Reflections on Life Before and After the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) | The Game Plan Episode 15

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Hello everyone, this is Eric Harris with The
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Game Plan at Disability Rights California. We're
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super excited to have two amazing guests for
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this episode on the ADA, the 36th anniversary
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of the ADA, the Americans with Disabilities Act.
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We had Tom Olin, who is an amazing leader and
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advocate. And then we also had Anita Cameron,
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who's a fantastic leader. Both of these individuals
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are elders in the disability movement and disability
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community, have been doing great. work for a
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really long time tom is a photojournalist who
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we got to talk to a little bit about the importance
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of photojournalism and then anita is an activist
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who has been in the movement for decades and
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decades and talks a lot about her experience
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as a black disabled woman especially in decades
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past in the 70s and 80s and what that experience
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was like so hope you all enjoy this wonderful
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episode. So welcome everyone to another episode
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of the Game Plan Podcast with Disability Rights
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California. My name is Eric Harris and we have
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an amazing special guest for this episode, Tom
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Olin, who will tell us a lot about... his background
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and his journey in the disability space. We're
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so lucky to have you, Tom. Thanks so much for
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joining us. Well, thank you. And I really love
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being a part of Disability Rights California.
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Tom, can you tell us a little bit about your
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connection to the disability? community, to the
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disability movement. You've been in the space
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for a long time. Yeah, well, I have dyslexia,
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so I was always put into a special room or special
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seats or slow learners or, you know, the dummy
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class or whatever, you know, it was called. But,
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and that was an elementary school where that
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started. By the time I got into junior high and
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high school i could figure out you know enough
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that i almost forgot i had dyslexia you know
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i just did audio stuff and you know i made it
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work for me and i actually was accepted into
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a college and then found out the first semester
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that they didn't have any programs for me and
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i had to write and do things that i hadn't done
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and i had to drop out But in dropping out, what
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was really interesting was that I ended up working
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in the rehab hospital in Grand Rapids, Michigan.
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And that was the first time I got to be with
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FISDIS and other disabilities. I was in a floor
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ward that was in my own age. So that was around...
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18 years old, 18, 19 years old. And, and it was
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definitely eye opening. And I really got to some
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of those, some of the people that were, you know,
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there as, as patients as such are still friends
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with me. Well, I should say I've only died right
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now. But one of the patients was Diane Coleman.
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Now, if you know Diane Coleman, she ended up
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doing Not Dead Yet. It was some of the early
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attorneys in the ADAPT world. And I actually...
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Got to meet her a couple of times after the rehab
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space. I mean, that was a high drama. People
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came in with traumatic injuries, from traumatic
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injuries, and it was like, I either want to die
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or I'm going to get through this. So it was a
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pretty emotional diagram. how people looked at
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people with disabilities, how people with disabilities,
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you know, what they thought they were going to
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have out there. High drama. And I really enjoyed
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it. That's just me. So I ended up kind of going
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outside. Going off the grid for about 10 years
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after that in the mountains of the Ozarks. And
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then I ended up coming out. And ended up on an
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island in Brazil. And no one spoke English. And
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so I finally was talking to myself to hear English,
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you know. It was quite interesting. What was
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interesting, it was like a meditation. I got
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to ask, I figured, oh, I can ask myself questions
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and then answer myself. We don't have time nowadays
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to do that at all. And so I asked myself those
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questions. What are you on the earth for? What's
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your plan to do next? the path up until now brought
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you and where does it look like it's going? And
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I ended up saying, ah, you know, I really wanted
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to get back into disability somehow. And so it
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was kind of funny. I got to say, okay, where
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on the earth do you want to go to do that or
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pursue that path? And I said, Berkeley. One question
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that I have, photojournalism is a space that
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you got into. And we haven't, you know, so far
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we've done this podcast for about a year and
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we haven't interviewed anybody who's a photojournalist.
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Can you just talk a little bit about the importance
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of photojournalism as a tool for the disability
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rights movement? Yeah, so it's changed. That
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tool has changed. And we're kind of grappling
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with it right now, again. In the beginning, when
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I was doing this, I mean, I was taking pictures
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and they ended up in a lot of the organizations,
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bulletins. They didn't have webpages back there,
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so it was always like a newsletter, you know.
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And I always came to, you know, if they wanted
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to pay me, great, but I always gave. I gave myself
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away. And I'm really glad. I really, when they
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say give and you might get tenfold back. And
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it really was like that and still is like that.
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People still remember me, you know, giving their
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organizations photos. But the importance was,
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and the photos is so different from writing,
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you know, people. Until people sometimes see
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a photo, they don't believe the writing. I remember
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in Brazil, we had magazines back then, back in
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the 70s and the 80s, and to the 90s. It was late
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70s, 80s, and then the 90s, and they kind of
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went away. when big social media came about.
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We really don't have those magazines anymore.
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And these are magazines that edited what was
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going on. There's no magazine. There's some social
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media that kind of does that, but not like...
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And it doesn't have the photos like that. And
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when you're talking with community, if we're
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talking community, there's many ways of looking
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at it. What's the emphasis? What's your venue?
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Where does the photos go to and why? And in the
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beginning, when the movement happened, what's
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happening? And there was the IL movement. And
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then they had the disability rights movement.
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And they intercepted at times. And a lot of the
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players are the same players. But especially
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when it came to disability rights, people saw
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pictures that they could not believe that disabled
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people could do. Right. Right. Really night and
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day. I mean, I can remember back then in elementary
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school, and I don't know, we had the weekly readers
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and always showed, you know, what was happening
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around the United States. And my phone was probably
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the first time that kids got to see the power
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of people with disabilities. Wow. The Jerry Lewis
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thing that was going on, you know. Right. So
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that was very important. And to get it into places
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where elementary schools and things like that.
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And I also, in L .A., I also worked for the L
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.I. Unified as an aide in special ed. And I got
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to bring my photo books and show the kids. And
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I remember one kid. And he was in this one, and
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I was a sub in different places, so I got to
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go all over the place. Nice. It's one elementary
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school that the kid, I showed him the book. It
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was like, it was a line of people with disabilities,
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about 100 or more. And he just looked at me.
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I didn't know there were that many people just
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in chairs in the world. Man. You know, like,
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it was just, and that's, so that was the early
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days of disability photography. You know, people
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got to see things different in a way. Well, and
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you've been around, you've seen it all. You've
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been able to take photos of a bunch of different
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major events and major things. Is there one or
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maybe a couple of moments where you're doing
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your work and taking photos and just recognizing,
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wow, this is really some powerful stuff, even
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all the things that you've seen? That's kind
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of a funny question. Because we're trying to
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grow a movement. And so there are, you know,
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people will say, oh, it's a capital crawl photo.
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My favorite ones were the people that were on
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the front lines that came out of the institution
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and said, hey, you know, I want to be on the
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front line. You know, I'll save up my SSI money.
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I'll go out and fundraise. you know, to get to
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those places. During the big ADAPT movement,
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that came up to the ADA and, you know, got the
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ADA passed. To me, that was more, here people
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came out of fucking institutions, you know, and
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said, I want to go because I have people back
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in the institutions that need to get out. To
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me, photographing their empowerment. was what
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I loved. But I could also take photos. The other
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part of that was also how does the movement rise?
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How does the movement connect? And when people
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got to see connection of different places, the
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adapt went to different cities all over the United
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States plus in Canada. And with hundreds and
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hundreds of people. And you don't see that anymore.
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And you don't see, you know, people forget that
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even before the ADA happened, over a thousand
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people with disabilities were put in jail. You
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know, that's something that... It's incredible.
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It doesn't happen. I mean, it really doesn't
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happen as much anymore. I mean, back then, sometimes
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you went in jail for five days. And you can imagine
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what some of the people, especially the quads,
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you know, that was almost life -threatening.
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Right. Absolutely. We had magazines. We had the
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Disability Rag. We had the Mouth magazine. We
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had a couple. We had. Cindy Jones's magazine,
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which I can't remember what the name was right
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now. But we had what was happening, especially
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with the mouth and disability rag. I worked with
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a mouth, so I can say this is that what we did
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is that the rag would produce their magazine
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one month. We would do the next month so that
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things were, you know, people could read just
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pretty much. what was happening now to now. I
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mean, now it's like every day, but you can't
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really see what's happening in the disability
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mode every day. You would have to go to 15 different
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organizations' websites to find it. It's really
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impossible. Back then, you could be sitting on
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your john or whatever, reading one of the magazines,
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and probably a thousand other people around the
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United States was doing the same thing. And people
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thought, people were close to the movement that
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way. People felt like they were in a movement.
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It was totally, you know, we don't have that
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kind of, and it was a movement that you trusted,
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you know. And so that was, it was a whole different.
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time and world that photojournalism could come
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into play. It was, I remember our magazine, The
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Mouth, you know, the White House, they got like
00:15:57.279 --> 00:16:05.340
seven copies or more. It was, you know, people
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that were in the know needed to have those magazines.
00:16:08.679 --> 00:16:11.879
to know what was happening because they weren't
00:16:11.879 --> 00:16:17.379
saying, oh, this is a great administration or
00:16:17.379 --> 00:16:20.899
even this is a great sale. No, we said if there
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was a bad sale, people would hear about it. If
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there were bad players in the administration,
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we would say something. We didn't have, actually,
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we didn't have, and that's why we probably don't
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have it anymore, but we didn't have, any kind
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of spot um advertising uh around you know it
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was totally a little different yeah yeah wow
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oh well that's fantastic and very fascinating
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um that you mentioned the ada bus tours um we're
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gonna kind of shift forward a bit towards ada
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bus tours kind of around the times of trying
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to get the ADA across the finish line, passing
00:17:08.210 --> 00:17:11.549
the ADA. What were the ADA bus tours like? Well,
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the ADA bus tour came after the ADA was passed.
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But on the first ADA bus tour, it's still the
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organization that helped start that was ADA Watch,
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but Jim Ward still was doing that. And, well,
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we're at a friend's house with a whole collection
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of us disability people that wanted to do things.
00:17:46.930 --> 00:17:51.329
But Jim and his wife and kids and I, we got two
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buses. And what we did was we went around to
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every state, every state. And we had to fly in.
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We had to leave the buses to fly into Hawaii
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and Alaska. But other than that, we hit every
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state. And it's the same what happened with our
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father of ADA. Give me his name. Justin Dart.
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Justin Dart, yes, of course. Oh, my God. Well,
00:18:27.900 --> 00:18:33.869
anyhow, he did these. ADA diaries. And he went
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around and collected names and collected signatures.
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So we did that too, because at that time, the
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ADA was in trouble. 2003, 2004. And so we went
00:18:47.910 --> 00:18:51.789
around, got names and everything like that. And
00:18:51.789 --> 00:18:58.009
what was really interesting is that it was really
00:18:58.009 --> 00:19:02.929
great. We went to capitals, we went to Mexico
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fairs, we, you know, went all over the place.
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And it was like, there aren't too many things
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like that in the disability world, you know,
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tying people together in different places. And,
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you know, it was iconic, very iconic. So there
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were people that would drive their family to
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wherever we were just to see the bus. And the
00:19:37.240 --> 00:19:41.539
bus was kind of neat. The bus was covered in
00:19:41.539 --> 00:19:47.900
my photos. Oh, wow. And so at different places
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on the bus, it was like a 35 -footer. So it was
00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:57.619
a pretty big bus. There might be a picture of
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protest stuff. People would, okay, I want my
00:20:01.680 --> 00:20:04.240
photo here, you know, or, you know, things like
00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:09.859
that all around it. It was just something else.
00:20:10.220 --> 00:20:15.619
And you'd drive and people would, you know, everyone
00:20:15.619 --> 00:20:20.539
loved it, you know. Wow, yeah. Then in 2015,
00:20:20.859 --> 00:20:26.410
I did the same thing. I got the bus back. and
00:20:26.410 --> 00:20:32.650
did the tour again or did different tours with
00:20:32.650 --> 00:20:39.230
that. And at that time, well, then I did other
00:20:39.230 --> 00:20:42.369
things, building registration with the bus. Right,
00:20:42.470 --> 00:20:50.319
right. A lot of disaster stuff. would talk about
00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:53.660
history. I had a lot of photos that I got to
00:20:53.660 --> 00:20:57.599
take out into different rooms and into different
00:20:57.599 --> 00:21:02.440
venues like auditoriums and things like that
00:21:02.440 --> 00:21:04.640
that could be put around. Independent living
00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:09.400
centers or special ed schools. That was a really
00:21:09.400 --> 00:21:16.640
good one. I remember going to 360, which is a
00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:20.440
very large independent living center. um in phoenix
00:21:20.440 --> 00:21:24.660
arizona oh yeah oh yeah yeah and um they brought
00:21:24.660 --> 00:21:28.460
in um i always you know whatever the thing was
00:21:28.460 --> 00:21:30.740
i should make sure that you have group homes
00:21:30.740 --> 00:21:33.019
you have everyone that's connected with disability
00:21:33.019 --> 00:21:37.119
that can come come the thing about the the um
00:21:37.119 --> 00:21:40.500
trip too you know i would um park wherever the
00:21:40.500 --> 00:21:43.049
person people were the organization were and
00:21:43.049 --> 00:21:46.390
they'd bring their app and whatever and those
00:21:46.390 --> 00:21:49.230
you know those photos are still hanging on walls
00:21:49.230 --> 00:21:53.170
you know um and it's kind of tight it was like
00:21:53.170 --> 00:21:59.109
a um you know a um a town crier you go from one
00:21:59.109 --> 00:22:03.170
place to another place and and it was always
00:22:03.170 --> 00:22:07.930
interesting that um you could go 100 miles and
00:22:07.930 --> 00:22:10.190
people didn't know what they were doing from
00:22:10.190 --> 00:22:14.859
one um geographic area to another and what great
00:22:14.859 --> 00:22:18.420
things were happening around i got to you know
00:22:18.420 --> 00:22:20.619
talk about great things that are happening all
00:22:20.619 --> 00:22:26.279
over wow wow well um you know one question that
00:22:26.279 --> 00:22:29.900
i have for you um you were able to kind of witness
00:22:29.900 --> 00:22:35.880
pre -ada post -ada and then all of the things
00:22:35.880 --> 00:22:38.380
that happened afterwards what are some of the
00:22:38.380 --> 00:22:41.039
things that you would say are like The things
00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:43.799
that really stand out, like when you noticed
00:22:43.799 --> 00:22:48.380
pre -ADA versus post -ADA. Because I was doing
00:22:48.380 --> 00:22:54.660
the bus tour, you know, it was so funny because
00:22:54.660 --> 00:23:00.779
I'd go to the towns that were towns and small
00:23:00.779 --> 00:23:03.859
villages and things like that, go through them.
00:23:04.059 --> 00:23:07.359
And before the ADA, you know, there was no disability
00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:13.460
or anything. You know, and then one of the places
00:23:13.460 --> 00:23:16.660
that driving and always had parking lots that
00:23:16.660 --> 00:23:20.980
were big enough for the for the bus, you know,
00:23:20.980 --> 00:23:23.420
I'd be at Walmart, you know, and you go into
00:23:23.420 --> 00:23:28.420
Walmart and there are people just the the, you
00:23:28.420 --> 00:23:30.680
know, aisles were wide. You know, it was just
00:23:30.680 --> 00:23:33.220
it was it was kind of like, oh, my God, people.
00:23:33.400 --> 00:23:35.119
That's where a lot of people in the county would
00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:39.220
meet or. I think the greatest thing was you go
00:23:39.220 --> 00:23:43.559
through a small town and sometimes, or it would
00:23:43.559 --> 00:23:46.779
be the county seat, you know, and they'd have
00:23:46.779 --> 00:23:50.880
the big courthouse in the middle. And then, you
00:23:50.880 --> 00:23:53.200
know, it would be a block of just grass around
00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:59.880
it and benches, you know. And before you just
00:23:59.880 --> 00:24:03.920
see the old. Some of the old guys whittling whatever
00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:08.480
email. And the next time, after the ADA, there
00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:13.180
were accessible sidewalks and stuff like that.
00:24:13.380 --> 00:24:16.180
And there were people in wheelchairs that were
00:24:16.180 --> 00:24:19.700
by the benches doing the same things as other
00:24:19.700 --> 00:24:25.319
people used to do. And I got to in the second
00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:30.829
part, one of the things. there were a lot of
00:24:30.829 --> 00:24:34.170
um i would stop at a city you know for a city
00:24:34.170 --> 00:24:37.150
and there'd be the mayor and the dugout and there'd
00:24:37.150 --> 00:24:39.430
be and they would always talk about what they've
00:24:39.430 --> 00:24:41.970
been doing you know what what's what's happening
00:24:41.970 --> 00:24:46.369
and and you'd ask you know well how's your building
00:24:46.369 --> 00:24:49.049
you know inspectors and stuff like that or you
00:24:49.049 --> 00:24:51.630
know because that that would really show me where
00:24:51.630 --> 00:24:56.579
they're at you know and people Things were getting
00:24:56.579 --> 00:25:02.599
done and they were proud of them. Nowadays, I
00:25:02.599 --> 00:25:06.539
don't know if they'd be proud. Back then, things
00:25:06.539 --> 00:25:12.519
were working really well. What would you like
00:25:12.519 --> 00:25:17.259
to see? As you know, there are advocates all
00:25:17.259 --> 00:25:20.579
over the country who might be tuning in and want
00:25:20.579 --> 00:25:24.769
to hear different thoughts and ideas. What would
00:25:24.769 --> 00:25:27.589
you say you'd like to see going forward when
00:25:27.589 --> 00:25:31.150
it comes to disability rights, the ADA, the disability
00:25:31.150 --> 00:25:34.250
rights movement? Like, are there any things that
00:25:34.250 --> 00:25:37.930
come to mind that you would just love to see
00:25:37.930 --> 00:25:41.869
in the next 20 years or 30 years? That could
00:25:41.869 --> 00:25:47.490
be all we have to show. The thing is, is that,
00:25:47.509 --> 00:25:49.789
you know, I got to see the history of stuff.
00:25:50.119 --> 00:25:54.059
And the history is always an amazing thing. And
00:25:54.059 --> 00:25:58.480
I've worked with the YLF leadership forums in
00:25:58.480 --> 00:26:04.859
different states. And the youth enjoy the history.
00:26:05.039 --> 00:26:09.039
It's an old saying, you can't go far unless you
00:26:09.039 --> 00:26:13.880
know where you've been. I'm not saying that what
00:26:13.880 --> 00:26:17.799
is reported should be exactly what you'd be doing.
00:26:18.700 --> 00:26:21.299
You know, knowing that other people have done
00:26:21.299 --> 00:26:26.599
different things that should open you up to whatever
00:26:26.599 --> 00:26:32.440
maybe you can do. So I think that's really, really
00:26:32.440 --> 00:26:35.539
important. And definitely making sure that the
00:26:35.539 --> 00:26:41.319
youth are, you know, I still, I call myself an
00:26:41.319 --> 00:26:47.660
elder. And there's just too many. people that,
00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:51.180
you know, should be letting the youth rise up
00:26:51.180 --> 00:26:54.279
a little bit more, putting them into places where
00:26:54.279 --> 00:26:57.680
there is a ladder effect and they can, you know,
00:26:57.700 --> 00:27:01.000
rise up into different positions. That's right.
00:27:01.160 --> 00:27:05.819
Really important. And I think we just have to
00:27:05.819 --> 00:27:10.359
get back to who we, you know, like I was talking
00:27:10.359 --> 00:27:17.240
about the two differences of the movements. One
00:27:17.240 --> 00:27:20.700
was making, you know, the community accessible.
00:27:21.079 --> 00:27:26.539
And that's important. And the other one is we
00:27:26.539 --> 00:27:29.920
still haven't got, we still don't work on people
00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:33.799
that are institutionalized. You know, we don't
00:27:33.799 --> 00:27:36.500
work in the prisons hardly, you know, and yet
00:27:36.500 --> 00:27:39.799
there are more people with disabilities than
00:27:39.799 --> 00:27:44.579
not in a prison or jail. You know, we got so
00:27:44.579 --> 00:27:48.779
many people still on. in guardianship. And the
00:27:48.779 --> 00:27:53.839
reason, and the thing is, is that the only reasons
00:27:53.839 --> 00:27:56.299
are in guardianship because we don't have the
00:27:56.299 --> 00:28:00.859
services that mitigates that. Or they don't have,
00:28:00.940 --> 00:28:04.160
we have seals that can mitigate that, but judges
00:28:04.160 --> 00:28:09.700
don't know those things, you know. We still have,
00:28:09.700 --> 00:28:13.759
you know, DD institutions. We still have, you
00:28:13.759 --> 00:28:17.410
know, We have a lot of people that we have to
00:28:17.410 --> 00:28:22.369
realize that they are a part of this. And that's
00:28:22.369 --> 00:28:26.089
at the very beginning that we knew that. Now
00:28:26.089 --> 00:28:29.670
it's just like, oh, let's get the funding to
00:28:29.670 --> 00:28:33.049
do this. Money has come in, corporate has come
00:28:33.049 --> 00:28:36.150
in, and corporate is taking over our disability
00:28:36.150 --> 00:28:39.569
services. So that's a whole other world too.
00:28:44.079 --> 00:28:49.160
Yeah, there's a lot to do still. No, you're exactly
00:28:49.160 --> 00:28:51.940
right, Tom. And I'm really glad that you brought
00:28:51.940 --> 00:28:57.299
up the institutionalization. And whether it's
00:28:57.299 --> 00:29:01.059
jails, prisons, immigration detention facilities,
00:29:01.500 --> 00:29:06.500
whether it's mental health state hospitals, whether
00:29:06.500 --> 00:29:11.319
it's DD institutions, those are the spaces that
00:29:11.319 --> 00:29:15.720
our advocacy is needed. most and i'm glad that
00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:17.980
you brought that up because it's happening all
00:29:17.980 --> 00:29:20.500
over the country including in california unfortunately
00:29:20.500 --> 00:29:25.519
yeah you got the good care plan um care courts
00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:31.339
right now the only time i got arrested was i'm
00:29:31.339 --> 00:29:33.539
really good at not getting arrested at actions
00:29:33.539 --> 00:29:36.900
because the thing is is that if you get arrested
00:29:36.900 --> 00:29:43.670
then you can't take photos anymore At one point,
00:29:43.750 --> 00:29:48.269
I was up in New York, Syracuse, I think it was
00:29:48.269 --> 00:29:52.970
in Syracuse, and there was a demonstration at
00:29:52.970 --> 00:29:59.349
a mental health facility in a hospital. And I
00:29:59.349 --> 00:30:02.170
just said, okay, it's time for me to get arrested.
00:30:02.329 --> 00:30:07.359
I said, here's my camera, take it away. After
00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:09.980
a while, after seeing everyone getting arrested
00:30:09.980 --> 00:30:12.920
for years and years and years, you feel kind
00:30:12.920 --> 00:30:16.380
of funny not being arrested. I want to be included.
00:30:17.319 --> 00:30:25.460
Same way with Evan Kemp. And Justin Dart Jr.,
00:30:25.460 --> 00:30:28.259
at the very end of their lines, they were trying
00:30:28.259 --> 00:30:34.000
to go to an adapt action and say, okay, put us
00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:38.420
where we can get arrested. They never got arrested,
00:30:38.579 --> 00:30:43.599
but that was one of the things that they wanted
00:30:43.599 --> 00:30:47.599
to do. That is fantastic. Thank you so much,
00:30:47.740 --> 00:30:51.970
Tom, for joining us. giving us so much history
00:30:51.970 --> 00:30:56.049
and knowledge and ways to move forward. So we
00:30:56.049 --> 00:31:01.690
really appreciate all that you do. Welcome everybody
00:31:01.690 --> 00:31:04.690
to The Game Plan with Disability Rights California.
00:31:05.069 --> 00:31:09.509
My name is Eric Harris and I am with Anita Cameron,
00:31:09.710 --> 00:31:14.630
who is just a fantastic leader in our movement,
00:31:14.849 --> 00:31:18.869
historic leader in our movement. We're so lucky
00:31:18.869 --> 00:31:25.490
to have her. Welcome, Anita. Thank you. It's
00:31:25.490 --> 00:31:27.990
great to be here. If you could, because I know
00:31:27.990 --> 00:31:31.589
some of the folks who might be tuning in don't
00:31:31.589 --> 00:31:34.170
know what ADAPT is. They might, of course, be
00:31:34.170 --> 00:31:36.230
able to Google it and look it up. But can you
00:31:36.230 --> 00:31:40.109
just let folks know what ADAPT is and why it's
00:31:40.109 --> 00:31:45.890
so important? So ADAPT. is a national grassroots
00:31:45.890 --> 00:31:52.269
disability rights group that fights for disability
00:31:52.269 --> 00:32:04.349
rights. It was officially formed in 1983. I joined
00:32:04.349 --> 00:32:15.700
in 1986. But the folks who made up the To talk
00:32:15.700 --> 00:32:22.339
about ADAPT, you have to go back to 1978 and
00:32:22.339 --> 00:32:30.680
probably before. But in 1978, on July 5th and
00:32:30.680 --> 00:32:36.240
6th, there were 19 people gathered at the corner,
00:32:36.420 --> 00:32:42.740
the southwest corner of Colfax and Broadway in
00:32:42.740 --> 00:32:46.259
Denver, Colorado. And they were trying to get
00:32:46.259 --> 00:32:50.220
on the bus. Now, these folks were all young folks
00:32:50.220 --> 00:32:53.920
with disabilities. Most of them, they had come
00:32:53.920 --> 00:32:58.359
out of a nursing home about four years prior.
00:32:58.539 --> 00:33:01.940
Most of them had come out of the single nursing
00:33:01.940 --> 00:33:12.299
home and had moved into the community and saw
00:33:12.299 --> 00:33:15.430
that disabled people still couldn't get around,
00:33:15.630 --> 00:33:20.029
couldn't get into buildings, couldn't get on
00:33:20.029 --> 00:33:27.450
buses or anything. And so those folks began meeting
00:33:27.450 --> 00:33:32.210
with the bus companies to say, put a lift on
00:33:32.210 --> 00:33:34.869
these buses, put some way that people in wheelchairs
00:33:34.869 --> 00:33:37.710
can get on the bus. And our regional transportation
00:33:37.710 --> 00:33:42.990
district kept saying no. And so finally, You
00:33:42.990 --> 00:33:47.309
know, on July 5th and 6th, 19 folks, they would
00:33:47.309 --> 00:33:50.670
be known as the Gang of 19, got out of their
00:33:50.670 --> 00:33:52.750
wheelchairs and lay in the street for two days.
00:33:54.269 --> 00:33:58.869
Fight for lifts on buses. That was a disability
00:33:58.869 --> 00:34:03.890
shot for around the world. And that was also
00:34:03.890 --> 00:34:09.670
the beginnings of the foundings of ADAPT. Until
00:34:09.670 --> 00:34:15.070
I joined ADAPT. at the age of 21. And I joined
00:34:15.070 --> 00:34:19.550
in Chicago. And at that time, ADAPT stood for
00:34:19.550 --> 00:34:23.550
American Disabled for Accessible Public Transportation.
00:34:24.710 --> 00:34:32.929
And we would go, we did, yes, block buses, chained
00:34:32.929 --> 00:34:35.710
ourselves to buses, handcuffed ourselves to buses.
00:34:36.570 --> 00:34:44.179
We blocked buildings. Tribal, the American Public
00:34:44.179 --> 00:34:49.940
Transit Association, the Urban Mass Transit Association.
00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:52.900
We followed these folks around the country and
00:34:52.900 --> 00:34:58.340
protested at their conventions. Wow. And, you
00:34:58.340 --> 00:35:01.219
know, and obviously lots of us got arrested and
00:35:01.219 --> 00:35:05.699
all. But, you know, we were, you know, obviously
00:35:05.699 --> 00:35:09.460
we were looking at, OK, other forms of action.
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:15.179
You know, like when the Americans with Disabilities
00:35:15.179 --> 00:35:22.360
Act was introduced and Justin Dart was going
00:35:22.360 --> 00:35:27.000
around the country doing his town halls. You
00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:31.099
know, I participated in some of those. Major
00:35:31.099 --> 00:35:34.360
Owens was going around doing his stuff. Do you
00:35:34.360 --> 00:35:36.300
know a lot of people don't even know who Major
00:35:36.300 --> 00:35:41.610
Owens was? I don't know who Major Owens was and,
00:35:41.809 --> 00:35:45.349
you know, his involvement and what he did and
00:35:45.349 --> 00:35:48.409
what he used, you know, his power to do in the
00:35:48.409 --> 00:35:53.690
ADA. You know, how that was his most proudest
00:35:53.690 --> 00:35:56.949
achievement and how even then he was still erased,
00:35:57.269 --> 00:36:01.389
you know, from the story. So, you know, we were,
00:36:01.389 --> 00:36:07.199
you know, we were doing all of that. You know,
00:36:07.219 --> 00:36:10.559
over the years, we were seeing the ADA get solved.
00:36:10.719 --> 00:36:14.099
Now, JAP, we were like, a lot of times people
00:36:14.099 --> 00:36:17.139
considered us like riffraff. They didn't even
00:36:17.139 --> 00:36:21.219
want to deal with us. We were considered militants
00:36:21.219 --> 00:36:25.460
and radicals. We were compared to the Black Panthers
00:36:25.460 --> 00:36:28.960
and ACT UP, which to me, those are badges of
00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:32.480
honor. So, hey, because I was involved with ACT
00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:36.800
UP. And we had ADAPT members who were Black Panthers.
00:36:37.079 --> 00:36:41.139
That's right. In fact, ADAPT was the only group
00:36:41.139 --> 00:36:44.760
that I had been involved with in all my social
00:36:44.760 --> 00:36:48.840
justice experience where I wasn't the only Black
00:36:48.840 --> 00:36:53.860
or I wasn't the only disabled or both. I wasn't
00:36:53.860 --> 00:36:58.019
the token. About half of us were Black. You know,
00:36:58.039 --> 00:37:02.389
a bunch of us Latina. A number of us queer. You
00:37:02.389 --> 00:37:07.010
know, ADAPT accepted it all. You know, ADAPT
00:37:07.010 --> 00:37:09.570
accepted all of us. We had Native Americans,
00:37:09.849 --> 00:37:13.190
Asians, Latinx, you name it, we had it in the
00:37:13.190 --> 00:37:17.090
DAPT. Trans folks and the most unlikely people
00:37:17.090 --> 00:37:21.449
in the DAPT, including myself, rose to leadership.
00:37:22.510 --> 00:37:26.550
And so, you know, we were looking, when we were
00:37:26.550 --> 00:37:31.670
seen, we felt like the ADA was in danger. I remember
00:37:31.670 --> 00:37:34.489
Wade Blank telling me, you know, man, we got
00:37:34.489 --> 00:37:38.269
to do something because if we don't, he said,
00:37:38.329 --> 00:37:40.809
we could be here three years from now still trying
00:37:40.809 --> 00:37:46.570
to figure stuff out. And so, you know, that was
00:37:46.570 --> 00:37:51.010
back in the days. ADAPT was very, very open.
00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:56.280
and talk openly about things. We would learn
00:37:56.280 --> 00:37:59.199
quickly not to do that because of police and
00:37:59.199 --> 00:38:09.300
all. But we decided that we were, we decided
00:38:09.300 --> 00:38:11.300
that we had to do something. That's how the Capitol
00:38:11.300 --> 00:38:15.179
Crawl came in. Adapt. Well, it's interesting.
00:38:15.719 --> 00:38:19.780
Yeah, absolutely. And it's interesting, Ms. Cameron,
00:38:19.840 --> 00:38:22.360
because I was going to ask you, you know, you,
00:38:23.409 --> 00:38:28.630
or an educated person, you know that to a certain
00:38:28.630 --> 00:38:35.190
extent, having so -called traditional educated
00:38:35.190 --> 00:38:38.789
folks involved is helpful, folks who can do the
00:38:38.789 --> 00:38:43.849
policy work, folks who can do the talking to
00:38:43.849 --> 00:38:46.789
elected officials and getting policy passed.
00:38:47.090 --> 00:38:52.289
But you also recognize that protest and being
00:38:52.909 --> 00:38:56.630
physically present and showing your frustration
00:38:56.630 --> 00:39:00.710
is also a big part of it, whether it's, you know,
00:39:00.710 --> 00:39:05.230
like ADAPT or the Black Panthers or other groups.
00:39:06.010 --> 00:39:09.650
So can you just talk a little bit about why both
00:39:09.650 --> 00:39:13.429
of those roles are important, that we need folks
00:39:13.429 --> 00:39:17.250
who are in politics and policy changing the laws,
00:39:17.409 --> 00:39:20.750
but we also need folks who are out there on the
00:39:20.750 --> 00:39:24.440
streets. making noise about what's going on?
00:39:25.099 --> 00:39:28.280
Well, actually, what a lot of people don't realize
00:39:28.280 --> 00:39:33.139
about ADAPT is by the time you see an ADAPT action,
00:39:33.340 --> 00:39:37.699
an ADAPT protest, meetings have been going on.
00:39:38.780 --> 00:39:45.320
Education has been going on. We have been talking
00:39:45.320 --> 00:39:49.820
to the politicians for the legislative. Bob Kafka
00:39:51.019 --> 00:39:57.800
He called what ADAPT does the pitch. He called
00:39:57.800 --> 00:40:02.699
it using the pitchfork method. I called it the
00:40:02.699 --> 00:40:07.539
multi -pronged effort so that protesting and
00:40:07.539 --> 00:40:12.280
direct action, that is the last thing. You want
00:40:12.280 --> 00:40:16.679
to start out with meeting the targets. You want
00:40:16.679 --> 00:40:21.460
to start out with educating, you know, You want
00:40:21.460 --> 00:40:25.860
to, you know, there's a legislative aspect. If
00:40:25.860 --> 00:40:28.320
you have to, and ADAPT has written legislation
00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:31.880
and whatnot, and I've actually helped in that.
00:40:32.900 --> 00:40:35.840
You know, sometimes it takes some legislative
00:40:35.840 --> 00:40:40.059
stuff. When we do this in ADAPT, we were prepared
00:40:40.059 --> 00:40:42.980
for the long run. We knew that it was going to
00:40:42.980 --> 00:40:46.780
take years, even decades. And it's been decades.
00:40:47.820 --> 00:40:50.699
And things, you know, still, you know, aren't.
00:40:50.760 --> 00:40:55.320
And so, you know, also like lawsuits, sometimes
00:40:55.320 --> 00:40:59.500
you got to sue them, you know. So there's a multi
00:40:59.500 --> 00:41:05.260
-pronged, for lack of better words, attack or
00:41:05.260 --> 00:41:12.340
approach in advocacy, you know, that by the time
00:41:12.340 --> 00:41:15.539
you see us, you know, blocking doors and chain
00:41:15.539 --> 00:41:19.920
to buses. We've already done all of the homework,
00:41:20.199 --> 00:41:23.440
the research, the meetings. We've been told so
00:41:23.440 --> 00:41:26.019
many times and we're just not going to take no
00:41:26.019 --> 00:41:30.079
anymore. And, you know, and then we decide, OK,
00:41:30.199 --> 00:41:33.500
it's time. It's time to hit the streets. And,
00:41:33.639 --> 00:41:36.440
you know, just like, you know, the folks with
00:41:36.440 --> 00:41:38.960
the civil rights movement. I mean, we are so
00:41:38.960 --> 00:41:44.039
committed to, you know, to fighting, you know.
00:41:44.409 --> 00:41:47.489
for disability rights that we, you know, are
00:41:47.489 --> 00:41:53.010
willing to get arrested. I've been arrested 140
00:41:53.010 --> 00:42:01.550
times in the DAP in 39 years of active involvement.
00:42:02.289 --> 00:42:07.849
You know, I've been doing this stuff for 44 years
00:42:07.849 --> 00:42:11.289
now, community organizing, you know, and whatnot.
00:42:16.280 --> 00:42:22.059
It's still, I mean, here it is 30, it's going
00:42:22.059 --> 00:42:28.099
to be 36 years post ADA. And we, you know, disabled
00:42:28.099 --> 00:42:33.420
people, we are still, we're still suffering injustice.
00:42:34.659 --> 00:42:39.099
I tell people all the time, you know, as much
00:42:39.099 --> 00:42:43.679
as I fought for the ADA and got arrested. did
00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:47.679
the Capitol crawl and got arrested in the rotunda,
00:42:47.760 --> 00:42:50.719
you know, the next day and went to jail and all
00:42:50.719 --> 00:42:54.659
of that, that the ADA is the floor. It is not
00:42:54.659 --> 00:42:59.059
the ceiling. That's right. I tell people the
00:42:59.059 --> 00:43:05.440
biggest thing that the ADA did not do for disabled
00:43:05.440 --> 00:43:12.719
people was guarantee us the civil right to live.
00:43:13.019 --> 00:43:15.360
in our communities with services and supports
00:43:15.360 --> 00:43:17.619
that we need. You know, disabled people, we still
00:43:17.619 --> 00:43:20.940
don't have the civil right to be in our communities.
00:43:22.559 --> 00:43:25.780
Due to what's known as the institutional bias,
00:43:26.480 --> 00:43:30.800
we can get put in nursing homes and whatnot,
00:43:31.239 --> 00:43:37.980
put in different places, you know, and all. Society
00:43:37.980 --> 00:43:43.800
is trained to see us, you know, as incompetent
00:43:43.800 --> 00:43:48.619
you know useless you know we don't even know
00:43:48.619 --> 00:43:54.119
you know when i was 19 um i was living in michigan
00:43:54.119 --> 00:44:00.219
um and i was living on my own and yeah once again
00:44:00.219 --> 00:44:03.659
my seizures just got out of control pretty bad
00:44:03.659 --> 00:44:09.059
um and so i was taken to hospital the town that
00:44:09.059 --> 00:44:12.940
i lived in was so tiny that we didn't have a
00:44:12.940 --> 00:44:18.019
hospital. And so the ambulance took me to Cadillac,
00:44:18.079 --> 00:44:22.059
which is 30 miles from where I live. And I was
00:44:22.059 --> 00:44:26.039
in the hospital for a week in Cadillac, Michigan,
00:44:26.239 --> 00:44:32.019
and getting the seizures controlled. And it seemed
00:44:32.019 --> 00:44:35.239
like things were, you know, okay. That seemed
00:44:35.239 --> 00:44:39.239
like I was stabilized and whatnot. And I began
00:44:39.239 --> 00:44:45.960
to ask to go home. And they wouldn't, no one
00:44:45.960 --> 00:44:49.860
would tell me anything if I was going home. And
00:44:49.860 --> 00:44:57.360
one day, the sheriff came and got me from the
00:44:57.360 --> 00:45:00.840
hospital. That's how I was discharged. And the
00:45:00.840 --> 00:45:06.820
sheriff took me. And I thought that I was going
00:45:06.820 --> 00:45:14.099
home. The sheriff took me to Traverse City, Michigan,
00:45:14.420 --> 00:45:25.500
400 miles away to the northeast. And I was taken
00:45:25.500 --> 00:45:34.380
to a psychiatric hospital. And I was taken before
00:45:34.380 --> 00:45:39.679
a judge who was attached to that hospital. I
00:45:39.679 --> 00:45:43.559
would later find that the hospital was 100 years
00:45:43.559 --> 00:45:52.659
old. And they told me that they were going to
00:45:52.659 --> 00:45:58.980
put me in this hospital because they said that
00:45:58.980 --> 00:46:02.699
I was a danger to myself because I wanted to
00:46:02.699 --> 00:46:06.139
go home. They said that there was no way that
00:46:06.139 --> 00:46:09.139
someone with my combination of disabilities could
00:46:09.139 --> 00:46:12.659
live independently and that me wanting to go
00:46:12.659 --> 00:46:16.659
home was harming myself. Now, I had been living
00:46:16.659 --> 00:46:22.119
independently. Right. Right. You know, but and
00:46:22.119 --> 00:46:27.059
so they said that up to 60 days is what they
00:46:27.059 --> 00:46:32.059
told me. The 60 days turned into eight and a
00:46:32.059 --> 00:46:36.380
half months. Wow. I was railroaded into a psychiatric
00:46:36.380 --> 00:46:40.800
institution simply because as a disabled person,
00:46:41.000 --> 00:46:45.139
I wanted to. Now, obviously, that turned around
00:46:45.139 --> 00:46:47.900
and did something to me. Trust and believe me.
00:46:48.360 --> 00:46:51.320
The psychiatric hospital that I was in, like
00:46:51.320 --> 00:46:53.719
I said, was 100 years old. And if you've ever
00:46:53.719 --> 00:46:56.119
seen or read the book, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's
00:46:56.119 --> 00:47:02.349
Nest, that was that hospital. There were rapes
00:47:02.349 --> 00:47:07.010
that happened, beatings and whatnot, including
00:47:07.010 --> 00:47:13.530
with myself. I was the only Black person in that
00:47:13.530 --> 00:47:23.809
hospital. And that had its own dynamic. You know,
00:47:23.909 --> 00:47:28.349
something that's interesting, you know, we were
00:47:28.349 --> 00:47:35.199
in California. And right now, whether it's, you
00:47:35.199 --> 00:47:40.079
know, hair court or, you know, the expansion
00:47:40.079 --> 00:47:44.159
of certain the expansion of the definition of
00:47:44.159 --> 00:47:49.539
gravely disabled conservatorships, all of those
00:47:49.539 --> 00:47:53.460
things are still happening. And they're happening
00:47:53.460 --> 00:47:58.460
at even more, you know, at rates. that are even
00:47:58.460 --> 00:48:01.800
higher than they've been. And the state is even
00:48:01.800 --> 00:48:04.019
expanding this. They want this to be easier.
00:48:04.320 --> 00:48:06.579
They want it to be easier to put people away
00:48:06.579 --> 00:48:10.500
and lock them up. And as you can imagine, Black
00:48:10.500 --> 00:48:14.480
people with disabilities are more likely to be
00:48:14.480 --> 00:48:17.340
disproportionately impacted by this. So if you
00:48:17.340 --> 00:48:20.239
could just kind of tie a knot on that, that'd
00:48:20.239 --> 00:48:28.079
be great. We are, right? I mean, and sadly, I
00:48:28.079 --> 00:48:31.980
mean, if you're looking at like homeless people,
00:48:32.199 --> 00:48:37.139
you know, who are the ones that they're, you
00:48:37.139 --> 00:48:39.000
know, and I think the thing about, you know,
00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:44.039
being Black and disabled is that oftentimes for
00:48:44.039 --> 00:48:47.260
a lot of us Black folks, our disabilities are
00:48:47.260 --> 00:48:50.440
the result of the racism or racist practices.
00:48:51.659 --> 00:48:54.579
you know, moms not having, you know, enough access
00:48:54.579 --> 00:48:57.480
to natal medicine, you know, and whatnot, Black
00:48:57.480 --> 00:49:01.219
moms, things of that nature. I mean, even if
00:49:01.219 --> 00:49:03.780
you look at school, you know, that prison, that
00:49:03.780 --> 00:49:07.000
school -to -prison pipeline, they're talking
00:49:07.000 --> 00:49:11.739
about Black kids. Because it's Black kids, you
00:49:11.739 --> 00:49:15.079
know, that are the ones, Black kids who are,
00:49:15.199 --> 00:49:19.519
you know, when I was in Washington, D .C., You
00:49:19.519 --> 00:49:21.800
know, I found out when I was living in Washington,
00:49:21.880 --> 00:49:27.460
D .C., I found out that little black boys were
00:49:27.460 --> 00:49:33.360
disproportionately yanked out of regular schools
00:49:33.360 --> 00:49:39.119
and placed in segregated school settings in Virginia
00:49:39.119 --> 00:49:47.070
and Maryland because they were disabled. You
00:49:47.070 --> 00:49:51.230
know, either that or black children's behavior
00:49:51.230 --> 00:49:55.969
gets pathologized. Absolutely. Criminalized.
00:49:56.929 --> 00:50:01.949
Stuff that little white kids get away with. No
00:50:01.949 --> 00:50:04.829
way a black child is going to get away with that.
00:50:05.269 --> 00:50:08.670
And let me tell you something. When I was coming
00:50:08.670 --> 00:50:13.329
up in school, we had called for punishment. We
00:50:13.329 --> 00:50:17.289
had teachers whooping our butts. Okay. And guess
00:50:17.289 --> 00:50:21.630
who got it? And then in the black classes, really
00:50:21.630 --> 00:50:26.809
guess who got it? The darker skinned kids. You
00:50:26.809 --> 00:50:31.289
know, or you had, as in my case, when I was in
00:50:31.289 --> 00:50:37.090
kindergarten, white teachers abusing black students.
00:50:37.289 --> 00:50:39.710
I can't tell you how many times that teacher
00:50:39.710 --> 00:50:43.690
waterboarded me, you know, just for like, stick
00:50:43.690 --> 00:50:48.059
my face in water. Just for like, I mean, at five
00:50:48.059 --> 00:50:54.179
years old. So we Black kids, you know, we go
00:50:54.179 --> 00:51:01.820
through it and it's a direct result of racism.
00:51:02.059 --> 00:51:06.119
And when you have racism compounded by disability,
00:51:06.639 --> 00:51:11.599
you know, and that's why I get upset with a lot
00:51:11.599 --> 00:51:15.090
in our Black community. Because a lot of folks
00:51:15.090 --> 00:51:19.250
in the Black community treat Black disabled people
00:51:19.250 --> 00:51:25.369
like we're white Karen's demanding stuff. And
00:51:25.369 --> 00:51:33.869
I don't understand where this comes from. Maybe
00:51:33.869 --> 00:51:37.530
it's the last hallmarks of enslavement where
00:51:37.530 --> 00:51:39.889
people had to have value and whatnot. And if
00:51:39.889 --> 00:51:45.420
you didn't have that, I don't know. Even now,
00:51:47.039 --> 00:51:56.719
there are some Black disabled who find a home
00:51:56.719 --> 00:52:01.760
in the Black community, but it's very, very rare.
00:52:02.059 --> 00:52:06.019
And what ends up happening is we Black disabled
00:52:06.019 --> 00:52:10.800
wind up finding a home within ourselves, within
00:52:10.800 --> 00:52:15.340
our own. you know, community. Well, it's been
00:52:15.340 --> 00:52:19.300
wonderful to get to know you better. Thank you
00:52:19.300 --> 00:52:22.820
once again for coming out to California for the
00:52:22.820 --> 00:52:26.760
DRC gala this year. Thank you. That was so much
00:52:26.760 --> 00:52:31.079
fun. That was good. And I will be back in California
00:52:31.079 --> 00:52:34.760
in the Oakland area in August. Fantastic. Well,
00:52:34.840 --> 00:52:37.420
we can't wait. We hope to be able to see you
00:52:37.420 --> 00:52:40.829
and connect. uh but thank you again so much for
00:52:40.829 --> 00:52:44.349
joining the game plan it's been wonderful thank
00:52:44.349 --> 00:52:48.730
you it was my pleasure and an honor to be here