Anabolic Round Table: Steroids to Avoid, Permanent Damage, GH, GLP-1s & Why The Stack Matters

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The physio was able to like there was the physio guy, it's not focusing, but you can see all the bruising behind my nail.
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Just do bodybuilding then.
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Yeah, just complain.
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Just do bodybuilding.
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What are you doing?
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Bodybuilding, brother.
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Yeah.
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Not that what you compete in is absolutely totally badass.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I mean, uh it was fun, but it was uh it's like when you if anything coming second in bodybuilding, it doesn't hurt as much as coming second in kickboxing.
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Uh because you got knocked out, probably, or you got is it by points?
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What would you like?
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Points.
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Points.
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I was w I was winning the first round, 14, 12, and then it ended up 28, 25.
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Just some silly mistakes in the last 15 seconds.
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So you're at one point, two point second place?
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Yeah.
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It's uh and from when I was younger, like instead of new.
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Now you go on Ford Abbey's podcast, you lose your mind.
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I got a boy too quick with you, Ford.
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Too soon, Steve.
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But we're already recording, that's why I like it.
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You just start.
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You just start.
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Yeah, we started.
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Yes, we started.
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So whatever you say, like everything you say before the intro is free game, but I know we're already recording.
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So yeah, this is the part that I clip over the reels, too.
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Oh, yeah, perfect.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, I need the followers, man.
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Um I got that.
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How you guys been so far?
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How you guys been doing?
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Good, good.
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Yeah, that must have been maybe the start of July when I came back from holidays was the last time we all worked together as the the three musketeers.
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So yeah.
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Yeah, Kurt got busy and then Dean got busy, and I've been patiently waiting.
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But we'll record again tomorrow.
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Yeah.
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Mm-hmm.
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Well, I appreciate you guys coordinating and uh all coming on at the same time.
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All from different parts of the world.
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Yeah, it feels so diverse right now.
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It's 7 o'clock in the morning, Darren in Vegas?
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Yeah, it's 7 a.m.
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Earliest I've ever been awake in my entire lifetime.
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No, you've been awake at that time, but you were awake the whole night.
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Oh, choo-choo, sorry.
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You go to bed at eight or nine o'clock in the morning.
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I've been there.
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You know me so well, Steve.
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Yeah.
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I see you've been parting a lot with Jared.
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Jared has been parting a lot.
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Jared is uh life crisis.
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It's like he's reinventing himself.
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You know, I thought I was bad with my motorbikes, but he's uh he's going ham.
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I've been keeping him company, you know.
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A little uh kind of like your trip advisor.
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Oh, yeah, yeah.
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Everybody needs a trip advisor.
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Um I'll be there in September for the Mr.
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Olympia.
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So awesome.
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I'll be here too.
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Yeah.
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That'd be awesome.
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You know, give me a call.
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We'll do, we'll do.
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Yeah.
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George, what's the name?
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I'm happy.
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Nothing, brother.
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Nothing, nothing.
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Just busy.
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No.
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Yeah, man.
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Summer's tough when your kids get to a certain age, man, summer's busier in the school year.
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All right.
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Yeah.
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That's why I got like uh the two hours the most I could spare.
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Like I was so many moving parts right now.
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Oh, yeah.
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Yeah, we had the amount of like scheduling my uh Dean probably knows, like back and forth between me and my wife just to figure out how everything can work.
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Yeah, we had we had the whole neighborhood out our back garden just there that my wife politely told them um Callum and Charlie's daddy has an important call, so can you please all go out onto the street and play?
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I'm not there yet.
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My daughter's one year old in uh two months, so she's running around and screaming.
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That's that's the most I get to deal with.
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Enjoy it.
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Yeah, I will.
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I will.
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So what's on the menu today now?
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Um, I was thinking about a fun topic first, actually.
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This is just pure curiosity off the top of my mind.
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But how much did you guys know before you ever took your first injection?
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Each of you.
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I knew a lot.
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I thought I knew a lot.
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But you learn on the job, man.
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It's like driving.
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Right?
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I mean, how much did you know about cars when you got your license and then you you learn on the road?
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So, but I was researching for years.
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I think I was researching since maybe 21, 20 years old, and then I took my first injection at 26.
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And of course, now there's so much more information, and we we kind of raised the bar amongst all the educators.
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So now in instead of having like this leaflet with like four pages that you need to know, now there's like an encyclopedia of shit you need to know before you're allowed to take your first injection.
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But I think if you if you know the leaflet, I think you're good to go.
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You'll you'll learn the rest as you go along.
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Yeah, and a lot of the stuff in that big old book, it just causes paranoia.
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That was bullshit, you know?
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A lot of bullshit in there too.
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So yeah, I I I thought I knew a lot, but I don't know a lot more uh now.
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But again, but again, we we didn't really have good education.
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We had the forums and everybody was anonymous.
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And there's a lot of bro science, and a lot of that ended up to be true.
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But like if you go to the old steroid logs on the forums, I mean, when you look at it now, it's it's kind of bad.
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Yeah, I think for for me 19, 20 was was when I became less naive to what was sort of going on in bodybuilding.
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And at that point I was in my undergraduate degree for pharmacology, and then I think like actively just reading and researching um up until the age I think of twenty-three.
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Um and that was after competing naturally and and all that sort of stuff, and you uh to me even at like what 38 back to like 22, 23, 15 years, I still I'm still learning.
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Like there's there's still stuff that we can expand our knowledge on that back then, you know, a lot of a lot of the theories that I put out there over the years or talking about like running TRT and then a cycle rather than blasting and cruising.
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Um a lot of that sort of just came from my own understanding of like, why would I want to like if I'm not going to be like a top level professional bodybuilder, why would I be taking like lower dose super physiological doses during an off phase and then running even higher doses without that blasting crews?
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And it's it's stuff that you you sort of gain your own understanding to your own situation and you apply it over time.
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And you know, I think the the three of us have been very um open, but also I guess um, if you want to say charitable in that we've shared our knowledge with podcasts, like we've not kept anything secret, or you know, you get into the inner inner circle and try and figure out what's going on.
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And if anything, when you start to like you you gain some type of authority and you then start working with like professionals, all the stuff that you've seen on the forums back in the day, what you actually then start to see with the actual professional is half the stuff they're doing is not what's on the forums.
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And you're like, how how do we end up in this position of like where it's all these whispers of like escalating dosages that you really see what the professionals are using to compete professionally, not get to the size that they were for professional status is a lot lower than what people think.
00:08:04.639 --> 00:08:07.040
Kurtz had joined the party pretty late, right?
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39 39, 40?
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I can't remember if it was a 39 or 40.
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So I mean I knew 15, I had some education in it, and I thought I knew I'd you know that first injection taught me a lot.
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And then I learned I learn every day.
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You know, I learn about myself, I learn about other people.
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Yeah, and like with the pro stuff, it's wild.
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I mean, the genetics are so strong that it stuff's all over the place.
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Right?
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There's guys use a lot, there's guys use very little.
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There's guys you know, I had an experience uh this last um pro show that just happened.
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Um a lot of them they don't even do some of the basic stuff that I needed to do to be a shitty bodybuilder, like track your electrolytes.
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Don't pay any attention to that shit, they don't need to.
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It's wild.
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You know, I asked a pro that I that I help um how much sodium he was taking, and he had no idea.
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Four days out, no clue.
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Whoa, four days out.
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But that's the main difference between you know what I mean, like the third place finish and the first place finish.
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But it just shows that like all the crazy stuff, all the details you put in at that level, maybe it doesn't matter.
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Yeah, some guys were just born for to do this stuff, you know?
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Yeah, yeah.
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Yeah, some boy some guys just look fucking crisp.
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Give them any amount of sodium, any amount of water with their carbohydrates, and they just come out looking crisp as fuck.
00:09:30.799 --> 00:09:32.399
Yeah, I've seen it happen many times.
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Some guys are just it doesn't matter what they do.
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They grow and they stay lean and they can make all the mistakes, and then the problem is, of course, when they get to the highest level, they they got away with all these mistakes, so they don't really know how to piece it together unless they sign up with a good coach who can kind of direct them, and then it's usually a fight against themselves because they never had to do more than 10 minutes of cardio, and they never had to measure all their meals, and they never had to do daily administrations to just do two shots a week, and that was it, you know.
00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:12.000
So all these little adjustments then later come on, and and uh that's what separates the real winners uh from the from the guys that don't progress.
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And we see that at the pro circuit quite a bit now.
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Like some guys that just don't really progress from a certain point, and they just stuck, and then they blame the judges, and they don't know, I don't know what to change, and this and that.
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Get a really good coach and start living the you know the lifestyle that all the amateurs are living that are uh not there yet and really want to turn pro, but they don't have the genetics, right?
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They have to leverage every single little thing and treat it like a full-time job.
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Um yeah, and that's where the changes happen.
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When you look at it historically, for younger guys that don't get like where bodybuilding came from, like Rich Gusperry was the first one to track food.
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He became obsessed with calorie books and stuff.
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Lee Hanney, when he was winning Mr.
00:10:59.600 --> 00:11:01.039
Olympia, never tracked his food.
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He said what if he fell flat he'd eat another potato, but he never measured anything, he didn't need to.
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Right.
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And before that, Frank Zane used to track his stuff in the 70s, but no one cared.
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Arnold didn't Arnold couldn't tell you how much he ate, he had no idea.
00:11:14.399 --> 00:11:17.440
Danny Padilla, when he used to compete, same thing.
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He would look at some calories, but he had he was just guessing.
00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:22.000
And he wouldn't be particular with his food.
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Before the 1980 Olympia, he just he would just reduce his calories going into the show, but he would still eat garbage food.
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He would eat pizza, he would just eat a little piece of pizza.
00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:33.519
But again, the genetics are so strong it didn't matter.
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You can't for Mike Mencer, Mike Mencer used to eat freaking muffins with butter.
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You know, you can't copy stuff.
00:11:40.559 --> 00:11:41.600
That's just how that works.
00:11:43.440 --> 00:11:43.600
You know?
00:11:43.759 --> 00:11:47.600
Yeah, well, yeah, Crystal Meth probably helped a ton of air and again the deck.
00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:52.000
Yeah, it's just thank God for Reddit nowadays to blood your appetite.
00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:52.799
Yeah.
00:11:53.039 --> 00:11:54.000
What's up, y'all?
00:11:54.159 --> 00:11:56.399
So it's been a while since I checked the YouTube analytics.
00:11:56.559 --> 00:12:00.399
So it's looking like 55% of y'all are not subscribed.
00:12:00.559 --> 00:12:13.200
And if you guys have found value from this podcast during your one-hour cardio sessions, then if you'd like to help support the pod, if you could just click the subscribe and the bell button if you haven't already, it'll help us immensely.
00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:22.240
And I'm sure you guys have noticed as the podcast has grown, it's been easier and easier for me to reach out and get guests on that used to never give me an ounce of their time.
00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:30.000
So it's all thanks to you guys that we can have these conversations that five years ago I couldn't really even have in person, nor was I comfortable to.
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And uh the world is changing year by year, and it's all thanks to you guys supporting content like this and making this a very open space.
00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:43.200
So if you guys would also like to support the podcast, Code Nile for Young LA and Huge Supplements.
00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:45.840
Young LA is the clothing brand I've worn in a bunch of my podcasts.
00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:53.600
You guys may have seen probably about 90% of what I've worn is like Young LA, whereas the other 10% play like thrift stores, maybe Amazon.
00:12:53.840 --> 00:12:59.279
And uh Huge Supplements is the company that I have that whey protein and whey isolate that's like really, really sweet.
00:12:59.360 --> 00:13:13.039
I like to mix it to ninja creamies and then um the magnify and the pre-workout products that give me a good pump, but also makes it look juicy whenever you're trying to take those uh after picks to show people that you I gym sometimes.
00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:17.039
So I appreciate you guys, and we'll get back to the episode.
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Well, my my devil's advocate position is I think that's where the art form comes in.
00:13:20.960 --> 00:13:33.679
Like you have for me, bodybuilding is you know, you got a great portion of it that's science, but then you still have this portion of it that's art, and just how well that person can can can pinpoint what you look like and predict what you're gonna look like.
00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:40.480
Obviously, predicting what you're gonna look like is based off of previous experiences, so that's more of like you know, your own little experiments with that client.
00:13:40.720 --> 00:13:54.320
But um, and then I think there's certain guys like Chris Assida that'll just be like, Yeah, I just pull it out of my ass, and then you end up looking crisp as fuck, and you're just like, I guess this guy has just seen that many physiques over the course of like that many decades that he just has it, you know.
00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:59.120
You're super hands-on, but you wouldn't feel randomly about how to explain why things are happening.
00:14:00.559 --> 00:14:00.960
Yeah.
00:14:02.320 --> 00:14:08.879
Um Kurt, is there any way that you would might be able to turn up your mic volume a little bit?
00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:10.399
Uh yeah.
00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:12.639
I think it's soft for everybody.
00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:18.559
Okay.
00:14:19.039 --> 00:14:20.799
Now, what's new on your end?
00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:25.519
Uh I just finished eight weeks off cycle and now I'm gonna jump it back on.
00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:27.440
I'm so excited, bro.
00:14:27.759 --> 00:14:29.360
It's gonna be my biggest cycle ever.
00:14:29.519 --> 00:14:29.600
Yeah.
00:14:29.919 --> 00:14:31.279
I did the last one.
00:14:31.919 --> 00:14:38.960
Uh I'm probably gonna go up to 750 test, 650 primo, or maybe 800 test and 700 primo.
00:14:39.840 --> 00:14:40.320
Yeah.
00:14:40.559 --> 00:14:47.440
And then sometimes like to add like 50 to 75 milligrams of NPP a week just to like make myself like a little bit less horny.
00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:51.600
You know, kind of just reduce the distractions, you know.
00:14:53.279 --> 00:15:00.559
Yeah, like I I want a little bit of MPP to save my joints because I'm going to be so freaky strong, but it's you're using it for a different reason.
00:15:01.039 --> 00:15:01.600
Hmm.
00:15:04.240 --> 00:15:06.559
I'm just there's a place for that too.
00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:07.600
Yeah.
00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:20.480
Well, anyways, I wanted to ask you guys um, because I know there's not too much research on this, but uh I feel like it's a very I don't know, I feel like it's a very interesting thing to talk about.
00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:26.080
But how much are genomic versus non-genomic responses applicable to our stack design and our total body optimization?
00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:29.120
Like what are some genomic versus non-genomic effects?
00:15:29.679 --> 00:15:37.039
So the rate limit on muscle growth seems to be in the ribosome where protein synthesis is actually occurring, and that's genomic.
00:15:37.679 --> 00:15:37.919
Right?
00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:42.240
So that's why doses vary, even response to exercise varies.
00:15:42.399 --> 00:15:45.840
It used to be thought of as like an mTOR thing or an angen receptor.
00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:53.039
Even if you're bombarding your angen receptor downstream, if there's nothing like if you don't have a ton of ribosomes, there's just not the same amount occurring.
00:15:53.360 --> 00:15:56.240
And you'll see that with even lack of food, right?
00:15:56.320 --> 00:15:58.000
Food itself doesn't drive muscle growth.
00:15:58.080 --> 00:16:00.639
There's an energy requirement, but it's not right.
00:16:00.799 --> 00:16:04.399
More food doesn't equal more muscle after a point, right?
00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:06.080
But again, that's because of the ribosome.
00:16:06.159 --> 00:16:10.720
So genetically gifted people have more ribosomes, they have more android receptors, they have better android receptors.
00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:16.399
So I would say a ton non-genomic stuff, strength, right?
00:16:16.559 --> 00:16:18.240
Aggression, right?
00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:20.559
I mean, there's some magnification there.
00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:30.879
One of the reasons why anadroll works synergistically with uh type one steroids, class one steroids, but it's not going to drive a ton of growth on its own.
00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:39.759
Yeah, I think from from the the like the mechanism of action with non-genomic is like cell surface and then genomic is intracellular.
00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:41.039
Yeah, yeah, right.
00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:46.960
You're looking at based to it, which it's exactly so occurs, right?
00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:50.080
Non-genomic is is rapid.
00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:54.240
Think of it like it's interactive to cell surface, it's it's rapid, it's hours.
00:16:54.480 --> 00:17:00.080
Whereas genomic or intracellular, we're talking like uh hours into days.
00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:02.960
So it's it's a much more broader effect.
00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:32.480
And that's sort of where you know my view with like non-genomic effects from or or extracellular effects with orals, for example, where we know andrigen receptor affinity intracellularly versus like like Kurt said, the class one steroids, you you're not seeing you're not seeing the same effect on genomic expression for say protein accrual or ribosome uh translation and transcription.
00:17:32.960 --> 00:17:55.039
But you're still seeing potential amplifications to calcium signaling, which then aids with muscular contraction or force production within the nervous system, or within the brain, where you're seeing rapid calcium changes, which is obviously how our neurons are dictated off a calcium-sodium channel balance to fire the neurons.
00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:58.640
So you can see then changes to uh dopamine signaling.
00:17:58.799 --> 00:18:11.039
So now you've you've taken a very fast-acting compound, like say halotestin or anodrol pre-workout or pre-competition, and you see that very fast one to two hour effect.
00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:23.119
If the person has, say, the psychology or the setup to utilize that effect, if you're looking at like muscle building, it's going to be the genomic impact all day long.
00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:33.440
And if you have drugs like anadrol and windstroll specifically, not only non-genomic things going on, but both of those drugs stimulate creatine production in the liver.
00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:34.720
So you're getting that immediate.
00:18:35.039 --> 00:18:42.240
That's why people will use Anovar pre-workout, because you're just getting a constant supply of extra creatine that'll make you stronger as well as the calcium ions.
00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:46.960
But the problem there is it pulls those three amino acids to make creatine out to the liver.
00:18:47.039 --> 00:18:50.240
So you have less available amino acids for protein synthesis.
00:18:50.559 --> 00:18:55.279
That's the reason why that the anabolic rating on both of those drugs don't line up in humans.
00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:57.440
So in a rat's liver, it doesn't do that.
00:18:57.680 --> 00:18:59.359
In a rat's liver, it'll cause muscle growth.
00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:01.839
In a human's liver, it'll cause creatine production.
00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:02.480
Oh, wow.
00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:12.559
And I figured that out uh at Merck looking at the metabolites with trembolone because we have charts for all the different animals and all the different products that they yield in different animals.
00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:20.559
And you could see that, you know, that's why the all that anabolic rating stuff's off, because roosters and rats and stuff, their liver is going to be different.
00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:25.680
Yeah, that's why you see the metabolites in humans and and animals differ vastly.
00:19:26.240 --> 00:19:31.039
And even amongst humans, females' livers respond slightly different than a male's liver.
00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:34.960
That's why insulin, that's why um growth hormone is different in females than men.
00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:37.119
That's why anabol that's why orals are different, right?
00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:39.920
So a woman can take anivar and gain a bunch of muscle.
00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:42.640
I don't know a lot of dudes that are gaining muscle on anivar.
00:19:43.119 --> 00:19:48.480
You know, again, it has to do with estrogen's response at the liver and how it's modulating its effects there.
00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:49.119
Okay.
00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:55.119
Uh, this might be a dumb question, but could someone just like drink EAAs during that workout to help supply those amino acids?
00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:56.480
Or is that worse?
00:19:57.359 --> 00:20:08.079
Yeah, it would help, but again, the one problem with EAAs, and I I I use them probably mostly for flavoring, is the body doesn't love free-four amino acids, it likes dietary peptides.
00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:12.319
So they're not going to be as effective as drink eating whole protein drinking.
00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:18.240
Yeah, I think well, with essential amino acids, you're just supplying like a good ratio to initiate protein synthesis.
00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:29.200
So you you get a good amount of leucine, isolecine, valine, and then the rest of the essential amino acids, but it's a complement to maybe some whey protein or or collagen protein and put that all together.
00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:31.279
And it's the same with the non-genomic responses.
00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:40.559
If they deplete creatine, it would make sense to supplement with a little bit of creatine pre-workout and maybe some electrolytes to help facilitate the muscular contractions.
00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:49.759
So you would like a long-acting steroid that has genomic responses, you would mostly focus on your nutrition.
00:20:50.079 --> 00:21:01.359
Whereas with the non-genomic pre-workout androgens, the oral steroids, you would have some sort of pre-workout cocktail alongside of that to help optimize the non-genomic signals.
00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:09.680
Um and that's why like a pre-workout cocktail can be infinitely complicated, but also enjoyable.
00:21:09.920 --> 00:21:11.920
But in the end, you get hypertrophy signaling.
00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:14.160
It's not like it's resulting in direct anabolism.
00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:22.480
The anabolism comes later from the long-acting esters and the protein intake alongside the non-genomic or the genomic response.
00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:26.240
But you also don't want, Dean might know more of this than I do.
00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:28.319
You also don't want mTOR constantly.
00:21:28.480 --> 00:21:40.720
You're not trying to constantly stimulate mTOR all day long by drinking amino acids in between your meals because mTOR because mTOR is a like a peptide receptor similar to insulin, it's going to downregulate with constant exposure.
00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:41.039
Right.
00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:46.160
So mTOR seems to be much better activated when there's windows in between.
00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:46.559
Right?
00:21:46.720 --> 00:21:53.920
Like you want to go a couple hours in between feeding so mTOR actually responds versus like constantly trying to push amino acids in all the time.
00:21:55.359 --> 00:21:58.880
Is that a better explanation for you know two and a half, three hour windows between meals?
00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:00.960
I mean you could probably Go four or five.
00:22:01.039 --> 00:22:06.160
I I eat more frequently because I just there's no way to get the food in if I'm spacing out every five hours.
00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:07.440
Right.
00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:14.240
But yeah, I mean more so in a natural person because uh on steroids things are kind of ramped up all the time anyway.
00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:20.880
Yeah, you have more protein retention or nitrogen retention in skeletal muscles, so there's there's more amino acids available.
00:22:21.279 --> 00:22:23.759
Whereas if it's natural, you'll have a cap on that as well.
00:22:24.079 --> 00:22:25.599
The liver's not breaking them down either.
00:22:25.839 --> 00:22:26.160
Right.
00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:26.799
Yeah.
00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:38.000
I think the other the other useful thing that we now understand with obviously that protein time and our protein spacing is there is no cap to the amount of protein that you can absorb.
00:22:38.079 --> 00:22:44.000
So the whole you know, 30-40 grams per meal cap that was once stated has been disproven.
00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:55.119
So we've done studies where a hundred grams of protein was given to humans and then tracked obviously the the the tracer spacing of how that protein was absorbed.
00:22:55.279 --> 00:22:59.839
So if you've got the digestive capacity, of course, you could take on higher amounts of protein.
00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:20.319
But the the bigger question when it comes to muscle protein synthesis seems to be the 24-hour availability of amino acids rather than acutely spacing like what what one of the theories was was the leucine threshold that Kurt's on about, where two to three grams of leucine seems to be the trigger that switches on mTOR.
00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:44.880
And mTOR tends to have a residual um active time, because you would never say half-life, active time of its mechanism of action of about three to four hours, and that's why they suggest you know you space out meals of like 30 to 40 grams of protein, that's a complete protein source where you're getting that two to three grams of leucine in order to switch MPS on.
00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:53.759
But MPS isn't uh mTOR isn't the only critical factor for protein accrual.
00:23:53.839 --> 00:24:06.160
We know mechanical tension and progressive overload and those uh external stimulus effects to initiate change in a muscle are just as important as switching the machinery on.
00:24:06.319 --> 00:24:17.440
Otherwise, you know, otherwise taking three grams of leucine every three hours would result in muscle protein synthesis, but it doesn't without the the stimulus effect.
00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:26.079
The other thing with muscle protein synthesis is that's not a good guide of muscle growth occurring because muscle protein synthesis is ramped up during injury, right?
00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:30.720
So if you cut yourself, muscle protein synthesis goes up, that doesn't mean there's new tissue being created.
00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:36.559
So we it's the studies that using that for growth are don't necessarily show that there's actually growth occurring.
00:24:37.359 --> 00:24:44.559
And I think I think part of the equation is also the anti-catabolic response that you get from some steroids, right?
00:24:44.640 --> 00:25:00.559
By whether that's inhibition of the glucocorticoid steroids or just making sure that you when mTOR is downregulated and AMPK is elevated, that you don't tap into skeletal muscle for energy production, but in the stored body fat or in the stored glycogen.
00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:12.720
Um and I think that part is part is also uh important in the equation because the less muscle protein you break down, the more you preserve and you build on top of that in a step-by-step fashion.
00:25:12.880 --> 00:25:28.480
Whereas a lot of guys, you know, on the diet they go on a thyroid medication and all the mitochondrial peptides that shut down mTOR, and then slowly over time they kind of wither away because they're actively breaking down the muscle tissue, even if they have some sort of glucocorticoid inhibition in place.
00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:44.480
Whether that's with phosphegetal serine or emodine or trimbolone or anivar, anything that blocks the glucocorticoid receptors, or actually like halotestin prevents the what is it, the breakdown of halo um glucocorticoids, but it also inhibits the receptor.
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:47.759
So you get this weird uh dynamic of high blood pressure.
00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:53.440
So all these things you kind of have to look into and then optimize everything for what you want.
00:25:55.680 --> 00:26:02.480
I don't think it's necessarily bad to shut off mTOR for four hours, eight hours, because that happens during training anyway.
00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:07.119
Yeah, training increases MOT C levels and downregulates mTOR.
00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:08.079
Yeah.
00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:12.240
And what Dean was saying about the leucine threshold is also age-dependent.
00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:15.359
That's one of the reasons why elderly people lose muscle, not just hormones.
00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:17.680
As you age, we have splenic extraction.
00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:24.559
So our spleen pulls amino acids out of our digestive system to use for energy, and that increases as we age.
00:26:24.799 --> 00:26:27.920
And then the leucine threshold also goes up.
00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:30.079
You need more leucine the older you get.
00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:31.920
And then elderly people tend to eat less.
00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:34.240
So they're eating less, but they need much more.
00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:40.400
Uh, it's why, like, a glass of milk can stimulate protein synthesis in a young child, but it's not enough for any of us.
00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:45.039
Yeah, that's that's why one of the hallmarks of longevity is skeletal muscle.
00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:50.240
Because you have this reservoir of amino acids that you can use later on in life.
00:26:50.480 --> 00:26:56.880
Yeah, of course, until you get an injury and you have full-blown sarcopenia, but that's where the longevity really takes a hit.
00:26:57.279 --> 00:26:57.440
Yeah.
00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:03.039
I was just gonna say with absorption, the medical definition of not absorbing something is diarrhea.
00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:07.599
So when people say, Oh, you can't absorb that, well, you would know if you're not absorbing it because it's gonna come out the other end.
00:27:07.839 --> 00:27:08.160
Right.
00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:39.839
And that that's what they're starting to think that some of the um I guess anabolic resistance in uh elderly people is due to changes in the gut microbiome and the enterocides of the gut to where the like what you're talking about, the malabsorption of the amino acids isn't isn't correct in that they're just not being pulled into systemic circulation towards muscle protein synthesis, um, you're still utilizing those amino acids for other causes.
00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:46.880
I think something that was really interesting that I read uh a long, long time ago, and it's a paper.
00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:49.599
I think the researcher was called Slater.
00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:52.640
Um I remember writing a piece about this.
00:27:53.200 --> 00:28:10.480
In order to put on one kilo of muscle tissue, so it's 2.2 pounds, you you need something like an energy surplus of I think it's about 1600 calories per per kilogram was what what I can sort of remember from the paper.
00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:17.279
Something like that, that the energy cost to make about 2.2 pounds of muscle mass was about 1,600 calories.
00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:24.400
And this is sort of where uh the whole thing that came out before about you don't need to eat in a massive surplus in order to create muscle mass.
00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:50.160
But what you still need to facilitate is your your daily I guess maintenance requirement of amino acids or protein in the body is about four to five grams, and then in order to put on a a pound of muscle tissue, which is about 440 grams, something like that, you need an extra, I think it's six to eight grams of protein retained per day.
00:28:50.240 --> 00:29:13.759
So when we're looking to create one pound of muscle mass per month, we need about 15 grams of amino acids being retained from our nutrition into our our composition goals of muscle protein synthesis and muscle protein repair, whether that's your skin, your hair, your nails, blah, blah, blah.
00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:30.559
So it that's sort of where when we we look at the energy cost of creating a pound of muscle mass, when people are saying in terms of eating at maintenance level, and you look at the energy cost to create that pound of muscle mass, it's not as high as you'd think.
00:29:31.759 --> 00:29:47.519
But the the background tier of being able to retain those amino acids and create the stimulus where the amino acids are utilized locally, is where that nuance comes in, then of like progressive overload and muscle hypertrophy in tandem with your your nutrition.
00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:48.079
Yeah.
00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:51.279
And only 10% of dietary amino acids go toward muscle.
00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:57.440
Like Dean said, there's many more important things in the body, like ATP that need amino acids, not just muscle mass.
00:29:58.160 --> 00:29:59.920
Yeah, just basic bodily functions.
00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:00.799
Yeah.
00:30:01.039 --> 00:30:07.440
Because if you look at how the liver operates, I mean a lot of energy is being utilized there.
00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:08.319
Yeah.
00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:14.880
When I think a common mistake too in bodybuilding is that on gear, guys think they need more protein.
00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:18.319
You technically need less on steroids because you're recycling them.
00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:19.359
You're not losing them.
00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:20.079
Yeah.
00:30:20.319 --> 00:30:20.559
Right.
00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:25.440
So a bodybuilder that eats 400 grams of protein is really not needed if they're on a big cycle.
00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:26.240
Right.
00:30:27.039 --> 00:30:30.319
Unless unless they don't eat any carbohydrates, which are protein-sparing, you know.
00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:36.160
So like I my my protein intake is a little bit higher than usual because I do better on a ketogenic diet.
00:30:36.319 --> 00:30:37.759
Is it good for muscle building?
00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:38.240
Not really.
00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:39.599
Did I get big enough on it?
00:30:39.759 --> 00:30:40.319
Sure.
00:30:40.880 --> 00:30:42.799
I still got 240, 50 pounds.
00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:43.440
It's fine.
00:30:43.920 --> 00:30:48.559
If I wanted to be 300 pounds, I'd need some protein-sparing carbohydrates in there.
00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:55.839
Um, and actually, then I'd rather have a thousand grams of carbs and maybe 180, 175 grams of protein.
00:30:56.240 --> 00:30:58.400
Are there any theories to support the opposite, though?
00:30:58.559 --> 00:31:01.599
Say that somebody is consuming 300 to 400 grams of protein.
00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:02.799
There's theories.
00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:09.680
What's the number dean that can contribute to hypertrophy?
00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:11.359
1.2 grams per pound?
00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:23.119
Yeah, I think uh it's uh if you look at like the ISSN's recommendations goes from like one gram per kilogram up to three grams per kilogram.
00:31:23.200 --> 00:31:30.079
And three grams per kilogram works out, I think, about 1.2 to 1.3 grams per pound.
00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:52.400
The the analogy, I guess, that where we sort of arrive today with more protein means more muscle growth, especially in enhanced at least, is potentially that the thought process was if you've got more androgens in the body, more android receptor activation, you have more likelihood for the machinery to build muscle protein.
00:31:52.480 --> 00:32:09.279
Uh but uh when you start having excess of protein beyond, like how quickly can you retain and build that muscle tissue, you start to see that the the new science that has come out in the last couple of years in terms of a lower protein take.
00:32:09.440 --> 00:32:24.720
So historically, I remember reading all this when I first got into bodybuilding like nearly 20 years ago, was the the golden number for enhanced bodybuilders was about 1.8 to 2 grams per pound protein.
00:32:24.880 --> 00:32:27.920
That was like where you were told to put your protein.
00:32:29.119 --> 00:32:30.480
Have we all tried it?
00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:31.440
Well, I certainly have.
00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:35.759
I've had like 1.7 to 1.8 grams per pound protein.
00:32:36.319 --> 00:32:45.839
The last time I competed before I retired, my protein was around I think 1.4, 1.5 grams per pound, so a little bit lower, but I was eating a ton of carbohydrates.
00:32:46.160 --> 00:32:49.039
Could that protein have come down much lower?
00:32:49.279 --> 00:33:12.160
Well, now in retirement, I hold 85, 86 kilos, so what's that, 186, 187 pounds, and I eat probably on a good day about 170 or 180 grams of protein, which which is below one gram per pound, and I've lost no muscle mass really.
00:33:12.400 --> 00:33:40.799
Um and and even then, like even training the gym, I can't remember the last time I'd done a bodybuilding split with martial arts now, so it's very difficult if you're still utilising uh a muscle for something other than progressive overload or lifting in the gym and you're eating like that what people are saying now 0.7, 0.8 gram per pound, you're still getting enough to either retain what you have present or build more muscle mass.
00:33:41.359 --> 00:33:55.519
Um what would be probably interesting is that if I just kept my diet as it is and obviously dose escalated, and all I'd done was just manipulate my carbohydrates and my my progress my train and overload and my strength.
00:33:55.920 --> 00:34:06.240
Would that prove for me personally, anyway, as an N equals one, gaining muscle mass by not changing my protein but changing just the energy requirement for more carbohydrates?
00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:19.599
So, what I've done many times in an off-season is escalate the dosages and the carbohydrates while taking the protein down to facilitate better digestion because the protein is a little bit more difficult to digest than simple carbohydrates, right?
00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:34.159
If you go with cream of rice or some fruit or regular rice or potatoes, sweet potatoes, whatever the client prefers, at one point you can end up with protein pretty low and the carbohydrates disgustingly high.
00:34:34.400 --> 00:34:39.119
We're talking about a thousand grams per day, or maybe between 500 to 1,000, depending on the workout, right?
00:34:39.199 --> 00:34:49.039
Your carb cycle based on your activity levels, and then maybe protein goes up a little bit more on rest days because that usually follows a uh a quad workout, for example.
00:34:49.360 --> 00:34:55.760
So I think the protein requirement is highly dependent on your carbohydrate intake and how much steroids you take.
00:34:55.840 --> 00:35:08.159
But yeah, escalating your steroidosis upwards and then escalating the protein intake upwards, and then being in this crazy surplus, that's a great way to increase your blood tuber nitrogen and your caratin levels.
00:35:08.639 --> 00:35:12.320
And maybe even your uric acid, depending on your food sources.
00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:15.599
Um and it does that put more burden on your kidneys?
00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:16.239
Maybe.
00:35:16.639 --> 00:35:21.199
Um as soon as you stay hydrated, the blood pressure uh we did a whole podcast on this.
00:35:21.519 --> 00:35:34.559
Um, but now I think people are a little bit more intelligent, and the amount of kidney issues documented in the fitness industry are also significantly less compared to this phase where everybody was doing high protein and and you know that stuff.
00:35:34.639 --> 00:35:38.320
Is that the mitochondrial peptides which help and and and blood pressure management?
00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:39.920
I'm sure that contributes also.
00:35:40.159 --> 00:35:41.760
Um yeah, yeah.
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:46.639
I did anybody, Card Dean, did anybody re reach out recently with kidney failure?
00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:56.719
Because that used to be like me and Dante Trudel would get these emails every fucking month, you know, like, yeah, well, you know, my cyst and C is three.
00:35:58.320 --> 00:36:00.559
Protein and urine is plus three.
00:36:01.599 --> 00:36:03.519
I haven't had any of those in a long time.
00:36:04.159 --> 00:36:05.760
I've seen one in four years.
00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:06.400
Okay.
00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:07.440
That's good.
00:36:08.800 --> 00:36:14.880
Because that seems to be like a previous generation thing where everybody had kidney failure, only half of the guys actually talk about.
00:36:15.599 --> 00:36:18.079
I feel like that's got to be more related to the blood pressure, though.
00:36:18.400 --> 00:36:18.559
Yeah.
00:36:18.880 --> 00:36:21.280
But for sure that it's so so multifactorial.
00:36:21.519 --> 00:36:30.880
Yeah, and then maybe the mitochondrial stuff, because like SS31 and MODC and SLU, that they have some kidney protective benefits because the mitochondria are highly active in the kidneys.
00:36:31.039 --> 00:36:40.239
And if you damage your mitochondria with all the oxidative stress and poor nutritional intake, um then obviously your kidneys are going to get the beating first, right?
00:36:40.400 --> 00:36:43.360
Besides the blood pressure and the other stuff.
00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:50.960
And I guess even like stack design, uh not to create inference, but well, we'll see now.
00:36:51.039 --> 00:37:02.719
This is probably a good thing, how EQ or EQ historically linked to kidney toxicity with the resurgence sort of renaissance of EQ coming back.
00:37:03.199 --> 00:37:08.400
Are we going to see in two years' time or a repeat of kidney issues?
00:37:08.639 --> 00:37:17.440
Or people are using now EQ alongside all the mitochondrial optimization strategies, blood pressure management, antioxidants, blah, blah.
00:37:17.679 --> 00:37:18.880
We might not see anything.
00:37:19.039 --> 00:37:37.840
And you sort of then see the change in the culture from the education where a compound that was once viewed off limits from a kidney perspective, or you really need to understand what you're doing if you're going to use this compound, we've reduced the potential risk with that compound from other strategies being employed.
00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:53.039
But it's like, I guess like anything over time, bodybuilders and their views towards nutrition, the quality of the food they're eating, especially like a high level, rather than going out and like smashing McDonald's and all that 90s bodybuilders with it.
00:37:53.440 --> 00:38:24.400
You know, I I I guess from a nutrition perspective, we still have guys who eat eat junk to an extent to keep uh their calorie requirements up, but we now view the importance of what nutrition does from an oxidative stress perspective and and understanding that okay, yeah, there's scenarios where you might need to utilize some level of junk food, but rather being like 80% of your nutrition, it falls to 10%, which is what it always probably should have been.
00:38:24.800 --> 00:38:27.280
What's that inflammatory fatty acids?
00:38:27.440 --> 00:38:31.119
Um arachidonic acids, yeah, omega-6.
00:38:31.760 --> 00:38:37.360
So so I I think some of that junk food is just the source of arachidonic acid.
00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:52.800
And I think you can either supplement with that to get some sort of inflammatory response, or you know, you you go with a lot of beet, uh meat, like a lot of uh beef in your diet, because that's saturated with arachidonic acid as well.
00:38:53.039 --> 00:38:57.519
And anecdotally, a lot of guys grew pretty well on just an all-beef diet.
00:38:58.320 --> 00:39:00.800
Will your skin get thinner, uh uh thicker, obviously.
00:39:01.360 --> 00:39:04.480
But you can fix that with you know some changes during a cut.
00:39:05.599 --> 00:39:20.480
There's a lot of coaches that do have like red meat around, particularly around the workout, whether or not that may be more beneficial or not, but I supplemented with arachnidonic acid from huge supplements like the last couple years on leg days, which would make the next few days pretty fucking terrible.
00:39:20.800 --> 00:39:21.039
Yeah.
00:39:22.639 --> 00:39:34.559
Like but I mean I'd say between that and the IGF one, the only other thing that was different is was like training volume and uh how I trained.
00:39:35.199 --> 00:39:37.599
Yeah, you're like set them up a lot the last couple of years.
00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:38.159
Yeah.
00:39:38.719 --> 00:39:46.719
I do f I do sometimes forget to mention that that the reacondotic acid that I I also took that sometimes aside from the IGF one on like days.
00:39:47.119 --> 00:39:49.760
Yeah, it's not exciting to talk about because it's just like supplement.
00:39:50.079 --> 00:39:55.679
So it's like fish oil and creatine, and you're like, yeah, it's more and more interesting to talk about uh IGF one.
00:39:55.840 --> 00:39:58.480
You were taking what IGF1 DES or IGF1 LR3?
00:39:59.199 --> 00:39:59.760
LR3.
00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:06.719
Uh I it's the only one that seems to be pretty readily available from HRT clinics these days.
00:40:06.800 --> 00:40:10.880
So I don't know if people can get Deaths prescribed that easily.
00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:15.280
I know I might have a guy for you that have recommenants.
00:40:15.760 --> 00:40:17.519
I already put him in touch with you.
00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:24.400
Oh I still haven't got to try that ProVigorous.
00:40:24.719 --> 00:40:25.280
Yeah, yeah.
00:40:25.760 --> 00:40:27.599
Now it's gonna mutate just like I did.
00:40:27.840 --> 00:40:28.480
I didn't know.
00:40:33.199 --> 00:40:35.440
So now I've been off of it for yeah.
00:40:35.599 --> 00:40:40.320
I remember when I look at like pictures when I was running it heavily, I look a little bit more weathered.
00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:42.079
But I was also training pretty hard.
00:40:42.159 --> 00:40:46.000
Um, so maybe you know all the grimacing probably didn't help.
00:40:46.480 --> 00:40:46.880
Yeah.
00:40:47.199 --> 00:40:47.519
Okay.
00:40:47.920 --> 00:40:52.480
Uh what do you guys think about um uh epicatechin?
00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:53.360
Epicatogen.
00:40:53.679 --> 00:40:55.920
Yeah, I ran it, but it raised my inflammatory muscle.
00:40:57.199 --> 00:40:57.679
Yeah.
00:40:57.920 --> 00:41:06.079
Um, I only used it from one source, so so I've I've I've talked to one person who had the same issue and also with other products of that source.
00:41:06.159 --> 00:41:11.519
Um, and then I talked with a couple other people who never got that issue from the same source and other sources.
00:41:11.679 --> 00:41:17.840
So there might be like some sort of individual response where some people just don't respond well to epicathogen.
00:41:18.079 --> 00:41:19.679
Did it give me results?
00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:23.440
Yes, but my inflammatory markers were like 22.
00:41:24.079 --> 00:41:27.599
Um so as soon as I saw that it discontinued, I stopped for a week.
00:41:27.679 --> 00:41:31.280
My inflammation came back down to three or something.
00:41:31.519 --> 00:41:38.480
Then I started it again for a couple days at the maximum dose of what was 700 milligrams or something like that, something crazy high.
00:41:38.719 --> 00:41:42.000
Um, and then it it came up again.
00:41:42.320 --> 00:42:02.559
So I never bothered getting it from another source because I I switched to uh injectable YK-11, and that didn't increase my inflammatory markers at all and gave me better results because you got you know the folostatin inhibition uh or the myostatin inhibition through my folostatin, and then an anabolic response through the androgen receptor.
00:42:02.719 --> 00:42:05.760
So personally, epicathogen is cute.
00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:06.639
Did it do something?
00:42:06.800 --> 00:42:07.440
Absolutely.
00:42:07.599 --> 00:42:10.800
Was it as good as injectable YK11?
00:42:10.880 --> 00:42:11.039
No.
00:42:12.079 --> 00:42:15.039
I guess that is interesting though, because it's just a flavonoid, right?
00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:16.559
Yeah, it's like technically a supplement.
00:42:16.880 --> 00:42:24.719
So I'm not sure if it's like a manufacturing thing where they put some sort of binders in there that irritate the stomach lining or or or cause an inflammation.
00:42:24.800 --> 00:42:31.519
I mean, I I tried ACE083, I have that at home also, and that increased my inflammatory markers as well.
00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:34.960
So maybe there's something alongside of the follow stuff.
00:42:35.119 --> 00:42:42.159
And I tried to do you know a lot of research on this, but I can't find anything in the scientific evidence, but it's it's it hasn't really been investigated.
00:42:42.239 --> 00:42:48.719
You know, there's no clinical trials on epicathogen, YK-11, ACE083, where they measure inflammation before and after.
00:42:49.039 --> 00:42:49.360
Yeah.
00:42:49.519 --> 00:42:51.599
Um I try to experiment on myself.
00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:54.559
Yeah.
00:42:54.800 --> 00:42:57.760
You send me your sources and I will avoid those.
00:42:58.159 --> 00:42:58.800
No, no, no.
00:42:59.679 --> 00:43:07.760
They're actually the ones bringing this uh to the market, but you just have to try it first because yeah, like if you check ACE083 and it's it's produced in bacteriostatic water, right?
00:43:07.840 --> 00:43:18.079
Uh okay, you can send it to Yanushik or or uh the chromate or wherever, they will check for the active pharmaceutical ingredient, not for the courier oil.
00:43:18.239 --> 00:43:21.039
But they also don't check for how your body responds.
00:43:21.280 --> 00:43:26.880
And so you would need to go to the clinical data to kind of piece that together and then try it yourself.
00:43:27.360 --> 00:43:33.280
Um so yeah, eventually you're gonna have to get your hands dirty and do the blood work.
00:43:33.440 --> 00:43:36.480
So I did some blood work this weekend and I saw about my inflammatory markers, right?
00:43:36.719 --> 00:43:39.360
High sensitivity serious protein was 9.6.
00:43:39.840 --> 00:43:42.719
Like, okay, let's get that down, run the experiment again.
00:43:42.800 --> 00:43:45.840
If it comes back up again, then it's not suitable for long term use.
00:43:47.360 --> 00:43:48.079
Unfortunately.
00:43:48.480 --> 00:43:49.519
But time will tell.
00:43:50.480 --> 00:43:50.960
Time will tell.
00:43:51.039 --> 00:43:53.119
I'll keep everybody updated through the QA.
00:43:53.679 --> 00:43:57.119
Like in other other experiments that I ran, they were a great success.
00:43:57.360 --> 00:43:57.679
Right?
00:43:57.760 --> 00:43:59.679
So there's also no clinical data on.
00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:07.119
And me and Dean have uh sacrificed our health potentially with all this mitochondrial stuff early on.
00:44:07.360 --> 00:44:09.760
And yeah, because there's only rodent models.
00:44:09.840 --> 00:44:11.440
So we were like, fuck it, we'll give it a try.
00:44:11.599 --> 00:44:15.440
We got the benefits from it, and now everybody has adopted it.
00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:25.360
Um but yeah, it could have turned out bad, and maybe the SLU megados just could have both given us cancer, and then we wouldn't be sitting here.
00:44:26.400 --> 00:44:33.360
Well, I I have yet to be the uh the adventurous one to go above six hundred micrograms.
00:44:33.440 --> 00:44:34.639
So yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:44:35.679 --> 00:44:52.239
But I will I will say um I retrialed uh 600 micrograms for a couple of weeks with with training for the the latest competitions, and I definitely did see an effect similar to previous years.
00:44:52.400 --> 00:44:54.559
You know, I hadn't taken it for quite some time.
00:44:54.719 --> 00:45:01.280
So but does that prove that those low dosages are what's correct versus the big dosages?
00:45:01.599 --> 00:45:03.199
Was some of it placebo?
00:45:03.440 --> 00:45:13.760
I'd I definitely like in terms of body fat and my ability to eat more food or eat more carbohydrates, because that's normally what I leverage in my diet if I'm hungry now.
00:45:14.480 --> 00:45:19.920
Definitely that the 600 micrograms uh brought a huge benefit.
00:45:20.239 --> 00:45:43.679
I guess the thing about epicatagin is if you view it in the same light as something like resveratrol, um obviously resveratrol is slightly different as a polyphenol, but things like flavonoids, polyphenols, our absorption or our like our ability to utilize them from the gut themselves is quite low.
00:45:43.840 --> 00:45:57.280
So if we're looking at like epicatagin, potentially how it's being delivered into the body as just an oral supplement, we might not see the changes over to folostatin and myostatin or IgF-1.
00:45:57.519 --> 00:46:03.280
If you look, there's a couple of papers covering the mechanism of epicateagin and muscle growth.
00:46:03.599 --> 00:46:17.840
It'd be very interesting if someone created like a liposomal version or a uh like a very spurse where you have like this cold water immersion technology for uh uh very poor soluble compounds.
00:46:18.239 --> 00:46:35.119
Would you see a change to the effect then if we if we're able to get it into systemic circulation and get it intracellularly, which is what the whole point of a liposome is, then you might see some meaningful change, like in in Steve's case, probably wasn't reaching the target area.
00:46:35.280 --> 00:46:36.159
And it's just a lot of people.
00:46:36.800 --> 00:46:41.679
I think it is because I did gain more strength and recovery was better, but I also was more inflamed.
00:46:41.760 --> 00:46:44.960
Again, I can't check my serum folostatin and myostatin levels.
00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:52.639
I tried to look for it, but there was some place where you could do it with an oral swap, but it was they didn't send the Thailand.
00:46:53.039 --> 00:46:57.360
Um so I I definitely did think that it did something on the skeletal muscle level.
00:46:57.440 --> 00:47:03.039
It was made with pepperine, so that should increase bioavailability and absorption a little bit.
00:47:03.280 --> 00:47:06.079
Um but yeah, for me it was not sustainable.
00:47:06.320 --> 00:47:08.960
And again, it's just part of the experimentation process.
00:47:09.039 --> 00:47:20.960
And if if you're spending X amount of money and you get high inflammation versus somewhere else where you get more results and no inflammation, then it yeah, it's easier to make the that's an interesting thing then.
00:47:21.039 --> 00:47:25.679
So when you were taking the epicatechin, was that the only source of bioperin as a supplement?
00:47:26.480 --> 00:47:27.440
Bioparine, yeah.
00:47:28.239 --> 00:47:29.360
So maybe it's the bioprene.
00:47:29.920 --> 00:47:37.440
People don't realize bioparin's job is basically to punch a hole in your gut wall, to let things go through the gut into the bloodstream.
00:47:37.840 --> 00:47:43.199
But I've taken other supplements with bioparine and it uh or biopeparine and it it it never did it.
00:47:43.599 --> 00:47:44.480
That's interesting.
00:47:44.559 --> 00:47:50.719
Because normally that that's sort of where if someone has leaky gut or dysbiosis, I tell them to avoid bioperin.
00:47:50.800 --> 00:47:52.719
And it's in bloody every supplement.
00:47:53.039 --> 00:48:01.199
People think, well, just throw bioprin into this to improve how we absorb the compound or to absorb the supplement.
00:48:01.840 --> 00:48:06.719
Some things like okay, turcaminoids, PQQ.
00:48:07.440 --> 00:48:12.000
Um I put a small amount in our B complex of supplement needs.
00:48:12.400 --> 00:48:19.119
But people look at bioprin or black pepper extract and think that it's harmless, but it actually makes your gut more permeable.
00:48:19.199 --> 00:48:23.280
And that's more permeable to everything, not just the supplements you've swallowed.
00:48:23.519 --> 00:48:36.480
So there could have been something there that was allowing uh LPS in your gut or uh endotoxins to go from your gut into your bloodstream, and that's where the CRAC the protein or the inflammatory marker increase came from.
00:48:36.960 --> 00:48:38.800
Maybe the capsules had endotoxins.
00:48:39.119 --> 00:48:39.519
Makes sense.
00:48:39.760 --> 00:48:43.920
And then the bioparine allowed them in, but it has nothing to do with the epicathogene.
00:48:44.079 --> 00:48:46.800
But I've heard several people have that issue, and others didn't.
00:48:46.880 --> 00:48:50.159
Uh so it really made it difficult to put your finger on it.
00:48:50.320 --> 00:48:53.519
Um but for me the risk of rewards was not there.
00:48:54.239 --> 00:48:55.440
So I just stopped it.
00:48:56.079 --> 00:48:57.039
That'll make sense.
00:48:57.280 --> 00:49:05.280
Especially because you would want to assume it's something that's like where most of the credible research is on benefits of vascular health function and metabolism.
00:49:05.760 --> 00:49:07.360
That is very robust scientific evidence.
00:49:07.679 --> 00:49:09.599
I did a deep dive on it and I was very impressed.
00:49:09.679 --> 00:49:19.760
And that's I was a little bit disappointed and sad that I got my inflammatory markers that high because if if C-reactive protein was normal, like before the experiment, I would have continued with it.
00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:22.159
And I would have recommended it to people.
00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:27.760
But after talking to some other people in the in the in the fitness space, they got similar responses or not at all.
00:49:27.920 --> 00:49:31.119
So that makes it a little bit inconclusive and difficult to give a recommendation.
00:49:31.840 --> 00:49:32.079
Yeah.
00:49:32.239 --> 00:49:39.840
Um so yeah, if anybody has you know wants to give the experiment a try with before and after blood work, go for it.
00:49:40.559 --> 00:49:44.960
Uh but with anything, like if it really worked, everybody would be using it.
00:49:46.800 --> 00:49:47.360
All right.
00:49:48.239 --> 00:49:49.840
It's not like anodrill.
00:49:52.320 --> 00:49:55.280
You started a lot of things, so hey, maybe we'll we'll get there.
00:49:55.519 --> 00:49:55.840
Yeah.
00:49:55.920 --> 00:49:56.559
Yeah, who knows?
00:49:56.639 --> 00:49:59.599
Maybe somebody's gonna brew some injectable epicathogen, you know?
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:01.039
Everything is injectable now.
00:50:01.199 --> 00:50:05.280
Injectable 5 would be the one Q, SLU, and all that stuff.
00:50:05.599 --> 00:50:11.679
The oral SLU PP 915 I'm running right now, and that's uh that's pretty potent.
00:50:11.920 --> 00:50:18.800
But it's a little bit difficult to like a dose conversion from the 332 to the 915, it's a little bit difficult.
00:50:18.960 --> 00:50:27.360
So I I'm I'm running 10 milligrams now, 915, and it's not as potent as 100 milligrams 332, but it comes close.
00:50:27.519 --> 00:50:29.440
Yeah, it's hard to hard to hard to say.
00:50:29.679 --> 00:50:36.880
Uh on that note, what do you guys think about um falestatin and Brian Moscow's new false statin that they've uh proposed to have less negative effects on blood work and CRP?
00:50:37.039 --> 00:50:38.320
Have you have you tried it at all?
00:50:38.639 --> 00:50:41.599
I was offered, I I'm not interested.
00:50:42.079 --> 00:50:42.719
Yeah.
00:50:43.599 --> 00:50:54.719
I I uh I think things like fallastin, uh how we're looking to the future to switch on and off genes and and all that sort of stuff.
00:50:56.320 --> 00:51:02.559
It's it's like going back to the conversation of genomic versus non-genomic when it comes to androgens.
00:51:02.880 --> 00:51:08.159
You start messing around with machinery that should have a a kill switch, if you want to call it that.
00:51:08.320 --> 00:51:26.079
You know, if we're we're looking at what we've covered before and in other anabolic ground tables is that when people reach like their their ceiling of growth, we we tend to view that there's potentially something going on in the background where myostatin is leveraged too high and it's basically saying, well, back off.
00:51:26.159 --> 00:51:40.960
You're you're getting to the point where the heart, the kidney, the liver, etc., we're we're at like maximum biology where the body's intelligent enough to know that you're gonna kill yourself if you keep growing at this rate.
00:51:41.440 --> 00:51:59.760
If you if you take that kill switch away by inhibiting phalastatin or you inhibit myostatin, and you're excessively grown, excessively grown, excessively growing, just like the theory of androgens and spilling over onto other androgen receptors.
00:51:59.920 --> 00:52:07.760
So if you take a massive dose of androgens, it's not just muscle mass it's acting on, it's acting on the brain, the heart, the skin, the hair, blah, blah.
00:52:08.719 --> 00:52:30.400
If you start inhibiting folostatin or myostatin in things like the heart or other organs that are uh surrounded by muscle or like the heart itself being a muscle, you're you're potentially open the gateway for something that you can't irreversibly go back on.
00:52:30.719 --> 00:52:33.679
So I I'm intrigued.
00:52:33.760 --> 00:52:52.239
Like everything, I'm intrigued by the science, I'm intrigued by, you know, the the potential for compounds here to exceed, you know, what what we're sort of seeing in terms of human physiology is once you get above 300 pounds, it you know, we're we're starting to see guys who are never exponentially growing.
00:52:52.400 --> 00:53:07.840
You might see someone get to 350, 400, but the effort required to get there and the health detriment to get there is not something that your average like 200 pound person is ever going to aspire to do.
00:53:08.159 --> 00:53:35.920
So uh with these new folystatin or myostatin inhibitor um peptides and the carriers and the delivery systems, it I'd just be like w with everything, the the intrigue to experiment is great and you know everyone is free to make those decisions, but really think of like the risk-to-benefit analysis of if this goes wrong, how wrong can it go?
00:53:36.079 --> 00:53:44.800
And what what is the the backup or the failsafe of if you've inhibited phallostatin and myostatin?
00:53:45.360 --> 00:53:49.360
How how can you restart that machinery if things start going wrong?
00:53:49.519 --> 00:53:53.039
Or I'm waiting for the compound you've taken to clear out of the page.
00:53:55.840 --> 00:54:00.000
The the problem is that with this compound that they developed, there's no scientific evidence, right?
00:54:00.079 --> 00:54:08.320
On their website, they reference other compounds as I don't know, whether that's a unique selling point or or to kind of bring it to market.
00:54:08.559 --> 00:54:20.880
Um and I haven't seen any robust before and after pictures or before and after blood work or before and after organ imaging for me to be convinced to give it a try.
00:54:20.960 --> 00:54:34.559
And that's why I'd rather take ACE083 because that has some scientific evidence in animal models and human subjects, and ACE0A3, unlike this, these other folostatin uh products, but again, no scientific evidence to back it up.
00:54:34.800 --> 00:54:37.199
A0A3 is inactivated in the bloodstream.
00:54:37.280 --> 00:54:38.559
So it only works locally.
00:54:38.719 --> 00:54:48.159
So wherever you want muscle growth, you have to inject it at the clinical dose of 200 milligrams, which I think is way too high because it kind of makes you feel off and inflamed, obviously.
00:54:48.400 --> 00:54:55.760
Um so you would spike body parts that you would want to improve at maybe 25 milligrams to 50 milligrams, depending on what you can tolerate.
00:54:56.000 --> 00:55:02.800
And again, if you're willing to subject yourself to chronic systemic inflammation, if that was the the uh the cause of it.
00:55:03.280 --> 00:55:16.400
Um whereas with these other ones, uh follow start and work systemically, A031, um, travagru mop, garetis MUP, uh did this one from uh what is it, biolongevity labs.
00:55:16.719 --> 00:55:27.280
Um if it all works systemically, I would need to see some solid evidence that it doesn't increase heart size or liver size or kidney size or whatever.
00:55:27.440 --> 00:55:34.159
Whereas you can make that research with the other compounds because Dells had clinical trials or or human scientific data.
00:55:34.800 --> 00:55:35.840
Is it super in-depth?
00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:40.960
No, because I I was looking at the inflammatory signals and I couldn't find anything there either.
00:55:41.440 --> 00:55:47.360
So um yeah, and and uh until I see somebody else turn into a freak, I'm not interested.
00:55:48.559 --> 00:55:49.519
Okay, okay.
00:55:50.239 --> 00:55:55.360
Well, Kurt wanted me to Kurt wanted me to talk to him about uh test GH and Anadrol.
00:55:55.840 --> 00:55:58.239
But uh I wasn't really originally planning to.
00:55:59.519 --> 00:56:01.519
So we'll uh alter it a little bit.
00:56:01.679 --> 00:56:07.199
But what are um some um you guys have discussed this a little bit in the past, especially on your anabolic round table?
00:56:07.280 --> 00:56:12.800
Um I know there's some new audience here, but uh if anything has changed in the course of the last year or so.
00:56:16.800 --> 00:56:23.599
What are the first what are the first errors that would come to mind that you would uh choose to avoid?
00:56:26.480 --> 00:56:29.039
Um in my mind?
00:56:29.599 --> 00:56:30.320
Superdroll?
00:56:30.719 --> 00:56:42.559
Halo testing T ball Mint maybe trend situation what no not meant you don't like ment?
00:56:42.880 --> 00:56:44.480
I thought you were gonna say DHB.
00:56:44.960 --> 00:56:47.760
Oh DHP, yeah, DHP, DHP would be at the top of that list.
00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:49.599
I thought Trent was S tier for Steve.
00:56:49.679 --> 00:56:50.800
Yeah, MENT is S tier.
00:56:50.880 --> 00:56:51.840
What are you talking about, Kurt?
00:56:53.119 --> 00:56:54.400
Continue, please continue.
00:56:54.800 --> 00:56:56.880
I've used Ment with no problem, I've used MENT with no problems.
00:56:56.960 --> 00:56:58.800
It just it's sometimes hard to manage.
00:56:59.119 --> 00:57:00.719
Yeah, it's not a beginner drug, that's for sure.
00:57:01.440 --> 00:57:02.719
It's not a beginner drug for sure.
00:57:02.800 --> 00:57:04.639
I mean, Tran in most people.
00:57:06.239 --> 00:57:08.000
Um it depends what you're talking about.
00:57:08.159 --> 00:57:10.480
Like you talk about competitors, you talk about lifestyle guys.
00:57:10.719 --> 00:57:13.599
Um I think I'm getting more concerned as I get older.
00:57:13.679 --> 00:57:18.000
I feel like lifestyle guys should be like test maybe GH, maybe Primo.
00:57:18.320 --> 00:57:21.679
I'm not even I wouldn't give him three Q as a lifestyle drug anymore.
00:57:21.760 --> 00:57:24.800
I think too many people think that that's a good choice.
00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:26.000
I don't know.
00:57:26.159 --> 00:57:29.360
Maybe for I think it's more intermediate or advanced for bodybuilding.
00:57:29.599 --> 00:57:30.800
Yeah, for competitors.
00:57:31.119 --> 00:57:31.760
Yeah.
00:57:33.199 --> 00:57:38.639
I mean for for competitors, uh, you don't avoid anything because you want to win.
00:57:38.880 --> 00:57:40.400
Well, uh, that's what I was about to say.
00:57:41.119 --> 00:57:54.480
I I think as time has gone on and the availability of information, there's and I say this quite a bit with with consults of hyperfixating on like what what else can I add?
00:57:54.719 --> 00:57:55.679
Is always the question.
00:57:55.840 --> 00:57:57.599
Like, what else can I add?
00:57:57.840 --> 00:57:58.159
Yeah.
00:57:58.400 --> 00:58:08.800
Rather than when you actually delve into like the the I guess the simpler things or the more shittier things of like how's your sleep?
00:58:08.880 --> 00:58:09.599
How's your training?
00:58:09.679 --> 00:58:11.119
How's your progressive overload?
00:58:11.360 --> 00:58:12.000
How's you know?
00:58:13.440 --> 00:58:15.440
Yeah, you know it doesn't matter.
00:58:17.760 --> 00:58:28.239
Yeah, you know, you would have meltren what happened to the renaissance of Dianalone after my It's not available, Dean.
00:58:28.320 --> 00:58:30.639
Like if you talk about something, it has to be available.
00:58:30.719 --> 00:58:33.599
Like DHD Metata is available.
00:58:34.480 --> 00:58:36.079
That's some good shit.
00:58:37.280 --> 00:58:53.039
I think you know, there this what else can I add, or this sort of uh mentality of uh someone's taking let's let's say, for example, off-season sort of setup, test GH, Primo, and maybe Anadrol or an oral.
00:58:53.440 --> 00:58:59.119
And now all of a sudden it's like, oh, what if I added mint, or what if I added MPP, or if I added Tren?
00:58:59.760 --> 00:59:07.840
And it's it's sort of like when you ask the question around like progressive overload, are you still progressively overloading every session?
00:59:08.000 --> 00:59:15.360
Is there any signs of recovery deficits or uh issues towards sleep, uh, issues towards digestion?
00:59:15.920 --> 00:59:22.000
If they're all green, then maybe you might say, okay, well, what does adding more androgens do into the equation?
00:59:22.079 --> 00:59:27.119
So what does adding another compound do over increasing the dosages of the others?
00:59:27.440 --> 00:59:44.000
And it's I I think some of it is like the intrigue, but a lot of it can sometimes be paranoia would be a very harsh word to use, but it's almost like, oh man, but only if I add it in this compound, I'm gonna be much stronger, I'm gonna be much bigger.
00:59:44.159 --> 01:00:01.199
There's like the last time I competed, where I I used next to none of the historical competition compounds, it sort of proved that a lot of guys second guessed on like, oh so when are we adding in windstroll?
01:00:01.280 --> 01:00:02.719
Or when are we adding in anovar?
01:00:02.800 --> 01:00:04.400
Or when are we adding in Tren?
01:00:05.280 --> 01:00:11.199
There's always this sort of like old school mentality of, oh, six weeks out, we better throw in the Annivar.
01:00:11.440 --> 01:00:15.679
Or we're now, you know, four weeks out, we need Windstroll.
01:00:16.239 --> 01:00:21.760
I think like the original question of like what what steroids shouldn't people use?
01:00:22.800 --> 01:00:32.559
Like Kurt said, if it's lifestyle people, which in today's age is becoming very, very popular, especially with hormone optimization.
01:00:33.039 --> 01:00:42.800
These guys see what we're talking about and almost have that intrigue of, well, I'm taking prescribed TRT, what happens if I add in X, Y, and Z?
01:00:44.480 --> 01:00:51.280
The other side of it then is a competitor who's already taking the historical compounds that are known to build muscle.
01:00:51.440 --> 01:00:55.760
And as I go off, I throw in this exotic thing, like let's say meant.
01:00:56.159 --> 01:01:29.119
Ment, you know, from a uh a neural perspective, so to improve like your mentality towards training, dopamine drive, etc., and obviously its effects on muscle building and it very being very similar towards 19 noors, you might not necessarily need that compound because adding in that compound might now change potentially towards a neurotoxic setup where you yes, you're gaining more muscle mass, but now you're damaging neurons.
01:01:29.199 --> 01:01:40.719
And it's it's again, you're sort of figuring out the pros and cons of gaining more muscle mass, but potentially getting more stupid over time, or having problems when you get older.
01:01:41.039 --> 01:01:45.119
And that's sort of where yeah, it comes back to like what I always say.
01:01:45.360 --> 01:01:51.360
You can have the short-term benefit, but what's the long-term gain, or what what's the long-term detriment?
01:01:51.519 --> 01:02:06.880
And what you don't necessarily want is you start throwing in compounds that are causing oxidative stress or dopamine, neurotoxicity, or whatever way you want to view it, that when you get to like 4550, you've got neurodegenerative disease.
01:02:06.960 --> 01:02:20.639
It might not be Parkinson's, it might not be Alzheimer's, but the actual uh firing capacity of your brain or your ability for like acetylcholine and memory and cognition is significantly hampered.
01:02:20.880 --> 01:02:32.719
Where, yeah, you can probably retrain some of it and you can with neurogenesis and activities towards neurogenesis, or using supplements like alpha GPC, choline donors.
01:02:33.599 --> 01:02:48.159
But you're you're now trying to manage a problem that's manifested, that's going to be there forever, that perhaps might not have never developed if you didn't have that initial, like, oh, what if I added in this compound?
01:02:48.320 --> 01:02:58.639
So it it's what I believe is a lot of people just have to stop getting greedy and thinking like more compounds is a better result.
01:02:59.039 --> 01:02:59.199
Yeah.
01:02:59.360 --> 01:03:16.960
But like like Steve said, there is a situation where someone has to obviously then start thinking outside the box of how can I gain, how can I, how can I get past the plateau, or how can I get a slightly extra one or two percent beyond where I am now?
01:03:17.119 --> 01:03:32.559
Because when you start and but what again I pull that back is for a normal amateur, that extra one to two percent from a local competition perspective, probably risk-wise doesn't really add up.
01:03:32.719 --> 01:03:49.519
Whereas when you start getting into professional level where you're earning a career and you're earning a salary to speak or whatever from winnings, that one to two percent translates over into something that's you know, if you asked any company, oh, we're gonna increase profit by two percent, they'd be like, How do we do it?
01:03:50.079 --> 01:03:51.679
So that's where I am.
01:03:52.639 --> 01:03:55.119
That's that's kind of one of the literally what I am.
01:03:55.280 --> 01:04:00.320
I'm I I'm at a point where I take drugs and it facilitates income.
01:04:01.440 --> 01:04:03.039
Because I come to a higher truth, right?
01:04:03.119 --> 01:04:06.000
I make dip dives, I inform the people how to use them safely.
01:04:06.239 --> 01:04:10.960
But a lot of people would still follow that, but they have no financial incentive or they don't compete.
01:04:11.440 --> 01:04:19.119
So what I do doesn't have to be copied unless you're generally interested in using that compound, but not for the sake of experimentation.
01:04:19.679 --> 01:04:23.679
I I literally supply my income by taking these drugs and doing the research.
01:04:23.760 --> 01:04:35.920
And there's not a lot of people who are on that spot on that position where you can be a professional drug user, literally, and and and help pay the bills that way.
01:04:36.639 --> 01:04:48.320
Because even most of the pros they don't pay the bills with their competition, they pay the bills with affiliate sales and that they don't have uh the gray market affiliates because uh they don't want to represent that.
01:04:48.400 --> 01:04:52.480
They they represent maybe a clothing company or a protein company, right?
01:04:52.559 --> 01:05:01.440
So they're not even yeah, it's a very weird position for me to be in, but just because I do polypharmacy doesn't mean everybody else has to do it.
01:05:02.159 --> 01:05:04.480
Um but if you do do it, use my coat.
01:05:04.719 --> 01:05:05.360
Much appreciated.
01:05:07.840 --> 01:05:08.480
There it is.
01:05:08.800 --> 01:05:15.920
I mean, beside beside like an IQ thing or getting dumber from drugs, I think something people don't talk about.
01:05:16.239 --> 01:05:19.920
Um it like for me, it changed.
01:05:20.000 --> 01:05:22.960
I have a lot of regrets about the amount of drugs that I did over years.
01:05:23.119 --> 01:05:28.079
It changed my emotional balance and my ability to control that.
01:05:28.239 --> 01:05:33.119
I have a lot of conversations with my wife with highs and lows that were not there before.
01:05:33.280 --> 01:05:39.440
Uh, and I haven't been on any amount of anything outside TRT for a couple years now, but the damage is done to my brain.
01:05:39.519 --> 01:05:49.920
So I have I have very highs and very lows, almost not like matic depression, but um it it tends to swing and I tend to react differently than I would have before I did those drugs.
01:05:50.079 --> 01:05:54.320
So I think people need to understand that it does change your brain permanently these things.
01:05:54.480 --> 01:05:59.119
And it's again, I I regret it because it wasn't gonna get me anywhere, right?
01:05:59.199 --> 01:06:00.800
So I used the Them to use them.
01:06:02.000 --> 01:06:04.000
You have a very promising coaching career.
01:06:04.559 --> 01:06:08.000
No, but my point is like it, but it doesn't I could never have been a pro bodybuilder.
01:06:08.159 --> 01:06:08.480
No, right.
01:06:08.559 --> 01:06:08.800
Yeah, yeah.
01:06:09.280 --> 01:06:11.280
So it's like I didn't need to do all those things.
01:06:11.360 --> 01:06:18.159
And that's kind of like how at least with lifestyle guys, I try to leverage coaching in that way, is that you know, less is generally more.
01:06:18.239 --> 01:06:24.320
Let's fix the other shit first because I don't want them to end up in a in a bad place from overusing this crap.
01:06:24.480 --> 01:06:24.639
Right.
01:06:24.719 --> 01:06:27.599
And you don't see it in the moment, you see it what years later when you stop.
01:06:27.760 --> 01:06:27.840
Yeah.
01:06:28.000 --> 01:06:28.159
Yeah.
01:06:28.400 --> 01:06:28.800
That's generally.
01:06:30.400 --> 01:06:32.239
They just don't talk about it because people, right?
01:06:32.400 --> 01:06:34.480
Men are taught to not talk about that stuff.
01:06:35.360 --> 01:06:38.880
That that's in that exact same spot until I took an SSRI.
01:06:39.280 --> 01:06:44.079
That's generally what I wanted to um to uh attack and what I wanted to focus on.
01:06:44.159 --> 01:06:48.320
Um, especially since uh uh a majority of my audience are competitors.
01:06:48.559 --> 01:06:51.119
I do have some people though that I feel like are gonna be future you guys.
01:06:51.280 --> 01:06:56.400
I have some like 19-year-olds that are extremely fucking smart, haven't started their first cycle, and I'm just like, wow, this is fucking research.
01:06:56.719 --> 01:07:00.400
But um honestly, we could list out a long list of all the peptides that have helped us.
01:07:00.559 --> 01:07:04.639
You guys have heard these peptides and these research chems in the podcast maybe a million times.
01:07:04.800 --> 01:07:18.800
Peptides I've used from APRs such as BPC157 and TP500 for soft tissue healing, retrutide, and other GLPs, mitochondrial support such as SS31, MOTC, FIME 01 and Q, methylene blue, SLU.
01:07:19.280 --> 01:07:20.400
There's a bunch of others.
01:07:20.559 --> 01:07:22.159
Obviously, the list goes on and on.
01:07:22.320 --> 01:07:37.519
One of my favorite things, though, that I've been utilizing, such as during my last prep, that has allowed my blood work to come basically pristine, aside from slightly elevated liver enzymes at about 60 and 130 one week after the show, and this is after a leg day because my dumbass doesn't want to skip a training day.
01:07:37.760 --> 01:07:40.000
These are probably the things that I think are the most important.
01:07:40.079 --> 01:07:51.599
So this includes like your injectable glutathione, injectable, or even just normal NAC, liposubbable glutathione, GI AIDS such as oral BBC, oral TB, uh KPV.
01:07:51.840 --> 01:08:06.159
A lot of these things have probably been very substantial in uh reducing oxidative stress and keeping all my blood markers down, and thus keeping me as basically health fee as fucking possible that you can be while you're bodybuilding.
01:08:06.239 --> 01:08:20.720
So I couldn't be more thankful to Mike for literally showing me the ropes and also providing me with all of these things, even the compounded supplements that he creates for blood pressure and reducing oxidative stress on all your organs, including your cardiovascular system, your liver, and your kidneys.
01:08:20.960 --> 01:08:24.560
All of these that he creates have been very substantial, honestly.
01:08:24.800 --> 01:08:28.640
So you can find any of these at his site, APR Health Solutions.com.
01:08:28.720 --> 01:08:34.159
And he has offered me a code, code NILE, for you guys to use, which will offer you a 15% discount off of all of that as well.
01:08:34.319 --> 01:08:37.439
If you guys end up using those and you like him, please let me know.
01:08:37.600 --> 01:08:42.960
Shoot in a comment, just give me a DM or something, and if you ever have any problems or any questions, I'll be here too.
01:08:43.119 --> 01:08:47.119
This is a community for me, even though I don't have a fucking Discord because I'm lazy as shit, but I fucking should made one.
01:08:47.359 --> 01:08:51.600
So love you guys and um keep training hard.
01:08:51.760 --> 01:08:52.960
Kurt, do you mind me asking?
01:08:53.119 --> 01:09:00.239
I I'm sure it's gonna be a little hard because there's so many variables, but what do you feel like particularly may have exacerbated that?
01:09:00.960 --> 01:09:01.840
Trend and Deco.
01:09:02.720 --> 01:09:04.880
So DECA gave me a lot of lows.
01:09:05.520 --> 01:09:08.560
Um that was usually estrogen driven.
01:09:08.640 --> 01:09:15.359
When I got my estrogen under control, it would not occur as much, but I'm sure it still had some sort of long-term toxic effect in my brain.
01:09:15.520 --> 01:09:28.880
Um and trend definitely made me more aggressive, and I'm not an aggressive person, so it wasn't necessarily so outward, but I think it was in the real in my interaction with my family, which is like the worst place to express that stuff.
01:09:29.199 --> 01:09:31.279
Like I'm not someone who go to a bar and get in a fight.
01:09:31.359 --> 01:09:33.760
I'm not someone who's gonna start a fight with strangers.
01:09:33.920 --> 01:09:41.279
Um, I just think an artificial level of aggression that then kind of stuck with me because my brain will still flip back to that place sometimes.
01:09:41.600 --> 01:09:41.920
Okay.
01:09:42.159 --> 01:09:44.560
Which is odd because I haven't touched that stuff in a long time.
01:09:44.720 --> 01:09:45.039
Yeah.
01:09:45.199 --> 01:09:53.119
Um, and I don't think I realized it until again, until after, definitely in the moment there were times when I took too much of it that like I could feel it coming, right?
01:09:53.199 --> 01:09:56.880
And all of us have probably injected enough trend that all of a sudden you could feel it in your blood.
01:09:56.960 --> 01:09:57.119
Yeah.
01:09:58.720 --> 01:09:59.920
You gotta get a filter, right?
01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:03.039
You can't just say what's on your mind because crazy shit will come out.
01:10:03.359 --> 01:10:05.680
Um yeah, mostly those two.
01:10:05.760 --> 01:10:07.439
I don't think the other ones really did much.
01:10:07.600 --> 01:10:10.720
It just it just something to watch out for.
01:10:10.800 --> 01:10:15.760
But again, if you're competing, you know, you know, Nick Walker said something fun to me once.
01:10:16.000 --> 01:10:19.119
He said, I hate when competitors tell me that they don't use trend.
01:10:19.359 --> 01:10:21.279
He goes, My response is, did you win?
01:10:22.479 --> 01:10:27.840
You know, so I'm it's like if you want to win though, your your next thing takes some risk.
01:10:29.199 --> 01:10:30.560
You know, you gotta do what you do.
01:10:30.640 --> 01:10:32.399
But like, is it needed for a lifestyle gun?
01:10:32.479 --> 01:10:39.119
No, I mean things, tons of levers you could pull, you know, to get to uh get a great physique without using stuff like that.
01:10:39.439 --> 01:10:42.000
Yeah, and if you use it, use a low dose.
01:10:42.239 --> 01:10:46.479
25 milligrams, 50 milligrams a week, like me and D have preached.
01:10:46.880 --> 01:10:48.239
That was less than I would use in a day.
01:10:48.319 --> 01:10:51.359
I mean, I'd be on to 150 a day.
01:10:52.479 --> 01:10:56.319
I mean, I try tried 150 a day until my organs start to fail.
01:10:56.479 --> 01:10:57.119
Yeah.
01:10:57.520 --> 01:11:02.560
Um, so I mean I also don't have like a I don't have a medium switch.
01:11:02.640 --> 01:11:03.840
I have an on and an off.
01:11:04.239 --> 01:11:06.319
You know, I think that's like an addictive thing.
01:11:06.399 --> 01:11:09.039
So I don't I don't know what low drug use looks like.
01:11:09.199 --> 01:11:14.720
This is the only time in my life that I've ever used anything at like a super moderate dose for long periods of time.
01:11:15.039 --> 01:11:16.239
Because you're still in TRT, right?
01:11:16.319 --> 01:11:17.199
A couple hundred milligrams.
01:11:17.359 --> 01:11:19.520
I've been 200, yeah, 100 twice a week.
01:11:19.600 --> 01:11:20.319
That's all I'm doing.
01:11:20.640 --> 01:11:21.359
NgH.
01:11:21.760 --> 01:11:23.760
I just I don't have the capacity for it anymore.
01:11:23.840 --> 01:11:25.039
I don't have the desire for it anymore.
01:11:25.119 --> 01:11:26.720
I I don't need to be any bigger.
01:11:26.880 --> 01:11:27.119
Right.
01:11:27.279 --> 01:11:29.840
Um, I just my head's just not there anymore.
01:11:30.079 --> 01:11:30.319
Right.
01:11:30.479 --> 01:11:33.199
You know, you I think we all grow out of it at some point.
01:11:33.439 --> 01:11:33.680
Yeah.
01:11:34.079 --> 01:11:39.760
And if you're maintaining on a moderate dose, then or or uh, you know, an exciting TRT dose, then why bother?
01:11:39.840 --> 01:11:40.079
You know?
01:11:40.239 --> 01:11:40.479
Yeah.
01:11:40.560 --> 01:11:42.159
Well, or at least if you achieve it, right?
01:11:42.239 --> 01:11:49.680
Like something that I'm super proud of is that I achieved for my genetics of physique that I was proud of, that I strived for I got there.
01:11:49.840 --> 01:11:50.000
Right.
01:11:50.079 --> 01:11:51.600
A lot of people never accomplished their goals.
01:11:51.680 --> 01:11:56.159
Like I got there, I was able to then back off and look at that and say that was an accomplishment.
01:11:56.239 --> 01:12:02.399
Let's put that on a shelf, and now I can help other people versus I think there's a lot of guys my age that just never quite got there.
01:12:02.560 --> 01:12:05.840
So they're gonna continue to push as long as they can, and then their health will fail.
01:12:06.079 --> 01:12:11.039
Yeah, 50 it's gonna be hard to really get that freaking physique.
01:12:11.680 --> 01:12:19.039
Yeah, so you know, it's coming from a slightly different perspective, but um I'm like like 10 years past my prime already.
01:12:19.119 --> 01:12:29.359
Like I peaked at 35 and have been dying, you know, I've been holding on for dear life, and now with the quadrare, I'm I'm kind of like, you know what, 600 milligrams a week.
01:12:29.600 --> 01:12:31.439
That's that's enough.
01:12:32.000 --> 01:12:40.159
I think j just from what Kurt said there, I think it's very interesting when you think about like that ego dissociation.
01:12:40.479 --> 01:12:49.359
And like when I originally retired, quote unquote, in 2022, in my mind I still had like all unanswered questions.
01:12:49.520 --> 01:13:01.359
I had like what ifs, and you're you're training in the gym, you're still you're still following a bodybuilding lifestyle once you've finished on on that sort of stage or scene.
01:13:02.159 --> 01:13:10.079
And then eventually, you know, going back in 2024 to do that like one last prep and settle all the what ifs in my head.
01:13:10.399 --> 01:13:15.680
Stepping away from like when I got off stage at the British Championships, I was able to say, That's it, done.
01:13:15.840 --> 01:13:18.159
And like even my wife said to me, Is that you done?
01:13:18.319 --> 01:13:39.279
And I was able to say, like, hand on heart, that's it, that ego is dissociated, and I can fully put that on a shelf and look at the trophies on the mantelpiece and whatever, and be reminded of the work that was done, but still continue with physique progress in a different, goal-oriented fashion.
01:13:39.760 --> 01:14:00.319
But sometimes I think about is it like when we're talking about the changes to the neurochemistry and the neurology aspect that the dissociation of the ego becomes much more difficult because you're relying on the androgens for that dopamine stimulation.
01:14:00.720 --> 01:14:31.359
And so you come off and you dissociate from that ego, but because the brain has changed in terms of its dopamine threshold or the amount of dopamine that you're producing, or there's an imbalance to dopamine serotonin, you're it's a lot harder to dissociate from that competitive side if you're much older, let's say someone who's like late 40s, 50s, who really should be maybe moving away, or you know, that is their life and they want to can keep can competing.
01:14:31.439 --> 01:14:53.760
But let's say they've had enough, they want to retire in their mind, like that's how bodybuilding's done, and they come off, they might find it difficult to dissociate away from that ego, that that dopamine-driven ego, because their brain chemistry is completely different on TRT or off versus when you were on as a competitor.
01:14:54.079 --> 01:15:04.880
So there's a lot of unanswered questions that you know, over time the brain health side of things towards competitors, especially older competitors, might manifest.
01:15:05.039 --> 01:15:38.000
And that's sort of where you find people who have developed an ego based on how they look, and being that big bodybuilder with a lot of muscle mass can't step away because from an ego or pride perspective, people view them as this powerful person that their whole reality is based on being that muscular person, that without that muscular physique, their ego is blunted, and they their purpose for life's purpose is well, what do I do now?
01:15:38.159 --> 01:15:43.119
I was always viewed as like for me it's like deing the 250-pound bodybuilder.
01:15:43.279 --> 01:15:46.960
Now I'm you know 190 pounds, and people are like, Who who are you?
01:15:47.199 --> 01:16:04.079
Like you you then carry that body as a badge of significance that people respect you for being that size rather than respecting you for what you achieved during your career, and taking that knowledge and passing it on to someone younger or a bigger audience.
01:16:04.479 --> 01:16:05.439
Yeah, you need to know that.
01:16:06.640 --> 01:16:16.720
That's something I really enjoyed talking to uh AJ Sims about is um and even Dom Cartoon, as we were discussing identity um and how that's very easy for you to to attach your identity to.
01:16:16.880 --> 01:16:31.920
And I think one thing that's really difficult for us, especially if you haven't been in a place where you've even discussed how important this is, or you've lost everything that you've had, is like building your identity on you were the person that was able to get there in the first place, and you're the person who had the drive to get there in the first place.
01:16:32.000 --> 01:16:34.399
You're not the person that is that, right?
01:16:35.199 --> 01:16:39.680
And at the end of the day, if you've gone there before, then you'll be able to get there again.
01:16:39.920 --> 01:16:43.039
Maybe somewhere else that might be even better for you now.
01:16:43.359 --> 01:16:43.680
Yeah.
01:16:43.840 --> 01:17:02.239
And I like Steve said, hobbies, having having something that you can dissociate from bodybuilding towards whether it's like music in my case, or uh video games, or building models or or whatever, shooting, archery, nature, walks, hikes.
01:17:02.399 --> 01:17:03.760
You have to have something.
01:17:04.159 --> 01:17:33.359
You have to have a backup plan, you know, and we've covered it before that you have to, if you're exiting out of the use of androgens, you have to have not only a backup plan for like your PCT or whatever, you have to have a backup plan for how you're going to like that rearrange your lifestyle or rearrange your life to to a new pattern and and that comfort of like tracking your food, your meals, your sleep, your training.
01:17:33.680 --> 01:17:44.239
When you take that away when you're finished with with competitive bodybuilding, it's then figuring out, well, how can I take that that discipline or that routine to something else?
01:17:44.560 --> 01:17:57.359
Because most guys will either be all in and try and transfer those skills to something new, or just be like, all right, I'm finished bodybuilding and end up just yeah, end up as a as a bag of shit.
01:17:57.520 --> 01:18:07.520
And their health, their mental well-being, everything just falls apart because it's like I can't be bothered anymore from following that lifestyle.
01:18:07.680 --> 01:18:11.760
Why would I, why would I, why would I apply that to other areas of my life?
01:18:12.159 --> 01:18:17.680
I think I think if you like instead of going 100% bodybuilding, you go maybe 50% enough to maintain it.
01:18:17.760 --> 01:18:20.079
I still eat healthy, I still do cardio.
01:18:20.399 --> 01:18:21.920
Do I do posing practice?
01:18:22.079 --> 01:18:23.359
Hell no, for what?
01:18:24.079 --> 01:18:26.079
There's nothing left to pose, right?
01:18:26.239 --> 01:18:34.640
Um, I still go to the gym, so the the basics of bodybuilding are still there, but I it's like 50% effort, which is enough to maintain, right?
01:18:34.720 --> 01:18:37.680
And have my faces where more motivated than other times.
01:18:37.920 --> 01:18:46.880
But all the extra time that you suddenly have by not doing excessive cardio and not making seven milk per day fresh, just having four, it's enough, right?
01:18:46.960 --> 01:18:48.880
Enough for 220 pounds, it's enough.
01:18:49.119 --> 01:18:54.640
And and not going to the gym for two hours, instead, you go an hour and 15 minutes, you have so much extra time.
01:18:54.720 --> 01:19:02.000
You got business, relationships, kids, pets, motorcycles, cars, whatever your hobby is, right?
01:19:02.159 --> 01:19:04.159
Making Lego, playing video games.
01:19:04.319 --> 01:19:12.960
It's like the veil of bodybuilding has been lifted, and you see that there's life to be lived, and then all you have to do is go live it.
01:19:14.239 --> 01:19:22.960
Um but some guys, their life was bodybuilding, and again, that the comfort of bodybuilding and the repetitiveness and the routine, they can't do it any other way.
01:19:23.439 --> 01:19:30.800
Um but again, yeah, I think if you switch that dedication to something else, a hobby or a business, you can be very successful there.
01:19:30.960 --> 01:19:42.000
And the funny thing is, like even though all of us are kind of retired and AJ Sims and Dominic Cardone and uh Justin Compton, and we're kind of retired from our own hardcore bodybuilding phase, we're still involved, right?
01:19:42.159 --> 01:19:47.920
We still help people, we still help the community, we still educate, we still coach, all that stuff is still going on.
01:19:48.159 --> 01:19:58.239
But for most of us, after we kind of semi-retired or fully retired, um success came and and and life opened its doors.
01:19:59.039 --> 01:20:01.279
And you don't see that when you're a hardcore competitor.
01:20:01.359 --> 01:20:05.680
That's one of the reasons why I never wanted to do it, because it's so boring.
01:20:07.199 --> 01:20:18.560
I think that's something that's cool though, that a lot of my audience does have is uh there's there's a lot of facets of life that they focus on, and they also have an understanding that they want to optimize their their life in multiple areas.
01:20:19.039 --> 01:20:40.640
Um so I think that's something that's nice because uh I think we've discussed enough on this podcast in the last couple years that um there's other areas to focus on within yourself, and there's also places where there's a lot of places where you want to just mitigate risks, right?
01:20:41.920 --> 01:20:43.359
Because you have a life to live in long term.
01:20:43.600 --> 01:20:55.199
But for a lot of guys who don't really have a life to look forward to, especially like say right now, maybe don't have a lot of people in their life, growth is the place where they can shuttle that energy into.
01:20:55.600 --> 01:21:07.359
Um and unfortunately, bodybuilding is the easiest, most visible, like it's almost almost feels like a easy quantitative measure of how much growth that you're making in the in the current time.
01:21:08.000 --> 01:21:14.479
You can literally see it every month as you grow, you know, versus some of these other places that are a little bit more complicated.
01:21:14.960 --> 01:21:36.319
So what I wanted to attack um is I really liked how when you guys were when you guys were ranking AAS, um how for example you discussed that some of the 19 noors, like you know, NPP like Nanginel Nangelone, for example, is something that you actually set lower than I would have expected.
01:21:36.560 --> 01:21:47.199
But in the end also it kind of makes sense to me, you know, where does this actually benefit somebody um long term aside from like some muscle gains that you could make from other compounds?
01:21:47.359 --> 01:21:59.520
And I think that's something that I don't hear very often because you do hear a lot of people in competing if they're not taking like primo or mass along their test in their offseason, they default to something like EQ or Nangelone.
01:21:59.760 --> 01:22:01.039
And it's still pretty common.
01:22:01.359 --> 01:22:22.239
So my goal in this podcast and even in this channel is to slowly shuttle people to understanding that maybe Nick said that, but I think for obviously genetics, uh genetics with the gun lifestyle pulls the trigger, everyone's genetics are different, but there's a different cocktail for everybody, and you don't have to actually take those things, you know?
01:22:22.560 --> 01:22:26.079
Like um Well, can I can I defend Nick for a second?
01:22:26.239 --> 01:22:29.279
Yeah on that uh because I'm sure he would let me speak for him.
01:22:29.520 --> 01:22:33.520
So knowing him, um I also know that we just joke around all the time, too.
01:22:33.840 --> 01:22:35.520
Yeah, no, I think he was just talking about competing.
01:22:35.760 --> 01:22:40.399
Uh so he actually uses a lot less gear than any, definitely less than any pro that I'm aware of.
01:22:40.560 --> 01:22:44.159
So he's like a very low gear user, people probably don't believe that.
01:22:44.399 --> 01:22:47.680
Um he's not abusive at all with stuff.
01:22:48.000 --> 01:22:53.199
Um so the trend thing was more of a like in prep and kind of a joke toward other competitors.
01:22:53.359 --> 01:22:53.600
Yeah.
01:22:53.680 --> 01:22:53.840
Yeah.
01:22:54.000 --> 01:22:58.159
Um, but he's not a he's not like a hardcore, you know, grams and grams of gear.
01:22:58.319 --> 01:23:00.560
So kind of guy.
01:23:00.800 --> 01:23:03.119
You know, he's truly a freak.
01:23:04.319 --> 01:23:05.199
For sure.
01:23:05.600 --> 01:23:07.199
Bro's fucking nuts, man.
01:23:07.439 --> 01:23:09.600
The last showing was awesome too.
01:23:10.079 --> 01:23:21.600
I um I I do I completely agree with what everything you've said there, Nile, and that like that comes back to the whole like six weeks out throwing in compound Y or Z.
01:23:21.920 --> 01:23:29.119
It's every person will find what suits them best towards the benefits, the risks.
01:23:29.520 --> 01:23:39.520
And you know, it it's probably to the detriment of all the cookie cutter coaches that used to just throw out like the same cycle to a hundred clients.
01:23:40.239 --> 01:23:49.840
People are now starting to see that or or understand the question when a coach says, okay, well, this is what we're adding in next.
01:23:50.319 --> 01:24:21.520
People are now taking that information on board and and asking the question or creating their own informed consent of, okay, well, I can understand let's say they were on 300 tests and they've built muscle appreciably, and now they've reached sort of a ceiling, and they've had to manage E2 to an extent with an aromatase inhibitor, is going to like the next jump to 500 tests or 450 or whatever.
01:24:21.840 --> 01:24:29.279
Is that a a good choice versus okay, let's put in a non-aromatizing androgen and escalate dose in that fashion?
01:24:29.520 --> 01:24:39.439
That the person has the the knowledge to say, okay, well, in the past, let's say you're just throwing a cycle 500 test, 500 primo.
01:24:39.600 --> 01:24:40.560
Why am I doing that?
01:24:40.640 --> 01:24:53.920
You know, whereas now it's sort of people understand the the individuality of building that stack to the person rather than the person fitting the the online stack that's thrown around.
01:24:54.159 --> 01:25:16.479
Um and that that's sort of where when we were ranking all the different steroids and where we we sort of personally put them, we ranked them from both the perspective of like what's a competitor going to choose, and what again we're lifestyle people, because the division between the two or the the blur and the line, it's not as obvious today as it was in the past.
01:25:16.720 --> 01:25:32.800
So you're you're trying to deliver the same uh shatification or classification of the the compounds that would suit like someone who wants to gain 10 pounds of muscle to have a better body image versus someone who wants to gain 20 pounds of muscle to be a better competitor.
01:25:33.439 --> 01:25:46.479
Um and that that's exactly where today we're now viewing the the education that we're given is allowing people to make a better informed decision.
01:25:46.640 --> 01:25:54.880
Um because uh if you go back like 10-15 years ago, I'm always sort of saying it in terms of informed consent.
01:25:55.039 --> 01:26:00.319
When you look online and someone's talking about a compound, and then you go, Well, I'm just gonna do what they don't.
01:26:01.279 --> 01:26:20.640
Have you truly, you know, gained enough knowledge to create your own informed consent that, okay, I understand the risks, I understand the benefits, and it's my choice alone to use that compound at that dose, not because Steve said he used this dose on his channel.
01:26:20.880 --> 01:26:35.039
It's that same principle now where it probably makes it a little more difficult for certain coaches to coach people because now they're asking questions, like you know, what why did why did you put that compound in?
01:26:35.840 --> 01:26:39.520
Steve talked about XYZ and then the coaches like dude.
01:26:39.600 --> 01:26:41.520
I've been I have 200 fucking clients.
01:26:41.680 --> 01:26:45.039
I don't know if I do research on these fucking stupid chemicals.
01:26:49.359 --> 01:26:50.960
You know, in the past it would have been exactly that.
01:26:51.039 --> 01:27:03.840
It would have been like 500 tests, uh 200 MPP, and uh one one anodroll, and then the next like four weeks, um, it's like okay, time to put in two anodruls and maybe a half a winch draw.
01:27:03.920 --> 01:27:08.239
Like it's just pure alchemy of just like making shit up as they went along.
01:27:09.039 --> 01:27:18.479
Now it's you know, people have that knowledge to create that informed consent where they can sort of say to a coach, yeah, I understand why we're doing that.
01:27:18.640 --> 01:27:26.000
Or they can ask for a bit of clarification of what what's the top process behind that behind that without insulting the coach, obviously.
01:27:26.560 --> 01:27:42.960
But it's it's removing that sort of cookie-cutter cycle setup, and one person's cycle might be certain a certain person's detriment that we're not all just copying one another what certain certain people are doing.
01:27:43.840 --> 01:27:48.800
You see the individuality that we talked about before with genetics, drug liver metabolism, etc.
01:27:50.000 --> 01:27:59.840
It's uh I I think you know, bodybuilding can we can we continue to improve the sport?
01:28:00.399 --> 01:28:00.960
I think so.
01:28:01.039 --> 01:28:07.520
I think knowledge we're we're still we're still at a point where knowledge is is gathering exponentially.
01:28:08.079 --> 01:28:26.239
But what I will say is in the last three years since we've sort of talked about the mitochondria optimization and all that aspects, we've seen healthier looking bodybuilders, but we've not seen bigger bodybuilders.
01:28:26.479 --> 01:28:39.840
So we're we're starting to see we're starting to see a change in the mindset of like top-level elite athletes of managing health correctly versus just exponentially growing.
01:28:40.079 --> 01:28:55.600
And and you you see that in in the physicality of a lot of competitors, the top-level competitors, is that they whilst yes, androgens will age your appearance slightly, quite a lot of them don't look as aged as what we've seen in the past.
01:28:56.000 --> 01:29:08.479
So we are seeing, I guess, that that knowledge transfer and people you know seeing what's best suited to them rather than what the coach thinks, you know, everyone should take.
01:29:08.880 --> 01:29:11.840
And that that's really important that we continue to give that message.
01:29:12.319 --> 01:29:21.840
I think what is happening now with the competitors, they got their contest prep coach and their online coach, which is us.
01:29:22.000 --> 01:29:26.960
They do their additional research, they get from the educators, they might run it past their coach or not.
01:29:27.279 --> 01:29:31.359
The coach is like, okay, we have this idea to get you in shape and winning.
01:29:31.439 --> 01:29:33.680
And if you want to run this extra stuff, just let me know.
01:29:33.760 --> 01:29:43.119
I probably don't know exactly how it works and how it interacts with the stuff I'm recommending, but at least keep it consistent for me to make the adjustments based on what else we need to do.
01:29:43.279 --> 01:29:51.359
And again, like Dean emphasized, what we see now is competitors that are fresher, less fatigued, more cognitively present.
01:29:51.520 --> 01:29:58.640
Um, instead of before, like in the early 2000s, late 90s, these guys were not there at all.
01:29:58.800 --> 01:29:59.840
Just watch the Mr.
01:30:00.000 --> 01:30:01.279
Olympia press conference.
01:30:01.359 --> 01:30:08.560
They were babbling and tired or smoking cigarettes backstage, and we don't have that stuff going on anymore.
01:30:08.640 --> 01:30:14.079
You know, all these guys are in a good mood and you know, energetic, they could stay at the expo all day if they wanted to.
01:30:14.159 --> 01:30:18.000
And I think that's some of the contributions we've made that these guys have adopted.
01:30:18.640 --> 01:30:21.279
Whether their coach agrees with it or not.
01:30:21.439 --> 01:30:31.840
Um, again, I understand that it's like for me, if I'm a drug researcher and I don't coach anymore, then I can infinitely produce content on new compounds and how they interact with each other.
01:30:32.000 --> 01:30:37.520
Whereas I don't expect the coach to keep up with that stuff unless they would be smart enough just to watch a channel.
01:30:37.680 --> 01:30:39.199
That's a couple hours a week.
01:30:39.520 --> 01:30:40.560
Stay up to date, easy.
01:30:40.800 --> 01:30:48.159
So watch the anabolic round table once a month, you stay up to date, and so and some of our podcasts, it's not that much of a time commitment.
01:30:48.399 --> 01:30:53.439
Um, but then at least they understand what the client would be want to run on the side.
01:30:53.760 --> 01:30:58.560
Again, that's at the highest level for the lifestyle guys, test primo, GH, done.
01:30:59.600 --> 01:31:00.000
Yeah.
01:31:00.239 --> 01:31:09.119
I think when it comes to competitors, I think the best angle is to trust your coach when it comes to the artistic perspective, trust their eye, especially if that's someone that you're looking towards.
01:31:09.359 --> 01:31:19.920
And that allows you to take off a little bit of stress, you know, a little bit of decision fatigue off of you, which is really, really important when it comes to the competing space, especially as prep and peak week rolls around.
01:31:20.079 --> 01:31:29.840
And then for you, have a good understanding of one, how your genetics are, how your personality is, and most importantly, biofeedback.
01:31:30.159 --> 01:31:44.159
Because um, like you guys have stated before, like if someone like say someone's taking a smaller dose of test and a higher dose of EQ, and then his com tea is just fucking through the roof and yeah, I was like not there and everything, like this is gonna affect not just this is gonna affect your look too.
01:31:44.399 --> 01:31:49.359
You know, not just how you feel, it's gonna affect your stress, your look, everything, your sleep.
01:31:49.680 --> 01:32:08.159
Yeah, and and with all the new fat burners, like some people really overdo them because they want to get shredded, but it like all ATX, SCU mitochondrial stuff, it also increases your carbohydrate requirement because you you kind of burn through a pyruvate and and your body temperature goes up, and that can affect your look and and your caloric intake as well.
01:32:08.479 --> 01:32:21.920
So if you decide to take that stuff based on a video I made or something we discussed in the anabolic roundtable, um, and you don't tell your clo uh your coach, then the coach is gonna be like, why is this guy also is fucking flat?
01:32:22.399 --> 01:32:36.800
And he's confused because you're actually speeding up your metabolism without telling them, and they might not understand that it's not a thyroid thing or a beta toadrenergic thing, it's it's a mitochondrial thing, and it requires a different strategy, right?
01:32:37.119 --> 01:32:50.399
So um yeah, the the the sport is evolving very, very fast, and it it can be hard to like I'm I'm getting stuff sent every single month of new new stuff to try, and it's hard to keep up to date.
01:32:51.279 --> 01:32:54.560
Speaking of uh mitochondrial and new stuff, um ATX.
01:32:55.039 --> 01:33:08.640
Um I feel like a lot of people uh just default to saying that just default to saying that they believe AMPK to be like anti anabolic or to be catabolic.
01:33:08.800 --> 01:33:22.880
But I know you were also stating before about like if you want to preserve your muscle, I I feel like a lot of this could be a lot of this could be prevented just purely through nutrition, even if AMPK is turned on, though, no?
01:33:23.279 --> 01:33:28.800
Yeah, so so ATX is uh ATX304 is a pan AMPK activator.
01:33:28.880 --> 01:33:30.560
So it really downregulates MTOR.
01:33:30.640 --> 01:33:40.960
And I when I was using it, I was noticing that I was recovering less and that my skeletal muscle fullness was lower, but that's also through the increase of glycogen utilization.
01:33:41.199 --> 01:33:52.720
So by increasing the carbohydrates, I was able to sustain some fullness, but the progression was not as good as I would expect on a certain dose of steroids until I took it out, and then I started progressing again.
01:33:52.800 --> 01:33:59.840
So on BAM 15, which causes a lot of oxidative stress, it's not something I would recommend, then fullness actually returned.
01:34:00.960 --> 01:34:10.079
And and recovery and strength increased, but body temperature also went up, and I felt sick because it's it's a more potent on coupler.
01:34:10.319 --> 01:34:15.439
So and then of course there's DNP, which well, let's not go there.
01:34:15.680 --> 01:34:27.119
So for lifestyle clients that don't want to burn or don't want to gain any more muscle mass, they're happy with their body composition, besides the fat, obviously, yes, I would lean more towards ATX.
01:34:27.359 --> 01:34:31.920
If muscularity is more of an issue to you, I would lean more towards BAM15.
01:34:32.079 --> 01:34:38.079
But then you shouldn't combine it with SLU, because that creates a lot of oxidative stress, obviously.
01:34:38.319 --> 01:34:42.239
You have upregulated mitochondria and a very potent uncoupler.
01:34:42.640 --> 01:34:44.960
And you also require more antioxidants.
01:34:45.039 --> 01:34:51.840
So certain things you can combine and certain things you can't, and then it really depends on your goal which of these compounds you want to utilize.
01:34:52.000 --> 01:34:57.840
Um, and both of them, if you utilize them correctly, it's almost illegal how much fat loss you you have.
01:34:58.159 --> 01:35:03.359
It's Do you have any it's saying it's the most dramatic fat loss I've ever had in my life.
01:35:03.680 --> 01:35:06.319
Do you have any ways to avoid the exhaustion on ETX?
01:35:06.640 --> 01:35:08.800
Yeah, so you have to combine it with SLU.
01:35:09.199 --> 01:35:13.439
And since it's not a very potent uncoupler, it technically it should be possible.
01:35:13.680 --> 01:35:18.640
But since BAM 15 is a potent uncoupler, I wouldn't combine those two together.
01:35:18.960 --> 01:35:21.279
But with BAM 15, you'll still be lethargic.
01:35:21.600 --> 01:35:23.600
I did experiment with ATX and SLU.
01:35:23.920 --> 01:35:25.920
Um but I was still exhausted.
01:35:26.560 --> 01:35:28.560
How much ATX did you take?
01:35:29.439 --> 01:35:32.399
Um capsules.
01:35:32.880 --> 01:35:35.520
It was one capsule from the guy from the guy that you sent me.
01:35:35.840 --> 01:35:36.880
Yeah, so that's 50 milligrams.
01:35:37.039 --> 01:35:37.520
That's too much.
01:35:37.600 --> 01:35:38.960
Yeah, I took I took 100 milligrams.
01:35:39.119 --> 01:35:40.319
200 milligrams is way too much.
01:35:40.399 --> 01:35:44.800
I was somebody has to figure out a higher truth, man.
01:35:44.960 --> 01:35:48.880
So 50 milligrams SLU, 50 milligrams ATX morning and evening.
01:35:49.199 --> 01:35:50.479
The fat loss was illegal.
01:35:50.560 --> 01:35:52.880
And that's what uh injectable glue.
01:35:53.039 --> 01:35:53.920
Yeah, really, Kurt.
01:35:55.199 --> 01:35:57.199
You wake up and you're like, what the fuck?
01:35:57.439 --> 01:36:01.520
And that's after a cheat meal, you know, and then the next day you're like, huh?
01:36:01.840 --> 01:36:04.880
And then next day again, this can't be good.
01:36:04.960 --> 01:36:07.279
I did my blood work and it was all in range.
01:36:07.520 --> 01:36:13.119
But that was like one of those compounds where you feel it's so potent that you must be melting something on the inside.
01:36:14.000 --> 01:36:16.399
And I my risk tolerance is pretty high, you know.
01:36:16.479 --> 01:36:20.079
But when I saw the fat loss, I'm like, you know, I'm I'm probably killing myself.
01:36:20.319 --> 01:36:21.760
You know, so I stopped.
01:36:22.560 --> 01:36:22.880
Yeah.
01:36:23.119 --> 01:36:25.199
I mean, it's kind of got a weird mechanism, right?
01:36:25.279 --> 01:36:29.039
It's like poking holes in your to like leak ATP out.
01:36:29.680 --> 01:36:34.000
Yeah, so it uncouples slightly, but it also optimizes mitochondrial function.
01:36:34.079 --> 01:36:39.840
And technically, if you combine it with SS31 and a good amount of antioxidants, it should be relatively safe.
01:36:40.000 --> 01:36:42.800
But this polypharmacy has never been investigated.
01:36:43.039 --> 01:36:45.840
And it's the same as running like a high-dose trend.
01:36:46.079 --> 01:36:52.399
It's it's the the body composition changes are so fast that you know that you're damaging something.
01:36:52.560 --> 01:36:58.640
It's it's like two, it's it's the same with like putting uh a four turbos on your engine and then throwing the nitrous at it.
01:36:58.720 --> 01:37:00.479
You know you're wearing that shit down, right?
01:37:00.640 --> 01:37:01.520
But it's still fun.
01:37:01.760 --> 01:37:04.560
It's still fun to do it on the on the track, right?
01:37:04.640 --> 01:37:06.880
So and and this felt exactly the same.
01:37:07.039 --> 01:37:11.279
It's like it it this is so dramatic, it must come at a cost.
01:37:12.000 --> 01:37:16.319
Um, so for short periods of time, when you need to get lean fast, I get it.
01:37:16.800 --> 01:37:18.560
Sustainable, hell fucking no.
01:37:18.720 --> 01:37:22.159
And I'm I'm probably the most highest risk taker of this panel.
01:37:23.600 --> 01:37:25.279
Garde is laughing his ass off, right?
01:37:25.359 --> 01:37:26.159
I still look good.
01:37:27.439 --> 01:37:29.039
Kidneys are not melting.
01:37:30.079 --> 01:37:31.520
But yeah, that's at that point.
01:37:31.600 --> 01:37:32.479
I was like, you know what?
01:37:33.039 --> 01:37:35.279
Yeah, this is this is probably too good to be true.
01:37:35.359 --> 01:37:36.560
So I figured out something.
01:37:36.720 --> 01:37:38.479
Would I recommend it for a short period?
01:37:38.720 --> 01:37:39.199
Sure.
01:37:39.439 --> 01:37:51.039
Uh, but I know that what people are gonna do, they're gonna go to the hotel buffet or or the the cruise where they eat like pigs and then run SLU and ATX not to get fat.
01:37:51.520 --> 01:37:51.920
Right?
01:37:52.079 --> 01:37:55.359
And then uh yeah, you wouldn't be visiting the sauna, that's for sure.
01:37:55.600 --> 01:37:57.680
I think some of them got that idea from you though.
01:37:58.000 --> 01:37:58.640
Yeah.
01:37:59.520 --> 01:38:01.439
I'm a terrible example.
01:38:04.239 --> 01:38:11.920
I'm not the influencer people should be following, but people I think everybody has like a hidden drug addict inside of them, and that's why they find my channel.
01:38:12.159 --> 01:38:12.960
Oh, for sure.
01:38:13.199 --> 01:38:14.960
I mean, this is bodybuilding, really.
01:38:15.359 --> 01:38:15.840
Yeah.
01:38:16.079 --> 01:38:20.239
Like I think Dean is the it's the least uh risky guy out of there.
01:38:20.640 --> 01:38:27.359
And uh yeah, so our our this panel is just putting we are nice nicely balanced panel, let's put it that way.
01:38:28.079 --> 01:38:30.000
I'm still I'm still intrigued.
01:38:30.079 --> 01:38:38.880
I mean, I've I've done my fair share of experiments, like I've said in the past, and the uh obviously stepping away from bodybuilding.
01:38:39.199 --> 01:38:58.880
I still follow like things like ATX and all these sort of new compounds that are coming, but my my days of doing what Steve is now still doing are are well and truly gone because I'm not thinking about like what what am I to gain from from doing it other than being able to put it out there as an educational set?
01:38:59.199 --> 01:38:59.359
Yeah.
01:38:59.760 --> 01:39:04.079
I mean I'm getting like the the as soon as I see a red flag, I just I abort.
01:39:04.399 --> 01:39:06.800
I don't want to persist through it anymore like I used to.
01:39:07.039 --> 01:39:12.399
Like, oh, I gotta get the data and the before and after pictures, and like if I see a red flag, I'm done.
01:39:14.560 --> 01:39:32.560
Kurt, since you only have uh about 15 minutes left, do you mind if I uh ask you, is there anything else that comes to your mind other than uh the 19 noors that you just you might slightly regret or you just wouldn't touch personally, even as a competitor, you would at least try to minimize use.
01:39:32.880 --> 01:39:36.800
I think Kurt regrets the most not starting at 25 years old.
01:39:37.439 --> 01:39:38.640
Yeah, probably.
01:39:38.800 --> 01:39:40.960
Yeah, because who knows?
01:39:41.199 --> 01:39:45.039
Um maybe you could have been a a fantastic 212 competitor.
01:39:45.680 --> 01:39:46.319
I might have been.
01:39:46.479 --> 01:39:46.640
Yeah.
01:39:50.880 --> 01:39:51.199
Yeah.
01:39:51.359 --> 01:39:55.119
I mean when I saw you at through the Olympia Olympia like two years ago.
01:39:55.600 --> 01:39:57.119
I was like almost 240 then.
01:39:57.359 --> 01:39:59.039
Yeah, you were full of house.
01:40:00.960 --> 01:40:05.359
Um things I would avoid.
01:40:05.520 --> 01:40:06.960
Honestly, I'd avoid insulin.
01:40:07.039 --> 01:40:11.840
I know that's probably not a popular thing to say, but it's the one thing you could do, you do it wrong once, it'll kill you.
01:40:12.159 --> 01:40:12.319
Yeah.
01:40:12.560 --> 01:40:14.560
Um and for most guys, it's just not needed.
01:40:14.640 --> 01:40:18.239
Unless you really need to eat that much food that you pancreas can't keep up.
01:40:18.640 --> 01:40:22.800
Um and I see that as a trend in the open guys, a lot of them are getting away from that.
01:40:23.039 --> 01:40:23.359
Yeah.
01:40:23.920 --> 01:40:28.079
Um but I mean, again, like anything else, I guess it can be used appropriately.
01:40:28.399 --> 01:40:30.000
Just something I would caution.
01:40:30.079 --> 01:40:31.920
I just don't think it's a need for most guys.
01:40:32.239 --> 01:40:32.479
Okay.
01:40:32.720 --> 01:40:32.880
No.
01:40:33.199 --> 01:40:33.760
I agree.
01:40:34.079 --> 01:40:39.279
And I used to be a big fan of insulin, but nowadays I think it's it's one of those last things.
01:40:39.359 --> 01:40:45.119
And then even then, you don't need it daily, you know, maybe on a high day or or carbload or whatever.
01:40:45.279 --> 01:40:51.920
Um I've only put three guys in the last four years on insulin, and it was just for a brief point where their A1C was trending up.
01:40:52.000 --> 01:40:52.239
Uh-huh.
01:40:52.399 --> 01:40:54.880
And in order to make more progress, we needed to keep eating.
01:40:55.039 --> 01:40:57.760
So it was just really the only thing to keep their health in check.
01:40:57.840 --> 01:41:03.600
But then I'm starting super conservative with it, and I'm watching and I make them send me blood sugar readings.
01:41:04.159 --> 01:41:04.560
You know.
01:41:04.720 --> 01:41:10.159
Um, I'm not I mean, I don't think this stuff's inherently super risky.
01:41:10.319 --> 01:41:16.960
I think dose, duration, and your pre-existing mental state is gonna dictate a lot of these things, right?
01:41:17.039 --> 01:41:23.520
Like a lot of guys get into bodybuilding with all sorts of baggage in the background and it's just gonna bring that shit out.
01:41:23.920 --> 01:41:24.479
You know.
01:41:25.680 --> 01:41:30.079
Yeah, I think I think the best thing people can learn is patience because it just takes time.
01:41:30.239 --> 01:41:36.239
And what you see in this new generation, like these 19-year-olds, 23-year-olds are sauced to the gills.
01:41:36.399 --> 01:41:40.399
They're just burning the candle from all angles with a blowtorch.
01:41:40.720 --> 01:41:42.479
You're gonna be dead by the time they're my age.
01:41:42.640 --> 01:41:43.039
Yeah.
01:41:43.279 --> 01:41:45.520
And you don't appreciate it until you get older anyway.
01:41:45.600 --> 01:41:51.600
I got, I mean, I hope that I have 25 years well, 25 years left in this planet, but that's maybe.
01:41:52.000 --> 01:41:54.399
There's not the listeners on this podcast, though, I'll tell you that.
01:41:54.880 --> 01:41:55.199
No, I know.
01:41:55.279 --> 01:41:56.000
I met them at the end of the day.
01:41:58.960 --> 01:42:00.000
A little bit upset.
01:42:00.720 --> 01:42:02.079
Like, what are you guys doing?
01:42:02.479 --> 01:42:03.039
You know.
01:42:04.720 --> 01:42:13.680
Um, uh, going off of what cur what you what what you were saying uh before I fucking fucking forget what I was waiting for insulin.
01:42:14.079 --> 01:42:14.560
Yeah.
01:42:14.800 --> 01:42:35.840
Uh one of the things that I've noticed as I've talked to some clients and some uh some coaches off here, uh, is the the substantial and like surprising to me genetic variance in someone's blood sugar response to using GH versus before they ever used it.
01:42:36.079 --> 01:42:38.560
I know one person, for example, started his first cycle of GH.
01:42:38.720 --> 01:42:40.399
I think it was only three or four I use.
01:42:40.880 --> 01:42:48.399
Um and in his offseason where he never had issues before, his fasting blood sugar rose to 108.
01:42:48.880 --> 01:42:49.039
Okay.
01:42:49.279 --> 01:42:52.479
So I wouldn't use fasting blood sugar as a metric for anything.
01:42:52.560 --> 01:42:56.560
So we're not we're taught to not really A1C.
01:42:56.720 --> 01:43:03.119
I only look at fasting glucose in people that are diabetic that have to manage your blood sugar because it's gonna you're gonna dawn effect, right?
01:43:03.199 --> 01:43:09.039
We all eat so much so often, it's never gonna really be, you know, rarely is it super low.
01:43:09.279 --> 01:43:11.199
Um I'm just looking at A1C.
01:43:11.279 --> 01:43:13.199
I don't really care what people's fasting glucose is.
01:43:13.439 --> 01:43:27.439
I also I try to avoid now, I think while I love that bodybuilding is getting healthier, I don't love the, I guess orthorexia, it's not the right word, but the hyper focus on all of these things that people do all day thinking that it's making them healthier, right?
01:43:27.520 --> 01:43:30.399
They track everything and it's a little obsessive.
01:43:30.560 --> 01:43:45.359
Like again, it goes with being an addict, is like, how many steps, how many this, how many this, how much salt, how like everything is like micromanaged, like checking your blood sugar, wearing a monitor, like all this craziness that does like I'm not a process person, I'm a results person.
01:43:45.439 --> 01:43:46.640
Like, what's actually occurring?
01:43:46.800 --> 01:43:49.359
Doing all this shit all day long is not getting you anywhere.
01:43:49.760 --> 01:43:58.159
I think I think what what you said, Kurt, with fasting blood glucose, there is too many variables that interfere with that measurement.
01:43:58.479 --> 01:44:14.479
But what I would say is if someone's fasting blood glucose with the introduction of GH has gone up quite significantly, you'd then want to do like data verification post-prangal after they've eaten meals to see what has changed.
01:44:14.800 --> 01:44:30.880
And normally that that fast and blood glucose effect is a consequence of like polysis of releasing fatty acids into the bloodstream and and interfering with the insulin receptor.
01:44:31.600 --> 01:44:44.000
But in saying that if someone's fast and blood glucose shoots up and then postprandial, we're not seeing the historical, like maybe say it was 90 or 85 the uh fast and glucose level.
01:44:44.319 --> 01:45:04.159
If we don't see that return, well then we can probably assume, or you could use a CGM to track that A1C is going to start trending up because the insulin receptor throughout today isn't as functional as it should be, and so you're sickening or you're glycating the red blood cells with glucose.
01:45:04.399 --> 01:45:18.640
Um but in saying that there's there's a lot of there's a lot of variables that play into insulin sensitivity when GH is being used outside of um lipolysis.
01:45:18.800 --> 01:45:26.640
There could be changes to um internal metabolic health from fluid retention causing, let's say, sleep apnea.
01:45:26.880 --> 01:45:34.239
And the the person now is chronically snoring and mouth breeding, which is now causing dehydration.
01:45:34.319 --> 01:45:38.399
And now that dehydration is causing elevated blood sugar.
01:45:38.560 --> 01:45:48.239
So the person checks their fast and blood glucose, but they've missed out on a critical step of actually hydrating upon wake before checking the fasting measurement.
01:45:48.479 --> 01:45:55.920
And now, like what Kurt has said, you're seeing a dawn effect or you're seeing dehydration from the night before from snoring or mouth breathing.
01:45:56.479 --> 01:46:05.840
That really, if someone is tracking fast and blood glucose, you have to be hydrated, and that means electrolytes and fluids.
01:46:06.159 --> 01:46:10.239
You have to be in a position where you're allowing that hydration to take effect.
01:46:10.319 --> 01:46:16.079
So you're you wake up, you hydrate, you wait about 30 minutes, and then check your fast and blood glucose.
01:46:16.319 --> 01:46:27.199
Most people roll out of bed, first thing they do is check their fast and blood glucose, and then start eating their first meal and then shower and get their teeth brushed and everything else.
01:46:27.520 --> 01:46:47.199
When I was coaching people, one of the first things I always said to people was, you wake up, if we're tracking blood pressure, you know, a couple of times per week, sit at the edge of your bed for three minutes, four minutes, nice steady nasal breathing, get yourself awake.
01:46:47.359 --> 01:47:15.520
Uh again, you're trying to remove any sort of cortisol awakening response under blood pressure reading, take the blood pressure reading, have their hydration requirements beside them in the room, like a bottle of water, electrolytes, hydrate, then spend the next 20 minutes either getting washed, brushing your teeth, like do everything, a small level of activity to allow what you've drank to hydrate your body, check your blood glucose at that point.
01:47:16.159 --> 01:47:20.479
If the first reading isn't correct, take it again.
01:47:20.720 --> 01:47:42.880
But similarly, a lot of people don't know how to take blood press uh blood glucose correctly in terms of like um the correct sterile technique to the finger, making sure that you know the first drop of blood that comes out that you wipe that away and get a new set of blood to the surface of the skin to take the measurement with, having the machine calibrated.
01:47:43.279 --> 01:47:55.760
There's loads of things involving it, but when this trend came out of let's all check our fast and blood glucose, you know, there's all little nuanced steps to it that people were then panicking when their blood glucose was 100.
01:47:56.159 --> 01:48:13.119
And uh, you know, I've as a highlight from whatever six or seven years ago on Instagram showing this is my fast and blood glucose after waking up, after having like a a a carb, a high carb day, or even my competitions carving up the day before.
01:48:13.439 --> 01:48:21.439
You wake up the next morning, your blood glucose was at six or whatever, a hundred and two or whatever it is in in US terms exactly.
01:48:22.720 --> 01:48:32.560
Have my like pint of water with some electrolytes in it, drink it, and then wait 30 minutes and recheck my fast and blood glucose, and all of a sudden it's back at 85.
01:48:32.720 --> 01:48:40.880
And it's like that's you waking up dehydrated, and you need sodium and fluid to manage the glucose in your bloodstream.
01:48:41.199 --> 01:48:48.560
That there's a lot of things that play into that one measurement rather than going, it's the GH that's caused the high fast and blood glucose.
01:48:48.960 --> 01:48:56.720
Yeah, and then you have the blunting of cortisol at night, and then maybe an overcompensatory cortisol release when you wake up, right?
01:48:56.800 --> 01:49:01.359
And whether that's to the alarm clock or you're like, oh shit, I gotta check my blood glucose levels.
01:49:01.520 --> 01:49:06.000
And then you get this cortisol dump, your your liver glycogen gets dumped, right?
01:49:06.159 --> 01:49:08.640
And then your blood glucose levels goes up because of that.
01:49:08.720 --> 01:49:12.079
It's like because you actually stressed out of your mind that you have to take these readings.
01:49:12.319 --> 01:49:14.399
I gotta do it first thing in the morning, bro.
01:49:14.720 --> 01:49:41.520
Um, the the thyroid conversion that that changes, maybe your free thyroid or your thyroid binding glamin levels are super low because you're in high dose steroids, and then you throw in the growth hormone, it starts converting all this T4 into T3, which can alter your blood glucose levels in a fasted state because you get a lot of uh gluconeogenesis in the morning because your liver glycogen is depleted overnight, and thus your blood glucose levels go up.
01:49:41.840 --> 01:49:44.000
There's so many things that go play into it.
01:49:44.159 --> 01:49:56.479
I think most people that live the lifestyle, eat good, do some cardio, maybe take a little bit of carnitine to help with the fatty acids that are being liberated from growth hormone, they should not run into issues.
01:49:57.840 --> 01:49:59.039
They should not run into issues.
01:49:59.199 --> 01:50:04.159
I know a guy that Live the lifestyle that take 18, I use a growth hormone, and their insulin sensitivity is fine.
01:50:04.319 --> 01:50:07.359
Fasting glucose levels are perfectly low in the morning.
01:50:07.520 --> 01:50:12.239
Hemoglobin A1C in range, and they're sliming a thousand carbohydrates every single day.
01:50:13.199 --> 01:50:20.560
Um I think the guys that worry the most are the ones that run into the most side effects.
01:50:20.720 --> 01:50:23.359
But when you live the lifestyle, you have nothing to worry about.
01:50:24.000 --> 01:50:26.960
Because you're doing everything right to sustain your health.
01:50:27.359 --> 01:50:31.119
I feel like that can happen often more with like people who are neurodivergent, though.
01:50:31.359 --> 01:50:33.439
Then you have to attack at a different angle.
01:50:33.680 --> 01:50:37.920
Yeah, that's like one point over a hundred, and then they're like stressed.
01:50:38.000 --> 01:50:42.880
And then next time it's 110 because of the cortisol release, self-induced.
01:50:43.439 --> 01:50:43.760
Yeah.
01:50:44.399 --> 01:50:46.000
It's like the backstage guy, right?
01:50:46.079 --> 01:50:48.000
That's almost in shape, but he's 99%.
01:50:48.319 --> 01:50:50.560
He's not happy with how he looks, and he looks in the mirror.
01:50:50.720 --> 01:50:51.439
I'm not there yet.
01:50:51.520 --> 01:50:56.079
And you get a cortisol dump, and then he looks 70% like he never died at all.
01:50:56.319 --> 01:50:59.119
He just sabotaged his own peak.
01:50:59.840 --> 01:51:01.760
I've seen it happen so many times.
01:51:02.880 --> 01:51:03.600
Backstage.
01:51:04.800 --> 01:51:10.239
They just sabotage themselves, and that's that's what's happening a lot with these guys that are kind of new to this.
01:51:10.560 --> 01:51:16.079
They they think they know, they have this knowledge presented to them, but they didn't really do additional research.
01:51:16.239 --> 01:51:21.760
And they sabotage their own bodybuilding with these kinds of uh nuances.
01:51:22.319 --> 01:51:28.399
But in reality, if you just put in the work, man, I like what Kurt says, just go with the results.
01:51:29.119 --> 01:51:30.000
Chill the fuck out.
01:51:30.560 --> 01:51:33.199
Trust in the process, you know, it's gonna end up okay.
01:51:33.600 --> 01:51:38.239
So I think education and consciousness of these things is very important, but then again, it's not it's not law.
01:51:38.399 --> 01:51:43.279
Like as long as you have a consciousness of like what's going on, experience will overrule everything.
01:51:43.520 --> 01:51:43.920
Yeah.
01:51:44.159 --> 01:51:47.760
But you need to get your hands dirty to get the experience.
01:51:48.720 --> 01:51:53.600
You know, you can learn, learn, learn as much as you want, but without the experience, it's all useless.
01:51:54.079 --> 01:51:54.319
Yeah.
01:51:54.720 --> 01:51:58.479
Speaking of water and electrolytes, I was just reaching for mine and realized I didn't have it with me.
01:51:58.720 --> 01:52:00.239
So it's been two hours and I haven't drank anything.
01:52:00.399 --> 01:52:01.279
I'm halfway through.
01:52:01.520 --> 01:52:02.000
Thanks, Dean.
01:52:02.960 --> 01:52:03.600
God damn it.
01:52:03.680 --> 01:52:06.399
Everyone's fucking picking up their water bottles.
01:52:08.000 --> 01:52:08.720
It's so funny.
01:52:08.960 --> 01:52:12.079
Remember the last podcast we did, it was like a talking about hydration, right?
01:52:12.319 --> 01:52:14.560
And say, Yeah, you need electrolytes for hydration.
01:52:14.720 --> 01:52:19.920
Like all these people, they don't understand that food has electrolytes.
01:52:20.800 --> 01:52:22.399
You can salt your meals.
01:52:22.720 --> 01:52:28.640
Oh, you need you need you need liquid electrolytes with glucose in there in the drink.
01:52:29.279 --> 01:52:30.560
Prime energy is what you need.
01:52:32.159 --> 01:52:34.159
You can have salt in your meals.
01:52:34.319 --> 01:52:35.840
You can have a pickle.
01:52:38.479 --> 01:52:40.560
You can have some sauerkraut on your meals.
01:52:40.720 --> 01:52:41.520
Good for digestion.
01:52:41.600 --> 01:52:41.760
Yeah.
01:52:41.920 --> 01:52:43.039
We'll discuss that tomorrow.
01:52:43.279 --> 01:52:50.479
So do you happen to have any extra time on um just really quick explaining the differences between the differences in growth hormone between men and women?
01:52:50.560 --> 01:52:53.600
The only thing I'm aware of is that maybe it hits women a little bit harder.
01:52:53.760 --> 01:52:55.359
Like, I can make it really simple.
01:52:55.760 --> 01:53:00.159
So estrogen, I'll try to keep this as simple as possible.
01:53:00.239 --> 01:53:02.000
So estrogen is a sex hormone.
01:53:02.079 --> 01:53:04.000
It's not an anabolic hormone.
01:53:04.319 --> 01:53:08.239
Uh its function is largely one of a negative growth regulator.
01:53:08.399 --> 01:53:14.000
So estrogen's role when it comes to anabolism is one of controlling growth in a negative fashion.
01:53:14.319 --> 01:53:20.800
So you have to understand that just because women have different sex organs than men, the rest of our organs generally function the same.
01:53:21.119 --> 01:53:25.039
They're identical, and our body responds the same way to these hormones.
01:53:25.279 --> 01:53:27.600
Um, what estrogen's role?
01:53:27.840 --> 01:53:31.600
So when you when you look at a female during ovulation, estrogen goes up.
01:53:31.680 --> 01:53:40.560
What occurs when estrogen reaches its peak is thyroid hormone goes down, blood glucose goes up, sex hormone binding globulin goes up, binding proteins for IgF go up.
01:53:40.720 --> 01:53:54.239
That's to free up energy for conception and protect the mother from getting too muscular so she can conceive and she doesn't need even more energy to power herself through the day so she can grow a child.
01:53:54.800 --> 01:53:56.399
Same thing happens during pregnancy.
01:53:56.479 --> 01:54:01.920
As estradin rises, sex hormone binding labigalin goes up to protect her from testosterone.
01:54:02.159 --> 01:54:14.800
The liver then releases binding proteins for IgF, which takes that IgF away from the muscle and puts it in the serum and either renders it useless or directs it to other tissues so she's not growing and so the fetus is not exposed to IgF.
01:54:15.039 --> 01:54:18.000
Fetus is exposed to IgF2 from the placenta.
01:54:18.159 --> 01:54:23.520
If a fetus is exposed to IgF one from the mother, it will become too large to fit out of the birth canal.
01:54:24.079 --> 01:54:24.479
Right?
01:54:24.720 --> 01:54:30.000
So um what so the difference then is exactly there.
01:54:30.239 --> 01:54:42.000
What happens, because females tend to have typically higher estrogen, or at least during three parts of the three weeks out of the month than a man, is most of that, the most of the um the IGF response.
01:54:42.239 --> 01:54:47.199
So IgF is responsible for 70 to 80 percent of the responses from growth hormone.
01:54:47.359 --> 01:54:54.720
So the IGF response that we all rely on when we inject growth hormone, a female is not going to benefit from that aspect of it because hers is bound.
01:54:54.960 --> 01:54:55.199
Right?
01:54:55.359 --> 01:55:05.600
And you see this, and I think this is where the misconception got bodybuilders, they're they're on a cycle, an around a high aromatizing cycle, and they go with their blood work, and their IGF's at 500, and they're like, wow, I'm super anabolic.
01:55:05.760 --> 01:55:06.640
No, no, you're not.
01:55:06.720 --> 01:55:08.640
That IgF is pulled away from your muscle.
01:55:08.720 --> 01:55:13.520
You can't see the IGF that's acting, that's splice variant that's actually growing muscles inside your muscle.
01:55:13.760 --> 01:55:15.920
So you can't test that on to biopsy.
01:55:16.079 --> 01:55:19.600
Well, IGF serum test is not a test designed for athletes.
01:55:19.840 --> 01:55:22.640
It's falsely used by doctors who don't understand it.
01:55:22.800 --> 01:55:24.079
You really just want it in range.
01:55:24.239 --> 01:55:35.199
What we use it medically for is to find either acromegaly giantism or a liver disorder where the liver is not producing IGF in response to growth hormone, and that's where drugs like incrolux come in.
01:55:35.279 --> 01:55:38.960
You get a child who has growth hormone, but their liver doesn't produce IgF.
01:55:39.119 --> 01:55:44.319
So then you give them Incrolux so they can they can continue to grow at an appropriate rate.
01:55:44.479 --> 01:55:44.720
Right?
01:55:44.800 --> 01:55:46.159
That test is not designed for us.
01:55:46.239 --> 01:55:48.640
It doesn't matter what your serum IGF is, right?
01:55:48.800 --> 01:55:51.119
As long as it's in range, who the hell cares what it is?
01:55:51.199 --> 01:55:52.800
It's not telling you anything about your physique.
01:55:52.960 --> 01:55:55.119
If you want to know if your growth hormone's working, look in the mirror.
01:55:55.279 --> 01:55:57.920
Growth hormones is addicted drug.
01:55:58.159 --> 01:56:01.840
No, I hate to say this because guys think they're like, I can't tell if it's working.
01:56:02.000 --> 01:56:02.960
Well, then it's not working.
01:56:03.119 --> 01:56:05.359
Sorry, dipshit, it's not working because look in the mirror.
01:56:05.600 --> 01:56:06.880
It when it works, it works.
01:56:06.960 --> 01:56:14.399
You should look fuller, you should be bigger, you should be sleeping like a fucking baby with weird ass dreams, and you should be getting leaner, right?
01:56:14.479 --> 01:56:16.479
Your parents should be falling off of you while you're growing.
01:56:16.560 --> 01:56:18.159
That's how growth hormone works.
01:56:18.319 --> 01:56:24.159
If it's not doing those things, like your shoulders aren't getting bigger and capped, it's not working.
01:56:24.399 --> 01:56:31.039
Um, and it doesn't mean taking more necessarily is gonna do it because if your growth hormone is garbage, taking more ain't gonna do anything.
01:56:31.199 --> 01:56:33.680
Um, but that's that's really the difference.
01:56:33.760 --> 01:56:37.600
So women don't get an IGF response from GH the same way that you and I get.
01:56:37.760 --> 01:56:42.560
So what happens is if you go over a certain amount with women, they tend to just get sides.
01:56:42.640 --> 01:56:45.760
They get joint pain, they get all sorts of stuff because they get super lean.
01:56:46.880 --> 01:56:51.279
Yet, like I had my wife on one milligram of serostin for a year to help fix her knees.
01:56:51.520 --> 01:56:56.720
We went above that amount, all of a sudden she would get crazy edema in places in pain.
01:56:56.880 --> 01:56:58.560
It just doesn't have the same response.
01:56:58.720 --> 01:56:58.880
Yeah.
01:56:59.119 --> 01:57:04.159
So the only time it's ever used in a larger amount in women is with HIV, but again, you're talking about someone who's dying.
01:57:04.399 --> 01:57:07.439
So, um, and the side effects there are still prevalent.
01:57:07.520 --> 01:57:09.359
It just there's really no other choice.
01:57:09.840 --> 01:57:10.319
You know, the whole thing.
01:57:14.399 --> 01:57:21.439
Women in HIV, they're not getting milligrams anyway, unless they're over 140 pounds, which the last thought, most HIV patients are not over 140 pounds.
01:57:21.600 --> 01:57:25.279
So they're getting four milligrams or a slightly lower dose than that anyway.
01:57:25.520 --> 01:57:27.600
So it's they're not getting the same dose as a man.
01:57:27.760 --> 01:57:34.720
So, like for a woman, you know, two IUs is probably plenty for most women, maybe three if they tolerate it.
01:57:34.960 --> 01:57:35.760
They don't need a ton.
01:57:36.000 --> 01:57:41.119
Five, six units, not gonna do necessarily much for most women, except give them sides.
01:57:41.840 --> 01:57:42.000
Okay.
01:57:42.319 --> 01:57:46.000
You know, for a man, that's really you're just cracking the surface there for usage.
01:57:46.319 --> 01:57:46.560
Right?
01:57:46.640 --> 01:57:49.279
I don't most men, unless you're a super hyper responder to it.
01:57:49.359 --> 01:57:52.960
I don't know most men that are giving a whole shitload out of two I use or three I use a GH.
01:57:53.039 --> 01:57:56.079
You know, unless you're seven or better skin, that's about it.
01:57:56.319 --> 01:57:57.520
Yeah, fingernails.
01:57:57.840 --> 01:57:58.000
Yeah.
01:57:58.319 --> 01:58:01.039
But so that's where the difference is estrogen's the difference.
01:58:02.079 --> 01:58:06.720
That's a good explanation for why yeah, checking your blood work for the IGF one levels isn't really a dictator.
01:58:07.119 --> 01:58:16.720
No, but chase irons when things on when Chase was on a bottle a day of seristin, I mean he was doing blood work all the time, and his IGF and serum was like 170, 200.
01:58:17.279 --> 01:58:18.640
170, yeah, 180.
01:58:19.199 --> 01:58:20.479
An irrelevant number, right?
01:58:20.720 --> 01:58:25.600
And I've seen plenty of people clinically that have IGFs of 1100, 2,000.
01:58:25.760 --> 01:58:27.039
These guys aren't muscular.
01:58:27.199 --> 01:58:32.640
They have gigantic shaped heads, huge foreheads, huge jaws, monstrous hands, right?
01:58:32.800 --> 01:58:35.199
Wrinkles in the back of their head there, vacromegly.
01:58:35.439 --> 01:58:37.039
They're not growing like you think.
01:58:37.119 --> 01:58:40.239
It's directing IGF to all sorts of other places that you don't want it.
01:58:40.560 --> 01:58:44.000
And you see that vice versa with the Incrolex injections or IGF 1, LR3.
01:58:44.159 --> 01:58:45.600
It barely budges your blood work.
01:58:46.079 --> 01:58:53.039
But if you inject it in the same muscle over and over and over again, you bet your acid muscle is going to grow because you get a localized effect.
01:58:53.359 --> 01:58:56.239
That goes back to binding proteins because incrolex is not bound.
01:58:56.319 --> 01:59:05.119
Incrolux is pure IGF, so it's it's able to go where it needs to go, versus deaths and the other the LR3 are are they come bound.
01:59:05.199 --> 01:59:06.640
It's almost a flaw by design.
01:59:06.800 --> 01:59:10.079
It's like, why would you design it to be bound to binding protein three?
01:59:10.239 --> 01:59:11.840
You're basically rendering it useless.
01:59:12.159 --> 01:59:15.600
No, I think that they're designed in a way that they bind to it less.
01:59:15.840 --> 01:59:16.000
Oh.
01:59:16.319 --> 01:59:17.600
And increase the half-life, yeah.
01:59:18.079 --> 01:59:20.880
It's just not as effective as Incrolex, that's why they're not prescription drugs.
01:59:21.039 --> 01:59:21.680
Yeah.
01:59:22.000 --> 01:59:26.640
Well, I mean, I got a lot more bang for my buck at the Incrolex than the IG10R3, yeah, that's for sure.
01:59:26.720 --> 01:59:29.359
And it's cheaper milligram for milligram anyway.
01:59:29.600 --> 01:59:33.600
But the bottle is 40 milligrams, so people are like, oh, it's 700 bucks.
01:59:33.760 --> 01:59:37.199
Yeah, but calculate it to the milligram, and then you see that it's like$17.
01:59:37.840 --> 01:59:40.239
You know, it's way more affordable than IG10R3.
01:59:40.399 --> 01:59:43.840
It's$40,$50, unless you get it from China.
01:59:44.159 --> 01:59:49.520
We from an anabolism point of view, you have to understand estrogen's real role there is not even any tissue creation.
01:59:49.600 --> 01:59:51.680
It's it does do red blood cells and hematocrit.
01:59:51.840 --> 01:59:53.119
It will cause that same as a woman, right?
01:59:53.279 --> 01:59:55.359
To endure in ovulation, red blood cell mass goes up.
01:59:55.439 --> 01:59:57.840
She has a period, she gets rid of those extra red blood cells.
01:59:58.000 --> 01:59:58.800
Same as the man.
01:59:59.359 --> 02:00:04.960
The reason why testosterone tends to cause hematocrit issues and stuff is not testosterone, it's the estrogen.
02:00:05.119 --> 02:00:08.960
Primobolin, trembolone, they don't cause red blood cell issues, right?
02:00:09.119 --> 02:00:11.520
That's one of the reasons why parabolum was prescribed.
02:00:11.680 --> 02:00:19.279
Because at a super low dose, right, 50 milligrams of purebase every 10 days caused bone mass increase without hematocrit increases.
02:00:19.439 --> 02:00:24.479
When they tried that with testosterone, it took like 600 milligrams of test to get the same amount of bone growth.
02:00:24.640 --> 02:00:26.720
But then people had all sorts of blood issues, right?
02:00:26.800 --> 02:00:27.600
And women can't take that.
02:00:27.680 --> 02:00:35.520
They were growing beards, versus on uh, you know, an amp of parabolum every 10 days weren't causing endrogenic sides in men or women.
02:00:35.760 --> 02:00:36.000
Right?
02:00:36.079 --> 02:00:41.920
So again, it goes the the aromatization is what caused a lot of the issues, not so much the pure drug.
02:00:42.159 --> 02:00:44.800
And also from a collagen point of view, that's not estrogen either.
02:00:44.880 --> 02:00:46.159
That's a that's an anabolic thing.
02:00:46.239 --> 02:00:49.840
The steroids that cause the most collagen production are the ones that don't aromatize.
02:00:50.079 --> 02:00:50.319
Right?
02:00:50.479 --> 02:00:53.359
Anivar, Winstraw, Primobolin.
02:00:53.600 --> 02:00:59.199
Um the testosterone causes some, but it's not nearly as strong for collagen production, right?
02:00:59.359 --> 02:01:00.720
EQ causes collagen production.
02:01:00.880 --> 02:01:03.439
None of those drugs are aromatized to any notable degree.
02:01:03.680 --> 02:01:13.199
I think that the problem in bodybuilding is everyone has is so backwards about estrogen that they're they're they're literally spinning, they're spinning their wheels in circles.
02:01:13.279 --> 02:01:14.319
So it doesn't make any sense.
02:01:14.720 --> 02:01:17.600
Okay, so um that actually that question actually comes up pretty often.
02:01:17.760 --> 02:01:26.800
So for someone who tends to have um hematicare being raised pretty regularly, where you know getting a phlebotomy obviously isn't very isn't very valid because it has to be a little bit too.
02:01:27.039 --> 02:01:30.560
But do you want me to you want me to explain when a phlebotomy makes sense and what the parameters are?
02:01:30.800 --> 02:01:41.039
Uh no, I was gonna ask, um, would you just recommend that they modulate their estrogen and maybe reduce it terrifying if if the the speed of which their hematocrit increases is too fast?
02:01:41.359 --> 02:01:43.520
Yeah, estrogen should always be kept in range, right?
02:01:43.600 --> 02:01:47.840
I mean it's fine if it's a point or two above, but it needs to be roughly in that range, regardless of what's going on.
02:01:47.920 --> 02:01:49.279
It's not anabolic.
02:01:49.439 --> 02:01:53.760
Um and you want to that would be the first thing, hydration.
02:01:53.840 --> 02:01:55.199
And hydration starts the day before.
02:01:55.279 --> 02:01:56.239
You see this in the ER.
02:01:56.479 --> 02:02:02.000
Patient are going for surgery, and even if you put fluid in them, their red blood cell count's skewed in the morning.
02:02:02.159 --> 02:02:05.439
You don't see an increase in, you don't see it appropriately until the afternoon.
02:02:05.520 --> 02:02:10.479
So, like a lot of times, if you want to see your red blood cell count in a more appropriate fashion, go get work in the middle of the day.
02:02:10.560 --> 02:02:11.680
It doesn't matter if you're fasted.
02:02:11.840 --> 02:02:19.199
Just go get in the middle of the day and your red blood cell count should be fixed because now you've had like a gallon of fluid that's had time to dilute your blood appropriately, right?
02:02:19.359 --> 02:02:25.439
But when you look at flombotomy, the things you want to look at are ferritin, uh platelets, hematocrit and hemoglobin.
02:02:25.520 --> 02:02:28.960
Just because hematocrit and hemoglobin are elevated doesn't mean you need flombotomy.
02:02:29.279 --> 02:02:31.359
Unless there's obvious side effects, like your beet red.
02:02:31.600 --> 02:02:33.600
Platelets are what cause aggregation of cells.
02:02:33.680 --> 02:02:36.720
That's what causes the thickness that's going to cause a stroke risk.
02:02:36.880 --> 02:02:43.359
And ferritin, if it's too high, it oxidizes just like iron does outside, and it can actually destroy your organs.
02:02:43.439 --> 02:02:44.800
But that's a long-term effect.
02:02:44.960 --> 02:02:55.279
Just because your hemoglobin and hematocrit are like a point over the range does not warrant giving blood, especially if ferritin is in the middle of the low end of the range because you're just making yourself anemic by giving blood all the time.
02:02:55.920 --> 02:02:59.600
Doctors a lot of times casually forget this because they're just trying to avoid liability.
02:02:59.760 --> 02:03:01.920
So you'll go in there and be like, oh, you got to give blood.
02:03:02.319 --> 02:03:03.199
They know better than that.
02:03:03.279 --> 02:03:05.199
They're just doing that to protect their own ass.
02:03:05.439 --> 02:03:05.600
Right?
02:03:05.760 --> 02:03:09.199
Especially if they know you're on steroids because they're worried you're gonna do dumb shit and hurt yourself.
02:03:09.359 --> 02:03:10.880
They just don't want to be liable for it.
02:03:13.760 --> 02:03:13.920
Okay.
02:03:14.079 --> 02:03:17.279
And there's so many so many methods to bring all these markers back down.
02:03:17.680 --> 02:03:18.000
Yes.
02:03:18.239 --> 02:03:19.039
Don't snore.
02:03:19.199 --> 02:03:19.920
Behydrated.
02:03:20.239 --> 02:03:20.399
Right?
02:03:20.479 --> 02:03:22.000
Like sleep, like Dean said.
02:03:22.079 --> 02:03:24.479
Like all these things like naturally kind of fix this stuff.
02:03:24.640 --> 02:03:29.279
But it's not it's not necessarily like just an androden-driven process.
02:03:29.439 --> 02:03:33.920
It's you know, androgens do drive it to some degree, but estrogen's gonna drive it more.
02:03:35.039 --> 02:03:37.600
Yeah, sleep apnea makes it a lot worse.
02:03:37.920 --> 02:04:03.279
I have seen uh quite recently, um not a coincidence, because it again when you when you delve into it, but when people do have hematocrit problems and they didn't have them previously, as you get older, your genomic response towards HFE and your retention of um iron or the action of hepcidin work and to break down iron can change.
02:04:03.600 --> 02:04:20.960
So while someone who's in their 20s could probably take a load of gear and never see their hematica change, as they get into their 30s and 40s, you can see this genomic shift where hepcidin production actually starts to downregulate, and now they're accumulating more iron.
02:04:21.119 --> 02:04:45.199
So I've had I've had about four consults in the last year where this change has just switched on for some guys, and some of them have been competitors in their 20s who left the sport and come back again, and now unfortunately, some of them can't use any more than TRT because the the hep sit in action isn't there anymore, so the iron is accumulating.
02:04:45.439 --> 02:05:02.000
You can't you can do phlebotomies, but the ir the ironic thing is the the action of a phlebotomy, removing a pint of blood, will lower hematocrit by about 7%, 7-8% is what the calculation works out at.
02:05:02.560 --> 02:05:09.439
That change in fluid volume from removing that point of blood actually stimulates the kidneys to make more EPO.
02:05:09.600 --> 02:05:20.159
And so over time you get a short-term change where hematocrit drops, but come 10 weeks later, your hematocrate is probably even higher than before.
02:05:20.239 --> 02:05:37.039
And and guys are then chasing phlebotomy after phlebotomy, and they're never really willing to accept well, the reason why you have the problem, let's say uh sleep apnea and everything else is ruled out, is because your genetics have changed and now hepsadin isn't working.
02:05:37.279 --> 02:05:53.119
And then you you could use chelators, you have prescription-based chelators, or you have IP6, which is basically um phytic acid, you know, the anti-nutrient thing that people talk about in nuts and seeds that chelates iron.
02:05:53.199 --> 02:06:01.920
But if you take IP6 as a supplement, IP6 would chelate zinc, copper, magnesium, iron as well, so it's not just selective towards iron.
02:06:02.319 --> 02:06:08.000
Oh, so if you have EDTA disodium chelate, it will also take all the minerals out.
02:06:08.159 --> 02:06:12.640
And then you have uh Dada that also acts as a chelator, but it's not very potent.
02:06:12.960 --> 02:06:25.439
Um and and so just to interject real quick about the the donations, if you do a power red donation, which returns the plasma, you get less of an erythropaedic response.
02:06:25.680 --> 02:06:27.199
But it still can occur.
02:06:27.439 --> 02:06:31.119
Or you have to do the micro donations of 100 milliliters every week.
02:06:31.439 --> 02:06:34.399
This is helping the the cyclists.
02:06:34.720 --> 02:06:35.359
Yeah, you know.
02:06:36.720 --> 02:06:43.600
I uh the eyes of a limic of literally when they take out a pint of blood, they put a pint of saline in.
02:06:43.760 --> 02:06:52.720
And that that temporarily will offset the change in blood volume that would stimulate EPO production.
02:06:52.800 --> 02:06:57.119
But similarly, again, you've still reduced your red blood cell count where you will see.
02:06:57.600 --> 02:07:05.279
So you still get an erythropoietic response, but it's significantly less if you return plasma, or whether that's saline or power donation.
02:07:05.520 --> 02:07:11.359
Um and again, you can do the micro donations, the 100 milliliters is every couple of days.
02:07:11.520 --> 02:07:13.920
Uh but that's like threading it, you know.
02:07:14.640 --> 02:07:14.880
Okay.
02:07:15.520 --> 02:07:22.880
And then you have an allopril, and thalbosarctane, methylene blue, natokines, serapepitase, lumbrokinase.
02:07:23.199 --> 02:07:27.279
There's so many supplements you can take to bring your hematocrits and platelets back in range.
02:07:27.439 --> 02:07:32.720
Even uh pentoson is uh is able to uh lower your platelet count.
02:07:33.359 --> 02:07:46.079
I think the the other important thing to flag here is don't be so focused on hematocrit and platelet count alone.
02:07:46.319 --> 02:08:06.319
If you've never checked your clotting factors, like your latum factor, or your protrombin or your ion or like all these markers of how quickly you clot, you could have normal hematocrits, normal platelets, but your INOR or your trombin time, pro-trombin time is really fast.
02:08:06.880 --> 02:08:15.680
It doesn't matter that hematocrit and platelets are in control, the ability for your body to form a clot is extremely fast.
02:08:16.159 --> 02:08:27.199
And if there's any like microtrauma or arterial cheering or whatever can generate a clot in the body, whatever you want to view it, that clot generation could be extremely quick.
02:08:27.760 --> 02:08:44.960
And all you need is for one clot to occur, for the platelets to respond, and for to not have uh an appropriate fibrinolytic response to dissolve that clock, and that clot reaches your heart or reaches like your your brain for cerebral vascular stroke.
02:08:46.319 --> 02:08:57.439
The most important thing that people should do if they're embarking down is with their baseline blood, understand your clotting risk uh away from just platelets alone.
02:08:58.560 --> 02:09:03.039
With uh synthetic estrogens, um smoking.
02:09:04.560 --> 02:09:06.079
Sorry, Kerr, what did you say?
02:09:06.560 --> 02:09:08.079
Smoking it is smoking, yeah.
02:09:08.319 --> 02:09:23.680
Yeah, I think I think from uh the the historical um synthetic estrogens and progestins, that was where some of the data surrounding like offset and female HRT came from.
02:09:24.079 --> 02:09:36.880
Um with bio-identical estradiol or or bioidentic progesterone, progesterone's anti-inflammatory as one side of how it acts in the body.
02:09:37.119 --> 02:09:50.479
That if you're taking the bioidentical forms, uh if estradiol caused clotting, then all the guys that are allowing their estrogen to run rampant for anabolism would be all having clots and strokes all over the place.
02:09:50.640 --> 02:10:11.279
So I think it's the synthetic versions like the etinyl estradiol and the things that were used primarily as contraception to interfere with natural hormone synthesis and levels where you see some of that that clotting offset, but from a bioidentical perspective, our own natural hormones don't seem to have that effect, to my knowledge, anyway.
02:10:12.319 --> 02:10:16.479
No, when you run the the synthetic estrogen through the liver, it's gonna be worse.
02:10:17.439 --> 02:10:18.079
Yeah.
02:10:18.399 --> 02:10:19.600
Um, I need to run.
02:10:19.840 --> 02:10:21.600
Yeah, it's good too.
02:10:22.000 --> 02:10:22.800
See you tomorrow.
02:10:23.039 --> 02:10:23.840
Yeah, I'll see you guys.
02:10:24.079 --> 02:10:25.039
Thanks for coming on, man.
02:10:25.359 --> 02:10:25.760
Thank you.
02:10:27.119 --> 02:10:30.399
Yeah, I'll ask you about uh Anagel and 10 another day.
02:10:31.039 --> 02:10:31.760
See you guys.
02:10:32.319 --> 02:10:35.439
A few of you have asked where I get my formal grade, Annavar and IGF 1.
02:10:35.520 --> 02:10:37.760
And of course it's not through Vinny and the Pygam Lot.
02:10:38.159 --> 02:10:39.520
It's optimized HP.
02:10:39.840 --> 02:10:41.279
Prescribed and through a doctor.
02:10:41.520 --> 02:10:50.800
And the reason why I helped start his clinic instead of joining an established clinic like Merrick is because I wanted a real say in how our clients are taken care of.
02:10:51.359 --> 02:10:55.680
And the honest truth, it also helps me make a living.
02:10:55.840 --> 02:10:57.439
But I couldn't do it through selling snake oil.
02:10:57.680 --> 02:11:02.399
Here's the honest truth is in a sport where everybody takes it, it stops being cheating.
02:11:02.720 --> 02:11:03.920
The game just changes.
02:11:04.560 --> 02:11:06.800
Now instead, it's about who uses it smarter.
02:11:07.279 --> 02:11:09.680
But your health is part of the scoreboard.
02:11:09.920 --> 02:11:12.960
You know, we go back and forth between pharma versus screen market here.
02:11:13.439 --> 02:11:17.279
And while it does help you travel, I really don't have the answer.
02:11:17.600 --> 02:11:18.399
That's your call.
02:11:19.039 --> 02:11:21.600
However, every bodybuilder should be getting quarterly blood work.
02:11:22.239 --> 02:11:23.359
Yes, even you.
02:11:23.680 --> 02:11:25.039
The guy who says he feels fine.
02:11:25.359 --> 02:11:26.880
So we built the membership around that.
02:11:27.119 --> 02:11:29.840
The bloods are free, and the membership is just what we call the discount.
02:11:30.079 --> 02:11:31.840
My accountant hates this next part.
02:11:32.079 --> 02:11:34.159
DMs are free always.
02:11:34.560 --> 02:11:35.840
Link is in the description.
02:11:36.079 --> 02:11:37.439
Sign up with code Nile.
02:11:37.920 --> 02:11:39.439
Send me a DM on Instagram.
02:11:39.600 --> 02:11:40.399
I got you personally.
02:11:40.800 --> 02:11:44.720
There's a lot I definitely wanted to ask you guys about, but maybe we could talk about it another day.
02:11:44.880 --> 02:11:46.079
We'll jump to the QA real quick.
02:11:46.319 --> 02:11:47.439
You can ask me anything, man.
02:11:47.520 --> 02:11:48.880
I'm always an open book for you.
02:11:49.039 --> 02:11:55.600
I also wanted to discuss uh your y'all's perception on the sweet spot that I've discussed on this podcast a lot of times before, too.
02:11:55.680 --> 02:11:57.920
But I think we could just talk about that another time.
02:11:58.239 --> 02:11:58.880
Sure.
02:12:00.640 --> 02:12:02.159
Sweet spot when it comes to women.
02:12:05.520 --> 02:12:07.920
I've been looking for it after 10 years of marriage.
02:12:13.520 --> 02:12:14.399
Crazy talk, bro.
02:12:20.479 --> 02:12:24.560
Um Real Viking Poppy says, damn, what a freaking awesome lineup.
02:12:26.319 --> 02:12:27.119
Where's the question?
02:12:28.239 --> 02:12:29.119
Where's the question?
02:12:29.600 --> 02:12:30.800
Did you get a lot of questions in?
02:12:30.880 --> 02:12:32.000
I got a lot of questions in.
02:12:32.640 --> 02:12:36.319
There's a lot of questions, which isn't gonna be fit in 20 minutes, but we'll we'll try our best.
02:12:36.880 --> 02:12:37.840
Get the best ones.
02:12:42.319 --> 02:12:50.000
Coach Conby asks, how how do you guys how they see the future of administering gear for non-prescription folks?
02:12:50.159 --> 02:12:50.640
Most people.
02:12:50.960 --> 02:12:54.800
You mean different routes of injections or different routes of administration?
02:12:55.119 --> 02:12:57.680
I think more so dosing frequency.
02:12:59.920 --> 02:13:16.000
A lot I I think we we probably already know the answer to this because we've been we've been talking about daily administrations of injections for a long, long time, yet standard prescriptions are still once or maybe twice a week.
02:13:16.399 --> 02:13:21.520
And this comes back to uh patient compliance.
02:13:22.000 --> 02:13:42.479
So if you think about you've got someone new who's like uh let's say you've got just some general population person who's gone into a TRT clinic and they're they they qualify for T or T and they're like what 39, have no real experience with any injections in their life and all that sort of stuff.
02:13:43.840 --> 02:13:51.760
And they they would prefer to administer it themselves rather than going in once or twice per week or once every two weeks for an injection.
02:13:52.239 --> 02:14:01.840
Imagine a prescribing doctor telling the person, well, I want you to inject 0.1 of a mil Monday to Sunday, and you have to do it every day.
02:14:02.079 --> 02:14:09.920
And for those who understand the logic of doing it every day, they might see the stable level benefit from it.
02:14:10.479 --> 02:14:20.640
But to the person who sees other people doing it once per week, it's sort of like, well, I'd just rather do it once per week than have the effort of having to do a daily injection.
02:14:20.960 --> 02:14:42.159
So it comes down to compliance of how how likely is it for the person to follow their prescription and see the benefit overall than get to a point where they do one 10 milligram shot and then the rest of the week they just can't be asked to do in the other six.
02:14:42.479 --> 02:14:59.199
So, you know, and and and this is where sometimes in clinical trials, giving a drug every single day might not be warranted based on the half-life of the drug, but they designed a dosing protocol to meet patient compliance.
02:14:59.439 --> 02:15:09.199
Same way, like with AIs, eczemasthane has a terminal half-life of about uh, if if we want to really push it out, about four days.
02:15:09.520 --> 02:15:16.399
But imagine telling someone I want you to take a quarter of an eczemistane on a Monday and a quarter on a Thursday.
02:15:16.800 --> 02:15:25.119
It's very difficult for that person to sort of remember the exactness of like a Monday and a Thursday or every four days.
02:15:25.359 --> 02:15:28.640
So certain drugs are designed that you just take it every day.
02:15:28.720 --> 02:15:36.720
So the doctor knows, okay, the person's more likely to take that dose at the same time every single day when it's an oral tablet.
02:15:36.960 --> 02:15:42.960
An injection is a little bit more invasive, so quite often they just default to what's the most likely thing.
02:15:43.199 --> 02:15:46.800
Once per week person's more likely to keep up with the treatment.
02:15:47.039 --> 02:15:48.159
Same with GLPs.
02:15:48.479 --> 02:15:49.199
Yeah, exactly.
02:15:49.439 --> 02:15:52.000
That's that's how they were designed, once a week injections.
02:15:52.319 --> 02:15:53.439
Once per week injection.
02:15:53.600 --> 02:16:03.359
Now the oral-based GLPs, you know, um like semiglutide and oral leaf prone, you have to swallow that every single day.
02:16:03.600 --> 02:16:24.640
And even then, when when we sort of view what's the compliance of someone taking an oral capsule versus a single injection once per week, you probably will remember to do an injection once per week if you like mark it in your phone as a reminder, or you know that every Monday or Sunday you do the injection, versus taking a tablet every day as well as compliance issues as well.
02:16:24.960 --> 02:16:29.680
So it always comes down to what's what's the person most likely to adhere to.
02:16:29.920 --> 02:16:40.479
And that's why I don't think you're ever gonna see clinics voy for like the most stable dosing strategy that might be everyday injections, it's what's that person gonna follow.
02:16:40.879 --> 02:16:42.079
Gotcha, yeah, yeah.
02:16:42.239 --> 02:16:43.040
That makes sense.
02:16:43.360 --> 02:16:45.040
Very aligned with the medical community.
02:16:45.200 --> 02:17:02.639
Um, as far as uh the GLPs go, since you mentioned them, um the strzeptide, for example, have less of like an importance when it comes to maintaining just a single weak injection than something like retotrutide.
02:17:02.799 --> 02:17:14.239
Because I was under the impression that retitrutide, the reason why doing something like uh microdoses or like multiple weekly injections is how much that affects the effect of glucagon.
02:17:14.959 --> 02:17:23.440
Um so I I spoke about this before when there's the whole argument about once per week versus micro-daily injections.
02:17:23.520 --> 02:17:28.319
And to be honest, when you look at a half-life of the drug, you end up at the same position.
02:17:28.559 --> 02:17:42.799
Same way as like if you do one injection of tests in ante per week, uh at like say 70 milligrams versus 10 milligrams daily, you end up at the same stable plasma level after five or six weeks.
02:17:43.120 --> 02:17:59.520
But in terms of the side effects that might come from it, a bigger dose of 70 milligrams of testosterone is going to create a much higher peak, which could then cause more aromatization the next day, 24 hours after the peak is reached.
02:18:00.079 --> 02:18:19.760
And similarly, with a GLP, you take a massive bolus dose of 2.5 milligrams, say, of perzeptide, you are flooding the body in terms of the GLP receptor agonism, which is where the appetite suppression comes from because it's an adverse side effect.
02:18:20.079 --> 02:18:27.280
So you think about that the appetite suppression with a GLP1 isn't actually the effect you're taking the drug initially designed for.
02:18:27.760 --> 02:18:31.200
It's a genetic medications, they're insulin secretagogs.
02:18:31.600 --> 02:18:31.840
Yeah.
02:18:31.920 --> 02:18:35.280
So you're you're taking it for now is the side effect.
02:18:35.520 --> 02:18:37.360
And it's very easy.
02:18:37.440 --> 02:18:39.040
So people go with the clinical dose, right?
02:18:39.120 --> 02:18:43.200
They four milligrams redidrotide once per week, eight milligrams, twelve milligrams.
02:18:43.440 --> 02:18:59.280
What they should then also read is the side effects in these clinical trials nausea, motion sickness, car sickness, uh, gastrointestinal upset, diarrhea, vomiting, all the shit you don't want.
02:18:59.520 --> 02:19:02.000
You want this for appetite suppression.
02:19:02.319 --> 02:19:17.440
So during biobross years ago, when lyroglutide, dyloglutide, semaglutide came to the market, we discussed like, hey, instead of doing this one injection of two milligrams semaglutide, one milligram semaglutide once per week, why do we do half a milligram three times a week?
02:19:17.760 --> 02:19:19.200
Just like lyroglutide.
02:19:19.280 --> 02:19:20.159
That's every single day.
02:19:20.319 --> 02:19:28.319
Nobody has appetite issues or or nausea issues on lyroglutide, because it's a 0.6 to 1.2 milligrams daily injection.
02:19:28.399 --> 02:19:31.760
And you can skip it on Sunday and still eat, still enjoy your food.
02:19:31.920 --> 02:19:37.840
And this is the reasons why you know educators like us say, okay, you want the benefits, right?
02:19:38.000 --> 02:19:43.840
You want maybe insulin secretion, you want fat loss, you want appetite suppression, but you want none of the side effects.
02:19:44.079 --> 02:19:46.719
Um dose it a little bit more often.
02:19:46.959 --> 02:19:53.600
And for some people that's twice a week, some people that's every other day, sometimes that's three times a week or every single day, right?
02:19:53.680 --> 02:19:55.760
Depending on the drug and their tolerance.
02:19:56.000 --> 02:20:05.920
Um, and some people get away with once a week, and especially with the reditry type, because it seems that that drug was specifically designed to build up a tolerance real fast.
02:20:06.319 --> 02:20:10.079
So uh terzepid, most people top out at three milligrams a week.
02:20:10.239 --> 02:20:16.479
Reditite, you start with three, then you got a four, you got a five, you got a seven, you got a ten, twelve, sixteen.
02:20:17.600 --> 02:20:27.840
Yeah, a lot of people end up at the maximum dose of reditry type because it's not a very good appetite-suppressant drug, but it's great to help with fat loss to do the glucocorticoid or the glucagon receptor agonism.
02:20:28.079 --> 02:20:32.559
Um, so this is the only one that really people really need to ramp up the dose with.
02:20:32.799 --> 02:20:45.840
Um yeah, and and then after they ramp up the dose at 10, 12 milligrams, the side effects are no longer there, and they need to go to one once per week administration to continue to blunt their appetite.
02:20:45.920 --> 02:20:47.360
That's a fault of the drug.
02:20:48.319 --> 02:20:50.399
You you build up a tolerance real fast.
02:20:50.559 --> 02:20:52.879
So I'm on 10 milligrams REDA right now.
02:20:52.959 --> 02:20:56.079
If I switch to truse, I'd probably use less.
02:20:56.879 --> 02:21:02.239
The GLP1 receptor internalizes as well, like the insulin receptor.
02:21:02.479 --> 02:21:12.000
Um and also like like what I was talking about, when when you do a once per week injection of, say, 2.5 milligrams trusepidide.
02:21:12.639 --> 02:21:19.360
The clinical trials were done in metabolically obese people, people who weren't a bodybuilder.
02:21:19.520 --> 02:21:28.559
A bodybuilder should have good insulin sensitivity, low body fat, you know, all hallmarks of what aren't present in the clinical trial population.
02:21:29.040 --> 02:21:43.680
So if this drug's main mechanism is to potentiate natural insulin secretion, 2.5 milligrams could be a huge dose for that person that creates negative adverse side effects.
02:21:43.760 --> 02:21:47.440
They'll get massive appetite suppression, but they're going to feel very, very sick.
02:21:47.600 --> 02:21:52.399
And actually, they probably won't even want to tolerate the site of food or drink.
02:21:53.040 --> 02:21:59.520
If we then suggest, okay, well, we know that the drug's half-life is about seven days.
02:21:59.760 --> 02:22:26.319
If we went one milligram like Monday, one milligram Thursday, or whatever way you want to split up, 1.25, 1.25, it's a smaller dose, so it's a lower receptor activation threshold, but it's still probably enough receptor activation to see the appetite suppression effects without the adverse events of like intestinal paralysis, the thyroid dysfunction, etc.
02:22:26.639 --> 02:22:38.000
So when people are arguing like three milligrams of retitrutide versus one milligram three times per week or every other day, or whatever we wanted to do, both camps were correct.
02:22:38.079 --> 02:22:47.360
But it's sort of like the clinical data is in obese people once per week, which again is a patient compliance perspective.
02:22:47.520 --> 02:22:59.760
Like part of trisepatide and retitrutide is this big linkage spacer on the molecule, which is designed to allow the drug to stay in circulation for seven to ten days.
02:23:00.079 --> 02:23:10.159
So if you're if you're someone who's not a bodybuilder, you might default into one click of a pen into your stomach on a Sunday morning and forget about it.
02:23:10.879 --> 02:23:37.040
But for a bodybuilder who has good insulin sensitivity, good uh fat oxidation and fat utilization, that might be way too much to cause adverse side effects that they can split it out across the week, still see the receptor activation, still see the total uh CMAX or the serum dose across the week, but without the spillover into very you know global side effects.
02:23:37.120 --> 02:23:46.319
So they might just have blunted appetite aside from you know constipation or nausea or vomiting, you know, all those negative things that you don't want.
02:23:46.799 --> 02:23:56.719
And and keep in mind that people in the clinical trials that are obese, they have this much blubber to get through, which slows absorption.
02:23:56.879 --> 02:24:07.680
Whereas if you're single-digit percent body fat and you use this as an appetite suppression, we notice with insulin the leaner you get, the shorter the onset of the insulin is going to be.
02:24:07.760 --> 02:24:08.959
It's going to act faster.
02:24:09.120 --> 02:24:18.000
People might go hypo from two I use insulin sub Q at 6% body fat versus not noticing anything at 12% body fat.
02:24:18.239 --> 02:24:21.200
So these people in the clinical trials, they're morbidly obese.
02:24:21.280 --> 02:24:24.319
They're 25%, 30%, 50% body fat.
02:24:25.200 --> 02:24:31.280
13 millimeter insulin syringe is just breaking the surface before it gets into systemic circulation.
02:24:31.440 --> 02:24:40.959
Whereas a guy like you, me, Dean, everybody here in this panel, where 13 millimeter insulin syringe is almost in systemic circulation because we're lean.
02:24:41.040 --> 02:24:43.520
So it disperses right away, it goes into the bloodstream.
02:24:43.760 --> 02:24:53.760
So why would you do four milligrams in that scenario versus four milligrams where it needs to radiate through all this fat before it gets into your might take a day or two anyway.
02:24:54.479 --> 02:24:56.959
So you might need a bolus injection just to get it in.
02:24:58.239 --> 02:25:00.319
So that's that's that's a big difference, right?
02:25:00.879 --> 02:25:04.639
I think I'm sure Dean and Niall, you've heard it many times before.
02:25:04.799 --> 02:25:11.600
You recommend this these drugs to people that are a little bit fat, and then after two weeks, yeah, I don't really get appetite suppression.
02:25:14.399 --> 02:25:16.639
You're so fat it takes forever to get into your blood.
02:25:17.520 --> 02:25:18.399
No, seriously.
02:25:19.840 --> 02:25:25.680
Because at the same dose, when they're finally 15% body fat, they get great appetite suppression from the first two injections.
02:25:27.360 --> 02:25:31.840
So there's there is a difference, man, and they're metabolically fucked, and it takes forever.
02:25:32.159 --> 02:25:37.600
Like they probably don't move a lot, so they don't get the circulation of the drug throughout their body.
02:25:37.920 --> 02:25:41.920
So again, clinical trials, scientific evidence, it's fun.
02:25:42.959 --> 02:25:45.920
But you have to look at the sample size, the subjects.
02:25:47.040 --> 02:25:53.520
Are they fat, sedentary, lazy people that can do daily injections?
02:25:53.680 --> 02:25:56.319
Do you identify as that sample size?
02:25:56.479 --> 02:25:56.879
I don't.
02:25:57.200 --> 02:26:01.280
I'm lean, I'm physically active, uh, I can do daily injections.
02:26:01.360 --> 02:26:09.040
So I'd rather go with the more frequent injections so I can manage the dose and get less side effects and all the benefit.
02:26:09.680 --> 02:26:20.479
You've also got, you know, rather true, Tide, you've got that inverse, we've talked about it before, this inverse effect in bodybuilders that you don't see in the clinical trial data.
02:26:20.719 --> 02:26:36.719
And whilst it is potentially anecdotal, we've talked before where you actually see a metabolic increase or a shift in metabolism where the appetite suppression is being blunted because of the glucagon peptide creating appetite.
02:26:37.120 --> 02:26:47.440
So part of you doesn't necessarily want to eat, but the other side of you is going hypoglycemic, that you have to eat to offset the metabolic effect.
02:26:47.600 --> 02:27:07.520
And sometimes as you get closer to a competition and you're utilizing redotrutide as your main GLP, it could be working against you if you're using it to control appetite, specifically that you might be better off switching to the earlier generations if it's just more appetite suppression and fat burning and like that.
02:27:07.680 --> 02:27:14.239
Yeah, and especially with mitochondrial compounds that require more carbohydrates for them to function correctly.
02:27:14.399 --> 02:27:17.760
Um you can't physically eat what you need to.
02:27:18.399 --> 02:27:21.840
Um, and then you literally burn yourself up from the inside out.
02:27:22.399 --> 02:27:30.959
You guys can be totally honest with me, but um uh what do you think about this experiment that I did uh for my minicut for this last eight weeks while I was off cycle?
02:27:31.120 --> 02:27:38.559
I did uh a milligram of Reddit on Thursday and a milligram of Red U or a milligram of terzepatite on Monday, just purely as an experiment.
02:27:38.879 --> 02:27:44.559
Come on, so one one one weekly dose but of each, and that way I had a little bit more of uh the appetite suppressant.
02:27:45.040 --> 02:28:02.879
So when you look at the receptor activation, right, um comparatively, I think redotrecite is reasonably weak on the GLP one and the GIP, and then more on the glucagon because the other ones don't activate the glucagon receptor besides masdutite and servidutite.
02:28:02.959 --> 02:28:05.760
I think they're glucagon and GLP1 or GIP.
02:28:06.159 --> 02:28:06.879
I can't remember.
02:28:06.959 --> 02:28:08.319
I would like to do this right.
02:28:08.879 --> 02:28:17.200
But so since the reditructide is spread out, you get less comparative GLP1 and GIP receptor activation.
02:28:17.440 --> 02:28:35.520
And if you need more appetite suppression on top of that, it does make sense to combine it with either terzepidite or semiglutide, because GLP1 is predominantly appetite suppression, and then terzepidite you get appetite suppression and axial fat mobilization through the GIP1 or the GIP receptor.
02:28:35.760 --> 02:28:38.000
So combining both makes sense.
02:28:39.120 --> 02:28:53.600
What you could also do is take a red rotide for long-term appetite suppression and fat liberation through GIP and glucagon receptor agonism, and then take intranasal exenatite as needed when you feel like cheating on your diet.
02:28:54.159 --> 02:28:55.680
So those are now also available.
02:28:55.760 --> 02:29:06.799
You just take a nasal spray of 100 micrograms exenatite, you block the GIP receptors in the brain and some peripheral tissue, and the appetite is gone for the next six hours.
02:29:07.200 --> 02:29:14.959
Just like people work megadose melanotine too to make themselves nauseous, which we should mention also erases somatic return.
02:29:15.840 --> 02:29:22.719
Aren't the efficacies of GLPs through the nasal spray though just not very efficient because of the like try it.
02:29:23.280 --> 02:29:23.600
Try it?
02:29:23.760 --> 02:29:23.920
Okay.
02:29:24.799 --> 02:29:27.360
It that shit works acutely.
02:29:27.440 --> 02:29:28.159
It's insane.
02:29:28.959 --> 02:29:29.120
Okay.
02:29:32.239 --> 02:29:32.399
Yeah.
02:29:32.639 --> 02:29:34.479
Just like everything else that goes up the nose.
02:29:36.799 --> 02:29:36.959
No.
02:29:37.920 --> 02:29:38.399
Yeah, you would you would know?
02:29:38.719 --> 02:29:39.280
Oxy toast.
02:29:39.680 --> 02:29:42.159
Not the one.
02:29:42.639 --> 02:29:42.719
Yeah.
02:29:43.280 --> 02:29:44.159
Oxy toasted, yeah.
02:29:44.239 --> 02:29:44.879
Oxytoted.
02:29:45.040 --> 02:29:45.680
That one, yeah, yeah.
02:29:46.079 --> 02:29:47.680
That's not more than a bottle, you know.
02:29:47.760 --> 02:29:49.600
Don't take that at the festivals.
02:29:50.319 --> 02:29:52.559
Tanner and I are still trying to bring you to a rive.
02:29:52.799 --> 02:29:54.559
Uh yeah, I'm I'm game, man.
02:29:55.040 --> 02:29:55.760
I'm game.
02:29:56.479 --> 02:29:57.920
I won't be walking much.
02:30:02.079 --> 02:30:08.479
Frankie Connolly asks best hair loss stack while running DHT derivatives and most hair safe steroids aside from the Android-only cycles.
02:30:08.799 --> 02:30:09.120
Dean.
02:30:09.280 --> 02:30:09.680
Thanks, guys.
02:30:09.840 --> 02:30:10.959
I'm suing this one out.
02:30:12.159 --> 02:30:12.879
What's up?
02:30:13.200 --> 02:30:13.840
Sorry.
02:30:14.159 --> 02:30:21.920
Uh best hair loss stack while running DHT derivatives and most hair hair safe steroids aside from the Android only cycles.
02:30:22.239 --> 02:30:37.920
Oh I don't think well there might be if we're like looking at how can we offset the most hair safe, the most obvious, then is just doing tests with an asteroid, and then you've got nothing to worry about.
02:30:38.239 --> 02:30:47.680
I think to be honest, there just like before with like these sort of safer cycles or safer use, whatever.
02:30:48.000 --> 02:31:01.600
I don't think personally there's any like hair-safe that if you have the genetics and there's underlying issues towards oxidative stress, and it's gonna cause the hair follicle to miniaturize and die.
02:31:02.719 --> 02:31:15.840
Maybe after you've had a hair transplant, there might be more hair-safe cycles, but you're still gonna see maybe oxidative stress at the hair follicle that could cause your hair to fall out as well, anyway.
02:31:16.319 --> 02:31:27.520
Um I I think this whole argument of like this cycle, yeah, you can take phenasteroid, no problem, and that offsets local DHT production.
02:31:28.719 --> 02:31:39.360
But the root cause mechanisms of hair loss, and every time I talk about this, people just go off in a big long tangent about I took phenasteride and my hair has been fine.
02:31:39.520 --> 02:31:50.000
Well, that's great, but there's other things that play into hair loss like uh electrodiol, too high or too low, generally too low, and you restrict blood flow to the scalp.
02:31:50.319 --> 02:31:56.559
Thyroid, too much thyroid hormone, hypertyroidism, your hair starts falling out.
02:31:56.799 --> 02:32:10.639
You have uh oxidative stress or DNA damage, whether it's from the sun or whatever, locally on the skin, whatever way you want to view it, bacteria, acne, flicklitis, all these things can play into hair loss.
02:32:10.719 --> 02:32:15.040
That's not just blocking DHD will save your hair.
02:32:15.200 --> 02:32:19.440
So I think it'll be factor, or there's also a link there with hair loss.
02:32:19.840 --> 02:32:20.479
Oh, really?
02:32:20.959 --> 02:32:23.120
Like increases in BDN DNF?
02:32:23.360 --> 02:32:26.639
Yeah, B DNF increases can also cause hair loss.
02:32:27.360 --> 02:32:29.760
So is that where all the smartest people are bold?
02:32:30.000 --> 02:32:30.239
Yeah.
02:32:31.280 --> 02:32:32.000
Allegedly.
02:32:35.360 --> 02:32:38.639
So I think you know, still, I just pretend to be bold.
02:32:38.879 --> 02:32:40.799
So I can pretend to be smart.
02:32:42.000 --> 02:32:55.280
I I you know I think could could you could you do like uh like this is sort of aware, like could you take a massive uh like steroid cycle and keep your hair?
02:32:56.559 --> 02:32:58.799
I personally I don't think so.
02:32:58.959 --> 02:33:11.040
You can do some strategies with monoxyl, finasteride, and all that, but there's other strategies then like the low estrogen, the hypertyardism, the nutrient deficiencies, um oxidative stress, DNA damage, blah blah blah.
02:33:11.120 --> 02:33:26.879
Whatever you go down that rabbit hole, that just focusing on blocking DHT and using monoxil to improve uh blood flow delivery will probably keep some of your hair, but I don't think over time you're gonna keep your full density.
02:33:26.959 --> 02:33:34.239
You're still gonna see shedding occur as time goes on and miniaturization, just not to the same extent as if you'd done nothing.
02:33:34.639 --> 02:34:15.680
Um and that's sort of where then if the genetics are there for androgenic alopecia or receding hairline, once that recession has been offset with I guess androgen resistant follicles from the back of your head, then theory shouldn't have any local DHT uh inflammatory response, then you might be Able to get away with a cycle, but you still have to then consider that there's still hair on your scalp, the back of your crown, the top of your head, that is going to be susceptible to low estrogen or thyroid hormone.
02:34:15.760 --> 02:34:20.239
So you're still even with a hair transplant, you can still have your hair fall out.
02:34:20.319 --> 02:34:26.000
The hair that's been transplanted, you might be left with tufts on the sides that are still there, but the rest of your hair falls out.
02:34:26.239 --> 02:34:42.479
And that's why, and you're probably told the same yourself with the procedure, that after the procedure, you're using phenastroid aminoxidil to protect the existing hair than protect the transplanted hair.
02:34:42.719 --> 02:34:55.680
That they tell you that if you don't protect the existing hair, you'll need another transplant to fill in the gaps of the hair that's falling out from the androgen-resistant hairline.
02:34:56.159 --> 02:35:21.040
So it's I I I really I just yeah, finasteroid, monoxyl, and all these sort of strategies, maybe, you know, if you sort of follow the lines of what me and Steve have talked about, that like 20 milligrams of trend per week with TRT, small bit of anivar with phenasteroid, maybe, but you still have oxidative stress to think about.
02:35:21.120 --> 02:35:24.239
You still have you still have all like the low estradiol.
02:35:24.639 --> 02:35:33.360
Is 20 milligrams of trend on top of TRT going to generate massive changes in muscle protein synthesis genomically or everything else?
02:35:33.680 --> 02:35:35.280
I don't really see it, to be honest.
02:35:35.760 --> 02:35:40.559
So if you have a little bit of muscle and a little bit of hair, you're better in the dating marketing.
02:35:41.040 --> 02:35:41.520
Well, that's the same.
02:35:43.280 --> 02:35:49.520
So as long as you're getting laid from the little extra muscle that you have and the higher that you preserve, I think it's okay.
02:35:49.760 --> 02:35:57.120
Um I I think one thing that people need to realize is that hair-safe cycles are not brain safe.
02:35:59.040 --> 02:36:01.440
Nandrolon only is not good for your brain.
02:36:02.319 --> 02:36:08.799
Testing phenasterite through the reduction of allopregnenolone, I don't think it's good for your brain.
02:36:10.159 --> 02:36:12.959
And it depends on how much phenesterite you're taking.
02:36:13.520 --> 02:36:19.200
Some people hammer one milligram per day, and their allopregninol levels are in the in the in the tank.
02:36:19.520 --> 02:36:25.200
So you can preserve your hair, but your libido and your brain health is gonna go along with it.
02:36:25.520 --> 02:36:27.040
So you're gonna have to sacrifice something.
02:36:27.360 --> 02:36:28.959
Essentially, you know.
02:36:29.840 --> 02:36:33.840
And that's sort of like I don't sort of sacrifice my hair, honestly.
02:36:34.239 --> 02:36:41.520
Yeah, I think with like finasterid, again, it comes down to like what we talked about with patient compliance.
02:36:41.680 --> 02:36:48.559
If you look at a half-life of finasterid, it could in theory, like, okay, it's a an eight to ten hour half-life.
02:36:48.879 --> 02:36:55.440
You could in theory dose that maybe once every three or four days rather than every single day.
02:36:55.600 --> 02:37:06.879
And again, you think about telling someone I want you to take X dose of finasterid on Monday, and then don't take the next dose until Friday, and then don't take the next dose until the following Wednesday.
02:37:07.120 --> 02:37:16.079
Eventually the person's like, oh shit, I fucking forgot how how I'm supposed to take the drug rather than tell them, okay, here's one milligram every day.
02:37:16.479 --> 02:37:19.200
Take it when you wake up in the morning, forget about it.
02:37:19.600 --> 02:37:26.000
So there is probably better ways, like even with topical phenasteroids, topical monoxidal.
02:37:26.399 --> 02:37:29.040
Do you have to apply it every day or twice per day?
02:37:29.280 --> 02:37:32.159
Could you get away with every second or third day?
02:37:32.639 --> 02:37:37.600
You have to think about again the the compliance and the the how the drug is working.
02:37:37.840 --> 02:38:23.680
Um and that's sort of again where perhaps when people get post-phenasteroid syndrome or those effects of their brain, you've you've followed a standard prescription of like half a milligram or one milligram every day for five or six weeks, and all of a sudden your libido is shot, your mitochondrial's efficiency, or the the inner workings of the inner mitochondrial membrane or the electron transport chain has changed from NADPH and everything we've call talked about, like biochemistry-wise, changing because of that that drug's effect on DHD, and then NADPH depletion has an effect onto aromatase, and now you're not making enough estrogen, and now you've got dopamine to serotonin balance.
02:38:24.239 --> 02:38:24.639
Yeah.
02:38:24.959 --> 02:38:27.760
You know, it's it's a cascade of misery.
02:38:28.000 --> 02:38:32.399
You know, it's it it's guys want everything, you know.
02:38:32.799 --> 02:38:58.159
Yeah, you want to have your hairline, you have big muscles and whatever else, but the strategies of having to play into each thing, uh, that that's sort of where, like, for me anyway, uh with with the transplant, planning that in for when I was finished, retired, said and done, stepping away, you then know, okay, there's nothing that's gonna interfere with the hair afterwards.
02:38:58.479 --> 02:39:06.799
Whereas, you know, doing the transplant and then having to worry about okay, is this transplant gonna stick because I'm doing X, Y, and Z strategies?
02:39:06.959 --> 02:39:09.680
The the transplanted hair, no doubt, will stick.
02:39:10.000 --> 02:39:15.120
But the other hair, the existing hairline on top of it, the crown especially, starts to thin.
02:39:16.079 --> 02:39:29.520
And then you're you're going into territories with crown transplants which are 50-50 hit or miss, depending on uh the technique of the direct hair implantation, not killing the existing follicle.
02:39:29.680 --> 02:39:35.120
So now you've lost the donor follicle and you've lost the the local natural follicle itself.
02:39:35.680 --> 02:39:45.760
And then that could leave even more bald that you're then your your transplant attempt just resolves ru uh well, results in you shaving your head.
02:39:46.559 --> 02:39:48.799
Which again is not the end of the world.
02:39:49.440 --> 02:39:51.200
Yeah, I still got a move.
02:39:51.920 --> 02:39:58.319
I I I I said it before that the shaved head, I I enjoyed the shaved head.
02:39:58.479 --> 02:40:02.159
There's so much so little maintenance to shaved head.
02:40:02.479 --> 02:40:02.879
Yeah.
02:40:03.040 --> 02:40:05.680
Yeah, when it rains, you can really fiddle on your scalp.
02:40:05.760 --> 02:40:07.360
It's great, it's a good sensation.
02:40:08.079 --> 02:40:08.879
Yeah, thankful.
02:40:10.239 --> 02:40:11.600
Guys, I gotta bounce.
02:40:11.760 --> 02:40:12.799
It's getting late.
02:40:12.959 --> 02:40:13.440
All right.
02:40:13.760 --> 02:40:14.879
Thanks for coming on, bro.
02:40:14.959 --> 02:40:15.360
Thank you guys.
02:40:15.680 --> 02:40:15.840
Of course.
02:40:16.159 --> 02:40:16.559
Any time?
02:40:17.440 --> 02:40:19.920
Well, I will do a new podcast when I'm in Vegas.
02:40:21.840 --> 02:40:22.799
Yeah, yeah.
02:40:23.040 --> 02:40:34.719
Maybe someday in the in the far future, if you guys were all would all be uh down to come on again, because there's there's so much that we didn't get to talk about, plus I feel bad that we didn't get to the type 99 of the 100 Q ⁇ A's.
02:40:35.040 --> 02:40:35.200
Yeah.
02:40:35.600 --> 02:40:36.159
Sorry, guys.
02:40:36.479 --> 02:40:37.200
I'm so sorry.
02:40:37.520 --> 02:40:38.479
No worries, no worries.
02:40:38.719 --> 02:40:39.680
I'll see you soon.
02:40:39.760 --> 02:40:40.479
Take it easy.
02:40:40.719 --> 02:40:40.959
Yeah.
02:40:41.040 --> 02:40:41.600
Thanks, guys.
02:40:41.840 --> 02:40:42.399
See you later.
02:40:42.639 --> 02:40:42.879
Bye.
02:40:43.920 --> 02:40:44.479
Love you guys.
02:40:44.879 --> 02:40:48.879
Um man, there was so much that I wanted to talk about.
02:40:49.040 --> 02:40:52.799
Uh I wanted to go over the sweet spot for PEDs.
02:40:53.200 --> 02:41:03.280
Um, I wanted to go over their new perception of GH dosing protocols and timing, um, if that has changed a little bit over the course of the last year to two years or so.
02:41:03.840 --> 02:41:08.959
Uh I also wanted to go over a little bit more on full body optimization and disease prevention.
02:41:09.280 --> 02:41:19.760
Um especially since, as you guys know, uh with these guys' knowledge, there's uh a lot of potential things that could happen, but luckily that's based off of your genetics.
02:41:19.840 --> 02:41:23.360
So um luckily it's not gonna happen to everybody.
02:41:23.600 --> 02:41:30.319
Most of it isn't gonna happen to everybody, but um I want to thank you guys for inputting your Q ⁇ A's.
02:41:30.799 --> 02:41:42.799
I will do my best to get them all on the podcast again so that way we can attack the Q ⁇ A's and we can attack a little bit more of the uh the more applicable content that I wanted to attack and just want to thank you guys for coming on the podcast again.
02:41:42.879 --> 02:41:52.239
So um only way I make a living is uh APR health solutions and optimize HP, the HRT clinic I'm with, and just the clinical thing on the lane huge.
02:41:52.479 --> 02:41:56.319
So it's code Nile for all of that, and um that's the reason I continue to do this podcast.
02:41:57.040 --> 02:42:02.879
So um if you guys ever need anything, I am uh always checking my DM requests.
02:42:03.280 --> 02:42:10.000
Uh if you have any questions for any reason or you're just curious or just need a talk, uh just shoot me a DM on Instagram, Nile Niger.
02:42:10.319 --> 02:42:13.920
Sometimes I check the transparent podcast page, but normally I forget.
02:42:14.000 --> 02:42:17.040
Um I normally I always check the Nile Niger page.
02:42:17.120 --> 02:42:18.479
So that's about it.
02:42:20.719 --> 02:42:21.040
Peace guys.