1
00:00:05,711 --> 00:00:07,514
Gene Liverman: Hello everyone
and welcome to the Volunteer
2
00:00:07,554 --> 00:00:10,662
Technologist podcast. Here we
take a look at the different
3
00:00:10,742 --> 00:00:13,695
ways that people who are
technically inclined volunteer
4
00:00:13,836 --> 00:00:17,126
outside of their primary job.
Today I'm joined by James
5
00:00:17,288 --> 00:00:21,219
Sundquist, who does landscaping
as his day job but uses his tech
6
00:00:21,219 --> 00:00:23,788
skills in a variety of
different ways. How are you
7
00:00:23,827 --> 00:00:27,147
doing, James? Hey, I'm doing
well. It's very good to meet you
8
00:00:27,147 --> 00:00:29,768
and be on the show. Nice to
meet you as well, and thank you
9
00:00:29,788 --> 00:00:32,420
for taking the time and for
reaching out and letting me know
10
00:00:32,420 --> 00:00:34,347
some of the things that you're
doing.
11
00:00:35,451 --> 00:00:37,418
James Sundquist: Yeah,
absolutely. I heard about your
12
00:00:37,439 --> 00:00:40,939
show through the Jupiter
Broadcasting plug. Oh, nice I
13
00:00:41,161 --> 00:00:42,262
was very excited about it.
14
00:00:43,145 --> 00:00:46,009
Gene Liverman: Thank you very
much. Yeah, I love their podcast
15
00:00:46,009 --> 00:00:49,527
and I was very thankful that
they were willing to mention
16
00:00:49,548 --> 00:00:51,899
mine on there, so that's a very
good thing.
17
00:00:52,341 --> 00:00:53,143
James Sundquist: Yeah,
absolutely.
18
00:00:53,445 --> 00:00:56,194
Gene Liverman: So in the email
that you sent me, you had
19
00:00:56,253 --> 00:01:00,087
mentioned doing a few different
things, including working with
20
00:01:00,106 --> 00:01:03,319
the Nextc loud project and doing
a variety of different things
21
00:01:03,359 --> 00:01:07,331
for them and doing some work in
some hacker spaces and even some
22
00:01:07,331 --> 00:01:10,263
stuff related to theater, and
so I thought maybe we would just
23
00:01:10,263 --> 00:01:13,156
kind of talk through a couple
of those things. But since a lot
24
00:01:13,156 --> 00:01:17,271
of the audience may not be as
aware of what Nextc loud is as
25
00:01:17,350 --> 00:01:20,421
much as they might know what
theater is, I thought maybe you
26
00:01:20,581 --> 00:01:23,474
could start off by just giving a
brief introduction to maybe
27
00:01:23,575 --> 00:01:26,444
what you do for Nextc loud and
then what it actually is.
28
00:01:27,307 --> 00:01:30,334
James Sundquist: Next c loud is
a company and they develop the
29
00:01:30,536 --> 00:01:35,186
premier open source file sharing
platform online. It's called
30
00:01:35,849 --> 00:01:39,081
Next c loud and it actually
forked from a previous project
31
00:01:39,481 --> 00:01:44,215
called Open Cloud and offer that
to the community, and where
32
00:01:44,234 --> 00:01:47,543
they make money is in paid
commercial support for clients.
33
00:01:48,103 --> 00:01:53,114
Very cool, yeah. So there are a
number of enthusiasts who want
34
00:01:53,134 --> 00:01:57,813
to use tools like Nextc loud.
It's a self-hosted sort of Drop
35
00:01:57,852 --> 00:02:01,362
box or Google Drive, and the
project has expanded and
36
00:02:01,424 --> 00:02:05,234
expanded to become more of a
Google Suite alternative at this
37
00:02:05,234 --> 00:02:08,622
point for not just file sharing
but associated things like
38
00:02:09,223 --> 00:02:14,913
video calls and calendars and
tasks and beyond. That's very
39
00:02:14,973 --> 00:02:18,669
cool, yeah. And so the issue
comes in. Well, what if you want
40
00:02:18,669 --> 00:02:22,362
to use Next cloud yourself and
you're not a company? So you
41
00:02:22,402 --> 00:02:25,149
might want to self-host it at
home on something like a
42
00:02:25,209 --> 00:02:29,002
Raspberry Pi, and for some
people that process might become
43
00:02:29,002 --> 00:02:33,693
very daunting. So some of the
people in the community decided
44
00:02:33,752 --> 00:02:39,489
to start working on a project
specifically Ignacio, a
45
00:02:39,568 --> 00:02:43,461
gentleman who is developing Next
c loud Pi which is sort of a
46
00:02:43,681 --> 00:02:48,915
platform for Next c loud which
includes a Debian stack, and
47
00:02:48,936 --> 00:02:54,205
then on top of Debian you have a
MariaDB and Apache web server
48
00:02:54,948 --> 00:02:58,774
and you basically have this
simple to maintain variation of
49
00:02:59,155 --> 00:03:02,388
Nextcl oud that's all in one, an
image you can just install on
50
00:03:02,427 --> 00:03:05,943
your machine, and now it's
become also available as virtual
51
00:03:05,943 --> 00:03:11,098
machine, docker container and
is all community maintained for
52
00:03:11,139 --> 00:03:12,704
people who want to run Next c
loud at home.
53
00:03:13,667 --> 00:03:15,653
Gene Liverman: I actually hadn't
heard about Nextc loud Pi. I'm
54
00:03:16,437 --> 00:03:20,448
actually in the process of
taking a kind of I guess you'd
55
00:03:20,468 --> 00:03:24,239
call it a trial installation of
Next c loud that I had and
56
00:03:24,299 --> 00:03:28,314
moving it to something slightly
more permanent, and I think I
57
00:03:28,355 --> 00:03:29,419
might check that one out.
58
00:03:30,382 --> 00:03:33,126
James Sundquist: Yeah, it's a
fantastic project. It's really
59
00:03:33,606 --> 00:03:38,540
great, and it's now switched
lead developers to Tobias, who
60
00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:43,596
is in Germany and along with
Next c loud themselves and still
61
00:03:43,596 --> 00:03:47,365
just a volunteer developer, but
helms the project along with
62
00:03:47,444 --> 00:03:50,673
other volunteers that. You can
find out more information at
63
00:03:50,673 --> 00:03:55,850
NextcloudPi. com. There's also
docs. NextcloudPi. com and the
64
00:03:55,911 --> 00:03:57,052
Next c loud Pi GitHub.
65
00:03:57,620 --> 00:04:01,092
Gene Liverman: Very cool. I
gathered from our chat that you
66
00:04:01,133 --> 00:04:03,241
do something with the
documentation for Next c loud.
67
00:04:03,260 --> 00:04:04,122
What do you do with them there?
68
00:04:04,644 --> 00:04:07,250
James Sundquist: Oh, so Next c
loud Pi was hosting all of their
69
00:04:07,250 --> 00:04:12,050
documentation on a WordPress
website at docs. NextcloudPi. com
70
00:04:12,050 --> 00:04:16,060
, and the whole process of
editing and maintaining the
71
00:04:16,100 --> 00:04:20,576
documentation was sort of
writing on one person Ignacio at
72
00:04:20,576 --> 00:04:23,886
that time, who also was
maintaining the website. And so,
73
00:04:23,886 --> 00:04:29,360
as time went on and trying to
figure out a better solution for
74
00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:34,709
getting collaboration on
documentation, I was looking
75
00:04:34,769 --> 00:04:39,425
into this forum platform called
Discourse, which is fully open
76
00:04:39,466 --> 00:04:43,500
source and it happens to be the
software that Nextc loud uses at
77
00:04:43,500 --> 00:04:48,992
help. Nextcloud. com. But also
my hackerspace at the time,
78
00:04:49,735 --> 00:04:53,805
Noisebridge, was also using
Discourse, so I became an admin
79
00:04:53,884 --> 00:04:57,937
for our Discourse instance at
Noisebridge so I could
80
00:04:58,016 --> 00:05:01,310
understand how it worked. And I
also joined the meta. discourse.
81
00:05:01,310 --> 00:05:06,514
org, which is sort of a dog food
presentation of discourse,
82
00:05:06,704 --> 00:05:09,668
where everything developed in
discourse is actually happening
83
00:05:09,829 --> 00:05:13,365
on the meta site and you can
contact developers directly. So
84
00:05:13,386 --> 00:05:16,548
I started contacting them,
giving feedback as I'm trying to
85
00:05:16,548 --> 00:05:18,725
figure out how different
features work, with the
86
00:05:18,906 --> 00:05:23,065
intention of trying to
understand discourse, because
87
00:05:23,185 --> 00:05:26,108
maybe there was something there
we could use for the Nextcloud
88
00:05:26,168 --> 00:05:29,367
Pi project in addition to the
hacker space that we didn't
89
00:05:29,408 --> 00:05:31,269
already know about. It's an
amazing platform.
90
00:05:31,670 --> 00:05:32,473
Gene Liverman: That sounds
pretty cool.
91
00:05:32,533 --> 00:05:36,153
James Sundquist: Yeah, so what
we ended up doing was, over a
92
00:05:36,353 --> 00:05:40,685
couple of years, communicating
with the discourse team, sort of
93
00:05:40,685 --> 00:05:45,571
finding different features or
bugs that weren't working as
94
00:05:45,651 --> 00:05:50,365
intended, but would allow us
eventually to basically create a
95
00:05:50,365 --> 00:05:55,946
sub forum for Nextcloud Pi
within help. nextcloud. com, and
96
00:05:55,946 --> 00:05:59,346
people within this group are
privately writing draft
97
00:05:59,427 --> 00:06:05,452
documentation which is then
being published for a static
98
00:06:05,512 --> 00:06:10,107
website, docs. nextcloudpi. com,
instead of WordPress, and all
99
00:06:10,146 --> 00:06:14,865
of the pages you're reading are
actually topics on a forum, but
100
00:06:14,886 --> 00:06:17,848
you're still seeing them in the
way you saw them previously on
101
00:06:17,867 --> 00:06:19,910
WordPress, but now you don't
have to be a part of the
102
00:06:19,930 --> 00:06:23,591
WordPress anymore. Our pool of
contributors actually comes from
103
00:06:23,591 --> 00:06:24,535
the forum itself.
104
00:06:25,064 --> 00:06:28,233
Gene Liverman: How are you
getting the static content from
105
00:06:28,735 --> 00:06:32,213
discourse into whatever you use
in to generate your static
106
00:06:32,233 --> 00:06:32,714
website?
107
00:06:32,964 --> 00:06:35,567
James Sundquist: It's based on
categories and tags. Discourse
108
00:06:35,867 --> 00:06:39,264
supports categories and tags.
You can also tag by groups. You
109
00:06:39,285 --> 00:06:44,853
can have associated tags and we
were able, thankfully, to have
110
00:06:44,932 --> 00:06:50,074
that tag grouping system match
what Ignacio had already created
111
00:06:50,074 --> 00:06:54,632
for the WordPress documentation
. So the basic layout is still
112
00:06:54,673 --> 00:06:59,615
the same, but now it all lives
within discourse as tags and
113
00:06:59,875 --> 00:07:00,196
topics.
114
00:07:00,824 --> 00:07:02,848
Gene Liverman: That's really
cool. Are the docs pages
115
00:07:02,968 --> 00:07:07,490
actually showing discourse
itself or is it pulling the data
116
00:07:07,490 --> 00:07:11,076
from discourse? It's showing
discourse itself oh nice.
117
00:07:11,418 --> 00:07:13,165
James Sundquist: Very nice.
That's really cool. And then by
118
00:07:13,226 --> 00:07:16,391
joining the discourse, and
especially if you join the
119
00:07:16,430 --> 00:07:20,074
Nextcloud Pi group, you get
access to draft documentation,
120
00:07:20,153 --> 00:07:24,185
which might be new documentation
or proposed rewrites, and it's
121
00:07:24,226 --> 00:07:26,966
a way that we're able to have
conversations freely with any
122
00:07:27,007 --> 00:07:31,392
volunteer who wants to join but
also keep that information away
123
00:07:31,473 --> 00:07:34,129
from people who just want to
read the finalized documentation
124
00:07:34,129 --> 00:07:34,129
.
125
00:07:34,812 --> 00:07:37,648
Gene Liverman: That's really
cool. Yeah, that's a really neat
126
00:07:37,648 --> 00:07:41,148
adaptation of forum software to
be able to actually turn it
127
00:07:41,228 --> 00:07:44,649
into a documentation site. That
sounds like it would be quite
128
00:07:44,769 --> 00:07:45,072
useful.
129
00:07:45,694 --> 00:07:49,007
James Sundquist: Yeah, it just
took time. It took a couple of
130
00:07:49,067 --> 00:07:53,928
years of being involved in the
Nextcloud forum and it took a
131
00:07:54,009 --> 00:07:58,952
few years of being involved with
the meta Discourse forum and
132
00:07:59,012 --> 00:08:02,911
just basically testing things on
your own instance of the
133
00:08:02,992 --> 00:08:06,853
software, and then you're
reporting bugs or proposing
134
00:08:06,954 --> 00:08:11,365
ideas, along with this other
group of people from all over
135
00:08:11,406 --> 00:08:14,048
the world who are engaged in
these same conversations.
136
00:08:14,771 --> 00:08:17,516
Gene Liverman: So what made you
want to put in so much time and
137
00:08:17,576 --> 00:08:20,622
effort to work on the docs
project for Nextcloud?
138
00:08:22,170 --> 00:08:24,055
James Sundquist: I just get
really excited about technology
139
00:08:25,697 --> 00:08:30,593
and I always am curious about
what it can do, and sometimes I
140
00:08:30,634 --> 00:08:33,985
find projects that I just feel
really amazed by the potential,
141
00:08:34,667 --> 00:08:39,957
and two of those projects would
be Nextcloud and Discourse, and
142
00:08:40,018 --> 00:08:44,791
I would just amaze at how
fantastic Discourse is like
143
00:08:44,910 --> 00:08:49,500
right now. Gradually, they've
been developing a chat platform
144
00:08:50,100 --> 00:08:52,951
which it's like hmm, I don't
know what I think about that,
145
00:08:53,494 --> 00:08:57,062
but it's exciting because that
chat platform is also developing
146
00:08:57,062 --> 00:09:01,643
Matrix support for Federation
and it also now includes
147
00:09:01,863 --> 00:09:05,033
activity pub support for topics.
This is all optional, but
148
00:09:05,053 --> 00:09:07,783
there's all these different
things being developed
149
00:09:07,943 --> 00:09:12,115
optionally and it just takes
time, but they're just truly
150
00:09:12,316 --> 00:09:15,322
amazing and the level of
customization is incredible.
151
00:09:16,211 --> 00:09:19,058
Gene Liverman: I'm a big fan of
Mastodon and I've heard about
152
00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:23,313
the activity pub support that's
being done in Discourse and I'm
153
00:09:23,333 --> 00:09:25,924
really interested to see how
that evolves every time to see
154
00:09:25,946 --> 00:09:30,480
where the real benefit comes in
If it comes to being able to
155
00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:35,095
show or share information well
through other activity pub like
156
00:09:35,215 --> 00:09:38,966
social media platforms, or if
it's just more beneficial for
157
00:09:38,986 --> 00:09:42,736
maybe sharing between two
Discourse instances. Or maybe
158
00:09:42,756 --> 00:09:45,791
it's all of the above and only
time will tell on that. But it's
159
00:09:45,791 --> 00:09:48,658
been kind of intriguing to hear
where that's going, because
160
00:09:49,039 --> 00:09:54,538
real time chat and social media
type posting and a discussion
161
00:09:54,580 --> 00:09:56,909
forum aren't usually things you
think about cramming together.
162
00:09:57,912 --> 00:10:01,518
James Sundquist: Yeah, but so
the great thing about doing this
163
00:10:01,518 --> 00:10:06,671
is it's making it easier for
people to collaborate and to
164
00:10:06,711 --> 00:10:10,859
work together, but it's also
proven to be tooling that
165
00:10:11,500 --> 00:10:16,475
bridges out beyond even just
being documentation for Next c
166
00:10:16,514 --> 00:10:21,288
loud Pi and a help forum. We
actually are also able to track
167
00:10:21,327 --> 00:10:25,399
with RSS discussion and support
questions, documentation
168
00:10:25,460 --> 00:10:31,197
questions into our chat. The
volunteer chat is Telegram and
169
00:10:31,818 --> 00:10:34,528
because people are in Telegram
rather than forcing them to move
170
00:10:34,528 --> 00:10:38,601
, we bridged Telegram into
Matrix because when Tobias took
171
00:10:38,643 --> 00:10:42,855
over, he was very interested in
Matrix, so now anyone in Matrix
172
00:10:43,297 --> 00:10:46,648
can seamlessly communicate with
anyone in Telegram and they're
173
00:10:46,727 --> 00:10:51,683
able to have discussions about
topics coming from the forum,
174
00:10:52,306 --> 00:10:55,076
and that allows us to keep all
of our support questions for
175
00:10:55,135 --> 00:10:58,227
Next c loud Pi in the forum
itself. But you can still see
176
00:10:58,248 --> 00:11:02,240
all of that from the chats if
you want. And it's really cool,
177
00:11:02,321 --> 00:11:05,029
and I think the other thing
that's really great about this
178
00:11:05,871 --> 00:11:10,945
system is it's trying to find
ways to alleviate the amount of
179
00:11:11,787 --> 00:11:16,500
dependence on a specific person
or a specific platform. So you
180
00:11:16,581 --> 00:11:21,173
don't have to have the WordPress
account, forum account and chat
181
00:11:21,173 --> 00:11:25,461
account. You could just have
the forum. But people can kind
182
00:11:25,501 --> 00:11:29,638
of live where they're
comfortable and I'm really
183
00:11:29,677 --> 00:11:32,167
appreciative of that, because
for me personally, I don't
184
00:11:32,187 --> 00:11:35,900
really want to be in the chat
actually, and I'm not. I just
185
00:11:35,941 --> 00:11:37,969
want to focus on the
documentation with the time I
186
00:11:37,989 --> 00:11:38,289
have available.
187
00:11:39,956 --> 00:11:41,703
Gene Liverman: Yeah, committing
to some of those chat,
188
00:11:42,306 --> 00:11:46,799
especially a support chat room,
can be daunting and it can be
189
00:11:46,879 --> 00:11:49,129
very, very time consuming. I'm
very thankful for the people who
190
00:11:49,129 --> 00:11:53,524
do it, but I can also see why
that's nice to not have to get
191
00:11:53,585 --> 00:11:55,009
in on that but still be able to
participate.
192
00:11:56,894 --> 00:12:00,823
James Sundquist: Yeah, it's
fantastic and it was really
193
00:12:00,864 --> 00:12:05,698
exciting this last year. So we
got the opportunity to fly out
194
00:12:05,759 --> 00:12:08,368
to Berlin and present as part of
the Next c loud conference and
195
00:12:08,388 --> 00:12:14,903
talk about the project of Next c
loud Pi, and a little bit about
196
00:12:14,982 --> 00:12:18,129
that project is that at this
point it's a very popular
197
00:12:19,993 --> 00:12:27,049
project that's used I can't
remember how many downloads it
198
00:12:27,110 --> 00:12:32,751
is anymore, but it's incredibly
robust projects that's used by
199
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,761
also Nextcloud employees for
just running Nextcloud instances
200
00:12:36,761 --> 00:12:42,208
at home for fun with friends or
family. Getting to learn that
201
00:12:42,269 --> 00:12:46,442
the company members themselves
were using our project and
202
00:12:46,482 --> 00:12:51,923
interested in our project was
really exciting. I just want to
203
00:12:51,943 --> 00:12:57,086
say how grateful I am for the
work of Nacho and Tobias to have
204
00:12:57,086 --> 00:13:00,966
made this platform, which makes
it easy to do things like take
205
00:13:00,986 --> 00:13:05,408
snapshots of your system and to
restore backups if anything goes
206
00:13:05,408 --> 00:13:11,664
wrong. This is using multiple
tools like ButterFS, r-sync, and
207
00:13:11,664 --> 00:13:16,445
it's an ongoing process of
refinement and basically, like a
208
00:13:16,445 --> 00:13:21,025
wizard, like hand-holding. It's
something that brings a lot of
209
00:13:21,105 --> 00:13:23,572
magic to the Nextcloud platform.
210
00:13:24,061 --> 00:13:26,408
Gene Liverman: Yeah, you've
gotten me pretty excited about
211
00:13:26,448 --> 00:13:28,687
it, especially touching on the
backups part, because that's
212
00:13:28,707 --> 00:13:33,410
been the one Achilles heel with
the way I had it set up the
213
00:13:33,431 --> 00:13:37,008
first time is I didn't have a
way that I felt confident in
214
00:13:37,028 --> 00:13:42,008
backups of it. It's like if I'm
pulling all my stuff in from a
215
00:13:42,349 --> 00:13:47,086
decade on plus on Dropbox and
Google Drive and other places to
216
00:13:47,086 --> 00:13:51,807
get off of those, I don't sure
want to make sure I've got my
217
00:13:51,827 --> 00:13:56,868
backups in order, because that's
decades worth of information
218
00:13:56,908 --> 00:13:59,721
and I don't want to lose it
because I was an idiot and
219
00:14:00,123 --> 00:14:04,371
didn't have battery backups or
something got corrupted, because
220
00:14:04,371 --> 00:14:07,447
my single server decided to
crap out, because I'm not
221
00:14:07,528 --> 00:14:08,730
running in a data center.
222
00:14:09,221 --> 00:14:11,802
James Sundquist: Yeah, it's
interesting the way that the
223
00:14:11,841 --> 00:14:16,620
project works. If you're running
Nextcloud Pi at home, you set
224
00:14:16,662 --> 00:14:20,863
it up and then, as part of
installation, you have access to
225
00:14:20,863 --> 00:14:26,562
an additional web UI or command
line interface. You can connect
226
00:14:26,562 --> 00:14:32,280
to your box over SSH or over
web UI outside of Nextcloud. If,
227
00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,945
say, Nextcloud is not working,
you can still go to the optional
228
00:14:35,945 --> 00:14:39,500
web UI or command line
interface and use that to
229
00:14:39,561 --> 00:14:44,712
problem solve and share logs or
to figure out what's not working
230
00:14:44,712 --> 00:14:48,552
. Yeah, you can do things like
deploy Let's Encrypt
231
00:14:48,572 --> 00:14:53,466
certificates and try to take as
many pain points as possible out
232
00:14:53,466 --> 00:14:58,447
of maintaining this box. One of
the really great things about
233
00:14:58,908 --> 00:15:03,187
running this project, which is
geared towards non-technical
234
00:15:03,346 --> 00:15:08,789
users, is that we maintain a
very conservative release cycle
235
00:15:08,970 --> 00:15:12,567
in relation to Nextcloud. You
can always update at any time,
236
00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:17,182
but you have the option to do
auto updates. Auto updates
237
00:15:17,302 --> 00:15:22,230
include Nextcloud. It includes
the system supporting Nextcloud,
238
00:15:22,230 --> 00:15:27,184
which is Debian, and MariaDB
and PHP. That way, if you don't
239
00:15:27,184 --> 00:15:30,647
touch anything, volunteers will
test all these different
240
00:15:30,807 --> 00:15:33,664
aspects of the project. That's
what we do with our time on
241
00:15:33,725 --> 00:15:37,620
GitHub. We test the new releases
, we're looking for bugs, breaks
242
00:15:37,620 --> 00:15:42,630
, before the updates are given
out and encouraged to general
243
00:15:42,671 --> 00:15:43,773
Nextcloud Pi users.
244
00:15:44,620 --> 00:15:47,566
Gene Liverman: The volunteers
are basically performing QA on
245
00:15:47,966 --> 00:15:52,033
the entire stack before it gets
released out to us radio or home
246
00:15:52,033 --> 00:15:52,193
users.
247
00:15:52,419 --> 00:15:54,105
James Sundquist: Nextcloud is
doing as well, right.
248
00:15:55,503 --> 00:15:57,528
Gene Liverman: Right, but I
meant your QA in the stack as a
249
00:15:57,589 --> 00:16:01,389
whole, like the particular
bundle that makes up Nextcloud
250
00:16:01,410 --> 00:16:01,451
Pi.
251
00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:05,283
James Sundquist: Exactly,
Nextcloud 27 was just released
252
00:16:05,905 --> 00:16:09,986
in the last two weeks, I believe
, but we just released Nextcloud
253
00:16:09,986 --> 00:16:15,369
26. Okay, anyone's welcome to
move to any version of the
254
00:16:15,428 --> 00:16:19,120
software, but if they get too
far ahead, all they have to do
255
00:16:19,341 --> 00:16:23,104
is go back to the auto update
process and wait until we catch
256
00:16:23,163 --> 00:16:23,683
up to them.
257
00:16:24,546 --> 00:16:26,594
Gene Liverman: That's cool. It's
nice to have flexibility with
258
00:16:26,995 --> 00:16:30,048
guardrails or with with a safety
net. I guess would be a better
259
00:16:30,087 --> 00:16:30,730
way of putting is.
260
00:16:30,770 --> 00:16:32,717
James Sundquist: Flexibility
with the safety net is really
261
00:16:32,879 --> 00:16:36,230
interesting things have cropped
up, especially support for
262
00:16:36,309 --> 00:16:41,792
32-bit devices, which was
actually removed and then
263
00:16:42,365 --> 00:16:47,553
reinstated, and Also things like
changes in PHP and these kinds
264
00:16:47,615 --> 00:16:51,365
of major pain point changes, or
coming up now would be the move
265
00:16:52,226 --> 00:16:54,854
To the new version of Debian
that just came out. Look warm.
266
00:16:55,414 --> 00:16:59,149
So things like this Getting
gradually worked on and iterated
267
00:16:59,149 --> 00:17:02,216
so that you, the home user,
don't have to worry about it.
268
00:17:02,778 --> 00:17:06,510
Gene Liverman: That's very nice.
So you mentioned also doing
269
00:17:06,530 --> 00:17:09,115
some work in a hacker space. I
think you said you were doing
270
00:17:09,155 --> 00:17:13,333
some teaching there. What have?
First off, what exactly is your
271
00:17:13,413 --> 00:17:16,163
hacker space kind of focused on,
and then what kind of things
272
00:17:16,182 --> 00:17:16,584
were you doing?
273
00:17:16,604 --> 00:17:19,191
James Sundquist: there. So my
original intention with the Next
274
00:17:19,211 --> 00:17:22,866
cloud Pi would actually was to
use it at this hacker space
275
00:17:22,946 --> 00:17:27,816
noise bridge and I did for three
years and it was running
276
00:17:27,875 --> 00:17:32,510
quietly being used and Basically
, people are using it to share
277
00:17:32,570 --> 00:17:37,102
files which if they weren't
access over a period of, I think
278
00:17:37,102 --> 00:17:40,032
, 90 days they would just be
deleted and the space would be
279
00:17:40,113 --> 00:17:43,423
freed up is like temporary
storage people could use in the
280
00:17:43,443 --> 00:17:48,132
space Very cool, and then after
three years no one wanted to
281
00:17:48,292 --> 00:17:52,911
help maintain it and Eventually
someone wrote over it and I
282
00:17:52,990 --> 00:17:57,987
thought that's okay, three years
is still good. And it comes
283
00:17:58,007 --> 00:18:00,734
back to the same idea that I
always have, which is I never
284
00:18:00,915 --> 00:18:05,971
want a project to live and die
on myself, and it's that's
285
00:18:06,030 --> 00:18:10,593
really difficult thing to Learn
how to do. It's really hard to
286
00:18:10,732 --> 00:18:15,047
give a project to someone else
that they can also maintain. So
287
00:18:15,086 --> 00:18:19,808
that's a big inspiration of for
me and Wanting to help people
288
00:18:19,909 --> 00:18:22,317
make that process possible in
technology.
289
00:18:23,105 --> 00:18:25,131
Gene Liverman: That's very cool.
Did you say you were doing some
290
00:18:25,131 --> 00:18:26,193
teaching at the hacker space?
291
00:18:26,213 --> 00:18:30,134
James Sundquist: Yeah, I did so.
I heard the space needed
292
00:18:30,825 --> 00:18:35,624
Fundraising support so when I
first joined around ten years
293
00:18:35,684 --> 00:18:41,181
ago, I hosted a series of
fundraisers on no budget and we
294
00:18:41,642 --> 00:18:46,420
set up recurring Donations for
the first time to the space for
295
00:18:46,460 --> 00:18:48,601
like think to ten dollars a
month. We called it the savior
296
00:18:48,621 --> 00:18:52,127
fund. It was a huge success and
Got always people to like make
297
00:18:52,167 --> 00:18:55,974
vegan food and we got all these
different artists to perform and
298
00:18:55,974 --> 00:19:01,551
have this big bonanza blowout
and groups like laughing squid
299
00:19:02,034 --> 00:19:08,028
were really helpful and it was
Fantastically fun. And my
300
00:19:08,108 --> 00:19:12,916
interest in open source just led
me to want to work with others
301
00:19:12,998 --> 00:19:16,090
and talking about Linux
Administration and so we did a
302
00:19:16,412 --> 00:19:19,804
kind of an ongoing working group
is what we called it, or people
303
00:19:19,804 --> 00:19:22,272
would show up. I think it was
once a week and then it became
304
00:19:22,925 --> 00:19:27,759
Twice a month and we would go
over like bash scripting and all
305
00:19:27,759 --> 00:19:31,750
these different kinds of things
together and At that time, yeah
306
00:19:31,750 --> 00:19:35,076
, there was assembly at that
time also being taught. It's
307
00:19:35,096 --> 00:19:36,787
really fun, very cool.
308
00:19:37,307 --> 00:19:41,275
Gene Liverman: I guess my last
question for you is how does the
309
00:19:41,275 --> 00:19:46,032
theater company fit into your
technical volunteering or your
310
00:19:46,133 --> 00:19:50,212
use of All the same products
that your products and projects
311
00:19:50,272 --> 00:19:51,997
you were talking about, right
well?
312
00:19:52,719 --> 00:19:55,416
James Sundquist: I. I have a
theater degree and creative
313
00:19:55,457 --> 00:19:58,868
writing degree from college and
Coming out of college, I worked
314
00:19:58,909 --> 00:20:01,954
for the San Francisco Mime Troop
as a sound designer and I've
315
00:20:01,994 --> 00:20:06,067
been a touring drummer and
things. But I've never been
316
00:20:06,108 --> 00:20:10,817
totally sure of how to secure
funding and put together
317
00:20:10,876 --> 00:20:16,865
projects with With others that
fully follow my own vision. So
318
00:20:16,945 --> 00:20:22,076
by being involved in DIY spaces,
hacker spaces, it let me learn
319
00:20:22,478 --> 00:20:26,634
how to use basically open
hardware things like laser
320
00:20:26,654 --> 00:20:31,587
cutters. Using Inkscape, which
is a free vector graphics tool,
321
00:20:32,548 --> 00:20:36,829
and having some work with like
the Adobe Creative Suite, I was
322
00:20:36,871 --> 00:20:42,972
able to adapt that work to using
free SVG tooling and to run
323
00:20:43,012 --> 00:20:45,875
things like laser cutters to
make my own shadow puppets, to
324
00:20:45,914 --> 00:20:50,998
make my own props, and I created
my own shows and then toured
325
00:20:51,057 --> 00:20:56,179
those shows yeah, expensively,
until COVID locked everything
326
00:20:56,239 --> 00:21:01,560
down. And it's been yeah, it's
been great to have those skills
327
00:21:02,490 --> 00:21:06,230
and the tooling is only
improving with software and
328
00:21:06,310 --> 00:21:11,679
hardware. These days. You have
yeah, you have tools like all
329
00:21:11,699 --> 00:21:15,160
these really excellent video
editing tools now and KDN Plus,
330
00:21:15,369 --> 00:21:20,152
and then working with raw in
DaVinci Resolve and on the
331
00:21:21,015 --> 00:21:25,156
lighting side of things, I do
lighting design for shows and
332
00:21:25,417 --> 00:21:33,111
for performances and there's a
free tool called QL Plus. It's
333
00:21:33,211 --> 00:21:36,451
lighting design software. It's
totally open source and you can
334
00:21:36,490 --> 00:21:39,412
do crazy things like control
your LED lighting from a MIDI
335
00:21:39,451 --> 00:21:43,598
joystick, and that's a really
fun project that is used
336
00:21:43,898 --> 00:21:45,173
professionally by theaters.
337
00:21:46,130 --> 00:21:48,634
Gene Liverman: Nice. I really
appreciate you taking the time
338
00:21:48,673 --> 00:21:52,775
to walk through what you're
doing, and I'm truly fascinated
339
00:21:52,815 --> 00:21:55,875
by the Next c loud Pi Project. I
was already interested in Nextc
340
00:21:55,894 --> 00:21:59,638
loud before we chatted, so this
is both a timely conversation
341
00:21:59,750 --> 00:22:00,994
and one that's very interesting.
342
00:22:01,589 --> 00:22:04,237
James Sundquist: Yeah, I just. I
get really excited about open
343
00:22:04,257 --> 00:22:08,598
source projects and I think most
people don't even know what
344
00:22:08,618 --> 00:22:12,671
we're talking about. But when I
learn about something, I always
345
00:22:12,730 --> 00:22:17,977
wonder how it's applicable, Like
if there's a tool, for example,
346
00:22:17,977 --> 00:22:22,797
to help us organize like maybe
we're gonna organize events once
347
00:22:22,797 --> 00:22:27,029
a month and I always wonder if
there's a open source version of
348
00:22:27,029 --> 00:22:31,869
that that's freely available or
accessible to more people. And
349
00:22:31,971 --> 00:22:34,378
once I find things, I start
testing them, digging into them,
350
00:22:34,378 --> 00:22:36,912
and really that's, in my
opinion, that's how you get
351
00:22:36,991 --> 00:22:40,494
involved in volunteer work and
you just put yourself out there
352
00:22:41,289 --> 00:22:45,392
and once you find something that
you can sync your teeth into,
353
00:22:46,034 --> 00:22:49,278
you just keep exploring it and
it's kind of this endless chasm,
354
00:22:49,278 --> 00:22:55,420
but it can be rewarding. And I
never imagined, volunteering for
355
00:22:55,420 --> 00:22:58,037
Nextcloud, for example that I
would be speaking at a
356
00:22:58,096 --> 00:23:02,876
conference in Europe this last
year. I'd never even left the
357
00:23:02,916 --> 00:23:05,855
country before, so it's just
amazing.
358
00:23:06,757 --> 00:23:08,251
Gene Liverman: That's a pretty
amazing opportunity, yeah, and
359
00:23:08,291 --> 00:23:12,198
it's fun either way. It's a fun
way to spend free time,
360
00:23:13,009 --> 00:23:19,519
especially if you feel bored
otherwise and yeah, thank you
361
00:23:19,538 --> 00:23:22,877
very much, and I wanted to give
you a minute to share anything
362
00:23:23,500 --> 00:23:26,711
additional that you wanted to
and also maybe mention how
363
00:23:26,770 --> 00:23:29,194
people could reach out to you if
they had questions or comments.
364
00:23:29,194 --> 00:23:29,194
365
00:23:30,250 --> 00:23:32,075
James Sundquist: My biggest
recommendation, if you're
366
00:23:32,115 --> 00:23:36,436
interested in open source
projects, is to start to involve
367
00:23:36,436 --> 00:23:40,218
yourself in them and I think
one way to do that is definitely
368
00:23:40,218 --> 00:23:43,315
you're listening to this
podcast, and that is a fantastic
369
00:23:43,315 --> 00:23:47,038
step and find communities of
people who are also interested
370
00:23:47,078 --> 00:23:51,431
in that, which could be like a
Matrix Chat or Discord Chat, and
371
00:23:51,431 --> 00:23:53,653
then you start looking into
these projects Like do they have
372
00:23:53,653 --> 00:23:57,893
community chats? Do they have
documentation? Do they need help
373
00:23:57,893 --> 00:24:01,670
with doing things? And maybe
there's code you contribute or
374
00:24:01,710 --> 00:24:04,913
maybe you can help with things
like translations or answering
375
00:24:04,952 --> 00:24:08,537
support questions and in doing
that you might make mistakes
376
00:24:08,596 --> 00:24:12,239
everyone does but also, if you
continue to learn and try to
377
00:24:12,338 --> 00:24:14,856
actually be helpful to the
project or even to the
378
00:24:14,916 --> 00:24:18,750
developers like maybe you can
help with testing things you'll
379
00:24:18,790 --> 00:24:22,193
grow and learn from there, and
if anyone has questions, you're
380
00:24:22,575 --> 00:24:27,075
welcome to email me. It's
S-U-N-J-A-M at james dot network
381
00:24:28,218 --> 00:24:28,218
.
382
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,654
Gene Liverman: Very cool and
I'll be sharing and include
383
00:24:31,997 --> 00:24:35,192
links to the things we talked
about and ways to reach out to
384
00:24:35,251 --> 00:24:38,453
you in the notes for this show
also, so they should show up in
385
00:24:38,755 --> 00:24:42,135
the podcast apps and on my
website and anywhere else you
386
00:24:42,155 --> 00:24:45,391
can find info about the podcast
Great, thank you so much. Before
387
00:24:45,391 --> 00:24:48,071
we go, I'd like to take a
moment to thank Kyran from the
388
00:24:47,810 --> 00:24:51,352
Mere Mortals podcast for
boosting in support for several
389
00:24:51,372 --> 00:24:55,333
of my episodes via the Fountain
podcast app. It is very much
390
00:24:55,373 --> 00:24:59,491
appreciated. This is a value for
value podcast, which means I
391
00:24:59,531 --> 00:25:03,130
rely on listeners like yourself
contributing back to fund it. As
392
00:25:03,130 --> 00:25:06,053
such, I'll never charge you to
listen, but producing and
393
00:25:06,093 --> 00:25:10,037
hosting it does cost money. If,
like Kyran, you got value from
394
00:25:10,057 --> 00:25:13,336
this episode, then I hope you'll
consider supporting its ongoing
395
00:25:13,336 --> 00:25:17,579
production by sending a boost,
like he did, or via the support
396
00:25:17,599 --> 00:25:21,314
the show link in the show notes.
You can also find the show
397
00:25:21,374 --> 00:25:24,715
notes, transcripts, and links to
things we talked about in
398
00:25:24,756 --> 00:25:29,390
today's episode at
volunteertechnologist. com. If
399
00:25:29,410 --> 00:25:31,772
you would like to come on the
show or know someone I should
400
00:25:31,813 --> 00:25:35,394
reach out to about being on the
show, please send me a message
401
00:25:35,434 --> 00:25:38,490
via one of the links at the
bottom of the show notes. Thanks
402
00:25:38,490 --> 00:25:38,990
for listening.
00:00:05,711 --> 00:00:07,514
Gene Liverman: Hello everyone
and welcome to the Volunteer
2
00:00:07,554 --> 00:00:10,662
Technologist podcast. Here we
take a look at the different
3
00:00:10,742 --> 00:00:13,695
ways that people who are
technically inclined volunteer
4
00:00:13,836 --> 00:00:17,126
outside of their primary job.
Today I'm joined by James
5
00:00:17,288 --> 00:00:21,219
Sundquist, who does landscaping
as his day job but uses his tech
6
00:00:21,219 --> 00:00:23,788
skills in a variety of
different ways. How are you
7
00:00:23,827 --> 00:00:27,147
doing, James? Hey, I'm doing
well. It's very good to meet you
8
00:00:27,147 --> 00:00:29,768
and be on the show. Nice to
meet you as well, and thank you
9
00:00:29,788 --> 00:00:32,420
for taking the time and for
reaching out and letting me know
10
00:00:32,420 --> 00:00:34,347
some of the things that you're
doing.
11
00:00:35,451 --> 00:00:37,418
James Sundquist: Yeah,
absolutely. I heard about your
12
00:00:37,439 --> 00:00:40,939
show through the Jupiter
Broadcasting plug. Oh, nice I
13
00:00:41,161 --> 00:00:42,262
was very excited about it.
14
00:00:43,145 --> 00:00:46,009
Gene Liverman: Thank you very
much. Yeah, I love their podcast
15
00:00:46,009 --> 00:00:49,527
and I was very thankful that
they were willing to mention
16
00:00:49,548 --> 00:00:51,899
mine on there, so that's a very
good thing.
17
00:00:52,341 --> 00:00:53,143
James Sundquist: Yeah,
absolutely.
18
00:00:53,445 --> 00:00:56,194
Gene Liverman: So in the email
that you sent me, you had
19
00:00:56,253 --> 00:01:00,087
mentioned doing a few different
things, including working with
20
00:01:00,106 --> 00:01:03,319
the Nextc loud project and doing
a variety of different things
21
00:01:03,359 --> 00:01:07,331
for them and doing some work in
some hacker spaces and even some
22
00:01:07,331 --> 00:01:10,263
stuff related to theater, and
so I thought maybe we would just
23
00:01:10,263 --> 00:01:13,156
kind of talk through a couple
of those things. But since a lot
24
00:01:13,156 --> 00:01:17,271
of the audience may not be as
aware of what Nextc loud is as
25
00:01:17,350 --> 00:01:20,421
much as they might know what
theater is, I thought maybe you
26
00:01:20,581 --> 00:01:23,474
could start off by just giving a
brief introduction to maybe
27
00:01:23,575 --> 00:01:26,444
what you do for Nextc loud and
then what it actually is.
28
00:01:27,307 --> 00:01:30,334
James Sundquist: Next c loud is
a company and they develop the
29
00:01:30,536 --> 00:01:35,186
premier open source file sharing
platform online. It's called
30
00:01:35,849 --> 00:01:39,081
Next c loud and it actually
forked from a previous project
31
00:01:39,481 --> 00:01:44,215
called Open Cloud and offer that
to the community, and where
32
00:01:44,234 --> 00:01:47,543
they make money is in paid
commercial support for clients.
33
00:01:48,103 --> 00:01:53,114
Very cool, yeah. So there are a
number of enthusiasts who want
34
00:01:53,134 --> 00:01:57,813
to use tools like Nextc loud.
It's a self-hosted sort of Drop
35
00:01:57,852 --> 00:02:01,362
box or Google Drive, and the
project has expanded and
36
00:02:01,424 --> 00:02:05,234
expanded to become more of a
Google Suite alternative at this
37
00:02:05,234 --> 00:02:08,622
point for not just file sharing
but associated things like
38
00:02:09,223 --> 00:02:14,913
video calls and calendars and
tasks and beyond. That's very
39
00:02:14,973 --> 00:02:18,669
cool, yeah. And so the issue
comes in. Well, what if you want
40
00:02:18,669 --> 00:02:22,362
to use Next cloud yourself and
you're not a company? So you
41
00:02:22,402 --> 00:02:25,149
might want to self-host it at
home on something like a
42
00:02:25,209 --> 00:02:29,002
Raspberry Pi, and for some
people that process might become
43
00:02:29,002 --> 00:02:33,693
very daunting. So some of the
people in the community decided
44
00:02:33,752 --> 00:02:39,489
to start working on a project
specifically Ignacio, a
45
00:02:39,568 --> 00:02:43,461
gentleman who is developing Next
c loud Pi which is sort of a
46
00:02:43,681 --> 00:02:48,915
platform for Next c loud which
includes a Debian stack, and
47
00:02:48,936 --> 00:02:54,205
then on top of Debian you have a
MariaDB and Apache web server
48
00:02:54,948 --> 00:02:58,774
and you basically have this
simple to maintain variation of
49
00:02:59,155 --> 00:03:02,388
Nextcl oud that's all in one, an
image you can just install on
50
00:03:02,427 --> 00:03:05,943
your machine, and now it's
become also available as virtual
51
00:03:05,943 --> 00:03:11,098
machine, docker container and
is all community maintained for
52
00:03:11,139 --> 00:03:12,704
people who want to run Next c
loud at home.
53
00:03:13,667 --> 00:03:15,653
Gene Liverman: I actually hadn't
heard about Nextc loud Pi. I'm
54
00:03:16,437 --> 00:03:20,448
actually in the process of
taking a kind of I guess you'd
55
00:03:20,468 --> 00:03:24,239
call it a trial installation of
Next c loud that I had and
56
00:03:24,299 --> 00:03:28,314
moving it to something slightly
more permanent, and I think I
57
00:03:28,355 --> 00:03:29,419
might check that one out.
58
00:03:30,382 --> 00:03:33,126
James Sundquist: Yeah, it's a
fantastic project. It's really
59
00:03:33,606 --> 00:03:38,540
great, and it's now switched
lead developers to Tobias, who
60
00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:43,596
is in Germany and along with
Next c loud themselves and still
61
00:03:43,596 --> 00:03:47,365
just a volunteer developer, but
helms the project along with
62
00:03:47,444 --> 00:03:50,673
other volunteers that. You can
find out more information at
63
00:03:50,673 --> 00:03:55,850
NextcloudPi. com. There's also
docs. NextcloudPi. com and the
64
00:03:55,911 --> 00:03:57,052
Next c loud Pi GitHub.
65
00:03:57,620 --> 00:04:01,092
Gene Liverman: Very cool. I
gathered from our chat that you
66
00:04:01,133 --> 00:04:03,241
do something with the
documentation for Next c loud.
67
00:04:03,260 --> 00:04:04,122
What do you do with them there?
68
00:04:04,644 --> 00:04:07,250
James Sundquist: Oh, so Next c
loud Pi was hosting all of their
69
00:04:07,250 --> 00:04:12,050
documentation on a WordPress
website at docs. NextcloudPi. com
70
00:04:12,050 --> 00:04:16,060
, and the whole process of
editing and maintaining the
71
00:04:16,100 --> 00:04:20,576
documentation was sort of
writing on one person Ignacio at
72
00:04:20,576 --> 00:04:23,886
that time, who also was
maintaining the website. And so,
73
00:04:23,886 --> 00:04:29,360
as time went on and trying to
figure out a better solution for
74
00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:34,709
getting collaboration on
documentation, I was looking
75
00:04:34,769 --> 00:04:39,425
into this forum platform called
Discourse, which is fully open
76
00:04:39,466 --> 00:04:43,500
source and it happens to be the
software that Nextc loud uses at
77
00:04:43,500 --> 00:04:48,992
help. Nextcloud. com. But also
my hackerspace at the time,
78
00:04:49,735 --> 00:04:53,805
Noisebridge, was also using
Discourse, so I became an admin
79
00:04:53,884 --> 00:04:57,937
for our Discourse instance at
Noisebridge so I could
80
00:04:58,016 --> 00:05:01,310
understand how it worked. And I
also joined the meta. discourse.
81
00:05:01,310 --> 00:05:06,514
org, which is sort of a dog food
presentation of discourse,
82
00:05:06,704 --> 00:05:09,668
where everything developed in
discourse is actually happening
83
00:05:09,829 --> 00:05:13,365
on the meta site and you can
contact developers directly. So
84
00:05:13,386 --> 00:05:16,548
I started contacting them,
giving feedback as I'm trying to
85
00:05:16,548 --> 00:05:18,725
figure out how different
features work, with the
86
00:05:18,906 --> 00:05:23,065
intention of trying to
understand discourse, because
87
00:05:23,185 --> 00:05:26,108
maybe there was something there
we could use for the Nextcloud
88
00:05:26,168 --> 00:05:29,367
Pi project in addition to the
hacker space that we didn't
89
00:05:29,408 --> 00:05:31,269
already know about. It's an
amazing platform.
90
00:05:31,670 --> 00:05:32,473
Gene Liverman: That sounds
pretty cool.
91
00:05:32,533 --> 00:05:36,153
James Sundquist: Yeah, so what
we ended up doing was, over a
92
00:05:36,353 --> 00:05:40,685
couple of years, communicating
with the discourse team, sort of
93
00:05:40,685 --> 00:05:45,571
finding different features or
bugs that weren't working as
94
00:05:45,651 --> 00:05:50,365
intended, but would allow us
eventually to basically create a
95
00:05:50,365 --> 00:05:55,946
sub forum for Nextcloud Pi
within help. nextcloud. com, and
96
00:05:55,946 --> 00:05:59,346
people within this group are
privately writing draft
97
00:05:59,427 --> 00:06:05,452
documentation which is then
being published for a static
98
00:06:05,512 --> 00:06:10,107
website, docs. nextcloudpi. com,
instead of WordPress, and all
99
00:06:10,146 --> 00:06:14,865
of the pages you're reading are
actually topics on a forum, but
100
00:06:14,886 --> 00:06:17,848
you're still seeing them in the
way you saw them previously on
101
00:06:17,867 --> 00:06:19,910
WordPress, but now you don't
have to be a part of the
102
00:06:19,930 --> 00:06:23,591
WordPress anymore. Our pool of
contributors actually comes from
103
00:06:23,591 --> 00:06:24,535
the forum itself.
104
00:06:25,064 --> 00:06:28,233
Gene Liverman: How are you
getting the static content from
105
00:06:28,735 --> 00:06:32,213
discourse into whatever you use
in to generate your static
106
00:06:32,233 --> 00:06:32,714
website?
107
00:06:32,964 --> 00:06:35,567
James Sundquist: It's based on
categories and tags. Discourse
108
00:06:35,867 --> 00:06:39,264
supports categories and tags.
You can also tag by groups. You
109
00:06:39,285 --> 00:06:44,853
can have associated tags and we
were able, thankfully, to have
110
00:06:44,932 --> 00:06:50,074
that tag grouping system match
what Ignacio had already created
111
00:06:50,074 --> 00:06:54,632
for the WordPress documentation
. So the basic layout is still
112
00:06:54,673 --> 00:06:59,615
the same, but now it all lives
within discourse as tags and
113
00:06:59,875 --> 00:07:00,196
topics.
114
00:07:00,824 --> 00:07:02,848
Gene Liverman: That's really
cool. Are the docs pages
115
00:07:02,968 --> 00:07:07,490
actually showing discourse
itself or is it pulling the data
116
00:07:07,490 --> 00:07:11,076
from discourse? It's showing
discourse itself oh nice.
117
00:07:11,418 --> 00:07:13,165
James Sundquist: Very nice.
That's really cool. And then by
118
00:07:13,226 --> 00:07:16,391
joining the discourse, and
especially if you join the
119
00:07:16,430 --> 00:07:20,074
Nextcloud Pi group, you get
access to draft documentation,
120
00:07:20,153 --> 00:07:24,185
which might be new documentation
or proposed rewrites, and it's
121
00:07:24,226 --> 00:07:26,966
a way that we're able to have
conversations freely with any
122
00:07:27,007 --> 00:07:31,392
volunteer who wants to join but
also keep that information away
123
00:07:31,473 --> 00:07:34,129
from people who just want to
read the finalized documentation
124
00:07:34,129 --> 00:07:34,129
.
125
00:07:34,812 --> 00:07:37,648
Gene Liverman: That's really
cool. Yeah, that's a really neat
126
00:07:37,648 --> 00:07:41,148
adaptation of forum software to
be able to actually turn it
127
00:07:41,228 --> 00:07:44,649
into a documentation site. That
sounds like it would be quite
128
00:07:44,769 --> 00:07:45,072
useful.
129
00:07:45,694 --> 00:07:49,007
James Sundquist: Yeah, it just
took time. It took a couple of
130
00:07:49,067 --> 00:07:53,928
years of being involved in the
Nextcloud forum and it took a
131
00:07:54,009 --> 00:07:58,952
few years of being involved with
the meta Discourse forum and
132
00:07:59,012 --> 00:08:02,911
just basically testing things on
your own instance of the
133
00:08:02,992 --> 00:08:06,853
software, and then you're
reporting bugs or proposing
134
00:08:06,954 --> 00:08:11,365
ideas, along with this other
group of people from all over
135
00:08:11,406 --> 00:08:14,048
the world who are engaged in
these same conversations.
136
00:08:14,771 --> 00:08:17,516
Gene Liverman: So what made you
want to put in so much time and
137
00:08:17,576 --> 00:08:20,622
effort to work on the docs
project for Nextcloud?
138
00:08:22,170 --> 00:08:24,055
James Sundquist: I just get
really excited about technology
139
00:08:25,697 --> 00:08:30,593
and I always am curious about
what it can do, and sometimes I
140
00:08:30,634 --> 00:08:33,985
find projects that I just feel
really amazed by the potential,
141
00:08:34,667 --> 00:08:39,957
and two of those projects would
be Nextcloud and Discourse, and
142
00:08:40,018 --> 00:08:44,791
I would just amaze at how
fantastic Discourse is like
143
00:08:44,910 --> 00:08:49,500
right now. Gradually, they've
been developing a chat platform
144
00:08:50,100 --> 00:08:52,951
which it's like hmm, I don't
know what I think about that,
145
00:08:53,494 --> 00:08:57,062
but it's exciting because that
chat platform is also developing
146
00:08:57,062 --> 00:09:01,643
Matrix support for Federation
and it also now includes
147
00:09:01,863 --> 00:09:05,033
activity pub support for topics.
This is all optional, but
148
00:09:05,053 --> 00:09:07,783
there's all these different
things being developed
149
00:09:07,943 --> 00:09:12,115
optionally and it just takes
time, but they're just truly
150
00:09:12,316 --> 00:09:15,322
amazing and the level of
customization is incredible.
151
00:09:16,211 --> 00:09:19,058
Gene Liverman: I'm a big fan of
Mastodon and I've heard about
152
00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:23,313
the activity pub support that's
being done in Discourse and I'm
153
00:09:23,333 --> 00:09:25,924
really interested to see how
that evolves every time to see
154
00:09:25,946 --> 00:09:30,480
where the real benefit comes in
If it comes to being able to
155
00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:35,095
show or share information well
through other activity pub like
156
00:09:35,215 --> 00:09:38,966
social media platforms, or if
it's just more beneficial for
157
00:09:38,986 --> 00:09:42,736
maybe sharing between two
Discourse instances. Or maybe
158
00:09:42,756 --> 00:09:45,791
it's all of the above and only
time will tell on that. But it's
159
00:09:45,791 --> 00:09:48,658
been kind of intriguing to hear
where that's going, because
160
00:09:49,039 --> 00:09:54,538
real time chat and social media
type posting and a discussion
161
00:09:54,580 --> 00:09:56,909
forum aren't usually things you
think about cramming together.
162
00:09:57,912 --> 00:10:01,518
James Sundquist: Yeah, but so
the great thing about doing this
163
00:10:01,518 --> 00:10:06,671
is it's making it easier for
people to collaborate and to
164
00:10:06,711 --> 00:10:10,859
work together, but it's also
proven to be tooling that
165
00:10:11,500 --> 00:10:16,475
bridges out beyond even just
being documentation for Next c
166
00:10:16,514 --> 00:10:21,288
loud Pi and a help forum. We
actually are also able to track
167
00:10:21,327 --> 00:10:25,399
with RSS discussion and support
questions, documentation
168
00:10:25,460 --> 00:10:31,197
questions into our chat. The
volunteer chat is Telegram and
169
00:10:31,818 --> 00:10:34,528
because people are in Telegram
rather than forcing them to move
170
00:10:34,528 --> 00:10:38,601
, we bridged Telegram into
Matrix because when Tobias took
171
00:10:38,643 --> 00:10:42,855
over, he was very interested in
Matrix, so now anyone in Matrix
172
00:10:43,297 --> 00:10:46,648
can seamlessly communicate with
anyone in Telegram and they're
173
00:10:46,727 --> 00:10:51,683
able to have discussions about
topics coming from the forum,
174
00:10:52,306 --> 00:10:55,076
and that allows us to keep all
of our support questions for
175
00:10:55,135 --> 00:10:58,227
Next c loud Pi in the forum
itself. But you can still see
176
00:10:58,248 --> 00:11:02,240
all of that from the chats if
you want. And it's really cool,
177
00:11:02,321 --> 00:11:05,029
and I think the other thing
that's really great about this
178
00:11:05,871 --> 00:11:10,945
system is it's trying to find
ways to alleviate the amount of
179
00:11:11,787 --> 00:11:16,500
dependence on a specific person
or a specific platform. So you
180
00:11:16,581 --> 00:11:21,173
don't have to have the WordPress
account, forum account and chat
181
00:11:21,173 --> 00:11:25,461
account. You could just have
the forum. But people can kind
182
00:11:25,501 --> 00:11:29,638
of live where they're
comfortable and I'm really
183
00:11:29,677 --> 00:11:32,167
appreciative of that, because
for me personally, I don't
184
00:11:32,187 --> 00:11:35,900
really want to be in the chat
actually, and I'm not. I just
185
00:11:35,941 --> 00:11:37,969
want to focus on the
documentation with the time I
186
00:11:37,989 --> 00:11:38,289
have available.
187
00:11:39,956 --> 00:11:41,703
Gene Liverman: Yeah, committing
to some of those chat,
188
00:11:42,306 --> 00:11:46,799
especially a support chat room,
can be daunting and it can be
189
00:11:46,879 --> 00:11:49,129
very, very time consuming. I'm
very thankful for the people who
190
00:11:49,129 --> 00:11:53,524
do it, but I can also see why
that's nice to not have to get
191
00:11:53,585 --> 00:11:55,009
in on that but still be able to
participate.
192
00:11:56,894 --> 00:12:00,823
James Sundquist: Yeah, it's
fantastic and it was really
193
00:12:00,864 --> 00:12:05,698
exciting this last year. So we
got the opportunity to fly out
194
00:12:05,759 --> 00:12:08,368
to Berlin and present as part of
the Next c loud conference and
195
00:12:08,388 --> 00:12:14,903
talk about the project of Next c
loud Pi, and a little bit about
196
00:12:14,982 --> 00:12:18,129
that project is that at this
point it's a very popular
197
00:12:19,993 --> 00:12:27,049
project that's used I can't
remember how many downloads it
198
00:12:27,110 --> 00:12:32,751
is anymore, but it's incredibly
robust projects that's used by
199
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,761
also Nextcloud employees for
just running Nextcloud instances
200
00:12:36,761 --> 00:12:42,208
at home for fun with friends or
family. Getting to learn that
201
00:12:42,269 --> 00:12:46,442
the company members themselves
were using our project and
202
00:12:46,482 --> 00:12:51,923
interested in our project was
really exciting. I just want to
203
00:12:51,943 --> 00:12:57,086
say how grateful I am for the
work of Nacho and Tobias to have
204
00:12:57,086 --> 00:13:00,966
made this platform, which makes
it easy to do things like take
205
00:13:00,986 --> 00:13:05,408
snapshots of your system and to
restore backups if anything goes
206
00:13:05,408 --> 00:13:11,664
wrong. This is using multiple
tools like ButterFS, r-sync, and
207
00:13:11,664 --> 00:13:16,445
it's an ongoing process of
refinement and basically, like a
208
00:13:16,445 --> 00:13:21,025
wizard, like hand-holding. It's
something that brings a lot of
209
00:13:21,105 --> 00:13:23,572
magic to the Nextcloud platform.
210
00:13:24,061 --> 00:13:26,408
Gene Liverman: Yeah, you've
gotten me pretty excited about
211
00:13:26,448 --> 00:13:28,687
it, especially touching on the
backups part, because that's
212
00:13:28,707 --> 00:13:33,410
been the one Achilles heel with
the way I had it set up the
213
00:13:33,431 --> 00:13:37,008
first time is I didn't have a
way that I felt confident in
214
00:13:37,028 --> 00:13:42,008
backups of it. It's like if I'm
pulling all my stuff in from a
215
00:13:42,349 --> 00:13:47,086
decade on plus on Dropbox and
Google Drive and other places to
216
00:13:47,086 --> 00:13:51,807
get off of those, I don't sure
want to make sure I've got my
217
00:13:51,827 --> 00:13:56,868
backups in order, because that's
decades worth of information
218
00:13:56,908 --> 00:13:59,721
and I don't want to lose it
because I was an idiot and
219
00:14:00,123 --> 00:14:04,371
didn't have battery backups or
something got corrupted, because
220
00:14:04,371 --> 00:14:07,447
my single server decided to
crap out, because I'm not
221
00:14:07,528 --> 00:14:08,730
running in a data center.
222
00:14:09,221 --> 00:14:11,802
James Sundquist: Yeah, it's
interesting the way that the
223
00:14:11,841 --> 00:14:16,620
project works. If you're running
Nextcloud Pi at home, you set
224
00:14:16,662 --> 00:14:20,863
it up and then, as part of
installation, you have access to
225
00:14:20,863 --> 00:14:26,562
an additional web UI or command
line interface. You can connect
226
00:14:26,562 --> 00:14:32,280
to your box over SSH or over
web UI outside of Nextcloud. If,
227
00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,945
say, Nextcloud is not working,
you can still go to the optional
228
00:14:35,945 --> 00:14:39,500
web UI or command line
interface and use that to
229
00:14:39,561 --> 00:14:44,712
problem solve and share logs or
to figure out what's not working
230
00:14:44,712 --> 00:14:48,552
. Yeah, you can do things like
deploy Let's Encrypt
231
00:14:48,572 --> 00:14:53,466
certificates and try to take as
many pain points as possible out
232
00:14:53,466 --> 00:14:58,447
of maintaining this box. One of
the really great things about
233
00:14:58,908 --> 00:15:03,187
running this project, which is
geared towards non-technical
234
00:15:03,346 --> 00:15:08,789
users, is that we maintain a
very conservative release cycle
235
00:15:08,970 --> 00:15:12,567
in relation to Nextcloud. You
can always update at any time,
236
00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:17,182
but you have the option to do
auto updates. Auto updates
237
00:15:17,302 --> 00:15:22,230
include Nextcloud. It includes
the system supporting Nextcloud,
238
00:15:22,230 --> 00:15:27,184
which is Debian, and MariaDB
and PHP. That way, if you don't
239
00:15:27,184 --> 00:15:30,647
touch anything, volunteers will
test all these different
240
00:15:30,807 --> 00:15:33,664
aspects of the project. That's
what we do with our time on
241
00:15:33,725 --> 00:15:37,620
GitHub. We test the new releases
, we're looking for bugs, breaks
242
00:15:37,620 --> 00:15:42,630
, before the updates are given
out and encouraged to general
243
00:15:42,671 --> 00:15:43,773
Nextcloud Pi users.
244
00:15:44,620 --> 00:15:47,566
Gene Liverman: The volunteers
are basically performing QA on
245
00:15:47,966 --> 00:15:52,033
the entire stack before it gets
released out to us radio or home
246
00:15:52,033 --> 00:15:52,193
users.
247
00:15:52,419 --> 00:15:54,105
James Sundquist: Nextcloud is
doing as well, right.
248
00:15:55,503 --> 00:15:57,528
Gene Liverman: Right, but I
meant your QA in the stack as a
249
00:15:57,589 --> 00:16:01,389
whole, like the particular
bundle that makes up Nextcloud
250
00:16:01,410 --> 00:16:01,451
Pi.
251
00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:05,283
James Sundquist: Exactly,
Nextcloud 27 was just released
252
00:16:05,905 --> 00:16:09,986
in the last two weeks, I believe
, but we just released Nextcloud
253
00:16:09,986 --> 00:16:15,369
26. Okay, anyone's welcome to
move to any version of the
254
00:16:15,428 --> 00:16:19,120
software, but if they get too
far ahead, all they have to do
255
00:16:19,341 --> 00:16:23,104
is go back to the auto update
process and wait until we catch
256
00:16:23,163 --> 00:16:23,683
up to them.
257
00:16:24,546 --> 00:16:26,594
Gene Liverman: That's cool. It's
nice to have flexibility with
258
00:16:26,995 --> 00:16:30,048
guardrails or with with a safety
net. I guess would be a better
259
00:16:30,087 --> 00:16:30,730
way of putting is.
260
00:16:30,770 --> 00:16:32,717
James Sundquist: Flexibility
with the safety net is really
261
00:16:32,879 --> 00:16:36,230
interesting things have cropped
up, especially support for
262
00:16:36,309 --> 00:16:41,792
32-bit devices, which was
actually removed and then
263
00:16:42,365 --> 00:16:47,553
reinstated, and Also things like
changes in PHP and these kinds
264
00:16:47,615 --> 00:16:51,365
of major pain point changes, or
coming up now would be the move
265
00:16:52,226 --> 00:16:54,854
To the new version of Debian
that just came out. Look warm.
266
00:16:55,414 --> 00:16:59,149
So things like this Getting
gradually worked on and iterated
267
00:16:59,149 --> 00:17:02,216
so that you, the home user,
don't have to worry about it.
268
00:17:02,778 --> 00:17:06,510
Gene Liverman: That's very nice.
So you mentioned also doing
269
00:17:06,530 --> 00:17:09,115
some work in a hacker space. I
think you said you were doing
270
00:17:09,155 --> 00:17:13,333
some teaching there. What have?
First off, what exactly is your
271
00:17:13,413 --> 00:17:16,163
hacker space kind of focused on,
and then what kind of things
272
00:17:16,182 --> 00:17:16,584
were you doing?
273
00:17:16,604 --> 00:17:19,191
James Sundquist: there. So my
original intention with the Next
274
00:17:19,211 --> 00:17:22,866
cloud Pi would actually was to
use it at this hacker space
275
00:17:22,946 --> 00:17:27,816
noise bridge and I did for three
years and it was running
276
00:17:27,875 --> 00:17:32,510
quietly being used and Basically
, people are using it to share
277
00:17:32,570 --> 00:17:37,102
files which if they weren't
access over a period of, I think
278
00:17:37,102 --> 00:17:40,032
, 90 days they would just be
deleted and the space would be
279
00:17:40,113 --> 00:17:43,423
freed up is like temporary
storage people could use in the
280
00:17:43,443 --> 00:17:48,132
space Very cool, and then after
three years no one wanted to
281
00:17:48,292 --> 00:17:52,911
help maintain it and Eventually
someone wrote over it and I
282
00:17:52,990 --> 00:17:57,987
thought that's okay, three years
is still good. And it comes
283
00:17:58,007 --> 00:18:00,734
back to the same idea that I
always have, which is I never
284
00:18:00,915 --> 00:18:05,971
want a project to live and die
on myself, and it's that's
285
00:18:06,030 --> 00:18:10,593
really difficult thing to Learn
how to do. It's really hard to
286
00:18:10,732 --> 00:18:15,047
give a project to someone else
that they can also maintain. So
287
00:18:15,086 --> 00:18:19,808
that's a big inspiration of for
me and Wanting to help people
288
00:18:19,909 --> 00:18:22,317
make that process possible in
technology.
289
00:18:23,105 --> 00:18:25,131
Gene Liverman: That's very cool.
Did you say you were doing some
290
00:18:25,131 --> 00:18:26,193
teaching at the hacker space?
291
00:18:26,213 --> 00:18:30,134
James Sundquist: Yeah, I did so.
I heard the space needed
292
00:18:30,825 --> 00:18:35,624
Fundraising support so when I
first joined around ten years
293
00:18:35,684 --> 00:18:41,181
ago, I hosted a series of
fundraisers on no budget and we
294
00:18:41,642 --> 00:18:46,420
set up recurring Donations for
the first time to the space for
295
00:18:46,460 --> 00:18:48,601
like think to ten dollars a
month. We called it the savior
296
00:18:48,621 --> 00:18:52,127
fund. It was a huge success and
Got always people to like make
297
00:18:52,167 --> 00:18:55,974
vegan food and we got all these
different artists to perform and
298
00:18:55,974 --> 00:19:01,551
have this big bonanza blowout
and groups like laughing squid
299
00:19:02,034 --> 00:19:08,028
were really helpful and it was
Fantastically fun. And my
300
00:19:08,108 --> 00:19:12,916
interest in open source just led
me to want to work with others
301
00:19:12,998 --> 00:19:16,090
and talking about Linux
Administration and so we did a
302
00:19:16,412 --> 00:19:19,804
kind of an ongoing working group
is what we called it, or people
303
00:19:19,804 --> 00:19:22,272
would show up. I think it was
once a week and then it became
304
00:19:22,925 --> 00:19:27,759
Twice a month and we would go
over like bash scripting and all
305
00:19:27,759 --> 00:19:31,750
these different kinds of things
together and At that time, yeah
306
00:19:31,750 --> 00:19:35,076
, there was assembly at that
time also being taught. It's
307
00:19:35,096 --> 00:19:36,787
really fun, very cool.
308
00:19:37,307 --> 00:19:41,275
Gene Liverman: I guess my last
question for you is how does the
309
00:19:41,275 --> 00:19:46,032
theater company fit into your
technical volunteering or your
310
00:19:46,133 --> 00:19:50,212
use of All the same products
that your products and projects
311
00:19:50,272 --> 00:19:51,997
you were talking about, right
well?
312
00:19:52,719 --> 00:19:55,416
James Sundquist: I. I have a
theater degree and creative
313
00:19:55,457 --> 00:19:58,868
writing degree from college and
Coming out of college, I worked
314
00:19:58,909 --> 00:20:01,954
for the San Francisco Mime Troop
as a sound designer and I've
315
00:20:01,994 --> 00:20:06,067
been a touring drummer and
things. But I've never been
316
00:20:06,108 --> 00:20:10,817
totally sure of how to secure
funding and put together
317
00:20:10,876 --> 00:20:16,865
projects with With others that
fully follow my own vision. So
318
00:20:16,945 --> 00:20:22,076
by being involved in DIY spaces,
hacker spaces, it let me learn
319
00:20:22,478 --> 00:20:26,634
how to use basically open
hardware things like laser
320
00:20:26,654 --> 00:20:31,587
cutters. Using Inkscape, which
is a free vector graphics tool,
321
00:20:32,548 --> 00:20:36,829
and having some work with like
the Adobe Creative Suite, I was
322
00:20:36,871 --> 00:20:42,972
able to adapt that work to using
free SVG tooling and to run
323
00:20:43,012 --> 00:20:45,875
things like laser cutters to
make my own shadow puppets, to
324
00:20:45,914 --> 00:20:50,998
make my own props, and I created
my own shows and then toured
325
00:20:51,057 --> 00:20:56,179
those shows yeah, expensively,
until COVID locked everything
326
00:20:56,239 --> 00:21:01,560
down. And it's been yeah, it's
been great to have those skills
327
00:21:02,490 --> 00:21:06,230
and the tooling is only
improving with software and
328
00:21:06,310 --> 00:21:11,679
hardware. These days. You have
yeah, you have tools like all
329
00:21:11,699 --> 00:21:15,160
these really excellent video
editing tools now and KDN Plus,
330
00:21:15,369 --> 00:21:20,152
and then working with raw in
DaVinci Resolve and on the
331
00:21:21,015 --> 00:21:25,156
lighting side of things, I do
lighting design for shows and
332
00:21:25,417 --> 00:21:33,111
for performances and there's a
free tool called QL Plus. It's
333
00:21:33,211 --> 00:21:36,451
lighting design software. It's
totally open source and you can
334
00:21:36,490 --> 00:21:39,412
do crazy things like control
your LED lighting from a MIDI
335
00:21:39,451 --> 00:21:43,598
joystick, and that's a really
fun project that is used
336
00:21:43,898 --> 00:21:45,173
professionally by theaters.
337
00:21:46,130 --> 00:21:48,634
Gene Liverman: Nice. I really
appreciate you taking the time
338
00:21:48,673 --> 00:21:52,775
to walk through what you're
doing, and I'm truly fascinated
339
00:21:52,815 --> 00:21:55,875
by the Next c loud Pi Project. I
was already interested in Nextc
340
00:21:55,894 --> 00:21:59,638
loud before we chatted, so this
is both a timely conversation
341
00:21:59,750 --> 00:22:00,994
and one that's very interesting.
342
00:22:01,589 --> 00:22:04,237
James Sundquist: Yeah, I just. I
get really excited about open
343
00:22:04,257 --> 00:22:08,598
source projects and I think most
people don't even know what
344
00:22:08,618 --> 00:22:12,671
we're talking about. But when I
learn about something, I always
345
00:22:12,730 --> 00:22:17,977
wonder how it's applicable, Like
if there's a tool, for example,
346
00:22:17,977 --> 00:22:22,797
to help us organize like maybe
we're gonna organize events once
347
00:22:22,797 --> 00:22:27,029
a month and I always wonder if
there's a open source version of
348
00:22:27,029 --> 00:22:31,869
that that's freely available or
accessible to more people. And
349
00:22:31,971 --> 00:22:34,378
once I find things, I start
testing them, digging into them,
350
00:22:34,378 --> 00:22:36,912
and really that's, in my
opinion, that's how you get
351
00:22:36,991 --> 00:22:40,494
involved in volunteer work and
you just put yourself out there
352
00:22:41,289 --> 00:22:45,392
and once you find something that
you can sync your teeth into,
353
00:22:46,034 --> 00:22:49,278
you just keep exploring it and
it's kind of this endless chasm,
354
00:22:49,278 --> 00:22:55,420
but it can be rewarding. And I
never imagined, volunteering for
355
00:22:55,420 --> 00:22:58,037
Nextcloud, for example that I
would be speaking at a
356
00:22:58,096 --> 00:23:02,876
conference in Europe this last
year. I'd never even left the
357
00:23:02,916 --> 00:23:05,855
country before, so it's just
amazing.
358
00:23:06,757 --> 00:23:08,251
Gene Liverman: That's a pretty
amazing opportunity, yeah, and
359
00:23:08,291 --> 00:23:12,198
it's fun either way. It's a fun
way to spend free time,
360
00:23:13,009 --> 00:23:19,519
especially if you feel bored
otherwise and yeah, thank you
361
00:23:19,538 --> 00:23:22,877
very much, and I wanted to give
you a minute to share anything
362
00:23:23,500 --> 00:23:26,711
additional that you wanted to
and also maybe mention how
363
00:23:26,770 --> 00:23:29,194
people could reach out to you if
they had questions or comments.
364
00:23:29,194 --> 00:23:29,194
365
00:23:30,250 --> 00:23:32,075
James Sundquist: My biggest
recommendation, if you're
366
00:23:32,115 --> 00:23:36,436
interested in open source
projects, is to start to involve
367
00:23:36,436 --> 00:23:40,218
yourself in them and I think
one way to do that is definitely
368
00:23:40,218 --> 00:23:43,315
you're listening to this
podcast, and that is a fantastic
369
00:23:43,315 --> 00:23:47,038
step and find communities of
people who are also interested
370
00:23:47,078 --> 00:23:51,431
in that, which could be like a
Matrix Chat or Discord Chat, and
371
00:23:51,431 --> 00:23:53,653
then you start looking into
these projects Like do they have
372
00:23:53,653 --> 00:23:57,893
community chats? Do they have
documentation? Do they need help
373
00:23:57,893 --> 00:24:01,670
with doing things? And maybe
there's code you contribute or
374
00:24:01,710 --> 00:24:04,913
maybe you can help with things
like translations or answering
375
00:24:04,952 --> 00:24:08,537
support questions and in doing
that you might make mistakes
376
00:24:08,596 --> 00:24:12,239
everyone does but also, if you
continue to learn and try to
377
00:24:12,338 --> 00:24:14,856
actually be helpful to the
project or even to the
378
00:24:14,916 --> 00:24:18,750
developers like maybe you can
help with testing things you'll
379
00:24:18,790 --> 00:24:22,193
grow and learn from there, and
if anyone has questions, you're
380
00:24:22,575 --> 00:24:27,075
welcome to email me. It's
S-U-N-J-A-M at james dot network
381
00:24:28,218 --> 00:24:28,218
.
382
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,654
Gene Liverman: Very cool and
I'll be sharing and include
383
00:24:31,997 --> 00:24:35,192
links to the things we talked
about and ways to reach out to
384
00:24:35,251 --> 00:24:38,453
you in the notes for this show
also, so they should show up in
385
00:24:38,755 --> 00:24:42,135
the podcast apps and on my
website and anywhere else you
386
00:24:42,155 --> 00:24:45,391
can find info about the podcast
Great, thank you so much. Before
387
00:24:45,391 --> 00:24:48,071
we go, I'd like to take a
moment to thank Kyran from the
388
00:24:47,810 --> 00:24:51,352
Mere Mortals podcast for
boosting in support for several
389
00:24:51,372 --> 00:24:55,333
of my episodes via the Fountain
podcast app. It is very much
390
00:24:55,373 --> 00:24:59,491
appreciated. This is a value for
value podcast, which means I
391
00:24:59,531 --> 00:25:03,130
rely on listeners like yourself
contributing back to fund it. As
392
00:25:03,130 --> 00:25:06,053
such, I'll never charge you to
listen, but producing and
393
00:25:06,093 --> 00:25:10,037
hosting it does cost money. If,
like Kyran, you got value from
394
00:25:10,057 --> 00:25:13,336
this episode, then I hope you'll
consider supporting its ongoing
395
00:25:13,336 --> 00:25:17,579
production by sending a boost,
like he did, or via the support
396
00:25:17,599 --> 00:25:21,314
the show link in the show notes.
You can also find the show
397
00:25:21,374 --> 00:25:24,715
notes, transcripts, and links to
things we talked about in
398
00:25:24,756 --> 00:25:29,390
today's episode at
volunteertechnologist. com. If
399
00:25:29,410 --> 00:25:31,772
you would like to come on the
show or know someone I should
400
00:25:31,813 --> 00:25:35,394
reach out to about being on the
show, please send me a message
401
00:25:35,434 --> 00:25:38,490
via one of the links at the
bottom of the show notes. Thanks
402
00:25:38,490 --> 00:25:38,990
for listening.
