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Hey everyone, I hope you're all doing so well and
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welcome back to the Criminal Makeup Podcast. Each episode we
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dive into the minds of some of the worst criminals
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in history and today we're going to be talking about
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the case of Joanne Dennehy. So Joanne Dennehy, wow, where
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do I begin? So Joanne Dennehy is often referred to
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as the most dangerous woman in the UK, which is
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a pretty significant and big label in itself. She is
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a female serial killer, which is obviously pretty rare. Now,
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I have been doing true crime for over two years
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at this point, and Joanne Dennehy is still the only
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female serial killer that I have covered. And I'm not
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talking about where there has been a woman, a part
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of a couple, for example, like Myra Hindley or Rose West.
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I'm not talking about those, even though I haven't done
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those cases yet. But Joanne Dennehy acted alone, and she
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is a serial killer. That is so incredibly rare. But
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not just that, she is also one of only three
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women to get a full life sentence in the UK.
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And the other two women that have a full life
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sentence are Myra Hindley and Rose West, which is just
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crazy that she's in that very exclusive club of full
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life sentences for women. And speaking of Rose West, there
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was actually an altercation between Joanne Dennehy and Rose West
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in prison, where Joanne threatened to kill Rose. And Rose
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was so scared for her life that she had to
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move prisons to get away from Joanne. Which is just
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so ironic, isn't it, that Rose West is now scared
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for her life after what she's done. But anyway, today
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we're going to be looking at exactly what Joanne did
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and find out why she has the label of the
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UK's most dangerous woman. So let's jump in. The majority
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of today's case takes place in the city of Peterborough,
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and this case is sometimes known as the Peterborough Ditch Murders.
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because most of it happens in Peterborough. However, Joanne wasn't
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born in Peterborough. She was actually born in Harpenden, Hertfordshire.
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She was born on the 29th of August, which means
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she was a Virgo. And she grew up just with
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her mother and father, Kevin and Kathleen, and her sister, Maria.
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And she had, from what I could find out, just
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a typical... Happy childhood. She really got on with her parents.
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She was really close to them. She was really close
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with her sister. They were best friends. She got really
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good grades in school. And she just looks like such
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a sweet girl. You would not think she would turn
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out to be the UK's most dangerous woman. Also, does
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anyone else think she looks like Matilda? And then suddenly,
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very abruptly, everything just changed. Giovanna's whole behavior, her personality,
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just changed. It was like a light switch. just overnight changed.
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Now I know you're probably thinking, did something happen to
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make this behavior change? And I honestly don't know. I
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tried to find out, I did a lot of research,
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but I couldn't find anything that actually said that something
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happened to make her personality change overnight. After finding out
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what happened in the case, I can't help think that
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something did happen. I don't know. I couldn't find anything out,
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but we'll revisit that anyway later on in the case.
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So yeah, her personality completely changed overnight. She started drinking lots.
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She started taking drugs. She started to turn up to
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school drunk high. Sometimes she wouldn't even turn up to school.
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She fell into the wrong crowd. She was making friends
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with the wrong people. Her parents did not approve at all.
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They tried to get her back onto school, the right
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path but they couldn't they did everything that they possibly
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could and she was just described by people from her
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school as just a typical bully you know the type
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and then at age 13 yeah she was like 13
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when all of this started happening she was really really
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young so when she was 13 she started a relationship
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with an 18 year old um i don't think it
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was a serious relationship but Nevertheless, she started a relationship
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with an 18-year-old. I know five years is not the
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biggest difference when you're an adult, but 13 and 18, no.
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Joanne had just really gone off the rails. There was
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just so many arguments at home between her and her parents.
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They just really clashed because her parents just wanted the
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best for her and Joanne was just making all the
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of the wrong choices in life. And this is just
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a constant cycle for a couple of years because she
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was 13 at that point. But now she's 15 and
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she hasn't changed at all. And she meets a new guy,
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John Treanor, who is 20. And she's 15 at the time.
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So yeah, she seems to have a thing for older men. Yeah,
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make of that of what you will. And I know
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what you're thinking. He's 20, she's 15. That relationship, I
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know the other one was illegal as well, but I
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don't know how serious that relationship got. But this one
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was a serious relationship. She's 15, he's 20. This is illegal. However,
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John has since stated that their relationship never became sexual
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until she was 16, which is the age of consent
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in the UK. And at the age of 16, she
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ran away from home with John. And then at 17,
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she did fall pregnant. I know. her behavior, her drinking,
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her drug taking, her reckless behavior is not ideal, to
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say the least, when you're pregnant. However, by some kind
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of miracle, her personality changed again. She stopped drinking, she
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stopped taking all drugs, she made all of the right decisions,
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did everything that she could to protect her child, which
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was so out of the blue for her, if you
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think about what her previous behavior was like. However, as soon,
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and I mean as soon, no waiting around, as soon
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as the baby was born, she reverted back to what
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she was like before, drinking lots, taking lots of drugs.
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And she was just very cold towards her child as well.
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She didn't bond with her child at all. There was
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like no connection there. And her behavior became more and
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more erratic as time went on. She was drinking more,
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taking heavier drugs. She was cheating on John repeatedly. And
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then Joanne did fall pregnant again with John's child. And
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John feared the worst because her behaviour was very erratic.
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It had gotten worse from the previous pregnancy, like before
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the previous pregnancy. And he was thinking, oh my God, like,
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what is she going to be like with this pregnancy? However... Again,
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her behavior completely changed. She stopped drinking, stopped taking drugs.
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She did everything again, like the first pregnancy to protect
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her child. And then after the birth, you guessed it,
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she went back to her old behavior. And John was
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really trying to make this relationship work. He really wanted
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like Joanne to be the mother that like he had
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in his head. He wanted this little family. However, one
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day Joanne returned home drunk as usual. And she was
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acting more, even more erratic than normal. And she pulls
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out a six inch dagger from her thigh high boots.
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Like you honestly can't make this up. It's like a
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film or something. And she starts waving this knife all
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over the place and starts saying, I want to kill someone.
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And this was breaking point for John. I mean, her
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behavior had been very toxic, volatile before, but she had
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never done this. She had never started waving knives around.
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And saying that she wanted to kill someone. So this
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was the breaking point for John. And he took, at
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that time, his two daughters and left and never returned.
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And Joanne actually never saw her daughters again after this point.
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And considering what's coming, I think that's for the best.
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So after John leaves Joanne, she is now 27. And
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her behavior, if even possible, gets even worse. Her drinking increases.
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She starts taking more drugs, heavier drugs. and she needs
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to fund this somehow. So she turns to prostitution, she
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starts stealing things, she turns to very petty crime to
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fund her habits. And it's just not long until all
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of this behavior Finally lands her in prison. And interestingly,
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when Joanne is in prison, she receives her first mental
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health assessment and she is diagnosed with an antisocial behavior disorder.
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So not long after she leaves prison, she heads to
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Peterborough where she meets 48-year-old Kevin Lee. Kevin Lee owned
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a property letting business. business. He basically let out properties
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and he let out a lot of his properties to
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ex-criminals when they had been released from prison. Obviously, Joanne
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goes to Kevin in hopes that she will find somewhere
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to live because she doesn't have anywhere to live. When
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she first meets Kevin, she immediately introduces herself by telling
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a lie. She tells him that she has been released
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from prison after serving 13 years for murdering her father
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because he abused her from the age of five. Um... Yeah,
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that's quite a story you're telling there, Joanne. Joanne is
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known for lying. So this may be a lie. I mean,
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obviously it was a lie. She didn't murder her father.
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But I'm just talking about the abuse part. I cannot
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confirm or deny. I don't know. But the father has
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denied this allegation profusely. And for some strange reason, Kevin
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took a liking to her. He even had a little
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crush on her. Yeah, because that is the best pickup line.
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I've murdered my father. I don't know. Maybe he has
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daddy issues as well. And they bonded over daddy issues.
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I don't know. I don't know why he took a
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liking to her. Kevin decides, because he has a little
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crush on her, to not only allow her to live
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in one of his properties, but to do it rent free.
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All she had to do in return. And I don't
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really know what you want to call her. Like, I
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don't know what you want to call her job title.
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But she was basically his security detail. He's like unofficial bailiff. Basically,
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she would go around and intimidate all of his tenants
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if they hadn't paid their rent. is basically what she did.
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And to help Joanne with this, Joanne recruits one of
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her friends who is known as Gary Stretch. Now he
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is huge, I'm talking huge. He had just been released
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from prison at this time. And just a little fun fact,
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if you will, he was the tallest prisoner in the UK.
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So he was huge. He was seven foot three. Joanne
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is in her absolute element right now. She's just gone
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back to being that school bully, hasn't she? Just going
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around bullying people, demanding money, just throwing around her power
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that she thinks she has. But obviously she did kind
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of have a bit of power, but oh God, people
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like that. So a few months after Joanne starts working,
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if you will, for Kevin. It's now March 2013 and
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she is 30 years old right now. She meets a
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man called Lukasz Slawodziewski who is 31 years old and
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was originally from Poland and he moved to the UK
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and he was just minding his own business. He was
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out shopping in Peterborough just on a normal day. He
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was very happy and out of the blue a woman
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approaches him and starts flirting with him. And you guessed it, Joanne.
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And I don't know how, but she manages to win
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Lukasz over as well. She leaves with his number. And
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just a few hours later, they're texting each other. They
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get a little bit flirty. They're sexting a bit, you know.
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And Lukasz completely falls for Joanne. There's even messages on
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his phone where he said to his friend that he
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had got an English girlfriend. Life was beautiful. It just,
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oh God, he just didn't have a clue. And obviously,
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why would he? But it just breaks my heart knowing
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what Joanne... is going to do. So on March 19th,
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the day after Joanne and Lukasz meet, Joanne starts texting
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him again, starts sending very sexual messages again. And she
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asks him to come over and she sends him the
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address of just this like empty house where people had
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just moved out. And because she's the security detail, she
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was going around inspecting. So she just texts him this
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empty house address and said, come over, meet me. And
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when Lukasz arrives, I think we can assume what he
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thought was going to happen. However, Joanne had completely different plans.
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They go into the kitchen and she just springs on him.
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She stabs him once. It was in the heart and
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it proved to be fatal. And it was a complete
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surprise attack. Lukasz didn't even see it coming. There was
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absolutely nothing, nothing he could have done. Joanne didn't exactly
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think this through. I don't think she thinks a lot
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of things through, to be honest. She didn't have a
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plan or anything. So she just had a dead body
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in this kitchen and she just didn't know what to do.
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So who does she call? Her equally scary friend, Gary Stretch.
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And together they came up with the amazing plan of
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putting the body in a wheelie bin outside of the property.
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And the murder just didn't seem to faze Joanne at all.
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was acting like she was proud of it, like she
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was bragging about it. There was this incident where a
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14-year-old girl was just passing outside of the property and
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Joanne decides, you know what, I'm going to show this
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14-year-old the dead body because I'm so proud of it.
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She shows the 14-year-old girl the body. Can you imagine
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the trauma of being 14, of being any age, and
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being shown a dead body? I don't know who that
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girl is, but I hope she's okay. Lukasi's body was
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in this wheelie bin for two days. Gary and Joanne
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figured they needed to move this body eventually, so they
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went out and bought a car. So they transferred Lucas's
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body from the wheelie bin into a ditch just on
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the outskirts of Peterborough. And Gary says, no one will
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ever find this body here. This is a good place. Well, Gary,
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I'll tell you now, it wasn't. So Joanne, unfortunately, now
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has the taste for murder. She wants to do more.
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She felt like she'd gotten away with it, because at
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that time she had. She thrived on that, which was very...
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very unfortunate for John Chapman, who was a 56 year
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old widow. He had previously worked for the Royal Navy,
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but he just kind of fell on hard times. And
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he lived with Joanne. He rented a room in the
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00:13:31.269 --> 00:13:33.490
same house that she was living in. And 10 days
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after the murder of Lukasz, she decided that she wanted
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to kill John Chapman as well. I think they'd had
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a little altercation, like a little argument, nothing that crazy.
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But yeah, there was a little like argument, I think,
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the night before. And she was just like, you know what,
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I'm not having this. And yeah, decided to murder him
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in the early hours of the morning while he was sleeping.
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The autopsy showed that he was stabbed a total number
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00:13:54.570 --> 00:13:58.090
of five times in the heart, which did prove fatal.
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And she stabbed him with so much force that that
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00:14:00.870 --> 00:14:04.070
the knife actually went through his breastbone. So later on
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00:14:04.110 --> 00:14:05.720
that morning, because it was the early hours in the
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00:14:05.750 --> 00:14:08.139
morning that she killed John Chapman because he was sleeping.
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00:14:08.220 --> 00:14:12.120
So later on, like that morning, she called Gary Stretch
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00:14:12.399 --> 00:14:13.919
to help her out because he had helped her out
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00:14:13.950 --> 00:14:16.169
in the last one. She phoned Gary up and channeled
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00:14:16.210 --> 00:14:19.610
her inner Britney, said, oops, I did it again. I'm
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00:14:19.649 --> 00:14:22.389
not lying here. And of course, because Gary was obsessed
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00:14:22.429 --> 00:14:24.710
with her, he agreed. He was like, okay, I'll be
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00:14:24.750 --> 00:14:27.269
right over. Now, just like John Chapman, there was another
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00:14:27.340 --> 00:14:30.340
man renting a room in this house and his name
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00:14:30.379 --> 00:14:33.820
was Leslie Layton. And he was another low level criminal
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00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:36.139
and he was friends with both Gary and Joanne. I
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00:14:36.159 --> 00:14:37.700
just want to point out, he was in the house
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00:14:37.740 --> 00:14:39.240
at the time of this murder, like he was just
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00:14:39.299 --> 00:14:42.929
asleep in the next room. Joanne really just didn't care
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00:14:43.009 --> 00:14:45.309
about what she did and who found out. But when
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00:14:45.350 --> 00:14:48.690
Leslie Layton woke up the next morning, Joanne and Gary
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00:14:48.769 --> 00:14:52.350
showed him the body, showed him that Joanne had murdered
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00:14:52.490 --> 00:14:56.529
their roommate. And instead of being horrified like any normal person,
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00:14:57.230 --> 00:15:00.720
he decides to take out his phone and take a picture.
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00:15:01.399 --> 00:15:04.429
of the body. I literally have no words for the
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00:15:04.490 --> 00:15:07.289
kind of person that does that. Who does that? Literally,
284
00:15:07.570 --> 00:15:10.110
who does that? He did delete the photo because he
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00:15:10.169 --> 00:15:12.250
thought that, oh, I'll delete it. No one will be
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00:15:12.309 --> 00:15:14.289
able to see it. And police were able to recover
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00:15:14.340 --> 00:15:17.120
that photo in the forensic search on his phone later on.
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00:15:17.139 --> 00:15:19.559
So Leslie is asked by Joanne and Gary to help
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00:15:19.679 --> 00:15:21.620
out moving the body. And I don't know if Leslie
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00:15:21.659 --> 00:15:24.159
was obsessed with Joanne, but I feel like I'm just
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00:15:24.179 --> 00:15:26.250
going to assume that he was because it does seem
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00:15:26.279 --> 00:15:28.490
like every single man that Joanne comes in contact with
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00:15:28.549 --> 00:15:30.419
becomes obsessed with her. So I'm just going to assume
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that Leslie is also obsessed with Joanne. So of course
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00:15:33.139 --> 00:15:36.120
he agrees. However, all three of them kind of figure
296
00:15:36.220 --> 00:15:38.450
out that there's another problem that they need to deal with.
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00:15:38.759 --> 00:15:53.059
And that is Kevin Lee, who is the landlord. They're
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00:15:53.080 --> 00:15:55.960
worried that Kevin will find out, which he probably will,
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00:15:56.019 --> 00:15:58.340
he will find out that two people have been murdered
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00:15:58.740 --> 00:16:01.179
on his properties. So all three of them decide that
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00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:03.620
they need to do something about that. So Kevin was
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00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:06.029
more than just a landlord to Joanne. I think we've
303
00:16:06.049 --> 00:16:08.809
probably all figured that out anyway. He wasn't just her landlord.
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He was also her lover. They were having an affair
305
00:16:12.070 --> 00:16:14.370
for quite a while. And Joanne used this to her
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00:16:14.409 --> 00:16:17.929
advantage to lure Kevin over. Not that it matters how
307
00:16:17.970 --> 00:16:20.009
she lured him over. The way she did it, I
308
00:16:20.029 --> 00:16:24.240
just found extremely disturbing. She said to him that she
309
00:16:24.250 --> 00:16:28.679
wants to rape him in a dress. I don't even know.
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00:16:29.460 --> 00:16:32.580
And Kevin found this very arousing. But when Kevin arrives,
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00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:35.580
Joanne convinces him to put on one of her black dresses.
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00:16:36.279 --> 00:16:38.860
And Kevin obviously thinks that something else is going to happen.
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00:16:39.279 --> 00:16:42.370
But As we know, Joanne had other plans for Kevin,
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00:16:42.490 --> 00:16:45.190
and this is when she brutally murdered Kevin Lee. The
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00:16:45.289 --> 00:16:47.750
autopsy showed that he was the first victim to put
316
00:16:47.820 --> 00:16:50.879
up a fight because there were self-defense wounds on his hands.
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00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:53.419
And she had stabbed him a total of five times
318
00:16:53.580 --> 00:16:56.500
in the chest, which did prove to be fatal. So
319
00:16:56.539 --> 00:16:59.879
now Joanne, Gary and Leslie, I'm sorry if this story
320
00:16:59.919 --> 00:17:03.299
is confusing, there are so many names that get thrown
321
00:17:03.399 --> 00:17:07.009
into this story. So Joanne, Gary, and Leslie now need
322
00:17:07.029 --> 00:17:11.029
to move the body of John Chapman and Kevin Lee. Yes,
323
00:17:11.509 --> 00:17:14.490
this all happened on the same day. John Chapman's body
324
00:17:14.529 --> 00:17:17.630
was still in the property when Kevin came over. Obviously,
325
00:17:17.650 --> 00:17:21.009
he didn't know that. But wow, Joanne has been busy.
326
00:17:21.069 --> 00:17:23.230
So the three of them decide to hide John Chapman's
327
00:17:23.269 --> 00:17:26.839
body in the same ditch that they placed Lukasz's body.
328
00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:29.759
But they decided to put Kevin Lee in a different ditch.
329
00:17:29.819 --> 00:17:32.339
They decided to put him in a ditch 10 miles away.
330
00:17:33.160 --> 00:17:35.099
I don't know why a different ditch. I don't know,
331
00:17:35.259 --> 00:17:36.640
but they did. And that is why if you haven't
332
00:17:36.660 --> 00:17:38.859
figured it out yet, why this case is also known
333
00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:41.740
as the Peterborough ditch murders. They also needed to destroy
334
00:17:41.779 --> 00:17:44.289
Kevin's car because he arrived in his car to the
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00:17:44.309 --> 00:17:46.410
house and they didn't want to just leave his car
336
00:17:46.430 --> 00:17:48.750
outside the property because that would raise alarm. So they
337
00:17:48.789 --> 00:17:51.250
took his car to a nearby farm and decided to
338
00:17:51.289 --> 00:17:54.950
burn it because that's not inconspicuous. I don't know why
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00:17:55.029 --> 00:17:56.910
they decided to burn out the car. I mean, I
340
00:17:56.930 --> 00:17:58.559
understand why they decided to burn out the car. I
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00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:01.099
just don't understand why they took it to a nearby
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00:18:01.160 --> 00:18:03.220
farm as if it wasn't gonna get found. And the
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00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:06.049
police did find the car the very next day. It
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00:18:06.210 --> 00:18:09.970
was actually Kevin Lee's wife that alerted the police first
345
00:18:10.089 --> 00:18:12.309
and let them know that her husband had gone missing.
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00:18:12.349 --> 00:18:13.970
So then after they found the car, they found the
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00:18:13.990 --> 00:18:17.150
car first, It was just a random person that was
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00:18:17.190 --> 00:18:19.009
just walking. I think they were walking the dog, not
349
00:18:19.069 --> 00:18:20.849
quite sure, but they were just walking and they came
350
00:18:20.910 --> 00:18:23.750
across Kevin's body in this ditch later on the same
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00:18:23.809 --> 00:18:26.609
day that the car was found. Kevin's body wasn't hidden
352
00:18:26.849 --> 00:18:28.390
very well at all. Like even though it was in
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00:18:28.430 --> 00:18:30.569
this ditch, it was just out in the open. Anyone
354
00:18:30.589 --> 00:18:32.210
could have stumbled across it. So, you know, I said,
355
00:18:32.250 --> 00:18:33.710
I don't know why they took the car to a
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00:18:33.730 --> 00:18:35.609
nearby farm. Like obviously it was going to get found.
357
00:18:35.630 --> 00:18:38.690
I don't think they cared. And Kevin's body was left
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00:18:39.019 --> 00:18:43.670
in a... horrible, degrading, humiliating way. The dress had been
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00:18:43.730 --> 00:18:46.970
pulled up to expose him from the waist down and
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00:18:47.009 --> 00:18:49.930
it was very clear that the body had been sexually
361
00:18:50.009 --> 00:18:54.099
assaulted with an object after death. That takes a sick individual,
362
00:18:54.339 --> 00:18:57.460
it really does. The police naturally go to Kevin's phone
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00:18:57.519 --> 00:18:59.940
to look for clues and they see the texts from
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00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:03.259
Joanne on Kevin's phone. So she immediately becomes a person
365
00:19:03.339 --> 00:19:06.680
of interest. They go to the property, Joanne's property that
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00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:11.609
she lived, and they find A blood soaked mattress Which
367
00:19:11.650 --> 00:19:15.829
they immediately think This has got to be Kevin's blood
368
00:19:15.890 --> 00:19:18.809
But no Found out after testing the mattress That that
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00:19:18.849 --> 00:19:23.890
blood belonged to John Chapman Who, coincidentally, the police also
370
00:19:23.910 --> 00:19:26.650
figured out Oh, he's missing as well So now police
371
00:19:26.690 --> 00:19:30.089
think that Joanne could have possibly murdered two people They
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00:19:30.130 --> 00:19:33.670
put out descriptions of them to police nationwide And they're
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00:19:33.690 --> 00:19:37.549
pretty distinctive in their appearance Joanne has a very distinctive
374
00:19:37.630 --> 00:19:41.170
star tattoo on her face And Gary's stretch Is obviously
375
00:19:41.930 --> 00:19:44.279
Very very tall And it's not too long After they
376
00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:47.180
release Their images That a police officer recognizes both of
377
00:19:47.240 --> 00:19:49.660
them from a local petrol station that he was attending
378
00:19:49.720 --> 00:19:53.309
because this petrol station had just been robbed. Two guesses
379
00:19:53.390 --> 00:19:55.490
as to who did that robbery. The police now have
380
00:19:55.529 --> 00:19:58.450
the registration of the car that Gary and Joanne are
381
00:19:58.470 --> 00:20:00.670
traveling in. And they were able to track the car
382
00:20:00.789 --> 00:20:04.519
with road cameras, which is pretty extensive in the UK.
383
00:20:04.579 --> 00:20:07.400
They find that they were recently traveling down a motorway
384
00:20:07.539 --> 00:20:10.019
and that they stopped at a service station because they
385
00:20:10.039 --> 00:20:13.640
had been caught on CCTV. And they look so relaxed.
386
00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:15.220
So they are on the run, even though I don't
387
00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:17.859
really think they care. They're not taking this seriously at all.
388
00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:20.380
I mean, they stop at a friend's flat on the
389
00:20:20.440 --> 00:20:28.430
way and take some very weird pictures. I'm just gonna
390
00:20:28.509 --> 00:20:32.079
say that. Some very weird pictures and also some scary
391
00:20:32.170 --> 00:20:35.099
ones as well. They decide that they're gonna need some money.
392
00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:36.420
If they're gonna be on the run they're gonna need
393
00:20:36.440 --> 00:20:38.819
some money and Joanne decides that she wants to be
394
00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:41.359
Bonnie and Clyde. They break into some houses, they steal
395
00:20:41.539 --> 00:20:45.420
items and then they go and visit Gary's friend Mark
396
00:20:45.579 --> 00:20:48.660
Lloyd because they need to turn these stolen items into
397
00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:52.430
cash quick and Mark Lloyd according to Gary, can help
398
00:20:52.450 --> 00:20:56.369
with this. And Mark wasn't keen on helping them. Like,
399
00:20:56.450 --> 00:20:58.509
he didn't want to help them at all. And in
400
00:20:58.569 --> 00:21:01.430
true Joanne fashion, she thrans him. She pulls out her
401
00:21:01.490 --> 00:21:04.079
knife and says, I've just killed three people. You're going
402
00:21:04.099 --> 00:21:06.460
to help us. And now, scared for his life, Mark
403
00:21:06.980 --> 00:21:09.160
agrees to help them. So Mark gets in the car.
404
00:21:09.559 --> 00:21:12.500
They drive off and Mark has since reported that he
405
00:21:12.619 --> 00:21:17.859
could not believe how just relaxed Joanne and Gary, but
406
00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:21.200
particularly Joanne, he could not get over how relaxed and
407
00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:23.599
calm she was. It's like she just wanted to have fun.
408
00:21:23.700 --> 00:21:25.019
It's like she was on a road trip, like she
409
00:21:25.059 --> 00:21:27.400
was taking selfies. And there's a little incident where they
410
00:21:27.420 --> 00:21:30.589
stop off at a services and there's footage of them
411
00:21:30.869 --> 00:21:33.670
stopping to buy cigarettes. And you can see Joanne and
412
00:21:33.710 --> 00:21:37.369
Mark on the CCTV footage. And from the CCTV footage,
413
00:21:37.470 --> 00:21:39.289
it just kind of looks like i don't know like
414
00:21:39.650 --> 00:21:43.150
normal people buying things from a shop um however when
415
00:21:43.190 --> 00:21:45.309
you actually know what was going on it's a lot
416
00:21:45.329 --> 00:21:47.700
more sinister than what it looks joanne had a knife
417
00:21:47.779 --> 00:21:50.380
in her pocket and was threatening mark she was whispering
418
00:21:50.420 --> 00:21:52.480
in his ear and then she just turns around and
419
00:21:52.519 --> 00:21:54.900
starts flirting with the cashier she knows how to flip
420
00:21:54.940 --> 00:21:56.779
on that charm doesn't she joanne it's just so very
421
00:21:56.859 --> 00:21:59.940
weird joanne flirts with everyone when they get back in
422
00:21:59.960 --> 00:22:02.769
the car after buying the cigarettes joanne turns to gary
423
00:22:02.849 --> 00:22:06.099
and says i want to murder someone Find me someone
424
00:22:06.460 --> 00:22:09.200
with a dog. Just so blasé about the whole situation,
425
00:22:09.240 --> 00:22:11.980
just like a throwaway comment. So of course Gary complies
426
00:22:12.119 --> 00:22:14.900
because he does everything that Joanne says. And he finds
427
00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:18.099
a dog walker just on the side of the street
428
00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:20.359
and he's like, will that one do? And Joanne's like, yeah,
429
00:22:20.420 --> 00:22:22.220
that one will do. I want that one. He pulls
430
00:22:22.319 --> 00:22:27.619
over and Joanne gets out and attacks 63-year-old Robin. She
431
00:22:27.660 --> 00:22:31.779
attacks him from behind, stabbing him twice in the shoulder. Now,
432
00:22:31.960 --> 00:22:35.720
Robin did survive this attack, thankfully. And he has said
433
00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:38.420
that he didn't realize he was being stabbed at the time.
434
00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:40.769
He just felt like someone was punching him really hard.
435
00:22:40.809 --> 00:22:43.049
Like at first, he didn't realize that he was being attacked.
436
00:22:43.230 --> 00:22:46.029
And he turned around, saw Joanne, and he fought back.
437
00:22:46.069 --> 00:22:48.529
He kicked out at her. And yeah, he just got away.
438
00:22:48.609 --> 00:22:51.339
He managed to get away. And luckily for Robin, Joanne
439
00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:53.859
didn't pursue him because Gary had pulled up in the
440
00:22:53.900 --> 00:22:55.980
car and just said, Joanne, get in the car. And
441
00:22:56.000 --> 00:22:57.640
I don't know what happened to the dog, because obviously
442
00:22:57.680 --> 00:22:59.460
he was walking her dog. I don't know what happened
443
00:22:59.480 --> 00:23:01.059
to the dog. I know that's what you're all thinking.
444
00:23:01.079 --> 00:23:03.089
I couldn't find out, but the fact that I couldn't
445
00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:05.450
find out anything that happened to the dog, I am
446
00:23:05.490 --> 00:23:07.210
going to say that the dog was okay. I feel
447
00:23:07.250 --> 00:23:09.690
like the dog just ran off with its owner when
448
00:23:09.730 --> 00:23:11.910
the owner ran off. And amazingly, Robin is able to
449
00:23:11.990 --> 00:23:15.099
stagger home and call an ambulance for himself. And if
450
00:23:15.160 --> 00:23:18.160
the paramedics didn't act quick enough, he would have died
451
00:23:18.220 --> 00:23:21.680
from his injuries, because blood had started to pool internally.
452
00:23:21.819 --> 00:23:24.660
Jumping back to the car now, like Joanne has just
453
00:23:24.700 --> 00:23:27.000
got back into the car with Gary. She gets back
454
00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:28.980
into the car with Gary, kisses him on the cheek
455
00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:32.829
and says thank you. Thank you. She also says she
456
00:23:32.869 --> 00:23:34.809
wants to do more. Mark is just sat in the
457
00:23:34.849 --> 00:23:37.930
back of this car. He can't believe what is going
458
00:23:38.069 --> 00:23:40.990
on and you know what Mark? Neither can I. Wow.
459
00:23:41.190 --> 00:23:44.650
So they drive off and Joanne is very clear of
460
00:23:44.730 --> 00:23:46.509
who she wants to murder. She says that she does
461
00:23:46.549 --> 00:23:50.950
not want to kill any women, especially with children. She
462
00:23:50.990 --> 00:23:52.859
wants to kill a man and she wants to kill
463
00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:54.940
a man with a dog. I don't know what the
464
00:23:54.980 --> 00:23:58.660
situation is with the dog, I don't know, but that's
465
00:23:58.720 --> 00:24:01.000
clearly her thing. And I feel like the fact that
466
00:24:01.059 --> 00:24:07.049
she's so adamant about killing a man means something. That's
467
00:24:07.089 --> 00:24:09.470
just my opinion. After driving around for nine minutes looking
468
00:24:09.490 --> 00:24:12.430
for someone with a dog, they do come across someone
469
00:24:12.470 --> 00:24:16.029
called John Rogers and Joanne jumps out of the car
470
00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:19.980
and attacks him. And this attack is way more brutal.
471
00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:22.740
She starts stabbing him in the back and then moves
472
00:24:22.759 --> 00:24:25.480
to start stabbing him in his front. She stabbed him
473
00:24:25.529 --> 00:24:30.410
a total of 30 times. These crimes These attacks are escalating.
474
00:24:30.529 --> 00:24:32.519
It's like she's constantly trying to chase that high. She
475
00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:34.779
then took the dog. Yeah, she took the dog in
476
00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:36.619
this one. And I know what you're all thinking, but
477
00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:39.799
the dog was okay in this situation. I did find
478
00:24:39.880 --> 00:24:41.960
out what happened to the dog. The dog was completely fine.
479
00:24:42.029 --> 00:24:44.029
She did not harm that dog at all. And John
480
00:24:44.069 --> 00:24:46.230
managed to crawl a hundred yards where he passed a
481
00:24:46.329 --> 00:24:49.730
woman who was able to call an ambulance. And miraculously, John...
482
00:24:49.990 --> 00:24:52.700
also survived this attack, and I don't know how. It
483
00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:55.500
was an absolute miracle that he survived. He suffered deep
484
00:24:55.539 --> 00:24:59.059
wounds to his chest, back, and abdominal. He suffered nine
485
00:24:59.259 --> 00:25:02.519
fractured ribs. Both of his lungs had collapsed. His bowel
486
00:25:02.559 --> 00:25:05.789
was completely torn open and exposed. I don't know how
487
00:25:05.849 --> 00:25:09.289
he managed to crawl one yard, let alone a hundred yards,
488
00:25:09.369 --> 00:25:11.529
and like I said, it was by some miracle that
489
00:25:11.549 --> 00:25:14.359
he did survive this attack, and he was reunited with
490
00:25:14.390 --> 00:25:17.809
his dog when the police finally catch up to Joanne,
491
00:25:17.910 --> 00:25:20.190
which is gonna happen now. So just revisiting what I
492
00:25:20.250 --> 00:25:22.630
said about the men with dogs, like why was she
493
00:25:22.650 --> 00:25:25.119
so adamant about killing men? I just feel like this,
494
00:25:25.140 --> 00:25:27.900
I don't wanna say proves because it doesn't prove anything,
495
00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:31.119
but I just feel like it does point towards some
496
00:25:31.160 --> 00:25:34.769
sort of abuse happening when she was teenager, just before
497
00:25:34.829 --> 00:25:37.630
her sudden behavioural change when she was a young teenager.
498
00:25:37.690 --> 00:25:39.430
I just think there's been a few things. The fact
499
00:25:39.450 --> 00:25:42.009
that she's so adamant about killing men, the fact that
500
00:25:42.029 --> 00:25:44.450
she likes to have power and control over men, the
501
00:25:44.470 --> 00:25:45.990
fact that she ran away with older men when she
502
00:25:46.039 --> 00:25:47.900
was younger, and I just think as well the fact
503
00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:51.059
that she was so adamant about not killing women, especially
504
00:25:51.079 --> 00:25:53.380
with children. I think if we just revisit how she
505
00:25:53.420 --> 00:25:56.420
was when she was pregnant, she did everything right when
506
00:25:56.460 --> 00:25:58.819
she was pregnant. She stopped drinking, she stopped taking drugs,
507
00:25:59.339 --> 00:26:02.769
She completely changed her behavior to protect her child. And
508
00:26:03.220 --> 00:26:05.430
this is just my opinion. This is just my analysis.
509
00:26:05.549 --> 00:26:08.470
But it seems like she wants to protect children in
510
00:26:08.490 --> 00:26:11.430
a strange way because maybe she didn't feel protected when
511
00:26:11.509 --> 00:26:13.890
she was a child. I don't know. I'm no expert.
512
00:26:14.069 --> 00:26:16.809
I do have a degree in criminology, but that definitely
513
00:26:16.849 --> 00:26:18.650
doesn't make me an expert. And all of this is
514
00:26:18.690 --> 00:26:21.069
just my opinion. And none of that has been proven.
515
00:26:21.130 --> 00:26:23.799
But I just thought it was interesting. So after the
516
00:26:23.980 --> 00:26:28.079
attacks on Robin and John, Joanne still wants more. She
517
00:26:28.220 --> 00:26:32.380
still wants to kill more people. However, thankfully, at this point,
518
00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:34.960
the police have managed to catch up with her, surround
519
00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:37.720
the car, and they do arrest her. Again, once Joanne
520
00:26:37.940 --> 00:26:41.240
is arrested, she starts bloody flirting with everyone again. I
521
00:26:41.369 --> 00:26:44.279
don't know what is with Joanne. And when she's at
522
00:26:44.299 --> 00:26:47.099
the police station, she's laughing, she's joking around with the
523
00:26:47.140 --> 00:26:52.829
police officers. This is amazing. It looks good. Thanks. It's
524
00:26:52.930 --> 00:27:01.660
so good. Really sexy. There are just so many examples
525
00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:06.259
throughout this whole story that she's been able to charm
526
00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:27.769
men left, right and centre And I don't get it!
527
00:27:27.950 --> 00:27:31.029
So during the investigation, the interviews and all stuff like that,
528
00:27:31.309 --> 00:27:35.150
the police are expecting Joanne to spill her guts, basically,
529
00:27:35.190 --> 00:27:38.950
because from her personality, she likes to brag about her crimes.
530
00:27:38.970 --> 00:27:42.259
She's very proud of them. She shouts them from the rooftop. However,
531
00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:45.980
she says absolutely nothing, changes up her behavior once again,
532
00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:48.799
becomes a mute. However, this doesn't matter. The police have
533
00:27:48.980 --> 00:27:51.099
so much evidence against her and they have found the
534
00:27:51.140 --> 00:27:54.410
other two bodies. in Peterborough, the bodies of John Chapman
535
00:27:54.609 --> 00:27:59.230
and Lukasz Slabajewski. With the three murders, the two stabbings, yeah,
536
00:27:59.250 --> 00:28:01.349
they have enough evidence. They don't really need her to talk,
537
00:28:01.410 --> 00:28:03.670
but they were just expecting her to. Mark Lloyd, do
538
00:28:03.690 --> 00:28:05.210
you remember Mark? The one that was riding in the
539
00:28:05.250 --> 00:28:08.259
back of the car against his will? He cooperated fully
540
00:28:08.299 --> 00:28:10.339
with the police and he was not charged with anything
541
00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:13.240
because the police did believe that he was completely innocent
542
00:28:13.259 --> 00:28:15.940
and was in that car against his will. However, Joanne
543
00:28:15.980 --> 00:28:19.119
was found guilty of all offences and was sentenced to
544
00:28:19.339 --> 00:28:22.339
a complete death life sentence. And like I said in
545
00:28:22.359 --> 00:28:24.640
the beginning of the video, she is only one of
546
00:28:24.940 --> 00:28:28.180
three women in the UK to have received that sentence.
547
00:28:28.380 --> 00:28:31.720
And the other two women, Myra Hindley and Rose West.
548
00:28:31.940 --> 00:28:36.019
Gary Stretch and Leslie Layton were also prosecuted. Gary Stretch
549
00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:39.819
was sentenced to life with a minimum of 19 years
550
00:28:39.880 --> 00:28:44.309
before parole. And Leslie Layton was sentenced to 14 years.
551
00:28:44.509 --> 00:28:47.109
Now there was actually a debate on whether Joanne is
552
00:28:47.170 --> 00:28:50.230
classed as a serial killer or a spree killer. because
553
00:28:50.250 --> 00:28:54.009
she technically doesn't really fit into either category, because a
554
00:28:54.049 --> 00:28:56.960
serial killer is defined as someone who kills at least
555
00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:00.400
three people, which obviously Joanne did. However, these murders normally
556
00:29:00.839 --> 00:29:03.809
take place over a period of at least a month,
557
00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:09.700
and there is normally significant downtime in between each murders. Now,
558
00:29:09.720 --> 00:29:13.369
Joanne doesn't fit this because from the first murder of
559
00:29:13.410 --> 00:29:16.130
Lukasz and the day that she was arrested was 10
560
00:29:16.130 --> 00:29:19.130
days However, a spree killer normally kills in a shorter
561
00:29:19.150 --> 00:29:22.109
period of 10 days So Joanne kind of fits in
562
00:29:22.130 --> 00:29:23.549
the middle So there is a bit of a debate
563
00:29:23.589 --> 00:29:25.769
whether she's classed as a serial killer or as a
564
00:29:25.789 --> 00:29:29.910
spree killer So, yeah, she's a serial spree killer When
565
00:29:29.990 --> 00:29:34.289
Joanne was in prison, she was unsurprisingly diagnosed as being
566
00:29:34.309 --> 00:29:37.730
a psychopath. And she did tell psychiatrists that she had
567
00:29:37.789 --> 00:29:40.660
been sexually abused when she was a child. And just
568
00:29:40.700 --> 00:29:43.900
from what has happened in this case, I do feel
569
00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:47.079
like that makes a lot of sense. And I'm not
570
00:29:47.140 --> 00:29:50.279
trying to make Joanne Dennehy a victim here at all.
571
00:29:50.400 --> 00:29:52.319
I'm really not. But I think it just kind of
572
00:29:52.380 --> 00:29:54.880
helps make certain things make a little bit more sense.
573
00:29:54.940 --> 00:29:57.710
And I think it just helps us understand Joanne Dennehy's
574
00:29:57.769 --> 00:30:00.150
mind a little bit more. So you probably think, This
575
00:30:00.170 --> 00:30:04.109
story ends there. But this is Joanne Dennehy, the most
576
00:30:04.269 --> 00:30:08.579
dangerous woman in the UK. There are still more crazy
577
00:30:08.630 --> 00:30:11.220
things that happened when she went to prison. She first
578
00:30:11.240 --> 00:30:14.920
got caught planning an escape from prison. She had planned
579
00:30:14.980 --> 00:30:19.500
to kill the guard, cut off the guard's finger, and
580
00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:24.240
then use that finger to unlock the biometric lock. Yeah,
581
00:30:24.259 --> 00:30:31.579
it sounds completely far-fetched. Wow. But... scarily believable in the
582
00:30:31.619 --> 00:30:34.259
case of Johan Dennehy. She then, as we know, decided
583
00:30:34.299 --> 00:30:36.579
to pick a fight with Rose West. I don't really
584
00:30:36.819 --> 00:30:38.660
know why she picked a fight with Rose West, but
585
00:30:38.680 --> 00:30:41.180
I think she had an issue with Rose West because
586
00:30:41.220 --> 00:30:43.789
Johan Dennehy wanted to be the top dog in the
587
00:30:43.960 --> 00:30:47.609
prison system. I don't know. Because Myra Hindley had died
588
00:30:47.690 --> 00:30:50.819
back in 2002, so at this point when Joanne was
589
00:30:50.900 --> 00:30:54.059
in prison, Rose West was the only other contender for
590
00:30:54.119 --> 00:30:59.150
top dog, if you will. Back in 2019, Joanne was
591
00:30:59.269 --> 00:31:02.789
transferred to the same high security prison that Rose West
592
00:31:02.829 --> 00:31:05.829
was in. Rose West is currently 65 at this point.
593
00:31:05.930 --> 00:31:07.730
And like I said, I think Joanne wanted to be
594
00:31:07.789 --> 00:31:10.210
top dog. I think she saw this as her opportunity
595
00:31:10.250 --> 00:31:13.069
to prove that she was top dog because from her
596
00:31:13.109 --> 00:31:15.509
past behavior, from her characteristics, we know that she likes
597
00:31:15.529 --> 00:31:17.319
to be in charge. She likes to be in control.
598
00:31:17.339 --> 00:31:19.460
She likes to throw around her power and she threatened
599
00:31:19.480 --> 00:31:21.880
to kill Rose West. And the prison took the threat
600
00:31:21.940 --> 00:31:25.319
on Rose West's life so seriously. I mean, to be honest,
601
00:31:25.380 --> 00:31:27.839
I don't blame them if this is Joanne Dennehy that
602
00:31:27.859 --> 00:31:30.420
we're talking about. They took the threat so seriously that
603
00:31:30.440 --> 00:31:35.990
they moved Rose from this prison for Rose West's own safety.
604
00:31:36.130 --> 00:31:39.569
Words I thought would never come out of my mouth.
605
00:31:39.869 --> 00:31:43.509
And apparently Rose West was devastated about this because she'd
606
00:31:43.549 --> 00:31:46.839
been at this prison for 10 years at this point.
607
00:31:47.619 --> 00:31:50.480
And she was so devastated. She was crying that she
608
00:31:50.519 --> 00:31:52.920
had to leave this prison. And the reason why she
609
00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:55.950
was so devastated about leaving this prison is because she
610
00:31:56.009 --> 00:32:00.390
enjoyed baking cakes. And the new prison that she was
611
00:32:00.410 --> 00:32:04.109
being transferred to didn't have the facilities or something for
612
00:32:04.150 --> 00:32:09.910
her to bake cakes. Wow. Now that right there is
613
00:32:09.950 --> 00:32:13.759
a sad story. Paul Rose West. So yeah, that was
614
00:32:13.799 --> 00:32:17.420
the case of Joanne Dennehy, the UK's most dangerous woman.
615
00:32:17.589 --> 00:32:21.490
And I think from that story, we can all completely
616
00:32:21.569 --> 00:32:26.690
understand why she's been given that title. Congratulations, Joanne Dennehy.
617
00:32:26.799 --> 00:32:30.079
You have proven yourself to be the top dog. Well done.
618
00:32:33.569 --> 00:32:35.630
And that brings us to the end of this episode.
619
00:32:35.690 --> 00:32:38.430
Thank you so much everyone for listening today. Subscribe or
620
00:32:38.470 --> 00:32:40.349
follow to make sure you never miss an episode of
621
00:32:40.369 --> 00:32:42.880
The Criminal Makeup. And if you enjoy the show, it
622
00:32:42.900 --> 00:32:44.720
would really mean a lot if you could leave a
623
00:32:44.759 --> 00:32:47.579
five-star review. In the meantime, if you've been affected by
624
00:32:47.779 --> 00:32:49.940
any of the themes in this episode, please take the
625
00:32:49.980 --> 00:32:52.140
time to look at the description for this episode for
626
00:32:52.180 --> 00:32:55.529
some helpful resources. Special thanks to my producers at Audioboom
627
00:32:55.549 --> 00:32:57.460
Studios and I'll see you all in the next one.
1
00:00:09.980 --> 00:00:12.240
Hey everyone, I hope you're all doing so well and
2
00:00:12.279 --> 00:00:15.380
welcome back to the Criminal Makeup Podcast. Each episode we
3
00:00:15.400 --> 00:00:17.519
dive into the minds of some of the worst criminals
4
00:00:17.620 --> 00:00:19.940
in history and today we're going to be talking about
5
00:00:19.960 --> 00:00:23.960
the case of Joanne Dennehy. So Joanne Dennehy, wow, where
6
00:00:24.019 --> 00:00:27.519
do I begin? So Joanne Dennehy is often referred to
7
00:00:27.640 --> 00:00:30.739
as the most dangerous woman in the UK, which is
8
00:00:30.800 --> 00:00:35.060
a pretty significant and big label in itself. She is
9
00:00:35.119 --> 00:00:40.320
a female serial killer, which is obviously pretty rare. Now,
10
00:00:40.439 --> 00:00:43.880
I have been doing true crime for over two years
11
00:00:43.939 --> 00:00:47.200
at this point, and Joanne Dennehy is still the only
12
00:00:47.299 --> 00:00:50.149
female serial killer that I have covered. And I'm not
13
00:00:50.189 --> 00:00:52.750
talking about where there has been a woman, a part
14
00:00:52.909 --> 00:00:55.969
of a couple, for example, like Myra Hindley or Rose West.
15
00:00:56.009 --> 00:00:57.890
I'm not talking about those, even though I haven't done
16
00:00:57.929 --> 00:01:01.070
those cases yet. But Joanne Dennehy acted alone, and she
17
00:01:01.130 --> 00:01:04.430
is a serial killer. That is so incredibly rare. But
18
00:01:04.469 --> 00:01:07.310
not just that, she is also one of only three
19
00:01:07.510 --> 00:01:10.489
women to get a full life sentence in the UK.
20
00:01:10.689 --> 00:01:13.390
And the other two women that have a full life
21
00:01:13.409 --> 00:01:17.480
sentence are Myra Hindley and Rose West, which is just
22
00:01:17.560 --> 00:01:21.980
crazy that she's in that very exclusive club of full
23
00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:25.579
life sentences for women. And speaking of Rose West, there
24
00:01:25.620 --> 00:01:29.329
was actually an altercation between Joanne Dennehy and Rose West
25
00:01:29.489 --> 00:01:33.909
in prison, where Joanne threatened to kill Rose. And Rose
26
00:01:33.950 --> 00:01:36.170
was so scared for her life that she had to
27
00:01:36.230 --> 00:01:38.689
move prisons to get away from Joanne. Which is just
28
00:01:38.730 --> 00:01:41.719
so ironic, isn't it, that Rose West is now scared
29
00:01:41.739 --> 00:01:44.379
for her life after what she's done. But anyway, today
30
00:01:44.420 --> 00:01:47.019
we're going to be looking at exactly what Joanne did
31
00:01:47.409 --> 00:01:49.950
and find out why she has the label of the
32
00:01:50.140 --> 00:01:59.909
UK's most dangerous woman. So let's jump in. The majority
33
00:02:00.049 --> 00:02:03.530
of today's case takes place in the city of Peterborough,
34
00:02:03.590 --> 00:02:06.829
and this case is sometimes known as the Peterborough Ditch Murders.
35
00:02:07.780 --> 00:02:10.710
because most of it happens in Peterborough. However, Joanne wasn't
36
00:02:10.789 --> 00:02:13.889
born in Peterborough. She was actually born in Harpenden, Hertfordshire.
37
00:02:14.009 --> 00:02:16.330
She was born on the 29th of August, which means
38
00:02:16.370 --> 00:02:18.030
she was a Virgo. And she grew up just with
39
00:02:18.110 --> 00:02:21.500
her mother and father, Kevin and Kathleen, and her sister, Maria.
40
00:02:21.659 --> 00:02:23.860
And she had, from what I could find out, just
41
00:02:23.960 --> 00:02:27.169
a typical... Happy childhood. She really got on with her parents.
42
00:02:27.210 --> 00:02:29.349
She was really close to them. She was really close
43
00:02:29.370 --> 00:02:31.750
with her sister. They were best friends. She got really
44
00:02:31.770 --> 00:02:34.189
good grades in school. And she just looks like such
45
00:02:34.210 --> 00:02:37.090
a sweet girl. You would not think she would turn
46
00:02:37.150 --> 00:02:40.219
out to be the UK's most dangerous woman. Also, does
47
00:02:40.259 --> 00:02:42.599
anyone else think she looks like Matilda? And then suddenly,
48
00:02:43.240 --> 00:02:48.400
very abruptly, everything just changed. Giovanna's whole behavior, her personality,
49
00:02:48.939 --> 00:02:52.310
just changed. It was like a light switch. just overnight changed.
50
00:02:52.430 --> 00:02:54.590
Now I know you're probably thinking, did something happen to
51
00:02:54.650 --> 00:02:57.849
make this behavior change? And I honestly don't know. I
52
00:02:58.210 --> 00:03:00.280
tried to find out, I did a lot of research,
53
00:03:00.289 --> 00:03:03.900
but I couldn't find anything that actually said that something
54
00:03:04.020 --> 00:03:07.919
happened to make her personality change overnight. After finding out
55
00:03:08.039 --> 00:03:11.219
what happened in the case, I can't help think that
56
00:03:11.280 --> 00:03:14.520
something did happen. I don't know. I couldn't find anything out,
57
00:03:14.580 --> 00:03:17.659
but we'll revisit that anyway later on in the case.
58
00:03:17.780 --> 00:03:21.870
So yeah, her personality completely changed overnight. She started drinking lots.
59
00:03:22.210 --> 00:03:25.110
She started taking drugs. She started to turn up to
60
00:03:25.189 --> 00:03:28.330
school drunk high. Sometimes she wouldn't even turn up to school.
61
00:03:28.389 --> 00:03:30.789
She fell into the wrong crowd. She was making friends
62
00:03:30.830 --> 00:03:34.530
with the wrong people. Her parents did not approve at all.
63
00:03:34.590 --> 00:03:36.830
They tried to get her back onto school, the right
64
00:03:36.889 --> 00:03:39.889
path but they couldn't they did everything that they possibly
65
00:03:39.949 --> 00:03:42.509
could and she was just described by people from her
66
00:03:42.569 --> 00:03:47.080
school as just a typical bully you know the type
67
00:03:47.360 --> 00:03:51.240
and then at age 13 yeah she was like 13
68
00:03:51.240 --> 00:03:53.780
when all of this started happening she was really really
69
00:03:53.800 --> 00:03:57.919
young so when she was 13 she started a relationship
70
00:03:58.080 --> 00:04:00.580
with an 18 year old um i don't think it
71
00:04:00.620 --> 00:04:05.110
was a serious relationship but Nevertheless, she started a relationship
72
00:04:05.289 --> 00:04:08.250
with an 18-year-old. I know five years is not the
73
00:04:08.270 --> 00:04:13.539
biggest difference when you're an adult, but 13 and 18, no.
74
00:04:13.879 --> 00:04:16.160
Joanne had just really gone off the rails. There was
75
00:04:16.199 --> 00:04:19.060
just so many arguments at home between her and her parents.
76
00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:21.050
They just really clashed because her parents just wanted the
77
00:04:21.089 --> 00:04:23.870
best for her and Joanne was just making all the
78
00:04:24.250 --> 00:04:26.120
of the wrong choices in life. And this is just
79
00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:28.879
a constant cycle for a couple of years because she
80
00:04:28.920 --> 00:04:31.879
was 13 at that point. But now she's 15 and
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she hasn't changed at all. And she meets a new guy,
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John Treanor, who is 20. And she's 15 at the time.
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So yeah, she seems to have a thing for older men. Yeah,
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make of that of what you will. And I know
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what you're thinking. He's 20, she's 15. That relationship, I
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know the other one was illegal as well, but I
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don't know how serious that relationship got. But this one
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was a serious relationship. She's 15, he's 20. This is illegal. However,
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John has since stated that their relationship never became sexual
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until she was 16, which is the age of consent
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in the UK. And at the age of 16, she
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ran away from home with John. And then at 17,
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she did fall pregnant. I know. her behavior, her drinking,
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her drug taking, her reckless behavior is not ideal, to
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say the least, when you're pregnant. However, by some kind
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of miracle, her personality changed again. She stopped drinking, she
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stopped taking all drugs, she made all of the right decisions,
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did everything that she could to protect her child, which
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was so out of the blue for her, if you
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think about what her previous behavior was like. However, as soon,
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and I mean as soon, no waiting around, as soon
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as the baby was born, she reverted back to what
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she was like before, drinking lots, taking lots of drugs.
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And she was just very cold towards her child as well.
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She didn't bond with her child at all. There was
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like no connection there. And her behavior became more and
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more erratic as time went on. She was drinking more,
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taking heavier drugs. She was cheating on John repeatedly. And
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then Joanne did fall pregnant again with John's child. And
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John feared the worst because her behaviour was very erratic.
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It had gotten worse from the previous pregnancy, like before
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the previous pregnancy. And he was thinking, oh my God, like,
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what is she going to be like with this pregnancy? However... Again,
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her behavior completely changed. She stopped drinking, stopped taking drugs.
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She did everything again, like the first pregnancy to protect
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her child. And then after the birth, you guessed it,
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she went back to her old behavior. And John was
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really trying to make this relationship work. He really wanted
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like Joanne to be the mother that like he had
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in his head. He wanted this little family. However, one
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day Joanne returned home drunk as usual. And she was
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acting more, even more erratic than normal. And she pulls
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out a six inch dagger from her thigh high boots.
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Like you honestly can't make this up. It's like a
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film or something. And she starts waving this knife all
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over the place and starts saying, I want to kill someone.
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And this was breaking point for John. I mean, her
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behavior had been very toxic, volatile before, but she had
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never done this. She had never started waving knives around.
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And saying that she wanted to kill someone. So this
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was the breaking point for John. And he took, at
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that time, his two daughters and left and never returned.
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And Joanne actually never saw her daughters again after this point.
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And considering what's coming, I think that's for the best.
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So after John leaves Joanne, she is now 27. And
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her behavior, if even possible, gets even worse. Her drinking increases.
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She starts taking more drugs, heavier drugs. and she needs
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to fund this somehow. So she turns to prostitution, she
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starts stealing things, she turns to very petty crime to
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fund her habits. And it's just not long until all
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of this behavior Finally lands her in prison. And interestingly,
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when Joanne is in prison, she receives her first mental
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health assessment and she is diagnosed with an antisocial behavior disorder.
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So not long after she leaves prison, she heads to
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Peterborough where she meets 48-year-old Kevin Lee. Kevin Lee owned
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a property letting business. business. He basically let out properties
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and he let out a lot of his properties to
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ex-criminals when they had been released from prison. Obviously, Joanne
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goes to Kevin in hopes that she will find somewhere
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to live because she doesn't have anywhere to live. When
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she first meets Kevin, she immediately introduces herself by telling
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a lie. She tells him that she has been released
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from prison after serving 13 years for murdering her father
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because he abused her from the age of five. Um... Yeah,
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that's quite a story you're telling there, Joanne. Joanne is
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known for lying. So this may be a lie. I mean,
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obviously it was a lie. She didn't murder her father.
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But I'm just talking about the abuse part. I cannot
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confirm or deny. I don't know. But the father has
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denied this allegation profusely. And for some strange reason, Kevin
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took a liking to her. He even had a little
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crush on her. Yeah, because that is the best pickup line.
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I've murdered my father. I don't know. Maybe he has
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daddy issues as well. And they bonded over daddy issues.
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I don't know. I don't know why he took a
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liking to her. Kevin decides, because he has a little
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crush on her, to not only allow her to live
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in one of his properties, but to do it rent free.
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All she had to do in return. And I don't
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really know what you want to call her. Like, I
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don't know what you want to call her job title.
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But she was basically his security detail. He's like unofficial bailiff. Basically,
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she would go around and intimidate all of his tenants
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if they hadn't paid their rent. is basically what she did.
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And to help Joanne with this, Joanne recruits one of
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her friends who is known as Gary Stretch. Now he
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is huge, I'm talking huge. He had just been released
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from prison at this time. And just a little fun fact,
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if you will, he was the tallest prisoner in the UK.
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So he was huge. He was seven foot three. Joanne
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is in her absolute element right now. She's just gone
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back to being that school bully, hasn't she? Just going
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around bullying people, demanding money, just throwing around her power
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that she thinks she has. But obviously she did kind
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of have a bit of power, but oh God, people
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like that. So a few months after Joanne starts working,
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if you will, for Kevin. It's now March 2013 and
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she is 30 years old right now. She meets a
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man called Lukasz Slawodziewski who is 31 years old and
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was originally from Poland and he moved to the UK
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and he was just minding his own business. He was
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out shopping in Peterborough just on a normal day. He
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was very happy and out of the blue a woman
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approaches him and starts flirting with him. And you guessed it, Joanne.
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And I don't know how, but she manages to win
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Lukasz over as well. She leaves with his number. And
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just a few hours later, they're texting each other. They
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get a little bit flirty. They're sexting a bit, you know.
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And Lukasz completely falls for Joanne. There's even messages on
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his phone where he said to his friend that he
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had got an English girlfriend. Life was beautiful. It just,
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oh God, he just didn't have a clue. And obviously,
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why would he? But it just breaks my heart knowing
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what Joanne... is going to do. So on March 19th,
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the day after Joanne and Lukasz meet, Joanne starts texting
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him again, starts sending very sexual messages again. And she
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asks him to come over and she sends him the
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address of just this like empty house where people had
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just moved out. And because she's the security detail, she
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was going around inspecting. So she just texts him this
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empty house address and said, come over, meet me. And
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when Lukasz arrives, I think we can assume what he
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thought was going to happen. However, Joanne had completely different plans.
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They go into the kitchen and she just springs on him.
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She stabs him once. It was in the heart and
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it proved to be fatal. And it was a complete
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surprise attack. Lukasz didn't even see it coming. There was
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absolutely nothing, nothing he could have done. Joanne didn't exactly
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think this through. I don't think she thinks a lot
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of things through, to be honest. She didn't have a
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plan or anything. So she just had a dead body
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in this kitchen and she just didn't know what to do.
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So who does she call? Her equally scary friend, Gary Stretch.
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And together they came up with the amazing plan of
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putting the body in a wheelie bin outside of the property.
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And the murder just didn't seem to faze Joanne at all.
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was acting like she was proud of it, like she
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was bragging about it. There was this incident where a
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14-year-old girl was just passing outside of the property and
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Joanne decides, you know what, I'm going to show this
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14-year-old the dead body because I'm so proud of it.
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She shows the 14-year-old girl the body. Can you imagine
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the trauma of being 14, of being any age, and
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being shown a dead body? I don't know who that
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girl is, but I hope she's okay. Lukasi's body was
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in this wheelie bin for two days. Gary and Joanne
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figured they needed to move this body eventually, so they
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went out and bought a car. So they transferred Lucas's
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body from the wheelie bin into a ditch just on
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the outskirts of Peterborough. And Gary says, no one will
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ever find this body here. This is a good place. Well, Gary,
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I'll tell you now, it wasn't. So Joanne, unfortunately, now
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has the taste for murder. She wants to do more.
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She felt like she'd gotten away with it, because at
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that time she had. She thrived on that, which was very...
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very unfortunate for John Chapman, who was a 56 year
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old widow. He had previously worked for the Royal Navy,
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but he just kind of fell on hard times. And
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he lived with Joanne. He rented a room in the
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same house that she was living in. And 10 days
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after the murder of Lukasz, she decided that she wanted
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to kill John Chapman as well. I think they'd had
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a little altercation, like a little argument, nothing that crazy.
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But yeah, there was a little like argument, I think,
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the night before. And she was just like, you know what,
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I'm not having this. And yeah, decided to murder him
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in the early hours of the morning while he was sleeping.
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The autopsy showed that he was stabbed a total number
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of five times in the heart, which did prove fatal.
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And she stabbed him with so much force that that
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the knife actually went through his breastbone. So later on
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that morning, because it was the early hours in the
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morning that she killed John Chapman because he was sleeping.
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So later on, like that morning, she called Gary Stretch
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to help her out because he had helped her out
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in the last one. She phoned Gary up and channeled
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her inner Britney, said, oops, I did it again. I'm
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not lying here. And of course, because Gary was obsessed
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with her, he agreed. He was like, okay, I'll be
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right over. Now, just like John Chapman, there was another
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man renting a room in this house and his name
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was Leslie Layton. And he was another low level criminal
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and he was friends with both Gary and Joanne. I
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just want to point out, he was in the house
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at the time of this murder, like he was just
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asleep in the next room. Joanne really just didn't care
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about what she did and who found out. But when
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Leslie Layton woke up the next morning, Joanne and Gary
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showed him the body, showed him that Joanne had murdered
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their roommate. And instead of being horrified like any normal person,
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he decides to take out his phone and take a picture.
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of the body. I literally have no words for the
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kind of person that does that. Who does that? Literally,
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who does that? He did delete the photo because he
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thought that, oh, I'll delete it. No one will be
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able to see it. And police were able to recover
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that photo in the forensic search on his phone later on.
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So Leslie is asked by Joanne and Gary to help
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out moving the body. And I don't know if Leslie
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was obsessed with Joanne, but I feel like I'm just
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going to assume that he was because it does seem
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like every single man that Joanne comes in contact with
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becomes obsessed with her. So I'm just going to assume
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that Leslie is also obsessed with Joanne. So of course
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he agrees. However, all three of them kind of figure
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out that there's another problem that they need to deal with.
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And that is Kevin Lee, who is the landlord. They're
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worried that Kevin will find out, which he probably will,
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he will find out that two people have been murdered
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on his properties. So all three of them decide that
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they need to do something about that. So Kevin was
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more than just a landlord to Joanne. I think we've
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probably all figured that out anyway. He wasn't just her landlord.
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He was also her lover. They were having an affair
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for quite a while. And Joanne used this to her
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advantage to lure Kevin over. Not that it matters how
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she lured him over. The way she did it, I
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just found extremely disturbing. She said to him that she
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wants to rape him in a dress. I don't even know.
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And Kevin found this very arousing. But when Kevin arrives,
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Joanne convinces him to put on one of her black dresses.
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And Kevin obviously thinks that something else is going to happen.
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But As we know, Joanne had other plans for Kevin,
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00:16:42.490 --> 00:16:45.190
and this is when she brutally murdered Kevin Lee. The
315
00:16:45.289 --> 00:16:47.750
autopsy showed that he was the first victim to put
316
00:16:47.820 --> 00:16:50.879
up a fight because there were self-defense wounds on his hands.
317
00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:53.419
And she had stabbed him a total of five times
318
00:16:53.580 --> 00:16:56.500
in the chest, which did prove to be fatal. So
319
00:16:56.539 --> 00:16:59.879
now Joanne, Gary and Leslie, I'm sorry if this story
320
00:16:59.919 --> 00:17:03.299
is confusing, there are so many names that get thrown
321
00:17:03.399 --> 00:17:07.009
into this story. So Joanne, Gary, and Leslie now need
322
00:17:07.029 --> 00:17:11.029
to move the body of John Chapman and Kevin Lee. Yes,
323
00:17:11.509 --> 00:17:14.490
this all happened on the same day. John Chapman's body
324
00:17:14.529 --> 00:17:17.630
was still in the property when Kevin came over. Obviously,
325
00:17:17.650 --> 00:17:21.009
he didn't know that. But wow, Joanne has been busy.
326
00:17:21.069 --> 00:17:23.230
So the three of them decide to hide John Chapman's
327
00:17:23.269 --> 00:17:26.839
body in the same ditch that they placed Lukasz's body.
328
00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:29.759
But they decided to put Kevin Lee in a different ditch.
329
00:17:29.819 --> 00:17:32.339
They decided to put him in a ditch 10 miles away.
330
00:17:33.160 --> 00:17:35.099
I don't know why a different ditch. I don't know,
331
00:17:35.259 --> 00:17:36.640
but they did. And that is why if you haven't
332
00:17:36.660 --> 00:17:38.859
figured it out yet, why this case is also known
333
00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:41.740
as the Peterborough ditch murders. They also needed to destroy
334
00:17:41.779 --> 00:17:44.289
Kevin's car because he arrived in his car to the
335
00:17:44.309 --> 00:17:46.410
house and they didn't want to just leave his car
336
00:17:46.430 --> 00:17:48.750
outside the property because that would raise alarm. So they
337
00:17:48.789 --> 00:17:51.250
took his car to a nearby farm and decided to
338
00:17:51.289 --> 00:17:54.950
burn it because that's not inconspicuous. I don't know why
339
00:17:55.029 --> 00:17:56.910
they decided to burn out the car. I mean, I
340
00:17:56.930 --> 00:17:58.559
understand why they decided to burn out the car. I
341
00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:01.099
just don't understand why they took it to a nearby
342
00:18:01.160 --> 00:18:03.220
farm as if it wasn't gonna get found. And the
343
00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:06.049
police did find the car the very next day. It
344
00:18:06.210 --> 00:18:09.970
was actually Kevin Lee's wife that alerted the police first
345
00:18:10.089 --> 00:18:12.309
and let them know that her husband had gone missing.
346
00:18:12.349 --> 00:18:13.970
So then after they found the car, they found the
347
00:18:13.990 --> 00:18:17.150
car first, It was just a random person that was
348
00:18:17.190 --> 00:18:19.009
just walking. I think they were walking the dog, not
349
00:18:19.069 --> 00:18:20.849
quite sure, but they were just walking and they came
350
00:18:20.910 --> 00:18:23.750
across Kevin's body in this ditch later on the same
351
00:18:23.809 --> 00:18:26.609
day that the car was found. Kevin's body wasn't hidden
352
00:18:26.849 --> 00:18:28.390
very well at all. Like even though it was in
353
00:18:28.430 --> 00:18:30.569
this ditch, it was just out in the open. Anyone
354
00:18:30.589 --> 00:18:32.210
could have stumbled across it. So, you know, I said,
355
00:18:32.250 --> 00:18:33.710
I don't know why they took the car to a
356
00:18:33.730 --> 00:18:35.609
nearby farm. Like obviously it was going to get found.
357
00:18:35.630 --> 00:18:38.690
I don't think they cared. And Kevin's body was left
358
00:18:39.019 --> 00:18:43.670
in a... horrible, degrading, humiliating way. The dress had been
359
00:18:43.730 --> 00:18:46.970
pulled up to expose him from the waist down and
360
00:18:47.009 --> 00:18:49.930
it was very clear that the body had been sexually
361
00:18:50.009 --> 00:18:54.099
assaulted with an object after death. That takes a sick individual,
362
00:18:54.339 --> 00:18:57.460
it really does. The police naturally go to Kevin's phone
363
00:18:57.519 --> 00:18:59.940
to look for clues and they see the texts from
364
00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:03.259
Joanne on Kevin's phone. So she immediately becomes a person
365
00:19:03.339 --> 00:19:06.680
of interest. They go to the property, Joanne's property that
366
00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:11.609
she lived, and they find A blood soaked mattress Which
367
00:19:11.650 --> 00:19:15.829
they immediately think This has got to be Kevin's blood
368
00:19:15.890 --> 00:19:18.809
But no Found out after testing the mattress That that
369
00:19:18.849 --> 00:19:23.890
blood belonged to John Chapman Who, coincidentally, the police also
370
00:19:23.910 --> 00:19:26.650
figured out Oh, he's missing as well So now police
371
00:19:26.690 --> 00:19:30.089
think that Joanne could have possibly murdered two people They
372
00:19:30.130 --> 00:19:33.670
put out descriptions of them to police nationwide And they're
373
00:19:33.690 --> 00:19:37.549
pretty distinctive in their appearance Joanne has a very distinctive
374
00:19:37.630 --> 00:19:41.170
star tattoo on her face And Gary's stretch Is obviously
375
00:19:41.930 --> 00:19:44.279
Very very tall And it's not too long After they
376
00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:47.180
release Their images That a police officer recognizes both of
377
00:19:47.240 --> 00:19:49.660
them from a local petrol station that he was attending
378
00:19:49.720 --> 00:19:53.309
because this petrol station had just been robbed. Two guesses
379
00:19:53.390 --> 00:19:55.490
as to who did that robbery. The police now have
380
00:19:55.529 --> 00:19:58.450
the registration of the car that Gary and Joanne are
381
00:19:58.470 --> 00:20:00.670
traveling in. And they were able to track the car
382
00:20:00.789 --> 00:20:04.519
with road cameras, which is pretty extensive in the UK.
383
00:20:04.579 --> 00:20:07.400
They find that they were recently traveling down a motorway
384
00:20:07.539 --> 00:20:10.019
and that they stopped at a service station because they
385
00:20:10.039 --> 00:20:13.640
had been caught on CCTV. And they look so relaxed.
386
00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:15.220
So they are on the run, even though I don't
387
00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:17.859
really think they care. They're not taking this seriously at all.
388
00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:20.380
I mean, they stop at a friend's flat on the
389
00:20:20.440 --> 00:20:28.430
way and take some very weird pictures. I'm just gonna
390
00:20:28.509 --> 00:20:32.079
say that. Some very weird pictures and also some scary
391
00:20:32.170 --> 00:20:35.099
ones as well. They decide that they're gonna need some money.
392
00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:36.420
If they're gonna be on the run they're gonna need
393
00:20:36.440 --> 00:20:38.819
some money and Joanne decides that she wants to be
394
00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:41.359
Bonnie and Clyde. They break into some houses, they steal
395
00:20:41.539 --> 00:20:45.420
items and then they go and visit Gary's friend Mark
396
00:20:45.579 --> 00:20:48.660
Lloyd because they need to turn these stolen items into
397
00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:52.430
cash quick and Mark Lloyd according to Gary, can help
398
00:20:52.450 --> 00:20:56.369
with this. And Mark wasn't keen on helping them. Like,
399
00:20:56.450 --> 00:20:58.509
he didn't want to help them at all. And in
400
00:20:58.569 --> 00:21:01.430
true Joanne fashion, she thrans him. She pulls out her
401
00:21:01.490 --> 00:21:04.079
knife and says, I've just killed three people. You're going
402
00:21:04.099 --> 00:21:06.460
to help us. And now, scared for his life, Mark
403
00:21:06.980 --> 00:21:09.160
agrees to help them. So Mark gets in the car.
404
00:21:09.559 --> 00:21:12.500
They drive off and Mark has since reported that he
405
00:21:12.619 --> 00:21:17.859
could not believe how just relaxed Joanne and Gary, but
406
00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:21.200
particularly Joanne, he could not get over how relaxed and
407
00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:23.599
calm she was. It's like she just wanted to have fun.
408
00:21:23.700 --> 00:21:25.019
It's like she was on a road trip, like she
409
00:21:25.059 --> 00:21:27.400
was taking selfies. And there's a little incident where they
410
00:21:27.420 --> 00:21:30.589
stop off at a services and there's footage of them
411
00:21:30.869 --> 00:21:33.670
stopping to buy cigarettes. And you can see Joanne and
412
00:21:33.710 --> 00:21:37.369
Mark on the CCTV footage. And from the CCTV footage,
413
00:21:37.470 --> 00:21:39.289
it just kind of looks like i don't know like
414
00:21:39.650 --> 00:21:43.150
normal people buying things from a shop um however when
415
00:21:43.190 --> 00:21:45.309
you actually know what was going on it's a lot
416
00:21:45.329 --> 00:21:47.700
more sinister than what it looks joanne had a knife
417
00:21:47.779 --> 00:21:50.380
in her pocket and was threatening mark she was whispering
418
00:21:50.420 --> 00:21:52.480
in his ear and then she just turns around and
419
00:21:52.519 --> 00:21:54.900
starts flirting with the cashier she knows how to flip
420
00:21:54.940 --> 00:21:56.779
on that charm doesn't she joanne it's just so very
421
00:21:56.859 --> 00:21:59.940
weird joanne flirts with everyone when they get back in
422
00:21:59.960 --> 00:22:02.769
the car after buying the cigarettes joanne turns to gary
423
00:22:02.849 --> 00:22:06.099
and says i want to murder someone Find me someone
424
00:22:06.460 --> 00:22:09.200
with a dog. Just so blasé about the whole situation,
425
00:22:09.240 --> 00:22:11.980
just like a throwaway comment. So of course Gary complies
426
00:22:12.119 --> 00:22:14.900
because he does everything that Joanne says. And he finds
427
00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:18.099
a dog walker just on the side of the street
428
00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:20.359
and he's like, will that one do? And Joanne's like, yeah,
429
00:22:20.420 --> 00:22:22.220
that one will do. I want that one. He pulls
430
00:22:22.319 --> 00:22:27.619
over and Joanne gets out and attacks 63-year-old Robin. She
431
00:22:27.660 --> 00:22:31.779
attacks him from behind, stabbing him twice in the shoulder. Now,
432
00:22:31.960 --> 00:22:35.720
Robin did survive this attack, thankfully. And he has said
433
00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:38.420
that he didn't realize he was being stabbed at the time.
434
00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:40.769
He just felt like someone was punching him really hard.
435
00:22:40.809 --> 00:22:43.049
Like at first, he didn't realize that he was being attacked.
436
00:22:43.230 --> 00:22:46.029
And he turned around, saw Joanne, and he fought back.
437
00:22:46.069 --> 00:22:48.529
He kicked out at her. And yeah, he just got away.
438
00:22:48.609 --> 00:22:51.339
He managed to get away. And luckily for Robin, Joanne
439
00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:53.859
didn't pursue him because Gary had pulled up in the
440
00:22:53.900 --> 00:22:55.980
car and just said, Joanne, get in the car. And
441
00:22:56.000 --> 00:22:57.640
I don't know what happened to the dog, because obviously
442
00:22:57.680 --> 00:22:59.460
he was walking her dog. I don't know what happened
443
00:22:59.480 --> 00:23:01.059
to the dog. I know that's what you're all thinking.
444
00:23:01.079 --> 00:23:03.089
I couldn't find out, but the fact that I couldn't
445
00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:05.450
find out anything that happened to the dog, I am
446
00:23:05.490 --> 00:23:07.210
going to say that the dog was okay. I feel
447
00:23:07.250 --> 00:23:09.690
like the dog just ran off with its owner when
448
00:23:09.730 --> 00:23:11.910
the owner ran off. And amazingly, Robin is able to
449
00:23:11.990 --> 00:23:15.099
stagger home and call an ambulance for himself. And if
450
00:23:15.160 --> 00:23:18.160
the paramedics didn't act quick enough, he would have died
451
00:23:18.220 --> 00:23:21.680
from his injuries, because blood had started to pool internally.
452
00:23:21.819 --> 00:23:24.660
Jumping back to the car now, like Joanne has just
453
00:23:24.700 --> 00:23:27.000
got back into the car with Gary. She gets back
454
00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:28.980
into the car with Gary, kisses him on the cheek
455
00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:32.829
and says thank you. Thank you. She also says she
456
00:23:32.869 --> 00:23:34.809
wants to do more. Mark is just sat in the
457
00:23:34.849 --> 00:23:37.930
back of this car. He can't believe what is going
458
00:23:38.069 --> 00:23:40.990
on and you know what Mark? Neither can I. Wow.
459
00:23:41.190 --> 00:23:44.650
So they drive off and Joanne is very clear of
460
00:23:44.730 --> 00:23:46.509
who she wants to murder. She says that she does
461
00:23:46.549 --> 00:23:50.950
not want to kill any women, especially with children. She
462
00:23:50.990 --> 00:23:52.859
wants to kill a man and she wants to kill
463
00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:54.940
a man with a dog. I don't know what the
464
00:23:54.980 --> 00:23:58.660
situation is with the dog, I don't know, but that's
465
00:23:58.720 --> 00:24:01.000
clearly her thing. And I feel like the fact that
466
00:24:01.059 --> 00:24:07.049
she's so adamant about killing a man means something. That's
467
00:24:07.089 --> 00:24:09.470
just my opinion. After driving around for nine minutes looking
468
00:24:09.490 --> 00:24:12.430
for someone with a dog, they do come across someone
469
00:24:12.470 --> 00:24:16.029
called John Rogers and Joanne jumps out of the car
470
00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:19.980
and attacks him. And this attack is way more brutal.
471
00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:22.740
She starts stabbing him in the back and then moves
472
00:24:22.759 --> 00:24:25.480
to start stabbing him in his front. She stabbed him
473
00:24:25.529 --> 00:24:30.410
a total of 30 times. These crimes These attacks are escalating.
474
00:24:30.529 --> 00:24:32.519
It's like she's constantly trying to chase that high. She
475
00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:34.779
then took the dog. Yeah, she took the dog in
476
00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:36.619
this one. And I know what you're all thinking, but
477
00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:39.799
the dog was okay in this situation. I did find
478
00:24:39.880 --> 00:24:41.960
out what happened to the dog. The dog was completely fine.
479
00:24:42.029 --> 00:24:44.029
She did not harm that dog at all. And John
480
00:24:44.069 --> 00:24:46.230
managed to crawl a hundred yards where he passed a
481
00:24:46.329 --> 00:24:49.730
woman who was able to call an ambulance. And miraculously, John...
482
00:24:49.990 --> 00:24:52.700
also survived this attack, and I don't know how. It
483
00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:55.500
was an absolute miracle that he survived. He suffered deep
484
00:24:55.539 --> 00:24:59.059
wounds to his chest, back, and abdominal. He suffered nine
485
00:24:59.259 --> 00:25:02.519
fractured ribs. Both of his lungs had collapsed. His bowel
486
00:25:02.559 --> 00:25:05.789
was completely torn open and exposed. I don't know how
487
00:25:05.849 --> 00:25:09.289
he managed to crawl one yard, let alone a hundred yards,
488
00:25:09.369 --> 00:25:11.529
and like I said, it was by some miracle that
489
00:25:11.549 --> 00:25:14.359
he did survive this attack, and he was reunited with
490
00:25:14.390 --> 00:25:17.809
his dog when the police finally catch up to Joanne,
491
00:25:17.910 --> 00:25:20.190
which is gonna happen now. So just revisiting what I
492
00:25:20.250 --> 00:25:22.630
said about the men with dogs, like why was she
493
00:25:22.650 --> 00:25:25.119
so adamant about killing men? I just feel like this,
494
00:25:25.140 --> 00:25:27.900
I don't wanna say proves because it doesn't prove anything,
495
00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:31.119
but I just feel like it does point towards some
496
00:25:31.160 --> 00:25:34.769
sort of abuse happening when she was teenager, just before
497
00:25:34.829 --> 00:25:37.630
her sudden behavioural change when she was a young teenager.
498
00:25:37.690 --> 00:25:39.430
I just think there's been a few things. The fact
499
00:25:39.450 --> 00:25:42.009
that she's so adamant about killing men, the fact that
500
00:25:42.029 --> 00:25:44.450
she likes to have power and control over men, the
501
00:25:44.470 --> 00:25:45.990
fact that she ran away with older men when she
502
00:25:46.039 --> 00:25:47.900
was younger, and I just think as well the fact
503
00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:51.059
that she was so adamant about not killing women, especially
504
00:25:51.079 --> 00:25:53.380
with children. I think if we just revisit how she
505
00:25:53.420 --> 00:25:56.420
was when she was pregnant, she did everything right when
506
00:25:56.460 --> 00:25:58.819
she was pregnant. She stopped drinking, she stopped taking drugs,
507
00:25:59.339 --> 00:26:02.769
She completely changed her behavior to protect her child. And
508
00:26:03.220 --> 00:26:05.430
this is just my opinion. This is just my analysis.
509
00:26:05.549 --> 00:26:08.470
But it seems like she wants to protect children in
510
00:26:08.490 --> 00:26:11.430
a strange way because maybe she didn't feel protected when
511
00:26:11.509 --> 00:26:13.890
she was a child. I don't know. I'm no expert.
512
00:26:14.069 --> 00:26:16.809
I do have a degree in criminology, but that definitely
513
00:26:16.849 --> 00:26:18.650
doesn't make me an expert. And all of this is
514
00:26:18.690 --> 00:26:21.069
just my opinion. And none of that has been proven.
515
00:26:21.130 --> 00:26:23.799
But I just thought it was interesting. So after the
516
00:26:23.980 --> 00:26:28.079
attacks on Robin and John, Joanne still wants more. She
517
00:26:28.220 --> 00:26:32.380
still wants to kill more people. However, thankfully, at this point,
518
00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:34.960
the police have managed to catch up with her, surround
519
00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:37.720
the car, and they do arrest her. Again, once Joanne
520
00:26:37.940 --> 00:26:41.240
is arrested, she starts bloody flirting with everyone again. I
521
00:26:41.369 --> 00:26:44.279
don't know what is with Joanne. And when she's at
522
00:26:44.299 --> 00:26:47.099
the police station, she's laughing, she's joking around with the
523
00:26:47.140 --> 00:26:52.829
police officers. This is amazing. It looks good. Thanks. It's
524
00:26:52.930 --> 00:27:01.660
so good. Really sexy. There are just so many examples
525
00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:06.259
throughout this whole story that she's been able to charm
526
00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:27.769
men left, right and centre And I don't get it!
527
00:27:27.950 --> 00:27:31.029
So during the investigation, the interviews and all stuff like that,
528
00:27:31.309 --> 00:27:35.150
the police are expecting Joanne to spill her guts, basically,
529
00:27:35.190 --> 00:27:38.950
because from her personality, she likes to brag about her crimes.
530
00:27:38.970 --> 00:27:42.259
She's very proud of them. She shouts them from the rooftop. However,
531
00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:45.980
she says absolutely nothing, changes up her behavior once again,
532
00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:48.799
becomes a mute. However, this doesn't matter. The police have
533
00:27:48.980 --> 00:27:51.099
so much evidence against her and they have found the
534
00:27:51.140 --> 00:27:54.410
other two bodies. in Peterborough, the bodies of John Chapman
535
00:27:54.609 --> 00:27:59.230
and Lukasz Slabajewski. With the three murders, the two stabbings, yeah,
536
00:27:59.250 --> 00:28:01.349
they have enough evidence. They don't really need her to talk,
537
00:28:01.410 --> 00:28:03.670
but they were just expecting her to. Mark Lloyd, do
538
00:28:03.690 --> 00:28:05.210
you remember Mark? The one that was riding in the
539
00:28:05.250 --> 00:28:08.259
back of the car against his will? He cooperated fully
540
00:28:08.299 --> 00:28:10.339
with the police and he was not charged with anything
541
00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:13.240
because the police did believe that he was completely innocent
542
00:28:13.259 --> 00:28:15.940
and was in that car against his will. However, Joanne
543
00:28:15.980 --> 00:28:19.119
was found guilty of all offences and was sentenced to
544
00:28:19.339 --> 00:28:22.339
a complete death life sentence. And like I said in
545
00:28:22.359 --> 00:28:24.640
the beginning of the video, she is only one of
546
00:28:24.940 --> 00:28:28.180
three women in the UK to have received that sentence.
547
00:28:28.380 --> 00:28:31.720
And the other two women, Myra Hindley and Rose West.
548
00:28:31.940 --> 00:28:36.019
Gary Stretch and Leslie Layton were also prosecuted. Gary Stretch
549
00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:39.819
was sentenced to life with a minimum of 19 years
550
00:28:39.880 --> 00:28:44.309
before parole. And Leslie Layton was sentenced to 14 years.
551
00:28:44.509 --> 00:28:47.109
Now there was actually a debate on whether Joanne is
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00:28:47.170 --> 00:28:50.230
classed as a serial killer or a spree killer. because
553
00:28:50.250 --> 00:28:54.009
she technically doesn't really fit into either category, because a
554
00:28:54.049 --> 00:28:56.960
serial killer is defined as someone who kills at least
555
00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:00.400
three people, which obviously Joanne did. However, these murders normally
556
00:29:00.839 --> 00:29:03.809
take place over a period of at least a month,
557
00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:09.700
and there is normally significant downtime in between each murders. Now,
558
00:29:09.720 --> 00:29:13.369
Joanne doesn't fit this because from the first murder of
559
00:29:13.410 --> 00:29:16.130
Lukasz and the day that she was arrested was 10
560
00:29:16.130 --> 00:29:19.130
days However, a spree killer normally kills in a shorter
561
00:29:19.150 --> 00:29:22.109
period of 10 days So Joanne kind of fits in
562
00:29:22.130 --> 00:29:23.549
the middle So there is a bit of a debate
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00:29:23.589 --> 00:29:25.769
whether she's classed as a serial killer or as a
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00:29:25.789 --> 00:29:29.910
spree killer So, yeah, she's a serial spree killer When
565
00:29:29.990 --> 00:29:34.289
Joanne was in prison, she was unsurprisingly diagnosed as being
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00:29:34.309 --> 00:29:37.730
a psychopath. And she did tell psychiatrists that she had
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00:29:37.789 --> 00:29:40.660
been sexually abused when she was a child. And just
568
00:29:40.700 --> 00:29:43.900
from what has happened in this case, I do feel
569
00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:47.079
like that makes a lot of sense. And I'm not
570
00:29:47.140 --> 00:29:50.279
trying to make Joanne Dennehy a victim here at all.
571
00:29:50.400 --> 00:29:52.319
I'm really not. But I think it just kind of
572
00:29:52.380 --> 00:29:54.880
helps make certain things make a little bit more sense.
573
00:29:54.940 --> 00:29:57.710
And I think it just helps us understand Joanne Dennehy's
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00:29:57.769 --> 00:30:00.150
mind a little bit more. So you probably think, This
575
00:30:00.170 --> 00:30:04.109
story ends there. But this is Joanne Dennehy, the most
576
00:30:04.269 --> 00:30:08.579
dangerous woman in the UK. There are still more crazy
577
00:30:08.630 --> 00:30:11.220
things that happened when she went to prison. She first
578
00:30:11.240 --> 00:30:14.920
got caught planning an escape from prison. She had planned
579
00:30:14.980 --> 00:30:19.500
to kill the guard, cut off the guard's finger, and
580
00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:24.240
then use that finger to unlock the biometric lock. Yeah,
581
00:30:24.259 --> 00:30:31.579
it sounds completely far-fetched. Wow. But... scarily believable in the
582
00:30:31.619 --> 00:30:34.259
case of Johan Dennehy. She then, as we know, decided
583
00:30:34.299 --> 00:30:36.579
to pick a fight with Rose West. I don't really
584
00:30:36.819 --> 00:30:38.660
know why she picked a fight with Rose West, but
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00:30:38.680 --> 00:30:41.180
I think she had an issue with Rose West because
586
00:30:41.220 --> 00:30:43.789
Johan Dennehy wanted to be the top dog in the
587
00:30:43.960 --> 00:30:47.609
prison system. I don't know. Because Myra Hindley had died
588
00:30:47.690 --> 00:30:50.819
back in 2002, so at this point when Joanne was
589
00:30:50.900 --> 00:30:54.059
in prison, Rose West was the only other contender for
590
00:30:54.119 --> 00:30:59.150
top dog, if you will. Back in 2019, Joanne was
591
00:30:59.269 --> 00:31:02.789
transferred to the same high security prison that Rose West
592
00:31:02.829 --> 00:31:05.829
was in. Rose West is currently 65 at this point.
593
00:31:05.930 --> 00:31:07.730
And like I said, I think Joanne wanted to be
594
00:31:07.789 --> 00:31:10.210
top dog. I think she saw this as her opportunity
595
00:31:10.250 --> 00:31:13.069
to prove that she was top dog because from her
596
00:31:13.109 --> 00:31:15.509
past behavior, from her characteristics, we know that she likes
597
00:31:15.529 --> 00:31:17.319
to be in charge. She likes to be in control.
598
00:31:17.339 --> 00:31:19.460
She likes to throw around her power and she threatened
599
00:31:19.480 --> 00:31:21.880
to kill Rose West. And the prison took the threat
600
00:31:21.940 --> 00:31:25.319
on Rose West's life so seriously. I mean, to be honest,
601
00:31:25.380 --> 00:31:27.839
I don't blame them if this is Joanne Dennehy that
602
00:31:27.859 --> 00:31:30.420
we're talking about. They took the threat so seriously that
603
00:31:30.440 --> 00:31:35.990
they moved Rose from this prison for Rose West's own safety.
604
00:31:36.130 --> 00:31:39.569
Words I thought would never come out of my mouth.
605
00:31:39.869 --> 00:31:43.509
And apparently Rose West was devastated about this because she'd
606
00:31:43.549 --> 00:31:46.839
been at this prison for 10 years at this point.
607
00:31:47.619 --> 00:31:50.480
And she was so devastated. She was crying that she
608
00:31:50.519 --> 00:31:52.920
had to leave this prison. And the reason why she
609
00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:55.950
was so devastated about leaving this prison is because she
610
00:31:56.009 --> 00:32:00.390
enjoyed baking cakes. And the new prison that she was
611
00:32:00.410 --> 00:32:04.109
being transferred to didn't have the facilities or something for
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00:32:04.150 --> 00:32:09.910
her to bake cakes. Wow. Now that right there is
613
00:32:09.950 --> 00:32:13.759
a sad story. Paul Rose West. So yeah, that was
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00:32:13.799 --> 00:32:17.420
the case of Joanne Dennehy, the UK's most dangerous woman.
615
00:32:17.589 --> 00:32:21.490
And I think from that story, we can all completely
616
00:32:21.569 --> 00:32:26.690
understand why she's been given that title. Congratulations, Joanne Dennehy.
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00:32:26.799 --> 00:32:30.079
You have proven yourself to be the top dog. Well done.
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00:32:33.569 --> 00:32:35.630
And that brings us to the end of this episode.
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00:32:35.690 --> 00:32:38.430
Thank you so much everyone for listening today. Subscribe or
620
00:32:38.470 --> 00:32:40.349
follow to make sure you never miss an episode of
621
00:32:40.369 --> 00:32:42.880
The Criminal Makeup. And if you enjoy the show, it
622
00:32:42.900 --> 00:32:44.720
would really mean a lot if you could leave a
623
00:32:44.759 --> 00:32:47.579
five-star review. In the meantime, if you've been affected by
624
00:32:47.779 --> 00:32:49.940
any of the themes in this episode, please take the
625
00:32:49.980 --> 00:32:52.140
time to look at the description for this episode for
626
00:32:52.180 --> 00:32:55.529
some helpful resources. Special thanks to my producers at Audioboom
627
00:32:55.549 --> 00:32:57.460
Studios and I'll see you all in the next one.
