Cindy Keyes: Everyone sees the brand. But nobody sees the build. I'm Cindy. And I'm Justin. And this is The Matrix Master. today is 9 11. And it's a day that I think for a lot of people nowadays it it's not as impactful, right? you know, I feel like my kids, your kids' age, they're learning about it in history books now. And we actually live through that. and I think that changed a lot in our country and and then we saw what COVID did with our country and and then kind of where we are now and just the state of life and the economy is so different now. And so we're gonna talk a little bit about all of that and and then bring it all back into work and what does that mean? what are some things that we can do so that we can all be prosperous and grow in this really tough economy and and very different times from what we grew up.
Justin: Yeah, I feel like this last twenty five years has been a wild ride. And a lot
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: different than what I imagined it might be like, if you asked me in like nineteen ninety nine, what do you think it'll be like when you're forty years old? We I and I don't think we ever imagined anything like nine eleven. That was that was a wild thing and I know I people make fun of like the Gen X and millennials who are like, We were there, man. Well, it was a traumatic experience. I mean, it was we're all trauma bonded by that. I mean, those of us lucky enough that to have not lost a life or lost a family member. But still, I mean it it affected everybody, clearly, right? So so
Cindy Keyes: Yeah. Do you still remember what you were doing, where you were at when that happened?
Justin: yeah. Yeah. I will it's interesting because I am forever trauma bonded to someone who I is now a family member. So I I was a senior in high school. Right, and just going about, you know, my happy happy little life of, you know, kind of top of the world, like you know, pretty fun. carefree experience as a as a high schooler, right? and the first plane hit As we were like driving up to school and and everyone was kind of hearing it on the radio. So we were all listening to pretty much the same, you know, morning drive DJs and and they're saying, Hey, something hit in New York. What is that? Like, that's weird. What an accident. Right. And so we came into our first period of class and my teacher was like the senior, you know, the senior level government economics. and politics teacher. And she was I would probably say like prob one of the easily one of the best teachers in the school. And that was like the class.
Cindy Keyes: Mm-hmm.
Justin: And for us, you know, 17, 18 year old kids, like she was the one who explained to us like how the government really works. And it was interesting, you know, and and President Bush was president at the time and he was the governor of Texas before that. And she despised him.
Cindy Keyes: Ha ha
Justin: You know, which was weird. Like in Texas, everyone's Republican. She was like in the Democrat county club and stuff, right? And but we were always listening with baited breath everything she had to say about politics because she really knew how it works. She knew, you know, from the local to state level. And anyway, we run into her class and we were like, Hey, something weird's going on in New York, like turn the TV on. She had like the rolling TV, right?
Cindy Keyes: Yes, I remember those.
Justin: Yeah, right. you usually roll those out when the sub when the sub is here, right? But like, we're like, turn it on. We turn the thing on and that second plane hit. We all we're all watching live. And we're just
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: you know, we're just looking at our teacher like and and she's got her coffee cup just like jaw dropped. And we were like, What is this? Yeah, like we're
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: looking at her like explain. You know, and she's like,
Cindy Keyes: Ha ha
Justin: dude, I do not know. Like this is this is something, right? And so we sat there, eyes glued to the TV, just jaws on the floor, and then it was like, Boom, then the Pentagon gets hit and other planes are missing and we're all just like glued to the floor or glue to the TV, jaws on the floor, like not just completely zoned into this. Yeah, n I mean, total silence. I mean the class of like rowdy kids, like just all glued to this thing. and then when those towers fell, we were just like my God, it's tragic, right? But interestingly, something I didn't know about that teacher is that later on I would meet her daughter and we
Cindy Keyes: Ha ha ha.
Justin: really hit it off And that lady is now my mother in law. I've been married for fifteen years to her daughter. And so every nine eleven, you know, when people are talking about
Cindy Keyes: Ha ha ha.
Justin: where were you, like she and I both look at each other and we were like, you know, we kind of rode that ride together. You know, so it's kinda interesting. Like we're kind of forever linked and trauma bonded to that and you know, I remember like ever we all remember those images and just as much as those images I remember my own future mother in law standing there in front of a bunch of kids and and this lady, she was the it teacher, she had all the answers. She's looking at us like, God help us. I have no idea what the hell this is,
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: but it's bad. So
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: Where were you where are you, Cindy? Surfin', California?
Cindy Keyes: Yeah. Well, I mean, I wasn't in high school because I'm much older than you. So I was like in my early twenties. I was actually working, I think, at the department store at that time. And I remember being asleep and then I get a call and somebody said, Turn on the TV and I was like, What? And you know, I mean I think it w when did I how yes it I think I was No, it kind of summer. Yeah, it's still considered summer, right? Right now. and yeah.
Justin: Yeah, it's definitely hot still.
Cindy Keyes: But I was still sleeping. I was like, okay. And and they said, you know, the s you know, s the twin tower fell. I was like, what? I didn't even this is how ditzy I was. I didn't even know what the Twin Towers. I was like, What? The what? And then I so I turned on the TV and I watched, I like, And then as I went on, I'm like I need to go to work. Like what is going on? And my cousin actually I don't know what company he worked for, maybe it was Morgan Stanley. I just knew he had one of those big hot shot you know, Wall Street type of jobs. And so of course the first thing that I thought of was him and was like, you know, mom, dad, like, did you call it, you know, then it's to make sure he's okay. And so, you know, we found out like he was, he wasn't there at the time. And so yeah, it was it was weird. I mean it was like it felt surreal because I mean obviously I was old enough to kind of understand a little bit more like what was going on. but yeah, I mean the and I I grew up in the eighties. So I watch a lot of like eighties movies and terrorism was always in that, but it was always like, you know, they hijacked planes, right? Do you remember all those old movies back in the days or like late eighties?
Justin: yeah, yeah.
Cindy Keyes: Yeah, it's like, you know, hijacking a plane was always what terrorists do, but it was always for ransom, right? It was like always a way to
Justin: Yeah.
Cindy Keyes: kind of get pay you know, money or or something.
Justin: Yeah, they weren't like using them as bombs. Right. No. Yeah. It was always
Cindy Keyes: No. Yeah. Well at least not in the movies, right? Yeah.
Justin: like, yeah, and then Bruce Willis is gonna come and get every g you know, kill each guy and get everyone out. Yeah, I mean. but yeah, we're
Cindy Keyes: Yeah, exactly. It's yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Justin: sitting there just yeah, just feeling like my pants are down, like we are just getting annihilated here. You know,
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: and like watching these videos and reflecting on it, you know, today as as people do, especially on like a big anniversary, I guess it's 25 years. you know, it brings me back to remember that even that that whole week was, you know, we don't feel safe.
Cindy Keyes: Weird. Yeah. Yeah.
Justin: We don't feel normal. We feel like we've all
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: been kicked in the in the mouth, right? Like and we're all looking up in the sky. Remember how like quiet the skies were and we're all just kind
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: of and then you do see a plane and you're like my gosh, where's that plane going? You know, like you finally saw
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: one and it's like it's not going anywhere. Like, you
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: know, like I remember in Texas too, they were like, you know, all stay away from pub public buildings and you know, for those of you who haven't been to Texas, they're like the buildings are like twenty feet tall. Like there's no
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: there's like three skyscrapers, you know, like a couple
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: in Dallas, couple like they're not there's no targets here, right? But But everyone was, you know, freaked out.
Cindy Keyes: Well, we didn't know what was going on. We didn't know what was happening, or like what was the end game. Like, you know, usually when
Justin: Yeah.
Cindy Keyes: it comes to hijacking or rant it's always like they want something, right? Like somebody wants money and we never in our I mean, never did we think it was really to destroy the the very fiber of our country. And, you know, I think when people started realizing that and just living through like the people who died from it and then how many people were missing and you know seeing videos of people kind you know falling out of these buildings
Justin: yeah.
Cindy Keyes: was crazy, right? And I think for the first
Justin: Yeah. Yeah, that to me the yeah, the the jumpers for me was the most gripping tr part of the tragedy. That and the firemen,
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: you know, like I don't know if you saw that one documentary where the firemen are in the lobby and you're hearing people slamming and every time it's like, you know, the firemen are looking up and then you hear the the beep of when a fireman stops breathing. Like when a fireman gets buried, like they that some alarm goes off so they can find him. And you're just hearing that beep beeping going off, like after the towers collapse, you hear nothing but
Cindy Keyes: Cheese.
Justin: beep and it's just like god I mean I'm getting getting goosebumps thinking about that. Like just how awful that is.
Cindy Keyes: I know. And the people that are out. Yeah, the people who got out, the people who were out on the streets, the people who are like, how do I like where do I go now? I mean I I can't
Justin: You know,
Cindy Keyes: imagine.
Justin: one of my friends who was in that room when we were watching the the whole disaster, ended up going to college in the Northeast and he met a girl whose dad survived.
Cindy Keyes: Wow.
Justin: and you know, he was a big guy and a bit, you know, businessman and a and a big man, you know, in stature. And I mean, he hoofed it down like eighty flights or something, helping people along the way, like grabbing whoever else they can, like and thank God got out before, you know,
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: and they and lived. And like that's that's crazy. You
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: know? All those all those stories are so crazy.
Cindy Keyes: Yeah, and I think the good thing that came out of that, like I you know, we never felt that kind of patriotism in a long time in our country where we really felt this desire to kind of be strong. And it is weird because I don't know, maybe it's just in the last decade Or it you know, patriotism for our country isn't that strong. And you look at other countries and even though some of them may not be capitalist countries, there it's just it's natural to have pride in your country, right? Patriotism. And you know, for for such a tragedy, like it did make us stronger as a country. Like we really did realize like we all experience the same thing regardless our skin color, regardless of you know our sexual orientation or you know anything. Like we were all Americans at that time and there was something attacking us. And that's what's kind of sad about our society as a whole. It's almost like we need something horrible to reunite us. Otherwise we just keep fighting within ourselves. You know?
Justin: Yeah.
Cindy Keyes: And it's like you watch these alien movies, right? Like, okay when the aliens are coming then it's like yeah yeah We all join together to fight the aliens. But then when everything's
Justin: Yeah.
Cindy Keyes: good, we're just finding every little excuse to fight against each other. You know? And then it's like we have COVID that happened, right? And then COVID just shut everybody off. Like don't
Justin: Yeah, I don't know if it's w yeah. I mean i it's interesting how quickly it goes back to all right, and now let's all point fingers at each other and blame each other. Yeah, I mean, you know, looking back on it, yeah, we were united. We were very you know, yeah, patriotic, nice to each other. Most people, I know, you know, some people had a different experience, some people They look a certain way, we're getting punched in the street and stuff, right?
Cindy Keyes: Yes. Yeah, actually that's very true.
Justin: you know, you think about that. There was not many people like that where I grew up, unfortunately, but You know, but a couple of years later, you know, some of some of my friends
Cindy Keyes: All right, back to it.
Justin: some of my friends went headlong right into, you know, Afghanistan and Iraq and because we're that age and they came back going, Yeah, no, it's all bullshit. You know? So,
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: you know, and and God bless them, like a lot of them are, you know, proud to serve and still proud to serve, but also going, Wait a minute.
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: You know, and so and then COVID I think is a funny example too. Like everyone was banging pots and pans for like nurses.
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: And then like I don't remember how much longer later, but then we're all going, you know, it's a lab leak, it's you know, the vaccine's gonna kill everyone, it's Trump's fault, it's Biden's fault, it's whoe you know it's China, no, it's not China, it's
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: Fauci. Like pretty quickly we were like kinda like assholes to each other. Pr right?
Cindy Keyes: Yeah. Well, but I mean you know what's crazy though? So like from twenty twenty and two thousand one is like less than twenty years. We but so much change in that twenty years, right?
Justin: Mm.
Cindy Keyes: Because I think back in two thousand one we Yeah, I know, we did have internet by then. I like, no, it was not that old. I was like No, because I was like trying
Justin: No, we had internet. Yeah, we had already had a
Cindy Keyes: to pre well that just shows how old I am because I I still remember dialogue. I don't
Justin: Yeah. But you know well, you know one thing well yeah, we we had internet, just it's not what it is now. We couldn't do stuff like this. We didn't have podcasts.
Cindy Keyes: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Justin: you know, I was thinking, you know, whenever I was looking at all these photos and videos today, you know, on the internet. I was thinking and I was reading a story about how teachers are teaching kids that were not born anywhere even near it, right? and some of the teachers even, some of the teachers that my wife works with were not even born yet when
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: 9-11 happened. And they're old enough to teach kids. But just to give you an idea how how much time has passed, but I was like, why don't I have any pictures? Why don't I have any anything?
Cindy Keyes: Mm-hmm.
Justin: And then I remember like, well, in 2001, we You know, some of us had Nokia phones in the pocket, but we weren't going around taking pictures of things. You would get a disposable camera at like a wedding.
Cindy Keyes: I think we had razors. Yeah.
Justin: Some people maybe had a razor. I didn't get my first razor 'til two thousand four, three, four.
Cindy Keyes: I think we had digital cameras by then. I think. Yeah, yeah.
Justin: We had those big clunky digital cameras, yeah. But like but it wasn't normal to go around and be like, Hey, let's take a selfie, like here's
Cindy Keyes: Thank you. Yeah.
Justin: here's all of us watching the disaster, you know, like
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: can you imagine like you know all the videos and footage and things that we see now, imagine if like everyone back then all had, you know, a ki a camera in their f in their pocket the whole
Cindy Keyes: my gosh. Yeah.
Justin: time. Like
Cindy Keyes: I think that was like a pivotal moment in our society because it was like it's like something changed, right? Like people changed, like everything changed. And then COVID, twenty years later, less than twenty years later, another thing that kind of changed culture. So we went from this like society where we were very, you know, patriotic and their unity and patriotism and then you know joining together and and now and then to COVID where we were all separated. We were kind of like like you were afraid to even kiss your grandma because you were afraid to kill them. You know?
Justin: Mm-hmm.
Cindy Keyes: Like it is it's so weird how in just that short time period. culture and society and what's normal and has changed so much.
Justin: Sure.
Cindy Keyes: And, you know, when we grew up, like what did we think about what did we think our life was gonna be like? It was like go to go to, you know, finish high school, go to college, get a job, buy house, have kids, put it save money in your four one K, retire, and then live a retired life like right
Justin: Yeah.
Cindy Keyes: that was what we thought was and but back
Justin: Right.
Cindy Keyes: then you could I mean I remember my uncle he worked for IBM for 30 years. It was just his one and only job and he just worked there. And then my other aunt and uncle same thing right and they were the typical you know they lived that life that you know that they came to America to pursue at that time. And then COVID made everyone like not want to work. And because people were also earning guinea money from the government for not working, for not doing anything. And then we were so scared of each other to be in person.
Justin: my gosh.
Cindy Keyes: Right? And You know, and I and I feel like so much has changed and then now we're kind of in a situation now where there's like wars going on, economy and and is it's all over the place. The price of gas is crazy, you know, the pri the interest rates, which you know, I think people were c talking you know, thought it was crazy that'd be like in the seven, eight I think did it go up to like seven, eight percent or something for interest rates, but
Justin: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Cindy Keyes: You know, back in the eighties when my parents bought our first home, it was like thirteen percent. But back then, yeah,
Justin: Which is insane.
Cindy Keyes: but back then homes were under a hundred thousand dollars. They weren't on average a million. So it's like it it's kinda c crazy.
Justin: Yeah, the the debt to income ratio for a normal family was a much more palatable thing, you know,
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: like so I don't know. I do think, you know, and it was a new century. I mean, I do think you know, whoever did that to us 'cause I don't think there's a a lot that's still clear of, you know but I think it was a message to like kind of like, hey, the the party is over. Meaning like your country's post World War Two like victory lap of like everyone's
Cindy Keyes: Mm.
Justin: doing pretty great. Everyone's economically doing well for the most part. I you know, I know I know people struggled, right? But like for the most part, like there's an interesting I don't know, I felt growing up in the eighties and nineties that like life is really good and we're on top. We are the number
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: one country, hands down. Now I had never been to any other countries back then,
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: right? But I think it was that shot to the face to go, bam, like you think you are, but maybe not, right? And like buckle up because it's gonna get weird. Yeah, we did. We did.
Cindy Keyes: But it's you believed it. Yeah. Yeah.
Justin: But you know, and that's being tested and I think, you know, no one ever came and tested us on our own shore, you know, in a while, right? Even Pearl Harbor, like, is in Hawaii, you know, it's like
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: vacation town.
Cindy Keyes: Well, when these are too good, you know, you you let your guard down. And I think that's it, it's like, you know, when it comes to enemies, wherever it whoever your enemies are and they're n they're looking for the long term. And they're looking to poke holes. And, you know, look at it. It's like if you leave your car unlocked and because you're like, I live in a safe neighborhood, you do that every day. One day, you you know, somebody might break into it. Right. It's just because you let your guard down, right? And so I think that's really what happened. But it just I think it just changed so many things because I know when I grew up The idea of small businesses and running your own business, like there's so many small businesses everywhere, right?
Justin: Mm-hmm.
Cindy Keyes: And we didn't have these big, huge malls. It was like just small businesses, like, you know, there'd be shopping centers, but they were all like individually owned. They weren't big name brands, right? It was like, yeah, they are like what Kmart or whatever back in the days. But it was
Justin: Yeah, we had Kmart. Yeah.
Cindy Keyes: like everybody then that was like the American dream for like especially for me and my family being immigrants, it was like coming to America for the opportunity. To build something, and my parents came and built something. And but through time, I think in the last you know, for 20 years, especially, it hyper accelerated where it was just the the consumption of small businesses, consumption of the middle class. And so now it's like this these big corporations. And I know we always kind of talk about corporate life, and I think I I think
Justin: Mm.
Cindy Keyes: it's like really clear that it's not corporate life that I think is bad, it's like it's a bureaucratic, toxic corporate life where the corporation is like a monster
Justin: Yes.
Cindy Keyes: and it sucks out, you know,
Justin: Yeah.
Cindy Keyes: the livelihood of people, right? Like those kind I mean, we have a corporation. Yeah.
Justin: Right. Like companies that exist only only with the sole mission to get bigger and make more money.
Cindy Keyes: And to take out other small businesses, right? It's like you're gonna have a business, you're gonna
Justin: Right. Yeah, it's destructive.
Cindy Keyes: take out like all of these small businesses, and then you hire people, but then they're so reliant on you that you know they can't just leave because you're the only big company in that neighborhood. I mean, you know, where we live there's obviously a lot of opportunities. Well, I mean, California's changing now too. All the big companies are leaving. So what's going to happen, you know, eventually. But yeah, and it's just like it just everything feels different. And I don't know if like the same and of course there's so many great companies out there. And even in our space, the aesthetic space, like there are so many great companies are doing great things where the, you know, the founders and And the leaders are passionate and they're excited. And the people who work there are really happy, right? Doing what they're doing. but then there's also on the flip side, you know, there's a lot that's that's changing where it just becomes a money grab. and people's, you know, like the people don't matter anymore. And that's that's kind of sad. Considering
Justin: Yeah.
Cindy Keyes: like when we grew up, it was like this this dream. And I and I wonder what the dream is for kids nowadays. Like, what is your dream? You know?
Justin: Right. I well I do think it's It's shifted because I think the message, I think the you know, the the dream when we were younger was hey, in this country, you know, you can get a good job, make good money, and like find your happiness, you know, like f create a fulfilling life for yourself and kind of like everything's taken care of, right? But I think as As business and technology accelerated to a degree where, you know, acquisition after acquisition and technology ramped and all of a sudden it was like, you know, all of these technologies. And I think, you know, I think technology plays a huge role in what we're talking about here. Because, you know, right around that time, you know, was when okay, everyone's now has websites, e-commerce. We already had the first dot com bubble, you know, which you know the AI bubble now like kind of reminds you of, right? and you know, corporate scandals like Enron and things like that were going on back then where you were like,
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: okay, so there's a lot of like, you know, white collar jobs where people are using this technology to steal from people,
Cindy Keyes: Mm-hmm.
Justin: right? And now we have this technology to connect, but we don't know how to disconnect. And so we saw a lot of people as this engine revved up, their souls unraveled. Like
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: it's not healthy. Even the best, if even if even if you love your job, if if you're getting a ding on your phone every 12 seconds, and you've got you never have inbox zero.
Cindy Keyes: I've given up on inbox zero.
Justin: You know, you're you're always I know, but you know you know what I mean though, like that overwhelming number, and the overwhelming stimulus and people just taking from you, right? And like there's an in my opinion, there's not enough money in the world that can make up for that peace.
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: For the peace of like standing on a beach and just listening to the waves.
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: Right? Like so I think we as our economic engine revved up and as our technology went into hyperdrive, we kinda lost our humanity a little bit. We lost our nature. We got away from it. Right? And when you talk about COVID I I do think a lot of people snapped out of it in COVID because we were forced to. Like, hey, no one's really working right now. But even like I know, I mean, you and me both were in like high pressure corporate roles when COVID hit. And I still, even if no one was working, I had the immense pressure of like, well, I must be moving the needle somehow. Right?
Cindy Keyes: Yeah, yeah.
Justin: I must be like training my people. I must be reaching out to customers and checking on them. I must be recruiting.
Cindy Keyes: Ha ha ha
Justin: I mean, I worked my tail off during COVID and my wife was looking at me like, what are you doing, dude?
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: And I talked to the owner of the company and they're like, I'm playing golf. Like everyone else who was an absolute workaholic, like, they were like, We're at the beach. Like, we're doing puzzles. Like,
Cindy Keyes: Yeah. Yeah.
Justin: we're drinking all day. And I'm like, sending like, what's wrong with like
Cindy Keyes: Well that's how but that's how we grew up though. Like I think you know, the the generation are you wait, are you Gen X or do you Gen X border?
Justin: I'm I'm an ol I'm what we call an older millennial. Right. There's a difference too. Like my sister's a younger millennial and she's only like
Cindy Keyes: Okay. In older millennial. Okay. But yeah. Yes.
Justin: five years younger, but there's a difference. There's a difference. Like some
Cindy Keyes: Yeah. So you're closer to the Gen X. Well I think
Justin: of them like she had internet for every research paper she ever did. I had
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: to like go to the library and like get an encyclopedia, you know, like
Cindy Keyes: In a in a microfiche or what was that what it's called?
Justin: Look at the microfiche. Yeah, those little yeah. Those are fun. I those are fun.
Cindy Keyes: But I know. Yeah. Or just having, you know, Star Sixty Nine on your phone or is it Star Sixty Nine or Star Six Seven? Or like call back the last person or or
Justin: Yeah, Star sixty nine was called back, right? Or yeah.
Cindy Keyes: like switching from one to another, like, hold on, I'll be right back, and then you jump on to and then you're still with the other person.
Justin: Yeah. Beep beep. Hello.
Cindy Keyes: gosh. Yeah, but I think we grew up, you know, we all like For me getting a corporate job was like the dream. It was the dream. It was what we it was like you go to college and it was a dream to get a corporate job. And you know, getting a job at L'Oreal was a dream, you know, in every sense of the word. And it was a good company, and it still is a good company. I mean, it's like it develops and it's created the structure where it was it built and trained people. It's like a machine, right? Like once you kind of go through this machine, you come out of it. And it's so true because I every L'Oreal person I talk to, we we have similarities in the way that we
Justin: Mm-hmm.
Cindy Keyes: work and we talk about how we always know somebody that came out of L'Oreal because there's just something about them that we just
Justin: Mm-hmm.
Cindy Keyes: know because it's like you've gone through that machine. And and it was so good in that that part of your life, which is early on in your career, right? You're being trained. And then you're able to kind of move on and and and do other things
Justin: Yeah.
Cindy Keyes: and but I and sometimes I feel like now I mean and I don't know any people who are young I mean young enough right now who are just going into companies like L'Oreal to see if it's even the same as it was back in the day, you know, or has have they changed as well. all but all we hear is from the side of companies that get acquired by L'Oreal and how much it's changed is for them because
Justin: Right.
Cindy Keyes: a lot of companies and I won't say any names like you know
Justin: I know. I do I do feel like, you know, the big corp because right, like talking to our dads and granddads is like that's a he was an IBM man, you know. and he he worked at Ford, you know, like his whole life.
Cindy Keyes: Yeah. Yeah. Or Boeing or this. Yeah.
Justin: Yeah, like you had like eight big companies and then everyone else was a small business, right?
Cindy Keyes: Mm-hmm.
Justin: Or a ranch or whatever, right? Like a restaurant, ranch, tri cleaners, right?
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: Most people I talk to that work at a big company now, it's because that big company bought the company they started with. You know, like
Cindy Keyes: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Justin: like you're talking about, like, you're at L'Oreal. Well, I started at, you know, Jimmy's Jimmy's
Cindy Keyes: Whatever, yeah.
Justin: skincare and it got we got immediately swallowed up. And I'm just now like, you know, holding on, holding on, hope it hope they'll hope they'll keep me around.
Cindy Keyes: Yeah. Well and I think that's also hard because if they were acquired, they have to adapt to like a certain way of doing business very quickly. And we know that a big company, corporate company and the way a small startup that grows, it's a totally different environment and different culture, right? Completely.
Justin: Mm-hmm.
Cindy Keyes: And so it is hard to go from this like entrepreneurial spirit into a big corporate way where you're not able to just go to the founder, you know, during a national sales meeting and sit down and talk to them. Right? Like
Justin: Right.
Cindy Keyes: you're just not able to do that. And there's so many red tape to get ideas and things to go through. Okay.
Justin: Right. You have stockholders. You have a you have a board and you know, the board is oftentimes staffed with people that don't even know anything about your business. You know, and that's
Cindy Keyes: No, no.
Justin: that's my nightmare. Like I I wake up like you know my work nightmares are now like, ugh, I found myself in a a
Cindy Keyes: Hmm.
Justin: CEO at a company where I have a board where I don't even know or trust anyone on it and
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: I'm having to tap dance for them. Like, no. Not for me. I like I
Cindy Keyes: Yeah, yeah.
Justin: like what we're doing. It's like, hey, I want to talk to the co founder. I just give you a call. Right.
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: And like, hey, we've got a problem to solve. Let's just get after it. I would do that the rest of my life. Like
Cindy Keyes: Yeah, and be able to share with them what we've learned. I think that's been what's really great because you know, you look at the market and there's so many companies out there and so many brands, but there's only a very, very small handful that ends up having huge success, right? Becoming billion dollar companies, getting it acquired or becoming their own multi billion dollar entity. That's a very rare and that just shows you that there are certain things That you have to do right from the beginning to become that kind of big company. And some companies don't want to become that. And I admire those. Like there are some companies, especially in our space, who are still
Justin: Right.
Cindy Keyes: family owned and they just, you know, they grow organically. They're not looking for huge growth. They're not trying to jump in bed with private equity right away, you know, or or at all. They're trying to build something either for their family as A legacy, or for for it just you know, that's their business. And I absolutely admire those kind of companies.
Justin: Yeah. Well I and I do think yeah that pendulum has swung back a little bit to where people and you ask like, you know, what's in the mind of the Gen Z and and people younger than us and and I think what I see is a definitely a different attitude to to what success means. You know, like 'cause
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: they look at their parents and they're like, I don't wanna be burnt out, divorced, and like sure I have a a lake house and a boat, but like
Cindy Keyes: You're never using it.
Justin: w you know, also, you know, had a bypass surgery and like, you know, I'm on
Cindy Keyes: Mm-hmm.
Justin: my third wife and you know, like I I do think you look at some of the some of the kids who've worked for me and and they're okay like taking a couple months off and like bouncing from hostel to hostel like to go see the world. And I'm like, you only get one life, yeah. Like, you know,
Cindy Keyes: Yeah. Yeah.
Justin: like look, if I hired you to do something I need you to do to do it. But
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: if you're gonna take off and like go see the mountains or whatever ex adventure. Yeah, you only get one life. Go go do it. You know,
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: and then come back, make some money to pay the bills and go go do your thing. Like again, we only get one life. I don't want look back and go, you know, I wish I had just had more stock and whatever. You know, like
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: like when you're under your deathbed you're gonna look back and be like, if only we would have, you know, had that merger, like
Cindy Keyes: I know.
Justin: Hey, you know, you're dead. Like,
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: who cares?
Cindy Keyes: Well, I think that's why I I do really enjoy what we do. and it's it's not it and it's really helping people find the right place for them and the right situation. And you know, I know we talk about independent ten ninety nine like all the time. It just and the reason we do that is is because so many of them are small and smaller
Justin: Yes.
Cindy Keyes: or they're new to the US market. So and so there's
Justin: Right. And that's the immediate opportunity for new products in almost every case. Like if you want something
Cindy Keyes: Exactly.
Justin: cool and new, crazy, weird, innovative, it's probably gonna be an independent to start. That's just a fact. Right.
Cindy Keyes: Yeah. But that doesn't mean it doesn't become you know, and and like the companies that I was with, I mean, it w they started out with just independent reps and and then grew into a larger it you know it wasn't overnight but I think the biggest thing is like you gotta you gotta tell your story first. you know last a couple days ago I met with a a a company it's an international company and I told them I was like listen like this product looks great your technology great but what is your story? Like that is what's going to like what do you want people to think and feel when they see your the name of your product and your
Justin: Yeah, yeah.
Cindy Keyes: brand before they even use it. That's the most important thing. And I think that's where,
Justin: Right. Well like
Cindy Keyes: you know, companies that excel, that's the reason why they excel. Their story is impactful.
Justin: Right. Yeah. It's it's clear how this is gonna benefit the customer. Right. It's clear the purpose for the product and the company is clear.
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: The ROI is clear. Here's what I'm going to invest in, here's what the reward is. And if all
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: of that is clear and you have a new product, like that's great. You all have great new products and expertly expertly What's the word? expertly crafted with ingredients that are proprietary to your company, like we get it, that's great. Right? But like how does your product help people? How how does it make money for the stakeholders, the rep, whoever that may be, the clinic,
Cindy Keyes: Yep. The clinics, yeah.
Justin: you know, if we're talking about a clinical product, And then if all that is clear, then your pathword your pathway is up, right?
Cindy Keyes: Yeah. But it's also made how it makes people feel. Like and people want to feel part of something. If you look at, you know, going back to like why Stanley Cups made the comeback that they did. They they that's the same Stanley Cup that's been around since the beginning of Stanley Cups. But they started
Justin: Sponsor.
Cindy Keyes: right, like they started by creating the What what would it say? The lifestyle. That if you have the Stanley Cup and and they had you know, with a certain demographic that if you had that, that means you were part of that lifestyle. So they sold the lifestyle before anything else. 'Cause
Justin: What it what is that certain demographic? Is that white ladies?
Cindy Keyes: I think it was that you know that
Justin: I mean, believe me, it found it found my family.
Cindy Keyes: what I think before all that when it first started and I believe it when they first started it was going after kind of the young, you know, pretty health conscious young woman. You know, the one that goes to Pilates and the one that goes to the beach and you know, like
Justin: And it's gonna stay hydrated.
Cindy Keyes: and they they stay hydrated. That's why they have these pretty, you know, so it was part of this lifestyle. And that's how so many companies, you know, grow. It's like they're creating that lifestyle that you can be part of this lifestyle if you just buy this product. And that's why the people
Justin: Let's make
Cindy Keyes: were fighting at Target whenever they had like a limited edition or something came out and the women were fighting over it.
Justin: This might be for a whole nother episode, but did they kill
Cindy Keyes: Huh.
Justin: Nalgene? Cause remember when that was the thing? When the Nalgene bottle, the big plastic ones that are like a jar, and you hook it onto your backpack. And I was like, I am not doing this. Like
Cindy Keyes: I don't
Justin: those came out, it was pre-Stanly. It was like Nalgene, and everyone's got one. And it was and they're
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: big and clunky and gross looking. And like I was like, I'm not doing it. I'm not gonna walk around with a canteen strapped to my back. Like ever you know what I'm talking about? And it's like a jar lid. And you
Cindy Keyes: Yeah. yes, yes, yes. I do I now I remember. Yes.
Justin: know, if the jar lid is off by one thread, it's gonna spill all over your laptop, you know? And like, but everyone
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: had one, and I was like, I don't want this. I
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: don't want this. And then and then it was tervis. Then it was tervis. All of a sudden we all have tervis and you have your college logo on the tervis.
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: Right?
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: That was like you go to bedbath and beyond and like just for the turvis.
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: And then I think Stanley killed them all.
Cindy Keyes: Yeah, they you know and they did such a great job. I think that was a great example of effective marketing. And and this is
Justin: Yeah.
Cindy Keyes: a theme most people don't get. And like even in the and obviously that's like the direct to consumer market, but even in the aesthetic space, a brand has to speak to a lifestyle a a feeling you're part of something a community whatever whatever it is that has to be first before your product and then though your product working and doing what it's supposed to do that's what gets people to keep coming back and get
Justin: Yeah.
Cindy Keyes: more of your product
Justin: And then the money comes.
Cindy Keyes: But to start, because I mean you look at you go to any trade show, how many exosome products are there? How many, you know, peptide skincare? How many this and that? Like there's so vitamin C, whatever it is, there's so many products out there. And they're all relatively the same. Some might smell better, some might have better packaging, whatever it is. But the ones that are gonna do well are the ones who sell a lifestyle. and sell a sell something more beyond just the product. Well, it looks like we lost our Justin. Maybe he didn't like not talking about Stanley. Well, we lost him. Don't know what happened with his internet. so I think I'm gonna close out this episode. We would definitely wanted to acknowledge this day. And for those of you who were there and experienced it and realize the impact it has on our society, you can actually see the moment when something changed in our world. and you know, we're here doing what we love to do, and that is adapting and growing and changing and helping. whether you're a company, a brand, and you're trying to grow and you need help and recruiting. and it doesn't matter if you're recruiting for a sales. person, a CEO, a sales admin, we are able to recruit for every single type of role. And if you are somebody who's not happy where you're at and you're looking for new opportunities just get onto our website at matrxcollective.com and or go straight to our portal which is mattrx dash sales dot com and And set up a profile and get into our system, and so we can make sure that we reach out to you first with all of the openings. And right now is the perfect time to do that because all the companies and they are all planning for 2027, and a lot of them are working with us to get new hires for the team next year. we should be starting some more heavier recruiting efforts in q4 so thanks for joining us and i think i'm gonna close this out myself since we appears to have lost justin thanks for joining us Remember to like, share, and subscribe to our channel. We appreciate it.
Justin: Yeah, I feel like this last twenty five years has been a wild ride. And a lot
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: different than what I imagined it might be like, if you asked me in like nineteen ninety nine, what do you think it'll be like when you're forty years old? We I and I don't think we ever imagined anything like nine eleven. That was that was a wild thing and I know I people make fun of like the Gen X and millennials who are like, We were there, man. Well, it was a traumatic experience. I mean, it was we're all trauma bonded by that. I mean, those of us lucky enough that to have not lost a life or lost a family member. But still, I mean it it affected everybody, clearly, right? So so
Cindy Keyes: Yeah. Do you still remember what you were doing, where you were at when that happened?
Justin: yeah. Yeah. I will it's interesting because I am forever trauma bonded to someone who I is now a family member. So I I was a senior in high school. Right, and just going about, you know, my happy happy little life of, you know, kind of top of the world, like you know, pretty fun. carefree experience as a as a high schooler, right? and the first plane hit As we were like driving up to school and and everyone was kind of hearing it on the radio. So we were all listening to pretty much the same, you know, morning drive DJs and and they're saying, Hey, something hit in New York. What is that? Like, that's weird. What an accident. Right. And so we came into our first period of class and my teacher was like the senior, you know, the senior level government economics. and politics teacher. And she was I would probably say like prob one of the easily one of the best teachers in the school. And that was like the class.
Cindy Keyes: Mm-hmm.
Justin: And for us, you know, 17, 18 year old kids, like she was the one who explained to us like how the government really works. And it was interesting, you know, and and President Bush was president at the time and he was the governor of Texas before that. And she despised him.
Cindy Keyes: Ha ha
Justin: You know, which was weird. Like in Texas, everyone's Republican. She was like in the Democrat county club and stuff, right? And but we were always listening with baited breath everything she had to say about politics because she really knew how it works. She knew, you know, from the local to state level. And anyway, we run into her class and we were like, Hey, something weird's going on in New York, like turn the TV on. She had like the rolling TV, right?
Cindy Keyes: Yes, I remember those.
Justin: Yeah, right. you usually roll those out when the sub when the sub is here, right? But like, we're like, turn it on. We turn the thing on and that second plane hit. We all we're all watching live. And we're just
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: you know, we're just looking at our teacher like and and she's got her coffee cup just like jaw dropped. And we were like, What is this? Yeah, like we're
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: looking at her like explain. You know, and she's like,
Cindy Keyes: Ha ha
Justin: dude, I do not know. Like this is this is something, right? And so we sat there, eyes glued to the TV, just jaws on the floor, and then it was like, Boom, then the Pentagon gets hit and other planes are missing and we're all just like glued to the floor or glue to the TV, jaws on the floor, like not just completely zoned into this. Yeah, n I mean, total silence. I mean the class of like rowdy kids, like just all glued to this thing. and then when those towers fell, we were just like my God, it's tragic, right? But interestingly, something I didn't know about that teacher is that later on I would meet her daughter and we
Cindy Keyes: Ha ha ha.
Justin: really hit it off And that lady is now my mother in law. I've been married for fifteen years to her daughter. And so every nine eleven, you know, when people are talking about
Cindy Keyes: Ha ha ha.
Justin: where were you, like she and I both look at each other and we were like, you know, we kind of rode that ride together. You know, so it's kinda interesting. Like we're kind of forever linked and trauma bonded to that and you know, I remember like ever we all remember those images and just as much as those images I remember my own future mother in law standing there in front of a bunch of kids and and this lady, she was the it teacher, she had all the answers. She's looking at us like, God help us. I have no idea what the hell this is,
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: but it's bad. So
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: Where were you where are you, Cindy? Surfin', California?
Cindy Keyes: Yeah. Well, I mean, I wasn't in high school because I'm much older than you. So I was like in my early twenties. I was actually working, I think, at the department store at that time. And I remember being asleep and then I get a call and somebody said, Turn on the TV and I was like, What? And you know, I mean I think it w when did I how yes it I think I was No, it kind of summer. Yeah, it's still considered summer, right? Right now. and yeah.
Justin: Yeah, it's definitely hot still.
Cindy Keyes: But I was still sleeping. I was like, okay. And and they said, you know, the s you know, s the twin tower fell. I was like, what? I didn't even this is how ditzy I was. I didn't even know what the Twin Towers. I was like, What? The what? And then I so I turned on the TV and I watched, I like, And then as I went on, I'm like I need to go to work. Like what is going on? And my cousin actually I don't know what company he worked for, maybe it was Morgan Stanley. I just knew he had one of those big hot shot you know, Wall Street type of jobs. And so of course the first thing that I thought of was him and was like, you know, mom, dad, like, did you call it, you know, then it's to make sure he's okay. And so, you know, we found out like he was, he wasn't there at the time. And so yeah, it was it was weird. I mean it was like it felt surreal because I mean obviously I was old enough to kind of understand a little bit more like what was going on. but yeah, I mean the and I I grew up in the eighties. So I watch a lot of like eighties movies and terrorism was always in that, but it was always like, you know, they hijacked planes, right? Do you remember all those old movies back in the days or like late eighties?
Justin: yeah, yeah.
Cindy Keyes: Yeah, it's like, you know, hijacking a plane was always what terrorists do, but it was always for ransom, right? It was like always a way to
Justin: Yeah.
Cindy Keyes: kind of get pay you know, money or or something.
Justin: Yeah, they weren't like using them as bombs. Right. No. Yeah. It was always
Cindy Keyes: No. Yeah. Well at least not in the movies, right? Yeah.
Justin: like, yeah, and then Bruce Willis is gonna come and get every g you know, kill each guy and get everyone out. Yeah, I mean. but yeah, we're
Cindy Keyes: Yeah, exactly. It's yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Justin: sitting there just yeah, just feeling like my pants are down, like we are just getting annihilated here. You know,
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: and like watching these videos and reflecting on it, you know, today as as people do, especially on like a big anniversary, I guess it's 25 years. you know, it brings me back to remember that even that that whole week was, you know, we don't feel safe.
Cindy Keyes: Weird. Yeah. Yeah.
Justin: We don't feel normal. We feel like we've all
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: been kicked in the in the mouth, right? Like and we're all looking up in the sky. Remember how like quiet the skies were and we're all just kind
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: of and then you do see a plane and you're like my gosh, where's that plane going? You know, like you finally saw
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: one and it's like it's not going anywhere. Like, you
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: know, like I remember in Texas too, they were like, you know, all stay away from pub public buildings and you know, for those of you who haven't been to Texas, they're like the buildings are like twenty feet tall. Like there's no
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: there's like three skyscrapers, you know, like a couple
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: in Dallas, couple like they're not there's no targets here, right? But But everyone was, you know, freaked out.
Cindy Keyes: Well, we didn't know what was going on. We didn't know what was happening, or like what was the end game. Like, you know, usually when
Justin: Yeah.
Cindy Keyes: it comes to hijacking or rant it's always like they want something, right? Like somebody wants money and we never in our I mean, never did we think it was really to destroy the the very fiber of our country. And, you know, I think when people started realizing that and just living through like the people who died from it and then how many people were missing and you know seeing videos of people kind you know falling out of these buildings
Justin: yeah.
Cindy Keyes: was crazy, right? And I think for the first
Justin: Yeah. Yeah, that to me the yeah, the the jumpers for me was the most gripping tr part of the tragedy. That and the firemen,
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: you know, like I don't know if you saw that one documentary where the firemen are in the lobby and you're hearing people slamming and every time it's like, you know, the firemen are looking up and then you hear the the beep of when a fireman stops breathing. Like when a fireman gets buried, like they that some alarm goes off so they can find him. And you're just hearing that beep beeping going off, like after the towers collapse, you hear nothing but
Cindy Keyes: Cheese.
Justin: beep and it's just like god I mean I'm getting getting goosebumps thinking about that. Like just how awful that is.
Cindy Keyes: I know. And the people that are out. Yeah, the people who got out, the people who were out on the streets, the people who are like, how do I like where do I go now? I mean I I can't
Justin: You know,
Cindy Keyes: imagine.
Justin: one of my friends who was in that room when we were watching the the whole disaster, ended up going to college in the Northeast and he met a girl whose dad survived.
Cindy Keyes: Wow.
Justin: and you know, he was a big guy and a bit, you know, businessman and a and a big man, you know, in stature. And I mean, he hoofed it down like eighty flights or something, helping people along the way, like grabbing whoever else they can, like and thank God got out before, you know,
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: and they and lived. And like that's that's crazy. You
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: know? All those all those stories are so crazy.
Cindy Keyes: Yeah, and I think the good thing that came out of that, like I you know, we never felt that kind of patriotism in a long time in our country where we really felt this desire to kind of be strong. And it is weird because I don't know, maybe it's just in the last decade Or it you know, patriotism for our country isn't that strong. And you look at other countries and even though some of them may not be capitalist countries, there it's just it's natural to have pride in your country, right? Patriotism. And you know, for for such a tragedy, like it did make us stronger as a country. Like we really did realize like we all experience the same thing regardless our skin color, regardless of you know our sexual orientation or you know anything. Like we were all Americans at that time and there was something attacking us. And that's what's kind of sad about our society as a whole. It's almost like we need something horrible to reunite us. Otherwise we just keep fighting within ourselves. You know?
Justin: Yeah.
Cindy Keyes: And it's like you watch these alien movies, right? Like, okay when the aliens are coming then it's like yeah yeah We all join together to fight the aliens. But then when everything's
Justin: Yeah.
Cindy Keyes: good, we're just finding every little excuse to fight against each other. You know? And then it's like we have COVID that happened, right? And then COVID just shut everybody off. Like don't
Justin: Yeah, I don't know if it's w yeah. I mean i it's interesting how quickly it goes back to all right, and now let's all point fingers at each other and blame each other. Yeah, I mean, you know, looking back on it, yeah, we were united. We were very you know, yeah, patriotic, nice to each other. Most people, I know, you know, some people had a different experience, some people They look a certain way, we're getting punched in the street and stuff, right?
Cindy Keyes: Yes. Yeah, actually that's very true.
Justin: you know, you think about that. There was not many people like that where I grew up, unfortunately, but You know, but a couple of years later, you know, some of some of my friends
Cindy Keyes: All right, back to it.
Justin: some of my friends went headlong right into, you know, Afghanistan and Iraq and because we're that age and they came back going, Yeah, no, it's all bullshit. You know? So,
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: you know, and and God bless them, like a lot of them are, you know, proud to serve and still proud to serve, but also going, Wait a minute.
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: You know, and so and then COVID I think is a funny example too. Like everyone was banging pots and pans for like nurses.
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: And then like I don't remember how much longer later, but then we're all going, you know, it's a lab leak, it's you know, the vaccine's gonna kill everyone, it's Trump's fault, it's Biden's fault, it's whoe you know it's China, no, it's not China, it's
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: Fauci. Like pretty quickly we were like kinda like assholes to each other. Pr right?
Cindy Keyes: Yeah. Well, but I mean you know what's crazy though? So like from twenty twenty and two thousand one is like less than twenty years. We but so much change in that twenty years, right?
Justin: Mm.
Cindy Keyes: Because I think back in two thousand one we Yeah, I know, we did have internet by then. I like, no, it was not that old. I was like No, because I was like trying
Justin: No, we had internet. Yeah, we had already had a
Cindy Keyes: to pre well that just shows how old I am because I I still remember dialogue. I don't
Justin: Yeah. But you know well, you know one thing well yeah, we we had internet, just it's not what it is now. We couldn't do stuff like this. We didn't have podcasts.
Cindy Keyes: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Justin: you know, I was thinking, you know, whenever I was looking at all these photos and videos today, you know, on the internet. I was thinking and I was reading a story about how teachers are teaching kids that were not born anywhere even near it, right? and some of the teachers even, some of the teachers that my wife works with were not even born yet when
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: 9-11 happened. And they're old enough to teach kids. But just to give you an idea how how much time has passed, but I was like, why don't I have any pictures? Why don't I have any anything?
Cindy Keyes: Mm-hmm.
Justin: And then I remember like, well, in 2001, we You know, some of us had Nokia phones in the pocket, but we weren't going around taking pictures of things. You would get a disposable camera at like a wedding.
Cindy Keyes: I think we had razors. Yeah.
Justin: Some people maybe had a razor. I didn't get my first razor 'til two thousand four, three, four.
Cindy Keyes: I think we had digital cameras by then. I think. Yeah, yeah.
Justin: We had those big clunky digital cameras, yeah. But like but it wasn't normal to go around and be like, Hey, let's take a selfie, like here's
Cindy Keyes: Thank you. Yeah.
Justin: here's all of us watching the disaster, you know, like
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: can you imagine like you know all the videos and footage and things that we see now, imagine if like everyone back then all had, you know, a ki a camera in their f in their pocket the whole
Cindy Keyes: my gosh. Yeah.
Justin: time. Like
Cindy Keyes: I think that was like a pivotal moment in our society because it was like it's like something changed, right? Like people changed, like everything changed. And then COVID, twenty years later, less than twenty years later, another thing that kind of changed culture. So we went from this like society where we were very, you know, patriotic and their unity and patriotism and then you know joining together and and now and then to COVID where we were all separated. We were kind of like like you were afraid to even kiss your grandma because you were afraid to kill them. You know?
Justin: Mm-hmm.
Cindy Keyes: Like it is it's so weird how in just that short time period. culture and society and what's normal and has changed so much.
Justin: Sure.
Cindy Keyes: And, you know, when we grew up, like what did we think about what did we think our life was gonna be like? It was like go to go to, you know, finish high school, go to college, get a job, buy house, have kids, put it save money in your four one K, retire, and then live a retired life like right
Justin: Yeah.
Cindy Keyes: that was what we thought was and but back
Justin: Right.
Cindy Keyes: then you could I mean I remember my uncle he worked for IBM for 30 years. It was just his one and only job and he just worked there. And then my other aunt and uncle same thing right and they were the typical you know they lived that life that you know that they came to America to pursue at that time. And then COVID made everyone like not want to work. And because people were also earning guinea money from the government for not working, for not doing anything. And then we were so scared of each other to be in person.
Justin: my gosh.
Cindy Keyes: Right? And You know, and I and I feel like so much has changed and then now we're kind of in a situation now where there's like wars going on, economy and and is it's all over the place. The price of gas is crazy, you know, the pri the interest rates, which you know, I think people were c talking you know, thought it was crazy that'd be like in the seven, eight I think did it go up to like seven, eight percent or something for interest rates, but
Justin: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Cindy Keyes: You know, back in the eighties when my parents bought our first home, it was like thirteen percent. But back then, yeah,
Justin: Which is insane.
Cindy Keyes: but back then homes were under a hundred thousand dollars. They weren't on average a million. So it's like it it's kinda c crazy.
Justin: Yeah, the the debt to income ratio for a normal family was a much more palatable thing, you know,
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: like so I don't know. I do think, you know, and it was a new century. I mean, I do think you know, whoever did that to us 'cause I don't think there's a a lot that's still clear of, you know but I think it was a message to like kind of like, hey, the the party is over. Meaning like your country's post World War Two like victory lap of like everyone's
Cindy Keyes: Mm.
Justin: doing pretty great. Everyone's economically doing well for the most part. I you know, I know I know people struggled, right? But like for the most part, like there's an interesting I don't know, I felt growing up in the eighties and nineties that like life is really good and we're on top. We are the number
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: one country, hands down. Now I had never been to any other countries back then,
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: right? But I think it was that shot to the face to go, bam, like you think you are, but maybe not, right? And like buckle up because it's gonna get weird. Yeah, we did. We did.
Cindy Keyes: But it's you believed it. Yeah. Yeah.
Justin: But you know, and that's being tested and I think, you know, no one ever came and tested us on our own shore, you know, in a while, right? Even Pearl Harbor, like, is in Hawaii, you know, it's like
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: vacation town.
Cindy Keyes: Well, when these are too good, you know, you you let your guard down. And I think that's it, it's like, you know, when it comes to enemies, wherever it whoever your enemies are and they're n they're looking for the long term. And they're looking to poke holes. And, you know, look at it. It's like if you leave your car unlocked and because you're like, I live in a safe neighborhood, you do that every day. One day, you you know, somebody might break into it. Right. It's just because you let your guard down, right? And so I think that's really what happened. But it just I think it just changed so many things because I know when I grew up The idea of small businesses and running your own business, like there's so many small businesses everywhere, right?
Justin: Mm-hmm.
Cindy Keyes: And we didn't have these big, huge malls. It was like just small businesses, like, you know, there'd be shopping centers, but they were all like individually owned. They weren't big name brands, right? It was like, yeah, they are like what Kmart or whatever back in the days. But it was
Justin: Yeah, we had Kmart. Yeah.
Cindy Keyes: like everybody then that was like the American dream for like especially for me and my family being immigrants, it was like coming to America for the opportunity. To build something, and my parents came and built something. And but through time, I think in the last you know, for 20 years, especially, it hyper accelerated where it was just the the consumption of small businesses, consumption of the middle class. And so now it's like this these big corporations. And I know we always kind of talk about corporate life, and I think I I think
Justin: Mm.
Cindy Keyes: it's like really clear that it's not corporate life that I think is bad, it's like it's a bureaucratic, toxic corporate life where the corporation is like a monster
Justin: Yes.
Cindy Keyes: and it sucks out, you know,
Justin: Yeah.
Cindy Keyes: the livelihood of people, right? Like those kind I mean, we have a corporation. Yeah.
Justin: Right. Like companies that exist only only with the sole mission to get bigger and make more money.
Cindy Keyes: And to take out other small businesses, right? It's like you're gonna have a business, you're gonna
Justin: Right. Yeah, it's destructive.
Cindy Keyes: take out like all of these small businesses, and then you hire people, but then they're so reliant on you that you know they can't just leave because you're the only big company in that neighborhood. I mean, you know, where we live there's obviously a lot of opportunities. Well, I mean, California's changing now too. All the big companies are leaving. So what's going to happen, you know, eventually. But yeah, and it's just like it just everything feels different. And I don't know if like the same and of course there's so many great companies out there. And even in our space, the aesthetic space, like there are so many great companies are doing great things where the, you know, the founders and And the leaders are passionate and they're excited. And the people who work there are really happy, right? Doing what they're doing. but then there's also on the flip side, you know, there's a lot that's that's changing where it just becomes a money grab. and people's, you know, like the people don't matter anymore. And that's that's kind of sad. Considering
Justin: Yeah.
Cindy Keyes: like when we grew up, it was like this this dream. And I and I wonder what the dream is for kids nowadays. Like, what is your dream? You know?
Justin: Right. I well I do think it's It's shifted because I think the message, I think the you know, the the dream when we were younger was hey, in this country, you know, you can get a good job, make good money, and like find your happiness, you know, like f create a fulfilling life for yourself and kind of like everything's taken care of, right? But I think as As business and technology accelerated to a degree where, you know, acquisition after acquisition and technology ramped and all of a sudden it was like, you know, all of these technologies. And I think, you know, I think technology plays a huge role in what we're talking about here. Because, you know, right around that time, you know, was when okay, everyone's now has websites, e-commerce. We already had the first dot com bubble, you know, which you know the AI bubble now like kind of reminds you of, right? and you know, corporate scandals like Enron and things like that were going on back then where you were like,
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: okay, so there's a lot of like, you know, white collar jobs where people are using this technology to steal from people,
Cindy Keyes: Mm-hmm.
Justin: right? And now we have this technology to connect, but we don't know how to disconnect. And so we saw a lot of people as this engine revved up, their souls unraveled. Like
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: it's not healthy. Even the best, if even if even if you love your job, if if you're getting a ding on your phone every 12 seconds, and you've got you never have inbox zero.
Cindy Keyes: I've given up on inbox zero.
Justin: You know, you're you're always I know, but you know you know what I mean though, like that overwhelming number, and the overwhelming stimulus and people just taking from you, right? And like there's an in my opinion, there's not enough money in the world that can make up for that peace.
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: For the peace of like standing on a beach and just listening to the waves.
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: Right? Like so I think we as our economic engine revved up and as our technology went into hyperdrive, we kinda lost our humanity a little bit. We lost our nature. We got away from it. Right? And when you talk about COVID I I do think a lot of people snapped out of it in COVID because we were forced to. Like, hey, no one's really working right now. But even like I know, I mean, you and me both were in like high pressure corporate roles when COVID hit. And I still, even if no one was working, I had the immense pressure of like, well, I must be moving the needle somehow. Right?
Cindy Keyes: Yeah, yeah.
Justin: I must be like training my people. I must be reaching out to customers and checking on them. I must be recruiting.
Cindy Keyes: Ha ha ha
Justin: I mean, I worked my tail off during COVID and my wife was looking at me like, what are you doing, dude?
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: And I talked to the owner of the company and they're like, I'm playing golf. Like everyone else who was an absolute workaholic, like, they were like, We're at the beach. Like, we're doing puzzles. Like,
Cindy Keyes: Yeah. Yeah.
Justin: we're drinking all day. And I'm like, sending like, what's wrong with like
Cindy Keyes: Well that's how but that's how we grew up though. Like I think you know, the the generation are you wait, are you Gen X or do you Gen X border?
Justin: I'm I'm an ol I'm what we call an older millennial. Right. There's a difference too. Like my sister's a younger millennial and she's only like
Cindy Keyes: Okay. In older millennial. Okay. But yeah. Yes.
Justin: five years younger, but there's a difference. There's a difference. Like some
Cindy Keyes: Yeah. So you're closer to the Gen X. Well I think
Justin: of them like she had internet for every research paper she ever did. I had
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: to like go to the library and like get an encyclopedia, you know, like
Cindy Keyes: In a in a microfiche or what was that what it's called?
Justin: Look at the microfiche. Yeah, those little yeah. Those are fun. I those are fun.
Cindy Keyes: But I know. Yeah. Or just having, you know, Star Sixty Nine on your phone or is it Star Sixty Nine or Star Six Seven? Or like call back the last person or or
Justin: Yeah, Star sixty nine was called back, right? Or yeah.
Cindy Keyes: like switching from one to another, like, hold on, I'll be right back, and then you jump on to and then you're still with the other person.
Justin: Yeah. Beep beep. Hello.
Cindy Keyes: gosh. Yeah, but I think we grew up, you know, we all like For me getting a corporate job was like the dream. It was the dream. It was what we it was like you go to college and it was a dream to get a corporate job. And you know, getting a job at L'Oreal was a dream, you know, in every sense of the word. And it was a good company, and it still is a good company. I mean, it's like it develops and it's created the structure where it was it built and trained people. It's like a machine, right? Like once you kind of go through this machine, you come out of it. And it's so true because I every L'Oreal person I talk to, we we have similarities in the way that we
Justin: Mm-hmm.
Cindy Keyes: work and we talk about how we always know somebody that came out of L'Oreal because there's just something about them that we just
Justin: Mm-hmm.
Cindy Keyes: know because it's like you've gone through that machine. And and it was so good in that that part of your life, which is early on in your career, right? You're being trained. And then you're able to kind of move on and and and do other things
Justin: Yeah.
Cindy Keyes: and but I and sometimes I feel like now I mean and I don't know any people who are young I mean young enough right now who are just going into companies like L'Oreal to see if it's even the same as it was back in the day, you know, or has have they changed as well. all but all we hear is from the side of companies that get acquired by L'Oreal and how much it's changed is for them because
Justin: Right.
Cindy Keyes: a lot of companies and I won't say any names like you know
Justin: I know. I do I do feel like, you know, the big corp because right, like talking to our dads and granddads is like that's a he was an IBM man, you know. and he he worked at Ford, you know, like his whole life.
Cindy Keyes: Yeah. Yeah. Or Boeing or this. Yeah.
Justin: Yeah, like you had like eight big companies and then everyone else was a small business, right?
Cindy Keyes: Mm-hmm.
Justin: Or a ranch or whatever, right? Like a restaurant, ranch, tri cleaners, right?
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: Most people I talk to that work at a big company now, it's because that big company bought the company they started with. You know, like
Cindy Keyes: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Justin: like you're talking about, like, you're at L'Oreal. Well, I started at, you know, Jimmy's Jimmy's
Cindy Keyes: Whatever, yeah.
Justin: skincare and it got we got immediately swallowed up. And I'm just now like, you know, holding on, holding on, hope it hope they'll hope they'll keep me around.
Cindy Keyes: Yeah. Well and I think that's also hard because if they were acquired, they have to adapt to like a certain way of doing business very quickly. And we know that a big company, corporate company and the way a small startup that grows, it's a totally different environment and different culture, right? Completely.
Justin: Mm-hmm.
Cindy Keyes: And so it is hard to go from this like entrepreneurial spirit into a big corporate way where you're not able to just go to the founder, you know, during a national sales meeting and sit down and talk to them. Right? Like
Justin: Right.
Cindy Keyes: you're just not able to do that. And there's so many red tape to get ideas and things to go through. Okay.
Justin: Right. You have stockholders. You have a you have a board and you know, the board is oftentimes staffed with people that don't even know anything about your business. You know, and that's
Cindy Keyes: No, no.
Justin: that's my nightmare. Like I I wake up like you know my work nightmares are now like, ugh, I found myself in a a
Cindy Keyes: Hmm.
Justin: CEO at a company where I have a board where I don't even know or trust anyone on it and
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: I'm having to tap dance for them. Like, no. Not for me. I like I
Cindy Keyes: Yeah, yeah.
Justin: like what we're doing. It's like, hey, I want to talk to the co founder. I just give you a call. Right.
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: And like, hey, we've got a problem to solve. Let's just get after it. I would do that the rest of my life. Like
Cindy Keyes: Yeah, and be able to share with them what we've learned. I think that's been what's really great because you know, you look at the market and there's so many companies out there and so many brands, but there's only a very, very small handful that ends up having huge success, right? Becoming billion dollar companies, getting it acquired or becoming their own multi billion dollar entity. That's a very rare and that just shows you that there are certain things That you have to do right from the beginning to become that kind of big company. And some companies don't want to become that. And I admire those. Like there are some companies, especially in our space, who are still
Justin: Right.
Cindy Keyes: family owned and they just, you know, they grow organically. They're not looking for huge growth. They're not trying to jump in bed with private equity right away, you know, or or at all. They're trying to build something either for their family as A legacy, or for for it just you know, that's their business. And I absolutely admire those kind of companies.
Justin: Yeah. Well I and I do think yeah that pendulum has swung back a little bit to where people and you ask like, you know, what's in the mind of the Gen Z and and people younger than us and and I think what I see is a definitely a different attitude to to what success means. You know, like 'cause
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: they look at their parents and they're like, I don't wanna be burnt out, divorced, and like sure I have a a lake house and a boat, but like
Cindy Keyes: You're never using it.
Justin: w you know, also, you know, had a bypass surgery and like, you know, I'm on
Cindy Keyes: Mm-hmm.
Justin: my third wife and you know, like I I do think you look at some of the some of the kids who've worked for me and and they're okay like taking a couple months off and like bouncing from hostel to hostel like to go see the world. And I'm like, you only get one life, yeah. Like, you know,
Cindy Keyes: Yeah. Yeah.
Justin: like look, if I hired you to do something I need you to do to do it. But
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: if you're gonna take off and like go see the mountains or whatever ex adventure. Yeah, you only get one life. Go go do it. You know,
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: and then come back, make some money to pay the bills and go go do your thing. Like again, we only get one life. I don't want look back and go, you know, I wish I had just had more stock and whatever. You know, like
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: like when you're under your deathbed you're gonna look back and be like, if only we would have, you know, had that merger, like
Cindy Keyes: I know.
Justin: Hey, you know, you're dead. Like,
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: who cares?
Cindy Keyes: Well, I think that's why I I do really enjoy what we do. and it's it's not it and it's really helping people find the right place for them and the right situation. And you know, I know we talk about independent ten ninety nine like all the time. It just and the reason we do that is is because so many of them are small and smaller
Justin: Yes.
Cindy Keyes: or they're new to the US market. So and so there's
Justin: Right. And that's the immediate opportunity for new products in almost every case. Like if you want something
Cindy Keyes: Exactly.
Justin: cool and new, crazy, weird, innovative, it's probably gonna be an independent to start. That's just a fact. Right.
Cindy Keyes: Yeah. But that doesn't mean it doesn't become you know, and and like the companies that I was with, I mean, it w they started out with just independent reps and and then grew into a larger it you know it wasn't overnight but I think the biggest thing is like you gotta you gotta tell your story first. you know last a couple days ago I met with a a a company it's an international company and I told them I was like listen like this product looks great your technology great but what is your story? Like that is what's going to like what do you want people to think and feel when they see your the name of your product and your
Justin: Yeah, yeah.
Cindy Keyes: brand before they even use it. That's the most important thing. And I think that's where,
Justin: Right. Well like
Cindy Keyes: you know, companies that excel, that's the reason why they excel. Their story is impactful.
Justin: Right. Yeah. It's it's clear how this is gonna benefit the customer. Right. It's clear the purpose for the product and the company is clear.
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: The ROI is clear. Here's what I'm going to invest in, here's what the reward is. And if all
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: of that is clear and you have a new product, like that's great. You all have great new products and expertly expertly What's the word? expertly crafted with ingredients that are proprietary to your company, like we get it, that's great. Right? But like how does your product help people? How how does it make money for the stakeholders, the rep, whoever that may be, the clinic,
Cindy Keyes: Yep. The clinics, yeah.
Justin: you know, if we're talking about a clinical product, And then if all that is clear, then your pathword your pathway is up, right?
Cindy Keyes: Yeah. But it's also made how it makes people feel. Like and people want to feel part of something. If you look at, you know, going back to like why Stanley Cups made the comeback that they did. They they that's the same Stanley Cup that's been around since the beginning of Stanley Cups. But they started
Justin: Sponsor.
Cindy Keyes: right, like they started by creating the What what would it say? The lifestyle. That if you have the Stanley Cup and and they had you know, with a certain demographic that if you had that, that means you were part of that lifestyle. So they sold the lifestyle before anything else. 'Cause
Justin: What it what is that certain demographic? Is that white ladies?
Cindy Keyes: I think it was that you know that
Justin: I mean, believe me, it found it found my family.
Cindy Keyes: what I think before all that when it first started and I believe it when they first started it was going after kind of the young, you know, pretty health conscious young woman. You know, the one that goes to Pilates and the one that goes to the beach and you know, like
Justin: And it's gonna stay hydrated.
Cindy Keyes: and they they stay hydrated. That's why they have these pretty, you know, so it was part of this lifestyle. And that's how so many companies, you know, grow. It's like they're creating that lifestyle that you can be part of this lifestyle if you just buy this product. And that's why the people
Justin: Let's make
Cindy Keyes: were fighting at Target whenever they had like a limited edition or something came out and the women were fighting over it.
Justin: This might be for a whole nother episode, but did they kill
Cindy Keyes: Huh.
Justin: Nalgene? Cause remember when that was the thing? When the Nalgene bottle, the big plastic ones that are like a jar, and you hook it onto your backpack. And I was like, I am not doing this. Like
Cindy Keyes: I don't
Justin: those came out, it was pre-Stanly. It was like Nalgene, and everyone's got one. And it was and they're
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: big and clunky and gross looking. And like I was like, I'm not doing it. I'm not gonna walk around with a canteen strapped to my back. Like ever you know what I'm talking about? And it's like a jar lid. And you
Cindy Keyes: Yeah. yes, yes, yes. I do I now I remember. Yes.
Justin: know, if the jar lid is off by one thread, it's gonna spill all over your laptop, you know? And like, but everyone
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: had one, and I was like, I don't want this. I
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: don't want this. And then and then it was tervis. Then it was tervis. All of a sudden we all have tervis and you have your college logo on the tervis.
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: Right?
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: That was like you go to bedbath and beyond and like just for the turvis.
Cindy Keyes: Yeah.
Justin: And then I think Stanley killed them all.
Cindy Keyes: Yeah, they you know and they did such a great job. I think that was a great example of effective marketing. And and this is
Justin: Yeah.
Cindy Keyes: a theme most people don't get. And like even in the and obviously that's like the direct to consumer market, but even in the aesthetic space, a brand has to speak to a lifestyle a a feeling you're part of something a community whatever whatever it is that has to be first before your product and then though your product working and doing what it's supposed to do that's what gets people to keep coming back and get
Justin: Yeah.
Cindy Keyes: more of your product
Justin: And then the money comes.
Cindy Keyes: But to start, because I mean you look at you go to any trade show, how many exosome products are there? How many, you know, peptide skincare? How many this and that? Like there's so vitamin C, whatever it is, there's so many products out there. And they're all relatively the same. Some might smell better, some might have better packaging, whatever it is. But the ones that are gonna do well are the ones who sell a lifestyle. and sell a sell something more beyond just the product. Well, it looks like we lost our Justin. Maybe he didn't like not talking about Stanley. Well, we lost him. Don't know what happened with his internet. so I think I'm gonna close out this episode. We would definitely wanted to acknowledge this day. And for those of you who were there and experienced it and realize the impact it has on our society, you can actually see the moment when something changed in our world. and you know, we're here doing what we love to do, and that is adapting and growing and changing and helping. whether you're a company, a brand, and you're trying to grow and you need help and recruiting. and it doesn't matter if you're recruiting for a sales. person, a CEO, a sales admin, we are able to recruit for every single type of role. And if you are somebody who's not happy where you're at and you're looking for new opportunities just get onto our website at matrxcollective.com and or go straight to our portal which is mattrx dash sales dot com and And set up a profile and get into our system, and so we can make sure that we reach out to you first with all of the openings. And right now is the perfect time to do that because all the companies and they are all planning for 2027, and a lot of them are working with us to get new hires for the team next year. we should be starting some more heavier recruiting efforts in q4 so thanks for joining us and i think i'm gonna close this out myself since we appears to have lost justin thanks for joining us Remember to like, share, and subscribe to our channel. We appreciate it.
