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Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to the Problem with Living Podcast.
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The podcast where I deep dive into the lives and psyches of historical figures so that you don't have to.
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I'm your host, Katie Reimer.
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Pull up a chair, grab a drink, and settle in.
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The show is about to begin.
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Send us a message.
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We love to hear what you're interested in.
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Please note that all opinions and perspectives in this podcast are my own and do not reflect the values or opinions of any affiliates.
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All research herein has been conducted by me and all thoughts on today's subject matter are products of my own wonderings.
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Please note that while I do have a master's degree in clinical psychology and am a licensed therapist, none of what will be discussed today is meant as medical advice and should not be taken as such.
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Live oak swaying in the lazy Louisiana breeze, the muddy Mississippi chugging along, and cicadas chirping in the warm, humid air.
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New Orleans at this time was a quickly growing port city with an unfortunately robust slave trade market.
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If you needed to purchase another human being for some demeaning job that you wouldn't be caught dead doing yourself, then New Orleans was the place to be.
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The American Civil War would not begin for another 60 odd years, and the port of New Orleans saw more human trafficking than any other market in the US of A.
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Business was booming.
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One in three citizens in New Orleans was enslaved.
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But life is complex.
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And in the midst of all this, in direct contrast, New Orleans also boasted one of the largest populations of free people of color in the country.
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And into this rich ethnic mix and complex and layered social structure, a baby girl was born.
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Marie Catherine Laveau came wailing into the world on september tenth, eighteen oh one, born to Marguerite Darcantrell, a free, albeit unwed, woman of color.
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Now, in the nineteenth century, if a child was born out of wedlock, usually the father was not identified on the birth certificate.
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There's been some speculation regarding Marguerite's illicit lover over the years, and much of this confusion comes from the existence of multiple men with the same name.
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Charles Laveau was apparently a very popular name in nineteenth century Louisiana.
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Marie's mother was not born Marguerite Darkentral.
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No, she was born Marguerite San Mar Henry in 1773 to an enslaved woman, Catherine Henry.
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Catherine likely borrowed the name Henry from her own slave master, when she freed herself from slavery for six hundred dollars, which is roughly twenty thousand dollars Canadian today.
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Fifty three years after Catherine stepped off of a slave ship from Senegal, she was finally indebted to no man.
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There's no doubt that the women of Marie Laveau's family were fierce, determined, and made of something formidable.
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Marguerite was approximately twelve years old when she was freed from slavery, and there's some speculation that she may have already been with child at this time.
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She began a relationship soon after that would span most of her life with a white, high-ranking military officer, Henry Darkentrell.
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Now, being a woman in 1800 New Orleans, even a woman of color, did have some perks.
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Bear in mind, listeners, that New Orleans was owned by France at this time, not the United States.
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And because of this, women did not have to give up their legal identity and retain their personal property after marriage.
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They were entitled to half of the property that was acquired during marriage, and if they remained unmarried, could own property, businesses, and run households.
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Due to French rule, women of color in New Orleans could enter into placage relationships with white men.
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Well, not quite legal wives, their relationships were recognized as valid and legally protected.
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Marguerite had several children with Henri before her affair with Charles resulted in Little Marie.
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We don't know much of Marie's childhood, other than that she grew up on St.
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Anne Street in a cottage owned by her maternal grandmother.
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Marie was raised Catholic and spoke Creole and French.
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When Marie was just two years old, the Louisiana Purchase saw New Orleans sold to American rule.
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Slowly but surely, the rights of Louisianans of color began to disappear.
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Free people of color were no longer a distinguished class from enslaved people.
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And buying your freedom, well, that became nearly impossible under American law.
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Suddenly, couples who were seen as married under plessage lost their rights.
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Anglo American racism had come to New Orleans full stop.
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Marie was born in a time of upheaval in Louisiana, and her rights as a free woman of color were about to come to an abrupt halt.
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We now know that Marie Laveau's family experienced something that they probably didn't have words for back then.
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But today we call it intergenerational trauma.
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Intergenerational trauma involves the transmission of emotional distress from one generation to the next.
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Dear listeners, you may have experienced your own intergenerational trauma, although you may have not thought of it that way.
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Ancestors who experience a difficult life pass down ways of acting and reacting to their offspring through their parenting.
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This becomes normalized in families and continues until someone finally says enough and is able to break the cycle.
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While we don't know how this intergenerational pattern played out for Marie Laveau's family, we can certainly see that she was, most definitely, a cycle breaker.
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Most of us know Marie Laveau as the voodoo queen of New Orleans.
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In popular culture, she's portrayed in one of two ways a beautiful, mysterious, and regal creole priestess, or a frightening, haggard, wicked witch.
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I guess it depends on the day, but sometimes I can relate.
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But in all seriousness, in patriarchal societies, women are generally seen as either saint or villain, with very little in between.
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Women are often described as either the selfless, tireless, long-suffering mother, or the rebellious, venomous, tarnished tramp.
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Unfortunately, not a lot has changed in this department over the past two centuries.
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What garnered Marie these two distinctive descriptions in our modern mind is her religion and her business practices.
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Now you may be asking, dear listeners, if Marie was a devout Catholic, why did she practice voodoo?
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That is a fantastic question, I'm so glad you asked.
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To understand the specific brand of voodoo that is still used in New Orleans today, we need to go back even further into human history.
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Eye of newt, toe of frog, wool of bat, and tongue of dog.
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Sounds tasty, doesn't it?
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Well, maybe it could use a little bit of salt.
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Many of us equate voodoo with witchcraft.
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The two have become synonymous with each other in our media adult minds.
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And who doesn't love a good witch story?
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But I'm sorry to inform you, dear listener, they're not quite the same thing.
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In the seventeen hundreds, Europeans began using the term witch doctor to describe all manner of traditional beliefs, rituals, and practices they were unfamiliar with, especially those practiced on the African continent.
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By this time, the slave trade had been alive and well for several hundred years.
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Now, friends, if you can, imagine the fear that these people must have felt, kidnapped from their homes, stripped of their identity, and sold across oceans to foreign and unknown lands.
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And then, to top it all off, imagine being punished for trying to keep the only beliefs and culture that you've ever known.
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When Catherine Henry stepped off of that slave ship in the seventeen hundreds, she wasn't Catholic.
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The other twelve point five million slaves held captive by American masters?
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They weren't Catholic either.
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Maria's grandmother would have brought her own set of beliefs with her from Africa.
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Religion was an act of survival and rebellion.
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Slaves began to mix their religions and folklore with those imposed upon them by their white, heavy on their quotes here, Christian masters, and thus voodoo was born.
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Most African religions were not monotheistic, but with a little bit of creativity and a whole lot of refusal to lay down and be erased, the major gods and spirits were matched up with Christian saints.
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The Voodoo that we equate with New Orleans today was heavily influenced by Haitian Voodoo.
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In the 1700s, the island country of Haiti was a French colony.
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It received roughly one quarter of all French enslaved people.
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Most of these people were from Western and Central Africa.
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The name Voodoo comes from the Fawn word Vaudan.
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Practitioners of Vaudun believed in one main creator deity, as well as many lesser spirits.
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During the 1791 slave rebellion and revolution in Haiti, many now free slaves came to New Orleans.
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With them they brought their particular brand of new voodoo.
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The Creole inhabitants blended Haitian voodoo with root work, folk magic and healing, and the rest is history as they say.
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Some of my personal favorite voodoo deities are Papa Legba, whose Christian counterparts are Saint Peter and Lazarus, Maman Burgett, who matches up nicely with Saint Bridget and Mary Magdalene, and Simbi, who's synonymous with Saint Jude, the saint of lost causes and impossible situations, and my personal favorite.
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Marie's knowledge of Voodoo likely came from her own family's teachings, as well as Dr.
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John Bayou.
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No, that's not his real name, as well as Voodoo priestesses, Marie Salopet and Sanite Didi.
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Marie was already a very religious woman at this time.
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For many people, religion helps to deal with the unknowns of life, with the problems of living that we can't control.
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And in nineteenth century New Orleans, with the law changing and civil war looming, it probably felt like a lot was out of Marie's control.
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Studies show that people who have religious beliefs often report higher levels of life satisfaction, feel more of a sense of purpose, have a stronger sense of community, and may cope better with stress.
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For our star Marie, she knew something of stress.
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In young adulthood, Marie married Jacques Paris and bore two children, who, it is assumed, died in infancy.
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Shortly before her second child was born, Marie's husband just disappeared.
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And no, no one knows what actually happened to Jacques.
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Still to this day there are questions.
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But I'm sure, dear listener, you can let your imagination run wild as to the possibilities.
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What we do know is that Marie began to refer to herself as the widow Paris shortly after he went missing, which to me seems like a pretty definite statement.
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After Jacques vanished, Marie began her career as a humble hairdresser.
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This was one of the many ways that free women of color could make money to support their ever growing families, and ensure that their freedom and independence remained intact.
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But Marie Laveau was something more than just a stylist.
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She was a shrewd and intelligent businesswoman, adept reader of human behavior, and savvy networker.
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Any woman who's had her hair done by a professional regularly knows why they are often referred to as herapists.
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And Marie Laveau was no exception.
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Marie quickly gained the trust of her customers, who easily confided the woes to her.
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Now part of Marie's hook was using her claimed clairvoyance, aka repeating back to them what they forgot they'd already told her, to reel in these rich ladies.
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Marie quickly gained social status, fame, and trust among the upper class.
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Soon Marie had a client list a mile long.
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Marie used her skills to help politicians, judges, police, and anyone else willing to pay.
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But how did Marie become Queen of New Orleans?
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Remember, friends, by this point, the Deep South was no longer under the rule of the French.
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Because of this, there was an increase of classic American racism, which led to severe restrictions in regards to when and where people of color could practice their traditions.
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In New Orleans, voodoo practitioners were only permitted to hold their rituals on Sundays in Congo Square.
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This created a competition for real estate.
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There could only be one voodoo priestess in Congo Square.
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Legend has it that Marie spent several years using her cunning, her magic, and her sheer will and drive to survive to eliminate her competition.
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However she did it, in the end, only one queen remained.
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Marie Laveau herself.
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When you think of Voodoo, dear listeners, do you imagine a mysterious sorcerer conjuring spirits by candlelight, creating nefarious potions to inflict death and ruin, raising the dead to do her bidding?
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While this all sounds like a great screenplay for a Hollywood horror flick, actual voodoo is not really this dramatic.
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That's not to say that practitioners of voodoo don't believe in zombies, mind you.
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There are in fact documented incidents of voodoo priests administering neurotoxins to individuals and then claiming to raise them from the dead.
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But there is not evidence that Marie ever conjured the living dead into existence.
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No, most of Marie's services revolved around creating great charmed items and protection spells that aided in warding off evil.
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Much like a modern doctor or therapist, people sought Marie's help and advice for all matter of problems with living, from infertility to financial struggles to family woes and health problems.
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Marie also spent a considerable amount of time administering to the sick, taking in the poor, and giving last rights to prisoners on death row.
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Marie was also known as a fierce advocate for those who she saw as wrongly accused.
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Legend says that she sometimes used her magic to ensure certain outcomes in court.
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But this has never been fully substantiated.
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While Marie did certainly carry out voodoo rituals such as channeling the spirit of Lee Grand Zombie through a snake of the same name, most of Marie's power lay in her ability to relate to other people, to bring people together, and to provide comfort to others in their time of need.
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Now it didn't hurt that she was fairly persuasive and determined.
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Now, friends, I know you aren't just here to hear about Marie's charitable works, so let's talk about some of the gossip.
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One of the more salacious rumors about Marie says that she entrapped the spirit of her poor missing husband in her pet snake, which she would allow to lick her face during ceremonies.
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I mean, who am I to judge a girl for her kinks?
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Another rumor states that she controlled anyone who stood in her way with her voodoo magic.
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Which may not be too far fetched.
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Human beings are pretty prone to the power of suggestion.
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Now, the famous poet Schell Silverstein wrote a poem about our dear heroine, in which he suggests that Marie was quick to do away with her lovers, or anyone else who displeased her for that fact, as part of the poem goes, and then one night when the moon was black, into the swamp came handsome Jack, a no good man like you all know, and he was looking round for Marie Laveau.
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He said, Marie Lavaux, you lovely witch, why don't you give me a little charm that'll make me rich?
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Give me a million dollars, and I'll tell you what I'll do.
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This very night I'm gonna marry you.
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It'll be another man done gone.
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Now, of course there's no real backing to this, but the story has continued to circulate, probably largely due to the lack of clarity of what happened to her first husband.
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I mean, she wouldn't have been the first or last woman to do away with the old ball and chain.
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Lastly, and my favorite of the whispers, was that she was immortal.
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Upon Marie's death, her daughter of the same name, Marie Laveau II, of course, assumed her rightful place as New Orleans' next voodoo queen.
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However, some did not believe that Marie II was really, well, you know, the second.
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Rumors abound that she was indeed the original Marie.
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If this is true, then I really must know what her secret is.
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What's her skincare routine?
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How did she fight off those wrinkles?
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There's definitely a market for that product.
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Likely, the truth is much more mundane.
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Madame Laveau reportedly passed away at the age of eighty six after a long life.
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Now, eighty six was still quite a feat at the time, where most women died in childbirth, and the average life expectancy was the grand old age of forty.
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But part of me wants to believe that Marie is still out there, protecting her city and warding off those who wish her ill will.
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What we do know for sure is that there's a never ending array of folklore, superstition, and embellishment surrounding Marie and her practices.
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While it might feel whimsical to believe that Marie was conjuring the dead, sacrificing men who did her wrong, and sicking spirits upon her enemies, and Lord knows I love a good dose of whinsian vengeance.
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The truth of the matter is that Marie was simply a woman trying to survive the world in a time when life was not particularly kind to women of color, or women in general, or anyone really, outside of rich white lawmakers.
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But as usual, I digress.
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Whether she was immortal or not, Marie, like all of us, had a dark side.
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After all, people are multifaceted, and Marie was no exception.
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During her lifetime, Marie owned at least seven slaves.
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I know.
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The call is coming from inside the house, but this one.
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Now, in the standards of twenty twenty six, we might be quick to judge Marie for this seemingly ironic and bewildering behavior, but in the eighteen hundreds, unfortunately, this was commonplace.
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Keep in mind, friends, that Marie was born a free woman and was seen as being in a higher class than those of her enslaved neighbors.
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I do have to wonder, however, did this keep her up at night?
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Considering she was mere decades away from being born enslaved herself, what did her mother and grandmother think of this?
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But this, like many answers, we can only speculate on.
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Marie also made plenty of enemies through her dealings.
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According to some accounts, Marie was not always picky about who she dealt with, or what that request might be.
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Lucky for her, she didn't always have to do her own dirty work.
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Several stories of enemies being forced from the city due to threats and her fanatical followers also exist.
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I mean, the girl certainly had fans.
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And she didn't always care to know if someone was innocent in order to help them, as long as enough money exchanged hands.
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I mean, come on, she's just a girl.
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Whether the outcomes of her more shady dealings were actually due to voodoo, or whether it was because of the fear of her presence, your guess is as good as mine.
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But I would hazard that the latter is the one to wager on.
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There's no doubt Marie was revered, respected, and feared by many in New Orleans, much like she still is today in popular culture.
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Friends, we like to think of those in the past as long gone, foreign, alien.
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But I'm here to tell you that there are no unique experiences in human history.
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Yes, your feelings and your memories and your relationships are your own.
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No, this does not take away from your individual experience on this strange blue globe spinning around a dying star, hurtling through the vastness of never ending universe.
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But is there not some comfort to be had in the recognition that the problems faced by one of history's greatest voodoo priestesses, born over two hundred years ago, aren't all that different from the problems we experience in our lives today?
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Our experiences are universal.
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A common invisible thread ties us together as a species throughout the millennia, across time and generations.
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As we know, dear friends, matter is neither created nor destroyed.
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So then where does it go?
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Marie Laveau still has living descendants today in New Orleans.
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So in many ways, she's still with us.
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Her story speaks of her humanity, her will to survive during a time that was not always very survivable.
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If you'd like to pay Marie a visit, tours are available to her tomb.
00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:11.839
It's said that if you draw three exes next to each other with chalk or charcoal on her grave, she'll grant you a wish of your choice.
00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:15.039
Even in death, Marie is never too far away.
00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:19.519
That is, if we are to believe that she actually ever died.
00:21:20.559 --> 00:21:27.119
Marie is that you That will be all for today's exploration of the psyche and inner world of Marie LeVaux.
00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:31.279
Tune in next week to find out whose life we'll be dissecting and discussing.
00:21:31.759 --> 00:21:35.359
All research and show content was developed by me, Katie Reimer.
00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:38.240
All sources for this research are available in the show notes.
00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:43.200
Intro by FSM Team and ESCP, and outro by Alex Productions.
00:21:43.359 --> 00:21:45.519
Transitional Music by Justin Allen.
00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:49.920
Until next time, dear listeners, stay safe and hold on to your whimsy.
00:00:50.799 --> 00:00:54.880
Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to the Problem with Living Podcast.
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The podcast where I deep dive into the lives and psyches of historical figures so that you don't have to.
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I'm your host, Katie Reimer.
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Pull up a chair, grab a drink, and settle in.
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The show is about to begin.
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If you're interested in staying up to date on the happenings within the TPWL universe, hop on over to Facebook and follow us at the Problem with Living Podcast.
00:01:16.879 --> 00:01:19.120
Have an idea for one of our weekly topics?
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Send us a message.
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We love to hear what you're interested in.
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Please note that all opinions and perspectives in this podcast are my own and do not reflect the values or opinions of any affiliates.
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All research herein has been conducted by me and all thoughts on today's subject matter are products of my own wonderings.
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Please note that while I do have a master's degree in clinical psychology and am a licensed therapist, none of what will be discussed today is meant as medical advice and should not be taken as such.
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Live oak swaying in the lazy Louisiana breeze, the muddy Mississippi chugging along, and cicadas chirping in the warm, humid air.
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New Orleans at this time was a quickly growing port city with an unfortunately robust slave trade market.
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If you needed to purchase another human being for some demeaning job that you wouldn't be caught dead doing yourself, then New Orleans was the place to be.
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The American Civil War would not begin for another 60 odd years, and the port of New Orleans saw more human trafficking than any other market in the US of A.
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Business was booming.
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One in three citizens in New Orleans was enslaved.
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But life is complex.
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And in the midst of all this, in direct contrast, New Orleans also boasted one of the largest populations of free people of color in the country.
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And into this rich ethnic mix and complex and layered social structure, a baby girl was born.
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Marie Catherine Laveau came wailing into the world on september tenth, eighteen oh one, born to Marguerite Darcantrell, a free, albeit unwed, woman of color.
00:03:25.680 --> 00:03:32.719
Now, in the nineteenth century, if a child was born out of wedlock, usually the father was not identified on the birth certificate.
00:03:32.960 --> 00:03:42.159
There's been some speculation regarding Marguerite's illicit lover over the years, and much of this confusion comes from the existence of multiple men with the same name.
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Charles Laveau was apparently a very popular name in nineteenth century Louisiana.
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Marie's mother was not born Marguerite Darkentral.
00:03:50.560 --> 00:03:56.719
No, she was born Marguerite San Mar Henry in 1773 to an enslaved woman, Catherine Henry.
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Catherine likely borrowed the name Henry from her own slave master, when she freed herself from slavery for six hundred dollars, which is roughly twenty thousand dollars Canadian today.
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Fifty three years after Catherine stepped off of a slave ship from Senegal, she was finally indebted to no man.
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There's no doubt that the women of Marie Laveau's family were fierce, determined, and made of something formidable.
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Marguerite was approximately twelve years old when she was freed from slavery, and there's some speculation that she may have already been with child at this time.
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She began a relationship soon after that would span most of her life with a white, high-ranking military officer, Henry Darkentrell.
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Now, being a woman in 1800 New Orleans, even a woman of color, did have some perks.
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Bear in mind, listeners, that New Orleans was owned by France at this time, not the United States.
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And because of this, women did not have to give up their legal identity and retain their personal property after marriage.
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They were entitled to half of the property that was acquired during marriage, and if they remained unmarried, could own property, businesses, and run households.
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Due to French rule, women of color in New Orleans could enter into placage relationships with white men.
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Well, not quite legal wives, their relationships were recognized as valid and legally protected.
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Marguerite had several children with Henri before her affair with Charles resulted in Little Marie.
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We don't know much of Marie's childhood, other than that she grew up on St.
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Anne Street in a cottage owned by her maternal grandmother.
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Marie was raised Catholic and spoke Creole and French.
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When Marie was just two years old, the Louisiana Purchase saw New Orleans sold to American rule.
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Slowly but surely, the rights of Louisianans of color began to disappear.
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Free people of color were no longer a distinguished class from enslaved people.
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And buying your freedom, well, that became nearly impossible under American law.
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Suddenly, couples who were seen as married under plessage lost their rights.
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Anglo American racism had come to New Orleans full stop.
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Marie was born in a time of upheaval in Louisiana, and her rights as a free woman of color were about to come to an abrupt halt.
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We now know that Marie Laveau's family experienced something that they probably didn't have words for back then.
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But today we call it intergenerational trauma.
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Intergenerational trauma involves the transmission of emotional distress from one generation to the next.
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Dear listeners, you may have experienced your own intergenerational trauma, although you may have not thought of it that way.
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Ancestors who experience a difficult life pass down ways of acting and reacting to their offspring through their parenting.
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This becomes normalized in families and continues until someone finally says enough and is able to break the cycle.
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While we don't know how this intergenerational pattern played out for Marie Laveau's family, we can certainly see that she was, most definitely, a cycle breaker.
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Most of us know Marie Laveau as the voodoo queen of New Orleans.
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In popular culture, she's portrayed in one of two ways a beautiful, mysterious, and regal creole priestess, or a frightening, haggard, wicked witch.
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I guess it depends on the day, but sometimes I can relate.
00:07:27.680 --> 00:07:35.680
But in all seriousness, in patriarchal societies, women are generally seen as either saint or villain, with very little in between.
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Women are often described as either the selfless, tireless, long-suffering mother, or the rebellious, venomous, tarnished tramp.
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Unfortunately, not a lot has changed in this department over the past two centuries.
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What garnered Marie these two distinctive descriptions in our modern mind is her religion and her business practices.
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Now you may be asking, dear listeners, if Marie was a devout Catholic, why did she practice voodoo?
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That is a fantastic question, I'm so glad you asked.
00:08:05.839 --> 00:08:13.759
To understand the specific brand of voodoo that is still used in New Orleans today, we need to go back even further into human history.
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Eye of newt, toe of frog, wool of bat, and tongue of dog.
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Sounds tasty, doesn't it?
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Well, maybe it could use a little bit of salt.
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Many of us equate voodoo with witchcraft.
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The two have become synonymous with each other in our media adult minds.
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And who doesn't love a good witch story?
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But I'm sorry to inform you, dear listener, they're not quite the same thing.
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In the seventeen hundreds, Europeans began using the term witch doctor to describe all manner of traditional beliefs, rituals, and practices they were unfamiliar with, especially those practiced on the African continent.
00:09:02.080 --> 00:09:05.919
By this time, the slave trade had been alive and well for several hundred years.
00:09:06.159 --> 00:09:16.320
Now, friends, if you can, imagine the fear that these people must have felt, kidnapped from their homes, stripped of their identity, and sold across oceans to foreign and unknown lands.
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And then, to top it all off, imagine being punished for trying to keep the only beliefs and culture that you've ever known.
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When Catherine Henry stepped off of that slave ship in the seventeen hundreds, she wasn't Catholic.
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The other twelve point five million slaves held captive by American masters?
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They weren't Catholic either.
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Maria's grandmother would have brought her own set of beliefs with her from Africa.
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Religion was an act of survival and rebellion.
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Slaves began to mix their religions and folklore with those imposed upon them by their white, heavy on their quotes here, Christian masters, and thus voodoo was born.
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Most African religions were not monotheistic, but with a little bit of creativity and a whole lot of refusal to lay down and be erased, the major gods and spirits were matched up with Christian saints.
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The Voodoo that we equate with New Orleans today was heavily influenced by Haitian Voodoo.
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In the 1700s, the island country of Haiti was a French colony.
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It received roughly one quarter of all French enslaved people.
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Most of these people were from Western and Central Africa.
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The name Voodoo comes from the Fawn word Vaudan.
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Practitioners of Vaudun believed in one main creator deity, as well as many lesser spirits.
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During the 1791 slave rebellion and revolution in Haiti, many now free slaves came to New Orleans.
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With them they brought their particular brand of new voodoo.
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The Creole inhabitants blended Haitian voodoo with root work, folk magic and healing, and the rest is history as they say.
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Some of my personal favorite voodoo deities are Papa Legba, whose Christian counterparts are Saint Peter and Lazarus, Maman Burgett, who matches up nicely with Saint Bridget and Mary Magdalene, and Simbi, who's synonymous with Saint Jude, the saint of lost causes and impossible situations, and my personal favorite.
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Marie's knowledge of Voodoo likely came from her own family's teachings, as well as Dr.
00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:09.200
John Bayou.
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No, that's not his real name, as well as Voodoo priestesses, Marie Salopet and Sanite Didi.
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Marie was already a very religious woman at this time.
00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:25.120
For many people, religion helps to deal with the unknowns of life, with the problems of living that we can't control.
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And in nineteenth century New Orleans, with the law changing and civil war looming, it probably felt like a lot was out of Marie's control.
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Studies show that people who have religious beliefs often report higher levels of life satisfaction, feel more of a sense of purpose, have a stronger sense of community, and may cope better with stress.
00:11:43.440 --> 00:11:46.399
For our star Marie, she knew something of stress.
00:11:46.639 --> 00:11:53.919
In young adulthood, Marie married Jacques Paris and bore two children, who, it is assumed, died in infancy.
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Shortly before her second child was born, Marie's husband just disappeared.
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And no, no one knows what actually happened to Jacques.
00:12:02.799 --> 00:12:04.960
Still to this day there are questions.
00:12:05.279 --> 00:12:10.559
But I'm sure, dear listener, you can let your imagination run wild as to the possibilities.
00:12:10.720 --> 00:12:20.480
What we do know is that Marie began to refer to herself as the widow Paris shortly after he went missing, which to me seems like a pretty definite statement.
00:12:20.720 --> 00:12:24.480
After Jacques vanished, Marie began her career as a humble hairdresser.
00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:32.639
This was one of the many ways that free women of color could make money to support their ever growing families, and ensure that their freedom and independence remained intact.
00:12:32.879 --> 00:12:35.759
But Marie Laveau was something more than just a stylist.
00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:41.840
She was a shrewd and intelligent businesswoman, adept reader of human behavior, and savvy networker.
00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:49.039
Any woman who's had her hair done by a professional regularly knows why they are often referred to as herapists.
00:12:49.200 --> 00:12:51.840
And Marie Laveau was no exception.
00:12:52.080 --> 00:12:56.639
Marie quickly gained the trust of her customers, who easily confided the woes to her.
00:12:56.799 --> 00:13:05.759
Now part of Marie's hook was using her claimed clairvoyance, aka repeating back to them what they forgot they'd already told her, to reel in these rich ladies.
00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:10.320
Marie quickly gained social status, fame, and trust among the upper class.
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Soon Marie had a client list a mile long.
00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:18.639
Marie used her skills to help politicians, judges, police, and anyone else willing to pay.
00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:21.919
But how did Marie become Queen of New Orleans?
00:13:22.159 --> 00:13:27.600
Remember, friends, by this point, the Deep South was no longer under the rule of the French.
00:13:27.759 --> 00:13:37.360
Because of this, there was an increase of classic American racism, which led to severe restrictions in regards to when and where people of color could practice their traditions.
00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:43.600
In New Orleans, voodoo practitioners were only permitted to hold their rituals on Sundays in Congo Square.
00:13:43.759 --> 00:13:46.320
This created a competition for real estate.
00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:49.679
There could only be one voodoo priestess in Congo Square.
00:13:49.840 --> 00:13:57.120
Legend has it that Marie spent several years using her cunning, her magic, and her sheer will and drive to survive to eliminate her competition.
00:13:57.279 --> 00:14:00.799
However she did it, in the end, only one queen remained.
00:14:01.039 --> 00:14:02.639
Marie Laveau herself.
00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:26.159
When you think of Voodoo, dear listeners, do you imagine a mysterious sorcerer conjuring spirits by candlelight, creating nefarious potions to inflict death and ruin, raising the dead to do her bidding?
00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:32.080
While this all sounds like a great screenplay for a Hollywood horror flick, actual voodoo is not really this dramatic.
00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:36.320
That's not to say that practitioners of voodoo don't believe in zombies, mind you.
00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:43.840
There are in fact documented incidents of voodoo priests administering neurotoxins to individuals and then claiming to raise them from the dead.
00:14:44.080 --> 00:14:48.480
But there is not evidence that Marie ever conjured the living dead into existence.
00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:55.440
No, most of Marie's services revolved around creating great charmed items and protection spells that aided in warding off evil.
00:14:55.600 --> 00:15:05.039
Much like a modern doctor or therapist, people sought Marie's help and advice for all matter of problems with living, from infertility to financial struggles to family woes and health problems.
00:15:05.279 --> 00:15:12.399
Marie also spent a considerable amount of time administering to the sick, taking in the poor, and giving last rights to prisoners on death row.
00:15:12.559 --> 00:15:16.879
Marie was also known as a fierce advocate for those who she saw as wrongly accused.
00:15:17.120 --> 00:15:21.279
Legend says that she sometimes used her magic to ensure certain outcomes in court.
00:15:21.759 --> 00:15:24.000
But this has never been fully substantiated.
00:15:24.559 --> 00:15:38.639
While Marie did certainly carry out voodoo rituals such as channeling the spirit of Lee Grand Zombie through a snake of the same name, most of Marie's power lay in her ability to relate to other people, to bring people together, and to provide comfort to others in their time of need.
00:15:38.799 --> 00:15:42.240
Now it didn't hurt that she was fairly persuasive and determined.
00:15:43.360 --> 00:15:48.879
Now, friends, I know you aren't just here to hear about Marie's charitable works, so let's talk about some of the gossip.
00:15:49.600 --> 00:15:59.120
One of the more salacious rumors about Marie says that she entrapped the spirit of her poor missing husband in her pet snake, which she would allow to lick her face during ceremonies.
00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:02.240
I mean, who am I to judge a girl for her kinks?
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Another rumor states that she controlled anyone who stood in her way with her voodoo magic.
00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:09.120
Which may not be too far fetched.
00:16:09.360 --> 00:16:12.159
Human beings are pretty prone to the power of suggestion.
00:16:12.399 --> 00:16:32.720
Now, the famous poet Schell Silverstein wrote a poem about our dear heroine, in which he suggests that Marie was quick to do away with her lovers, or anyone else who displeased her for that fact, as part of the poem goes, and then one night when the moon was black, into the swamp came handsome Jack, a no good man like you all know, and he was looking round for Marie Laveau.
00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:37.840
He said, Marie Lavaux, you lovely witch, why don't you give me a little charm that'll make me rich?
00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:40.639
Give me a million dollars, and I'll tell you what I'll do.
00:16:40.879 --> 00:16:42.879
This very night I'm gonna marry you.
00:16:43.120 --> 00:16:45.440
It'll be another man done gone.
00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:55.600
Now, of course there's no real backing to this, but the story has continued to circulate, probably largely due to the lack of clarity of what happened to her first husband.
00:16:55.759 --> 00:17:00.240
I mean, she wouldn't have been the first or last woman to do away with the old ball and chain.
00:17:00.399 --> 00:17:04.240
Lastly, and my favorite of the whispers, was that she was immortal.
00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:12.640
Upon Marie's death, her daughter of the same name, Marie Laveau II, of course, assumed her rightful place as New Orleans' next voodoo queen.
00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:18.400
However, some did not believe that Marie II was really, well, you know, the second.
00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:21.359
Rumors abound that she was indeed the original Marie.
00:17:21.519 --> 00:17:24.160
If this is true, then I really must know what her secret is.
00:17:24.319 --> 00:17:25.680
What's her skincare routine?
00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:27.359
How did she fight off those wrinkles?
00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:29.759
There's definitely a market for that product.
00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:32.400
Likely, the truth is much more mundane.
00:17:32.559 --> 00:17:36.880
Madame Laveau reportedly passed away at the age of eighty six after a long life.
00:17:37.119 --> 00:17:45.119
Now, eighty six was still quite a feat at the time, where most women died in childbirth, and the average life expectancy was the grand old age of forty.
00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:51.839
But part of me wants to believe that Marie is still out there, protecting her city and warding off those who wish her ill will.
00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:59.279
What we do know for sure is that there's a never ending array of folklore, superstition, and embellishment surrounding Marie and her practices.
00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:09.680
While it might feel whimsical to believe that Marie was conjuring the dead, sacrificing men who did her wrong, and sicking spirits upon her enemies, and Lord knows I love a good dose of whinsian vengeance.
00:18:09.920 --> 00:18:22.960
The truth of the matter is that Marie was simply a woman trying to survive the world in a time when life was not particularly kind to women of color, or women in general, or anyone really, outside of rich white lawmakers.
00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:25.039
But as usual, I digress.
00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:29.519
Whether she was immortal or not, Marie, like all of us, had a dark side.
00:18:29.759 --> 00:18:33.599
After all, people are multifaceted, and Marie was no exception.
00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:36.799
During her lifetime, Marie owned at least seven slaves.
00:18:37.119 --> 00:18:37.680
I know.
00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:40.720
The call is coming from inside the house, but this one.
00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:50.319
Now, in the standards of twenty twenty six, we might be quick to judge Marie for this seemingly ironic and bewildering behavior, but in the eighteen hundreds, unfortunately, this was commonplace.
00:18:50.559 --> 00:18:57.680
Keep in mind, friends, that Marie was born a free woman and was seen as being in a higher class than those of her enslaved neighbors.
00:18:57.920 --> 00:19:01.039
I do have to wonder, however, did this keep her up at night?
00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:07.359
Considering she was mere decades away from being born enslaved herself, what did her mother and grandmother think of this?
00:19:08.079 --> 00:19:10.799
But this, like many answers, we can only speculate on.
00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:14.079
Marie also made plenty of enemies through her dealings.
00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:20.640
According to some accounts, Marie was not always picky about who she dealt with, or what that request might be.
00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:23.839
Lucky for her, she didn't always have to do her own dirty work.
00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:29.519
Several stories of enemies being forced from the city due to threats and her fanatical followers also exist.
00:19:29.759 --> 00:19:31.839
I mean, the girl certainly had fans.
00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:37.519
And she didn't always care to know if someone was innocent in order to help them, as long as enough money exchanged hands.
00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:39.680
I mean, come on, she's just a girl.
00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:48.559
Whether the outcomes of her more shady dealings were actually due to voodoo, or whether it was because of the fear of her presence, your guess is as good as mine.
00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:52.240
But I would hazard that the latter is the one to wager on.
00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:59.759
There's no doubt Marie was revered, respected, and feared by many in New Orleans, much like she still is today in popular culture.
00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:04.720
Friends, we like to think of those in the past as long gone, foreign, alien.
00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:08.960
But I'm here to tell you that there are no unique experiences in human history.
00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:12.799
Yes, your feelings and your memories and your relationships are your own.
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No, this does not take away from your individual experience on this strange blue globe spinning around a dying star, hurtling through the vastness of never ending universe.
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But is there not some comfort to be had in the recognition that the problems faced by one of history's greatest voodoo priestesses, born over two hundred years ago, aren't all that different from the problems we experience in our lives today?
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Our experiences are universal.
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A common invisible thread ties us together as a species throughout the millennia, across time and generations.
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As we know, dear friends, matter is neither created nor destroyed.
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So then where does it go?
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Marie Laveau still has living descendants today in New Orleans.
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So in many ways, she's still with us.
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Her story speaks of her humanity, her will to survive during a time that was not always very survivable.
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If you'd like to pay Marie a visit, tours are available to her tomb.
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It's said that if you draw three exes next to each other with chalk or charcoal on her grave, she'll grant you a wish of your choice.
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Even in death, Marie is never too far away.
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That is, if we are to believe that she actually ever died.
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Marie is that you That will be all for today's exploration of the psyche and inner world of Marie LeVaux.
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Tune in next week to find out whose life we'll be dissecting and discussing.
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All research and show content was developed by me, Katie Reimer.
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All sources for this research are available in the show notes.
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Intro by FSM Team and ESCP, and outro by Alex Productions.
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Transitional Music by Justin Allen.
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Until next time, dear listeners, stay safe and hold on to your whimsy.
