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Speaker 1: This podcast is recorded on gadigal Land Always was, always will be Aboriginal Land.
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Speaker 2: Hey Jix, I'm sal and it feels so weird just ending it there. But this is two broad Chicks, the show that shares life lessons and tips to help make you rich in life. And today Al's not with me because she's had to jet off to Melbourne, so she will be very sorely missed. But I'm not alone because I am joined by the absolutely incredible doctor Leela Landowski, Award winning neuroscientists, lecturer at the University of Tasmania and Vice President of Science and Technology Australia.
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Speaker 3: Welcome, Thank you.
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Speaker 2: I am so excited to have you on the pod today because we're talking all things productivity, memory, popcorn, brain, So I feel like I've got a lot of questions for you that I'm like, yeah, look, the chicks are going to get a lot from this, but so am I. So I'm excited to dive me in.
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Speaker 3: It sounds fabulous. I can't wait to talk about my favorite body parts.
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Speaker 2: So it's good, the best one and honestly needs more attention. But before we get into the juicy questions, what's your life lesson?
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Speaker 3: Of the week. Look, I think my life lesson of the week is probably like a life lesson of all time for me, and I've learned that the richness of life for me comes from the people in it, not the stuff I have, not not anything else that's material, But it's actually the connections with people, making new friends, and having those really great people in your life.
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Speaker 2: Honestly, I think you kind of get that understanding more and more as you grow up, because I know, for me personally, in my early twenties, I was so and I guess I still am, but you know, very career oriented and really thought about that has been the biggest marker of having a successful life. And then the more amazing things I've experienced, which are all so great and I'm so grateful for. It is like the relationships and friendships that you have at the end of the day that me and the most right.
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Speaker 3: Truly absolutely and you want to share them with people who have the same values, who actually want the best for you. I think young when we're younger, we just we're friends with whoever's at school with. We don't necessarily have things in common with them, And I think as we get older as well, we meet people who are on the same path of life or have those things in common with us, And I think you can form some really robust friendships because you have those things in.
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Speaker 2: Common exactly, instead of relationships by proximity, it's based on.
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Speaker 3: Values, yes, exactly.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that. What a beautiful way to start the episode. My life lesson is something that I saw when I was scrolling this week that I actually thought was kind of relevant to today's topic, and it's that our skin is the largest sensory organ on our body, which makes sense and seems super obvious, right, But then I realize that's why it's so important to prioritize materials that make you feel good and make you feel comfortable, like whether that is your bedding or your clothes, and being really conscious of that and how that has like a huge impact on your mental health and what's going on. Whereas I never really would have thought about that, or you know, I guess gave that the attention that it needs. That comfort truly is key.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think the interesting thing about our skin is it's kind of like, as far as our body is concerned, it's like a low priority thing. So if you're stressed it's going to take blood flow away from the skin, and you're more likely to have pimples or dry skin, or your hair might fall out or go gray. So it's also like, yeah, it's really influenced by what's happening in our lives. Holy shit.
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Speaker 2: See that's the thing I feel like every time I like go to the doctor about something, they're like, it's stress like care. But we'll get into that more in this episode. But it's wild that it really is.
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Speaker 3: It's all connected, yeah truly. Yeah.
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Speaker 2: Okay, well, let's get into the juicy stuff of the episode before we really dive in. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got into neuroscience.
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Speaker 3: I never wanted to be a neuroscientist. I never planned to be a neuroscientist. I always wanted to work in developing therapies for things. So when I was at a grades for school camp, I caught my first fish and I remember holding it and it was disgusting. It was covered in slime and this slime was kind of like forming webbing between my fingers, and I just yeah, I'd heard of things like shark lever oil or like fish extracts that could be helpful for people, and I remember holding it thinking, Oh, wouldn't it be cool if one day, when I grow up, I could find a fish extract that could help people. And that was really my naive idea that I took all the way through to Union because I didn't have any mentors. I didn't have anyone who could kind of guide me in life. So I did a ultimately did a degree in medical research. And when I was doing that degree, I was sitting in a neuroscience lecture and the neuroscientist that was giving that lecture was talking about some of his work and I remember looking at it thinking I maybe have a different way to interpret what he's talking about, and maybe I wanted to really test this idea that I'd had, And I ended up testing that I did doing a doctorate in neuroscience and then making that my career. And the cool thing is is that through that work, I discovered a natural protein that could regenerate nerves in the skin, and that protein can be found in fish. So it's almost like life came full circle.
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Speaker 2: Oh my god, the fish oil prophecy came true. I love how that's the mind blowing, life altering realizations you were having when you were in here.
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Speaker 3: For it's one of those things that like, unless you've been exposed to something, you don't know that you might want to do it as a career. So we're totally influenced by what we see on TV. And yeah, pretty spit is awesome, Like who wouldn't want to be her?
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Speaker 2: True? So so true. But I think it's really interesting because, like we were saying, all of these things are connected, like when we were talking about the relationship between your brain and your body and your mental health and how a lot of these things that we think are different parts of our body and they have their own functions, which they do, but they truly are all very, very related. And in you know, today's society, we're so productivity and output focused. But has our constant need and chase for productivity made us less productive?
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Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, because I mean, our brain can only do so much, and we're constantly pushing it and pushing it and trying to do more and more with what we've got right, And one of the big things that happens is we're constantly context switching, so we're doing one thing and then we're doing the next thing, And I mean just think of it like this. If you're let's say you're in a kitchen making a meal, and then every five minutes so you have to go to another kitchen to start making another meal. You never finished the first one, and then you go to the next one. You've got to figure out what this new recipe is and you've got to you know, it takes time, and that's basically kind of what the brain is doing each time we context, which we've got to take time time to refill what we call our working memory with whatever it is that we're doing. And like it just it basically costs the brain, so it takes a lot of energy and it's just really inefficient. So we're never multitasking. What we're doing is really task switching, and it's just really inefficient for the brain.
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Speaker 2: Wow, that's so interesting because typically we would have seen like having a skill to multitask is like a badge of honor, and that women are especially expected to multitask and juggle multiple things at once. And it's like, yeah, that's probably good to be able to do to a point, but a lot of the time it's to our detriment.
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Speaker 3: Right, And look, honestly, we never really had to multitask as much as we did today. Like, yeah, back in the day, you'd have a village that would bring up a family, you know, you wouldn't just be trying to do everything and trying to juggle everything. And I think this not just the emotional load, but the need to get kids to an appointment or worry about it, you know, worry about sports or all of these different things. We're worrying about, navigating traffic, all of these things take a lot of mental load, and that has consequences. You know, like we've gone so far away from the way we as social beings were meant to live. You know, we're really we've forced ourselves into this nuclear family, and we put all this pressure on ourselves and you know, maybe our significant other to get things done. But we've actually never, really in human history, had to do that until recently.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, Like so many of the things that occupy our brain space and sources of stress are things that probably didn't even exist fifty one hundred and thousands of years ago, right exactly.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, now we have to worry about getting stuck in traffic or you know, is there going to be a breakdown on the road or all of these things that you know are part of our life now but never used to be part of our lives. And being certain places at a certain time, you know, before you just do things as they arise and go with the flow, you'd have that kind of we call it time affluence. So when you feel like you've got control of your time, then you feel happier and you're less stressed. But in today's society, where you're running from one thing to the next and you don't feel like you have any control over things, that's a stressor and it's not good for us.
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Speaker 2: You did a really interesting TED talk that I wanted to tap into a little bit, and you spoke about hacks for learning faster. So what are six hacks to learn faster?
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Speaker 3: They sound really logical, but when I explain it will make more sense. So attention, alertness, sleep, repetition, breaks, and mistakes. So in order to learn something, you need to be paying attention to it right. You can't be distracted. You've got to give it your attention. Then you'll you've got to be alert. You know, if you're tired and sleepy, then it's going to be hard to pay attention. You need to keep repeating the thing that you're doing, because basically the brain doesn't want to change, and in order for you to learn, your brain is physically changing. It's making these brand new little connections called signapses between neurons when you're learning right, and the brain isn't going to want to put all that energy into making these new connections if it's something that you've only done once. And so when you're repeating something, it's basically flagging to your brain and saying, hey, this is important because it keeps coming up over and over again. So let's actually physically change and make that process easier and more efficient. So repetition is really critical when it comes to learning. Sleep is important too, So you know, we used to think that sleep was a bit of a waste of time, you know, spending a third of our lives in suspended animation, just like chilling.
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Speaker 2: But that's how I want to Okay, what's up that, Let's bring that percentage up.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And it's like it's like actually critical for learning. So when we're doing things throughout the course of the day, we're putting things into a short term memory storage. So part of our brain, called the hippo campus is really just keeping track of what we're doing and what's sort of important. So if I was to ask you what you were doing this morning or what you had for breakfast, you're using your hippo campus to recall that information. And when we go to sleep, basically all of those important things throughout the course of the day get flitted off into other parts of our long term memory storage. So if you don't sleep, the short term stuff doesn't get converted into long term memory. So you know, that's why it's so important to sleep. You have to think of sleep almost as is really the time when your brain is changing and actually doing the consolidation the actual learning.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's doing its file story.
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Speaker 3: Yeah that time. Yeah, we often feel bad when we make a mistake, and we kind of feel a bit anxious and it's not a nice feeling. Yeah, but really mistakes are really important when it comes to learning. So when we make a mistake and we feel a bit anxious and you know, we're feeling uncomfortable, what's actually happening is our brain is releasing all of these neurochemicals that are actually helping us to pay attention. That's where the agitation comes from. It's actually creating these neurochemicals to make us focus on the thing that we just did wrong. And I guess the next part of that is it's also opening up this little window of neuroplasticity. So whatever we do next, the brain's much more likely to be a bit of a sponge and take up. So we make a mistake, we feel a bit anxious, but it's our brain's way of preparing us to pay attention. And then we do it again and hopefully get it right. And when we get it right, our brain releases other chemicals like dopamine, and it makes that memory stick into place. So when you're trying to learn something, don't just wait until you're ready to test your knowledge. Just keep testing yourself as you go. Like if you're trying to play a sport, get it wrong, you know, make it difficult. Let's say you're trying to play basketball, take a weird shot at a weird angle and test yourself. Allow yourself to make that mistake because that way, yes, you might get it wrong at first, but also you're making your brain remember how to do it right a lot better and it becomes a lot more efficient. Let's say you're trying to learn a speech or something. Don't wait until you think you've memorized it all to actually say it all out loud. Just actually say it when you don't know it. You'll actually have a much better chance of consolidating that information. I think we often tell ourselves that when we make a mistake, it's a bad thing, but actually it's the best thing we can do for learning. We really need to embrace that discomfort and that feeling and lean into it.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, do you have any hacks for anybody who, especially like in a corporate workplace kind of or any sort of workplace scenario, when you make a mistake, what should be the next step to really take advantage of some of those chemical reactions that are happening in your brain that because I know for me, if I make a mistake, that feeling kicks in. But sometimes that can be quite overwhelming and it feels more like debilitating rather than being like, Okay, how do I jump on and like take advantage of this and see it is a bit of a superpower? Like what would be the next best steps on using that as a learning opportunity instead of like spiraling and potentially being mean to yourself about the mistake. That you made.
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Speaker 3: I think knowledge is power. I think knowing that that discomfort is actually your brain just helping you to be the best version of yourself, and leaning into that it makes it easier. If you don't know that, then of course you're just going to be like, this feels horrible, let's walk away from it and let's just not try again. Yeah, but if you know that actually it's just a good thing ultimately, then you can sort of lean into it a bit better.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, all right, cool, So did we get through all six? We had alertnessleep breaks.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: Breaks. So, especially in you know, if you're twenty five or above, we know that if you take if you try and do something else as as soon as you've finished learning something, those brand new memories are really fragile, and they're really easy to get like overwritten in your brain, and so you really need to spend time taking a break and just letting yourself mull over whatever it is that you've done. So let's say you've just sat down to learn something and then you finished learning, and then you go and scroll on your phone. That's pretty much the worst thing you can do because you're using those you know, you're putting irrelevant information into your brain, and you have a much bigger chance of sort of overwriting those new memories, but actually taking a break and then just chilling out. And when you're in that space of just chilling out, you're actually replaying the things that you've just done. You're not aware of it necessarily, but you're actually thinking through it, you're actually processing it. And when you're processing it, it's actually another form of repetition, so you're just actually practicing it. So an example of this is they did a study in people who are learning how to play the piano, and when you take a break, like a twenty second break after learning that little sequence, your brain is replaying it afterwards, and you're just actually repeating that information in your mind, and it does that really really quickly. So it's a really useful thing to do. One thing I didn't mention when we're talking about alertness, So it's really important to be alert in order for you to learn. And one of the best things to do is actually just get a little bit of exercise, get your heart rate pumping. So let's say you've got an important meeting that you need to or you're about to sit down to learn, go for a run, or run up and down the stairs, or do star jumps, do whatever it is to get those chemicals. These neurochemicals, they don't just affect your body, they affect your brain as well, and they help you feel more alert and pay attention to what you're about to do.
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Speaker 2: Oh, I like that. Is it cardio especially? Is that the sort of exercise that people should be doing, or is there anything.
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Speaker 3: Well, you really whatever it is to get your heart rate up? Okay, yeah, so you really want to get those things like adrenaline and more adrenaline released in order to make you feel, you know, a bit more peppy and help you pay attention. That's a really good hack.
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Speaker 2: I like that because it's super achievable. And I think something else that I've seen just doing research and stuff for the show is I read an article by neuroscientists. I find it and I'll link it in the show notes. But she was saying that actually, when we take breaks is when our brain can be creative, and that boredom truly is what fuels creativity. And because we're constantly pacifying ourselves with media, whether that's scrolling on your phone or always having a podcast playing or always listening to music, or going into the shower and putting YouTube on, whatever it is. Like, we have that constant chase now and we don't ever let our brains be quiet exactly.
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Speaker 3: We don't let ourselves be bored, and being bored is one of the greatest things we can do for creativity. So part of our brain we call the default mode network. It doesn't matter what it's called, but it's basically where our brain starts wandering and we start thinking about ideas and connecting them in like weird and abstract ways. That's what we come up with our creative ideas. You know, the genius moments happens when you're bored, like when you're in the shower wherever it might be. And this is maybe a little bit of a kind of weird concept, but bear with me for a second. So in human history, the time where people weren't suddenly worrying about shelter and worrying about food and finally actually had time to be bored, that's when human civilization really blossomed. So the Bronze Age is a time where they got figured out to mix these metals together and develop bronze, and it allowed them to make these tools, like you know, like things to use for agriculture, to make buildings, all those sorts of things. So suddenly it was really easy to get lots of food, was suddenly great to make lots of shelter. All those things that used to be problems on a daily basis now no longer were there. So suddenly people had time to be bored. They had time to work on artisan crafts. That's where mathematics was developed, that's where language was developed. It all came from humans not being in a fair state anymore and actually being able to be bored and therefore be creative. So, really, boredom is where the root of human civilization came from. It's such an important thing, and we're always we don't let ourselves be bort It's almost like we can't sit down without just scrolling our phones. Were always looking for a way to fill the time.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, Which is that like an anxiety response or is it like a habit loop that we've kind of just found ourselves in.
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Speaker 3: Like why is that Probably a bit of both? Yeah, Because I mean social media it gives us what we want. It's acute, interesting cat fit. It's a funny bit of content. It's an interesting podcast, it's interesting, it's a great way to fill the time, and being bored can sometimes feel uncomfortable. So it's almost like we're self soothing ourselves. If you don't have to be bored, then why would you bother?
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Speaker 2: Yeah? Okay, And a lot of these things impact memory, right because, like you said, if you're not getting enough sleep, or if we're constantly pacifying our souls as some of these things, we're not giving our brain the chance to do that busy work. It needs to file things away. But I wanted to ask you what about the concept of false memories, Like what's with that, because you know, sometimes you'll be like, no, I swear I sent that birthday message. I swear I did, and then you look and you're like, no I didn't.
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Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean at the end of the day, we sort of think of our we like to think of our memories being like CCTV footage, like it's a perfect recollection of things, but it's not. It's really a collection of memories that we then try and piece together when we trying to recall what might have happened at a certain thing. And that also means that it's really vulnerable to change as well. So the longer we spend after an event has happened and we try and recall what happened at that event, then the more likely it is that those memories can be changed and can be influenced by things that we've done. So let's just say we went to a party a couple of weeks ago, and I have my version of what happened at that party, but you tell me that you remember that something else happened, and we have that conversation, then my brain might start to sort of piece that into the memory of what happened, even though I never was there, I never actually saw it. And we see that all the time. And that's sort of why we have this thing called a statute of limitations in the court process when someone has experienced something traumatic or whatever it might be, and they're trying you know, I guess because those memories aren't as trustworthy as time goes on, it's hard to use that as evidence.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, like, our contexts and perceptions and other influencers can really impact our memory totally. Yeah, that's so interesting. I think that's very validating in a way because it happens more and more as you get older as well, So I think it can be a little bit unnerving, but it's good to know that it is, you know, sort of just a natural process. What about popcorn brain?
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Speaker 3: Popcorn brain? Ah, so it's this, well, I guess it's a pop term that sort of mean describes how our brain sort of bounces about from one thing to the next. Our attention is constantly shifting and popping around. But really that's also kind of because of social media a lot. So if it think about it like this, so our brain is really good at learning from things that we do all the time. And if we're constantly using our phones and seeing one bit of information and then seeing a different kind of bit of information, we're constantly actually context switching. We're looking at one thing and looking at the next thing. So we're actually training our brain to have bad attention. We're training it to be able to move from one thing to the next, because that's what you know, that's what we're doing. And so the more you do that, the easier it becomes. And so our brain will just naturally move from one thing to the next.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: Right, And because in some of the things that I've read around popcorn brain a lot of people talk about it in relation to women, and that a lot of women experiencing Why is.
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Speaker 3: That in particular, Well, I guess the more you have other stresses in life, or the more burdens you might have in other places, the more you're likely to have a fragmented attention span. So let's say you've got a huge emotional load trying to figure out things in the house and juggling family or whatever it might be, or you know, we're hustling, we're doing lots of different jobs. Then you're already a bit stressed, right, and so that burden of stress makes a lot harder to pay attention to things. It actually fragments our ability to pay attention. So when you're really stressed in life, it affects the brain. And it's not just a small effect. It's actually quite significant. So let's say you're worrying about paying the bills, and you're worrying about covering rent, and you're worrying about getting from A to B, and you're worrying about everything else at home, and you're worrying about your job. That is a chronic stress, and over time it changes our brain structure and the way we behave So one of the things it does is it makes your hippocampus, the brain's memory center, shrink, like brain cells actually die and so your memory gets worse.
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Speaker 2: So stress is shrinking our brains.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, and well actually makes one part of the brain bigger. It makes the emotion out of the brain bigger, which is why we get more emotional and more visceral and just a bit more reactive to things because it's I mean, that's it makes sense. Like if you're if you have if you've constantly got stress in your life, then the part of your brain that's involved with dealing with stress wants to get bigger so you can deal with the next stress that comes along.
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Speaker 2: Oh my god, Yeah, you've just blown my mind. I just had like a that was a real like one plus one equals too moment. Yeah.
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Speaker 3: But it's also like we have to remind ourselves it's not that we've changed as a person. It's not that we've become more angry or aggressive. It's just that our brain is doing its best to try and cope with that situation. So it's not our fault. So we need to be kind to ourselves as well.
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Speaker 2: Can you reverse some of those things?
00:25:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, you definitely can. So, I mean, I guess the rule of thumb is that the longer you've been stressed and the longer it's going to take to bounce back. But some of the great things to do to reduce the level of stress or to reduce the impact of stress are things like exercise. So exercise helps you make new brain cells. In the hippo camphus it makes it bigger. You can do things like mindfulness or meditation practices, which are really great as well. You can do breathing techniques. You might have heard the physiological sigh, So it's where you do this. It's really the best way to de escalate a panic attack. Actually, so do me through. You do two inhales through your nose and then a long exhale. So I'll show you in a second. But an example of it is imagine, you know when a kid might might be throwing a tantrum, or you're crying really really hard, and you just you go, that's actually the physiological side. We don't even know we're doing it. We're actually self soothing ourselves. Yeah, so it's two inhales through the nose. So the second inhale is just like fully filling up the lungs with air and then a long exhale, so you have to spend a longer time exhaling. It has to be in that order, otherwise it doesn't really work. So let's do it together. So two inhales and then a long exhale and then we'll do it again.
00:26:57
Speaker 2: Okay, so in heal through the nose, exhal through them out. Let's do it together.
00:27:01
Speaker 3: Takes ready r WHOA do you feel that?
00:27:21
Speaker 1: Yeah?
00:27:22
Speaker 3: I mean I do it three times, you'll watch your heart rate go down. I already feel way more chill.
00:27:27
Speaker 1: Like that's yeah, you.
00:27:29
Speaker 2: Better do that every part just halfway through.
00:27:32
Speaker 3: And if you do it for five minutes, then it has like really measurable effects on how your body is functioning. Just it's like the greatest hack almost, but it's not a hack. It's what our body does anyway. Yeah.
00:27:42
Speaker 2: But it's being conscious of that too, because if you're like you know, like you said, if you're crying or if you're spiraling a little bit and your body's doing it once, it's like sure, I'm sure that helps. But if you're conscious of it, and say, if you're in a really stressful work situation, you're like, I'm going to go for a walk quickly, to go to the bathroom quickly and spend a few minutes doing that. I'm sure being more conscious about it and actually giving that the time and the space to also do it properly, it can really have a solid impact.
00:28:11
Speaker 3: Absolutely. Another thing that's really great for stress as well is socializing, like actually just hanging out with people that you like people. It has to be people that you like. If you don't like it, it's not going to be not stressful. But when you're hanging out with people that you like that you like, it does a lot of things, but one of them is that you know you're talking about it, so you're I guess it takes the fear away from whatever situation you're in because you feel safe because you're in a safe space. And also you're releasing all of these neurochemicals, things like oxytocin. People call it the love hormone, but it's more than that. It's yes, it makes you feel closer to whoever you're talking to, but also it releases that reduces a level of our stress hormone cortisol, So it actually like part of the reason why we feel better is and feel less stressed is because those stress hormones go down. Yeah, And you know, at the end of the day, we know that the people who live happiest for the longest have the best social connections. And so really, you know, having great friendships or having just people that you trust that you can connect with, really has a profound influence on your life. We know that people who will lonely live less long. In fact, they're about thirty percent more likely to die. It's about as bad as having a pack a day of cigarettes. It's really not good for us. Like we're designed to be a social species. We're meant to be hanging out.
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Speaker 2: Wow, no way, that is actually wild. And because even though we're more and more connected to people now, there have been studies that show that young people especially are feeling more emotions of loneliness and feelings secluded from people. Right, So it's so important to make time for those social connections, but also pay attention to how you feel after you spend time with someone, right, Because somebody might be a friend because you've had history with them, or like we said earlier, like you've gone to school with them, or maybe you work with them. But pay attention to how you feel. Do you feel stressed and anxious afterwards? Because it might be a friendship, but it's like, is it good for your nervous system?
00:30:13
Speaker 3: Exactly. Yeah, You've got to trust that feeling, and it has to be face to face. You don't get that from texting, you don't get that from digital connection. It has to be a face to face thing. Another thing that happens when we're face to face, like right now, Yeah, we're not aware of it, but our brain are starting to synchronize, Like certain parts of our brain are synchronizing the brain ways, which the first time I heard that, I thought it was a bunch of whack, what is this? But it's the science is solid, Like we're doing that. We're actually synchronizing in parts of our brain.
00:30:45
Speaker 2: So is that why you like finish people's sentences and stuff when you're together in person, or like you do feel like you start to talk similar to or like behave in similar ways to your friends and more that you spend time with them.
00:30:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe it there's a bit of that. Yeah, because you're actually kind I have been sinking you know often when you say you're on the same wavelength. Maybe there's a bit more to that than we realize.
00:31:05
Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow, oh my god. I was just thinking. I was like, so, if our brains are sinking up currently, does that mean that I'm becoming smarter or I'm making you dumber? I feel bad.
00:31:16
Speaker 3: I'm learning from you. I mean I already learned where to get the best blazer in Canberra.
00:31:19
Speaker 2: So yeah, through we were saying off air before that, if you go to Canberra, go to the Vinni's there because all the politicians let go of their old blazers at the op shops and they're all incredible quality and like fifteen bucks genius.
00:31:33
Speaker 3: Yeah see see, I love this. I wish I knew this yesterday though. Anyway, that's right, we'll.
00:31:38
Speaker 2: Just go to Canberra again. And I also read that humans now have an attention span of forty seven seconds, but it takes twenty three minutes to refocus on a task when you become distracted. So do you have any hacks that are backed by neuroscience to help us stay focused or regain focus.
00:31:56
Speaker 3: Well, we've just got to train our mental muscles. Basically, we've got to actually force ourselves to pay attention to things. So one thing that you could do is just, let's say twenty minutes a day, you put your phone away, put every distraction away that you possibly have, and just focus on whatever it is that you're trying to focus on. And the more you do that, the easier it will get. Other ways that you can sort of train your focus is through things like focused attention meditation, which is basically a type of meditation where you're just you know, you might be focusing on one body part at a time, but by doing that, you're focusing your attention and it just helps train that mental muscle. Other things you could do, I mean, I always love having a pad next to me when I'm working because when an idea pops into my head or something that I was meant to do pops into my head, I write it down. And it's really important to write it down because it takes it out of your working memory, so you're not you know, we've got this finite amount of working memory. It's basically the working memories is pretty much this really really really short term memory that stores about, you know, the information that allows you to do what you're doing in that moment. So my working memory has told me I'm aware of what I just said so I don't repeat it. It's like just that really it's in the moment, right, Yeah. And if you're also thinking about, oh, I need to do this thing, you're going to keep thinking about it. But by putting it down on paper, you can take it out of that working memory. You can just focus on what you're doing, so things like yeah, So it allows you to give that attention to the thing that you're doing, giving it the attention it deserves.
00:33:30
Speaker 2: And does it need to be physical, like should you be writing it down on a piece of paper or can you.
00:33:35
Speaker 3: Type it out? You can type it out, Okay, it's just.
00:33:37
Speaker 2: A matter of like acknowledging that you've got it covered. You can let it go now. I find that really helpful before bed, and that's why I love to create my to do list at the end of the work day and I do like a closing shift before I go to bed, and I write down, like, these are the things that I need to do. I get everything kind of organized that I need to for the next morning, because otherwise I find it so hard to fall a sleave.
00:33:58
Speaker 3: I mean, perfect example of how useful it can be. Otherwise you might be sitting in bed thinking, oh, I have to do that tomorrow. I better not forget. I better not forget. And then you stay up worrying about it because you're not sure if you'll remember in the morning. Yeah, just write it down.
00:34:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I love that. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. I've learned so much, and I know the chicks would have as well. But before I let you go, we always like to wrap our episodes with our guests by asking them one final question. So, across your studies and research of the brain and neuroscience, what's the biggest life lesson you've learned so far?
00:34:36
Speaker 3: I think the most important thing that I've learned is something called belief effects. So belief effects are this thing where you might have heard the placebo effect right where you've got. You take a like a sugar pill, and it might have an effect on you because you think it might do something good for you, even though it's got nothing in it that might be useful. The same thing applies to how we think about things. So if you think something bad is going to happen, you're more likely to release a lot of stress hormones that can ultimately have a bad effect on your body. One of my favorite studies of all time is called the Milkshake Study and it's by Ali Crum in the United States. And really what that study was is she had a bunch of people that she had chocolate milkshakes, and you know, they either had the chocolate milkshake, which she told them was like rich and decadent and full of calories and all that stuff, and then she had another one which she told them and it was like, you know, a normal sort of like nutritious milkshake. It was the same milkshake, right, but based on what they thought it was, their body released different amounts of hormones and so if they thought it was a rich, dec milkshake, they released less or it changed the amount of the hormone that makes them feel full, so they felt full of for longer because they thought it was a rich, decadent milkshake. And this blew my mind because what shows us is that what we think can change how much of our hormones get released. Other thing, it changes our physiology at this deep, deep level. And I think what this new science of belief effects really shows us is that we have the power to change our body in a way that can really serve us. So we might We often tell ourselves in our minds about how something might happen we might worry about. We might say, Okay, I think this is going to go really badly and things are going to go things will just not work out for me. And when you do that, you'll be releasing maybe more stress hormones and things will go more badly. But why not just tell yourself the positive version of events? Why not just say, actually, I think this is going to be okay. I'm going to be okay, and not only will you have a better physical body state, you will perform better, Like science shows us this now, So how we think about things really matters. Mindset really matters. And I really take that forward in so many parts of my life. I used to have a fear of pub speaking, which might sound a bit weird because I do a lot of it now. Yeah, But one of the things I learned was, well, when you view that stress response and your heart racing and your palms being sweaty and you're breathing fast, if you tell yourself that it means that you're not coping with the situation, then you will do worse. But if you remind yourself that actually that's just your body's stress response helping you to deal with that situation and to improve your performance, then you will do better. So that's really a really pivotal thing for me, and I think it should be for all of us. Like mindset matters.
00:37:35
Speaker 2: I love that, and because it kind of sounds like manifestation in a way, which I do think a lot of people resonate with, but a lot of people also think like, uh, we we're bullshit. And if you're maybe a little bit more science inspired than knowing the neuroscience behind that, yeah, proves to you that mindset is so important.
00:37:55
Speaker 3: Absolutely. Yeah, Oh my gosh.
00:37:58
Speaker 2: Well, for any of the chicks who don't already follow you, where can I find you and learn more about you and the work you do.
00:38:04
Speaker 3: You can find me at Rocket Scientist on pretty much any social media.
00:38:08
Speaker 2: Yeah amazing. We'll put links to that and your ted talk and your website and everything in the show notes as well, so the chicks can find you.
00:38:14
Speaker 1: Cool.
00:38:14
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you so much, Leli, and thank you chicks for having us in the ear holes. We love to be here, and thanks to el miss you. Bye chicks, Bye,
Speaker 1: This podcast is recorded on gadigal Land Always was, always will be Aboriginal Land.
00:00:12
Speaker 2: Hey Jix, I'm sal and it feels so weird just ending it there. But this is two broad Chicks, the show that shares life lessons and tips to help make you rich in life. And today Al's not with me because she's had to jet off to Melbourne, so she will be very sorely missed. But I'm not alone because I am joined by the absolutely incredible doctor Leela Landowski, Award winning neuroscientists, lecturer at the University of Tasmania and Vice President of Science and Technology Australia.
00:00:41
Speaker 3: Welcome, Thank you.
00:00:43
Speaker 2: I am so excited to have you on the pod today because we're talking all things productivity, memory, popcorn, brain, So I feel like I've got a lot of questions for you that I'm like, yeah, look, the chicks are going to get a lot from this, but so am I. So I'm excited to dive me in.
00:01:00
Speaker 3: It sounds fabulous. I can't wait to talk about my favorite body parts.
00:01:02
Speaker 2: So it's good, the best one and honestly needs more attention. But before we get into the juicy questions, what's your life lesson?
00:01:10
Speaker 3: Of the week. Look, I think my life lesson of the week is probably like a life lesson of all time for me, and I've learned that the richness of life for me comes from the people in it, not the stuff I have, not not anything else that's material, But it's actually the connections with people, making new friends, and having those really great people in your life.
00:01:31
Speaker 2: Honestly, I think you kind of get that understanding more and more as you grow up, because I know, for me personally, in my early twenties, I was so and I guess I still am, but you know, very career oriented and really thought about that has been the biggest marker of having a successful life. And then the more amazing things I've experienced, which are all so great and I'm so grateful for. It is like the relationships and friendships that you have at the end of the day that me and the most right.
00:01:58
Speaker 3: Truly absolutely and you want to share them with people who have the same values, who actually want the best for you. I think young when we're younger, we just we're friends with whoever's at school with. We don't necessarily have things in common with them, And I think as we get older as well, we meet people who are on the same path of life or have those things in common with us, And I think you can form some really robust friendships because you have those things in.
00:02:23
Speaker 2: Common exactly, instead of relationships by proximity, it's based on.
00:02:27
Speaker 3: Values, yes, exactly.
00:02:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that. What a beautiful way to start the episode. My life lesson is something that I saw when I was scrolling this week that I actually thought was kind of relevant to today's topic, and it's that our skin is the largest sensory organ on our body, which makes sense and seems super obvious, right, But then I realize that's why it's so important to prioritize materials that make you feel good and make you feel comfortable, like whether that is your bedding or your clothes, and being really conscious of that and how that has like a huge impact on your mental health and what's going on. Whereas I never really would have thought about that, or you know, I guess gave that the attention that it needs. That comfort truly is key.
00:03:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think the interesting thing about our skin is it's kind of like, as far as our body is concerned, it's like a low priority thing. So if you're stressed it's going to take blood flow away from the skin, and you're more likely to have pimples or dry skin, or your hair might fall out or go gray. So it's also like, yeah, it's really influenced by what's happening in our lives. Holy shit.
00:03:41
Speaker 2: See that's the thing I feel like every time I like go to the doctor about something, they're like, it's stress like care. But we'll get into that more in this episode. But it's wild that it really is.
00:03:53
Speaker 3: It's all connected, yeah truly. Yeah.
00:03:55
Speaker 2: Okay, well, let's get into the juicy stuff of the episode before we really dive in. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got into neuroscience.
00:04:08
Speaker 3: I never wanted to be a neuroscientist. I never planned to be a neuroscientist. I always wanted to work in developing therapies for things. So when I was at a grades for school camp, I caught my first fish and I remember holding it and it was disgusting. It was covered in slime and this slime was kind of like forming webbing between my fingers, and I just yeah, I'd heard of things like shark lever oil or like fish extracts that could be helpful for people, and I remember holding it thinking, Oh, wouldn't it be cool if one day, when I grow up, I could find a fish extract that could help people. And that was really my naive idea that I took all the way through to Union because I didn't have any mentors. I didn't have anyone who could kind of guide me in life. So I did a ultimately did a degree in medical research. And when I was doing that degree, I was sitting in a neuroscience lecture and the neuroscientist that was giving that lecture was talking about some of his work and I remember looking at it thinking I maybe have a different way to interpret what he's talking about, and maybe I wanted to really test this idea that I'd had, And I ended up testing that I did doing a doctorate in neuroscience and then making that my career. And the cool thing is is that through that work, I discovered a natural protein that could regenerate nerves in the skin, and that protein can be found in fish. So it's almost like life came full circle.
00:05:29
Speaker 2: Oh my god, the fish oil prophecy came true. I love how that's the mind blowing, life altering realizations you were having when you were in here.
00:05:40
Speaker 3: For it's one of those things that like, unless you've been exposed to something, you don't know that you might want to do it as a career. So we're totally influenced by what we see on TV. And yeah, pretty spit is awesome, Like who wouldn't want to be her?
00:05:52
Speaker 2: True? So so true. But I think it's really interesting because, like we were saying, all of these things are connected, like when we were talking about the relationship between your brain and your body and your mental health and how a lot of these things that we think are different parts of our body and they have their own functions, which they do, but they truly are all very, very related. And in you know, today's society, we're so productivity and output focused. But has our constant need and chase for productivity made us less productive?
00:06:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, because I mean, our brain can only do so much, and we're constantly pushing it and pushing it and trying to do more and more with what we've got right, And one of the big things that happens is we're constantly context switching, so we're doing one thing and then we're doing the next thing, And I mean just think of it like this. If you're let's say you're in a kitchen making a meal, and then every five minutes so you have to go to another kitchen to start making another meal. You never finished the first one, and then you go to the next one. You've got to figure out what this new recipe is and you've got to you know, it takes time, and that's basically kind of what the brain is doing each time we context, which we've got to take time time to refill what we call our working memory with whatever it is that we're doing. And like it just it basically costs the brain, so it takes a lot of energy and it's just really inefficient. So we're never multitasking. What we're doing is really task switching, and it's just really inefficient for the brain.
00:07:19
Speaker 2: Wow, that's so interesting because typically we would have seen like having a skill to multitask is like a badge of honor, and that women are especially expected to multitask and juggle multiple things at once. And it's like, yeah, that's probably good to be able to do to a point, but a lot of the time it's to our detriment.
00:07:38
Speaker 3: Right, And look, honestly, we never really had to multitask as much as we did today. Like, yeah, back in the day, you'd have a village that would bring up a family, you know, you wouldn't just be trying to do everything and trying to juggle everything. And I think this not just the emotional load, but the need to get kids to an appointment or worry about it, you know, worry about sports or all of these different things. We're worrying about, navigating traffic, all of these things take a lot of mental load, and that has consequences. You know, like we've gone so far away from the way we as social beings were meant to live. You know, we're really we've forced ourselves into this nuclear family, and we put all this pressure on ourselves and you know, maybe our significant other to get things done. But we've actually never, really in human history, had to do that until recently.
00:08:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like so many of the things that occupy our brain space and sources of stress are things that probably didn't even exist fifty one hundred and thousands of years ago, right exactly.
00:08:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, now we have to worry about getting stuck in traffic or you know, is there going to be a breakdown on the road or all of these things that you know are part of our life now but never used to be part of our lives. And being certain places at a certain time, you know, before you just do things as they arise and go with the flow, you'd have that kind of we call it time affluence. So when you feel like you've got control of your time, then you feel happier and you're less stressed. But in today's society, where you're running from one thing to the next and you don't feel like you have any control over things, that's a stressor and it's not good for us.
00:09:34
Speaker 2: You did a really interesting TED talk that I wanted to tap into a little bit, and you spoke about hacks for learning faster. So what are six hacks to learn faster?
00:09:45
Speaker 3: They sound really logical, but when I explain it will make more sense. So attention, alertness, sleep, repetition, breaks, and mistakes. So in order to learn something, you need to be paying attention to it right. You can't be distracted. You've got to give it your attention. Then you'll you've got to be alert. You know, if you're tired and sleepy, then it's going to be hard to pay attention. You need to keep repeating the thing that you're doing, because basically the brain doesn't want to change, and in order for you to learn, your brain is physically changing. It's making these brand new little connections called signapses between neurons when you're learning right, and the brain isn't going to want to put all that energy into making these new connections if it's something that you've only done once. And so when you're repeating something, it's basically flagging to your brain and saying, hey, this is important because it keeps coming up over and over again. So let's actually physically change and make that process easier and more efficient. So repetition is really critical when it comes to learning. Sleep is important too, So you know, we used to think that sleep was a bit of a waste of time, you know, spending a third of our lives in suspended animation, just like chilling.
00:10:54
Speaker 2: But that's how I want to Okay, what's up that, Let's bring that percentage up.
00:10:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And it's like it's like actually critical for learning. So when we're doing things throughout the course of the day, we're putting things into a short term memory storage. So part of our brain, called the hippo campus is really just keeping track of what we're doing and what's sort of important. So if I was to ask you what you were doing this morning or what you had for breakfast, you're using your hippo campus to recall that information. And when we go to sleep, basically all of those important things throughout the course of the day get flitted off into other parts of our long term memory storage. So if you don't sleep, the short term stuff doesn't get converted into long term memory. So you know, that's why it's so important to sleep. You have to think of sleep almost as is really the time when your brain is changing and actually doing the consolidation the actual learning.
00:11:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's doing its file story.
00:11:48
Speaker 3: Yeah that time. Yeah, we often feel bad when we make a mistake, and we kind of feel a bit anxious and it's not a nice feeling. Yeah, but really mistakes are really important when it comes to learning. So when we make a mistake and we feel a bit anxious and you know, we're feeling uncomfortable, what's actually happening is our brain is releasing all of these neurochemicals that are actually helping us to pay attention. That's where the agitation comes from. It's actually creating these neurochemicals to make us focus on the thing that we just did wrong. And I guess the next part of that is it's also opening up this little window of neuroplasticity. So whatever we do next, the brain's much more likely to be a bit of a sponge and take up. So we make a mistake, we feel a bit anxious, but it's our brain's way of preparing us to pay attention. And then we do it again and hopefully get it right. And when we get it right, our brain releases other chemicals like dopamine, and it makes that memory stick into place. So when you're trying to learn something, don't just wait until you're ready to test your knowledge. Just keep testing yourself as you go. Like if you're trying to play a sport, get it wrong, you know, make it difficult. Let's say you're trying to play basketball, take a weird shot at a weird angle and test yourself. Allow yourself to make that mistake because that way, yes, you might get it wrong at first, but also you're making your brain remember how to do it right a lot better and it becomes a lot more efficient. Let's say you're trying to learn a speech or something. Don't wait until you think you've memorized it all to actually say it all out loud. Just actually say it when you don't know it. You'll actually have a much better chance of consolidating that information. I think we often tell ourselves that when we make a mistake, it's a bad thing, but actually it's the best thing we can do for learning. We really need to embrace that discomfort and that feeling and lean into it.
00:13:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, do you have any hacks for anybody who, especially like in a corporate workplace kind of or any sort of workplace scenario, when you make a mistake, what should be the next step to really take advantage of some of those chemical reactions that are happening in your brain that because I know for me, if I make a mistake, that feeling kicks in. But sometimes that can be quite overwhelming and it feels more like debilitating rather than being like, Okay, how do I jump on and like take advantage of this and see it is a bit of a superpower? Like what would be the next best steps on using that as a learning opportunity instead of like spiraling and potentially being mean to yourself about the mistake. That you made.
00:14:24
Speaker 3: I think knowledge is power. I think knowing that that discomfort is actually your brain just helping you to be the best version of yourself, and leaning into that it makes it easier. If you don't know that, then of course you're just going to be like, this feels horrible, let's walk away from it and let's just not try again. Yeah, but if you know that actually it's just a good thing ultimately, then you can sort of lean into it a bit better.
00:14:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, all right, cool, So did we get through all six? We had alertnessleep breaks.
00:14:51
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:14:52
Speaker 3: Breaks. So, especially in you know, if you're twenty five or above, we know that if you take if you try and do something else as as soon as you've finished learning something, those brand new memories are really fragile, and they're really easy to get like overwritten in your brain, and so you really need to spend time taking a break and just letting yourself mull over whatever it is that you've done. So let's say you've just sat down to learn something and then you finished learning, and then you go and scroll on your phone. That's pretty much the worst thing you can do because you're using those you know, you're putting irrelevant information into your brain, and you have a much bigger chance of sort of overwriting those new memories, but actually taking a break and then just chilling out. And when you're in that space of just chilling out, you're actually replaying the things that you've just done. You're not aware of it necessarily, but you're actually thinking through it, you're actually processing it. And when you're processing it, it's actually another form of repetition, so you're just actually practicing it. So an example of this is they did a study in people who are learning how to play the piano, and when you take a break, like a twenty second break after learning that little sequence, your brain is replaying it afterwards, and you're just actually repeating that information in your mind, and it does that really really quickly. So it's a really useful thing to do. One thing I didn't mention when we're talking about alertness, So it's really important to be alert in order for you to learn. And one of the best things to do is actually just get a little bit of exercise, get your heart rate pumping. So let's say you've got an important meeting that you need to or you're about to sit down to learn, go for a run, or run up and down the stairs, or do star jumps, do whatever it is to get those chemicals. These neurochemicals, they don't just affect your body, they affect your brain as well, and they help you feel more alert and pay attention to what you're about to do.
00:16:46
Speaker 2: Oh, I like that. Is it cardio especially? Is that the sort of exercise that people should be doing, or is there anything.
00:16:53
Speaker 3: Well, you really whatever it is to get your heart rate up? Okay, yeah, so you really want to get those things like adrenaline and more adrenaline released in order to make you feel, you know, a bit more peppy and help you pay attention. That's a really good hack.
00:17:08
Speaker 2: I like that because it's super achievable. And I think something else that I've seen just doing research and stuff for the show is I read an article by neuroscientists. I find it and I'll link it in the show notes. But she was saying that actually, when we take breaks is when our brain can be creative, and that boredom truly is what fuels creativity. And because we're constantly pacifying ourselves with media, whether that's scrolling on your phone or always having a podcast playing or always listening to music, or going into the shower and putting YouTube on, whatever it is. Like, we have that constant chase now and we don't ever let our brains be quiet exactly.
00:17:52
Speaker 3: We don't let ourselves be bored, and being bored is one of the greatest things we can do for creativity. So part of our brain we call the default mode network. It doesn't matter what it's called, but it's basically where our brain starts wandering and we start thinking about ideas and connecting them in like weird and abstract ways. That's what we come up with our creative ideas. You know, the genius moments happens when you're bored, like when you're in the shower wherever it might be. And this is maybe a little bit of a kind of weird concept, but bear with me for a second. So in human history, the time where people weren't suddenly worrying about shelter and worrying about food and finally actually had time to be bored, that's when human civilization really blossomed. So the Bronze Age is a time where they got figured out to mix these metals together and develop bronze, and it allowed them to make these tools, like you know, like things to use for agriculture, to make buildings, all those sorts of things. So suddenly it was really easy to get lots of food, was suddenly great to make lots of shelter. All those things that used to be problems on a daily basis now no longer were there. So suddenly people had time to be bored. They had time to work on artisan crafts. That's where mathematics was developed, that's where language was developed. It all came from humans not being in a fair state anymore and actually being able to be bored and therefore be creative. So, really, boredom is where the root of human civilization came from. It's such an important thing, and we're always we don't let ourselves be bort It's almost like we can't sit down without just scrolling our phones. Were always looking for a way to fill the time.
00:19:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, Which is that like an anxiety response or is it like a habit loop that we've kind of just found ourselves in.
00:19:50
Speaker 3: Like why is that Probably a bit of both? Yeah, Because I mean social media it gives us what we want. It's acute, interesting cat fit. It's a funny bit of content. It's an interesting podcast, it's interesting, it's a great way to fill the time, and being bored can sometimes feel uncomfortable. So it's almost like we're self soothing ourselves. If you don't have to be bored, then why would you bother?
00:20:14
Speaker 2: Yeah? Okay, And a lot of these things impact memory, right because, like you said, if you're not getting enough sleep, or if we're constantly pacifying our souls as some of these things, we're not giving our brain the chance to do that busy work. It needs to file things away. But I wanted to ask you what about the concept of false memories, Like what's with that, because you know, sometimes you'll be like, no, I swear I sent that birthday message. I swear I did, and then you look and you're like, no I didn't.
00:20:42
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean at the end of the day, we sort of think of our we like to think of our memories being like CCTV footage, like it's a perfect recollection of things, but it's not. It's really a collection of memories that we then try and piece together when we trying to recall what might have happened at a certain thing. And that also means that it's really vulnerable to change as well. So the longer we spend after an event has happened and we try and recall what happened at that event, then the more likely it is that those memories can be changed and can be influenced by things that we've done. So let's just say we went to a party a couple of weeks ago, and I have my version of what happened at that party, but you tell me that you remember that something else happened, and we have that conversation, then my brain might start to sort of piece that into the memory of what happened, even though I never was there, I never actually saw it. And we see that all the time. And that's sort of why we have this thing called a statute of limitations in the court process when someone has experienced something traumatic or whatever it might be, and they're trying you know, I guess because those memories aren't as trustworthy as time goes on, it's hard to use that as evidence.
00:22:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, like, our contexts and perceptions and other influencers can really impact our memory totally. Yeah, that's so interesting. I think that's very validating in a way because it happens more and more as you get older as well, So I think it can be a little bit unnerving, but it's good to know that it is, you know, sort of just a natural process. What about popcorn brain?
00:22:43
Speaker 3: Popcorn brain? Ah, so it's this, well, I guess it's a pop term that sort of mean describes how our brain sort of bounces about from one thing to the next. Our attention is constantly shifting and popping around. But really that's also kind of because of social media a lot. So if it think about it like this, so our brain is really good at learning from things that we do all the time. And if we're constantly using our phones and seeing one bit of information and then seeing a different kind of bit of information, we're constantly actually context switching. We're looking at one thing and looking at the next thing. So we're actually training our brain to have bad attention. We're training it to be able to move from one thing to the next, because that's what you know, that's what we're doing. And so the more you do that, the easier it becomes. And so our brain will just naturally move from one thing to the next.
00:23:32
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:23:32
Speaker 2: Right, And because in some of the things that I've read around popcorn brain a lot of people talk about it in relation to women, and that a lot of women experiencing Why is.
00:23:41
Speaker 3: That in particular, Well, I guess the more you have other stresses in life, or the more burdens you might have in other places, the more you're likely to have a fragmented attention span. So let's say you've got a huge emotional load trying to figure out things in the house and juggling family or whatever it might be, or you know, we're hustling, we're doing lots of different jobs. Then you're already a bit stressed, right, and so that burden of stress makes a lot harder to pay attention to things. It actually fragments our ability to pay attention. So when you're really stressed in life, it affects the brain. And it's not just a small effect. It's actually quite significant. So let's say you're worrying about paying the bills, and you're worrying about covering rent, and you're worrying about getting from A to B, and you're worrying about everything else at home, and you're worrying about your job. That is a chronic stress, and over time it changes our brain structure and the way we behave So one of the things it does is it makes your hippocampus, the brain's memory center, shrink, like brain cells actually die and so your memory gets worse.
00:24:53
Speaker 2: So stress is shrinking our brains.
00:24:55
Speaker 3: Yeah, and well actually makes one part of the brain bigger. It makes the emotion out of the brain bigger, which is why we get more emotional and more visceral and just a bit more reactive to things because it's I mean, that's it makes sense. Like if you're if you have if you've constantly got stress in your life, then the part of your brain that's involved with dealing with stress wants to get bigger so you can deal with the next stress that comes along.
00:25:21
Speaker 2: Oh my god, Yeah, you've just blown my mind. I just had like a that was a real like one plus one equals too moment. Yeah.
00:25:29
Speaker 3: But it's also like we have to remind ourselves it's not that we've changed as a person. It's not that we've become more angry or aggressive. It's just that our brain is doing its best to try and cope with that situation. So it's not our fault. So we need to be kind to ourselves as well.
00:25:41
Speaker 2: Can you reverse some of those things?
00:25:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, you definitely can. So, I mean, I guess the rule of thumb is that the longer you've been stressed and the longer it's going to take to bounce back. But some of the great things to do to reduce the level of stress or to reduce the impact of stress are things like exercise. So exercise helps you make new brain cells. In the hippo camphus it makes it bigger. You can do things like mindfulness or meditation practices, which are really great as well. You can do breathing techniques. You might have heard the physiological sigh, So it's where you do this. It's really the best way to de escalate a panic attack. Actually, so do me through. You do two inhales through your nose and then a long exhale. So I'll show you in a second. But an example of it is imagine, you know when a kid might might be throwing a tantrum, or you're crying really really hard, and you just you go, that's actually the physiological side. We don't even know we're doing it. We're actually self soothing ourselves. Yeah, so it's two inhales through the nose. So the second inhale is just like fully filling up the lungs with air and then a long exhale, so you have to spend a longer time exhaling. It has to be in that order, otherwise it doesn't really work. So let's do it together. So two inhales and then a long exhale and then we'll do it again.
00:26:57
Speaker 2: Okay, so in heal through the nose, exhal through them out. Let's do it together.
00:27:01
Speaker 3: Takes ready r WHOA do you feel that?
00:27:21
Speaker 1: Yeah?
00:27:22
Speaker 3: I mean I do it three times, you'll watch your heart rate go down. I already feel way more chill.
00:27:27
Speaker 1: Like that's yeah, you.
00:27:29
Speaker 2: Better do that every part just halfway through.
00:27:32
Speaker 3: And if you do it for five minutes, then it has like really measurable effects on how your body is functioning. Just it's like the greatest hack almost, but it's not a hack. It's what our body does anyway. Yeah.
00:27:42
Speaker 2: But it's being conscious of that too, because if you're like you know, like you said, if you're crying or if you're spiraling a little bit and your body's doing it once, it's like sure, I'm sure that helps. But if you're conscious of it, and say, if you're in a really stressful work situation, you're like, I'm going to go for a walk quickly, to go to the bathroom quickly and spend a few minutes doing that. I'm sure being more conscious about it and actually giving that the time and the space to also do it properly, it can really have a solid impact.
00:28:11
Speaker 3: Absolutely. Another thing that's really great for stress as well is socializing, like actually just hanging out with people that you like people. It has to be people that you like. If you don't like it, it's not going to be not stressful. But when you're hanging out with people that you like that you like, it does a lot of things, but one of them is that you know you're talking about it, so you're I guess it takes the fear away from whatever situation you're in because you feel safe because you're in a safe space. And also you're releasing all of these neurochemicals, things like oxytocin. People call it the love hormone, but it's more than that. It's yes, it makes you feel closer to whoever you're talking to, but also it releases that reduces a level of our stress hormone cortisol, So it actually like part of the reason why we feel better is and feel less stressed is because those stress hormones go down. Yeah, And you know, at the end of the day, we know that the people who live happiest for the longest have the best social connections. And so really, you know, having great friendships or having just people that you trust that you can connect with, really has a profound influence on your life. We know that people who will lonely live less long. In fact, they're about thirty percent more likely to die. It's about as bad as having a pack a day of cigarettes. It's really not good for us. Like we're designed to be a social species. We're meant to be hanging out.
00:29:31
Speaker 2: Wow, no way, that is actually wild. And because even though we're more and more connected to people now, there have been studies that show that young people especially are feeling more emotions of loneliness and feelings secluded from people. Right, So it's so important to make time for those social connections, but also pay attention to how you feel after you spend time with someone, right, Because somebody might be a friend because you've had history with them, or like we said earlier, like you've gone to school with them, or maybe you work with them. But pay attention to how you feel. Do you feel stressed and anxious afterwards? Because it might be a friendship, but it's like, is it good for your nervous system?
00:30:13
Speaker 3: Exactly. Yeah, You've got to trust that feeling, and it has to be face to face. You don't get that from texting, you don't get that from digital connection. It has to be a face to face thing. Another thing that happens when we're face to face, like right now, Yeah, we're not aware of it, but our brain are starting to synchronize, Like certain parts of our brain are synchronizing the brain ways, which the first time I heard that, I thought it was a bunch of whack, what is this? But it's the science is solid, Like we're doing that. We're actually synchronizing in parts of our brain.
00:30:45
Speaker 2: So is that why you like finish people's sentences and stuff when you're together in person, or like you do feel like you start to talk similar to or like behave in similar ways to your friends and more that you spend time with them.
00:30:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe it there's a bit of that. Yeah, because you're actually kind I have been sinking you know often when you say you're on the same wavelength. Maybe there's a bit more to that than we realize.
00:31:05
Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow, oh my god. I was just thinking. I was like, so, if our brains are sinking up currently, does that mean that I'm becoming smarter or I'm making you dumber? I feel bad.
00:31:16
Speaker 3: I'm learning from you. I mean I already learned where to get the best blazer in Canberra.
00:31:19
Speaker 2: So yeah, through we were saying off air before that, if you go to Canberra, go to the Vinni's there because all the politicians let go of their old blazers at the op shops and they're all incredible quality and like fifteen bucks genius.
00:31:33
Speaker 3: Yeah see see, I love this. I wish I knew this yesterday though. Anyway, that's right, we'll.
00:31:38
Speaker 2: Just go to Canberra again. And I also read that humans now have an attention span of forty seven seconds, but it takes twenty three minutes to refocus on a task when you become distracted. So do you have any hacks that are backed by neuroscience to help us stay focused or regain focus.
00:31:56
Speaker 3: Well, we've just got to train our mental muscles. Basically, we've got to actually force ourselves to pay attention to things. So one thing that you could do is just, let's say twenty minutes a day, you put your phone away, put every distraction away that you possibly have, and just focus on whatever it is that you're trying to focus on. And the more you do that, the easier it will get. Other ways that you can sort of train your focus is through things like focused attention meditation, which is basically a type of meditation where you're just you know, you might be focusing on one body part at a time, but by doing that, you're focusing your attention and it just helps train that mental muscle. Other things you could do, I mean, I always love having a pad next to me when I'm working because when an idea pops into my head or something that I was meant to do pops into my head, I write it down. And it's really important to write it down because it takes it out of your working memory, so you're not you know, we've got this finite amount of working memory. It's basically the working memories is pretty much this really really really short term memory that stores about, you know, the information that allows you to do what you're doing in that moment. So my working memory has told me I'm aware of what I just said so I don't repeat it. It's like just that really it's in the moment, right, Yeah. And if you're also thinking about, oh, I need to do this thing, you're going to keep thinking about it. But by putting it down on paper, you can take it out of that working memory. You can just focus on what you're doing, so things like yeah, So it allows you to give that attention to the thing that you're doing, giving it the attention it deserves.
00:33:30
Speaker 2: And does it need to be physical, like should you be writing it down on a piece of paper or can you.
00:33:35
Speaker 3: Type it out? You can type it out, Okay, it's just.
00:33:37
Speaker 2: A matter of like acknowledging that you've got it covered. You can let it go now. I find that really helpful before bed, and that's why I love to create my to do list at the end of the work day and I do like a closing shift before I go to bed, and I write down, like, these are the things that I need to do. I get everything kind of organized that I need to for the next morning, because otherwise I find it so hard to fall a sleave.
00:33:58
Speaker 3: I mean, perfect example of how useful it can be. Otherwise you might be sitting in bed thinking, oh, I have to do that tomorrow. I better not forget. I better not forget. And then you stay up worrying about it because you're not sure if you'll remember in the morning. Yeah, just write it down.
00:34:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I love that. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. I've learned so much, and I know the chicks would have as well. But before I let you go, we always like to wrap our episodes with our guests by asking them one final question. So, across your studies and research of the brain and neuroscience, what's the biggest life lesson you've learned so far?
00:34:36
Speaker 3: I think the most important thing that I've learned is something called belief effects. So belief effects are this thing where you might have heard the placebo effect right where you've got. You take a like a sugar pill, and it might have an effect on you because you think it might do something good for you, even though it's got nothing in it that might be useful. The same thing applies to how we think about things. So if you think something bad is going to happen, you're more likely to release a lot of stress hormones that can ultimately have a bad effect on your body. One of my favorite studies of all time is called the Milkshake Study and it's by Ali Crum in the United States. And really what that study was is she had a bunch of people that she had chocolate milkshakes, and you know, they either had the chocolate milkshake, which she told them was like rich and decadent and full of calories and all that stuff, and then she had another one which she told them and it was like, you know, a normal sort of like nutritious milkshake. It was the same milkshake, right, but based on what they thought it was, their body released different amounts of hormones and so if they thought it was a rich, dec milkshake, they released less or it changed the amount of the hormone that makes them feel full, so they felt full of for longer because they thought it was a rich, decadent milkshake. And this blew my mind because what shows us is that what we think can change how much of our hormones get released. Other thing, it changes our physiology at this deep, deep level. And I think what this new science of belief effects really shows us is that we have the power to change our body in a way that can really serve us. So we might We often tell ourselves in our minds about how something might happen we might worry about. We might say, Okay, I think this is going to go really badly and things are going to go things will just not work out for me. And when you do that, you'll be releasing maybe more stress hormones and things will go more badly. But why not just tell yourself the positive version of events? Why not just say, actually, I think this is going to be okay. I'm going to be okay, and not only will you have a better physical body state, you will perform better, Like science shows us this now, So how we think about things really matters. Mindset really matters. And I really take that forward in so many parts of my life. I used to have a fear of pub speaking, which might sound a bit weird because I do a lot of it now. Yeah, But one of the things I learned was, well, when you view that stress response and your heart racing and your palms being sweaty and you're breathing fast, if you tell yourself that it means that you're not coping with the situation, then you will do worse. But if you remind yourself that actually that's just your body's stress response helping you to deal with that situation and to improve your performance, then you will do better. So that's really a really pivotal thing for me, and I think it should be for all of us. Like mindset matters.
00:37:35
Speaker 2: I love that, and because it kind of sounds like manifestation in a way, which I do think a lot of people resonate with, but a lot of people also think like, uh, we we're bullshit. And if you're maybe a little bit more science inspired than knowing the neuroscience behind that, yeah, proves to you that mindset is so important.
00:37:55
Speaker 3: Absolutely. Yeah, Oh my gosh.
00:37:58
Speaker 2: Well, for any of the chicks who don't already follow you, where can I find you and learn more about you and the work you do.
00:38:04
Speaker 3: You can find me at Rocket Scientist on pretty much any social media.
00:38:08
Speaker 2: Yeah amazing. We'll put links to that and your ted talk and your website and everything in the show notes as well, so the chicks can find you.
00:38:14
Speaker 1: Cool.
00:38:14
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you so much, Leli, and thank you chicks for having us in the ear holes. We love to be here, and thanks to el miss you. Bye chicks, Bye,
