Episode #136 Featuring Dr. Dave Rabin Part 2! Everyone's FAVORITE NEUROSCIENTIST! "A Simple Guide to Being Alive"

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Bye.
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over your health today with Apollo Neuro. All right, everybody,
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welcome back to the Dillinger Belly Podcast. Most excited I've
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been on a show to date, and I'll tell you why.
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If you follow me, then you know I talk about
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my guest device, the Apollo Neuro, all the time. But
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It's more so about him himself, everything about him, everything
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since I met him, everything that we've talked about together
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that you've taught me personally, the time we've got to
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spend together.
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Not enough for me, but a good amount. More to come. Yes, 100%.
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That's damn right. It's everybody's favorite neuroscientist. He's the co-founder
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of the Apollo Neuro, which is what you're well known for.
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But what I'm most excited to talk about you today
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is is the new book that is going to be
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coming out soon. We're going to give you some insight
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on that and the topics that are covered. There's some
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stuff in there that just excites me to no end.
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And it's called A Simple Guide to Being Alive. But
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I mean, it goes without saying, the impact that you have,
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the things that you do, and the heart that you
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carry is why I love you and think of you
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as family. And it's just, it's so good to be
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back with you. And this is part two with my guest, Dr.
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Dave Rabin. Thanks so much for having me, Dylan. It's
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a pleasure to be here with you, as always.
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What does it mean to you when you put this together,
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a simple guide to being alive? Because to me, it
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sounds like a handbook of life.
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I think that as a doctor, we often get patients
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coming to us all the time confused about how to
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live a good life, how to live a long life,
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how to just struggling to figure out how to enjoy
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life and make enough money and do all the things
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that we feel like we're supposed to be doing. And
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when I went to medical school and I, you know,
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I've spent more time in school than most humans, right?
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I've been in school for like 12 years post-college in training.
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So it's a lot of time. And I realized myself,
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you know, coming through the end of my training that
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there were still a lot of gaps. And I learned
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how to treat people with severe mental illness. I learned
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so much about how to help people heal and recover.
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But I also realized that For a lot of people,
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many of the techniques we were taught to use still
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weren't working. Like they weren't making a dent and people
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were still symptomatic for life, on medications for life, having
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a lot of side effects from medications. And there were,
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you know, we were taught, I think one thing that
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was really astounding to me is that we were taught
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not to use the C word for mental illness, right?
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The word cure. Like other, all other practices in medicine
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are able to use the word cure for different things.
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We're not taught to use that word. Because our treatments
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don't cure people. Our treatments stabilize people. And they stabilize
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people for life, but people are still sick. And so,
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in part, that's why we've seen, when you look at
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the statistics for mental illness around the world, but especially
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in the U.S. and the Western world, mental illness rates
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have skyrocketed over the last 10 years. Addiction rates have
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skyrocketed over the last 10 years. And they're not getting better.
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They're getting much worse every year. Which makes me think,
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and many of my colleagues think, well, maybe we need
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to be asking different questions about how we're approaching this, right?
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Maybe there are other ways to approach mental illness, not from,
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let's just stabilize somebody, but let's get to the root cause.
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So when I started to dive into the root cause,
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I realized that whether you look at Western medicine and
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what we were seeing in the clinic in our patients,
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or when I started to look at where we're Western
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medicine had gaps, like in the Eastern and tribal medicine
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approaches around breathwork, meditation, yoga, mindfulness, plant medicine, and psychedelic medicine,
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I realized that these are all different disciplines that are
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approaching life from different angles, but through the different lenses, right?
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But we're looking at the same thing. When you, well,
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taking a step back, when you look at trying to
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solve these really complex problems of mental illness, that are
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epidemic worldwide now, and you look at trying to solve
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those problems from just a Western lens or just an
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Eastern or tribal lens, it seems really complicated. People are confused.
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People don't get better. But when you actually look at
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the field taking like a 30,000 foot view and trying
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to figure out, well, what do these different disciplines have
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in common, right? What is Western medicine in common with
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Eastern and tribal medicine? And how are they all, how
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can they all come together? you start to actually be
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able to put the puzzle pieces together into the solution
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and solve the puzzle because you have all the pieces.
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So I started to look outside the box and study
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other traditions in the way they, that were much older
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than Western medicine. And long story short, I just realized
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that when you look at the whole view of life
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and mental illness and ease and disease, and you try to,
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and you look at it from the three perspectives together, Eastern, Western,
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and tribal medicine, with all the pieces, the solutions are
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actually a lot more simple than we thought. And so
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seeing that we weren't getting taught this in medical school
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and none of my medical colleagues and practitioners that I
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worked with were getting taught this stuff, I just realized,
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you know, I need to write this book. Like I
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need to put all these pieces together for people so
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that we can have a simple guide that actually pulls
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from all these different disciplines and gives people all the
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pieces they need to solve this puzzle on their own.
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helping kind of reframe this as actually as simple as
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it really is, which is really getting back to childhood
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wonder and joy, innocence, play, awe, imagination, intuition, like spirituality,
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all the good stuff that has been talked about for
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thousands of years by Eastern and tribal cultures, we're now
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finally proving in Western medicine and Western science are real.
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And not only are they real, they change our biology,
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they extend our longevity, they increase our heart rate variability.
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They do all the things that people are injecting stem
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cells and paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for therapies for.
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And if you could get the same benefits with re-embracing
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childhood wonder and play for free, people should probably know that.
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So that's kind of the thesis of the book.
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I spent so much time only focusing on fitness, nutrition,
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and I never understood how important and how dominating the
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mind is over that, over everything. And what I'm coming
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to find is the more deeper that I dig and
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the more intellectual people that I talk to, even the
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guys that like what I'm going to do now that
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I haven't really gotten into you with, he's a chiropractor,
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but he's doing like nervous system work and resets and
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things that go in deep because without doing that, all
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these other things don't work.
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Like the nervous system has to be in a state
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that's receptive to what we're offering it.
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So the alignment's off and if the alignment's off, It
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seems to me, now you tell me, because I do
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believe in the mind-body connection, and I don't want to
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say that one is more important than the other, but
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I swear to you, the more I look at it,
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and I say this because now it's just progressed month
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after month after month after month, that the mind is
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the more dominant part of this, that it really is
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the key to getting full health alignment. I don't think
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that if you're not there, you're ever going to be
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fully aligned, no matter what you do, and it's too
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dominant over the other aspects. You tell me what you think.
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I mean, it's... So, yes, it is... The mind is dominant, right?
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Because the mind is where our ego lives. And when
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we're trained into a state of self-protection because we believe
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the world around us is unsafe for any reason, then
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the mind... The grip of the mind takes hold. And...
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puts our bodies into a state where we resist change
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and learning. And so this is actually what I call
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in the book Dr. Dave's mind blowers, which are these
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very simple concepts that have been taught incorrectly in modern education.
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And by modern education, I mean for the last couple
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hundred years that we still teach these incorrectly. Like, for instance,
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we teach that the mind and the body are disconnected.
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But we know, and separate, but we know definitively that
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if you are mentally and emotionally ill for an extended
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period of time and you don't do anything about it,
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you do become physically ill.
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Oh, yeah.
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We know that stress increases your heart rate and your
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blood pressure and your breath rate. And we know that
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when you slow your breath rate intentionally. by choice, your
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heart rate comes down and your thoughts slow down and
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you start to feel better within 90 to 120 seconds.
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So there's very clearly a mind-body intimate, irrevocable connection, right?
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And if we deny that at the core, then... we
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lose out on the opportunity to engage that relationship and
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take the wheel, right? We let the environment steer what,
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like dictate what happens to us rather than us saying, oh, well,
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I actually have a say in the outcome because I
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can change my mind. Yeah. Right? Like I have the
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power to change my mind. That is incredible power. It's
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like potentially unlimited power when you realize that the way
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we choose words for instance actually dictates our reality because
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our words apply meaning to our existence right and so
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so that's a so that's like a core piece is
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that you know like going back to what you're saying
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that the that the mind and the body are connected
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so that if we are taught for instance that that
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the world around us is unsafe growing up because we're
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exposed to extreme hardship, lack of support from our parents
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or our role models when we're growing up and facing challenges,
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people who tell us many times, like we've all experienced, like,
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what's wrong with you that you did that thing? What's
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wrong with you that that happened to you? And when
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you hear that from a role model, it all of
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a sudden makes us think that we can't trust ourselves
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to keep ourselves safe. And that's the core of trauma.
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It's actually like adopting a victim mindset, like that's a
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It's like a broken bone. It's a fractured self-trust. If
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somebody I respect tells me that I did something wrong,
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that I couldn't keep myself safe, and that I caused
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a certain problem and I'm at fault, then now, rather
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than overcoming the challenge I just had with support, I
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feel guilt and shame around that situation, right? And then
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that fractures my trust in myself and my ability to
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keep myself safe. So when that happens, psychologically, the biological
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reflection of that is my amygdala... This fear center in
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my brain that goes back to ancient, we call the
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reptilian brain, right? It goes back to ancient reptiles. That's
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there to protect us from threat and keep us alive,
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starts to fire off all the time because it thinks
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that we are always under threat. And when we're under threat,
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we can't let the body lead. We can't let our
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intuition lead because we don't trust our intuition anymore. And
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coming back to our bodies and coming back to our intuition,
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which is generally knows what's right and what's true, where
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our minds are often doubting what's right and what's true
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and questioning and judging, which is useful in many circumstances,
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but we, but it often should not lead. The mind
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is meant to follow the body and intuition should lead.
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And that's something that's also very, very much not taught well.
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When we learn to not trust our bodies, then the
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fear control of the mind and the amygdala leads to
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And then that takes such a firm grip and hold
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on us that we end up effectively doubting every single
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experience we have and not being able to be present.
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So to your point, yeah, in modern day, the grip
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of the mind has been trained to, in this ego-dominant state,
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to protect us. It's not trying to hurt us though, right?
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That's the thing that I think a lot of people
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don't understand is like, It's like our minds are not
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trying to hurt us. They're not trying to make our
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lives hard. They're just trying to protect us because they
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perceive that there is danger, even though there isn't actually danger.
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And so in the book, I really help break this
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down from an evolutionary perspective where people can understand this
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part of the brain, the amygdala, evolved not just in us,
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but in all animals dating back to ancient reptiles to
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really protect us from four things. Lack of air. And
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in order of what will kill us first, right? And fastest,
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lack of air, lack of physical safety and shelter, lack
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of water and lack of food. Those are the four
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things that will kill us faster than anything else. Then
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the other two are lack of sleep and lack of
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social connection to our community. So when those first four
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issues are checked off, you can say, I have all
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these things, right? I have physical safety, I have air,
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I have water, I have food. Then... When we run
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that checklist, we can actually shut down the amygdala. We
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can say, these boxes are checked. I can take a
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deep breath right now and come back into my body
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knowing my body's safe. And then you reset. And it's
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just that simple. But again, if we don't learn how
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to do that, those skills just become elusive to us.
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We forget how to come back to the body. So
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a couple thoughts that I had there while you were talking.
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So if you look at it from this point of view,
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If you get injured and you recover and you get
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over it, let's just say you get a decently bad
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injury six months, right? But if you get verbally injured,
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that can last a lifetime. And I'm correlating this in
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the difference between mind and body and why I feel
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like the mind is more dominant. Then think about this.
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If I'm running a marathon or a race or something
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that's so just difficult, my mind can do one of
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two things. you can't do this, stop, or you can
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do this, run it, control everything that we're able to do.
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And that's part of the reason why I'm understanding.
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Okay. Yes.
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I'm not saying that you, of course we want to
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address the health side of the fitness and the nutrition.
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Obviously that goes without saying, but you're not going to
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be able to do it. You just not, if this
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isn't done first. Now, vice versa, if your mind's right,
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you can always go and do the other stuff.
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Yeah. You can. It doesn't mean you're going to, but
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you can. Right. The other way, you just can't.
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Right.
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It's impossible. Yeah. So it's just dawned on me right now. Hallelujah. Yeah. Yeah,
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it's all about alignment, right? It's about harmony. It's about
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the mind and the body working together, where they're both listening.
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There's a clear, like, as the... Amazonian people talk about
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that indigenous people and even Eastern traditions, they talk about
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clear energy flow back and forth, right? So it's about
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clear lines of communication and alignment and harmony. So not
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a battle, not a fight between this and this, it's
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clear communication flow between this and this, between mind and heart,
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mind and body. And when those channels are open, then
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when the body sends signals to the mind, the mind
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can understand them without judging them first. It can just listen.
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And when the mind listens to those signals without judgment,
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it can actually understand what they are by feeling them
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rather than by shutting them down before feeling them. If
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we don't feel feelings, which are just signals they're not
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good or bad, then those feelings get stuck in the
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body and then they can't get out. And they just
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keep knocking at the mind being like, hey, I need
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you to feel me. I need you to feel me.
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And when you don't feel them, they're like children. They
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just knock louder. They scream louder. Like, I need you
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to feel me. I'm trying to send a message to you. Like,
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answer the damn phone. Right. And it just keep calling. Yeah.
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And we call that anxiety. Right. So like that is
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what causes restlessness. That's what causes chronic anxiety and chronic stress.
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is not paying attention to things that are outside of
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our control. It's also dissonance between mind and body, not harmony.
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Harmony means signal of emotion comes in and we don't
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shut it down or resist it because we think we're
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not supposed to feel it because it's uncomfortable or because
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we were told we're not supposed to feel it. We
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just feel it for what it is. And guess what?
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It passes by in 90 to 120 seconds and then
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you can take the message that you were supposed to
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be sending to us, understand what that is, and learn
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from it and feeling goes away and you move on
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to the next thing. Right. But if, if we are
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resist that and don't allow the feeling to happen, then
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we're creating dissonance between the mind and the body. And
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it's effectively like an orchestra playing out of tune and
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out of time. It sounds horrible and it feels horrible.
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And so, so that, so that is kind of the metaphor,
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best metaphor that I found for like how to think
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about what we're talking about, which is, It's alignment, it's balance,
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it's being in tune and in time together like an orchestra,
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not out of tune, because out of tune sounds horrible.
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Let me ask you a question then, and this is
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like a personal question about myself. I'm going to correlate
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this with what you're saying. So in my heart, like
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I have this amount of love that's like abounding, just
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full of compassion and full of care and sometimes just
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maybe even too soft to a point for others. But
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I go through these points in time where it's there,
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but I can't let it out. And I don't know why.
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It's not like I'm sitting here going, Dylan, don't let
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it out. But something in my head is not allowing it.
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So my question is to correlate with what you're asking,
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because I feel like it falls into line there. What
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would one, because I'm sure there's plenty of people that
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go through the same thing. And I like to victimize
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myself here to people and tell people how the problems
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I have.
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But what would you say your vulnerability? Well, yeah, man shit.
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I've got a lot of it. So what causes that? Like,
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what is the underlying issue there? Is it different for
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everybody or is it something that happened?
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I mean, think about it like yin and yang, right? Like,
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yin is cool, feminine, receptive, sensitive. Yang is hot, masculine, active, doing, right?
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And in the yin-yang, those are constantly in balance with
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each other. So.
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When we're taught growing up as young men, and I'm
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sure you experienced this the way I experienced it, which
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is when we express sensitivity as young men, what was
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the first thing as a young man that you were told? Well,
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it's weak. Exactly. So you internalize that. I internalize that.
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Every single young man in the world that grows up
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in Western, or at least in Western culture, internalizes this
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concept that being sensitive which is really just having a
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balanced yin-yang, because the yin-yang is about balance. It's not about,
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it exists in all of us, right? There's masculine and
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feminine energy in all of us. Eastern tradition around them.
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It's not like because we're born men, we're just yang. No,
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we are physically male, but we have yin and yang
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in us, just like women have yin and yang in them.
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And so the energies balance each other. So if we're
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taught expressing sensitivity is weak or not okay, then... we
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shut it down. So when we start to feel that
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sensitivity come up and we start to feel those powerful
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emotions in our bodies and our hearts, at any time,
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even when it normally would be safe to express them,
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there's a part of us that has been trained now
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for decades that says, it's not okay to express that
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you're a man, be a man, right? Don't show that weakness.
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But it's not weakness, right? And so do you want
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to necessarily start shedding tears in the middle of a
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board meeting? No. And there are certain situations where it's
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totally okay to say, You know, I'm feeling really sensitive
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right now, but this isn't the right time. But to
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come back to it later, right, to make time, to
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come back to it later and restore the balance, because
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maybe in that board meeting you need more yang. Maybe
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when you come back after the board meeting and you're
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chilling in your home with your family or by yourself
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with your pets or at the beach, you can bring
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that yin out again. Right. Right. And so it's all
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about just this dynamic understanding, this dynamic balance and then
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balancing it.
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Right.
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And if we don't acknowledge that none of it is weak,
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it's actually weak to shut it down. Right. It's the
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rejection of the balance is weakness. And that's what creates weakness.
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Because when we reject the balance, if we say like
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my sensitive parts are weak, I won't allow them to
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come out ever. Right. Then those sensitive parts start to
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try to take over the system because they're like, why
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are you ignoring me? I'm part of you. And then
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they start to become manipulative and overbearing and start to
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try to control and take over the situation in different
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ways because they're not allowed to express themselves. And all
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of our parts need to express themselves and feel safe
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within the whole. So that's actually a big part of
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why we developed Apollo because when we talk about this stuff,
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it's really important to talk about, but we call that
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top-down learning. This is another thing that's really poorly taught
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that I talk about at the beginning of the book.
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is that there are two ways we learn, right? There's
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people listening to this podcast and reading the book and
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reading the books we're learning in school and all that.
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And that's top-down learning, cognitive brain-to-body. Understanding through the brain,
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we try to pass that down to the body through practice.
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Then there's the other kind of learning that is equally important,
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if not on speaking of balance, right? Which is body-first learning,
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bottom-up experiential learning. Watching somebody do something and then trying
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to imitate it. Feeling a feeling and then trying to
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recreate that feeling based on feeling, not based on understanding.
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Have you ever tried to ride a bike by reading
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an instruction manual? Negative. Right? How hard would that be?
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It would be so hard. Right. Or to play any
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sport by reading an instruction manual. Like, we just don't
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do that. Not much of an instruction manual guy. Exactly.
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But you're still learning. Right. And you're mastering because your
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body's leading the learning in those cases. And so we
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learn everything by top-down and bottom-up together. I see. That's
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how we maximize learning. That's very poorly taught. Right. We're
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missing 50% when we only try to learn by understanding
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and not from the body. So Apollo is the bottom-up
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tool that teaches the body how to feel safe with
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yin and yang at the same time, how to feel
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safe being sensitive, how to feel safe being dominant, how
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to feel safe in all these different situations where it's appropriate, right?
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And then how to feel safe and not weak expressing
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ourselves and expressing and feeling our emotions And then the
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book is the top down, which is the explanation of
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how it all works. But we need both. And so
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the body always needs its own instructions. And so it's really,
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when we think about learning in general, aside from like
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Apollo in the book, just learning in general, it's really
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about balance, similar to what we're talking about with feeling.
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And so that's why, because of what we're taught growing
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up as young men in this culture, that's effectively why
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we shut a lot of that stuff down and why
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it comes out in all these weird ways as we
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get older, man.
448
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I'll tell you what, I don't know what part of
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yin or yang I'm in with this new vibe you
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00:25:17.549 --> 00:25:20.009
put on, but it feels pretty solid, man. I feel
451
00:25:20.049 --> 00:25:22.150
pretty damn good. Yeah. Cause I was a little tired
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when I got here, but I don't feel like that anymore, man.
453
00:25:24.589 --> 00:25:27.289
This is nice. Yeah. So we're both rocking the conference
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vibe right now, which has a brand new vibe we
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just put out, which is like energizing social focus flow. And,
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you know, just like you, you know, like I've been,
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I've been like staying up like three nights a week
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all night, you know, cause I'd be 16 months old
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at home. And so I can't write the book during
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the day, then finish because I don't have any quiet
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time and it requires all of my focus to do
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this kind of work. And then I'm running a company
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during the day and seeing patients and all that. And
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so I'm have to do the book stuff at night.
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And so I'm super sleep deprived, flew here today to
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see you and do this podcast. And, and so, you know,
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we just got on the same vibe and now we're rocking.
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It feels good, man. I'm going to start doing this
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every day. I told you like I'm the most same
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regimented guy. So I do the same ones every single day,
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but I think this is going to be super helpful
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throughout the week. And that's what I love that you
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do is the innovation coming out with new ones. And
474
00:26:19.519 --> 00:26:22.940
we talk about ideas and everything, but there's so many
475
00:26:22.980 --> 00:26:25.759
different things that you can trigger within a system to
476
00:26:26.180 --> 00:26:27.640
get it going in a different direction.
477
00:26:27.660 --> 00:26:28.109
Right.
478
00:26:28.220 --> 00:26:30.940
I would have never dreamed of thinking, because in my mind,
479
00:26:30.980 --> 00:26:33.150
it was like, man, this is when I first got
480
00:26:33.329 --> 00:26:35.750
learning about it, it's amazing. But I, I never really
481
00:26:35.769 --> 00:26:38.140
thought about, well, you could go 20 different routes, now
482
00:26:38.140 --> 00:26:40.740
30 different routes and just keep going and going and going.
483
00:26:40.759 --> 00:26:41.339
Right.
484
00:26:42.039 --> 00:26:43.920
How do you keep coming up with these ideas and
485
00:26:44.220 --> 00:26:48.049
how difficult is it to create a different feel for
486
00:26:48.089 --> 00:26:50.589
what you're trying to like push through into a body?
487
00:26:50.609 --> 00:26:52.490
Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, I think.
488
00:26:53.069 --> 00:26:55.309
What if I told you that one molecule will help
489
00:26:55.369 --> 00:26:58.809
keep your body's system cleansed, supported immune health, and cellular
490
00:26:58.849 --> 00:27:02.990
protection all at once? I'm talking about glutathione, aka the
491
00:27:03.059 --> 00:27:07.180
body's master antioxidant. It exists inside nearly every cell, helping
492
00:27:07.220 --> 00:27:10.799
to protect DNA, proteins, and cell membranes from oxidative stress,
493
00:27:10.960 --> 00:27:13.359
as well as playing a major role in liver cleansing,
494
00:27:13.500 --> 00:27:18.519
mitochondrial energy production, and immune balance. Unfortunately, pollutions, toxins, and
495
00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:22.029
stress can rapidly deplete glutathione levels, and as we age,
496
00:27:22.150 --> 00:27:26.049
glutathione production decreases as well. And many traditional glutathione supplements
497
00:27:26.130 --> 00:27:29.450
do not absorb well, making it extremely difficult to raise
498
00:27:29.619 --> 00:27:33.039
intracellular levels where glutathione actually works. And that's why I
499
00:27:33.180 --> 00:27:38.019
use Glutaryl, the multi-patented topical glutathione developed by the amazing Dr.
500
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Nayam Patel.
501
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502
00:27:42.180 --> 00:27:44.799
helping provide a convenient and consistent way to support the
503
00:27:44.859 --> 00:27:48.089
body's most important antioxidant system. So use my link in
504
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the description and code Dylan to save 15% off today.
505
00:27:51.509 --> 00:27:56.210
So there are infinite states and situations that knock us
506
00:27:56.589 --> 00:28:00.089
off balance. Yeah. Right? So it's not... So there are...
507
00:28:00.390 --> 00:28:03.549
There are... infinite situations that we can create vibes for.
508
00:28:04.170 --> 00:28:07.630
The vibrations that come out of Apollo are songs for
509
00:28:07.670 --> 00:28:11.680
your body. They're literal music. It's sound waves that we
510
00:28:11.740 --> 00:28:14.279
discovered in the University of Pittsburgh. That is a sound
511
00:28:14.299 --> 00:28:17.819
wave algorithm that my team and I discovered. And we
512
00:28:17.859 --> 00:28:19.789
talk about the story in the book for the first time,
513
00:28:20.170 --> 00:28:24.839
really in depth. And it's it was from studying music
514
00:28:25.140 --> 00:28:27.460
and the effects of music on the nervous system and
515
00:28:27.549 --> 00:28:30.650
soothing touch effects on the nervous system and MDMAs effects
516
00:28:30.710 --> 00:28:33.549
on the nervous system. And it turns out that at
517
00:28:33.609 --> 00:28:35.869
least back in 2014, when I started doing this work,
518
00:28:36.869 --> 00:28:39.190
all of these things, soothing touch and soothing music and
519
00:28:39.210 --> 00:28:41.230
all these things had great effects for our patients with
520
00:28:41.269 --> 00:28:44.819
trauma and depression. They were self-medicating with these things, right?
521
00:28:44.839 --> 00:28:47.720
They were self-medicating with their service animals. They were self-medicating
522
00:28:47.779 --> 00:28:51.039
with their with their favorite songs all the time, right?
523
00:28:51.259 --> 00:28:53.140
But you can't always listen to music when you're at work.
524
00:28:53.430 --> 00:28:55.769
You can't always have your animal with you at work.
525
00:28:55.970 --> 00:28:59.589
And so that's when they started to get knocked off balance.
526
00:28:59.970 --> 00:29:03.170
So we started to look at, you know, well, what's
527
00:29:03.250 --> 00:29:05.940
actually happening in the nervous system when you get a
528
00:29:05.960 --> 00:29:07.680
hug from somebody you like on a bad day or
529
00:29:07.740 --> 00:29:10.299
when you hear your favorite song come on by surprise
530
00:29:10.339 --> 00:29:13.880
on a bad day. And when I was at this time,
531
00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:18.819
I was studying MDMA-assisted therapy because this was the best,
532
00:29:18.920 --> 00:29:23.789
most effective treatment that had short and years-long lasting benefits
533
00:29:24.230 --> 00:29:28.329
to trauma treatment, better than anything we'd ever seen before. Like,
534
00:29:28.609 --> 00:29:31.829
just three doses of medicine in 12 weeks of psychotherapy,
535
00:29:32.670 --> 00:29:36.519
and like an antibiotic protocol, effectively. And people were better,
536
00:29:37.599 --> 00:29:41.900
better as in no longer meeting like diagnostic criteria for
537
00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:45.160
PTSD at one year out. And some people, the benefits
538
00:29:45.180 --> 00:29:48.519
were lasting five years with just three doses of medicine.
539
00:29:49.059 --> 00:29:51.839
This is the opposite statistics we were seeing with our
540
00:29:52.339 --> 00:29:54.039
are treatments where people are sick for life and you
541
00:29:54.059 --> 00:29:56.940
stop medicine, most of them relapse, right? So this was
542
00:29:57.000 --> 00:29:59.180
like leaps and bounds better than what we were seeing.
543
00:29:59.819 --> 00:30:02.549
It's paradigm shifting for the field. And so I thought, well,
544
00:30:02.930 --> 00:30:04.490
we need to figure out how this thing's working in
545
00:30:04.529 --> 00:30:07.990
the brain, right? Like if MDMA is really doing this,
546
00:30:08.329 --> 00:30:12.119
which it was in the trials, in double blind, randomized, incredibly,
547
00:30:12.190 --> 00:30:15.539
the most rigorous form of clinical trial, it was undeniable
548
00:30:15.579 --> 00:30:17.500
it was working. And these were the same patients I
549
00:30:17.539 --> 00:30:20.279
was seeing in the clinic that were struggling. And I
550
00:30:20.630 --> 00:30:22.099
I'm like, we have to figure out what parts of
551
00:30:22.119 --> 00:30:25.039
the brain this medicine's activating and why it's working so
552
00:30:25.059 --> 00:30:27.839
we can figure out how to activate these parts of
553
00:30:27.859 --> 00:30:30.359
the brain naturally. Turns out, guess what parts of the
554
00:30:30.380 --> 00:30:33.380
brain it activates? The insulate cortex and the amygdala. The
555
00:30:33.420 --> 00:30:35.930
same parts are involved in soothing touch and hearing your
556
00:30:35.950 --> 00:30:38.609
favorite song on a bad day. And so I was like, wow,
557
00:30:39.309 --> 00:30:41.769
I never had a good explanation for why that felt
558
00:30:41.809 --> 00:30:42.250
so good.
559
00:30:42.890 --> 00:30:43.630
Sure, if you?
560
00:30:43.990 --> 00:30:44.289
No.
561
00:30:44.569 --> 00:30:44.759
Right?
562
00:30:44.799 --> 00:30:46.980
I mean, how would I know? It's a universal human
563
00:30:47.019 --> 00:30:49.759
experience that we just all accept is real.
564
00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:50.119
Yeah.
565
00:30:50.849 --> 00:30:53.970
And we do it, but we have no idea why
566
00:30:54.029 --> 00:30:56.109
it works. And I was like, I need to figure
567
00:30:56.170 --> 00:30:57.809
out how this works. And then it was like a
568
00:30:57.849 --> 00:31:00.819
light bulb went off when I started studying MDMA and
569
00:31:00.839 --> 00:31:02.759
the neural pathways that it activates. I was like, oh
570
00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:06.380
my God, this is the same neural pathways that getting
571
00:31:06.420 --> 00:31:09.380
a hug from a friend or hearing your favorite song activate.
572
00:31:09.890 --> 00:31:12.220
So then we started to play around with these different
573
00:31:12.259 --> 00:31:15.730
vibration patterns and started rather than composing, knowing that music
574
00:31:15.789 --> 00:31:18.730
has been proven for thousands of years to induce different
575
00:31:18.769 --> 00:31:21.990
mood and emotional state for any situation, right? Like we
576
00:31:22.029 --> 00:31:24.289
just accept that it's true by fact because it's a
577
00:31:24.329 --> 00:31:28.220
universal human experience. I was like, well, if music can
578
00:31:28.240 --> 00:31:30.460
do this, then what if we just compose music for
579
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:32.119
a different sensory organ system?
580
00:31:32.299 --> 00:31:32.700
Right.
581
00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:35.299
So what if the music is wearable on your body
582
00:31:35.740 --> 00:31:37.819
rather than through your ears? And then you don't have
583
00:31:37.839 --> 00:31:40.180
to have headphones on to get the benefits of which
584
00:31:40.200 --> 00:31:42.619
you can't have headphones on all the time. You seem
585
00:31:42.920 --> 00:31:45.500
like really disrespectful to the people around you when you're
586
00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:47.509
wearing headphones on all the time. You and I know it.
587
00:31:47.740 --> 00:31:50.140
We see Gen Z people do it all the time nowadays,
588
00:31:50.200 --> 00:31:52.440
like when they're supposed to be like in a customer
589
00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:55.500
service role and you're like, are you wearing headphones? Seriously.
590
00:31:55.519 --> 00:31:58.119
They're probably just really stressed out. It's like, I feel
591
00:31:58.140 --> 00:32:00.930
for them, but like we can do better now in
592
00:32:00.970 --> 00:32:04.109
the 21st century, right? Like now that we know that
593
00:32:04.269 --> 00:32:07.569
the skin can receive music, that is what led to
594
00:32:07.589 --> 00:32:09.720
the creation of Apollo and, And so we can create
595
00:32:09.759 --> 00:32:13.019
vibes for anything. So now we're in a pattern that
596
00:32:13.079 --> 00:32:15.079
since we, I have more time, a little more time
597
00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:16.829
to do this, we're in a pattern of releasing a
598
00:32:16.869 --> 00:32:19.970
vibe a month for people. And each vibe is basically
599
00:32:20.369 --> 00:32:22.519
whatever our people reach out to us and they say,
600
00:32:23.210 --> 00:32:25.750
this is what we need. We want to feel more
601
00:32:25.809 --> 00:32:28.990
confident when we're tired. We want to feel more energized
602
00:32:29.009 --> 00:32:31.549
we want to feel like we can dive in and
603
00:32:31.609 --> 00:32:34.579
study something that bores the crap out of us for
604
00:32:34.619 --> 00:32:37.059
extended periods of time we want to be more calm
605
00:32:37.099 --> 00:32:39.819
and present with our loved ones after work so we
606
00:32:39.859 --> 00:32:42.039
just we just serve everybody we're like tell us what
607
00:32:42.119 --> 00:32:44.819
vibes you want and so we just started composing them
608
00:32:45.259 --> 00:32:47.599
and so we've been composing them in the lab and
609
00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:50.220
releasing them and and you get to try the one
610
00:32:50.240 --> 00:32:52.470
of the latest ones right now i love it well
611
00:32:52.490 --> 00:32:55.750
i mean and it's it's cool because it it does
612
00:32:55.890 --> 00:32:58.150
give you that different sort of feel for what you
613
00:32:58.190 --> 00:33:00.529
need and what you want. Cause I, you know, like
614
00:33:00.549 --> 00:33:03.490
you said, no, I never really understood why until recently
615
00:33:03.579 --> 00:33:06.839
that when you understand that we were made and created
616
00:33:06.900 --> 00:33:09.160
to love, I mean, that's the whole point in creation. It,
617
00:33:10.210 --> 00:33:12.750
anything in the Bible always reverts back to love. I
618
00:33:13.390 --> 00:33:16.119
read the whole New Testament, and I remember the first
619
00:33:16.140 --> 00:33:17.839
time I read it, I said, well, this essentially is
620
00:33:17.880 --> 00:33:20.099
just talking about love the whole time until you, then
621
00:33:20.119 --> 00:33:23.180
you grasp what it's really saying, but it revolves around that.
622
00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:25.440
That's what we were created to do. So it goes
623
00:33:25.460 --> 00:33:28.990
without saying, we get that, we feel good instantly because
624
00:33:29.009 --> 00:33:30.329
that's what we were designed to feel.
625
00:33:30.450 --> 00:33:33.589
But again, the Bible is top-down learning. Right, right, right.
626
00:33:33.630 --> 00:33:37.390
So that's why so many people have trouble learning and
627
00:33:37.529 --> 00:33:41.009
actually understanding manifesting that in being.
628
00:33:41.150 --> 00:33:41.470
Right.
629
00:33:41.569 --> 00:33:43.089
Because it's just taught down.
630
00:33:43.150 --> 00:33:43.309
Yeah.
631
00:33:43.329 --> 00:33:46.690
We're missing the felt love, right? And missing like, oh,
632
00:33:46.730 --> 00:33:49.069
what does that love feel like? Well, I forgot. So
633
00:33:49.089 --> 00:33:50.549
I'm just going to do what I think it feels
634
00:33:50.569 --> 00:33:52.269
like based on what I'm reading in the Bible. Well,
635
00:33:52.769 --> 00:33:56.690
you're missing 50%. Yeah. Like 50% at least of love
636
00:33:57.250 --> 00:33:58.930
is feeling. Yeah. At least.
637
00:33:59.349 --> 00:34:02.430
It takes implementation. You can read all you want. I mean,
638
00:34:02.490 --> 00:34:05.410
I could read and become this smartest in the world,
639
00:34:05.450 --> 00:34:06.779
but it doesn't mean it's working.
640
00:34:07.019 --> 00:34:09.219
Right. And if you just read about what hugs feel like,
641
00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:11.480
but you never actually get one, are you actually going
642
00:34:11.500 --> 00:34:15.039
to know? No. Not even close. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
643
00:34:15.039 --> 00:34:18.300
You can't, those words can't explain that, right? Words are
644
00:34:18.320 --> 00:34:21.170
at best, words are best at best, even with the
645
00:34:21.269 --> 00:34:24.829
best words and the best authors, words are, are an
646
00:34:25.010 --> 00:34:29.769
imperfect description of reality. Right. Reality is mostly feeling. Yeah.
647
00:34:29.909 --> 00:34:30.190
Right.
648
00:34:30.570 --> 00:34:34.179
Yeah. So words are trying to describe human experience. Human
649
00:34:34.219 --> 00:34:36.380
experience is reality. Right.
650
00:34:36.500 --> 00:34:40.389
Words are one layer of separation. They may make you
651
00:34:40.409 --> 00:34:42.510
feel something for the time being, but it's not going
652
00:34:42.530 --> 00:34:44.789
to be a constant or consistent at all. It's just,
653
00:34:44.929 --> 00:34:46.630
it is what it is in the moment and that's it.
654
00:34:46.650 --> 00:34:47.869
And then it's gone. Right.
655
00:34:48.989 --> 00:34:53.829
This is nonstop and you can do it day and
656
00:34:53.889 --> 00:34:55.690
night or however you want.
657
00:34:55.789 --> 00:34:57.239
I mean, I try to keep it on as much
658
00:34:57.280 --> 00:34:57.840
as I can.
659
00:34:58.449 --> 00:35:01.159
The days I don't, I never really thought about it
660
00:35:01.619 --> 00:35:03.219
until I thought about it.
661
00:35:03.420 --> 00:35:04.260
You know what I mean? Yeah.
662
00:35:04.420 --> 00:35:07.199
What's going on today? I said such a hurry. It's
663
00:35:07.219 --> 00:35:08.389
like some days I just forget.
664
00:35:08.409 --> 00:35:10.369
Yeah. You know, you just do. You know how it is.
665
00:35:10.389 --> 00:35:12.050
Some days you get up and it's like you just
666
00:35:12.329 --> 00:35:14.769
are immediately something's on your phone and you just like
667
00:35:15.230 --> 00:35:16.130
everything goes AWOL.
668
00:35:16.170 --> 00:35:19.550
Yeah. You know. There's a fire spread out today. Yeah. Oh, shit.
669
00:35:20.190 --> 00:35:25.000
Never stops. But yeah. So, okay. Let's dig into some
670
00:35:25.019 --> 00:35:26.059
other stuff in the book. Let's do it.
671
00:35:26.610 --> 00:35:28.989
And then I want to talk about some MDMA therapy too.
672
00:35:29.050 --> 00:35:30.010
I want to get into that, but I want to
673
00:35:30.030 --> 00:35:31.650
get into something on the book. One of the things
674
00:35:31.690 --> 00:35:33.789
that I loved about you was when I saw the
675
00:35:33.829 --> 00:35:35.670
excitement when you were talking about we can prove that
676
00:35:35.710 --> 00:35:40.119
spirituality through science has this real effect. To me, that's
677
00:35:40.139 --> 00:35:41.860
like the greatest thing in the world to hear because
678
00:35:41.880 --> 00:35:43.539
I'll fight that all day and I won't sit here
679
00:35:43.559 --> 00:35:45.030
and go, I got all the science to prove it.
680
00:35:45.059 --> 00:35:46.599
I don't feel like I need to, but I want
681
00:35:46.659 --> 00:35:49.920
to learn it from somebody that does. You know, I
682
00:35:49.980 --> 00:35:52.789
speak more in the confident understanding of God's with me,
683
00:35:52.829 --> 00:35:54.489
but I want the science too. I want to hear
684
00:35:54.530 --> 00:35:58.360
it and I want you to because nobody is better
685
00:35:58.539 --> 00:36:00.420
ready to rattle that off.
686
00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:03.300
So tell me what you found, please. Well, so again,
687
00:36:03.340 --> 00:36:06.170
this is not just what I found. This is like
688
00:36:06.469 --> 00:36:10.809
a synthesis of hundreds of years of Western science research
689
00:36:10.849 --> 00:36:16.260
that from backbreaking labor of incredible scientists that came before
690
00:36:16.340 --> 00:36:19.420
me that were in search of the same mission, right?
691
00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:23.340
Like that arguably for even longer, even for thousands of years,
692
00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:26.980
we've been trying to prove the existence of God. And,
693
00:36:27.739 --> 00:36:30.449
you know, growing up, many of us, myself included, I
694
00:36:30.619 --> 00:36:33.929
think really struggle and wrestle with belief in God because
695
00:36:34.590 --> 00:36:37.929
when you actually learn about... Like, I learned that God
696
00:36:37.969 --> 00:36:40.090
existed when I was a kid, a really little kid,
697
00:36:40.150 --> 00:36:43.949
but then I started to learn about, like, Holocaust history and, like,
698
00:36:44.929 --> 00:36:48.070
started to see war on TV every day and, like,
699
00:36:48.869 --> 00:36:52.139
the news and, like, all the tragedy. And it's, like,
700
00:36:52.300 --> 00:36:57.199
hard to believe that... There could be a God when
701
00:36:57.219 --> 00:36:59.900
there is so much awful stuff that happens in the
702
00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:01.880
world every day. And I think a lot of us
703
00:37:01.940 --> 00:37:05.019
wrestle with that, but don't talk about it enough. And
704
00:37:05.039 --> 00:37:08.360
I think that there's this idea of faith, that faith
705
00:37:08.460 --> 00:37:13.260
has to be blind faith. And I kind of reframe
706
00:37:13.300 --> 00:37:16.469
that in the book where there's actually a science of
707
00:37:16.550 --> 00:37:21.789
faith and that faith need not be blind, but it
708
00:37:21.989 --> 00:37:26.900
actually can be based on evidence. of knowing and feeling
709
00:37:27.139 --> 00:37:31.019
and listening. And when we listen, when we literally learn
710
00:37:31.539 --> 00:37:35.030
that our, and to remind our minds that our bodies
711
00:37:35.070 --> 00:37:39.309
are safe places to inhabit, then we start to listen
712
00:37:39.489 --> 00:37:43.730
to all of the signs around us that are evidence
713
00:37:43.829 --> 00:37:46.860
that God is real, right? And that, or whatever you
714
00:37:46.880 --> 00:37:47.840
want to call it, right? You don't have to call
715
00:37:47.880 --> 00:37:50.119
it God. You can call it the source or you
716
00:37:50.139 --> 00:37:51.739
can call it divinity or you can call it whatever
717
00:37:51.820 --> 00:37:54.570
words work for you. But the point is that we
718
00:37:54.610 --> 00:37:59.210
start to realize that there is profound evidence in every
719
00:37:59.329 --> 00:38:04.030
moment that spirituality exists. And it's really just that we're
720
00:38:04.070 --> 00:38:06.710
distracted most of the time. We're not listening. It could
721
00:38:06.730 --> 00:38:08.389
be distracted by your phone. It could be distracted by
722
00:38:08.409 --> 00:38:11.889
too many responsibilities. It could be distracted by thoughts that
723
00:38:11.909 --> 00:38:14.710
your body is an unsafe place to be because people
724
00:38:14.769 --> 00:38:17.219
told you that growing up, right? Or trauma now even
725
00:38:17.260 --> 00:38:20.599
we know from past generations that gets passed down. Any
726
00:38:20.639 --> 00:38:26.590
of those things, infinite things, distract us from Yeah. And
727
00:38:26.750 --> 00:38:33.519
so what we start to realize is that in Western science,
728
00:38:33.619 --> 00:38:35.539
and this is some of the coolest stuff for my,
729
00:38:35.619 --> 00:38:38.139
for what I think as like a, as a scientist,
730
00:38:38.460 --> 00:38:41.320
a neuroscientist, I start to think about like, well, what
731
00:38:41.380 --> 00:38:44.780
happens when you believe in something to the body, right?
732
00:38:44.860 --> 00:38:48.239
What happens when you pray? What happens when you express
733
00:38:48.340 --> 00:38:53.210
gratitude for something? being alive as a simple first step, right?
734
00:38:53.650 --> 00:38:55.989
And you start to realize that when you measure people's
735
00:38:56.090 --> 00:39:00.730
bodies and they're expressing gratitude or they're expressing active belief,
736
00:39:01.070 --> 00:39:03.699
like real belief, like I believe that something is going,
737
00:39:03.739 --> 00:39:06.019
that I believe in myself or I believe in a
738
00:39:06.059 --> 00:39:09.179
higher power that is actually there and I'm actually a
739
00:39:09.219 --> 00:39:12.239
part of it, or I pray as if I actually
740
00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:15.760
know that I'm praying to something real. And you actually
741
00:39:15.780 --> 00:39:18.099
look what happens to those people's bodies, their bodies change.
742
00:39:19.159 --> 00:39:23.639
They recover from illness faster. They live longer. They are happier.
743
00:39:23.659 --> 00:39:30.179
Their heart rates come down during the act, right? and
744
00:39:30.659 --> 00:39:33.719
the studies of gratitude to me because gratitude is so
745
00:39:34.199 --> 00:39:36.480
can i swear on this show gratitude is so fucking
746
00:39:36.519 --> 00:39:41.130
fantastic Because it is a positive feedback loop.
747
00:39:41.170 --> 00:39:41.969
Yeah. Right?
748
00:39:42.250 --> 00:39:45.809
Like, even the science studies show this, that when you,
749
00:39:45.849 --> 00:39:47.449
and I don't know why we don't teach this more,
750
00:39:47.510 --> 00:39:49.510
but this is again why I wrote this book, is like,
751
00:39:49.849 --> 00:39:54.170
when you practice gratitude, thousands of years of knowing that
752
00:39:54.190 --> 00:39:57.230
this thing is real, we forget in Western science because
753
00:39:57.269 --> 00:40:01.090
it wasn't originally proven in double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled trials. Now
754
00:40:01.139 --> 00:40:05.440
it is. Ha ha. yay we're showing it's real congratulations
755
00:40:05.619 --> 00:40:08.699
but we've known for thousands of years right that when
756
00:40:08.760 --> 00:40:13.659
you practice gratitude for anything which is gratitude is we
757
00:40:13.679 --> 00:40:16.969
can define gratitude as the act of saying thank you
758
00:40:17.989 --> 00:40:22.349
for something good for noticing something good that could be
759
00:40:22.590 --> 00:40:26.690
earned or unearned right just something good like just being
760
00:40:26.710 --> 00:40:30.550
alive right now being able to take a breath feeling
761
00:40:30.610 --> 00:40:33.170
the sun shining down on your face and feel the
762
00:40:33.329 --> 00:40:37.469
warmth and just anything, anything you can find, when you
763
00:40:37.630 --> 00:40:42.570
express thanks for that, you feel more grateful. Absolutely. And
764
00:40:42.639 --> 00:40:47.119
when you feel more grateful over time, you start to
765
00:40:47.179 --> 00:40:53.659
embody graciousness, right? And when graciousness is like what people
766
00:40:53.719 --> 00:41:00.199
identify as patience, compassion, presence... Humility. Connection, humility, right? All
767
00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:02.940
these like very positive human characteristics that we kind of
768
00:41:03.940 --> 00:41:08.590
hold up as like very, very positive things. And that
769
00:41:09.030 --> 00:41:13.829
increases mood and that increases resilience and it decreases stress
770
00:41:13.869 --> 00:41:17.210
and anxiety. And we see this now in clinical trials.
771
00:41:17.909 --> 00:41:22.409
And when we spend time practicing this and we get
772
00:41:22.469 --> 00:41:29.699
to graciousness, then as graciousness over time becomes gracefulness. And
773
00:41:29.920 --> 00:41:34.440
gracefulness is the goal state, right? To be graceful means
774
00:41:35.139 --> 00:41:38.340
to flow with nature. Like as Bruce Lee said, it's like,
775
00:41:38.780 --> 00:41:42.980
be like water, right? Water doesn't, when water is in
776
00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:45.500
a cup, it becomes the cup. When water is in
777
00:41:45.539 --> 00:41:48.320
a stream, it becomes the stream. It doesn't enter a
778
00:41:48.380 --> 00:41:50.840
cup and be like, why am I in a cup?
779
00:41:50.860 --> 00:41:53.719
I don't want to be here, right? Water doesn't do that.
780
00:41:53.800 --> 00:41:56.840
Water just is what it is wherever it needs to be.
781
00:41:57.610 --> 00:42:00.579
If we are in a stream with water and we
782
00:42:00.659 --> 00:42:06.840
push back against it, we get overrun, right? It's painful,
783
00:42:06.860 --> 00:42:11.360
and you eventually will die resisting, right? And you'll suffer
784
00:42:11.400 --> 00:42:14.840
the whole way. And this is, again, going back to
785
00:42:14.920 --> 00:42:20.179
ancient Eastern philosophy. And so gratitude is about flowing with
786
00:42:21.340 --> 00:42:26.349
the rhythm of nature. And gracefulness is... Gratitude is the
787
00:42:26.389 --> 00:42:30.980
recognition of grace, right? It's the recognition of good things
788
00:42:31.300 --> 00:42:34.500
that are there regardless of whether we earn them or not.
789
00:42:35.139 --> 00:42:38.900
And so it creates this feedback loop of the more
790
00:42:38.940 --> 00:42:42.440
we practice gratitude, the more gracious, the more grateful we feel,
791
00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:46.289
the more gracious we are, and then the closer to
792
00:42:46.349 --> 00:42:51.210
grace we become. grace is godliness and it's a lifelong
793
00:42:51.269 --> 00:42:54.739
journey and and the more we do it the more
794
00:42:55.300 --> 00:42:58.260
it helps other people feel gratitude around us it's like
795
00:42:58.280 --> 00:43:01.980
an energy that ripples out and now studies have shown
796
00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:04.099
this so it's like for me this is so cool
797
00:43:04.139 --> 00:43:07.340
because it's neuroscience and spirituality coming face to face and
798
00:43:07.400 --> 00:43:10.690
being like we're speaking the same language right like we
799
00:43:10.909 --> 00:43:14.579
actually can show how this works That is so freaking cool.
800
00:43:14.599 --> 00:43:15.019
It is.
801
00:43:15.099 --> 00:43:17.440
It is so freaking cool. It's not all about fear
802
00:43:17.519 --> 00:43:21.340
and danger and protection and fighting and battles. It doesn't
803
00:43:21.400 --> 00:43:23.699
have to be, right? It's just, what are you paying
804
00:43:23.739 --> 00:43:25.920
attention to? Are you paying attention to what's bad and
805
00:43:25.940 --> 00:43:28.199
what's dangerous all the time with your time? Because you
806
00:43:28.239 --> 00:43:30.280
only have limited time on this earth to pay attention
807
00:43:30.300 --> 00:43:33.869
to anything. Or are you paying attention to what's good? Yeah. Right?
808
00:43:34.150 --> 00:43:36.630
And that is something that we have control over. So
809
00:43:36.750 --> 00:43:40.269
like you were saying, the mind can govern the outcome
810
00:43:40.429 --> 00:43:42.710
in a lot of ways as the stronger part.
811
00:43:43.800 --> 00:43:46.300
We have the power to decide where our attention goes.
812
00:43:46.719 --> 00:43:50.750
Sometimes I do this now and it took me 44
813
00:43:50.750 --> 00:43:51.929
years to figure this out.
814
00:43:52.030 --> 00:43:53.449
Yeah, it took me a long time. I've been under
815
00:43:53.469 --> 00:43:54.590
this shit now too, by the way.
816
00:43:55.630 --> 00:43:58.329
And for you and me both, it takes a lot
817
00:43:58.369 --> 00:44:00.030
of suffering, a lot of mistakes, a lot of things
818
00:44:00.070 --> 00:44:02.570
to go through to figure this out. But sometimes if
819
00:44:02.610 --> 00:44:05.480
you sit there and you say something out loud and
820
00:44:05.539 --> 00:44:07.960
think about it, it makes a hell of a lot
821
00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:10.300
more sense as opposed to just going through your day.
822
00:44:10.360 --> 00:44:14.070
And that's where that comes into... Time.
823
00:44:15.010 --> 00:44:17.380
So I hold a high value on time, obviously, with
824
00:44:17.800 --> 00:44:19.429
I've lost our most valuable asset.
825
00:44:19.449 --> 00:44:21.699
It's it's it. You can't buy it. You can't recreate it.
826
00:44:21.780 --> 00:44:23.119
Once it's gone, it's gone. It's gone.
827
00:44:23.179 --> 00:44:26.699
Right. So if you factor in the time that you
828
00:44:26.760 --> 00:44:30.860
spent being gracious, having gratitude, being humble, as opposed to
829
00:44:30.920 --> 00:44:35.159
the time you were stressed, fear, cocky, greedy.
830
00:44:35.559 --> 00:44:38.739
All of these negative and protecting yourself. Yes. Not accountable.
831
00:44:39.719 --> 00:44:41.900
And then you look at the time that you wasted
832
00:44:41.960 --> 00:44:45.260
doing that. and what you got from it and who
833
00:44:45.300 --> 00:44:47.739
you hurt because of it. And then you take the
834
00:44:47.800 --> 00:44:51.480
other side, the joy, the grace, everything else. Think about
835
00:44:51.539 --> 00:44:53.159
how that expands your time.
836
00:44:53.300 --> 00:44:55.340
Exactly. Because it makes it more valuable.
837
00:44:55.480 --> 00:44:55.719
Right.
838
00:44:55.880 --> 00:44:59.099
It makes you more present. So time actually literally slows
839
00:44:59.139 --> 00:45:00.699
down in gratitude. Yeah.
840
00:45:00.739 --> 00:45:03.539
You actually, that's the only way to increase your time
841
00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:05.929
is by the quality that you spend in it.
842
00:45:06.179 --> 00:45:07.059
Exactly. Right.
843
00:45:07.699 --> 00:45:10.409
And the time you spend arguing or stressing or whatever,
844
00:45:10.960 --> 00:45:14.619
it makes it go like this, and it ages you faster, right?
845
00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:17.440
So if we could just teach people a little bit
846
00:45:17.480 --> 00:45:20.000
of that, and I practice the prayer of virtue, so
847
00:45:20.039 --> 00:45:23.289
I don't pray for all this money and all this everything.
848
00:45:23.329 --> 00:45:26.949
I mean, those things, they're insignificant. If you can get
849
00:45:26.969 --> 00:45:29.889
what you're talking about, all of these virtues, the humility,
850
00:45:29.929 --> 00:45:33.750
the perseverance, the endurance, all of these things, that's how
851
00:45:33.809 --> 00:45:34.650
you add the time.
852
00:45:34.670 --> 00:45:38.230
That's the only way to buy the time, right? Because
853
00:45:38.289 --> 00:45:41.860
it enhances it. Yeah, and that's actually, That's actually one
854
00:45:41.889 --> 00:45:44.030
of the, there's these little gems in the book that
855
00:45:44.070 --> 00:45:46.190
come out as you, as people, you know, will start
856
00:45:46.210 --> 00:45:48.170
to read, they'll see that one of the things they
857
00:45:48.190 --> 00:45:50.630
talk about is like time traveling, right? And like time
858
00:45:50.670 --> 00:45:55.130
traveling is not about inventing a machine that allows us
859
00:45:55.170 --> 00:45:57.130
to go back in time or forward in time. The
860
00:45:57.250 --> 00:46:01.530
past no, no longer exists. The future has not yet
861
00:46:01.590 --> 00:46:04.409
come to be. So it also doesn't exist. The only
862
00:46:04.469 --> 00:46:08.579
time we have is right now. So the real question
863
00:46:08.639 --> 00:46:11.619
is if you want to time travel, then, or you,
864
00:46:11.780 --> 00:46:15.179
you want to consider that as a thing that could be,
865
00:46:15.679 --> 00:46:17.800
then if you want to, if you want to grow
866
00:46:17.840 --> 00:46:21.030
your time or expand your time, the way to do
867
00:46:21.090 --> 00:46:24.710
that is to be more present in the moment. The
868
00:46:24.929 --> 00:46:28.449
only moment that exists, which is right now. Yeah.
869
00:46:28.510 --> 00:46:28.789
Right.
870
00:46:29.230 --> 00:46:31.909
Right now, the more of us that is here right now,
871
00:46:32.199 --> 00:46:35.420
meaning the less of our attention is on the past
872
00:46:35.460 --> 00:46:38.030
or on the future. the more of our attention, if
873
00:46:38.050 --> 00:46:40.329
you only have 100% of your attention as a finite
874
00:46:40.369 --> 00:46:43.429
resource available to us at any time, the more of
875
00:46:43.469 --> 00:46:46.780
that that's right here right now with us together, then
876
00:46:47.260 --> 00:46:49.699
the more we take in in the moment. The more
877
00:46:49.739 --> 00:46:52.019
we take in in the moment, the more the moment
878
00:46:52.079 --> 00:46:54.960
expands and slows down. And I argue in the book
879
00:46:54.980 --> 00:46:57.519
that Einstein actually knew this, and that is kind of
880
00:46:57.579 --> 00:46:59.960
the root of what I would consider the theory of relativity,
881
00:47:00.019 --> 00:47:04.010
which is our motion and position, not necessarily just physical
882
00:47:04.090 --> 00:47:06.800
motion and position that dictates our perspective of time, It's
883
00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:10.500
our mental motion and position. So if our mental motion
884
00:47:10.519 --> 00:47:13.280
and position is in the past or the future, time
885
00:47:13.320 --> 00:47:17.110
speeds up and contracts. If our mental emotional position is,
886
00:47:17.130 --> 00:47:20.489
our mental motion and position is in the present moment,
887
00:47:21.010 --> 00:47:23.969
time dilates and slows down. And the reason why I
888
00:47:24.130 --> 00:47:28.230
know this to be true is like actually, actually scientifically
889
00:47:28.289 --> 00:47:30.949
true is because one of the most common reports of
890
00:47:30.989 --> 00:47:35.809
people who take psychedelic medicines for therapy or for whatever purposes,
891
00:47:36.269 --> 00:47:42.050
is that they experience dramatically increased gratitude, significantly increased meaning
892
00:47:42.159 --> 00:47:44.719
and love as two of the most common reports, and
893
00:47:44.739 --> 00:47:48.460
the third is that time slows down. Yeah. Right? Those
894
00:47:48.519 --> 00:47:51.639
don't exist independent of each other. They exist at the
895
00:47:51.739 --> 00:47:56.960
same time. Gratitude increases, love increases, presence and meaning increase,
896
00:47:57.079 --> 00:48:00.619
and time slows down. That is not an effect that
897
00:48:00.659 --> 00:48:04.559
is limited to gratitude. a molecular action of a psychedelic substance.
898
00:48:04.739 --> 00:48:09.269
It is something that we can create ourselves endogenously with
899
00:48:09.389 --> 00:48:13.050
our own attention. So you're like spot on there. Old
900
00:48:13.110 --> 00:48:16.179
vitamin G. I gave a speech on it the other day.
901
00:48:16.199 --> 00:48:16.639
I did.
902
00:48:16.659 --> 00:48:20.000
I talked about that's the one thing that is the
903
00:48:20.059 --> 00:48:22.199
key yeah the key if you want to get in
904
00:48:22.260 --> 00:48:24.840
full health alignment i i always say it's god first
905
00:48:24.860 --> 00:48:27.139
but it comes down to gratitude the gratitude will fix
906
00:48:27.159 --> 00:48:29.260
the mental which will then fix the physical i love
907
00:48:29.320 --> 00:48:32.300
vitamin g it is great that's great the one that
908
00:48:32.320 --> 00:48:34.880
you can't buy you got to create it you know
909
00:48:34.900 --> 00:48:36.980
what i mean yeah that's the best it's free it's
910
00:48:37.019 --> 00:48:38.840
free yeah the best stuff is free.
911
00:48:38.679 --> 00:48:40.159
Come on it is um okay so what i want
912
00:48:40.179 --> 00:48:41.199
to do then.
913
00:48:45.420 --> 00:48:48.380
Because I'm genuinely curious myself and you and I have
914
00:48:48.420 --> 00:48:51.000
never really gotten into this discussion other than on the podcast.
915
00:48:51.019 --> 00:48:53.110
We never talked about it. Yeah.
916
00:48:53.179 --> 00:48:57.130
So the MDMA treatments like I've had multiple people bring
917
00:48:57.150 --> 00:48:58.849
it up when I talk about it. And I honestly
918
00:48:58.889 --> 00:49:01.809
kind of I avoid the conversation because I want to
919
00:49:01.869 --> 00:49:04.000
save it for talking to you first before I get
920
00:49:04.059 --> 00:49:06.679
into it, because I feel like. not that you're the
921
00:49:06.820 --> 00:49:08.139
end all be all, but I feel like you're the
922
00:49:08.219 --> 00:49:10.760
most that I trust and the most well-versed that I
923
00:49:10.820 --> 00:49:12.719
want to learn from first before I go listen to
924
00:49:12.760 --> 00:49:15.590
anybody else's shit. That's kind of, yeah, it's my comfort zone,
925
00:49:15.610 --> 00:49:17.130
but I do want a little bit of insight on
926
00:49:17.170 --> 00:49:20.559
that because that is one of those topics. that you're
927
00:49:20.579 --> 00:49:23.269
going to get a million different viewpoints on, and you're
928
00:49:23.309 --> 00:49:27.760
always good about never Saying, oh, it's government, this or money.
929
00:49:27.820 --> 00:49:29.719
That's not your thing. And I love that about you
930
00:49:29.760 --> 00:49:30.960
because you just keep it real.
931
00:49:31.239 --> 00:49:33.079
Now the government's on board. Well, you see the east
932
00:49:33.119 --> 00:49:33.960
side border.
933
00:49:34.199 --> 00:49:34.679
I know.
934
00:49:34.760 --> 00:49:37.480
It's amazing. The same Republican government that shut it down
935
00:49:37.539 --> 00:49:40.019
in the 1970s just reversed it. So we'll see how
936
00:49:40.039 --> 00:49:43.219
that actually will practice. But it's pretty incredible that we're
937
00:49:43.599 --> 00:49:44.360
finally getting there.
938
00:49:44.719 --> 00:49:49.019
My first question is, why was it something that was
939
00:49:49.079 --> 00:49:51.519
viewed a certain way? And then secondly, let's just talk
940
00:49:51.559 --> 00:49:53.539
a little bit about the benefits, how it works, what
941
00:49:53.579 --> 00:49:56.739
it does. Just some basics for people that are wondering,
942
00:49:56.760 --> 00:49:59.239
because you hear that and most people are like, oh, shit.
943
00:49:59.260 --> 00:50:00.639
I'm going to go trip or whatever.
944
00:50:00.679 --> 00:50:03.090
And they don't even understand what it is or they
945
00:50:03.130 --> 00:50:06.449
think it's some illicit street drug and everything. Please break
946
00:50:06.469 --> 00:50:06.849
it down.
947
00:50:07.070 --> 00:50:11.289
So first off, the psychedelic, the word psychedelic is is
948
00:50:11.389 --> 00:50:14.110
not about drugs at all. It's about a state of
949
00:50:14.150 --> 00:50:18.969
being psyche. Psychedelic as a word was coined by Aldous
950
00:50:19.010 --> 00:50:22.949
Huxley and the author of Brave New World. Yeah. Humphrey Osmond,
951
00:50:23.010 --> 00:50:26.889
famous physician in 1950s, 1953, I think. And they came
952
00:50:26.909 --> 00:50:29.869
up with this word to describe a specific state that
953
00:50:30.429 --> 00:50:32.389
is a natural state of being, but it's a state
954
00:50:32.429 --> 00:50:36.349
that can be induced by medicines like LSD or mescaline
955
00:50:36.429 --> 00:50:40.090
or other psychedelic molecules. Because we didn't have a word
956
00:50:40.130 --> 00:50:42.449
that was appropriate at that time. And language is a
957
00:50:42.489 --> 00:50:44.889
living thing. They saw language as a living thing. And
958
00:50:44.909 --> 00:50:46.969
they said, we're going to figure out the right word
959
00:50:46.989 --> 00:50:50.659
to describe this experience, right? Knowing the limitations of language.
960
00:50:51.250 --> 00:50:54.989
And they developed this word psychedelic because psyche means mind
961
00:50:55.230 --> 00:50:57.920
in Latin and delos means to show or to reveal.
962
00:50:58.119 --> 00:51:01.880
So what psychedelic states are taking a step back from drugs,
963
00:51:02.420 --> 00:51:08.039
psychedelic states are states of being where our mind is
964
00:51:08.099 --> 00:51:11.059
revealed to us. Okay. Okay. So that's where it starts.
965
00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:14.579
And it has nothing to do with crazy 70s dance parties.
966
00:51:14.599 --> 00:51:16.219
It has nothing to do with Richard Nixon. It has
967
00:51:16.340 --> 00:51:18.489
nothing to do with the Vietnam War. It has nothing
968
00:51:18.530 --> 00:51:20.889
to do with the counterculture revolution. It has to do
969
00:51:20.929 --> 00:51:23.829
with a state of being. And that state of being
970
00:51:23.929 --> 00:51:26.909
is innate to all human beings. Well, just everything I
971
00:51:26.969 --> 00:51:29.130
ever knew just got blown up, right? So let's forget
972
00:51:29.170 --> 00:51:31.730
about all the politics and the bullshit. Let's just throw
973
00:51:31.789 --> 00:51:35.070
that away and let's come back to language, right? Language
974
00:51:35.280 --> 00:51:40.219
is very helpful in that way. So, so, um, Whenever
975
00:51:40.260 --> 00:51:41.820
I give lectures on this, I think it's really funny
976
00:51:41.860 --> 00:51:43.880
because I start talking about psychedelics and I see people
977
00:51:43.900 --> 00:51:46.980
in the crowd being like, leaning in, leaning into their friends,
978
00:51:47.000 --> 00:51:50.219
and they're like, I've never tried that. And then I'm like,
979
00:51:50.639 --> 00:51:53.570
guess what, by the way, you already have because you've
980
00:51:53.610 --> 00:51:57.849
had a dream. Dreams are the very first psychedelic experiences
981
00:51:57.889 --> 00:52:02.690
we all have. Because what happens when you dream? Your ego,
982
00:52:02.989 --> 00:52:06.429
protective mind that's protecting us and involved in all of
983
00:52:06.469 --> 00:52:10.150
our self-identity decision-making stuff during the day feels safe enough
984
00:52:10.989 --> 00:52:15.019
to relax, and then all the material from our subconscious
985
00:52:15.039 --> 00:52:19.800
and unconscious becomes aware. It enters awareness, right? That is
986
00:52:20.340 --> 00:52:22.889
our mind revealing itself to us because we're safe enough
987
00:52:23.239 --> 00:52:25.570
for what's underneath awareness to come out.
988
00:52:26.030 --> 00:52:26.449
Yes.
989
00:52:26.969 --> 00:52:30.429
So our awareness, our minds, our consciousness as a whole
990
00:52:30.469 --> 00:52:33.630
is like an iceberg, right? Only the tip of the
991
00:52:33.730 --> 00:52:37.650
iceberg is visible during our waking life. Only the tip.
992
00:52:38.130 --> 00:52:41.710
But 98% of our consciousness is still there beneath the
993
00:52:41.750 --> 00:52:44.730
surface of the water. So when we dream or enter
994
00:52:44.750 --> 00:52:48.010
a psychedelic state, could be when we're sleeping, it could
995
00:52:48.030 --> 00:52:53.139
be with meditation, mindfulness, yoga, deep breathing exercises, exercise in
996
00:52:53.219 --> 00:52:57.079
runner's high flows, soothing touch, orgasm, climax, any kind of
997
00:52:57.219 --> 00:53:01.500
different awe-inspiring, beautiful sunset, you name it, that something that
998
00:53:01.539 --> 00:53:04.900
makes you feel holy and alive, that's a psychedelic state.
999
00:53:05.559 --> 00:53:09.400
That's when... our ego feels safe enough to, our self-protective
1000
00:53:09.440 --> 00:53:12.619
part feels safe enough to relax and take a nap
1001
00:53:12.659 --> 00:53:14.639
in the backseat, right, of the road trip of our
1002
00:53:14.679 --> 00:53:17.760
lives and let someone else drive. Let some part of
1003
00:53:17.800 --> 00:53:21.909
our unconscious, subconscious, inner child drive for a little bit,
1004
00:53:22.050 --> 00:53:25.769
a minute, right? And that is psychedelic. The most common
1005
00:53:25.809 --> 00:53:29.289
experience with MDMA, for instance, which is what we were
1006
00:53:29.329 --> 00:53:32.619
talking about earlier, that's currently the most studied medicine in
1007
00:53:33.019 --> 00:53:36.820
clinical trials, psychedelic medicine in clinical trials, The most common
1008
00:53:36.860 --> 00:53:39.559
experience that people report from it that I think is
1009
00:53:39.780 --> 00:53:43.039
fascinating is they call it child's eyes. They call it
1010
00:53:43.239 --> 00:53:46.460
looking at themselves as if they were looking at themselves
1011
00:53:46.480 --> 00:53:49.750
through their eyes as a child again, right? Like, think
1012
00:53:49.809 --> 00:53:53.309
about how that is so pure. Makes so much sense
1013
00:53:53.329 --> 00:53:57.690
and so pure, right? It's not a hallucination. I hate
1014
00:53:57.750 --> 00:54:00.969
that word, hallucination, in this context because it's not a hallucination.
1015
00:54:01.449 --> 00:54:04.369
It's not. Hallucination implies it's not real, right? We're not
1016
00:54:04.429 --> 00:54:07.809
talking about something that's not real. We're talking about seeing
1017
00:54:07.949 --> 00:54:11.579
what else is real, right? What else that's real that
1018
00:54:11.940 --> 00:54:14.179
might be more real in some ways than what we're
1019
00:54:14.199 --> 00:54:17.480
missing during our day-to-day lives because we've forgotten what's real.
1020
00:54:17.980 --> 00:54:20.400
And we all have our inner child inside of us. It's,
1021
00:54:20.980 --> 00:54:23.780
in most cases, begging to come out and play more often,
1022
00:54:24.039 --> 00:54:26.789
but it doesn't feel safe. It's like knocking, like, hey,
1023
00:54:26.829 --> 00:54:29.269
is it safe yet? Right. Is it safe to come out?
1024
00:54:29.670 --> 00:54:29.869
Nope.
1025
00:54:30.309 --> 00:54:33.130
You're weak. Stay down there. Right? That's what we tell it.
1026
00:54:33.780 --> 00:54:37.070
Sometimes we take out the belt. Seriously, right? No, it's true. Like,
1027
00:54:37.090 --> 00:54:39.840
it's true. I've been at board meetings. Shut the fuck up, right? Like,
1028
00:54:39.889 --> 00:54:42.170
this is life. This is the lives that we have
1029
00:54:42.230 --> 00:54:47.409
created for ourselves. You know, like, we are Devaney. I
1030
00:54:47.909 --> 00:54:50.190
reference his quote in the book. You know, he says
1031
00:54:50.210 --> 00:54:54.190
this really great, great, great, poignant statement of, you know, we,
1032
00:54:54.210 --> 00:54:56.590
I might mess it up, but it's something to the
1033
00:54:56.610 --> 00:55:00.469
effect of, like, we are not prepared for the world
1034
00:55:00.570 --> 00:55:04.380
that we created for ourselves, right? Like we were not
1035
00:55:04.539 --> 00:55:08.119
built for this world. We accidentally created a world that's
1036
00:55:08.159 --> 00:55:13.969
designed around goals of productivity and accomplishment and status and money.
1037
00:55:14.630 --> 00:55:17.989
And that is not actually what we want. That's not
1038
00:55:18.010 --> 00:55:20.769
what our inner child wants. That's our inner child is
1039
00:55:20.789 --> 00:55:23.510
who we actually are. And in fact, I would argue,
1040
00:55:23.630 --> 00:55:25.110
and I argue this in the book, that our inner
1041
00:55:25.170 --> 00:55:27.949
child is more real than the adult selves that we created.
1042
00:55:28.489 --> 00:55:30.789
thinking that we were trying to figure out what's real.
1043
00:55:30.989 --> 00:55:32.750
So that's, these are the kinds of questions that we
1044
00:55:32.769 --> 00:55:36.199
need to start asking is like, you know, the real
1045
00:55:36.260 --> 00:55:39.219
questions of like, what, what does it really mean to
1046
00:55:39.260 --> 00:55:42.480
be alive? Right. Does it mean to accumulate the most
1047
00:55:42.579 --> 00:55:44.579
stuff and the most status or does it mean to
1048
00:55:45.199 --> 00:55:49.719
live the most fully? Yes. And that's what psychedelics teach us. Well,
1049
00:55:49.920 --> 00:55:50.579
the breakdown.
1050
00:55:50.719 --> 00:55:51.139
Amazing.
1051
00:55:51.159 --> 00:55:51.920
That's what I wanted.
1052
00:55:51.980 --> 00:55:56.360
Let me ask you this because like you said, People
1053
00:55:56.400 --> 00:55:57.579
get this wrong idea.
1054
00:55:57.599 --> 00:56:00.530
And I, shit, I do too. Like, you hear it.
1055
00:56:00.559 --> 00:56:01.590
We all do. Yeah.
1056
00:56:01.869 --> 00:56:04.989
All learned in the wrong way. We're programmed to think danger.
1057
00:56:06.150 --> 00:56:09.090
Street drug, gonna hurt me, gonna harm me. Can you
1058
00:56:09.130 --> 00:56:14.699
talk about how it's used efficiently And if there is
1059
00:56:14.880 --> 00:56:18.179
any sort of danger and, and look, if you abuse anything,
1060
00:56:18.219 --> 00:56:21.050
this is, let me just preface this for everybody. If
1061
00:56:21.090 --> 00:56:24.110
you abuse anything, you can, you can drink too much water.
1062
00:56:24.170 --> 00:56:25.329
I mean, that's extreme, but you could.
1063
00:56:25.610 --> 00:56:28.050
Yeah. You can sell yourself drinking water. Yeah. So let's
1064
00:56:28.110 --> 00:56:32.119
just look at this. I've seen it. Seriously. Oh my gosh.
1065
00:56:32.219 --> 00:56:34.659
The context of proper use. Yeah.
1066
00:56:34.880 --> 00:56:38.409
Right. just run me down some of the benefits and
1067
00:56:38.449 --> 00:56:42.139
potential risks for people or anything like that and what
1068
00:56:42.199 --> 00:56:43.800
type of people this would be good for.
1069
00:56:44.099 --> 00:56:47.460
For sure. Yeah, so psychedelic medicines, getting to the drug
1070
00:56:47.500 --> 00:56:50.019
side of it, are not a panacea. They are not
1071
00:56:50.079 --> 00:56:50.719
for everyone.
1072
00:56:50.960 --> 00:56:51.239
Yeah.
1073
00:56:51.340 --> 00:56:55.989
You know, they are profoundly altering to our consciousness. Famous,
1074
00:56:56.050 --> 00:56:58.750
very famous psychiatrist who was one of the first psychiatrists
1075
00:56:58.769 --> 00:57:02.030
to receive LSD from Albert Hoffman in the late 30s,
1076
00:57:02.090 --> 00:57:06.719
early 40s, His name is Dr. Stan Grof, still alive, brilliant,
1077
00:57:06.880 --> 00:57:10.579
brilliant man. And he was the first to coin this
1078
00:57:10.599 --> 00:57:15.559
understanding of psychedelic drugs as nonspecific amplifiers of awareness. So
1079
00:57:15.599 --> 00:57:18.489
when you think about the iceberg metaphor, right, if our
1080
00:57:18.530 --> 00:57:21.610
awareness on a normal day is just what's sticking up
1081
00:57:21.849 --> 00:57:24.809
the tip of the iceberg, we can see. There's 98%
1082
00:57:24.809 --> 00:57:27.550
of the iceberg, 98% of our consciousness is beneath the
1083
00:57:27.570 --> 00:57:30.280
surface that we are not aware of. That is not
1084
00:57:30.360 --> 00:57:34.280
just good stuff down there. It's everything. It's good stuff.
1085
00:57:34.360 --> 00:57:38.119
It's stuff that makes us really uncomfortable and squirmy. It's injured,
1086
00:57:38.219 --> 00:57:41.119
wounded parts of ourselves in the past. It's parts of
1087
00:57:41.159 --> 00:57:45.130
ourselves we forgot were there. And it's also endless joy
1088
00:57:45.170 --> 00:57:47.289
and wonder and imagination and all the good stuff of
1089
00:57:47.309 --> 00:57:53.670
our inner child, right? It's everything. So what psychedelic medicines do, even...
1090
00:57:53.489 --> 00:57:57.610
And again, when I say psychedelic medicines, I include anything...
1091
00:57:57.780 --> 00:58:01.500
that significantly alters our awareness and reveals our mind to us.
1092
00:58:01.519 --> 00:58:07.840
So this includes THC from cannabis, ketamine, psilocybin, LSD, MDMA,
1093
00:58:08.860 --> 00:58:11.980
and anything in those families. So it's not like a
1094
00:58:12.039 --> 00:58:13.550
lot of people try to break it down into like,
1095
00:58:13.860 --> 00:58:15.530
it's this or it's that. No, no, it's all of it.
1096
00:58:15.889 --> 00:58:20.150
It's anything that's altering your awareness of yourself is considered
1097
00:58:20.170 --> 00:58:23.210
a psychedelic substance. And so it just makes it simpler
1098
00:58:23.230 --> 00:58:26.369
when we think about it as That rule, right? And
1099
00:58:26.610 --> 00:58:29.989
instead of like over-reducing it, so the, or dividing it
1100
00:58:30.030 --> 00:58:32.360
into too many different families, they're all altering how we
1101
00:58:32.389 --> 00:58:37.980
see ourselves. All changing awareness. But they change awareness non-specifically.
1102
00:58:38.579 --> 00:58:42.860
So effectively, this comes back to your question, which is, well,
1103
00:58:43.340 --> 00:58:45.920
how do these, these medicines can cause harm, like any
1104
00:58:45.940 --> 00:58:48.739
medicine can cause harm when they're not used correctly. And
1105
00:58:48.960 --> 00:58:51.480
that comes down to this really important skill we don't
1106
00:58:51.519 --> 00:58:56.369
teach very well called intention, right? All humans have intention.
1107
00:58:56.989 --> 00:59:01.460
Intention or intentionality is like, what is my intention behind
1108
00:59:01.519 --> 00:59:04.300
what I'm doing, right? What is my why? What is
1109
00:59:04.340 --> 00:59:08.829
my North Star? If my North Star is to take
1110
00:59:08.849 --> 00:59:13.429
a drug to escape reality because reality feels too painful
1111
00:59:13.469 --> 00:59:16.769
right now, then guess what? I am going to increase
1112
00:59:16.809 --> 00:59:20.570
my risk of addiction and side effects and dependency because,
1113
00:59:20.590 --> 00:59:23.639
sad to say, well, not sad to say, it's just
1114
00:59:23.679 --> 00:59:26.610
the reality is there is no escape. from reality, we're here.
1115
00:59:26.829 --> 00:59:29.469
You can't escape from something that you're in. Like if
1116
00:59:29.510 --> 00:59:33.719
you just entertain the idea of escape as a fantasy
1117
00:59:34.030 --> 00:59:37.719
and then you go escape into your fantasy, guess what?
1118
00:59:37.840 --> 00:59:39.599
As soon as the fantasy wears off and the drug
1119
00:59:39.619 --> 00:59:41.860
wears off, you're right back where you started, but it's
1120
00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:45.260
way more uncomfortable because now you're like still wanting to
1121
00:59:45.300 --> 00:59:47.679
go back to the fantasy because you've convinced yourself the
1122
00:59:47.699 --> 00:59:50.579
fantasy world is real. The fantasy world is a fantasy.
1123
00:59:50.780 --> 00:59:53.380
So the most important thing about the way we use
1124
00:59:53.420 --> 00:59:56.980
medicine is not just psychedelic medicines, but medicine in general,
1125
00:59:57.199 --> 01:00:02.230
is intentionally. Intentionally means that we are using it to
1126
01:00:02.289 --> 01:00:06.030
engage reality, not to escape from reality. There is no
1127
01:00:06.090 --> 01:00:10.130
escape from reality. There is only engagement, you know, and more.
1128
01:00:10.690 --> 01:00:13.900
And so if you teach the brain to stop feeling
1129
01:00:14.099 --> 01:00:16.599
by numbing it, then when you come back, your brain
1130
01:00:16.639 --> 01:00:19.340
has just spent a bunch of time not learning how
1131
01:00:19.380 --> 01:00:22.909
to feel. or not, right? Shutting down feelings. So guess what?
1132
01:00:22.929 --> 01:00:24.809
It gets flooded by more feeling and it's like, oh,
1133
01:00:24.889 --> 01:00:27.030
I want to go back there now. Yeah, right? And
1134
01:00:27.150 --> 01:00:30.829
that's what makes the drug, whether it's heroin or opiates
1135
01:00:30.869 --> 01:00:34.340
or benzos or cocaine or whatever it is, or psychedelics,
1136
01:00:34.679 --> 01:00:37.139
which have the lowest addiction profile of all of it,
1137
01:00:37.519 --> 01:00:40.679
they are the least addictive and probably safest of all
1138
01:00:40.699 --> 01:00:43.619
of these drugs I just mentioned. Lowest toxicity profile, but
1139
01:00:43.780 --> 01:00:45.880
anything can be addictive if you use it to escape.
1140
01:00:46.059 --> 01:00:49.579
I've seen people who do hundreds of ayahuasca ceremonies and
1141
01:00:49.599 --> 01:00:52.059
they're like, But I'm still not where I want to be.
1142
01:00:52.079 --> 01:00:53.980
I'm like, did you ever think that maybe that's not
1143
01:00:54.019 --> 01:00:57.510
the right, right? It's not working for you, bro. Like
1144
01:00:57.550 --> 01:01:00.369
your intention might be off, you know, right?
1145
01:01:00.590 --> 01:01:00.789
Yeah.
1146
01:01:00.829 --> 01:01:03.150
And so it's like the intention is our human energy
1147
01:01:03.190 --> 01:01:06.829
and our intention or actions must be aligned. So your
1148
01:01:06.849 --> 01:01:09.750
intentions to escape, but you're doing the right action, right?
1149
01:01:10.050 --> 01:01:13.340
Ayahuasca for as one example, can heal people, psychedelic therapy
1150
01:01:13.360 --> 01:01:15.820
and heal people. But if your intentions do it to escape,
1151
01:01:16.570 --> 01:01:19.769
then your action of doing the healing practice with a
1152
01:01:20.130 --> 01:01:23.750
misaligned intention of escape is not going to get you
1153
01:01:23.769 --> 01:01:26.730
to manifest your goals of healing because they're not aligned.
1154
01:01:27.050 --> 01:01:30.050
So we need to align the use of the action
1155
01:01:30.230 --> 01:01:34.559
with the intention, and the intention is to engage. Engagement
1156
01:01:34.699 --> 01:01:37.920
is what leads to healing. Engaging with ourselves, engaging with
1157
01:01:37.960 --> 01:01:41.900
the world around us more effectively, bridging the gap of
1158
01:01:42.039 --> 01:01:46.000
what we perceive to be division. Division is disconnection. Disconnection
1159
01:01:46.119 --> 01:01:50.429
is causes distress and distress causes disease so we really
1160
01:01:50.469 --> 01:01:53.650
want to get away from that and get to more connection.
1161
01:01:53.409 --> 01:01:56.440
Yes right so here because I don't know the answer
1162
01:01:56.460 --> 01:01:58.800
to this this is my assumption from what you're saying
1163
01:01:58.840 --> 01:02:01.440
and I could be completely off but I would assume
1164
01:02:01.500 --> 01:02:04.190
then based upon what you just laid out on a
1165
01:02:05.550 --> 01:02:08.130
like an MDMA type of therapy or whatever, this is
1166
01:02:08.170 --> 01:02:10.369
something that you wouldn't require you to do a ton
1167
01:02:10.389 --> 01:02:12.670
of it. Like you'd get that experience. It would start
1168
01:02:12.710 --> 01:02:14.409
to bring that out of you. And it's like, I
1169
01:02:14.429 --> 01:02:16.570
don't need to do this every day, like a medication
1170
01:02:16.630 --> 01:02:17.659
or anything like that.
1171
01:02:17.860 --> 01:02:21.019
Yeah, not at all. Yeah. In the actual treatments, like
1172
01:02:21.079 --> 01:02:24.019
whether you use psilocybin in the trials or MDMA or
1173
01:02:24.079 --> 01:02:26.860
ketamine in our clinic and, you know, or in some,
1174
01:02:26.920 --> 01:02:29.539
many of the psychotherapy clinics that do it well, it's
1175
01:02:29.699 --> 01:02:35.559
one to 12 doses over a year. Not daily. And
1176
01:02:35.579 --> 01:02:38.440
then you're done for a while. One to 12 doses,
1177
01:02:38.699 --> 01:02:42.300
not daily. It's a stark contrast to what we do
1178
01:02:42.400 --> 01:02:46.530
in traditional, what we call like stabilization medicine, which has
1179
01:02:46.590 --> 01:02:49.809
its place in Western medicine. Stabilizing people is important when
1180
01:02:49.829 --> 01:02:52.530
they're really off. You can't use psychedelic medicines when people
1181
01:02:52.590 --> 01:02:56.670
are really off the rails. So we have to stabilize
1182
01:02:56.690 --> 01:02:59.139
people first. But when we're actually trying to get to
1183
01:02:59.159 --> 01:03:04.099
the root cause after we've achieved stability, psychedelic medicines are
1184
01:03:04.440 --> 01:03:08.760
working these, they create punctuation marks in your life, right?
1185
01:03:08.900 --> 01:03:11.420
That's what they're doing. And they create, it's like if
1186
01:03:11.440 --> 01:03:12.760
you think about it from a video game analogy, I
1187
01:03:12.780 --> 01:03:15.789
know you're in here, it's a save point, right? You're
1188
01:03:15.809 --> 01:03:18.969
creating a save point. And then there's a save point
1189
01:03:18.989 --> 01:03:22.670
you could always go back to. And it's not for everyone,
1190
01:03:22.690 --> 01:03:27.179
like people who have, you know, Diagnosed schizophrenia, bipolar disorder,
1191
01:03:27.239 --> 01:03:31.920
psychotic disorder, severe personality disorder. These people are not good
1192
01:03:31.940 --> 01:03:34.719
candidates for psychedelics. We do not recommend that you use them,
1193
01:03:34.989 --> 01:03:39.210
even with a highly trained doctor. Very, very dangerous. And
1194
01:03:39.230 --> 01:03:42.590
you can worsen your symptoms dramatically by using them. Definitely,
1195
01:03:42.630 --> 01:03:44.409
if you have one of those diagnoses, do not use
1196
01:03:44.429 --> 01:03:47.730
them recreationally. Stay far, far away. But for people who
1197
01:03:47.849 --> 01:03:50.809
don't have those risks and who don't have a family
1198
01:03:50.849 --> 01:03:54.570
history of those things, than like an immediate first degree
1199
01:03:54.639 --> 01:03:59.739
relative family history when these medicines are administered properly with guidance.
1200
01:04:00.300 --> 01:04:04.039
Guidance is really important because again, the medicine amplifies what
1201
01:04:04.079 --> 01:04:07.579
you bring in. It amplifies your mindset and it amplifies
1202
01:04:07.619 --> 01:04:10.679
your setting. If your setting is filled with uncertainty and
1203
01:04:10.820 --> 01:04:14.590
fear and anxiety, that's what gets amplified by the medicine.
1204
01:04:15.489 --> 01:04:17.889
If your environment and your setting and your mindset has
1205
01:04:17.929 --> 01:04:21.840
been cultivated through working with a trained practitioner like myself
1206
01:04:21.920 --> 01:04:24.940
or someone who understands how to do this work and
1207
01:04:25.019 --> 01:04:28.480
guide you, or like an indigenous lineage trained shaman, for instance,
1208
01:04:28.980 --> 01:04:31.710
that creates the safe space for you to have this
1209
01:04:31.789 --> 01:04:36.949
vulnerable experience of reconnecting with yourself and the world, then you,
1210
01:04:37.250 --> 01:04:41.500
the medicine amplifies safety. And when you amplify safety. you
1211
01:04:41.659 --> 01:04:44.840
help people feel safe enough to remake meaning around past
1212
01:04:44.860 --> 01:04:48.460
traumatic events. And then healing starts to unfold because the
1213
01:04:48.559 --> 01:04:51.380
vulnerable injured parts of us feel safe enough to come
1214
01:04:51.460 --> 01:04:52.480
out to the surface.
1215
01:04:53.380 --> 01:04:57.849
So if you do one of the treatments, ayahuasca retreat,
1216
01:04:58.750 --> 01:05:02.650
ketamine treatment, do they act similarly in how they work?
1217
01:05:02.989 --> 01:05:05.949
Or is there a differentiation? Like, I mean, what's the
1218
01:05:06.010 --> 01:05:08.369
difference between some of the ones you mentioned? Let's just
1219
01:05:08.409 --> 01:05:10.130
say ketamine and MDMA and.
1220
01:05:11.010 --> 01:05:14.099
Yeah, I mean, so for a long time, we looked
1221
01:05:14.119 --> 01:05:17.260
at these things as all separate and different. What I
1222
01:05:17.300 --> 01:05:20.519
think we're starting to see from the recent trials that
1223
01:05:20.559 --> 01:05:23.780
we've been doing is, and, you know, first off, like,
1224
01:05:24.230 --> 01:05:28.590
just phenomenologically, like, when you look at, like, how is medicine,
1225
01:05:28.670 --> 01:05:32.690
how is ayahuasca being used to treat mental health crises
1226
01:05:32.789 --> 01:05:35.880
in the jungle, in the traditional setting, in the Amazon?
1227
01:05:36.500 --> 01:05:40.099
And then how is MDMA, how are MDMA and ketamine
1228
01:05:40.119 --> 01:05:43.619
being used in Western, modern Western approaches? They're all being
1229
01:05:43.679 --> 01:05:46.260
used to treat trauma. So that was the first clue
1230
01:05:46.300 --> 01:05:49.440
to me, which was that when I started to look
1231
01:05:49.460 --> 01:05:54.070
at how all these different experiences are being used, all
1232
01:05:54.090 --> 01:05:56.769
these different medicines are being used, yeah, molecularly, they have
1233
01:05:56.809 --> 01:06:01.130
some similarities, but they're different. And the protocols are different.
1234
01:06:01.710 --> 01:06:06.710
It's still... is medicine amplifying safety in a clinical ceremony
1235
01:06:06.809 --> 01:06:09.309
or in a tribal ceremony that helps people feel safe
1236
01:06:09.369 --> 01:06:12.670
enough to remake meaning around past traumatic events. So from
1237
01:06:12.690 --> 01:06:15.449
the shamanic perspective, they look at it as spiritual energy alignment.
1238
01:06:15.630 --> 01:06:20.570
From the Western psychiatric perspective, my surgeon colleagues call it psychosurgery.
1239
01:06:21.199 --> 01:06:21.480
Right?
1240
01:06:21.780 --> 01:06:23.719
So, like, which it is. Like, I feel like... It
1241
01:06:23.760 --> 01:06:26.119
makes sense. Like, I'm tying a rope to myself and
1242
01:06:26.159 --> 01:06:29.429
tying a rope to, like, a pillar of the room
1243
01:06:29.469 --> 01:06:31.590
over there, and I'm, like, diving into your consciousness with
1244
01:06:31.650 --> 01:06:33.969
you and helping you feel safe enough to fix stuff
1245
01:06:33.989 --> 01:06:37.429
down there and allow the traumatized, hurt, injured parts to
1246
01:06:37.449 --> 01:06:41.559
come out and reassemble into part of the whole. Right. So,
1247
01:06:42.059 --> 01:06:45.460
they're all getting to the root cause, which is unprocessed,
1248
01:06:46.119 --> 01:06:50.019
unhealed trauma that blocks our energy from flowing freely as
1249
01:06:50.099 --> 01:06:54.369
the tribes people say so like from that perspective they're
1250
01:06:54.389 --> 01:06:58.610
the same okay from the from the but but we
1251
01:06:58.869 --> 01:07:01.070
for many years i've looked at them as different and
1252
01:07:01.090 --> 01:07:04.170
they do have chemical differences what's different about them chemically
1253
01:07:04.230 --> 01:07:07.849
is how long they last right how intense the experience
1254
01:07:08.030 --> 01:07:11.010
is what kind of experience is it is it more
1255
01:07:11.050 --> 01:07:15.190
like interpersonal connecting like but your eyes open in interaction
1256
01:07:15.619 --> 01:07:20.670
Or is it more internal, closed eyes, deep introspective, like meditative, right? Okay.
1257
01:07:20.730 --> 01:07:23.750
And so they all have different kinds of experiences like that,
1258
01:07:23.949 --> 01:07:26.530
but they all get to the same root cause, which
1259
01:07:26.610 --> 01:07:31.159
is unprocessed, unhealed, injured parts of ourselves, like helping repair
1260
01:07:31.360 --> 01:07:35.699
broken emotional bones. Yeah. Right? Like that's what they're doing.
1261
01:07:36.179 --> 01:07:39.380
It's just like healing a physical bone in the emergency room.
1262
01:07:39.619 --> 01:07:42.300
It's just an emotional broken bone, and that emotional broken
1263
01:07:42.320 --> 01:07:43.300
bone is self-trust.
1264
01:07:43.590 --> 01:07:46.369
Yeah. So is it feasible for someone to go in
1265
01:07:46.389 --> 01:07:48.210
there and do it once and just come out changed
1266
01:07:48.269 --> 01:07:50.449
and never need it again, or is that just ridiculous?
1267
01:07:50.650 --> 01:07:53.590
No, it does happen. I mean, we say to people,
1268
01:07:53.730 --> 01:07:57.489
don't have expectations. Also, the tribes people say, don't have
1269
01:07:57.550 --> 01:08:01.360
expectations because expectations set you up for disappointment. Going blindly, right? Right.
1270
01:08:01.400 --> 01:08:04.199
So we never tell people that's what's going to happen
1271
01:08:04.219 --> 01:08:05.820
because we don't know that that's what's going to happen.
1272
01:08:06.489 --> 01:08:09.550
But I can tell you, I just interviewed for the
1273
01:08:09.630 --> 01:08:15.070
Psychedelic Report a few days ago, I interviewed a military veteran,
1274
01:08:15.110 --> 01:08:17.930
Benjamin Forrest, who wrote a book called Trip of a
1275
01:08:17.970 --> 01:08:21.689
Lifetime that was about his first experience with psilocybin mushrooms
1276
01:08:22.289 --> 01:08:24.810
when he was struggling with severe depression that would just
1277
01:08:24.970 --> 01:08:27.890
not get better. And he was one of those people
1278
01:08:28.210 --> 01:08:31.590
who went in, single dose of psilocybin in a group setting.
1279
01:08:31.750 --> 01:08:34.470
It was really like a really safe container for him
1280
01:08:34.489 --> 01:08:37.479
to just be himself and and let all of his
1281
01:08:37.520 --> 01:08:42.220
parts his injured parts come out and grieve his sadness
1282
01:08:42.239 --> 01:08:45.279
and loss from all the challenging experience he's had like
1283
01:08:45.310 --> 01:08:48.010
loss of family members and that kind of thing and
1284
01:08:48.050 --> 01:08:52.710
within one experience he wrote this book definitively changed like
1285
01:08:52.750 --> 01:08:56.630
definitively changed because he had allowed his he was he
1286
01:08:56.649 --> 01:08:59.649
had allowed his emotions to be felt and processed in
1287
01:08:59.670 --> 01:09:02.050
that experience in a way he had never felt safe
1288
01:09:02.090 --> 01:09:05.289
enough to do before. It was too sensitive. It was too,
1289
01:09:05.569 --> 01:09:07.770
he had been taught. It was too weak to, to
1290
01:09:07.880 --> 01:09:10.409
feel right. Like same things we're talking about at the
1291
01:09:10.439 --> 01:09:13.239
beginning of this show. And so he, within one dose
1292
01:09:13.939 --> 01:09:16.979
was changed. Yeah. And it, and we see that in
1293
01:09:17.020 --> 01:09:20.140
some of the psilocybin studies for depression and that one
1294
01:09:20.220 --> 01:09:23.520
single dose done in the right way can actually result
1295
01:09:23.619 --> 01:09:27.850
in long-lasting benefits that last and are still detect major
1296
01:09:27.890 --> 01:09:31.670
benefits that are more intense, more like significant benefits than
1297
01:09:31.789 --> 01:09:36.050
people get from SSRI antidepressants. Six months, 12 months out,
1298
01:09:36.149 --> 01:09:39.949
people are still feeling really great and feeling healed. But
1299
01:09:40.289 --> 01:09:43.060
more often than not, I would say, I've also seen
1300
01:09:43.069 --> 01:09:45.680
that with ketamine. We've seen that with MDMA. More often
1301
01:09:45.699 --> 01:09:48.460
than not, it usually takes a few doses of medicine,
1302
01:09:49.079 --> 01:09:51.779
Like one to three doses at least and a bunch
1303
01:09:51.800 --> 01:09:55.189
of therapy, right? Like you can't ignore the talk therapy
1304
01:09:55.199 --> 01:09:59.069
part because the talk therapy is the preparation for the experience.
1305
01:09:59.090 --> 01:10:02.670
Make sure you're ready and you're ready to feel safe
1306
01:10:02.710 --> 01:10:05.369
enough to let go and allow the medicine to show
1307
01:10:05.409 --> 01:10:08.010
you what you were meant to be experiencing during the experience.
1308
01:10:08.350 --> 01:10:11.289
You allow yourself to feel safe enough to look underneath
1309
01:10:11.310 --> 01:10:13.329
the surface of the water to the rest of the iceberg.
1310
01:10:13.350 --> 01:10:17.529
Whatever comes up is fair game, right? You allow. And
1311
01:10:17.569 --> 01:10:20.930
if you're safe enough to allow, then healing can happen.
1312
01:10:21.050 --> 01:10:24.289
Vulnerability can come to the surface and be healed. And
1313
01:10:24.310 --> 01:10:26.770
then the second part of the talk therapy that's really
1314
01:10:26.810 --> 01:10:29.260
critical is what we call integration, which is what happens after.
1315
01:10:29.729 --> 01:10:33.300
Because psychedelic medicines have this way of disintegrating your ego
1316
01:10:33.359 --> 01:10:36.680
protective parts. And so what has to happen afterwards is
1317
01:10:36.699 --> 01:10:40.880
you have to reintegrate your ego and protective parts, honoring
1318
01:10:40.939 --> 01:10:44.720
them for protecting you, not dismissing them, not throwing them away.
1319
01:10:45.119 --> 01:10:47.800
They're not, they're not bad. They're just protecting you. They
1320
01:10:47.819 --> 01:10:50.670
thought there was danger. Right. They're like, it's like a really, uh,
1321
01:10:51.210 --> 01:10:53.430
you know, it's like the most advanced alarm system in
1322
01:10:53.449 --> 01:10:54.890
the world. It's actually been triggered to go off at
1323
01:10:54.909 --> 01:10:58.090
the wrong times. Right. Like that's what it is. And
1324
01:10:58.130 --> 01:11:01.010
so we don't want to turn the alarm off forever.
1325
01:11:01.109 --> 01:11:04.670
We don't want to tell the alarm that it's, it's bad.
1326
01:11:04.789 --> 01:11:07.260
It's not bad. It's just incorrectly calibrated.
1327
01:11:07.479 --> 01:11:07.779
Right.
1328
01:11:08.100 --> 01:11:11.579
And so then the integration is, is, is, is taking
1329
01:11:11.640 --> 01:11:14.770
that for those protective parts of ourselves and And then
1330
01:11:14.949 --> 01:11:19.170
like understanding how those now fit in, knowing that you're safe,
1331
01:11:19.489 --> 01:11:21.510
knowing that you don't have to be on guard all
1332
01:11:21.550 --> 01:11:24.539
the time. And how does that now integrate and fit
1333
01:11:24.560 --> 01:11:27.359
in with your sensitive parts? And then what is your
1334
01:11:27.420 --> 01:11:29.880
life look like now on a moment to moment, day
1335
01:11:29.899 --> 01:11:31.859
to day basis when you actually feel safe in your
1336
01:11:31.899 --> 01:11:35.189
own skin for the first time in maybe decades? I
1337
01:11:35.229 --> 01:11:37.489
got it. But for the effects to be long lasting.
1338
01:11:37.770 --> 01:11:41.039
That integration has to be there. Otherwise, oftentimes people just
1339
01:11:41.079 --> 01:11:42.800
get confused with what to do after. Right.
1340
01:11:43.119 --> 01:11:44.880
That's what I was going to ask you next was
1341
01:11:44.939 --> 01:11:48.319
about like, what's the steps? Cause I just think Burning Man, dude,
1342
01:11:48.359 --> 01:11:50.340
like that's all I could think of was that, that
1343
01:11:50.380 --> 01:11:52.739
experience and then whatever they tell you there and that's it.
1344
01:11:52.779 --> 01:11:56.100
So for you, it's like, this is a, this is
1345
01:11:56.159 --> 01:11:59.220
a really like dramatic type of layout almost where we
1346
01:11:59.260 --> 01:12:01.520
have to go through stages and there's a lot of
1347
01:12:01.579 --> 01:12:02.539
talking and understanding.
1348
01:12:02.560 --> 01:12:03.180
Cause I figure.
1349
01:12:04.020 --> 01:12:07.159
That there are certain categories of people that would qualify
1350
01:12:07.199 --> 01:12:10.529
for this. People with trauma, people with depression, anxiety, high
1351
01:12:10.609 --> 01:12:12.689
stress levels. Those are the type of people that would
1352
01:12:12.710 --> 01:12:13.529
be coming to you, right?
1353
01:12:14.050 --> 01:12:16.369
I mean, the people who come to me usually are
1354
01:12:16.409 --> 01:12:18.689
people who have mental illness that they've been trying to
1355
01:12:18.710 --> 01:12:22.369
treat for years. Everything under the sun and the traditional
1356
01:12:22.390 --> 01:12:25.899
way and nothing makes a dent. So I see people
1357
01:12:26.000 --> 01:12:28.680
who predominantly are what we call treatment. Western medicine has
1358
01:12:28.720 --> 01:12:32.250
labeled them as treatment-resistant mental illness. I see lots of people,
1359
01:12:32.529 --> 01:12:34.510
but that's just the majority of the people that I see.
1360
01:12:34.529 --> 01:12:36.270
And then a bunch of people in my practice are
1361
01:12:36.289 --> 01:12:40.090
people who've had really bad psychedelic experiences with people who
1362
01:12:40.130 --> 01:12:42.989
are untrained providers or they accidentally overdosed themselves in the
1363
01:12:43.029 --> 01:12:47.079
wrong environment and then got set back. And so then
1364
01:12:47.579 --> 01:12:50.199
they work with me to bring them back to their
1365
01:12:50.720 --> 01:12:54.159
fully functioning state prior to taking medicine. I see. So
1366
01:12:54.180 --> 01:12:56.939
I would say that's like 40-50% of the patients I
1367
01:12:57.000 --> 01:13:01.020
see are actually people who have accidentally re-traumatized themselves with psychedelics.
1368
01:13:01.439 --> 01:13:04.720
So that's why I'm so bullish and passionate around teaching
1369
01:13:04.760 --> 01:13:07.439
people how to use these medicines properly and how not
1370
01:13:07.500 --> 01:13:12.029
to use them incorrectly because you can totally fuck yourself
1371
01:13:12.170 --> 01:13:15.010
up if you don't do it right. I believe it.
1372
01:13:15.210 --> 01:13:19.170
They're very powerful. They are amongst, easily amongst the most
1373
01:13:19.250 --> 01:13:22.939
powerful medical tools we have ever had access to as
1374
01:13:23.000 --> 01:13:26.199
human beings. Wow. So we need to treat them with respect. Yeah.
1375
01:13:26.300 --> 01:13:29.060
And in doing so, treat ourselves with respect. Oh, yeah, 100%. Yeah.
1376
01:13:30.369 --> 01:13:32.350
I went through this with years with people wanting to
1377
01:13:32.649 --> 01:13:35.310
run testosterone on their own and explain like, you just,
1378
01:13:35.789 --> 01:13:36.810
you just don't know what you're doing.
1379
01:13:36.970 --> 01:13:39.289
And it's not wise. Like all medicine has to be
1380
01:13:39.310 --> 01:13:41.289
treated with respect that if you take too much Tylenol,
1381
01:13:41.310 --> 01:13:44.010
you'll kill your liver and you'll die. Absolutely. You take
1382
01:13:44.029 --> 01:13:46.409
too much ibuprofen. These are over the counter drugs. Take
1383
01:13:46.430 --> 01:13:48.890
too much ibuprofen. You'll kill your kidneys and you'll die.
1384
01:13:48.909 --> 01:13:50.979
Toxic vitamins. I mean, right. You know what?
1385
01:13:51.069 --> 01:13:51.350
Yeah.
1386
01:13:51.399 --> 01:13:53.239
So it's like everything has to be treated with respect,
1387
01:13:53.319 --> 01:13:57.600
but these medicines. Another level. Yeah. Well, they're not. People
1388
01:13:57.659 --> 01:14:02.310
get lulled into a sense of safety because. it's almost
1389
01:14:02.350 --> 01:14:04.630
impossible to overdose on mushrooms in a way that you
1390
01:14:04.689 --> 01:14:08.710
can't kill yourself with mushroom toxicity from psilocybin mushrooms. Your
1391
01:14:08.750 --> 01:14:11.590
body can take a huge amount of mushrooms and not
1392
01:14:11.890 --> 01:14:13.010
physically die.
1393
01:14:13.029 --> 01:14:14.250
But mentally?
1394
01:14:14.270 --> 01:14:18.329
But mentally, your ego takes a major hit. Same with ketamine.
1395
01:14:18.350 --> 01:14:19.930
You can take a huge amount of ketamine, a huge
1396
01:14:19.970 --> 01:14:23.710
amount of LSD, and physically, what we call the LD50,
1397
01:14:24.130 --> 01:14:26.489
which is like the 50% of the dose required to
1398
01:14:28.960 --> 01:14:33.359
To result in somebody having like a biological episode that
1399
01:14:33.399 --> 01:14:37.069
would be physically impairing to you or causing death, the
1400
01:14:37.149 --> 01:14:40.829
LD50 is very high. So like pharmacologically, they're very safe drugs.
1401
01:14:40.850 --> 01:14:44.069
They're much safer than Tylenol and ibuprofen. Much safer than alcohol.
1402
01:14:44.310 --> 01:14:47.060
Everything's safer than alcohol, man. But that's another story. But
1403
01:14:47.100 --> 01:14:49.680
that's the, but I think that's where people get confused.
1404
01:14:49.699 --> 01:14:51.810
And so they're like, oh, I can just take. a
1405
01:14:51.850 --> 01:14:54.770
bunch of like cannabis, like you couldn't ingest enough THC
1406
01:14:54.789 --> 01:14:56.810
to kill you. It would be so hard. You would
1407
01:14:56.880 --> 01:15:00.079
have to eat pounds of weed for days. Right. So like,
1408
01:15:00.380 --> 01:15:04.000
that's where people get confused, but they still, they still
1409
01:15:04.039 --> 01:15:06.960
will take a tremendous toll on your mental, emotional body.
1410
01:15:07.000 --> 01:15:09.060
And so we have to treat that with respect because
1411
01:15:09.100 --> 01:15:13.600
they're so powerful as mental, emotional tooling tools. Anything like that.
1412
01:15:13.640 --> 01:15:17.199
I spent 40 years smoking pot till I quit three
1413
01:15:17.239 --> 01:15:20.989
years ago. And I'll tell you what, man, And I
1414
01:15:21.010 --> 01:15:21.890
want to relate this to them.
1415
01:15:21.909 --> 01:15:26.170
You've been smoking since you were four? Shit, I wish. Eleven. Wow.
1416
01:15:26.210 --> 01:15:28.329
Yeah. And I stopped when I was 41. I gave
1417
01:15:28.350 --> 01:15:28.989
it up for Lent.
1418
01:15:29.229 --> 01:15:32.310
I'll bet you felt a lot more clear. I haven't
1419
01:15:32.329 --> 01:15:34.810
smoked since. Yeah. Three years ago. I haven't smoked since.
1420
01:15:34.869 --> 01:15:36.609
And I feel like a million dollars better.
1421
01:15:36.630 --> 01:15:38.029
And that's where I was kind of going with this
1422
01:15:38.090 --> 01:15:39.590
is they got to the point where it was causing
1423
01:15:39.630 --> 01:15:42.270
me harm. I used to say, but it helps me
1424
01:15:42.529 --> 01:15:45.510
pay more attention and study more. I had panic attacks
1425
01:15:45.569 --> 01:15:48.329
every night. After a while, I couldn't stop. And it
1426
01:15:48.369 --> 01:15:50.890
did a role reversal on me because I misused it.
1427
01:15:51.060 --> 01:15:54.260
Exactly. Even after all that time. Yep. And that's where
1428
01:15:54.279 --> 01:15:55.500
I was kind of going to go back to this.
1429
01:15:55.619 --> 01:15:57.760
When you were talking about people that misuse it and
1430
01:15:57.779 --> 01:16:01.220
you have to bring them back, I mean, that could really,
1431
01:16:01.399 --> 01:16:03.939
really destroy your mind, couldn't it? I mean, just actually
1432
01:16:04.060 --> 01:16:06.640
alter it to a state where you're just worse off
1433
01:16:06.659 --> 01:16:08.000
than far than you were before.
1434
01:16:08.020 --> 01:16:12.300
For sure, yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, because it distorts thinking. Yeah. Right?
1435
01:16:12.399 --> 01:16:18.119
But I think in... Shipibo and Amazonian cultures, they call
1436
01:16:18.140 --> 01:16:21.500
it the Shatana, which is the dark energy of a
1437
01:16:21.579 --> 01:16:24.029
plant that manifests inside of us when we abuse or
1438
01:16:24.050 --> 01:16:27.850
misuse it or disrespect the plant. we invite the dark
1439
01:16:27.949 --> 01:16:29.949
energy of that plant into us. And they also have
1440
01:16:29.989 --> 01:16:32.399
another word that it's escaping me for the light energy
1441
01:16:32.409 --> 01:16:34.560
of the plant that comes out when we heal ourselves
1442
01:16:34.619 --> 01:16:37.720
with it by using it respectfully. The point is that's
1443
01:16:37.939 --> 01:16:40.819
a different lens of looking at the exact same thing
1444
01:16:40.859 --> 01:16:44.840
that we're talking about that is now clearly validated with science.
1445
01:16:45.260 --> 01:16:48.739
Just because it comes from indigenous people doesn't mean that
1446
01:16:49.159 --> 01:16:52.159
it's not true. Like those words, that word shatana was
1447
01:16:52.199 --> 01:16:54.319
not a word that was developed in a lab, but
1448
01:16:54.340 --> 01:16:57.260
it's a word that describes the same phenomena That we
1449
01:16:57.300 --> 01:17:02.399
experience when people abuse medicine in Western culture. But the
1450
01:17:02.439 --> 01:17:06.640
good news is that for anyone who's struggling with addiction
1451
01:17:06.659 --> 01:17:09.609
or substance abuse or dependence, which is a specialty that
1452
01:17:09.710 --> 01:17:14.329
I specifically work on, is the good news is that
1453
01:17:14.409 --> 01:17:17.850
you can heal. Yeah. Like, all it takes is making
1454
01:17:17.890 --> 01:17:21.590
the decision to say, no, I'm going home. To stop,
1455
01:17:21.729 --> 01:17:24.109
I'm going to change my relationship to this substance, to
1456
01:17:24.149 --> 01:17:26.859
this plant, because I respect myself enough to do it.
1457
01:17:26.859 --> 01:17:32.359
I respect my autonomy, my agency, and that I have control. Yeah.
1458
01:17:32.659 --> 01:17:35.979
And when you start showing that respect to yourself and
1459
01:17:36.000 --> 01:17:38.579
thereby showing that respect to the plant or the substance,
1460
01:17:39.119 --> 01:17:41.449
all of a sudden your relationship with it completely changes.
1461
01:17:41.869 --> 01:17:45.449
And then you might be abstinent for a while from it. Yeah.
1462
01:17:45.550 --> 01:17:49.750
But then over time you can, with enough discipline and thoughtfulness,
1463
01:17:50.270 --> 01:17:53.350
potentially start to have a relationship with it again that's
1464
01:17:53.390 --> 01:17:56.859
respectful in a healing way or a way that it
1465
01:17:56.880 --> 01:18:01.319
facilitates pleasure, but not abuse. So they think like that's,
1466
01:18:01.359 --> 01:18:04.380
there's a fine line where we get caught up because
1467
01:18:04.960 --> 01:18:08.310
we start using it for escape from discomfort rather than
1468
01:18:08.369 --> 01:18:12.329
for engagement with pleasure. Engagement with pleasure means respectful use
1469
01:18:12.470 --> 01:18:15.529
once in a while and moderation does not mean every day,
1470
01:18:15.609 --> 01:18:20.300
all day, right? And we've all fallen into that pattern
1471
01:18:20.319 --> 01:18:22.060
in different ways in our lives, like whether it was
1472
01:18:22.119 --> 01:18:25.680
with work or sex or gambling or like, you know,
1473
01:18:25.699 --> 01:18:28.199
video games, right? People get addicted to video games. Yeah.
1474
01:18:28.229 --> 01:18:31.250
People get addicted to social media now. I coined the
1475
01:18:31.289 --> 01:18:34.750
social media addiction in the book because people deny that
1476
01:18:34.789 --> 01:18:37.930
social media is addictive. Guess what? It is. It's just
1477
01:18:37.949 --> 01:18:40.569
as addictive as video games, gambling, or drugs.
1478
01:18:40.770 --> 01:18:41.029
Yeah.
1479
01:18:41.109 --> 01:18:43.380
Right? In some ways more so because it's right there
1480
01:18:43.399 --> 01:18:45.699
and it's socially acceptable and encouraged. Yeah.
1481
01:18:46.020 --> 01:18:53.260
No. When we're talking about forms of like MDMA, ketamine,
1482
01:18:53.579 --> 01:18:56.600
and psilocybin, is that all mushrooms or how is that ingested?
1483
01:18:57.399 --> 01:19:01.119
Well, it just depends on the environment and the medicine.
1484
01:19:01.239 --> 01:19:03.829
So it comes in different forms? Yeah. So psilocybin comes
1485
01:19:03.850 --> 01:19:09.300
from mushrooms. Mushrooms grow in cow dung. Traditionally now they
1486
01:19:09.380 --> 01:19:12.119
grow them in all different kinds of things. Yeah. You with,
1487
01:19:12.279 --> 01:19:16.180
with psilocybin mushrooms, you eat them orally or you eat
1488
01:19:16.199 --> 01:19:19.380
like an extract. MDMA is oral. You take it orally.
1489
01:19:19.779 --> 01:19:23.340
That's primarily how it's used. Ketamine is not, is broken
1490
01:19:23.380 --> 01:19:26.090
down almost entirely by the gut when you take it orally.
1491
01:19:26.149 --> 01:19:28.189
So we don't really use it orally. We use it
1492
01:19:28.250 --> 01:19:31.130
what's called sublingually. So you use it by swishing it
1493
01:19:31.170 --> 01:19:33.829
in your mouth or we do injections or IV. Other
1494
01:19:33.869 --> 01:19:37.850
medicines like LSD. can go through the skin or be
1495
01:19:38.010 --> 01:19:42.229
orally ingested. LSD is hands down the most potent psychedelic
1496
01:19:42.250 --> 01:19:44.970
that we've ever discovered. It was actually helped us discover
1497
01:19:44.989 --> 01:19:48.729
the entire serotonin system because when Albert Hoffman discovered it,
1498
01:19:49.489 --> 01:19:51.369
we didn't really have a good understanding of the serotonin
1499
01:19:51.409 --> 01:19:53.840
system at that time, but it's a potent activator of
1500
01:19:53.859 --> 01:19:57.000
the serotonin receptors. And when people take it, they experience
1501
01:19:57.020 --> 01:20:00.600
an almost immediate shift in meaning from the world. And
1502
01:20:00.720 --> 01:20:03.500
that's really interesting, which I also talk about in the book.
1503
01:20:03.989 --> 01:20:06.050
So there's a lot of studies now that have been
1504
01:20:06.090 --> 01:20:09.090
done that look at and explore how we make meaning
1505
01:20:09.109 --> 01:20:12.970
from the world through the serotonin receptor system. So I
1506
01:20:12.989 --> 01:20:15.689
don't want to digress too much, but yeah, you can,
1507
01:20:15.810 --> 01:20:18.220
I mean, different medicines have different ways of taking them
1508
01:20:18.229 --> 01:20:20.140
into your body, some of which are better than others.
1509
01:20:20.340 --> 01:20:24.699
Is the LSD safe to use if it's used properly? Yeah,
1510
01:20:24.720 --> 01:20:26.899
I mean, all psychedelic medicines are safe to be used
1511
01:20:27.079 --> 01:20:32.109
physically if used properly. I would say... The only one
1512
01:20:32.130 --> 01:20:35.210
that we know of... I mean, again, this depends on...
1513
01:20:36.029 --> 01:20:40.819
There are exceptions if you have bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, psychotic disorder,
1514
01:20:41.260 --> 01:20:44.779
personality disorder. If you're taking certain drugs, if you have
1515
01:20:44.800 --> 01:20:47.180
high blood pressure in certain cases, you're taking certain drugs
1516
01:20:47.239 --> 01:20:51.000
that are not compatible with psychedelics, like antidepressants are not
1517
01:20:51.039 --> 01:20:54.029
compatible with most psychedelics, then you're not a good candidate
1518
01:20:54.050 --> 01:20:55.829
for these kinds of things. But assuming that none of
1519
01:20:55.869 --> 01:20:59.920
that is in the picture, then... Psychedelic medicines like LSD
1520
01:20:59.939 --> 01:21:04.060
and others are extraordinarily physically safe for the body. And
1521
01:21:04.079 --> 01:21:07.850
the only psychedelic medicine that is now gaining popularity in
1522
01:21:07.869 --> 01:21:11.590
the news media because it helps treat opioid use disorder
1523
01:21:11.670 --> 01:21:16.569
is ibogaine. And ibogaine is a fascinating molecule that comes
1524
01:21:16.649 --> 01:21:20.159
from the boga plant that is traditionally used by the
1525
01:21:20.239 --> 01:21:26.800
Bwiti people in Gabon in Africa. This medicine is... is
1526
01:21:26.920 --> 01:21:31.890
one of the most intense, most powerful psychedelic experiences that
1527
01:21:31.930 --> 01:21:34.310
people have. It can last, I think it lasts 18
1528
01:21:34.310 --> 01:21:37.069
to 24 hours. That's too long. It's really long.
1529
01:21:37.090 --> 01:21:37.350
Yeah.
1530
01:21:37.689 --> 01:21:41.229
It is serious. It is no joke. If ayahuasca is
1531
01:21:41.250 --> 01:21:44.430
the compassionate grandmother spirit, as the tribes people call it,
1532
01:21:45.180 --> 01:21:48.500
iboga is like the grandfather spirit that's going to whip
1533
01:21:48.520 --> 01:21:52.960
you into shape. Like, it is intense. And... It is
1534
01:21:53.119 --> 01:21:56.739
one of the only, if not the only, major psychedelic
1535
01:21:56.920 --> 01:21:59.380
molecules that we know of that comes from plants that
1536
01:21:59.399 --> 01:22:01.779
can kill you. They can cause sudden cardiac death, and
1537
01:22:01.819 --> 01:22:04.079
we don't know how to predict it. Wow. It can
1538
01:22:04.140 --> 01:22:07.520
cause sudden cardiac death in healthy people. So it's very rare.
1539
01:22:07.539 --> 01:22:11.779
It's extremely rare. So as long as people are cardiovascularly
1540
01:22:11.939 --> 01:22:15.319
monitored during it, we can avoid that risk. But the
1541
01:22:15.359 --> 01:22:17.819
point is it requires some monitoring and some extra care.
1542
01:22:18.189 --> 01:22:22.970
All the other psychedelic medicines, if you don't have any contraindications...
1543
01:22:22.359 --> 01:22:25.979
You're not taking any medicines that can interfere. They're extremely safe.
1544
01:22:26.100 --> 01:22:27.840
Well, I'd never asked you this now that you brought
1545
01:22:27.880 --> 01:22:29.800
that up. So you said that could, that can last
1546
01:22:29.880 --> 01:22:31.859
way through, huh? That scares the shit out of me.
1547
01:22:31.899 --> 01:22:34.050
I'm thinking about what is a, what is a standard
1548
01:22:34.189 --> 01:22:37.670
kind of timeframe for just a general dose of something?
1549
01:22:37.710 --> 01:22:39.970
How long does it last? Yeah. How long does it last?
1550
01:22:40.029 --> 01:22:42.029
So ketamine lasts 60 minutes, which is why it's one
1551
01:22:42.050 --> 01:22:45.149
of the best, easiest first line psychedelic medicines we use.
1552
01:22:45.350 --> 01:22:50.659
It's also fully legal currently. And so when we administer
1553
01:22:50.699 --> 01:22:53.180
ketamine in the clinic, like in my clinic, We'll do,
1554
01:22:53.399 --> 01:22:56.960
it's a one-hour active time of the medicine, but we
1555
01:22:57.560 --> 01:22:59.369
work with people for three hours during that time. So
1556
01:22:59.390 --> 01:23:02.489
we do some talk therapy before, and then we do,
1557
01:23:02.569 --> 01:23:03.750
or two and a half hours. We do some talk
1558
01:23:03.770 --> 01:23:07.510
therapy before, get people prepared, feeling comfortable. We administer the medicine.
1559
01:23:07.529 --> 01:23:10.710
They're under the influence of the medicine for somewhere between
1560
01:23:10.710 --> 01:23:13.489
60 and 75 minutes. And then they have some fade-out
1561
01:23:13.550 --> 01:23:15.850
time where they come back into their bodies and feeling
1562
01:23:15.899 --> 01:23:18.920
safe again and back into the, you know, they get
1563
01:23:18.939 --> 01:23:21.630
to reintegrate a little bit with us there. Then they
1564
01:23:21.649 --> 01:23:23.189
go home, and then we meet again the next day
1565
01:23:23.210 --> 01:23:25.229
and do integration. So are they talking to you while
1566
01:23:25.270 --> 01:23:28.729
they're on it? Sometimes. With ketamine in particular, it's more
1567
01:23:28.750 --> 01:23:33.000
of one of the more introspective medicines. Most people are
1568
01:23:33.300 --> 01:23:36.500
guided by a music playlist, very highly curated to them
1569
01:23:37.000 --> 01:23:38.899
and to what they want to get out of the experience.
1570
01:23:38.920 --> 01:23:41.930
It helps them dive deeper in. It helps quiet their minds.
1571
01:23:42.090 --> 01:23:47.210
Music with psychedelic experiences is extremely important. Everybody has Apollo
1572
01:23:47.289 --> 01:23:50.600
on at the same time, helping calm and ease the body. And,
1573
01:23:50.810 --> 01:23:53.310
and then they have a blindfold on. Oh, okay. And
1574
01:23:53.340 --> 01:23:56.239
so they're going inward. And with ketamine, that's what I'm saying.
1575
01:23:56.279 --> 01:23:58.579
The way the medicine is used is different for each one.
1576
01:23:58.800 --> 01:24:00.720
Ketamine is not like a group experience where we go
1577
01:24:00.739 --> 01:24:01.739
talking and hanging out.
1578
01:24:01.840 --> 01:24:02.079
Yeah.
1579
01:24:02.119 --> 01:24:06.619
It's a deeply introspective, quiet mind, what we call observer mind,
1580
01:24:06.680 --> 01:24:12.359
meditative experience. MDMA has those internal components when we use
1581
01:24:12.380 --> 01:24:15.199
it in treatment, but it lasts about four hours on
1582
01:24:15.239 --> 01:24:18.460
a single dose. So it's less than psilocybin, which is
1583
01:24:18.479 --> 01:24:20.460
about six to eight hours, less than LSD, which is
1584
01:24:20.460 --> 01:24:23.840
10 to 12 hours. And MDMA has people go inside
1585
01:24:23.880 --> 01:24:26.380
and do the introspective work. But then a lot of
1586
01:24:26.399 --> 01:24:31.439
the experience is also eyes open, talking, communicating, empathy. So
1587
01:24:31.460 --> 01:24:34.399
I think it just depends on the medicine and a
1588
01:24:34.420 --> 01:24:37.140
lot of ways of how people interact when they're on it.
1589
01:24:37.520 --> 01:24:40.079
But ketamine is fascinating because, I mean, I think it's
1590
01:24:40.140 --> 01:24:42.680
so cool. You give somebody a medicine after doing a
1591
01:24:42.699 --> 01:24:45.680
whole bunch of trauma prep work and then they go inside.
1592
01:24:46.670 --> 01:24:50.180
They witness what they need to see themselves for themselves.
1593
01:24:50.399 --> 01:24:52.460
And then they are doing the work and you get
1594
01:24:52.500 --> 01:24:54.739
to watch them do the work. Wow.
1595
01:24:54.939 --> 01:24:55.279
Right?
1596
01:24:55.699 --> 01:25:00.340
So like, they're doing the work. It's clear evidence that
1597
01:25:00.359 --> 01:25:02.689
the source of healing is coming from within them. I'm
1598
01:25:02.699 --> 01:25:05.430
just holding a, I mean, just, it takes a lot
1599
01:25:05.449 --> 01:25:06.770
of work what I'm doing, but I'm holding a safe
1600
01:25:06.829 --> 01:25:09.569
space for them to allow the work to be done
1601
01:25:09.630 --> 01:25:12.050
on their vulnerable parts and the healing to be done
1602
01:25:12.090 --> 01:25:15.529
on their vulnerable parts. But they are fully doing the work.
1603
01:25:16.149 --> 01:25:19.579
They're fully doing the work. I am the supportive guide, right?
1604
01:25:20.000 --> 01:25:23.159
And so it's like just reaffirming these ancient principles of
1605
01:25:23.199 --> 01:25:27.159
healing that came from Hippocrates and Maimonides and the founders
1606
01:25:27.279 --> 01:25:30.500
and the ancient nameless now people of tribal and Eastern
1607
01:25:30.539 --> 01:25:34.510
medicine who all came to the same conclusion from completely
1608
01:25:34.569 --> 01:25:37.149
different parts of the world with no internet that they
1609
01:25:37.369 --> 01:25:39.250
all agreed that the source of healing comes from the
1610
01:25:39.289 --> 01:25:42.590
person who's seeking to be healed, right? Not from a pill,
1611
01:25:42.989 --> 01:25:45.270
not from a doctor or a therapist and not from
1612
01:25:45.310 --> 01:25:49.020
a system. It comes from the person seeking to be healed.
1613
01:25:49.300 --> 01:25:51.420
And when you do this work, it is so humbling
1614
01:25:52.239 --> 01:25:54.939
and such an honor and a privilege to witness because
1615
01:25:54.979 --> 01:25:58.460
you get to witness that healing actually happening where people
1616
01:25:58.500 --> 01:26:01.300
are healing themselves in real time. It is so cool.
1617
01:26:01.500 --> 01:26:04.039
So since I'm coming to California like once or twice
1618
01:26:04.079 --> 01:26:06.600
a month, I'm booking a session with you.
1619
01:26:06.979 --> 01:26:07.310
Okay.
1620
01:26:07.399 --> 01:26:11.109
Serious. Cause I'll just picture myself listening to Pink Floyd
1621
01:26:11.170 --> 01:26:13.350
time and going off into the yonder with you and
1622
01:26:13.369 --> 01:26:14.890
just getting myself right, man.
1623
01:26:14.970 --> 01:26:18.229
Like it sounds so amazing to say the least. It's
1624
01:26:18.270 --> 01:26:22.640
pretty incredible. I mean, especially from a spiritually connecting perspective.
1625
01:26:22.659 --> 01:26:24.659
Like I tell this story about one of my patients,
1626
01:26:25.180 --> 01:26:27.039
tell this story about one of my patients who was
1627
01:26:27.100 --> 01:26:29.760
one of my favorite patients over the years. So I
1628
01:26:29.800 --> 01:26:31.399
had this, I had this, one of my favorite patients
1629
01:26:31.430 --> 01:26:33.970
to talk, to tell a story about is this woman
1630
01:26:34.050 --> 01:26:36.850
who left a cult that she was raised in with
1631
01:26:36.890 --> 01:26:39.909
her husband through her 30s. And in her 30s, she
1632
01:26:39.949 --> 01:26:42.439
realized that they were lying to her about the outside
1633
01:26:42.500 --> 01:26:44.479
world and that they were trying to control her access
1634
01:26:44.520 --> 01:26:47.420
to God and spirituality. And they said, your access to
1635
01:26:48.079 --> 01:26:50.880
the world outside is cruel and dark. We are the light.
1636
01:26:50.979 --> 01:26:53.970
We are your only source of life. We are your
1637
01:26:54.029 --> 01:26:56.470
only connection to God. It's not through you that you
1638
01:26:56.510 --> 01:26:59.850
get to God. It's through us. And she eventually said.
1639
01:26:59.890 --> 01:27:00.310
You know what?
1640
01:27:00.890 --> 01:27:02.810
I don't think this is true or right. Doesn't feel
1641
01:27:02.869 --> 01:27:05.409
right to me. I'm trusted her intuition. She left and
1642
01:27:05.430 --> 01:27:09.329
her husband left. And about 20 years later, she was
1643
01:27:09.369 --> 01:27:14.149
struggling with severe depression and PTSD, feeling completely disconnected, lonely.
1644
01:27:15.029 --> 01:27:17.729
COVID hit, made it much worse. She reached out to
1645
01:27:17.810 --> 01:27:21.090
us for, for therapy. And we did one ketamine session
1646
01:27:21.109 --> 01:27:24.409
with her. And in one ketamine session, this wasn't even
1647
01:27:24.449 --> 01:27:25.869
in person. This is over zoom.
1648
01:27:26.670 --> 01:27:26.949
Wow.
1649
01:27:27.069 --> 01:27:30.300
So pharmacy delivers ketamine. Ketamine is this incredibly safe drug.
1650
01:27:30.770 --> 01:27:33.069
Pharmacy delivered the ketamine to her home. Her husband was
1651
01:27:33.109 --> 01:27:34.810
in the home in case we needed him to come in.
1652
01:27:35.399 --> 01:27:38.140
But we were on Zoom with her. She takes a
1653
01:27:38.500 --> 01:27:41.039
very low dose of ketamine, just enough to get her
1654
01:27:41.079 --> 01:27:46.720
to an altered state of consciousness. The first thing she
1655
01:27:46.779 --> 01:27:51.699
said was in the session that was so funny. She's like,
1656
01:27:52.359 --> 01:27:54.279
She just, like, has, like, a light bulb, right? And
1657
01:27:54.300 --> 01:27:56.899
she's like, this is how they did it. And we're like,
1658
01:27:56.920 --> 01:27:58.859
this is how who did it? She's like, this is
1659
01:27:58.899 --> 01:28:01.699
how the Beatles wrote all that music. My gosh. I
1660
01:28:01.720 --> 01:28:05.050
was like, you're a funny, like... Then in the integration
1661
01:28:05.090 --> 01:28:08.170
session afterwards, she just had that insight, right? In the
1662
01:28:08.189 --> 01:28:13.909
integration afterwards, we're chatting, and I think it was within
1663
01:28:13.909 --> 01:28:16.369
24 hours. It was, like, the next day. She said
1664
01:28:16.430 --> 01:28:23.260
to us, I... I didn't know that I could access
1665
01:28:23.880 --> 01:28:27.159
God on my own. I didn't know that I had
1666
01:28:27.199 --> 01:28:31.119
an independent relationship with God. I thought my whole life
1667
01:28:31.159 --> 01:28:34.029
that God came through this cult that I was raised
1668
01:28:34.149 --> 01:28:37.710
in and that they taught me that I was disconnected
1669
01:28:37.729 --> 01:28:40.939
from God and spirituality forever because of that. because of
1670
01:28:40.960 --> 01:28:43.939
what they told me. And I never reconciled that. All
1671
01:28:43.960 --> 01:28:46.939
of a sudden, I had this experience with ketamine where
1672
01:28:47.039 --> 01:28:51.390
I felt God. I felt God. I felt my connection
1673
01:28:51.430 --> 01:28:54.909
to divinity and spirituality for myself without anyone in between
1674
01:28:54.930 --> 01:28:58.529
and And I realized that this is inside me. Yes.
1675
01:28:58.649 --> 01:29:02.479
And now I can cultivate that for myself. I can
1676
01:29:02.529 --> 01:29:05.180
continue to have a relationship with God that I nourish
1677
01:29:05.199 --> 01:29:08.399
without going through anybody else. That was more healing than
1678
01:29:08.500 --> 01:29:11.180
anything else for her. That was more healing than anything
1679
01:29:11.220 --> 01:29:12.899
that we did. We just created the safe space for
1680
01:29:12.939 --> 01:29:16.510
that to happen. She allowed that experience to happen because
1681
01:29:16.529 --> 01:29:18.869
she trusted us to hold that safe space for her.
1682
01:29:19.470 --> 01:29:23.149
And then she repaired this injured part of herself. that
1683
01:29:23.159 --> 01:29:26.689
was preventing her from connecting to her own spirituality, her
1684
01:29:27.069 --> 01:29:30.609
own source of divinity. And then she didn't need us anymore.
1685
01:29:30.630 --> 01:29:34.689
I was like, best, best outcome ever, right? Like she's just, yeah,
1686
01:29:34.729 --> 01:29:36.630
we did a couple more therapy sessions, but she didn't
1687
01:29:36.670 --> 01:29:38.479
do any more medicine sessions after that. She was just
1688
01:29:38.920 --> 01:29:41.260
able to take the lead on her own. So beautiful.
1689
01:29:41.500 --> 01:29:43.560
That makes my day to hear. It gave me chills
1690
01:29:43.699 --> 01:29:44.460
that honestly.
1691
01:29:44.479 --> 01:29:47.979
That is the good way to end because it's such
1692
01:29:48.000 --> 01:29:51.159
a positive note. Man, I loved hearing that. Thank you
1693
01:29:51.180 --> 01:29:54.560
for sharing that. Thank you for sharing that story. Well,
1694
01:29:55.180 --> 01:29:57.539
we already got part three in my head lined up
1695
01:29:57.619 --> 01:30:00.319
for the next run. So, dude, I mean, I don't
1696
01:30:00.399 --> 01:30:03.340
even know what to say other than every single time
1697
01:30:03.359 --> 01:30:05.510
I do something like this with you or even talk
1698
01:30:05.560 --> 01:30:08.710
the 10-minute talks, I always tell you I'm always in
1699
01:30:08.729 --> 01:30:13.470
a good mood. Every time. So it's just... It's just
1700
01:30:13.590 --> 01:30:15.649
not a pleasure to do this. It's a pleasure to
1701
01:30:15.750 --> 01:30:17.409
know you. It's a pleasure to call you a friend,
1702
01:30:17.449 --> 01:30:21.569
a family member, a whole nine. But your work, aside
1703
01:30:21.600 --> 01:30:24.600
from ours, just your work and what you do and everything.
1704
01:30:24.619 --> 01:30:27.140
And I've told you this before in conversation. And I
1705
01:30:27.199 --> 01:30:29.960
sat and got to talk to you one-on-one and really feel.
1706
01:30:29.979 --> 01:30:33.350
I remember asking you in the car, why do you
1707
01:30:33.359 --> 01:30:36.369
do this? Just Fill me in. And he told me,
1708
01:30:36.399 --> 01:30:38.979
and it's just like, man, I remember calling Queenie that
1709
01:30:39.050 --> 01:30:41.010
night and saying, this is just one of the best
1710
01:30:41.149 --> 01:30:42.810
fucking guys I've ever met in my life.
1711
01:30:43.189 --> 01:30:44.890
Oh, thank you. Yeah, it's true.
1712
01:30:44.930 --> 01:30:46.630
And excuse me for saying that, but I'm saying it
1713
01:30:46.649 --> 01:30:50.329
because that's how I feel. So thank you. I can't
1714
01:30:50.390 --> 01:30:51.949
wait for your book to come out. I can't wait
1715
01:30:51.979 --> 01:30:55.560
to show the world and tell everybody, can we pre-order yet?
1716
01:30:56.140 --> 01:30:57.819
What's the deal? How do we get it? When can
1717
01:30:57.840 --> 01:31:00.310
we expect it? So the book's coming in June. Thank
1718
01:31:00.329 --> 01:31:01.989
you again for having me, by the way. Always a
1719
01:31:02.010 --> 01:31:06.350
pleasure to be with you. I love our conversations. You
1720
01:31:06.430 --> 01:31:08.409
always take us in a direction that is different than
1721
01:31:08.489 --> 01:31:12.960
everyone else. So I really appreciate that. So yeah, please
1722
01:31:13.159 --> 01:31:15.039
come find me on socials, of course. I love to
1723
01:31:15.079 --> 01:31:19.380
hear from everyone. I love answering questions and teaching in
1724
01:31:19.439 --> 01:31:22.520
case you can't tell. So please ask me your questions.
1725
01:31:24.119 --> 01:31:27.510
And so yeah, just go to asimpleguidetobeingalive.com. And you can
1726
01:31:27.529 --> 01:31:29.609
learn about the book. You can get first access to
1727
01:31:29.649 --> 01:31:33.569
the super discounted pre-order. And we'll also have the opportunity
1728
01:31:33.590 --> 01:31:36.069
to get live Q & A webinars with me where
1729
01:31:36.090 --> 01:31:38.609
you can actually talk to me because I love to teach.
1730
01:31:38.689 --> 01:31:41.189
So we're going to create opportunities even though I'm really
1731
01:31:41.220 --> 01:31:43.800
busy and I have a 16-month-old. I'm going to make
1732
01:31:43.819 --> 01:31:47.319
time to connect with everyone and to share this knowledge
1733
01:31:47.359 --> 01:31:51.000
firsthand because I had great teachers and mentors in my training.
1734
01:31:51.539 --> 01:31:53.539
I have a chapter about this in the book too
1735
01:31:53.619 --> 01:31:56.500
that I really believe that mentorship is something that we've
1736
01:31:56.539 --> 01:31:59.460
lost in our society and that a lot of people
1737
01:31:59.699 --> 01:32:02.800
who achieve a certain status forget that our responsibility is
1738
01:32:02.840 --> 01:32:06.000
to teach and pass down knowledge. And I wouldn't be
1739
01:32:06.039 --> 01:32:08.479
here without my mentors, you know, without the people who
1740
01:32:08.539 --> 01:32:10.479
took the patience and the time to teach me when
1741
01:32:10.520 --> 01:32:14.180
I was stupid and young. I'm curious. I wouldn't be here.
1742
01:32:14.560 --> 01:32:16.779
And so I'm so grateful to those people. And so
1743
01:32:17.319 --> 01:32:19.800
in the same vein, I really want to make sure
1744
01:32:19.819 --> 01:32:22.680
to give back to everyone and actually be accessible. And
1745
01:32:22.720 --> 01:32:26.079
so if you go to asimpleguidetobeingalive.com, you put your email
1746
01:32:26.100 --> 01:32:27.579
address in there, we'll make sure to let you know
1747
01:32:27.960 --> 01:32:31.600
when the super discounted pre-order comes online, which will be
1748
01:32:31.619 --> 01:32:33.819
in the next few weeks. And then we'll also make
1749
01:32:33.840 --> 01:32:35.939
sure to let you know when the webinar with me,
1750
01:32:36.050 --> 01:32:38.609
Q & A webinar comes online so you can join
1751
01:32:38.670 --> 01:32:41.729
and get access to some of the fun teachings and
1752
01:32:42.010 --> 01:32:42.750
get any.
1753
01:32:42.609 --> 01:32:45.449
Of your questions answered. Check the link or the description
1754
01:32:45.510 --> 01:32:47.989
for the links. I got a nice coupon as I
1755
01:32:48.010 --> 01:32:50.880
do in all my My posts here, when I post
1756
01:32:51.000 --> 01:32:53.840
the podcast, you get $ 99 off the Apollo, the link
1757
01:32:53.859 --> 01:32:56.579
for the book, the link to follow Dave. And we'll
1758
01:32:56.600 --> 01:33:00.500
have video content out to watch. And he's always not
1759
01:33:00.560 --> 01:33:03.819
only answering questions, but he gives live speeches at some
1760
01:33:03.840 --> 01:33:07.039
of the biggest and best conventions. I would definitely encourage
1761
01:33:07.079 --> 01:33:08.840
you to go see them. We'll put lists out for
1762
01:33:08.899 --> 01:33:11.140
all of that. You check my socials, everything else. So
1763
01:33:11.340 --> 01:33:14.050
that being said, my man, thank you so much for
1764
01:33:14.090 --> 01:33:17.130
the time, the conversation, the education, and the care.
1765
01:33:17.670 --> 01:33:18.369
Dylan Dinelli.
1766
01:33:18.840 --> 01:33:19.159
Dr.
1767
01:33:19.199 --> 01:33:21.020
Dave Rabin, signing off.