Tim Beanland:
0:00
The best way I describe it is I use the analogy of the spacejam movie. And so there's a scene in that movie where the enemies, the monsters get this magic basketball. And then they trick NBA players to touch this magic basketball. And all of a sudden, these high level athletes, they're shooting goes away, their powers go away their ability to jump and dumpers away, they go into hospital just to see how they can get better. And for me, once depression starts, all of the things that make up my personality and who I am, and you said, I was a good bloke before, part of that is my conversation, ability to talk to people, all of that stuff goes away. So when you are hit with the normal challenges of life, your skills that are usually up here, then go down here, because they've been stripped away.
Joel Kleber:
0:56
Tim, thank you very much for joining us today, on the lived experience. Now you're back to the third time, which is fantastic. So pretty, I appreciate you coming back in, you're coming back on because we had a challenge for for a reason. I think it's a really important conversation to have. I don't know if I've heard many people speak about what you're going to talk about today online. But it is a very common thing with bipolar disorder, from what my understanding as well. So we'll just kick off first with 10 A bit about what's been going on and why you want to come back on it and chat about what's been going on today.
Tim Beanland:
1:29
Yeah, of course. So I spent the last 11 months in a depression cycle, it was 11 months of really tough times really bad thought processes, really bad habits. It was triggered by the loss of my dad. But then compounded by other things that stopped due to a life stoppage for for a while. And yeah, we I've been on three times, now I'm a serial offender. So thank you for having me. But I think the thing with bipolar both one and two is you will have times quite simply put where you're doing great. And then you're going to have periods of time where you're not doing great. And I think to be able to document that three times a view is pretty special. Because what we'll get into is, once you're on the back end of recovery with depression, mental health, bipolar, manic disorder, there are some incredible insights that can be gained not only to improve your own well being going forward, but hopefully, myself by sharing today I can I can help someone else in the same spot to if it's just one person. That's that's what this is for today. And also to give myself a blueprint for next time if this happens.
Joel Kleber:
2:52
Now, having having my mum's had a trigger was of multiple triggers. But the one trigger was always was a big problem was if there was a death of a friend, family, relative, whatever it was, right. And this happened multiple times. And as soon as there was a death in our family issues come from one of the listeners large number of family members, even a friend I instantly knew there might have been it was three or four weeks, and then she would go mannequin in the SUV in the psychiatric wards. So that was happened when it apart, father passed away. And that happened when my brother did and a few other times as well. So it seems to be like it's a trigger for like, it's true the vote like, you know, I lost my mom as well, a couple of years ago, I just had a couple of years ago, I didn't have any mental health challenges, but it really it's a real big kick in the guts for anyone. And then you chuck in there as someone who's got a mental, a complex mental health condition, putting that in that frame as well. You know, it can be very, very devastating. And I feel, I feel a lot of sympathy for people who have to who have those challenges and also have to deal with certain things like that, because it's a really hard event to deal with in the normal circumstance. So how did it like, obviously, your father meant a lot to you, you were you're close with your dad. And you know, as you can tell them a lot of people from from meeting and you're a good reflection of your parents and your great blog, so I never met your dad, but I'm sure he was a great filler. And it obviously hit you really, really hard like it would most people so talk to us about Once Once that's happened like Is it is it something where it's just straight away? It's like a like a downward spiral. You just find yourself in bit of shock still and then maybe three to four weeks later, how's that whole thing happened?
Tim Beanland:
4:30
The thing that you mentioned there is like a death in the family is hard for anyone, let alone someone with a preconditioned mental health complex mental health disorder. And it can actually be one of those things that your mind does put a bit of negativity on your twin brother and I have an older sister and we all grieved around that same two to three month mark but then for lack of a better word due to their jobs. They had to kind of get back to reality in a sense and still grieve for that process. But because I had a business it there wasn't anyone forcing me to go back to work. It was all on me. And therefore when the mental health came into it, and then said, No, we're not ready, we're not ready, we're not ready. You then look at your twin brother, you're looking at older sister and go, Well, they're back. Okay, why am I not? And? And yeah, you can say, Well, it's because I have a mental health condition, but your mind doesn't accept that. Your mind says they're already better, so to speak, why are you not better? And I, it hasn't only been until now that I've accepted Well, I had a different path. And they they are still grieving on their their journey as well. So I'm not discounting what they're going through. And if they're listening as well, which I know they wouldn't be. It's more to do with what happened was Dad lost, then you have your what there's no normal grieving process, but you'd have a month or two months out where, where the world would be okay, it's okay, that you're, you're not responding. But then, you know, even the person that passed isn't going to want you to stay down for very long. So what happened for me was when I needed to get going again, my brain didn't let me do that this time. Instead of that, it retreated and and we found ourselves in in the spiral of depression.
Joel Kleber:
6:23
Now the spa the depression, can you describe it to people because I just asked it, I think a lot of people, we say the term depression, a lot of anxiety. And it's one of those things where you can just it's hard to the make someone who doesn't experience it know truly what it is, you know, words is one thing but the person trying to feel a second you try and is your best description of what that feels like, as someone who might struggle to feel the same way.
Tim Beanland:
6:49
The best way I describe it is I use the analogy of the spacejam movie, not the new one, not my daughter, LeBron James, not the bad one. Okay. The Michael Jordan went back to the 90s. It's actually decent. Right, so there's a scene in that movie where the enemies, the monsters, get this magic basketball, and then they they trick NBA players to touch this magic basketball. And all of a sudden, these high level athletes, they're shooting goes away, their powers go away, their ability to jump and dunk goes away, they go into hospital just to just to see how they can get better again. And for me, once depression starts all of the things that make up my personality and who I am and who said I was a good bloke before. Part of that is my conversation ability and being able to talk to people, all of that stuff goes away. So when you are hit with the normal challenges of life, your skills that are usually up here, then go down here because they've been stripped away. So for me, it is a complete lack of function in everyday ability. So that when normal stress comes at you, you can't deal with it. So someone might send me a text message like yourself, you. You did message me said, Tim, what's going on because you knew you've had a lived experience, you knew something would happen. I saw that message, but then didn't have the ability to respond to that message. In a healthy mindset. It's not a hard message to respond to. Hey, Joel. Thanks, mate. Thanks for checking in. I am doing doing a bit tough at the moment. I'll be in touch soon. But instead, my brain looks at and goes on. I haven't been on social media in three months, I haven't been thinking, if I if I click on this now someone will see I'm active. And there's the retreating thing and all of that compounds into I see dollars message but I can't respond to it. Yeah, that's that's what it feels like it feels to sum it up. Again, it just feels like all of your skill sets go away. And the only thing you can do is retreat is go to bed and avoid the world. How did
Joel Kleber:
9:01
Saudi Arabia How did those around you understand when this was happening? Cuz obviously, you got a wife, wife now and you would have friends and family who know you very well. So when this retreating is going on, what do you eat? What in your opinion is the best thing for those around you in regards to what they can do? Because it would be very frustrating for them as well. And they're in regards to seeing this happen. What from your perspective can people do in that scenario,
Tim Beanland:
9:27
they could almost do absolutely anything, but it won't create an impact until the person who is sick takes the responsibility to accept the help lead into their job and then do the actions that it takes for you to get better. So I had about five six people come over to my house this time, amazing individuals, and they all helped in ways that they knew how to help one lady actually clean the dishes that were empty in the sink and ever made took me out on a walk I have a friend sat me down and looked at all of the business tasks that I had to do and, and he said to me at the time said, Tim, this is only two weeks worth of work, you know, you can get on top of this, but I didn't get on top of it, because I wasn't well. And so I had people come and help in all manners of ways this time, because not only Now was it just mental health, but people knew that I'd lost lost my dad and lost him too young, I'm 29 years old, you don't usually be a 29 year old and without a father. So a lot of people help this time. But it wasn't until a critical mass point where I was able to receive that help. So what they can do, to answer the question is hang in there with you understand, say, Hey, I'm here to support you, I'll do whatever you want. Yeah, come come visit, come over to the house, because that stuff really does kick you out of it. And it really does help. But it wasn't until the 1011 month mark, where finally there was an intervention from family. Finally people kind of went to him, it's we understand grief, we understand loss, we understand depression, but it's been 11 months, you need to start doing the activity, because I started covering up things I started started to get into behaviors that are really not appropriate. You know, my wife, spook track, we were doing an activity. And this was like goal setting activity. And it was like, What do you want? How are you going to achieve it? Who wants you to do it, and then we're gonna get there. The only thing I wrote down on that bit of paper was, I want to be myself again. And I didn't even know how to get there. It was like, What do you want, I just want to be myself. Again, the idea of that exercise is to create 567 things, but that was the only thing I could think of. And Lisa could see that I was struggling with this exercise. And she said, Have you been seeing your psychologist? To which I said yes, because your brain doesn't want the argument. And I told my psychologist to actually, if I don't keep up with these appointments, the last time I met with her, so if I don't, I know that it's bad. So if I don't keep up with appointments, you have authority to call either. So Lazar asked me, have you been seen the psychologist? And I said yes. Because I just didn't want didn't want to go down the path of Oh, you're not doing that. All that stuff. Anyway, literally five or 10 minutes later, we're sitting in the same room, leaves his phone rings, while I get a missed call from the psychologist, but I flip it over on my phone. Her phone then rings. Hey, I'm Tim, psychologist. I haven't been in touch with him. Then Lisa, what's what's going on? You told me one thing, I don't think obviously that can be quite dangerous. When it comes to mental health, we sometimes people will, will say they're doing one thing and then not do the other. And it's it started to become behavior that that just isn't me. But it's the depression doing that. And I think that although that was critical, because that started the intervention. That was the point at which all motivation is is a difference between where you where you are and where you want to be. And when that tension gets tight enough, you actually, you actually do the activity. So it wasn't until that point where I hit pretty much rock bottom, lying to covering things up and that things had to change. And I know that's a very roundabout way of you, you asked me What can people do? But I think the answer is it's a combination of them helping and then the recipient of the mental health or the person with the mental health challenges actually accepting help.
Joel Kleber:
13:34
What do you think stops you from accepting help? And is it the is it the chemical imbalance in the brain? The time or what was it? What do you think actually stopped someone accepting the help? Even though when you probably dig down? No, you need it. But like, it just is just the mental illness? You think that is just saying otherwise? Or what do you think's happening there?
Tim Beanland:
13:54
Well, there'll be loads of things. And I can only speak from my personal experience. But the first one would be Yeah, the chemical imbalances in the brain. It's like, even if they give me the help, I don't even know if it's gonna work. The second one is, you don't want to be a burden. When you're, when you're depressed, you think you're a burden on people, which is just an absolute lie to yourself. You're never a burden on people, although, sometimes when you're depressed, you truly believe that and you think that by asking for help, that you'll be a burden and that's completely incorrect. But that's what you feel. That's what I felt. I didn't want to be a burden. And then the last one for me specifically, is throughout my life, I have struggled to ask for help. It doesn't matter if I'm sick or well, it's a it's a bean land trade. Actually, my dad passed down for my grandpa and my dad and we just it's like, you know, I can do this. I can do this myself. And and that's just such it's not a good way Like, yeah, okay, be resourceful, be independent, but not to the point of self destruction. And when it comes to not accepting help from others that when you absolutely need it, and you're self sabotaging, especially when it comes to treatment of bipolar and mental health, for me, it's this time around was very much an acceptance that there's help out there, and you need to lean into it. Why I hadn't accepted it in the past was yet the chemical imbalance, you think you're a burden, and just stubbornness? I couldn't get out of this myself?
Joel Kleber:
15:31
Well, the burden thing, I'm glad you raised that, because that's a really good point. A lot of people connect with my mom in the psychiatric ward and stuff who ended up getting their life, you know, a lot of the times, you know, I don't know how many times it has turned out, but she should say, or, you know, I read the letter or rate, why did they do it, and a lot of the time the word burden did come up, you know, they thought they were going to be a burden on their families, or just the burden to society. And that's a lot of the time the final thought, or thoughts or the reasoning for this decision. Because a lot of people were really cynical and say, you know, if people didn't do life, it's real selfish, you know, it's a real selfish thing to do, and all that sort of stuff, right. Whereas the other side of it is that that person's mindset, it's just, they think they're such a burden to the world, and that the world would be better off without them that they unfortunately choose to do that decision. And we obviously know that no one is a burden to the world. And I'm always getting getting my heart hit, and I hit on a bit with Mark here, but you're missing you know, you're not a burden is a great tagline, to
Tim Beanland:
16:28
being 100%. There's a Jordan Peterson clip going around, and I'm gonna do my version of what he says. And he says, Don't underestimate the hole that you will leave, if you decide to go down the suicide path. Don't underestimate the trauma, that you will leave if you go and do that. Don't underestimate how hard it will be for the people that love you to actually love you that you think you're a burden on, if you go and make that final decision, the hurt that that will actually cause them. And, you know, he goes on to tell a story of a client and a patient that he actually had, he has patients come to him after their family have committed suicide. And one of these patients was one of the clients missed a phone call an hour before the person decided to end their life. And how on earth do you recover from that? How on earth do you you know, only if only I answered, If only I finally I wasn't working if only I wasn't doing that shift. And this is something that Jordan Peterson's Jordan Peterson says and it's that's just such a heavy thing. And the ending of your life is such a final solution to a temporary problem that at the time, we think isn't a temporary problem. I can tell you, I went through financial hardship this time around, I went for business, Stockley and I'm not calling it a failure anymore. It's a stoppage. My uncle pulled me up on the last podcast that I was on. I said it was a but it's not it just was frozen. But because it was such a built thing and identity, I thought that I could no longer do business. But that phrase of ending your life is a permanent solution to a temporary problem is just so true. When you're in it, you don't realize that though you think the temporary problem is a permanent problem. And that's why you decide that that's the option. And we do that pretty selfishly, because we don't realize the pain that we're going to leave, if you end up going into it. Yeah, I
Joel Kleber:
18:37
think yeah, to have that. Everything you said there is spot on. But I think for people in there might have a health condition. Yeah, just the minds never gonna really work to have that. That other empathetic, let's say, mindset to have that perspective, which is the whites is such a really big problem, right? We know that. Yeah. If that person is never a burden to anyone?
Tim Beanland:
19:00
Well, I mean, you're, you're unwell. And your brain is the biochemistry of your brain is telling you that is telling you. That's the that's the way to do it. And, you know, that's the illness. That's I guess that's maybe how the illness gets you, right? So cancer gets you in a particular way, a heart attack gets you because it stops your heart. Depression gets you because your brain tells you that the final solution is the answer. And when you're out of that, you know, the amount of people that and we are getting into pretty heavy stuff. So and I know you're doing your talk, but the amount of people that I've heard this stat, almost 100% of people if they were to, to decide to go off a bridge, the moment that they make that jump, they regret it instantly. And all survivors have those type of attempts. They all say that they all say as soon as they make that jump, they regret it. So if that's the case Hayes, why does it still happen? Well, I'm not a psychiatrist, and psychologist, I'm not qualified to even go into the depths of that. But I do have lived experience. And I know that if you're down and out, and you are in the pits of it, and you think that you're a burden, and you think that what you've done, and what has happened is so incomprehensible. That seems like the only way out, it's we all know it's a tragedy. So, yeah, you might have to put a trigger wanting to start this episode.
Joel Kleber:
20:32
Yeah. Trigger warning, you know, people, we need to deal with reality, right. And this is a reality of life with people like it or not, unfortunately. So it's something that goes on a lot. And it's something that seems to come in waves still, you know, I think mental health movement is, you know, comes in and out. And it sort of added the moment where there's a cost of living crisis and stuff like that. So that's sort of teams to be taking all the
Tim Beanland:
20:55
Yeah, I, you know, the one thing that really annoyed me is I, I got better around Men's Health, men's mental health month, I was I was recovered. So here we go. Let's, let's have a look. You know, what I saw, I saw people doing jumping jacks on LinkedIn for mental health. So people running around, do it do an exercise. And you know, one, it's been two months later, and none of these people probably ever given a thought about it. And
Joel Kleber:
21:23
they didn't swear, then I thought, you're gonna swear? No.
Tim Beanland:
21:26
Because, you know, good on you, you think you're doing the right thing. But I can tell you, there's people doing those jumping jacks that weren't there to support me. There were some of them there. I will say there were some of them that were supporters. But it's very funny how they'll do something like that. Because we think it's helping. And we're told to because it's men's mental health map. So we'll do something. And I'm not saying that if you were one of these people doing jumping jacks that you shouldn't have done it. I'm just saying that have you put much forward into it since then. And it's not just mental health or men's mental health month. It's all the time it's constant. It's not one day, one month, one week, these months are great for awareness. But you know, it's it's borderline hypocrisy with, you know,
Joel Kleber:
22:20
I could go on for an hour like, you know, today Now, you might is a little bit unrelated. But like to me now, you know, there's obviously LinkedIn personal branding and a big LinkedIn, the LinkedIn personal brand posts, they always see you to someone taking a selfie talking about their one time, maybe they had a bit of mental struggle in their life and doing it for a bunch of likes, and comments and stuff, which is really disingenuous than them saying their mental health advocate or something. So it's like, oh, yeah, it's very disingenuous. And I think it's something unfortunately, that mental health, you know, a lot of people take advantage of it now to try and build personal brands with online, you've got no, no idea about it. And that's
Tim Beanland:
22:58
the problem is, is the communication is not coming from the people with lived experience. It's coming from the people that are, step aside. And that's fine, but then it lacks context. It lacks the actual experience that you've had with your mom that I've had in personal circumstances. So if someone comes to me and says, are you okay? And I'm depressed, I can just say yes. Like, I just say, yes. And that's the problem. We have a lot of men, especially with mental health issues, we will just mask it. And how do you how do you get that person with a mental illness to actually talk up about it? Well, I think it's about things like what we're doing today, and having more people like myself, and you talking about the lived experience. And it's, it's why I've been a fan of coming onto the show free time. So you're doing something that's actually practical here, Joel,
Joel Kleber:
23:51
also think about talking about real stuff as well, like for me, like, you know, it's hard to consume mental health content all the time as well, because I don't want to, I keep seeing the same thing, which is like, it's great to see a lot of guys who do, I don't know, kind of the names, and there's some podcasts and blogs, talking about sharing about depression and anxiety, or separations and stuff. It's really, really tough stuff. It's really, really commonplace. But it's generally be the same stuff. For me, the stuff that I really think needs to be talking about is the stuff we've just spoken about regarding end of life. I think that's a big thing. And I like uncomfortable for people. But it's it's a big reality of life. It's a main killer of men under 40. Right. So
Tim Beanland:
24:25
what's the endpoint? It's the endpoint of depression. It's the it's how I like that phrasing. It's how it gets you your cancer gets you by killing your entire body, your heart attack gets you by stopping your heart, your brain tumor gets you by stuffing your brain, your depression gets you by making that final decision and, and that's the illness part of it. So how do we how do we treat the heart attack? Well, we eat better and we exercise how do we treat the mental health? Well, ironically, we also do better and we exercise as well that that helped me
Joel Kleber:
24:59
and also Think talking about more as well, bad things like we don't hear like psychiatric wards, the treatment that is involved like ECP, and convulsive therapy and long term things, what goes on with that, because I think they're important things as well, because a lot of people, you know, might refer to something as loony bin or psychiatric ward or not now actually got what goes in those sorts of joints and sort of the people who work in those places as well, I think do a really good job in our health nurses, for example, but don't get nowhere near the amount of attention as may or kudos as maybe, let's say the general nurse would, but they do a really, really good job. And they're really, really patient people. So the ins and outs of the psychiatric system as well. And I'll give you an example. Like, there people might not know, but those, you know, my mum was in a was in psychiatric wards, and a lot of the time that they had to get rid of people you couldn't was on a holiday there some time. So you had to get him out. And then unfortunately, those people were released too early that ended up going on and, you know, ending their life, you know, and there's no accountability for the services and those sorts of things. These are things that people don't probably know about, but we need to be discussed a bit more. And I love it, interviewing people back from the 80s in the 70s. And stuff when it wasn't really something that was spoken about, but a lot of households knew what went on. And you had fish in all sorts of places and treatments for.
Tim Beanland:
26:12
I mean, that's the privilege that I've had is yes. Okay, we slagged off Ioh K day recited document helps to have math a little bit, right. But the fact that they're there means that we have progress, it means that it means that the conversation is at least there. So these people doing jumping jacks online, when I go to them, and I say yeah, I've had a mental health condition, if they're nothing but supportive, it goes counteractive to what they put out personally online. And the benefit that we live in in 2023, we've mental illness is that conversation is much more wider than it was back in the 70s 80s and 90s. And I feel very privileged to be able to be in a time period where that discussion is much more healthier. Can it be better, of course, everything would be better. But I think I did want to one podcast before this. The amount of people that told me you were brave, or courageous for speaking up or, and that was very nice of everybody to say that. But it's for me, it wasn't a second for the conversation is so wide at the moment, why not have more lived experience out there. And that's a great thing that you know, and to give someone confidence when they are going through this, maybe for the first time, that conversation because it's so much better if you're going through a mental health crisis for the first time at the moment, you can be even more reassured that you're not alone. And I know that's cliche, but it's 2020 freer, the conversation is so much wider. And if you could reach out to 234 people, and there'll be at least one degree of separation between someone that's gone through a similar or they're not the same thing.
Joel Kleber:
27:59
It is what it is why dating but I reckon as well for me, I still don't think bipolar and schizophrenia. I think there's some other Caribbean like conditions like you know, be BPD and stuff that don't get the same dyslexia. I think I've started hearing a bit more about AD D and ADHD, which is good, because I think that's a way now we're learning more in autism as well and in women is especially something that's not really known about it, but it is quite prevalent. But um, I think there's conditions, bipolar and schizophrenia, especially that I know that I still think it's very taboo, and it's not spoken. Yeah, really. And that might be because it affects a small percentage of the population, which it does, but I do not hear it. I don't see many podcast clips of someone talking about bipolar or schizophrenia.
Tim Beanland:
28:47
Every every time I talk about bipolar, I say I've got bipolar, I have to then follow that up with oh, by the way, it's bipolar two, and there's two types of bipolar there's bipolar one, which is what people stereotypically think it is, which is up and down, up and down, up and down. And then there's bipolar two, which is characterized more by lengthy periods of depression, and then an ability to go up a little bit higher. Now myself, I've dealt more with those lengthy depression periods. And then there's been one or two hypo manic episodes where I was only in hospital overnight. So cool, that's great. But why do I have to explain that? You know, why do I have to? Why do I feel the need to tell someone that it's not bipolar one was bipolar two. I think that's because of everything that you just said.
Joel Kleber:
29:36
And so I certainly do a freely speak about it too much. To be honest. It was a 1.5% of the population or 2% or whatever, have it. I don't think it's still I still think it's not spoken about nearly as freely as was some let's say depression or anxiety because depression is always more prevalent, but I think it's obviously up to people did whether they want to talk about it or not, but um, it's not overly In the conversation with those other conditions as well, that I've been hearing over and like, I've noticed a bit with autism actually now, which has been really, really good. I think that's a great a great thing that's slowly been more, let's say, people are more familiar with that iTunes on the spectrum and all those different things. Whereas I think these other things are just not to the level that they just seem to be really forgotten about.
Tim Beanland:
30:23
Again, that's why it's even more important for you to keep doing this podcast. And you've got a very strong purpose behind why you started. But you're only you're one of the few resources that I actually have as someone with bipolar two point people thought, and that's just, you know, I don't think I've actually ever told you that in person or, you know, but but you're one of the only resources I've had to use say, Hey, listen, listen to this, or, or talk to me, when I describe your podcasts. I say, well, Joel set this up, because his mum had bipolar. And he wanted to bring a voice to the more Nisha, so to speak. Mental illness is the dyslexia, the schizophrenia, that bipolar is that ADHD is, and it's great for conversation for depression, anxiety is out there. But let's start talking about the other ones too.
Joel Kleber:
31:11
But it's also more as well, like tend to show yourself as a really good example of someone who's really, really smart, you've got a business, it's more as well, just to show you don't have to be a victim towards that, because I think now especially victimhood, almost in a way, it's sort of, it's celebrated, or it's, it's really, like, you know, it's tolerated, people put your arm around you, and rather than sometimes you just need a bit of, you know, an example to follow, right. So, you know, despite, you know, despite this person having this, look at what they've gone and done, that's why I love chatting to people like yourself and other people on the podcast, who disclose their mental health challenges and who were really successful papers, I think that's really, really important.
Tim Beanland:
31:50
I'm no longer apart from the last 30 minutes of saying and classifying it as mental illness, because everyone is watching. The bipolar two that I have is not a mental illness, it's actually a mental advantage when treated and used properly. So depression gives you a level of learning knowledge, lessons, insights into yourself that a lot of people don't get. A lot of people don't get that stepping away from life for a long time, and then coming back and realizing, well, I've lost everything, I've got a choice as to what I bring back into my life. Now, there's this really cool point when you come out of depression, so the down points here, and then you're coming up, where it's like, you're healthy again. And you can then choose who you bring back into your life, what you bring back into your life and what you actually enjoy and love doing. And hey, why did it fail? Or why did it go wrong? This time around, if I didn't want to continue my business again, and go off and doing knitting somewhere, I could have done that, probably my wife would have thought that was a bit strange. But it just so happens, I love what I do. And a lot of people are the same. And understanding that and having that insight is in such an incredibly powerful thing. On the flip side, the mania gives you a level of drive energy, passion, creativity, motivation, influence over things. And people that other people can't tap into obey. I mentioned if someone has that ability to kind of, and you've probably seen the Mamre, if someone had that ability to harness that manic energy, with a healthy baseline, you'd be unstoppable. Like, you don't have to eat, you don't have to sleep, you don't have to don't eat, sleep ideas coming out, coming out your brain from everywhere. All you need is that practical grounding and implementation and you're gonna go you're gonna go very far, the problem we've been here is it becomes the ideas become flight of ideas, it's all over the place. The no sleep becomes non productive, because now you're you don't think you're tired, but you are tired. The things that you're actually doing, you think you're being productive, but you just get on around in circles. So, so those are the downsides. But if you can flip that into the advantage, I will go on record and say I do not do this every single time. And it's very dangerous to do this. But if I have to work until 1am, or 2am, I just don't take my medication and I don't have to sleep. Like I can just power stuff out now. People say you got 24 hours in the day that's sort of a lie. You've got 10 and then you go to sleep. Now if you've gotten the ability to push that and push that healthfully yourself really that's that's that's an advantage. If I can work two more hours and my competition I'm going to be ahead. I will preface that by saying I do not do that every single time that's gonna concern that he's going to strongly concern some people that I do not do it now because messing around with your medication is not a thing you should be doing. Like that's a strong No, no, I'm just saying that look at what you Have not as a mental illness, but as a mental advantage. What are the things inside your illness that actually give you strength? And for me, it's the insights, reflection, knowledge, and then the passion, energy, motivation and drive
Joel Kleber:
35:15
to look at it. And I was gonna ask you, then, from someone who started, you might you said some really good stuff there about? You started from scratch pretty much again, and you had a pretty successful business going there for a while, then you, obviously this has happened. And you've had to start from scratch again. So how did you choose what to bring back in your life or, because a lot of people might just go, I need to get money, I need to just get going again and take everything back on and then where they go. So how did you? How did you restrain yourself and maybe doing that? And then how did you assess what you were going to bring back in?
Tim Beanland:
35:49
It's very hard, because when you get out of depression, you want to catch up, and you want to get going straightaway. And you just want to go bang and pull it again, I'm back. Let's let's do this. And someone looking at me online could probably see that I'm doing that a little bit of clarifying interstate everywhere. But I've had great help from Victor, to Vichy, and Martin bean land, and Simon Bowden, all three of which have been pushing me in the positive direction, and pulling me back when I when I needed to be pulled back. So when I recovered, the goal was reached back out to the business contacts that you need to in terms of the people that I own work to. And then also reach back out to the a plus players, the people that you know, you love working with the people that you've worked with in the past, and let's see if we can just get some work going. And for me, in particular, it was get to the wedding. So it was three months out before the wedding, when that psychologists call came in to my wife, and at that point, it was like, you're not gonna be there. Mentally, you'll be there physically for the wedding, but you won't be there mentally. So the goal was to just get to the wedding. And let's start, let's just start responding to some of these people. And with the help of Victor Martin and Simon, I devised a plan, we got that list done. But then we also reached out and asked me, So how did I rebuild again? Well, I reached out to the people that knew me in business and knew what had happened. And from a marketing perspective, I also knew they needed videos, because I'd been missing for 11 months. So the best one was one of my clients in Sydney Steve, he'd messaged me about that a microphone he was, you know, I want a microphone. And it sounds months ago, and then I I called him up. I said, Steve, did you saw that microphone, because I didn't even need it. It's okay. And he's like, This is funny. I've been wanting to do videos until I was about to send you a message. But now you're on the phone, what are you doing, you come up to Sydney. And that was the first job that I heard proper paid job was actually flying up to Sydney and doing the work. And that came about by just reaching out to the people that I knew, would respect what I do and also understand the story. Because for me going forward, picking the clients that and this is why doing stuff like this is important. Because picking clients that understand this happens and understand that I not only have a solid plan now to get through it. That's a that's a big sort of tick box in terms of the type of people because there's people that out there that don't understand and that's okay, they just they're gone on their own thing but
Joel Kleber:
38:37
when they by that What do you mean by that?
Tim Beanland:
38:40
I mean they people that don't understand people that will quickly try and move the conversation on so you tell them what happened. And instead of sitting with you heard of it, they just move the conversation on now there's probably two ways two reasons why I guess one someone just might be uncomfortable talking about it so we can't just write them off but they they will just care about themselves and those are the people that don't really understand I believe Yeah have you had similar experiences? I mean, I don't we don't want to harp on negative too much but
Joel Kleber:
39:20
not in regards to me now because I don't really share too much in regards to yeah in a one on one level with what's going on I'm more business so if I'm in a business environment I'm to I'm pretty
Tim Beanland:
39:29
obvious I might say that question was hard to answer because I have a blanket majority of people have been positive and understanding so blanket majority fantastic. Only two people so far have been tricky.
Joel Kleber:
39:45
But listen, perspective that's a lesson point. I was trying to solve it pretty much back is most people are generally good with this sort of stuff you know, and he disclosed and tell people the full situation and don't hide it. Most if you're a decent human being you've got empathy, some at some level most Some people do. If you don't, it's another story. But some people do and they'll get to understand it. So was it in the message? Was it just did you just send something outlining where you've been? Or was it just more of a just a checkbook, general hay or hedge? Oh, it was
Tim Beanland:
40:14
a full, it was a full update was filled up, it was, hey, that's
Joel Kleber:
40:18
an important thing. I think you've been transparent. And you've disclosed that and personal. And as we, as we would know, most 99% of people will have a heart will respond well, to that.
Tim Beanland:
40:30
The best response that I get back from people was, this was the majority of people. It was, first of all, I'm so glad to hear from you. I was worried. Better communication next time would be great. So that Fair enough. Fair, fair enough. But, but hey, let's, let's finish this project. You know, that's fine. Let's finish it. I'm lucky. And you know, you know what we do, because you're very much in graded teams group. And it's, it's like, if someone misses videos, it's it's not like, it's not the end of the world. But it's, a lot of them were actually appreciative, a lot of them said, you know, what we what we planned, my business has actually moved on. So I love the fact that I didn't actually talk about that. So let's, let's just, let's just, and that was great. That majority of people were like, this is fantastic. I love the process. Let's finish the project. You know, only two people were just difficult. And that's just a, I'm not gonna go into what they did or said or whatever, but they know who they are. I'll tell you off camera. Yeah.
Joel Kleber:
41:41
But like for me, like at the moment, where do you see this film? Moving the conversations? What can happen? Because I think a lot of people who do we use, make sure they're things are linked and stuff. And I think, look, most people generally think I want to show that I'm all for mental health, mental health is important to me, whether it actually is or not another story, but I just want to either get the engagement online and give some money to an organization where 80% of its gonna go to Administration and 20% is gonna go to maybe doing something. So what do you think in regards to moving forward, because I think now it's getting lost a bit, obviously, news cycles about interest rates and mortgage stress, which in turn is going to have a mental health effect, you're going to have a lot of people on disability pensions and in commission homes and stuff, and their pensions aren't going up by the same rate that the food is going up, and they really rely on, you know, the food banks and all that sort of stuff. You know, I know my mom, you know, now if we were around, we would be being big stuff. Big strike, the pension would not support us. But um, yeah, that sort of seems to be getting lost at the moment. I don't think it's been really mentioned too much. We're talking about people sleeping in cars and stuff, because horrible we're not talking about the flower effect, it's going to have poor mental health in in regards to the facilities as well, I presume they're gonna be pretty much choppers with people. Well,
Tim Beanland:
42:52
what I what I would do to answer this question, what, what now? Okay. You said it perfectly. About a year ago, in a LinkedIn post, he said, The time for awareness is over. Action is now the thing that needs to happen. We need to stop doing jumping jacks on LinkedIn, and we need to start doing action. Okay. What does action look like? Oh, action looks like the person with a mental illness or advantages, I say, taking responsibility in asking help from at least one person. So the communication needs to be not on the people doing jumping jacks saying it okay, it needs to be on the education on the person with the illness, you know, if I break my arm, I'm not just going to sit here in bed going someone come and help me with my broken arm, you need to take some responsibility on having at least one person. And a lot of people don't have a supportive network like myself, so I have to be very careful. But we do have we're lucky enough in Australia to have the facilities of professionals. So be that an online thing or be that going to your local GP, you're not going to get better until you understand that it requires help to get out of your depression or mental health, you're not going to do it alone, you're going to need someone. And I think the communication in terms of action needs to be first on people like myself in understanding how you can take that action for you. This isn't victim blaming. This is just what has actually worked for me. We have an actual mental illness. I didn't get better until I did the stuff. So the communication needs to be around what can that person do? And then the communication needs to be to their support network and check in that they're actually doing the stuff. So my uncle, how did I actually recover from this thing? Well, I got back on my medication properly, but that was going on for the whole 11 months. I started to go for a walk every Single Day. depressions best friend is darkness, what I would do at the start of every day was, I would wake up, it'd be 10am. Already, I would go into the ensuite that we have, I would shut the blinds in the ensuite and close the door. And then I would shut the border blinds in my room. And then I would close the door. Even though my dog was on the other side, go, let me out, let me know if you let me and I want to I want to jump on the bed. I closed the door and then the room was in complete darkness for the entire day. The moment that I got sunlight in the morning by going on a walk every day, that's when I actually started to get better. So depression is best friend is darkness. So to get away from that depression is I got sunlight in the morning. Even in Melbourne, one of the most gloomy cities on earth, we actually have some sort of sunlight in the morning. So getting out in the sun, for me at least helped so much but doing that consistently. And also having someone like my uncle and my doctors asking me Are you going for these walks every day. So but action to take place, we need the practical tools that will help us get better. So for me it's exercise, getting back in touch with people playing guitar, again, playing sport again, getting active and then you know actually doing something that I'm passionate and purposeful about those are that's a recipe for me. For you. It might be something different. But then you need someone there. If you're fortunate enough to have a wife like I do, who will now check in on that stuff. Oh, two hasn't spoken to Robin a while. Oh, okay. That's strange. Tim has been gone and hung out with someone. You know, he hasn't done any filming lately, what's going on here? Easy, just telling me that it's all online. But hang on, like, at least every month, he's up in Brisbane or Sydney like that stopped. Why is that stopped. So questioning the changes in someone's behavior as well is also quite helpful. And those tools need to be given not only to the person with the mental illness, but also to the support network. And it's not about Yeah, it's not about awareness. It's about those those action points. And that's, I'm just speaking from pure experience here. So you know, and I've said some pretty tough things, but I needed the tough things for me to get better.
Joel Kleber:
47:06
And also think if people have complex mental health issues, to use the NDIS, you can get a package from the NDIS, you'll get assessed and stuff. And there's a lot of good support through the NDIS there's a lot of Milan had a really good caseworker who was with her for like 15 years, and she was invaluable. Like, he was annoying, she got my mother sector heaps of past issues our most use. Well, what happened was, but that case will get newer, so well. And then over the years, when the NDIS packages got there, you know, she had a significant amount of money to get to people for nutrition and for gym and for someone just coming to visit her and take her out all these things are available for people, especially with really complex mental health issues, if they're on a Disability Support Pension, they can have access to these sorts of things, a lot of people might crap on the government for different things. But I think the NDIS in regards to my family, especially with my mum towards the end, was really, really, really important. You know, there might have been a few bullets going on every now and again. But um, from what I saw, from a support point of view, there was a lot of good stuff that was available. And it's and it was well worth people if they do have a complex mental health challenge. And there are disability support pension, if they don't have the ability to have a family or something they might have a lot of people have might be alone, they might be an orphan, had no family and whatever, but they can use those NDIS resources. And also there's the IR community groups with lived experience people, there's one called Finding north and stuff where they can jump on to a zoom with people from all around Australia, who will have maybe bipolar schizophrenia. And they'll just talk, you know, and that community aspect is really, really important. So I think no matter what your circumstance is, you can have something in place, which works for you. So you've got what works for you, which is fantastic. But if you are someone who does need that extra government support, the NDIS what Bill Shorten done, I think has been quite fantastic. To be honest, I'm not political either way, but I think, yeah, just from knowing from first experience with how my Mum used it and the amount of money she got from the NDIS it was definitely we're very lucky to live in Australia.
Tim Beanland:
49:06
Yeah, well, everyone needs a bass line. Everyone needs a bass, because medication costs money going and seeing psychologist, psychiatrist cost money. So everyone should have that ability to have access to these tools. And if that means you go on an NDIS or a Centrelink or whatever the scheme is, that's great because you use that to get better. And the thing is you do if you don't have to you don't stay there for ever. You use that as a springboard and you use that to get better. And if that's the Help system that you need to get better, don't feel ashamed to go in and using it. Because it's there
Joel Kleber:
49:51
and you're right and the reality is saves lives. It saves lives you know, having that extra support that it's not a it's not going to be it's not detrimental. It's only A positive sort of thing. And I think people don't realize that as well, like they think, you know, there's organizations like beyondblue, and lifeline, that's all there is mental health, there's a far more, there's a lot of places that were always, you know, half of workers always will have a mental health check condition as well. So you know, the person who came and took my mom out for a coffee or whatever, had bipolar as well. And that was her job. And, you know, I mean, so that's those sorts of organizations, there's a few of them. But that's where for me the we can make a big impact is get rid of these top level awareness charities, which does the hotlines to more of these other ones, which are more grassroots and these community based care and these things in home community care, as well as a big one. That's a huge thing where you can kick people out of hospitals by trying to help them at their home, as opposed to waiting till they get into the state when they need to.
Tim Beanland:
50:47
Do you ask every guest that question like what what should we do after awareness of you? Or at least not every but not not everyone? Not everyone? You've got? You've got at least 510 answers a little bit.
Joel Kleber:
50:58
It's more more asked the people have asked more than people who are spoken who have bipolar disorder will have a complex manner of chances ask them because I think it affects them the most, or sometimes I ask young carers or people who have had a parent with that. And I've asked Brad McCune as well, because Brad and Brad because beyondblue ambassador to him, and he was the one he did say that, you know, the time for talking is over and all that sort of stuff. So I got that from him a couple of years ago. Yeah, that's more about Yeah, always asking is that just think it's very, what more can be done besides what we're doing at the moment? Is it allocation of money to more grassroots organizations as a more awareness or more different conditions? I don't know.
Tim Beanland:
51:39
Yeah, I've just I've just had an idea. I'll talk to you about it.
Joel Kleber:
51:43
Yeah. But the things that I think you mentioned in it, like people would know, they're like, I'm glad you said the basic stuff. You know, getting outside. I think you mentioned walking, walking your dog as well, before that was carrying a dog lift anyone's mood, right.
Tim Beanland:
51:57
So there was there was a point. So I had the intervention and family came in and they did everything they could but then a Monday came around and leaves and went back to work. And there was this turning point between am I going to take the action? Or am I just going to fall back into the pit of depression. And it was amazing, because as soon as that habit, I told them, I told my daughter they have Sunday leads will their leaves. I was like we're going for a walk tomorrow, we're gonna hold the dog for a walk tomorrow. Because she hadn't been for walking well, anyway. So Lisa goes off to work comes to about nine o'clock 930 where I could have fallen back into that old pattern. And the dog comes running and jumping up on the bed going, you said we go. And I went for a walk. And that was that was the start of and then I called my uncle and I said I'm out and free. We got me out of the dorm coming out so
Joel Kleber:
52:50
and it's so important. Like my mom had a full time. Like it wasn't a full time but she always he had a nutritionist, he had a gym, past exercise, even though she didn't follow nutrition at us, or she didn't go to the gym overly much. But she thought, you know, mind, she goes, I'm eating well, and I'm going to the gym, and I knew she wasn't or I'm going to see my nutritionist and stuff. They're telling me this, I'm doing all these exercises. But it's those, they're there for a reason, right? They're things that people know they should do. And they don't do it. And you've just got to be really ultra consistent with it like this, you know, I've got an app on my phone called streaks Nash streaks, basically, I have different things which I like gamified like if I don't gamify and I have it on my phone and it has they're basically walk 6000 steps, listen to an audio book and start to tick it off. And I get to deal with
Tim Beanland:
53:35
quantities quantities have an app where they give you conscious points if you hit a certain amount of steps. Oh, really? Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah, I'm gonna get my quantity split. So you don't yell at like five points at 10 points or whatever, but it adds up. You can then use that on groceries and yeah, I think that's gamify it. Yeah,
Joel Kleber:
53:54
gasifier? Yeah, exactly what I find out what works for you and gamify. But Tim, mate, thanks for jumping on. You're welcome. I believe that is there. And obviously, if people want to find out more about you, they can just check you out on LinkedIn, Timberland, how many followers you got now 7000 6000.
Tim Beanland:
54:10
LinkedIn is about the 4000 teatox 4500. But I've started a new one just to trial, some things. Reach out to me on any platform, more than happy to have a conversation with you if you say something that's super complex, and I will just push you to support but in a supportive and encouraging way. So very much looking forward to anyone who wants to reach out please, please do message me. I'm more than happy to listen to help. And Joel, thank you again for having me on time. I think I need to extend the favor again. You've been on Have you been on my podcast yet?
Joel Kleber:
54:48
In the experts blueprint? Yeah. Yeah, I think it was. Yeah, it was.
Tim Beanland:
54:53
Well, come on again.
Joel Kleber:
54:58
I think that what you Would you read in that? What would you say? Very unique content in regards to this space? Again? See, I haven't some of those things you said I don't think we've been spoken about at all online. So we'll pause there. Hopefully I don't speak. That's so big thank you to Tim being landless, sharing his story in the lived experience if you want to share yours as well had the lived experience podcast.com and contact me via the contact form I'd love to have you on I love sharing stories like Tim's I just think it's such a good one to hear. It's such a good rule like perspective on mental health. It's not the typical stuff you'll see a lot on now which is fantastic, which is depression and anxiety, sort of stuff, you know, talking about bipolar and the depression which comes with that. And what actually happens to someone. It just hits it home, how much more work we're going to do in this space and how much more work needs to be done in our conversations to sort of cover these areas and big thanks to Tim Tim for that there's so much great content in that as well. If you do enjoy it or think it is valuable song please share it. If you did like it as well please leave a review. Until next episode. I hope you have a great week.
0:00
The best way I describe it is I use the analogy of the spacejam movie. And so there's a scene in that movie where the enemies, the monsters get this magic basketball. And then they trick NBA players to touch this magic basketball. And all of a sudden, these high level athletes, they're shooting goes away, their powers go away their ability to jump and dumpers away, they go into hospital just to see how they can get better. And for me, once depression starts, all of the things that make up my personality and who I am, and you said, I was a good bloke before, part of that is my conversation, ability to talk to people, all of that stuff goes away. So when you are hit with the normal challenges of life, your skills that are usually up here, then go down here, because they've been stripped away.
Joel Kleber:
0:56
Tim, thank you very much for joining us today, on the lived experience. Now you're back to the third time, which is fantastic. So pretty, I appreciate you coming back in, you're coming back on because we had a challenge for for a reason. I think it's a really important conversation to have. I don't know if I've heard many people speak about what you're going to talk about today online. But it is a very common thing with bipolar disorder, from what my understanding as well. So we'll just kick off first with 10 A bit about what's been going on and why you want to come back on it and chat about what's been going on today.
Tim Beanland:
1:29
Yeah, of course. So I spent the last 11 months in a depression cycle, it was 11 months of really tough times really bad thought processes, really bad habits. It was triggered by the loss of my dad. But then compounded by other things that stopped due to a life stoppage for for a while. And yeah, we I've been on three times, now I'm a serial offender. So thank you for having me. But I think the thing with bipolar both one and two is you will have times quite simply put where you're doing great. And then you're going to have periods of time where you're not doing great. And I think to be able to document that three times a view is pretty special. Because what we'll get into is, once you're on the back end of recovery with depression, mental health, bipolar, manic disorder, there are some incredible insights that can be gained not only to improve your own well being going forward, but hopefully, myself by sharing today I can I can help someone else in the same spot to if it's just one person. That's that's what this is for today. And also to give myself a blueprint for next time if this happens.
Joel Kleber:
2:52
Now, having having my mum's had a trigger was of multiple triggers. But the one trigger was always was a big problem was if there was a death of a friend, family, relative, whatever it was, right. And this happened multiple times. And as soon as there was a death in our family issues come from one of the listeners large number of family members, even a friend I instantly knew there might have been it was three or four weeks, and then she would go mannequin in the SUV in the psychiatric wards. So that was happened when it apart, father passed away. And that happened when my brother did and a few other times as well. So it seems to be like it's a trigger for like, it's true the vote like, you know, I lost my mom as well, a couple of years ago, I just had a couple of years ago, I didn't have any mental health challenges, but it really it's a real big kick in the guts for anyone. And then you chuck in there as someone who's got a mental, a complex mental health condition, putting that in that frame as well. You know, it can be very, very devastating. And I feel, I feel a lot of sympathy for people who have to who have those challenges and also have to deal with certain things like that, because it's a really hard event to deal with in the normal circumstance. So how did it like, obviously, your father meant a lot to you, you were you're close with your dad. And you know, as you can tell them a lot of people from from meeting and you're a good reflection of your parents and your great blog, so I never met your dad, but I'm sure he was a great filler. And it obviously hit you really, really hard like it would most people so talk to us about Once Once that's happened like Is it is it something where it's just straight away? It's like a like a downward spiral. You just find yourself in bit of shock still and then maybe three to four weeks later, how's that whole thing happened?
Tim Beanland:
4:30
The thing that you mentioned there is like a death in the family is hard for anyone, let alone someone with a preconditioned mental health complex mental health disorder. And it can actually be one of those things that your mind does put a bit of negativity on your twin brother and I have an older sister and we all grieved around that same two to three month mark but then for lack of a better word due to their jobs. They had to kind of get back to reality in a sense and still grieve for that process. But because I had a business it there wasn't anyone forcing me to go back to work. It was all on me. And therefore when the mental health came into it, and then said, No, we're not ready, we're not ready, we're not ready. You then look at your twin brother, you're looking at older sister and go, Well, they're back. Okay, why am I not? And? And yeah, you can say, Well, it's because I have a mental health condition, but your mind doesn't accept that. Your mind says they're already better, so to speak, why are you not better? And I, it hasn't only been until now that I've accepted Well, I had a different path. And they they are still grieving on their their journey as well. So I'm not discounting what they're going through. And if they're listening as well, which I know they wouldn't be. It's more to do with what happened was Dad lost, then you have your what there's no normal grieving process, but you'd have a month or two months out where, where the world would be okay, it's okay, that you're, you're not responding. But then, you know, even the person that passed isn't going to want you to stay down for very long. So what happened for me was when I needed to get going again, my brain didn't let me do that this time. Instead of that, it retreated and and we found ourselves in in the spiral of depression.
Joel Kleber:
6:23
Now the spa the depression, can you describe it to people because I just asked it, I think a lot of people, we say the term depression, a lot of anxiety. And it's one of those things where you can just it's hard to the make someone who doesn't experience it know truly what it is, you know, words is one thing but the person trying to feel a second you try and is your best description of what that feels like, as someone who might struggle to feel the same way.
Tim Beanland:
6:49
The best way I describe it is I use the analogy of the spacejam movie, not the new one, not my daughter, LeBron James, not the bad one. Okay. The Michael Jordan went back to the 90s. It's actually decent. Right, so there's a scene in that movie where the enemies, the monsters, get this magic basketball, and then they they trick NBA players to touch this magic basketball. And all of a sudden, these high level athletes, they're shooting goes away, their powers go away, their ability to jump and dunk goes away, they go into hospital just to just to see how they can get better again. And for me, once depression starts all of the things that make up my personality and who I am and who said I was a good bloke before. Part of that is my conversation ability and being able to talk to people, all of that stuff goes away. So when you are hit with the normal challenges of life, your skills that are usually up here, then go down here because they've been stripped away. So for me, it is a complete lack of function in everyday ability. So that when normal stress comes at you, you can't deal with it. So someone might send me a text message like yourself, you. You did message me said, Tim, what's going on because you knew you've had a lived experience, you knew something would happen. I saw that message, but then didn't have the ability to respond to that message. In a healthy mindset. It's not a hard message to respond to. Hey, Joel. Thanks, mate. Thanks for checking in. I am doing doing a bit tough at the moment. I'll be in touch soon. But instead, my brain looks at and goes on. I haven't been on social media in three months, I haven't been thinking, if I if I click on this now someone will see I'm active. And there's the retreating thing and all of that compounds into I see dollars message but I can't respond to it. Yeah, that's that's what it feels like it feels to sum it up. Again, it just feels like all of your skill sets go away. And the only thing you can do is retreat is go to bed and avoid the world. How did
Joel Kleber:
9:01
Saudi Arabia How did those around you understand when this was happening? Cuz obviously, you got a wife, wife now and you would have friends and family who know you very well. So when this retreating is going on, what do you eat? What in your opinion is the best thing for those around you in regards to what they can do? Because it would be very frustrating for them as well. And they're in regards to seeing this happen. What from your perspective can people do in that scenario,
Tim Beanland:
9:27
they could almost do absolutely anything, but it won't create an impact until the person who is sick takes the responsibility to accept the help lead into their job and then do the actions that it takes for you to get better. So I had about five six people come over to my house this time, amazing individuals, and they all helped in ways that they knew how to help one lady actually clean the dishes that were empty in the sink and ever made took me out on a walk I have a friend sat me down and looked at all of the business tasks that I had to do and, and he said to me at the time said, Tim, this is only two weeks worth of work, you know, you can get on top of this, but I didn't get on top of it, because I wasn't well. And so I had people come and help in all manners of ways this time, because not only Now was it just mental health, but people knew that I'd lost lost my dad and lost him too young, I'm 29 years old, you don't usually be a 29 year old and without a father. So a lot of people help this time. But it wasn't until a critical mass point where I was able to receive that help. So what they can do, to answer the question is hang in there with you understand, say, Hey, I'm here to support you, I'll do whatever you want. Yeah, come come visit, come over to the house, because that stuff really does kick you out of it. And it really does help. But it wasn't until the 1011 month mark, where finally there was an intervention from family. Finally people kind of went to him, it's we understand grief, we understand loss, we understand depression, but it's been 11 months, you need to start doing the activity, because I started covering up things I started started to get into behaviors that are really not appropriate. You know, my wife, spook track, we were doing an activity. And this was like goal setting activity. And it was like, What do you want? How are you going to achieve it? Who wants you to do it, and then we're gonna get there. The only thing I wrote down on that bit of paper was, I want to be myself again. And I didn't even know how to get there. It was like, What do you want, I just want to be myself. Again, the idea of that exercise is to create 567 things, but that was the only thing I could think of. And Lisa could see that I was struggling with this exercise. And she said, Have you been seeing your psychologist? To which I said yes, because your brain doesn't want the argument. And I told my psychologist to actually, if I don't keep up with these appointments, the last time I met with her, so if I don't, I know that it's bad. So if I don't keep up with appointments, you have authority to call either. So Lazar asked me, have you been seen the psychologist? And I said yes. Because I just didn't want didn't want to go down the path of Oh, you're not doing that. All that stuff. Anyway, literally five or 10 minutes later, we're sitting in the same room, leaves his phone rings, while I get a missed call from the psychologist, but I flip it over on my phone. Her phone then rings. Hey, I'm Tim, psychologist. I haven't been in touch with him. Then Lisa, what's what's going on? You told me one thing, I don't think obviously that can be quite dangerous. When it comes to mental health, we sometimes people will, will say they're doing one thing and then not do the other. And it's it started to become behavior that that just isn't me. But it's the depression doing that. And I think that although that was critical, because that started the intervention. That was the point at which all motivation is is a difference between where you where you are and where you want to be. And when that tension gets tight enough, you actually, you actually do the activity. So it wasn't until that point where I hit pretty much rock bottom, lying to covering things up and that things had to change. And I know that's a very roundabout way of you, you asked me What can people do? But I think the answer is it's a combination of them helping and then the recipient of the mental health or the person with the mental health challenges actually accepting help.
Joel Kleber:
13:34
What do you think stops you from accepting help? And is it the is it the chemical imbalance in the brain? The time or what was it? What do you think actually stopped someone accepting the help? Even though when you probably dig down? No, you need it. But like, it just is just the mental illness? You think that is just saying otherwise? Or what do you think's happening there?
Tim Beanland:
13:54
Well, there'll be loads of things. And I can only speak from my personal experience. But the first one would be Yeah, the chemical imbalances in the brain. It's like, even if they give me the help, I don't even know if it's gonna work. The second one is, you don't want to be a burden. When you're, when you're depressed, you think you're a burden on people, which is just an absolute lie to yourself. You're never a burden on people, although, sometimes when you're depressed, you truly believe that and you think that by asking for help, that you'll be a burden and that's completely incorrect. But that's what you feel. That's what I felt. I didn't want to be a burden. And then the last one for me specifically, is throughout my life, I have struggled to ask for help. It doesn't matter if I'm sick or well, it's a it's a bean land trade. Actually, my dad passed down for my grandpa and my dad and we just it's like, you know, I can do this. I can do this myself. And and that's just such it's not a good way Like, yeah, okay, be resourceful, be independent, but not to the point of self destruction. And when it comes to not accepting help from others that when you absolutely need it, and you're self sabotaging, especially when it comes to treatment of bipolar and mental health, for me, it's this time around was very much an acceptance that there's help out there, and you need to lean into it. Why I hadn't accepted it in the past was yet the chemical imbalance, you think you're a burden, and just stubbornness? I couldn't get out of this myself?
Joel Kleber:
15:31
Well, the burden thing, I'm glad you raised that, because that's a really good point. A lot of people connect with my mom in the psychiatric ward and stuff who ended up getting their life, you know, a lot of the times, you know, I don't know how many times it has turned out, but she should say, or, you know, I read the letter or rate, why did they do it, and a lot of the time the word burden did come up, you know, they thought they were going to be a burden on their families, or just the burden to society. And that's a lot of the time the final thought, or thoughts or the reasoning for this decision. Because a lot of people were really cynical and say, you know, if people didn't do life, it's real selfish, you know, it's a real selfish thing to do, and all that sort of stuff, right. Whereas the other side of it is that that person's mindset, it's just, they think they're such a burden to the world, and that the world would be better off without them that they unfortunately choose to do that decision. And we obviously know that no one is a burden to the world. And I'm always getting getting my heart hit, and I hit on a bit with Mark here, but you're missing you know, you're not a burden is a great tagline, to
Tim Beanland:
16:28
being 100%. There's a Jordan Peterson clip going around, and I'm gonna do my version of what he says. And he says, Don't underestimate the hole that you will leave, if you decide to go down the suicide path. Don't underestimate the trauma, that you will leave if you go and do that. Don't underestimate how hard it will be for the people that love you to actually love you that you think you're a burden on, if you go and make that final decision, the hurt that that will actually cause them. And, you know, he goes on to tell a story of a client and a patient that he actually had, he has patients come to him after their family have committed suicide. And one of these patients was one of the clients missed a phone call an hour before the person decided to end their life. And how on earth do you recover from that? How on earth do you you know, only if only I answered, If only I finally I wasn't working if only I wasn't doing that shift. And this is something that Jordan Peterson's Jordan Peterson says and it's that's just such a heavy thing. And the ending of your life is such a final solution to a temporary problem that at the time, we think isn't a temporary problem. I can tell you, I went through financial hardship this time around, I went for business, Stockley and I'm not calling it a failure anymore. It's a stoppage. My uncle pulled me up on the last podcast that I was on. I said it was a but it's not it just was frozen. But because it was such a built thing and identity, I thought that I could no longer do business. But that phrase of ending your life is a permanent solution to a temporary problem is just so true. When you're in it, you don't realize that though you think the temporary problem is a permanent problem. And that's why you decide that that's the option. And we do that pretty selfishly, because we don't realize the pain that we're going to leave, if you end up going into it. Yeah, I
Joel Kleber:
18:37
think yeah, to have that. Everything you said there is spot on. But I think for people in there might have a health condition. Yeah, just the minds never gonna really work to have that. That other empathetic, let's say, mindset to have that perspective, which is the whites is such a really big problem, right? We know that. Yeah. If that person is never a burden to anyone?
Tim Beanland:
19:00
Well, I mean, you're, you're unwell. And your brain is the biochemistry of your brain is telling you that is telling you. That's the that's the way to do it. And, you know, that's the illness. That's I guess that's maybe how the illness gets you, right? So cancer gets you in a particular way, a heart attack gets you because it stops your heart. Depression gets you because your brain tells you that the final solution is the answer. And when you're out of that, you know, the amount of people that and we are getting into pretty heavy stuff. So and I know you're doing your talk, but the amount of people that I've heard this stat, almost 100% of people if they were to, to decide to go off a bridge, the moment that they make that jump, they regret it instantly. And all survivors have those type of attempts. They all say that they all say as soon as they make that jump, they regret it. So if that's the case Hayes, why does it still happen? Well, I'm not a psychiatrist, and psychologist, I'm not qualified to even go into the depths of that. But I do have lived experience. And I know that if you're down and out, and you are in the pits of it, and you think that you're a burden, and you think that what you've done, and what has happened is so incomprehensible. That seems like the only way out, it's we all know it's a tragedy. So, yeah, you might have to put a trigger wanting to start this episode.
Joel Kleber:
20:32
Yeah. Trigger warning, you know, people, we need to deal with reality, right. And this is a reality of life with people like it or not, unfortunately. So it's something that goes on a lot. And it's something that seems to come in waves still, you know, I think mental health movement is, you know, comes in and out. And it sort of added the moment where there's a cost of living crisis and stuff like that. So that's sort of teams to be taking all the
Tim Beanland:
20:55
Yeah, I, you know, the one thing that really annoyed me is I, I got better around Men's Health, men's mental health month, I was I was recovered. So here we go. Let's, let's have a look. You know, what I saw, I saw people doing jumping jacks on LinkedIn for mental health. So people running around, do it do an exercise. And you know, one, it's been two months later, and none of these people probably ever given a thought about it. And
Joel Kleber:
21:23
they didn't swear, then I thought, you're gonna swear? No.
Tim Beanland:
21:26
Because, you know, good on you, you think you're doing the right thing. But I can tell you, there's people doing those jumping jacks that weren't there to support me. There were some of them there. I will say there were some of them that were supporters. But it's very funny how they'll do something like that. Because we think it's helping. And we're told to because it's men's mental health map. So we'll do something. And I'm not saying that if you were one of these people doing jumping jacks that you shouldn't have done it. I'm just saying that have you put much forward into it since then. And it's not just mental health or men's mental health month. It's all the time it's constant. It's not one day, one month, one week, these months are great for awareness. But you know, it's it's borderline hypocrisy with, you know,
Joel Kleber:
22:20
I could go on for an hour like, you know, today Now, you might is a little bit unrelated. But like to me now, you know, there's obviously LinkedIn personal branding and a big LinkedIn, the LinkedIn personal brand posts, they always see you to someone taking a selfie talking about their one time, maybe they had a bit of mental struggle in their life and doing it for a bunch of likes, and comments and stuff, which is really disingenuous than them saying their mental health advocate or something. So it's like, oh, yeah, it's very disingenuous. And I think it's something unfortunately, that mental health, you know, a lot of people take advantage of it now to try and build personal brands with online, you've got no, no idea about it. And that's
Tim Beanland:
22:58
the problem is, is the communication is not coming from the people with lived experience. It's coming from the people that are, step aside. And that's fine, but then it lacks context. It lacks the actual experience that you've had with your mom that I've had in personal circumstances. So if someone comes to me and says, are you okay? And I'm depressed, I can just say yes. Like, I just say, yes. And that's the problem. We have a lot of men, especially with mental health issues, we will just mask it. And how do you how do you get that person with a mental illness to actually talk up about it? Well, I think it's about things like what we're doing today, and having more people like myself, and you talking about the lived experience. And it's, it's why I've been a fan of coming onto the show free time. So you're doing something that's actually practical here, Joel,
Joel Kleber:
23:51
also think about talking about real stuff as well, like for me, like, you know, it's hard to consume mental health content all the time as well, because I don't want to, I keep seeing the same thing, which is like, it's great to see a lot of guys who do, I don't know, kind of the names, and there's some podcasts and blogs, talking about sharing about depression and anxiety, or separations and stuff. It's really, really tough stuff. It's really, really commonplace. But it's generally be the same stuff. For me, the stuff that I really think needs to be talking about is the stuff we've just spoken about regarding end of life. I think that's a big thing. And I like uncomfortable for people. But it's it's a big reality of life. It's a main killer of men under 40. Right. So
Tim Beanland:
24:25
what's the endpoint? It's the endpoint of depression. It's the it's how I like that phrasing. It's how it gets you your cancer gets you by killing your entire body, your heart attack gets you by stopping your heart, your brain tumor gets you by stuffing your brain, your depression gets you by making that final decision and, and that's the illness part of it. So how do we how do we treat the heart attack? Well, we eat better and we exercise how do we treat the mental health? Well, ironically, we also do better and we exercise as well that that helped me
Joel Kleber:
24:59
and also Think talking about more as well, bad things like we don't hear like psychiatric wards, the treatment that is involved like ECP, and convulsive therapy and long term things, what goes on with that, because I think they're important things as well, because a lot of people, you know, might refer to something as loony bin or psychiatric ward or not now actually got what goes in those sorts of joints and sort of the people who work in those places as well, I think do a really good job in our health nurses, for example, but don't get nowhere near the amount of attention as may or kudos as maybe, let's say the general nurse would, but they do a really, really good job. And they're really, really patient people. So the ins and outs of the psychiatric system as well. And I'll give you an example. Like, there people might not know, but those, you know, my mum was in a was in psychiatric wards, and a lot of the time that they had to get rid of people you couldn't was on a holiday there some time. So you had to get him out. And then unfortunately, those people were released too early that ended up going on and, you know, ending their life, you know, and there's no accountability for the services and those sorts of things. These are things that people don't probably know about, but we need to be discussed a bit more. And I love it, interviewing people back from the 80s in the 70s. And stuff when it wasn't really something that was spoken about, but a lot of households knew what went on. And you had fish in all sorts of places and treatments for.
Tim Beanland:
26:12
I mean, that's the privilege that I've had is yes. Okay, we slagged off Ioh K day recited document helps to have math a little bit, right. But the fact that they're there means that we have progress, it means that it means that the conversation is at least there. So these people doing jumping jacks online, when I go to them, and I say yeah, I've had a mental health condition, if they're nothing but supportive, it goes counteractive to what they put out personally online. And the benefit that we live in in 2023, we've mental illness is that conversation is much more wider than it was back in the 70s 80s and 90s. And I feel very privileged to be able to be in a time period where that discussion is much more healthier. Can it be better, of course, everything would be better. But I think I did want to one podcast before this. The amount of people that told me you were brave, or courageous for speaking up or, and that was very nice of everybody to say that. But it's for me, it wasn't a second for the conversation is so wide at the moment, why not have more lived experience out there. And that's a great thing that you know, and to give someone confidence when they are going through this, maybe for the first time, that conversation because it's so much better if you're going through a mental health crisis for the first time at the moment, you can be even more reassured that you're not alone. And I know that's cliche, but it's 2020 freer, the conversation is so much wider. And if you could reach out to 234 people, and there'll be at least one degree of separation between someone that's gone through a similar or they're not the same thing.
Joel Kleber:
27:59
It is what it is why dating but I reckon as well for me, I still don't think bipolar and schizophrenia. I think there's some other Caribbean like conditions like you know, be BPD and stuff that don't get the same dyslexia. I think I've started hearing a bit more about AD D and ADHD, which is good, because I think that's a way now we're learning more in autism as well and in women is especially something that's not really known about it, but it is quite prevalent. But um, I think there's conditions, bipolar and schizophrenia, especially that I know that I still think it's very taboo, and it's not spoken. Yeah, really. And that might be because it affects a small percentage of the population, which it does, but I do not hear it. I don't see many podcast clips of someone talking about bipolar or schizophrenia.
Tim Beanland:
28:47
Every every time I talk about bipolar, I say I've got bipolar, I have to then follow that up with oh, by the way, it's bipolar two, and there's two types of bipolar there's bipolar one, which is what people stereotypically think it is, which is up and down, up and down, up and down. And then there's bipolar two, which is characterized more by lengthy periods of depression, and then an ability to go up a little bit higher. Now myself, I've dealt more with those lengthy depression periods. And then there's been one or two hypo manic episodes where I was only in hospital overnight. So cool, that's great. But why do I have to explain that? You know, why do I have to? Why do I feel the need to tell someone that it's not bipolar one was bipolar two. I think that's because of everything that you just said.
Joel Kleber:
29:36
And so I certainly do a freely speak about it too much. To be honest. It was a 1.5% of the population or 2% or whatever, have it. I don't think it's still I still think it's not spoken about nearly as freely as was some let's say depression or anxiety because depression is always more prevalent, but I think it's obviously up to people did whether they want to talk about it or not, but um, it's not overly In the conversation with those other conditions as well, that I've been hearing over and like, I've noticed a bit with autism actually now, which has been really, really good. I think that's a great a great thing that's slowly been more, let's say, people are more familiar with that iTunes on the spectrum and all those different things. Whereas I think these other things are just not to the level that they just seem to be really forgotten about.
Tim Beanland:
30:23
Again, that's why it's even more important for you to keep doing this podcast. And you've got a very strong purpose behind why you started. But you're only you're one of the few resources that I actually have as someone with bipolar two point people thought, and that's just, you know, I don't think I've actually ever told you that in person or, you know, but but you're one of the only resources I've had to use say, Hey, listen, listen to this, or, or talk to me, when I describe your podcasts. I say, well, Joel set this up, because his mum had bipolar. And he wanted to bring a voice to the more Nisha, so to speak. Mental illness is the dyslexia, the schizophrenia, that bipolar is that ADHD is, and it's great for conversation for depression, anxiety is out there. But let's start talking about the other ones too.
Joel Kleber:
31:11
But it's also more as well, like tend to show yourself as a really good example of someone who's really, really smart, you've got a business, it's more as well, just to show you don't have to be a victim towards that, because I think now especially victimhood, almost in a way, it's sort of, it's celebrated, or it's, it's really, like, you know, it's tolerated, people put your arm around you, and rather than sometimes you just need a bit of, you know, an example to follow, right. So, you know, despite, you know, despite this person having this, look at what they've gone and done, that's why I love chatting to people like yourself and other people on the podcast, who disclose their mental health challenges and who were really successful papers, I think that's really, really important.
Tim Beanland:
31:50
I'm no longer apart from the last 30 minutes of saying and classifying it as mental illness, because everyone is watching. The bipolar two that I have is not a mental illness, it's actually a mental advantage when treated and used properly. So depression gives you a level of learning knowledge, lessons, insights into yourself that a lot of people don't get. A lot of people don't get that stepping away from life for a long time, and then coming back and realizing, well, I've lost everything, I've got a choice as to what I bring back into my life. Now, there's this really cool point when you come out of depression, so the down points here, and then you're coming up, where it's like, you're healthy again. And you can then choose who you bring back into your life, what you bring back into your life and what you actually enjoy and love doing. And hey, why did it fail? Or why did it go wrong? This time around, if I didn't want to continue my business again, and go off and doing knitting somewhere, I could have done that, probably my wife would have thought that was a bit strange. But it just so happens, I love what I do. And a lot of people are the same. And understanding that and having that insight is in such an incredibly powerful thing. On the flip side, the mania gives you a level of drive energy, passion, creativity, motivation, influence over things. And people that other people can't tap into obey. I mentioned if someone has that ability to kind of, and you've probably seen the Mamre, if someone had that ability to harness that manic energy, with a healthy baseline, you'd be unstoppable. Like, you don't have to eat, you don't have to sleep, you don't have to don't eat, sleep ideas coming out, coming out your brain from everywhere. All you need is that practical grounding and implementation and you're gonna go you're gonna go very far, the problem we've been here is it becomes the ideas become flight of ideas, it's all over the place. The no sleep becomes non productive, because now you're you don't think you're tired, but you are tired. The things that you're actually doing, you think you're being productive, but you just get on around in circles. So, so those are the downsides. But if you can flip that into the advantage, I will go on record and say I do not do this every single time. And it's very dangerous to do this. But if I have to work until 1am, or 2am, I just don't take my medication and I don't have to sleep. Like I can just power stuff out now. People say you got 24 hours in the day that's sort of a lie. You've got 10 and then you go to sleep. Now if you've gotten the ability to push that and push that healthfully yourself really that's that's that's an advantage. If I can work two more hours and my competition I'm going to be ahead. I will preface that by saying I do not do that every single time that's gonna concern that he's going to strongly concern some people that I do not do it now because messing around with your medication is not a thing you should be doing. Like that's a strong No, no, I'm just saying that look at what you Have not as a mental illness, but as a mental advantage. What are the things inside your illness that actually give you strength? And for me, it's the insights, reflection, knowledge, and then the passion, energy, motivation and drive
Joel Kleber:
35:15
to look at it. And I was gonna ask you, then, from someone who started, you might you said some really good stuff there about? You started from scratch pretty much again, and you had a pretty successful business going there for a while, then you, obviously this has happened. And you've had to start from scratch again. So how did you choose what to bring back in your life or, because a lot of people might just go, I need to get money, I need to just get going again and take everything back on and then where they go. So how did you? How did you restrain yourself and maybe doing that? And then how did you assess what you were going to bring back in?
Tim Beanland:
35:49
It's very hard, because when you get out of depression, you want to catch up, and you want to get going straightaway. And you just want to go bang and pull it again, I'm back. Let's let's do this. And someone looking at me online could probably see that I'm doing that a little bit of clarifying interstate everywhere. But I've had great help from Victor, to Vichy, and Martin bean land, and Simon Bowden, all three of which have been pushing me in the positive direction, and pulling me back when I when I needed to be pulled back. So when I recovered, the goal was reached back out to the business contacts that you need to in terms of the people that I own work to. And then also reach back out to the a plus players, the people that you know, you love working with the people that you've worked with in the past, and let's see if we can just get some work going. And for me, in particular, it was get to the wedding. So it was three months out before the wedding, when that psychologists call came in to my wife, and at that point, it was like, you're not gonna be there. Mentally, you'll be there physically for the wedding, but you won't be there mentally. So the goal was to just get to the wedding. And let's start, let's just start responding to some of these people. And with the help of Victor Martin and Simon, I devised a plan, we got that list done. But then we also reached out and asked me, So how did I rebuild again? Well, I reached out to the people that knew me in business and knew what had happened. And from a marketing perspective, I also knew they needed videos, because I'd been missing for 11 months. So the best one was one of my clients in Sydney Steve, he'd messaged me about that a microphone he was, you know, I want a microphone. And it sounds months ago, and then I I called him up. I said, Steve, did you saw that microphone, because I didn't even need it. It's okay. And he's like, This is funny. I've been wanting to do videos until I was about to send you a message. But now you're on the phone, what are you doing, you come up to Sydney. And that was the first job that I heard proper paid job was actually flying up to Sydney and doing the work. And that came about by just reaching out to the people that I knew, would respect what I do and also understand the story. Because for me going forward, picking the clients that and this is why doing stuff like this is important. Because picking clients that understand this happens and understand that I not only have a solid plan now to get through it. That's a that's a big sort of tick box in terms of the type of people because there's people that out there that don't understand and that's okay, they just they're gone on their own thing but
Joel Kleber:
38:37
when they by that What do you mean by that?
Tim Beanland:
38:40
I mean they people that don't understand people that will quickly try and move the conversation on so you tell them what happened. And instead of sitting with you heard of it, they just move the conversation on now there's probably two ways two reasons why I guess one someone just might be uncomfortable talking about it so we can't just write them off but they they will just care about themselves and those are the people that don't really understand I believe Yeah have you had similar experiences? I mean, I don't we don't want to harp on negative too much but
Joel Kleber:
39:20
not in regards to me now because I don't really share too much in regards to yeah in a one on one level with what's going on I'm more business so if I'm in a business environment I'm to I'm pretty
Tim Beanland:
39:29
obvious I might say that question was hard to answer because I have a blanket majority of people have been positive and understanding so blanket majority fantastic. Only two people so far have been tricky.
Joel Kleber:
39:45
But listen, perspective that's a lesson point. I was trying to solve it pretty much back is most people are generally good with this sort of stuff you know, and he disclosed and tell people the full situation and don't hide it. Most if you're a decent human being you've got empathy, some at some level most Some people do. If you don't, it's another story. But some people do and they'll get to understand it. So was it in the message? Was it just did you just send something outlining where you've been? Or was it just more of a just a checkbook, general hay or hedge? Oh, it was
Tim Beanland:
40:14
a full, it was a full update was filled up, it was, hey, that's
Joel Kleber:
40:18
an important thing. I think you've been transparent. And you've disclosed that and personal. And as we, as we would know, most 99% of people will have a heart will respond well, to that.
Tim Beanland:
40:30
The best response that I get back from people was, this was the majority of people. It was, first of all, I'm so glad to hear from you. I was worried. Better communication next time would be great. So that Fair enough. Fair, fair enough. But, but hey, let's, let's finish this project. You know, that's fine. Let's finish it. I'm lucky. And you know, you know what we do, because you're very much in graded teams group. And it's, it's like, if someone misses videos, it's it's not like, it's not the end of the world. But it's, a lot of them were actually appreciative, a lot of them said, you know, what we what we planned, my business has actually moved on. So I love the fact that I didn't actually talk about that. So let's, let's just, let's just, and that was great. That majority of people were like, this is fantastic. I love the process. Let's finish the project. You know, only two people were just difficult. And that's just a, I'm not gonna go into what they did or said or whatever, but they know who they are. I'll tell you off camera. Yeah.
Joel Kleber:
41:41
But like for me, like at the moment, where do you see this film? Moving the conversations? What can happen? Because I think a lot of people who do we use, make sure they're things are linked and stuff. And I think, look, most people generally think I want to show that I'm all for mental health, mental health is important to me, whether it actually is or not another story, but I just want to either get the engagement online and give some money to an organization where 80% of its gonna go to Administration and 20% is gonna go to maybe doing something. So what do you think in regards to moving forward, because I think now it's getting lost a bit, obviously, news cycles about interest rates and mortgage stress, which in turn is going to have a mental health effect, you're going to have a lot of people on disability pensions and in commission homes and stuff, and their pensions aren't going up by the same rate that the food is going up, and they really rely on, you know, the food banks and all that sort of stuff. You know, I know my mom, you know, now if we were around, we would be being big stuff. Big strike, the pension would not support us. But um, yeah, that sort of seems to be getting lost at the moment. I don't think it's been really mentioned too much. We're talking about people sleeping in cars and stuff, because horrible we're not talking about the flower effect, it's going to have poor mental health in in regards to the facilities as well, I presume they're gonna be pretty much choppers with people. Well,
Tim Beanland:
42:52
what I what I would do to answer this question, what, what now? Okay. You said it perfectly. About a year ago, in a LinkedIn post, he said, The time for awareness is over. Action is now the thing that needs to happen. We need to stop doing jumping jacks on LinkedIn, and we need to start doing action. Okay. What does action look like? Oh, action looks like the person with a mental illness or advantages, I say, taking responsibility in asking help from at least one person. So the communication needs to be not on the people doing jumping jacks saying it okay, it needs to be on the education on the person with the illness, you know, if I break my arm, I'm not just going to sit here in bed going someone come and help me with my broken arm, you need to take some responsibility on having at least one person. And a lot of people don't have a supportive network like myself, so I have to be very careful. But we do have we're lucky enough in Australia to have the facilities of professionals. So be that an online thing or be that going to your local GP, you're not going to get better until you understand that it requires help to get out of your depression or mental health, you're not going to do it alone, you're going to need someone. And I think the communication in terms of action needs to be first on people like myself in understanding how you can take that action for you. This isn't victim blaming. This is just what has actually worked for me. We have an actual mental illness. I didn't get better until I did the stuff. So the communication needs to be around what can that person do? And then the communication needs to be to their support network and check in that they're actually doing the stuff. So my uncle, how did I actually recover from this thing? Well, I got back on my medication properly, but that was going on for the whole 11 months. I started to go for a walk every Single Day. depressions best friend is darkness, what I would do at the start of every day was, I would wake up, it'd be 10am. Already, I would go into the ensuite that we have, I would shut the blinds in the ensuite and close the door. And then I would shut the border blinds in my room. And then I would close the door. Even though my dog was on the other side, go, let me out, let me know if you let me and I want to I want to jump on the bed. I closed the door and then the room was in complete darkness for the entire day. The moment that I got sunlight in the morning by going on a walk every day, that's when I actually started to get better. So depression is best friend is darkness. So to get away from that depression is I got sunlight in the morning. Even in Melbourne, one of the most gloomy cities on earth, we actually have some sort of sunlight in the morning. So getting out in the sun, for me at least helped so much but doing that consistently. And also having someone like my uncle and my doctors asking me Are you going for these walks every day. So but action to take place, we need the practical tools that will help us get better. So for me it's exercise, getting back in touch with people playing guitar, again, playing sport again, getting active and then you know actually doing something that I'm passionate and purposeful about those are that's a recipe for me. For you. It might be something different. But then you need someone there. If you're fortunate enough to have a wife like I do, who will now check in on that stuff. Oh, two hasn't spoken to Robin a while. Oh, okay. That's strange. Tim has been gone and hung out with someone. You know, he hasn't done any filming lately, what's going on here? Easy, just telling me that it's all online. But hang on, like, at least every month, he's up in Brisbane or Sydney like that stopped. Why is that stopped. So questioning the changes in someone's behavior as well is also quite helpful. And those tools need to be given not only to the person with the mental illness, but also to the support network. And it's not about Yeah, it's not about awareness. It's about those those action points. And that's, I'm just speaking from pure experience here. So you know, and I've said some pretty tough things, but I needed the tough things for me to get better.
Joel Kleber:
47:06
And also think if people have complex mental health issues, to use the NDIS, you can get a package from the NDIS, you'll get assessed and stuff. And there's a lot of good support through the NDIS there's a lot of Milan had a really good caseworker who was with her for like 15 years, and she was invaluable. Like, he was annoying, she got my mother sector heaps of past issues our most use. Well, what happened was, but that case will get newer, so well. And then over the years, when the NDIS packages got there, you know, she had a significant amount of money to get to people for nutrition and for gym and for someone just coming to visit her and take her out all these things are available for people, especially with really complex mental health issues, if they're on a Disability Support Pension, they can have access to these sorts of things, a lot of people might crap on the government for different things. But I think the NDIS in regards to my family, especially with my mum towards the end, was really, really, really important. You know, there might have been a few bullets going on every now and again. But um, from what I saw, from a support point of view, there was a lot of good stuff that was available. And it's and it was well worth people if they do have a complex mental health challenge. And there are disability support pension, if they don't have the ability to have a family or something they might have a lot of people have might be alone, they might be an orphan, had no family and whatever, but they can use those NDIS resources. And also there's the IR community groups with lived experience people, there's one called Finding north and stuff where they can jump on to a zoom with people from all around Australia, who will have maybe bipolar schizophrenia. And they'll just talk, you know, and that community aspect is really, really important. So I think no matter what your circumstance is, you can have something in place, which works for you. So you've got what works for you, which is fantastic. But if you are someone who does need that extra government support, the NDIS what Bill Shorten done, I think has been quite fantastic. To be honest, I'm not political either way, but I think, yeah, just from knowing from first experience with how my Mum used it and the amount of money she got from the NDIS it was definitely we're very lucky to live in Australia.
Tim Beanland:
49:06
Yeah, well, everyone needs a bass line. Everyone needs a bass, because medication costs money going and seeing psychologist, psychiatrist cost money. So everyone should have that ability to have access to these tools. And if that means you go on an NDIS or a Centrelink or whatever the scheme is, that's great because you use that to get better. And the thing is you do if you don't have to you don't stay there for ever. You use that as a springboard and you use that to get better. And if that's the Help system that you need to get better, don't feel ashamed to go in and using it. Because it's there
Joel Kleber:
49:51
and you're right and the reality is saves lives. It saves lives you know, having that extra support that it's not a it's not going to be it's not detrimental. It's only A positive sort of thing. And I think people don't realize that as well, like they think, you know, there's organizations like beyondblue, and lifeline, that's all there is mental health, there's a far more, there's a lot of places that were always, you know, half of workers always will have a mental health check condition as well. So you know, the person who came and took my mom out for a coffee or whatever, had bipolar as well. And that was her job. And, you know, I mean, so that's those sorts of organizations, there's a few of them. But that's where for me the we can make a big impact is get rid of these top level awareness charities, which does the hotlines to more of these other ones, which are more grassroots and these community based care and these things in home community care, as well as a big one. That's a huge thing where you can kick people out of hospitals by trying to help them at their home, as opposed to waiting till they get into the state when they need to.
Tim Beanland:
50:47
Do you ask every guest that question like what what should we do after awareness of you? Or at least not every but not not everyone? Not everyone? You've got? You've got at least 510 answers a little bit.
Joel Kleber:
50:58
It's more more asked the people have asked more than people who are spoken who have bipolar disorder will have a complex manner of chances ask them because I think it affects them the most, or sometimes I ask young carers or people who have had a parent with that. And I've asked Brad McCune as well, because Brad and Brad because beyondblue ambassador to him, and he was the one he did say that, you know, the time for talking is over and all that sort of stuff. So I got that from him a couple of years ago. Yeah, that's more about Yeah, always asking is that just think it's very, what more can be done besides what we're doing at the moment? Is it allocation of money to more grassroots organizations as a more awareness or more different conditions? I don't know.
Tim Beanland:
51:39
Yeah, I've just I've just had an idea. I'll talk to you about it.
Joel Kleber:
51:43
Yeah. But the things that I think you mentioned in it, like people would know, they're like, I'm glad you said the basic stuff. You know, getting outside. I think you mentioned walking, walking your dog as well, before that was carrying a dog lift anyone's mood, right.
Tim Beanland:
51:57
So there was there was a point. So I had the intervention and family came in and they did everything they could but then a Monday came around and leaves and went back to work. And there was this turning point between am I going to take the action? Or am I just going to fall back into the pit of depression. And it was amazing, because as soon as that habit, I told them, I told my daughter they have Sunday leads will their leaves. I was like we're going for a walk tomorrow, we're gonna hold the dog for a walk tomorrow. Because she hadn't been for walking well, anyway. So Lisa goes off to work comes to about nine o'clock 930 where I could have fallen back into that old pattern. And the dog comes running and jumping up on the bed going, you said we go. And I went for a walk. And that was that was the start of and then I called my uncle and I said I'm out and free. We got me out of the dorm coming out so
Joel Kleber:
52:50
and it's so important. Like my mom had a full time. Like it wasn't a full time but she always he had a nutritionist, he had a gym, past exercise, even though she didn't follow nutrition at us, or she didn't go to the gym overly much. But she thought, you know, mind, she goes, I'm eating well, and I'm going to the gym, and I knew she wasn't or I'm going to see my nutritionist and stuff. They're telling me this, I'm doing all these exercises. But it's those, they're there for a reason, right? They're things that people know they should do. And they don't do it. And you've just got to be really ultra consistent with it like this, you know, I've got an app on my phone called streaks Nash streaks, basically, I have different things which I like gamified like if I don't gamify and I have it on my phone and it has they're basically walk 6000 steps, listen to an audio book and start to tick it off. And I get to deal with
Tim Beanland:
53:35
quantities quantities have an app where they give you conscious points if you hit a certain amount of steps. Oh, really? Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah, I'm gonna get my quantity split. So you don't yell at like five points at 10 points or whatever, but it adds up. You can then use that on groceries and yeah, I think that's gamify it. Yeah,
Joel Kleber:
53:54
gasifier? Yeah, exactly what I find out what works for you and gamify. But Tim, mate, thanks for jumping on. You're welcome. I believe that is there. And obviously, if people want to find out more about you, they can just check you out on LinkedIn, Timberland, how many followers you got now 7000 6000.
Tim Beanland:
54:10
LinkedIn is about the 4000 teatox 4500. But I've started a new one just to trial, some things. Reach out to me on any platform, more than happy to have a conversation with you if you say something that's super complex, and I will just push you to support but in a supportive and encouraging way. So very much looking forward to anyone who wants to reach out please, please do message me. I'm more than happy to listen to help. And Joel, thank you again for having me on time. I think I need to extend the favor again. You've been on Have you been on my podcast yet?
Joel Kleber:
54:48
In the experts blueprint? Yeah. Yeah, I think it was. Yeah, it was.
Tim Beanland:
54:53
Well, come on again.
Joel Kleber:
54:58
I think that what you Would you read in that? What would you say? Very unique content in regards to this space? Again? See, I haven't some of those things you said I don't think we've been spoken about at all online. So we'll pause there. Hopefully I don't speak. That's so big thank you to Tim being landless, sharing his story in the lived experience if you want to share yours as well had the lived experience podcast.com and contact me via the contact form I'd love to have you on I love sharing stories like Tim's I just think it's such a good one to hear. It's such a good rule like perspective on mental health. It's not the typical stuff you'll see a lot on now which is fantastic, which is depression and anxiety, sort of stuff, you know, talking about bipolar and the depression which comes with that. And what actually happens to someone. It just hits it home, how much more work we're going to do in this space and how much more work needs to be done in our conversations to sort of cover these areas and big thanks to Tim Tim for that there's so much great content in that as well. If you do enjoy it or think it is valuable song please share it. If you did like it as well please leave a review. Until next episode. I hope you have a great week.
