From Capitalist Grind to Creative Freedom featuring Nora Rahimian

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I'm TJ Walsh and you're listening to the Bold Creative Collective podcast.
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Take a front row seat to hear conversations with successful musicians, producers, actors,
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visual artists, designers, directors, marketers, and more, and learn about their perspectives
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and approach to leadership, creativity, innovation, and growth.
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Let's dive in.
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Hey, everybody.
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I'm so excited.
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Hey, everybody.
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I'm so excited to be here today with Nora Rahimian.
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And I have been looking forward to this conversation for a long time, everybody, because Nora
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brings such a interesting and important and powerful perspective on being an artist, being
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a creator in today's world, in a world that is really complex and complicated.
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And challenging us as individuals, as people, to think differently and to challenge the
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status quo of what we've been told is the way to do things or told this is the only
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way to do it.
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This is what you need to expect.
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And so I'm really excited to have this conversation.
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But before we get going, I'd love for them to introduce themselves and bring us up to
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speed about who they are.
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So Nora, welcome.
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Why don't you give us a little bit of an idea of who you are and what you're all about?
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Yeah.
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You know, what's interesting is that you're asking me this question, and I know I'm supposed
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to be like, I'm an anti-capitalist business coach, and I'm from the hip hop festival,
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and I run Culture Fix, which is a global network of artists who do social impact work.
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But that's not who I am and what I'm about.
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Who I am and what I'm about is overthrowing the systems of harm that we are all trying
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to survive.
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I'm all about community and culture.
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So for me, everything that I do is a means to that end.
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So it's just interesting because I was so ready to give you the answer.
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And then I was like, wait, but I think it's also such an introduction to the conversation
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we're about to have.
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But yeah, I am an anti-capitalist business coach.
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I produce a hip hop festival.
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I run Culture Fix, which is this global network of artists doing incredible things around
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the world while trying to make the world a better place.
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I have a YouTube channel that's full of practical advice for independent artists.
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And so really everything, you know, I take on a bunch of projects, but everything that
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I do is at this intersection of creativity and social impact and entrepreneurship and
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the of making the world a better place for all of us where we can just create and be
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artists and do the things that we want to do.
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And do the things that we want to do and that we were created to do.
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You know, I think that that reframe or that little pause that you just had there about
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wait a second, how am I going to answer that question is, like you said, a good introduction
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even to the type of conversation that we want to have.
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Because so often times that's how these conversations start, right?
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In our society, it's like, who are you and what are you about automatically means like,
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what are you doing?
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What's your job?
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What are you putting out there?
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What are you like producing?
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And you stopped.
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And of course you have that stuff that you just listed out and all of it sounds really
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amazing, but you said, but really the purpose of who I am and what I'm about is to make
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the world a better place to challenge the structures that have been in existence for
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so long and have become increasingly a disservice to all of us.
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And that is really, really kind of what you're about.
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Something that you do then is just an outpouring or a branch of that larger purpose.
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Can you just to set the stage for people who are listening to this who might be new to
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some of the some of the ideas that you're bringing.
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Can you set the stage for them and for all of us really just so we're all starting at
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the same place?
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Like what it means to be anti-capitalist in business or entrepreneurship and how that
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is different than being in the regular flow of stuff.
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Right.
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So anti-capitalism does not mean that you don't get paid and it does not mean that we
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can't have nice things.
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It means which are the two like biggest, you know, misconceptions.
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If I do this, am I going to be like poor all of a sudden or am I going to be like, yeah,
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not able to make ends meet?
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That's not what it's about.
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It's not what it's about.
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It's actually the opposite of that.
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It means that we are all compensated fairly for our labor, whether that's physical or
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emotional or intellectual or creative.
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So it's also expanding our ideas of what work and productivity and labor look like.
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You know, for many of us, we do like caregiving work or we do creative work and that's not
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considered work.
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And so here you are at the end of the day.
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You've done all these things.
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You're exhausted and you're like, oh, but I didn't do anything today.
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What?
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So much later.
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You took care of the kid.
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You checked on an elder.
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You showed up for your community.
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You made some art.
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You cleaned your house, right?
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Like all these things.
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And so the anti-capitalism is really about looking at the entire system and the big picture
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in which we operate and realizing that there's just different ways of doing it where the
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things that we've normalized, right?
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Grind, hustle, inequality, that those things don't have to be that way and that there's
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other ways of doing it where we still get our needs met, where we still can have nice
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things, you know, we can still indulge, but you treat people well in that process and
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you treat yourself well in that process, right?
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You are a human and not a robot for productivity.
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That our life is not productivity.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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You're speaking to my soul right now because, you know, obviously, you know, if you're, if
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anyone's watching the video part of this, like I'm a white cis-presenting guy, right?
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And it's been like drilled into me that, you know, my worth is what I produce and how I
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provide and, you know, yada, yada, yada, right?
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And like, I'm so tired all of the time and the work that I do is very others' focus,
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but I'm always like, how can I do more of it?
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I need to do more of it.
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I'm not being productive enough.
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I'm not being, I'm not making enough money.
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I'm falling behind.
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What about this person over here who is like, who looks like they're making all of this
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more stuff, more money than I am, right?
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And like, I always feel like I'm out of breath.
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And the artist side of me, who's a, I'm a painter and I'm a maker and that way.
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And I don't feel like I ever have enough left to actually do that.
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And that was my first calling, right, as a person is to be an artist.
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And at the end of the day, after I'm done showing up for everybody else and, you know,
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showing up and working, contributing to the, to the workforce, like I, I have people on
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a, on a staff too, right?
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I'm like, I'm so tired.
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What is, what is the point of all of this?
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And how can I possibly get upstairs to the studio?
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Right, well, and you, you said something about like, I can work, work, work, and then I start
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to compare myself to other people.
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And then I feel like I've got to go to work, work, work, work more.
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And another piece of like white supremacist patriarchal capitalism is in competition with
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one another.
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And especially as creatives, I think oftentimes we think that there can only be one superstar,
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one icon, you know, and the reality is we're not in competition with each other.
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And so if you give yourself permission to focus on your relationship first with yourself,
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second with your art, and third with your fans and your audience in that, then other
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creatives become allies, collaborators, partners, you know, co-conspirators, whatever you want
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to call them.
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And then there's a way that we can win together because this, if we're pitting ourselves against
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each other and we're thinking that there's only such a small, you know, like small, what
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is it that barrel of crabs mentality?
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Yeah.
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That takes a lot of energy.
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And so that's another piece of the anti-capitalism is that we're actually all in support and
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community with each other.
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And we make better art that way.
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We reach more, you know, more fans that way.
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We grow bigger.
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We have more resources.
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Right.
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And so really pushing back against that competition piece can be really helpful.
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Yeah.
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I see the competition piece in so many different corners of the world that I operate in.
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One of the areas that I operate in is within the mental health and therapeutic space with
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private practitioners.
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We're not going to get into on this podcast like a whole conversation about the structure
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of healthcare in the United States of America and all of that business.
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But I will mention that in the private practice space, therapists are required to, because
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of the structure and the system that we're in, to have like this business mindset where,
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you know, we need to be attracting clients in order to like maintain our livelihood,
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which is providing therapy to people, providing counseling to folks.
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And one of the things that's really scary right now is big business, right?
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Like the place that everyone buys their stuff from that's named after a florist.
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I don't want to say the name of it.
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But you know, is coming out with like $99 a year, get your get therapy and private practice.
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People are like, one, that's going to be like horrible therapy to, oh my gosh, we're now
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in competition with this giant corporation that's eating everything in its path.
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Plus we're in comp.
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So then because of that, we're also in competition with each other.
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And I try to keep a really kind, I try to keep a really kind of level headed kind of
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mindset about it and that like, I'm not in competition with that guy and his gigantic
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situation over there.
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Like he's going to do what he's going to do and grow whatever and people are going to
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go to him and then, you know, they're going to, you know, get what they need or not.
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And then these other private practitioners that I'm with over here, they're not my competition
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either because we all bring something very unique and special to the space, right?
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We all can't serve or help everybody.
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We're not going to be for everybody.
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And in the same way that that's true in that corner of my universe, it's also true in the
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art corner of my universe, which is my art speaks to, you know, certain people at certain
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times and certain places and it's not going to be for everybody.
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So they have other artists to go to and collaborate with or collect from.
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And I can introduce those people to those artists and we can have this really great
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back and forth relationship and dialogue with one another.
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But it's so easy in our world, Nora, to get sucked into the fear of, oh my gosh, there's
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this big monster out there who's going to eat me up and I'm not going to have anything
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for myself.
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Right.
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Well, and part of that is the more, you know, part of the anti-capitalist perspective
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is to think of people as people, right?
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Like your customers, your audience, they're not robots, they're not dollar signs, right?
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They're people.
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And for better or for worse, one of the things with social media and having so many options
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is that there are a lot of artists and there are a lot of fans and fans get to choose where
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they spend their time, their social capital, their energy.
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And so I think one of the things that we're seeing more of is a hypernishing of artists
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and fan relationships.
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So I can now choose exactly the artist that I want, exactly the music that I can listen
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to, and I can choose where I put that money and my time and my energy and my social capital.
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And so it's if you cultivate the human to human relationship, which is why, you know,
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you're not going to be like, hi, I'm a musician, stream my music.
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You're going to say, hi, I make music.
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I care about dogs and saving the pandas.
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And then now as a fan, I find something emotional to connect with.
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And then the music comes next, right?
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Like if you think about whoever your favorite artist is, I'm sure their music is good.
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But the thing that makes you stand for them is everything else that they stand for and
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represent.
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So, you know, these corporations will be there and we should boycott them and they should
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unionize and they should really be regulated and taken off the face of the planet.
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But until then, until then, we have to figure out a way of.
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And so it's it's trusting that your audience will support you if you show up for your audience
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first.
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Right.
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And so like it's really a relationship of mutuality and leaning into the hypernishing,
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which also then opens up ways of having different revenue streams and different definitions of
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success.
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Yeah.
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Because the big companies, you're counting on like a million followers to make you two
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dollars.
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Well, if you're counting on 10 followers, those 10 followers are going to give you 10
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whole dollars themselves.
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Right.
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So it's just really thinking outside of the conventional box of what you've been told
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success is and trusting that you and your audience can define for yourself what that
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looks and feels like.
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And my theory is that eventually that pushes out those companies that aren't doing anyone
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a service, but they're irrelevant because we're not in competition with them.
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It's about me, the artist and you, my fan and the relationship that we're cultivating
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here.
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Right.
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Right.
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So if you show up for something about, you know, if you show up for your fans first,
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if you show up for your audience first, then they'll show up for you.
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How would you, I mean, and you've been talking about, you know, being relational, building
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an emotional connection with your, with the person that's sitting across from you or whatever.
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So I understand that.
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I guess I'm wondering, is there more to showing up for your fans first so that they then show
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up for you than, than what we've just been talking about?
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Or is that pretty much it?
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I mean, maybe getting into some like that.
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What does it mean to show up?
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Might be helpful.
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Yeah.
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I think that's, that's a good, yeah.
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Hello.
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Yeah.
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What does it mean to show up for these people?
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How do we show up?
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Right.
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And it's things like one, showing bits and pieces of yourself.
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And that doesn't mean you have to like put your personal life on last and like, you know,
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use your baby to get likes.
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But it's, what are the things that make you, you, whether it's, it's sports, whether it's
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art, whatever, and show that, right?
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So that people see a personality because we connect to personality.
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We don't connect to a brand.
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So that's one.
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Two is speaking on the things that your audience is impacted by, which I think a lot of artists
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are like, oh, well, I might alienate fans.
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But that's okay.
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Cause you're not going to, right?
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We've been talking about, you're not going to be for everybody.
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But when you speak up, you're going to the ones who are going to like really show up
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for you are really going to show up for you.
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So speaking on things is two.
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And then three is just showing the process.
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Like as creatives, we do so much work.
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Yeah.
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Then if all your audience sees as the product, well, that's cool.
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But they haven't seen the means of production and all the blood, sweat, tears you put in.
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So making the invisible visible, showing how you record a song or how you're mixing your
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paints or all the like, I don't know if you're woodworking and like how you, I don't, I don't
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know anything about woodworking.
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So you're saying things or like whatever.
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Yeah.
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And after show me, show me that you're studying, show me that you're meeting with a consultant.
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Show me that.
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Everett is because then your audience sees the investment that you're putting in and
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your audience will only be as excited as you are.
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So if you show all the work, then they're going to show up and meet you halfway.
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But it really is, I think a lot of times people think, well, I just did the art, just support
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my art, but it's the other way around.
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You have to earn people's support and you earn it by showing up by being a little vulnerable.
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It's right.
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It's like you're going to build a relationship with someone.
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You got to put yourself out there.
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Yeah.
285
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It's the same thing with art.
286
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So yeah, like one coach that I used, that I worked with called this or something similar
287
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to this, like a no-liking trust factor, right?
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So people need to know you first.
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They need to know that you exist, right?
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Then they need to like you.
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So like they need to get to know like, who is this person?
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Do I like them?
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Like are they someone that I can kind of hang around with?
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And then trust is what they need to be able to like take that relationship further, right?
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Can I trust this person with, you know, whatever it is that I'm coming to them for, that I'm
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hanging around them or for the reasons that I'm hanging around them?
297
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Right?
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So it's really important.
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You don't just automatically show up on someone's screen or on their phone or at some event
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and have their trust and buy in right away necessarily.
301
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Yeah.
302
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,160
Well, and especially if you look at the world that we're living in, right?
303
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Because this is the other piece is you have to understand what your audience is going through.
304
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And really like the question I give my clients is what problem are you solving for them?
305
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What are you offering them that no one else is offering?
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And so in a world where everyone like, there's no housing, there's no healthcare, we're on
307
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the brink of another world.
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There's like, there's all this stuff.
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Now you're asking me in my very limited free time to take a risk on doing, you know, interacting
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with your art that I don't know if I'm going to like it.
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I don't know how or I could go to my tried and true same song that I've been listening
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to for the last month because it's and so there's like an emotional mental thing happening
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there.
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And so one of the things that I have the trust is if you show me, if I like you, if I know
315
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you all, if we've done all that pre-work, then I'm going to be much more likely to take
316
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a risk on you, the newbie, right?
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The unproven one that going to where I know because my time is valuable and I have so little
318
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of it and I can't handle another disappointment in a world of like stressful news cycles.
319
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And I know that's maybe melodramatic because we don't consciously think of it that way.
320
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But we got like art is emotional.
321
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And so we go to art when we want something emotional.
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And if I don't know that I'm going to get that emotional need met from you, I'm going
323
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to go to where the sure thing is.
324
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And so that's why the trust building once you built that trust is smooth sailing.
325
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Like your audience is going to be there, but you've got to put in that front end work so
326
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that I can take that risk on you and be emotionally vulnerable.
327
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Right.
328
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No, that's true.
329
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I'm just thinking about like my own experience in the world right now and just being regularly
330
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inundated with people's stories and listening to their trauma and helping them through that.
331
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And then going upstairs after I'm finished with the day and like it's more of that stuff
332
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is just broadcast in front of me and then I go to the gym and that's where I want to
333
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like pick things up and put them down and get rid of stress.
334
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Right.
335
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,320
But I also like listen to music then mostly.
336
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And you're right.
337
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What's going to make me feel better?
338
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Well, I know that this artist and this song is going to like help me focus and it's going
339
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to make me feel better and I'm going to feel more grounded and all of this kind of stuff.
340
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:24,040
But I've been hearing about this other artist who supposedly has this really great new song
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out or new album out and like, man, I would like to, but like I have, like you said,
342
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like I have 30 minutes or 45 minutes right now and I have to shift from feeling overwhelmed
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to feeling grounded in that 45 minutes.
344
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And am I going to put that time into this person who I haven't really seen what they're
345
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about other than hearing that they're good?
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And usually I might start a song then on this new artist, right?
347
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:58,880
But then I'm like, this is not like, you know, and I go back to the tried and true one pretty
348
00:22:58,880 --> 00:22:59,880
quickly.
349
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But if I have seen stuff that they've put out on their profiles or like I've read something
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that they've written or an interview that they've given and I can connect with their
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message, I'm going to stay with that, you know, that new music maybe a little bit longer
352
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and give them a go, right?
353
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Because I've heard their heart, I've heard their story, I've connected with who they
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are as a person and I'm willing, like you said, to give that time to them in hopes that
355
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they're able to help me feel better and be more connected to myself and the world around
356
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me.
357
00:23:32,120 --> 00:23:35,920
Well, there is like a hack or a shortcut for this.
358
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Oh, I like that.
359
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,520
Which is word of mouth, right?
360
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:45,680
If someone else that I already know, like and trust says, Nora, you should check out
361
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,600
this film or this artist or this installation.
362
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:54,640
That fast tracks you to the top of my playlist because this person that I've already built
363
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:55,640
the relationship.
364
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:56,640
Right.
365
00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:02,520
So as artists, the other thing that I think is really important to do is to cultivate community
366
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:08,760
amongst your supporters so that there's a relationship between you and your fan, but
367
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:15,000
also a relationship amongst your fans because then they will do a lot of the labor for you.
368
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,960
Oh, you should check out this artist is the best.
369
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,480
Oh, don't sleep on.
370
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:28,440
And we've seen this with like so many Stan armies and like both creatively and politically
371
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:36,360
financially here in LA, like they named some, I think it's like some K-pop artist.
372
00:24:36,360 --> 00:24:39,440
This animal was born, the animal looked like a K-pop artist.
373
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:43,920
And so they write a ton of money to name the animal after the K-pop artist.
374
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,240
It was like the biggest fundraiser.
375
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:53,320
So we see that it doesn't have to be, if you build that community aspect, then a lot of
376
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:59,240
the labor that you as an artist is doing in terms of marketing and comms and PR, now your
377
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,280
fans are going to do it for you.
378
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:05,880
And then you can step out and do the creative piece and just check in and still have that.
379
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:13,680
So community is the shortcut to all this like, I mean, and none of us want to be on social
380
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:14,680
media marketing.
381
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:16,000
Like no one enjoys that shit.
382
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:17,000
Let's be honest.
383
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,400
Like we don't want to think about how to hack an algorithm.
384
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:20,400
You can't.
385
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:28,080
So it's so like community and building a relationship again between you and your audience, but then
386
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:33,800
amongst your audience, like amongst themselves, build something really sustainable and long
387
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,520
term so that you can focus on the things that really matter to you.
388
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:38,840
Not to say your fans don't matter.
389
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,800
Your fans should always matter, but the other stuff.
390
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,040
No, but yeah, like you're what you want to be doing, right?
391
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,440
You can get back to what you want to be doing and why and like, you know, the reason why
392
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,440
you're having, why you're cultivating fans, right?
393
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,480
And I noticed that on social media too, like when you're trying to start a social media
394
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:03,200
group or, you know, community, it takes a lot of work and effort upfront, right?
395
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:09,480
It's really slow, slow growing and like you have to be really highly engaged with every
396
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,040
person that's in that space.
397
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:14,800
But after a while, right?
398
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:19,440
After you've like planted seeds and you've engaged them and they're, they start talking
399
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:25,800
to each other and then like I'm not managing those spaces all of the time.
400
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:30,440
I can kind of take a step back and it's running itself and I go in there and I like, of course
401
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:38,080
I'm active in these spaces, but it's not all predicated on me doing all of that work anymore.
402
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:43,480
But I've given them something that they can jive with and, you know, I'm finally starting
403
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:52,040
to get back to doing more of those things in person, which I'm so excited about because
404
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:57,280
I mean staring at these like boxes all the time without like having real human interaction
405
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,760
is really draining too.
406
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:05,960
I just ran with a friend of mine, you know, a new, we just had the first iteration of
407
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:10,440
a new event that we're going to be trying to do and it brought in like, you know, a
408
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:14,440
small number of people because it's the first time we're doing it, but these people had
409
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:21,160
such a great time connecting with one another and just like really minimal programming and
410
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,480
effort on the part of me and my partner.
411
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,480
But they were like, I want more of this.
412
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:28,800
I need more of this.
413
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,480
And we're going to show up again and we're going to bring our friends, right?
414
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,480
And that's how this stuff gets going.
415
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:34,480
Yeah.
416
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,160
And, you know, the number piece I think is really important.
417
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:41,720
I love that you said like small number of people showed up because I think sometimes
418
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:48,480
there's a sense of shame around I did this event and just a few people came or I sent
419
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:54,200
my newsletter, but only two people opened it or get an Instagram live and it was just
420
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,560
a handful of people.
421
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:57,560
And that's okay.
422
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,880
But one, it doesn't make you any less of an artist, right?
423
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:05,600
Like there's no numerical threshold that if you get this many likes, now you are officially
424
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:06,600
like, right?
425
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,600
That's like the algorithm trying to control our behavior.
426
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:14,480
So you're an artist regardless of if you ever sell a piece, whatever.
427
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,160
But that's how it grows.
428
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:21,400
Two people come and then those two people bring someone and then those people, right?
429
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:27,080
And it's organic and it's slow, but it's real and it's strong.
430
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:31,600
And that, you know, and so I just think that's an important thing that like there's no shame
431
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,360
if your numbers are small and there's no embarrassment, right?
432
00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:38,200
Like there's no stigma.
433
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:42,080
And actually that's a great way to be like, yo, I did an event and two people came shout
434
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:47,080
out to those two people who came to see you all next time.
435
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,440
The rest of y'all you missed out.
436
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:50,680
You missed out.
437
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:56,520
You can really lean into it and celebrate because that's the beauty of small is it allows
438
00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:00,560
for real meaningful connection because the other, you know, we talked about no like and
439
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,600
trust the other pieces people want to be seen, heard and understood.
440
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:05,600
Yes.
441
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:11,960
And so yes, if you can make each of your fans, especially those like initial people who just
442
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:18,000
like love you and believe in you, if you can make them feel seen, heard and understood
443
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:22,720
and you've got those two things happening at the same time, like that's the recipe for
444
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:24,120
success right there.
445
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:25,120
Yeah.
446
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:26,120
Yeah.
447
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:31,800
And so, you know, I want to kind of ask a question and I see where you see where you
448
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:32,800
land on this.
449
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:34,720
And I think it's somewhat connected.
450
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,040
Hopefully we can draw a connection to what we're talking about.
451
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:41,240
But if not, it's just a hard turn.
452
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,520
I've been talking with with a bunch of people online.
453
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:47,960
I was actually just having a little back and forth with someone.
454
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:57,320
I probably think some annoying now, but about like the idea of whether or not war, like
455
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:02,960
being a content creator is a bad thing or not.
456
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:07,120
Or if you can, if you can actually differentiate yourself, like if you're putting your stuff
457
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:14,360
up on social media, you're being your content creator, right?
458
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:19,400
And it's where the differentiation comes.
459
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:24,840
And what I was trying to, this person was like, well, you know, I'm not a content creator
460
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:29,280
because I'm not doing putting stuff, I'm not publishing things in a performative matter.
461
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:33,840
I'm not like holding my painting and like turning around and like doing all like these
462
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:40,720
things that are meant to like, you know, hack the algorithm that we're not able to hack.
463
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:45,520
And so, but I'm doing this because I'm trying to keep track of, you know, my progress.
464
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,320
I'm trying to let people see my process.
465
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:52,240
I'm trying to do some of these other things that you and I have been talking about.
466
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,480
That's still content creation though, right?
467
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:56,480
The good question.
468
00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:02,560
I think there's a difference between content creation and being a content creator.
469
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:08,320
So all of us, right, from like the stay at home parent who's posting pictures of their
470
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:14,040
kids for grandma to the influencer who's trying to get like that sponsorship.
471
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:20,520
Every time we post, we're creating content for the only purpose to keep these apps well
472
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:22,960
funded in the live, right?
473
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,720
Like it's not to build your business.
474
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:30,560
And I think that's such an important distinction because what that speaks to is that there
475
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:35,880
are not places that's at least in the United States, there's not places that support or
476
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:40,280
facilitate creative discovery, creative connection.
477
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:46,960
Like unless I actively go to a museum or I go to a show, we don't have cultural spaces
478
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:51,000
that say, Hey, look, artists can come and just exhibit.
479
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:59,720
So social media fills this need, but it's actually, I think, taking away more from us
480
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,840
than giving to us, even though we've been gaslit, right?
481
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:03,840
Right.
482
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:09,120
Why, because if like the socials were really on our side, 100% of our followers would see
483
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,040
100% of our content.
484
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:12,040
They don't.
485
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:13,040
Why?
486
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:18,560
So that you can buy ads and do whatever like reels because reels keep on the app longer
487
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:24,760
than, you know, like, so I think it's important to distinguish between content creation, which
488
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:31,560
we all do and being a content creator, which for me is explicitly saying, I'm getting my
489
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:38,120
income or trying to get like, this is part of what I do, because I think being a content
490
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:46,680
creator requires you to please the algorithm rather than creating for the sake of creativity
491
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:47,680
or right.
492
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,520
It does influence our behavior.
493
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,680
We think, okay, if I post it this time, I'm going to get more views.
494
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:53,680
So I'm going to do that.
495
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:57,600
Or I did this kind of content and it did really well.
496
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,400
So I'm going to do more of it.
497
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:06,360
I'm a big believer in that capitalism is just really bad for creativity and innovation.
498
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:12,200
Because once you start to please the things that capitalism rewards, rather than taking
499
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:17,120
a risk or doing something so ridiculous and people aren't going to like it because you
500
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:18,120
want to get likes.
501
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:23,480
It's not so there's something very restrict like the freedom of creativity or exploration
502
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:30,360
gets restricted when we're reliant on these algorithms.
503
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:32,840
And there's a lot of research being done about that, right?
504
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,120
About our behavior.
505
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:40,200
But I think that distinction is important and it's rooted in this bigger systemic issue
506
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:45,400
of if we had affordable housing and healthcare, I wouldn't have to be a content creator because
507
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:50,760
I could just make art and universal basic income would provide for my needs.
508
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:56,520
And so we could put things where they need to go rather than trying to like survive off
509
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:57,520
of...
510
00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:58,520
Yeah.
511
00:33:58,520 --> 00:33:59,520
Yeah.
512
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:00,520
I know what I'm trying to say.
513
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:01,520
Yeah.
514
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:07,080
Trying to survive off all of the little crumbs that are thrown out for us and we all have
515
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:08,480
to fight for it, right?
516
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,720
And you said something else.
517
00:34:10,720 --> 00:34:12,320
This is just a really interesting conversation.
518
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:17,960
I'm so glad that you're here having it with us.
519
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:24,200
You said something about capitalism being bad for creativity, being bad for innovation.
520
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:30,480
And what you said, the direct opposite of what they said capitalism was supposed to
521
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:31,480
do.
522
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,720
Like capitalism was supposed to fuel innovation, right?
523
00:34:34,720 --> 00:34:42,000
And fuel ideas and growth and all of that kind of thing originally, right?
524
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:49,560
But now you were saying, has it always been that way or has it gone sour here?
525
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:50,560
No.
526
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:52,520
I think it's always been that way, right?
527
00:34:52,520 --> 00:35:01,880
And we've been told of free market is what creates, but only if it creates money, right?
528
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:10,720
And so we've learned not to value things that have a clear productivity impact or clear
529
00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:12,400
financial impact.
530
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:19,080
So service labor isn't valued, creative labor isn't valued, care work isn't valued, community
531
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:25,640
work isn't valued under that versus if we say, you know what, we're going to just value
532
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:32,280
things that are valuable and we can decide for ourselves what that looks and feels like,
533
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:37,800
then spending a day with my dog is really valuable or I could get really creative in
534
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:44,040
terms of there's something about only measuring success in terms of how much money it makes
535
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,280
us.
536
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:51,160
That is really, really restrictive for multiple reasons.
537
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,120
Yeah.
538
00:35:53,120 --> 00:36:01,840
Got to get away from all of our worth being what we are able to like put in our pocket
539
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,520
at the end of the day and do.
540
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:11,400
So as we start to wrap up here, like, are there some things that you can either reiterate
541
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:20,280
or offer us again or for the first time, artists, like what can artists be doing to really challenge
542
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:28,040
this notion of like capitalism being what's their, how they're operating and what they're
543
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:34,200
operating within and how they can actually get back to, you know, being the makers that
544
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:41,560
they are while still really, truly needing to coexist with this.
545
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:42,560
Yeah.
546
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,080
Anything that's on fire.
547
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:50,040
I think just asking, like just questioning things, do I really want this or have I been
548
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:51,920
told I should want this?
549
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:56,440
Does this matter to me or have I been conditioned to think that just, you know, one of the ways
550
00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:01,680
that capitalism works is that it's so like, it's, it's incipient, is that the word?
551
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:06,440
It's like so there and we just assume it's, it's hegemony.
552
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:13,200
And so just questioning the nature of things is a really helpful way to start to unpack
553
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:17,040
what's yours versus what's been given to you.
554
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:18,680
And then think, decide for yourself.
555
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:23,320
And I think this is especially like, well, at any time it's a good activity to sit down
556
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:28,800
and be like, what does success look like and feel like for me and ask for work towards
557
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:29,800
that.
558
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:34,880
So if you're in your community, find your collaborators, your colleagues, your allies,
559
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:39,720
think about what collaboration can look like, be proactive and reach, hey, really liked
560
00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:44,080
your artwork that I saw, like slide into people's DMs and just love on them.
561
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:45,080
Respectful.
562
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:46,080
Respectful.
563
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:47,080
Yes.
564
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:51,240
Like really build and participate in community.
565
00:37:51,240 --> 00:37:58,520
And then lastly, just remember that your worth is not tied to what you do or how much
566
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:02,960
you produce or how many likes you get, but really, you know, you're an artist because
567
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:04,440
you are an artist.
568
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,200
Like there's no qualifiers to that.
569
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:11,080
And you're worthy because you're worthy and there's no qualifiers to that.
570
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:15,880
And so capitalism tries to dehumanize us and anything you can do to remind yourself of
571
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:17,280
your own humanity.
572
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,360
And then maybe pass that out to your community.
573
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,440
That's I think really important and really powerful.
574
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:23,440
Yeah, that is.
575
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:24,440
That is.
576
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:32,800
And for some reason, so hard to remember and like, integrate into our lives each day.
577
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:38,240
Nora, so how can people, if they want to hear more from you, if they want to connect
578
00:38:38,240 --> 00:38:45,640
with you, maybe, you know, find some coaching with you?
579
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:47,560
How can people find you?
580
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:51,320
Do you have any offers or anything that people can take advantage of right now?
581
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:52,320
What's going on?
582
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:53,320
Yeah.
583
00:38:53,320 --> 00:39:00,040
I'm at Nora Rahimian, N-O-R-A-R-A-H-I-M-I-A-N on all your socials.
584
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:01,240
I have a really good newsletter.
585
00:39:01,240 --> 00:39:02,240
I don't spam you.
586
00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:06,880
I send you a ton of things and I know my link tree will be in the show notes.
587
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,800
And then if you're interested in consulting, if you mentioned TJ's podcast, I'll give you
588
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,520
$50 off your first.
589
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:16,120
So just mention TJ.
590
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:17,760
And again, this is like collaboration.
591
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,400
TJ coaches, I coach, we're not in competition with each other.
592
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:22,400
This is like an alley.
593
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:23,400
Right?
594
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,240
Like win-win.
595
00:39:25,240 --> 00:39:27,560
And so look at us like role modeling, right?
596
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:28,560
We're not just preaching.
597
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:29,560
Right.
598
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:30,560
What we're preaching.
599
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:33,160
But yeah, my DMs are always open.
600
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,960
I do coaching and consulting.
601
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:40,600
So like I said, $50 off your first three sessions with me, if not, sign up for the newsletter
602
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:45,640
because there's a ton of useful information on there as well as on the YouTube or just
603
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:51,200
slide in the DMs and be like, yo, I listened to your podcast or it was whack or whatever.
604
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:53,440
And I'd really like to hear from people.
605
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:54,440
That's awesome.
606
00:39:54,440 --> 00:40:01,200
And thank you so much for the generous reduction of your rate for those people who take advantage
607
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:02,200
of it.
608
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:03,200
It's really awesome.
609
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:04,200
And yeah, that's right.
610
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:09,760
Like everybody that I talk to, almost everybody that I have on the podcast does something like
611
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,240
similar to me, but with a different flavor, with a different spin, right?
612
00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:15,320
Or they're just adjacent to me.
613
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:22,640
But I want people to know all different types of folks because like we were saying, all
614
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:28,560
of us can't help every single person that comes our way and different flavors of things
615
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:31,080
work for different people.
616
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,600
So totally, this is not competition.
617
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,240
This is actually like collaboration.
618
00:40:36,240 --> 00:40:37,760
And I'm here for it.
619
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:42,960
And so with that, Nora, thank you so much for your time and for your expertise and for
620
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,040
your passion on these subjects.
621
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:50,760
I know this conversation really challenges me to think differently.
622
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,040
And God knows that I need to think differently out of times.
623
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:56,760
I like run into blind spots that I have all of the time.
624
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:01,400
And I'm constantly being called out or called in for them.
625
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:03,240
And I love learning.
626
00:41:03,240 --> 00:41:06,360
And so thank you for all of this.
627
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:10,240
Everybody, this has been the Bold Creatives Collective podcast.
628
00:41:10,240 --> 00:41:11,240
It's hard out there.
629
00:41:11,240 --> 00:41:12,480
Let's support one another.
630
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:18,000
Let's love one another and make the world a better place as best as we can.
631
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,560
I'll see you all on the next episode.
632
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:21,560
Until then, have a great one.
633
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:39,560
See ya.