Philippe Pascal, Owner, Domaine Du Cellier Aux Moines, Bourgogne

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FOURCY Radio. Welcome to the Connected
Table Live. We're your hosts, Melanie
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Young and David Ransom. You're insatiably
curious culinary couple. We enjoy bringing you
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the dynamic people who are front and
center and behind the scenes in wine,
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food, spirits and hospitality around the
world. We enjoy travel and meeting them
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and sharing their stories with you and
the wines they produced, in this case,
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with our guests today. This is
our guest today has an amazing career,
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a long and impressive career in the
wine fine wine industry. He is
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from France and his resume just listened
to these companies so PEXA Seagram, LVMH,
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LVMH and at LVMH he did work
with many luxury brands, not just
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fine wine, but also Krug Champagne. He helped with the acquisition of Bulgary.
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So really, this gentleman is an
expert in luxury wines and products and
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marketing them to the world. We're
talking with Philippe Pascal. Interestingly, he
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left the corporate world to focus on
becoming a vegnoron. Now think about that,
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you had this amazing corporate career for
like decades. You receive Francis Lejeon
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do'nour, the Legion of Honor,
which is the highest honor you could rest
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on your laurels and your corporate I'm
done. He still counsels the head of
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LVMH, bernardo' know, but he
decided to dick his hands on the dirt
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and focus on his winery. And
it's in Burgundy, and he actually has
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two. Now he is joining us
from his a winery in Burgundy, domain
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Ducelier Amint. We have some wines
in front of us. He also is
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doing work producing beautiful wines in Beaujolais, and it's in the Coat Chalonnaise,
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which is an interesting area we have
not been yet. So we're going to
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talk about that and talk about his
illustrious career. Felipe Pascal, Welcome to
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the Connected Table. Happy to be
with you, Millennium. David, Well,
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we're thrilled to have you join us
today, Philly. You know,
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I want to take a little bit
of a dive back into your past and
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talk about growing up, where you
grew up in France, and what got
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you started in business, and some
of the jobs that you did before you
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got into wine, which was obviously
fairly late in your career, but you
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obviously had a full career before that. So let's highlight a couple of things
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that we mentioned earlier that you that
you've done in your life before that.
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Yes, so you want me to
start with my early life as a kid,
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Well, I think we'll start there, because that's a long career.
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From what we understand. You actually
grew up in a family in the textile
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business, not in the wine business. Yes, my father was my grandfather
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aware in the textile business, which
in France was a struggling industry in the
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beginning of the twentieth century and mid
twentieth century, and the family business went
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bankrupt so had to take a position
in a company who bought out the family
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business. And I grew up there
very happily as the oldest of four kids.
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And I vividly remember my first memories
with wine. You know, when
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we grew up, we were allowed
with my brother and sister two, although
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we were still kids, to taste
a bit of wine on the Sunday if
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we had if we had got good
calles at at school, and that was
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one tens of wine and nine tenths
of water, and so it was.
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It was a very pale beverage,
but it had that taste of wine.
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And that's really four years. I
was happy to have my my my water
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cut with a bit of red wine. And I was feeling like a grown
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up guy. And then the the
the I decided I was fascinated by nature.
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I was not fascinated by the industry. I wanted to do my career
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and spend my life in nature working. I was attracted by the by the
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by agriculture and by farming. So
I did my for for university. I
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went to the agricultural school to get
a master in agronomy and that's what I
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studied. And while I was at
the university, I met my wife.
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She was studying law, and my
university was in Dijon, and Dijon which
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is in Burgundy famous for its mustad, among other things, and the cassis.
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And I met my wife Katherine at
that and she was from Bone,
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and you know, members of her
family were in the wine business, and
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she took me to visit some of
his friends and some of his parents' friends.
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So in a way I got some
very nice introduction tasting some very serious
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wines. I knew nothing about this
wine, but you know where she contributed
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to my education, and this was
fun. I fell in love with her,
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but I also fell in love with
Burgundy. And we said to each
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other at the time when we decided
to partner for life, we said,
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I mean, one day, one
day we we will be making our own
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wine in Burgundy. And this was
sounding like a ridiculous promise or a crazy
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dream, because we had no no
stake at all in Vignyalls. Our families
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did an own vineyards, and anyway, we had plan also to develop our
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own carrie on our own life away
from viticulture. But this is something we
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told each other when we when we
met and when we fell in love,
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that we say, okay, one
day we'll make our wine. So in
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fact, it took us probably more
than thirty years to come back to our
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original dream. I love that,
that's a dream. And you grew up,
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to be specific, in sant Etienne, which is in southwest of Leone.
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It was known for its textiles in
its day as a manufacturing and I
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love lyone. By the way,
it's so wonderful. But it's wonderful that
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you and Catherine married and formed a
dream. How long have you two been
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married. We married in seventy seven, so you know that's forty six.
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Congratulations, Thanks, congratulations. So
here's what we're curious about. You studied
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agronomy, and you were interested in
even though you grew up in a manufacturing
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city, you were interested in agriculture, agronomy. What brought you to Africa
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where you actually served in the French
government in Africa for a number of years.
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We found that fascinating. Yes,
in fact, since I graduated in
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agronomy, we have that system in
France. We had that system in France
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like you have in the US,
a kind of piscope organization, and rather
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than serving in the army, I
could serve a bit longer in a country.
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What we call third world countries.
So for me, I was attracted
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by this, and Katherine as well. She was excited by that ivy that
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we could serve for a couple of
years in a country where we could eventually
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contribute to to the local people and
to the local agriculture. And so we
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went to a country which was a
former Portuguese colony, very called Guinea Bissau,
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very south of Senegal, north of
Ivoya coast, and very poor country
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which had been literally destroyed by the
independence war for seven eight years. So
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the country was in very poor condition. The people were not starving because the
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weather was allowing them to grow their
food, but people were suffering a lot,
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and we were there to help them
restructure a bit their agriculture. And
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it has been a fascinating human experience. On the technical side, you know,
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it was it was very primitive,
It was very difficult. It was
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I mean, we we had electricity
once a week. We we had running
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water from time to time, but
not every day. So so it was
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a kind of very uncomfortable and challenging
mission. But on the human side,
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it was absolutely fulfilling because you know, you were helping people who were very
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grateful and very eager to learn from
you. But on the other hand,
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you may have done you may have
done some beautiful uh universities and learned a
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lot, but you realize that you
know nothing when when you when you're facing
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their situation. So in fact,
it was a kind of win win situation
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where we were helping them to survive
and they were helping us to to understand
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what is uh what is a very
challenging situation. So in a way this
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was I think I learned more from
them and from from from there, from
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their living condition that I could possibly
have helped them. But on the other
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hand, they were happy that we
were there, bringing, bringing tools,
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bringing food, bringing medicine, bringing
some advice on on on cultivation techniques,
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but a great experience, fastaining experience, a far cry from luxury luxury goods,
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I suppose, was kind of your
next top on your on the train
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journey of your life for many many
years. Because when you have learned to
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survive in these kind of difficult conditions, I think you're you're you're in a
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good shape. Then to learn other
things and and and to give two set
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priorities in your life. So we
referenced the many notable companies that you served
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Seagram, you were a CEO of
Barton, Gustier and Bordeaux, and then
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CEO of Mom and Perry's Uet Champagne, and then you join in LVMH and
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you over saw the acquisition of several
luxury brands and wine and fashion. We
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mentioned Crew, we mentioned Bulgary,
and you really had the ear of CEO
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and Bernard Arnaut. I mean,
it's amazing, this vast career considering how
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large and impactful that company is today. You know, luxury goods and marketing
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have appeal. They seem to have
a timeless appeal even in economic ups and
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downs. We're wondering what your thoughts
are on that, and especially visa v
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Wine because now you're making wine in
a very special area of Burgundy. Well
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Burgundy in general is considered, you
know, like the Golden Ring of wines,
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along with Bordeaux. What is it
about these products and luxury that just
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seems to you know, no matter
what's going on, are still buying and
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warning. I think the key,
I mean the key to succeed in the
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luxury industry or in the wine industry
as well, which have some serious similarities,
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is the quality if the quality is
there. If then I would not
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say this is easy, because quality
is a discipline that you need to exercise
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in every step of your activity,
from the creation to the product, from
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the sourcing of the raw material to
the creation of the product, to the
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wine making, to the advance to
the to the service to the customer.
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But the key is is a kind
of endless quest for excellence, for quality
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and making sure that you never forget
that you will fail if if there is
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a shortcut on quality or if there
is something missing. But before jumping to
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luxury, you know things. As
as we are talking, I want to
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tell you what has been also one
of my greatest learning experience in life and
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probably the reason why I I also
was able to succeed in luxury. After
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Africa, I had the chance to
work for so PEXA and for which was
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called Food and Wine from France at
the time uh and I was appointed to
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take charge of the of the US
and the US market in the we were
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in the very early eighties was was
booming for for French wines period, French
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food, French chefs, so there
was there was an amazing trend on this
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and my big chance has been that
I've been able to work very closely with
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American professional at the time, and
a few things which we are fascinating for
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me. First, in America,
regardless of your age, as long as
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you wish to work hard, you're
able to work closely with amazing people,
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very talented people much more senior than
you are, and there is no barrier,
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there is no frontier. And I
was, to me, the greatest
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chance was to be able to meet
some great professionals in the US, were
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very successful importers, retailers, chefs, people in marketing and advertising. You
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know, I was, I was
a young kid. I mean I was,
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I was not even thirty years old. And I was able to meet
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some of the great greatest genius in
advertising in America. You know, people
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like Bill Burnback or George Lewis or
Bill Tregos, which were leading three of
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the leading agencies in New York.
And these guys were genius. And I
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was having coffee at seven o'clock in
the morning in the office, having a
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chat, and I was the young
French guy. They liked me and they
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were opening their science to me.
And I was able to work very I
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mean to learn a lot from all
these American creative people. On the other
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hands, I was also very happy, too, very lucky to meet people
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at Seagram like you. I'm sure
you remember one of the legends of Seagram,
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mister Absimon ab Simon, was the
chairman of Seagram Chateauna Estate, importing
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the finest wine from France. And
I was like my grandfather. I mean,
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he he liked what I was doing. He was telling me that I
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was useful for the industry, which
was very kind of him. And he
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gave me some wonderful advice, introduced
me to wonderful people who are still running
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big companies today in the US.
And and I learned, you know,
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with all these American legends, I
learned a lot. And I learned also
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to be efficient. The key was
be efficient in what you do. And
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I think this is the American way
of doing things, which I learned from
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you guys. And I think this
helped me a lot to succeed in my
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corporate career. After I was the
best advice I knew. I knew edgars,
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I knew a lot of the people
are past me across actually because I
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was living in New York in the
eighties, and that really was the great
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culinary revolution. It was the American
culinary revolution, but everybody liked France.
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What was the best advice I gave
you? You know, he was first.
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He was someone extremely generous, extremely
demanding, but extremely generous. And
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I remember I went with him visiting
some important restaurantors in so many years and
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what he I mean, I think
he teached me how you can be kind
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and demanding because he was someone extremely
kind to people, to his customers and
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to his teams as well. But
he was raised. He had very high
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standout in terms of ethics and execution. So you can be in your professional
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life, you can be very demanding, but you can be also extremely kind
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to people, respect people. I
mean, besides the fact that you need
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to know your product, you need
to know your industry, you need you
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need to master or a number of
competencies. But yes, you can be
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a gentleman and you can be demanding. That was absigmon. You really work
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with some of the great philip It's
pretty amazing in that time in the United
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States. I'm sure was very valuable
when you went back to France, and
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because you had a lot of intelligence, because everybody wants to try to figure
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out how to market to the United
States. They still do it the major
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most important export market, and even
today we get it asked all the time,
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even even today. And and in
fact this is Absigmon who proposed me
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after years of Spixar. He proposed
me to join a Ciagram first to run
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a BNG battle and they wanted to
have I think they wanted to have a
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management whom they can trust as well
as someone who ideally would be French.
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So I was in a way,
I was clicking the different cars as we
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say, I mean I was French. They knew me, and they first
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trusted me enough to ask me to
to to run one of their companies,
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and and then it went. They
they were so happy with the job I
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did in Bordo that they told me
that Philip, we we need your help
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in champagne. And I was dreaming
of running a champagne company at that time.
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So they asked me to to run
a movement persuet. And again you
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know, was was pushing me on
on on this and I was. I
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was really thrilled by taking the helm
of these two champagne houses after I after
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a few years, as you know, Seagram went through some re engineering they
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focused on wine and spirit diminished.
They went into media entertainment, orange juice,
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whatever, and I felt the company
was losing focus and at this time
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was has been calling me to to
join the LVMH table, which at the
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time was much smaller, and obviously
I was tempted and I joined him to
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run a verve clicko and we had
I remember, my experience in the US
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helped me trem endlessly to understand the
market and to succeed with a great team
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on a birth including the lady who
was running our business in the US,
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Mira Giuliano, which was really a
tremendous asset for for for the group.
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She's a force. We interviewed her
the first year of the show. She
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is a total force. And you
know, just to think about when you
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join LVMH, where it was and
where it is now, and it's a
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world leader in luxury goods and fine
wines and spirits and it just keeps going
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and going and going. I mean, reading the recent Wine Spectator article,
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I was like, well, you
know, dream dream, but then you
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retired, but you didn't really retire, right, Yeah, you know,
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we had uh first before retiring.
We were we were able with my wife
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to h to spot a small estate
in Burgundy which needed a lot of love
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and care, and we said,
we said ourself, okay, this is
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an opportunity for us to maybe to
leave our dream, but to leave it
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on the side, as I was
a weekend wine maker and a weekend farmer.
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But then after a few years,
we realized that if we wanted to
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do things the right way, we
needed more time. We also found out
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that maybe maybe by comparing what I
was doing on the corporate side and comparing
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that I had to do what I
had, which I had to learn as
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a new Viney Rome. Putting things
in perspective, I said, maybe it's
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better to focus on my viney home
mission now when I still have some energy
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at fifty four. Yea, yeah, I was fifty four, and we
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say, okay, maybe maybe we
should focus on that. And after all,
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I had the best years of the
corporate world, you know, growing
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up with Seagram and then twenty years
with fascinating years with the LVMH. After
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all we had our best years,
and maybe I should use my energy now
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on our small family project. So
I had the opportunity to retire, as
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we say, and it was it
was it was a good time because we
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still had the energy and and because
being a vin your own you need you
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need a lot of energy, not
only I mean mentally, but physically and
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altho. So it was it was, it was a good time. The
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kids we were had grown up.
They were starting their own family in different
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parts of the world. Also,
we consider that we could we could have
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another mission. Uh. And it's
when you start that it's a bit difficult
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at the beginning because you you know, you you were used, you were
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used to to have a lot of
help, a lot of means, a
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lot of support, big teams,
a lot of talented people around you.
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The logistics were quite easy in the
corporate well if I remember well, and
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then you start and we were in
our house in Burgundy. We had to
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buy our first computer. We had
to do everything by ourselves. I needed
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to find a local accountant to help
us, so I had to start again
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with a local banker. So you
know, we we had to do everything
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by by ourselves and looking for help
here and there, but without the big,
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the big logistical support of a group. So you you wake up in
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the morning with a bit of anxiety
on what are you going to achieve?
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And you end up the day extremely
tired, exhausted because you had a long
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day doing so many different things which
are far away from your former management life.
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We're smiling because we go through that
all the time, having having had
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a worker company and now much smaller
business. You know, Philip, it
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kind of sounds like my father's journey
who he was a director of marketing for
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IBM for many, many years and
decided to give it all up and go
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buy a winery in upstate New York. Really yeah, so, I so
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you're milliare with the situation so so
so we know your trials and tribulations that
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you've been through firsthand, that's for
sure. So Philip, the the farm
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that you bought is Domain de seller
Amant, which is in the coach Shalony,
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specifically in the town of JV.
Why don't you tell us about the
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domain and it a little bit of
its history because it actually dates back nine
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hundred years nine hundred years soon soon
in a few years. The Yeah,
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when when we were looking for a
place with scheduling to start our wine journey,
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we were looking in Burgundy. We
wanted to We're always attracted by the
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great Tehroirs and the history behind it. And we also were looking for a
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place where we would live and you
know, all the family, the kids,
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the grandkids, and so the the
the brief for the project was was
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a bit ambitious, and after we
looked for for many years. We were
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looking around very discreetly, because we
need to be discreet in order to have
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a successful hunting. So we looked
around, we saw a few things,
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and we dropped, and then we
started again. And then one day we
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we through through a friend, we
had the information that the Celio One,
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that all cellar built by the monks
almost nine centuries ago, was for sale,
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together with its vineyards. But both
the vineyards and on the buildings were
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in poor shape. But oh god, when we visited at first sight,
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we fell in love. We fell
in love with the first with the spot,
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because the location was absolutely superb.
Facing south, remote from the village,
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from the city of Jevree, overlooking
all the area, we could feel
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the history, I mean, all
those nine centuries of history were there,
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even if everything was was in bad
shape, and there was I would say
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even a bit more which something more
which attracted which was the fact that it
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had been run by monks for many
centuries, in fact, seven centuries until
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French Revolution. And and we we
kind of like that environment, which was
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both historical and a bit mystical.
We we could, I mean, we
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immediately imagine what had been the life
there in the Middle Age. And there
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was nothing written about the history of
the place. There was there were little
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pieces here and there, but but
nothing has been searched really seriously. But
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we saw the potential and we say, we love this place. We want
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to give it back its former glory. We think it's going to be a
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great place to work in, a
great place to live with a family,
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a great place to us to the
grandkids when they will grow up. And
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and and that was it. I
mean, it took us one hour literally
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to decide, without the business plan, without any idea on what we will
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be doing. We say, this
is it. There's the vignard, there
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is the house, there is the
cellar, there is the history, and
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and there is the fact that here
the monks have been working and praying for
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so many centuries. So let's let's
let's do that. So we embarked on
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this is having done no no,
but jet all our forecast and the improved
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to be wrong. We had to
work harder and longer than we suppose initially.
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But let me tell you it has
been a fantastic journey because today the
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place is alive and doing well,
and I think the place is safe for
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at least the next two or three
centuries. So we feel good about our
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mission. Well, it's I love
the fact that you went from probably doing
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lots of swat analysis and corporate life
to a passion a passionate project with no
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plan. Just you wanted to have
a winery. I just love that juxtaposition.
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You and Catherine acquired domain ducla On
one in two thousand and four,
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and in two thousand and eight you
and your winemaker Guillo Marco started a fairly
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massive replanning project and implemented many changes
to transition the winery, bracing biodynamic and
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gravity cellaring. How do you feel
this what I just briefly touched on these
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initiatives. Share a little bit more
about that and why you feel this is
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so important as you move forward producing
your wines first or on the wine way
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side, we quickly realized that the
former cellar built by the monks was not
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large enough to make an age wine
in bold long enough that the you know,
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in the Middle Age monks were making
wine. They were great viticulturists.
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They were making quickly the wine and
selling the wine bulk very quickly. So
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there was no aging. And the
wine making science at the time was quite
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rustic, so the wine way was
not big enough. It was cold in
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the winter, too warm in the
summer, so to age properly wine was
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well, it was not proper by
today's standards. So that's why we came
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with that idea of a gravity fed
cellar on fall level underground and which which
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is helping us now to make far
better wine. So this is the story
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about the cellar and the fact that
we needed a new tool to work with.
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The other thing is that we also
wanted to do things as as clean
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and as possible for the environment.
And I was, you know, my
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background as an agronomist, as a
scientist, I was quite familiar with the
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role of chemistry, and I knew
the pros and cons of many of the
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techniques used in the modern world,
and I wanted we wanted to do something
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va cling for the environment, a
clean for workers, and also very clan
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for for our family, and very
clean for the consumer as well. So
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I did. I did embark on
that idea of going organic and biodynamic on
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the principle very quickly with Katrine.
However, in order to do that,
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you really need to have a great
team who shares that vision. And that's
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the reason why we ask Gillo Marco
to join us as a viticulturist and a
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winemaker who had experienced in organic and
biodynamic and with Guillo we were able to
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embark on that the environmental journey,
which has been fascinating because we not only
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we knew that what we were doing
was good for the environment and and uh
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and eventually inspiring some of our young
neighbors, but also we knew that it
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was it was helping us to make
far better wines because being organic and biodynamic,
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we have to care more for our
vinyls the way it grows. We
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are much more into an anticipation mode
of cultivation, which help us, I
359
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think, because we anticipate better better. It helped us to grow better grapes
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and to make a better wine.
So all in all, it has been
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a very rewarding journey. You know, a lot of that you drew in
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your agronomous experience, but it also
draws on your luxury goods experience. Because
363
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with luxury goods, because we know
there's many fakes in the roy of wine
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and luxury products and persons, there's
a lot of quality products made for quality
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ingredients, whether it's quality fabric,
the quality engineering, the quality grapes.
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You have to start with that and
remain committed to it. And that,
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as you know, in all wonderful
products, takes a lot of time and
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care and detail. You can't make
it. You can't make it unless you
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fake it. You can't fake it
to make it. In this business,
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and particularly when it's fine wines and
find goods, Coach shelonise is kind of
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interesting. It's you know, it's
further south than the Code door. The
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Cote Door is known for these very
expensive UH premiere and chronic clue wines.
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You do have premier clue wines that
you make outside of Coach Shelons as well.
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But what what about this area UH
is appealing and why should everyone listening
375
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to the show be thinking about trying
the wines from this area? And you
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can hear some of yours. So
the first the reason why we gain to
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this area, it's because I think
after having explored many other opportunities in Court,
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Dubon or Denui. It was obvious
that it was out of reach financially.
379
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First there was almost nothing for sale
and whatever was coming for sale was
380
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just tragious in terms of price.
Then we discovered that beautiful Celiohman spot in
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Jevree, and not only we we
were able to afford it because the coals
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was more affordable at the time it
still is, but also because that spot
383
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was was really so attractive for that
historical reason, the monks, the architecture,
384
00:37:47.840 --> 00:37:52.599
the location, et cetera. Coming
back to Coches, it's true that
385
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this is a region which is developing
very well, which is still providing some
386
00:38:04.519 --> 00:38:08.880
great values. I mean, if
we look at price compared to some of
387
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could the Bone or could the New
Grand Crew? For sure, there is
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00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:22.360
no ground crew in challenges, there
are prob but yes, the the the
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price is still affordable. And the
reason why it's amazing to to to realize
390
00:38:30.440 --> 00:38:39.679
why that region is a bit far
behind could the Bone and could? You
391
00:38:39.760 --> 00:38:47.280
have to remember we had Felix RR
which destroyed the vineyards in France at the
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end of the nineteenth century and beginning
of the twentieth century. So beginning of
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twentieth century. You have also World
War One, and you have the combination
394
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of philoxera and World War One on
the viticulture, on the wine industry and
395
00:39:10.360 --> 00:39:20.039
in many young men died during World
War One and after World War One was
396
00:39:20.079 --> 00:39:27.440
over, so we are in nineteen
nineteen twenty, there is a lot of
397
00:39:27.519 --> 00:39:30.920
vigneyard to be replanted in Coude,
Duble and cout the US. All the
398
00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:37.039
young men who came back from war
worked very hard in the in the family
399
00:39:37.159 --> 00:39:43.920
estates to replant and to grow back
the industry which was soon very flourishing in
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00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:50.840
Cochalonnaise. In fact, there was
a new industry emerging not too far in
401
00:39:51.840 --> 00:39:59.320
a place called lu Croso and Monsault
Lemin, which were an area which is
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00:39:59.519 --> 00:40:05.559
thirty min from Jivree and Mercury,
which is a place where there was a
403
00:40:05.599 --> 00:40:12.559
lot of mining industry as well as
still industry. So mining and still was
404
00:40:12.920 --> 00:40:16.199
after World War One, very big
industry. It was very attractive. It
405
00:40:16.400 --> 00:40:22.440
needed the manpower, it needed the
workforce. So a lot of young men
406
00:40:23.599 --> 00:40:28.480
coming back from World War One,
the few, the lucky one we are
407
00:40:28.480 --> 00:40:32.159
coming back from World War one,
were attracted to get a job in these
408
00:40:32.320 --> 00:40:40.000
minds or in the big steel manufacturer, and they were making there better living
409
00:40:40.119 --> 00:40:47.679
than being a vigni. So they
were filling their family. And in Kochs
410
00:40:50.239 --> 00:40:55.719
they were really short on manpower to
replant after Filoxea. And what happened that
411
00:40:55.880 --> 00:41:04.440
they replanted mostly the the lower vineyards
close to the village, and in a
412
00:41:04.480 --> 00:41:09.719
way they neglected some of the slopes, some of the best slopes on which
413
00:41:09.760 --> 00:41:16.880
you add some of the most interesting
crew classified crew. So in a whey,
414
00:41:16.920 --> 00:41:23.039
the viticulture changed. It became a
viticultuur more driven on volume I yield.
415
00:41:25.079 --> 00:41:32.480
And here we are talking about World
War two and until the nineteen sixty
416
00:41:32.599 --> 00:41:39.719
seventy and that difficulture and culturalness was
really driven more on the volume and I
417
00:41:40.079 --> 00:41:45.360
yield, I yield in the flat
area rather than on the slope like in
418
00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:52.519
Couldubon and could do so in a
way that impacted the old economy, the
419
00:41:52.559 --> 00:42:00.320
old business model. And it's not
until I would say the yeah, the
420
00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:08.119
late seventies early eighty that cultural started
to rediscover its greatest theerroir, and started
421
00:42:08.159 --> 00:42:16.960
to replant the greatest seroa with fine
pinon noir and fine shandone a bit less
422
00:42:17.039 --> 00:42:22.800
less productive, but higher quality.
So I'm just mentioning this because in terms
423
00:42:22.800 --> 00:42:30.159
of geology, in terms of geography, in terms of history, the region,
424
00:42:31.079 --> 00:42:36.760
I mean when it was in the
Middle Age or with the Sisters Monks
425
00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:43.920
until the French Revolution, the cultural
was as prosperous as the could double and
426
00:42:43.960 --> 00:42:47.039
could then. And it's really after
World War One and Filix Cera that,
427
00:42:47.480 --> 00:42:52.519
as I mentioned to you, there
was that impact on the region. So
428
00:42:52.599 --> 00:42:58.519
now the region is catching up a
bit. And not to say that it's
429
00:42:58.559 --> 00:43:01.719
going to reach create surprized, because
this is not the objective, which was
430
00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:07.719
just to explain why why the dynamics
in the recent dynamics in has been a
431
00:43:07.719 --> 00:43:15.679
bit different than what you what you
know about. And it's really interesting when
432
00:43:15.719 --> 00:43:19.519
we go out, I mean it's
really when we dine out, finding a
433
00:43:19.559 --> 00:43:22.000
Burgundy is usually out of our price
range. We had we we had a
434
00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:27.239
wonderful them from a curry recently at
ben Wy and we've got your You have
435
00:43:27.679 --> 00:43:32.719
some beautiful wines here from domain U
do sele On one. We have in
436
00:43:32.719 --> 00:43:37.679
front of us, the Montaigni and
the Les Dessus. We've already had a
437
00:43:37.679 --> 00:43:42.679
few. We had all from the
city. Yes, you know we had
438
00:43:42.679 --> 00:43:45.440
the we had a beautiful allegote that
we were sent to try from you as
439
00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:50.280
well, and interesting Melennius. Those
vineyards were planted just after World War Two,
440
00:43:50.599 --> 00:43:52.800
in nineteen forty exactly, and it
was just an It was an amazing
441
00:43:52.840 --> 00:43:55.840
bottle of all. I don't think
I've had one like it history. We
442
00:43:55.880 --> 00:44:01.320
do want to make sure we include
in touch on also your expansion into Boujelat,
443
00:44:01.440 --> 00:44:07.159
because we have moms of time and
you are producing Bouselet clue to be
444
00:44:07.280 --> 00:44:12.400
very specific, which we love.
As you know, we had a history
445
00:44:12.440 --> 00:44:16.760
working with Boujelet producers over the years. What why did you decide to expand
446
00:44:16.840 --> 00:44:24.760
into this area and tell us what
you're producing their mont So first I had
447
00:44:25.280 --> 00:44:30.559
I would say I had a love
affair with from My from My so pixis
448
00:44:30.599 --> 00:44:36.480
in the US, because we we
were doing a lot with the producers at
449
00:44:36.480 --> 00:44:40.480
the time, all those great characters
coming once. So you're for a big
450
00:44:40.519 --> 00:44:47.239
bouchet At blitz. Sorry, and
uh, we we have many friends in
451
00:44:47.239 --> 00:44:54.119
common that were quite instrumental in the
success of So. I had that very
452
00:44:54.159 --> 00:44:58.960
good feeling about the region and the
people. And then I wanted with g
453
00:45:00.519 --> 00:45:05.559
who is my right hand man.
Here is a young talented wine maker.
454
00:45:06.719 --> 00:45:10.679
We we I wanted to you know, I always like to work with a
455
00:45:10.719 --> 00:45:16.280
young entrepreneur, and I think my
role at my age also is to help
456
00:45:16.719 --> 00:45:23.159
the new generation to to succeed.
So I had that plan with Gillum to
457
00:45:23.960 --> 00:45:30.599
start a new company in which it
would be involved, and we were scouting
458
00:45:30.679 --> 00:45:34.800
around Givre. We said, okay, we need to stay at max at
459
00:45:34.800 --> 00:45:38.480
one hour drive from Givre in order
not to stretch ourselves to to thin.
460
00:45:39.199 --> 00:45:43.679
So where do you want to make
a great right wine? And told me,
461
00:45:44.320 --> 00:45:47.000
you know, I'd love to make
a great wine with why don't we
462
00:45:47.079 --> 00:45:58.320
try Bojore. So obviously we went
south rather than not because so forget it.
463
00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:06.280
So we were we were lucky to
find again history repeat repeats itself with
464
00:46:06.440 --> 00:46:12.639
gill Home. We spent two years
visiting the and one day we found that
465
00:46:12.760 --> 00:46:21.280
slope called Busse in Juliana. And
it happened that a couple of vignos were
466
00:46:21.320 --> 00:46:27.800
retiring and selling their their plots on
that hill, and we were able to
467
00:46:27.800 --> 00:46:32.119
buy at the end four of them
to make a bigger plot on that iel
468
00:46:32.159 --> 00:46:39.880
of Busse and to start our our
love story with Juliana, which is probably
469
00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:45.159
not the most well known crew of
so the we know, the awareness of
470
00:46:45.239 --> 00:46:55.719
Juliana is is behind one of uh
and but it's fine. At least we
471
00:46:55.800 --> 00:47:00.320
are starting. We have a mission
there to make Juliana, to put you
472
00:47:00.400 --> 00:47:04.119
know, I on the map.
But we we fell in love with the
473
00:47:04.159 --> 00:47:09.760
Tehuan. So there there was no
monks, there was no abbey, there
474
00:47:09.840 --> 00:47:15.239
was no existing building. There was
just the fact that it was a great
475
00:47:15.280 --> 00:47:22.079
taehoir in Julian r and and we
thought that that would be the perfect spot
476
00:47:22.559 --> 00:47:27.199
with again a lot of replanting,
building a new celler on top of the
477
00:47:27.280 --> 00:47:37.320
hill. And and and uh our
first vintage we made it in what you
478
00:47:37.559 --> 00:47:44.760
would call a garage in California,
you know, in the shack. And
479
00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:50.079
that was our first vintage. But
we were very happy with it, uh
480
00:47:50.280 --> 00:47:53.480
and and we literally did it,
you know, with our four hands,
481
00:47:54.000 --> 00:48:00.559
human mind and and and uh and
working at night there when the day was
482
00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:06.760
over in jewry. And today we
have built a cellar which is overlooking the
483
00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:10.000
village of Juliana on the hills of
Boujelais. And we even see the Monblaw
484
00:48:10.079 --> 00:48:14.639
from the winery, which is one
hundred miles away, on hundred and twenty
485
00:48:14.679 --> 00:48:20.360
miles away. So it's a beautiful
location, beautiful Trois, and I do
486
00:48:20.400 --> 00:48:27.039
feel that you know the history of
the states. I do feel that we
487
00:48:27.400 --> 00:48:30.960
can we can really write a new
chapter on the crude bouchelais, which are
488
00:48:31.840 --> 00:48:39.559
splendid wines. And in between the
two wars in I read a lot about
489
00:48:39.840 --> 00:48:46.400
what was happening in Paris and in
Paris restaurant, the great crude Boujelais were
490
00:48:46.440 --> 00:48:55.360
really on par with some of the
greatest crew of Burgundy. So I think
491
00:48:55.440 --> 00:49:06.719
the bourgelat Nur chapter I've been probably
shadowing a bit the uh the great merits
492
00:49:06.760 --> 00:49:12.239
of Uh of Gamet on great deal, and I think this is the time
493
00:49:12.320 --> 00:49:19.360
now to open that chapter on Bourget. I'm extremely positive about the potential and
494
00:49:19.519 --> 00:49:22.239
when we see the wine, when
I mean I've been tasting wine from so
495
00:49:22.280 --> 00:49:30.199
many producers, young producers who are
also more more involved with organic farming,
496
00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:36.880
I think we were. This is
a new chapter opening on on rediscovering these
497
00:49:37.000 --> 00:49:43.880
uh, these French. Well,
we agree because beaujelt Clue or the gems
498
00:49:44.320 --> 00:49:49.639
the jewels of Beaugelats we tasted.
You're Juliana from domain Mont Basset and we
499
00:49:49.719 --> 00:49:53.599
have a Mulanavan, which are you
know mulan Van is a bit more well
500
00:49:53.639 --> 00:49:59.800
known. It's a it's a heartier
Beaujelt. They have this amazing granite stone
501
00:50:00.039 --> 00:50:05.159
blue stone there was. They are
the best of the best of the region
502
00:50:05.199 --> 00:50:09.360
they're in. And I think again
going back to everything you've done in your
503
00:50:09.440 --> 00:50:14.039
life, combining the land and luxury, you go for the best of the
504
00:50:14.039 --> 00:50:20.000
best in what you're doing. No
matter what you're doing, the only thing
505
00:50:20.039 --> 00:50:23.639
is that finding the best is one
thing. Then after you need to work
506
00:50:23.639 --> 00:50:29.119
out to make it the best possible. So that's true. Well, it's
507
00:50:29.159 --> 00:50:34.920
a it's a key ingredient to stop. But then the hard works, I
508
00:50:34.960 --> 00:50:38.840
mean, the hard work is still
to be done. But this is what
509
00:50:39.360 --> 00:50:44.800
I mean what is fun in life? I mean issue working out in order
510
00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:53.119
to to make something potentially great is
very fulfilling. Well, Philip A.
511
00:50:53.199 --> 00:50:57.480
Scaul, We've enjoyed speaking with you, you know, and listening to you.
512
00:50:57.800 --> 00:51:01.119
We feel like you're a you're a
your own brand of wine with many
513
00:51:01.119 --> 00:51:07.039
great vintages to come. Uh.
You know, you've you've reinvented from you
514
00:51:07.079 --> 00:51:12.719
know, corporate from from someone working
in Africa, serving serving the Third World,
515
00:51:12.800 --> 00:51:16.559
to working in America really becoming a
French Wine of food marketing expert,
516
00:51:16.679 --> 00:51:20.840
to going into the high end luxury
corporate world and going back to where you
517
00:51:21.039 --> 00:51:23.159
wanted to be in the first place, was the land. Uh. It's
518
00:51:23.199 --> 00:51:30.000
it's great to see you and Catherine
and your entire family involved in not reinventing,
519
00:51:30.079 --> 00:51:37.000
but in re embracing the land.
Uh the way you are both at
520
00:51:37.639 --> 00:51:43.039
u Domain Ducille Ajan and Domain Montbasse. We we hope to visit you soon
521
00:51:43.199 --> 00:51:47.159
and also doing your part to elevate
regions, yes, Wine that that have
522
00:51:47.719 --> 00:51:52.079
kind of languished at times exactly.
I mean you pointed that out with historically
523
00:51:52.119 --> 00:51:59.039
they have languished, and they deserve
attention because they're still approachable and affordable to
524
00:51:59.119 --> 00:52:04.239
many who want the ass of a
certain class an area. This is great
525
00:52:04.280 --> 00:52:09.519
pleasure, very fulfilling. And also
when your neighbors and your so called competitors,
526
00:52:10.760 --> 00:52:16.239
I mean you have been a newcomer
or relatively newcomer. At least your
527
00:52:16.360 --> 00:52:22.360
your great grandfather or your grandfather and
your father are not buried in the local
528
00:52:22.440 --> 00:52:25.159
cemetery, so you you're your foreigners
and they say, hey, you're doing
529
00:52:25.199 --> 00:52:30.239
a good job for the region.
We're happy that you have done that.
530
00:52:30.320 --> 00:52:35.320
You have resurrected the Celio one which
was which was becoming a ruin. So
531
00:52:36.239 --> 00:52:40.719
and they they recognize that putting some
light on Jeevree and putting some light on
532
00:52:40.800 --> 00:52:46.239
Julina is they appreciate that, and
they tell you, they tell it to
533
00:52:46.320 --> 00:52:50.360
you, and this is also,
uh, this is nice to you.
534
00:52:51.880 --> 00:52:53.880
It's very nice to hear, and
it's very nice to know that you're doing
535
00:52:53.920 --> 00:52:59.920
something good for the region. We
have so enjoyed speaking with you today on
536
00:53:00.119 --> 00:53:05.480
Connected Table, Philippe Pascal. Next
up will be visiting you in France.
537
00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:07.800
Until then, we raise a glass
of your wine and give you a toast
538
00:53:07.840 --> 00:53:13.800
to all you've accomplished in the industry
and what an amazing story. I'm stowing
539
00:53:13.840 --> 00:53:22.840
some special bottles for you Millennium.
David, absolutely all right, Thank you
540
00:53:22.920 --> 00:53:25.960
so much for joining us and to
Connect the Table live. We hope that
541
00:53:27.239 --> 00:53:31.039
all of our listeners have enjoyed our
discussion with Phelippe Pascal, and we encourage
542
00:53:31.039 --> 00:53:36.840
you to keep trying, keep traveling, keep tasting, and always stay insatiably
543
00:53:36.880 --> 00:53:46.039
curious. Thank you.