129: Duncan MacPherson | Top 50 Most Innovative Voices in Advisor Growth Series

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I talk to advisors all the time.
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They get 10 referrals, one's an ideal client.
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12 months later, they get 17 introductions, 12 perfect clients.
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Nowhere did they all of a sudden become better financial advisors.
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They just demystified their value.
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They removed the mystery, rejuvenated, and reframed how they were perceived.
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There's a big difference between an endorsement and an introduction.
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It's about a five to one ratio.
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If you got 10 actual introductions, you were probably talked about 50 times, where the client just basically sort of, oh yeah, you got to talk to Gabe.
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He's a great guy.
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Here's his number.
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And the endorsement went to the head of the friend to die.
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Every advisor has received this question from a client.
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Did my friend ever call you?
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Because I was talking to a friend and I told him to call you.
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Did he call you?
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Close the gap from endorsement to introduction by reframing and reintroducing yourself to rejuvenate how they perceive you and how they describe you.
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If this is positioned instead of pitched, we don't ask for referrals.
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We talk about the concept of an introduction, but we don't pitch it as a favor we're asking of someone.
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We position it as a service we're providing for someone.
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That's interpreted differently.
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If you're already referral and close the gap from endorsement to introduction.
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Welcome back to the top 50 most innovative voices in advisor growth.
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I'm your host, Paul G.
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McManus.
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This episode is a little different.
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My brother and colleague, Gabe McManus, is stepping in to lead today's conversation with Duncan McPherson, founder and CEO of Pareto Systems and author of the Advisor Playbook.
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For decades, Duncan has helped financial professionals build businesses that are more scalable, more systematic, and ultimately more aligned with the life they actually want to live.
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In their conversation, Gabe and Duncan explore one of Duncan's core beliefs.
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Your business should serve your life, not the other way around.
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They discuss why advisors need to move from simply owning a book of business to building a real business with processes, intellectual property, and a client experience that can operate beyond the founder.
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They also dig into how advisors can decommoditize their value, become more intentional about the clients they serve, and turn great client relationships into advocacy and introductions.
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Duncan also shares why writing a book can sharpen your thinking and become a bridge for referrals, and how AI can create more capacity for advisors without replacing the human connection clients still value.
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Before we jump in, be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel or wherever you're listening so you don't miss a new episode of the top 50 most innovative voices in advisor growth.
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And now, here's Gabe McManus with Duncan McPherson.
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Duncan, welcome to the podcast.
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How are you today?
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Good, Gabe, how are you?
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Good.
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I'm glad that you joined.
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Duncan, to start off, I wanted to ask you, could you tell me about your background and what led you to where you are today?
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Okay, so somewhat accidental.
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I guess it's going back now over 30 years ago.
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I had a different business.
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I had a marketing company and a good chunk of our clients were financial advisors.
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And I remember a friend of mine saying, he said, Hey, look, if you want to make any real money, get into the business of money because that's where it all is.
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Yes.
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I thought, wow, that's pretty profound.
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And because I had a bit of a marketing background, I started giving some of my clients on the other side some insights on client acquisition and business development.
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And it got results.
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My phone started ringing.
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I still had sort of one foot on the boat, one foot on the dock because I was back and forth between these two businesses.
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Right.
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But the breakthrough for me came when I realized that, you know, the enlightened advisor, our ideal client, yes, wasn't just fixated on the quantitative results.
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It was also the qualitative.
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When advisors started acknowledging that their not only is their business running more smoothly, but their life was running more smoothly, relationships at home, health and wellness, and other elements, I started to realize there was something very fulfilling here.
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Yeah.
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And that's where it shifted, where this I said, okay, this is the path I'm going to go down.
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So I wanted to reset you back up with that question because I think that's so interesting, Duncan.
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Was that often the case that as you were working with financial advisors, as they were beginning to grow, they were finding that their work-life balance was getting out of whack and they didn't have enough time for their life and things were just turned upside down.
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Well, Gabe, balance is the operative word there.
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And you know the old saying that the best way to learn something is to teach it?
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I mean, every interaction I'd have with these advisors, not only would I get something from it because they would share with me what's going on in their lives, but I got to hear what I was talking about and what they were talking about.
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And it started to really sink in for me that the business is supposed to serve your life, not the other way around.
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Right.
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I made the observation that many very moral, high-caliber financial advisors, they would give so much of themselves to their team and their clients, literally to the point where it was starting to come at their own expense.
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Collateral damage, unintended consequences.
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Yeah.
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And, you know, it just occurred to me that you can't pour from an empty cup.
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You know, an enlightened financial advisor, their success doesn't come at the expense of somebody else, but the success of the client and the team can't come at the advisor's expense either.
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So there's a balance there.
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And that's candidly where this role that I play became incredibly fulfilling.
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I gotta tell you, I had a conversation with an advisor, very substantial, literally just before this conversation.
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We started working together about 15 years ago.
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It was like a group hug.
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He achieves several breakthroughs, including a really substantial breakthrough.
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And I mean, he did all the work, but I gave him a little bit of guidance and navigation, but he gave it all to me.
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I'm just like, this is I get paid to do this, and it doesn't even feel like work.
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So anyway, I'm getting a little sentimental on you, but yeah, it's very rewarding for sure.
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Yeah.
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Can you tell me what some of that collateral damage could look like, Duncan?
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And then as in that particular case, as he moved away from some of that, what was changing?
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What did his life and his practice look like at that point?
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Well, as you know, things tend to happen gradually and then suddenly, like drifting into a point of poor health, it's not always an a lightning strike that comes out of nowhere, it's a bit of neglect that compounds.
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Yeah.
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And then all of a sudden, something happens.
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Or a relationship.
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You know, the old saying, you're only as happy as your least happy child.
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You know, when when advisors would really bear their souls to me about the things that are going on in their lives, and I'm like, okay, it's an honor that you would let me in, but let's address this.
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Let's not just talk about your AUM and your production and your client acquisition.
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Let's talk about regrouping and recentering.
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And those are very, very meaningful.
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And I'm not saying it's everybody, but there's another old saying, we we are what we lack.
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And if we're lacking something that's important, it will manifest even subconsciously.
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So I just want advisors to land in that sweet spot where their business is chugging along beautifully and they pinch themselves because they're just overflowing with gratitude.
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Yeah, I like that.
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Duncan, can you tell me how the blue square method works to help them achieve that?
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Well, I'm sure you and a lot of people listening read the book Good to Great by Jim Collins.
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Yes.
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Essential reading.
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Had a profound impact on me.
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And that hedgehog, you know, those questions to self-assess if you're in the right place, that lit a fire.
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And the blue square is a bullseye within a four-circle Venn diagram that is called an ikigai.
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And that's a fascinating study.
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Ikigai is a Japanese premise and basically means our reason for being.
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And it's just like true north, okay?
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Like, am I headed in this direction quantitatively and qualitatively in my life?
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And then I would bookend that ikigai with another Japanese premise called Kinsugi.
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And Kinsugi is the art of repairing broken pottery with glue that has gold in it.
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And I've got a couple of pieces, they're beautiful, but they're also incredibly symbolic in that the finished product is actually more valuable than the original.
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And not just because of the gold, but because of what it represents.
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And I say to a lot of advisors, like, there's nothing broken in your life or in your business, but let's, in the spirit of plateau avoidance and in the spirit of self-actualization and becoming who you're meant to become, let's break the status quo.
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And the Blue Square method, it doesn't talk about dramatic wholesale changes.
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Yeah, we are we're all familiar with the premise that you know you're not trying to refine one thing by 10%, you're trying to refine 10 things by 1%.
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Yes.
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So that is in essence from a business development and a professional development and a personal development standpoint.
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That's that's what the Blue Square method is is designed to do.
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I'm curious when you talk about true north and having a good understanding of where you're headed and how to get there.
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Duncan, when people meet you and they're talking to you, how often do they have that clear vision and how much work is needed to really paint the picture of where they want to go and what needs to be done?
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Yeah, great question.
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And the type of advisors we attract as a fiduciary, their moral compass, I mean, true north for them is just taking care of their clients and the the whole mindset that I would never ask a client to do something I wouldn't do myself.
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You know, that that's who we tend to be aligned with.
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And so, in terms of the bigger picture, zooming out in terms of their own bullseye or true north, it's it's generally collaborative, a couple of questions, strategic planning, scenario planning, and then it comes out.
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And it's it's interesting, not to get too far into the weeds here with you, Gabe, but I have the sequence of questions.
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Many issues are two or three questions deep.
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The first question I'll say to an advisor is you know, what does nirvana look like for you in the next five years?
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I mean, if it all falls out of the sky into your lap beautifully, panoramically, just paint me that picture.
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Yeah.
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And so that's a bit of an exchange, but then I kind of pick at a little bit and I ask them, it's like a W5.
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And one of the five W's is, you know, why is all of that so important to you?
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Because as you would know, the the purest form of energy in coaching and being an accountability partner is when the why is clear, the how pretty much takes care of itself.
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So if you can pull out the why and make it their idea from a self-motivation perspective, and then just lay out a game plan for how to move in that direction.
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Right.
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And and then go one level deeper as I think about this.
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You know, one of the W questions is who do you need to become to make all of this a reality?
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And that becomes a very interesting exchange.
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And then, you know, because of the advent of Zoom and capturing all these consultations and then outputs in the form of AI summaries, it galvanizes the track and the motivation.
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Then it's our job to make sure they don't drift, just keep them on track.
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So that's how things sort of come together.
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I'd love to know, Duncan, when you ask them to think about what a nirvana looks like for them, what types of things do you hear back?
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Still to this day, my favorite, and I'm not going to name names, yeah.
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Uh, but I've got a client very substantial, and his nirvana was 40 and 40.
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Hmm.
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He wanted a business that would generate 40 million dollars in revenue, pretty meaningful.
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Very meaningful.
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But at the same time, he wanted to uh enter 40 races with his race car around the United States, and uh he's done both.
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That's fair.
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Pick both boxes, and that was his nirvana.
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And you know, it's funny, Gabe.
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Sometimes when people tell me they're nirvana, yeah, I don't even know if they necessarily believe it, but it's like, okay, let's put this carrot out there and see what happens.
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Yeah.
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And through hard work and manifestation and you know, the ethical purity of their intention, sometimes they're surprised.
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It it happens sooner and sometimes bigger.
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Pretty cool.
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I love in that example that it's the business growth, but then it's the personal goals and growth, the things you want to accomplish that are going to make it all worthwhile, all the hard work, all the effort, so you can achieve the things that you're dreaming about.
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Well, it's interesting.
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I mean, it's funny.
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Sometimes if the business is running you, then when you're at your desk, you can be thinking about, I need to get to Maui.
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Yeah.
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And then when you get to Maui, you're thinking, I need to get back to my desk.
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Oh no, it's a vicious.
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You're kind of in this no man's land, right?
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And if you're running the business, then you can actually enjoy the presence and productivity of the business and then detach and go live your life.
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And both are aspirational.
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The advisor I talked to just earlier today, he went through this exercise of growing down, zooming out, and leveling up.
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That's sort of the frame we gave it.
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And so he's at a stage in his life now where it's not a job, it's not work.
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He loves it.
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And he said to me, he goes, you know, I took a day off just to do nothing, and I didn't play golf, and I just stayed at home and I was gonna do some reading and stuff.
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And he said, I was miserable.
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I just wanted to get back to the office.
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And I go, could you have said that 10 years ago?
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You probably wanted to get out of the office.
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Like it's just a very interesting relationship there.
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I feel like that's something that we should all aspire to, where the work that we do is so meaningful and enjoyable that we're not looking to get away from it or retire from it, that we've built something that we want to do every single day because it's exactly where we want to be.
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Well, here's the entrepreneurial paradox is to make yourself obsolete.
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Yes.
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Right?
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So your business can run like a Swiss watch without you being there.
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You you don't need to be present for it to be productive.
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And if you do buy into the mantra of begin with the end in mind, every business is built to be sold.
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If you'll engineer a progression where you have depersonalized the business, so it's not, you know, the Gabe show or the Duncan show or whatever.
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Right.
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And if you don't crave to be needed, like you just liberate yourself and empower your team and follow process and all of these things, it happens.
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And then you you shift from I'm work optional, I don't have to do this, I get to do this.
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I think in the history of humanity, I don't know how many generations have been able to even conceptualize, let alone actualize that.
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The fact that in this era we could actually get there, what an absolute privilege.
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I think that's incredible.
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And I saw that you call this decommoditizing your value.
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Duncan, how difficult is that?
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I work with advisors every single day that are in the process.
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They'd like to turn things over to the team.
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They want to start moving people over and be the rainmaker that's running the marketing and the sales, but letting the team take over.
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What are the challenges that get in the way of that process?
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Oh, that's that's a very significant question and point.
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I mean, I think number one, and maybe not even number one, but just as it occurs to me, understanding the shift that has occurred is that your technical ability and how you manage money is one number in the combination.
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And if you're gonna solely live and die by that sword, you're painting yourself into a commoditized corner.
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You're on a collision course with some serious friction and maybe even worse, obsolescence, whatever the case may be.
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Right.
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It's the advisors who understood and understand that I don't just manage money, I manage a business and I manage people.
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Like it's no longer a book of business, it's a business.
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So the advisors that dial all three of those numbers into the combination, they will decommoditize themselves.
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I gotta tell you, I I I've got a good friend.
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He shared this story with me.
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His uh mother, widowed, quite affluent.
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She happened to say to my friend, she said, Boy, I love my financial advisor.
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And my friend said, Why?
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And she went off on all this sort of soft qualitative stuff.
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Oh, he cares and you know, this, that, and the other thing.
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Yeah.
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And so my friend said, Oh, that's that's nice.
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I'm glad you feel that way.
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What does he have you invested in?
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I don't know.
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What's what was your rate of return last year?
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I I don't know.
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Now, obviously, that's not representative of every affluent client, right?
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But it is validating that having a sense of belonging, being in good hands and safe harbor and the bedside manner, the relationship management, that contributes to fee-worthiness.
00:16:58.879 --> 00:17:34.079
The other thing I'll say, as it occurs to me, is the shift in mindset from advisors who are thinking about client acquisition, shifting from who am I looking for to who am I suited for, and being absolutely unwavering about their ideal client profile and only striving to attract the clients that are a good fit, where there's an alignment of interest where the the asset and the need compatibility is there, the the chemistry and the you know the the relationship compatibility is there, like just establishing a good fit and being ardently steadfast on.
00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:38.000
I'm not trying to be all things to all people, I'm all things to some people.
00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:54.000
That's huge because the attitudinal qualities of the ideal client, you know, they're they're delegators, they're enlightened, yeah, they're they're nice people, they focus on what you're worth, not what you cost, and they don't micromanage and all these other qualities that helps to decommoditize an advisor.
00:17:54.160 --> 00:17:59.119
And then I think the last thing, and I'll I'll turn it back to you, is never negotiating your value.
00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:00.240
Like it's so tempting.
00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:04.799
A financial advisor will get introduced to a massive prospective client.
00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:14.160
And the prospective client will walk in with a bit of swagger and a high opinion of themselves, and they'll they've literally been talking to this advisor for seven minutes.
00:18:14.319 --> 00:18:16.880
And the prospective client says, Hey, you know what?
00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:18.079
I've heard good things about you.
00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:19.440
I'm leaving my current advisor.
00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:20.319
I've met two others.
00:18:20.559 --> 00:18:22.960
They both agreed to lower their fees to get my business.
00:18:23.119 --> 00:18:29.039
And I would say the best thing to say to that prospective client is, hey, I respect for where you're coming from.
00:18:29.119 --> 00:18:36.880
We all want to be shrewd in terms of how we invest our money, but uh, you need to know something is I don't negotiate my value to try to win business.
00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:38.480
That's not how I roll.
00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:38.720
Yeah.
00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:40.799
Uh some do that, but I don't do that.
00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:43.359
I focus on the lifetime value of the relationship.
00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:48.160
And if that's ultimately what's completely important to you, it's probably not a good fit.
00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:48.640
Yeah.
00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:54.880
And, you know, that is huge because how you start a relationship has a profound impact in terms of how it's going to unfold.
00:18:55.039 --> 00:19:04.960
So these are all contributing to decommoditizing your value, making sure clients focus on why you're compensated, not how much you're compensated.
00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:05.279
Yeah.
00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:12.880
And when they understand that they don't have to micromanage or, you know, you liberate them to go live their lives, that to me is ideal.
00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:13.279
Yeah.
00:19:13.359 --> 00:19:25.759
And Duncan, I agree with you completely that it's important for advisors to really focus in on who is their ideal fit client and to niche down to make sure that they are being very specific in the way that they reach out.
00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:28.480
But what are the ways that you see working the best?
00:19:28.640 --> 00:19:32.720
Now, once they identify that, and then they say, okay, how do I get the word out?
00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:37.440
How do I get my visibility built where they're attracted back to me and my practice?
00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:41.200
What do you see that works for them to begin to do at that point?
00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:42.240
You know, it's funny.
00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:50.720
I had a client recently say, and he's just recently joined this firm, this new firm, but he went to a conference that they held.
00:19:50.960 --> 00:19:55.920
And he's a significant student and adopter of our philosophy and our process.
00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:08.319
And he goes to this conference with this firm, and they spend all this time bringing in all these gurus who are talking about marketing and client acquisition, search engine optimization and target marketing and things like that.
00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:13.119
And he effectively just said, you know, I think the best thing you can do is just call your clients.
00:20:13.279 --> 00:20:21.359
And the whole premise there is before you go out and try to convince somebody new to become a client, work really well with the people who are already convinced.
00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:24.160
Show them how to convince people on your behalf.
00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:27.039
Their persuasive impact is so much better.
00:20:27.200 --> 00:20:36.240
And there is nothing better than getting to a point where all of your new clients are acquired through introduction because they are the most predisposed.
00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:40.640
It was a friend, an advocate that made the introduction.
00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:43.599
It's already warm and predisposed.
00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:53.839
And if you just will validate what the friend, the advocate said, Yeah, you are fast tracking that new relationship to becoming an advocate themselves because they've been through the experience.
00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:59.440
Who better to articulate the whole premise of advocacy than somebody who's gone through it?
00:20:59.599 --> 00:20:59.839
Yeah.
00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:07.920
So it's maybe not conducive to instant gratification, that approach, but marketing is what you say, branding is what they hear.
00:21:08.079 --> 00:21:20.240
Having a solid branding strategy that focuses on competitor-proofing relationships, getting out in front of their evolving needs, and creating advocates, that is the best form of business development.
00:21:20.480 --> 00:21:21.119
I love that.
00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:25.599
And the creating those advocates, especially from the people that you're serving already.
00:21:25.839 --> 00:21:28.400
Duncan, tell me what role a book could play in that.
00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:30.559
Because I see your book right in front of you.
00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:33.359
Have you utilized that in your own practice?
00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:39.279
And where when you have your best clients that love you already, how do they share the message and the word about you?
00:21:39.359 --> 00:21:40.559
And do they use your book?
00:21:40.960 --> 00:21:41.759
That's a great point.
00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:46.400
Yeah, and just backing up, like Chris Jepson, who is a legend in this business.
00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:46.720
Yeah.
00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:48.559
He and I co wrote these books.
00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:59.759
And the beauty about the exercise of writing a book is the, especially with a co author, is the it forces you to get into this collaborative exchange to reflect.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:02.160
Define and optimize the messaging.
00:22:02.319 --> 00:22:02.720
Yes.
00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:04.319
What a great exercise.
00:22:04.559 --> 00:22:10.640
Even if we were the only ones to have read these books, it would have been a great exercise.
00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:11.759
It's still worthwhile.
00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:12.400
Yes, 100%.
00:22:12.880 --> 00:22:13.039
Yes.
00:22:13.519 --> 00:22:16.880
We're better at what we do because we wrote these books.
00:22:17.119 --> 00:22:25.519
Now, to answer your question, the credibility that comes from having a book, thought leadership, reputational equity, all of that, yeah, of course it hurts.
00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:26.960
It definitely helps.
00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:27.519
Yes.
00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:31.599
But it also doesn't hurt that this is a bridge for introductions.
00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:32.160
Right.
00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:47.599
You know, if you think about permission marketing and using content, you know, if an advocate of ours is talking to another advisor and the other advisor gives that person permission to talk about us, the best thing they can say is, hey, go download their book.
00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:49.200
Or better yet, here's a copy.
00:22:49.279 --> 00:22:49.920
Here's my copy.
00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:53.759
And look how dog eared it is with all these post-it notes and highlights.
00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:56.880
It's a bridge to make introductions for sure.
00:22:57.119 --> 00:23:00.960
So yeah, it's been it's been invaluable, but also a great exercise.
00:23:01.039 --> 00:23:05.599
And I don't mind telling you that it added a bit of credibility in my relationship with my wife.
00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:06.720
Tell me how.
00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:08.799
What did she think after you wrote it?
00:23:09.039 --> 00:23:12.400
I mean, she back in the early days, it's like, I don't even know what you do.
00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:14.400
And somebody would ask her, what does he do?
00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:14.880
I don't know.
00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:15.200
Right.
00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:17.759
He's paid to talk, which is shocking.
00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:26.480
And then, you know, what happened was actually, as I think about this, a really interesting the first time it happened was we were traveling somewhere.
00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:33.039
I think we were in Vancouver and we were at a restaurant, and advisor comes up to me and says, Are you Duncan McPherson?
00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:36.079
And my wife's like, Oh, here we go, here we go.
00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:39.279
And it was literally organic where I was recognized.
00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:43.599
And from that, she calls me a micro-niche celebrity.
00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:45.039
Micro-niche celebrity.
00:23:46.160 --> 00:23:46.400
Yeah.
00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:48.160
So it's been very, very fun.
00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:51.279
She also calls me the smartest kid in summer school, right?
00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:53.359
Which I think there's a compliment in there somewhere.
00:23:53.440 --> 00:23:56.240
But uh no, it's been very, very good.
00:23:56.319 --> 00:24:02.880
And you know, my kids now that they're actual people and full on adults, they they like the fact that we've got a couple of these books too.
00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:05.920
So many, many benefits to getting your thoughts on paper.
00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:08.240
I'm glad that you say that that might be coming.
00:24:08.319 --> 00:24:09.680
My kids with my book, Duncan.
00:24:09.759 --> 00:24:14.880
They haven't quite gotten there yet, but I'm hopeful, you know, at some point they'll look at the book and say, my dad's an author.
00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:15.759
So definitely.
00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:31.920
Yeah, I wanted to ask you because I really like that you said I feel the same way that every advisor that I work with to write a book says that the process is clarifying because we're talking about their best ideas from the practice and the way that they lay out the flow, exactly the way that they would present it to clients.
00:24:32.079 --> 00:24:34.000
Now, when they read it, it builds trust.
00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:38.480
And you were talking about building a business by design, not by chance.
00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:46.319
I'm thinking about the way that a book can play into that, but tell me about why that's important, a design instead of by chance, and why you don't want to improv this.
00:24:46.400 --> 00:24:49.119
You really want to have the clear direction to go.
00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:55.599
Well, the first thing I will just come back to is again, the mindset is it's not a book of business.
00:24:55.680 --> 00:24:56.480
It's a business.
00:24:56.640 --> 00:24:56.960
Yeah.
00:24:57.119 --> 00:24:59.519
So that's sort of a jumping off point.
00:24:59.680 --> 00:25:04.000
Then you jump way out ahead and say, okay, every business is built to be sold.
00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:05.759
So begin with that end in mind.
00:25:05.920 --> 00:25:06.160
Yeah.
00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:15.119
And every investment of effort you make working on your business culminates in the consistency, efficiency, and the exit value.
00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:21.599
I mean, we're seeing advisors now 8x, 10x, 15x with the kicker lift on the end.
00:25:21.759 --> 00:25:22.960
It's just baffling.
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:23.599
Yeah.
00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:26.559
But as they say, look, we've cracked the code.
00:25:26.799 --> 00:25:31.119
Now, now to get granular, this is this to me is profound.
00:25:31.359 --> 00:25:34.559
And not because we talk about it, I see it.
00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:37.200
Is when the advisor makes a shift.
00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:41.039
They acknowledge, okay, I'm a knowledge for profit professional.
00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:52.000
I think for a living, I'm a fee-for-service professional that deserves recurring revenue to go right across in terms of maximizing value.
00:25:52.160 --> 00:25:58.960
They have to shift from their knowledge to their expertise to their intellectual property as a fee-for-service professional.
00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:06.319
And intellectual property is ultimately all of the aspects of your value that don't solely reside in your head.
00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:10.720
If it's in your head, your way, your approach, your process.
00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:17.599
If it's in your head, it's a quality, it's a skill, it's an intention, it's not proprietary.
00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:18.000
Right.
00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:23.599
I've been like a broken record gabe saying to advisors, what is it that I can only get from you?
00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:30.640
And they'll list off all these things like, oh, my advice, my judgment, my discernment, my you know, moral compass and all.
00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:32.400
And I'll say, I'll never trivialize this.
00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:34.559
These are qualities I can get somewhere else.
00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:36.319
What can't I get somewhere else?
00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:38.000
It's your client experience.
00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:44.880
It's the not just how you react to a need, it's how you create a client experience.
00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:48.559
It's the scheduled, predictive approach to process.
00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:50.720
It's future pacing for the client.
00:26:50.799 --> 00:26:52.240
This is what it means to be our client.
00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:53.519
This is our client experience.
00:26:53.680 --> 00:26:55.039
And it's your process.
00:26:55.200 --> 00:27:06.319
The moment that is out of your head in a proprietary playbook, standardized, optimized, professionalized, that's our SOP, to the point where you could put it in somebody else's hands.
00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:07.440
That's IP.
00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:10.640
That's where it's no longer a book of business.
00:27:10.720 --> 00:27:11.440
It's a business.
00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:19.359
Your scaling ability has multiplied, your end game and enterprise value has multiplied.
00:27:19.519 --> 00:27:23.039
And in a nutshell, that's what it means to build a business by design.
00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:25.039
Yeah, I think that's exactly right.
00:27:25.279 --> 00:27:28.880
I wanted to ask you, Duncan, regarding that client experience.
00:27:29.119 --> 00:27:34.640
When they're thinking about it, when they're systematizing it and then writing it down and getting that in the playbook.
00:27:34.720 --> 00:27:39.039
So not only they're following it, but now the team is following it as well.
00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:43.920
What are the important things to be considering about the client experience that separates it?
00:27:44.079 --> 00:27:47.200
What distinguishes it from everybody, what everybody else is doing?
00:27:47.359 --> 00:27:54.319
So the people that they're serving come back and say, you know, it's not just those qualities, but it's something completely special and different.
00:27:54.559 --> 00:27:56.559
Well, and I can get into the weeds on that if you like.
00:27:56.640 --> 00:28:02.559
And if you want, if anybody on in your community wants access to some resources, we can make them available.
00:28:02.799 --> 00:28:08.079
It's a very methodical, directional, incremental approach.
00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:11.680
It's not instantaneous or dramatic, it just builds on itself.
00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:15.200
But again, I come back to that sort of 10 things by 1%.
00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:16.079
Yeah.
00:28:16.400 --> 00:28:22.559
So we have a process, an exercise completely free, no obligation, no expectation.
00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:25.599
It's just kick your own tires, know where you stand.
00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:27.519
It's a practice management index.
00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:38.160
You pop your hood, you kick your own tires, and this is it's designed to help someone get clarity and self-assess on where their blind spots, gaps, and unmet needs are.
00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:38.880
Okay.
00:28:39.039 --> 00:28:46.240
So just in your mind's eye, envision a circle and then a line straight down and straight across four quadrants.
00:28:46.400 --> 00:28:50.799
As a starting point, this is where most financial advisors have gaps.
00:28:50.960 --> 00:28:51.279
Okay.
00:28:51.440 --> 00:28:57.759
So just in your mind's eye, envision the top left quadrant of the circle, and that's on side.
00:28:57.920 --> 00:28:58.240
Okay.
00:28:58.480 --> 00:29:00.559
On side is a fit process.
00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:01.039
Okay.
00:29:01.119 --> 00:29:06.160
So I say to an advisor, how many prospective clients have you met with in your lifetime?
00:29:06.319 --> 00:29:07.920
And they'll say, hundreds.
00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:08.559
Right.
00:29:08.720 --> 00:29:09.039
Okay.
00:29:09.200 --> 00:29:11.680
How many steps are in your fit process?
00:29:11.839 --> 00:29:14.480
You get a phone call from a great advocate.
00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:16.319
They introduce a friend to you.
00:29:16.559 --> 00:29:18.559
You make contact with that friend.
00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:22.880
How many steps are there in your process after you've received the introduction?
00:29:23.039 --> 00:29:29.359
You've met the prospective client all the way through your fit process to bring them on side to the signing ceremony.
00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:30.160
How many steps?
00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:30.960
Nobody knows.
00:29:31.119 --> 00:29:34.480
They say, Well, we do this, we do this, we I go, no, no, no.
00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:36.559
Know your number, do your inventory.
00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:38.720
There's 12 steps in your fit process.
00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:40.799
Now, a lot of them do it out of their heads.
00:29:40.960 --> 00:29:42.480
I'm saying that's not IP.
00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:42.880
Right.
00:29:43.039 --> 00:29:48.640
Let's get them laid out in a straight line where you could literally bring on a temp and say, This is our way.
00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:49.920
This is our fit process.
00:29:50.079 --> 00:29:50.400
Yes.
00:29:50.960 --> 00:29:57.200
Now, with the advent of AI and these proven strategies, this can be deployed in a blink.
00:29:57.359 --> 00:29:57.599
Okay.
00:29:57.759 --> 00:29:58.880
So that's the first.
00:29:59.119 --> 00:30:02.319
So typical advisor maybe has seven steps in the fit process.
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:03.759
We're saying there should be 12.
00:30:03.839 --> 00:30:05.519
Let's get those five addressed.
00:30:05.599 --> 00:30:05.920
Yeah.
00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:08.000
And built out in your playbook.
00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:10.319
Digitally, physically, out of your head.
00:30:10.480 --> 00:30:10.720
Right.
00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:13.359
The second quadrant is on board.
00:30:13.519 --> 00:30:13.759
Okay.
00:30:13.839 --> 00:30:16.079
How many clients have you onboarded in your career?
00:30:16.240 --> 00:30:16.799
Hundreds.
00:30:17.039 --> 00:30:17.519
Where is it?
00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:18.640
Where does that live?
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:19.839
How many steps are in it?
00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:21.519
Oh, well, we just know what we're doing.
00:30:21.680 --> 00:30:22.400
No, no, no, no.
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:31.359
Maybe there's 15 steps in your onboarding process to move a client from a former environment to yours and to fast track them to advocacy and set expectations and future pace of the relationship.
00:30:31.519 --> 00:30:32.960
Boom, let's get that built out.
00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:34.799
Everybody's got an onboarding process.
00:30:34.960 --> 00:30:35.440
Where is it?
00:30:35.599 --> 00:30:36.319
How many steps?
00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:40.720
Does it depend on somebody sort of winging it, or is it airtight?
00:30:40.880 --> 00:30:41.839
Yeah, airtight a lot.
00:30:42.079 --> 00:30:42.240
Okay.
00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:44.880
Bottom right quadrant, that's ongoing.
00:30:44.960 --> 00:30:48.000
That's your service model tied to the classification of the client.
00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:48.480
Okay.
00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:54.480
So simplistically, if you're an 80-20 advisor, 20% of your clients represent 80% of your business.
00:30:54.640 --> 00:30:58.720
Those 60 clients get this client experience, this service model.
00:30:58.799 --> 00:31:03.119
This is the predictive schedule, not just reactive, predictive.
00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:05.839
And then the 80% get a different client experience.
00:31:05.920 --> 00:31:09.119
All documented, all crystal clear, airtight.
00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:11.759
And then the last quadrant is on words.
00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:18.000
Now you look at the pattern on side, on board, on, always on.
00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:18.400
Yes.
00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:21.200
On, on, on, on, on your business.
00:31:21.440 --> 00:31:26.240
This takes an advisor anywhere between 90 to 180 days to build out.
00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:30.000
And here's the secret sauce: don't be your own best kept secret.
00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:31.839
Show your clients.
00:31:32.079 --> 00:31:33.359
Make a client facing.
00:31:33.519 --> 00:31:41.200
Like Gabe, if you were my client and I'm your advisor, and we were having a strategy and tactical meeting, we're working through the agenda, the meetings winding down.
00:31:41.359 --> 00:31:52.640
As the meeting's winding down, I say, hey, Gabe, I just got to tell you, we're so excited around here because we've we're going through an exercise to elevate the client experience and really build out and elevate our process.
00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:55.759
And you know, we've got some great clients, but they're not aware of everything we do.
00:31:55.839 --> 00:31:58.480
So I just wanted to show you our fit process.
00:31:58.640 --> 00:32:05.039
Because as you know, we only accept new clients that are introduced to us, but we just want to make sure everybody knows what they're going to experience.
00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:05.440
Yeah.
00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:09.200
And I show you this, my referability has just gone up.
00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:13.759
Then if you show any interest, I might say, Oh, I'm going to show you our onboarding process too.
00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:23.119
Your ability to internalize this and walk out the door and socialize it to somebody else with persuasive impact has just gone through the roof.
00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:25.119
So make it all client-facing.
00:32:25.279 --> 00:32:29.839
Show the world this is how we roll, this is our way, this is our process.
00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:30.799
I love that.
00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:36.079
And I love that especially for clients that are those natural referrers, they've got that heart.
00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:40.480
Once you inspire them with what you're doing, then they're going to take it out and share it.
00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:43.599
And that will get other people inspired and lead them back to you too.
00:32:43.839 --> 00:32:48.160
Okay, so I just got to pounce on that for a second because I love to remind advisors.
00:32:48.319 --> 00:32:54.160
I say, if you got 10 actual referrals in the last 12 months, that's huge.
00:32:54.240 --> 00:32:55.920
And that says you're referral.
00:32:56.079 --> 00:32:58.000
But I need you to understand something.
00:32:58.160 --> 00:33:01.599
There's a big difference between an endorsement and an introduction.
00:33:01.759 --> 00:33:03.599
It's about a five to one ratio.
00:33:03.680 --> 00:33:08.480
If you got 10 actual introductions, you were probably talked about 50 times.
00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:18.559
But 40 of those endorsements were where the client just basically sort of sang your praises, and they said, Oh, yeah, you got to talk to Gabe, he's a great guy.
00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:19.839
Here's his number.
00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:24.000
And the endorsement went to the head of the friend to die.
00:33:24.160 --> 00:33:27.359
Every advisor has received this question from a client.
00:33:27.440 --> 00:33:27.680
Yeah.
00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:29.440
Did my friend ever call you?
00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:31.519
Because I was talking to a friend and I told him to call you.
00:33:31.599 --> 00:33:32.240
Did he call you?
00:33:32.400 --> 00:33:32.559
Right.
00:33:33.359 --> 00:33:34.799
I hear that too, Duncan.
00:33:34.880 --> 00:33:36.160
Oh, nobody called.
00:33:36.480 --> 00:33:46.720
Close the gap from endorsement to introduction by reframing and reintroducing yourself to rejuvenate how they perceive you and how they describe you.
00:33:46.880 --> 00:33:46.960
Yeah.
00:33:47.119 --> 00:33:48.480
By showing them your process.
00:33:48.559 --> 00:33:54.400
And I'm telling you, if this is positioned instead of pitched, we don't ask for referrals.
00:33:54.559 --> 00:34:00.240
We talk about the concept of an introduction, but we don't pitch it as a favor we're asking of someone.
00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:03.759
We position it as a service we're providing for someone.
00:34:03.839 --> 00:34:05.279
That's interpreted differently.
00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:12.000
If you're already referral and close the gap from endorsement to introduction, what I talk to advisors all the time.
00:34:12.159 --> 00:34:14.559
They get 10 referrals, one's an ideal client.
00:34:14.719 --> 00:34:19.679
12 months later, they get 17 introductions, 12 perfect clients.
00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:23.119
Nowhere did they all of a sudden become better financial advisors.
00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:25.199
They just demystified their value.
00:34:25.280 --> 00:34:32.000
They removed the mystery, rejuvenated, and reframed how they were perceived, and the fish are jumping in the boat.
00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:34.880
I demystified their value, Duncan.
00:34:35.039 --> 00:34:39.679
I think that's really incredible because it's exactly what we should be doing every single day.
00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:52.159
One of the things that I'm seeing more and more is even after enter has been referred, that people still, and I think there's studies that are backing this up, people still go to AI to check out who they are.
00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:57.760
And I think that advisors are surprised when they go to AI to see what it's saying about them.
00:34:57.920 --> 00:35:02.960
Tell me how you are thinking about AI for financial advisory practices right now.
00:35:03.119 --> 00:35:05.360
What should people be thinking about and doing?
00:35:05.599 --> 00:35:06.800
That's a big question.
00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:07.199
Yeah.
00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:18.159
I I will tell you not to deflect too much, but uh, we did write a pretty robust white paper on AI for the financial professional that somebody can download.
00:35:18.239 --> 00:35:23.119
And we actually refreshed it recently because it's evolving at you know just a lightning pace.
00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:23.679
Yes.
00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:31.760
But it's a pretty meaty document of best practices that we've observed and deployed in our coaching and consulting.
00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:33.840
So that's a good starting point.
00:35:33.920 --> 00:35:40.320
And again, I don't get into any of the esoteric stuff or the stuff that causes grief with compliance.
00:35:40.480 --> 00:35:47.199
This is all the proprietary stuff that puts more sand in your hourglass as per the icon there.
00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:47.840
Yes.
00:35:48.079 --> 00:35:55.440
You know, just backing up though, I do remind advisors like focus on what AI can do, but also focus on what it can't do.
00:35:55.679 --> 00:36:00.079
AI is designed to liberate you to go deeper into the relationship.
00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:05.920
Okay, so if you can find back to that balance dynamic, if you can balance AI with AI, right?
00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:18.639
The emotional intelligence, high-tech, high touch, especially for the most complex, meaningful, ideal clients, AI can contribute to that, but it won't replace the human dynamic.
00:36:18.719 --> 00:36:21.920
And that's what a lot of people are craving because I I see it.
00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:25.920
The more technology creeps into our lives, the more the human touch matters.
00:36:26.159 --> 00:36:26.400
Right.
00:36:26.639 --> 00:36:31.440
So, but anyway, in into the weeds, that white paper goes very, very deep.
00:36:31.599 --> 00:36:40.320
In fact, I know advisors who have taken that white paper and asked AI to summarize it so they could go from, you know, well, right, because we're not going to read the whole thing anymore.
00:36:40.480 --> 00:36:43.760
We just want a summary so we can walk away after two minutes and say, I get it.
00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:47.039
Well, or at least decide if you do want to opt in.
00:36:47.199 --> 00:36:47.599
Yes.
00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:52.559
You know, like maybe after they read the three pages, they go, Yeah, that actually speaks to me.
00:36:52.719 --> 00:36:54.559
You're talking to me and what I want to achieve.
00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:57.280
So now I'll commit to the the deeper dive.
00:36:57.360 --> 00:36:59.519
But or they just want to be able to check the box.
00:36:59.599 --> 00:37:00.079
That's all good.
00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:15.920
But I've never seen anything come out of, you know, virtually nowhere and have this degree of adoption and impact as, you know, frankly, both AIs, and that's artificial intelligence and alternative investments.
00:37:16.159 --> 00:37:30.880
The democratization of access to information and access to certain investment opportunities, I think it's never going to be a better time to be a financial advisor than the next five years based on some of these innovations.
00:37:31.119 --> 00:37:34.239
Well, and I like that you said that the human touch still matters.
00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:40.079
I think the same thing that while we have a wonderful tool to use, that it still requires human judgment.
00:37:40.239 --> 00:37:47.360
And now I think authenticity in an advisor's voice and what they're sharing with their clients is super important.
00:37:47.760 --> 00:37:50.079
Tell me what you were just saying there, Duncan.
00:37:50.320 --> 00:37:52.719
What's what's your vision for the next five years?
00:37:52.880 --> 00:38:02.320
Where do you think things are headed and what should be people be doing to prepare themselves and so they can stay at the forefront of where things are headed and where they're currently at?
00:38:02.559 --> 00:38:03.760
Yeah, that's great questions.
00:38:03.920 --> 00:38:11.599
Well, as I think about that, I mean, our our progression is growing, teaming, scaling, exiting.
00:38:11.679 --> 00:38:12.000
Yeah.
00:38:12.159 --> 00:38:26.000
And we've worked with clients for literally years and in some cases decades through that entire progression, growing their business and then teaming to create consistency and efficiency, scaling.
00:38:26.079 --> 00:38:37.519
So taking the organic business as a proof of concept, and then going out and acquiring a business or attracting advisors to adopt and draft in behind the process and then exiting.
00:38:37.679 --> 00:38:42.400
I guess it depends on where the advisors at in that progression.
00:38:42.719 --> 00:38:50.320
But I will say working on the business, you know, I learned that by the way, over 30 years ago from Michael Gerber's book, The E-Myth.
00:38:50.480 --> 00:38:50.639
Yes.
00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:57.280
The Eureka moment for me was when he talked about the difference between a baker and somebody who owns a successful bakery.
00:38:57.440 --> 00:38:57.599
Right.
00:38:57.840 --> 00:39:01.920
So the baker's got technical ability, but they are trading time for money.
00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:10.559
They're starting over every morning, pumping up this leaky tire where somebody who has a bakery creates leverage distribution.
00:39:10.719 --> 00:39:14.639
Obviously, there's hassle factor and other issues, but they can scale.
00:39:14.800 --> 00:39:17.280
And so that's the benefit of working on the business.
00:39:17.599 --> 00:39:21.440
You're not just, you know, monetizing based on your core competency.
00:39:21.599 --> 00:39:23.599
You're building something with equity.
00:39:23.679 --> 00:39:27.199
It's like force savings, slamming money in the enterprise value bank.
00:39:27.360 --> 00:39:31.440
So these are all the things that are in at the core of what we do.
00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:43.280
And we love to see that play out, especially when somebody, you know, I talked to an advisor earlier today who went through a sell and stay, says the best thing I ever done because I'm I took some chips off the table.
00:39:43.360 --> 00:39:45.760
I'm de-risked, I'm financially independent.
00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:47.280
I go to work because I want to.
00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:50.800
I've never been a better financial advisor because I'm not looking over my shoulder.
00:39:51.039 --> 00:39:53.039
There's nothing sort of, there's no weight on me.
00:39:53.119 --> 00:39:56.079
And now, you know, I can really focus on what I'm doing.
00:39:56.239 --> 00:40:03.360
And he's also grown down his client count to grow further up market based on the complexity of the clients.
00:40:03.519 --> 00:40:12.559
Demography is such a powerful shift, too, where you've got this growing segment of clients with very complex needs evolving very, very quickly.
00:40:12.719 --> 00:40:16.800
The advisors who are growing up market, that's adding fulfillment too.
00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:19.039
So I'm not even sure if I answered your question.
00:40:19.119 --> 00:40:24.320
But uh you did because those pictures that you're painting, I think that that sounds like a piece of nirvana.
00:40:24.480 --> 00:40:29.199
That if they were thinking about where they wanted to head, it sounds like that they're getting there.
00:40:29.280 --> 00:40:37.679
And you know, with your help, that finding that fulfillment in what they're doing, that sounds like a wonderful experience and something that you'd get up and want to go to work every day.
00:40:37.840 --> 00:40:38.079
Yeah.
00:40:38.320 --> 00:40:46.000
Duncan, for our listeners that would like to get in touch with you, get a copy of your book, or to find out more about the Blue Square method, how should they do that?
00:40:46.239 --> 00:40:47.039
Well, thanks, Gabe.
00:40:47.199 --> 00:40:51.760
I would say just uh go to ParetoSystems.com and just get to know us.
00:40:51.920 --> 00:40:57.760
You can schedule a call with us just to understand if what we do aligns with what you're trying to accomplish.
00:40:57.840 --> 00:41:00.000
There's all kinds of resources we make available.
00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:06.079
The diagnostic tool I was talking about, the PMI, the AI white paper, all kinds of other resources.
00:41:06.239 --> 00:41:08.880
I'm very active on LinkedIn, just Duncan McPherson.
00:41:09.039 --> 00:41:12.400
I should pop right up and you know that I stir that pot daily.
00:41:12.639 --> 00:41:13.920
Yeah, so just check in with us.
00:41:14.079 --> 00:41:16.639
And yeah, if you want to get to know us better, that's probably a good start.
00:41:16.880 --> 00:41:19.440
Duncan, I've enjoyed our conversation and gotten a lot from it.
00:41:19.599 --> 00:41:20.159
Thank you so much.
00:41:20.320 --> 00:41:22.320
Likewise, Gabe, thank you very much.