Tresor Gashonga | From RWF 1.4 Million to Hundreds of Millions in Revenue

WEBVTT
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What did it say?
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A long form.
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A lot of young people dream of starting a business.
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They wait for more money, a better idea, the right connections, or the perfect time.
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But every now and then, someone starts anyway.
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My guest today on the Longform Podcast is Trezor Gashonga.
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At just 27 years old, Trezor is the founder of Inchuti Foods, one of Rwanda's fastest growing food companies.
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Starting with just 1.4 million Rwandan francs, he has built a business that now works with over 100 farmers, employs dozens of people, and has grown into a company generating hundreds of millions of francs in annual revenue.
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But this conversation isn't really about chili sauce.
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It's about entrepreneurship.
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How you identify an opportunity, how you build a product people actually want, how you survive the difficult early years, and how a young Grandin can create real value through discipline, innovation, and persistence.
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Because if you're trying to build something meaningful, someone has to show you how it's actually done.
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After a couple of months of trying to get you onto the long form, you're finally sitting in front of me.
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Welcome.
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Thank you.
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Thank you for hiding me.
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Now, I first got to know you as you a few years ago.
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I think I'd gone to visit a friend of mine at North Sken.
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And I remember you you were walking around with a backpack on.
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And you introduced yourself and you pulled out this little bottle of hot sauce and said, Oh, my name is Shizo, I have this hot sauce.
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It's called Inshuti.
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Okay.
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So I sat down with you and we had a conversation, and I I remember us sitting down, talking, and what I remember from that day was just how much how concentrated you were on the conversation.
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Yeah.
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And I remember thinking, this kid, this young man, he if he continues with his focus, he's going places.
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And now you're here, it's been what three, four years?
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Yeah.
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You know, you were what 23 then, maybe 22.
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Yeah.
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And now you have a big company that's doing amazing things.
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So before I even start, I just want to say congratulations, good job.
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Yeah, thank you, thank you.
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Listen, man, this is a you know a full circle moment for me.
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Because um, I remember starting out, yeah, if I remember well, back in 2022, late 2022.
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Yeah, we just met.
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I was really like super hyped about this you know entrepreneurship journey.
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I just, you know, started off my company.
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And uh, I mean, I was really like open to meet people, and uh, I was very much lucky to meet you and and and your friend, and then you know, after how many years now?
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Three, almost four.
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Yeah, here we are.
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You know, I'm seated here with you.
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No, I actually remember you wanted to give it to me for free to like try it.
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And I said, no, no, no, don't give it to me for free because you need the money.
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Yeah.
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Sold it to someone's like, what's wrong with this man?
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Just giving away free things.
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Anyway, you you started your business, you started in Shitty Foods with 1.4 million francs.
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Yeah.
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Now, most people would look at that amount of money and conclude that that is not enough capital to build anything meaningful that actually makes sense.
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What did you see that other people were not able to see?
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Actually, if you think about it, it's it's it was actually lesser than that money in the beginning.
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How much was it?
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I mean, uh it kind of like started off as just an idea.
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I was really like much excited about uh entrepreneurship.
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And then I remember I was um sitting at home with uh my young brother.
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Basically, you know, if I could maybe take you back, because it's like my basically like my journey and how it started, it's it was just like a continuous journey that kept adding up.
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It was just I was I could see something in that that was basically happening in my life, and then I think about like why is this happening, right?
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Because it actually started back home where I was born and raised in Gwama, Ghana.
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You know, I've grown up seeing you know farmers experiencing, you know, farming life, and then uh me growing around them and uh seeing you know different struggles they go through.
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It kind of like made me excited about you know agriculture, and I started also actually, you know, work with them in different ways, especially on the on the on the end, the end of the supply chain, which is essentially market access, right?
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I was very much excited, and I was um I just got graduated and in my college, and I was I was just back home trying to help farm access the market, and then I made this farmer.
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She's named Alice, she had produced over 10 metric tons of chili, and she was expecting to get a decent buy for her produce, right?
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And uh she was a matter of five, and and they were used of me of uh actually helping them access the market, right?
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And then, but that time was a bit different because uh her produce had matured enough, almost about to load, and uh I kind of like was pressured to actually find a solution, right?
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I tried to talk to multiple buyers that I had in my network, and I couldn't actually find one because we are in low season, and then they couldn't buy from us because they also didn't have a way to save the product, right?
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And then I was like, okay, now what's happening now?
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What should we do about it?
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So basically, if if if I would take you back, I didn't actually start with that 1 million point four.
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Instead of trying to figure out like how to actually have this farmer not lose her produce, right?
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So, and then I remember like before we know it, because you know, like uh, you know, this fresh produces are so uh perishable, right?
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Tell me about it.
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Yeah.
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So here's a little story, right?
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So I was in Rua Magana and um I talked to the farmer, and then I was like, okay, now what you're gonna do, you're going to give me an access to your produce, and then we see how you can transform it.
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Because before we know it, 60% already had gone to waste because uh they are perishable, and then they're actually basically going to waste.
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And then 40% that was remaining is what we are trying to kind of like recover so that it she doesn't actually lose her produce, right?
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And her investment.
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And then, like, okay, now what if we actually uh dry these chilies, then we can get find a buyer later on, right?
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And then we couldn't also find a buyer for the dry chili.
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For the dry chili per se, because the variety for the dry chili, you may mean maybe if I would take you into the actual technical part, the farmer had produced the variety that is called um uh Africa Bad Eyes chili.
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And then, and then, whereas the dry chili is is not that exactly variety.
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And then drying that chili, we couldn't actually find the buyer for the dry chili because they were investing in that variety.
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And then we're like, okay, now what should we do?
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Then I was like, okay, now let's figure out how we transform this chilies and we uh transform them into a chili powder.
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And then I remember I had, you know, like so many sacks of you know of dry chili at home.
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And uh, you know, trying to actually, you know, fill them in the drawers and uh trying to find the buyers in the in the supermarket because I kept asking myself, like, no, like there is a fundamental problem that is going in the chili barrier chain right now, if this is what is happening.
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And then I tried to take the product to Indian shops.
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I was basically like, you know, uh pitching the product at the time to several supermarkets here.
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But one thing I realized is like the markets weren't ready for the the the chili powder.
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And then I was So how did you transform?
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Because I understand the transformation from the wet chili, I guess, the fresh chili, into dry chili, right?
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You put it out in the sun.
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Then how did you then transform the dry chili into chili powder?
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Did you buy a machine?
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Was there a machine that you got access to?
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What was the process?
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So basically, okay, I'm actually the food scientist by profession.
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Okay.
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I did agriculture engineering in the department of um food processing, you know, at IPRC in San Zi.
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And uh I that specific, you know, background kind of also gave me a motivation to actually go through it.
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But also on another hand, uh I really had my auntie who were really like excited to see me actually try out different things because I always told her so many ideas that I had and uh trying to venture into multiple stars.
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And then she gave me an access to her her brand now.
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Because if I'm gonna be honest with you, yeah, I was I was I was actually living in what we call Get Hope in here in Kigadi, in Kanombe.
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I mean Yikondo with my young brother because going, I was studying at uh URR, and then I was actually living with him, right?
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And then I was like, oh no, I don't actually have a blender home.
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Like, where should I find it?
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I went and picked the idea to my auntie, and it was like, yeah, if you want, you can actually use it.
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And then uh that is exactly the machine that I was using in the beginning.
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Trying to see, it's like, okay, now how do you actually transform this chili, dried chili into chili powder?
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So and yeah.
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And then how about the packaging?
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Because now you've told me how you because we always talk about what are the issues within our food processing.
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The issue of packaging keeps coming back.
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Yeah.
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So after you dried it in your aunt's blender, yeah, where did you pack it?
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What where did you pack the dried chili?
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Yeah.
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Uh it was kind of amazing.
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Uh listen, I I was I was go I was collecting in uh in my neighborhood, you know, different jars of mayonnaise, and uh at some point also collecting other different bottles of of liquors and uh trying to actually have something that can actually use because like I literally didn't have any idea of how I was gonna navigate.
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And then I was trying to use anything that is around me to actually kind of like come up with uh a proof of concept.
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And yeah, I actually used uh the the gels of mayonnaise, and it was the one that was feeling it and then trying to actually take it to the supermarket, and then I remember as soon as I got the first proof of concept, or basically the product on the on the market.
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The first reaction was the guy, an Indian guy, was like, come on now, bro, like that packaging is not it.
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Like it's not really it's not really like really good.
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And I was also thinking of like uh other options, uh trying to use like the satchel pouches for it to be a little bit presentable, you see what I mean?
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So that is kind of like how I come up with uh basically the solution for the packaging.
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But moving forward, then uh I think for me, I'm very understanding person.
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If a person who knows me, it's like I really want I I want to listen more and uh act later.
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And uh every every situation and uh every moment was just a learning, you know, opportunity for me.
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Right.
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And if I went to a supermarket and told me like, hey, you don't love this product, uh, we would actually love this this this kind of product.
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I'm like, okay, now what should we take?
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What should I actually take from this, right?
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And uh I remember as soon as I realized that uh the market weren't ready for the uh chili, the chili powder, and I was like, no, build on the experience that I have and uh what I've heard about Ron and Chili.
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Run and chili is a big thing on the global market, if you think about it.
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And I was like, okay, now uh I gotta know what is actually happening.
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I remember I was so lucky to be in the program that's called Tourism Inc.
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by ASP at the time.
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And there were a group of people there, basic entrepreneurs like me.
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During that period, I was I just had a chance to actually do a research and go and ask them, like, hey, this is what is happening with me.
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Like, what do you think about chili?
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Which kind of product do you guys love?
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And then they kind of like started to give me ideas about what they think really good chili product is.
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You see what I mean?
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And then I was also talking to multiple chefs, trying to understand, to understand uh the product really well.
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And uh and that is also how I actually met you, I remember very well, because that's when we also started to talk about you know different flavors about chili, and uh I think like at the time I was pretty much invested into understanding like how the people actually use chili in uh uh different uh dining adventures or culinary adventures so that we could actually make something exciting about it.
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So so then later during that program that into, we just had an opportunity to get to get funded.
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It was a prototype fund.
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I think that was like the most mind that I have had in my life.
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Yeah.
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I was like, hey, what?
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I was like, now I'm going to build like a big factor.
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Yeah I was so crazy at the time.
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I was super, super excited to see like what can I actually do with a little that I get to actually you know do something big out of it, right?
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And but I think for me, like my drive was uh was pretty much about like, okay, I know like entrepreneurship journey is is so tough.
00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:54.319
It's like like navigating is is really difficult in the actual sense, but I was very much invested in figuring out like what's next in the but you know in in the due time that I have or during the time that I had at the time.
00:19:54.559 --> 00:19:56.880
And yeah, that's that's pretty much it.
00:19:57.119 --> 00:20:03.440
I guess I guess for me, my my question was more about trying to understand what opportunities.
00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:06.160
So you've spoken about the problem, right?
00:20:06.319 --> 00:20:09.359
And the problem being there's waste.
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Because that's that's the fundamental issue that we have as farmers.
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And I I know because I also do a bit of farming, my parents do farming.
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Literally, almost every person in every household in Rwanda has an uncle, aunt, parent, cousin who's in farming, and all of them complain about the same thing.
00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:28.319
Yeah.
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Prices and waste.
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Yeah.
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And and so I understand where you come from in terms of like seeing that problem.
00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:41.839
What I think is interesting for me is everyone sees the problem.
00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:42.559
Yeah.
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What in you made you actually act on the problem?
00:20:51.279 --> 00:20:54.559
Because most like you get like everyone sees it.
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You right?
00:20:56.079 --> 00:21:06.160
It's not rocket science that okay, we need to move from fresh to things that will last a bit longer on the shelf.
00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:13.200
Everyone, when I talk to people, it's usually like, oh, we don't have money.
00:21:13.519 --> 00:21:13.920
Right?
00:21:14.079 --> 00:21:21.119
We don't we're not able to, you know, uh build these big factories.
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Yeah.
00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:35.920
But you did not let the conversation that a lot of Rondans have about processing, food processing, you did not let that problem stop you from moving forward.
00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:44.960
Why is why was why was your head, why was your brain working differently?
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Where does it come from?
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So I think it was really like personal for me at the time because like those are my people, like those are like farmers that are.
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Have grown up seeing, right?
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And I experiencing them facing such challenges.
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And it's kind of something that kind of like really like pissed me off.
00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:14.880
I was like, no, there is something that needs to be done.
00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:15.440
Right.
00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:16.799
And I can do it.
00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:18.799
Yeah, and I can do it, you know.
00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:21.279
I told you a little bit about my background.
00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:33.839
I feel like uh I was so lucky at the time facing that problem, but also actually having a little bit of knowledge and the background into, you know, for full processing.
00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:43.200
And uh I I felt and um I agreed with myself that I can actually do it and uh see potentially what would happen later, right?
00:22:43.839 --> 00:22:51.759
But I think, in my opinion, I wanted to bridge the gap.
00:22:52.079 --> 00:23:02.160
Because it's like, you know, the the the the agricultural is is so diverse and there are so many things happening, right?
00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:26.240
And then if if you if if you see uh how the chili value chain is is is structured, it's like their chili had adopted random land, like big time, like but then the local consumption for the chili is not also high based on the number of chilies that are grown here on the local market, right?
00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:33.200
And then and then the majority of the produce is exported.
00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:41.200
And then what happens if the export is not working for the fresh chilies?
00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:42.160
Yes, right?
00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:47.519
It's like okay, now we need to find some sort of like internal solutions for it.
00:23:48.319 --> 00:24:00.960
Because then it's like farmers getting an opportunity to see a crop that they can grow and make money, that is the number one step.
00:24:01.759 --> 00:24:07.119
But then how do we actually sustain that value chain?
00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:17.359
So for me, I was very much invested to figure out it's like how how do we find some internal solution instead of farmers wasting their produce.
00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:20.079
And then how do we first of all add value?
00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:41.599
Because it's like, okay, now if you add the value to chili in terms of like uh extending the shave, the shelf life, now if the export market is not working for the first chilies, now you can actually export the product later on as uh as a bottled product with an extended shelf life, then the farmers can benefit from it.
00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:42.319
All right?
00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:55.279
So for me, I was I was I was trying to figure out how do we actually bring a sustainable solution for it, and then and then farmers can benefit from it.
00:24:55.519 --> 00:25:05.519
But also, on the other hand, because running culinary experience in the culinary landscape is growing like crazy.
00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:06.000
Right?
00:25:06.079 --> 00:25:11.119
There's you know, hospitality is it's a big thing, tourism is a big thing.
00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:19.119
Now this brings different cultures and different people's uh tastes and preferences, different dishes and stuff.
00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:33.920
Now we've got to figure out like how are we going to blend these dining cultural differences into our Ronda's local flavors, right?
00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:39.200
So and then for me, I was basically trying to bridge these gaps.
00:25:39.599 --> 00:25:40.160
Yeah.
00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:43.279
And you're trying to bridge this gap.
00:25:44.319 --> 00:25:49.440
So listen, let me let me just uh from my own curiosity.
00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:50.240
Yeah.
00:25:50.880 --> 00:25:56.559
So you get a grant of a million francs, 1.4 million.
00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:03.920
Today you have turnover of hundreds of millions per year.
00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:09.440
How do you come from one to the other, right?
00:26:09.599 --> 00:26:15.920
How do you get from one million to three million, from three million to four million?
00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:20.160
Walk us through as much as you can.
00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:22.559
What were the what were the first steps?
00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:27.200
If I was to come up and talk to you and say, listen, I want to be like you.
00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:35.200
I want to understand your path, and I also have one and a half million francs.
00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:40.319
Okay, right, because of inflation, maybe let's make it two two and a half million francs.
00:26:40.480 --> 00:26:40.799
Yeah.
00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:41.839
Right?
00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:43.440
What should I do?
00:26:44.559 --> 00:26:45.119
Yeah.
00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:45.519
Okay.
00:26:46.240 --> 00:26:50.480
That is uh kind of talk question in actual sense.
00:26:50.559 --> 00:26:59.279
But for me, like what I did was with that money, because in reality, is it's not that big of a money, right?
00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:01.519
But but it made a difference.
00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:11.200
For me, uh, first of all, I learned that the first thing that I needed was coming up with a proof of concept.
00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:21.440
It's like and then after coming up with the proof of concept, because that's that's that's the first step in in any entrepreneurship journey for everybody.
00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:27.920
And coming up with the proof of concept, it's like, how do I get the market to test the product?
00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:34.960
That is why, you know, at the time I was everywhere I was going, I had like a bag full of host sources.
00:27:35.119 --> 00:27:38.720
It's like I wanted people to test my product and give me some feedback.
00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:42.240
Inasmuch as it did.
00:27:43.599 --> 00:27:57.759
You know, because people, you know, gave me products, and gave me feedbacks about the product, how it felt like, and then the next step was to actually get the product market fit, right?
00:27:58.240 --> 00:28:11.440
And with that money, the first thing I was doing with it was actually getting that product market fit, getting the basic equipment that are not expensive.
00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:12.799
Like what?
00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:17.519
So um was blender, was uh just a normal blender.
00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:23.279
A normal, a normal, I remember bought a brand of, you know, I've been using my auntie's brender for some time.
00:28:23.839 --> 00:28:30.240
And uh I mean I'm I'm afraid that it got others, uh I kept using it.
00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:40.799
But I bought like uh I bought a blender of 200,000 running run and five, it's close to like$120.
00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:44.799
And uh I bought two packaging.
00:28:44.880 --> 00:29:11.440
Now like the packaging also started to uh to improve a little bit because it's like now it came from uh where I was just using like a recycled, you know, glass glass jars and glass glass bottles for for the liquors, and then I started to buy the actual uh packaging, like my my my my my own packaging, if I can call that song.
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:12.799
Where do you buy it from?
00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:15.440
I was buying it from a supply in Yabugogo.
00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:16.400
Oh, fantastic!
00:29:16.559 --> 00:29:17.039
Yeah.
00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:22.000
So and then it, you know, it gave me the packaging.
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:29.039
Now I'm like, okay, now how do I actually create this the product after getting people's feedbacks?
00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:38.480
And then like literally every feedback that I was getting, I was trying to tackle one by one to see how we actually improve the product, right?
00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:39.839
Because that is the first thing.
00:29:39.920 --> 00:29:43.359
It's like how do we ensure that we get a product market fit?
00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:47.200
Because the product market fit in our context came in different ways.
00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:53.920
One, it was basically the user experience, the packaging, and the packaging was a big thing.
00:29:54.160 --> 00:29:56.799
And uh the product taste itself.
00:29:56.960 --> 00:30:02.799
It's like how how different this product is from the from the rest that are on the market.
00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:11.839
And then with that, uh I'm pretty sure that uh now you can think of actually how do we scale this business after getting the product market fee?
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:21.759
Because it's it's like now you've got so many people who are now using the product, and then they don't have any issue with the uh they can actually come back because the the yeah.
00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:27.279
No, I was gonna ask you, uh you the one who also came up with your only your own recipe?
00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:28.000
Yeah.
00:30:28.240 --> 00:30:36.240
So you're literally saying, okay, I'm going to have this kind of pepper, this kind of pepper, I'm going to add this kind of that was just you.
00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:37.680
Yeah, that was just me.
00:30:38.160 --> 00:30:44.880
And if I'm gonna be honest with you, I was in like a chili lover, let's say, like before I started this outsource business.
00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:45.359
Yeah.
00:30:45.519 --> 00:31:04.480
It's like I remember back in days in high school, like you used to have like a friend of you know, my friends, like by the time every time we're going to have a lunch, they could actually put a lot of chili in the in the food so that the rest don't actually eat it.
00:31:04.960 --> 00:31:05.359
Right.
00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:11.519
And then and then I remember every time they could put the chili in the food, I was like, nah, I'm out.
00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:16.720
You know, but but later on I started to become actually a chili addict.
00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:26.319
So the recipes, I'm the one who majority of the recipes, um, I was I was the one who was basically formulating them.
00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:38.160
But then it's it it wasn't actually me as such because the thing was more understanding people's tastes and preferences, right?
00:31:38.400 --> 00:31:46.000
It's like how does this certain ingredient impact this person's need when it comes to food?
00:31:46.559 --> 00:31:48.160
What are you doing during this time?
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:52.240
Because it seems you've graduated from university, right?
00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:56.160
So most people who graduate from university, what's the first thing they try to do?
00:31:56.319 --> 00:32:07.920
They look they try to look for a job because they now want to be able to move out of their parents' house, get a nice television, get some nice clothes, maybe have a girlfriend or two.
00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:17.680
Now, when you're on this entrepreneurship journey, where are you also working on the side?
00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:19.680
Is there someone who's giving you money?
00:32:19.839 --> 00:32:23.200
Do you have uh parents who are giving you money?
00:32:23.359 --> 00:32:24.960
How are you surviving?
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:32.480
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Hey, before we dive back into the conversation, are you a business looking to grow your reach, an organization, hoping to connect with a youth, or a market leader with a great product you want people to know about?
00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:52.000
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00:33:52.160 --> 00:34:05.359
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00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:12.880
Let me repeat, on our phone number, 0795462739.
00:34:13.039 --> 00:34:16.400
We'd love to help you tell your story.
00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:18.960
And now back to the conversation.
00:34:20.079 --> 00:34:29.280
So to be honest with you, I was surviving out of one, my parents' you know, money.
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:32.960
They used to give my my sisters at some point.
00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:46.400
But also I had I would some I had something that I was doing regarding to I usually like uh I do like in my in my free time I do like to do like graphic designing type of things, right?
00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:56.880
At the time I was I was doing a lot of gigs regarding to graphic designing and uh anything related to visual visual animation basically.
00:34:57.039 --> 00:34:59.119
I was I was very much investing in it.
00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:03.199
And uh it was kind of like giving me money to to survive at the time.
00:35:03.679 --> 00:35:14.159
But I also got an opportunity to get a job in this one company, and I was also doing social media management, work for for work for them.
00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:24.880
And then and then that is where I was actually applying the skills regarding graphic designing and visual visual art or visual animation.
00:35:25.119 --> 00:35:35.360
And uh the time I remember it had it reached to the point where I had to even drop off that work so that actually focused on uh the things related to agriculture.
00:35:35.519 --> 00:35:53.360
And uh the way I was surviving at the time, I was surviving off getting the money from graphic designing, uh, social media management, and then also invest in invest it into my actual work, which is which was uh the venture that I was turning.
00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:54.960
Creating shooty foods.
00:35:55.119 --> 00:35:55.760
Yeah.
00:35:56.239 --> 00:35:59.039
You know, that's that's a lot of bravery.
00:35:59.440 --> 00:36:06.800
And you know, why did you have so much faith in yourself?
00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:09.519
Where did it come from?
00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:18.079
I I think it's not something that I force, it's like I don't know, I feel like that's how I was born.
00:36:18.400 --> 00:36:22.960
It's like you believed in yourself that you would be successful.
00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:29.840
I haven't yet become successful as such, but like I still believe.
00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:31.360
Like, what else would you do?
00:36:31.599 --> 00:36:32.800
Like, tell me.
00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:38.719
Like, if you don't believe in yourself, it's like there's no anything else.
00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:48.079
It's just, you know, believing 100% that you're gonna make it, you know, um, and figure it out, you know.
00:36:48.400 --> 00:37:05.599
You never had any voices telling you it, like there could be external voices from friends, from family members saying, this dream that you're you have, please put it on the side, let's get you a real job.
00:37:06.079 --> 00:37:12.719
Do you never have those people who doubted your ability to make this business success?
00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:17.119
And in your head, do you never you never had those moments where you also doubted yourself?
00:37:17.199 --> 00:37:18.159
You never did.
00:37:19.280 --> 00:37:21.199
I had people who doubted me.
00:37:21.599 --> 00:37:27.039
And I feel like internally I'm uh I'm very much competitive.
00:37:27.360 --> 00:37:30.719
It's like I always want to prove you that I can actually do it.
00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:46.719
Because I remember, I feel like for for every entrepreneur, that is one thing, though I'm not sure if they actually talk about, but in my opinion, you're always trying to figure out, you're always trying to prove yourself.
00:37:47.440 --> 00:37:47.920
Right.
00:37:48.159 --> 00:37:48.960
Yeah, right.
00:37:49.599 --> 00:37:54.639
Because if you think about it, like you have so many ideas when you're studying now, right?
00:37:55.199 --> 00:38:06.800
And then it's completely different from the reality on the market when you are when you actually start out that idea or like start the execution and implementation of all these things you have in your thought.
00:38:06.880 --> 00:38:09.599
It's like, oh, okay, this is how it is.
00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:17.440
Then if it doesn't go, because for me, like there's this thing that I have, I usually like tell people about things that are going to do, right?
00:38:17.760 --> 00:38:18.639
That you're going to do.
00:38:18.800 --> 00:38:19.039
Yeah.
00:38:19.360 --> 00:38:23.039
It's like, because now I have a reason to actually go and do it.
00:38:23.280 --> 00:38:46.480
You know, because I feel like there is, it starts to kind of like create the more I tell myself about things that I'm that I'm gonna do or the things that I'm going to achieve and stuff, and consciously, and unconsciously, I start to figure out like different ways and so many ideas that I'm going to do that thing.
00:38:46.719 --> 00:38:47.039
Right?
00:38:47.440 --> 00:38:59.119
So I had actually had the person who actually told me that on this market you can't actually bring a product and succeed.
00:38:59.519 --> 00:39:02.400
Was that a person who It was very close to me?
00:39:02.880 --> 00:39:14.320
Yeah, it was very close to me because uh I was like, there is no way, you know, it was like as a young kid that I was 22 at the time, I was like, I never had people who could actually discourage me.
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:22.639
Because like you grow up, you know, you know, bounded by the love of parents, family, they're always pushing you.
00:39:22.719 --> 00:39:33.280
They're even if you do like a mistake, they're trying to actually make sure that it happens, but it can actually become something, you can do this and this for good, right?
00:39:33.440 --> 00:39:40.960
So like jumping on the market at that very young age and uh seeing a person discouraging me, I was like, what?
00:39:41.440 --> 00:39:55.920
So, but for me, I've I've uh I took it like uh a motivation to actually prove uh because what we were doing was beyond was beyond proving these people.
00:39:56.159 --> 00:39:59.599
Because it's something beyond the person, one person.
00:39:59.679 --> 00:40:05.280
It's it's a it's it's something that is going and that is impacting so many people.
00:40:05.599 --> 00:40:05.760
Right?
00:40:05.920 --> 00:40:13.920
So for me, like uh I just I was lucky to become mature enough to understand uh the main purpose for what we're doing.
00:40:14.239 --> 00:40:26.320
So, and then which is essentially something that was actually pushing me that much to see how do we bring actually a product that people love and then a product that can impact uh hundreds of farmers.
00:40:26.719 --> 00:40:31.199
No, so we're we're talking about all about your success.
00:40:31.360 --> 00:40:39.280
You know, you've built company that you're that people will be proud of, uh, that you're proud of.
00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:50.559
But for every success, there are always those moments where if only by just because of the grace of God you've survived.
00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:51.280
Right?
00:40:51.440 --> 00:41:04.960
It could be if you're a podcaster like me, it could be you were not getting numbers, and then by the grace of God, you were able to get JJ Okocha to randomly come to Kigali and then randomly sit down with you.
00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:14.800
Now every business has those moments where it has almost dying or it will not survive.
00:41:15.199 --> 00:41:30.079
What nearly killed Intrigue Foods and what did that experience of almost losing everything teach you about doing business, but also what did that moment teach you about yourself?
00:41:31.360 --> 00:41:38.719
So I would say actually this moment is happening every day, right?
00:41:38.880 --> 00:41:39.119
Really?
00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:45.119
It's happening every day in any you know entrepreneurship journey.
00:41:45.199 --> 00:41:48.960
It's like it's challenge over challenge, and you're trying to overcome that.
00:41:49.199 --> 00:41:53.280
But like for for us, it's uh it's such a right now.
00:41:53.760 --> 00:41:56.960
Tell me about what's what's almost killing you right now.
00:41:57.280 --> 00:41:58.960
So here it is, right?
00:41:59.119 --> 00:42:07.360
So we're just you know a startup that is trending on the market, and uh people really like love our product, right?
00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:13.199
And then you have did so much for people to actually get that you know unique dining experience.
00:42:13.519 --> 00:42:19.679
There are product in the the restaurant that are that are that are that we are running.
00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:27.039
So, and then every business when it's growing, and then that is when it actually gets tougher, right?
00:42:27.679 --> 00:42:37.679
And I would say essentially the I don't actually call it something that's going to kill my brain because it's it's it should happen anyway, right?
00:42:39.360 --> 00:42:45.679
The thing about enough working capital, it's a big deal.
00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:50.639
It's like, you know, like excuse me.
00:42:51.039 --> 00:42:58.480
I feel like every business that is starting out is it's like you can't even afford to not do something.
00:42:58.639 --> 00:43:01.679
It's like because there are so much that you need to do.
00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:04.480
Like you can't even waste time at all.
00:43:05.039 --> 00:43:18.159
And then you can't even afford to cry, it's like, I don't have you gotta do everything possible to bring the idea to life and taste the product and market and uh get traction and all that.
00:43:18.639 --> 00:43:25.519
But when business grow, then it starts to require enough working capital to actually sustain the business.
00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:44.880
So for for us, what happened was it's like last year in uh in 2025, we opened the another part of our business, which which is essentially the treaty wings, which is and it was basically the the idea that we had ever since we started out.
00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:58.719
It's like A, because build on the what we believe is uh our branding dean and the what we stand on as the can can we create food that brings people together.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:14.639
It it just out of that idea and uh also trying to give people an opportunity to taste flavors that are craft before they even go and buy them in the supermarket.
00:44:14.880 --> 00:44:26.159
They're like, okay, how do we bring uh a concept on the market that actually brings to life who we are as a brand and who what we stand on as a brand.
00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:29.199
And then that was the restaurant, right?
00:44:29.440 --> 00:44:37.280
And then uh I was I was I was I was very, very much excited to open that restaurant, obviously, with my team.
00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:41.039
And we had a little of a little bit of money that we raised at the time.
00:44:41.119 --> 00:44:42.960
And we were like Where did you raise it from?
00:44:43.199 --> 00:44:48.719
So essentially it was off the grants and uh and and and and the loan from the bank.
00:44:49.199 --> 00:44:49.920
How much?
00:44:50.320 --> 00:44:56.880
The time was uh close to close to 80 million.
00:44:57.039 --> 00:44:57.920
Wow, yeah.
00:44:58.159 --> 00:44:59.920
That's a big bet on yourself.
00:45:00.079 --> 00:45:02.800
Yeah, I mean, I was like, I gotta go.
00:45:02.880 --> 00:45:06.320
Like I we literally started off with no money almost.
00:45:06.639 --> 00:45:23.679
And then what would happen if I feel like this is something that people can really like argue much about because it's it's like there is no enough money to do something in real sense.
00:45:24.320 --> 00:45:32.239
It's like you just gotta figure out because it until you want these ideas to die and rot in you.
00:45:33.199 --> 00:45:47.039
But with it every little money that you have, of course you don't have to do like some crazy big jumps, you know, because for us you did we ain't gonna do we weren't gonna open like uh, you know, like a fully running uh restaurant.
00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:53.199
We're like, okay, now with this money, can actually open so you had a loan of 80 million?
00:45:53.440 --> 00:45:56.880
Wasn't the total amount was 80.
00:45:56.960 --> 00:45:57.119
Yeah.
00:45:57.280 --> 00:45:58.880
Okay, so the loan and the grant.
00:45:59.119 --> 00:46:30.239
Yeah, the the you know, the loans and uh uh the the the loans and the grants because we we raised money you we raised money from different places and um and like boom because now the business uh the the sources it's themselves were also booming, you know, or starting to catch up, but we're like no, like there's no way you can grow without having like without having your role out there.
00:46:30.639 --> 00:46:39.679
Because like for us, we stand uh we stand for uh how does it how how does what we do bring people together?
00:46:39.840 --> 00:46:51.119
How does friends or intrudy sit down at the dining table and they get you know a unique and a joyful, a unique and joyful dining experience?
00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:53.039
And that's what we stand on.
00:46:53.920 --> 00:46:57.119
It's like okay, now we're like, okay, let's open the restaurant.
00:46:57.199 --> 00:47:06.079
Now it's gonna give us an opportunity to see people, you know, enjoying the truthy wings alongside our sauces, because you know, they are it's two-way street.
00:47:06.400 --> 00:47:16.719
And uh, and then we're like, okay, now we just brought it, and then before we know it, also we're uh investing a lot of money into kitchen equipment and all that.
00:47:16.960 --> 00:47:25.599
Then boom, oh, the sources, we just we just need to have enough working capital for for the sources as well, right?
00:47:25.760 --> 00:47:32.960
And then if you think about it, FCMG or a first consumable moving good, it's it's a crazy market to be in, to be honest with you.
00:47:33.599 --> 00:47:52.960
Because you need to have enough money uh for stock, or I'm talking about the packaging and the other thing that I earned the ingredients, you need to have enough money uh to wait for to run to keep running the business where you're waiting for uh the pain payment from the customers, right?
00:47:53.119 --> 00:48:00.880
Because I mean the FCMG market, the way it's structured, it's structured in a way where you just get paid within 45 to 60 days.
00:48:01.280 --> 00:48:06.400
But you have to pay salaries, you have to pay city, you have to buy, you have to survive.
00:48:06.559 --> 00:48:08.159
Yeah, you have to survive at the end of the day.
00:48:08.400 --> 00:48:09.760
While you're waiting for people to pay you.
00:48:09.920 --> 00:48:10.880
Yeah, that's what it is.
00:48:10.960 --> 00:48:15.199
And the the best part of this market, like people, they're still gonna pay you.
00:48:15.440 --> 00:48:20.079
Like they're not gonna go away with your money, but like they can delay you for sure.
00:48:20.239 --> 00:48:21.199
Like, for sure.
00:48:21.760 --> 00:48:29.679
And then, and then, and then for us, you haven't like fully understood like the concept, you know?
00:48:30.719 --> 00:48:35.599
And then I was like, okay, now before you know it, you're running out of stock.
00:48:35.840 --> 00:48:45.280
And then you know, like I have 20 million, you know, when my customers, like they owe they owe you 20 million, but you're not you don't have any cash.
00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:55.599
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Yeah, listen, the reality is it's like you need it takes close to 60, 45 to 60 or 90 days to get the packaging arrive here in Rwanda from China, for example.
00:50:20.559 --> 00:50:30.960
And then, and then if you if your pro if the product that is moving well, maybe it's the glass, the product in the glass bottles, and then you still have to wait.
00:50:31.119 --> 00:50:37.679
Now it means that then your business is going to suffer like really hard, you know, to get to make the ends meet.
00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:42.639
Because now you can't make all the ends meet of the business itself, right?
00:50:42.960 --> 00:50:53.280
And then, oh no, what I'm trying to say is like, okay, the thing now, anyway, the best part of the best part is is we are learning as we go.
00:50:53.360 --> 00:50:57.440
It's like, how do we also get actually now for working capital?
00:50:57.599 --> 00:50:59.679
Because like, hey, this problem is real.
00:50:59.920 --> 00:51:02.480
Like it's real, it can actually kill your business, right?
00:51:02.800 --> 00:51:04.320
And yet it's a good business.
00:51:04.480 --> 00:51:04.960
Yeah.
00:51:05.280 --> 00:51:10.559
It's just going to kill you because you hadn't factored in all these intricacies.
00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:12.320
Yeah, that's what it is.
00:51:12.480 --> 00:51:22.000
Now, now, now I think like like a few months ago, we're almost about to go to go out of business because of exactly that reason.
00:51:22.079 --> 00:51:31.119
Because like now, if you are making, let's say, 50 million in revenues, now before you know it, the next month you not even make 30 or 40, right?
00:51:31.280 --> 00:51:36.159
Because now uh you've because the thing is, it's like these guys are so interesting.
00:51:36.400 --> 00:51:38.880
It's like they're still gonna give you orders.
00:51:39.039 --> 00:51:43.679
Because like the argument you have with them is like, hey, we're gonna pay you after 60 days.
00:51:43.920 --> 00:51:45.119
After 60 days.
00:51:45.440 --> 00:51:53.199
And then, but you have you still have to supply us the product within that period, even if we could sell out.
00:51:54.880 --> 00:51:59.599
You know, and then you're obliged to supply the these these people, right?
00:51:59.920 --> 00:52:05.920
So then now, before you know it, things start to go off the grip, you know.
00:52:06.079 --> 00:52:08.559
So how did you survive that?
00:52:08.960 --> 00:52:19.920
So what you're trying to do about it is one, primarily figuring out what's not working well internally in the business.
00:52:20.159 --> 00:52:26.079
It's like because one thing about business is it's always about numbers.
00:52:26.559 --> 00:52:30.000
It's like how how do you deal with numbers?
00:52:30.559 --> 00:52:35.519
How like how do you manage your business monetary-wise?
00:52:35.760 --> 00:52:42.719
It's like now we started to realize that uh we had there was some money that are investing in wrong places.
00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:47.360
And uh now it's like, no, how do we recover that money to actually invest it in the right thing?
00:52:47.679 --> 00:52:58.400
Like the most in the most, we just had to figure out like what are the priorities right now to actually get a penny next day, right?
00:52:58.559 --> 00:52:59.119
To survive.
00:52:59.360 --> 00:53:00.400
To survive, right?
00:53:00.719 --> 00:53:08.480
But also actually trying to kind of also filter a little bit how do we deal with our customers, right?
00:53:08.559 --> 00:53:17.760
Because you had so some some customers that were paying us after 30 days, and yet they can actually pay us, like literally on their arrival.
00:53:17.840 --> 00:53:20.159
Now the product is known, people are using it.
00:53:20.320 --> 00:53:29.599
Now, at least we have like we haven't reached to that level yet, but at least we had a little bit of negotiation in there in the beginning.
00:53:29.920 --> 00:53:35.119
And then we're like, now listen, we need money.
00:53:35.440 --> 00:53:40.400
Our product is the most needed on the on the hot sauce market.
00:53:40.880 --> 00:53:43.840
On the on the on the shelf in the new supermarket, right?
00:53:44.320 --> 00:53:49.119
Now, what you want to do is like we want to make sure that we keep supplying you our product.
00:53:49.199 --> 00:53:53.920
You make money, but we need you to provide to pay us on arrival.
00:53:54.159 --> 00:54:08.320
Because then it's not gonna be like this, then it's not gonna work out tomorrow, because we can be able to supply you, because uh we have to understand every customer particularly for us to be able to continue surviving.
00:54:08.480 --> 00:54:12.559
But also on the other hand, it's actually also raising enough money, right?
00:54:12.719 --> 00:54:27.199
Because now we've we've uh I think God was also working on our side in uh in one way, because we just had an opportunity to raise some funding to invest in the business.
00:54:27.440 --> 00:54:29.519
Though it's it's still like a journey.
00:54:30.320 --> 00:54:33.039
It's not like you can wake up in the morning and get that money.
00:54:33.199 --> 00:54:46.639
You're talking to multiple investors, you're also raising money because now now in that period, you just gotta do everything possible for the business, for for the business to keep running, you know.
00:54:46.880 --> 00:55:03.039
So I'd say we also have to reconnect with the team into because like the first people that are serving in actual sense, they are your team.
00:55:03.199 --> 00:55:21.199
It's like if your team is not aligned with you and uh and the company is gone, it's not gonna go anywhere because they are really to the point where you're making like really like insane numbers on the paper, but then also the money that is spending was also allowed.
00:55:21.679 --> 00:55:29.760
And then we're like, okay, now if the first thing that we need to do is you have to take care of your employees.
00:55:30.320 --> 00:55:47.280
It's like, okay, how do we actually group together again as a team to understand like what's happening and also come up with solutions that everybody's going to contribute in and they understand the pain of what it is that is happening.
00:55:47.519 --> 00:55:59.280
But also really, because the in so many cases they are happening to have to read to the point where you're not even paying uh you know employees right on time.
00:55:59.519 --> 00:56:07.599
But it's like now, how do you uh create these relationships with the employees in the company for them to understand the struggles that are going through?
00:56:07.760 --> 00:56:15.039
But at the best part of it, it's like business is it's not an issue in the reality.
00:56:15.199 --> 00:56:23.199
The thing is, it's it's like a business, there are certain businesses that need to work in a certain way.
00:56:23.519 --> 00:56:29.599
And then for an FCMG business, you need to sit on enough working capital for a business to survive.
00:56:29.679 --> 00:56:30.320
And that's it.
00:56:30.400 --> 00:56:36.480
And then if you don't have that working capital, then it's gonna be hard for you to reach some certain goals.
00:56:36.639 --> 00:56:49.199
So we just had to learn it hard way, but uh uh there are a few things that are doing about it, actually, continue surviving and continue running the business.
00:56:49.519 --> 00:56:52.320
Do you ever do you ever feel because what you're listening?
00:56:52.480 --> 00:56:58.719
I'm I'm hearing this and I'm I'm I'm amazed by just how ambitious you are.
00:56:59.519 --> 00:57:08.400
But there's also an English saying that I like to use, which is you know, sometimes your eyes are bigger than your stomach.
00:57:08.639 --> 00:57:09.039
Yeah.
00:57:09.280 --> 00:57:09.679
Right?
00:57:09.840 --> 00:57:14.400
Sometimes your dream is more than you can you can manage at that time.
00:57:16.239 --> 00:57:20.800
Last year, as you said, your sauces were doing very, very well.
00:57:21.280 --> 00:57:21.760
Right?
00:57:22.079 --> 00:57:25.199
And that was something that you had really become good at doing.
00:57:25.519 --> 00:57:30.639
You know, you've taken a couple of years becoming a master at your craft.
00:57:31.599 --> 00:57:39.199
Now, some will say, continue becoming a master at your craft, stay stay in your lane.
00:57:40.880 --> 00:57:50.719
You chose not to to stay in that lane, but then you also said I'm also going to get that money and start a new lane for myself.
00:57:53.519 --> 00:58:00.239
Well, don't you think that that it it sounds like that was quite a risk?
00:58:01.599 --> 00:58:10.719
And would you advise someone who is not you to take the same risk?
00:58:11.840 --> 00:58:12.480
I would.
00:58:13.360 --> 00:58:20.000
I think this is a bit subjective to so many entrepreneurs and and and investors, you know.
00:58:20.239 --> 00:58:32.079
Now you know, like the way you are saying it kind of like giving me a feeling of like an investor of like how would he analyze my business if he was gonna invest in my company.
00:58:32.800 --> 00:58:40.000
And then it kind of like makes sense in an investor's perspective, an outsider.
00:58:40.239 --> 00:58:43.840
Or even a bank, someone who's going to put money in the in the business.
00:58:44.079 --> 00:58:44.719
You know.
00:58:45.360 --> 00:59:01.519
But on another hand, it also is not also a risk for a dreamer, you know, or a risk on a founder, because first of all, you guys are the one who said the vision for the company.
00:59:01.760 --> 00:59:05.920
You're the one who said uh the company's DNA, right?
00:59:06.320 --> 00:59:12.559
And then I will be so damned if I actually don't learn from it, you know?
00:59:12.800 --> 00:59:14.079
Because it's like, think about it.
00:59:14.800 --> 00:59:18.800
For us, you're not you're not Tabasco.
00:59:19.440 --> 00:59:23.199
Like we are not shot or like we are in truth.
00:59:23.840 --> 00:59:24.559
We are in truth.
00:59:25.119 --> 00:59:45.360
We are we we are we are we are a culinary food brand that is really big on the community, and then it's like we are very much inspired by how do we create some culinary inspired food experiences in different ways, right?
00:59:45.599 --> 00:59:56.400
And then what happened is by by the way, it's I think it can be in a different lane depending on how you think about it.
00:59:56.639 --> 01:00:01.119
Because in natural sense, one complement each other, right?
01:00:01.840 --> 01:00:06.079
So, for example, we've had so many people.
01:00:09.039 --> 01:00:17.440
So maybe if I can take you a little bit into like how what we do, like or how our business works, the mechanism of it.
01:00:17.760 --> 01:00:23.039
It's like people buy our chicken, right?
01:00:23.280 --> 01:00:26.079
Let's say it's glazing hot honey, right?
01:00:26.400 --> 01:00:36.800
And then after trying the hot honey on the the on on the on on our chick on our chicken, it's like, oh, this chicken is really nice.
01:00:37.119 --> 01:00:39.920
I mean, this sauce is really nice.
01:00:40.239 --> 01:00:48.159
It's like, okay, now ah, this can actually go away with uh let's say hot dog, for example.
01:00:48.880 --> 01:00:55.519
And then if you make your own hot dog at home, and like now you still want to get the same taste experience, right?
01:00:55.679 --> 01:00:58.400
And then it's like, oh, where should I actually find it?
01:00:58.800 --> 01:01:05.920
And it's like, okay, don't worry, we got you, you can actually find it in the supermarket, or you can order it from us, depending on how you want.
01:01:06.400 --> 01:01:14.400
And then and then the person can still get that taste experience in other dishes.
01:01:15.280 --> 01:01:20.639
So basically, one complement other.
01:01:22.159 --> 01:01:27.679
So, but what you and then and then the question is how what do we learn from it?
01:01:27.840 --> 01:01:32.559
Because in my in my opinion, it's I mean, it's it requires a lot of effort.
01:01:32.719 --> 01:01:35.039
Like you are very much stretched.
01:01:35.519 --> 01:01:39.760
But then it's like, listen, I was born for this.
01:01:40.079 --> 01:01:41.920
It's like now I'm married to it.
01:01:42.000 --> 01:01:44.880
It's like whatever that happened, it's like I'm locked in.
01:01:44.960 --> 01:01:47.920
I want to make sure you call we make the end meet regularly.
01:01:48.079 --> 01:01:55.920
Because like if you think about restaurant industry, it's it's a big market, and then it's it's super competitive in one way or another.
01:01:56.079 --> 01:02:05.840
But it being competitive, there is the main reason why you you have there are two restaurants that are literally on the same straight, they are actually closed.
01:02:06.079 --> 01:02:11.280
But one restaurant is making a ton of money, and then the rest is not making money.
01:02:11.519 --> 01:02:22.639
You I think the idea is pretty much more about understanding why what we do spatial, you know?
01:02:22.880 --> 01:02:33.119
And then for us, we realize that what you actually do spatial, it's what bugs our original business, which was essentially the sources, right?
01:02:33.360 --> 01:02:42.960
And then it's like now people, because we we also started to come kind of like come up with different ideas of actually how do we going to stand on our business.
01:02:43.039 --> 01:02:54.880
Like, like, because now we started to come up with different ideas of the the cookout, the intrudical, how do we get people to actually come over and actually taste the sources on their own the chicken?
01:02:55.199 --> 01:03:01.199
And then the how do we create that, you know, source like creating events, creating events, all these times.
01:03:01.280 --> 01:03:05.280
Now we want to be involved in everything that is happening in town when it comes to food.
01:03:05.360 --> 01:03:07.199
It's like there is an event right here.
01:03:07.280 --> 01:03:12.639
It's like now, how do we get close to people for them to actually see what we do, you know?
01:03:12.800 --> 01:03:22.960
And then I think your point is it does make sense because primarily every business needs to have a focus.
01:03:23.039 --> 01:03:30.800
You you want to become the best at what you do, and then you can think of like expanding into another thing later on, right?
01:03:31.039 --> 01:03:39.119
So for us, we realize like it's like you are moving, it's like you are moving without your head.
01:03:39.360 --> 01:03:42.800
It's like it's the lower part of the body that is moving.
01:03:43.039 --> 01:04:00.480
Because for us, it's like we are just that brand that stands on how do we blend food, food, togetherness, community, and creativity at the same time.
01:04:00.800 --> 01:04:05.280
So that kind of like gave us actually how we're going to shape the business.
01:04:05.519 --> 01:04:12.159
And then the part of how does a business sustainably grow come backing that that part.
01:04:13.280 --> 01:04:25.199
No, I uh listen, I'm listening to this and I'm also getting quite inspired because again, I'm also through the long form podcast and LF Media, I'm also trying to create this business.
01:04:25.679 --> 01:04:33.519
And again, I I always have these two competing thoughts in my mind.
01:04:33.920 --> 01:04:37.360
Do I concentrate on what is working?
01:04:37.679 --> 01:05:01.039
And then, you know, I guess that's thinking like an investor, or do I try to live the dream that I want, even though that dream might be much further down the line and might cost me more in terms of investment and time and and even thinking and stress and all these things.
01:05:01.280 --> 01:05:04.960
So that's that what you've given is a great answer for that.
01:05:05.199 --> 01:05:16.400
You know, today you because someone I feel like we need to also understand like what intuitifood is for the economy, right?
01:05:16.559 --> 01:05:19.039
Because we've kind of like made it all about you.
01:05:19.920 --> 01:05:24.559
Now, you have about you work with about over 100 farmers.
01:05:24.880 --> 01:05:35.840
You have, you directly employ about 25 members of staff, and probably indirectly there's now another ecosystem that you help feed.
01:05:36.400 --> 01:05:48.000
Now, I want to go into the the mindset of a founder and how do you how you start figuring out how do I navigate this new reality?
01:05:48.639 --> 01:05:59.440
Now, what happens in the in the inside a founder's brain when the business stops becoming entirely based on you?
01:06:00.320 --> 01:06:10.400
And your dreams and your wishes, and it becomes a real company where you have, you know, people who are in charge of supply chain, people who are in charge of this.
01:06:10.800 --> 01:06:13.440
How do you navigate that new reality?
01:06:13.519 --> 01:06:26.719
Because in the beginning, you literally were the chief blender, you know, the person who was chief packer, the driver, uh social media.
01:06:27.760 --> 01:06:36.960
But now you're you're you have this huge ecosystem that you're the head of, and you can no longer be everyone.
01:06:37.679 --> 01:06:39.760
How do you manage that change?
01:06:40.320 --> 01:06:51.199
That change in your circumstance, in your business, and how do you still feel at least I have a level of control on what's happening?
01:06:51.920 --> 01:06:55.840
I think from now on I'm going to give myself that name, like Chief Blender.
01:06:57.599 --> 01:06:59.280
That's a really nice name.
01:06:59.360 --> 01:06:59.760
Yeah.
01:07:00.000 --> 01:07:10.719
I mean, I I think every business needs to become a bit more formal for it to grow.
01:07:10.880 --> 01:07:22.239
But like having that corporate culture in the business, it's a it's a it's a plus for a business to grow.
01:07:22.800 --> 01:07:32.000
So I think as you just elaborate a little bit on it, it's like you started off, you start off actually doing everything.
01:07:32.239 --> 01:07:32.639
You know?
01:07:32.800 --> 01:07:38.400
And then before you know it, you realize it's like now actually this business can never grow with me doing everything.
01:07:38.559 --> 01:07:47.360
Because now you start to miss on others, you start to, you know, mix up so many things to the extent now the business is no longer functioning.
01:07:47.440 --> 01:07:53.440
And then it uh it's also uh it's also it it is it is also mental draining.
01:07:53.679 --> 01:07:55.440
Like uh you cannot do that.
01:07:55.519 --> 01:08:00.400
Like the body itself at some point also like tells you what to do.
01:08:00.480 --> 01:08:02.400
It's like, hey, listen, chill.
01:08:02.880 --> 01:08:05.599
You need to bring stuff in your business.
01:08:05.760 --> 01:08:14.239
Because I remember when I was standing out, I was doing this work myself for almost like six months.
01:08:14.639 --> 01:08:22.079
It's like, you know, doing production, uh, doing sales, marketing, and uh all these type of things.
01:08:22.239 --> 01:08:25.840
And then it's really to the point I was like, hey, listen, enough is enough.
01:08:26.000 --> 01:08:27.439
Now I need stuff to come.
01:08:27.600 --> 01:08:40.000
And then and then something special about governance is it's just the part of empowering people, you know, because as we there's this book that I love that is called Imyth.
01:08:40.560 --> 01:08:44.399
It's like there are for every business, there are three people.
01:08:44.640 --> 01:08:47.920
There is an entrepreneur, there is a manager, and there is a technician.
01:08:48.239 --> 01:08:52.319
And then you gotta choose who you are or who you have to be, all right?
01:08:52.560 --> 01:08:59.039
And then and then the best thing about becoming an entrepreneur is uh there are so many talents.
01:08:59.119 --> 01:09:09.439
I I I promise you, like in this country have so many talents in different industries, in different departments, in different so many things, right?
01:09:09.600 --> 01:09:22.720
And then as soon as I realized that uh there is a need for uh this company, because not the thing is it's like not doing that and not giving a chance to your company to grow and become something big.
01:09:22.960 --> 01:09:33.600
And then as soon as I realized that, I was like, now we need to bring, we need to bring a production manager to take care of this, and then I focus only on sales and and and and marketing.
01:09:33.920 --> 01:09:45.680
Because for me, like even the strategy, it's what I was more really more on, it's like I need to build this certain department, and then I bring somebody in to take over and do it the best.
01:09:46.000 --> 01:09:57.680
And then uh I kept also asking myself, it's like, okay, where I went to school, it's like there are so many, so many uh food engineers that are graduating every year.
01:09:57.840 --> 01:10:00.000
It's like, what are these people gonna do?
01:10:00.159 --> 01:10:00.479
Right.
01:10:00.720 --> 01:10:12.319
Because and then and then and then the I I mean, if you see like the track record for uh how we hire our production managers, the majority of them actually come from uh IPRC.
01:10:12.560 --> 01:10:13.520
IPRC.
01:10:13.920 --> 01:10:22.800
And then and then and then and then the person came in and then had to had enough time to actually focus on another part.
01:10:22.880 --> 01:10:30.319
Because the thing is, it's like these people, they are super talented, then they they even love work, but people need opportunity.
01:10:30.640 --> 01:10:40.079
And then the worst thing you can do is hiring an employee who doesn't love his work, and then who is really like after money as such.
01:10:40.319 --> 01:10:51.199
Because think about it, money, the reality is it's like company at the first place is there to make money at the first place.
01:10:51.439 --> 01:10:59.520
And then obviously there is, you know, the part of like what a company stands on, but uh the company is there to make profit.
01:10:59.760 --> 01:11:13.760
And then the best thing is actually treating well that employee, because obviously you understand, because the best part of what I do is like majority of my team, they are they're my age.
01:11:14.079 --> 01:11:20.319
Or if they are older than me, they're not older than me, more than like three or two years.
01:11:20.640 --> 01:11:23.439
So we are in the in the same age group.
01:11:23.600 --> 01:11:31.279
And then these people, you truly understand like what they go through because it's exactly the lifestyle that you go through, you know?
01:11:31.439 --> 01:11:42.079
And it's like, okay, this person, let's say if he or she needs maybe 500,000 to do his work happily.
01:11:42.239 --> 01:11:54.800
And then it's like, now you come and help us reach these numbers, and then this is the baseline, and then as we as we grow, and then of obviously as the company grows, also employees need to benefit from me.
01:11:55.520 --> 01:12:10.079
So, and then these people, once you empower them, and then you actually help them and and they and uh learn uh the dog that is in them, it's it it kind of like help your business grow very quickly and drastically.
01:12:10.399 --> 01:12:33.439
So, so the thing is the thing is it's it's like the camp you need to you need to pull down or articulate where a company needs to go or all these, you know, all these goals, all these targets, all these achievements for a company.
01:12:33.840 --> 01:12:37.680
For it to, first of all, for it to actually become a serious company.
01:12:37.760 --> 01:12:40.880
Because there is no company without a clear business plan.
01:12:41.359 --> 01:12:52.000
And then the more you have that clarity about about it, then it becomes much more easier for for you to actually build the corporate part of it.
01:12:52.720 --> 01:13:01.920
So, and then I I think I think this is where most of us in a struggle to actually grow a company.
01:13:02.000 --> 01:13:11.760
Because think about it, like you have never, like for me, like the actual work that I have did was working in that the shipping company that I told you.
01:13:12.000 --> 01:13:20.800
I was I was I was dealing with social media management and the you know designing their graphic and all that for one month and a half.
01:13:21.039 --> 01:13:22.800
Like I never had an experience.
01:13:23.520 --> 01:13:29.119
And then that part is the most difficult part to figure out.
01:13:29.359 --> 01:13:54.319
It's like now how do we transition from becoming a lifestyle company, or like I usually like to call it like you are just vibing, you know, to becoming a serious corporate company that has goals, that has targets, that has KPIs, that is holding, that has come employees that are responsible, and and and and all that.
01:13:54.479 --> 01:13:56.560
There are so many things that are built around.
01:13:56.880 --> 01:14:13.680
But once you started to notice that, and then the it's it's on you and the the the hungriness and then uh you know how hungry you are to make it become very much formal.
01:14:13.840 --> 01:14:34.720
Because it's like, okay, of course, there is the culture that you need to build in the company, and then in our context, uh we're very much more focused on uh we don't have to lose ourselves because we are very young people, like we still want to have fun doing what we do, which I think is something really like interesting about like our work.
01:14:35.199 --> 01:14:45.119
Because the employee is like it's formal, but also people are finding themselves like in the in the rhythm, right?
01:14:45.520 --> 01:14:49.199
So, but that doesn't have to do anything with delivering.
01:14:49.439 --> 01:14:58.399
Because like if you have to deliver this, you just gotta do everything possible to deliver that that thing for a company to grow.
01:14:58.560 --> 01:15:11.520
So I think uh if I'm I don't know if I'm making sense on that part, but I would say the governance should start from the time you start the company.
01:15:12.000 --> 01:15:26.880
Like the company because think about it, it's like so many people, there are so many entrepreneurs who struggle to basically scare their company because their specific department they didn't take care of.
01:15:27.039 --> 01:15:35.279
For example, most of them, like if you if you if you look at their financials, because I've lived the same life, right?
01:15:35.520 --> 01:15:38.399
It's really, like, really terrible.
01:15:38.560 --> 01:15:54.159
You know, and then it's like, you know, like you're uh let's say in my in my context, it's it's like yo, I'm a I'm a I'm a um I've did full time four times, and I'm very much excited about building a product.
01:15:54.319 --> 01:15:56.479
You know, like now I'm a product entrepreneur.
01:15:56.560 --> 01:16:08.000
I uh I forget to realize that first of all I'm an entrepreneur to build a company that I can sell to millions of dollars.
01:16:08.720 --> 01:16:18.159
And then before you know it, you end up having a department that is not working, and then another one is it's working.
01:16:18.399 --> 01:16:31.039
And then as you grow, it's like I think it also comes along with you know, how lucky are you to get this information early on in your career in your career?
01:16:31.359 --> 01:16:39.439
Because it's like, okay, for a business to become formal, there's no anything special about it.
01:16:39.680 --> 01:17:02.800
It's essentially having that, you know, clear business plan, having a business that is aligned, having your financials, having your financials ready and proper, you make sure that there is a strong finance system, there is uh there are SOPs or standard operating procedures for a business.
01:17:02.960 --> 01:17:05.039
Yeah, so because there is not anything new.
01:17:05.119 --> 01:17:17.359
It's like it's like the fact the fact that uh it requires all this work and you just have to put it together, I think that is what makes it really, like, really hard.
01:17:17.439 --> 01:17:30.159
It's like there are so many things that require time and you have to do like that quality work for a business to actually become really like a for it to become a thriving business.
01:17:30.479 --> 01:17:49.439
So I think like if I would take you through like how like my time, how I manage my time, I I sometimes find myself not even having like time to actually enjoy my 20s, you know, because it's like there's so much going on.
01:17:49.680 --> 01:18:01.760
It's like be the thing you just you you start to deal with marketing, and then and then after having it right, then before you know, like finance is messed up.
01:18:01.920 --> 01:18:14.399
It's like now I need to empower, you need to go and uh be present there and uh support other the you know this department because to be honest with you, I'm also still learning about it, right?
01:18:14.560 --> 01:18:31.439
It's like okay, now because one thing I have realized is like every every time I spend, I focus on a specific department, like I can see that that department is really like growing and becoming much more stronger than it was.
01:18:31.760 --> 01:18:45.359
But then before I know it, also another department, because it's like for me, I'm a big fan of obviously you have to hire the best people.
01:18:45.760 --> 01:18:49.600
Like if you don't have like the best people in certain departments, it's not gonna work.
01:18:49.760 --> 01:18:57.039
But startups also are not actually allowing you to do that because you don't have all the money to money to pay for the talent.
01:18:57.279 --> 01:18:57.520
Yeah.
01:18:58.000 --> 01:19:05.680
That is the main reason why I was still telling you it's like, yo, I still I need to figure out how people do this, you know?
01:19:06.239 --> 01:19:25.920
But things that is working for me is ensuring that we hire the best people in our capacity, and then after hiring these best people, and then we want to make sure that they are very much invested in the dream and the vision for the company.
01:19:26.399 --> 01:19:35.520
And then we do our very best to give them all the necessary resources for them to actually deliver.
01:19:36.000 --> 01:19:49.199
And then on the other hand, for me as an as an entrepreneur, because at the end of the day, though these people come through, you just gotta go there and uh help the team shape whatever that uh you're working on.
01:19:49.520 --> 01:19:59.840
But for me, one thing that always surprised me is just the fact that every time I'm I'm working on this, then the the rest, it's also it also needs my time.
01:20:00.560 --> 01:20:05.039
So I gotta figure out how do I how I spend uh my time throughout the week.
01:20:05.199 --> 01:20:14.720
It's like now for this week are we, I mean, for these days I work on this and this, the the this this day I will work on this, and then the other day I work on this.
01:20:14.960 --> 01:20:20.560
So so this way, I I think that question is really like broad.
01:20:21.520 --> 01:20:34.239
And then in my opinion, I'm still also like trying to learn and understand how best I should actually grow my company to become a big company.
01:20:34.399 --> 01:20:51.680
Because it's like every company, in my opinion, I believe it's it has a chance to become something big, especially when you work on the basics, like having the the product a person is willing to buy and pay his or her money and come back over and over and over.
01:20:52.319 --> 01:21:01.039
I feel like once you have the product market feed, it's like it's it's on new and new team to figure out like how do we grow this company.
01:21:01.600 --> 01:21:06.800
So unless you have actually some game that you can see learning.
01:21:07.199 --> 01:21:20.880
No, because you know where you are now, although though you say that you're learning, you are at a place where a lot of SMEs, small and medium-sized enterprises here in Rwanda are failing.
01:21:21.439 --> 01:21:24.159
And and this is something I wanted to ask you.
01:21:26.000 --> 01:21:33.520
Why so one of the things that they say about Rwanda is that you know it's it's a great place to do business.
01:21:33.680 --> 01:21:43.600
It's you know, you can go to RDB and open your business in 24 hours, you know, you have there's no corruption, there's this and this and this.
01:21:44.319 --> 01:21:55.840
But for all our strengths, right, in terms of regulatory and statutory things that would maybe stop a business from growing, we we've done that.
01:21:55.920 --> 01:21:57.680
I feel like we've done that well.
01:21:57.920 --> 01:22:09.920
But then if you go on the ground and you go into a supermarket, for example, and and walk around, uh the vast majority of the things that you'll see are not made in Rwanda.
01:22:10.399 --> 01:22:10.720
Right?
01:22:11.039 --> 01:22:17.520
If you're lucky, it will be maybe some honey, some coffee, some tea, and some hot sauces.
01:22:18.399 --> 01:22:18.800
Right?
01:22:18.960 --> 01:22:19.279
Yeah.
01:22:20.079 --> 01:22:28.880
And maybe if you're again a f a few cleaning products, but not very even well placed, you know.
01:22:29.119 --> 01:22:32.880
You know how they put them there where you can barely know that this one is made in Rwanda.
01:22:32.960 --> 01:22:33.279
Yeah.
01:22:34.079 --> 01:22:42.399
So let me ask you this question, and maybe it's not about insuiti foods, but maybe it's about the larger ecosystem.
01:22:44.800 --> 01:22:52.319
In your experience, what do you think other why don't we see more of insuiti?
01:22:52.399 --> 01:22:56.880
Why don't we see more uh local production?
01:22:57.359 --> 01:23:03.039
Why do we see why it seems as if the money is there, right?
01:23:03.359 --> 01:23:07.279
It seems as if the government wants to to to support.
01:23:07.520 --> 01:23:09.279
It seems as if there's PSF.
01:23:09.359 --> 01:23:23.520
There seems as if there's all all these things that should make Rwanda a huge SME uh marketplace where we should be seeing them do well.
01:23:24.239 --> 01:23:29.920
But the truth of the matter is it's not really happening the way we want it to happen.
01:23:30.479 --> 01:23:33.039
Is it something that the government is doing wrong?
01:23:33.199 --> 01:23:39.439
Is it something that the private sector is doing wrong?
01:23:39.600 --> 01:23:41.840
Is it what what's happening?
01:23:41.920 --> 01:23:43.359
Who's at fault here?
01:23:44.239 --> 01:23:47.760
Or maybe there's no fault, and maybe I'm I'm wrong in my assessment.
01:23:48.159 --> 01:23:49.279
Yeah, no, I'm wrong.
01:23:49.760 --> 01:24:03.199
Because uh I mean obviously you could see there are so many people who talk about about I I you know you know the first person I just heard you know saying saying that.
01:24:03.520 --> 01:24:07.520
But I think there's there's so many things.
01:24:07.680 --> 01:24:15.279
It's like I don't know if we have necessar necessarily a like this is a person to blame.
01:24:15.439 --> 01:24:17.199
It's like you can't find that person.
01:24:17.359 --> 01:24:23.359
Yeah, but the thing is it's like is it our culture then as Banyarwanda?
01:24:24.720 --> 01:24:40.079
Okay, let me put it this way I think one it depends to one, there is an entrepreneur, there's there are uh people who are actually making things happen.
01:24:42.000 --> 01:25:30.880
We gotta first talk about that, and then after we go to how they are building what they are building, and there are also some external factors, which is obviously you know access to finance, you know power, water, yeah, you know, infrastructures, but also more on the part of like let's say some of the um I'm I'm kind of like losing this the way the best way to phrase this, but uh maybe for example, let's talk about for example like packaging.
01:25:31.119 --> 01:25:40.960
Because like for maybe like people who are in the food business, like this is the the main thing they struggle with, right?
01:25:41.119 --> 01:25:59.600
Because think about this, like if you go in the supermarket, like if if if I was a business you know, a supermarket owner, except just the fact that I'm random and they want to promote the local the locally made product, it's when you can actually place a product.
01:26:00.800 --> 01:26:05.279
There is this this this product, it has a unique branding.
01:26:05.520 --> 01:26:15.199
And there is also another product that has really like you know, the packaging.
01:26:15.680 --> 01:26:21.119
Because think about this is like shopping is more about like you know, psychology.
01:26:21.439 --> 01:26:31.279
You know, it's it's it's like if like if I see these two products on the market, like how appealing they are before I even consume them.
01:26:31.439 --> 01:26:34.399
Because it's like I want to be sold before I even buy this product.
01:26:35.039 --> 01:26:44.800
I think this is where maybe maybe I can talk about you know, like the industry that I'm in, because I'm into like food, food space, right?
01:26:45.039 --> 01:26:54.960
Like now, if I see this product and another product, then to be honest, majority of the imported products are really like branded world.
01:26:55.119 --> 01:27:01.199
Like the the packaging are unique, the the actual branding is amazing.
01:27:01.359 --> 01:27:03.920
And even the user experience, it's amazing.
01:27:04.079 --> 01:27:16.319
And then for me as a customer, like before, before where I come from, you know, it's like are we are we unconsciously are we lean on the product that gives me what I need?
01:27:17.359 --> 01:27:26.560
And then the funny fact is that most of the we really have like really high-quality products if you see the the content inside.
01:27:26.880 --> 01:27:29.199
It's like they are really, really nice.
01:27:29.760 --> 01:27:33.840
But then that part, now it becomes an issue, right?
01:27:34.239 --> 01:27:37.359
But then it's like now who should I blame?
01:27:37.680 --> 01:27:46.560
Because like for me, like I used to really like cry about the packaging until I realized, like, hey, I just gotta figure it out, you know?
01:27:46.800 --> 01:27:59.520
And then it's like, okay, now if there are if there are no many internal or in house solutions in the country, for example.
01:28:00.239 --> 01:28:01.199
the packaging.
01:28:01.359 --> 01:28:08.800
And then obviously the government is there to you know to push us and then think about it.
01:28:11.520 --> 01:28:17.760
It's like since the 1994 genocide against the Tutsi.
01:28:17.920 --> 01:28:21.520
It's like the country is still young in actual sense.
01:28:21.600 --> 01:28:26.399
It's like there are so many things the country is still learning, in as much as we are also learning, right?
01:28:26.560 --> 01:28:33.600
And that's why I don't really like, I can't say like we are blaming, we are blaming government or whatever.
01:28:33.760 --> 01:28:39.760
It's like they and then first of all they are they're not even entrepreneurs.
01:28:40.079 --> 01:28:51.279
It's like we are the ones to actually you know like provide them the information they need for them to actually create a system that supports us.
01:28:52.159 --> 01:29:09.039
But then then there need to be a need for uh for us to kind of go or basically like syn synchronize how we have together right as as a whole nation.
01:29:09.680 --> 01:29:16.000
Because private sector of course it has to grow and the country grows as well.
01:29:16.319 --> 01:29:25.199
And then there is like one cannot grow after before because if you think about it it's like economy is centered around trade.
01:29:25.840 --> 01:29:29.760
And then the trade is it's it's actually business.
01:29:30.479 --> 01:29:41.119
And then the business they are local private businesses or you know anything about actually exchanging goods.
01:29:41.439 --> 01:30:45.359
So for example my company it it's it has a chance to you know bring a big economy in the country or in as much as maybe Isha or any other companies right but then until there are there's system that also supports me in one in one in one way or another and then then I can get to grow right but but then it's like how does all these people work together to for for for one goodwill and then I think it's it's more about like I don't know it's it's like I feel like for me there is something that is really like heavy on on our company right it's like for me to reach to that level of competing with an imported brand I gotta be able to cut down most of my costs.
01:30:45.760 --> 01:30:46.159
Alright?
01:30:46.319 --> 01:30:52.960
Because if you think about it it's like you bring this imported product like they are really like affordable.
01:30:53.840 --> 01:32:24.000
Or at some point they cannot even be they they might be even be expensive but then due to all these features that we're talking about for example like the packaging how appealing it is then for me to reach it then then I also almost have to do the same or you know just have to I don't know maybe even do better than than than than than than that product and then what's what's gonna happen is like for example in in in my opinion we gotta improve on the on on the packaging for example in our company and inasmuch as other food food food brands as well because that is one of the big issues they have so and then for for us to to be able to do that and it's like if you go in East Africa I cannot be able to get that packaging for example if it's a if it's a a glass container or because you know like you gotta admit that there are some countries that are improved in that that they have went beyond what you could imagine in terms of like industrialization of you know some of the things like packaging for example like China right then we have to import the packaging from China and then once it arrives here it's gonna be very much expensive right and then how does people who understand like where we are all heading help each other for us to be able to compete on the market?
01:32:24.159 --> 01:32:25.279
I don't know if you get what I mean.
01:32:25.520 --> 01:33:06.159
I hear you right and and and I I know this is a conversation that's always saying okay how do we whether it's a government or Ronda how does the government help and support for example I I know years ago I used to work for did some work with RDB and I know that there was the idea of creating a glass a glass manufacturing company to help the issue of packaging because again the pack as you said how does intrudy compete with Heinz Heinz you know I mean like yeah even though you're and it's actually possible very much because the product itself is good.
01:33:06.319 --> 01:33:28.239
Yeah but then again you know you're are you having unfair fights I I one of the things that I've always wondered and this is just my own opinion is the fact that there's only one of you one Trezor out of your class of how many people did you graduate in your year?
01:33:28.560 --> 01:33:54.000
In your class in in that exact 10 15 12 close to 40 so 40 people how many of them started businesses was it more than half probably not like if you remember well like in the in the industry they are there we are in the only person.
01:33:54.399 --> 01:35:29.119
So you think about that yeah yet everyone needs to eat your schooling has taught you all the tools you're living in a country that says it celebrates entrepreneurship there are not a lot of jobs in the market therefore it even makes more sense for you to start your own journey but even despite all those facts you're the only one who actually went into this kind of business and then I start asking myself is it a cultural defect in Bany Rwanda that something about us maybe the fear of failure maybe the fear of of trying something new because when I like I when I travel to say Kenya when I travel to Uganda you go to their supermarkets you go and everyone is a lot of the the the foodstuffs or the products are locally made of course of different differing qualities right you you if you want cheap Ugandan things you'll find them if you want an expensive good expensive product you'll also find it but there's everything for everyone yeah right if you go to Kenya you'll go to certain supermarkets and you'll find you know really nice top top shelf yogurt if you go to a village supermarket you'll also find something that was made by a local villager but it's it's still yogurt.
01:35:30.479 --> 01:35:48.399
For us you'll never you'll not you'll not have that you'll not have people trying out things and trying to make money and trying to to to go into the space of industrialization.
01:35:49.600 --> 01:35:54.399
I mean it's a lot of the things that that you're talking about is not rocket science.
01:35:54.560 --> 01:38:00.479
Yeah right all our parents right have cows right yeah we have cows we have milk now we will find someone or farmer arguing with the government and say hey we want you to increase the price of milk usually it's about 400 francs to take it to the milk collection center so you're going to you're you're going to then argue and argue and say ah but you know the milk is is is we're not getting a good price but it's not that hard to transform milk into cheese milk into ghee milk into uh uh ice cream yeah yogurt it's not that hard yeah but somehow it doesn't happen you know it's it's just like what is happening or you'll see it with fruit right uh right now with chilies we we at least we dry them now right at least we're trying we try the two days but then we could dry other things we could dry mangoes we could dry bananas we could dry we literally could dry limes we could do we know and then we cry and say that hey our farmers are doing badly food costs there's a lot of waste but I'm like I don't understand like so I I wanted to like as you I wanted to because you're in it and I just wanted to fully understand what's happening I think there's still a big gap that you know like a big cultural gap that we still need to bridge especially when it comes to I I feel like there are so many people actually doing an amazing job about it right now.
01:38:00.560 --> 01:38:18.800
Like I mean to be honest I'm very much excited to see like the next like how far this generation is going to is going to is going to reach because it's yeah I can see so many uh entrepreneurs really who are working on it.
01:38:18.960 --> 01:38:32.560
Because I you know by the time we were talking about like drying mangoes like I literally have like five people that I know that are also trying to venture and they're actually doing amazing work.
01:38:33.039 --> 01:39:40.720
You know and uh but the thing is it's like like the land that you have in actual sense it's like we we still have a very very big room to you know increase production still on the on the land that we have you know like if you're talking about mangoes it's like how do we grow you know big production of mangoes and uh and uh we have also people are going to add the value to these mangoes instead of actually you know exporting it fresh then we can actually export it as it as a dried dried mango you know and then that's when actually the economy can you know grow big when you know when it comes to agriculture and then uh obviously it hasn't reached to the level that we should be as as as a country because I think there is there is something fundamentally going wrong with us young people like we don't really like like to try out things.
01:39:41.039 --> 01:40:02.239
Really why I don't know because it's like now now the just the fact that he just said that I I now just got to ask myself like actually like like in my class we I remember there are so many guys really like amazing like really amazing.
01:40:02.399 --> 01:40:29.520
I remember like I used to play basketball big time at school like I wasn't even a big fan of like like school at the time like I was very much interested to go and um you know just play basketball and also like do graphic designing and uh and then make money while at school like I wasn't focusing much about school at the time until I realized like hey actually this is something really like important for my life where I gotta focus on it.
01:40:29.760 --> 01:40:47.359
But I still remember like the people at school like this guy they are coming up with amazing concept where they are still at school before they even graduate and then I'm like but now like they are nowhere to be found.
01:40:47.680 --> 01:40:48.319
Why?
01:40:48.560 --> 01:41:15.920
Why you know but I think there are so many factors that are attached to it and I think some of the factors is is is just like if you think about you know you're building a business and then the pain that you just have to go through like I don't I I don't know like I think people are now like ready for it.
01:41:16.239 --> 01:41:51.119
And it's so rewarding at some point you know and then I think like some people have are like are scared or are afraid to fail like before they even try out that thing you know because right now it's it's I can't even recall like five people like in the class of 40 people but maybe it's because we don't because I I think one of the things as human beings we need examples.
01:41:51.279 --> 01:42:35.520
Yeah right and we need examples that we can feel and touch right and if we think about and that's why I I really wanted to have you on this podcast right it's because yes I've had people like Faustinbundu who's like a multi multi-millionaire right who's big big big big but when someone who's young looks at Foster he doesn't think I can be the next Foster very few if they say he's lucky he's old you know he was rich he's you and the success of of yourself but also the success of your business gives hope.
01:42:36.239 --> 01:42:54.880
It tells someone who is young and has an idea that I don't have to be rich I don't have to come from a permanent family I don't have to to be as we say in Kenyaranda to be successful.
01:42:55.039 --> 01:45:06.399
I don't all I if I can focus because that's my takeaway from you if I can focus if I can humble myself enough to actually do research because you know you you you kind of skipped over it but then it seems like you spent a lot of time doing research you you you studied the craft right so you knew how to create a product but then you didn't just take that the academic side for granted no then you said okay there's a problem that I want to solve okay I thought I could solve it this way it has refused right so now we're talking about the the drying the the home drying chili some people would have stopped at that and said you know what this is not for me let me go and look for a job in in in Katya Mateus but then you continued and said I still um I think there's something here not only then not the the the you didn't only stop there then you said let me try to get some funding a little a bit of money here and there which was not a lot of money it was maybe give or take$1,000 maybe$1,500 and then from that that that the these different steps you were able to build something that sustains not just yourself but 25 other people who have jobs and a salary every month and then also farmers and I think your journey needs to be not just celebrated because we're good at celebrating but also examined because as I like to tell my kids and like to tell people when they look at someone I ask them does that person have two heads right if if do they have one head like you yes so therefore you can be like them too.
01:45:06.640 --> 01:45:35.520
And I think your journey your entrepreneurship journey should be giving a lot of hope to other not just young people to be honest it is also us who are in our mid-40s he it also gives us hope and says you know what we can do this too and where I'm I'm super excited and thrilled to see where where where your journey takes you.
01:45:35.840 --> 01:46:17.199
Before and this is going to be my last question it's been about so it's from 2022 it's been about four years now let's now skip 10 more years where do you see your company and why do you see it where you see it yeah I mean I think I think you know one of the main mission of insu tea is really like how do we take you know brand as board and Tantic flavors you know to the global map.
01:46:17.680 --> 01:46:18.239
Right.
01:46:18.560 --> 01:46:35.680
But also on another hand it's it's it's like we are very much invested in in and seeing like because you know as a brand name as a brand name tells it's like in truth it's it's all about you know togetherness.
01:46:35.840 --> 01:46:48.640
You have always been dreaming about like how do we create a space where your friends would just come through and uh you know share some really like unique you know joyful dining experiences.
01:46:49.199 --> 01:47:38.560
And then and then that kind of like set us set a vision for us in uh in terms of um how that thing would be right so and um our goal in the next 10 years we really want to become around as one of a kind you know artisan and uh culinary inspired sources powerhouse that is global known so that you could be able to actually embark on that mission that we have because it's bigger than us and we want to make sure that it can impact you know global dining experiences with you know the unique flavors that come out of you know the line of Thousand Hills.
01:47:38.880 --> 01:47:40.239
And then how are you doing that?
01:47:40.479 --> 01:48:21.199
So the way we are doing it is is is is is very simple is uh actually through you know crafting these sources and making sure that we are penetrate we are penetrating different you know strategic markets uh which is right now we started off our mission right now is first of all trying to dominate the local market and ensuring that the local people can get a really unique taste experience with different flavors that are craft from our country and then and then moving forward and then we have started to actually tap in on different markets.
01:48:21.439 --> 01:49:41.520
You know now we have tapped on Kenyan market on you know you know in in the in in in Oman in the mid in the Middle East have expanded our product in in the in the UK and uh in the US but uh still still it's it's the journey that grows you are still yeah we are still trying to strategically and sustainably expand uh our product to different global markets and also on another hand what you are doing on the on the part of um because we want to become Ronda is one of a kind casual dining you know chain restaurant that it can uh eventually you know expand on the different global markets and uh our aim is we have started off with you know just you know that online restaurant concept where now it's just a unique kitchen that is here in Kigali behind KBC and then people can just place the other of you know our chicken wings align uh uh alongside the sauces and then we deliver them in their homes in different you know places and then and then the next step is you're basically opening a fully dining dining restaurant.
01:49:41.840 --> 01:50:03.920
And then once we get to that then our aim is truly like becoming the best at that you know concept then once we have it figured out and then you have like the whole system settled then we can then we shall think of like doing like the franchising and then and And then that is basically uh how we are trying to grow it.
01:50:04.399 --> 01:50:28.479
But uh on another hand, we see true tea as uh uh a food brand that had as a cultural and community brand because we are very much about how do we create a product that creates a strong emotional connection between the people that we serve and uh and and and our brand, right?
01:50:28.640 --> 01:50:41.840
And then moving forward, you want to be you want to be remembered as uh uh as a cultural brand that had impacted uh the community in these ways that I'm explaining to you.
01:50:42.159 --> 01:50:46.880
And also you are very much on uh very much investing in our people.
01:50:47.439 --> 01:50:52.000
There is a reason why intrudy was born in uh on this market.
01:50:52.399 --> 01:50:57.439
Uh we want to see many millions of farmers becoming millionaires.
01:50:57.920 --> 01:51:03.520
I like to say that, but that is that like we really like standing that business.
01:51:03.600 --> 01:51:20.720
Like, it's like, how do we ensure that there are so many farmers that can actually become millionaires out of the solution that are providing on the market, and then it can impact different people, you know, different key parts in the in the whole supply chain, right?
01:51:20.960 --> 01:51:38.720
But also on another hand, we want to make sure that uh in the next, you know, you know, five, ten years, uh we want to be employing, uh we want to give young talents opportunities to actually showcase what they are capable of in terms of like job creation.
01:51:38.880 --> 01:51:46.880
And we are envisioning close to you know 500 plus working in uh our business operations.
01:51:47.600 --> 01:51:54.960
But also, as I told you, our aim is to become, you know, Bronda's you know, one of a kind Chile Source powerhouse.
01:51:55.119 --> 01:52:05.039
And then we are thinking that it will be having a really big um production facility uh somewhere in the industrial area.
01:52:05.199 --> 01:52:11.840
Still even right now we are still we are we work in the industrial area, but not in the facility that we are envisioning.
01:52:12.319 --> 01:52:20.960
So we are we are still very much excited to see how this company is is is is growing and uh where it's gonna get.
01:52:21.279 --> 01:52:24.479
But um, yeah, that's that's pretty much no.
01:52:24.560 --> 01:52:28.399
I'm I'm listening I'm I'm excited to see where you go.
01:52:28.720 --> 01:53:06.880
Hopefully, you know, you'll be one of the literally you'd be maybe the third or the second or the third agri food processing company on the stock on the run and stock market if you were to because the reason I'm saying this is because right now there are people who are going to listen to this conversation, and even myself, and I say, ah, I really I I am hearing what he's doing, and I would like to, and we think he's onto something.
01:53:07.119 --> 01:53:10.319
How do we get how do we invest in this?
01:53:10.399 --> 01:53:18.880
How do we invest in this company in Shruti and get it to be that thing that he's envisioning?
01:53:19.039 --> 01:53:35.199
So hopefully in 10 years' time as well, you'll also be a publicly traded company where people can buy shares in Shruti and not just give you money because of the fact that you have amazing, an amazing restaurant and and hot sauces.
01:53:36.000 --> 01:53:39.039
Trazo, thank you so much for joining me today.
01:53:39.199 --> 01:53:40.479
It's been an absolute pleasure.
01:53:40.640 --> 01:53:48.159
You've given me a lot of hope for what is coming down the pipeline.
01:53:48.319 --> 01:53:52.560
If there are more 27-year-olds like you, Rhonda will be okay.
01:53:52.720 --> 01:53:53.279
We'll be okay.
01:53:53.439 --> 01:53:55.760
We'll not just be okay, we'll be better than okay.
01:53:56.000 --> 01:54:04.159
So from the audience, I just want to say thank you and good luck as you keep doing the amazing work that you're doing.
01:54:04.399 --> 01:54:05.039
Yeah, thank you.
01:54:05.119 --> 01:54:05.600
Thank you so much.
01:54:05.760 --> 01:54:09.279
I had so much fun, you know, exchanging this conversation with you.
01:54:09.600 --> 01:54:15.520
And uh looking forward to see the long form podcast grow to become, you know, a really big thing.
01:54:15.600 --> 01:54:17.279
And uh wishing you all the best.
01:54:17.520 --> 01:54:20.560
Yeah, thank you so much, and keep doing the great work.
01:54:20.800 --> 01:54:21.279
Thank you.
01:54:21.600 --> 01:54:25.920
Thank you, BK Arena, for providing a venue for the long-form podcast to record.
01:54:26.159 --> 01:54:33.279
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