(Ep.55) Your Brain Is Doing Its Job: The Psychology of the Backyard Ultra with Sarah Strong

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Welcome to One More Hour.
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That's all about backyard culturists, I'm racist, and the ultra-funny mindset of going one more.
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If you're an ultra runner, or ultra runner to four months, or just someone who loves to test the women in the right place.
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I'm Jackie Wilson, an ultra-marathon and marathon mindfulness, drill runner, outdoor enthusiast, and backyard culture expert.
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On this show, we'll bring you stories, strategies, and conversations with runners, race directors, experts, and more to help you go further, dig deeper, and keep going when everything in you says stop.
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Thank you so much for joining me for some yards.
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Let's get started with one more.
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Welcome back to the One More Hour Podcast, your insider's guide to Backyard Ultras, last runner standing races, fixed time events, and the mindset of going one more.
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If you spent any time around Backyard Ultras, you know that eventually the race really becomes a battle with your own brain.
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And at some point you're tired, you're uncomfortable, you're sleep deprived, maybe you're having stomach problems, you're running slower than you expected.
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And you're very suddenly aware of how many hours you've been out there.
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And that's when these thoughts start popping up, right?
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I don't think I can do this anymore.
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Maybe I should stop.
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I've already done enough.
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What if something goes wrong?
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So today we are gonna get inside the process of what is actually happening when these thoughts start process popping up.
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How do you stay present when your brain really wants to think 12 hours ahead?
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What do you do when negative thoughts start popping up?
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Does make everything feel like in an emergency at 2 a.m.?
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And what happens when your brain starts negotiating with you?
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So to help unpack all of this, I'm joined by Sarah Strong.
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She's also known as the Trail Therapist on Instagram.
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I'm so excited to have her here today.
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Sarah, welcome to the podcast.
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Thank you so much for having me.
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I'm excited to talk about this.
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Awesome.
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So before we dive in, can you just give a quick intro of who you are?
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Sure, yeah.
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I'm Sarah Strong.
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I'm a licensed clinical social worker and a certified ultrarunning coach and an ultra runner myself.
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And I serve as a therapist to Coloradans and I help people all over the United States with the mental side of performance.
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Awesome.
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And you also do therapy outside, correct?
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Yes, yep, I do.
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Although right now with my I'm dealing with an injury, so it's a little bit limited, but I do outdoor hiking therapy and when injured, um, virtual therapy.
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So yes, but I'm a big believer in nature and that you know not everybody wants to be sitting still while processing really big feelings, especially athletes.
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We like to move our bodies and talk about hard things, so I do enjoy incorporating nature and movement into therapy.
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Awesome.
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I love that.
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So um before we really get into it, what's your knowledge about the backyard last runner standing races?
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Yeah, so I mean, I fought, I kind of fell in love with Biggs, like I guess the year Maggie um one.
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Um and uh and then my first ever hundred was in 2020 when all the races like got canceled.
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So I did uh backyard style from my house.
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The first uh 12 hours of the day, I did this um trail loop um the lake by my house, and then the 12 hours at night I did just a sidewalk behind my house.
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Um, and that was my first hundred.
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And I've also done um a 24-hour looped race, which is obviously not a last person standing, but the loop and kind of doing the same thing over and over um is something I've done a few times.
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So I've had my personal experience and I definitely like to follow from my couch as well.
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That's awesome.
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So are you gonna be following bigs in a couple weeks?
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Yes, of course, always.
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So I think a good place to start would be with mindfulness.
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And I mean, let's just start with the basics.
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Like what is what is mindfulness?
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What do we actually mean when we talk about being mindful?
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Yeah, so um often when people hear mindfulness, they think meditation.
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Um, and meditation can be a mindfulness, a formal mindfulness practice.
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Um, but mindfulness really uh at its core is paying attention in the present moment without judgment and on purpose.
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So, what does that mean?
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That means that we are noticing what's going on.
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That's it.
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We are noticing, and that's different than noticing and telling ourselves a story about it.
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Noticing and saying whether it's good or bad.
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So I think of it like us how a scientist observes, right?
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A scientist doesn't use words like too much or right, there's not judgment, it is a figure.
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There was X amount of rain in the rain gauge, right?
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Not there was too much rain.
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Perhaps it overflowed, but we right, we've got we have data.
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And um mindfulness is observing ourselves and the experiences that we're having as data that we're collecting.
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It's information, and then once we have that information, we can respond to it as opposed to reacting to those feelings or those things that are coming up, and we're not paying attention to that information, right?
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We're just reacting.
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So it is paying attention in the present moment.
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And and what advice do you have for runners who are are trying to do that, um, but they're also recognizing that, hey, I'm this is already feeling hard, and I'm thinking I'm thinking that about hour 24 right now, even though I'm in hour 12, and I'm like, how how am I ever going to keep going if it's if it's this hard right now?
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So the the thing with mindfulness and with anything that we'll talk about today, just like any other skill or muscle, um it requires repetition, um, and you have to work on it, you have to grow it.
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It's not gonna be effective if the first time you try to be mindful is when you're panicking uh 12 hours into a 24-hour event, right?
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Um because the brain has no experience with that, it's like um somebody who's never worked out before lifting like a really heavy weight, you know, it's not setting yourself up for success.
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So practicing mindfulness, making mindfulness a part of your everyday life, and building that ability for you to choose where you're putting your attention.
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So if every day I'm taking a couple minutes maybe before each meal, or maybe during my commute to and from work.
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Um, right, simple places that are already happening where I can just take one or two minutes to just practice some mindfulness, maybe have a mindful um minute drinking my coffee slowly and really noticing the taste and the smell and just being present with the coffee, right?
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I can focus my attention on that.
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It takes two minutes and I'm building that muscle.
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It's like a little bit of a workout.
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The more often I do that, the stronger the muscle gets.
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Doing things like that before your run, checking in with yourself.
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How do I feel head to toe?
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What's what kind of mood am I in before I go for my run?
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That can help when the run starts not feeling great.
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If I haven't checked in with myself, I might start saying, you know, I suck, what's so wrong with me?
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Why is this run so terrible, blah, blah, blah.
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And if I had checked in with myself before the run, maybe I noticed I'm tired, my back's tense, I've had a stressful day.
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You know, this run's probably not going to be aces, and that's okay, right?
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And so we want to just build in communication between ourselves, that mind-body connection as often as possible in our everyday life, so that when mile hour 12 happens and the brain's doing its thing, we can say, Oh, I'm noticing my brain is doing its thing.
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Now my heart rate's up, I'm panicked, I need to take a breath here.
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I need to regulate.
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You know, we're noticing we have more control because we're aware that the dysregulation has happened, as opposed to like all of a sudden noticing when we've spiraled really far.
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Yeah, that makes sense.
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So in the process of noticing that these thoughts are happening and occurring, um in the event that they start to become negative, which is common.
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Um what advice do you have for runners when they start thinking like, gosh, this is the end of my race, I can't do this anymore, this is miserable, right?
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Because we kind of jump to conclusions that they're we're done, even though yes, something has gone wrong, or maybe we're having these thoughts, but we're we shouldn't need to be done right now.
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Yeah, so there are a few different ways to approach this.
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The first is right, the temptation is to like argue with ourselves and um be logical, but it's an emotions-based problem.
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So when we start giving ourselves um reasons why we should quit, or you know, it's the negotiation started.
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That means we are super in our brain.
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And to get out of our brain, we want to shift to our body or to the environment around us.
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So if your body is a really crappy place to be because it hurts and it's sore, then turn to the environment, right?
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So that could be um, I'm gonna count how many different trees I see in the next quarter mile.
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I'm going to run to the next tree and then I'm gonna run to the tree after that, right?
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I'm going to see how many, yeah, different, how many people I pass or how many people pass me, right?
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We're giving ourselves something outside of the self to focus on.
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Or the body, things like um your footsteps, your breath, um just giving yourself again something out of your head.
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Like you we the reason we practice that mindfulness is to control where we're putting our attention.
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And so when you notice your thoughts are going, the mindfulness clicks in and you're like, oh, I'm gonna turn my attention to my body.
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I'm going to take a deep breath.
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I'm going to open and close my fists five times.
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And that's just a shift of your attention.
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And that will hopefully a, it gives you a little bit of control back, and B, if we're in that mind space that's really negative, we can be the stress response is activated, so we can be like incre actually increasing the stress.
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So by shifting your attention, you're like reducing that impact.
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So that's one way.
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So then the other thing is um if the trick that I like to think is if we're the thing that's freaking us out feels like big and far away, right?
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It's oh, 24 hours is so far.
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That's so in the distance.
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I want to shift my attention to the thing in front of me, my next footsteps, the next quarter mile, the next aid station, uh, the the whatever it is, like I have been in runs where it's I give 25 steps, 50 steps, right?
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Like that, and then I just keep doing that over and over.
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Whatever the biggest thing that you can allow yourself to chunk it to, like do that.
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And then the reverse, if you're really hyper-fixated on something in front of you, the hill in front of you, the um pebble in your shoe or something, right?
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Then shifting the attention outwards.
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Um, again, maybe to the environment or to that aid station now might look like a distance, right?
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Okay, I'm I'm not thinking about my foot, I'm thinking about getting to that aid station.
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So really noticing what the brain's fear is like latching on to, and then shifting the focus in either direction.
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Okay, so a couple questions there.
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Um, the first one would be you know, in the backyard, runners are running further than they ever have done.
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Um, and there's no way to really replicate that in training if they're going for let's say 48 hours.
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Um and it seems like the further you go, and when you're pushing your own limits, you're experiencing emotions uh that are just so strong you've never experienced them before.
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Is it solely the act of practicing these uh skills in training that allows you to default to those on race day?
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Or is there some way to remember them on race day?
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Does that make sense?
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Like sometimes like even though I practice them in training, when I am in that suffer zone, it's like I I can't remember anything.
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So what advice do you have for remembering them, or is it just the act of practicing them more?
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Well, so for sure, the act of practicing them more will increase the memory, right?
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The uh we build neural networks through repetition.
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So the more often we do something, the more familiar it is for the brain, the more quickly it's gonna default.
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If the brain is used to the negative thing, that's the first place it's gonna go, right?
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Now, to your point, we can't uh replicate that these things in training, it's really unhealthy.
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Um, but visualization can be a really fantastic way to give your brain the opportunity to build to get those repetitions in without putting the physical stress on your body.
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So doing visualizations that aren't you crushing the race and experiencing no pain and feeling the top of your game.
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It's visualizations where you're struggling, where um the you can't hardly think.
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So, what is the automatic thing I'm gonna do in this moment, right?
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You want to make it as automatic as possible.
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The more often we do it, the more automatic it becomes.
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So uh we have we'll talk, I think later about the large number of tools at our disposal, and it's really identifying a handful that work for you and practicing those over and over and over again, and uh because that's what's gonna make it automatic, right?
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Having I might have 16 different tools, but you want to have four or five that are your go-to tools, and we want to connect, so the more often we do them in the runs, the and in our daily life, you know, the more natural it'll be, but also we can connect it to things like um activation words, so like um a mantra or so.
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If we think about uh like you were saying, our I can't think of anything in the moment.
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So we want to make it as easy, low-hanging fruit as possible.
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Is there one word?
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If I just remember breath, can I then remember this tool?
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Right?
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If I just remember um counting, can I just remember this tool?
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And so essentially, you yourself, when you're out there training the tool, linking that word.
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And it could be like I eat the gel and I say counting.
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The more sensory experiences we link to the behavior to the tool, the more the brain's going to remember it.
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So, similarly, when you're doing visualization, tuning into as many senses as possible, really make that experience um like palpable for the brain.
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Like I can taste the gel, and that's my sign.
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Like now I can feel energy in my body, right?
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That connection.
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We want to like really see ourselves eating and feel ourselves energized from the eating.
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Um, and so trying to create those sensory connections as much as possible.
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Okay.
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So we're having these thoughts.
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Do you actually need to get rid of those thoughts, or is it okay to sit with them and still notice that they're there, but also just continue to accept them and move on?
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Totally.
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I so like the mindfulness, you know, I was saying earlier, it's it's the noticing piece, right?
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The noticing without judgment.
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And John Cabot Zinn has a really great metaphor where um mindfulness is like you're standing behind a waterfall and watching the water pour in front of you and you're seeing it for what it is, right?
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And so that's like when we're mindful, we're standing there observing the feelings, the sensations, noticing them.
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Yep, I'm panicking, I'm worried, that makes sense, right?
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Um, as opposed to when we're not being mindful, it's like you're standing under the waterfall and everything's just hitting you, right?
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So it's it's that difference between reacting and responding, right?
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I feel scared, so I'm scared and I'm panicked, or I notice that my body is having a fear response.
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That makes sense.
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My body is pumped full of stress hormones right now, and my body's job is to keep me safe, and this is stupid.
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And so my brain or my brain's job is to keep me safe, and this is stupid, and so my brain is trying to get me to stop.
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I mean, it it makes sense.
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What your brain is doing out there makes sense, and we don't want to train it to not do that in a lot of ways, right?
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Like it is a good thing, and so exactly what you said, it's like, yeah, thanks, brain.
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I see you, I'm safe.
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And and that's why the mindfulness piece is so important to start with, because we that's how we create that sense of safety for ourselves.
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We say, like, I can take a deep breath and tell my body that it's okay here in this moment, even though it's activated.
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Um because we can differentiate between the kind of fear that's keeping us alive and the kind of fear that's keeping us stuck, right?
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So there's I think a very specific point in the race when everything changes dramatically, and that's at night and a few hours into darkness, especially now in the fall when we have like 12, 13 hours of darkness.
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Um what is happening to the brain in this moment?
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Is it is it solely because we're running long sleep and and we should be sleeping?
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Like, what's going on when these thoughts are just heightened and everything feels like an emergency at night?
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Yeah, so like I just said, right, the brain's risk the brain's job is to keep us safe.
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And it does this by evaluating the environment for threats and predicting potential threats.
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So when we are running at night, um, it's looking out for threats, and there's it's not light, and so there's more of the unknown, which the brain really does not like.
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So it is in a state of hypervigilance.
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Uh, it's like the anxiety level is elevated because the brain is like trying to keep you safe.
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You are running at night, it is not used to that.
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It is an inherently dangerous thing where we would expect the stress response to say, oh, like what's happening here, right?
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The more often you run at night during training, the easier it will be out there.
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It's we the more evidence you or the more that you do it visualization, right?
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The more evidence you give your brain that running in night is not that different than running in the day, then the more that it's gonna believe that the easier it's gonna be on race day.
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And some of like you were saying before, some of we just have to accept that the night's a little bit scary.
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And um, and that's how it is, right?
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I'm gonna be a little bit jumpy at night.
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I need to think about that.
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What helps, right?
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And the more you run at night, the more you're able to see what helps.
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Um yeah.
00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:11.200
So there's also, you know, that point we kind of already touched on when your brain starts becoming that defense attorney, right?
00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:14.480
Like it's building a case for you for why you should quit.
00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:18.640
It doesn't just say you should quit, it's giving you all these reasons why.
00:21:19.759 --> 00:21:26.640
At what point, you know, I and I think runners can recognize it at different points in time too.
00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:28.799
Sometimes you don't recognize it for a while.
00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:33.599
Um, but what is happening when we are starting to negotiate with ourselves?
00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:43.039
Yeah, it's you know, it's it's more of that, it's just another way that anxiety and I say anxiety, but let me pause here.
00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:48.559
Like, um anxiety and fear are essentially the same thing, right?
00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:54.480
But anxiety is when the fear is not real, the the the threat is not real.
00:21:54.640 --> 00:21:59.759
So both are an activated stress response uh in response to a threat.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:00.480
Threat.
00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:02.000
Fear is a real threat.
00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:04.079
Anxiety is a perceived threat.
00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:09.440
It gets a little complicated in the backyard world.
00:22:09.680 --> 00:22:13.279
What is a perceived threat and what is an actual threat, right?
00:22:13.359 --> 00:22:17.599
And so that difference between fear and anxiety, it becomes a little nebulous.
00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:22.400
And so, right, like that just that is just true.
00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:31.119
Like sometimes there will be a thought at late in the game where somebody's got a serious injury or their health is at risk, and they do have to make a decision, right?
00:22:31.200 --> 00:22:33.119
And that is that is a fact.
00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:44.160
Um, so so one again, we just want to normalize like the brain, it's doing its job, and we want to create that sense of safety.
00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:54.000
So breath work, um, again, the more that you practice uh during training or an off, like not racing, the more effective it will be.
00:22:54.240 --> 00:22:59.119
But things to calm the to signal to your body it's safe.
00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:09.759
And if you can feel a little bit more regulated in your body, you can analyze that question a little bit better.
00:23:09.920 --> 00:23:14.079
So if we're okay, uh here, I know where I'm going with this.
00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:14.880
Okay.
00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:34.880
So when we are in an activated stress response, because the the brain is trying to keep us alive, we are stressed, we're like cavemen, we are running from the saber-toothed tiger, we are playing dead, we're fight, flight, freeze.
00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:40.400
We are not thinking about, well, is this a time when I should try this, or maybe I should try.
00:23:40.480 --> 00:23:43.039
What do you think the saber-toothed tiger is gonna prefer, right?
00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:44.160
We would be dead.
00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:45.279
That's not helpful.
00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:53.599
So when we are in a stress state like that, our prefrontal cortex, our thinking logical brain, is offline.
00:23:53.920 --> 00:23:55.359
We can't access it.
00:23:55.519 --> 00:24:00.000
Whatever feels like logic in negotiation is a bunch of anxious BS.
00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:06.799
It is fueled by our survival brain, and it is not incorporating logic.
00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:20.720
So we want to create safety in the body through the breath work so that we can access the prefrontal cortex and say, okay, let me look at this thoughtfully.
00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:30.480
Now, your prefrontal cortex 23 hours into a race, like we might just let's get to our crew and have our crew be our prefrontal cortex.
00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:31.200
Like, right?
00:24:31.279 --> 00:24:36.880
I mean, it's it's just true, it's harder to evaluate everything logically at that time.
00:24:36.960 --> 00:24:39.279
Like you're just not, you don't have all your faculties.
00:24:39.440 --> 00:24:48.319
But in that way, it's almost better to remind yourself that the stuff that's that feels so true and so certain is is not logic.
00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:54.400
It is it is information being fed to you from your emotional center.
00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:56.240
Yeah, I think that makes sense.
00:24:56.400 --> 00:25:09.440
I you know, I I hear I think it's one of the most common problems that I hear athletes talk about is let's say they they trip on the trail at night and they're okay.
00:25:09.519 --> 00:25:11.599
It's like, wow, that was a close call.
00:25:11.839 --> 00:25:15.680
Um but then their brain goes to but what if I trip again?
00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:22.480
Like, or what if I had hit my head or I landed on my wrist and I couldn't finish?
00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:24.079
Like that's an out.
00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:31.119
And the like their brain is just I don't know, working through that problem of how do I get out of that situation?
00:25:31.279 --> 00:25:34.079
Um, I think that's one of the most common things that I hear.
00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:38.960
Yeah, I that's a great um example, and it makes sense, right?
00:25:39.039 --> 00:25:49.200
So here a risk just happened, and the brain wants to keep us safe, so it's trying to predict potential other scenarios, right?
00:25:49.359 --> 00:25:54.880
And so in that moment, that's a great example of when we want to get out of our head and into our body.
00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:56.960
We want to be present and mindful.
00:25:57.119 --> 00:26:02.640
The brain's telling us a story, it's going in the future, it's trying to predict.
00:26:02.799 --> 00:26:04.000
It does not know.
00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:07.599
Any prediction it's making is based again in emotion.
00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:10.079
It's an it's just a guess.
00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:17.920
Um, or right, and so we just want so that would be a time where we would want to activate that environment, turn into your environment or to your body.
00:26:18.079 --> 00:26:19.839
Let's not engage with the brain.
00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:26.799
Uh, the thoughts that are gonna come up after a near miss are gonna be dysregulated, unhelpful thoughts.
00:26:26.960 --> 00:26:29.119
So let's just comfort the self.
00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:31.039
Like, yeah, okay, I feel fine, but guess what?
00:26:31.119 --> 00:26:32.319
I'm shaken up, right?
00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:35.279
I can feel that surge of adrenaline from that fall.
00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:38.079
My heart rate went up real high real fast, right?
00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:51.839
So I'm gonna take some breaths, I'm gonna comfort myself, I'm going to acknowledge that that was scary, and just that alone is going to decrease the impact that the fall has on my mental state.
00:26:52.720 --> 00:27:00.400
So in the backyard format or a last uh runner standing event, when that clock is always running, right?
00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:10.319
Like you have 60 minutes to finish the sloop, and runners are also feeling the pressure of gosh, like this event just happened, but I also need to keep moving.
00:27:10.400 --> 00:27:16.000
I don't feel like I have time to pause and take a deep breath.
00:27:16.160 --> 00:27:19.839
Um what advice do you have for them in that moment?
00:27:20.640 --> 00:27:32.160
Yeah, um, anxiety is a liar, and the biggest liar, the biggest lie that it tells us regularly is there's not enough time, and this is urgent.
00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:40.160
Um, and those two things will create that panic in us and will make us not pause, and that's a liar.
00:27:40.319 --> 00:27:42.079
You've got 30 seconds, yeah.
00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:52.559
And that 30 seconds that you take to have a deep breath is going to make the rest of your run more efficient and get you out of your head, is going to make the whole rest of the thing better.
00:27:52.720 --> 00:28:08.480
Um, and yeah, I I when we feel a sense of urgency, very often that's anxiety, like again, lying or creating, um just trying to get us to across the finish, right?
00:28:08.559 --> 00:28:10.319
And doing it in kind of that wrong way.
00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:20.559
And it's just acknowledging, and I think part of this is the intention and planning at the outset of the race.
00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:31.440
And so, you know, having that plan when I feel that sense of urgency, if I tell myself I don't have time to take a deep breath, I will know that's a lie and I will take a deep breath, right?
00:28:31.519 --> 00:28:34.319
Like, what are the things that you can anticipate?
00:28:34.480 --> 00:28:37.200
What are the things your brain normally tells you?
00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:40.000
Because we all struggle with different stuff, right?
00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:42.240
What are the lies your brain tells you?
00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:46.000
You can anticipate it and plan a response now.
00:28:46.160 --> 00:28:50.240
We're not gonna pretend like it's not gonna happen, like, well, hopefully I just have a great day.
00:28:50.480 --> 00:28:52.559
No, like it's gonna be a hard day.
00:28:52.640 --> 00:28:55.440
So, what do you do when the gremlins come in?
00:28:56.000 --> 00:29:06.559
Yeah, that's one of my favorite exercises to take athletes through is creating a T chart and writing down all the problems that could happen and then coming up with solutions on the right side.
00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:13.279
Um, I just think it helps get yourself in that mindset of like you can you can figure out these problems ahead of time.
00:29:13.519 --> 00:29:13.839
Yeah.
00:29:14.079 --> 00:29:14.799
Totally.
00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:33.200
And and some of them you can't, and so let's right, like so we're gonna let go of those ones and and we're gonna focus on those places where we can control and we do have an impact, which to your point is much larger than we often feel, and certainly than we feel in the moment, right?
00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:36.079
In the moment it's like I have no control and everything's happening.
00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:44.400
So um that's yeah, fantastic focusing on what is in our circle of control and letting go of those things that aren't.
00:29:45.519 --> 00:29:49.200
So a big part of the backyard is also crew.
00:29:49.359 --> 00:29:50.720
Some runners sell-crue.
00:29:50.799 --> 00:30:01.039
I've self-crewed before, I've also had crew before, but crew is huge with becoming the runner's brain and getting everything ready for your runner.
00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:11.440
What can crew do when they hear their runners starting to negotiate with themselves or say, like, uh, I'm done, I can't do this, uh, my blisters are too bad.
00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:14.559
Uh what can crew help for or help with?
00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:16.960
Yeah, that's a great question.
00:30:17.359 --> 00:30:30.640
So, first I would say as much as possible, the runner should um be self-identifying strategies that are helpful and communicating those with the crew, right?
00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:39.680
If you hear me cranky, please lead me through some box breathing or um stuff some food in my mouth because I'm hangry, right?
00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:43.920
Like um, different uh we're gonna need different things.
00:30:44.079 --> 00:30:48.480
Um hear things not like, hey, crew, don't sing to me.
00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:51.359
I had somebody once be like, can should I sing you a song?
00:30:51.680 --> 00:30:53.839
No, no, don't sing me a song, right?
00:30:54.000 --> 00:30:58.319
So maybe you tell your crew that at the outset, what you like and what you don't.
00:30:58.400 --> 00:31:00.079
So let's start with that.
00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:04.319
I and crew ask the runner, um, what helps?
00:31:04.480 --> 00:31:06.720
What sort of things do you like to hear?
00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:09.279
What do you not want to hear, right?
00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:14.400
Some people are really motivated by certain phrases that are demotivating to others.
00:31:14.559 --> 00:31:16.319
So starting with that.
00:31:16.559 --> 00:31:25.759
Um, and then yeah, I think think less about the what to say, right?
00:31:25.839 --> 00:31:27.680
So we're not arguing with them.
00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:32.240
We are because the arguing that's logic, right?
00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:33.599
They're not in a logical place.
00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:36.160
It's a it's a waste of your time, it's a waste of their time.
00:31:36.319 --> 00:31:39.039
We're trying to create a sense of safety.
00:31:39.200 --> 00:31:41.359
So is that getting some food in them?
00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:43.039
Is that helping them breathe?
00:31:43.279 --> 00:31:55.279
Is that um offering them sort some sort of reassurance or just like a nice touch on the back, like holding your hand to their back could help regulate the nervous system a little bit?
00:31:55.519 --> 00:32:12.799
Um helping them, if you hear them spiraling out, getting them into their body or getting them into the environment, asking them something positive that happened on that last loop, or you just really trying to get them off of that loop.
00:32:13.039 --> 00:32:17.839
Um, and you're not fixing, you're not rescuing, you're not proving them wrong.
00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:24.000
We the last thing that we want to do is try to get their prefrontal cortex like engaged.
00:32:24.079 --> 00:32:26.400
It's it's it's just gonna throw them off.
00:32:26.559 --> 00:32:28.480
So you want to focus on safety.
00:32:28.559 --> 00:32:37.839
We want safety in the body, um, which is yeah, mostly gonna be connecting to the body or breath work.
00:32:38.079 --> 00:32:40.640
Um, food is a really good way.
00:32:40.799 --> 00:32:47.200
Food hydration, just that they're slowing down their, you know, we probably need to eat anyway.
00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:54.960
Um, but I would I would strongly encourage crew to resist the urge to to fix, I right.
00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:57.119
We're fixing certain practical problems.
00:32:57.200 --> 00:33:00.319
We're not trying to fix their logic, we're not trying to change their thoughts.
00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:01.519
Yeah, yeah.
00:33:01.759 --> 00:33:20.400
Yeah, so I I think one of the uh more common situations that crew gets in is you know, their the runner has communicated with their crew how they want to be talked to, what they uh what questions they want to be asked, what they don't, what information they don't want.
00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:35.119
Um they've expressed their goals to their crew and they've said, I want to go no matter what, like if I'm not quitting, if I don't have a broken bone, if I'm not risking rhabdo, like keep me going out there.
00:33:35.359 --> 00:33:43.839
Um but then there's the the moment when the runner is in that emotional state of something went wrong, I am done.
00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:51.759
And sometimes you know, crew will just take a step back and they're like, gosh, I I didn't expect this to happen.
00:33:51.920 --> 00:34:01.599
I didn't expect my crew to or my runner to push back against me saying, like, hey, remember your goals, this is what we wanted to accomplish.
00:34:01.839 --> 00:34:03.519
Um, here's some food.
00:34:03.759 --> 00:34:09.280
In in that situation, um I mean, what advice do you have for the runner?
00:34:09.440 --> 00:34:13.119
Because it's a common situation that they get into.
00:34:14.239 --> 00:34:18.000
Well, so first that my ad yeah, a couple things.
00:34:18.320 --> 00:34:27.519
One, um everybody has to recognize the limits of their control and power.
00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:34.800
And it's quite possible that you can be a kick-ass crew and your runner doesn't reach the goal that they reach.
00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:40.000
And they the runner could have done everything they could do, you do everything they could do, they don't reach their goal.
00:34:40.079 --> 00:34:41.920
Nobody's done anything wrong here.
00:34:42.320 --> 00:34:55.760
That the runner doesn't hear your, you know, giving them the the tools that they asked for, and and they're walking away doesn't mean that you've done anything wrong, right?
00:34:55.920 --> 00:34:58.880
You've done what you were asked to do, it's not working.
00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:01.119
That doesn't mean that you've messed up.
00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:13.920
And so I think some of that is just um some acceptance of the process, it's starting with accepting before you get out there that your runner might not respond well at some point.
00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:16.239
They might be grumpy, they might push back.
00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:18.880
That's a thing to kind of plan going in.
00:35:19.039 --> 00:35:24.559
So one's like setting up the crew expectations and releasing some of that pressure.
00:35:24.639 --> 00:35:32.239
Like it is you you're there for support, you want to encourage and help, but it is not your job to get them to their goal.
00:35:32.719 --> 00:35:42.159
And then with the runner, you know, I mean, I think it's really hard to say because sometimes maybe that's actually the thing that they that needs to happen.
00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:48.639
I mean, that's um the backyard we don't know, right?
00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:56.480
Like there's all sorts of reasons why somebody it's not working and somebody needs to end the race, and and so that's okay.
00:35:56.800 --> 00:36:00.719
Um, I think when it's, you know, what advice would I give the runner?
00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:09.599
I think maybe to both, it would be when I know we've got the 60-minute time, when we can, can we take three minutes before we make a decision?
00:36:09.679 --> 00:36:11.280
Yeah, can we right?
00:36:11.440 --> 00:36:19.679
What can we do to help create a little bit of safety in the body and revisit whatever their decision, their impulse is?
00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:22.880
Um that's the best chance.
00:36:23.280 --> 00:36:28.800
You know, it's it's it's we we want them to be able to move from a place of safety, not emotion.
00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:32.559
Yeah, and uh that's really all we can do.
00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:43.039
But it is what you don't want, you know, I don't I think the mindset of it's my job to get them back out there can be dangerous.
00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:49.760
Um, I think it's my job to help them regulate so they can know if it's safe to get back out there.
00:36:49.840 --> 00:36:58.639
You know, like we want that we want to feel like the decisions coming from a more rational place, as rational as we can be at that time.
00:36:58.880 --> 00:37:13.440
But it's also, I mean, it's really about acceptance of the backyard process and that those really tough decisions, those really vulnerable, painful moments happen.
00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:17.039
And that's part of the connection between crew and their runner.
00:37:17.599 --> 00:37:32.800
Seeing those moments and seeing that that vision that they had before they started is brushing up against their experience in real time, and it's not what we all thought it was gonna be, and that's hard, right?
00:37:32.960 --> 00:37:41.280
And that's sometimes being there in the emotional aftermath is like being the amazing crew.
00:37:41.360 --> 00:37:46.079
It wasn't getting them the finish that's what they needed, they needed the support when they didn't, right?
00:37:46.239 --> 00:37:52.000
And so it's yeah, just thinking about your role, I think it in a little bit differently.
00:37:52.239 --> 00:37:54.159
Yeah, I love that approach.
00:37:54.400 --> 00:38:03.039
Um so when we talk about you know, our runner not continuing, um, ourselves not continuing in a race.
00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:10.639
How do you how do you talk to an athlete who is very unhappy with DNFing?
00:38:11.360 --> 00:38:16.559
DNFing is is completely normal and it it's frequent, it's not talked a lot about.
00:38:16.719 --> 00:38:22.639
Um but with the backyard, everyone is DNFing except for the person who wins, if there's a winner.
00:38:22.800 --> 00:38:27.760
Um so how do you how do you talk with an athlete who is really upset about their DNF?
00:38:28.639 --> 00:38:32.239
Yeah, well, so first I would just start by normalizing it, right?
00:38:32.320 --> 00:38:40.960
Um especially if that DNF comes with maybe a distance that was below what they had expected or they're not happy with their performance, right?
00:38:41.119 --> 00:38:45.360
Um and um first we normalize that that happens, right?
00:38:45.440 --> 00:38:49.519
We had Courtney crush hard rock and then DNF UTMB, right?
00:38:49.760 --> 00:38:52.320
So um those things happen.
00:38:52.480 --> 00:38:56.079
Um and it also makes sense that you feel sad and disappointed.
00:38:56.320 --> 00:39:08.239
And um, you know, sometimes I hear a lot of um, oh, it was such a waste of the training, you know, I put all this time in for what, and and there can be that regret.
00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:14.480
And it's all very normal responses, letting people sort of feel that and express that.
00:39:14.800 --> 00:39:30.159
Um, and helping, you know, I would help remind athletes that this is this is one part of your identity and one part of your story and one race in the grand scheme of things, right?
00:39:30.239 --> 00:39:43.440
And so um, yes, have the feelings and don't tell yourself a story about what it means, about who you are, what kind of athlete you are, or anything like that, right?
00:39:43.599 --> 00:39:50.400
It is an experience, and where I find the danger happens is when it's it becomes more than that, right?
00:39:50.559 --> 00:39:54.239
Um, so I had a DNF, so I am a failure, right?
00:39:54.320 --> 00:39:58.639
I had a DNF, so I can't run this distance, and those sorts of things.
00:39:58.719 --> 00:40:14.159
Um, so I think rooting back in that every race is its own thing, and in this kind of extreme sport, um there are a significant number of variables that can influence the outcome on any given day.
00:40:14.320 --> 00:40:15.760
I mean, there just are.
00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:26.800
And um the outcome on any given day has no, does not tell us who you are or what kind of person you are or what you're capable of.
00:40:26.960 --> 00:40:28.800
It just tells us about that day.
00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:38.559
So I would I would really focus on um separating the identity, uh like our identity should be more than just ourselves as runners.
00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:46.159
And um yeah, our who we are as a runner at any given time is more than the last run that we just had.
00:40:47.840 --> 00:41:00.159
So when you're thinking about shifting, shifting a little bit, um you're thinking about the thoughts of something went wrong, therefore I'm done.
00:41:00.639 --> 00:41:10.239
How do you uh shift that so you don't automatically shift to therefore I'm done when something goes wrong?
00:41:11.039 --> 00:41:11.360
Yeah.
00:41:11.599 --> 00:41:24.000
So this is where that mindfulness piece, you know, I think really comes in, is just being able to notice when the brain's telling a story, noticing that the body's reacting to the story it's telling.
00:41:24.239 --> 00:41:32.480
Um, and so the the biggest thing there is noticing what the brain's doing.
00:41:32.639 --> 00:41:46.559
Um and as soon as we're noticing, you know, again, maybe it's turning to the body, um, it's turning to the environment, or it's validating it the experience and it's offering compassion to the self.
00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:53.280
Like um going back to, you know, when we visualize, we visualize that things are challenging.
00:41:54.079 --> 00:41:57.039
We we are expecting this event to be challenging.
00:41:57.119 --> 00:42:03.440
And when it is, what we need is kindness, not to give ourselves a hard time that we're feeling challenged, right?
00:42:03.679 --> 00:42:10.880
So that would be um the other thing I would do in that moment is just be like, yeah, this is this is one of those hard moments.
00:42:11.039 --> 00:42:13.039
It's to be expected.
00:42:13.199 --> 00:42:17.199
It's not a sign, you know, that I'm hurting is not a sign that something's wrong.
00:42:17.519 --> 00:42:20.079
That this is hard is not a sign that something is wrong.
00:42:20.239 --> 00:42:23.920
That it's hard is the sign that I'm doing a really hard thing.
00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:31.360
And it's like part of that is the expectations were like how you're preparing yourself ahead of the event.
00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:35.039
You know, what are you expecting the day?
00:42:35.199 --> 00:42:36.559
How are you expecting the day to go?
00:42:36.639 --> 00:42:38.159
How are you expecting to feel?
00:42:38.480 --> 00:42:54.400
And like anticipating struggle so that when it happens, you can say, yep, struggle happens when you're out here for this many hours, as opposed to anticipating all good things when the struggle happens, thinking that that's means something's wrong.
00:42:54.559 --> 00:42:56.400
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
00:42:56.800 --> 00:43:00.559
Um, so we've talked about thoughts, we've talked about these feelings.
00:43:01.440 --> 00:43:03.039
What is fear?
00:43:03.360 --> 00:43:11.360
Because I I feel like fear is different or it it feels different than just thinking something negative.
00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:18.000
Yeah, so fear with fear comes the activation of the stress response.
00:43:18.239 --> 00:43:28.719
So um it's a uh it here we get back to the brain being responsible for keeping you safe and not happy.
00:43:28.880 --> 00:43:41.920
Um and so the brain does a lot of interpreting what uh yeah, that things might be scary or that we should have fear, whether or not things actually are, right?
00:43:42.079 --> 00:43:53.360
So um we might have a fear response in a social situation where we can feel our heart rate go up and we're sweating and our mouth is dry because we're nervous that we're being perceived.
00:43:53.440 --> 00:43:57.360
And our body's not actually in danger, but that response happens.
00:43:57.599 --> 00:43:59.760
And so, like I said earlier, anxiety.
00:44:00.400 --> 00:44:02.719
And fear are both a stress response.
00:44:03.199 --> 00:44:08.320
One is in the presence of an actual threat, and one is in the presence of a perceived threat.
00:44:08.639 --> 00:44:17.519
So when the stress response is happening, that sort of way of saying, like we're dysregulated, the emotions have taken over.
00:44:17.920 --> 00:44:24.960
And we want, yeah, we want to be 99 times out of 100, right?
00:44:25.039 --> 00:44:34.079
In this, in what we're talking about, the amygdala is going to be identifying things as being more dangerous than they are.
00:44:34.159 --> 00:44:36.000
You're not really in danger, right?
00:44:36.239 --> 00:44:38.559
But it's gonna feel like you're in danger.
00:44:38.719 --> 00:44:47.840
And so we want to be able to create that sense of safety to then be able to make a good choice.
00:44:48.159 --> 00:44:52.719
Fear, you know, if fear keeps you alive, like fear is a very healthy, good thing.
00:44:52.880 --> 00:44:56.559
Um, and so it uh it does show up.
00:44:56.719 --> 00:45:03.599
We want to notice it, but it's so for example, I'm running, it's night, I hear a rustle.
00:45:03.760 --> 00:45:06.239
Okay, that's gonna be a fear response.
00:45:06.400 --> 00:45:10.320
We won't even call that anxiety, it's an actual threat that there's an animal out there.
00:45:10.400 --> 00:45:13.360
Maybe it's not, it never is, it's always a bird.
00:45:13.519 --> 00:45:17.039
I always think it's a huge animal, and every time it's been a bird.
00:45:17.199 --> 00:45:20.400
Um, but and but my heart rate goes, right?
00:45:20.480 --> 00:45:22.400
And I have a complete fear response.
00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:26.079
And then I say to myself, that's okay.
00:45:26.320 --> 00:45:33.440
That was a bird, I am safe, and I am working on regulating in my body.
00:45:33.519 --> 00:45:35.920
But that fear is the fear still happens, right?
00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:48.719
The fear is going to happen, and the response um is intense, and it comes with shots of adrenaline and cortisol, which are stress hormones, which will impact our the way we think.
00:45:48.800 --> 00:45:51.599
Um, it gets us into that survival mode.
00:45:51.760 --> 00:45:56.400
Um, and we want to be aware that that's happening, right?
00:45:56.639 --> 00:46:04.000
So the the being able to say, Oh, I'm activated right now, so we don't trust our thoughts too much.
00:46:04.159 --> 00:46:11.280
Um, and again, just noticing it and labeling it gives us a sort of control that just takes it down a notch.
00:46:11.760 --> 00:46:12.960
If that makes sense.
00:46:13.280 --> 00:46:36.079
So in order to put all this together on race day and to remember uh what to do to get out of this state of anxiety or fear or to get order fixating on I should be done, um, what are some of the skills that athletes can practice during their training to set them up for success on race day?
00:46:36.960 --> 00:46:41.440
Yeah, so um I have a couple favorite categories.
00:46:41.599 --> 00:46:50.559
Um so probably first we're talking about how the prefrontal cortex and the emotional fear brain aren't gonna coexist, right?
00:46:50.800 --> 00:47:01.840
So if I'm super activated and my prefrontal cortex is offline, one strategy could be trying to invite the prefrontal cortex back into the game.
00:47:02.159 --> 00:47:18.880
So complicated math equations, uh counting backwards by seven, um uh doing uh like lists, making yourself think of every brand of candy that you can think of A to Z.
00:47:19.119 --> 00:47:24.159
Um, doing things that get you thinking and having to use your brain.
00:47:24.239 --> 00:47:25.840
So those are actually two different examples.
00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:35.199
One's the math is more that prefrontal cortex, and then the other is more like a distraction, but it does kind of get that higher level of thinking started as well.
00:47:35.440 --> 00:47:39.840
Um, and then um, like I said before, tuning into your environment.
00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:46.079
So counting trees, um how many different things can I notice?
00:47:46.239 --> 00:47:59.280
How many uh, yeah, I mean, counting, identifying things outside of you, um running to like different things that you see along the way, just shifting your focus to the environment.
00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:11.360
Similarly with that one, um, chunking or breaking the distance down, so to the next tree, to the next 25 steps, to the next aid station.
00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:20.800
Um another uh mindful uh break, I like it's called a snack break.
00:48:20.960 --> 00:48:26.960
So I think it's really helpful for runners because you know we often need a snack in the middle.
00:48:27.039 --> 00:48:28.559
Like sometimes, like, what's wrong?
00:48:28.639 --> 00:48:29.440
Do I need a snack?
00:48:29.599 --> 00:48:34.800
Yes, I actually need food, or I take a snack break, and that's essentially a mindful check-in.
00:48:35.119 --> 00:48:36.719
So I'm stopping.
00:48:37.440 --> 00:48:38.960
You don't have to physically stop.
00:48:39.039 --> 00:48:41.679
It's sort of like I'm stopping the train of thought.
00:48:41.840 --> 00:48:44.239
I'm saying, yeah, nope, attention to self.
00:48:44.320 --> 00:48:50.159
So I'm stopping, I'm noticing what's happening, I'm accepting that it's happening.
00:48:50.400 --> 00:48:52.880
So S N A, stop, notice, accept.
00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:54.159
I'm curious about it.
00:48:54.320 --> 00:48:55.519
When did this start?
00:48:55.760 --> 00:48:57.599
Is anything helping it?
00:48:57.840 --> 00:49:01.039
Is anything, you know, uh, is it getting worse?
00:49:01.199 --> 00:49:02.159
Is it getting better?
00:49:02.400 --> 00:49:03.519
That sort of thing.
00:49:03.760 --> 00:49:05.039
And then kind.
00:49:05.360 --> 00:49:09.360
I'm kind to myself, I'm kind making the decision moving forward.
00:49:09.519 --> 00:49:11.840
It's I'm I'm noticing what's going on.
00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:13.440
Okay, it hurts a little bit.
00:49:13.519 --> 00:49:16.480
I've noticed it for like the last 10 minutes.
00:49:16.719 --> 00:49:20.079
I'm gonna pay attention for the next few and see what happens.
00:49:20.239 --> 00:49:24.559
So we're curious and we're kind, and that's really present.
00:49:24.880 --> 00:49:29.679
Um, you know, it's not, oh no, what's gonna happen 20 miles from now.
00:49:29.840 --> 00:49:34.079
It's noticing and being curious in the moment.
00:49:34.480 --> 00:49:51.519
Um, and so similarly, um like a check-in with just while you're running head to toe, like how am I feeling, just loosening things up, kind of just going head to toe, and um and that just kind of taking some control over your attention and your body.
00:49:52.400 --> 00:49:56.480
Um music is huge.
00:49:56.719 --> 00:50:04.000
Um, you know, we want to distract if the brain is telling you terrible stories, we want to get out of the brain.
00:50:04.159 --> 00:50:05.920
So, whatever that's gonna take.
00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:11.280
If it's and some music can be good, depending on race and directions.
00:50:11.679 --> 00:50:17.599
Um, yeah, those are the ones that are coming top top of my head right now.
00:50:17.920 --> 00:50:20.159
So, uh, how many would you recommend?
00:50:20.239 --> 00:50:21.679
I think we talked about this earlier.
00:50:21.760 --> 00:50:27.920
Um, how many would you recommend that an athlete practices um in their training?
00:50:28.320 --> 00:50:32.880
Yeah, I also just thought of another one, actually, which would be mantras, which I super recommend.
00:50:33.039 --> 00:50:44.960
Mantras, um yeah, being a word that helps you regulate and connecting that word to your mindfulness practice will make it more effective on race day.
00:50:45.119 --> 00:50:46.079
So, how many?
00:50:46.239 --> 00:50:57.440
So I would say I would pick from a couple different categories, um, and I would try things out during training, like see what works, what doesn't.
00:50:57.519 --> 00:51:09.360
And then I would try, I would have probably like three solid go-to's um and like a backup or two that are really the ones that you don't normally like.
00:51:09.679 --> 00:51:20.719
Um so I think like I would give your crew a couple things that you're like, normally I don't like this because who knows when you're in this completely different mindset you've never been in before.
00:51:20.880 --> 00:51:25.599
Like you said, we can't um practice everything, right, with this kind of event.
00:51:25.679 --> 00:51:31.280
And so we can have some backup things, like normally this doesn't work, but like let's keep it in our back pocket.
00:51:31.519 --> 00:51:47.760
But I would really practice um uh and I had said the um the check-in and the body scan, along with that, just mindfully tuning into your footsteps or your breathing.
00:51:47.920 --> 00:51:50.880
Um, that's really just that present awareness.
00:51:51.119 --> 00:52:03.599
So I would really practice a mindfulness one, like just whether that's footsteps or breath, whether that's taking a snack break or just um some breathing, some intentional breathing.
00:52:03.840 --> 00:52:05.519
I would practice that.
00:52:05.920 --> 00:52:13.440
Um and then I would think about the okay, outside of my brain.
00:52:13.519 --> 00:52:21.760
So either an environment or an in turning to the environment and to the body, and maybe one of each.
00:52:22.079 --> 00:52:34.559
So um that could look like um turning to the environment, could be five things I see, four things I hear, three things I smell, like that.
00:52:34.880 --> 00:52:37.280
Turning, and that could that's also body.
00:52:37.440 --> 00:52:43.599
So so five green things, four red things, three yellow things, that would be turning outside myself, right?
00:52:43.760 --> 00:52:45.920
And then inside the body is gonna be that sensory.
00:52:46.000 --> 00:52:46.639
What do I notice?
00:52:46.719 --> 00:52:47.840
What do I smell?
00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:51.519
Um, and so that could just be a tool.
00:52:51.760 --> 00:53:04.000
So I yeah, I would focus on shifting the attention to the self, um, and then I would focus on in something in the environment and something in the body.
00:53:04.320 --> 00:53:04.559
Okay.
00:53:05.199 --> 00:53:06.719
And the math is good.
00:53:07.039 --> 00:53:07.440
Yeah.
00:53:07.599 --> 00:53:15.679
Um, just a funny story, not related to backyards, but uh talking about um maybe going through the alphabet.
00:53:16.400 --> 00:53:37.360
We've been taking my mother-in-law on a trip for the last few years, and we just went to uh arches and we took her on uh oh my gosh, I'm forgetting the trail that we were on, but you walk on this spine, and she was panicking leading up to that.
00:53:37.519 --> 00:53:49.679
And after she got across that, she told us that she was playing different mind games with herself, which she's not a runner, and and that was something that I'd never heard someone outside of running talk about.
00:53:49.760 --> 00:53:51.599
So I was really fascinated by by that.
00:53:51.679 --> 00:54:14.800
And then the next day uh we were hiking and it was getting pretty long for her, so she started asking me to play the alphabet game with her, and she actually had already started the alphabet, and she had made it through I think G, and she was talking about foods, and she's like, Okay, I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna try to remember everything that I've already said, and then we'll start with H.
00:54:15.199 --> 00:54:21.360
I was like, Wow, I don't know if I could actually do that, but awesome that you've been doing this the entire time.
00:54:21.840 --> 00:54:22.960
Yeah, I love that.
00:54:23.199 --> 00:54:30.239
And and I think for probably a lot of folks can relate to, like, oh, I do this, I didn't even realize I was doing it.
00:54:30.400 --> 00:54:34.639
Like my brain, like you know, has figured this out on its own.
00:54:34.880 --> 00:54:38.880
And um, and that actually uh that is a great one.
00:54:39.039 --> 00:54:54.320
So I'd said like the alphabet thing, but going back and having to repeat it A to Z, um, you know, it's just you're distracting your brain, you're you're having to think, and you're just not in that emotional space, you're not focused on the run so much.
00:54:54.559 --> 00:54:56.079
Um so yeah, that's a great example.
00:54:56.320 --> 00:54:58.559
I do that with my kids in long car rides.
00:54:58.800 --> 00:54:59.199
Oh, yes.
00:54:59.440 --> 00:55:00.800
That's all right, yes.
00:55:02.559 --> 00:55:03.280
That's a good one.
00:55:03.679 --> 00:55:19.679
If if a runner is listening to this and they're like, oh crap, I have a race in two weeks and I have not thought about the mental game, like I've just been focusing on the physical game of I want to run X number of yards in my backyard ultra, what should they do?
00:55:19.760 --> 00:55:26.320
Is is there something just small that they can start now and and work on um for the next couple weeks?
00:55:27.760 --> 00:55:38.880
Yeah, I think you know, m mindfulness or mind-body connection, like just that I said at the beginning that like pause maybe before meals or something like that, that could be huge.
00:55:39.599 --> 00:55:45.679
And I'd maybe start with what has the runners' experience been historically?
00:55:45.840 --> 00:55:50.320
So, what have the challenges been in previous races?
00:55:50.480 --> 00:55:52.000
And then let's start there.
00:55:52.239 --> 00:55:56.239
So, um, you know, is it a story that I've told myself?
00:55:56.400 --> 00:55:58.400
Is it there's a real legit fear here?
00:55:58.480 --> 00:56:02.559
There's an injury that, you know, like I need to attend to, though those sorts of things.
00:56:02.800 --> 00:56:05.199
But I I think, yeah, what has happened before?
00:56:05.360 --> 00:56:07.039
What have been the stories?
00:56:07.440 --> 00:56:10.239
What have been the triggers, right?
00:56:10.400 --> 00:56:12.159
Is it uh when I'm tired?
00:56:12.320 --> 00:56:13.679
Is it when I'm scared?
00:56:13.840 --> 00:56:15.119
Is it when something hurts?
00:56:15.280 --> 00:56:20.400
Like what tends to be the thing that sends the brain into that spiral?
00:56:20.639 --> 00:56:30.800
Um, and you know, like we've been talking about this whole time, not avoiding it, not pretending like it's not gonna happen, but anticipating it and identifying a plan of action.
00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:31.039
Yeah.
00:56:31.199 --> 00:56:40.559
So, no, we don't have time to practice those skills, but we do have time to think intentionally about them, help the brain sort of anticipate and prepare.
00:56:40.719 --> 00:56:43.280
So not it's not as much of a shock on race day.
00:56:43.679 --> 00:56:43.920
Yeah.
00:56:44.159 --> 00:56:47.199
Yeah, I think that's becoming more common in the ultra world.
00:56:47.280 --> 00:56:54.079
It's not as common in roadrunning, um, although I hope it becomes common soon.
00:56:54.400 --> 00:57:05.840
But to approach training as it's not just this physical thing, there's all these different aspects that play a large role in and the brain is huge in ultrarunning and pushing through those hard moments.
00:57:06.880 --> 00:57:12.000
Yeah, I mean, the brain is there for every single mile that your legs are there for.
00:57:12.239 --> 00:57:20.320
And you spend a lot of time training your legs and the other parts of your body, and the brain is there too, and we like to sort of ignore it.
00:57:20.400 --> 00:57:24.239
And like I think a lot of people are like, just hopefully it doesn't show up on race day.
00:57:24.320 --> 00:57:25.440
Like, hopefully, right?
00:57:25.599 --> 00:57:27.760
I just hope I have a good mental day.
00:57:27.920 --> 00:57:42.480
Um, and we don't ask that of the other parts of our body, and so I think, yeah, just honoring that the brain is a really important piece of the puzzle and that it also needs some training and some um effort the way that everything else does.
00:57:42.719 --> 00:57:43.920
Yeah, absolutely.
00:57:44.159 --> 00:57:46.960
Um, I have one more question for you.
00:57:47.039 --> 00:57:52.079
Um, but before I ask that, is there anything that we've missed or that you want to touch on?
00:57:53.280 --> 00:57:59.280
Um I think one skill that comes to mind is the alter ego.
00:57:59.519 --> 00:58:07.199
Um, and that's sort of like a race day version of yourself uh that you're activating on race day.
00:58:07.360 --> 00:58:22.079
And so that can be something that maybe it's like when the shoes that you put on or the shirt that you put on or some like the fuel that you're drinking, um, but you're like entering into racer mode.
00:58:22.320 --> 00:58:33.119
And um yeah, that can just be a really helpful, like if you spend some time sort of developing like who is my alter ego and what would they, you know, what would my alter ego do out on the course?
00:58:33.199 --> 00:58:37.440
Like who is your Sasha Fierce, like out on the course?
00:58:37.679 --> 00:58:47.440
And um, yeah, that can just be a helpful tool, um, kind of like with the mantra, it's like okay, activating and shifting gears.
00:58:47.679 --> 00:58:48.480
Yeah, awesome.
00:58:48.559 --> 00:58:49.199
I love that.
00:58:49.360 --> 00:58:55.119
Um, what is something that you wish runners understood more about their brains?
00:58:56.480 --> 00:59:27.920
Um that um stress on the body is stress on the brain, and that uh stress on the brain is stress on the body, and life stress can really have a big impact on how they're running, and running can have a really big impact on life stress, um, and just to be mindful of those things, and we'd like to imagine like our training exists in a bubble, and it doesn't matter that this week was really stressful or whatever, but it does.
00:59:28.079 --> 00:59:44.400
And so I just think, yeah, in uh considering the impact of stress um and yeah, and the role of the brain and the importance of protecting mental health in training and racing.
00:59:44.960 --> 00:59:48.719
Yeah, very well said, and I think we could talk about that for hours.
00:59:48.880 --> 00:59:51.280
Um we'll save that for another time.
00:59:51.840 --> 00:59:52.480
Great.
00:59:52.960 --> 00:59:57.679
All right, so where can uh runners learn more about you?
00:59:57.760 --> 01:00:01.599
Um, reach out to you if they're in Colorado for some help.
01:00:02.159 --> 01:00:12.480
Yeah, so on Instagram, I'm at the underscore trail underscore therapist, and my website is fireweedcounselinglc.com.
01:00:12.880 --> 01:00:19.760
Um, and I've got some groups coming out for injured runners and uh got lots of resources.
01:00:19.840 --> 01:00:28.079
Uh some of the strategies that we talked about today, I have some downloads available if you want to look at those in black and white instead of just hearing me talk about them.
01:00:28.239 --> 01:00:29.760
Um so definitely check that website out.
01:00:29.840 --> 01:00:31.119
There's some good free resources there.
01:00:31.360 --> 01:00:31.760
Awesome.
01:00:31.920 --> 01:00:34.719
I will put all of those in the show notes for everyone.
01:00:34.800 --> 01:00:38.000
Um, but thank you, Sarah, so much for chatting with me today.
01:00:38.159 --> 01:00:44.559
I think there's um a lot of takeaways that runners can start implementing their training um to help them on race day.
01:00:44.800 --> 01:00:45.280
Thank you so much.
01:00:45.360 --> 01:00:46.000
This was wonderful.
01:00:46.079 --> 01:00:47.360
I could talk about this for hours.
01:00:47.519 --> 01:00:49.280
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01:00:49.599 --> 01:00:53.360
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