The Long Shadow

WEBVTT
00:00:00.880 --> 00:00:10.640
Today, we're talking about the legacy of mental illness, not just what it means for the person living with it, but what it can leave behind for the people who love them.
00:00:10.640 --> 00:00:13.199
My guest is Suzanne Sherman.
00:00:13.199 --> 00:00:19.839
She's a writing coach, an editor, a publishing consultant, and an author.
00:00:19.839 --> 00:00:25.679
Her latest book, Living Within the Long Shadow, Surviving a Legacy of Mental Illness.
00:00:25.679 --> 00:00:31.120
Suzanne has taken something deeply personal and brought it into the light.
00:00:31.120 --> 00:00:44.640
Her story asks us to look at the family patterns we inherit, the silence we learn, the identities we build around survival, and the courage it takes to finally choose something different.
00:00:44.640 --> 00:00:49.679
Because being shaped by your past doesn't mean you have to be defined by it.
00:00:49.679 --> 00:00:55.439
And sometimes reclaiming your voice means finally telling your story.
00:00:55.439 --> 00:00:58.159
Let's welcome to the intervention.
00:00:58.159 --> 00:01:05.840
I am your host, Lyanette Talley, and you are listening to Virago 24-7.
00:01:05.840 --> 00:01:11.200
Virago is Latin for female warriors, and 24-7 is for all day every day.
00:01:11.200 --> 00:01:18.719
Virago 24-7 is a quick podcast that brings diverse women together to talk about life and art experiences in the world.
00:01:18.719 --> 00:01:31.120
Here you will find everyday groups, everyday feelings, and everyday warriors.
00:01:31.120 --> 00:01:45.280
All right, so today we have Suzanne Sherman on.
00:01:45.280 --> 00:01:48.799
Suzanne, you wear many hats.
00:01:48.799 --> 00:01:50.799
You're a writing coach.
00:01:50.799 --> 00:01:56.480
I I was looking on your website and you specifically like helping with memoirs.
00:01:56.480 --> 00:02:01.840
You are an editor, a publishing consultant, and an author.
00:02:01.840 --> 00:02:03.760
And you have written a book.
00:02:03.760 --> 00:02:09.439
Your latest book is called Living in the Long Shadow, Surviving a Legacy of Mental Illness.
00:02:09.919 --> 00:02:10.719
So welcome.
00:02:10.719 --> 00:02:12.719
Thank you very much.
00:02:12.960 --> 00:02:17.199
I'm gonna buy the book because I was reading the description of what it's about.
00:02:17.199 --> 00:02:27.919
And I love stories where there's like complex relationships and not just the complexity of it, it's like how as humans do we learn from these relationships?
00:02:27.919 --> 00:02:30.319
How do we grow and how do we heal from them?
00:02:30.319 --> 00:02:35.599
So I'm I'm looking forward to like having you describe from your point of view what the book is about.
00:02:35.599 --> 00:02:40.639
And then also I'm definitely gonna buy it when it comes out this at the end of this month.
00:02:40.639 --> 00:02:41.599
Is that correct?
00:02:41.840 --> 00:02:43.680
Yes, two weeks practically.
00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:46.719
It's the 29th of September, is the release right now.
00:02:46.719 --> 00:02:48.639
The book is available for pre-order.
00:02:48.639 --> 00:02:56.240
It is distributed by Simon and Schuster, so it's available in a lot of locations and online locations as well.
00:02:56.240 --> 00:03:00.639
But on my website, you can find the pre-orders available.
00:03:01.039 --> 00:03:02.000
Okay, perfect.
00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:05.199
So when we get off, I'm gonna go pre-order it.
00:03:05.199 --> 00:03:10.560
So I always like to find out like what got people on the path that they're on.
00:03:10.560 --> 00:03:15.680
And so since you're in the whole like the publishing world and the writing world, what got you down that path?
00:03:15.680 --> 00:03:19.919
What was your inspiration or the passion behind all of that?
00:03:20.319 --> 00:03:24.560
The path of publishing world or which just or just like your career.
00:03:24.719 --> 00:03:26.240
Like I always I'm always fascinated.
00:03:26.240 --> 00:03:27.919
Like, how did people pick their careers?
00:03:27.919 --> 00:03:32.080
Was it something that they chose and they sought after, or it just fell in their laps?
00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:36.560
I'm always curious as to what brought you to where you are today.
00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:37.280
Sure.
00:03:37.280 --> 00:03:41.520
Well, um, I would say it's definitely a combination of those.
00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:48.400
I mean, certainly it was choice, but it also was serendipity and how things lined up, how it went.
00:03:48.400 --> 00:03:55.919
I think that as far as going into publishing, it is that I would say my first step into that.
00:03:55.919 --> 00:04:00.240
Well, when I graduated in college, let me go back.
00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:03.439
In college, I majored in creative writing.
00:04:03.439 --> 00:04:07.280
So I had been writing for most of my life.
00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:10.479
You know, prior to that, I really started writing very young.
00:04:10.479 --> 00:04:15.280
And so it was natural for me to go in that direction.
00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:21.279
When I graduated from that major, I had no idea what to do.
00:04:21.279 --> 00:04:25.279
Like, like most, you know, 20-year-olds or 21, whatever.
00:04:25.279 --> 00:04:25.920
What do I do?
00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:29.199
And I've got this degree in English lit writing.
00:04:29.199 --> 00:04:33.040
So I looked for a job in publishing.
00:04:33.040 --> 00:04:35.519
And I went that route.
00:04:35.519 --> 00:04:40.560
And at the time I lived in San Francisco, there was a big publishing company.
00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:42.399
I went and took a job there.
00:04:42.399 --> 00:04:44.720
And it was very not satisfying.
00:04:44.720 --> 00:04:48.480
It was very unsatisfying, it was not what I wanted to be doing.
00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:51.199
And so one thing led to another.
00:04:51.199 --> 00:05:02.720
And ultimately, I ended up getting a job at a magazine and getting a job as a copy editor at a magazine and commuting to that job.
00:05:02.720 --> 00:05:05.920
And that was the beginning of my work in publishing.
00:05:05.920 --> 00:05:15.600
It still was being an editor and not a writer, but I was the editor of every column and section that was in that magazine.
00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:17.279
It was, of course, magazine.
00:05:17.279 --> 00:05:21.920
So it was a national magazine, and it was, it was uh, you know, it was a lot for me.
00:05:21.920 --> 00:05:24.160
At 23, I had my own office.
00:05:24.160 --> 00:05:28.560
It was very exciting, and it was also intimidating at the same time.
00:05:28.560 --> 00:05:33.279
You could be excited and intimidated at the same time, but I managed.
00:05:33.279 --> 00:05:37.040
And uh that was where my career in publishing started.
00:05:37.040 --> 00:05:51.360
Things went on from there, and I will not relate my entire journey, but I will quickly jump up to how I got into memoir because that has become my area of focus.
00:05:51.360 --> 00:06:00.560
And it was in the mid-90s when I left San Francisco and moved to Sonoma County, North Bower, north of there.
00:06:00.560 --> 00:06:02.720
I wanted to live in a different location.
00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:05.680
I wanted to live more country, not as much urban.
00:06:05.680 --> 00:06:23.519
And I was prepared to volunteer at the college here and offer myself, since I'd been an editor by then for a few years, I thought I'll just offer to be to work for the life stories writing program.
00:06:23.519 --> 00:06:29.680
And because that interested me, I kept a journal since I was 10 years old, you know.
00:06:29.680 --> 00:06:31.920
And so it was a natural fizz.
00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:33.600
Like I couldn't, I want to do this.
00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:48.000
So it turned out before I was able to tell the man who answered the phone that day, who was the director of the program, that I wanted to volunteer, he told me he was looking for a teacher.
00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:49.759
Would I be interested?
00:06:49.759 --> 00:06:53.360
And I never told him that I was ready to volunteer.
00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:56.079
And instead, I accepted the job.
00:06:56.079 --> 00:07:04.480
And I became adjunct faculty at the college for the next probably 17 years teaching memoir.
00:07:04.480 --> 00:07:09.199
And I had four classes a week with over 20 people in each of them.
00:07:09.199 --> 00:07:13.600
So a lot of people, a lot of stories, a lot of new, wonderful.
00:07:13.600 --> 00:07:15.680
It really was a great wake up.
00:07:15.680 --> 00:07:26.000
It was a wonderful, it really woke up my life as a, you know, in in written words, you know, to be able to work with other people.
00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:35.360
After being an editor and just being in that sort of solitary world of editing, it was more than refreshing.
00:07:35.360 --> 00:07:37.120
It was just so exciting to me.
00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:40.079
And that lasted for it, it still exists today.
00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:41.360
I teach memoir.
00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:43.279
I just do it independently.
00:07:43.279 --> 00:07:46.480
I have an online Zoom class on Mondays.
00:07:46.879 --> 00:07:47.040
Okay.
00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:52.639
Which, by the way, is advertised on my website, which is my name, suzannerman.com.
00:07:52.639 --> 00:07:54.240
So I still do it.
00:07:54.240 --> 00:07:56.240
I still love it all these years.
00:07:56.560 --> 00:07:56.879
Nice.
00:07:56.879 --> 00:07:57.199
Yeah.
00:07:57.199 --> 00:07:59.680
I was on your website and I did see that those services.
00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:05.759
I was like, that's I think that's really cool, especially if uh I bet it's overwhelming when you decide you want to tell your story.
00:08:05.759 --> 00:08:09.199
And so we have people like you that can help us and guide us along.
00:08:09.199 --> 00:08:16.160
When did you find out, since you've been teaching memoir, when did you want or decide that you were going to write about your life?
00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:20.160
When when was about in my late 50s?
00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:40.639
And I am that was I was 57, and I I joke that it took me 40 years and five weeks to write my memoir, because my mother died by suicide when I was 18 after suffering with a serious mental illness for 15 years.
00:08:40.639 --> 00:08:44.960
And she after that, I I sort of knew.
00:08:44.960 --> 00:08:53.120
I mean, it's hard to say, I sort of knew, but I I did know that this was a story that I wanted to write.
00:08:53.120 --> 00:08:59.519
And I also knew I had no idea where to begin or what I wanted to say, and I thoroughly was not ready.
00:08:59.519 --> 00:09:03.039
And I was not ready until the day I sat down to write.
00:09:03.039 --> 00:09:08.960
And it just happened to be that day when I was in my when I was 57.
00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:14.159
I just happened, something happened with uh I didn't plan to write the memoir.
00:09:14.159 --> 00:09:19.279
And the funny thing is, I helped, I've helped, I helped so many people write their books, right?
00:09:19.279 --> 00:09:27.120
And I always, always working with people on preparation and the you know, the structure of the book and all these things.
00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:30.799
But when it came to my own, I had to sneak up on it.
00:09:30.799 --> 00:09:32.320
I had to sneak up on it.
00:09:32.320 --> 00:09:34.240
I had to not plan it.
00:09:34.240 --> 00:09:43.039
I that is just my relationship to that story and how comfortable or not I felt about it, and yet I felt compelled.
00:09:43.039 --> 00:09:48.080
I felt compelled to write it, like it just had to happen.
00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:50.639
And and I I did.
00:09:50.639 --> 00:09:55.840
I literally wrote it in five weeks, beginning to end, 86,000 words.
00:09:55.840 --> 00:09:57.600
And I wrote the first draft.
00:09:57.600 --> 00:09:59.759
That's not to say it was finished.
00:09:59.759 --> 00:10:16.000
That draft was finished, and I turned around and started working on read redrafts, rewrites, and the rewrites were about what do I want to include, what do I not want to include, what's going to serve my story here.
00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:31.120
And I had already kept those things in mind when I was writing hard and fast during those five weeks, but it was still different to make those sit down with it to make the decisions.
00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:38.720
And I do always teach that it's important to just sort of open the gates and and run when you're starting.
00:10:38.720 --> 00:10:49.840
And then you have to come back, and that's when you bring in the the the critical mind, the the editorial mind, and say, does this fit in the book?
00:10:49.840 --> 00:10:52.799
Is this necessary to serve the story?
00:10:52.799 --> 00:11:01.519
So I did that, and that went on for the next few years of revisions, and I changed the structure of the story.
00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:08.480
I felt that that first draft, it had to that first draft had to be written the way it was.
00:11:08.480 --> 00:11:21.519
I had to write it in the completely chronological way, which of course ended then with my mother's life ending, and which was about my experience too of that.
00:11:21.519 --> 00:11:54.559
What I decided to do when I, a few drafts later, was switch it up and not let it be that linear narrative, but instead to have a linear narrative run through my life up until that age of 18 when she died, but also to have a secondary narrative that appears at the end of each chapter, and it's it's short, and it's the two weeks following my mother's death.
00:11:54.559 --> 00:12:05.039
So that is the story of that experience, and it's it's you know, it's a big experience, obviously, a mother's um death.
00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:13.759
And and so I I didn't want it to be a predictable situation, like we know that's gonna happen.
00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:31.120
And I also wanted it to sort of trade back and forth and show that let that story of what's coming when I'm 18 in a way in inform they inform those stories inform each other what's going on, my process.
00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:34.799
So anyway, you have to read the book to find out the details.
00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:35.519
Of course.
00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:37.519
And and so that goes into my next question.
00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:44.240
Without giving like so much away, what like what moments in the book capture how you grew up?
00:12:44.240 --> 00:12:48.240
Because it's about your mom and her mental illness.
00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:52.559
What was growing up like without giving, again, too much away?
00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:56.720
Yeah, that's a tough one to answer in a short way, but I'll do my very best.
00:12:56.720 --> 00:13:01.279
It's about my mom, it's about me, actually, really, because it's a memoir.
00:13:01.279 --> 00:13:14.399
So it's it's about me in that situation, growing up in a family with serious mental illness, with um my sister also had a mental illness, has she's still living.
00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:18.480
And so all of that, you know, so the chaos of that.
00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:25.360
My mother thankfully did not have a chaotic energy about her.
00:13:25.360 --> 00:13:27.120
That was not her at all.
00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:34.159
So, but my sister did um kind of light a lot of fires, you know, of chaos in the house.
00:13:34.159 --> 00:13:43.440
So that was difficult, especially with a mother who, you know, didn't have a solid grip on reality and happiness.
00:13:43.440 --> 00:14:00.240
I I describe in the book, you know, as I describe in the book, the first there was a segment of my life, the beginning of my life, which is the first four and a half years, where the was the time before my mother's illness hit.
00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:05.279
And it really was it's called sudden onset schizophrenia.
00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:09.440
She had no, she had no indication it was coming.
00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:13.279
And she was 30 years old, and I was four and a half.
00:14:13.279 --> 00:14:14.559
She had three kids.
00:14:14.559 --> 00:14:16.159
I was the middle child.
00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:19.279
We were two years apart, the the three kids.
00:14:19.279 --> 00:14:26.080
So, you know, thankfully, I have memory from that time.
00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:41.759
And I for this book, I was able to really sit down with it and and retrieve and retrieve the memories and create the environment and the story around it and what that was all like.
00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:58.080
My mother was a um a singer and musician, and she was a beautiful classical pianist and a train and a performing and trained singer, and she also was um creative in other ways as well.
00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:20.639
So it was um she was able to share with her kids, me included, prior to her becoming sick with that illness, she was able to share a lot of her joy and pleasure and interest in all of these things, musical things, nature.
00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:26.480
She taught us about, you know, a lot of so that I describe that about, you know, I mean nature.
00:15:26.480 --> 00:15:30.000
We lived in Los Angeles, but there was nature in our backyard.
00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:34.000
So with bird nests and the eaves on the trellis and stuff like that.
00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:46.240
So she was able to share, and those that those early years of my life with her really did stay inside me, or they already were inside me.
00:15:46.240 --> 00:15:57.919
You know, I think we're born within what I call an essence self, and so I think my essence self was very much part of that, all of that at that time.
00:15:57.919 --> 00:16:06.080
And what happened after that was a reshaping, you know, it sort of got redirected, things changed.
00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:09.679
The 1960s were were coming.
00:16:09.679 --> 00:16:26.240
I was born at the end of 59, so uh my mother had this episodic schizophrenia, which means she had psychosis for about a year and a half, and then it seemed to have gone away.
00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:34.639
And in that time that it went away, which we didn't know it really hadn't, but it seemed to have gone away.
00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:42.960
She uh and she actually told me she decided that she couldn't live with my father anymore because he hadn't believed her.
00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:49.360
He hadn't believed she was hearing voices, he hadn't believed she was having the delusions she was having.
00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:54.080
And she really kept it very much to herself, away from us in her bedroom.
00:16:54.080 --> 00:16:57.600
We didn't see her a lot during that time.
00:16:57.600 --> 00:17:08.079
So, but there are a few scenes that I share in the book where you know I did see a few of the times when she, you know, clearly was suffering with that.
00:17:08.079 --> 00:17:10.400
But my father didn't believe her.
00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:12.160
So she ended the marriage ended.
00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:20.000
So then my mother was a single mother, and that was a lot of my when you ask how you know, how was the childhood?
00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:26.880
Well, it's different having the mother be, you know, she was, you know, running the show of the family, right?
00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:30.160
But not in the way that many mothers might be.
00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:33.279
She made sure there was dinner on the table every night.
00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:36.160
She really still did have depression.
00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:47.599
The 60s were on, and my mother was involved in civil rights, and she was an activist, and she became, you know, she took me to candlelight peace marches and things like that as a kid.
00:17:47.599 --> 00:17:57.039
And so she was she was involved in life, and it wasn't, and I was part of her, I was kind of her tag-along.
00:17:57.039 --> 00:18:01.200
I thought I loved her, and so I was interested in it all.
00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:04.079
And uh, she answered any question I asked.
00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:08.640
So yeah, but then but then it came again, the illness came again.
00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:14.960
So I would say that you know, it happened again a few years later to her with the voices, etc.
00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:18.559
And she kept it so quiet, I never could have guessed.
00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:32.720
But she decided that so one day she simply did a lethal overdose of pills, and I was 10 years old, and yeah, so it was it came as a surprise.
00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:37.839
And I feel that my and she didn't die because I found her.
00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:44.160
We had a date that day for her to take me to go buy a um a fringe leather purse in Hollywood, you know.
00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:53.200
So you know, I was so excited, and because of that date we had scheduled, I went into her bedroom to try to wake her up.
00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:56.160
That's why she lived for the next few years.
00:18:56.160 --> 00:19:00.400
So, you know, it was a different life for me after that.
00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:12.000
I feel that things really changed, partly because of my age and I was pre-adolescent, uh, you know, and then I became a teenager and things went on.
00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:21.119
When in brief, when I was 14 years old, I reached a point where I decided this is not an environment that I can survive.
00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:23.519
I cannot live here anymore.
00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:26.960
And I knew and I I knew I had to go.
00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:37.359
And I had a therapist at that time, briefly, really for just a little over a year, and I told him I didn't think I was going to survive at home.
00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:41.519
And he took it seriously, which is good, because I may not have.
00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:42.960
I really don't know.
00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:50.240
I had a strong drive inside to survive, to want to live a good life, and I knew I couldn't be living it there.
00:19:50.240 --> 00:20:02.880
And I moved out with his help and my mother's agreement, and I moved into a couple of different situations looking for something that somewhere I could be.
00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:10.240
And it wasn't officially foster care, it was not going down that path, but it was going down a path.
00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:30.559
And ultimately my father asked me to come and stay with him, and stay with him uh turned into ultimately an invitation to live with him, and so I did end up living with him and a stepfamily for the next few years, which was high school.
00:20:30.880 --> 00:20:33.519
Yeah, that was you mentioned survival.
00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:45.039
How how did you get from that survival uh phase of life into healing and making your own life outside of what you grew up in?
00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:47.119
If that makes sense.
00:20:47.119 --> 00:20:52.720
We talk a lot about healing and growing from our childhood on the podcast, so yeah.
00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:54.880
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:56.160
Well, I really do.
00:20:56.160 --> 00:21:07.359
You know, I've really given it some thought because it definitely is is something that you know, I I mentioned essence self, and I think I was born with a spark in me.
00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:27.359
So I think some of it liter really literally was already present just in me naturally, and also my mother's personality and her love for me and us, all of us kids, even my difficult sister, was sh and her, the strength of her.
00:21:27.359 --> 00:21:36.799
So she was, even though she was struggling with what she was struggling with, she really, you know, kept it close.
00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:40.079
She played the cards close to her chest or whatever they would say.
00:21:40.079 --> 00:21:45.440
You know, so I didn't have but it was a depressing uh childhood to grow up in.
00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:48.400
So to say, how did I come out of that?
00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:50.240
How was I resilient?
00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:59.440
Well, I think what happened was uh that what she showed me in my earlier years through um music.
00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:04.000
The music, music is part of what saved me.
00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:08.799
And sure, as a teenager, I disappeared into it for years and all of that.
00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:18.160
But music and reading, I would say that stories, books, imagination took me somewhere else, took me away.
00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:19.519
I read a lot.
00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:24.000
And I played imagination games, I called them with a best friend.
00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:26.960
And you know, we'd make up things, and we just had great times.
00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:34.240
And so as a kid, and so I would say those, that's part of what I could say.
00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:41.200
I can carry those threads into the later years, more recent, later years of my life.
00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:47.519
My love of nature, my love of reading, my love of music are all still here.
00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:52.960
And I sing and I play the piano and guitar, and I study piano.
00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:57.359
Actually, I'm still taking lessons, but I'm still learning.
00:22:57.680 --> 00:22:58.319
Yeah.
00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:01.759
I've always wanted to learn piano, but I guess it's never too late.
00:23:01.759 --> 00:23:03.279
I always think, oh, it's too late.
00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:06.319
I should have started when I was younger, but so you're still learning.
00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:10.720
I would I would say this should have started when I was younger, probably sure.
00:23:10.720 --> 00:23:11.680
But you know what?
00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:17.359
I I coincidentally did that the very same year I started writing this book, Living in the Long Shadow.
00:23:17.359 --> 00:23:19.440
I'd it just happened that way.
00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:27.759
I had signed up for piano lessons, and it was around the same time that circumstances happened for me to start writing the book.
00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:35.759
So I have been in piano lessons for you know for the last eight years, and it's been great.
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:36.799
I love having that.
00:23:36.799 --> 00:23:41.440
And I feel a connection that's so sweet with my mother.
00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:51.039
I feel like spiritually, in a way, she's she's just smiling on me that I'm doing it because she was a gorgeous pianist and she was an inspiration to me.
00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:56.720
And of course, I felt always like, oh, I will never be as good as she was.
00:23:56.720 --> 00:23:58.960
And that's true, and that's okay.
00:23:58.960 --> 00:24:02.640
I am the way that I play and I am doing what I'm doing.
00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:04.079
So yeah, yeah.
00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:10.319
Were you you speak so beautifully of your mom, which is is is pretty pretty special.
00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:20.079
Uh, were you ever angry at your mom, or or you always saw her the way you're speaking of her, or was there like a process to get to where you are today?
00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:21.599
Thank you for asking that.
00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:24.400
No, I would say never angry at my mom.
00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:26.079
I've never been angry at my mom.
00:24:26.079 --> 00:24:27.599
I have never blamed.
00:24:27.599 --> 00:24:31.599
Blame has never been part of my my language at all.
00:24:31.599 --> 00:24:58.000
The one time in my life that was the hardest was hard, was around, I would say the times I was of the age that was probably, you know, 13, 14, 13 and 14 when I was, you know, doing very teenage-y things and not wanting, and angry with in a way I was not angry, but rebellious, we could say.
00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:05.039
She did not want me leaving the house at nine o'clock to go up the, you know, and go stay with so-and-so.
00:25:05.039 --> 00:25:08.400
And I was just defiant, I'm going.
00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:14.880
So I was just, I was that form of angry, but not really angry at her.
00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:24.880
I think it was just that there were no, my mother did not have, we did not have strong boundaries, you know, in my household.
00:25:24.880 --> 00:25:29.200
So I think I felt like I could, I could do it.
00:25:29.200 --> 00:25:30.559
I could get away with it.
00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:33.759
I could get away with what I wanted to do.
00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:42.240
And and then I would come back to where, you know, I would realize like that is not what I want to be doing.
00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:46.480
I don't want to live my life like this, it's not going the way I want it to go.
00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:54.400
And as I had said before, I had that inner drive to do better, to live better, not to have it go that way.
00:25:54.400 --> 00:25:56.480
But no, I never did have.
00:25:56.480 --> 00:25:59.920
Um, I my mother and I became friends.
00:25:59.920 --> 00:26:01.839
We really did develop.
00:26:01.839 --> 00:26:17.039
I never got to have an adult relationship with her since she died when I was 18, but I did fortunately get to have a good relationship with her when I was those years that I lived with my father.
00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:22.400
So, you know, however old I was 15, 16, you know, 15, 16, 17.
00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:23.680
And it mattered.
00:26:23.680 --> 00:26:36.720
My mother and I went to, for example, she gave me tickets to a concert series at UCLA, a guitar concert series, because I was studying guitar at the time.
00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:42.160
And so, and we went to these concerts together every few months.
00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:51.599
And we did the so we did, and we had we had a really good connection together that that mattered to me and and still does.
00:26:51.599 --> 00:26:53.759
And I'm grateful that that happened.
00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:56.559
It would have been so different if it had not.
00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:57.759
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:57.759 --> 00:27:04.799
Because I feel like when people think mental illness, that that person that has these mental illness, that's all they are.
00:27:04.799 --> 00:27:07.279
And it's just more complex than that.
00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:17.279
And there's some people that grow up in that environment that just instead of seeing that person as a human, your your parent as a human, they get angry and and and it festers for years.
00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:23.680
So it's nice to hear that it doesn't have to be that way and that you can hold on to the beautiful moments of that person.
00:27:24.640 --> 00:27:25.039
Right.
00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:25.680
Thank you.
00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:26.160
Yeah.
00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:26.720
Yes.
00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:33.920
I think that, and also I really I do feel that I that is part of my, that was part of my motivation for writing this book.
00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:38.559
I wanted to sh to, you know, nobody's really watching.
00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:39.839
So it's like, who's watching?
00:27:39.839 --> 00:27:41.279
Who do you want to know that?
00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:44.720
But sort of put it out into the universe, if you know what I mean.
00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:53.519
And what I what I the reasons I'm just looking at, you know, what I what I have written on my website as a note from the author, I'll read it.
00:27:53.519 --> 00:27:54.960
It's just one sentence.
00:27:54.960 --> 00:28:03.680
I wrote this book to understand what happened, to vindicate my mother, and to honor those who continue with courage.
00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:05.039
And that really is true.
00:28:05.039 --> 00:28:08.240
And I really felt like I I did that.
00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:09.920
I did all of those things.
00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:18.000
I went into the story deeply to really connect the dots and come to understand what happened.
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:33.599
And it was the understanding of my mother, as in a way, I got a real way, I got to know her better by spending all the time that I did writing this book and really going over the details and over the incidents and all of it.
00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:56.400
And I really came to to know her better, strange, as strange as that may seem, and I came to under and through that understanding of her and her perspective and her situation and the compassion that I have for her, for it, and for how hard she tried for it to work and to go.
00:28:56.400 --> 00:29:04.319
You know, it really is something that I get to live with today in a good way.
00:29:04.319 --> 00:29:12.400
And and I feel that writing this book turned out to be a healing that I didn't see coming.
00:29:12.400 --> 00:29:14.640
I didn't think I needed it, frankly.
00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:17.920
I thought I already was there, I've already, I, you know, I'm fine.
00:29:17.920 --> 00:29:19.039
You know, no.
00:29:19.039 --> 00:29:20.480
But it was.
00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:25.680
There were there were places that healing happened that I didn't see coming.
00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:46.400
And when I said to vindicate my mother, I also have to say I think people don't really, you know, it's a hard piece to swallow, I think, to accept that, you know, suicide and my mother really had a very serious problem of no, no possible exit.
00:29:46.400 --> 00:29:53.680
There was no, she had really a difficult choice on hand, you know.
00:29:53.680 --> 00:29:58.240
And and, you know, and so how do you deal with that, you know?
00:29:58.240 --> 00:30:06.400
And in her letter, she asked us to understand, and she asked us to forgive her in her suicide note, which was a letter.
00:30:06.400 --> 00:30:11.039
And and I never did forgive her.
00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:18.319
And, you know, I mean, growing up, and and I mean growing up, I mean in the my twenties, 30s, 40s.
00:30:18.319 --> 00:30:20.640
I wouldn't say it was forgiveness, no.
00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:24.720
And I would say that understanding was always there.
00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:42.400
And that since writing writing this book and the thorough, the thorough story of it all, my understanding of how it went for her and that ultimate choice that she made, it just it's a hard, it's a hard pill to swallow.
00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:43.200
Do you know what I mean?
00:30:43.200 --> 00:30:48.160
Like, how can I understand something that's so hard to live with?
00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:51.039
You know, sure I miss her all the time.
00:30:51.039 --> 00:30:54.319
I would miss her no matter how she died.
00:30:54.799 --> 00:30:55.759
Yeah, yeah.
00:30:55.759 --> 00:30:58.559
Well, that's that's beautiful, Suzanne, really.
00:30:58.559 --> 00:31:04.319
Um, when what what message do you want people to be left with when they're after they're done?
00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:05.599
I read this book.
00:31:05.599 --> 00:31:09.279
What feeling or what message do you want to leave with the reader?
00:31:09.599 --> 00:31:22.000
I would like people to, I think I'd like people to know that to not dismiss for one, don't dismiss people with mental illness as that being all they are.
00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:29.519
Don't be sure that suicide is always a really bad thing to do.
00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:46.640
I mean, it in many most cases it is, but give give a moment to look into see if there's understanding for it, if it's in your family, if you're a suicide loss survivor of someone in your family, you know, see if you can go with understanding.
00:31:46.640 --> 00:32:18.000
And as far as having uh, you know, finding, I think that I want people to understand that it's possible to really connect with and be in touch with the beauty in your own life, you know, in your from your own, deep inside yourself, no matter what hardships you've faced going forward, you know, in your life since you were a young child, just to know that there is goodness here for all of us.
00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:27.200
And we need to practice the ability to change our focus, to to open to it and find it.
00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:37.279
And that is what I have done, and I hope others will will uh see that in my story and take some of it into their own lives.
00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:38.960
Yeah, yeah, thank you.
00:32:38.960 --> 00:32:41.920
And again, um, when I say I'm gonna do something, I'm gonna do it.
00:32:41.920 --> 00:32:44.319
So I'm definitely gonna purchase that book and read it.
00:32:44.559 --> 00:32:45.039
Oh good.
00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:46.559
Yeah, definitely.
00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:55.359
I I as as sad as these stories can be, I feel like I like to learn from people's stories and their situation, even if it's a heavy topic.
00:32:55.359 --> 00:33:05.119
Is there anything that I haven't asked today or that you really wanted to like talk about or hoping to talk about today that we haven't touched on?
00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:07.759
There there are many aspects in my book.
00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:17.680
I I could just say that, you know, if anybody who reads the book resonates with living with a stepfamily, there's a lot of lessons that come out of that experience.
00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:37.920
And what I what I dealt with there, it's like my story was not only what happened before then, but also the time period of living with another family who lived a very different lifestyle and and a very judgmental stepmother and on and on and that whole dilemma of what went on there.
00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:54.480
So I just, yeah, I guess I just would like it to be known that, you know, we we don't always, we don't walk a single path, you know, but we we get to carry whatever our spirit can be that holds our our own strength in going through it.
00:33:54.480 --> 00:34:08.079
And it's important not to not to hold blame for anybody, but to be to know that we have the ability to to yeah, to change our perspective and take the steps that we want to.
00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:08.800
Oh yes.
00:34:09.199 --> 00:34:10.239
That's all I wanted to say.
00:34:10.480 --> 00:34:11.519
I think that's beautiful.
00:34:11.519 --> 00:34:19.360
And and it's easier said than done, but I've been on that path because I too had a stepmom that didn't didn't, yeah.
00:34:19.360 --> 00:34:23.280
I I yes, I've learned just to let it lie where it was.
00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:32.880
She passed away two years ago, and I said I I won't speak ill of her, but um, but yeah, it's it's hard to overcome that and and it's hard to to go down that path.
00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:36.639
But once you're there, it's just like, okay, I I can breathe.
00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:52.639
So yeah, you know, being being an adult and realizing that these people were not behaving the way like they were not behaving really well, you know, that my stepmother, when I have actually thought about how old was she then?
00:34:52.639 --> 00:35:01.039
And I think, my God, she was like 38 or she was 42, really, and she spoke like that to me at that time.
00:35:01.039 --> 00:35:06.159
Yeah, my stepmother died two years ago, also, and uh, she will never read this book.
00:35:06.159 --> 00:35:09.920
And that was a concern to me for quite a while while I was writing it.
00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:13.440
She could be reading, she could read this at some point, but she won't.
00:35:13.599 --> 00:35:14.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:16.079
Anyway, thank you.
00:35:16.159 --> 00:35:17.440
I want to go there's a little bit.
00:35:17.679 --> 00:35:18.400
Well, I can't wait.
00:35:18.400 --> 00:35:22.880
I cannot wait to read the book now because I'm sure I'll connect with that.
00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:24.880
Suzanne, thank you so much.
00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:27.360
Thank you so much, Suzanne.
00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:32.559
And it's uh Suzanne Sherman.com to get all your services and books.
00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:36.639
Living in the long shadows, surviving a legacy of mental illness.
00:35:36.639 --> 00:35:45.199
Look at that, it's beautiful, and the roses have a very important part in the story, but that would be a spoiler alert.
00:35:45.280 --> 00:35:46.800
So I'm not gonna We don't want that.
00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:47.679
We don't want that.
00:35:47.679 --> 00:35:49.360
Go buy it, go buy it.
00:35:49.440 --> 00:36:00.400
And you said it's anywhere, Amazon, it's on Amazon, Barnesand Noblebookshop.org, and some directly from Simon and Schuster through their website as well.
00:36:00.400 --> 00:36:06.320
And so Amazon and all of those places right now, the book is available for pre-order.
00:36:06.320 --> 00:36:17.760
And so you can through my website, I have all the pre-order links there, or you can go directly to any of those locations, including Amazon, which you know has it right there for pre-order.
00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:25.440
And it'll be available as an e-book, print book, and an audio book is coming out quite soon.
00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:27.760
Oh, are you voicing the audio?
00:36:28.239 --> 00:36:31.039
No, actually, I hired a narrator for it.
00:36:31.039 --> 00:36:31.440
Yeah.
00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:34.000
So I'm waiting to hear how all that is.
00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:34.400
Yes.
00:36:34.639 --> 00:36:35.840
Yeah, wonderful.
00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:37.840
Well, thank you, Suzanne, for coming on.
00:36:37.840 --> 00:36:41.679
I really, really love hearing people's stories, and you've been a pleasure.
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:44.320
Oh, it's been nice talking with you as well.
00:36:44.320 --> 00:36:46.320
And I'm I really appreciate you having me.
00:36:46.320 --> 00:36:46.880
Thank you.
00:36:47.119 --> 00:36:47.519
Thank you.
00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:48.559
Thank you so much.
00:36:48.559 --> 00:36:50.559
I look forward to reading the book.
00:36:50.559 --> 00:36:51.199
All right.
00:36:51.519 --> 00:36:52.159
Very good.
00:36:52.159 --> 00:36:53.840
I look forward to hearing from you.
00:36:53.840 --> 00:36:54.480
Bye-bye.
00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:54.800
Hi.
00:36:54.800 --> 00:36:57.119
I'll leave you with this.
00:36:57.119 --> 00:37:03.599
Your past may have shaped your story, but it does not get to write your ending.
00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:08.639
Step out of the shadow, reclaim your voice, and take up your space.
00:37:08.639 --> 00:37:14.880
Thank you so much for listening to Virago247.
00:37:14.880 --> 00:37:19.039
If you haven't done so already, go ahead and hit that subscribe button.
00:37:19.039 --> 00:37:21.760
And please give us a five-star rating.
00:37:21.760 --> 00:37:32.719
Don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Virago24 underscore seven and on Facebook at Virago247.
00:37:32.719 --> 00:37:35.679
And just connect with us to hear your story.
00:37:35.679 --> 00:37:37.679
We'd love to hear from you.