Finding Ikigai: Farhaz Farouk's Journey of Self-Discovery and Coaching

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Welcome to the Creative Buddhist Podcast.
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My name is Sherman.
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And today I have a very interesting and unique story of a gentleman who has been away from Sri Lanka, brought back and left again, and then finally brought back over here to at a much later age to find curiosity and follow the curiosity and and and help Sri Lankan organizations and worldwide to find their icky guy and see how they can help organizations.
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So, Barhas, thank you so much for being on the podcast.
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It's been a pleasure.
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Thank you.
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Let's dive immediately into it.
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What do you do and how do you explain to somebody who has no idea about your field?
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First off, thanks for having me.
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The easiest, simplest way I could perhaps introduce myself to somebody who doesn't know me is hey, I let you discover yourself.
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In more ways than one.
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And that would come from where I have been, where I currently am, and where I hope to get to.
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And that's how I would hopefully help you also go through a similar journey of self-discovery.
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So that's the long and short of it, really, Sharon.
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Still don't know what you do.
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I'll get to it.
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So from my background, I trained as an accountant.
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Okay.
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I got qualified as a chartered accountant very long back.
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And then I did the other thing as well, SEMA.
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Those days it was this thing to be a double accountant.
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So I got both those qualifications under the belt.
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Went into banking.
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Typical Sri Lankan professional career building story.
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And from Sri Lanka, I got an opportunity to go abroad once again into banking.
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So I dived deep into it.
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And I've been in banking for perhaps 15 years of my career.
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And then I got headhuntered into the oil and gas holding company where I used to live as CFO.
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And that opened a totally different industry while still using my existing skills.
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While going through that journey of serving others, I wanted to also dive back into a little bit of academic passion that I had.
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I wanted to always get a master's.
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So I started that off.
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And this was really a starting point of so many different things.
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In order to complete the master's, I actually had to quit working because it got so strenuous.
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I took time off.
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I quit work and I did it.
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And then I started thinking to myself, what do I do with this?
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Do I get back into work or do I do something else?
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And that's when everything turned around.
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We just chucked everything we had abroad, came back to Sri Lanka, me and my wife.
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And currently what I do is I do people development.
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So I retrained myself as a coach.
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I retrained myself as a corporate trainer.
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But I do have a lot of experience and a lot of exposure to various industries.
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So I also do consulting.
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So the long and short, I say I'm a coach trainer consultant.
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Wow.
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But who's got all of that exposure and experience behind him?
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Working in multiple industries, multiple countries, and also I'm multilingual.
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So bring all of that together.
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So I do coaching, training, consulting.
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How old were you when you decided to come back?
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Right.
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Now we, me and my wife and I say we had a plan when we hit the Big Five Zero, we are going to come back to Sri Lanka.
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And we had financial goals, all of that, all laid up.
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Typical story.
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We achieved those financial goals a bit earlier than the Big Five Zero.
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And I quit job, quit working at 47.
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I took one year to complete my MBA.
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It was a good project.
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It was a two-year program, but because of work, I was struggling with it.
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And then so I took time off, finished the MBA.
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So got back to Sri Lanka when I was 48, as soon as I finished the MBA.
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When we got back, COVID was around, so things weren't really the best conducive situation to start something new.
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But in a way, it also helped with soul searching to see what we really want to do.
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Do I get back to work?
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Do I get back to profession?
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Do I get back?
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And I thought, no, you know what?
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I'm just going to do what I like.
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And what I like is this.
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I like talking to people.
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I like experience sharing, knowledge sharing, skill sharing with people.
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And then one thing led to another.
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And I said, okay, I'm retraining myself as a coach, as a trainer.
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And that's how it happened.
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So 48 was the time I got back.
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Was it how was that experience?
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Let me.
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It was tough.
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It was challenging.
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There's also another side to me which I should perhaps say I grew up outside Sri Lanka as well.
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Okay.
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From age of three until 15, I was in Saudi Arabia.
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And then another 20 years of my professional career life, I was in outside Sri Lanka.
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So two-thirds of my life I had actually spent outside.
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So I was like a foreigner coming into a country and trying to figure their way around.
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And it's strange.
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I do have a Sri Lankan passport.
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I'm out and out, Sri Lankan for anything and everything that matters.
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But I was, for all intents and purposes, quite new to the place.
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And I had a time trying to figure my way out, getting back to routine, trying to find things to do, trying to find my little networks and friends and colleagues and whatever to sort things out.
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It was a bit of an effort.
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COVID didn't help, but as I said, it did have its plus side because it did give a little bit of time for me to sit back and think through how we're going to get through it.
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So, foreigner coming into a country, that was the experience.
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Nature playing its part and giving me time to think through it.
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Fast forward a few years, it's been about what, five years since COVID hit us.
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I think I am doing reasonably okay under the circumstances.
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Very well settled.
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Got my friends' network back going, new networks back going.
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Got a set of clients working, good work in relationships.
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Plus, I do a lot of things that I had always wanted to do, but I never got the time.
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You know what I mean?
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Yeah.
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And I think I'm probably living the best time of my life now, currently.
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That's amazing to hear.
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That's fantastic.
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Yeah.
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So farhaz, let's go to your childhood a little bit.
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What was childhood like and how yeah, what was little for like?
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Yeah.
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Third year we moved to Saudi Arabia.
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My dad was working there.
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And at that time, it was Saudi Arabia at its infancy, I would say.
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You know, things weren't really developed.
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To start with, schooling was the first challenge.
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We didn't have a Sri Lankan school.
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So my parents thought, you know what, let's get these fellows into a culture as close to Sri Lankan as possible.
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So they put us into an Indian school.
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At that time, I think there were just four Sri Lankan students in this entire Indian school.
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Myself, my sister, and two other kids.
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Later on, a few other Sri Lankans did join.
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But it turned out to be actually a blessing in disguise, Sharan.
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I it was an English media school, of course, but because it was an Indian school, Hindi was compulsory.
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Reading, writing, speaking.
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And because it was Saudi Arabia, they had a rule, Arabic is also compulsory.
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Right.
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And so, in a weird way, from a very young age, I had, of course, our English as the main language, and I was speaking Tamil at home.
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But I was forced to learn an Eastern Asian language, which is Hindi, and a West Asian language, which was Arabic, which come from two different routes.
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Right.
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In a way, I would say I think that was a good way to get my mind open to two different cultures, two different ways of living, two different because learning a language is just not learning to talk to each other.
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It's got a lot of history, a lot of culture behind it.
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And exposure to one culture, exposure to.
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And from a young age, this just came into place.
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And now what has happened to me is I can gel well with almost anybody I meet from day one.
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And that's probably because internally I'm wired to be accepting of different cultures, different types of people, different thinking, and so on.
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So that advantage came into play.
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Again, getting back to childhood.
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So Indian school, most of my childhood friends are Indians, which in and of itself, you may think, is that good?
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No, it is a really good thing because all those kids did really well.
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So I got friends now from, of course, lots of them are in India, but all the way from Japan to the US, I got friends all over the globe in different fields, different industries, different professions, settled down.
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So wherever I go, I know I can find somebody who I know.
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That's huge.
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And that's that was it.
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Growing up in Saudi Arabia itself was a different experience.
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I mean, of course, different to Sri Lanka.
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A bit rigid.
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We didn't really have too many entertainment options, but whatever we had, we made maximum use of.
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And it was football.
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Football.
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Yeah.
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Wherever we it is a bit like cricket being played in Sri Lanka.
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In Saudi Arabia, wherever there's a bit of a space, everybody plays football.
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And I got heavily into football as a sport.
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In school, I turned out to be one of the best goalkeepers the school produced, and so on.
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That's another story.
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Coming back to Sri Lanka, football is popular, but not as popular as cricket or rugby.
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And I never really understood cricket.
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So I it was like a natural flow into the sport of rugby.
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And there were things coming back to Sri Lanka, I actually converted from a football player to a rugby player.
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And that's a passion I'm continuing till date.
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Wow.
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Very cool.
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So that's a bit of growing up in Saudi Arabia, of course.
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The environment there was very rigid.
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So parents were also a bit rigid.
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And that probably played a part in me not exploring myself as much as I would have liked when I was a kid.
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Coming back to Sri Lanka, that opened up a bit, but I was still having to work within a certain framework.
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My dad was still working in the Middle East, my mom was over here, so she was playing the role of both parents, so she put extra rules.
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But eventually things started loosening up, of course, when I started studying for chartered accounting and so on.
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Moving to Bahrain helped a lot.
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Because I had to be, it was just me and my wife, there's nobody else.
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And so we had to really open up, we had to really start thinking out of the box and so on.
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And that really helped my thinking process, which probably led to me taking that very critical decision of quitting work at a particular time in life where people would say, Hey, that's you know, that's a very critical time in your life.
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But took that decision, moved out, and eventually ended up where I am.
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So I guess moving to Bahrain really helped unleash all of those things that I had always wanted to do.
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And was there any particular reason that happened in Bahrain?
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Or not really.
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I wouldn't pinpoint any particular reason, but then I really had an opportunity to first off try myself out as a professional out of my comfort zone, which was Sri Lanka at that time.
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Because childhood was in Saudi Arabia, but there was this little time where I had to come back to do A levels and chartered accounting and all of that here.
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So my first proper professional experience after those seven, ten years in Sri Lanka was in Bahrain.
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And here I was having a British general manager, uh Bangladeshi chief operating officer as my two superiors, immediate superiors, and having to work with the gentleman from New Zealand as the chief credit officer, somebody from Praistan as a chief risk officer, the deputy general manager Bahraini gentleman.
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And so having this cosmopolitan mix, I really was pushed into the deep end to try and see myself, how I would fit in.
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And that probably forced me to get out of these little limitations that I had placed for myself.
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And moving on from that job, I got headhunted to the next place, which was a startup investment bank.
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And at that time, I was probably the 30th employee or whatever.
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And that organization operated on an entrepreneurial basis.
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So every single one of us was technically an owner of the organization and in reality as well, because we all of us had shares in it.
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It was part of our compensation package.
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So it forced us to think as entrepreneurs.
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That opened up a like a second set of ways in which I was beginning to explore myself.
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Now I was not just a person working there, but I was also working in an organization in which I was a part owner.
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And so I had a direct stake in how successful that organization would be, that would define my future as well.
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So that kind of thinking, that organization literally made not just me.
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I remember this transformation in almost all my colleagues.
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Yeah, all of us started thinking of as business people, as entrepreneurs, as real owners of the company.
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Even the driver, sometimes, this guy, he would never go home.
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And when I asked him, hey, say it, what are you doing here?
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No, no, no.
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Artif told me to wait.
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I got something to deliver to so and so.
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If I don't do it, nobody else will do it.
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That kind of a thinking came up.
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And that was probably the next stage of where you know I was literally forced into exploring myself, seeing where I could do, which way I could head, and so on.
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Next stage of development was where I was headhunted, but not into the banking sector, into the oil and gas sector.
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And once again, my friends were asking, hey, this is new, are you made for this?
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Can you work there?
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Do you know the industry?
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I would never know if I don't jump in.
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Right.
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And by this time, I had already gone through so many opportunities for me to think about myself outside the box or the limitations that were faced.
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And getting into this was just a natural thing to do.
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And I told myself, listen, give yourself three months, see if you can understand the industry.
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If you can, you're sorted.
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If not, quietly go scratching your head back to your former boss and see if he can get your job back.
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That's what that's how I was thinking.
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And I took the leap.
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It did take a little bit more than three months for me to get my hands into the oil and gas industry because believe me, it's really deep.
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It's just not simply a question of finding oil, pulling it out, refining it, and us pumping it into the cars.
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There's a lot more to it.
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So it took me a bit of a time.
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But if you ask me today, that was the next stage of discovery, self-discovery, and so on.
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I even found out like you know, the creams that we put on our face, the toothpaste that we all come from past dead animals, you know.
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The plastics, uh literally lots of things around this office probably used to be a living thing billions of years back.
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But that again was the next stage where I started exploring myself and so on.
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And a few other things as well happened.
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But I'll probably stop here because you probably may need to.
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Yeah, so at this point I usually ask the guest.
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The podcast is called the Creative Odyssey.
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Simply, what does creativity mean to you and how do you see that?
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Right.
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Now, the when I think of creativity, I would always think of us thinking of something new or something that's already existing but can be done in a better way.
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Now, what I didn't currently what I do is none of that is new.
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But what I thought is I'm going to do these three activities, but in a slightly different way to what is being done outside in the market.
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So let's take training, for instance.
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I don't have fixed training programs.
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Like if you ask me, I don't have like a weekly thing, people coming in, I don't do, I don't do trainings like that.
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I also don't have fixed curricula for different clients.
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I don't do that as well.
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Every client is unique, every client's requirement is unique.
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I would not design a program until I get that clarified on the client.
00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:30.720
And once it is designed, I'm not going to go and implement it without getting it okay by the client.
00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:36.799
Because I need to make sure whatever the client is paying for, they get value out of it.
00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:37.200
Yes.
00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:43.440
And the only way a client can get value out of the training I provide is if it solves their problem.
00:16:43.840 --> 00:16:44.559
Correct.
00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:46.960
So that's the type of creativity.
00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:51.440
So if you ask me, I don't have standard formula, standard syllabi for anything.
00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:55.039
Every program is made from scratch.
00:16:55.279 --> 00:17:03.440
Of course, there are foundational material that I use, but every program is created, is tailor-made to the client's request.
00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:05.119
So that's as far as training is concerned.
00:17:05.200 --> 00:17:07.039
Now let's get to the profession of coaching.
00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:08.720
Coaching is different to training.
00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:16.240
Training is where I give material for them to think about, for them to do, I give instructions, do this, do that, jump up, sit down.
00:17:16.400 --> 00:17:17.680
This is what a trainer does.
00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:21.119
A coach never says, do this, do that.
00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:25.039
A coach would ask the client, what do you think you should be doing?
00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:29.599
Where do you think you would have been had you done this?
00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:32.079
It's more of an exploratory process.
00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:45.359
So needless to say, a coaching can only be a true proper coach can only be successful if he or she treats every client as a unique individual who's coming with a unique set of problems.
00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:47.759
So once again, you've got to go with a clean slate.
00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:56.000
But coaching is not straightforward, and you really need to sit and think about every word a client says.
00:17:56.319 --> 00:17:58.160
I'll give you one very quick example.
00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:00.960
One of my recent clients.
00:18:01.279 --> 00:18:03.359
My simple question was, what do you like to do?
00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:09.279
Because I found that this person was lacking interest in life generally.
00:18:09.759 --> 00:18:10.960
So I just threw this question.
00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:11.680
What do you like to do?
00:18:11.839 --> 00:18:13.119
Very open-ended question.
00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:15.759
And in cricketing terms, it's what we call a batting wicket.
00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:24.079
The person's answer was I just wake up in the morning, I do this, I do that, I do this, and that's about it.
00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:25.200
And then I go to sleep.
00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:29.759
Which to me sounded like there's nothing I do that I like to do.
00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:30.559
Correct.
00:18:31.839 --> 00:18:38.400
That made me ask a follow-up question based on what the response was.
00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:40.000
Why do you go to the gym?
00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:42.079
Because one of the things the person said was going to the gym.
00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:43.200
Why do you go to the gym?
00:18:43.759 --> 00:18:44.960
Because I like to go to the gym.
00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:45.839
I said, that's it.
00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:47.519
Answer number one, Chief.
00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:48.720
Right.
00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:50.000
So let's write that down.
00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:53.599
And then I started probing every single thing that was said.
00:18:54.079 --> 00:19:00.880
And by the time we finished about six minutes of discussion, there were eight things on his list, on the person's list.
00:19:01.279 --> 00:19:07.200
Then I said, let's leave about 20 empty spaces because I know we are going to get more while as we talk through.
00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:11.599
And trust me, by the time we finish that hour of coaching, there were 24 things written down.
00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:12.559
Wow.
00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:14.880
And then I just asked the question.
00:19:15.039 --> 00:19:17.279
So tell me, what are the things that you like to do?
00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:19.440
And I got a whole list of things I like to do.
00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:20.160
Right.
00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:22.400
So now that's creativity.
00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:33.839
You just need to keep things open, you keep things as fluid as possible so that you get the client to realize the maximum out of them.
00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:37.599
So that's probably how I would say is creativity when it comes to coaching.
00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:48.319
Now, consulting is where organizations have specific problems or specific requirements, and they ask someone to come in and try to help them out.
00:19:48.480 --> 00:20:00.079
Now, once again, if I was doing a commercial consulting operation for want of a better term, I would probably have a one-size-fits-all when it comes to, say, a banking problem or when it comes to an operational problem.
00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:02.400
I again don't have one size fits all.
00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:06.480
There are also some consulting assignments which are a bit tricky.
00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:17.039
The organization wants a consultant just to come and tell the staff what the management wants to do once it gets, but they themselves don't want to do it.
00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:28.079
Whatever the requirement is, it really needs a lot of thinking to make sure you agree to or you provide the client the service that they require.
00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:36.319
Now, of course, when it comes to consulting assignments, as with the other two, one very important thing is to make sure you know we are quite ethical with what we do.
00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:42.400
We don't, you know, I don't really do things which I feel will harm people, which will be detrimental to people and all that.
00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:50.880
I don't do though, do that kind of stuff because I'm not really going after assignments and money right now at this stage in life.
00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:58.079
So within those limits, of course, I make sure I understand what the client's limit requirements are and satisfy those.
00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:02.880
So coming back to your question, how does creativity play a part in what I do?
00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:04.240
Am I creating something new?
00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:04.559
No.
00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:07.599
Coaching is not new, training is not new, consulting is not new.
00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:09.119
But where is the creativity?
00:21:09.279 --> 00:21:17.920
I treat every client as a unique individual, as a person with unique problems that need to be sorted out.
00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:21.519
So that's how I bring creativity into the coaching process.
00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:32.799
Every training requirement, understand what the requirements of the organization are, what problem do they intend to solve, and cater to those without taking a one-size-fits all.
00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:35.200
So that's how I believe creativity comes in over there.
00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:46.000
And when it comes to consulting assignments, properly understand what the client organization's requirements are and build a program or build a consulting assignment based around that.
00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:49.599
And that's probably how I would say creativity comes there, Sharon.
00:21:50.319 --> 00:21:55.119
So when you came to Sri Lanka, you're changing careers.
00:21:55.279 --> 00:21:55.599
Yep.
00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:56.480
Right?
00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:59.839
And first of all, how did you get the idea for course?
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:02.720
Coaching, leading, all of those things, training.
00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:14.640
And what was that mindset process like for you to get to the point of like, okay, now I'm this and I need to now, especially you're working you're working for yourself, I'm understanding, right?
00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:22.240
And and having to like find clients and these kinds of things, and you have to believe something about you before you even do that.
00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:24.000
So talk to me through that whole process.
00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:30.319
It was a bit of intent and a bit of chance.
00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:34.079
And I guess there's nothing wrong in having a combination of both of them.
00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:37.359
Because I have always thought of myself as a people person.
00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:41.440
I like to talk to people, I like to pass knowledge and so on.
00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:47.279
And I have done this in very informal settings right throughout my career, at office, outside office, and all that.
00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:49.279
So that was always there in me.
00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:53.920
Plus, during the days that I myself was a student, I used to also teach.
00:22:54.000 --> 00:23:03.759
So, like say I'm in part two, I used to teach part one because the institute saw, you know, this fellow's a talkative chap, you know, maybe we could ask him to teach, and then they find you're a good teacher too.
00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:06.559
And when I get to part three, they also give me some part two subjects.
00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:08.160
I've been always teaching.
00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:18.480
So it was always in me that, you know, at some stage I need to get into a thing to do something where I would be in a knowledge sharing kind of a setup.
00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:20.640
So that intent was always there.
00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:26.240
But work kept me busy in the professional, in the corporate sector, work kept me busy.
00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:34.160
Eventually, what happened was after coming to Sri Lanka, things weren't really, you know, everything was in a standstill and so on.
00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:38.000
But by a stroke of luck, and that's where chance played a part.
00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:50.079
One of my friends who was himself setting doing a startup, a small training setup, the guy said, Listen, I know you have a lot of experience.
00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:56.319
You may not have direct experience in the training sector, but can you help me set up the operations of my organization?
00:23:56.480 --> 00:24:04.000
So it was like a like a consulting thing, you may call it, or maybe like a short-term freelance, whatever, whatever you may call it.
00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:06.480
But I had to help the guy set up the operations.
00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:08.079
And I said, Yeah, of course.
00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:08.880
I know what I mean.
00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:11.440
You're a friend, and I will always love to help a friend.
00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:12.240
I got a I got in.
00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:17.519
So I started helping the guy out set up the operations of his training setup.
00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:34.079
And this was a typical startup story from a little office, two tables, four people seated across each other, and so we were putting things in place and operating procedures, policies and procedures, hiring people, so on, organizing training programs, all of that got set up.
00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:40.319
And while doing that, the guy suggested, you know, you are also reasonably good in training.
00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:42.720
Why don't you also become a trainer here?
00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:51.039
I didn't go there to do training, but that kind of restarted the training thing in me.
00:24:51.599 --> 00:24:53.759
And one thing led to another.
00:24:54.000 --> 00:25:00.079
The person was asking me to look at one set of courses, but that led me to another set of courses.
00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:01.920
That's where chance played a part.
00:25:02.079 --> 00:25:04.160
So I'm consulting for him.
00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:08.480
He says, look at courses of organization A, which was an American organization.
00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:14.400
That led me to Organization B, which was an organization based in the Philippines.
00:25:15.039 --> 00:25:26.960
Attending a meeting there, I meet an individual who is based out of Kuala Lampou, but from a Belgian-French background, who does training for coaches.
00:25:28.720 --> 00:25:38.160
Struck a conversation with the person, and one thing led to another, and he said, You seem to have qualities that will make a good coach.
00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:39.599
Would you like to consider?
00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:50.400
I ended up becoming his student and getting training to be an International Coaching Federation certified coach.
00:25:51.440 --> 00:26:04.960
And while doing that, I threw a small business idea at him and said, Sir, can I borrow your logo, your brand, your intellectual property and set it up in Sri Lanka?
00:26:05.119 --> 00:26:06.240
And he said, Yeah, why not?
00:26:06.319 --> 00:26:07.119
Why don't you do it?
00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:13.200
So I literally am representing my guru's organization in Sri Lanka.
00:26:13.839 --> 00:26:22.799
And he took that idea, and then he also asked a few of his other students if you'll go to our organization's website now, you'll actually find regional leaders.
00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:23.359
I see.
00:26:23.599 --> 00:26:26.160
All coming from a little conversation I had with him.
00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:29.680
And so, in a way, it was like a nice win-win thing.
00:26:29.759 --> 00:26:36.240
So I got a superb, superbly set up organization with all the collateral and what have you.
00:26:36.400 --> 00:26:40.640
And then he got a wider network because he obviously has been training people from all over the world.
00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:47.440
And so now we are like a small little multinational, each individually set up in different countries and doing it.
00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:51.599
He was, while we were doing this, now I was training to be a coach, remember?
00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:53.759
There was never training involved.
00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:55.920
I made a request.
00:26:56.079 --> 00:27:00.000
Can I run training programs under the umbrella of this organization?
00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:01.440
And he said, Yeah, that's fine.
00:27:01.599 --> 00:27:02.160
Please go ahead.
00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:06.079
And he was kind enough to say, Whatever you do from training, I don't want anything to do with it.
00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:07.200
It's yours.
00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:09.359
So, in a way, he said, It's your baby.
00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:10.400
You do what it does.
00:27:10.960 --> 00:27:12.400
That opened up training.
00:27:13.599 --> 00:27:17.440
It was just a brain, I just a brainwave, and it just opened up training.
00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:19.119
I wasn't a trained trainer.
00:27:19.359 --> 00:27:20.720
No, training is not easy.
00:27:20.799 --> 00:27:22.240
You need to know how to train.
00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:26.960
So I found another program that trained trainers, a locally based program.
00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:35.519
I did that, learned the rudiments of being a trainer, then I also followed a few other things, and I got myself also retrained as a trainer.
00:27:35.920 --> 00:27:40.480
So as you can see, it's a bit of intent, but a lot of luck and chance also played their part.
00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:46.000
Network, people I know, knowing people I know, friends of friends.
00:27:46.240 --> 00:27:47.920
And I got to where I am today.
00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:53.680
So today I represent this organization called Morphosis Coaching, which is headquartered in Kuala Lumpur, run by my guru.
00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:55.759
His name is Jean-Francois Jardin.
00:27:55.920 --> 00:28:05.359
And we have regional leaders in in Indonesia, in Greece, in UK, in Tunisia, and so on.
00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:06.480
And that's how it is.
00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:12.000
So long story short, the shortest answer to your question is a bit of intent and a bit of chance.
00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:13.920
Got to got me to where I am.
00:28:14.400 --> 00:28:18.240
So after being in the coaching, wow, that's a really interesting story.
00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:20.480
That's very confusing too.
00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:23.599
It's it's I like the intent in there.
00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:26.799
I think that's the most important thing I understood from it.
00:28:27.279 --> 00:28:39.759
After being in the training, coaching uh realm of field, what are some of the mistakes leaders make when it comes to leading their own people and things like that?
00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:46.880
I'll probably answer this not just from coaching training point of view, but even from my personal experience.
00:28:46.960 --> 00:28:50.720
I also have made lots of mistakes, and I guess No way, really.
00:28:53.200 --> 00:28:56.880
Nobody in the world can claim to have not made mistakes in their lives.
00:28:59.039 --> 00:29:00.799
But a lot of mistakes.
00:29:01.119 --> 00:29:08.559
Most of my mistakes came from where I was looking at things from an egoistic position.
00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:11.119
I know more than you, kind of thing.
00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:15.279
And that probably is the biggest mistake any leader can make.
00:29:16.400 --> 00:29:23.359
The point is we have people so that collectively we can do better.
00:29:23.680 --> 00:29:24.079
Correct.
00:29:24.240 --> 00:29:28.720
And individually we know we can't do better than collect.
00:29:29.119 --> 00:29:35.119
But that thing somehow goes off our head when hierarchy sets in.
00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:37.039
And for me, that was the biggest problem.
00:29:37.359 --> 00:29:39.440
You need to do this because I told you to do it.
00:29:39.680 --> 00:29:42.000
I had that attitude once upon a time.
00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:45.119
But very soon I settled down.
00:29:45.279 --> 00:29:53.119
Very soon I learned that was not going to work because team members, especially the younger ones, actually knew more than us.
00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:56.319
They are coming with more fresh information, fresh knowledge.
00:29:56.640 --> 00:29:59.599
They may not have experience, but they have knowledge.
00:29:59.839 --> 00:30:05.680
We bring the experience factor, and when we bring both of that together, we come up with better solutions.
00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:08.400
It took some time for me to realize that.
00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:10.079
And once I did.
00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:14.319
Was there a reason how uh or a story where you it made you realize?
00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:21.920
Obviously, getting bombed by my boss for a mistake, and then he finds out that the junior actually had the response.
00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:24.000
Why the hell didn't you listen to that guy?
00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:32.319
Because he's younger than me, because he's so there was it, it was a bit of a wake-up call.
00:30:32.559 --> 00:30:34.319
There has to be something like that.
00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:39.440
You know, life isn't always hunky dory and lovey in the corporate sector.
00:30:39.599 --> 00:30:43.279
Some there are there are tough days and tough discussions also.
00:30:44.079 --> 00:30:50.000
But eventually, once I clicked to me, very soon I settled down after that.
00:30:50.079 --> 00:30:52.079
And then I realized, hey, that's that's how it is.
00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:56.480
That's that's one of the and that's one of the biggest mistakes lots of so-called leaders make.
00:30:56.640 --> 00:30:57.599
The word is a leader.
00:30:57.680 --> 00:31:00.400
We forget what a leader truly is supposed to do.
00:31:00.640 --> 00:31:05.359
You're supposed to lead as against managing.
00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:08.160
There is a distinction between being a leader and being a manager.
00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:13.759
Manager is you manage the work, leading is you lead a group of people towards a common goal.
00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:19.920
And over there, it's not just the leader's point of view that matters, it's everyone's point of view.
00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:25.279
And that, if we can somehow fix that, I guess lots of leadership issues can get sorted out.
00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:28.000
So for me, it was mainly ego.
00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:32.960
But the moment I sorted that out, I turned out, started becoming a better leader.
00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:34.400
Was I a better manager?
00:31:34.559 --> 00:31:35.359
Maybe not.
00:31:35.599 --> 00:31:39.920
But I turned out to be a better leader, and that always is better in the long run.
00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:47.200
You're not a good manager, you may miss deadlines, you may make a few mistakes at work and what have you.
00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:49.039
But those can be fixed.
00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:55.359
You miss a deadline, you go and say sorry to somebody, get shelled at, but then you somehow finish it off and you can deliver the work.
00:31:55.680 --> 00:31:59.759
But to be a good leader, that's a bit of a long-term thing.
00:31:59.920 --> 00:32:04.960
The benefits of it flow not just today, tomorrow, but for years to come.
00:32:05.839 --> 00:32:08.880
And I I started molding myself along those lines.
00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:23.039
Coming to training, coaching, and my experience over there, lots of times I find not just ego, but also sometimes lack of knowledge, lack of information, lack of trust among the team.
00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:31.119
Even and lack of trust, by the way, not just because of any fault of the leader, the so-called leader, but also because of the team.
00:32:31.279 --> 00:32:31.680
Right.
00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:35.920
Things the people have done in the past have led to the lack of trust.
00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:42.640
So lots of factors sometimes come to light, Sharan, when it comes to leadership challenges, challenges faced by leaders.
00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:44.880
Which again goes back to what I said.
00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:47.039
Not all leaders have the same problem.
00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:51.759
You need to talk to them first, understand what the issue is before you give solutions to them.
00:32:51.839 --> 00:32:53.359
And that's that's where I come in.
00:32:53.759 --> 00:33:00.000
Part of understanding these leaders are seeing their weaknesses and forties and whatnot.
00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:06.799
And almost it almost seems like you're playing the role of a counselor first to understand the person.
00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:18.720
Now, what's been the best way you've been able to help a leader change and be molded into a better leader, especially with hierarchy?
00:33:18.799 --> 00:33:26.400
Because I think one of the things that we can both agree is that especially in Sri Lanka, hierarchy is such an important thing in workplace.
00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:29.440
And I was talking to Arishad from Flash Health.
00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:32.559
He they don't have these specific titles and whatnot.
00:33:32.720 --> 00:33:35.599
He said, it's all just lead leads and leaders.
00:33:35.759 --> 00:33:38.960
So that's a huge task to do in Sri Lanka, don't you?
00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:40.720
It is, it is, it is a very big task.
00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:45.200
Once again, if you remember, I told you I got into this investment bank which was entrepreneurial.
00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:53.680
If you looked at our business cards, if you looked at mine, it said Farha's Faruk, name of the company, there was no designation on it.
00:33:53.839 --> 00:33:57.680
If you looked at my bosses, it said Issa Zainal, name of the company, da da da da da da da.
00:33:57.920 --> 00:34:04.640
So when the two of us go for meetings and both of us hand over our cards, the person on the other side didn't know which fellow's boss, which fellows are subordinate.
00:34:04.720 --> 00:34:08.800
So as far as they were concerned, they are representing the organization.
00:34:09.039 --> 00:34:12.719
I think Flash Health operates along similar lines, very good way.
00:34:12.880 --> 00:34:13.199
Yeah.
00:34:13.519 --> 00:34:16.480
Now, that benefit was there in me.
00:34:17.199 --> 00:34:20.639
Hierarchies don't really matter to the outside world.
00:34:20.719 --> 00:34:20.960
Yeah.
00:34:21.199 --> 00:34:26.719
And it doesn't really matter in the inside as well, as long as we know what each team is supposed to deliver.
00:34:27.039 --> 00:34:27.360
Okay.
00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:31.360
Now, in Sri Lanka, yes, hierarchy is important.
00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:37.199
By the way, just not in Sri Lanka, lots of places in the world, around the world, hierarchy is still quite important.
00:34:37.760 --> 00:34:46.239
How do we convince or how do we talk to organizations and leaders where they still consider hierarchy important?
00:34:46.719 --> 00:34:48.480
Which goes to what you said.
00:34:48.639 --> 00:34:49.840
You use the word counselor.
00:34:49.920 --> 00:34:55.119
I'm not a trained counselor, so I wouldn't dare get into that territory, but I am a trained coach.
00:34:55.280 --> 00:34:57.119
I do have the skills to be a coach.
00:34:57.199 --> 00:35:01.440
What I do initially in my discussions is I play the role of a coach.
00:35:01.599 --> 00:35:10.719
I do those probing questions and let the person come up with their own thinking process for that particular problem.
00:35:11.440 --> 00:35:23.519
And coming out of that will be follow-up questions, which eventually quietly leads them towards the direction where I feel would be the best solution for them.
00:35:23.599 --> 00:35:28.079
So if it's a question of hierarchy is too rigid, we need to quietly steer them away.
00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:30.320
So I would be steering the discussion that way.
00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:34.960
As against in some organization, I may even actually go for the other alternative.
00:35:35.119 --> 00:35:39.280
They don't have a hierarchy, you probably should think of this kind of a thing.
00:35:39.519 --> 00:35:54.400
But the way it's done is I wear my the hat of a coach and I start coaching them first, get as much information as I can, and then using that get to the next level of discussion, which would be in wearing the trainer's hat or some other hats.
00:35:54.880 --> 00:35:57.920
Counseling itself is a totally different profession.
00:35:58.079 --> 00:35:59.119
But I get what you mean.
00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:00.960
This is this is exactly what you're meaning.
00:36:01.119 --> 00:36:02.000
But this is what I do.
00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:03.280
I become a coach.
00:36:03.519 --> 00:36:12.079
Another quick example recently we're talking to a group of people about etiquette, and we were we got to dining etiquette.
00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:12.480
Okay.
00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:21.440
Dining has, you know, when you go to a formal organization, you have everything arranged, and you gotta start with this and that, and you gotta sit in a particular way, you gotta all of that.
00:36:21.679 --> 00:36:31.840
And during the discussion, one particular individual was asking very loudly with for everybody to hear, why should we follow rules set by others?
00:36:32.079 --> 00:36:33.119
Which is a valid question.
00:36:33.280 --> 00:36:33.360
Right.
00:36:33.599 --> 00:36:34.559
Absolutely valid question.
00:36:34.719 --> 00:36:37.039
Why should we follow rules set by others?
00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:40.000
I'm happy with the way I eat.
00:36:41.360 --> 00:36:43.440
In this situation, there's a bit of a dilemma.
00:36:43.519 --> 00:36:46.639
Do I go head-on collision?
00:36:46.719 --> 00:36:46.880
Right.
00:36:47.119 --> 00:36:50.079
Or do I once again I put the hat of a coach?
00:36:50.480 --> 00:36:56.719
This was an educational organization, so the person who was talking, asking this question was themselves an academic.
00:36:57.039 --> 00:37:03.920
So I put on the hat of a coach, and the way I asked is, well, I tend to agree with you.
00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:08.000
I also have my preferred way of eating because I usually eat with my right hand.
00:37:08.079 --> 00:37:13.840
So if even with a fork, I might actually eat with the right hand, though that's not the accepted way when you're in a formal setting.
00:37:14.239 --> 00:37:24.480
But I said having my own point of view is good, but isn't it also good if we are open to new ideas?
00:37:25.519 --> 00:37:27.599
And then I linked it to their profession.
00:37:27.679 --> 00:37:35.119
I said, as an academic, as a we base our academia on a certain set of readings that we have done.
00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:39.119
Having said that, academia also changes, it develops.
00:37:39.280 --> 00:37:44.559
If we do not have an open mind to accept new thinking, we may not progress well as an academic.
00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:48.320
I said, from that point of view, isn't it good to accept something else?
00:37:48.480 --> 00:37:50.639
And so that's how I stared the conversation.
00:37:50.800 --> 00:37:51.119
Right.
00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:53.679
And I think it turned out well.
00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:59.760
I don't know, I don't know if the person changed the way they're eating, but at least it makes people think.
00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:01.760
It makes people think.
00:38:02.079 --> 00:38:10.480
And even to me, I was also surprised how I brought that quick connection between dining etiquette and the profession of the individual.
00:38:10.559 --> 00:38:10.639
Right.
00:38:10.880 --> 00:38:13.920
And I could link this into just open your mind and some.
00:38:14.159 --> 00:38:17.760
There's nothing, no harm in thinking of some other new way of doing things.
00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:21.920
Whether you accept it or not is secondary, but at least that will make your mind grow.
00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:22.400
Right.
00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:24.559
And that'll help you in your profession, kind of a thing.
00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:26.320
So that happened.
00:38:26.639 --> 00:38:27.599
That's brilliant.
00:38:28.400 --> 00:38:36.400
So sounds like showing up with your creativity at your work is like almost like an important thing.
00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:42.639
It's like a tool built in your it has to, and I think it also has to be a bit of an impulsive thing as well.
00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:45.360
It should, it's also, it has to be inbuilt.
00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:48.639
Every person you speak to is unique, Sharan.
00:38:48.880 --> 00:38:56.239
And having a one size fits all never works, which is why whenever I go into any discussion, I always go with a very open mind.
00:38:56.559 --> 00:39:00.000
Because you never know which way the discussion goes, which way the training will go.
00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:06.320
And immediately you need to think of something that will steer the direction, steer the conversation in the right direction.
00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:10.639
So you need to have that creativity embedded, I would say.
00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:22.239
So in a world where there is LMS, learning management systems, and all these other kinds of like usually a coach has all these things and like what you said, like classes and pre-done stuff, right?
00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:29.760
So it sounds like every time you go to a new organization, you create from scratch, or you how does that process work?
00:39:30.159 --> 00:39:33.039
So as I said, it's not really a question of creating from scratch.
00:39:33.199 --> 00:39:37.199
I do have some basic foundation for various topics.
00:39:37.440 --> 00:39:43.599
However, it's not like I have a standard set of PowerPoint slides and I just, you know, cut and chop and put them in.
00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:48.079
It doesn't work that way because every organization's requirement is different.
00:39:48.239 --> 00:39:50.079
So I use the base that I have.
00:39:50.239 --> 00:39:51.920
Of course, I work with another gentleman as well.
00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:53.599
So the two of us develop this together.
00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:54.079
Okay.
00:39:54.400 --> 00:39:59.519
But every time we sit and go through and then we say, where do we tweak this, where do we turn this?
00:39:59.679 --> 00:40:01.920
Their problems are not like the previous clients.
00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:02.719
They could be different.
00:40:02.800 --> 00:40:08.400
The way clients talk to them will be different, the clients deal to them is different, the way they deal with suppliers could be different.
00:40:08.639 --> 00:40:16.719
So we kind of make each thing that we put into the presentation unique to that particular organization.
00:40:16.800 --> 00:40:21.840
And you can only do that by having proper open conversation with the client beforehand.
00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:23.280
So that's what we do.
00:40:23.360 --> 00:40:37.039
And so, yes, we work from a we do have a certain foundation set of material, but from that we develop everything which is uniquely catered, tailor-made, bespoke to that particular person.
00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:47.199
So if I were to again draw resemblance or some similarity to tailoring, it's a bit like you'll have the cloth and the buttons and the thread, but every person's fitting is different.
00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:48.960
So you need to make sure you need to get that right.
00:40:49.039 --> 00:40:50.559
So that material's there.
00:40:50.719 --> 00:40:53.760
Once you speak to them only, you know how you're going to get it fitted.
00:40:53.920 --> 00:40:56.079
And so that's probably what we do.
00:40:57.840 --> 00:41:01.920
So now we've been in Sri Lanka for almost five, six years now.
00:41:03.119 --> 00:41:08.320
What is the impact you are trying to make with the company and your mission that you're out after?
00:41:08.639 --> 00:41:09.039
Sure.
00:41:09.360 --> 00:41:21.119
So what I really want to do is to bring this whole thing about having understanding clients' needs prior to actually going and doing anything.
00:41:21.360 --> 00:41:29.440
I mean, sad to say, I've seen in Sri Lanka there's a whole load of coaches, a whole load of training taking place, but lots of them seem to be one size fits all.
00:41:29.519 --> 00:41:32.400
And I want this profession to move out of it.
00:41:32.880 --> 00:41:35.199
Having said that, there's also good news.
00:41:35.360 --> 00:41:49.599
Lots of coaches and trainers are also adopting something similar to what I do, where they don't have a one-size-fits-all, they actually are going and making sure what is developed and what is delivered solves client problems, customer problems.
00:41:49.760 --> 00:41:50.960
So we have both ends.
00:41:51.039 --> 00:41:57.519
But I would like more people to shift to this side of the spectrum where we're actually serving a client's needs.
00:41:57.920 --> 00:42:00.159
Learned this from my guru, Jeff.
00:42:00.480 --> 00:42:01.119
We call him.
00:42:01.280 --> 00:42:05.039
He said, whatever you do should be at the service of the client.
00:42:05.199 --> 00:42:08.239
Otherwise, it's a waste for yourself as well as the client.
00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:12.159
You will get some money, but then are you going to grow as a professional?
00:42:12.320 --> 00:42:14.079
Are you going to grow your reputation?
00:42:14.320 --> 00:42:14.719
Right.
00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:15.199
Right.
00:42:15.360 --> 00:42:17.360
So this is one thing that I wish to do.
00:42:17.519 --> 00:42:26.400
The second thing that I wish to do is to try to make this particular profession, particularly coaching, a little bit more affordable and available.
00:42:26.559 --> 00:42:27.199
Yes.
00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:34.719
Lots of times the amounts quoted are quite high.
00:42:34.880 --> 00:42:38.639
Now, yes, we need to make a living, don't get me wrong, and money is important.
00:42:39.519 --> 00:42:44.159
But there is also a certain service element that comes with these two professions.
00:42:44.480 --> 00:42:44.719
Absolutely.
00:42:45.039 --> 00:42:49.280
Maybe consulting, not so much, but from coaching and training, there's also a service element.
00:42:49.679 --> 00:43:03.599
So I make it a point when I do my discussions, especially the initial discovery discussions, if I feel even the slightest hint that the client may not be able to afford my standard fees, I don't quote those.
00:43:05.519 --> 00:43:11.039
I try to find out from the client what could be something reasonable that they are willing to pay.
00:43:11.199 --> 00:43:12.480
And I would go with that.
00:43:12.719 --> 00:43:15.039
Now, does that harm me financially?
00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:16.000
Maybe.
00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:18.400
In the short run, maybe.
00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:19.840
But guess what?
00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:22.000
I have actually got a new friend.
00:43:22.639 --> 00:43:24.559
A new client, a new friend.
00:43:24.719 --> 00:43:25.039
Yes.
00:43:25.360 --> 00:43:30.079
They become successful, is he or she is going to become my marketing team.
00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:31.840
Absolutely.
00:43:32.079 --> 00:43:32.639
Absolutely.
00:43:32.800 --> 00:43:33.599
That makes sense.
00:43:33.840 --> 00:43:41.280
So instead of charging the full amount and spending a lot of time and effort on a marketing campaign, I would rather use this.
00:43:41.760 --> 00:43:43.039
The service aspect to it.
00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:44.159
The service aspect of it.
00:43:44.320 --> 00:43:48.639
So if you look at my LinkedIn profile, you will find very little mention of what I do.
00:43:48.880 --> 00:43:51.440
You'll find very little mention of my coaching, my training.
00:43:51.519 --> 00:43:56.800
I I have on and off, I do some posts, but I'm not crazy on social media when it comes to this.
00:43:57.039 --> 00:43:59.599
I am visible, but not every day.
00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:00.719
I'm happy to do this.
00:44:01.119 --> 00:44:02.159
I don't do things like that.
00:44:02.400 --> 00:44:03.840
Mainly because I don't need to.
00:44:04.639 --> 00:44:05.440
I don't need to.
00:44:05.920 --> 00:44:09.280
From my client base, I get new clients.
00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:10.480
I get a lot of referrals.
00:44:10.559 --> 00:44:13.360
I get a lot of people coming in, calling me.
00:44:13.519 --> 00:44:15.840
Hey, I I I got your number from so and so.
00:44:17.360 --> 00:44:18.320
Can we have a chat?
00:44:19.599 --> 00:44:21.920
So it's not always all about money.
00:44:22.159 --> 00:44:29.039
So therefore, what I have something that I wish to do is to make sure that this becomes a lot more affordable.
00:44:29.199 --> 00:44:31.840
So a lot more people can benefit from this profession.
00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:36.400
And once this broadbasing happens, Sharan, clients are just going to come in.
00:44:37.119 --> 00:44:40.480
Currently, we are all fighting for a small pool of clients.
00:44:41.440 --> 00:44:48.880
The blue chips, the sea suits, company, organization, business owners, perhaps.
00:44:48.960 --> 00:44:49.679
And that's like what?
00:44:49.760 --> 00:44:51.360
We are a country of 20 million people.
00:44:51.760 --> 00:44:54.320
We are trying to fight for about 5,000 people.
00:44:54.559 --> 00:44:54.800
Right.
00:44:55.280 --> 00:45:00.159
If we broadbase this and increase this 5,000 to 50,000 players, a lot more clients.
00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:00.719
That's okay.
00:45:01.199 --> 00:45:02.400
Why don't we think about that?
00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:03.039
Exactly.
00:45:03.360 --> 00:45:04.079
That's one aspect.
00:45:04.239 --> 00:45:06.639
The other thing is Sri Lankan coaches.
00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:10.480
Lots of us are focused just within Sri Lanka.
00:45:10.719 --> 00:45:12.400
I also work with outside clients.
00:45:13.280 --> 00:45:15.119
I work with clients outside Sri Lanka.
00:45:15.199 --> 00:45:22.239
I have a reasonable network that gets me referrals and a pipeline of clients from outside.
00:45:22.480 --> 00:45:23.920
Why don't we also look at that?
00:45:24.079 --> 00:45:32.239
So whilst you can make it affordable locally, you can actually make your money internationally because you can be very competitive in the international market.
00:45:33.760 --> 00:45:35.599
You know how much a rupee is worth, right?
00:45:36.639 --> 00:45:38.320
A dollar gets us 300 rupees.
00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:38.639
Right.
00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:46.239
So if an international coach is charging, say$500 an hour, we don't need to go that far to make a lot of money.
00:45:46.800 --> 00:45:47.599
Right, exactly.
00:45:47.840 --> 00:45:54.400
So what I say is you make your money where you can, and then you drop your rates so that you can broadbase it locally.
00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:56.320
So that's another thing that I would really like to get into.
00:45:56.559 --> 00:45:58.159
It's almost like a sustainability aspect.
00:45:58.719 --> 00:46:00.960
Aspect and to grow the grow the pot.
00:46:01.440 --> 00:46:03.599
Currently we are just fighting for a very small pot.
00:46:03.679 --> 00:46:04.559
Why would you do that?
00:46:04.719 --> 00:46:04.880
Right.
00:46:05.119 --> 00:46:05.920
Why would you do that?
00:46:06.639 --> 00:46:14.159
If you can grow the pot, then the market actually becomes a lot bigger, becomes a lot more affordable, and a lot more people will want your services.
00:46:14.960 --> 00:46:16.719
If you don't do that, there is a danger.
00:46:17.599 --> 00:46:26.159
The danger is that somebody is going to cater to that market at a lower price, and that may not be at the quality that the profession deserves.
00:46:26.719 --> 00:46:27.360
That's true.
00:46:32.159 --> 00:46:37.760
That quality may drop, and therefore the credibility of the entire profession might come down.
00:46:38.079 --> 00:46:44.880
So those who can maintain the credibility should just need to think about sacrificing a bit and broad basing the client base sure.
00:46:45.599 --> 00:47:02.400
Finally, I always ask the guest at the end based on your life, based on everything you've done, mistakes and all somebody looking at this, watching this episode, and being inspired to take some steps, or they feel they're stuck in life.
00:47:03.119 --> 00:47:04.159
What do you have to say to them?
00:47:04.880 --> 00:47:12.480
So what I would suggest that you should be doing is look inwards, see what you truly want to do in the world.
00:47:13.519 --> 00:47:18.320
And over here, if you permit me, I could talk about this Japanese concept called ikigai.
00:47:18.480 --> 00:47:19.360
Yes, I know that very well.
00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:29.199
That's something that I actually applied to myself in figuring out where my ikigai, my purpose of living was, and which was in people development.
00:47:29.920 --> 00:47:42.159
Similarly, every single one of you, if you answer those four questions that ikigai concept puts out, you will be able to figure out what really matters to you, what is the purpose of your respective lives.
00:47:42.239 --> 00:47:48.079
And trust me, when you get the answer to that and you focus on doing that, you will be in the right place.
00:47:48.559 --> 00:47:51.840
Sharon, I can't put it as simple more simpler than this.
00:47:52.880 --> 00:47:54.639
I practice ikigai myself.
00:47:54.880 --> 00:47:59.920
I do a lot of guy work when it comes to my coaching because I think it's quite powerful.
00:48:00.239 --> 00:48:00.480
It is.
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:03.440
It's a very simple concept, but a very powerful concept.
00:48:04.159 --> 00:48:11.920
I have even managed to, of course, it's not good for my profession as an accountant, but a couple of accountants have quit being accountants, have gotten into doing other things.
00:48:12.159 --> 00:48:12.559
Right.
00:48:13.119 --> 00:48:14.159
Which is not bad.
00:48:14.320 --> 00:48:14.480
Right.
00:48:14.719 --> 00:48:18.079
There's one accountant who decided to get into pottery.
00:48:18.800 --> 00:48:20.800
Yeah, absolutely.
00:48:21.199 --> 00:48:22.400
Got into pottery.
00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:22.800
Yeah.
00:48:23.039 --> 00:48:24.559
And there's nothing wrong in that.
00:48:24.639 --> 00:48:27.280
You can still use your accounting knowledge in managing your business.
00:48:28.320 --> 00:48:28.719
Absolutely.
00:48:28.800 --> 00:48:30.880
No, I think that's the most beautiful thing, right?
00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:35.039
Like in life, you you you collect all these skills, nothing is a waste.
00:48:35.760 --> 00:48:41.039
And Kigai is one of those things I have personally practiced, like about 10 years ago or something like that.
00:48:41.119 --> 00:48:42.960
I saw on social media all over the place.
00:48:43.199 --> 00:48:44.639
And I was like, this is interesting.
00:48:44.800 --> 00:48:57.360
Now it took me a while to like really get to that point of figuring it out, but that practice of trying to figure it out got my mind to think in the terms of what do I really want to do?
00:48:57.519 --> 00:48:58.400
What am I here to do?
00:48:58.480 --> 00:49:00.719
What I you know, what am I loved to do, and things like that.
00:49:00.880 --> 00:49:11.920
And I'm I'm happy to say I'm here doing what I'm loved to do, and and stories like yours and and especially being able to change and follow your curiosity, right?
00:49:12.079 --> 00:49:17.920
That's the thing that I admire the most about you, that you follow your curiosity even at 45 years old.
00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:21.280
Like, and I I'm pretty sure you're gonna continue to do that for the rest of your life.
00:49:23.039 --> 00:49:25.199
Forhas, thank you so much for being on the podcast.
00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:26.239
It was a pleasure.
00:49:26.400 --> 00:49:33.039
All I gotta say is that please comment below and some of the things that actually tug your heart and and let's start a conversation about this.
00:49:33.199 --> 00:49:38.480
Until next time, though, keep dreaming, keep creating, and keep going on your own creative Odyssey.
00:49:38.559 --> 00:49:40.000
Until next time, see you later.
00:49:40.239 --> 00:49:44.079
We're so excited to share with you all the episodes that we filmed in Sri Lanka.
00:49:44.159 --> 00:49:49.599
We know a lot of you have been waiting, but we wanted to make sure that we did this really meaningfully because it really was an exciting time.
00:49:49.840 --> 00:49:55.039
When Sean first came to me and said he was gonna take the podcast to Sri Lanka, I honestly thought he was crazy.
00:49:55.280 --> 00:49:56.159
And so did I.
00:49:56.719 --> 00:50:00.719
I was like, is there any possibility we can fit this in?
00:50:00.880 --> 00:50:05.440
I want to try to bring the podcast in, get to know people, and interview Peters.
00:50:05.679 --> 00:50:12.880
So we expected to have just a few conversations, maybe a little sparks of inspiration here and there, but what happened was so much deeper than that.
00:50:13.119 --> 00:50:20.960
We met so many people that not only you got to interview, but that also like came alongside us to help make these conversations happen.
00:50:21.280 --> 00:50:26.159
The crazy thing was this daring idea of going to a country, even the one from Sri Lanka.
00:50:26.239 --> 00:50:37.599
I hadn't been back for like seven years, and all I knew was some people from school that I went to and some social media that I've been following, but didn't really have a concrete plan to make it happen.
00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:47.519
And some days we had six, seven episodes back-to-back recorded because people were waiting and and and you were kind of facilitating that, yeah.
00:50:47.760 --> 00:51:07.119
Yeah, so it felt really significant because not only was it that we were having like these raw and authentic conversations, but a lot of their stories resonated with charmants, and so it just was really fascinating to see them speaking the same language and to see like just this commonality of creativity and identity and purpose coming out as the themes of these conversations.
00:51:07.440 --> 00:51:09.760
You must be wondering when this trip happened.
00:51:09.840 --> 00:51:16.159
It happened in September, and uh the goal was to get these episodes out by December of last year.
00:51:16.320 --> 00:51:23.760
Well, a lot of things happened, and I didn't want to diminish the work we put in and again the amazing gifts that we've had.
00:51:23.840 --> 00:51:28.639
So we decided to do something really cool, and we're gonna post however many we can a week.
00:51:28.880 --> 00:51:31.519
So, LinkedIn, every single episode, you'll find a free PDF.
00:51:31.599 --> 00:51:33.280
It's actually a magazine that we developed.
00:51:33.440 --> 00:51:40.480
You can kind of think of it like if you go to a concert and you get like the souvenir of what happened behind the scenes and just about the different artists and all those things.
00:51:40.639 --> 00:51:49.199
We wanted to share with you not only about Sherman's journey, but then help you connect with some of the guests that we interview in Sri Lanka and then invite you on your own creative Odyssey.
00:51:49.519 --> 00:52:03.119
Yes, there's so much more that goes into or that fuels this podcast, which is this mission to inspire people to create so that they can get to know themselves and connect with their inner child.
00:52:03.519 --> 00:52:14.159
So to see that we could bring that story out of Sri Lankan creatives, a wide diverse range of creatives was definitely a highlight.
00:52:14.400 --> 00:52:24.559
Our hope is that whether you're living in the States, you're living in Sri Lanka, or somewhere else around the world, you'll connect with someone's story within Sri Lanka and it might inspire you to continue on your own creative codes.
00:52:24.880 --> 00:52:29.360
The link to the PDF for the magazine is in the description, and please check it out.
00:52:29.440 --> 00:52:35.199
They're doing really cool things that I really think you should be checking out to see their journeys.
00:52:35.360 --> 00:52:38.639
So, without further ado, let's get to the episode.