Leonard Pitts Joins Tavis Smiley

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Live on History Work Number at arg in Los Angeles, California.
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I'm Tavis Smiley and I'm so glad to see you
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and me back in stride. And before we get started
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with today's ShW, let me invout you to follow me
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on Facebook and Instagram at the real Tavis Smiley and
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get updates on x that's formerly Twitter at Tavis Smiley.
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By the way, should you miss any product.
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Today's program, I want to catch up on previous shows,
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you can always visit the Tavissmileyshow dot com. That's the
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Tavismileyshow dot com or wherever you get your podcast and
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listen to the Tavismoley podcast version of this live program
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at your leisure. Another great show on tap for you
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today and our second hour, Veteran New York Times reporter
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Anthony de Palmer takes us inside his new book on
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this Ground, Hardship and Hope at the toughest prep school
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in America. De Palma shares the remarkable story of the
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students who thrive at a celebrated school in Newark, New Jersey,
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and how the community rallied refusing to let its children's
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educations become a casualty of a growing racial divide in
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Brick City.
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We'll do that in hour two. In our third hour,
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Beethoven was black.
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Truth is the key.
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Only time I wrap on a cord.
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I'm not a pump at the strain, Victoria throng, color pink.
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These niggas all of.
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My ass, hell lot of y'all on them past, surround
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my Grammy with glass. How I caught case?
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I'm Tavis Smiley.
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In our third hour, I don't know what that was, Miles.
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I gotta fix that track anyway. My mom is calling
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me right now.
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Thank you.
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Grammy winning hip hop artist Raps. He comes to the
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studio an hour three to preview her Blue note La
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appearance and talk about her latest EP with Man had
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Lib called hashtag Man Raps. We'll do that with Rhapsody
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today in our third hour. In this first hour, let's
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talk politics and more with Politerprise Mean than columnists, besselling
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author and director of the Center for Urban Journalism at
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Morgan State University, Leonard Pitts Junior, Leonard, how are.
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You, sir?
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Hey, I'm well, how are you, sir?
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If I complain not being in grade, I'm doing okay
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and always thrilled to be in conversation with you. There's
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a lot of news I want to get to you
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in this hour. The Clinton's caved yesterday.
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Uh.
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That story is everywhere, and I've got some thoughts about that.
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More of the point, I want to hear what your
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take is on that. The Clintons came out really really
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strong just days ago, uh, and had a lot to
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say about how they weren't gonna show up for this
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Epstein Uh, these Epstein hearings, and weren't gonna speak, and
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weren't gonna do this, and weren't gonna do that.
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Uh.
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Y'all heard me say many many times, I ain't doing it.
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I ain't doing it, I ain't doing it. They agreed
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to do it. It's like Joe Biden, I ain't going,
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I ain't going. I ain't going. He's gone.
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So I've lived. I've lived long enough. Long enough now, Leonard.
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To take these protestations with a grain of salt. So
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the Clintons again have caved. As of yesterday. They are
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going to Capitol Hill, they are going to testify these
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Epstein hearings. They have released or backed off of all
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the conditions they laid out.
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We ain't doing this. We ain't doing this, We ain't
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doing that.
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They're doing all of it, unlimited number of hours, no questions,
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off limits. They backed down on every single demand they made.
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If they agreed to participate and to cooperate with this committee.
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The Clinton's caved.
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We'll talk about that later in this hiber Leondard Pitts Junior,
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let me just set the hour up this way, and
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I just want to read a paragraph here from a
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provocative piece that Leonard wrote. You've heard me say many
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many times when Leonard's on this program, and for that matter,
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but Leonard's not on this program that for so many
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years his copy was must read copy for me at
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the Miami Herald, all those years Pulitzer Prize Winter. He
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stepped away from that and started writing best selling books
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for whatever reason. Maybe it's because the time we are
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living in. I'll let him explain that when we come forward.
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But he's starting a new substack, and he is writing
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on stepstack, and I can't get enough of what Leonard
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has to say on stepstack, because again, nobody turns a
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phrase quite like Leonard Pitt's Junior. And so here's a
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paragraph from a recent PC wrote, And I want to
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start our conversation here, I think in part because it's
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Black History Month, and I think this comment, this paragraph,
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I should say, will resonate with you for those who
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are commemorating and celebrating the one hundredth anniversary of Black
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History Month. On the one hand, so there's a celebration
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a foot one hundred years later. On the other hand,
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we find ourselves in a moment where I don't know
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I has to say it, but this sort of wanton
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hubris of the Trump administration threatening and punishing and detaining
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and dresting and harassing not just immigrants, but indeed and
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murdering fellow citizens is just out of control. So here
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now this paragraph and a piece that Lenda wrote on substack.
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We'll let him unpack it when we come. For there
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is often punishment for stepping outside of privilege, often a
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price to be paid. Sometimes that price is quite high,
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tallied in a currency of imprisonment, violence, or death. Alex
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Preddi and Renee good join a long and distinguished list
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of Americans. Elijah Parris, Lovejoy, James Zwerg, Vowla Luiso, Joan Trumpower, Muholland,
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Hazel Bannon Smith, Andrew Goodman, who took that step and
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paid that price. There's often punishment for stepping outside of privilege,
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often a price to be paid. Sometimes that price is
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quite high talent in a currency of imprisonment, violence, or
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even death. Will let Leondar pitch Junior unpack that for
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us when we come forward on Tavis Smitit Junior, a
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political prize winning columnists, director of the Senate of Urban
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journalest Morgan State University, best selling author, pleased to have
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him on this program to Day and Catch you've just
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tuned in. Let me read this paragraph one more again
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from a recent piece he published on Substact. There is
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often punishment for stepping outside of privilege, often a price
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to be paid. Sometimes that price is quite high, talented
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in a currency of imprisonment, violence, or even death. Alex
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Pretty and Renee good join a long and distinguished list
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of Americans Elijah Parrish, Lovejoy, James werg Vala, Luiso, Joan Trumpower,
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mhalland Hazel Bannon Smith, Andrew Goodman who took that step
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and paid that price. If those names are not familiar
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with you, google them, read about them, and you'll understand
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why Leonard used those names in this paragraph as examples
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of distinguished Americans who have paid a very heavy price.
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And there are Americans now in this moment, as the
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new points out, who are paying a very heavy price
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for the for doing what Americans do right. It is
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it is as Americans upple pie apple pie to protest
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for right.
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But I digress. Literard this piece it got me talked
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to me, sir.
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Well, I wanted to make, uh the case that for
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especially for my white American friends who may not realize it,
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or may not, you know, because as Americans we tend
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to have very short historical memory. To let them understand
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that Alex Pretty and Renee Good, you know, blessings upon
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both their names. They are just the latest and a
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long line of white folk who have stepped outside of
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a privilege or or put privilege to the side, and
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paid a heavy price for that. And I think that,
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you know, I think that when when you're when you're white,
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did you expect the world to operate in certain ways?
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And it does operate in those ways as long as
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you don't cross certain boundaries, uh and align yourself with
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certain people's you know, black people, brown people, being you know,
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being prominent among those and when you do that, uh,
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then you discover or or gain entree to a completely
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different America that you perhaps had never known. Was there
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that same piece that you mentioned, I quote the people
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who ran up on James reeb and two companions in
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Selma when they were there for the voting rights campaign.
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These two white these three white men were assaulted on
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a street in Selma. Reb was killed and the first
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things that they heard out of out of the mouths
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of the men who approached them was hey, you inwards.
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And I just find that that that's so telling, because
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it's like, Okay, now, these are three white guys, but
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they have decided to align themselves with African American, with
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African American human rights, and so that means that they
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have lost all the protections and the privileges of whiteness.
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That's a pattern that goes back. You know, it's absolutely
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consistent through our history. One of the men that you mentioned,
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or that you quoted me as mentioning there, Elijah Parrish Lovejoy,
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was killed in Alton, Illinois in Oh gosh, I guess
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it's late eighteen fifties or thereabouts for publishing anti slavery tracts.
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So you know, this is an absolutely clear pattern, you know,
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and one that we all should be aware of. And
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then white folk who are who are protesting, should absolutely
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be aware of.
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What does it mean that, in a moment like this,
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to your point, we find ourselves in a space were
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white fellow citizens. It's one thing for America to mal
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treat people who look like you and me. As I mentioned,
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this is the one hundredth anniversary of these Black History Months,
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Negro History Week celebrations, and so we know the story
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of America as it relates to who look like you
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and me. But it seems to me it's another thing.
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And again I think history bears this out. I could
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walk through a number of examples if I had the time,
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as could you, where white fellow citizens were put up
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on and it was a game changer.
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People saw a little bit differently.
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It happened as quite out west might say, on the
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Vanilla side of town. So what do you make at
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a moment like this that we are seeing white fellow
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citizens being murdered by the US government.
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I think it's still evolving. You would have expected, going
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by historical you know, parallels, that this would be a
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big game changer, and I think to some degree it
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has been if you look at the rhetoric that has
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surrounded you know, these two, and Bruce Springsteen has put
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out a song, you know, et cetera, et cetera. But
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I also think that some elements of this country are
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so far gone down this rabbit hole of xenophobia, racism,
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et cetera, and et cetera, that they are not that
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even what would have what would have shocked them and
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what did shock the country let's say sixty years ago, Uh,
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when Viola Liuzo was killed. Uh, you know, don't shock
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don't don't carry the same impact that that that they
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once did. In other words, you see a white person
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killed now in in in a search for freedom for
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people of color, and I don't think it hits the
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way it did when Viola Liuso lost her life in
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sixty five. Uh, you know, that was a big That
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was a big deal. That was that was that was huge.
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That was a game changer, and and and and really
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helped to advance the fight for the Voting Rights Act.
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I wonder if I wonder if and again the jury
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is still out, but I wonder if the deaths of
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Alex Pretty and Renee Good are going to have the
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same impact as far as getting ice off, melting ice,
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getting ice off the streets, and ending this insane I
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don't even call it a crack down. This, this immigration
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crack up that the Bush administration is is the Bush administration.
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The Trump administration is imposing what what?
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What's what's your what's your gut telling you? I think
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you're right, the jury is still out. What's your gut
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telling you? And your gut is informed, of course by history,
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which you write about better than anybody.
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My gut tells me that we are beyond the guidance
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of history in a lot of ways. It's just why
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you have to be careful. Ordinarily, I look to history,
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you know, Okay, when's the last time something like this happened?
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And what happened? Then okay, I can I can be
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guided by that. But I think we are so far
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beyond the guidance that history can can can can give
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us that it's really it's really difficult. My gut says
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that we are too far gone. My gut says that
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this may have some impact, but it will not have
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the impact that a viola to use or James Reeve
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had back in nineteen sixty five. I don't think. I
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don't think it will. You know, the thing with Trump
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is that we keep and this is we've been doing
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this since this guy first became a political force. We
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keep waiting to reach the bottom. We keep saying, Okay,
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here's the turning point where people are gonna you know,
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where people are going to you know, change, and they're
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going to say, oh, this is this is terrible and
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it doesn't come. So at some point I think we
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got to quit looking for it. What's fascinating to me
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is that Trump's share of the white electorate has been
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absolutely consistent over three elections. And this is after you know,
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insulting war veterans, insulting you know, John McCain. This is
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after then the January you know, assault on the Capitol.
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No matter what he does, he still gets fifty six
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to fifty seven of the white electorate. And that's telling
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me something. That's telling me that while we look at
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at what's going on in a in a in Minneapolis
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and see horror, these people are looking and seeing exactly
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and precisely what they wanted and what they voted for.
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And anecdotically you'll hear them say this and in in
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clips on the TV news or wherever. No, this is
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what we wanted. And I think that the rest of
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us have to have to lock in on the fact
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that while these things are stunning and and game changing
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to to to some of us, to others of us,
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these things are confirmation of Okay, he's on the right track,
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he's doing what we what we hired him to do.
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Often say no, and you've taked you this question here,
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But I am curious as to how you process, given again,
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given your read of history, how you process that one
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man and I recognize befoy I even finish my question
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is not just one man.
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There are people behind him, as you made quite clearly
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the point.
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But this one man has gotten us into a pickle,
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gotten us into a situation where even history can't guide us.
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That that's a that's a pretty bold statement. I mean,
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you're again you're you're known for turning phrases. I'm not
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even sure you know what you just said, That that
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one man has put us in a situation where even
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the guidance of history doesn't help us.
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I mean that, think about think about that.
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Yeah, But but as you alluded to, it's it's it's
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not that it's not one man. If we were if
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we were if we were normal, if we were who
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we were, even thirty forty years ago, that one man
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would have been laughed off of the national stage. But
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you've got since the Civil rights era, sixty years, let's say,
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we've got sixty years of a certain segment fifty seven percent,
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apparently a white folk feeling sorry for themselves, feeling like
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they are the victim of some sort of takeover, feeling frightened,
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feeling threatened, feeling whatever it is that they feel. And
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so they have coalesced into a hard core behind this guy.
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He he they made him possible. He didn't make them possible,
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you know, And so you know the whole the idea
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of it being one man. Yeah, he has he has
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a certain kind I hate to apply this word to him,
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but it's apparently true. He had a certain charisma and
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a certain magnetism that drew people to him. But if
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they had not been ready for what he was selling,
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then all the magnetism and all the charisma in the
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world would not have been able to do what he's done.
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He was, he met, he was the right man at
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the right time for what a critical mass of mostly
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white Americans and a few very misguided people of color
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decided that they wanted m hm.
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And what does that say to you then, ultimately about
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the state of this republic, the state of biode democracy.
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Well, I'll put the toe you like this. I keep
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hearing people say that there's lively arguments that go on
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online about the need to you know, when when when
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you see Trump people repent, welcome them back with open arms,
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and said and the other I'm not interested in in
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in reasoning with them. I'm not interested in their repentance.
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I'm interested in rendering them politically impotent. I'm interested in
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in in crushing them politically by any legal means necessary
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and making them making them irrelevant politically for for however
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you know, much time, we however long the future goes.
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I think that is the only way that out of this.
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I think one of the one of the one of
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the mistakes that liberals tend to make is this belief
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that that these people can be reasoned with. If they
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could be reasoned with, if reason had any sway them,
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we would not be having this discussion. We wouldn't be
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having any of these discussions we have to. You know,
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the thing is, and I say this advisedly giving the
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given the count on the last election where Trump actually
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won a majority. But the thing is that the rest
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of us are the majority in this country. I think
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the Republicans, the Conservatives have won two on the presidential
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election level, have won, have won the numerical majority. I
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think maybe twice somebody checked me on that in the
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last twenty six years. You know, they don't win, they
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don't show up to be the majority. They are always
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the minority. But we in the minority are so confused.
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I mean, we in the actual majority, are so confused
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and faint hearted and just weak need that we don't
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exert the power that we have. We could have the
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country that we say we wanted if we simply knew
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how to act in a concerted manner, we could have
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that country because we are the blankety blanking majority, you know,
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But I act like it, both like it.
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I have said time and time again, and I believe
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this again historically, I think I've been proven right on
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this particular point, and that is that people eventually wake up,
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either because they see the light or feel the heat,
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and sometimes both. They eventually wake from their slumber, from
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their sleep walking, either because they see the light or
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because they feel the heat, and sometimes it takes both.
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Let me tell you something that I've been hearing a
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lot lately, and it's starting to it's starting to irk me.
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And I've heard it from from friends of mine. I've
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even heard it from contributors on this program who I
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love and respect, and if I didn't, they wouldn't be
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regular contributors.
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But I'm starting to.
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Tire of the phrase. We've been through worse. We've been
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through worse, We've seen this before. I am starting to
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tire of that phrase.
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You're starting to tire.
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Yeah, I hear you. I'm ahead of you on that, Okay,
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you always are. Eleonard Prints Junior is always ahead of me,
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and that's why I'm always aud to that Mother's program
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so I can do my best to try to catch up.
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But I'm starting to tire that phrase. And I know
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that when people say it, they are well intentioned. I
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gain I recognize the fact that we are not in
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the one hundredth anniversary of these Negro weak Black History
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Month celebrations. I get all of that. I know the
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story of how we have overcome. I know the story.
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May Angelo said it best in her poem we were stolen,
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bought and sold into slavery, arriving on the nightmare praying
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for a dream. That's Maya's beautiful prose. I could do
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this all day long with any of you if I
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had the time. So I understand what folk mean when
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they say we have been through worse. Now, clearly I
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wasn't around one hundred years ago. I wasn't around two
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hundred years ago. I wasn't around here in sixteen nineteen.
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What I can tell you, though, is that this feels really, really,
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really different from me, and this simple notion, simplistic notion,
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that we have been through worse is starting to bother me.
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As you've already heard from Leonard, he's ahead of me.
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I want to understand when we come forward, how you
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got ahead of me, and why apparently he's as tired
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or more tired than I am of hearing that phrase.
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A great deal more to cover, and we ain't got
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to the Clinton's caving yesterday. You're listening to Leondar to
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Pitts Junior on Tavis Smart, You are indeed with Puts
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prophet and colonists. To director of the Center for Reveren
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journalist Morgan State University best selling novelist Leonard Pitts Junior.
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So catch you just tuned then I was saying, excuse
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me a few moments ago that I have always believed
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that people again historically, I think this is gonna be
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born out and proven that folks eventually wake up, eventually,
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eventually eventually wake up, either because either because they see.
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The light or they feel the heat, or sometimes both.
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But I'm at this point now where I'm not sure
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we're gonna wake from this slumber in this place called America.
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And what's to great on me every time I hear
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it is that we've been here before, We've been through worse.
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And as I was expressing that, Leonard Pitch started laughing
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in my face. Uh, and he said starting to starting
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to all right, Leonard, I take it there's something behind
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that that that snark, So give it to me.
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Well, let me let me be real clear here. You know,
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as as African Americans speaking specifically of us in our group,
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you know, yeah, we've we've seen times that that that
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against which you know, these pale in comparison. We've seen segregation,
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we've seen lynching, we've seen you know, job denial, vote denial, etcetera, etcetera.
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So we as as black folk, yeah, we have seen worse,
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but we saw that in the context of a nation
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that was stable. Okay, we we were going to hell
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or we were in hell, but the nation itself, you know,
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was stable and and and was theoretically even trying, you know,
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by fits and starts and on occasion, to live up
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to its founding principles of you know, truths, hell self evident,
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and all men created equalt et cetera, et cetera. So
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there was at least that framework around the hell that
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we were going through that gave us reasonably okay, we
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can you know, we can climb out of this. Come
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on in WACP file, you your lawsuit, Come on, Rosa,
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you know, keep that keep that seat, don't don't stand up,
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because there's you know, there's this framework that says we
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can climb out of this. We are now in the
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situation where our situation, our situation has improved, but not
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you know, we ain't in the Promised Land yet, and
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the country around us is now going hell. The country
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around us is not stable. People you know who say that, okay,
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we've seen worse, I think really are not looking at
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this from from a historical and holistic point of view,
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because if you look at where this country is right now,
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we have not seen quote unquote worse or not been
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in greater danger as a country since Abraham Lincoln was
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running for his first term. Okay, that's when we were
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in greater danger.
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That's sober right.
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I mean, think about September eleventh was scary as hell,
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but there was no danger the country was going to fall. Okay,
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World War two terrifying. Especially, we were able to sit
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that out for two or three years. That shows you
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how frightened we were. And then we got into it,
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and you know, there were ups and downs and obviously difficulties.
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I don't make it seem like a cake walk, but
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I don't think there was ever much doubt that we
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were going to overwhelm the Germans and the Japanese. The
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Great Depression, Okay, yeah, there's you know, the money is tight,
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but as an older black man told me, you know,
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they didn't know there was a depression. Poverty was nothing
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new for black folk. So you got to go back
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to the late eighteen fifties and early in eighteen sixty
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when Lincoln was running for president and the Civil War
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was looming. Before you get to a stage where the
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existence of the country in which black folks struggle was
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in this much peril. That's the difference. That's why you feel, Okay,
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this ain't like other times. It's because the existence of
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the country is in peril. I mean, I've been telling
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people I give it. I think I told you I
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give it. You know fifty chance that we're going to
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have an election this fall and you and you heard Trump,
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or you may not. You may have missed this, which
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where Trump is now talking about let's nationalize the election.
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Oh yeah, I heard it. I heard it.
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Okay, so there's your test balloon going up. Can I
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get away with this? Let's nationalize the election? And that's
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his that's the way of saying, Okay, we're either gonna
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not have an election, or we're gonna we're gonna put
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thumb on the scale to such a point that that
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majority of people who dislike me will be politically neutered.
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Yep.
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Speaking of things that I've often said, like people wake
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up because she's allowed to feel the heat, I've often
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said the following, and I want to frame it again,
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so I can get Leonard's take on where he sees
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us in this particular moment, in this particular frame. I
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make a distinction all the time, lindit to this audience
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between optimism and hope.
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They're not the same thing.
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Optimism suggests there's a particular set of facts, circumstances, or conditions.
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Put another way, something you can see, feel or touch
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that gives you reason to believe that things are going
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to get better. And based on what you see, feel,
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or touch, you say, you know what, I'm optimistic about
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the future. That's optimism. Hope is something dramatically different. I
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lean into the I lean into the biblical narrative, if
479
00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:41.200
you will, that faith is the substance of things hoped
480
00:26:41.240 --> 00:26:44.599
for the evidence of things not seen. That's what it
481
00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:48.079
means to be black, to live not on Optimism Boulevard,
482
00:26:48.119 --> 00:26:51.559
but on Hope Street. That we find reasons to hope
483
00:26:51.599 --> 00:26:53.559
even when there's no evidence that.
484
00:26:53.480 --> 00:26:54.559
We are to be hopeful.
485
00:26:54.839 --> 00:26:57.440
If you since it's black heresty month on hundred years later,
486
00:26:57.480 --> 00:26:59.559
think about the words to lift every bode and sing
487
00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:03.200
the Negro national anthem, you go to that second third verse,
488
00:27:03.880 --> 00:27:06.440
second verses. I recalled that we had a hope when
489
00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:10.519
Hope unborn had died. It's the coldest line. There are
490
00:27:10.519 --> 00:27:12.079
a lot of great lines in that James wood and
491
00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:15.359
Johnson's song. James Woden Johnson writes the words, his brother
492
00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:18.200
Jay Rosamond Johnson writes the music. They teach it the
493
00:27:18.279 --> 00:27:20.920
kids in Flordam. The kids learned the song for our
494
00:27:20.960 --> 00:27:24.680
special program honoring Abraham Lincoln. Speaking of Lincoln, and these
495
00:27:24.759 --> 00:27:27.480
kids go their way, but they keep on singing this song.
496
00:27:27.759 --> 00:27:29.920
They keep on singing as they move around the country.
497
00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:33.079
And Lord and behold, many many years later, negroes everywhere
498
00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:36.200
singing this song. It ultimately becomes the Black national anthem.
499
00:27:36.200 --> 00:27:38.640
But that's the genesis for how that story came to be.
500
00:27:38.759 --> 00:27:41.279
But the lyrics are written by the great poet James
501
00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:45.480
Weldon Johnson. That we had hope when Hope unborn had died.
502
00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:47.839
Y'all know what that means, right. That means when Hope
503
00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:51.119
got to Negroes, it was still born. By the time
504
00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:53.079
Hope got to us, it was always still born. That
505
00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:57.400
we had a hope when Hope unborn had died. So
506
00:27:57.680 --> 00:28:00.839
we are never an optimistic people. The evidence ain't never
507
00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:03.039
there for us. But we have but we have built
508
00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:07.480
our entire lives, the entire Black tradition, the Black freedom struggle,
509
00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:11.119
has been built on the notion of hope. That's a
510
00:28:11.119 --> 00:28:13.359
long way of asking, even if you can't be optimistic
511
00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:16.200
right now, Leonard Pitch Jr. You can't be, I can't be.
512
00:28:16.720 --> 00:28:19.599
Do you have any reason to be hopeful at this moment?
513
00:28:20.119 --> 00:28:25.720
Well, as you just said, hope doesn't need reason. You
514
00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:29.160
just answered the question you asked. There you go, hope
515
00:28:29.200 --> 00:28:33.119
doesn't Hope doesn't require reason. So if that's the that's
516
00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:35.960
the parameters we're working with. Sure, I can be, I
517
00:28:35.960 --> 00:28:38.680
can be hopeful. But if you ask me if I
518
00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:43.359
am I optimistic? Not particularly? Yeah, you know, I come
519
00:28:43.400 --> 00:28:46.160
from a hopeful people, So you're right. You know, it's
520
00:28:46.240 --> 00:28:47.960
shame on me if I if I if I don't
521
00:28:48.039 --> 00:28:52.279
have hope. But but you know, optimism, I see, I
522
00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:55.640
see few reasons for that because you know, to your
523
00:28:55.720 --> 00:28:59.440
point about you know, people wasn't see the light, was afraid.
524
00:29:00.039 --> 00:29:02.319
Either feel the light or either feel the heat or
525
00:29:02.359 --> 00:29:03.559
see the light see the lighter fuel.
526
00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:06.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that fifty of white folks for whom
527
00:29:06.599 --> 00:29:08.440
this is just fine, are not going to do either
528
00:29:10.039 --> 00:29:13.519
because they're getting they're getting what they want.
529
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:14.319
You know.
530
00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:17.440
Now the now the people in was the group Latinos
531
00:29:17.480 --> 00:29:20.480
for Trump, you know, they're feeling some kind of way
532
00:29:20.680 --> 00:29:22.079
right now. As a matter of fact, the head of
533
00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:24.400
that group, I think recently said, oh, this isn't what
534
00:29:24.440 --> 00:29:26.480
we voted for and and a lot of us are
535
00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:28.720
going yet this is exactly what we told you. He
536
00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:31.279
what's going to do. But you know, they're feeling the
537
00:29:31.359 --> 00:29:34.200
light because they had see there's this thing I call
538
00:29:34.279 --> 00:29:39.920
honorary whiteness and black folks, some black folks are susceptible
539
00:29:39.960 --> 00:29:43.240
to it, and Latinos are susceptible to it, and so
540
00:29:43.319 --> 00:29:46.400
they you know, they vote for this under the you know,
541
00:29:47.160 --> 00:29:51.640
under the rubric of okay, my honorary whiteness will protect me, okay,
542
00:29:52.279 --> 00:29:55.400
And what they are discovering and what you know, I
543
00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:58.960
don't know if the likes of herschel Walker and Senator
544
00:29:59.000 --> 00:30:04.119
Tim Scott are are are are feeling this yet or
545
00:30:04.200 --> 00:30:06.759
maybe I doubt they ever will. But you know, this
546
00:30:06.839 --> 00:30:09.119
doesn't This don't include you. This is not about you.
547
00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:13.799
Maga is not about about you. It is not about
548
00:30:13.839 --> 00:30:16.200
making your life or the lives of people who look
549
00:30:16.319 --> 00:30:23.559
like you materially better, So you know, honorary whiteness ain't whiteness.
550
00:30:21.559 --> 00:30:25.039
Yeah, it will let you down.
551
00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:28.920
It's gonna let you It's gonna let you down every time.
552
00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:32.000
And I just wish some of these you know, Negroes
553
00:30:32.079 --> 00:30:35.559
and Latinos and Latinas would would would figure it that out.
554
00:30:35.599 --> 00:30:37.400
It will let you down and not and not let
555
00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:41.839
you down easy necessarily. I digress on that. So back
556
00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:45.759
to the formulation of either seeing the light or feeling
557
00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:48.240
the heat. I don't know which one got to the Clintons.
558
00:30:48.440 --> 00:30:50.640
I don't know if they saw the light or they
559
00:30:50.680 --> 00:30:54.119
felt the heat or both. But the Clintons caved yesterday.
560
00:30:54.519 --> 00:30:56.519
We'll talk about that with Olyopis Junior when we come
561
00:30:56.519 --> 00:31:00.839
forward on table and leon Pitch Jr. A game winning columnists,
562
00:31:00.839 --> 00:31:03.240
director of the Center for Urban Journalism at Morgan State University,
563
00:31:04.039 --> 00:31:08.680
best selling novelce I'm hearing you. I'm seeing all your comments. Yes,
564
00:31:08.720 --> 00:31:10.720
you're right. Leonard Pist Junior is on fire today. But
565
00:31:10.759 --> 00:31:14.279
he's always on fire. So if you have not heard
566
00:31:14.359 --> 00:31:17.079
him regularly on this program, whenever you see posted he's
567
00:31:17.119 --> 00:31:21.400
coming on, this is what you can expect. He's a flamethrower,
568
00:31:21.400 --> 00:31:24.319
a fire breather, but mostly a truth teller. And that's
569
00:31:24.359 --> 00:31:26.119
what I love most about him. All Right, So I've
570
00:31:26.119 --> 00:31:27.480
said it a few times down. My time is getting
571
00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:30.200
away from me. Billion Harry Clinton. The Clinton's have agreed
572
00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:33.160
to testify in this House Epstein probe ahead of this
573
00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:36.519
contempt vote. They had previously refused to appear, and refuse
574
00:31:36.599 --> 00:31:38.480
ain't put enough on it. I ain't got time to
575
00:31:38.559 --> 00:31:41.480
run through all the stuff, the long letters they sent
576
00:31:41.559 --> 00:31:45.240
to the Congressman, the chair, the stuff their attorneys said,
577
00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:48.640
the stuff they posted on social media, all this bravado
578
00:31:48.920 --> 00:31:51.160
the Clinton's had. And I like Billion Hillary. They've been
579
00:31:51.160 --> 00:31:52.960
friends of mine for years. I got nothing against him.
580
00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:55.640
But they had all this bravado, refusing flat out to
581
00:31:55.680 --> 00:31:59.799
appear before this committee, the Republican House Oversight Committee, laying
582
00:31:59.799 --> 00:32:04.079
out all these rules of engagement. They cave littered on everything.
583
00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:08.079
There ain't nothing that they really demanded that they are
584
00:32:08.119 --> 00:32:11.160
still standing on. And this is what you call. I
585
00:32:11.240 --> 00:32:14.839
mentioned doctor West earlier. Corneille calls Trump gangster Trump all
586
00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:17.160
the time, Gangster Trump, gangst Trump, that's his nickname for him.
587
00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:19.920
Uh. This is as gangster a move as I have
588
00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:20.640
ever seen.
589
00:32:21.400 --> 00:32:27.799
Daripistine Well, I would find, I would call myself disappointed,
590
00:32:27.799 --> 00:32:32.160
but not surprised. I think that the problem I don't
591
00:32:32.200 --> 00:32:33.880
even know if I don't even know if I characterize
592
00:32:33.880 --> 00:32:36.720
it as a problem. The vulnerability with with the left
593
00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:40.799
is that they are we still play by the rules
594
00:32:40.920 --> 00:32:46.079
of of America, the beautiful we still play We're still
595
00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:48.920
playing by the rules of a nation that frankly doesn't
596
00:32:48.920 --> 00:32:52.559
exist anymore. It's like, it's like the old cliche. You know,
597
00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:55.640
you take boxing gloves to a knife fight. Yea, you know,
598
00:32:57.119 --> 00:33:00.519
we're we're with our boxing gloves. And it's not just
599
00:33:00.599 --> 00:33:04.519
Bill and Hillary, It's it's the it's the entire political
600
00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:08.799
structure of the left, with the possible exception of y'all's
601
00:33:08.799 --> 00:33:12.799
California governor, but that's another story. But everybody else is like,
602
00:33:12.880 --> 00:33:16.480
you know, boxing gloves to a knife fight. I'm looking
603
00:33:16.519 --> 00:33:19.400
at you know, Bill and Hillary caving in on this,
604
00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:21.799
and I'm thinking about what happened when Trump, as an
605
00:33:21.799 --> 00:33:24.799
ex president, was subpoena to appear before the House. He
606
00:33:25.759 --> 00:33:29.759
sued him and said hell no, and they dropped the subpoena.
607
00:33:29.799 --> 00:33:31.799
And I'm not saying I'm not saying that what he
608
00:33:31.839 --> 00:33:34.440
did in the context of what America is supposed to be.
609
00:33:34.960 --> 00:33:38.519
What he did is not right. But in the context
610
00:33:38.559 --> 00:33:43.240
of what America is now, you know, I mean you
611
00:33:43.319 --> 00:33:45.960
have to wonder it gets down to the whole fight
612
00:33:46.039 --> 00:33:50.880
fire with fire thing, and which I kind of you'll
613
00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:54.359
hear me. I'm of mixed emotions here because I believe
614
00:33:54.440 --> 00:33:56.599
that the time has come to fight fire with fire,
615
00:33:56.640 --> 00:33:59.000
But I'm also aware that when you fight fire with fire,
616
00:33:59.039 --> 00:34:04.039
you burn down the house, you feel me, So it's
617
00:34:04.119 --> 00:34:06.880
kind of like, but that, but that's that's the choice
618
00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:10.880
that that the right, uh, the so called conservatives have
619
00:34:11.039 --> 00:34:13.559
forced this country into right now, force the rest of
620
00:34:13.639 --> 00:34:16.440
us into right now. Yeah, we need to fight fire
621
00:34:16.519 --> 00:34:18.920
with fire, but you're not going to have a house
622
00:34:19.000 --> 00:34:21.599
left when it's when it's done. Maybe, and maybe maybe
623
00:34:21.639 --> 00:34:22.280
that's the point.
624
00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:25.079
Well let me I hear your point line, because let
625
00:34:25.079 --> 00:34:27.239
me put some Leonard Pits on you. Eleonar Pitts Junior.
626
00:34:27.280 --> 00:34:28.920
Let me let me put some of you on you.
627
00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:32.760
This is the Leonary Pits Junior that I read earlier
628
00:34:32.760 --> 00:34:38.599
in this conversation. There is often punishment for stepping outside
629
00:34:38.639 --> 00:34:43.199
of privilege, often a price to be paid. Sometimes that
630
00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:47.320
price is quite high. That's what Leonard Pitts Junior wrote
631
00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:51.480
on Substack. The Clintons need to read that line. It's
632
00:34:51.480 --> 00:34:53.920
not about fighting fire with fire. With all the respect
633
00:34:53.960 --> 00:34:59.000
the Leonarpits Junior, It's about standing in your truth. If
634
00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:01.440
you say you're not going do it, because it is
635
00:35:01.840 --> 00:35:06.519
destroying our democracy to play this game they're playing, don't
636
00:35:06.559 --> 00:35:10.639
show up, so they vote again, So they cast a
637
00:35:10.719 --> 00:35:12.679
vote you found in contempt.
638
00:35:12.840 --> 00:35:13.239
So what.
639
00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:19.239
If the Clintons stand firm, like a tree planted by
640
00:35:19.320 --> 00:35:24.119
the water, they could be the impetus that people need
641
00:35:24.400 --> 00:35:27.360
to fight back even harder. They could be the wind
642
00:35:27.639 --> 00:35:32.480
beneath the wings, but not by caving. You said you
643
00:35:32.559 --> 00:35:37.159
weren't gonna do it. Stand in your truth, and whatever
644
00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:42.840
price needs to be paid, pay it. You're listening to Tavismut,
645
00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:44.519
I got two and a half minutes to go. I
646
00:35:44.559 --> 00:35:46.599
close on this note and give Leonda Pitch the final ward,
647
00:35:46.639 --> 00:35:50.239
as I always do. The spokesperson for the Clinton's had
648
00:35:50.280 --> 00:35:55.119
this to say about their one to eighty. They told
649
00:35:55.159 --> 00:35:58.199
you under oath what they know, but you don't care.
650
00:35:58.719 --> 00:36:02.400
Their attorneys, writing to the chairman, the Republican chairman James Coleman,
651
00:36:02.480 --> 00:36:05.400
Republican of Kentucky, they told you under oath what they know,
652
00:36:05.559 --> 00:36:08.679
but you don't care. But the former president and former
653
00:36:08.719 --> 00:36:12.519
Secretary of State will be there. They look forward to
654
00:36:12.559 --> 00:36:17.239
setting a precedent that applies to everyone. And that's where
655
00:36:17.280 --> 00:36:21.480
we cue the laugh track. They look forward to setting
656
00:36:21.519 --> 00:36:26.639
a precedent that applies to everyone. Are you serious? See
657
00:36:26.639 --> 00:36:29.559
this is the problem with Democrats. Do you honestly believe
658
00:36:29.599 --> 00:36:31.559
that because Bill and Hillary show up, they're going to
659
00:36:31.599 --> 00:36:34.760
set a precedent that applies to everybody else?
660
00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:36.880
Since win, do they ever.
661
00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:39.800
Play by the rules. That's the point that Leonard Pittsjunior
662
00:36:39.960 --> 00:36:42.559
just made. Trump gave them his middle finger and said,
663
00:36:42.599 --> 00:36:44.199
do what you wanted to just a pena, But I
664
00:36:44.239 --> 00:36:45.119
ain't showing up.
665
00:36:46.280 --> 00:36:49.599
So they really so they really believe that the.
666
00:36:49.519 --> 00:36:52.440
Clinton showing up, he's going to set up a standard,
667
00:36:52.840 --> 00:36:55.119
set a president that applies to everybody.
668
00:36:55.280 --> 00:36:57.000
Leonard, you can't be serious.
669
00:36:56.679 --> 00:37:01.039
Here boxing gloves at the knife fight. My as I
670
00:37:01.039 --> 00:37:04.400
said a moment ago, we're trying to restore a country
671
00:37:04.400 --> 00:37:06.039
that I don't think it's going to be restored. You know,
672
00:37:06.199 --> 00:37:08.039
it's interesting. I try to say this very quickly because
673
00:37:08.039 --> 00:37:09.800
I know you pressed for time. But one of the
674
00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:12.760
things that happened. Speaking of Abraham Lincoln in the Civil Wars,
675
00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:15.800
we were doing a moment ago is that he realized
676
00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:18.880
in eighteen sixty two that he could not restore the
677
00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:21.480
nation as it had been, which had been his goal.
678
00:37:21.760 --> 00:37:24.960
He had to found a new nation. And I think
679
00:37:25.039 --> 00:37:28.400
that needs to be our impetus. You know, as the left,
680
00:37:28.440 --> 00:37:30.480
we ain't We're not going back to where we were
681
00:37:30.519 --> 00:37:32.519
in two thousand and eight. That's gone. It's not going
682
00:37:32.559 --> 00:37:34.559
to happen. If this country's going to be saved, it's
683
00:37:34.599 --> 00:37:36.440
going to be a new country going forward.
684
00:37:36.639 --> 00:37:38.800
His writing is must read copy if you are not
685
00:37:38.840 --> 00:37:40.920
an Ounarpitch Junior fan. If you don't read his stuff,
686
00:37:41.119 --> 00:37:42.880
people always ask me, Tamas, what do you read? I
687
00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:45.360
read everything, but there are some people that I never
688
00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:48.400
missed reading. He's now on Substack, and I encourage you
689
00:37:48.440 --> 00:37:50.719
to just follow Leonny Pitch Junior and you can get
690
00:37:50.760 --> 00:37:54.000
this stuff more often on his substack page than you
691
00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:55.599
can get on this program. I get him as often
692
00:37:55.599 --> 00:37:57.159
as I can. But he's always writing, and I'm glad
693
00:37:57.199 --> 00:37:59.440
he's back to doing that along with his novels, because
694
00:37:59.480 --> 00:38:01.920
his voice was just missing, and there's nobody that writes
695
00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:04.679
with the kind of clarity that Leonard pits Junior writes with,
696
00:38:04.760 --> 00:38:06.519
and so I'm honored always to read his stuff, more
697
00:38:06.519 --> 00:38:08.599
delighted to have him on this program. Leonard, thanks for
698
00:38:08.639 --> 00:38:10.519
another hour man. We'll do it again. All the best, team.
699
00:38:11.039 --> 00:38:12.960
My pleasure to take care more of Tavis SMI when
700
00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:13.519
we come forward.