeah, we, we appreciate people that are like that.
19:22.872 --> 19:25.216
I'll just, I'm I'm gonna get political for a second.
19:25.697 --> 19:29.628
President Trump is that guy, right? I would not say President
19:30.128 --> 19:33.913
Trump has a whole lot of gentleness in most of his political
19:34.426 --> 19:37.973
dealings. I don't know what he's like as a personal guy. He doesn't seem very
19:38.473 --> 19:41.727
gentle. He speaks the truth no matter what.
19:42.064 --> 19:46.204
And we get— we kind of respect that in certain jobs,
19:46.236 --> 19:49.991
but, but that's twisted, right? So if, if you can't handle
19:50.491 --> 19:53.785
the truth, that's your problem. Kind of like, I don't need to be gentle,
19:53.801 --> 19:57.494
this is your problem. Yeah. And that's one way it gets twisted.
19:57.673 --> 20:00.746
I said it is what it is kind of attitude. Yeah,
20:00.762 --> 20:04.313
circular. I'm gonna say what's true and yeah, it's your fault
20:04.813 --> 20:08.719
if you get your feelings hurt. It's like, well, no, I don't think that's actually
20:08.833 --> 20:12.288
biblical. Yeah. Um, I wrote— also wrote down just
20:12.788 --> 20:16.808
like standing up for yourself, having a back— backbone, not backing down from
20:17.308 --> 20:22.095
like just just always— it's kind of that stiff neck imagery
20:22.560 --> 20:26.151
of the scriptures, right? I'm just like— and, and there's, again,
20:26.167 --> 20:28.475
there's a certain goodness to that,
20:29.053 --> 20:32.146
but that kind of runs against gentleness.
20:33.220 --> 20:37.116
And then it's twisted, I think, and just like using and abusing things.
20:37.228 --> 20:40.979
If you need it, go get it. If you want
20:41.479 --> 20:44.441
it, go get it. And it's that little twisty thing at the bottom. Yeah,
20:44.682 --> 20:48.257
yeah. And you justify pretty much anything, and you can justify any
20:48.289 --> 20:51.359
of your actions because I'm strong.
20:52.025 --> 20:56.247
Uh, even, even like evolution, right? The, the survival
20:56.328 --> 21:00.201
of the fittest, um, is— if that's really
21:00.298 --> 21:04.890
how we lived, um, that's not godly because
21:05.473 --> 21:09.619
we're not looking out for anybody else. We're just concerned with ourselves and getting
21:10.119 --> 21:12.386
our point across and getting what we need.
21:13.866 --> 21:17.234
And we do live like that. Even today, right? I mean, there's a lot
21:17.282 --> 21:20.922
of scenarios we can think about where it's, I'm number one,
21:21.179 --> 21:25.285
you know, I come first, I'm taking care of myself. And that's— so we
21:25.785 --> 21:29.374
see many people, and we're guilty of it too, of falling into that path.
21:29.454 --> 21:33.207
And no gentleness, right? No, it's all selfishness.
21:33.784 --> 21:35.949
And we've talked about that. I feel like with a lot of fruits of the
21:36.449 --> 21:39.846
Spirit, if we do the opposite, it's usually for our own gain and our own
21:39.958 --> 21:43.390
selfish desires and Just like gentleness too. Like, that's something that
21:43.890 --> 21:48.090
we neglect and choose ourselves. I was thinking about the—
21:48.590 --> 21:50.970
we talk about this often and we can jump into more scriptures. Sorry, I'm just
21:51.470 --> 21:54.370
jumping in. I don't know. There's no plan today. You know that if you've listened
21:54.870 --> 21:58.050
to the podcast, there's getting to be less of a plan the
21:58.550 --> 22:00.970
further we go along. I feel like we kind of had a plan to start,
22:01.470 --> 22:04.260
but I think that it's off the cuff. Yeah, it's good. It's just conversation.
22:05.010 --> 22:08.780
But some of the typical things we talk about on each podcast,
22:08.970 --> 22:12.899
right? So how is it twisted? What's the real thing? But also we talk
22:13.399 --> 22:17.058
about kind of the ditches on either side of the road. And that's another
22:17.074 --> 22:20.800
way to think about gentleness. If gentleness is the road that I'm supposed
22:21.300 --> 22:24.445
to be on, what's on either side? What are the extremes that we are to
22:24.477 --> 22:27.753
avoid? One side is harsh.
22:28.267 --> 22:31.109
I always call it the ditch of harshness,
22:31.784 --> 22:35.766
right? Of just being overbearing or crude
22:35.959 --> 22:40.133
or weaponizing truth and just running over anybody
22:40.633 --> 22:43.887
that gets in my way. I think the other side, and I'm
22:44.387 --> 22:47.512
struggling with what the word is, but it's almost like
22:47.576 --> 22:50.832
passivity. Yeah, or being a doormat.
22:51.361 --> 22:55.211
Being a doormat. What I wrote down was never speaking
22:55.711 --> 22:59.349
the truth at all, or shying away from convictions,
23:00.087 --> 23:03.359
coddling feelings. Gentle parenting is
23:03.648 --> 23:07.738
in that ditch over there. There's probably one word Uh,
23:07.962 --> 23:11.487
better to summarize it. Um, I wrote
23:11.987 --> 23:15.252
it somewhere. Uh, I think you're
23:15.316 --> 23:18.777
right though. I think passive is a good passiveness. That's a good word for
23:19.277 --> 23:22.991
it. Yeah. Oh yeah, avoiding conflict, uh, in the name—
23:23.263 --> 23:26.243
in, in the name of cowardice. That's the word I wrote down. Yeah,
23:26.772 --> 23:29.464
it's either harshness or cowardice.
23:29.832 --> 23:33.998
I'm scared to death that you might get offended, or so
23:34.498 --> 23:37.687
I'm just going to take everything that you throw. So it's better just not to
23:38.187 --> 23:41.784
say anything at all, um, to defer to
23:42.284 --> 23:45.608
gentleness when in fact really we're just being
23:45.640 --> 23:48.774
cowards. Yeah, more than that. We were reading in 2 Peter— or
23:48.790 --> 23:52.180
sorry, 1 Peter chapter 2 a while ago, and, um, right before,
23:52.533 --> 23:54.686
you know, we're talking about, uh, what I read,
23:55.522 --> 23:58.832
Peter is addressing submissive roles that every one of
23:59.332 --> 24:02.270
us have and, you know, different authorities, figures that we have, and there is a
24:02.560 --> 24:05.948
There is a biblical means to submitting to those that are
24:06.448 --> 24:09.657
in authority, to your wife and wives to your husbands, right?
24:09.978 --> 24:13.415
There's ways to do it, but Peter— I mean, the Bible, whole Bible also
24:13.736 --> 24:17.301
never says submit to someone if they're going to make you do
24:17.801 --> 24:20.817
something that's sinful or treat you in a wrong way. No, that's not what it
24:20.833 --> 24:24.671
says. It says ultimately follow God and God's law
24:25.217 --> 24:29.344
and God's rules, and we read it in D-Group, right, in Acts
24:29.633 --> 24:33.391
chapter 5. Somewhere in there, right, whenever Peter, he just came back from eating
24:33.488 --> 24:37.134
with the Gentiles, right, and he gets confronted
24:37.634 --> 24:39.929
with the Jewish people, the other Jewish believers, and they're like, you can't go.
24:40.154 --> 24:42.419
You can't go into that house. You're not supposed to. You broke the law,
24:42.644 --> 24:46.033
like, and he's like, hey, listen, this is what God told me to do,
24:46.193 --> 24:48.651
so should I listen to you or should I listen to God?
24:49.406 --> 24:52.683
And ultimately they were kind of like, oh, you're right, you know,
24:52.699 --> 24:55.702
God is way— and they agreed with him, and they're like, yeah, you're right.
24:56.377 --> 24:58.963
But ultimately honor God, right?
24:59.526 --> 25:02.690
But there is relationships that we have in our lives that we do have to
25:02.738 --> 25:06.128
submit to authority, whether it's your boss or mom
25:06.628 --> 25:09.855
or dad. You know, that's kind of mom and dad for everybody, I guess.
25:09.967 --> 25:13.180
But there's good ways to submit, right, and be
25:13.680 --> 25:17.469
godly. That's what I was trying to hit on. Which ditch for y'all is
25:18.321 --> 25:22.272
more— you know, which one are you bent more towards, the harshness
25:22.772 --> 25:26.299
or the cowardice? Harsh. I'm harsh. I wouldn't call it cowardice,
25:26.892 --> 25:29.905
uh, but passive. Yeah, I've,
25:30.018 --> 25:33.945
I've admitted to that here. A lot of times
25:34.445 --> 25:38.498
I'm, I'm passive, uh, whenever I'm trying to avoid confrontation,
25:39.075 --> 25:43.066
uh, which I guess you could, you could chalk up to cowardice eventually.
25:43.803 --> 25:47.042
Um, but I do eventually handle it. Like, I do get a stomach full.
25:47.106 --> 25:49.959
I'm like, okay, I gotta handle this because this is responsibility, right?
25:50.680 --> 25:54.280
Um, it probably depends on the situation. What are we
25:54.780 --> 25:57.500
talking about? That's what I'm gonna get. I'm like, I veer from one to the
25:58.000 --> 26:00.940
other. I go from ditch to ditch here. Yeah, I go from overcorrect to the
26:01.440 --> 26:05.020
other one. The more I think about it, I struggle with
26:05.520 --> 26:08.460
gentleness. And I'm looking back at my whole life and I was like, these ditches
26:08.960 --> 26:12.680
are perfect examples because I feel like I do both. And so it scares
26:13.180 --> 26:15.420
me to try to be gentle because I, I can't do it because I'm gonna
26:15.920 --> 26:18.720
end up being too harsh. If I have to confront this person, I'm going to
26:19.220 --> 26:22.130
be Right. I don't know how to, you know, keep my demeanor, my voice,
26:22.630 --> 26:25.630
my tone, because I know I can— I'm angry with this situation, but how do
26:26.130 --> 26:29.310
I address it gently? And then it leads me to the other side where I'm
26:29.810 --> 26:32.410
just not going to talk about it. And I think I had poor examples growing
26:32.910 --> 26:36.070
up of conflict resolution, like kind of how to address that.
26:36.450 --> 26:39.850
My family, I love them. If you're listening, I'm not saying anything
26:40.350 --> 26:42.730
bad about anybody. I just— we kind of brush things under the rug a lot.
26:43.230 --> 26:46.948
And I know it's— that's common. That's a lot of families. So then my example
26:47.448 --> 26:49.806
of gentleness, not that I didn't have it, but when it comes to conflict,
26:50.465 --> 26:52.793
I didn't know how to properly do it. I still, still trying to figure that
26:53.293 --> 26:56.839
out. So with my family, it's more, more harsh. It's more
26:56.887 --> 27:00.580
of a tightrope sometimes instead of a road to drive on. Yeah,
27:00.596 --> 27:04.321
it's a balance. It's a balance. It's a small deer path through the woods.
27:04.514 --> 27:08.111
You lean one way, you're gonna fall to one side, which is having the briars
27:08.143 --> 27:11.644
and the brambles on either side. Yeah. And that's why, like I said,
27:12.238 --> 27:15.516
the more this goes on, the fruits of the Spirit,
27:15.532 --> 27:19.115
like I said, I think it intensifies how the
27:19.147 --> 27:21.943
difficulty it is to stay in step with this.
27:22.624 --> 27:26.028
You're talking about like each fruit of the Spirit? Yeah, yeah, yep.
27:27.640 --> 27:30.690
Yeah, I could be wrong there. Ultimately leading us to next week, right?
27:30.739 --> 27:33.968
Which is very hard. I'm a puzzler, so I'm always trying to
27:33.984 --> 27:37.567
put the puzzle together. Yeah, that's— I mean, it makes
27:38.067 --> 27:41.209
sense to me now. It makes sense. Yeah. Next week is even harder for me,
27:41.644 --> 27:46.122
uh, but self-control. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that these are more
27:46.187 --> 27:49.440
mature. Yeah, more mature fruits of the Spirit.
27:50.341 --> 27:53.610
I wrestle with it as a boss, right? So this one's hard,
27:53.723 --> 27:57.937
especially I'm a, I'm a pastor and,
27:58.018 --> 28:02.560
uh, yeah, so there's a certain like expectation there And
28:02.592 --> 28:06.213
then I'm responsible in our church to oversee
28:06.293 --> 28:10.203
some employees that, you know, have been tasked
28:10.703 --> 28:14.497
by the church to do certain things every week and every, every month. And,
28:15.234 --> 28:18.935
and skating that line, and I'm sure you've dealt with this too at Penner
28:19.435 --> 28:22.573
Construction, this is my first time really being a boss in this,
28:22.941 --> 28:26.242
this role as senior pastor. And it's real easy to
28:26.386 --> 28:30.811
swerve in these ditches, right, to go back and forth from Uh,
28:31.180 --> 28:35.132
the harsh side is the micromanager, overbearing,
28:35.196 --> 28:38.682
like everything you do I nitpick and I stay
28:39.182 --> 28:42.762
frustrated with employees and I can't believe they're doing that
28:43.262 --> 28:47.163
and I'm just on them and on, you know, all that. And everybody's thinking
28:47.663 --> 28:50.826
about a boss they've had that's like that. Yeah, but if you veer too far
28:50.938 --> 28:54.102
the other way and you're just like, hey, it's good, yeah, I don't, you know,
28:54.247 --> 28:57.701
grace and mercy, you know, it's, it's great, whatever, you know
28:58.086 --> 29:01.229
you get to a point where that's like the expectation. And yeah,
29:01.790 --> 29:04.676
some people take advantage of that and don't do their job all the way,
29:04.741 --> 29:08.557
or don't, don't work hard, or, or don't, you know,
29:09.086 --> 29:12.967
whatever. And then if you come back to the middle with gentleness
29:13.095 --> 29:16.222
and correction, then you're— I've been labeled
29:16.722 --> 29:18.788
as a micromanager on this side. So it's like,
29:20.054 --> 29:23.390
I'm with you. I'm like, I don't know what happened. It's just hard.
29:23.438 --> 29:27.017
It's a balance of I think if you're holding people
29:27.049 --> 29:30.711
to the expectations and being a good steward of resources,
29:30.823 --> 29:34.116
but doing it in a way that is kind and gentle and gracious and,
29:34.678 --> 29:38.035
and all of that, and still I'm their pastor too.
29:38.228 --> 29:41.071
So it's like, yeah, and I'm supposed to be their friend,
29:41.745 --> 29:44.749
but then I'm also their boss. And so yeah, it's just hard. You're sitting here,
29:44.797 --> 29:48.025
you're one of those employees, right? So just tell me, Byron, just tell me it's
29:48.525 --> 29:52.370
okay. I can take criticism. Right now.
29:52.870 --> 29:56.270
Right now. Right now. Well, your mustache, we need to
29:56.770 --> 30:00.570
talk. It's better than yours. I'm just kidding. I don't know,
30:01.070 --> 30:04.030
have you dealt with that? Oh yeah, a bunch. And I'm always, like you said,
30:04.530 --> 30:08.330
I'm always either one side or the other. It feels like, um, it feels
30:08.830 --> 30:12.570
like a mark we could never hit. It's like I'm always, I'm always one side
30:13.070 --> 30:16.630
of the line. But if we don't try though, then we're guilty too,
30:17.130 --> 30:20.283
right? Yeah. So yeah, so the— I think the,
30:20.588 --> 30:24.146
the best advice that I think that I can give there is
30:24.499 --> 30:27.448
you have to live this out. Like, it depends.
30:27.625 --> 30:31.184
You have to be loving, and you've
30:31.684 --> 30:35.608
got to be patient, and you've got to be an actual
30:35.720 --> 30:38.958
peacemaker and kind. And, you know, you've got to have
30:39.006 --> 30:41.876
all these, uh, qualities, or gifts.
30:42.148 --> 30:45.595
Not— yeah, kind of the other fruits of the Spirit. Yeah. So it's staying in
30:46.095 --> 30:49.733
step with all those. That's why it's such a balance, is because All those
30:49.781 --> 30:53.762
need to line up really to maintain a good
30:53.794 --> 30:57.500
balance of being gentle but being right, not being too passive,
30:57.564 --> 31:00.802
not being too harsh. And so,
31:01.752 --> 31:06.520
if I have a leadership
31:07.020 --> 31:10.786
within my company that is harsh
31:11.286 --> 31:13.362
and I'm ruling by an iron fist,
31:14.634 --> 31:17.851
then I've got to I've got to completely change
31:17.948 --> 31:21.152
the way that I run my business, but I know
31:21.168 --> 31:24.581
that I can't be too soft and too passive
31:24.613 --> 31:26.344
because then we won't have a business.
31:26.921 --> 31:30.542
Yeah. And so how do I do
31:31.042 --> 31:35.317
this? So my testimony, my example is
31:35.413 --> 31:40.204
I have to love my men well and
31:41.598 --> 31:44.612
to the point to where they have a trust in me. And if I sit
31:45.112 --> 31:48.467
them down and say, hey guys, this is what it, like you said,
31:48.980 --> 31:52.674
basically what you end up having to do is sit them down and
31:53.174 --> 31:56.288
to explain to them, hey, this is the way I see it. This is my
31:56.368 --> 31:59.870
perspective. Okay. And I really,
32:00.062 --> 32:03.548
this is, and lay out, this is what needs to happen from here.
32:04.318 --> 32:07.836
And this is why. That's a lot of words instead of
32:08.336 --> 32:11.835
saying, hey, cutting it short to this is what you need to do
32:11.931 --> 32:16.288
because I'm the boss. No, that's— you're not going to get anything from
32:16.321 --> 32:20.714
that. But if I, if I lead
32:21.084 --> 32:24.310
my men well, they respect what I have to
32:24.810 --> 32:28.490
say. And so, yeah, then explaining to them, hey, this is the way
32:28.990 --> 32:31.426
I see it and this is why I see it this way.
32:33.389 --> 32:36.864
And then they repent, right? They change their
32:37.364 --> 32:40.846
mind. Okay. My bad. And they may
32:40.990 --> 32:44.677
have some words of wisdom for me. Some pushback. They may have some pushback
32:45.177 --> 32:48.396
that I need to be wise enough to say, hey, you're right.
32:48.524 --> 32:51.746
Let's look into that a little bit more. Let's see what that looks like.
32:52.772 --> 32:57.116
They might be defensive and go, well, but I did that because I'm so-and-so
32:57.196 --> 33:01.011
and this and customer. So there's some humility
33:01.043 --> 33:04.458
there, right? You cannot have gentleness without humility.
33:05.420 --> 33:07.720
I think a lot, a lot of these fruits of the Spirit. I don't know
33:08.220 --> 33:11.560
why we don't list humility. Humility is such a great one. Trust. Well,
33:12.060 --> 33:15.460
because it is, it is a fruit, but it's just not listed here. And it
33:15.960 --> 33:18.420
helps with every single one of these. You want to love better? Be humble,
33:18.920 --> 33:21.980
right? You want to be— have— make peace with people? Be humble. You name it,
33:22.480 --> 33:27.540
right? How does, uh, the creation story—
33:28.040 --> 33:31.500
creation, fall, garden, Genesis 1 through 3—
33:32.000 --> 33:35.240
what's the connection here with gentleness? Uh, with gentleness? I don't know.
33:35.740 --> 33:37.793
Can y'all think of— I would say though Just the first thing that comes to
33:37.826 --> 33:41.649
my mind is God's love for us is gentle
33:41.681 --> 33:44.894
because what did he promise them? You know, if you eat from this tree
33:45.394 --> 33:49.006
of good and evil, what's gonna happen? You're gonna die. Yeah,
33:49.152 --> 33:52.482
and what happens when they eat it? They don't initially
33:52.982 --> 33:56.362
die, right? I think that there's some gentleness there. Like he nurtured them. He still
33:56.862 --> 34:00.027
loved them. He provided for them even though they were naked in the garden and
34:00.527 --> 34:03.886
they were afraid. He gave them clothes, right? He made a way for
34:04.386 --> 34:07.901
them, and then through history He made a way for salvation to be brought to
34:08.401 --> 34:11.821
us through Jesus, right? And maybe that's a stretch just saying gentle,
34:11.837 --> 34:15.355
but He's gentle with humanity, right? He doesn't just immediately give us what
34:15.855 --> 34:19.145
we deserve. There's gentleness in there. He's refraining from being harsh.
34:19.531 --> 34:22.727
Oh well, just kidding. That's not harsh. No, that's what we deserve.
34:23.001 --> 34:26.583
God— we deserve— we do deserve harshness, right? And God is—
34:26.615 --> 34:29.908
so it's more than gentleness. It's love and grace
34:30.408 --> 34:34.049
and mercy, but Yeah, because gentleness doesn't mean there is no confrontation,
34:34.065 --> 34:36.938
right? Because God confronts them in the garden. He does,
34:37.034 --> 34:40.564
right? And he calls, he asks them questions, but he doesn't just smite them
34:41.064 --> 34:44.400
down, right? But he— yeah, I think that he handled the situation gently
34:44.496 --> 34:47.497
whenever he rightfully so could have, right?
34:47.626 --> 34:51.140
Because exposes their sin but
34:51.156 --> 34:54.542
gives them consequences, yet also clothes them.
34:54.767 --> 34:58.365
Yeah, yeah, he brings the truth with gentleness.
35:00.265 --> 35:04.097
Truth is, you've sinned against me. And I was thinking about
35:04.597 --> 35:08.287
just our, um, totally different way of thinking about it,
35:08.303 --> 35:12.066
right? So God gave us as humans authority
35:12.647 --> 35:15.991
over creation, right? And so we're called to—
35:16.945 --> 35:20.277
what does he say— exercise dominion over creation,
35:20.342 --> 35:23.917
right? The fruit of the trees is there to eat.
35:24.305 --> 35:27.327
The animals are there to, to name and to use and to eventually to eat
35:27.827 --> 35:30.118
and all that sort of stuff.
35:30.761 --> 35:34.280
Um, so dominion though, authority,
35:35.035 --> 35:38.474
doesn't just mean domination. It doesn't mean
35:38.974 --> 35:42.202
use and abuse for whatever we want, right? There's a—
35:43.246 --> 35:47.135
I think there's baked into the command for dominion is,
35:47.794 --> 35:51.875
uh, the idea of gentleness, right? Of using it as
35:51.924 --> 35:55.779
a steward, using it as someone who's Um,
35:57.125 --> 36:00.588
trying to see it flourish, see it cultivated,
36:00.796 --> 36:04.579
not just— so, so I'm not a tree hugger, right?
36:05.124 --> 36:08.346
I'm not like uber environmentalist, but at
36:08.846 --> 36:12.226
the same time, I don't know that we should be spilling oil all
36:12.354 --> 36:15.480
over and killing animals, right? I don't know that we should be,
36:16.105 --> 36:19.728
um, if we're clearly destroying the earth, we shouldn't
36:20.228 --> 36:23.351
be doing that activity. Also, God gave us the earth to use,
36:23.415 --> 36:26.669
right? I have a degree in petroleum engineering,
36:26.861 --> 36:29.623
like extracting oil from the ground. Like, God put it there,
36:30.137 --> 36:34.699
we can use it, but there's got to be responsible ways— responsible,
36:34.796 --> 36:38.908
i.e., gentle ways— of using our
36:38.972 --> 36:43.148
dominion over creation, right? And so we
36:43.229 --> 36:47.003
can use our strength and our authority in a gentle
36:47.503 --> 36:51.324
way for the good and the flourishing of the world and
36:51.437 --> 36:55.910
humanity. But we can also just go just
36:56.410 --> 36:59.628
use it, throw it away. Yeah, let's just trash our streets. Let's just fill
36:59.676 --> 37:02.977
our waterways with, with stuff and kill animals. Like,
37:03.538 --> 37:07.704
that's not gentleness. Gentleness is strength
37:08.204 --> 37:12.079
and authority under control. Yeah. So would you say like gentleness played
37:12.175 --> 37:16.037
out is, uh, kind of like responsibility, right? Yeah. So yeah,
37:16.053 --> 37:19.771
so anywhere where there is responsibility there is
37:19.947 --> 37:24.099
a call, a need to be gentle, right? Because if you have a responsibility,
37:24.131 --> 37:27.449
it means you actually have a power to make decisions, right?
37:27.593 --> 37:31.104
And if you have power, then what do I do with this power? How do
37:31.604 --> 37:35.256
I— how do I— man, yeah, we've hit on that in marriage, at work,
37:35.656 --> 37:39.135
and the earth and stewardship of our resources.
37:39.199 --> 37:42.934
Yeah, any— I'm realizing that authority and
37:43.142 --> 37:47.055
authority responsibility. Yeah, so with authority Well,
37:47.216 --> 37:50.476
I guess we've already kind of— never mind. That's what I'm saying.
37:51.151 --> 37:55.038
If you have responsibility, you have authority, right? And you have to address it
37:55.407 --> 37:59.053
gently along with other aspects to all the fruits of
37:59.553 --> 38:03.085
the Spirit. Just going back a little bit because whenever
38:03.743 --> 38:07.486
you asked how in the creation account do we see God's gentleness,
38:07.694 --> 38:11.421
and I don't know if this is what just kind of come to mind in
38:11.533 --> 38:14.273
Isaiah, It took me a while to find it though.
38:15.453 --> 38:19.882
Isaiah 40:11 says,
38:20.076 --> 38:23.817
he tends his flock like a shepherd. So just
38:24.552 --> 38:28.488
the— I guess throughout
38:28.537 --> 38:32.201
Scripture God describes himself as
38:32.378 --> 38:34.981
the Good Shepherd, right? He tends his flock like a shepherd.
38:35.527 --> 38:39.017
He gathers the lambs in his arms. And he carries them
38:39.114 --> 38:42.559
close to his heart. He gently leads those
38:42.994 --> 38:48.745
that have young. So yeah,
38:50.588 --> 38:54.159
the picture that paints for us that
38:54.368 --> 38:58.115
being a— God is the Good Shepherd and he's a Good Shepherd towards us
38:58.244 --> 39:04.596
and he's gentle towards us, that he has power,
39:05.126 --> 39:08.607
but he chooses to restrain his power to
39:08.720 --> 39:13.308
deal with us, and to your point earlier,
39:14.335 --> 39:17.672
yeah, he could have— all right, this is it— and cut it right there,
39:18.843 --> 39:23.046
but he restrained his power and
39:23.094 --> 39:26.993
dealt with us in a gentle manner, and that's what I was thinking.
39:27.731 --> 39:30.829
He described himself as a shepherd, and Um, there's that,
39:31.198 --> 39:34.171
there's that, you know, the thread of the shepherd or thread of the, you know,
39:34.396 --> 39:37.449
the lamb. How, how idiotic,
39:38.172 --> 39:41.160
uh, are sheep? You know, I know you've said that before. Very.
39:41.964 --> 39:45.370
Yeah. And we've made that, we've made that kind of analogy before
39:45.418 --> 39:48.535
about how we are like sheep. And this basically,
39:48.551 --> 39:52.343
this is what the Bible's saying. We're like sheep and God's the Good Shepherd.
39:52.873 --> 39:56.343
We are, we get in trouble. And we stay
39:56.423 --> 39:59.148
in trouble. And as soon as we get out of trouble, we jump right back
39:59.648 --> 40:03.332
into trouble. Like, and then if we see somebody doing something
40:03.396 --> 40:05.752
dumb, we follow them right into it. Like,
40:07.019 --> 40:10.722
so it's a— yeah, it's a good— it's a good picture that how
40:11.572 --> 40:15.723
God's gentle with us through the restraint of his own power. I'm just making
40:16.223 --> 40:19.555
my own connections in my head, though, like of how connected this word is to
40:19.587 --> 40:23.389
authority. Yeah. And I don't know that I've like ever.
40:23.486 --> 40:27.431
It's like a new thought for me. So, but I know in our day there's
40:27.479 --> 40:32.351
a whole lot of liberal thought about if
40:32.400 --> 40:36.587
there is a power imbalance, that's always bad, right? It always
40:36.684 --> 40:40.176
leads to a problem, right? That there is a power
40:40.676 --> 40:43.687
imbalance. So like male,
40:43.800 --> 40:47.941
female, right? If there's any sort of like power imbalance
40:48.441 --> 40:52.573
and there's abuse and whatever and I'm
40:52.621 --> 40:56.386
not speaking coherently on this because I don't— I
40:56.466 --> 40:59.121
thought I didn't write anything down or think about this in depth.
41:00.310 --> 41:03.251
But without a Christian worldview,
41:04.199 --> 41:07.767
yeah, you can see they can recognize the problem that
41:07.815 --> 41:11.073
when there is an imbalance of power, there can be abuse,
41:11.429 --> 41:15.054
right, of any kind you can just imagine,
41:15.167 --> 41:19.536
right? But the biblical answer is gentleness,
41:19.970 --> 41:23.403
right? That just because you have power or authority
41:23.435 --> 41:27.205
or responsibility over somebody or something or whatever
41:27.766 --> 41:31.664
doesn't mean that it has to go bad, right? That God's intention
41:31.761 --> 41:36.044
is that we would be gentle with that power,
41:36.269 --> 41:39.894
that authority that we've been given. And I was there—
41:40.263 --> 41:43.520
it's addressed in the New Testament towards pastor,
41:43.648 --> 41:47.148
elder, overseer. So it's, it's in 1
41:47.164 --> 41:50.731
Timothy 3, the qualifications of an overseer,
41:50.859 --> 41:54.458
right? He, he goes through a bunch of them, but one of them he says—
41:55.132 --> 41:58.683
well, let me just read it because it's good. This saying is trustworthy:
41:58.923 --> 42:02.506
if anyone aspires, wants to be in the
42:03.006 --> 42:06.426
office of an overseer, pastor, elder, same thing, he desires
42:06.522 --> 42:09.494
a noble task. Therefore, an overseer, pastor,
42:09.574 --> 42:13.702
elder must be above reproach, The, the husband
42:14.202 --> 42:17.315
of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled,
42:17.604 --> 42:20.703
respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
42:21.297 --> 42:25.552
not a drunkard. And here's, here's where it talks about it: not violent
42:26.052 --> 42:28.539
but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
42:29.181 --> 42:32.601
Not violent but gentle, right? So it's kind of an
42:32.697 --> 42:35.892
opposite that's helping us understand what gentle means.
42:38.188 --> 42:41.923
Somebody who uses their power to hurt others is
42:42.423 --> 42:45.642
violent, right? Somebody— and if that's the kind
42:46.142 --> 42:49.169
of person, uh, if you're, if you,
42:49.393 --> 42:53.176
if you're examining people for this, right, if they have
42:53.676 --> 42:57.055
a temper that is, that is not controlled,
42:57.408 --> 43:01.239
that is not under the submission of the Holy Spirit, that's dangerous,
43:01.560 --> 43:05.401
right? Because it will lead to violence, not just stabbing people with
43:05.901 --> 43:09.417
a knife, but with our words, with our actions,
43:09.757 --> 43:12.931
bullying and domineering and all that sort of stuff,
43:12.947 --> 43:16.237
right? So it's the opposite of gentle. The opposite. He says not violent
43:16.737 --> 43:22.614
but gentle, right? And then later on in Titus 3— nope,
43:22.840 --> 43:24.628
not there— 2 Timothy 2,
43:25.982 --> 43:29.575
he's talking about false teachers,
43:29.672 --> 43:33.000
and he says, or like bad
43:33.500 --> 43:36.543
shepherds, right? And he says, have nothing to do with foolish,
43:36.831 --> 43:40.246
ignorant controversies. You know that they breed quarrels,
43:40.999 --> 43:44.510
and the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind
43:45.010 --> 43:47.957
to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil.
43:48.534 --> 43:51.628
Here's, here's the key: correcting his opponents with
43:52.060 --> 43:54.625
gentleness. Yeah. Um, and so the,
43:55.010 --> 43:59.035
the ministry of somebody who is not um,
43:59.260 --> 44:01.684
godly or not in submission to the Holy Spirit,
44:02.550 --> 44:06.515
there's going to be foolish, ignorant controversies, right? Because their opinions
44:07.015 --> 44:09.805
and their loudmouth and whatever is just going to rule the day, and it's going
44:10.305 --> 44:14.813
to create division and strife, uh, and it breeds quarrels.
44:15.166 --> 44:18.633
But he says we're not to be quarrelsome, we're to patiently endure
44:18.778 --> 44:22.277
evil, correcting opponents with gentleness. So again,
44:22.293 --> 44:26.786
I love that phrase, correcting with gentleness. So it's Stand
44:27.286 --> 44:30.986
up for the truth, but do it in a way that's gentle. Don't just
44:31.595 --> 44:34.961
abuse the truth as a weapon. Like, use the
44:35.461 --> 44:38.472
truth, correct your opponents with gentleness.
44:38.728 --> 44:43.649
Yeah. Yeah. And what does that look like? And I think that that's
44:44.149 --> 44:47.657
circumstantial too, right? There's certain ways— there's certain ways you
44:48.157 --> 44:51.536
should go about correcting people and that
44:51.888 --> 44:55.541
you've got to think about that. Because, and we talked about it, I think,
44:55.590 --> 44:59.351
Jim, we're hitting around it. We've talked about this several times before,
45:01.182 --> 45:02.829
to meet people where they are.
45:04.169 --> 45:07.430
It's more of a perspective issue here.
45:08.125 --> 45:12.221
We need to see where people are in
45:12.269 --> 45:15.413
such a way that you can deal
45:15.913 --> 45:20.855
with them gently. Okay, so say Just
45:21.355 --> 45:25.468
an example. Say you really are truly more spiritually mature
45:25.968 --> 45:29.870
than somebody that needs to be stand corrected,
45:30.207 --> 45:34.016
needs to be corrected. So you've got to see it for that. Okay, so how
45:34.160 --> 45:37.572
do I go about this? That's being gentle, right?
45:38.170 --> 45:42.903
How do I need to approach them? How does this need to
45:43.517 --> 45:47.206
be public? Does this need to be private? Where does this need to
45:47.706 --> 45:50.990
take place? And to really take consideration,
45:51.265 --> 45:53.961
right? That's being gentle, taking consideration.
45:54.933 --> 45:58.296
And that's not an easy thing to do because like I said, a lot of
45:58.570 --> 46:04.472
times we want to say we're in— you're in an open argument
46:04.972 --> 46:07.873
or not an argument or debate, you know, and you want to be harsh with
46:08.373 --> 46:10.919
your opponent and stick it to them, right? You want to stick it to them.
46:11.500 --> 46:15.804
So how do you— okay, so then you automatically,
46:15.918 --> 46:19.214
as soon as there is some sort of Okay,
46:19.695 --> 46:23.048
I know that they're wrong, for the lack of better
46:23.548 --> 46:27.155
words, but I'm not going to say anything right now because I'm going
46:27.252 --> 46:29.963
to let it play out. I'm going to think about it. I'm going to pray
46:30.463 --> 46:33.364
about it. I'm going to search the Scripture. You know, I'm going to do everything
46:33.476 --> 46:37.118
inside what— how the Bible says to correct
46:37.166 --> 46:40.840
to my best knowledge and then carry
46:40.872 --> 46:44.946
that out as it's presented, not Not
46:45.446 --> 46:48.777
really as far— and I don't know, I may be wrong here, but 9
46:48.826 --> 46:53.106
times out of 10, it usually presents itself and then you can— then
46:53.282 --> 46:56.488
you're more equipped to handle it in that moment.
46:57.209 --> 47:00.752
And I think that that's the most effective way to
47:01.252 --> 47:04.695
correct people in that, to live that out is difficult
47:05.195 --> 47:08.174
because we want, like you said, we want to lash out. We want to have
47:08.206 --> 47:11.348
the answer right then and there and say, you know,
47:11.556 --> 47:14.458
this is— you're wrong and this is where you're wrong kind of deal. Yeah.
47:14.698 --> 47:18.229
So, yeah, it takes time and intention. I've known ministries
47:18.729 --> 47:21.249
and churches online that, um,
47:21.907 --> 47:26.019
kind of pride themselves on being a little
47:26.519 --> 47:29.601
bit controversial, a little bit like kind of
47:29.714 --> 47:33.746
on the edge, and like, um, often saying
47:33.810 --> 47:36.669
and doing things that are a little bit abrasive.
47:37.408 --> 47:39.898
Uh, make a big post on Facebook. Yeah,
47:40.219 --> 47:43.528
yeah. Well, that and just in, in the sermons and,
47:43.625 --> 47:46.243
and the the way that they go about things, like,
47:47.062 --> 47:50.804
and that's held as like this ultimate value of
47:50.836 --> 47:54.353
being a pastor. And I think people sometimes are drawn
47:54.853 --> 47:58.320
to that for preachers and pastors, like the hellfire
47:58.820 --> 48:02.127
and brimstone. And, um, and, and that,
48:02.384 --> 48:05.740
like, by all means we should call out sin, right? I'm not saying
48:05.772 --> 48:09.322
that, but, but, but just the over-the-top,
48:09.627 --> 48:12.947
in-your-face, like Yeah, harsh, brash,
48:13.299 --> 48:17.241
like, repent or you're going to hell. Yeah. And then like calling
48:17.741 --> 48:21.087
out other people for, you know, for their sin, whether they're in
48:21.587 --> 48:25.061
the church or outside the church or other churches or whatever. Like, I've known
48:25.654 --> 48:29.163
like this, and then I read this passage about have nothing
48:29.663 --> 48:33.442
to do with foolish, ignorant controversies. You know, they breed quarrels. We're not
48:33.942 --> 48:37.821
to be quarrelsome, but kind to everyone, able to teach patiently
48:38.321 --> 48:40.981
enduring evil, correcting opponents with gentleness. Like,
48:42.352 --> 48:46.317
what I just described doesn't fit 2 Timothy 2,
48:46.446 --> 48:48.733
right? Yeah, of what this is supposed to be like.
48:49.925 --> 48:53.436
I think the church and pastors and leaders and preachers
48:54.032 --> 48:57.263
and life group leaders and whatever are, are called to be—
48:57.874 --> 49:01.507
yeah, let's stand on the truth, but at
49:02.007 --> 49:05.322
the same time do everything with patience and gentleness
49:05.386 --> 49:09.350
and kindness. There's a difference, though. That's what the scripture says
49:09.382 --> 49:12.544
we should do, not just
49:12.656 --> 49:16.765
be bold and be loud. And yeah, man, sometimes that's people's personality,
49:16.829 --> 49:19.493
and there's nothing wrong with that. There's a time and place for that. There's a
49:19.993 --> 49:23.762
time and a place for that. But if that's the only thing that you are
49:24.003 --> 49:27.806
and you're never able to patiently, gently help somebody,
49:28.079 --> 49:31.225
like, see the error of their ways and see how they're thinking
49:31.725 --> 49:36.184
wrong, yeah, see how they're believing or living wrong. If you're just the
49:36.684 --> 49:39.747
judge coming down on them, I think you've
49:40.247 --> 49:43.663
missed it. I think you've missed the instruction of the scripture. So I don't know.
49:43.728 --> 49:47.194
No, I think that's good, and that's a— it's a wonderful thing to
49:47.694 --> 49:51.544
try to put into perspective, right? And I think if we're continuously searching
49:51.592 --> 49:55.540
that out, that, you know, you can continuously make adjustments.
49:55.604 --> 49:58.930
That's why another thing that this is— this is a like I said, a more
49:58.962 --> 50:02.681
mature quality because it
50:03.181 --> 50:07.157
takes that type of perspective. Like, it takes that ability
50:07.190 --> 50:10.343
to see it for what it really is. And that self-awareness is
50:10.457 --> 50:14.411
not common. And then, but once it's displayed,
50:15.006 --> 50:18.050
like you said, once that is displayed, it's like, oh yeah,
50:18.452 --> 50:21.962
no, that dude, that dude gets it. He's got it. And I've
50:23.847 --> 50:27.363
one thing it says is, is that we need to correct,
50:27.716 --> 50:31.458
right? Like, it doesn't say just be gentle. It says correct.
50:31.506 --> 50:34.139
It says correct your opponents with gentleness. Correct them. Like,
50:35.006 --> 50:38.057
that's a command, right? That, that's a— don't be passive. Yeah,
50:38.073 --> 50:41.509
don't be passive. And later in Galatians 6:1,
50:41.525 --> 50:44.881
he's going to say, just a couple verses later, if anyone's
50:44.897 --> 50:48.429
caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him.
50:48.670 --> 50:51.428
What? In a spirit of gentleness.
50:52.101 --> 50:55.259
So restore doesn't sound quite the same
50:55.759 --> 51:00.052
as correct, but it's the same idea, right? To move them from— you're caught
51:00.552 --> 51:04.268
in this lifestyle, this way of thinking that's wrong,
51:04.396 --> 51:08.260
and that needs to be called out, and we want to help you move back
51:08.388 --> 51:10.873
towards God. But he— how does he say to do that?
51:11.658 --> 51:14.848
It's not by beating them over the head. He says
51:14.880 --> 51:17.958
restore them in the spirit of gentleness, right?
51:18.327 --> 51:22.182
Gentle care. Like, it's like the— it's like Good Samaritan, that guy
51:22.682 --> 51:25.716
picking him up, putting him on his horse, like taking him where he needs to
51:26.216 --> 51:29.673
go so that he can heal, caring for him, meeting his needs. Like,
51:30.173 --> 51:32.720
that's the picture, I think. Ultimately,
51:34.033 --> 51:38.004
we find this like the ultimate example is in Christ, right? And Christ gives
51:38.504 --> 51:42.045
that ultimate example of gentleness. But one
51:42.143 --> 51:45.812
thing that I wanted to kind of— because we rarely
51:46.888 --> 51:50.314
We rarely go back to what Jesus said, and I kind of wanted to today.
51:51.006 --> 51:54.497
And in Matthew, I was like, where did Jesus— where did Jesus talk about
51:54.867 --> 52:01.402
being gentle? Matthew 11:28
52:01.969 --> 52:05.644
says, come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I
52:05.725 --> 52:10.197
will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and
52:10.261 --> 52:13.388
learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart.
52:14.167 --> 52:16.638
And you will find rest for your souls.
52:17.392 --> 52:20.890
So there's a lot of connections here. So Jesus calls us to
52:20.986 --> 52:24.211
him. Okay, there we're weary and burdened.
52:24.757 --> 52:28.945
He says, I will give you rest. So there's rest tied
52:29.445 --> 52:32.972
into this. And take my yoke upon you
52:33.341 --> 52:36.437
and learn from me. Okay, explain that.
52:36.887 --> 52:40.320
Take my yoke upon you. What is that? What does
52:40.820 --> 52:44.590
it give us? What's the word picture there? You have an oxen and the oxen,
52:44.735 --> 52:48.701
the, the restraints of that's put on them so
52:48.749 --> 52:52.442
they can be controlled and also pull the whatever's behind
52:52.942 --> 52:56.665
them. So oxen, I've been thinking whenever I've read this,
52:56.777 --> 53:00.133
I was thinking like, yeah, an oxen is like, that is the, that is the
53:00.165 --> 53:02.943
picture of being terribly,
53:03.457 --> 53:06.989
terrifyingly strong, powerful, powerful. You get,
53:07.311 --> 53:10.939
if you've ever been around a wild cow or bull, It's like,
53:11.404 --> 53:14.598
get out of the way. Like, you can't— there's no stopping it. And if
53:15.098 --> 53:18.289
there's no— there's no fence that any man can build on this earth, I believe
53:18.789 --> 53:22.397
this, that can hold a bull in. Like, if they want out, they go.
53:22.879 --> 53:26.618
But anyways, it's that— it's the picture of that controlled,
53:26.891 --> 53:29.298
absolute, just raw strength.
53:30.518 --> 53:33.406
And Jesus is like, I've got the shoulders to tote it.
53:33.775 --> 53:36.744
There's rest in me. And this is where I was kind of, you know,
53:37.338 --> 53:40.227
the way we started off with it, it can wear on us.
53:42.050 --> 53:46.025
This life. And a lot
53:46.525 --> 53:50.838
of times whenever we are presented to show
53:50.854 --> 53:54.549
this gentleness, we kind of push back and
53:55.049 --> 53:58.550
it becomes difficult for us to maintain and be that guy
53:58.598 --> 54:02.627
to continuously carry the load. Right. And that's
54:03.127 --> 54:07.291
what we were talking about. It wears on us to be dad, to be Um,
54:08.044 --> 54:12.084
to be the, the gentle husband, right? And to be
54:12.132 --> 54:15.738
the, the boss or whatever, you know, show up every day and
54:16.238 --> 54:20.114
provide. And, and to, you know, and Jesus says,
54:20.226 --> 54:24.458
come, come to me and I'll, I'll give you rest here. But there's also
54:24.859 --> 54:28.642
like this, this picture of Jesus being, uh,
54:28.802 --> 54:31.287
this is what this means too though. Like,
54:31.992 --> 54:35.801
you've been blessed, I've been blessed. To, um,
54:37.528 --> 54:40.723
to be able to carry that, right? To be able to carry that load.
54:40.901 --> 54:43.929
Like, my wife needs to be able to rest in me, right?
54:44.701 --> 54:48.654
She needs to be able to, uh, bring her burdens
54:48.718 --> 54:52.205
to me. And my children need to be able to rely
54:52.333 --> 54:57.121
on me and my strength. Um, and so when
54:57.153 --> 55:00.897
that weighs us down, this is what Jesus is saying: when that starts weighing
55:00.993 --> 55:04.696
you down Bring it to me. Like, bring it
55:05.196 --> 55:08.322
to me. My yoke is easy. And so I, I don't know, I just read
55:08.354 --> 55:11.835
that this morning, was thinking about how that power,
55:12.221 --> 55:15.606
that harnessed power, um, and how much, um,
55:15.975 --> 55:19.168
how much power like Jesus has and how gentle he really,
55:19.745 --> 55:21.735
he really is with us is comforting.
55:22.473 --> 55:25.890
Because yeah, it, it does help
55:26.179 --> 55:29.468
whenever we do, whenever we start feeling all that pressure,
55:30.254 --> 55:33.586
um, to come to him and to lay it down and
55:34.086 --> 55:37.675
say, God, it's not up to me. It's not up to me. And I
55:38.175 --> 55:41.295
know that I get so caught up thinking that it is sometimes,
55:42.713 --> 55:47.180
but to really surrender to that is
55:47.229 --> 55:50.903
worth doing, right? It's worth paying
55:50.968 --> 55:54.649
attention to. So a follow-up question is, how does knowing
55:54.681 --> 55:58.999
that you can bring your burdens to God, how does that help you How
55:59.063 --> 56:01.498
does that perform gentleness or to carry that out?
56:01.931 --> 56:06.753
Yeah, well, essentially the
56:07.253 --> 56:11.288
thought is that we ultimately can't completely
56:11.320 --> 56:15.069
do it alone. And so there's
56:15.085 --> 56:18.418
that establishing that relationship. And that's what I was saying.
56:18.514 --> 56:22.936
I've established a relationship with my employees
56:23.436 --> 56:26.477
in such a way that they know that I'm going to be gentle with them.
56:27.583 --> 56:30.692
It's the flowing through. It's like, I know that
56:30.708 --> 56:34.699
Jesus— we talked about this with patience, right? I know that God's been patient
56:35.199 --> 56:37.199
with me. I'm going to be patient. I'm going to allow that to flow through
56:37.699 --> 56:41.558
me. That's being in— and that's what we talked about, I think, last time—
56:42.167 --> 56:45.934
being in step with the Spirit. And that's
56:46.434 --> 56:50.085
what Galatians says. That's what Paul says in Galatians is being in step.
56:50.181 --> 56:54.636
It actually takes action. It takes acting it out and allowing
56:54.732 --> 56:58.065
the Spirit to work through me And that's how
56:58.129 --> 57:02.407
I can perform gentleness is knowing that being
57:02.503 --> 57:06.444
in step with God's Spirit and understanding that, that he
57:06.460 --> 57:09.985
is that way towards me. Now I can, I can allow that to flow through
57:10.049 --> 57:15.240
me. I think what helps me to be gentle with, with looking at Matthew
57:15.740 --> 57:18.764
chapter 11 here, right? Whenever my burden is heavy, whenever my yoke is heavy,
57:18.780 --> 57:21.872
whenever I'm not giving it to God, the first thing
57:21.969 --> 57:24.788
that probably goes is my gentleness. I'm right. You know,
57:25.013 --> 57:28.348
I'm short, snappy. I'm harsh,
57:28.798 --> 57:31.850
right, or I'm passive, or I just don't want to deal with it, right?
57:32.508 --> 57:35.415
So as we give our burdens to Christ,
57:36.026 --> 57:39.560
that weight is lifted off our shoulders, and I have the ability to— now I
57:40.060 --> 57:43.688
can be gentle with so-and-so or so-and-so because all these worries are— they're
57:44.188 --> 57:46.354
no longer on my shoulders. God has taken that freedom.
57:46.949 --> 57:51.478
Yes, we have freedom. We have freedom in Christ, right? So through that
57:52.796 --> 57:56.103
giving those burdens up and receiving God's grace, right, it's Okay,
57:56.263 --> 58:00.159
now I can take a breath and I can handle this screaming
58:00.191 --> 58:04.087
kid or this annoying kid or annoying person,
58:04.119 --> 58:07.326
or I can handle this hard situation in my life because I, I can,
58:07.486 --> 58:10.661
I can address it with gentleness along with the other fruits of the Spirit as
58:10.773 --> 58:14.140
well. But through giving things up with
58:14.640 --> 58:17.170
God, yeah, whenever you live that out, when you give it up to God and
58:17.186 --> 58:20.921
then you allow the Spirit to work through you, it takes hold.
58:21.034 --> 58:24.625
Like, yeah, they know, like people around you notice. Oh yeah, they treat
58:25.125 --> 58:28.373
you differently. You're going to look different. You're going to look different. And so I
58:28.873 --> 58:32.131
think that it's beneficial in several different ways. So in
58:32.966 --> 58:36.694
me understanding that I can still
58:36.967 --> 58:40.744
rule, but with a gentleness, and things tend
58:41.244 --> 58:44.510
to work out the way that I wouldn't even plan them
58:44.542 --> 58:47.842
to, then I can taste and see
58:48.068 --> 58:51.670
this is the right way. Right. I understand that maybe
58:52.216 --> 58:55.734
that's not the, you know, that's not the world's way. And that's that repentive nature
58:56.234 --> 58:59.749
of this, right, is that's not the world's way. But I still,
58:59.845 --> 59:03.219
I tried to, tried to do it God's way. I put in genuine effort
59:03.719 --> 59:06.832
to do it God's way, and it worked out for the best in, in such
59:07.332 --> 59:10.270
a way that nobody would ever be able to plan or see, right?
59:10.848 --> 59:14.350
And that's the, the complete trust in, in falling,
59:14.687 --> 59:18.558
you know, falling in line to God's authority. And all in knowing that
59:19.058 --> 59:21.659
he's going to be gentle with you, right? That he's going to restrict his,
59:22.399 --> 59:26.480
uh, his ultimate power towards you for those, those who
59:26.496 --> 59:29.918
choose to love him, right? Uh, one, one, um,
59:30.513 --> 59:33.790
verse I wanted to say, and this is— it really doesn't say anything about gentleness,
59:34.449 --> 59:38.595
but I think it's the, um, kind of highlights
59:39.109 --> 59:43.336
what I— what we were just talking about in Proverbs, uh, 18 And
59:43.384 --> 59:47.152
this is verse 21 in Proverbs. Proverbs is riddled
59:47.184 --> 59:50.013
with this, this principle.
59:51.371 --> 59:54.095
21, it says, the tongue has the power of life and death,
59:54.690 --> 59:57.599
and those who love it will eat its fruit.
59:58.772 --> 01:00:02.710
If you're not gentle, if you're not gentle with your tongue, and if
01:00:03.210 --> 01:00:07.444
you're not gentle and you don't act this out, like, that's the— that's
01:00:07.476 --> 01:00:09.988
what you're going to get back. You're going to reap what you sow there.
01:00:10.599 --> 01:00:13.885
And I mean, we can say that We can say that and compare
01:00:14.385 --> 01:00:17.252
that with every single fruit of the Spirit. And that's the way the Bible— yeah,
01:00:17.493 --> 01:00:20.555
you can see the, the bad fruit. You can see the bad way.
01:00:21.164 --> 01:00:24.804
Yeah. Yeah. There— have y'all heard of Mark
01:00:25.304 --> 01:00:28.732
Driscoll? He was a pastor at Mars Hill. And I heard that name before.
01:00:28.957 --> 01:00:32.404
There was a podcast on the rise and fall of Mars Hill. Y'all should
01:00:32.904 --> 01:00:36.076
go listen to it. Go binge it. You really should. I haven't
01:00:36.576 --> 01:00:39.139
got that far, but I've ever listened to it. No, I know. I know.
01:00:39.668 --> 01:00:42.905
Mark Driscoll. Well, he's the opposite of this.
01:00:43.225 --> 01:00:47.070
He's the opposite of gentleness, right? He's known for being— oh, I wasn't even
01:00:47.570 --> 01:00:50.867
thinking about him earlier, but this is what it is. Same idea, right? Deal with
01:00:50.915 --> 01:00:53.158
it. There's this famous quote, um,
01:00:54.264 --> 01:00:57.020
he— there's some confrontation or whatever,
01:00:57.148 --> 01:01:00.528
and, and he basically says like, you're either going to
01:01:01.028 --> 01:01:02.996
get him on the Mars Hill bus or you're going to get run over by
01:01:03.496 --> 01:01:07.546
the Mars Hill bus. And the, the podcast guy basically says
01:01:07.818 --> 01:01:10.879
there's, there's a trail of dead bodies behind
01:01:11.489 --> 01:01:14.619
the bus because of how he treated people. Right.
01:01:14.699 --> 01:01:19.241
It's the opposite of this. It's violent.
01:01:19.754 --> 01:01:23.446
Not just literal, literal dead bodies. Yeah. That's not what I mean. But there's
01:01:23.946 --> 01:01:27.105
people that were used and abused. And if you didn't get on
01:01:27.153 --> 01:01:30.395
board with what he said, then, then you were going to be
01:01:31.390 --> 01:01:34.632
wasted. So I think kind of what you were talking
01:01:35.132 --> 01:01:38.853
about earlier, just personal life situation right now, like, you know, it's really easy to
01:01:39.353 --> 01:01:43.007
be gentle sitting around a podcast table. We like each other. We're friends.
01:01:43.664 --> 01:01:47.449
Um, no major conflict. No one's crying or screaming. Yeah. Yeah.
01:01:47.513 --> 01:01:50.817
No one's— no one's sick. There's no conflict right here.
01:01:50.913 --> 01:01:53.992
Right. Um, you know, gentleness is exposed
01:01:54.024 --> 01:01:57.520
when there is that conflict where that's the opportunity
01:01:57.873 --> 01:02:01.786
for gentleness. So how do you— what happens when you're right
01:02:02.443 --> 01:02:05.971
and someone else is wrong? How do you be gentle in that situation?
01:02:07.500 --> 01:02:10.840
Don't ask me. I'm still trying to figure it out. So it probably,
01:02:11.340 --> 01:02:14.930
like you said, it probably depends on what circumstance. If we're talking about marriage,
01:02:15.580 --> 01:02:19.300
like in the— Just pick one. You just got to pick one. Yeah. So marriage,
01:02:19.800 --> 01:02:22.680
just say being gentle in marriage. What does that look like? When you're right and
01:02:23.180 --> 01:02:26.980
she's wrong. Yeah. So my approach
01:02:27.480 --> 01:02:31.500
has not been pure here always, but so
01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:35.520
if I have, if there's conflict and I know that I'm right,
01:02:35.806 --> 01:02:40.105
And the thing is, is usually if you are self-aware
01:02:40.234 --> 01:02:44.565
enough to look back and say, this has been an ongoing issue
01:02:45.065 --> 01:02:48.399
for a long time, what is the root? Right? And so if you
01:02:48.415 --> 01:02:51.110
really try to dig and find out what the root of the issue is,
01:02:51.623 --> 01:02:55.602
then you can kind of change your perspective and change the way that you approach
01:02:55.778 --> 01:02:59.324
this instead of— because usually you were
01:02:59.404 --> 01:03:02.099
battling surface issues.
01:03:02.596 --> 01:03:06.707
Right, of something that's way deeper. So my,
01:03:06.948 --> 01:03:10.368
my approach is what I should do every
01:03:10.400 --> 01:03:12.953
time. I'm not saying I'm perfect in this, but what I should do every time,
01:03:12.969 --> 01:03:16.517
what I try to practice is now I'm going into prayer.
01:03:17.304 --> 01:03:20.516
Now I'm asking God, please reveal to me what it
01:03:21.016 --> 01:03:25.124
is that can help this. You know, you reveal
01:03:25.236 --> 01:03:28.881
to her, right? Help me what— in whatever
01:03:28.929 --> 01:03:32.460
way that I can facilitate that, you know, help me, teach me,
01:03:32.476 --> 01:03:36.104
guide me. And usually— and it may take—
01:03:36.393 --> 01:03:39.651
look, there's problems that me and Debbie have been working through for,
01:03:40.325 --> 01:03:44.274
uh, 20 years or better. Like, and Ethan, are you even
01:03:44.354 --> 01:03:48.014
20 years old? I'm just kidding.
01:03:48.206 --> 01:03:52.187
Yes, it's getting better and better and better. Now, will it completely
01:03:53.086 --> 01:03:56.874
1,000% be solved, all these issues? Probably not.
01:03:57.355 --> 01:04:01.012
And I'm okay with that. So So I'm right, you're wrong
01:04:01.124 --> 01:04:04.649
kind of deal kind of turns into, yeah, but it's,
01:04:05.114 --> 01:04:08.718
it's a work in progress. And, and so I need to stay
01:04:09.218 --> 01:04:12.580
in prayer and to maintain really my relationship with God the best that I
01:04:13.080 --> 01:04:15.784
possibly can so that, so that maybe,
01:04:16.089 --> 01:04:19.117
maybe— and I don't know, I don't know if that's the best approach,
01:04:19.309 --> 01:04:23.987
but I got a lot of negative examples. But we had a positive one this
01:04:24.116 --> 01:04:28.329
week. We were having a moment of tension. Life is very busy right now and
01:04:28.410 --> 01:04:31.991
between Hudson's football and girls dance and just like
01:04:32.055 --> 01:04:36.087
life is full. And we got home about 8:30 the
01:04:36.587 --> 01:04:40.150
other night, eating some McDonald's out of a bag. And we had a
01:04:40.650 --> 01:04:44.711
little— Maddie and I had a little moment of tension. And, and in
01:04:44.744 --> 01:04:48.261
that moment, I tried to be as gentle as I could and share
01:04:48.761 --> 01:04:52.437
the truth with her. And to— I'm not bragging on myself,
01:04:52.453 --> 01:04:55.810
but like, that's not always been the case. But it led to
01:04:56.310 --> 01:04:59.730
her going, okay, this is not good. Let's don't blow up.
01:05:00.230 --> 01:05:03.590
There's no need to elevate this more. She went outside. She sat on the
01:05:04.090 --> 01:05:07.130
porch. I gave it a minute. I went outside. Hey, what's going on?
01:05:07.630 --> 01:05:10.750
Yeah. Okay. She goes, hey, I recognize I'm being— okay.
01:05:10.870 --> 01:05:14.270
All right. I'm sorry. I know that's hard. We worked through it. It was
01:05:14.770 --> 01:05:18.490
awesome. It was amazing. That doesn't always happen. That's why I can think of it,
01:05:18.990 --> 01:05:22.030
you know, and I'm not going to go into the details, but, but it's when
01:05:22.582 --> 01:05:25.630
I think it was because God gave me a moment of patience
01:05:25.726 --> 01:05:28.902
and gentleness to go, hey, this isn't
01:05:29.402 --> 01:05:33.105
right. Let's, let's talk about it, you know? And when we
01:05:33.169 --> 01:05:37.468
respond the way we're supposed to, it helps our spouse respond
01:05:37.500 --> 01:05:40.564
the way they're supposed to. Right. So you weren't harsh and
01:05:41.064 --> 01:05:43.885
you weren't passive? No, because I wanted to be. I wanted to be both.
01:05:44.334 --> 01:05:47.975
I either wanted to go, so we're just going—
01:05:48.087 --> 01:05:51.631
it doesn't matter. Just let it go. But it did matter and we needed
01:05:52.131 --> 01:05:54.356
to talk about it, but I needed to come about it in a gentle way.
01:05:54.581 --> 01:05:58.893
And what came out of it was fruit, positive fruit. So what
01:05:59.393 --> 01:06:03.381
I was led off with was to answer that question is, is first
01:06:03.881 --> 01:06:06.667
I've got to identify how deep it is. Not everything is that deep, right?
01:06:06.764 --> 01:06:10.082
And I tend to think some things are
01:06:10.130 --> 01:06:13.464
self— they're surface weeds
01:06:13.961 --> 01:06:17.456
and they're easy to pull up, but it takes intentionality.
01:06:17.504 --> 01:06:21.271
Some things have deep root that we have to completely uproot.
01:06:21.351 --> 01:06:24.273
You can't just chop it down because it's just going to grow back. Yeah,
01:06:24.546 --> 01:06:28.336
right. So that's what I'm saying. It's, it's a, it's a matter
01:06:28.836 --> 01:06:32.013
of perspective here again, right? So we have to meet
01:06:32.029 --> 01:06:35.931
people where they are to see it. And then, okay, no. So sometimes
01:06:37.151 --> 01:06:40.668
I get that initial like, hey, she's wrong, this needs
01:06:40.684 --> 01:06:43.831
to be handled like right now, whatever that may be.
01:06:43.976 --> 01:06:46.593
And I'm sometimes I'm wrong and she has to do the same thing to me.
01:06:46.882 --> 01:06:49.339
Exactly. But we're talking about I'm right, she's wrong.
01:06:50.721 --> 01:06:54.368
In that order. Yeah. So I've got to stop instead
01:06:54.868 --> 01:06:58.176
of snapping back and think about it for just a second.
01:06:58.288 --> 01:07:01.276
Think about it. Give it some time. Give it proper time.
01:07:01.887 --> 01:07:05.373
And then say, hey, look, this is what— and then conversate
01:07:05.582 --> 01:07:09.149
through it. And what was your question? What does gentleness look like
01:07:09.649 --> 01:07:12.073
when you're right and they're wrong? I got another one to think about. What does
01:07:12.105 --> 01:07:15.527
gentleness look like when someone is either disrespecting
01:07:15.624 --> 01:07:18.015
you maybe attacking your character,
01:07:20.410 --> 01:07:23.760
doing something that's oppressive or,
01:07:24.375 --> 01:07:27.528
you know, negative towards you. I'll speak on this one a little bit as a,
01:07:28.078 --> 01:07:31.829
as a youth pastor. Past few years, I've found myself in this scenario
01:07:32.362 --> 01:07:36.382
where this kid's being disrespectful, mostly boys.
01:07:36.559 --> 01:07:39.789
I haven't had this with girls, really. Usually a
01:07:40.289 --> 01:07:43.424
middle school boy or a young high school boy and like, you're being a punk,
01:07:43.651 --> 01:07:47.913
you're being super rude. And this is where I've struggled to I
01:07:48.413 --> 01:07:51.668
know I don't want— I don't want to say something wrong and then they never
01:07:52.168 --> 01:07:55.054
come back to church. I want them here even though they're being a punk,
01:07:55.679 --> 01:07:59.354
and God has taught me a lot these past few years in addressing
01:07:59.851 --> 01:08:03.782
gentleness in that manner, I guess, whenever someone's
01:08:03.798 --> 01:08:07.136
being disrespectful or they've done me wrong literally,
01:08:07.633 --> 01:08:11.035
or not necessarily me. You had a scenario last night. I had a scenario last
01:08:11.083 --> 01:08:14.645
night. Done the church wrong, right? And we won't go into details of
01:08:15.145 --> 01:08:18.529
that scenario, but And not to boast or brag on myself, but this is God
01:08:19.029 --> 01:08:21.744
in me. And I was— I told Kennedy last night when I was telling her
01:08:22.244 --> 01:08:25.347
about that situation, how to talk with a middle school boy,
01:08:25.557 --> 01:08:29.276
and he'd done some things. And I'm like, man, listen, that's not cool. And we
01:08:29.776 --> 01:08:33.771
had a really good life lesson talk. And, um, I was—
01:08:34.272 --> 01:08:37.138
I saw the fruit there, and it made me— I was happy. It didn't,
01:08:37.428 --> 01:08:40.646
you know, he didn't— he was really upset. He has some consequences
01:08:41.146 --> 01:08:44.069
that he has to face, and and he knows that life's about to be hard,
01:08:44.165 --> 01:08:47.828
but I think God allowed me to have gentleness
01:08:47.877 --> 01:08:51.620
in that situation, and I was— it made me hopeful because
01:08:51.636 --> 01:08:55.186
like, okay, I've struggled with, you know, being— I don't want to be harsh,
01:08:55.444 --> 01:08:58.866
so then I usually be passive, and then I'm getting walked over by some
01:08:59.366 --> 01:09:01.452
students, you know. So you didn't need to let that one go. So this one
01:09:01.952 --> 01:09:04.119
was a little bit more so, and it helped me, gave me a little bit
01:09:04.619 --> 01:09:07.669
of confidence. Okay, I can do this. I can address it. I can be stern
01:09:07.959 --> 01:09:11.293
yet gentle. That's something that I'm just as a young
01:09:11.326 --> 01:09:15.093
man, I'm still trying to figure that out. And God helped me last night
01:09:15.593 --> 01:09:19.084
working through that a little bit. And it's a work in progress. It takes
01:09:19.584 --> 01:09:22.803
time. It takes practice. I've been, I've been a little harsh sometimes.
01:09:22.931 --> 01:09:26.698
And I guess it goes back to knowing, knowing the individual,
01:09:26.714 --> 01:09:29.888
knowing your situation. Some, some boys may respond
01:09:30.145 --> 01:09:33.832
better with a little bit more. I'm not going to say harshness, but sternness,
01:09:33.928 --> 01:09:37.551
directness, directness. And, and but you got to know those students.
01:09:37.663 --> 01:09:40.983
Some, some students, man, very gentle, very sensitive. And that's
01:09:41.483 --> 01:09:44.785
okay. I got to be extra gentle and kind here and patient,
01:09:45.571 --> 01:09:48.892
even though they're going to be disrespectful or whatnot. And a lot of kids
01:09:49.085 --> 01:09:52.839
that I've realized they can, they can dish it out, they can't take it,
01:09:53.112 --> 01:09:56.770
you know. So, and I love to roast. They love to be
01:09:57.270 --> 01:09:59.898
a punk and say all this stuff. And then the one time I call them
01:10:00.398 --> 01:10:03.717
out on doing something, you know, so you got
01:10:04.217 --> 01:10:07.560
to be aware, I guess, of who you're talking with. But Scenario
01:10:08.060 --> 01:10:10.900
last night was, I think it was fruitful. And the boy knew, man, I got
01:10:11.400 --> 01:10:15.320
some consequences. It's about to be not fun for the next short
01:10:15.820 --> 01:10:19.340
period of time of grounding and whatever that looks like, a punishment.
01:10:19.840 --> 01:10:22.800
But it would need to be done because you need to stop this now.
01:10:23.300 --> 01:10:25.580
I'd rather stop it when you're 12, 13 years old and say you're not doing
01:10:26.080 --> 01:10:29.480
this. There's still consequences. There's still consequences. The consequences get worse
01:10:29.980 --> 01:10:33.500
as you get an adult. So you said, you said the word respect. Respect's a
01:10:34.000 --> 01:10:38.067
hard one. Yeah. When someone disrespects you or attacks your character So
01:10:38.147 --> 01:10:41.594
which, yeah, it's a disrespect. Yeah, I believe this is an attack on character.
01:10:42.956 --> 01:10:46.579
So I think of respect in 2 different ways this way,
01:10:46.595 --> 01:10:51.084
especially when we're talking about kids, because kids are naturally disrespectful.
01:10:51.485 --> 01:10:55.284
So are they being disrespectful intentionally
01:10:55.493 --> 01:10:59.725
or unintentionally? And I think that we need to have somewhat
01:11:00.225 --> 01:11:04.512
of a self-awareness here. Oh, they're just being kids versus No, they're actually going
01:11:04.609 --> 01:11:08.001
out of their way to be rude and disrespectful.
01:11:08.420 --> 01:11:12.937
So I deal with those 2 different things. I try. And that's, I think it's
01:11:13.037 --> 01:11:14.591
layers of this gentleness.
01:11:16.412 --> 01:11:21.092
I deal with those 2 differently. Like if my child is
01:11:21.287 --> 01:11:25.737
being disrespectful unintentionally, then I've got more
01:11:26.237 --> 01:11:29.670
of a threshold with that. Right. Okay. I'm going to
01:11:30.170 --> 01:11:32.475
sit down and I'm going to explain to them. But, and this may be wrong,
01:11:32.491 --> 01:11:35.665
I don't know, but if I can, if I tell that they're
01:11:35.793 --> 01:11:38.648
being disrespectful intentionally,
01:11:39.322 --> 01:11:43.203
then I'm way quicker, way sharper to deliver a
01:11:44.117 --> 01:11:48.672
maybe a little bit more quicker and more swift discipline
01:11:49.265 --> 01:11:51.591
than I would, you know,
01:11:52.296 --> 01:11:56.707
maybe quote unquote being passive with unintentional
01:11:56.723 --> 01:12:00.155
disrespect. That kind of reminds me of like when Byron was talking a
01:12:00.655 --> 01:12:03.667
few weeks ago, right, about your kids doing things that are rude and they don't
01:12:03.699 --> 01:12:07.067
realize it's rude. That's, you know, address it. But,
01:12:07.292 --> 01:12:10.724
but if they're purposely, purposefully doing it, yeah, yeah, they know what they're doing.
01:12:10.836 --> 01:12:14.140
I'm coming in swift. And I think that deserves a little bit
01:12:14.188 --> 01:12:17.411
more, not harshness, but sternness. And you can still do that
01:12:17.652 --> 01:12:21.710
gently. Yeah. One last question. How does
01:12:22.159 --> 01:12:25.960
social media reward the opposite of gentleness
01:12:27.018 --> 01:12:30.498
and the kind of the engagement on social media? I know
01:12:30.867 --> 01:12:34.910
you don't really do social media. I get the pictures. I don't I
01:12:35.410 --> 01:12:39.392
don't engage on social media in any sort of, uh, back and forth
01:12:39.892 --> 01:12:43.248
or argument. I don't. But I see it all the time. I don't,
01:12:43.393 --> 01:12:46.446
probably out of principle, because I'm like, what fruit is going
01:12:46.946 --> 01:12:50.221
to come from this? But why, why does social media encourage kind
01:12:50.721 --> 01:12:54.559
of the opposite of gentleness, of like destroying somebody in argument?
01:12:54.640 --> 01:12:58.175
Like, you're the hero, you know, instead of— social media
01:12:58.675 --> 01:13:02.029
is the opposite, like holding up the wrong value. Which should be gentleness,
01:13:02.366 --> 01:13:06.187
but it holds up the value of somehow harshness.
01:13:06.379 --> 01:13:10.922
We equate being right, you know, to toughness
01:13:11.339 --> 01:13:15.047
and to power, right? If you're right, you have more power.
01:13:15.143 --> 01:13:18.867
So no matter— we can be as ruthless as we want to, as long
01:13:18.979 --> 01:13:22.029
as we're right, as long as we can stand up, this is the
01:13:22.529 --> 01:13:26.202
facts, right? And be able to debate and debate well. And like
01:13:26.702 --> 01:13:30.392
you said, destroy your opponent in that debate. Yeah. And somehow
01:13:31.339 --> 01:13:34.337
the world paints it Uh, empowering. Yeah,
01:13:34.417 --> 01:13:38.679
even like I was— we're reading in D-Group in Acts 17 and on
01:13:38.871 --> 01:13:42.525
Paul's missionary journeys, and it's like he goes to synagogue in every city
01:13:42.557 --> 01:13:46.339
and it says he reasoned with them from the scriptures. Yeah, he's not
01:13:46.839 --> 01:13:50.393
destroying them, arguing. He's not— he's telling them they're wrong, but he's
01:13:50.893 --> 01:13:54.254
reasoning with reason. With reason. Like, here's the evidence. It's a
01:13:54.335 --> 01:13:58.260
reasonable argument. There's, there's a place for that, but that's not what social media—
01:13:58.276 --> 01:14:02.458
you're wrong. And this is why. Yeah. And now you're ugly and now your
01:14:02.507 --> 01:14:06.208
family is, you know, it turns personal and it turns harsh,
01:14:06.592 --> 01:14:09.893
brash. Whoever has the most words, right? Whoever can stick it
01:14:10.393 --> 01:14:13.899
to that person and have the best insult, right? Usually they're
01:14:14.399 --> 01:14:17.055
the winner of the argument, which is, well, they must be right because they won
01:14:17.087 --> 01:14:21.029
that argument. And that's not true, right? There's political campaigns,
01:14:21.397 --> 01:14:24.746
same deal. There's truth and there's lies. And sometimes the lies
01:14:24.762 --> 01:14:28.650
have a lot of words that can back up and make it sound fine-sounding
01:14:29.150 --> 01:14:32.370
teaching is what scripture tells us not to fall for, right? It can sound
01:14:32.870 --> 01:14:36.350
good. The truth may just be as simple as, no, don't do it,
01:14:36.850 --> 01:14:39.670
because, you know, it's littler words, you know, so it's less argument.
01:14:40.370 --> 01:14:43.769
But someone who can paint it in a big elaborate
01:14:44.269 --> 01:14:47.550
way— people are good with words. I'm not. I'm pretty straight to the point,
01:14:48.050 --> 01:14:51.570
I feel like. But that person looks like the winner though, right? Yeah.
01:14:52.070 --> 01:14:55.230
Same with like political debates, right? Yes, same thing. It's absolute theater.
01:14:55.730 --> 01:14:57.530
Who can roast who? It didn't always used to be that way. Exactly. So there's
01:14:58.030 --> 01:15:01.423
an old clip. I think it's Ronald Reagan.
01:15:01.487 --> 01:15:05.113
He's running for president, and I can't remember who he's running against. He lost.
01:15:05.177 --> 01:15:08.995
I wouldn't know. I know he was— yeah, he lost. But the moderator
01:15:09.091 --> 01:15:12.219
asked a question. It's just them two on stage, and she asked the question— or
01:15:12.719 --> 01:15:17.914
he, I can't remember— how do you think that age
01:15:18.414 --> 01:15:22.806
is gonna be a consideration for the voter? And they're trying to insinuate
01:15:23.306 --> 01:15:27.140
that Ronald Reagan is old, and Ronald Reagan responds with Well,
01:15:27.640 --> 01:15:31.020
I don't know that age has anything to do with it. My opponent,
01:15:31.520 --> 01:15:34.060
I can't remember. I won't hold it against him that he doesn't have as much
01:15:34.560 --> 01:15:36.920
experience as me. There you go. And he kind of professional,
01:15:37.700 --> 01:15:41.320
professionally, wittingly, just like turns the question that was meant
01:15:41.820 --> 01:15:45.160
to be an attack on him. He doesn't go— he was trying to be
01:15:45.660 --> 01:15:48.460
funny. He's not saying the dude's disqualified, but he just rolled with it.
01:15:48.960 --> 01:15:52.020
Right. Reasonable debate. Right. And there's a place for
01:15:52.520 --> 01:15:54.070
that. But social media is the opposite. Anti-gentle.
01:15:55.450 --> 01:15:59.040
And nowadays, though, I mean, the last— who can
01:15:59.540 --> 01:16:02.840
draw the most blood? Who can draw the most blood? And then I—
01:16:03.340 --> 01:16:07.280
yeah, I can't stand that. That's why— another reason why you can't— I don't engage.
01:16:07.380 --> 01:16:11.500
I don't engage. Yeah, it's better not to. Yeah, stay off as
01:16:12.000 --> 01:16:14.420
much as possible. Not if you don't have a personal relationship with them. If you
01:16:14.920 --> 01:16:18.180
have a personal relationship with them, you need to— why are you talking on Facebook?
01:16:18.600 --> 01:16:21.858
Yeah, text them a call. Why are you debating on Twitter? And if you don't
01:16:22.358 --> 01:16:25.485
have a personal relationship with them, then find some friends that you can have that
01:16:25.985 --> 01:16:29.753
conversation with. Find some— well, find— have better friends on Facebook too. Yeah. Seeing stuff
01:16:30.253 --> 01:16:34.214
you don't like, don't follow them. Yeah. So the big idea, what's the big
01:16:34.714 --> 01:16:36.926
idea? What's gentleness? It's hard.
01:16:37.520 --> 01:16:41.564
It's hard. So I think I don't— this isn't the,
01:16:41.692 --> 01:16:44.902
the full, uh, picture, but I think the picture
01:16:45.402 --> 01:16:48.825
that we've, we've kind of stayed on is the correcting, right? There's,
01:16:49.149 --> 01:16:52.638
there's always going to be a need to correct. And I think that,
01:16:53.465 --> 01:16:57.131
look, if there's somebody— practice
01:16:57.261 --> 01:17:00.505
this, right? If you feel like you
01:17:01.005 --> 01:17:04.882
need to make a correction, then, then, then set
01:17:05.382 --> 01:17:08.642
your mind to it, right? And, and like I said,
01:17:08.755 --> 01:17:12.288
go into the word and try to, try to be well
01:17:12.467 --> 01:17:17.094
prepared, right? We need to understand we can't just haphazardly
01:17:17.126 --> 01:17:20.381
make corrections. But when you— when
01:17:20.574 --> 01:17:24.022
that confrontation comes about,
01:17:24.583 --> 01:17:28.560
then do it, do it in a God-fearing manner, like with
01:17:28.576 --> 01:17:30.934
respect, with reverence of who they are,
01:17:32.361 --> 01:17:35.937
with gentleness. And so that's the— that's the picture to
01:17:35.953 --> 01:17:39.161
me, is to do what I can to
01:17:39.661 --> 01:17:42.948
get better at that. Yeah. I think the big idea for me is just,
01:17:44.056 --> 01:17:46.962
uh, gentleness is not weakness, um,
01:17:47.139 --> 01:17:50.270
even though the world paints it that way. It's strength under control,
01:17:50.511 --> 01:17:53.996
right? For the good of others, for the sake of— that's right— others,
01:17:54.108 --> 01:17:58.235
right? I'm gonna have my strength under control so that others benefit
01:17:58.524 --> 01:18:02.121
from that, from that strength. So I would say from myself,
01:18:02.282 --> 01:18:05.349
um, just like every fruit of the Spirit that we've
01:18:05.849 --> 01:18:09.684
looked at is love, the very first one. Why do we love? Because God first
01:18:10.184 --> 01:18:12.827
loved us, right? And that's what each fruit of the Spirit is.
01:18:12.955 --> 01:18:16.675
Why should we do these things? Because God has given us these things,
01:18:16.740 --> 01:18:20.219
right? Like gentleness, right? He has been gentle with us. He has cared for us.
01:18:20.268 --> 01:18:24.421
He has loved us. He has given us so much grace and mercy spread
01:18:24.921 --> 01:18:28.029
out all over human history, right? Like a lamb he picks up and he holds
01:18:28.529 --> 01:18:32.327
close to his heart. He keeps us safe, and so that's why. That's why we're
01:18:32.455 --> 01:18:34.861
called to be gentle, right? And just like the rest of the fruits of the
01:18:35.361 --> 01:18:39.652
Spirit, They're a work in progress, you know, each one. It's— you
01:18:39.812 --> 01:18:42.969
can rank them in your own life however you'd like, but the point is that
01:18:43.017 --> 01:18:46.109
we got to have them. We got to be— that should be our desire is
01:18:46.157 --> 01:18:48.849
to follow these things, not things of this world, not ourselves,
01:18:48.945 --> 01:18:52.358
not all these other things that are listed. We read it in Peter,
01:18:52.647 --> 01:18:56.140
you know, he lists a whole list of bad things. Don't do these things,
01:18:56.236 --> 01:18:59.761
but address quarrelsome arguments or whatever,
01:18:59.777 --> 01:19:03.687
address them with kindness, gentleness, right? He gives us gives
01:19:04.187 --> 01:19:06.573
us the keys right here. It's, it's right here. No, I think, I think it
01:19:06.589 --> 01:19:10.548
plays really well right on into self-control,
01:19:10.741 --> 01:19:14.460
right? You have to have, uh, this is, this is basically
01:19:14.960 --> 01:19:18.740
self-control. It is having a power that you wield
01:19:19.638 --> 01:19:22.780
but are— you choose to do it in a godly
01:19:22.844 --> 01:19:26.596
way. I think one more thing to add here, uh, is with gentleness,
01:19:27.028 --> 01:19:30.203
it's hard, right? And I think I don't want listeners to think like,
01:19:30.316 --> 01:19:33.507
okay, I got, I gotta start practicing gentleness. I gotta do that.
01:19:33.587 --> 01:19:36.923
That's good, but we can get so overwhelmed with how do I, and then
01:19:36.971 --> 01:19:40.339
you're overthinking. Just pick one. If it's easier for you to
01:19:40.403 --> 01:19:44.011
think of love, then love, because as you, as you love your neighbor,
01:19:44.092 --> 01:19:47.107
love your family, and you're going to be gentle naturally. This,
01:19:47.235 --> 01:19:50.940
this one comes with experience, comes with time. Like the more you
01:19:51.084 --> 01:19:55.255
love and are peaceful and have joy in your life, it's gonna help,
01:19:55.492 --> 01:19:58.321
you know. So each one kind of— I don't say they play on each other,
01:19:58.530 --> 01:20:01.950
not necessarily one after the other, but you pick one through the Spirit,
01:20:03.282 --> 01:20:06.895
you're gonna, you're gonna grow in the other ones naturally. So if gentleness
01:20:07.395 --> 01:20:09.929
is a hard thing, maybe because you're thinking of it being weak or feminine or
01:20:09.945 --> 01:20:13.140
whatever, if it's just a hard concept, just practice being patient.
01:20:13.798 --> 01:20:17.138
If I'm patient with so-and-so in my life, I'm gonna naturally be gentle.
01:20:17.507 --> 01:20:21.730
So that's the way I see it, and they can help you to not have—
01:20:22.230 --> 01:20:24.950
is it 9 of them? 9 fruits of the Spirit? 9. Not trying to do
01:20:25.450 --> 01:20:27.830
9 things every day. Gotta make sure I check the box with this, this,
01:20:28.330 --> 01:20:31.670
this, this. Just really just pick one and you're naturally going to do the other
01:20:32.170 --> 01:20:34.510
things. Um, that's an easy way to think of it.
01:20:35.050 --> 01:20:38.390
Maybe you have to be more intentional with one or the other, but,
01:20:38.410 --> 01:20:41.570
um, yeah, that's just the way I see it. It's good.
01:20:41.580 --> 01:20:44.910
Casey, it's your turn to pray. My turn? Well, I think my dad prayed last
01:20:45.410 --> 01:20:48.300
time. He did. You weren't here. I think I prayed this time before. You skipped.
01:20:48.767 --> 01:20:51.514
Well, we let our guests pray last time. That's all right. No, I'll pray.
01:20:51.690 --> 01:20:55.658
I'll pray. Lord, we just thank you for the opportunity to dive into
01:20:55.674 --> 01:20:59.143
your word and, and, and try to have a better grasp,
01:20:59.449 --> 01:21:02.436
uh, Lord, on, on, on what it says to us. Lord,
01:21:02.902 --> 01:21:06.147
I pray that, um, that, that not only would
01:21:06.195 --> 01:21:09.375
it speak to our hearts, but we would put it into practice. Um,
01:21:09.648 --> 01:21:12.604
Lord, thank you for being gentle with us.
01:21:14.788 --> 01:21:18.334
Lord, I pray that you would just continue to, uh, to,
01:21:19.441 --> 01:21:22.826
to do that, and because we need it, I need it,
01:21:23.307 --> 01:21:26.581
uh, daily. Uh, Lord, I pray that, that, that would
01:21:26.597 --> 01:21:29.854
just flow through me and that, that would give— encourage
01:21:29.950 --> 01:21:33.287
me and, and give me, um, like I
01:21:33.336 --> 01:21:37.074
said, a better understanding to, to, to live that out, uh, in,
01:21:37.363 --> 01:21:40.508
in my daily life. Lord, uh, we thank you for,
01:21:41.021 --> 01:21:46.007
uh, this platform and the ability to just
01:21:46.507 --> 01:21:50.095
share your word. Lord, we thank you for all that
01:21:50.595 --> 01:21:54.150
you do for each of us, and, and I pray for this church
01:21:54.262 --> 01:21:58.413
and its ministry, and, and I pray that we would love
01:21:58.913 --> 01:22:01.506
people well and that we would be gentle throughout,
01:22:02.997 --> 01:22:06.491
not only within our— these four walls of the church, but, but in
01:22:06.539 --> 01:22:10.001
our daily lives as well. Lord, we love you and praise you and thank you
01:22:10.209 --> 01:22:12.528
in your Son Jesus' name. Amen. Amen.
01:22:14.102 --> 01:22:15.332
See you guys next week.