357: Stanley McChrystal - Leadership In Uncertain Times

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Well, one, as soon as you think you're going to fail,
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you're going to fail. It's decided. And second, you exist
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for the team. You don't exist for you. The leader
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doesn't exist for the parking spot or the title or
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the paycheck. The leader exists to give that team what
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they need. And so it's critical that you look into
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their eyes and say, what does this group need? What
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would I need if I was standing in the back
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rank of this team right now, wondering what's going to happen?
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They need to know that. You're confident we can do this.
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And they need to believe in the cause as well.
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You need to make sure that you've got something that's
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worthy of their effort.
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My philosophy on this podcast, The Learning Leader Show, is
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to create timeless conversations that could be listened to at
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any time and be useful. However, Given the times we
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find ourselves in, I felt it made sense to break
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that rule and have a conversation with one of the
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greatest leadership minds in the world, General Stanley McChrystal, to
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ask him directly, what are you doing in these times
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of uncertainty? How are you stepping up to lead when
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everyone is looking to you? Everyone is watching you. And
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not only did Stan and I have this conversation one-on-one,
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but I did it on zoom.
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We had more than.
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250 people from all over the world joining to watch
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this conversation, listen to it live. And towards the end
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of it, a few of them had the opportunity to
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ask direct questions to Stan. And he was so kind
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and gracious. And I would ask you, how are you
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choosing to step up right now? People will remember how
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you behave right now forever. And not trying to use hyperbole. However,
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leaders are made when times are tough. Leaders are made
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right now. It's easy to lead when times are good.
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Easy.
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It's much harder to step up and be a leader
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and behave like a leader right now. And so I'd
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ask you, how are you choosing to do that? And
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I think this conversation with Stan can be very helpful.
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as a guide to say these are some tools, tactics,
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ideas of ways that you can behave right now to
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lead your family, which is most important, lead your team,
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lead the people that count on you at work. And
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as Stan said, you exist for the team to give
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them what they need. What do they need and how
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can I as a leader deliver it for them? Ladies
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and gentlemen, I think you'll get a lot out of
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this one with the great General Stanley McChrystal. So for
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those of you who don't know, and that's probably a
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small number of my guests today, on this first live
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virtual edition of The Learning Leader Show is the great
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four-star General Stanley McChrystal, founder, CEO of the McChrystal Group,
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served our country, those of us who are Americans. I
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know we have a worldwide audience today, but Americans. He
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served for 34 years. He commanded all forces in Afghanistan,
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joint special operations command, and served as director of operations
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for the Pentagon. Command included more than 150,000 troops from
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45 allied countries. He's also written a number of bestselling
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books since retiring from the military, including My Share of
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the Task, team of teams and leaders myth in reality.
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And I recently read a quote by former secretary of defense,
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Robert Gates, who called Stan one of the most incredible
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warriors and leaders I've ever met.
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So Stan honored. Thank you so much for being here. Welcome.
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Well, thanks Ryan for having me. It's great to see
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you again.
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You too. You too.
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And I'm so grateful. I have to say off the
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top and I wanted to publicly say it to you.
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for the invitation that you gave to me last year
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to go to Gettysburg with the people, the great leaders
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that you are teaching and I'm sure learning from as
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well at Yale. It's one of the most memorable days
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of my life of touring the battlefield at Gettysburg with
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you being the teacher for the whole day.
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It was just truly, truly amazing. So I want to
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thank you for that.
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Well, it makes you think about leadership when you're on
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that ground.
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It sure does. It sure does.
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Recently, I saw a quote from you, something you had
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published that said, as we lead through this time of crisis,
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leaders are more important now than ever. There's really three
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keys that you tweeted about recently. Communicate relentlessly. Match your
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internal operating pace with that of your external environment. And three,
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continue to reiterate what winning looks like to your organization.
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So I love Stan to get us started if, if
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considering everything that's going on and we titled this leadership
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and uncertain times, because I think that's, what's most scary
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to us or to just people in general is we
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don't know, uh, where there's so much uncertainty in the
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world right now that we're just, if someone said, look,
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this will be over in exactly 21 days, we know
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for certain. I think we'd be okay. We're like, okay,
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I get it. I can handle that. But we don't
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know that. We think we have a hypothesis. Some people
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have some ideas, but we don't truly know. So starting
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with number one that you've written about, communicate relentlessly.
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Why is this so imperative at this time?
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Yeah.
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Whenever you have a time of uncertainty, people want as
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much clarity. And if they can't get clarity, as much
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reassurance as possible. If we think about it, I just
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did some writing recently about Franklin Roosevelt and after Pearl Harbor.
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And the day after Pearl Harbor, he went and he
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gave the speech asking for a declaration of war against
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the Empire of Japan. But what he communicated was, we
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are going to win this war. He didn't say it
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would be easy. He didn't say it would be cost free.
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But what he said is, we are going to do
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whatever it takes for us as a nation to prevail.
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And so communicating to the groups of people is first
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giving them a sense of clarity on what it is
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we're trying to do. We'll talk about that as a
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third point, but a sense of confidence that even though
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this may be an unthinkably difficult time, we are going
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to get through it. And people recalibrate all their actions
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if they think there is going to be a tomorrow,
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if they think that they are going to be able
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to come through this with they and their families and
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the people that they care about. Leaders have got to
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communicate that verbally. They've got to do it in writing,
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and they've got to do it in their demeanor, in
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their actions. They've got to show people that they are
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completely committed and that they are absolutely confident that we
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are going to get through this.
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Where does that come from in a leader? Is that
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something that you've had to develop over the years? Because
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there are probably people who are in leadership roles that
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are a part of this call right now thinking, Stan,
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that sounds great, but I, myself, as the leader of
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my company or the leader of my team, I'm really scared.
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I'm uncertain. I don't know. How can I say that
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if I'm.
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Not fully sure of what's going to happen in the future?
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Yeah, that's one of the great paradoxes of leadership. Sometimes
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you have got to communicate something that is actually directed
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also at yourself. If you take a bunch of soldiers
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and you point at a hill and you say, I
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want you to attack the hill. And I think we
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got about a 32% chance of taking it. They're not
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going to be too excited to go up the hill.
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You have actually for sure decided you're going to fail. Instead,
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what you've got to do is look at them and
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you don't say, hey, it's an easy hill. The enemy
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aren't going to fight. You have to say, this is
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going to be difficult, but we are going to win.
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Even if you have inner doubts about it. And some
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people say, well, I'm not being completely honest if I
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don't tell people I think we're probably going to fail. Well, one,
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as soon as you think you're going to fail, you're
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going to fail. It's decided. And second, you exist for
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the team. You don't exist for you. The leader doesn't
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exist for the parking spot or the title or the paycheck.
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The leader exists to give that team what they need.
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And so it's critical that you look into their eyes
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and say, what does this group need? What would I
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need if I was standing in the back rank of
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this team right now wondering what's going to happen? They
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need to know that you're confident we can do this.
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And they need to believe in the cause as well.
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You need to make sure that you've got something that's
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worthy of their effort.
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Can you think back to times, you're leading 150,000 people
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from 45 allied countries. So that just blows my mind.
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But can you think back to moments in your career
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when You were like 70% or 65%, but you couldn't
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say that. You had to share the message with your
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team that you were certain or you were confident that
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you could accomplish this mission. I know I read about
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some of the guys you were after, some of the
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worst terrorists in the world, and there's so much uncertainty.
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there as well. You don't know where they are. Their
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communications are crazy. So can you think of times in
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your career that you can draw from now that maybe
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people could hear an example where legendary General Stanley McChrystal was,
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I don't know, but then was able to have success
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despite that?
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Well, Yeah, I take the legendary Stan McChrystal out.
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Sorry, I got to just say, okay, it's just Stan.
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Exactly. But yes. And I tell you what, when you
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are responsible for something very important, the fear goes up
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even more because you're not just going to fail, you're
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going to fail in something that matters. In 2005 in Iraq,
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we were losing the fight against Al Qaeda in Iraq.
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And many of you remember, if you go back, there
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was sort of the arc of that effort. We went
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into Iraq, it looked like it was going to be easy.
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And then it got wickedly hard, and the U.S. didn't
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figure it out until about late 2006, you know, how
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to do that better. So in 2005, we had this
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situation where we had lost control of the western Euphrates
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River Valley to al-Qaeda, and a terrorist group now controls
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part of the country, which is atypical for terrorist groups.
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We were asked to go out by the commanding general
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in Iraq, General Casey, to go out and be the
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main effort. And so to do that, we had to
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put JSOC in a role it didn't usually have. And
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we had to deploy two thirds of the force into
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that fight, which was unsustainable because we rotated typically a
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third because you had to refit and whatnot. And so
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we put them in for a period. We knew it
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would be unsustainable gambling that we could make it work.
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And we thought we could keep it up for about
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six months. And as soon as we started, we took
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a bunch of casualties. It got really painful. And so
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inside my force, there's doubts that maybe I had bet
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the nation's counterterrorist force. And there were doubts inside Stan
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McChrystal that this was even doable. We got together some
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senior leaders in a room and we spent about three
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hours in front of a whiteboard with the question, have
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we already lost and were too stubborn to admit it?
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And it was interesting. We talked for three hours. At
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the end of it, we said, we don't think so.
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We think we can do this if we do it right.
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Where I took strength was from my comrades. Had I
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gone into a room by myself and just been captive
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with my own fears, I probably wouldn't have come to
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the right place. But with each other, what we essentially
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did was we were saying, we are committed. It was
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less a vote of confidence that we would win, and
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it was a vote of confidence in each other's commitment
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that we would do everything possible After about six months,
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we did. It worked. But it was one of those
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periods and those bets when you're uncertain every day. Now,
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during that period, what I had to do and other
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leaders in the organization, we have to go out, communicate
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to the force all the time because they've got huge doubts.
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They go, you know, General Stan lost his mind. What
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are we doing? You know, and particularly as they're losing comrades.
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But over time, as they see the big picture And
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you have to be really honest with them about the
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big picture and the purpose. They start to build their
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confidence and conviction. And finally, in the fall, I had
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a sergeant major one day said, sir, I had doubts,
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but I got to tell you, it has worked. And
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I could have hugged the guy because he had such
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credibility in the organization. If I told everybody it worked
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because I was the architect of it, OK, here's a
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guy who's a step away and says, no, it worked.
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We won.
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It feels to me your style of leadership is one
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that builds commitment above just compliance. And some in the
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military world can say, well, and I don't have a
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military background. I obviously admire you and everyone who has
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served the United States. But one of the things I've
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written about, and obviously you've been a part of my
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book because you wrote the foreword, which I'm obviously extremely
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grateful for is that the phrase compliance can be commanded,
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but commitment cannot. And that's a big deal to me
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because as leaders, we want to build a type of
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teams or organizations where people want to commit as opposed
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to just complying because I have to, because I report
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to Stan or because that's the CEO or because his
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rank is bigger than mine.
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How have you worked?
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Because I think commitment right now is as important as
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it's ever been. How have you worked to build committed
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teams like that story you just told where people say,
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I believe in him. I want to follow him. I'm
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going to commit to him. I'm not just going to
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comply to the orders.
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Yeah.
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You and I have touched on this before, and you
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know how deep I feel about this.
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Yeah.
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Getting people to be committed to a cause, but also
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to you, not personal loyalty to the Fuhrer, but loyalty
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to somebody who returns it in kind is incredibly powerful.
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I'm sitting in my office and I've got a little
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page out of a notebook torn out from the former
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head of the CIA in Afghanistan back in 2004. And
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I barely knew him at the time, but we're in
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the back of this darkened helicopter, And we're flying and
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we just go into this place and what we'd seen
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had not been very encouraging. And he wrote me this
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note that says, I don't know the Ranger Creed, which
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is what I grew up under. He says, but you
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can bet your sweet ass I'll never leave you. And
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it was funny from this sort of a stranger. I'm going, wow.
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And that guy is named Greg Vogel. He became number
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three in the CIA. He's a legend. But it was
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like a check. He was saying, I will commit to
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you as a person. And that was 2004. And he
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and I are best friends to this day because he
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makes that kind of commitment. And what I found was
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if I'm willing to make that kind of commitment to comrades,
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that people pay it back in spades. I'll be quite
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honest with you. The most disappointing part of my life
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was when I left Afghanistan. You know, the big hubbub
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from the Rolling Stone article. Yeah, it hurt to lose
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my career, all of those things, particularly when I thought
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that there was no real cause for it. But I
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had caused a number of people to go to Afghanistan
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and commit. I had gotten a number of Afghans to
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commit to me because I said, I'm here, I'm with you.
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And when I'm suddenly unable to fulfill my commitment, you
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feel like you let them down. So I would say
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that one of the things commitments have done for me
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is make me a better leader because it makes me
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more responsible. It makes me understand that if I fail,
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it's not me failing me, it's me failing a bunch
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of people I made promises to.
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From the foreword of your book, Team of Teams, you had,
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this is truly a legendary author, Walter Isaacson. He wrote,
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whether in business or in war, the ability to react
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quickly and adapt is critical. And it's becoming even more
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so as technology and disruptive forces increase the pace of change.
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That requires new ways to communicate and work together. In
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today's world, creativity is a collaborative endeavor. Innovation is a
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team effort. Given the situation we find ourselves in where
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most people are now working remotely, even if they had
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never done it before. And before we started recording here,
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you mentioned how This is such a change for you
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because you're traveling a lot for your work and now
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you're not anymore. And thinking of what Walter Isaacson wrote
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in the foreword of Team of Teams, how have you
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used some of your learnings both from him as well
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as what you've gathered working in a wild environment, especially
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when communication was tough and you had to build teams
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of teams? How have you used that now for now
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and what advice would you give to others as they
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find themselves in an unfamiliar environment?
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Yeah, that's a great question, Ryan, because that's what I'm
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focused on right now. Just to give a quick background
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for people who may not be aware, when we took
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on the fight against al-Qaeda in Iraq in 2003 in Iraq,
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they were a completely different kind of organization than we'd
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ever run into. They were like a virus. They operated
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using intelligence technology. They were remarkably fast, constantly moving. They
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weren't a structured, conventional threat you could deal with the
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way we've grown up. So what we found we had
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to do is we had to geographically disperse ourselves. We
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were across 27 countries at 76 different bases every day, permanently.
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And then we had to operate that entire thing as
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though we were one entity. We had to learn, share information,
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be able to respond almost instantaneously. Because our threat was
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that good. It was like COVID-19. And so we geographically
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dispersed ourselves and we started operating. We realized suddenly there
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are a bunch of learned skills you have to develop
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to do this. One of the things I'd say is
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as we go into this dispersed or work from home environment,
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whatever we want to call it, many of the things
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we would do during a crisis are hard to do. Remember,
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typically in a crisis in your organization, everybody goes to
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the biggest conference room you have. You start working, you
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put whiteboards up, you pay stickies everywhere, you buy pizza
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and you work your way through it. You can't do
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that now. And you've got to do that. And everybody's
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in their area and you've got to get information to
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them and you've got to get information from them. You
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have got to make that efficient, not just effective. So
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what we found is a very disciplined operating rhythm, a
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drumbeat of certain video teleconferences we talk about that don't
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have to be long, but keeps everybody informed about what's happening.
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You mentioned at the beginning, communicate, communicate, communicate. That's exactly
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what you do. You're increasing their shared consciousness or contextual
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awareness about the situation. And when you're doing that, you're
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empowering them to act. You're not sucking decisions to the
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center because that's too slow. And that's ultimately going to
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be incorrect for actions locally. And so by giving them
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the information that used to be resident only at the
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C-level of many companies, by pushing it down and telling
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them they are empowered to act and they are expected
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to act, suddenly open it up. And the beauty of
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IT is we can connect so well now, nobody can
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get too far off the rails. They can make a mistake,
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they can go in a slightly wrong direction. But you
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can see it, you can pull them back if you
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have a discipline, rhythm to it. The other part is
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we're dealing with human beings. You know, we go home.
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We were joking earlier about when you're working home, you say, well,
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this is great. I can dress casually, I can do
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whatever I want. But now you got kids running around
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the house. You have all of the other distractions You
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also were at home with your own demons. If you're
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scared of the virus, there's nobody to reassure you. The
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German army used to have a saying called the feel
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of the cloth. And what they were talking about was
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in combat, when you marched in formation, you felt the
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shoulder of the man next to you and you knew
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you weren't alone. Well, suddenly we feel alone. And so
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our insecurities come out as well. If you think your
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boss doesn't like you or doesn't trust you, just going
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through emails or phone calls is really hard to keep
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your sense of confidence up that I'm contributing, she thinks
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I'm a good operator, et cetera, and I'm keeping up
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with what the expectations are. So what we recommend is
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if you understand you're dealing with people, start with that
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discipline battle rhythm that's communicating both ways, making sure you're
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getting up and down, but also a series of informal interactions.
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Leaders should have literally a schedule. I think early in
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a crisis, you ought to be talking to your first
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line subordinates every day. You ought to give them a
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short call. It can be for five minutes. It's just,
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how are you doing? And try to do it video
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because you'll get a lot from that. You can look
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into their eyes and get a sense of how they're doing.
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And they get a sense, one, that you care. And two,
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they get that renewed confidence that, yeah, I'm in the
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good graces of my boss and that sort of thing.
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And then I would also create the equivalent of water
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cooler or coffee break groups. And I would get six
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or eight people and I'd say, okay, at four o'clock,
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all you six get a cup of coffee or a
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glass of wine and a beer. And I just want
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you to get into this room, video room. And I
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want you to talk for 30 minutes and I want
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you to talk about this subject, but you could also
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talk about anything. It will be a little bit awkward
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at first and then they'll get good at it. Last night, Ark,
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our company, the young people had a virtual happy hour
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and everybody from their house, you know, got a drink
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and they did a happy hour. Is it the same?
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Not exactly, but it's, but it's got a charm to it.
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And I think that sense that I am not alone
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and I'm connected is extraordinarily important.
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The second part of that, that, that I I'm getting
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back to the initial question, which is match your internal
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operating pace with that of your external environment.
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It feels like That's what you mean right there.
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I do.
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And you need to admit the external operating pace. You know,
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a lot of companies have legacy based systems that work
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Monday through Friday and they work nine to five and
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they do an annual budget and then they do it.
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And what they find is they're always out of step
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because things are moving much faster than that. So I
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think the first thing you have to do is what
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is the field I'm operating in? What are the situation
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I'm in right now? And you've got to speed it up.
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With COVID-19 and this imminent financial situation that we're in
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that's going to hit us all like a sledgehammer, people
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have got to react really quickly. And so in my view,
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you're not panicking. That's not the definition of moving fast
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is panicking. Moving fast is when other things are moving
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fast around you, you've got to move as fast or faster.
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And so I think you set new expectations. I remember
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when JSOC was operating at its highest tempo in Iraq
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about 2006. We had an individual sent to us from
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one of the federal agencies to spend six months with us.
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And they sent back a report to their headquarters back
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in Washington, D.C. And they said, you don't understand what's
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happening out here. In this war, things happen fast. When
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JSOC talks about doing something, you guys look at your calendars.
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They look at their watch and it's a mindset that says,
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why are we waiting until Tuesday to do it? In reality,
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it could be done this afternoon.
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You need to continue to reiterate what winning looks like
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to your organization. How does a leader who's running a business,
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there are people leading businesses and teams of various sizes
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that are listening and watching right now, Stan, what What
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is the model or the framework for showing your team
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what winning looks like right now?
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I think that's really important. And it's much more nuanced
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than might be obvious. If you take a non-crisis environment,
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a company might say winning is this level of growth,
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this level of revenue, this level of EBITDA, whatever they do.
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And that's interesting. But except for a few companies and
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a few personalities, that's not the force. They got that.
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They need to believe that there's more to it than that.
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And on the other hand, I would not say that
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it needs to be changed the world. We're going to
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get each puppy a new home to live in. That's
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not necessarily what you do either. I think in that environment,
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you have to say success in this organization looks like
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a successful firm that contributes in the marketplace in a
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credible way and profitable. Otherwise, it's not going to last.
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A workforce that wants to come to work in the
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morning because they feel that it is meeting needs that
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they have, not just financial needs, but emotional needs, a
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sense that I am developing myself. I'm interacting with people
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that I care about. And then I also think it's
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important that they feel good about what the organization does.
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If you make drugs that hurt people or that sort
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of thing, you might not feel really excited to come
477
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to work in the morning. but if you feel that
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what we do builds an important need in society, and
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that's the range of just incredible number of things, I
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think the leader has to paint that nuanced picture together.
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Now put it in a crisis. In a crisis right now,
482
00:27:37.009 --> 00:27:39.990
I'd say the first thing is we are going to
483
00:27:40.029 --> 00:27:43.759
make the company survive. We are going to weather the
484
00:27:43.819 --> 00:27:48.539
storm so that we're a credible firm as this thing evolves.
485
00:27:49.380 --> 00:27:52.380
Second is, What are we going to do for each other?
486
00:27:53.019 --> 00:27:55.400
How are we going to come out of this? Are
487
00:27:55.440 --> 00:28:00.819
we going to come out of this as healthy as possible, physically, financially?
488
00:28:01.539 --> 00:28:05.140
Are we going to emotionally feel like that being part
489
00:28:05.160 --> 00:28:08.940
of this organization was a net plus, not a net drain?
490
00:28:09.549 --> 00:28:12.529
And I think the leader can draw that picture for
491
00:28:12.569 --> 00:28:16.269
people and say, this is what success looks like. And
492
00:28:16.289 --> 00:28:18.809
the leader may say, be honest enough, say it's different
493
00:28:18.869 --> 00:28:22.109
from what I would have said two months ago because
494
00:28:22.130 --> 00:28:26.849
the ground has shifted under our feet. That's okay. Because
495
00:28:26.869 --> 00:28:29.450
I think if you don't admit that, you lose credibility
496
00:28:29.470 --> 00:28:31.720
with your team.
497
00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:35.279
I found my background is more in sports, as you know,
498
00:28:35.359 --> 00:28:39.279
and yours in the military. And I think this could
499
00:28:39.319 --> 00:28:40.140
apply to both.
500
00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:43.450
It's really easy. Not really easy.
501
00:28:43.549 --> 00:28:47.450
It is much easier to be a leader or to
502
00:28:47.490 --> 00:28:50.910
be the captain of the team when you win every game.
503
00:28:51.759 --> 00:28:55.559
When you face little adversity. What's really hard and really
504
00:28:55.720 --> 00:29:02.000
revealing is how you as a leader choose to respond
505
00:29:02.349 --> 00:29:05.140
when you're losing, when you get knocked down, when your
506
00:29:05.240 --> 00:29:08.210
offensive line is struggling, right? How am I going to
507
00:29:08.269 --> 00:29:11.890
respond as the quarterback of the team when they're getting
508
00:29:11.930 --> 00:29:14.970
manhandled by the defensive line and we're losing the game?
509
00:29:15.329 --> 00:29:17.250
How am I going to respond? What am I going
510
00:29:17.289 --> 00:29:19.630
to say? What am I going to do? I think
511
00:29:19.710 --> 00:29:23.559
real leadership The moment that it happens is right now.
512
00:29:23.900 --> 00:29:25.920
That's why there's so many people on this call watching,
513
00:29:25.940 --> 00:29:28.839
I think, because they understand that aspect of it. But
514
00:29:28.880 --> 00:29:31.420
that doesn't mean that it's easy. In fact, it's really hard.
515
00:29:31.420 --> 00:29:34.730
I had conversations with some leaders that I work with
516
00:29:34.730 --> 00:29:37.740
one-on-one earlier today and say, you know, you don't understand
517
00:29:37.759 --> 00:29:41.299
like right now, this is the time. This is the
518
00:29:41.339 --> 00:29:43.960
time that people are going to remember how you chose
519
00:29:44.039 --> 00:29:46.990
to handle it, how you chose to respond. And so Stan,
520
00:29:47.049 --> 00:29:52.349
I have to imagine during your time leading, you're facing
521
00:29:52.430 --> 00:29:57.210
people dying. You feel responsibilities for that. You're losing a war.
522
00:29:57.230 --> 00:30:02.269
I mean, some of the worst stuff ever Those moments, though,
523
00:30:02.329 --> 00:30:05.210
are when the people who said, Stan, I'm with you forever.
524
00:30:05.549 --> 00:30:08.950
It's because of how you responded then. What's your mindset
525
00:30:09.349 --> 00:30:14.750
towards preparing yourself to handle crisis and handle tough situations
526
00:30:15.049 --> 00:30:17.369
and to be the leader in that moment? Because that's
527
00:30:17.410 --> 00:30:18.490
when it's most important.
528
00:30:19.269 --> 00:30:22.089
Yeah. And we've all felt that in some way or another.
529
00:30:22.109 --> 00:30:24.319
I felt it because I fail more than the average person.
530
00:30:25.599 --> 00:30:28.519
I'm experienced in this. I think the first thing you
531
00:30:28.539 --> 00:30:31.500
do is admit it to yourself and A lot of
532
00:30:31.539 --> 00:30:34.779
times when people died, it was my fault. It wasn't
533
00:30:34.839 --> 00:30:37.140
just something that happens at war. It was something I
534
00:30:37.160 --> 00:30:39.680
didn't do well enough. And so it was my fault.
535
00:30:39.700 --> 00:30:42.009
And so you got to just get over that. If
536
00:30:42.029 --> 00:30:45.150
you can't stand that level of responsibility, you shouldn't, you
537
00:30:45.170 --> 00:30:47.490
shouldn't leave. The second thing is you've got to be
538
00:30:47.789 --> 00:30:50.970
honest with your people. I, I work with the Yale
539
00:30:50.990 --> 00:30:53.509
football team on leadership. I've been doing it for nine
540
00:30:53.569 --> 00:30:56.400
years now and I just love them. And I had
541
00:30:56.420 --> 00:30:58.779
their quarterback a couple of years ago in my class
542
00:30:58.819 --> 00:31:02.660
at Yale as well. And, And we were talking about
543
00:31:02.680 --> 00:31:05.910
this very subject. And I said, Morgan, if you throw
544
00:31:05.950 --> 00:31:08.950
an interception or you throw a lousy pass and screw
545
00:31:08.990 --> 00:31:12.029
something up and you come, what do you say when
546
00:31:12.049 --> 00:31:14.509
you get into the huddle? And it was funny. It
547
00:31:14.529 --> 00:31:17.230
surprised me. He says, here's what I don't say. I
548
00:31:17.269 --> 00:31:20.849
don't look at everybody and say, my bad. He said,
549
00:31:21.089 --> 00:31:24.190
they know it was my bad. They know I know
550
00:31:24.230 --> 00:31:27.170
it was my bad. What I say is, here's what
551
00:31:27.230 --> 00:31:30.309
we are going to do now. Because it's about the
552
00:31:30.369 --> 00:31:32.990
next play, not the last play. So I don't think
553
00:31:33.009 --> 00:31:36.009
you go in denial. I don't think you blame it
554
00:31:36.049 --> 00:31:39.630
on other people. I think what you do is you
555
00:31:39.809 --> 00:31:43.109
understand that everybody gets it. You may need to say,
556
00:31:43.130 --> 00:31:45.900
in some cases, you've got to say, okay, we didn't
557
00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:49.440
get that right. My fault. But now here's what we're doing.
558
00:31:50.740 --> 00:31:54.160
It's really key that you keep leading. You don't wallow
559
00:31:54.259 --> 00:31:57.079
in your own self-pity. You don't look for people to go, no, Stan,
560
00:31:57.140 --> 00:32:00.069
it's all right. Let me rub you back for a while. Instead,
561
00:32:00.109 --> 00:32:03.289
what you do is say, we're here to win. If
562
00:32:03.329 --> 00:32:06.059
you're with me, that's what we're focused on. I think
563
00:32:06.099 --> 00:32:09.259
that's what people want right now. I think they want
564
00:32:09.319 --> 00:32:13.240
leaders who are reasonable, meaning they understand that everybody's going
565
00:32:13.259 --> 00:32:17.700
through their own disorientation, dislocation right now. But they also
566
00:32:17.759 --> 00:32:20.539
want people who are going to get it done. I
567
00:32:20.619 --> 00:32:24.450
think if they find that the leader is saying, well,
568
00:32:24.529 --> 00:32:27.589
we really can't operate because we're all operating at home alone.
569
00:32:28.490 --> 00:32:31.470
Most people don't want to be on that team. Most
570
00:32:31.509 --> 00:32:33.230
people want to be on the team that says, okay,
571
00:32:33.250 --> 00:32:35.049
we're going to figure this out. We're going to make mistakes.
572
00:32:35.089 --> 00:32:37.079
We're going to adjust. Let's get it done.
573
00:32:38.500 --> 00:32:44.359
I think of the Stockdale paradox named after Admiral James Stockdale,
574
00:32:44.380 --> 00:32:46.019
which you and I have talked about. He was the
575
00:32:46.059 --> 00:32:50.119
highest ranking POW of the Vietnam War. He described how
576
00:32:50.140 --> 00:32:56.609
a leader would survive terrible ordeals. And his quote, for
577
00:32:56.650 --> 00:32:58.289
those who've probably heard it before, but I think it
578
00:32:58.329 --> 00:33:02.170
applies now, you must never confuse faith that you will
579
00:33:02.230 --> 00:33:05.589
prevail in the end, which you can never afford to lose,
580
00:33:06.230 --> 00:33:10.250
with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of
581
00:33:10.289 --> 00:33:13.789
your current reality, whatever they may be.
582
00:33:14.150 --> 00:33:15.210
And they might be.
583
00:33:15.390 --> 00:33:18.450
I think that, Stan, really seems to apply right now
584
00:33:18.549 --> 00:33:22.289
to what are those people who are scared.
585
00:33:22.180 --> 00:33:23.319
What are they looking for?
586
00:33:23.500 --> 00:33:26.599
Someone that has, I think, that type of mentality towards
587
00:33:26.680 --> 00:33:30.559
how they're going to aggressively think about the situation they
588
00:33:30.599 --> 00:33:31.720
find themselves in now.
589
00:33:32.960 --> 00:33:35.069
I think that's exactly right. You look at a coach,
590
00:33:35.089 --> 00:33:39.029
an admiral, or anybody like that. If the organization gets
591
00:33:39.150 --> 00:33:41.869
stunned like a deer in the headlights and they spend
592
00:33:41.890 --> 00:33:45.450
all their time talking about how much hand sanitizer, they're
593
00:33:45.470 --> 00:33:47.380
missing the point that there's going to be a tomorrow.
594
00:33:48.460 --> 00:33:51.880
So what you do is you say, everybody survive. Here's
595
00:33:51.900 --> 00:33:54.279
what you got to do. Got to do smart stuff. Boom, boom, boom.
596
00:33:54.940 --> 00:33:57.980
We are surviving for a purpose. This purpose is this.
597
00:33:58.500 --> 00:33:59.799
I don't know how long it's going to take us,
598
00:33:59.859 --> 00:34:02.400
but we are going to accomplish that purpose if you
599
00:34:02.420 --> 00:34:04.759
want to be in this organization.
600
00:34:05.720 --> 00:34:09.940
Stan, hitting back, I'm not sure. Maybe I should have
601
00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:10.719
checked with you beforehand.
602
00:34:11.500 --> 00:34:13.420
So I won't go into too many details about what
603
00:34:13.460 --> 00:34:15.800
happened at Gettysburg. But one of the things that I
604
00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:19.889
think is okay to share is I remember so many
605
00:34:19.909 --> 00:34:22.949
of the teachings and you had some great guest teachers
606
00:34:23.369 --> 00:34:26.929
when we toured Gettysburg last year. And one of the
607
00:34:27.010 --> 00:34:30.639
notes that I jotted down before I drove back to the.
608
00:34:30.659 --> 00:34:33.360
Airport was the real lesson.
609
00:34:33.380 --> 00:34:35.360
And I believe this is from you or may have
610
00:34:35.380 --> 00:34:37.960
been from the other teachers, though, at one of the
611
00:34:38.019 --> 00:34:40.840
stops on the tour was it's not tactics.
612
00:34:41.440 --> 00:34:48.730
It's not strategy. It's always about the people. And thinking of.
613
00:34:49.909 --> 00:34:53.139
These high-level strategies and getting down to the tactics of
614
00:34:53.179 --> 00:34:55.119
what we're going to do day-to-day. And when I heard
615
00:34:55.179 --> 00:34:58.199
that and felt that, because some people would say that's
616
00:34:58.239 --> 00:35:01.820
a soft skill as opposed to the proper term, which
617
00:35:01.880 --> 00:35:06.889
is essential skills to develop. And can you follow up
618
00:35:07.010 --> 00:35:11.489
on that of why that is really first and number
619
00:35:11.570 --> 00:35:13.210
one priority above all else?
620
00:35:13.949 --> 00:35:16.690
Yeah. And you remember we had Sir Graham Lamb there
621
00:35:16.769 --> 00:35:19.909
and Greg Vogel and some other heroes. I know.
622
00:35:19.989 --> 00:35:22.960
I remember we each, just for everyone here, you made.
623
00:35:22.860 --> 00:35:24.909
Us all get up the night before we toured Gettysburg
624
00:35:25.300 --> 00:35:27.760
to say, Stan's like, I have a few friends here,
625
00:35:27.780 --> 00:35:30.800
a few guests. And there's this, you know, the head
626
00:35:30.840 --> 00:35:33.940
of this huge thing. There's a British special forces guy
627
00:35:33.980 --> 00:35:37.159
with the incredible accent. There's the American special forces guy
628
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:37.960
who's done it all.
629
00:35:38.389 --> 00:35:40.909
And then there's me. And I think I was last
630
00:35:41.010 --> 00:35:42.110
even to introduce myself.
631
00:35:42.190 --> 00:35:45.449
And I have never, ever felt more out of place
632
00:35:45.489 --> 00:35:47.329
in my life, but I'm so grateful that I was there.
633
00:35:47.769 --> 00:35:50.710
You were absolutely where you should have been with that crowd.
634
00:35:50.869 --> 00:35:53.150
We're all a touch crazy. And so you fit right
635
00:35:53.170 --> 00:35:56.880
there too. What you hit on was exactly right. If
636
00:35:56.909 --> 00:35:59.179
you go back to Gettysburg, one of the things we draw,
637
00:35:59.860 --> 00:36:01.860
and for people who are aware of Gettysburg, you've heard
638
00:36:01.900 --> 00:36:06.130
of Pickett's Charge. And on the third day, this ultimately
639
00:36:06.210 --> 00:36:11.010
futile charge of about 15,000 soldiers tries to cross a
640
00:36:11.250 --> 00:36:15.139
mile of open terrain against an entrenched enemy and it fails.
641
00:36:16.139 --> 00:36:19.380
And you say, well, that was stupid. Why did they
642
00:36:19.440 --> 00:36:22.239
do that? I mean, why would you try it? Low
643
00:36:22.300 --> 00:36:26.260
probability of success. Well, two things were at work that day. One,
644
00:36:26.300 --> 00:36:29.119
where there was a general, Robert E. Lee, who had
645
00:36:29.500 --> 00:36:33.889
built such confidence in what his soldiers could do They
646
00:36:33.929 --> 00:36:37.329
had marched all the way to Pennsylvania, many of them
647
00:36:37.550 --> 00:36:41.489
without footwear. They had gone through two days of fighting.
648
00:36:41.530 --> 00:36:45.409
And now on this third day, he asked them to
649
00:36:45.510 --> 00:36:48.469
do this charge across a mile of open terrain because
650
00:36:48.550 --> 00:36:51.500
he believed that they could do it because so many
651
00:36:51.559 --> 00:36:54.659
times in the war before, they had done just that.
652
00:36:54.860 --> 00:36:59.400
And it was two-way. They believed in him. They believed
653
00:36:59.480 --> 00:37:02.380
that he would not ask them to do anything that
654
00:37:02.420 --> 00:37:05.889
didn't need to be done And he had this incredible
655
00:37:05.949 --> 00:37:10.190
belief that they could do it. Now, again, we can
656
00:37:10.269 --> 00:37:14.150
say it was futile. It was ineffective, but it was
657
00:37:14.309 --> 00:37:19.219
powerful because four o'clock in the afternoon, this group of veterans,
658
00:37:19.280 --> 00:37:21.679
they weren't brand new soldiers. They'd all been through an
659
00:37:21.739 --> 00:37:25.599
awful lot. It seemed comrades die. They line up and
660
00:37:25.639 --> 00:37:29.480
do this charge for that man, for their cause and
661
00:37:29.559 --> 00:37:35.210
for each other. And again, if you realize just how
662
00:37:35.309 --> 00:37:39.369
powerful those connections and the ability to inspire people can be,
663
00:37:39.809 --> 00:37:42.789
you see it on sports fields, you see it in
664
00:37:42.849 --> 00:37:47.159
organizations where people sacrifice because ultimately we want to, we
665
00:37:47.179 --> 00:37:50.019
don't want to sacrifice and die, but we want to,
666
00:37:51.099 --> 00:37:53.760
we want to commit ourselves to something because it is
667
00:37:53.920 --> 00:37:59.480
so utterly fulfilling. We want to be relied upon by
668
00:37:59.559 --> 00:38:02.539
other people. There's a great line in, Of course, the
669
00:38:02.579 --> 00:38:05.079
greatest movie ever made, The Outlaw Josie Wales, the old
670
00:38:05.840 --> 00:38:08.739
Clint Eastwood movie. I say that with tongue in cheek.
671
00:38:09.400 --> 00:38:12.260
But he has a young comrade who dies. And he
672
00:38:12.300 --> 00:38:14.400
didn't know the guy very well. And the guy died
673
00:38:15.090 --> 00:38:20.150
in this unfortunate shooting. And old Clint Eastwood stands up
674
00:38:20.190 --> 00:38:23.769
there as the ultimate cowboy chewing tobacco. And he's going
675
00:38:23.789 --> 00:38:27.510
to say something over the grave. And he says, well,
676
00:38:27.570 --> 00:38:29.489
all I can say is I rode with him and
677
00:38:29.510 --> 00:38:30.449
I got no complaints.
678
00:38:31.429 --> 00:38:31.500
Hmm.
679
00:38:32.070 --> 00:38:34.309
And if you think about what would you like people
680
00:38:34.329 --> 00:38:37.000
to say at your funeral, that wouldn't be bad.
681
00:38:39.920 --> 00:38:41.099
I love it.
682
00:38:42.820 --> 00:38:47.420
I'm curious for how people can personally choose to behave
683
00:38:47.460 --> 00:38:51.510
in these times, Stan. And James Clear is a guy
684
00:38:51.550 --> 00:38:54.889
I've done a number of podcasts with and have... been
685
00:38:54.949 --> 00:38:57.909
fortunate to, to, to talk with for years now. And
686
00:38:57.949 --> 00:39:00.849
he wrote an incredible book called atomic habits. That's, that's
687
00:39:00.869 --> 00:39:04.309
done very well. And one of the things that him
688
00:39:04.349 --> 00:39:09.329
and I had talked about at one point was about persistence. And, uh, he,
689
00:39:09.429 --> 00:39:11.349
he's just written about this and published it recently. Um,
690
00:39:11.949 --> 00:39:17.079
but his, his definition of persistence is a little bit
691
00:39:17.199 --> 00:39:20.480
unique because he relates it to patients. Cause right now
692
00:39:20.579 --> 00:39:22.139
people are saying we have to, we have to be
693
00:39:22.219 --> 00:39:25.420
patient and there's uncertainty. We don't fully know. And, and,
694
00:39:25.539 --> 00:39:27.480
and James, there's a quote from him that I want
695
00:39:27.500 --> 00:39:29.050
to share and get your thoughts on. He says the
696
00:39:29.090 --> 00:39:34.199
most useful form of of patience is persistence. Patience implies
697
00:39:34.280 --> 00:39:38.340
waiting for things to improve on their own. Persistence implies
698
00:39:38.699 --> 00:39:43.000
keeping your head down and continuing to work when things
699
00:39:43.079 --> 00:39:48.199
take longer than you expect. And that, in this very moment,
700
00:39:49.050 --> 00:39:53.590
speaks to me as to say, I've had six figures
701
00:39:53.630 --> 00:39:56.809
worth of keynote speaking gigs canceled over the next three months.
702
00:39:57.010 --> 00:39:59.530
I'm sure you've got a lot of that type of
703
00:39:59.570 --> 00:40:00.170
stuff happening.
704
00:40:00.590 --> 00:40:03.139
And instead of just saying, well, 2020 is going to
705
00:40:03.179 --> 00:40:05.239
be a brutal year. I guess I just have to
706
00:40:05.260 --> 00:40:08.230
put my hands up and take it as an L.
707
00:40:08.900 --> 00:40:13.059
Or persistently saying, let's figure something creative out. Let's do
708
00:40:13.119 --> 00:40:15.539
something different. Let's keep our head down and keep working
709
00:40:15.579 --> 00:40:18.400
and keep at it. And I know that's the way
710
00:40:18.440 --> 00:40:20.940
you operate as well. And so that's actually why this
711
00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:22.659
is happening. We're doing this live. I didn't know if
712
00:40:22.679 --> 00:40:24.579
it would work and I'm happy that it is. But
713
00:40:25.159 --> 00:40:29.639
how do you view patience and persistence, especially right now?
714
00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:33.320
Yeah, no, I like the definition as you're using it
715
00:40:33.380 --> 00:40:39.050
there because patience does sound passive. You can't do anything
716
00:40:39.090 --> 00:40:43.289
about things. And I think persistence sometimes means it takes
717
00:40:43.389 --> 00:40:45.090
a long time to do something. I draw a couple
718
00:40:45.130 --> 00:40:47.730
of examples to you that I've studied. One is the
719
00:40:47.789 --> 00:40:52.929
Montgomery bus boycott in 1955. And this was the African-American
720
00:40:52.989 --> 00:40:57.320
community in Montgomery, Alabama. My family's from Alabama, so I'm
721
00:40:57.780 --> 00:41:02.119
sensitive to this. They wanted to integrate public transportation. And
722
00:41:02.139 --> 00:41:05.980
this is when Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat. Well,
723
00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:09.159
to do this, what they did was they boycotted all
724
00:41:09.320 --> 00:41:15.179
use of public transportation. And for 382 days, They walked
725
00:41:15.219 --> 00:41:18.050
to work, they carpooled, they did everything they could to
726
00:41:18.110 --> 00:41:22.730
put pressure. Now, 382 days is a long time. They
727
00:41:22.869 --> 00:41:26.929
met once a week to give themselves inspiration, to keep
728
00:41:26.949 --> 00:41:30.579
their confidence up. But every day they had to commit themselves.
729
00:41:31.199 --> 00:41:35.079
And I would say that that persistence is what ultimately
730
00:41:35.119 --> 00:41:37.940
allowed them to wear down the resistance that they met
731
00:41:38.519 --> 00:41:43.360
and to win that particular struggle. You know, sometimes we
732
00:41:43.420 --> 00:41:47.199
shouldn't have to be as patiently persistent as we are.
733
00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:50.360
But the reality is, if you stay at it, it works.
734
00:41:50.519 --> 00:41:53.699
Admiral Stockdale, who you mentioned, you know, famous as a POW.
735
00:41:54.409 --> 00:41:56.210
One of the things that comes out of his story
736
00:41:56.989 --> 00:42:02.070
is that he went into captivity with expectations of himself
737
00:42:02.190 --> 00:42:05.489
as a military officer and a professional, and he would
738
00:42:05.530 --> 00:42:08.849
give name, rank and serial number. Well, what he learned
739
00:42:08.889 --> 00:42:12.360
very quickly is when you're under torture, that's not realistic.
740
00:42:12.860 --> 00:42:16.489
when you're under torture, you will be broken. You will talk,
741
00:42:16.530 --> 00:42:20.929
you will say or sign things ultimately that you're embarrassed about.
742
00:42:22.150 --> 00:42:25.369
But his persistence and really the incredible strength of his
743
00:42:25.409 --> 00:42:29.210
character is he was able to recognize that like any
744
00:42:29.269 --> 00:42:32.849
other human, he could be broken. He could be physically broken.
745
00:42:32.889 --> 00:42:36.769
He could be morally damaged, but he didn't make that
746
00:42:36.809 --> 00:42:40.340
the new normal. He said, I will be persistent. The
747
00:42:40.409 --> 00:42:42.409
next time I go in, I will be just as
748
00:42:42.489 --> 00:42:44.389
professional as I can be for as long as I
749
00:42:44.409 --> 00:42:47.010
can be. I'll hold out. And he would hold on
750
00:42:47.070 --> 00:42:50.889
to his values like a mooring for a boat that
751
00:42:50.969 --> 00:42:53.550
gave him a sense of stability. And I think it's
752
00:42:53.570 --> 00:42:56.929
an incredible lesson for all of us. You know, two
753
00:42:56.969 --> 00:43:00.289
months ago, you know, I'm a retired military guy. You
754
00:43:00.309 --> 00:43:02.050
don't come out of the military with a lot of money.
755
00:43:02.769 --> 00:43:05.849
Two months ago, I had more money in my 401k
756
00:43:05.889 --> 00:43:09.610
and all than I do now. And now, I've got
757
00:43:09.659 --> 00:43:12.199
a business and we're working real hard to make sure
758
00:43:12.219 --> 00:43:14.360
the business is going to stay afloat and go in
759
00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:17.739
the right direction. And a lot of other things in
760
00:43:17.780 --> 00:43:22.059
my life are not as certain as they seem 60
761
00:43:22.059 --> 00:43:27.070
days ago. But, you know, we stay at it.
762
00:43:27.889 --> 00:43:30.309
I was going to say, how do you mentally handle that?
763
00:43:30.610 --> 00:43:33.510
Are there some things you do, like practical things? And
764
00:43:33.530 --> 00:43:35.409
it's only been a few days since we've been on
765
00:43:35.429 --> 00:43:39.079
this kind of lockdown setup that we're in. But from
766
00:43:39.159 --> 00:43:42.010
working out to what you, I know you're famous for
767
00:43:42.860 --> 00:43:44.530
what you eat. And if you want to share, you
768
00:43:44.550 --> 00:43:47.429
can do that now too. But what's like your routine
769
00:43:47.489 --> 00:43:51.530
now as you're getting into the new temporary normal?
770
00:43:52.050 --> 00:43:56.030
Now, that's great. First, I believe very strongly that you
771
00:43:56.070 --> 00:43:58.590
navigate from where you are, not from where you wish
772
00:43:58.630 --> 00:44:02.380
you were. And so 60 days, it's different than it
773
00:44:02.409 --> 00:44:05.460
was 60 days ago. So what I'm doing is navigating
774
00:44:05.500 --> 00:44:08.820
from here. I do start every day. I had a
775
00:44:08.860 --> 00:44:11.690
series of back operations over the winter, three of them.
776
00:44:12.489 --> 00:44:15.949
And I'm recovering from those, but I'm back working out.
777
00:44:16.489 --> 00:44:20.429
And so for me, it's the daily discipline of doing
778
00:44:20.449 --> 00:44:23.699
the working out. You mentioned I eat one meal a day,
779
00:44:24.159 --> 00:44:26.900
just a habit. It's not a Zen strength or anything,
780
00:44:27.039 --> 00:44:31.079
but it's a habit I have that makes me feel
781
00:44:31.119 --> 00:44:33.840
like I am disciplined and it helps me, you know,
782
00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:37.219
from gain of weight or that sort of thing. But
783
00:44:37.260 --> 00:44:42.619
the most important thing is like with my team and
784
00:44:42.679 --> 00:44:45.460
our company, every day we meet at eight o'clock in
785
00:44:45.480 --> 00:44:47.619
the morning, virtually the whole company gets on the thing
786
00:44:47.639 --> 00:44:49.500
and we talk about, okay, what are we doing now?
787
00:44:49.539 --> 00:44:51.780
Where are we going? How are we adjusting? What are
788
00:44:51.820 --> 00:44:52.760
ideas we can do?
789
00:44:52.940 --> 00:44:54.739
How many, how many people is that? I'm just, just,
790
00:44:54.889 --> 00:44:56.179
just to get tactical here for a second.
791
00:44:56.239 --> 00:44:58.269
About 90, 92.
792
00:44:58.269 --> 00:45:00.369
So you get 90 people every day at eight o'clock.
793
00:45:00.690 --> 00:45:01.369
Yeah. Gotcha.
794
00:45:01.389 --> 00:45:02.070
Okay. Okay.
795
00:45:02.500 --> 00:45:06.099
And so it gets everybody in the huddle and we go, okay,
796
00:45:06.119 --> 00:45:08.559
here's what we're doing. People give their different things. And
797
00:45:08.579 --> 00:45:11.949
then all day we're on chat and things like that.
798
00:45:12.690 --> 00:45:15.150
Because in this uncertain environment, we're trying to help our
799
00:45:15.210 --> 00:45:18.710
clients navigate through this. We're trying to get thought content out.
800
00:45:18.730 --> 00:45:23.389
We're trying to understand how we best adapt to be effective.
801
00:45:23.889 --> 00:45:26.010
We set up, I've got a little studio in my
802
00:45:26.070 --> 00:45:29.289
home office now. We brought in a high intensity camera,
803
00:45:29.349 --> 00:45:31.989
got the IT specialist from the company together with me.
804
00:45:32.579 --> 00:45:36.239
so that we can do these things really quickly, really easily.
805
00:45:36.260 --> 00:45:41.000
And I think there'll be countless adaptations like that where
806
00:45:41.019 --> 00:45:43.539
we learn to be better so we can be effective
807
00:45:43.559 --> 00:45:44.340
in the new environment.
808
00:45:46.030 --> 00:45:47.800
Stan, if you're good, I'd like to open up for
809
00:45:47.840 --> 00:45:50.090
a few questions. A few people sent them to me
810
00:45:50.170 --> 00:45:52.489
prior to the call. I'd like them to, if I
811
00:45:52.530 --> 00:45:55.989
can unmute this properly, to have them ask you directly.
812
00:45:56.190 --> 00:45:56.590
Is that cool?
813
00:45:57.090 --> 00:45:57.590
Absolutely.
814
00:45:58.030 --> 00:46:00.429
Nikki Bosco, are you good to go first? I'm going
815
00:46:00.449 --> 00:46:03.190
to unmute you. Nikki, are you there?
816
00:46:03.210 --> 00:46:04.710
I think so.
817
00:46:04.750 --> 00:46:05.280
There you are.
818
00:46:05.510 --> 00:46:06.070
Hey, yeah, yeah.
819
00:46:06.090 --> 00:46:06.690
Go ahead, Nikki.
820
00:46:07.489 --> 00:46:08.670
Thank you, Stan, so much.
821
00:46:08.710 --> 00:46:15.030
This is incredibly useful and inspiring. My question is maybe
822
00:46:15.090 --> 00:46:18.110
around that moment you have each morning with those folks
823
00:46:18.170 --> 00:46:22.070
on the call and you've done your best to lead yourself,
824
00:46:22.610 --> 00:46:26.769
you're showing up, you're inspiring. I'm wondering what the signals
825
00:46:26.949 --> 00:46:29.280
are amongst that group that you might be picking up
826
00:46:29.510 --> 00:46:32.679
on either as a whole group think, or that you
827
00:46:32.699 --> 00:46:36.539
might notice in an individual that would let you alert
828
00:46:36.559 --> 00:46:38.380
you to like, okay, I need to take action or
829
00:46:38.440 --> 00:46:39.239
help re-steer.
830
00:46:40.139 --> 00:46:43.260
Yeah, that's a great question because you do get those.
831
00:46:44.099 --> 00:46:46.199
Sometimes you pick them up in a personal, this one
832
00:46:46.260 --> 00:46:48.639
video is so much better than just call or something
833
00:46:49.280 --> 00:46:52.480
because you'll see a little of that. What we'll see is,
834
00:46:52.500 --> 00:46:55.940
you know, the stock market tanks, A lot of clients
835
00:46:55.960 --> 00:46:58.519
start pushing business to the right or canceling because in
836
00:46:58.559 --> 00:47:02.110
this environment, everybody wants to hoard cash. And suddenly people
837
00:47:02.139 --> 00:47:05.130
start to feel like they're failing. And so we've got
838
00:47:05.250 --> 00:47:07.610
team members out there and they've been working with a client.
839
00:47:07.630 --> 00:47:10.269
The client says, okay, we're going to stop work. And
840
00:47:10.289 --> 00:47:12.889
they feel like I failed. And so one of the
841
00:47:12.909 --> 00:47:15.309
things you've got to do is build their confidence back up.
842
00:47:15.929 --> 00:47:18.380
You got to say, one, it's okay to fail. We're
843
00:47:18.469 --> 00:47:22.059
all going to fail and look around. It's happening. But two,
844
00:47:22.119 --> 00:47:24.920
it's not okay to to not pick it up and
845
00:47:24.960 --> 00:47:26.800
get moving again, because that's what we have to do.
846
00:47:27.579 --> 00:47:31.699
And so it's funny, our, our morning call some mornings,
847
00:47:32.199 --> 00:47:34.980
it's mostly inspiration. Hey, thanks for what you're doing. Everybody's
848
00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:38.550
doing good. Some mornings it's kind of kicking the butt. Hey,
849
00:47:38.639 --> 00:47:42.070
we're not moving fast enough. Boom, boom, boom. Some days
850
00:47:42.320 --> 00:47:46.309
it's a self-critical of what we're doing as a company. Hey,
851
00:47:46.349 --> 00:47:48.329
we're doing this, but it's not working well. We gotta,
852
00:47:48.690 --> 00:47:51.750
we gotta fix this. And then some days it's exactly
853
00:47:51.769 --> 00:47:55.900
as you talk. People are, starting to lack confidence, or
854
00:47:55.920 --> 00:48:02.429
they are starting to almost take on a passive aggressive response.
855
00:48:02.489 --> 00:48:05.710
Because they're frustrated with themselves, they're frustrated with the environment,
856
00:48:06.070 --> 00:48:08.630
and it's sort of, screw it, quit telling me to
857
00:48:09.150 --> 00:48:13.840
do that because it ain't working. And you got to go, well,
858
00:48:14.340 --> 00:48:19.039
something's got to work. Here's the guidance, figure out what works,
859
00:48:19.099 --> 00:48:22.619
and that's what we'll do. Um, it's funny because every
860
00:48:22.679 --> 00:48:26.159
day it, it evolves a little bit. And so it
861
00:48:26.219 --> 00:48:30.559
takes a tremendous amount of paying close attention. What you
862
00:48:30.619 --> 00:48:33.199
can't do is go in and what I found, don't
863
00:48:33.300 --> 00:48:35.280
go in with a script you wrote the night before
864
00:48:36.320 --> 00:48:39.260
and wrote people, you know, and tell people what you
865
00:48:39.449 --> 00:48:43.289
thought at 10 o'clock last night, wait and see what
866
00:48:44.070 --> 00:48:47.050
the mood and morale of the organization is because it's organic.
867
00:48:49.230 --> 00:48:56.260
Good stuff. Um, Let's go to Matthew Mullins. You good, man? Yep,
868
00:48:56.360 --> 00:48:59.199
I'm good. Go for it. Yeah, go for it. Stan,
869
00:48:59.260 --> 00:48:59.639
thank you.
870
00:48:59.800 --> 00:49:05.369
This is really awesome. So my question is, in times
871
00:49:05.469 --> 00:49:09.550
of adversity and uncertainty, how do leaders ensure that their
872
00:49:09.590 --> 00:49:13.710
people are prepared and confident to thrive and maintain their
873
00:49:13.750 --> 00:49:15.469
character through those moments?
874
00:49:15.969 --> 00:49:19.550
Yeah, that's a good one because you hit a key
875
00:49:19.590 --> 00:49:23.940
word there. character, because when things get painful, particularly for
876
00:49:23.960 --> 00:49:26.840
younger members of the team, they're not sure what the
877
00:49:26.880 --> 00:49:30.619
right answer is. So if suddenly you've got to do
878
00:49:30.679 --> 00:49:35.619
things to get revenue or whatever that you didn't do before,
879
00:49:36.219 --> 00:49:38.989
is it okay because we're in a crisis? The answer
880
00:49:39.030 --> 00:49:43.190
is no. And so the leadership has got to come
881
00:49:43.210 --> 00:49:45.449
from the top that says, you know, we're going to
882
00:49:45.489 --> 00:49:48.380
get through this crisis. And when we finish, we're going
883
00:49:48.400 --> 00:49:50.460
to have to look in the mirror. We're going to
884
00:49:50.480 --> 00:49:52.099
have to be able to live with ourselves and we're
885
00:49:52.119 --> 00:49:53.820
going to have to be able to live with each other.
886
00:49:53.840 --> 00:49:56.019
We're not going to, we don't want to be embarrassed
887
00:49:56.059 --> 00:50:00.000
by something that we individually have done or we as
888
00:50:00.280 --> 00:50:03.719
an organization have done. And as you know, it's tempting
889
00:50:03.800 --> 00:50:07.409
to do that. In the fight against Al Qaeda, it
890
00:50:07.449 --> 00:50:10.610
got pretty grim and there were great temptations to sort
891
00:50:10.670 --> 00:50:13.909
of take the gloves off and fight in ways that
892
00:50:13.929 --> 00:50:17.150
we would not have done before. But we realized that
893
00:50:17.170 --> 00:50:20.190
was a slippery slope and you don't wanna be on
894
00:50:20.230 --> 00:50:24.429
that one. Young people need to have this reaffirmed for
895
00:50:24.489 --> 00:50:28.079
them constantly. One of the things we found is you
896
00:50:28.119 --> 00:50:32.460
have to be careful about how you talk about certain things.
897
00:50:32.539 --> 00:50:34.280
If you get in front of the company and you say,
898
00:50:34.300 --> 00:50:38.659
the priority is revenue, revenue, revenue, at a certain point,
899
00:50:39.570 --> 00:50:42.250
What they do is they go, okay, it's revenue. I
900
00:50:42.269 --> 00:50:46.079
got it. You've got to be careful because if you
901
00:50:46.119 --> 00:50:50.239
say revenue at all costs, you'll pay all costs. And
902
00:50:50.340 --> 00:50:54.400
so there's got to be a pretty nuanced or careful
903
00:50:54.460 --> 00:50:58.260
approach to communicating. And I say young people, that actually
904
00:50:58.320 --> 00:51:01.659
applies to people at every level of the organization. And
905
00:51:01.679 --> 00:51:04.340
then the last thing I'd say is people watch what
906
00:51:04.409 --> 00:51:08.489
leaders do every moment. I mean, they watch how you work.
907
00:51:09.039 --> 00:51:13.360
how your, your facial expressions on a video teleconference, they
908
00:51:13.400 --> 00:51:17.579
watch whether you pay attention, they watch whether you cut corners.
909
00:51:18.360 --> 00:51:20.980
And the worst thing you can do is get what
910
00:51:21.019 --> 00:51:23.980
we call a say do gap where you speak a
911
00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:26.039
bunch of platitudes about how we're going to act. And
912
00:51:26.079 --> 00:51:28.760
then they know that that's not the way you're acting.
913
00:51:29.500 --> 00:51:31.900
Once you have a say do gap, your credibility is,
914
00:51:32.119 --> 00:51:32.780
is undermined.
915
00:51:34.840 --> 00:51:35.199
Thank you.
916
00:51:35.599 --> 00:51:36.179
Thank you.
917
00:51:36.579 --> 00:51:37.119
I love that.
918
00:51:37.519 --> 00:51:40.480
Uh, Say-do gap. I haven't heard it used that way,
919
00:51:40.519 --> 00:51:44.260
but I think that is so true. And we've all, unfortunately,
920
00:51:44.300 --> 00:51:47.400
probably worked for a boss at one point in our
921
00:51:47.440 --> 00:51:50.320
career who had a big say-do gap, and that's certainly
922
00:51:50.380 --> 00:51:51.000
not useful.
923
00:51:51.800 --> 00:51:55.409
Since Ed Epley in the chat just wrote, how.
924
00:51:57.269 --> 00:51:59.349
Well, he wrote that privately, so sorry for saying your
925
00:51:59.449 --> 00:52:02.730
name already, Ed, but I thought it was public. The question, though,
926
00:52:02.989 --> 00:52:08.030
is how would you potentially... fire somebody during this time?
927
00:52:08.309 --> 00:52:10.949
If you had to, for whatever reason, somebody needs to
928
00:52:10.989 --> 00:52:14.090
be fired. It's obviously a sensitive time. There's a lot
929
00:52:14.150 --> 00:52:16.750
of things going on. How would you do it right now?
930
00:52:17.389 --> 00:52:20.190
Yeah, this is really hard. A lot of people are
931
00:52:20.210 --> 00:52:23.090
going to get fired right now. And it's happening probably
932
00:52:23.150 --> 00:52:26.929
every minute today and in the coming future. I think
933
00:52:26.949 --> 00:52:28.610
the first thing you got to do is make sure
934
00:52:28.659 --> 00:52:30.840
you're doing it for the right reason. If somebody is
935
00:52:30.860 --> 00:52:35.179
being fired for misconduct or they're just not effective, okay,
936
00:52:35.199 --> 00:52:38.849
you do that like it. Anytime you would. But if
937
00:52:38.929 --> 00:52:44.050
you have a situation where the financial situation in the
938
00:52:44.150 --> 00:52:49.480
organization is such that you cannot be economically viable, you're
939
00:52:49.519 --> 00:52:53.139
in this tension. Everybody wants to be the person that says, well,
940
00:52:53.219 --> 00:52:56.420
we'll take care of everybody because we're good people. If
941
00:52:56.460 --> 00:52:59.119
that causes the company to go bankrupt, you didn't take
942
00:52:59.159 --> 00:53:03.440
care of anybody. And so what I would say is
943
00:53:03.460 --> 00:53:08.019
I would first explain it. to the organization. Most people
944
00:53:08.099 --> 00:53:11.769
know the general financial situation and they can certainly watch
945
00:53:11.809 --> 00:53:15.329
the news and the projections. So explain to people, this
946
00:53:15.489 --> 00:53:18.409
is the economic reality. This is what we have to do.
947
00:53:19.469 --> 00:53:23.179
Then as you deal with each layoff or firing that
948
00:53:23.199 --> 00:53:25.539
you have to do, you have to do this with
949
00:53:25.619 --> 00:53:29.280
as much grace and as much class as possible, as
950
00:53:29.360 --> 00:53:33.099
though you're the person being let go. You got to say,
951
00:53:33.840 --> 00:53:36.440
how would you like to be informed? How would you
952
00:53:36.460 --> 00:53:39.230
like to be treated? In fact, I think now is
953
00:53:39.269 --> 00:53:42.610
a time because these are mostly economic layoffs. You're really
954
00:53:42.769 --> 00:53:46.650
celebrating somebody's service to the organization and you're mourning the
955
00:53:46.710 --> 00:53:49.170
fact you got to lose them. But it's just an
956
00:53:49.250 --> 00:53:51.550
economic reality. Doesn't mean people are going to like it
957
00:53:51.610 --> 00:53:53.989
or feel good about it, but they're going to feel
958
00:53:54.010 --> 00:53:57.820
a lot better than if you don't treat people as
959
00:53:57.860 --> 00:53:58.389
they should be.
960
00:53:58.989 --> 00:54:01.860
Yeah. I'm going to go to Tom Carvelli. Tom, are
961
00:54:01.900 --> 00:54:03.940
you on? I just unmuted you. Should be good.
962
00:54:04.699 --> 00:54:05.429
I am here.
963
00:54:05.639 --> 00:54:06.800
All right, go ahead.
964
00:54:08.099 --> 00:54:10.320
I actually had two, but I.
965
00:54:11.860 --> 00:54:14.940
Am the kind of guy that likes to sort of
966
00:54:15.500 --> 00:54:18.940
boil things down to like what I'll call like a
967
00:54:19.099 --> 00:54:19.639
one liner.
968
00:54:20.159 --> 00:54:21.980
And the question that I had.
969
00:54:21.880 --> 00:54:23.780
For you was if you had to sum up your
970
00:54:23.820 --> 00:54:27.960
leadership principles into a single unified concept, what would that be?
971
00:54:28.780 --> 00:54:35.989
Yeah. If you're talking leadership now, not management of an organization,
972
00:54:36.610 --> 00:54:39.610
then I think it really comes around the idea that
973
00:54:40.050 --> 00:54:43.909
it must be based on character, character that you have
974
00:54:44.110 --> 00:54:48.179
and that you are willing and disciplined enough to exhibit.
975
00:54:48.800 --> 00:54:51.619
And then it's being focused on the welfare of the team.
976
00:54:52.380 --> 00:54:54.860
And the welfare of the team includes the team succeeding
977
00:54:54.880 --> 00:54:59.739
in what they're doing. That seems really simplistic, but it's
978
00:54:59.800 --> 00:55:05.699
really not. comporting yourself in a way that becomes a
979
00:55:05.800 --> 00:55:11.440
positive example and inspiration to them, but also is looking out,
980
00:55:11.780 --> 00:55:15.239
your actions look out for their welfare. Thank you.
981
00:55:15.980 --> 00:55:16.969
Go ahead with number two, Tom.
982
00:55:17.550 --> 00:55:19.309
Number two.
983
00:55:19.989 --> 00:55:22.650
What does your daily fitness routine look like in times
984
00:55:22.690 --> 00:55:27.489
like these when resources and activities are curtailed? And sort
985
00:55:27.510 --> 00:55:32.139
of the impetus for this question was I heard you
986
00:55:32.239 --> 00:55:37.019
on a podcast with Tim Ferriss and Chris Fussell, where
987
00:55:37.059 --> 00:55:39.960
you detailed your morning routine, which I thought was very impressive.
988
00:55:40.659 --> 00:55:45.050
And I'm just wondering what that looks like right now. Yeah, well,
989
00:55:45.329 --> 00:55:48.510
right now, because I'm just off back surgery, I am
990
00:55:48.989 --> 00:55:52.570
somewhat curtailed, but I do at least an hour every morning.
991
00:55:52.630 --> 00:55:55.289
And I always do it in the morning because everybody
992
00:55:55.349 --> 00:55:57.070
else can screw with the rest of your day, but
993
00:55:57.090 --> 00:55:58.570
they can't screw with very early morning.
994
00:56:00.449 --> 00:56:02.309
How am I starting my days now? Good question.
995
00:56:02.849 --> 00:56:06.610
Feel free to ask questions if you guys want. Well,
996
00:56:07.449 --> 00:56:10.110
the tough thing is having a gym closed is really
997
00:56:10.170 --> 00:56:13.510
hard for me considering that that is a huge part
998
00:56:13.550 --> 00:56:18.269
of my routine. So having that closed has been tough,
999
00:56:18.409 --> 00:56:22.409
but we do have a decent amount of home gym
1000
00:56:22.449 --> 00:56:26.280
equipment that my wife and I have used all along.
1001
00:56:26.320 --> 00:56:28.199
So I do still get up at the same time,
1002
00:56:28.340 --> 00:56:31.110
still do the same type of workouts. with what we
1003
00:56:31.150 --> 00:56:34.150
have because I'm a big morning workout guy too. That
1004
00:56:34.190 --> 00:56:36.409
kind of helps get the day started properly for me.
1005
00:56:37.530 --> 00:56:39.840
And now though, given we're lucky, we live by a
1006
00:56:39.940 --> 00:56:42.380
park with a lot of open space. So we go
1007
00:56:42.440 --> 00:56:45.840
on at least two long walks a day and I
1008
00:56:45.880 --> 00:56:47.880
went on one this morning and I'll hopefully go on
1009
00:56:47.960 --> 00:56:52.099
one tonight if it's not raining too hard. So yeah,
1010
00:56:52.639 --> 00:56:56.239
it hasn't actually changed very much other than the fact
1011
00:56:56.280 --> 00:56:58.679
that I'm not able to go to the gym that
1012
00:56:58.719 --> 00:57:02.550
I normally go to. But it's tough. It's definitely different.
1013
00:57:03.570 --> 00:57:05.909
But I understand that the gym may be closed for
1014
00:57:05.969 --> 00:57:07.969
quite some time. So if so, then we have to
1015
00:57:08.030 --> 00:57:10.929
figure out our new normal. We may be ordering some
1016
00:57:10.969 --> 00:57:13.230
new stuff for our home gym to make it more
1017
00:57:13.289 --> 00:57:16.199
like what we're used to. But hey, I mean, in
1018
00:57:16.219 --> 00:57:18.960
the grand scheme of things, that's a first world problem.
1019
00:57:19.599 --> 00:57:22.099
So we'll make do with what we got.
1020
00:57:23.119 --> 00:57:25.119
Appreciate the kind words. We will do more of these.
1021
00:57:25.989 --> 00:57:28.829
It's hard though when you start with somebody like Stan,
1022
00:57:29.010 --> 00:57:30.659
just so everybody can hear.
1023
00:57:31.280 --> 00:57:33.380
Usually you would build up to something like this. You
1024
00:57:33.400 --> 00:57:34.500
wouldn't start with this.
1025
00:57:35.219 --> 00:57:38.800
So I may have messed up my ordering, but I
1026
00:57:38.840 --> 00:57:41.000
thought I always like to swing for the fences just
1027
00:57:41.039 --> 00:57:45.699
like I did with the forward of my book by
1028
00:57:45.780 --> 00:57:48.400
asking Stan. I made a list of five people and
1029
00:57:48.420 --> 00:57:51.179
he was number one and everyone else was pretty far below.
1030
00:57:51.260 --> 00:57:54.300
And then when you're home run, Swing actually comes through.
1031
00:57:54.360 --> 00:57:57.300
It's pretty wild. And he did, which was cool. And
1032
00:57:57.320 --> 00:58:00.119
I did the same thing for this first ever live virtual.
1033
00:58:00.599 --> 00:58:04.300
And then Stan replied immediately saying, oh, yes, we're definitely
1034
00:58:04.340 --> 00:58:07.429
doing this. So I'll do my best to try to
1035
00:58:07.469 --> 00:58:08.929
make these as useful.
1036
00:58:08.650 --> 00:58:12.449
For everyone while we're dealing with our current situation.
1037
00:58:13.710 --> 00:58:13.909
Okay.
1038
00:58:13.949 --> 00:58:14.449
Go ahead, Lance.
1039
00:58:15.070 --> 00:58:15.530
Can you hear me?
1040
00:58:15.690 --> 00:58:17.510
Yeah, we got you. We got you. All right.
1041
00:58:18.530 --> 00:58:20.150
Let me just say first, it's a real honor to
1042
00:58:20.190 --> 00:58:22.409
be able to talk to you, Stan and Ryan. Excellent
1043
00:58:22.429 --> 00:58:25.289
job putting this together. It's really cool. My question is
1044
00:58:25.329 --> 00:58:29.269
about communication in particular. It's the kind of the workspace
1045
00:58:29.309 --> 00:58:32.530
that I work with folks in. And we noticed in
1046
00:58:32.570 --> 00:58:35.510
everybody who's in any kind of organization, you see leaders
1047
00:58:35.550 --> 00:58:38.570
kind of go into one of two kind of inertia paths, right?
1048
00:58:38.719 --> 00:58:45.619
One is either the box-checking, necessary evil kind of thing.
1049
00:58:45.659 --> 00:58:48.340
It's not really leadership. It's just kind of, you got
1050
00:58:48.360 --> 00:58:52.889
to do it. Or it's overly managed, almost crafting with
1051
00:58:52.909 --> 00:58:55.429
the PR team. If we have a good story to tell,
1052
00:58:55.469 --> 00:58:57.670
we can say it almost like magic words and everybody
1053
00:58:57.690 --> 00:59:00.929
will buy it. And nobody ever does. So can you
1054
00:59:00.949 --> 00:59:03.389
talk a little bit about how, not just yourself, but
1055
00:59:03.570 --> 00:59:06.510
other leaders in your orbit to buy into not doing
1056
00:59:06.690 --> 00:59:07.789
either of those two things?
1057
00:59:08.909 --> 00:59:12.099
Yeah, those are great. points because particularly now, and I
1058
00:59:12.159 --> 00:59:14.159
see it, I was on a number of corporate boards
1059
00:59:14.179 --> 00:59:18.590
and whatnot. You've got lawyers recommending people don't communicate unless
1060
00:59:18.619 --> 00:59:21.210
you've put it through six lawyers. And I'm a lawyer,
1061
00:59:21.250 --> 00:59:27.690
they suck. Yeah, and so it stops being communication. Right.
1062
00:59:27.829 --> 00:59:31.489
And so what I think, a leader has got to
1063
00:59:31.510 --> 00:59:35.389
do is be as genuine as possible, but not be
1064
00:59:35.429 --> 00:59:39.190
emotional either. I'm not a great believer in sort of
1065
00:59:39.210 --> 00:59:43.159
the populist school of too much rent and against something
1066
00:59:43.199 --> 00:59:46.360
or for something because it starts to muddy the message.
1067
00:59:47.059 --> 00:59:52.030
But I think being consistent, being genuine to themselves and
1068
00:59:52.090 --> 00:59:55.369
being as candid as possible with their team is just
1069
00:59:55.449 --> 00:59:58.530
extraordinarily important. And I think people I know I appreciate
1070
00:59:58.550 --> 01:00:01.070
it when people talk to me that way. And it's
1071
01:00:01.110 --> 01:00:04.510
good to have somebody you trust in the organization that
1072
01:00:05.130 --> 01:00:07.239
has your ear, that can talk to you in a
1073
01:00:07.300 --> 01:00:09.820
way that maybe other people aren't allowed to. I used
1074
01:00:09.840 --> 01:00:12.559
to have a command sergeant major. And what he was
1075
01:00:12.639 --> 01:00:15.179
able to do was tell me just when I was
1076
01:00:15.199 --> 01:00:18.619
feeling good about myself that, no, you're not as cool
1077
01:00:18.659 --> 01:00:19.300
as you think you are.
1078
01:00:21.179 --> 01:00:25.800
There was a good question, I believe, from James Gamble.
1079
01:00:26.630 --> 01:00:29.369
I see you wrote in there about someone with not
1080
01:00:29.409 --> 01:00:32.860
as much experience as Stan has. So James, do you
1081
01:00:32.889 --> 01:00:34.380
want to, I just unmuted you and we go ahead
1082
01:00:34.400 --> 01:00:34.780
and ask that.
1083
01:00:35.579 --> 01:00:36.119
Yeah.
1084
01:00:36.179 --> 01:00:39.500
Again, as everybody said, thank you for the opportunity. So
1085
01:00:39.639 --> 01:00:41.719
I have a lot of younger managers on my team,
1086
01:00:41.800 --> 01:00:44.000
people that don't have that sort of length.
1087
01:00:43.800 --> 01:00:45.360
Of experience to fall back on.
1088
01:00:45.739 --> 01:00:47.849
You know, in when I'm speaking to my team, I
1089
01:00:47.889 --> 01:00:49.929
rely on all the successes I've had in the past
1090
01:00:50.030 --> 01:00:52.230
in order to communicate to my team on how to
1091
01:00:52.250 --> 01:00:53.610
move forward. And I know I have a lot of
1092
01:00:53.630 --> 01:00:56.510
people that don't have that to rely on. So without that,
1093
01:00:56.710 --> 01:00:58.769
what would you recommend or what are some tips for
1094
01:00:58.809 --> 01:01:01.269
them to be able to encourage them to be able
1095
01:01:01.289 --> 01:01:02.989
to speak up and be able to speak and have
1096
01:01:03.030 --> 01:01:06.070
those deep conversations with their team when they themselves are
1097
01:01:06.090 --> 01:01:08.380
feeling fear and they don't have that experience to rely on?
1098
01:01:09.159 --> 01:01:13.739
Yeah. And as you know, sometimes it also goes with credibility.
1099
01:01:13.780 --> 01:01:16.780
People feel like they don't have credibility because they haven't
1100
01:01:16.860 --> 01:01:19.610
done as much and the team's aware of that. We
1101
01:01:19.630 --> 01:01:22.050
had a really interesting problem on the football game a
1102
01:01:22.230 --> 01:01:25.929
few years ago in that the rising seniors on the
1103
01:01:25.989 --> 01:01:30.070
team were not the best football players. So they had
1104
01:01:30.110 --> 01:01:32.269
to be the leaders in the locker room, but they
1105
01:01:32.309 --> 01:01:36.269
weren't the stars on the team. They were benchwarmers. And
1106
01:01:36.670 --> 01:01:38.909
we talked about it in great detail before the start
1107
01:01:38.949 --> 01:01:40.090
of the season. We say, how are you going to
1108
01:01:40.130 --> 01:01:43.469
handle that? Because are you going to feel confident enough
1109
01:01:44.090 --> 01:01:46.650
to stand up and lead people, even though you're not
1110
01:01:46.969 --> 01:01:50.610
out there scoring touchdowns or whatever? Ultimately they were, but
1111
01:01:50.670 --> 01:01:53.030
it was really a tough, it was a tough journey.
1112
01:01:53.070 --> 01:01:55.309
It's like a young leader who comes in to lead
1113
01:01:55.329 --> 01:01:57.849
a bunch of experienced people and they all sort of
1114
01:01:57.889 --> 01:02:01.329
give that jaundiced eye and they go, the young leader says,
1115
01:02:01.369 --> 01:02:03.550
let's try this. They go, well, we tried that six
1116
01:02:03.570 --> 01:02:07.429
times before. At that time, it takes a young leader,
1117
01:02:07.610 --> 01:02:10.710
I think, one, some courage, and two, it takes a
1118
01:02:10.750 --> 01:02:14.550
support network. It takes peers. It may take one or
1119
01:02:14.570 --> 01:02:17.230
two people in the organization that sort of come to
1120
01:02:17.269 --> 01:02:19.789
and said, hey, that's a good message. It can come
1121
01:02:19.849 --> 01:02:22.710
from their boss, but I actually think it's better if
1122
01:02:22.789 --> 01:02:25.340
it comes laterally in a case like this, because most
1123
01:02:25.360 --> 01:02:27.110
young leaders don't want to go to their boss and
1124
01:02:27.159 --> 01:02:31.719
pour their hearts out about their insecurities. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely.
1125
01:02:31.760 --> 01:02:32.059
Thank you.
1126
01:02:32.099 --> 01:02:32.840
Thank you so much.
1127
01:02:32.900 --> 01:02:33.400
My pleasure.
1128
01:02:33.719 --> 01:02:36.719
So we're going to do one follow-up and then one more.
1129
01:02:36.739 --> 01:02:39.139
I want to go to Matt Spitz, who had a question.
1130
01:02:39.199 --> 01:02:41.840
But Jimmy, a good reminder, Stan, you were beginning to
1131
01:02:41.900 --> 01:02:46.119
talk about Your morning routine and what you're doing now,
1132
01:02:46.619 --> 01:02:49.800
the second part of Tom's question, when the technology broke
1133
01:02:49.880 --> 01:02:52.829
up briefly, can you go back to that answer?
1134
01:02:53.369 --> 01:02:57.309
Yeah, absolutely. My morning routine is always workout, no matter what.
1135
01:02:57.349 --> 01:02:59.949
If I've got to get up at 4 in the morning,
1136
01:02:59.989 --> 01:03:04.719
I work out at 2.30 because I find psychologically it's
1137
01:03:04.760 --> 01:03:06.760
just so much better for me to start the day
1138
01:03:06.840 --> 01:03:10.219
after working out. And so I do that. I alternate
1139
01:03:10.280 --> 01:03:12.239
running one day and then the other day is this
1140
01:03:12.380 --> 01:03:16.340
gym workout I have, which is weightlifting and a lot
1141
01:03:16.360 --> 01:03:18.619
of abs. I really believe in working out on the
1142
01:03:18.679 --> 01:03:22.320
core because that's the rest of the day. And then
1143
01:03:22.400 --> 01:03:25.340
I typically just eat one meal a day in the evening.
1144
01:03:25.360 --> 01:03:27.300
A lot of people would say that's not good for you,
1145
01:03:27.340 --> 01:03:29.559
but I've been doing it for 40 years and it's
1146
01:03:29.599 --> 01:03:32.960
worked just fine. So I'm not going to change suddenly
1147
01:03:33.000 --> 01:03:36.320
at my age. I think the key thing about all
1148
01:03:36.340 --> 01:03:39.940
of this is You can do almost any kind of workout.
1149
01:03:40.019 --> 01:03:42.550
You can do bike, you can do whatever. If you
1150
01:03:42.610 --> 01:03:45.590
are disciplined about it, it is a, you know, we
1151
01:03:45.630 --> 01:03:48.550
all have habits. I've got some bad habits and I've
1152
01:03:48.570 --> 01:03:52.309
got a few good ones. And if those habits become
1153
01:03:52.329 --> 01:03:55.949
ingrained into who you are, they become a source of confidence.
1154
01:03:56.929 --> 01:03:59.570
If you are honorable, if you are honest, if you
1155
01:03:59.639 --> 01:04:03.639
are kind to people, that's a habit. It comes from self-discipline,
1156
01:04:03.880 --> 01:04:06.980
but it's a habit. I fold all my underwear in
1157
01:04:07.019 --> 01:04:10.170
my drawers. Now, people laugh at that. I started doing
1158
01:04:10.190 --> 01:04:12.260
it at West Point. It's a habit. I ain't changing now.
1159
01:04:14.179 --> 01:04:18.659
So I would say that if you are intentional about
1160
01:04:18.800 --> 01:04:21.550
creating some good habits, it will pay off.
1161
01:04:23.869 --> 01:04:24.170
Love it.
1162
01:04:24.510 --> 01:04:25.030
All right, Matt.
1163
01:04:25.190 --> 01:04:25.989
Matt Spitz, go ahead.
1164
01:04:27.610 --> 01:04:30.469
Stan, I just wanted to echo everyone's sentiment and just
1165
01:04:30.489 --> 01:04:32.530
say thank you so much for your service to the
1166
01:04:32.570 --> 01:04:37.219
country and your time with all of us this afternoon.
1167
01:04:38.179 --> 01:04:46.320
My question relates specifically to just the ever-changing world. I mean,
1168
01:04:46.360 --> 01:04:50.190
even down to the minute now, the world is changing
1169
01:04:50.449 --> 01:04:54.829
by the minute as we work through combating the virus
1170
01:04:55.369 --> 01:05:03.309
and And so my question to you specifically is, are
1171
01:05:03.349 --> 01:05:06.550
there things in your life that don't change, that don't
1172
01:05:06.630 --> 01:05:14.210
ever change in the midst of leading 150,000 plus people
1173
01:05:14.449 --> 01:05:18.070
to navigating your own business today? What are the things
1174
01:05:18.250 --> 01:05:20.489
in your life that never change or don't change?
1175
01:05:21.210 --> 01:05:24.130
No, that that's really good, Matt, because you're right. Everything
1176
01:05:24.190 --> 01:05:26.780
is changing. And on that side of your life and
1177
01:05:26.800 --> 01:05:30.360
your personality, I think it's best if you just embrace that.
1178
01:05:30.920 --> 01:05:32.619
Say this is good because I was bored with what
1179
01:05:32.639 --> 01:05:36.659
we were doing yesterday. So we won't do that anymore. Yeah,
1180
01:05:36.760 --> 01:05:38.420
I do have some things in my life. And one
1181
01:05:38.440 --> 01:05:40.980
of them we just talked about working out for me
1182
01:05:41.039 --> 01:05:44.980
is a constant. You know, I'm 65 years old. I
1183
01:05:45.019 --> 01:05:47.159
weigh exactly what I weighed the day I went to
1184
01:05:47.199 --> 01:05:49.500
West Point as an 18 year or 17 year old kid.
1185
01:05:51.809 --> 01:05:57.489
And so that discipline gives me a sense of consistency.
1186
01:05:57.510 --> 01:06:01.510
It gives me a sense of confidence. It is one
1187
01:06:01.530 --> 01:06:05.389
of those sort of unchanging things. I've been married 45
1188
01:06:05.389 --> 01:06:10.730
years and my wife and I are extraordinarily close. And that's,
1189
01:06:10.869 --> 01:06:12.840
I mean, it takes a lot of work to stay married.
1190
01:06:13.280 --> 01:06:16.440
You know, no marriage is easy. But that's one of
1191
01:06:16.480 --> 01:06:20.900
those things that we both, we talk about this a lot.
1192
01:06:21.480 --> 01:06:24.719
it is one of the things of consistency we count on.
1193
01:06:25.380 --> 01:06:29.070
We wouldn't let this marriage fail because that sense of
1194
01:06:29.909 --> 01:06:33.269
foundation is too important to each of us. And so
1195
01:06:33.929 --> 01:06:36.389
that's really important. And then the last one I'd say
1196
01:06:36.469 --> 01:06:40.329
is relationships. Some of my friendships, some of them aren't
1197
01:06:40.429 --> 01:06:43.449
as old as the years I've been married or whatever,
1198
01:06:43.510 --> 01:06:46.969
but you establish those relationships and you try to make
1199
01:06:47.030 --> 01:06:50.860
them such that you know you'll be friends to the
1200
01:06:50.920 --> 01:06:53.760
day you die. I've got some people I work with
1201
01:06:54.300 --> 01:07:00.019
that we just have a relationship that we know is
1202
01:07:00.059 --> 01:07:04.340
there forever, no matter what happens. Sky falls in. If
1203
01:07:04.409 --> 01:07:06.889
both of us are still alive, we're going to be friends.
1204
01:07:07.829 --> 01:07:13.469
And that's, again, that's something you nurture. It doesn't just stay.
1205
01:07:13.489 --> 01:07:16.789
You have to maintain it. But it's worth it because
1206
01:07:16.829 --> 01:07:20.230
when everything else goes to shit, it's great to be
1207
01:07:20.269 --> 01:07:22.949
able to say, yeah, but I got this and this
1208
01:07:23.010 --> 01:07:25.210
that I hold on to. Yeah.
1209
01:07:25.789 --> 01:07:26.090
Love it.
1210
01:07:26.170 --> 01:07:26.550
Thank you.
1211
01:07:27.210 --> 01:07:30.380
Stan, I noticed I got to witness kind of both
1212
01:07:30.400 --> 01:07:32.780
the relationship with your wife as well as with Chris
1213
01:07:32.980 --> 01:07:36.780
Fussell in Gettysburg. And I feel like Chris has got
1214
01:07:36.800 --> 01:07:39.639
to be one of those guys for you. What's that
1215
01:07:39.679 --> 01:07:41.360
relationship like between the two of you?
1216
01:07:42.099 --> 01:07:46.260
Well, we've been through an awful lot. We met in 2000. Well,
1217
01:07:46.280 --> 01:07:49.079
we first met about 2005, I think, when he was
1218
01:07:49.139 --> 01:07:52.150
an ops officer. And then we worked together when he
1219
01:07:52.190 --> 01:07:56.610
was made to camp 2007. And it was a very
1220
01:07:56.670 --> 01:07:59.969
difficult time of the war. And we built a relationship
1221
01:08:00.530 --> 01:08:02.849
at that point. And now we've been at this company
1222
01:08:02.889 --> 01:08:05.400
for 10 years together. You know, we've been building this
1223
01:08:05.440 --> 01:08:08.980
company for 10 years together. And so it starts with respect.
1224
01:08:09.119 --> 01:08:11.360
I don't know I could be close to somebody I
1225
01:08:11.429 --> 01:08:15.869
didn't respect. It's good that someone like Chris, I admire.
1226
01:08:16.090 --> 01:08:19.750
I admire him deeply. But if I didn't respect their values,
1227
01:08:19.810 --> 01:08:21.569
if I didn't respect what they were doing, I think
1228
01:08:21.590 --> 01:08:24.229
it would be difficult to go around that. Of course,
1229
01:08:24.810 --> 01:08:28.640
with Chris, it's the opposite. And we've also now got
1230
01:08:28.680 --> 01:08:32.739
a lot of shared challenges. And you build, just like
1231
01:08:32.779 --> 01:08:36.659
in a marriage, you build up emotional connections through the
1232
01:08:36.729 --> 01:08:38.430
times you went through that weren't that easy.
1233
01:08:39.430 --> 01:08:41.289
Yeah. Yeah.
1234
01:08:41.390 --> 01:08:44.310
Well, Stan, I have to say, man, I'm just so
1235
01:08:44.329 --> 01:08:47.369
appreciative of your time investment here, you know, an hour
1236
01:08:47.390 --> 01:08:50.710
and 12 minutes of sharing your wisdom. I know there's
1237
01:08:50.729 --> 01:08:53.369
a lot of people pulling your way, including all the
1238
01:08:53.369 --> 01:08:56.890
90 plus people that work at the McChrystal Group. And
1239
01:08:56.930 --> 01:08:59.909
certainly I want to do everything I can to support
1240
01:09:00.020 --> 01:09:02.319
or shine a light on the incredible work you're doing.
1241
01:09:03.140 --> 01:09:07.380
Where could anyone who's watching or listening go to, in
1242
01:09:07.420 --> 01:09:11.000
addition to go to Amazon, search Stan McChrystal and buy
1243
01:09:11.340 --> 01:09:13.819
every book he's written? I highly, highly recommend it. But
1244
01:09:13.840 --> 01:09:15.600
where else would you send people to learn more about
1245
01:09:15.640 --> 01:09:16.060
you online?
1246
01:09:16.579 --> 01:09:20.319
Yeah, the thing we're doing right now, it's McChrystalGroup.com. One
1247
01:09:20.359 --> 01:09:23.560
word there. But the key thing that we are doing
1248
01:09:23.619 --> 01:09:27.439
is we are helping firms deal with this uncertainty now.
1249
01:09:27.500 --> 01:09:29.399
The fact that they've got to go to remote work.
1250
01:09:29.979 --> 01:09:32.689
We did it. We have all the scar tissue and
1251
01:09:32.699 --> 01:09:34.989
the lessons to know an awful lot about it. And
1252
01:09:35.010 --> 01:09:36.850
we're trying to help, but we are helping a number
1253
01:09:36.909 --> 01:09:39.409
of clients do that. So for those of you who
1254
01:09:39.550 --> 01:09:42.989
are trying something you've never done before, and you're wondering,
1255
01:09:43.670 --> 01:09:46.439
why is this harder than I thought it would be?
1256
01:09:46.539 --> 01:09:49.399
Or what are some tips? We've got an awful lot
1257
01:09:49.420 --> 01:09:51.840
of those. And so I would offer, we put out
1258
01:09:51.899 --> 01:09:55.380
some documents recently. And if you go to mccrystalgroup.com, you
1259
01:09:55.420 --> 01:09:57.760
can download those documents. And I think a number of
1260
01:09:57.779 --> 01:09:58.859
them will be of help.
1261
01:10:00.340 --> 01:10:02.100
Love it. Stan, thanks again.
1262
01:10:02.119 --> 01:10:05.199
And for those of you who are maybe checking this
1263
01:10:05.260 --> 01:10:08.819
out for the first time because of Stan, thank you
1264
01:10:08.859 --> 01:10:11.979
for being here. I record the Learning Leader Show and
1265
01:10:12.020 --> 01:10:14.859
publish usually at least once a week on Sunday nights.
1266
01:10:15.789 --> 01:10:17.409
And it's my favorite thing in the world to do
1267
01:10:17.449 --> 01:10:21.409
to have long form conversations. Certainly when it's somebody to
1268
01:10:21.430 --> 01:10:25.090
the caliber of Stanley McChrystal, it's just blows my mind.
1269
01:10:25.109 --> 01:10:27.300
So thank you for being here. Thanks, Stan, for being here.
1270
01:10:27.310 --> 01:10:29.300
I put some things I'm sharing my screen that you
1271
01:10:29.319 --> 01:10:31.600
can see if you want to, if you're not already
1272
01:10:31.960 --> 01:10:36.720
engaged with what I do, you can text learners to
1273
01:10:36.720 --> 01:10:38.979
44222 or even email me directly. I really appreciate you
1274
01:10:39.020 --> 01:10:41.579
being here, investing your time, everybody, because this.
1275
01:10:41.520 --> 01:10:43.100
Is really cool. And I want to do more of them.
1276
01:10:43.500 --> 01:10:46.689
Again, I know I messed up by starting with the
1277
01:10:46.729 --> 01:10:49.569
best guest. I should have probably ramped up to this.
1278
01:10:49.609 --> 01:10:51.199
But when Stan said yes, I was not going to
1279
01:10:51.239 --> 01:10:53.699
pass it up. So thanks again, Stan, for being here.
1280
01:10:53.739 --> 01:10:55.939
Thank you all for being here. This was a lot
1281
01:10:55.960 --> 01:10:58.420
of fun and I'm looking forward to the next one.
1282
01:10:58.960 --> 01:11:00.640
My honor, everybody. Thank you.
1283
01:11:00.899 --> 01:11:01.520
Thank you, Stan.
1284
01:11:02.060 --> 01:11:02.560
Take care.
1285
01:11:02.579 --> 01:11:02.859
All right.
1286
01:11:03.140 --> 01:11:03.359
Bye.
1287
01:11:05.260 --> 01:11:10.869
What an experience to speak with General Stanley McChrystal, especially
1288
01:11:10.909 --> 01:11:14.890
with a live virtual audience. more than 250 people from
1289
01:11:14.949 --> 01:11:17.850
around the world. It's great to see your smiling faces.
1290
01:11:17.890 --> 01:11:20.029
I'd love to do more of those in the future.
1291
01:11:20.670 --> 01:11:23.619
If that's something that you're interested in, email me. Let
1292
01:11:23.659 --> 01:11:26.220
me know, ryan at learningleader.com. I'd love to hear from
1293
01:11:26.260 --> 01:11:29.439
you if you enjoyed that. I certainly did, and Stan
1294
01:11:29.479 --> 01:11:34.199
is such a kind, gracious, thoughtful, intelligent leader. He gave
1295
01:11:34.350 --> 01:11:36.630
so much. A few of the parts that really stuck out,
1296
01:11:37.130 --> 01:11:42.289
navigate from where you are, not where you wish you were. Basically,
1297
01:11:42.840 --> 01:11:47.279
Let's think about what's within our control and focus on that.
1298
01:11:47.979 --> 01:11:50.760
When Stan was talking about his daily routine, it really
1299
01:11:50.859 --> 01:11:56.520
spoke to me. Discipline gives consistency and confidence. Waking up
1300
01:11:56.750 --> 01:11:59.689
every day, starting it with a workout. That's how I
1301
01:11:59.789 --> 01:12:04.350
operate as well. It's been very helpful, especially getting used
1302
01:12:04.369 --> 01:12:07.510
to the new normal that we find ourselves in. That
1303
01:12:07.609 --> 01:12:11.060
discipline certainly for me creates consistency and confidence as well,
1304
01:12:11.100 --> 01:12:14.899
just as Stan said. Then think about your say-do gap.
1305
01:12:15.779 --> 01:12:19.880
The most excellent leaders do not have a gap. What
1306
01:12:19.920 --> 01:12:22.619
they say is what they do. They have high integrity,
1307
01:12:22.640 --> 01:12:24.550
and that's something that Stan talked about. And then I
1308
01:12:24.590 --> 01:12:27.510
brought up A quote from my friend James Clear when
1309
01:12:27.529 --> 01:12:31.170
it comes to patience. The most useful form of patience
1310
01:12:31.670 --> 01:12:36.229
is persistence. Patience implies waiting for things to improve on
1311
01:12:36.250 --> 01:12:41.310
their own. Persistence implies keeping your head down and continuing
1312
01:12:41.350 --> 01:12:45.670
to work when things take longer than you expect. That's
1313
01:12:45.689 --> 01:12:47.710
what I'm talking about. I hope you enjoyed this one
1314
01:12:47.750 --> 01:12:49.250
as much as I did. If so, I'd love it
1315
01:12:49.270 --> 01:12:51.489
if you would spread the word. Tell a friend or two.
1316
01:12:52.390 --> 01:12:56.270
This episode with the great General Stanley McChrystal is a great.
1317
01:12:56.109 --> 01:12:56.890
Place to start.
1318
01:12:57.250 --> 01:13:00.479
Because you continue to do that, it gives me the
1319
01:13:00.560 --> 01:13:02.539
opportunity to do what I love on a daily basis.
1320
01:13:02.579 --> 01:13:06.600
And for that, I will forever be grateful. Thank you
1321
01:13:06.680 --> 01:13:07.100
so much.
1322
01:13:07.180 --> 01:13:07.760
Talk with you soon.
1323
01:13:08.000 --> 01:13:08.260
Can't wait.