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It is not passive. It is a driver for your business goals. It is a
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driver for success. It is a driver for equity and
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belonging. It is a driver for revenue. Human beings need to stand
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for something, and design is something
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that, although we are often passionate about the
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practice of design, articulating the meaning of design
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has always been something that has been critical to me and to my
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career. Welcome to the Thrive
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and Design Podcast, the show for interior product brands
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ready to turn insight into action. I'm your host,
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Nicole Lashae Hall, founder of Thrive and Design. Each
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week we explore how manufacturers, marketers, and
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sales leaders can align strategy, storytelling, and systems
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to drive real specification growth. This podcast is about
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moving beyond scattered marketing, outdated sales tactics,
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and visibility for visibility's sake, and into clarity
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alignment, and momentum. Whether you're navigating change,
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scaling thoughtfully, or rethinking how your brand shows up in the
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design industry, you're in the right place.
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Welcome back to another episode of the Thriving Design
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Podcast. I'm your host, Nicole Lashae Hall, CEO and founder of Thriving
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Design, where we help interior product companies expand their influence and
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revenue through human-centered design, strategy, and leadership. I'm
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honored to welcome an extraordinary leader, Cheryl Durst,
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Executive Vice President and CEO of the International
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Interior Design Association, also known as
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IIDA. A visionary strategist, an exceptional
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communicator, Cheryl has spent her career expanding the
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role of interior design, advocating for its value not just
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as an aesthetic discipline, but as a critical driver
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of business equity and societal impact. Under
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Cheryl's leadership, IIDA supports more than 15,000
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members across 58 countries, advancing
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global conversations around design excellence,
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advocacy, education, and community. Widely
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recognized as an ambassador for innovation and expansion, Cheryl
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made history as the first African American woman inducted into the
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Interior Design Hall of Fame, receiving its inaugural
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leadership award Award in 2016. She
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also serves as the International Well Building Institute
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Governance Council and as a trustee for
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Chicago's Museum of Contemporary Art and the New
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York School of Interior Design. In today's episode, we move
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beyond buzzwords to explore what it truly means to
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expand the role of design from leadership and advocacy
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to measurable business impact. We'll dive into Cheryl's
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perspective on the future of the industry, the intangible skills
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designers need to thrive, and how thoughtful design can shape
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healthier, more equitable environments. This is a conversation
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every design leader should hear. So let's dive in. Welcome to the show,
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Sheryl. It's a pleasure to have you here. Hi, Nicole. That was,
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that's always interesting hearing about yourself before you're, before you're
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jumping into a conversation. So thank you for that. Yes, absolutely.
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So Cheryl, let's frame this conversation and share a little
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bit about you, a little bit more about you. I know we just
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read your introduction, but you spent decades
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advocating for the value of design.
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Tell me a little bit more about your journey and why do you think design
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is still often reduced to the aesthetics instead of
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recognized as a strategic business and human-centered
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discipline? Let me hit this from a couple of touchpoints. I,
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I came to my role as the CEO of
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IADA. I've worked in this industry for over 30
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years, started my career in design in Washington,
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D.C. I worked for the Washington Design Center, which was a
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component of the Merchandise Mart, but in Washington, D.C., I
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headed up education and programming for designers there.
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Prior to that, I was a high school teacher. I am not a designer. My
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background is in journalism and economics. I'm a I'm a writer at heart,
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but I've always been a believer in education
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and optimism and advocacy. Human beings need to
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stand for something, and design is something
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that, although we are often passionate about the
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practice of design, articulating the meaning of design
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has always been something that, that has been critical to me and
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to my career. How do we talk about design and what does it mean?
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Most people who aren't designers kind of default to
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aesthetics And there's absolutely nothing wrong with aesthetics and beauty, but
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design is so much more than that. And so
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helping, helping human beings understand, and then ultimately
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from a business standpoint, the C-suite, people who are
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consuming design services, helping them understand that
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design is a driver, right? It is not a path. It is not passive.
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It is a driver for your business goals. It is a driver for success.
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It is a driver for equity and belonging. It is
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a driver for revenue. And so having those conversations
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around the impact of design and not just on the bottom
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line, but its impact on humanity has always been intrinsic
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to my career. And so obviously it ultimately, ultimately led me
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to— I started with IIDA as the director of education, became
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CEO after about 3 years at the association. And so those
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pillars of optimism and advocacy
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and just the narrative around design have always been central to
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the work that I've done. I love that. And I'm wondering if— did you ever
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have this aha moment about design
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and I guess its impact on the world, especially coming from
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education, right? You were a high school teacher and you
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transitioned into this industry. So what was your aha moment of,
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oh, like, this is the impact that design is
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having on the world? You cannot
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separate the impact that place
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has on people, right? I remember as a child
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hearing my mom, who was a scientist, a microbiologist,
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would talk— geography is destiny. And she was talking about that from
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a health context. She specialized in infectious diseases,
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and she was talking about it from a health context. I always thought about
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it as we are informed by the places that we
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inhabit, and whether that is from an
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ancestral context or particularly from a learning standpoint,
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—my father was an educator. And so when I taught
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in D.C., I had a freshman homeroom, and
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I had a class of 40 students, but
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I had 32 desks. And so I
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remember a group of students walking into that classroom, and
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immediately, what does that tell you? What did that tell them when
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there wasn't a place for them to sit? What does that immediately
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make you feel like? And so that was a grounding moment for me. But
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even as a child growing up, I spent a lot of time a lot of
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time with my grandparents, and I remember what it felt like to be in their
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home. I remember the first time my grandmother took me to a library
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and what that space felt like. I took art classes as a
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child and that sense of awe and wonder and curiosity that
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I had walking into a museum. And so this really
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soul-deep connection between people and place has always
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been something that has interested me, intrigued me, and
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also inspired me. Yeah. And I love the memories tied to, to
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place too. When I was in design school, we had to do this project, like
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what was our third place, right? Outside of home,
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outside of school. What was that third place that we have so many memories
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tied to and designing based on that inspiration? So
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that's what your story reminds me of. Yeah. Yeah. It's, yeah,
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place storytelling is fascinating. And I think everybody
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has a story about that first place. You talked about third places, but
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what's that first place that we remember as a child
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or that first place that had impact on us. And it's
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anywhere from familial to, to cultural, but nostalgia,
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super powerful. And the power of memories to impact us
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is incredible. And it's often tied to place. Yeah, I love that.
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And so with design and in your role at IIDA
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now, like you're touching a lot of the world
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really. Yeah. In so many places, so many types
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of design. Types of design, so many
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stakeholders in the design process, right? Yeah.
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Yeah. So with design serving so many different
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stakeholders, far too many to list and name in the time
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that we have, right? From end users to business leaders to
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manufacturers, where do you see the biggest disconnect in how we talk about
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design's value across that ecosystem?
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Oh, I love this question. It's a complex one
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because I was educated as
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journalist. Words matter. And I often think
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that the lexicon and vocabulary that we often
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have in design further
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allows design to be mystified. And
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thinking about what people respond to, but thinking about how
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often designers need to translate
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language for clients or customers. And I think about
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the connection between, particularly in commercial design,
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between designers and the C-suite. And very often
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you are communicating with someone who has business
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objectives in mind and they haven't considered design
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as a business objective. And so using our words in
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our vocabulary to make sure that C-suite or
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business owners are understanding the
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outcomes of design, right? Because people have to get beyond
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kind of that immediate surface level. And so again, that's often
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the conversation stops at beauty, stops at aesthetics.
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There's often been the belief that design is a luxury as
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opposed to necessity. And so when we start using words
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like impact and bottom line and return on investment,
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I'm not talking about diminishing the
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power of beauty. We don't ever want to do that. So I think
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that designers need to be part-time linguists as well
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as we are talking about the deep impact of design,
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but also realizing design needs to be paid for. It needs to be
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championed and it needs to be paid for. And some those best champions
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around design and change, right? Because that's
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another powerful word that we can use when you're talking to a business
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owner about change and the built environment. And so thinking
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about those very simple words that all point to the
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impact that design has, not necessarily the
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cost of design, right? Because the minute people start thinking about beauty and
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aesthetics, that takes you to luxury and that takes you to expensive.
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Yeah. And we need to think about the impact to support
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human beings and and also to support change in an
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organization and change within people. Yeah. And it's really interesting that
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you break it down like that, especially for me as someone who went to
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interior design school, you actually don't learn the ling— the
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linguistics behind what you just said. Out of design school
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is okay, you are in foundations and you're learning the foundation of
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fine art. And then you start your design core
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curriculum and you're learning, I guess, like programming and problem
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solving, depending on what vertical you're focusing on for that class.
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And ultimately creating the designs. But a lot of what you just said is
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not taught in design school in terms of understanding the ROI,
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understanding the impact of your design and how you are
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articulating that to different stakeholders in the
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design process, especially the ones that are paying the money,
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right? Yeah. Yeah. How, how have you seen
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that important language learned or
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adopted in our industry? So I think about healthcare
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design in particular. And when you hear
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healthcare designers talking about evidence-based design,
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that immediately speaks to hospital
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administrators, that immediately speaks to folks who are
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dealing with risk and liability and risk management or reducing
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liability as well as patient care. So I think
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that terminology— and I'm not talking about sugarcoating and making up
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words, but design is research-based. It
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is rigorous, right? There is order and
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rigor and import to the work that design
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does on behalf of humanity. And so
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it's aggregating those words and that terminology
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to better build a case for design because unfortunately
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we continually need to build a case for our
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profession and build a case for the work that we do as
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designers. And it doesn't mean being on necessarily
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being offensive, but it is— we are as viable
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as any other profession. I think sometimes though,
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it— what makes it difficult for people to 100%
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wrap their heads around design is it is not only are
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we touching the physical human being, there's a part of it that's
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the soul. It's really hard to qualify and
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quantify the impact that we have on the soul of human
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beings to create change. And so I keep coming back. I probably, if
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you could turn this into a drinking game, how many times I use the word
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impact, but thinking about how we articulate impact.
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And so metrics would be one way. Absolutely. Metrics and
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analytics would be another. I think case studies are
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so valuable for designers to show that evidence
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of what we do and how that can change an organization or
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change what an organization is doing. And then
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belonging is another part of that conversation. I think what has helped
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us, at least in the last certainly since the pandemic,
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is the emphasis on well-being, physical well-being,
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emotional well-being, spaces that are safe
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for human beings to thrive in, not just live in, but thrive
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in. I think the conversation around emotional well-being
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has tremendously helped the profession of interior design, supported
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the profession of interior design. Yeah. And with all of those different
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topics and words One of the things that we talked about in our
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initial conversation was a common language or a
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shared language for the— shared language. Yeah. Yeah. Whether that's
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wellness, inclusion, belonging, strategy,
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ROI, or impact even. I guess, how
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would you like to see all of our stakeholders sharing
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a common language when it comes to creating an understanding about the
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design process? So I think it's also this, this
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idea, design is a multiplicity of things, right? And specifically
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we are of talking about interior design. It's an art, it's a
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science, and it's a business. And I think there is
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already a pretty clear understanding around
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the artfulness of interiors. I think
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there is less understanding around the science
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of interior design. And so that was talking about data,
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talking about metrics, but making that data human, letting that data
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tell a story. And then I think where we sometimes
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lose people or people who aren't quite closing that gap is around
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interior design as a business. And so that means
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interior designers need to be really proficient in
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this talking of this three-legged stool and talking about
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interiors design specifically, and interior specifically as
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an art, a science, and a business. Yeah. And helping,
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helping their clients understand that. For me,
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design is about what happens on the receiving end. And so
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how do we start talking about the language of
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outcomes? How are we using the language of outcomes
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to explain what we do and the value of what we do. Yeah,
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I want to see like more business classes and interior design programs
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to get that language. Definitely starting to see this
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trend in more designers from a
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postgraduate standpoint pursuing master's. So an MBA,
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starting to see more designers go down that path. It
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is fairly difficult to double major in interior design and
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business from an undergraduate standpoint because the undergraduate graduate
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curriculum for designers, there's so much depth and breadth, there often isn't
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room for undergraduate interior designer to even breathe, let alone thinking
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about double majoring. But definitely seeing more
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interior design students minoring in business, but also
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minoring in psychology, sociology. And
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so those, what once upon a time I think people called those softer sciences,
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but those sciences arrayed around human behavior, because that's
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the other piece of this, right? Design isn't about things.
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Design is about people. Interior design is about people and how they
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are interacting and behaving and living and thriving in an
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interior environment. And so having that understanding of human
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behavior is just so intrinsic. I— my
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gut tells me, and this is starting to happen, I know this conversation is
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happening from a curriculum standpoint, that interior design
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really does merit a 5-year program. It does.
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It does for all of those topics that you just mentioned.
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And so with the industry evolving, we see a lot of different like
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factors impacting the industry. We've gone through a
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pandemic, right? And people are looking towards the future
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as well. So not only thinking about this like shared language that
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we're talking about, but what does the future look like? With
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IIDA, you all have a Certified Design
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Futurist program that I stumbled across a few times
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and I'm like, good. I'm like, what is this all about?
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Yeah. Yeah. It signals a shift towards foresight as a design
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capability. If you've seen cycles come and go, you know what
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matters isn't trends, it's what lasts. SpecReady is
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a readiness framework that helps interior product brands create
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clarity, alignment, and systems that don't rely on constant
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00:18:53,380
pushing or reinvention. It gives teams a shared language and
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00:18:56,800
structure structure so the brand continues to show up clearly and
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00:19:00,440
competitively, even as leadership evolves. And
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for perspective on how AI fits into the industry's future
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without the noise, the AI in Design Summit offers
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00:19:10,800
thoughtful, practical insight grounded in real business
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realities. Learn more at specready.co and
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00:19:16,400
tidsummit.com.
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00:19:25,120
So how do you define foresight in practice and what
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changes when firms begin offering it as a service?
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We really are looking at our certified design futurist
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curriculum about expanding a
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competency for interior designers. And you and I have heard these
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conversations about other professions picking
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away at design. We certainly see design
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thinking as a term that is used, bandied about,
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people will say, hire me, I'm a design thinker, whatever that might
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mean. But we certainly know that there are consultants out
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there who are using design or leveraging design
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strategy, maybe without having a professional background in design. And
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then we see— we are seeing end users and clients hiring
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design strategists as opposed to professional interior designers.
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And thinking about this in terms of a professional interior design organization,
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it was all about what can we do to expand the current
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competencies of interior designers and looking the future. And
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foresight is something that designers use all the time, whether
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they realize it or not. When you are creating the built
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environment, when you're creating an interior environment, you're not just doing it for
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the now of that client, you're doing it for their next. And so there's
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always been this rigorous thought about what's
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next for your clients, even though the client may not be deeply invested in it.
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And so strategic foresight is a very
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structured, systematic discipline that
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is used to explore and anticipate
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for multiple futures for a brand or for an
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organization. And so it's not about foretelling, it's
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not about, it's not a crystal ball, it's not about being
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predictive, but you're analyzing a disparate
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set of signals and possible disruptions
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to your future that allows you to be proactive in decision-making.
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It's very processed and organized. There's a process, there's a
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methodology. Which design in and of itself has a process and a
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methodology. But it was something for IIDA that it just made sense
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that it was a skill set that we could further enhance and develop
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for designers. And we have this 10-week course that is an
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introduction to strategic foresight. Yeah, there are firms
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out there because an engagement with a
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designer or a design firm may not necessarily end
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in a built environment. It may end up in a new way of
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thinking for an organization or a new set of tools
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tools or resources to do something different to drive your future.
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And so looking at the consulting side of design or a
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consultancy, it could evolve into a change in the built environment.
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But firms who are using this with their clients are finding
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that they are keeping those clients longer. They're involved in
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deeper, more strategic organizations from the top of the organization.
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And so it's helping firms build longer-term
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relationships with their clients and then opening doors to new
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sets of clients and new industries. Industries as well. Yeah. So as a follow-up
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of that, because I've had a few other guests that have talked about a
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similar word of like forecasting, right?
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So in terms of like trend forecasting and understanding that,
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but what you all are doing in terms of like foresight
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and for design futurists is completely different. So can
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you break down what's the difference between design— a
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design futurist and a design forecaster? So
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forecasting— and both are valuable, right? Forecasting is valuable
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forecasts are valuable and foresight is valuable. Forecasting tends to be a bit
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more specific, right? So it's often short-term. And so
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like you mentioned, right, a color forecast, right? They're
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really based on current data and trends.
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Foresight is more long-term. You're looking at
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a diverse set of uncertainties and you're looking at
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scenarios that might be unpredictable. And so
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instead of being a very specific silo, foresight
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takes you down a longer path to look at a series of
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scenarios. And again, I said earlier, disparate set of
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conditions that you're putting together. I'll use a really
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super colloquial term, but you're looking, you're connecting dots
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to come out with a series of scenarios that can help
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drive a future or drive your actions. And it just allows
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the person on the receiving end to be a bit more
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proactive. You can't just let the future happen to you.
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Foresight gives you more control over a preferred
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preferred future for yourself or your organization. Yeah. And then how
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does that apply to, say, a manufacturer, right? We talked
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about what that looks like for maybe a designer or a design firm.
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A lot of my listeners are product manufacturers, so if they're listening,
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they're like, okay, how does this apply to us as an organization?
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Tell us more about that. So what a manufacturer could do
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is look at a set of conditions, right? Look at a set—
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you can look at the birth rates are currently going down.
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So if I am a manufacturer of anything that's education-based
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or K-12-based, and we're seeing trends in—
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trends in education are moving in a different direction, and birth rates are going
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down, and we're not looking at a massive baby boom headed our
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way, I am going to think differently about what classroom needs
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might be in the next 5 to 10 years. I will
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think differently about product based on what
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classroom needs might be. There's going to be an educator
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00:25:08,120
shortage in the next 5 years, you start combining, you start
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00:25:11,600
declining, combining declining birth rates with an
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educator shortage. What's that mean for the classroom of
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the future? Will classrooms look different? Will they be housed
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differently? Will the curriculum look differently? And
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so taking a look at different aspects within a cohort
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is what strategic foresight would do. So you're combining
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demographics, you're combining changes in a
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profession, you're combining human attitudes around
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around education. We're seeing some of, we're seeing some of that aspect now
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where higher ed, for a number of reasons, isn't in the same
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favor that it may have been 10 or 20 years ago. But also
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we're seeing a boom in junior colleges where people over the age
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of 50 are going back to school, back to 2-year programs
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for upskilling or reskilling. And so I might, as a
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manufacturer, start looking differently, maybe at a cohort I had
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never paid attention to with junior colleges or how training is happening in
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00:26:10,480
different aspects, as opposed to the verticals that I might be
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embedded in deeply now. I think that
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strategic foresight can be particularly helpful for
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manufacturers in looking at directions that
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we're seeing culturally and socially. I'll use
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00:26:29,000
education as an example, looking at trends
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00:26:32,800
that may seem very disparate, something along the
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00:26:36,360
lines of birth rates. If we know that birth rates are going
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00:26:40,050
down, that's going to affect what enrollment
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in school is going to look like in the next 12 to 18 to
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26 years. But we also look at this trend that more
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of us are returning to 2-year programs, for instance, in junior
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colleges, and to be retrained and reskilled, right? We
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00:26:57,890
all need to be upskilled in some way, shape, or form. And there has been
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00:27:01,650
a tremendous explosion in junior colleges. Also, just this
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whole idea around what a 4-year degree
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is worth, that's also contributing, right, to this explosion in junior
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00:27:12,870
colleges. And so So what forecasting allows, or strategic
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foresight allows us to do is look at
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a series of what may seem like disparate dots. We're looking at
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00:27:23,550
birth rates, we're looking at education rates, we're looking at
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00:27:27,150
maybe downturns in people even becoming teachers.
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You're combining all of these, again, what feels
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unrelated facts to look at one solid
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picture of what a future might look like. And that's just one scenario.
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Yeah. But it's this ability to look at a multiplicity of scenarios,
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to look at what a future could be. Yeah, I love that you
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broke it down like that, especially on the manufacturer side. I
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know as I've worked in sales on the manufacturer side, and a lot of
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times I'm always thinking about, okay, what does this design need today? Or— and
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00:28:00,810
that today could look like the next 12 months, but thinking about it
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in the future in the way that you just broke it down of, okay, how
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is this shifting in so many different points?
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How can you design not only for today, but think about the evolution of this,
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of the people in that space and how they're going to be interacting or,
457
00:28:17,470 -->
00:28:21,270
or coming to the school or not coming to the school, etc., impacts
458
00:28:21,270 -->
00:28:24,350
the design of the future. So I love that. I need to sign up for
459
00:28:24,350 -->
00:28:28,190
this course. My brain is already going in so many different ways.
460
00:28:28,350 -->
00:28:31,790
And it's not just one thing, right? It's not just data,
461
00:28:32,270 -->
00:28:35,550
it's culture and it's attitudes and it's
462
00:28:35,550 -->
00:28:39,150
behavior. And foresight really gives you a
463
00:28:40,090 -->
00:28:43,730
tool to look at all of these arenas across, across the
464
00:28:43,730 -->
00:28:47,570
board to show that how you can best leverage what you
465
00:28:47,570 -->
00:28:51,090
know now and what scenarios you can put
466
00:28:51,090 -->
00:28:54,850
together for a future to understand that for your business or for
467
00:28:54,850 -->
00:28:58,610
your brand. I love that. And I know, Sheryl, you all just had
468
00:28:58,610 -->
00:29:02,330
your roundtable in January. Before we
469
00:29:02,330 -->
00:29:05,930
go into the last few questions, I would love to, for you to share any
470
00:29:06,170 -->
00:29:09,610
top insights that came out of that, especially for
471
00:29:09,690 -->
00:29:13,470
manufacturers and designers. So we did our— this
472
00:29:13,470 -->
00:29:17,270
is our industry roundtable and we have been doing this for almost
473
00:29:17,270 -->
00:29:20,830
30 years. It is an evergreen IIDA signature
474
00:29:20,830 -->
00:29:24,550
program that we do at headquarters. And the whole premise is we put
475
00:29:24,550 -->
00:29:28,190
manufacturers and designers in a room together in a very kind of
476
00:29:28,190 -->
00:29:31,830
intimate think tank format. And it's to hold forth
477
00:29:31,830 -->
00:29:35,510
on issues that are germane to both designers
478
00:29:35,510 -->
00:29:38,950
and to manufacturers. And so that's really the premise of
479
00:29:38,950 -->
00:29:42,590
IIDA is really this better connection between designers and product
480
00:29:42,590 -->
00:29:46,130
manufacturers, right? Because we are invested in the same industry.
481
00:29:46,450 -->
00:29:49,730
And so this year our topic was demographics and
482
00:29:49,810 -->
00:29:53,490
identity. And so we talked a lot about, again,
483
00:29:53,490 -->
00:29:57,170
this was a lot about attitudes and behaviors, but we had a woman from
484
00:29:57,250 -->
00:30:00,530
Miami of Ohio and she is, she
485
00:30:00,530 -->
00:30:04,250
specializes in demographics and age and
486
00:30:04,250 -->
00:30:07,410
she's written a book called Gentelligence, but it's
487
00:30:07,410 -->
00:30:10,690
leveraging, leveraging a diversity of
488
00:30:10,690 -->
00:30:14,290
ages and how we are best performing with a
489
00:30:14,290 -->
00:30:17,630
multiplicity of Millennials and Gen Xs and
490
00:30:17,630 -->
00:30:21,270
Boomers, right? Because we know the workplace is now filled with
491
00:30:21,270 -->
00:30:24,430
5, almost 6 generations in the workplace.
492
00:30:24,750 -->
00:30:28,310
And as opposed to giving attributes to a
493
00:30:28,310 -->
00:30:32,150
generation like an astrological sign, right? Yeah, I'm a Sagittarius and
494
00:30:32,150 -->
00:30:35,710
a Boomer, right? Uncoupling that. What is it that
495
00:30:35,710 -->
00:30:39,550
each generation brings to work that we can leverage
496
00:30:39,550 -->
00:30:43,190
the value, but also just understanding, again, it's back to attitudes and
497
00:30:43,190 -->
00:30:46,780
behavior. Your understanding what the motivations are,
498
00:30:46,780 -->
00:30:50,620
what inspires certain generations, right? Because we are all different.
499
00:30:50,620 -->
00:30:54,340
We certainly have, based on when we were born and where we
500
00:30:54,340 -->
00:30:58,140
were born and how we grew up, we've been shaped by
501
00:30:58,380 -->
00:31:01,620
so many. And that obviously implies to the
502
00:31:01,620 -->
00:31:04,780
interior environment as well. And so it was a very
503
00:31:04,860 -->
00:31:08,620
lively conversation. And we also had the people
504
00:31:08,700 -->
00:31:12,180
in the room that we were talking about. And I've always been a firm believer,
505
00:31:12,180 -->
00:31:14,900
it's— we're going to sit there and talk about Gen X, then let's have Gen
506
00:31:14,900 -->
00:31:17,880
X in Absolutely. To share that insight as well,
507
00:31:18,280 -->
00:31:22,080
understanding that we are, we are all on the receiving end, but we
508
00:31:22,080 -->
00:31:25,320
also have Gen X and Gen Y designers who are creating
509
00:31:25,640 -->
00:31:29,440
as well. They think about product differently. They think about interiors
510
00:31:29,440 -->
00:31:33,200
differently. They think about the client relationship differently. And
511
00:31:33,200 -->
00:31:36,960
so we had that conversation from the inside out and thinking about all the
512
00:31:36,960 -->
00:31:40,720
ways that generations impact us. And when Dr. Megan Gerhardt
513
00:31:40,720 -->
00:31:44,400
was our specialist and we also had Upali Nanda, who's the head of
514
00:31:44,400 -->
00:31:48,060
research for HKS. But one of the things Dr. Gerhardt Earhart said
515
00:31:48,060 -->
00:31:51,700
that was really impactful for a lot of people, I think, is take a look
516
00:31:51,700 -->
00:31:54,940
around you and look at how many generations you
517
00:31:54,940 -->
00:31:58,700
surround yourselves by. And so she talked about if you're
518
00:31:58,700 -->
00:32:02,260
over 40, chances are, with the exception of your family,
519
00:32:02,740 -->
00:32:06,580
everybody that you hang around with is about the same age.
520
00:32:06,740 -->
00:32:09,900
And so one of the things she talked about is we need to break out
521
00:32:09,900 -->
00:32:13,300
of our age cohorts and making sure that we have a
522
00:32:13,300 -->
00:32:16,650
multi-generational life. Yeah, that's important.
523
00:32:16,970 -->
00:32:20,810
It's important. And I came out of college in 2012 and I
524
00:32:20,810 -->
00:32:24,610
feel like at that point there were so many articles in the
525
00:32:24,610 -->
00:32:28,410
media talking badly about millennials. Everything was
526
00:32:28,410 -->
00:32:32,170
just like stigmas about millennials are this and millennials are that.
527
00:32:32,410 -->
00:32:36,250
And I'm sure Gen Z feels the same right now. So it's really
528
00:32:36,250 -->
00:32:40,090
wonderful when I see topics that are like, okay, let's talk about
529
00:32:40,490 -->
00:32:43,900
multi-generational experiences. Is having each
530
00:32:43,900 -->
00:32:46,980
generation in the room and actually learning from one another.
531
00:32:48,340 -->
00:32:51,740
I'm a person who is mid-30s, a
532
00:32:51,740 -->
00:32:55,420
millennial, but like I have friends that are almost 60. I have friends
533
00:32:55,420 -->
00:32:58,780
that are just straight out of college because I want to learn from the
534
00:32:58,780 -->
00:33:02,620
wiser and also share what I have with younger,
535
00:33:02,620 -->
00:33:06,460
but also people who are 20-something will probably teach me something that
536
00:33:06,460 -->
00:33:10,100
I don't know. Well, it's— I love that you said that. And
537
00:33:10,100 -->
00:33:13,940
it's also that myth-busting because we talked a bit about mentoring
538
00:33:14,320 -->
00:33:17,760
and Everybody thinks that mentors have gray hair,
539
00:33:18,320 -->
00:33:22,080
but mentoring can happen in so many— across.
540
00:33:22,800 -->
00:33:26,640
And that's what we have to remember. And it's that cross-generational, multi-generational
541
00:33:28,240 -->
00:33:31,760
aspect. And so many of us don't live in multi-generational households
542
00:33:31,760 -->
00:33:35,440
anymore. That ability to talk to people in
543
00:33:35,440 -->
00:33:38,840
any age cohort, it just makes you a
544
00:33:38,840 -->
00:33:42,320
broader-minded person. And so living
545
00:33:42,400 -->
00:33:44,760
intergenerationally is— and multi-generational—
546
00:33:46,620 -->
00:33:50,380
is becoming very much a mantra for me. Yeah, absolutely. I love
547
00:33:50,380 -->
00:33:53,980
that. And I look forward to hearing all the insights that continue
548
00:33:54,060 -->
00:33:57,580
to come out of that roundtable and the roundtables to come.
549
00:33:57,740 -->
00:34:01,500
Yep. I'll be excited. We have 28 insights from Industry Roundtable
550
00:34:01,500 -->
00:34:05,020
28 that I'll be able to share with you soon. Okay. I can't
551
00:34:05,020 -->
00:34:08,780
wait. And so, Cheryl, we've talked a lot today
552
00:34:08,860 -->
00:34:12,540
about lots of different topics from the future of design
553
00:34:12,860 -->
00:34:16,660
to the language and shared language. But one of the things
554
00:34:16,660 -->
00:34:20,440
that I don't want miss talking about, especially
555
00:34:20,440 -->
00:34:24,040
as far as the future of the design, is Black and brown
556
00:34:24,360 -->
00:34:28,040
students that are coming up in this industry. I am one of
557
00:34:28,040 -->
00:34:31,680
very few women of color that came out of my interior design
558
00:34:31,680 -->
00:34:35,480
program at Syracuse, but you all are doing some
559
00:34:35,480 -->
00:34:38,680
great work with your Design Your World program at
560
00:34:38,680 -->
00:34:42,440
IIDA. And this is a very critical moment because you're reaching back
561
00:34:42,680 -->
00:34:46,200
to high school students before they even get into design school.
562
00:34:46,350 -->
00:34:49,990
School. So tell me a little bit more about that program and the work that
563
00:34:49,990 -->
00:34:53,710
you all are doing to shape the future of design, especially when it
564
00:34:53,710 -->
00:34:57,470
comes to Black and brown students in our industry. Yep.
565
00:34:57,470 -->
00:35:01,230
Design Your World for us started in 2020. And
566
00:35:01,230 -->
00:35:04,790
so it was a dream of a program that I had for many
567
00:35:04,790 -->
00:35:08,390
years. It came to fruition, unfortunately, at the same time as the
568
00:35:08,390 -->
00:35:11,670
pandemic. So our very first cohort, which we were in
569
00:35:11,670 -->
00:35:14,980
Chicago where IIDA is headquartered, We did it virtually.
570
00:35:15,540 -->
00:35:18,940
And but the objective of the program is to
571
00:35:18,940 -->
00:35:22,740
introduce interior design as a viable career
572
00:35:22,980 -->
00:35:25,860
for folks who are under-championed, under-resourced,
573
00:35:27,700 -->
00:35:31,420
whatever the word is. But and that
574
00:35:31,420 -->
00:35:35,260
doesn't necessarily mean that all of our students are Black and brown,
575
00:35:35,260 -->
00:35:38,500
or it doesn't necessarily mean that this is pointed at Black and brown students.
576
00:35:38,740 -->
00:35:42,340
However, we are well aware of just the
577
00:35:42,340 -->
00:35:45,990
disparity around Black and brown professionals
578
00:35:45,990 -->
00:35:49,590
in our industry. And so it was our goal
579
00:35:49,590 -->
00:35:52,910
to create this program to introduce interior design
580
00:35:53,150 -->
00:35:56,510
as, as a career. It's— it is a viable career
581
00:35:56,750 -->
00:36:00,510
pursuit where you can make a living, you can be happy and healthy.
582
00:36:00,510 -->
00:36:03,990
And we very deliberately called it Design Your World because we
583
00:36:03,990 -->
00:36:07,830
wanted our students to look around at their world to
584
00:36:07,830 -->
00:36:11,390
see how design could make an impact on their world. And so we are
585
00:36:11,390 -->
00:36:14,980
in Chicago, St. Louis, Miami,
586
00:36:15,370 -->
00:36:19,130
and Dallas. And so program is alive and well
587
00:36:19,130 -->
00:36:22,570
and it's been going on now. We're moving into our 6th year.
588
00:36:22,890 -->
00:36:25,530
We now have over a dozen of our
589
00:36:26,170 -->
00:36:29,930
alumni who are in undergraduate programs in
590
00:36:29,930 -->
00:36:33,770
design and architecture. We're playing the long game with
591
00:36:33,770 -->
00:36:37,450
this. And so slowly but surely, we are seeing our
592
00:36:37,450 -->
00:36:40,810
students come through school and then enter into
593
00:36:40,810 -->
00:36:44,650
careers in design. We have support from a phenomenal number
594
00:36:44,810 -->
00:36:48,310
of partners like OFA, West in Mannington
595
00:36:48,630 -->
00:36:52,110
on the manufacturing side, and then firms like Jacobs and
596
00:36:52,110 -->
00:36:55,830
Gensler and Perkins and Will are supporting us. And it's,
597
00:36:55,830 -->
00:36:59,430
it, it's incredible to see students
598
00:37:00,390 -->
00:37:04,070
have this access to interior design
599
00:37:04,070 -->
00:37:07,590
as a career. And it is important for us to give these students
600
00:37:07,670 -->
00:37:11,230
tools because even if they never decide to major in interior design and
601
00:37:11,230 -->
00:37:14,330
architecture, they— or architecture, they still have had this
602
00:37:14,330 -->
00:37:18,010
introduction to this profession. But
603
00:37:18,010 -->
00:37:21,770
learning about how to assess and
604
00:37:21,850 -->
00:37:25,610
think and critically think like a designer is
605
00:37:25,610 -->
00:37:29,210
important to this program. And keeping these students connected
606
00:37:29,529 -->
00:37:33,290
to one another so that they see one another and so that they see
607
00:37:33,290 -->
00:37:37,010
Black and brown professionals thriving and
608
00:37:37,010 -->
00:37:40,690
succeeding. And then also giving them the tools to talk about design. The
609
00:37:40,690 -->
00:37:44,170
very first people that many of— we're learning from many of these students
610
00:37:44,330 -->
00:37:48,070
is when they tell a parent or a guardian, I am interested in
611
00:37:48,070 -->
00:37:50,630
design as a career, they're told, nope,
612
00:37:51,910 -->
00:37:55,630
that's not what, that's not what we do. Yeah, absolutely. And then if
613
00:37:55,630 -->
00:37:59,350
anybody's listening and they're like, I love the mission, I want to support,
614
00:37:59,590 -->
00:38:03,350
I want to help the students, how can they be involved?
615
00:38:04,310 -->
00:38:07,990
Go to iida.org, to our website, or Google
616
00:38:07,990 -->
00:38:11,790
Design Your World. We are always looking for support. We're
617
00:38:11,790 -->
00:38:15,550
looking for volunteers to help us. We've got a really great
618
00:38:15,550 -->
00:38:19,330
curriculum. We always want more manufacturers to help sponsor.
619
00:38:19,410 -->
00:38:22,850
And the way that we can move this program to additional cities
620
00:38:22,930 -->
00:38:26,690
aside from the 4 that we are in is through sponsor and manufacturer
621
00:38:26,690 -->
00:38:30,210
support. Awesome. Sheryl, it has been a pleasure
622
00:38:30,690 -->
00:38:34,370
having you on the show and sharing a little bit about your personal journey
623
00:38:34,610 -->
00:38:37,970
and aha moments, um, like memories from your childhood,
624
00:38:38,450 -->
00:38:42,130
memories from being a teacher and how that really impacted how
625
00:38:42,130 -->
00:38:45,890
you saw the world of design all the way till now and
626
00:38:45,890 -->
00:38:49,550
how you are shaping different areas of the design industry,
627
00:38:49,790 -->
00:38:53,590
from the design futurism to the program for
628
00:38:53,590 -->
00:38:57,310
the students. I'm just here for all of it. And I can't wait
629
00:38:57,310 -->
00:39:00,990
to continue connecting and also be a supporter. Oh,
630
00:39:00,990 -->
00:39:04,710
Cheryl, if anyone wants to connect with IIDA, be a member, or
631
00:39:04,710 -->
00:39:07,550
even connect with you, where can they find you all online?
632
00:39:08,110 -->
00:39:11,950
www.iida.org. You can reach
633
00:39:11,950 -->
00:39:15,800
out to me personally via LinkedIn or Instagram. Instagram. All
634
00:39:15,800 -->
00:39:19,040
right, Cheryl, thank you so much for being a part of the show. It's been
635
00:39:19,040 -->
00:39:22,800
a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you so much, Nicole. This
636
00:39:22,800 -->
00:39:26,120
was great. It went by too quickly. If today's episode
637
00:39:26,120 -->
00:39:29,960
sparked ideas, the next step is giving those ideas
638
00:39:30,040 -->
00:39:33,560
structure. Spec Ready is Thriving Design's strategic
639
00:39:33,560 -->
00:39:37,080
framework designed to help interior product brands show up
640
00:39:37,080 -->
00:39:40,530
clearly, align marketing and sales, and become easy
641
00:39:40,530 -->
00:39:43,760
easier to specify without adding more noise or
642
00:39:43,760 -->
00:39:47,040
complexity. You can learn more at specready.co.
643
00:39:47,360 -->
00:39:51,160
And if you'd like to continue the conversation, be sure to follow the
644
00:39:51,160 -->
00:39:54,720
podcast and check out the show notes for links, resources, and
645
00:39:54,720 -->
00:39:58,520
ways to get in touch with our team. Thanks for listening to the Thriving Design
646
00:39:58,520 -->
00:40:00,240
Podcast. I'll see you next time.
