[0:01] If you're applying for disability benefits or help people that are, the path to success
[0:05] has never been more complicated.
[0:07] Welcome to the Disability Expert Podcast, where we tackle the difficult issues and interview
[0:12] the country's top experts to help you better navigate the disability process.
[0:16] Winning a disability case is hard, and keeps getting tougher every day.
[0:19] We can't promise you'll win your case by listening, but we sure think it's going to help.
[0:24] This really isn't that complicated.
[0:26] I mean, you want to win your case, don't you?
[0:29] Well, then listen to what I say.
[0:31] Hey, it's Chad Brown, we're looking to the episode of the Disability Expert Podcast,
[0:35] where we talk about all things, such as your disability, back with Aaron Dalton here.
[0:40] Good to be back.
[0:41] Yeah, we got a good topic today.
[0:42] We're going to dive into the world of confusion that vets have.
[0:51] A lot of misinformation out there on this topic.
[0:54] Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, it's interesting.
[0:57] I was that, I was actually a funeral yesterday.
[1:02] And my wife's great uncle died, and he was a Vietnam War vet.
[1:06] They had a full military funeral.
[1:08] It was just so, it was so impressive.
[1:10] And so the, you know, they come in, and they, you know, they, they fire the guns,
[1:15] and they play taps, and just really, really, really beautiful.
[1:20] And there was a ton of vets there, and I knew we were shooting this episode today.
[1:23] And I was just thinking to myself, you know, these, these guys, I mean,
[1:27] it's men and women just happen to be, just happen to be men there,
[1:29] because they were all like his friends that were in their 80s.
[1:32] So, you know, all these men in there who served, many of them served in combat,
[1:39] I mean, just make tremendous sacrifice for us to have our freedoms.
[1:43] Veterans administration, to say they've treated vets well historically
[1:49] would just like, you would have to be a VA yes man to believe that's true.
[1:54] I mean, it's just not true, right?
[1:56] And, and this is an area where they get confused.
[2:01] And so the reason I want to do this episode is I want to be able to go in and say,
[2:05] hey, if you're a veteran, and you're suffering with disabilities, don't be confused,
[2:12] get some help, you know, it's, it's the least, the least we can do is to be able
[2:17] to give them good information, because a lot of times the information they get is just bad.
[2:23] You know, whether it's bad from the veteran service organizations,
[2:26] or it's bad from the VA itself, or it's bad from their doctor,
[2:30] or they go on the internet of all places, where we participate,
[2:35] we participate in the internet economy, right?
[2:38] But I like to think we provide good, you know, valuable, accurate, accurate information.
[2:44] So, let me just sort of set the stage, and then make sure, clear about what we're going to talk about.
[2:51] What we're going to talk about today is not VA disability.
[2:54] This is not disability benefits that vets are eligible for through the veterans administration,
[3:00] but the issues that the veterans face when they try to come into the social security disability process
[3:08] and therein lies lots of the confusion.
[3:10] So, part of the confusion is they're different disability programs.
[3:16] The VA disability program is different regulations, has different standards.
[3:22] We're going to dive in those just a little bit.
[3:24] So, security disability program is completely separate.
[3:29] They're different parts of the government.
[3:31] They're handled by different judges.
[3:33] They're handled by different administrations.
[3:34] They use different rules, and there's just a lot of confusion, because a lot of times there's confused
[3:42] about how they work together.
[3:44] And so, if we do anything at all today, maybe, well, if you're a vet, and you can listen to this,
[3:48] you'll understand, hey, this is what I can do.
[3:51] This is maybe what I can't do.
[3:54] These are how the programs work together.
[3:55] This is how my VA disability rating that I have is going to impact my social security case, if at all.
[4:02] And it sort of helped work them through that.
[4:04] So, let's just talk a little bit about some of the key differences, okay.
[4:11] So, what are some of the key differences between the VA disability program and the social security disability program?
[4:18] I think one of the first big differences is that social security is not tied to military service,
[4:24] or impairments are rising from military service.
[4:28] So, social security will look at all of the impairments, regardless of how they arose.
[4:36] Social security is based on your work history.
[4:40] And so, you know, work after military service can contribute to that social security date last and short that we're always talking about.
[4:52] I think the other thing that's important for them to understand is the VA uses a graduated rating service.
[4:59] So, you know, you could have, you know, 10% disability rating for hearing walls,
[5:05] and you could have a 30% disability rating for back issue.
[5:08] And then they look at how do those combined, and they can combine to give you a total disability rating.
[5:15] And if you reach a certain disability rating, sort of percentage disability rating,
[5:20] then they determine you're totally permanently disabled.
[5:23] So, it's a graduated rating system where they sort of look at your impairments individually,
[5:29] and then look at the combination of those to come up with a cumulative score.
[5:35] And if you reach a certain cumulative score, they give you a different score.
[5:37] Right. That's not all that Social Security is.
[5:40] You know, Social Security is a, it's really, it's all or nothing.
[5:44] You know, there's no partial disability, there's no partial disability.
[5:50] You're, you're, they don't give you ratings based on whether you have a back issue,
[5:56] or you have the knee issue, or you have a mental health issue.
[5:59] They're looking at, you know, are you able to return to substantial gainful activity
[6:03] on a full-time, sustained basis, about accommodation or assistance.
[6:08] They're going through a five-step sequential evaluation process looking at you as a whole.
[6:12] So, at one level, the Social Security Administration sort of looks at the whole person,
[6:19] and the VA sort of looks at you from like a system standpoint.
[6:26] Also confusing because in the disability, sequential evaluation process is step three,
[6:32] they, they do break down and look at impairments individually,
[6:35] so that one impairment in and of itself, if severe enough, could be a basis for total disability,
[6:41] but it's still not the same as what they're doing in the VA system.
[6:45] So, there's different appeals, there's different processes, this initial reconsideration,
[6:51] hearing, appeals counsel, federal court process.
[6:55] They're comparable processes in the VA disability system, but they're not the same.
[7:01] The decision-makers are not the same, they don't have a common set of evidence
[7:08] that they're using, so it's like, you know, sometimes a lot of people say,
[7:11] well, I submitted that to the VA, and it's like, yes, I understand that,
[7:16] but the Social Security doesn't have like magical access to what's going on over there.
[7:22] And so, I think those are some of the key differences.
[7:27] Let's talk about how they interact a little bit,
[7:29] because there's a lot of confusion about that.
[7:31] So, let me just sort of give you some basic questions.
[7:32] So, can you receive VA disability benefits and Social Security disability benefits at the same time?
[7:39] Yes.
[7:39] Okay.
[7:40] And if you receive VA disability benefits and you receive Social Security disability benefits,
[7:47] is there an offset of those benefits?
[7:49] There's not an offset as long as you're receiving title two, Social Security disability
[7:54] that's based on your work record.
[7:56] We don't see this very often, but theoretically, a veteran who is receiving SSI,
[8:01] those SSI need-based benefits would be reduced or eliminated from anything received by the VA.
[8:08] And that's because in the Social Security system, SSI is an entitlement program
[8:11] which looks at assets and it's looks at income and resources and those any income
[8:18] that you're receiving from the VA disability is going to count in that capacity.
[8:23] But there's not an offset per se.
[8:25] It's not like, it's not like, say, in private long-term disability,
[8:29] where you receive a private long-term disability payout
[8:32] and then you get Social Security disability benefits.
[8:34] And most of those policies will reduce your LTD benefit by the amount of Social Security.
[8:39] That's not happening with a VA case.
[8:43] I think there's a lot of confusion.
[8:46] I know a lot of times over the years we have people who,
[8:50] vets who come to us and they say, either I didn't know I could get both
[8:55] or I didn't think there was any point in getting both
[8:58] because I know my VA was going to be higher than my Social Security.
[9:02] Yeah.
[9:03] Yeah, so clear that up.
[9:06] The systems and processes are differently.
[9:10] What are some of the arguments that someone who has own VA disability benefits
[9:16] should apply for Social Security disability?
[9:18] What, there's some advantages for people for vets inside the Social Security disability process
[9:23] and so just talk a little about that.
[9:25] So one of the big advantages with Social Security is they do fast track,
[9:32] essentially, disabled veterans claims.
[9:35] So veteran who's 100% disabled or permanent in total,
[9:41] some combat disability ratings will receive expedited consideration with SSA
[9:47] so rather than the two to three years that we talk about for most other cases,
[9:51] a lot of veterans can be in front of an administrative law judge within 12 months
[9:56] or so give or take.
[9:58] Obviously, there's additional income.
[9:59] There's additional income.
[10:00] There's Medicare which really helps if you want to see non VA providers.
[10:05] Right. And then even though there's been some expansion in the VA system
[10:09] to allow you to see non VA providers, it's not everywhere.
[10:15] Sometimes the options aren't that great.
[10:19] And there's also, you know, getting super niche in the Medicare world.
[10:25] There are special programs.
[10:28] Most of your major health insurance carriers have special programs for vets
[10:32] where actually they can get Medicare Advantage plans that actually reduce their
[10:37] part B premium that they have to pay for Medicare.
[10:39] So not only can you get Medicare,
[10:41] often you can get it for cheaper than the average person can get Medicare
[10:45] because they're sort of an underlying assumption that you're going to use the VA
[10:49] for some of your coverage and you also, you can get your drugs from the,
[10:52] if you have VA disability, you can get, and you have VA coverage.
[10:56] You can get your drugs from the, from the VA.
[10:59] So the point is is that there are significant advantages for vets coming
[11:04] into the social security disability process insurance, additional income.
[11:08] And the process has been streamlined for certain vets so that it's not near as
[11:13] onerous, for lack of a better phrase for them to go through it.
[11:17] So let's talk about vets who are trying to get on social security disability.
[11:22] Generally, there's more confusion there.
[11:26] How does the VA disability rating or decision impact social security
[11:33] decision makers?
[11:34] And I'll say that by quoting the question or statement.
[11:39] I've been told by so many vets over the years, which is, well,
[11:42] the VA said I'm disabled.
[11:44] Why doesn't the judge just follow that?
[11:46] They used to follow it a little more closely.
[11:48] And social security did not, like that per se, social security in 2017 said,
[11:54] whoa, whoa, whoa, our rules are very different than the VA's rules.
[11:58] We're going to pull back on that now.
[12:01] And so after 2017, now social security does not really pay very much attention
[12:05] at all to the actual disability rating.
[12:08] But what they're supposed to do is consider the underlying evidence from that
[12:13] VA disability rating.
[12:15] So compensation and pension exams, day-to-day treatment with the VA,
[12:21] other evidence in the VA file that they may have considered.
[12:24] And getting to that 100% disability rating, but the 100% rating itself receives very little
[12:29] consideration now from SSA.
[12:31] I think there's also a misunderstanding of that by judges as well, because I think sometimes
[12:37] judges take the position, well, I don't have to consider that at all.
[12:41] And I would sort of push back on that a little bit and say, well, no, you don't have to consider
[12:45] that the rating itself, you don't have, you're not bound by that decision, but the decision
[12:52] itself often contains, in my opinion, support developments that are, for example, functional
[12:59] limitations.
[13:00] So we have a VA decision that talks about functional limitations, secondary to, let's
[13:07] just say, a knee replacement.
[13:09] Well, I mean, we're going to have the orthopedic doctor.
[13:12] We're going to have testimony.
[13:14] But there is additional evidence that someone else looked at this and they reached the decision
[13:19] that there were functional limitations is the judge bound by that, no, but it is someone
[13:23] else looking at the evidence saying, hey, I think there's merit to this.
[13:28] Certainly, as you mentioned, the examinations that are done by the VA into preparing the
[13:35] VA disability decisions, there's, there's lots of good information in there.
[13:40] I think it's important that you get the full C file.
[13:44] And one of the things too that happens, and I think there's additional evidence there is
[13:51] sometimes in the VA disability rating decision or in the C file, you start to get context
[13:58] for what the vet went through.
[14:01] And so it's one thing to say, I have PTSD.
[14:04] It's another thing to say I have PTSD, and I was six months, boots on the ground, in combat
[14:11] in Afghanistan, and this is what I experienced.
[14:15] And so that in and of itself doesn't mean that you have the symptoms and the functional limitations
[14:21] that come from it, but much like people who have a history of sexual abuse or physical abuse
[14:28] or whatever it is in childhood or young adulthood, it gives context to what's happening.
[14:33] And I think context helps support credibility.
[14:37] And so with vets a lot of times when you're dealing with mental health impairments, they
[14:42] didn't have them before they went in the military.
[14:46] And coming out of the military, they have significant ones.
[14:51] And so I think there's just a lot of value there at understanding how do you use the VA records?
[14:55] How do you use the C file?
[14:57] How do you use the prior service?
[14:59] How do you use the ratings decisions that are there?
[15:03] No, the rating decision doesn't control.
[15:06] But that doesn't mean that the process that they went through, the evidence that was used
[15:11] there, their military service is somehow irrelevant, even though I've had judges sort of act like
[15:16] it was.
[15:17] And I'm like, well, okay, well, I think you're wrong.
[15:19] It's not irrelevant.
[15:20] We're going to go through and talk about it.
[15:23] So generally in building a case, though, it's similar to any other disability case.
[15:30] We need to prove you've got to go through the five-step sequential evaluation process.
[15:34] Should we still have an episode on?
[15:37] We still got to do that.
[15:39] You can't be working, you can't work, you have to work under certain SGA, we don't like
[15:44] you working.
[15:45] A good thing about that, so a lot of times they don't need to work because they have VA disability
[15:50] income.
[15:51] Right.
[15:52] So even though that may not be enough, it's better than nothing.
[15:57] And so I know when we screen leads every week and we go through them, one of the things we
[16:05] look at is this disability because we know, hey, well, he has some income and he has insurance.
[16:11] So it really makes surviving the weight better.
[16:15] You're going to get your medical evidence, you're going to get your letters of support,
[16:19] you're going to look at your consistency and supportability and work through a case
[16:25] just like any other case.
[16:29] It's relevant because a lot of times the military work history isn't relevant in the Social Security
[16:33] case.
[16:34] I mean, sometimes it is, but usually it's not.
[16:39] I think one of the big takeaways that Vets need to consider, though, is this because of
[16:48] date DLI issues, Vets sometimes find themselves with remote alleged onset dates.
[16:55] So can you talk a little bit about, without getting into the weeds about what DLI is, can you
[16:59] talk a little bit about DLI, a little bit about alleged onset dates and how Vets can fall
[17:03] into sort of this trap and end up with their case being a lot more difficult to prove than
[17:08] maybe it should be?
[17:09] Yes.
[17:10] Just briefly, DLI very simply is tied to employment taxes paid in to the Social Security
[17:20] system, extends the DLI, once you're no longer paying into that system, eventually the DLI
[17:26] will expire.
[17:27] So what we see practically with a lot of veterans is they tried to work after the military service
[17:32] for a while, something happened, they started receiving VA disability and didn't realize
[17:39] until years after they'd left work that they actually were eligible to file for Social Security
[17:44] disability.
[17:45] And so we might have a filing date that's three or four years later than the date that the
[17:51] Social Security Administration has to find them disabled in order to get those Social Security
[17:56] benefits started.
[17:57] So can make a case more difficult, but certainly not impossible, especially because the VA keeps
[18:02] good records and you can go back and get those in.
[18:05] Yeah, I mean, I think just sort of just like practically your DLI stance for date last
[18:09] insured is the last date that you're eligible for Social Security disability benefits, typically
[18:15] if you've worked consistently for the five years before you go out of work, it's going
[18:21] to extend for five more years, there's a five of 10 rule generally, but be sure absolutely
[18:26] right.
[18:27] What happens is veterans go out of work, they receive their VA disability, they wait
[18:31] five or six years and then realize, hey, I'm actually eligible for Social Security and they
[18:36] go apply, but now it's, you know, now it's 2026, we've got a 2020 DLI six years ago, which
[18:45] means we have to prove they were disabled prior to 2020 for them to be able to get Social
[18:50] Security disability benefits.
[18:52] And so the vet's coming to us going, we'll kind of say gracious, I've been disabled since
[18:56] 2012.
[18:57] I know, but it's harder to prove things that are sort of remote in history than maybe
[19:04] more recently.
[19:06] More importantly, I think one of the things that that does is it because you can only draw
[19:11] Social Security disability benefits for one year prior to your application, sometimes like
[19:16] say this person was disabled in 2018, their date last insured was 2020, they come to us
[19:23] in 2026, we can only get them paid back to 2025 in retroactive benefits.
[19:28] Huge amount of back pay that might be lost.
[19:30] So they lost, they amount of all six or seven years of back pay, you know, and a lot of
[19:37] times vets have high PAs because they have military service, they had good earnings and they
[19:40] had good jobs after.
[19:42] So if that person's got a, you know, a $2,500 a month Social Security disability PAA, then now
[19:50] we're at, I'm not great, 30,000 a year, five, six years, you know, now we've lost, you
[19:56] know, $150, $180,000 in back pay, it's real, it's a lot of money.
[20:02] And there's nothing we do about it because you can only get paid a year prior to the application.
[20:06] So if we don't, if we don't get vets to understand anything at all, don't wait to come into the
[20:13] Social Security disability system just because you have VA disability benefits.
[20:18] There's benefits that are available for you and waiting jeopardizes you being able to
[20:25] get sometimes pretty large amount of money that you could get an addition to your, to your
[20:29] mouth.
[20:31] All right.
[20:32] We're out of time.
[20:33] Already.
[20:34] Yeah.
[20:35] Take away as this.
[20:36] If you're a veteran, one, thank you for your service.
[20:40] There's benefits out there available for you in the, in the VA disability system frequently
[20:45] but also in the Social Security disability system.
[20:47] Understand, these are two different routes that you can take that both provide not only
[20:53] medical benefits, I'm sorry, sorry, financial benefit in terms of monthly, monthly income.
[21:00] But there's medical benefits that come as well.
[21:03] And you want to be maximizing not only your income, but also your ability to get as much
[21:09] medical treatment as you can and for as cheaply as possible and have the flexibility that you
[21:13] want.
[21:14] And one of the great things about Social Security is it places your Medicare, which all of
[21:17] a sudden opens up a much broader range of doctors that you can see and use to treat, to treat
[21:23] your serious condition.
[21:24] So that's it.
[21:27] Another episode, Disability Expert podcast.
[21:29] Thanks for watching.
[21:30] Subscribe.
[21:31] Until next time, take care.
[0:05] has never been more complicated.
[0:07] Welcome to the Disability Expert Podcast, where we tackle the difficult issues and interview
[0:12] the country's top experts to help you better navigate the disability process.
[0:16] Winning a disability case is hard, and keeps getting tougher every day.
[0:19] We can't promise you'll win your case by listening, but we sure think it's going to help.
[0:24] This really isn't that complicated.
[0:26] I mean, you want to win your case, don't you?
[0:29] Well, then listen to what I say.
[0:31] Hey, it's Chad Brown, we're looking to the episode of the Disability Expert Podcast,
[0:35] where we talk about all things, such as your disability, back with Aaron Dalton here.
[0:40] Good to be back.
[0:41] Yeah, we got a good topic today.
[0:42] We're going to dive into the world of confusion that vets have.
[0:51] A lot of misinformation out there on this topic.
[0:54] Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, it's interesting.
[0:57] I was that, I was actually a funeral yesterday.
[1:02] And my wife's great uncle died, and he was a Vietnam War vet.
[1:06] They had a full military funeral.
[1:08] It was just so, it was so impressive.
[1:10] And so the, you know, they come in, and they, you know, they, they fire the guns,
[1:15] and they play taps, and just really, really, really beautiful.
[1:20] And there was a ton of vets there, and I knew we were shooting this episode today.
[1:23] And I was just thinking to myself, you know, these, these guys, I mean,
[1:27] it's men and women just happen to be, just happen to be men there,
[1:29] because they were all like his friends that were in their 80s.
[1:32] So, you know, all these men in there who served, many of them served in combat,
[1:39] I mean, just make tremendous sacrifice for us to have our freedoms.
[1:43] Veterans administration, to say they've treated vets well historically
[1:49] would just like, you would have to be a VA yes man to believe that's true.
[1:54] I mean, it's just not true, right?
[1:56] And, and this is an area where they get confused.
[2:01] And so the reason I want to do this episode is I want to be able to go in and say,
[2:05] hey, if you're a veteran, and you're suffering with disabilities, don't be confused,
[2:12] get some help, you know, it's, it's the least, the least we can do is to be able
[2:17] to give them good information, because a lot of times the information they get is just bad.
[2:23] You know, whether it's bad from the veteran service organizations,
[2:26] or it's bad from the VA itself, or it's bad from their doctor,
[2:30] or they go on the internet of all places, where we participate,
[2:35] we participate in the internet economy, right?
[2:38] But I like to think we provide good, you know, valuable, accurate, accurate information.
[2:44] So, let me just sort of set the stage, and then make sure, clear about what we're going to talk about.
[2:51] What we're going to talk about today is not VA disability.
[2:54] This is not disability benefits that vets are eligible for through the veterans administration,
[3:00] but the issues that the veterans face when they try to come into the social security disability process
[3:08] and therein lies lots of the confusion.
[3:10] So, part of the confusion is they're different disability programs.
[3:16] The VA disability program is different regulations, has different standards.
[3:22] We're going to dive in those just a little bit.
[3:24] So, security disability program is completely separate.
[3:29] They're different parts of the government.
[3:31] They're handled by different judges.
[3:33] They're handled by different administrations.
[3:34] They use different rules, and there's just a lot of confusion, because a lot of times there's confused
[3:42] about how they work together.
[3:44] And so, if we do anything at all today, maybe, well, if you're a vet, and you can listen to this,
[3:48] you'll understand, hey, this is what I can do.
[3:51] This is maybe what I can't do.
[3:54] These are how the programs work together.
[3:55] This is how my VA disability rating that I have is going to impact my social security case, if at all.
[4:02] And it sort of helped work them through that.
[4:04] So, let's just talk a little bit about some of the key differences, okay.
[4:11] So, what are some of the key differences between the VA disability program and the social security disability program?
[4:18] I think one of the first big differences is that social security is not tied to military service,
[4:24] or impairments are rising from military service.
[4:28] So, social security will look at all of the impairments, regardless of how they arose.
[4:36] Social security is based on your work history.
[4:40] And so, you know, work after military service can contribute to that social security date last and short that we're always talking about.
[4:52] I think the other thing that's important for them to understand is the VA uses a graduated rating service.
[4:59] So, you know, you could have, you know, 10% disability rating for hearing walls,
[5:05] and you could have a 30% disability rating for back issue.
[5:08] And then they look at how do those combined, and they can combine to give you a total disability rating.
[5:15] And if you reach a certain disability rating, sort of percentage disability rating,
[5:20] then they determine you're totally permanently disabled.
[5:23] So, it's a graduated rating system where they sort of look at your impairments individually,
[5:29] and then look at the combination of those to come up with a cumulative score.
[5:35] And if you reach a certain cumulative score, they give you a different score.
[5:37] Right. That's not all that Social Security is.
[5:40] You know, Social Security is a, it's really, it's all or nothing.
[5:44] You know, there's no partial disability, there's no partial disability.
[5:50] You're, you're, they don't give you ratings based on whether you have a back issue,
[5:56] or you have the knee issue, or you have a mental health issue.
[5:59] They're looking at, you know, are you able to return to substantial gainful activity
[6:03] on a full-time, sustained basis, about accommodation or assistance.
[6:08] They're going through a five-step sequential evaluation process looking at you as a whole.
[6:12] So, at one level, the Social Security Administration sort of looks at the whole person,
[6:19] and the VA sort of looks at you from like a system standpoint.
[6:26] Also confusing because in the disability, sequential evaluation process is step three,
[6:32] they, they do break down and look at impairments individually,
[6:35] so that one impairment in and of itself, if severe enough, could be a basis for total disability,
[6:41] but it's still not the same as what they're doing in the VA system.
[6:45] So, there's different appeals, there's different processes, this initial reconsideration,
[6:51] hearing, appeals counsel, federal court process.
[6:55] They're comparable processes in the VA disability system, but they're not the same.
[7:01] The decision-makers are not the same, they don't have a common set of evidence
[7:08] that they're using, so it's like, you know, sometimes a lot of people say,
[7:11] well, I submitted that to the VA, and it's like, yes, I understand that,
[7:16] but the Social Security doesn't have like magical access to what's going on over there.
[7:22] And so, I think those are some of the key differences.
[7:27] Let's talk about how they interact a little bit,
[7:29] because there's a lot of confusion about that.
[7:31] So, let me just sort of give you some basic questions.
[7:32] So, can you receive VA disability benefits and Social Security disability benefits at the same time?
[7:39] Yes.
[7:39] Okay.
[7:40] And if you receive VA disability benefits and you receive Social Security disability benefits,
[7:47] is there an offset of those benefits?
[7:49] There's not an offset as long as you're receiving title two, Social Security disability
[7:54] that's based on your work record.
[7:56] We don't see this very often, but theoretically, a veteran who is receiving SSI,
[8:01] those SSI need-based benefits would be reduced or eliminated from anything received by the VA.
[8:08] And that's because in the Social Security system, SSI is an entitlement program
[8:11] which looks at assets and it's looks at income and resources and those any income
[8:18] that you're receiving from the VA disability is going to count in that capacity.
[8:23] But there's not an offset per se.
[8:25] It's not like, it's not like, say, in private long-term disability,
[8:29] where you receive a private long-term disability payout
[8:32] and then you get Social Security disability benefits.
[8:34] And most of those policies will reduce your LTD benefit by the amount of Social Security.
[8:39] That's not happening with a VA case.
[8:43] I think there's a lot of confusion.
[8:46] I know a lot of times over the years we have people who,
[8:50] vets who come to us and they say, either I didn't know I could get both
[8:55] or I didn't think there was any point in getting both
[8:58] because I know my VA was going to be higher than my Social Security.
[9:02] Yeah.
[9:03] Yeah, so clear that up.
[9:06] The systems and processes are differently.
[9:10] What are some of the arguments that someone who has own VA disability benefits
[9:16] should apply for Social Security disability?
[9:18] What, there's some advantages for people for vets inside the Social Security disability process
[9:23] and so just talk a little about that.
[9:25] So one of the big advantages with Social Security is they do fast track,
[9:32] essentially, disabled veterans claims.
[9:35] So veteran who's 100% disabled or permanent in total,
[9:41] some combat disability ratings will receive expedited consideration with SSA
[9:47] so rather than the two to three years that we talk about for most other cases,
[9:51] a lot of veterans can be in front of an administrative law judge within 12 months
[9:56] or so give or take.
[9:58] Obviously, there's additional income.
[9:59] There's additional income.
[10:00] There's Medicare which really helps if you want to see non VA providers.
[10:05] Right. And then even though there's been some expansion in the VA system
[10:09] to allow you to see non VA providers, it's not everywhere.
[10:15] Sometimes the options aren't that great.
[10:19] And there's also, you know, getting super niche in the Medicare world.
[10:25] There are special programs.
[10:28] Most of your major health insurance carriers have special programs for vets
[10:32] where actually they can get Medicare Advantage plans that actually reduce their
[10:37] part B premium that they have to pay for Medicare.
[10:39] So not only can you get Medicare,
[10:41] often you can get it for cheaper than the average person can get Medicare
[10:45] because they're sort of an underlying assumption that you're going to use the VA
[10:49] for some of your coverage and you also, you can get your drugs from the,
[10:52] if you have VA disability, you can get, and you have VA coverage.
[10:56] You can get your drugs from the, from the VA.
[10:59] So the point is is that there are significant advantages for vets coming
[11:04] into the social security disability process insurance, additional income.
[11:08] And the process has been streamlined for certain vets so that it's not near as
[11:13] onerous, for lack of a better phrase for them to go through it.
[11:17] So let's talk about vets who are trying to get on social security disability.
[11:22] Generally, there's more confusion there.
[11:26] How does the VA disability rating or decision impact social security
[11:33] decision makers?
[11:34] And I'll say that by quoting the question or statement.
[11:39] I've been told by so many vets over the years, which is, well,
[11:42] the VA said I'm disabled.
[11:44] Why doesn't the judge just follow that?
[11:46] They used to follow it a little more closely.
[11:48] And social security did not, like that per se, social security in 2017 said,
[11:54] whoa, whoa, whoa, our rules are very different than the VA's rules.
[11:58] We're going to pull back on that now.
[12:01] And so after 2017, now social security does not really pay very much attention
[12:05] at all to the actual disability rating.
[12:08] But what they're supposed to do is consider the underlying evidence from that
[12:13] VA disability rating.
[12:15] So compensation and pension exams, day-to-day treatment with the VA,
[12:21] other evidence in the VA file that they may have considered.
[12:24] And getting to that 100% disability rating, but the 100% rating itself receives very little
[12:29] consideration now from SSA.
[12:31] I think there's also a misunderstanding of that by judges as well, because I think sometimes
[12:37] judges take the position, well, I don't have to consider that at all.
[12:41] And I would sort of push back on that a little bit and say, well, no, you don't have to consider
[12:45] that the rating itself, you don't have, you're not bound by that decision, but the decision
[12:52] itself often contains, in my opinion, support developments that are, for example, functional
[12:59] limitations.
[13:00] So we have a VA decision that talks about functional limitations, secondary to, let's
[13:07] just say, a knee replacement.
[13:09] Well, I mean, we're going to have the orthopedic doctor.
[13:12] We're going to have testimony.
[13:14] But there is additional evidence that someone else looked at this and they reached the decision
[13:19] that there were functional limitations is the judge bound by that, no, but it is someone
[13:23] else looking at the evidence saying, hey, I think there's merit to this.
[13:28] Certainly, as you mentioned, the examinations that are done by the VA into preparing the
[13:35] VA disability decisions, there's, there's lots of good information in there.
[13:40] I think it's important that you get the full C file.
[13:44] And one of the things too that happens, and I think there's additional evidence there is
[13:51] sometimes in the VA disability rating decision or in the C file, you start to get context
[13:58] for what the vet went through.
[14:01] And so it's one thing to say, I have PTSD.
[14:04] It's another thing to say I have PTSD, and I was six months, boots on the ground, in combat
[14:11] in Afghanistan, and this is what I experienced.
[14:15] And so that in and of itself doesn't mean that you have the symptoms and the functional limitations
[14:21] that come from it, but much like people who have a history of sexual abuse or physical abuse
[14:28] or whatever it is in childhood or young adulthood, it gives context to what's happening.
[14:33] And I think context helps support credibility.
[14:37] And so with vets a lot of times when you're dealing with mental health impairments, they
[14:42] didn't have them before they went in the military.
[14:46] And coming out of the military, they have significant ones.
[14:51] And so I think there's just a lot of value there at understanding how do you use the VA records?
[14:55] How do you use the C file?
[14:57] How do you use the prior service?
[14:59] How do you use the ratings decisions that are there?
[15:03] No, the rating decision doesn't control.
[15:06] But that doesn't mean that the process that they went through, the evidence that was used
[15:11] there, their military service is somehow irrelevant, even though I've had judges sort of act like
[15:16] it was.
[15:17] And I'm like, well, okay, well, I think you're wrong.
[15:19] It's not irrelevant.
[15:20] We're going to go through and talk about it.
[15:23] So generally in building a case, though, it's similar to any other disability case.
[15:30] We need to prove you've got to go through the five-step sequential evaluation process.
[15:34] Should we still have an episode on?
[15:37] We still got to do that.
[15:39] You can't be working, you can't work, you have to work under certain SGA, we don't like
[15:44] you working.
[15:45] A good thing about that, so a lot of times they don't need to work because they have VA disability
[15:50] income.
[15:51] Right.
[15:52] So even though that may not be enough, it's better than nothing.
[15:57] And so I know when we screen leads every week and we go through them, one of the things we
[16:05] look at is this disability because we know, hey, well, he has some income and he has insurance.
[16:11] So it really makes surviving the weight better.
[16:15] You're going to get your medical evidence, you're going to get your letters of support,
[16:19] you're going to look at your consistency and supportability and work through a case
[16:25] just like any other case.
[16:29] It's relevant because a lot of times the military work history isn't relevant in the Social Security
[16:33] case.
[16:34] I mean, sometimes it is, but usually it's not.
[16:39] I think one of the big takeaways that Vets need to consider, though, is this because of
[16:48] date DLI issues, Vets sometimes find themselves with remote alleged onset dates.
[16:55] So can you talk a little bit about, without getting into the weeds about what DLI is, can you
[16:59] talk a little bit about DLI, a little bit about alleged onset dates and how Vets can fall
[17:03] into sort of this trap and end up with their case being a lot more difficult to prove than
[17:08] maybe it should be?
[17:09] Yes.
[17:10] Just briefly, DLI very simply is tied to employment taxes paid in to the Social Security
[17:20] system, extends the DLI, once you're no longer paying into that system, eventually the DLI
[17:26] will expire.
[17:27] So what we see practically with a lot of veterans is they tried to work after the military service
[17:32] for a while, something happened, they started receiving VA disability and didn't realize
[17:39] until years after they'd left work that they actually were eligible to file for Social Security
[17:44] disability.
[17:45] And so we might have a filing date that's three or four years later than the date that the
[17:51] Social Security Administration has to find them disabled in order to get those Social Security
[17:56] benefits started.
[17:57] So can make a case more difficult, but certainly not impossible, especially because the VA keeps
[18:02] good records and you can go back and get those in.
[18:05] Yeah, I mean, I think just sort of just like practically your DLI stance for date last
[18:09] insured is the last date that you're eligible for Social Security disability benefits, typically
[18:15] if you've worked consistently for the five years before you go out of work, it's going
[18:21] to extend for five more years, there's a five of 10 rule generally, but be sure absolutely
[18:26] right.
[18:27] What happens is veterans go out of work, they receive their VA disability, they wait
[18:31] five or six years and then realize, hey, I'm actually eligible for Social Security and they
[18:36] go apply, but now it's, you know, now it's 2026, we've got a 2020 DLI six years ago, which
[18:45] means we have to prove they were disabled prior to 2020 for them to be able to get Social
[18:50] Security disability benefits.
[18:52] And so the vet's coming to us going, we'll kind of say gracious, I've been disabled since
[18:56] 2012.
[18:57] I know, but it's harder to prove things that are sort of remote in history than maybe
[19:04] more recently.
[19:06] More importantly, I think one of the things that that does is it because you can only draw
[19:11] Social Security disability benefits for one year prior to your application, sometimes like
[19:16] say this person was disabled in 2018, their date last insured was 2020, they come to us
[19:23] in 2026, we can only get them paid back to 2025 in retroactive benefits.
[19:28] Huge amount of back pay that might be lost.
[19:30] So they lost, they amount of all six or seven years of back pay, you know, and a lot of
[19:37] times vets have high PAs because they have military service, they had good earnings and they
[19:40] had good jobs after.
[19:42] So if that person's got a, you know, a $2,500 a month Social Security disability PAA, then now
[19:50] we're at, I'm not great, 30,000 a year, five, six years, you know, now we've lost, you
[19:56] know, $150, $180,000 in back pay, it's real, it's a lot of money.
[20:02] And there's nothing we do about it because you can only get paid a year prior to the application.
[20:06] So if we don't, if we don't get vets to understand anything at all, don't wait to come into the
[20:13] Social Security disability system just because you have VA disability benefits.
[20:18] There's benefits that are available for you and waiting jeopardizes you being able to
[20:25] get sometimes pretty large amount of money that you could get an addition to your, to your
[20:29] mouth.
[20:31] All right.
[20:32] We're out of time.
[20:33] Already.
[20:34] Yeah.
[20:35] Take away as this.
[20:36] If you're a veteran, one, thank you for your service.
[20:40] There's benefits out there available for you in the, in the VA disability system frequently
[20:45] but also in the Social Security disability system.
[20:47] Understand, these are two different routes that you can take that both provide not only
[20:53] medical benefits, I'm sorry, sorry, financial benefit in terms of monthly, monthly income.
[21:00] But there's medical benefits that come as well.
[21:03] And you want to be maximizing not only your income, but also your ability to get as much
[21:09] medical treatment as you can and for as cheaply as possible and have the flexibility that you
[21:13] want.
[21:14] And one of the great things about Social Security is it places your Medicare, which all of
[21:17] a sudden opens up a much broader range of doctors that you can see and use to treat, to treat
[21:23] your serious condition.
[21:24] So that's it.
[21:27] Another episode, Disability Expert podcast.
[21:29] Thanks for watching.
[21:30] Subscribe.
[21:31] Until next time, take care.
