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Hello and welcome to the Valuation Metric, a podcast about the risks, rewards, roadblocks, and revelations reshaping the way that we measure worth.
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I'm your host, Sarah Getterman, CEO of Green Builder Media, North America's leading media company focused on green building and sustainable living.
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I'm here coming to you live from our sustainability compound in the middle of the National Forest at Mariposa Meadows.
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So don't mind if the occasional deer or moose walks by.
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Now, every home ever built makes an argument about what matters, where the light comes in, what it costs to keep warm, whether it will keep standing for the next generation.
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For most of the last century, we've settled that argument with one simple number, price per square foot.
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My guest today runs a company that builds more than a hundred of those arguments at any given time all across North America.
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And he'll tell you that not one of them is the same house twice.
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Rob Cecil is the chief executive officer and president of Alaire Homes, North America's largest custom home building and renovation network, with well over a hundred locations across the US and Canada.
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Rob joined Alaire in 2013 and spent a decade as president and chief operating officer before stepping into the CEO role in 2024.
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But before Alaire, he founded several companies, led global sales organizations, and advised gross stage businesses in more than a dozen countries.
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He writes on leadership for entrepreneur, where his columns tend to argue for the opposite of what most executives actually do: delegate instead of control, make room for failure instead of punishing it, and treat tradition as something to interrogate rather than to just inherent.
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So, Rob, welcome to the valuation metric.
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Thank you, Sarah.
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Pleasure to be here.
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All right.
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So, Rob, you've built companies, you've sold technology, you've advised businesses on four continents.
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You could have run almost anything.
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Why houses?
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What is it about the act of building a place for someone to live in that held you when other industries didn't?
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It's a great question, Sarah.
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I would say that actually it was not the building of houses or homes that that attracted me and kept me uh here.
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It's really the people and the craftsmen and the artists behind building these homes that have kept me here.
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So you're right.
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I've I've I've been in a lot of different industries, worked around the world, uh, but it wasn't until uh I met uh the the very early beginnings of Valaire that they believed something that I had always believed.
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And so that connection uh is what kept me here, and that was it's not about whatever product or service you build, but it's really about the people.
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And although a lot of organizations speak to that, very few actually build it into their core values and build their business around it.
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So um, as as wonderful as the end product, if you will, a gorgeous home uh might be, it's actually the people behind it that I think are maybe some of the most fascinating people I've ever met.
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That's interesting.
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I love that.
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Now, uh switching gears a little, you're a musician, and I've always thought that music and construction are kind of strange cousins.
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Both are structure in service of feeling, both are invisible when they're done well.
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So has playing music changed how you think about building?
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And is there something that a song or music has taught you that a spreadsheet never could?
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That's a really interesting question.
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I would say that at least my experience, Sarah, uh, in music, both in performance and creating, writing, recording, uh, making records, it's a collaborative process.
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And obviously, building a custom home or renovating uh a home for a homeowner uh is deeply collaborative.
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And it requires a clear vision as to what you want it to be in the end.
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And uh I've I've always believed that you musically you play to the song, not what you're capable of doing.
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And the same with building homes, uh craftsmen are capable of doing all types of things, but it's like what what really does this home need?
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What does a homeowner need?
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What is the outcome?
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How do they want to live?
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Let's collaborate and work to that end goal.
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So uh musically, I think is is actually uh, you know, both math and and art and and clearly building is the same way.
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So I would say collaboration is uh probably what makes them actually, you know, not just cousins, but maybe siblings.
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Interesting.
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So uh what type of a musician are you?
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Are you a composer?
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Do you play instruments?
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Do you sing, all of the above?
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Do you like to perform?
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And the next layer of that question is if you were uh on a job site, which role would you associate your uh you know, your musician role with most closely?
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Uh so to answer your question, yes, I I do write, I do record.
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Uh I'm a I'm a drummer by trade.
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Uh so I I would I would align with that.
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And uh as I said a moment ago, you know, playing for the song, not what you're capable of.
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So uh I enjoy leading from the back.
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And often uh, you know, if if there are drummers in the room here, they would all agree that uh we think we're the leaders of the band.
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Uh however, the thing is is we're there to support uh everybody else.
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So uh yeah, it's it's again very interesting that you put those connections together.
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I don't think I've ever thought of it that way, but uh it makes a lot of sense.
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And there's no way that any one person, whether you're the largest uh superstar in the world, uh you go and see a performance, you look at all of the choreography, all of the work from the musicians, uh, all the other uh artists, perhaps dancers, uh, lighting, engineers, sound engineers, it takes all types of skills uh to produce that that final output.
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And again, building homes are very similar.
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Indeed.
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So I saw an interview with you once that where you said that every single project that Alaire does is a prototype of a home that's never been built before.
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And that's really a mark a remarkable thing for someone who leads a company as large as Alaire.
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I think you've got 109 franchises with 125 locations across North America.
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Correct me if I'm wrong on those numbers, but most companies um at your scale are selling repeatability.
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Uh, but what what do you have to offer?
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What do you have to give up?
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Um, what do you lead with philosophically to run a company that really just doesn't replicate the same thing twice?
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What a lair leads with is the experience.
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And yes, even though every one of our homes are a prototype in many ways, uh, we do not build any track homes, uh anything of that nature.
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Uh, but but what we what we do believe is repeatable is a core belief in systems and and processes, or as some of my Canadian friends may say, processes.
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And uh, you know, so so we really dial in very hard into what can we repeat, what can we scale, what can we do consistently over and over and over, uh, whether you're building where you are uh or building down on the coast or any other, you got to take climate and and and location and design, all of those into consideration.
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However, uh behind the scenes, the more that you can replicate and have systems that can be done in a very similar fashion over and over and over, that's actually what's created scale for a layer.
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So, but yeah, at the end of the day, uh, you know, we work with uh architects who you know design and dream up amazing homes.
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And our job is to ensure that you, as the homeowner, um, have the best experience possible while we're actually building it.
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Yes, everybody wants the same result.
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You want to have that home to be finished, you want to be able to walk in, you want to have your first welcoming party with your friends and family.
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We all want the the same thing.
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However, it's far too often been in our ex in our industry, Sarah, that the experience, whether it's a custom build or renovation, uh is is less than stellar.
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And unfortunately, many homeowners would not recommend their contractor to their friends or family.
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So we really try to attack the experience.
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And the only way to control experience is to plan in advance so that when things invariably go maybe not as planned, you have a plan actually to get that back on track.
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Interesting.
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Now, obviously, the thing that's really plaguing our industry right now is affordability and attainability at all levels, um, not just at entry level or even move up levels of housing, but at all levels.
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And our thesis is that there is no affordable home or retainable home that isn't sustainable because you really can't have a home that's affordable that isn't high performance, that doesn't address ongoing operating costs and durability and maintenance issues, and uh at this point, resiliency, health and wellness, even energy independence uh through solar plus storage.
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Um, you need all of those things to make a home truly affordable, not just in terms of first cost, but full cost.
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So, what's your current thinking right now?
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And how is ALARER addressing the concept of affordability, not in terms of just lowest cost for pair for square foot that your builders, Alaire builders build, because I know that that's not um the path that Alaire is on, which is great.
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Um, but in terms of really providing the most value per square foot and uh in the in the long term and ongoing costs as opposed to just lowest first cost.
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Well, intentionality it shows up in in in many forms.
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And one of those forms is uh, and again, I spoke about planning, is understanding how you want to live in the home before it's ever built.
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So if you can maximize the value and really think through from room to room, how are you going to uh when you wake up in the morning, what are your what are your typical routines?
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Um and so all the way through the day, uh do you have kids, do you have grandkids?
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Uh do you like to entertain a lot?
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So you need to take all those into consideration.
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And far too often uh we believe, Sarah, that uh the idea that building a home is you're just building a house.
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It's a building.
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And fact of the matter is that none of us think that way about our homes.
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You don't think that way?
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I don't think that way.
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I don't know anybody who thinks that way that it's like, oh, yeah, I live in a building.
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It's like, no, I live in my home.
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And my home should reflect not only my lifestyle, but reflect the things that I personally value.
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And when you put that intentionality into a home initially, and it's backed by uh very good systems, good engineering, and very thoughtful, that home is going to perform better.
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Quite honestly, that home is going to be more valuable 10 years, 20 years from now than a home that really did not take that into consideration.
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And whereas that might sound idealistic, uh, that's actually the root of uh why you know you think about cars.
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What why do some cars hold their value more than others?
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Uh well, they were engineered better, typically, right?
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That's and and uh so even high performance uh machines, whether it's a it's a vehicle or anything else, they often have uh higher operating costs, but they also retain their value.
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So when you're trying to find the balance between uh affordability or attainability and performance, it's a balance.
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But as more products continue to come on the market and more homeowners are demanding uh things like wellness architecture, uh, you know, I think we're gonna see some some costs start to come down because anything that's relatively new tends to have a higher price point.
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And then as more product and and services become available uh and more technicians are trained on those systems, uh, the hope is that we'll continue to see a reduction in some of those costs while maintaining the high performance aspect.
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Indeed.
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Well, you just made the whole case for our initiative uh for shifting uh the valuation metric for homes from price per square foot to value per square foot, which incorporates uh everything that you just said.
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Um now you mentioned wellness architecture, and I'm glad that you did because that's a term that I know is very near and dear to Alaire, and uh that's a big area of focus for you.
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So talk a little bit about that, what it um means just in general, and then how you see Alaire builders throughout North America incorporating that into the their projects.
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Yeah, well, um, as you know, Brandon uh Bryant and his team in Asheville, North Carolina are uh building a home centered exclusively around the concept of wellness architecture.
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Uh if he hasn't been on your show, I hope you have him on because he's good because he is truly the expert when it comes to that.
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I might know a lot about business, as does Brandon, of course.
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But uh whereas I focus on building businesses, he's uh very focused on building uh incredible projects that have wellness as well as resilience built in from the foundation.
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And whether um, you know, we speak of the eight pillars, uh, and you know, whether it's connection and nature, uh vibe, uh nourish, you know, and all the other components to wellness architecture, it's not just uh clean air or things of that that I think everybody expects today.
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But again, it's back to the intentionality.
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How are you going to live?
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Um and how are you going to not just live, but live healthy in your home for extended periods of time.
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And a home that is healthy uh is a home that is happy.
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And a happy, healthy home, frankly, is more valuable.
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So um we're very excited about that project.
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One of the wonderful things about Alaire is uh we speak about this often internally, is our ability to learn 100x faster.
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Um what that means is all of our locations around North America and and growing as we continue uh to scale up, is that uh, you know, professionals like Brandon is sharing in real time everything that they're learning.
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Um, and so we're seeing many of our offices throughout Canada and the US already implementing some of uh uh some of the ideas and systems that that that Brandon really has been a bit of a leader and a trailblazer for us even here at Alaire.
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Wonderful.
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Well, and I can tell you that that project is one of our Vision House projects, the Vision House Asheville.
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And it has been such a pleasure to work with Brandon and his team.
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Uh, not only are they so forward-thinking and just kind people, but um, as you indicated, you know, they're so far ahead of so many people um when thinking about wellness architecture, resiliency, uh, which is important in a in a location like Asheville, rebuilding after um a hurricane, and um also certainly value per square foot.
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Um okay, now switching gears again.
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You've written that perfection is unachievable and that chasing it actively suppresses innovation.
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But construction is an industry where a mistake can mean a failed foundation or water in a wall.
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So there are real consequences, real money, real families and lives that are affected.
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So, how do you hold both of those truths at the same time?
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And where is failure a teacher and where is it just simply unacceptable?
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Wonderful question.
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Uh, there's an old saying, Sarah, that the the more you sweat and practice, the less you bleed in battle.
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Um and and professional athletes you might might use that.
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Um what I mean by that when I say uh that that trying to achieve a level of perfection, first of all, we're human beings.
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And so as hard as we try, uh, we're going to make mistakes.
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At Alaire, we we practice the act of consistently trying to improve our systems, our processes, uh, the way that we go about managing a project.
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Um and the more that we can try innovative areas behind the scenes, we don't have a test kitchen or anything like that uh where we can try a new recipe and say, okay, yeah, that that's terrible.
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Uh nobody wants to eat that.
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Uh we don't have anything like that.
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And and so and we don't build spec homes, uh, as I said, generally.
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Um so we have to we have to work quickly on how can we improve things that are going to directly impact your experience as a homeowner, your experience maybe working with us as an architect or a designer, uh, or your experience working with us as relates to uh supplying us some of the great systems, products, and services that are uh required to put a home together.
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So that's where we're going to we're gonna practice.
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We we talk our technology team, we talk about failing fast, try new things, try to fail fast, um, iterate as quickly as you can, uh, but then also put everything under the microscope.
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And we do that very often, which is this is the way we do things today.
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We believe this is the best.
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Because of that reason, let's get it under the microscope, let's really tear it apart, let's see if it still holds true.
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Because there's always a set of beliefs uh that runs any business plan or runs any uh any project.
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And you should always be stopping and testing and saying, are the beliefs uh or the assumptions that we put into this model uh are they still true because things change.
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And so um we don't have the luxury of of uh of failing on a project.
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That is not something that that we accept whatsoever.
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Uh we accept only the only the best trades and the best partners, uh, but we're humans and things do happen.
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So as I said earlier, having the ability to plan and make every possible effort you can to know that this project is going to be successful on paper before we ever put the first shovel in the ground uh helps us to avoid some of the pitfalls that often happens in construction.
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And we know there's been a lot over the years.
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Yeah.
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Now, speaking of the concept of failing fast and failing hard, you've told the story of losing half a million dollars launching a software product that you never ran past your peers.
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So, what did that feel like at the time?
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And then how long did it take you to be able to tell the story like you tell it now?
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Because as we like to say, uh, tragedy plus time equals comedy.
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So when it starts cease being a tragedy and start becoming a comedy.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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And I can tell you at that time, uh that that half a million dollars uh was significant.
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It's still a significant amount of money, but it was very significant to our organization.
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Um and the mistake we made, quite honestly, Sarah, and and I think this is transferable to a lot of things, is we built it under the belief that this was going to make our business better.
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It was going to provide us with a competitive advantage over competitors, but we never really considered are we building this for our actual client?
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Are we building this for their business?
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And so whether you're talking about technology or or anything anything else that relates to business or even life, is who are you building this for?
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And so many businesses make that mistake, which they they think that that, oh, everybody's gonna love this because we're in love with it.
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And and not only that, but it's going to provide all this value to us.
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Uh, and I'll never forget it.
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Uh, that's why the story I think still lives, is calling my number one client up, so excited, uh, and said, hey, we want to we want to show you something.
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And we set up the demo um and they watched it.
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They're lovely people.
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They loved us, we loved them.
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We had a long-term relationship.
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And at the end, stepped back and said, Yeah, that's not we'll that won't do anything for us, but thanks for sharing it.
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Well, we thought, okay, well, maybe maybe Urban's having a tough day.
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So we went and checked with the next number two through five.
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They all said the exact same thing.
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And so here we're sitting, and it wasn't just the the money, but it was also the lost time and how much effort we had put into what we our set of beliefs versus well where where is our client's business going?
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What do they need to be able to do to be competitive?
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So um it's a it's a painful lesson that I have, as you say, uh time uh and and tragedy turns into comedy.
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We can laugh about it now, but at the time it uh it just about sunk the ship.
00:21:56.240 --> 00:21:56.720
Yeah.
00:21:57.039 --> 00:21:59.759
Now at Alaire, you lead a network.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:03.440
Of independent owners, not necessarily employees.
00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:11.119
And you can't command them, uh, but you can persuade them or or talk with them or encourage them to do certain things.
00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:17.759
So, how has that changed your understanding of what authority actually is and how has it changed your leadership style?
00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:20.000
Wonderful question.
00:22:20.160 --> 00:22:27.519
Uh so uh uh Alaire, we do have a very large uh home office organization that are technically employees of ours.
00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:37.200
And then you're right, throughout North America, we have uh partners uh that are legally franchised partners, but they are independent, they own 100% of their business.
00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:47.920
I've always believed, Sarah, that if uh in order for me to get you to do anything or you to get me to do anything, we have one of two choices.
00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:51.119
We could either manipulate or we can inspire.
00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:56.960
And so we lean hard into inspiring our partners to continue to be the best.
00:22:57.200 --> 00:23:06.559
We have a huge uh responsibility to uh ensure that we have the best technology and the best professional services to support their business.
00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:20.480
Um, but one of the things, and and we're I I I consider myself incredibly fortunate for this is uh the quality of people you talked about, Brandon earlier and and just the the level of human being uh that that they are.
00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:25.440
Uh we're really blessed with with some of the best people in this industry.
00:23:25.599 --> 00:23:31.200
And this industry is full of uh incredible people who have a lot of skill.
00:23:31.359 --> 00:23:45.599
Uh, but I I think we need more who are not just out for themselves, but they're saying, while I'm doing good for me and my family and my business, how can I help others achieve the same thing?
00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:47.519
And how can I learn from them?
00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:56.400
And when I know something, perhaps I've made a mistake uh that I see somebody else is about to make, how do I help them to maybe avoid that?
00:23:56.559 --> 00:24:02.880
And so uh as a as a collective, uh Laire is really uh a number of leaders.
00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:06.640
And and I say it all the time whenever we're together as a as a whole company.
00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:09.279
It's like if you're in this room, you've been called to lead.
00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:14.160
And leading leaders is not the easiest thing, that's for sure.
00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:26.400
Um, however, we we all have a very similar North Star, and that is that uh at our end product is we're building homes, but uh we're also here, and we even our tagline says living better starts here.
00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:35.519
Um, it is about living better and trying to impact the human experience while we're also, by the way, building incredible homes.
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:43.279
So let's riff on that a little bit more for a minute, because I know that Alaire looks at homes as something more than shelter.
00:24:43.359 --> 00:24:52.480
It looks at homes as something, it's it's a place of refuge, a place where people are safe enough to become more of themselves.
00:24:53.119 --> 00:24:59.759
Um and I feel like a lot of the modern housing market has actually forgotten that.
00:25:00.319 --> 00:25:09.119
So, you know, just by optimizing homes for resale and not optimizing them for the humans that actually live inside.
00:25:09.279 --> 00:25:23.200
So I know Alaire's um ethos is different than that, but how do you feel like that ethos can translate outside of a company like Alaire into, say, more of a production scale?
00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:30.400
Um, and you know, how do you feel that that ethos can penetrate the larger industry as a whole?
00:25:31.519 --> 00:25:34.720
Well, I would certainly love if it did, by the way.
00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:37.680
Um we're working for it, right?
00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:40.000
Yes, we're all we're all working for that.
00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:47.119
And and that's why we uh we don't really have share, uh we don't have any trade secrets or anything like that here to Lair.
00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:53.839
We we openly share the things that we learn because again, I mentioned about the 100x learning uh pace.
00:25:54.000 --> 00:26:04.160
Um so if there's something that we have figured out, and it's simply because we've had more opportunities or more at bats that some people might say, uh, then we want to make sure that that that's shared.
00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:16.960
And that's why you'll see a lot of Lair uh people gracing stages at uh IBS and other home builders' associations and their leaders of home builders' associations across the country and up in Canada is is to share.
00:26:17.119 --> 00:26:34.559
But you know, the thing is, is we all know that there's strong, strong data out there, Sarah, that says that, you know, how much better uh a kid does in school when they live in a home that their family owns.
00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:46.880
So the the concept of of attainability is always gonna be present, and particularly over the last few years, as we've all seen a rise in prices across everything, that's gonna continue to be a challenge.
00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:55.039
But um, wellness, the the concept of wellness architecture should not be reserved only for the affluent, quite honestly.
00:26:55.359 --> 00:27:01.680
We should be thinking about uh how people are gonna live in this home.
00:27:01.839 --> 00:27:07.279
How do they stay healthier, uh, which is going to help on uh cut healthcare cost.
00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:10.960
And uh, you know, we always say if you don't have your health, you don't have anything.
00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:24.160
Uh so uh we would love to see more, particularly on the production builder side, um, that the that the the product is not the home, the product is that family in the future living in that home.
00:27:24.319 --> 00:27:26.480
And that should be the product you're thinking about.
00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:36.640
And and how you know, we we spend a lot of time in our lives thinking about uh where can I be the best version of myself or how do I be the best version of myself.
00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:43.279
And everybody deserves the right to be the best version of theirself in their home.
00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:54.720
Um, and so I don't think it actually would erase cost that much to add more intentionality and more wellness into a home.
00:27:54.960 --> 00:28:12.400
And I really hope the whole industry moves that way because uh we have a profound opportunity and therefore responsibility to change the the health and wellness of people who engage with us.
00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:17.680
And we should not, you know, uh abdicate that responsibility, quite honestly.
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:18.720
Indeed.
00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:32.960
Um now, obviously, the housing market is experiencing volatility, uh, labor scarcity, high material costs, insurance markets repricing climate risk, capital flowing towards resilience and energy independence.
00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:37.279
What forces are most impacting a layer?
00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:53.119
Um, and there might be many since you build in markets from coast to coast in the US and Canada, but what would you say are kind of the prevailing um areas that uh your Alaire builders are grappling with?
00:28:53.440 --> 00:29:01.680
And how, you know, what's kind of the breakthrough um to you know, kind of work through those dynamics for your builders?
00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:09.440
Well, certainly uh we're we're we are not uh immune from all the challenges the the entire industry has.
00:29:09.519 --> 00:29:27.519
Uh, but uh I think central to this conversation is uh regardless of where we build and we do build and practically every climate uh possible here in North America, um, climate resiliency is going to continue to be right at the top.
00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:34.400
Um you know, uh I don't think there's anywhere that's that's immune or safe from from things.
00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:38.720
I mean, Asheville, North Carolina, who would have thought that that that would have happened?
00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:42.640
I used to live in Vermont and uh and and we got hit with a hurricane.
00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:44.480
People say, Vermont and a hurricane.
00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:45.759
Yes, it happens.
00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:51.839
Uh and it creates tremendous uh problems for extended periods of time.
00:29:52.000 --> 00:30:03.440
So uh a combination of that, Sarah, and uh also uh the continuing aging of our industry and labor shortages uh is going to continue to be a challenge.
00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:10.960
And uh for that reason, I think uh ensuring that you are attractive, we as an industry need to continue.
00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:12.960
And I think many are are attempting to do that.
00:30:13.119 --> 00:30:33.759
Certainly uh Alaire is trying to do its part in uh attracting more younger people and recognizing that you can have an incredible life, an incredible career that pays well, um, but also doing something that matters and building things that you'll be able to take your kids.
00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:42.400
If you have no kids today, 10 years from now, now you've got 10-year-old kids, take them by and say, you know, we built that home and you see a happy family there.
00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:55.519
There's very few, very few professions actually that that can be as rewarding as this industry, but um it's not it's not something that uh I think is top of mind for most.
00:30:55.680 --> 00:31:02.559
So labor shortage is is is certainly the issue, but uh right up there alongside of it, it it's climate resiliency.
00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:09.680
And and you don't have to be on the coast to worry about hurricanes, and you don't have to there was a tornado uh in downtown Toronto just yesterday.
00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:13.920
You know, we have a lot of offices in Toronto, so uh no place is safe.
00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:27.279
We need to be thinking about this and we need to be uh ensuring that we're attracting uh people, young people with great ideas uh that recognize the world that they live in is not the world that we lived in 25 years ago.
00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:28.400
Indeed.
00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:40.559
Um, all of our cognition smart data points to the fact that resiliency is top of mind for everyone, whether it's builders, developers, consumers, certainly lenders and insurers, even appraisers and realtors.
00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:47.440
Um, and so I think by identifying that as a you know kind of a major dynamic that's impacting all of us.
00:31:47.680 --> 00:31:54.480
Um, let's switch over to um the consumer or home buyer side of things.
00:31:54.559 --> 00:31:55.759
Um, similar question.
00:31:56.000 --> 00:32:05.440
What are some of the uh kind of trends or insights that you're hearing about from your Alaire builders about their home buyers?
00:32:05.680 --> 00:32:17.920
I'm going to assume it's resiliency and health and wellness and energy independence and those kinds of things, but uh anything more nuanced within those categories or anything else you're seeing that's uh of interest to you?
00:32:18.640 --> 00:32:24.480
Well, uh yeah, and I mean I think it does fit within with with within that range that you just spoke about, Sarah.
00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:33.279
But uh, you know, as I said a few minutes ago, we like to understand what is your lifestyle, and and that's very important to today's consumer.
00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:41.359
And your young professionals are uh they're focused much more on health and wellness and and balance, uh, right?
00:32:41.519 --> 00:32:46.240
And so some some of us who who grew up being workaholics and that's the way that worked.
00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:54.960
Um, now they're looking for more balance and uh a connection uh to their community, a connection to uh to to nature.
00:32:55.200 --> 00:33:01.519
And uh when they are coming to us, uh they have a pretty good idea of what they're looking for.
00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:10.480
And our job is to uh try to engineer uh that solution as close as we can with their budget, of course, uh into how they want to live.
00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:17.200
And uh the consumer, you know, again, today is is very different than it was pre-COVID, obviously.
00:33:17.359 --> 00:33:20.640
Um, you know, we saw some incredible changes in COVID.
00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:24.799
Everybody was stuck at home and said, this house is not working for me anymore.
00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:28.799
You know, we need a second office or we need a playroom or whatever it was.
00:33:29.119 --> 00:33:47.839
And I think that experience, whether you're talking about young professionals who are now at the place where they're they're they're wanting to build their first custom home or they're wanting to take on, uh they're moving up and they want to do a major renovation on their home, uh, they want to make sure it matches their lifestyle.
00:33:47.920 --> 00:33:59.359
And so uh the upfront work to understand who they are, uh, how they live, what they're trying to achieve in life, not just at your home, uh, is going to continue to be more and more important.
00:33:59.440 --> 00:34:01.599
And we see it and hear it every day.
00:34:01.920 --> 00:34:02.400
Yeah.
00:34:02.559 --> 00:34:10.800
Uh something that I like to say right now is that um homebuyers really have stopped buying square footage.
00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:14.000
They stopped buying square footage a long time, you know, several years ago.
00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:24.079
I think even before the pandemic, when millennials started uh entering in the housing market and kind of brought their values with them as they were making purchase decisions.
00:34:24.320 --> 00:34:26.639
And now they're buying a lived experience.
00:34:26.719 --> 00:34:39.679
And so talking about price per square foot now has become maybe not irrelevant because price is certainly, you know, a major factor in especially a home buying decision, given the price point of it.
00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:50.719
But there's so much more to the conversation that just gets missed if we're just looking at that price per square foot, which tells you how big a house is and what it costs today, and nothing about that lived experience.
00:34:50.960 --> 00:34:55.679
So I think that um your comments are are very astute and of course spot on.
00:34:56.159 --> 00:34:56.559
Yes.
00:34:56.800 --> 00:34:58.719
I mean, you know, you think about it, Sarah.
00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:04.000
It's like uh you ask, well, how much does a bag of groceries cost, or how much is it worth?
00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:08.000
And it's like, well, you know, it depends on what's inside that.
00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:11.199
And healthier food does tend to cost more.
00:35:11.440 --> 00:35:29.280
Um, but again, that's a that's a decision if you're making to eat, uh, make that you're making to eat healthier and to live healthier, uh, likely, not always, but likely means that you're gonna have lower costs in other parts of your life, such as healthcare costs and doctor bills and things of that nature, right?
00:35:29.519 --> 00:35:35.519
So um, yeah, it's you know, people always ask, well, how much, you know, how much is this going to cost?
00:35:35.679 --> 00:35:38.079
And uh, you know, that's always been an analogy.
00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:40.320
It's like, well, what's a bag of groceries cost?
00:35:40.480 --> 00:35:41.760
And you know.
00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:42.960
Yep.
00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:43.920
Um, all right.
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:49.199
So, Rob, I've got two more questions that I ask all of my podcast guests before we wrap up the episode.
00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:54.000
First, when you hear the concept value per square foot, what does that mean to you?
00:35:54.880 --> 00:36:18.079
Uh that means both lifestyle uh attunement um as well as uh long-term viability of not just the structure itself, but the value that I will continue to see as my life uh and my family's life continues to evolve.
00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:20.800
So I I for me I that that's it.
00:36:20.880 --> 00:36:23.199
I think everybody would have a unique answer on that.
00:36:23.840 --> 00:36:24.800
Indeed, they do.
00:36:25.039 --> 00:36:27.920
It's fun to listen to everybody's responses.
00:36:28.159 --> 00:36:38.159
And then my final question is if you could share one thing with our audience that might change the way that they value the world around them, what would it be?
00:36:38.719 --> 00:36:41.599
Wow, that is a great question.
00:36:42.800 --> 00:36:45.519
Uh Dr.
00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:53.280
Wayne Dyer once had a line that I've tried to live by and I try to repeat it as much as I can.
00:36:53.360 --> 00:36:58.079
Uh, and that is change the way you look at things, and the things you look at change.
00:36:58.639 --> 00:37:09.440
And so um we all have a choice every day uh to to to see maybe a lot of the division and and and the things that are happening in our world today.
00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:18.320
Uh and and it'll be easy to let that blind you to the incredible good work that people are out there doing that maybe nobody is seeing.
00:37:18.400 --> 00:37:27.920
Uh, and so my personal advice is to uh step back and say, well, if I looked at this differently, would it start looking differently to me?
00:37:28.960 --> 00:37:29.760
I love that.
00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:31.440
Joy creates joy.
00:37:31.679 --> 00:37:32.079
Yes.
00:37:32.239 --> 00:37:32.559
Yes.
00:37:32.800 --> 00:37:39.119
Well, Rob, thank you so much for um the generosity of your time and your insights today.
00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:45.679
Thank you also for working with us on the Vision House Asheville with uh Alaire Asheville Red Tree.
00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:53.760
We're so excited to watch that project unfold as it spotlights wellness architecture, resiliency, and value per square foot.
00:37:53.840 --> 00:37:56.960
Those are kind of the three main pillars that we're focused on with that project.
00:37:57.199 --> 00:38:06.719
And thank you just for um leading such a um a charismatic and um compassionate team uh as you do.
00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:15.599
The everyone that we've met from a lair is just a wonderful individual and um just seems like they're all committed to a similar mission and vision.
00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:17.199
So kudos to you as a leader.
00:38:17.360 --> 00:38:19.519
Um and thank you again for joining me today.
00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:20.400
Well, thank you.
00:38:20.559 --> 00:38:24.559
We're very proud to be partners with you and uh thank you again for your time today.
00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:25.599
Wonderful.
00:38:25.760 --> 00:38:29.440
Uh thanks to all of you for watching another episode of the valuation metric.
00:38:29.599 --> 00:38:41.519
If this conversation moved you, please share it with anyone that makes decisions about how we design or build or live in our homes so that we can start to value them a little bit differently.
00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:46.960
If you want to learn more about Alair, you can learn at where's the best place to go, Rob?
00:38:47.119 --> 00:38:48.000
Alair.com?
00:38:48.320 --> 00:38:49.360
Alairhomes.com.
00:38:49.840 --> 00:38:50.800
Okay, wonderful.
00:38:51.039 --> 00:38:54.000
And um, until next time, thanks everyone.
00:38:54.239 --> 00:38:58.159
And let's continue to measure what we actually value.
00:38:58.559 --> 00:39:02.320
Before you go, download and subscribe to the podcast wherever you get your podcasts.
00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:08.079
And for daily coverage on sustainability, housing, and the future of home building, visit greenbuildermedia.com.
00:39:08.239 --> 00:39:11.280
That's where we're tracking the trends and shaping what comes next.
00:00:04.959 --> 00:00:13.759
Hello and welcome to the Valuation Metric, a podcast about the risks, rewards, roadblocks, and revelations reshaping the way that we measure worth.
00:00:13.919 --> 00:00:22.000
I'm your host, Sarah Getterman, CEO of Green Builder Media, North America's leading media company focused on green building and sustainable living.
00:00:22.239 --> 00:00:28.640
I'm here coming to you live from our sustainability compound in the middle of the National Forest at Mariposa Meadows.
00:00:28.719 --> 00:00:32.159
So don't mind if the occasional deer or moose walks by.
00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:44.079
Now, every home ever built makes an argument about what matters, where the light comes in, what it costs to keep warm, whether it will keep standing for the next generation.
00:00:44.719 --> 00:00:50.240
For most of the last century, we've settled that argument with one simple number, price per square foot.
00:00:50.880 --> 00:00:58.719
My guest today runs a company that builds more than a hundred of those arguments at any given time all across North America.
00:00:58.960 --> 00:01:02.799
And he'll tell you that not one of them is the same house twice.
00:01:03.679 --> 00:01:15.359
Rob Cecil is the chief executive officer and president of Alaire Homes, North America's largest custom home building and renovation network, with well over a hundred locations across the US and Canada.
00:01:15.760 --> 00:01:24.719
Rob joined Alaire in 2013 and spent a decade as president and chief operating officer before stepping into the CEO role in 2024.
00:01:25.200 --> 00:01:33.599
But before Alaire, he founded several companies, led global sales organizations, and advised gross stage businesses in more than a dozen countries.
00:01:33.840 --> 00:01:51.920
He writes on leadership for entrepreneur, where his columns tend to argue for the opposite of what most executives actually do: delegate instead of control, make room for failure instead of punishing it, and treat tradition as something to interrogate rather than to just inherent.
00:01:52.079 --> 00:01:54.159
So, Rob, welcome to the valuation metric.
00:01:54.959 --> 00:01:55.599
Thank you, Sarah.
00:01:55.680 --> 00:01:56.480
Pleasure to be here.
00:01:57.040 --> 00:01:57.599
All right.
00:01:57.840 --> 00:02:04.239
So, Rob, you've built companies, you've sold technology, you've advised businesses on four continents.
00:02:04.480 --> 00:02:06.400
You could have run almost anything.
00:02:06.879 --> 00:02:07.920
Why houses?
00:02:08.159 --> 00:02:15.039
What is it about the act of building a place for someone to live in that held you when other industries didn't?
00:02:16.960 --> 00:02:18.479
It's a great question, Sarah.
00:02:18.560 --> 00:02:27.280
I would say that actually it was not the building of houses or homes that that attracted me and kept me uh here.
00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:34.319
It's really the people and the craftsmen and the artists behind building these homes that have kept me here.
00:02:34.560 --> 00:02:35.439
So you're right.
00:02:35.520 --> 00:02:50.879
I've I've I've been in a lot of different industries, worked around the world, uh, but it wasn't until uh I met uh the the very early beginnings of Valaire that they believed something that I had always believed.
00:02:50.960 --> 00:03:01.360
And so that connection uh is what kept me here, and that was it's not about whatever product or service you build, but it's really about the people.
00:03:01.599 --> 00:03:09.360
And although a lot of organizations speak to that, very few actually build it into their core values and build their business around it.
00:03:09.520 --> 00:03:22.319
So um, as as wonderful as the end product, if you will, a gorgeous home uh might be, it's actually the people behind it that I think are maybe some of the most fascinating people I've ever met.
00:03:23.039 --> 00:03:23.680
That's interesting.
00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:24.400
I love that.
00:03:24.800 --> 00:03:32.560
Now, uh switching gears a little, you're a musician, and I've always thought that music and construction are kind of strange cousins.
00:03:32.719 --> 00:03:38.319
Both are structure in service of feeling, both are invisible when they're done well.
00:03:38.560 --> 00:03:42.080
So has playing music changed how you think about building?
00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:47.919
And is there something that a song or music has taught you that a spreadsheet never could?
00:03:49.039 --> 00:03:50.400
That's a really interesting question.
00:03:50.560 --> 00:04:02.800
I would say that at least my experience, Sarah, uh, in music, both in performance and creating, writing, recording, uh, making records, it's a collaborative process.
00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:13.199
And obviously, building a custom home or renovating uh a home for a homeowner uh is deeply collaborative.
00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:19.920
And it requires a clear vision as to what you want it to be in the end.
00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:27.360
And uh I've I've always believed that you musically you play to the song, not what you're capable of doing.
00:04:27.600 --> 00:04:36.720
And the same with building homes, uh craftsmen are capable of doing all types of things, but it's like what what really does this home need?
00:04:36.800 --> 00:04:38.160
What does a homeowner need?
00:04:38.319 --> 00:04:39.279
What is the outcome?
00:04:39.439 --> 00:04:40.639
How do they want to live?
00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:44.000
Let's collaborate and work to that end goal.
00:04:44.160 --> 00:04:52.079
So uh musically, I think is is actually uh, you know, both math and and art and and clearly building is the same way.
00:04:52.240 --> 00:04:58.480
So I would say collaboration is uh probably what makes them actually, you know, not just cousins, but maybe siblings.
00:04:59.199 --> 00:04:59.839
Interesting.
00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:02.319
So uh what type of a musician are you?
00:05:02.399 --> 00:05:03.279
Are you a composer?
00:05:03.439 --> 00:05:04.879
Do you play instruments?
00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:06.480
Do you sing, all of the above?
00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:07.839
Do you like to perform?
00:05:08.160 --> 00:05:22.399
And the next layer of that question is if you were uh on a job site, which role would you associate your uh you know, your musician role with most closely?
00:05:23.680 --> 00:05:28.160
Uh so to answer your question, yes, I I do write, I do record.
00:05:28.240 --> 00:05:31.120
Uh I'm a I'm a drummer by trade.
00:05:31.279 --> 00:05:34.319
Uh so I I would I would align with that.
00:05:34.480 --> 00:05:39.439
And uh as I said a moment ago, you know, playing for the song, not what you're capable of.
00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:42.720
So uh I enjoy leading from the back.
00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:50.480
And often uh, you know, if if there are drummers in the room here, they would all agree that uh we think we're the leaders of the band.
00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:54.399
Uh however, the thing is is we're there to support uh everybody else.
00:05:54.639 --> 00:05:59.680
So uh yeah, it's it's again very interesting that you put those connections together.
00:05:59.920 --> 00:06:03.920
I don't think I've ever thought of it that way, but uh it makes a lot of sense.
00:06:04.079 --> 00:06:26.959
And there's no way that any one person, whether you're the largest uh superstar in the world, uh you go and see a performance, you look at all of the choreography, all of the work from the musicians, uh, all the other uh artists, perhaps dancers, uh, lighting, engineers, sound engineers, it takes all types of skills uh to produce that that final output.
00:06:27.040 --> 00:06:29.519
And again, building homes are very similar.
00:06:30.160 --> 00:06:31.040
Indeed.
00:06:31.839 --> 00:06:40.560
So I saw an interview with you once that where you said that every single project that Alaire does is a prototype of a home that's never been built before.
00:06:40.639 --> 00:06:47.360
And that's really a mark a remarkable thing for someone who leads a company as large as Alaire.
00:06:47.600 --> 00:06:52.800
I think you've got 109 franchises with 125 locations across North America.
00:06:52.879 --> 00:07:01.519
Correct me if I'm wrong on those numbers, but most companies um at your scale are selling repeatability.
00:07:01.759 --> 00:07:06.879
Uh, but what what do you have to offer?
00:07:07.040 --> 00:07:08.399
What do you have to give up?
00:07:08.639 --> 00:07:17.360
Um, what do you lead with philosophically to run a company that really just doesn't replicate the same thing twice?
00:07:19.759 --> 00:07:22.959
What a lair leads with is the experience.
00:07:23.439 --> 00:07:33.439
And yes, even though every one of our homes are a prototype in many ways, uh, we do not build any track homes, uh anything of that nature.
00:07:33.519 --> 00:07:44.000
Uh, but but what we what we do believe is repeatable is a core belief in systems and and processes, or as some of my Canadian friends may say, processes.
00:07:44.399 --> 00:08:07.120
And uh, you know, so so we really dial in very hard into what can we repeat, what can we scale, what can we do consistently over and over and over, uh, whether you're building where you are uh or building down on the coast or any other, you got to take climate and and and location and design, all of those into consideration.
00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:19.199
However, uh behind the scenes, the more that you can replicate and have systems that can be done in a very similar fashion over and over and over, that's actually what's created scale for a layer.
00:08:19.439 --> 00:08:28.079
So, but yeah, at the end of the day, uh, you know, we work with uh architects who you know design and dream up amazing homes.
00:08:28.160 --> 00:08:35.200
And our job is to ensure that you, as the homeowner, um, have the best experience possible while we're actually building it.
00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:37.519
Yes, everybody wants the same result.
00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:44.240
You want to have that home to be finished, you want to be able to walk in, you want to have your first welcoming party with your friends and family.
00:08:44.480 --> 00:08:46.080
We all want the the same thing.
00:08:46.240 --> 00:08:57.919
However, it's far too often been in our ex in our industry, Sarah, that the experience, whether it's a custom build or renovation, uh is is less than stellar.
00:08:58.080 --> 00:09:03.200
And unfortunately, many homeowners would not recommend their contractor to their friends or family.
00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:05.919
So we really try to attack the experience.
00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:17.440
And the only way to control experience is to plan in advance so that when things invariably go maybe not as planned, you have a plan actually to get that back on track.
00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:18.960
Interesting.
00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:30.960
Now, obviously, the thing that's really plaguing our industry right now is affordability and attainability at all levels, um, not just at entry level or even move up levels of housing, but at all levels.
00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:52.960
And our thesis is that there is no affordable home or retainable home that isn't sustainable because you really can't have a home that's affordable that isn't high performance, that doesn't address ongoing operating costs and durability and maintenance issues, and uh at this point, resiliency, health and wellness, even energy independence uh through solar plus storage.
00:09:53.120 --> 00:09:58.960
Um, you need all of those things to make a home truly affordable, not just in terms of first cost, but full cost.
00:09:59.120 --> 00:10:01.039
So, what's your current thinking right now?
00:10:01.120 --> 00:10:16.159
And how is ALARER addressing the concept of affordability, not in terms of just lowest cost for pair for square foot that your builders, Alaire builders build, because I know that that's not um the path that Alaire is on, which is great.
00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:27.039
Um, but in terms of really providing the most value per square foot and uh in the in the long term and ongoing costs as opposed to just lowest first cost.
00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:33.360
Well, intentionality it shows up in in in many forms.
00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:42.320
And one of those forms is uh, and again, I spoke about planning, is understanding how you want to live in the home before it's ever built.
00:10:42.559 --> 00:10:52.240
So if you can maximize the value and really think through from room to room, how are you going to uh when you wake up in the morning, what are your what are your typical routines?
00:10:52.399 --> 00:10:58.240
Um and so all the way through the day, uh do you have kids, do you have grandkids?
00:10:58.399 --> 00:11:00.159
Uh do you like to entertain a lot?
00:11:00.320 --> 00:11:02.559
So you need to take all those into consideration.
00:11:02.720 --> 00:11:10.799
And far too often uh we believe, Sarah, that uh the idea that building a home is you're just building a house.
00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:12.240
It's a building.
00:11:12.559 --> 00:11:17.120
And fact of the matter is that none of us think that way about our homes.
00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:18.159
You don't think that way?
00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:19.039
I don't think that way.
00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:22.320
I don't know anybody who thinks that way that it's like, oh, yeah, I live in a building.
00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:23.919
It's like, no, I live in my home.
00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:30.240
And my home should reflect not only my lifestyle, but reflect the things that I personally value.
00:11:30.480 --> 00:11:41.039
And when you put that intentionality into a home initially, and it's backed by uh very good systems, good engineering, and very thoughtful, that home is going to perform better.
00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:48.480
Quite honestly, that home is going to be more valuable 10 years, 20 years from now than a home that really did not take that into consideration.
00:11:48.639 --> 00:11:54.879
And whereas that might sound idealistic, uh, that's actually the root of uh why you know you think about cars.
00:11:55.039 --> 00:11:58.480
What why do some cars hold their value more than others?
00:11:58.559 --> 00:12:02.000
Uh well, they were engineered better, typically, right?
00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:15.039
That's and and uh so even high performance uh machines, whether it's a it's a vehicle or anything else, they often have uh higher operating costs, but they also retain their value.
00:12:15.200 --> 00:12:22.320
So when you're trying to find the balance between uh affordability or attainability and performance, it's a balance.
00:12:22.559 --> 00:12:37.759
But as more products continue to come on the market and more homeowners are demanding uh things like wellness architecture, uh, you know, I think we're gonna see some some costs start to come down because anything that's relatively new tends to have a higher price point.
00:12:37.919 --> 00:12:52.879
And then as more product and and services become available uh and more technicians are trained on those systems, uh, the hope is that we'll continue to see a reduction in some of those costs while maintaining the high performance aspect.
00:12:53.200 --> 00:12:53.679
Indeed.
00:12:53.840 --> 00:13:05.679
Well, you just made the whole case for our initiative uh for shifting uh the valuation metric for homes from price per square foot to value per square foot, which incorporates uh everything that you just said.
00:13:05.840 --> 00:13:15.200
Um now you mentioned wellness architecture, and I'm glad that you did because that's a term that I know is very near and dear to Alaire, and uh that's a big area of focus for you.
00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:26.399
So talk a little bit about that, what it um means just in general, and then how you see Alaire builders throughout North America incorporating that into the their projects.
00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:39.120
Yeah, well, um, as you know, Brandon uh Bryant and his team in Asheville, North Carolina are uh building a home centered exclusively around the concept of wellness architecture.
00:13:39.279 --> 00:13:47.200
Uh if he hasn't been on your show, I hope you have him on because he's good because he is truly the expert when it comes to that.
00:13:47.440 --> 00:13:50.399
I might know a lot about business, as does Brandon, of course.
00:13:50.480 --> 00:14:05.200
But uh whereas I focus on building businesses, he's uh very focused on building uh incredible projects that have wellness as well as resilience built in from the foundation.
00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:25.039
And whether um, you know, we speak of the eight pillars, uh, and you know, whether it's connection and nature, uh vibe, uh nourish, you know, and all the other components to wellness architecture, it's not just uh clean air or things of that that I think everybody expects today.
00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:27.200
But again, it's back to the intentionality.
00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:28.799
How are you going to live?
00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:35.679
Um and how are you going to not just live, but live healthy in your home for extended periods of time.
00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:38.720
And a home that is healthy uh is a home that is happy.
00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:41.519
And a happy, healthy home, frankly, is more valuable.
00:14:41.679 --> 00:14:44.639
So um we're very excited about that project.
00:14:44.879 --> 00:14:53.919
One of the wonderful things about Alaire is uh we speak about this often internally, is our ability to learn 100x faster.
00:14:54.159 --> 00:15:09.919
Um what that means is all of our locations around North America and and growing as we continue uh to scale up, is that uh, you know, professionals like Brandon is sharing in real time everything that they're learning.
00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:25.679
Um, and so we're seeing many of our offices throughout Canada and the US already implementing some of uh uh some of the ideas and systems that that that Brandon really has been a bit of a leader and a trailblazer for us even here at Alaire.
00:15:26.559 --> 00:15:27.039
Wonderful.
00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:31.600
Well, and I can tell you that that project is one of our Vision House projects, the Vision House Asheville.
00:15:31.759 --> 00:15:34.799
And it has been such a pleasure to work with Brandon and his team.
00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:56.240
Uh, not only are they so forward-thinking and just kind people, but um, as you indicated, you know, they're so far ahead of so many people um when thinking about wellness architecture, resiliency, uh, which is important in a in a location like Asheville, rebuilding after um a hurricane, and um also certainly value per square foot.
00:15:56.480 --> 00:15:59.039
Um okay, now switching gears again.
00:15:59.279 --> 00:16:05.360
You've written that perfection is unachievable and that chasing it actively suppresses innovation.
00:16:05.679 --> 00:16:11.759
But construction is an industry where a mistake can mean a failed foundation or water in a wall.
00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:16.559
So there are real consequences, real money, real families and lives that are affected.
00:16:16.720 --> 00:16:20.639
So, how do you hold both of those truths at the same time?
00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:25.279
And where is failure a teacher and where is it just simply unacceptable?
00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:27.200
Wonderful question.
00:16:27.279 --> 00:16:34.240
Uh, there's an old saying, Sarah, that the the more you sweat and practice, the less you bleed in battle.
00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:37.919
Um and and professional athletes you might might use that.
00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:49.519
Um what I mean by that when I say uh that that trying to achieve a level of perfection, first of all, we're human beings.
00:16:49.759 --> 00:16:53.840
And so as hard as we try, uh, we're going to make mistakes.
00:16:54.000 --> 00:17:08.000
At Alaire, we we practice the act of consistently trying to improve our systems, our processes, uh, the way that we go about managing a project.
00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:19.839
Um and the more that we can try innovative areas behind the scenes, we don't have a test kitchen or anything like that uh where we can try a new recipe and say, okay, yeah, that that's terrible.
00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:21.519
Uh nobody wants to eat that.
00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:23.119
Uh we don't have anything like that.
00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:27.759
And and so and we don't build spec homes, uh, as I said, generally.
00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:52.880
Um so we have to we have to work quickly on how can we improve things that are going to directly impact your experience as a homeowner, your experience maybe working with us as an architect or a designer, uh, or your experience working with us as relates to uh supplying us some of the great systems, products, and services that are uh required to put a home together.
00:17:53.119 --> 00:17:56.000
So that's where we're going to we're gonna practice.
00:17:56.160 --> 00:18:08.160
We we talk our technology team, we talk about failing fast, try new things, try to fail fast, um, iterate as quickly as you can, uh, but then also put everything under the microscope.
00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:12.400
And we do that very often, which is this is the way we do things today.
00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:14.079
We believe this is the best.
00:18:14.319 --> 00:18:21.039
Because of that reason, let's get it under the microscope, let's really tear it apart, let's see if it still holds true.
00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:27.680
Because there's always a set of beliefs uh that runs any business plan or runs any uh any project.
00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:38.319
And you should always be stopping and testing and saying, are the beliefs uh or the assumptions that we put into this model uh are they still true because things change.
00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:43.200
And so um we don't have the luxury of of uh of failing on a project.
00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:46.559
That is not something that that we accept whatsoever.
00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:53.279
Uh we accept only the only the best trades and the best partners, uh, but we're humans and things do happen.
00:18:53.440 --> 00:19:12.960
So as I said earlier, having the ability to plan and make every possible effort you can to know that this project is going to be successful on paper before we ever put the first shovel in the ground uh helps us to avoid some of the pitfalls that often happens in construction.
00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:15.680
And we know there's been a lot over the years.
00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:16.319
Yeah.
00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:27.599
Now, speaking of the concept of failing fast and failing hard, you've told the story of losing half a million dollars launching a software product that you never ran past your peers.
00:19:27.759 --> 00:19:29.440
So, what did that feel like at the time?
00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:33.759
And then how long did it take you to be able to tell the story like you tell it now?
00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:37.920
Because as we like to say, uh, tragedy plus time equals comedy.
00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:42.559
So when it starts cease being a tragedy and start becoming a comedy.
00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:43.680
Yes.
00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:44.559
Yes.
00:19:44.640 --> 00:19:52.000
And I can tell you at that time, uh that that half a million dollars uh was significant.
00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:56.880
It's still a significant amount of money, but it was very significant to our organization.
00:19:57.119 --> 00:20:09.440
Um and the mistake we made, quite honestly, Sarah, and and I think this is transferable to a lot of things, is we built it under the belief that this was going to make our business better.
00:20:09.759 --> 00:20:22.240
It was going to provide us with a competitive advantage over competitors, but we never really considered are we building this for our actual client?
00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:24.400
Are we building this for their business?
00:20:24.640 --> 00:20:34.960
And so whether you're talking about technology or or anything anything else that relates to business or even life, is who are you building this for?
00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:43.279
And so many businesses make that mistake, which they they think that that, oh, everybody's gonna love this because we're in love with it.
00:20:43.359 --> 00:20:47.279
And and not only that, but it's going to provide all this value to us.
00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:49.119
Uh, and I'll never forget it.
00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:57.920
Uh, that's why the story I think still lives, is calling my number one client up, so excited, uh, and said, hey, we want to we want to show you something.
00:20:58.079 --> 00:21:01.519
And we set up the demo um and they watched it.
00:21:01.599 --> 00:21:02.640
They're lovely people.
00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:04.240
They loved us, we loved them.
00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:06.000
We had a long-term relationship.
00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:12.720
And at the end, stepped back and said, Yeah, that's not we'll that won't do anything for us, but thanks for sharing it.
00:21:13.839 --> 00:21:18.720
Well, we thought, okay, well, maybe maybe Urban's having a tough day.
00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:22.079
So we went and checked with the next number two through five.
00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:23.759
They all said the exact same thing.
00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:39.680
And so here we're sitting, and it wasn't just the the money, but it was also the lost time and how much effort we had put into what we our set of beliefs versus well where where is our client's business going?
00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:42.640
What do they need to be able to do to be competitive?
00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:51.039
So um it's a it's a painful lesson that I have, as you say, uh time uh and and tragedy turns into comedy.
00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:55.599
We can laugh about it now, but at the time it uh it just about sunk the ship.
00:21:56.240 --> 00:21:56.720
Yeah.
00:21:57.039 --> 00:21:59.759
Now at Alaire, you lead a network.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:03.440
Of independent owners, not necessarily employees.
00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:11.119
And you can't command them, uh, but you can persuade them or or talk with them or encourage them to do certain things.
00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:17.759
So, how has that changed your understanding of what authority actually is and how has it changed your leadership style?
00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:20.000
Wonderful question.
00:22:20.160 --> 00:22:27.519
Uh so uh uh Alaire, we do have a very large uh home office organization that are technically employees of ours.
00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:37.200
And then you're right, throughout North America, we have uh partners uh that are legally franchised partners, but they are independent, they own 100% of their business.
00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:47.920
I've always believed, Sarah, that if uh in order for me to get you to do anything or you to get me to do anything, we have one of two choices.
00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:51.119
We could either manipulate or we can inspire.
00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:56.960
And so we lean hard into inspiring our partners to continue to be the best.
00:22:57.200 --> 00:23:06.559
We have a huge uh responsibility to uh ensure that we have the best technology and the best professional services to support their business.
00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:20.480
Um, but one of the things, and and we're I I I consider myself incredibly fortunate for this is uh the quality of people you talked about, Brandon earlier and and just the the level of human being uh that that they are.
00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:25.440
Uh we're really blessed with with some of the best people in this industry.
00:23:25.599 --> 00:23:31.200
And this industry is full of uh incredible people who have a lot of skill.
00:23:31.359 --> 00:23:45.599
Uh, but I I think we need more who are not just out for themselves, but they're saying, while I'm doing good for me and my family and my business, how can I help others achieve the same thing?
00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:47.519
And how can I learn from them?
00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:56.400
And when I know something, perhaps I've made a mistake uh that I see somebody else is about to make, how do I help them to maybe avoid that?
00:23:56.559 --> 00:24:02.880
And so uh as a as a collective, uh Laire is really uh a number of leaders.
00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:06.640
And and I say it all the time whenever we're together as a as a whole company.
00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:09.279
It's like if you're in this room, you've been called to lead.
00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:14.160
And leading leaders is not the easiest thing, that's for sure.
00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:26.400
Um, however, we we all have a very similar North Star, and that is that uh at our end product is we're building homes, but uh we're also here, and we even our tagline says living better starts here.
00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:35.519
Um, it is about living better and trying to impact the human experience while we're also, by the way, building incredible homes.
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:43.279
So let's riff on that a little bit more for a minute, because I know that Alaire looks at homes as something more than shelter.
00:24:43.359 --> 00:24:52.480
It looks at homes as something, it's it's a place of refuge, a place where people are safe enough to become more of themselves.
00:24:53.119 --> 00:24:59.759
Um and I feel like a lot of the modern housing market has actually forgotten that.
00:25:00.319 --> 00:25:09.119
So, you know, just by optimizing homes for resale and not optimizing them for the humans that actually live inside.
00:25:09.279 --> 00:25:23.200
So I know Alaire's um ethos is different than that, but how do you feel like that ethos can translate outside of a company like Alaire into, say, more of a production scale?
00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:30.400
Um, and you know, how do you feel that that ethos can penetrate the larger industry as a whole?
00:25:31.519 --> 00:25:34.720
Well, I would certainly love if it did, by the way.
00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:37.680
Um we're working for it, right?
00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:40.000
Yes, we're all we're all working for that.
00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:47.119
And and that's why we uh we don't really have share, uh we don't have any trade secrets or anything like that here to Lair.
00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:53.839
We we openly share the things that we learn because again, I mentioned about the 100x learning uh pace.
00:25:54.000 --> 00:26:04.160
Um so if there's something that we have figured out, and it's simply because we've had more opportunities or more at bats that some people might say, uh, then we want to make sure that that that's shared.
00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:16.960
And that's why you'll see a lot of Lair uh people gracing stages at uh IBS and other home builders' associations and their leaders of home builders' associations across the country and up in Canada is is to share.
00:26:17.119 --> 00:26:34.559
But you know, the thing is, is we all know that there's strong, strong data out there, Sarah, that says that, you know, how much better uh a kid does in school when they live in a home that their family owns.
00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:46.880
So the the concept of of attainability is always gonna be present, and particularly over the last few years, as we've all seen a rise in prices across everything, that's gonna continue to be a challenge.
00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:55.039
But um, wellness, the the concept of wellness architecture should not be reserved only for the affluent, quite honestly.
00:26:55.359 --> 00:27:01.680
We should be thinking about uh how people are gonna live in this home.
00:27:01.839 --> 00:27:07.279
How do they stay healthier, uh, which is going to help on uh cut healthcare cost.
00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:10.960
And uh, you know, we always say if you don't have your health, you don't have anything.
00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:24.160
Uh so uh we would love to see more, particularly on the production builder side, um, that the that the the product is not the home, the product is that family in the future living in that home.
00:27:24.319 --> 00:27:26.480
And that should be the product you're thinking about.
00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:36.640
And and how you know, we we spend a lot of time in our lives thinking about uh where can I be the best version of myself or how do I be the best version of myself.
00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:43.279
And everybody deserves the right to be the best version of theirself in their home.
00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:54.720
Um, and so I don't think it actually would erase cost that much to add more intentionality and more wellness into a home.
00:27:54.960 --> 00:28:12.400
And I really hope the whole industry moves that way because uh we have a profound opportunity and therefore responsibility to change the the health and wellness of people who engage with us.
00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:17.680
And we should not, you know, uh abdicate that responsibility, quite honestly.
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:18.720
Indeed.
00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:32.960
Um now, obviously, the housing market is experiencing volatility, uh, labor scarcity, high material costs, insurance markets repricing climate risk, capital flowing towards resilience and energy independence.
00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:37.279
What forces are most impacting a layer?
00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:53.119
Um, and there might be many since you build in markets from coast to coast in the US and Canada, but what would you say are kind of the prevailing um areas that uh your Alaire builders are grappling with?
00:28:53.440 --> 00:29:01.680
And how, you know, what's kind of the breakthrough um to you know, kind of work through those dynamics for your builders?
00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:09.440
Well, certainly uh we're we're we are not uh immune from all the challenges the the entire industry has.
00:29:09.519 --> 00:29:27.519
Uh, but uh I think central to this conversation is uh regardless of where we build and we do build and practically every climate uh possible here in North America, um, climate resiliency is going to continue to be right at the top.
00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:34.400
Um you know, uh I don't think there's anywhere that's that's immune or safe from from things.
00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:38.720
I mean, Asheville, North Carolina, who would have thought that that that would have happened?
00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:42.640
I used to live in Vermont and uh and and we got hit with a hurricane.
00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:44.480
People say, Vermont and a hurricane.
00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:45.759
Yes, it happens.
00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:51.839
Uh and it creates tremendous uh problems for extended periods of time.
00:29:52.000 --> 00:30:03.440
So uh a combination of that, Sarah, and uh also uh the continuing aging of our industry and labor shortages uh is going to continue to be a challenge.
00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:10.960
And uh for that reason, I think uh ensuring that you are attractive, we as an industry need to continue.
00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:12.960
And I think many are are attempting to do that.
00:30:13.119 --> 00:30:33.759
Certainly uh Alaire is trying to do its part in uh attracting more younger people and recognizing that you can have an incredible life, an incredible career that pays well, um, but also doing something that matters and building things that you'll be able to take your kids.
00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:42.400
If you have no kids today, 10 years from now, now you've got 10-year-old kids, take them by and say, you know, we built that home and you see a happy family there.
00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:55.519
There's very few, very few professions actually that that can be as rewarding as this industry, but um it's not it's not something that uh I think is top of mind for most.
00:30:55.680 --> 00:31:02.559
So labor shortage is is is certainly the issue, but uh right up there alongside of it, it it's climate resiliency.
00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:09.680
And and you don't have to be on the coast to worry about hurricanes, and you don't have to there was a tornado uh in downtown Toronto just yesterday.
00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:13.920
You know, we have a lot of offices in Toronto, so uh no place is safe.
00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:27.279
We need to be thinking about this and we need to be uh ensuring that we're attracting uh people, young people with great ideas uh that recognize the world that they live in is not the world that we lived in 25 years ago.
00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:28.400
Indeed.
00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:40.559
Um, all of our cognition smart data points to the fact that resiliency is top of mind for everyone, whether it's builders, developers, consumers, certainly lenders and insurers, even appraisers and realtors.
00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:47.440
Um, and so I think by identifying that as a you know kind of a major dynamic that's impacting all of us.
00:31:47.680 --> 00:31:54.480
Um, let's switch over to um the consumer or home buyer side of things.
00:31:54.559 --> 00:31:55.759
Um, similar question.
00:31:56.000 --> 00:32:05.440
What are some of the uh kind of trends or insights that you're hearing about from your Alaire builders about their home buyers?
00:32:05.680 --> 00:32:17.920
I'm going to assume it's resiliency and health and wellness and energy independence and those kinds of things, but uh anything more nuanced within those categories or anything else you're seeing that's uh of interest to you?
00:32:18.640 --> 00:32:24.480
Well, uh yeah, and I mean I think it does fit within with with within that range that you just spoke about, Sarah.
00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:33.279
But uh, you know, as I said a few minutes ago, we like to understand what is your lifestyle, and and that's very important to today's consumer.
00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:41.359
And your young professionals are uh they're focused much more on health and wellness and and balance, uh, right?
00:32:41.519 --> 00:32:46.240
And so some some of us who who grew up being workaholics and that's the way that worked.
00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:54.960
Um, now they're looking for more balance and uh a connection uh to their community, a connection to uh to to nature.
00:32:55.200 --> 00:33:01.519
And uh when they are coming to us, uh they have a pretty good idea of what they're looking for.
00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:10.480
And our job is to uh try to engineer uh that solution as close as we can with their budget, of course, uh into how they want to live.
00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:17.200
And uh the consumer, you know, again, today is is very different than it was pre-COVID, obviously.
00:33:17.359 --> 00:33:20.640
Um, you know, we saw some incredible changes in COVID.
00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:24.799
Everybody was stuck at home and said, this house is not working for me anymore.
00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:28.799
You know, we need a second office or we need a playroom or whatever it was.
00:33:29.119 --> 00:33:47.839
And I think that experience, whether you're talking about young professionals who are now at the place where they're they're they're wanting to build their first custom home or they're wanting to take on, uh they're moving up and they want to do a major renovation on their home, uh, they want to make sure it matches their lifestyle.
00:33:47.920 --> 00:33:59.359
And so uh the upfront work to understand who they are, uh, how they live, what they're trying to achieve in life, not just at your home, uh, is going to continue to be more and more important.
00:33:59.440 --> 00:34:01.599
And we see it and hear it every day.
00:34:01.920 --> 00:34:02.400
Yeah.
00:34:02.559 --> 00:34:10.800
Uh something that I like to say right now is that um homebuyers really have stopped buying square footage.
00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:14.000
They stopped buying square footage a long time, you know, several years ago.
00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:24.079
I think even before the pandemic, when millennials started uh entering in the housing market and kind of brought their values with them as they were making purchase decisions.
00:34:24.320 --> 00:34:26.639
And now they're buying a lived experience.
00:34:26.719 --> 00:34:39.679
And so talking about price per square foot now has become maybe not irrelevant because price is certainly, you know, a major factor in especially a home buying decision, given the price point of it.
00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:50.719
But there's so much more to the conversation that just gets missed if we're just looking at that price per square foot, which tells you how big a house is and what it costs today, and nothing about that lived experience.
00:34:50.960 --> 00:34:55.679
So I think that um your comments are are very astute and of course spot on.
00:34:56.159 --> 00:34:56.559
Yes.
00:34:56.800 --> 00:34:58.719
I mean, you know, you think about it, Sarah.
00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:04.000
It's like uh you ask, well, how much does a bag of groceries cost, or how much is it worth?
00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:08.000
And it's like, well, you know, it depends on what's inside that.
00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:11.199
And healthier food does tend to cost more.
00:35:11.440 --> 00:35:29.280
Um, but again, that's a that's a decision if you're making to eat, uh, make that you're making to eat healthier and to live healthier, uh, likely, not always, but likely means that you're gonna have lower costs in other parts of your life, such as healthcare costs and doctor bills and things of that nature, right?
00:35:29.519 --> 00:35:35.519
So um, yeah, it's you know, people always ask, well, how much, you know, how much is this going to cost?
00:35:35.679 --> 00:35:38.079
And uh, you know, that's always been an analogy.
00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:40.320
It's like, well, what's a bag of groceries cost?
00:35:40.480 --> 00:35:41.760
And you know.
00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:42.960
Yep.
00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:43.920
Um, all right.
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:49.199
So, Rob, I've got two more questions that I ask all of my podcast guests before we wrap up the episode.
00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:54.000
First, when you hear the concept value per square foot, what does that mean to you?
00:35:54.880 --> 00:36:18.079
Uh that means both lifestyle uh attunement um as well as uh long-term viability of not just the structure itself, but the value that I will continue to see as my life uh and my family's life continues to evolve.
00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:20.800
So I I for me I that that's it.
00:36:20.880 --> 00:36:23.199
I think everybody would have a unique answer on that.
00:36:23.840 --> 00:36:24.800
Indeed, they do.
00:36:25.039 --> 00:36:27.920
It's fun to listen to everybody's responses.
00:36:28.159 --> 00:36:38.159
And then my final question is if you could share one thing with our audience that might change the way that they value the world around them, what would it be?
00:36:38.719 --> 00:36:41.599
Wow, that is a great question.
00:36:42.800 --> 00:36:45.519
Uh Dr.
00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:53.280
Wayne Dyer once had a line that I've tried to live by and I try to repeat it as much as I can.
00:36:53.360 --> 00:36:58.079
Uh, and that is change the way you look at things, and the things you look at change.
00:36:58.639 --> 00:37:09.440
And so um we all have a choice every day uh to to to see maybe a lot of the division and and and the things that are happening in our world today.
00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:18.320
Uh and and it'll be easy to let that blind you to the incredible good work that people are out there doing that maybe nobody is seeing.
00:37:18.400 --> 00:37:27.920
Uh, and so my personal advice is to uh step back and say, well, if I looked at this differently, would it start looking differently to me?
00:37:28.960 --> 00:37:29.760
I love that.
00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:31.440
Joy creates joy.
00:37:31.679 --> 00:37:32.079
Yes.
00:37:32.239 --> 00:37:32.559
Yes.
00:37:32.800 --> 00:37:39.119
Well, Rob, thank you so much for um the generosity of your time and your insights today.
00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:45.679
Thank you also for working with us on the Vision House Asheville with uh Alaire Asheville Red Tree.
00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:53.760
We're so excited to watch that project unfold as it spotlights wellness architecture, resiliency, and value per square foot.
00:37:53.840 --> 00:37:56.960
Those are kind of the three main pillars that we're focused on with that project.
00:37:57.199 --> 00:38:06.719
And thank you just for um leading such a um a charismatic and um compassionate team uh as you do.
00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:15.599
The everyone that we've met from a lair is just a wonderful individual and um just seems like they're all committed to a similar mission and vision.
00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:17.199
So kudos to you as a leader.
00:38:17.360 --> 00:38:19.519
Um and thank you again for joining me today.
00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:20.400
Well, thank you.
00:38:20.559 --> 00:38:24.559
We're very proud to be partners with you and uh thank you again for your time today.
00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:25.599
Wonderful.
00:38:25.760 --> 00:38:29.440
Uh thanks to all of you for watching another episode of the valuation metric.
00:38:29.599 --> 00:38:41.519
If this conversation moved you, please share it with anyone that makes decisions about how we design or build or live in our homes so that we can start to value them a little bit differently.
00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:46.960
If you want to learn more about Alair, you can learn at where's the best place to go, Rob?
00:38:47.119 --> 00:38:48.000
Alair.com?
00:38:48.320 --> 00:38:49.360
Alairhomes.com.
00:38:49.840 --> 00:38:50.800
Okay, wonderful.
00:38:51.039 --> 00:38:54.000
And um, until next time, thanks everyone.
00:38:54.239 --> 00:38:58.159
And let's continue to measure what we actually value.
00:38:58.559 --> 00:39:02.320
Before you go, download and subscribe to the podcast wherever you get your podcasts.
00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:08.079
And for daily coverage on sustainability, housing, and the future of home building, visit greenbuildermedia.com.
00:39:08.239 --> 00:39:11.280
That's where we're tracking the trends and shaping what comes next.
