Swing Thoughts 305 for November 28, 2025

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Well, well, it's a miss exciting.
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You get a ship that gets read once again. Welcome
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to swing thoughts. It's been a couple of weeks from
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everyone's doing well. That sweet man.
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There is Tim O'Connor coach Tim O'Connor Golf dot ca A.
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That's who that is as well. I'm Howard of course
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golf spiritual Leader. For no other reason that I decided
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that I would call myself out, Timmy.
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It's been a while.
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It seems like it's funny I was thinking about today.
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It's only been a couple of weeks since we recorded.
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That's right, but it seems like a lifetime ago, because
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all of a sudden the weather turned. Golf season actually
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kind of wound down. The last time I played was
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November seventh. It's the twenty eighth of November as we
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record today. Have you been indoors teaching? Have you been
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doing your thing? What is that?
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What are you up to these days?
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Mostly writing? I'm writing a book proposal I talked about
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my my Tim kasrein My Firefighter Friend. I'm writing.
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A chapter on for that book proposal.
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But I'm also doing the mental game coaching that I've
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been doing with TJ. Atley out in BC and bas
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and working with her students. So that's really fun, really
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enjoying that that book, getting back to that, starting to
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get just starting to get inquiries for the indoor coaching.
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Yeah, back to that book.
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I die.
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I don't think people we haven't really you've told this story,
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but it's it's all about gratitude. This gentleman was a
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firefighter and the idea of putting, you know, putting into perspective.
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You know how golf is really insane magnificant when it
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comes to the bigger picture.
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Yeah, particularly when you go to fight a fire at
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a warehouse the size of a football field that you
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think is vacant, and you get there and you and
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your comrades start opening some doors and the building explodes
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and twenty feet of cinderblock falls on you and you
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break forty one bones, including your neck, and most people
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think you're going to be you're never going to survive.
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Well Tim did survive, and a year later he was
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at work. This year he played one hundred and.
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Sixty three rounds of golf well mix three and I
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love the story of the story of case anyone room
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you were.
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It was after a round of golf.
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You were particularly you know, pissed off about you know,
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out of character obviously, and you ran into him in
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the parking lot and you're like, oh, I'm all disgruntled
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and golf sucks and.
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Life is shit.
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And he's like, yeah, I had a building following me.
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What's your problem is that? Basically?
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Okay?
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Well exactly, no, Yeah, I was. I was having an
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absolute hissy fit after four putting the final green?
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How dare you?
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Club Championship? I was in contention, and of course, but
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twenty guys watched me do this. I total freak out.
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I'm in the parking lot and I'm like whipping my
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shoes in the back of the car and basically sending
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out energy. Stay the fuck away from me, everybody. And
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then I hear, hey, Tim, how is your day? Like,
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who's that around this fire Marshall?
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Bill.
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Yeah, I'm like this. I'm like a five year old
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with his pants down around his ankles, caught having a tantrum.
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And here's a guy who came back from like, you know,
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hell you know, so yeah, yeah, put things in perspective
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very quickly.
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Yeah.
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Absolutely, anyway, So that's that's great. We've I've gone indoors,
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a little bit with my golf, a lot of fitness.
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Of course.
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This program brought to you by Par for Success, Slash
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That I know.
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One in particular that I sort of met through Carl
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brent Reebis and I ran into him at the Canadian
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Senior Golf Association event in Montreal in the fallen and
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four Success dot Com Slash Humble and Fred Humble and
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Fred show, of course, the other show that I do
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when I'm not obsessing over golf, all right, it is
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with we had this idea that we would do and
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I think we've done this a couple of times in
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the decade that we've done the show where we've invited
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listeners of our program Swing Thought Devotees. We call them STDs.
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These are a particular people that are like ourselves, like
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minded that geek out, love to geek out about golf.
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One of our guests from Pennsylvania, David Linkhurst, David, welcome
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to the program. David's a friend of was a friend
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of George mcman mc namara's, as you mentioned, and you
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were a longtime PGA of America professional.
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David.
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Welcome to the show.
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Thank you for having me. Glad to be.
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Here along with somebody that you know. It's great what
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golf can do for you. That you know, this program
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has been so important to me and Tim, I'll say
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to me in particular in terms of reaching out and
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meeting people, and one in particular years ago, I was
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doing a lot of stuff around decade and I was
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helping listeners with their decade programs, and I ran into
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this gentleman and we become dear friends. From Chris pam Sis.
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That's a place in Canada, Dave, from Chris pam Sis.
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It's in the beautiful province of New Brunswick. It's Grant McDougall. Hello, Grant.
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I can just say I've never been proud of you
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pronouncing Chris Pempsis correctly. It was really really great. It
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took you a while.
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It took me along, well, it took me a long
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time to get over that. I just every time I
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said it, I wanted to say, Who's qis Pam pissed?
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Your pat answer whatever, wherever you're from.
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But having me, guys, I'm really excited to be here.
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And uh yeah, it's been a pleasure listening to you
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over the years and even more fun getting to know
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Howard over the years, and we have become good friends,
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played a lot of golf together and been through some things.
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Yeah, that's right, We've done, some things have happened, We've
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seen some stuff.
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So so Tim and I had this idea that we
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would have some of our listeners. And by the way,
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I've got some audio I'm going to play of another
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uh you know, big part of our program over the
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last few years, Ken Osborne as Scratch Attitude.
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So I've got a short clip of.
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Kent that I'm going to play, and then at some
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point I've got a longer piece where I sort of
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like a fireside chat with Ko and I think it's
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of interest. So I think we just start by saying
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welcome and guys, Dave Grant just jump in. How was
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uh how is your golf season? I think really really
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want to hear about your golf season. Any transformations, anything
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you heard on the show that resonated, any of the
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shows that you know you can think of that were
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particularly helpful, or some of our guests. But I'll start
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with you, Grant. You know I'm aware of your golf season,
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but why don't you sort of sum it up if
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you can in a couple of minutes.
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Sure, you know a lot of things have happened this season.
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I had what I would consider to be a really
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productive season where I've evolved my own game, gotten much
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better at tournament play. It's been a challenge over the
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years to match my tournament outcomes to what I feel
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my potentially is. It's no surprise, and that's a very
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common problem. But really thinking about this year, there's there's
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a few things that happened. I'll listen quite briefly in
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probably in order of importance. For the first summer of golf.
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My three boys have been playing. I've got to play
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with them three or four times this summer, and all
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three of them are just so in love with the game.
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They're all in their twenty now, and there are all
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three of them are really good athletes. The older two
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are really strong golfers, and the youngest one is coming along.
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But those are usually the highlights of my season. I
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get a picture on the first tea every time we
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play together, really enjoy it. They've all they all three
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of them have had some accomplishments this summer that that
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make me really proud and make me think back on
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the golf season in a way of gratitude and appreciation
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for what this game does for me, to bond with
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my boys and to be able to do something all
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four of us love.
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You know.
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And just quickly, I have to tell you Liam got
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a hole in one on a power four, the first,
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the first one in the hit in one hundred and
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thirty seven year history of the Riverside Country Club. My
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middle boy got a hole in one on a three
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hundred and twenty yard power four.
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That's crazy.
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Stuart got an albatross on a on a Part five
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early in June, and Callum, who is relatively new to
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the game, was able to change just develop his game
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to a point where he's getting close to be able
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to hit it as far as his brothers and compete
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with us. And it happened almost overnight, and it was
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really cool. But he's a strong athlete and a strong
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devotee of the game. So and just quickly my own accomplishments,
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I think I mentioned that I've evolved in tournament play,
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and I'll speak when I get the opportunity, is to
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the contributions what I've learned on listening to your show
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had made to that over the years. End this summer,
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there's been a number of things that have happened, but
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I've been able to detach my outcomes in tournament play,
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not completely, but I've lessened the attachment I had with
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my own personal self image to the outcomes that I
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make and the way that I think other people see
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me to the outcomes that I make in a tournament play,
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gradually whittling that down. It's still there, It's always going
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to be there. It's just made us such a significant
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difference in my ability to play better and my enjoyment
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of the game and to get the most out of
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those tournament situations.
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All right, well, thanks, Thanks Grant, Dave. You're such a
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student of the game. We've known each other for a
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number of years now, and I think that you you
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play obviously, but are you more sort of on the
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teaching side, and of how did that? I don't know,
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how is your balance of golf this year in terms
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of teaching and playing.
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I don't teach a whole lot. I do offer golf
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coaching where I'm at now Writing Country Club. Basically I
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retired a couple of years ago, but I worked today.
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I semi retired.
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I worked today's a week at Writing Country Club and
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they don't have anyone offering lessons, and so I do
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offer lessons, but I'm going to get a little bit
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more into it.
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Next year.
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We have do have new management taking over Writing Country Club,
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so that may evolve. But it's something that I am
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a student of the game, and I need to experience
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it more than just keep studying and applying it rather
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than just trying to always absorb.
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And this year, in particular.
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I recently was expanding my acceptance of a golf shot.
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In the past, when I was competitive, I stopped competing
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once my putting left me.
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On June thirtieth, two thousand and two.
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Not that it's that important, on the sixth hal the
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Red Course at Shawnee In in country clubs, it's so funny.
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I love the fact that you can remember that but
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probably can't be when was your wife's birthdays?
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Anyway, Yeah, it was devastating for me. I didn't touch
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a club for three months after that.
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But I and I didn't.
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Play a whole lot of golf for a few years,
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but started putting left handed for four years and I
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went back to right handed putting about two years.
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Now.
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I put better right handed, but I put so much
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freer left handed. And anyway, that's beside me, but my
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acceptance of when I was competing. If it wasn't perfect,
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I couldn't accept it, and I would beat myself up
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like a lot of us have. And so I'm drawn
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to these things of acceptance and gratitude. And I wish
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I had that when I was fourteen years old. I
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feel I would have been a better player. I certainly
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would have had less It wouldn't have affected me. I
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wouldn't have been so hard on myself, so of course.
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But last year, Tim, when you mentioned about thanking the
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golf course, being grateful for thanking the game of golf,
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I do that more and more now. I try to remember,
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and I thank my parents for starting me.
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In the game.
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You know, it's funny that that theme of acceptance, if
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you look at a through line of our ten years, Tim,
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you know, I think if you could sum up some
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of the lessons from swing thoughts, you know, maybe that's
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the book we should write Lessons from swing thoughts. Well,
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I would say back to your point, Dave, about you know,
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all of us being of a similar age, somewhere in
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our you know, somewhere on the back nine. And there's
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lots of life's lessons that I wish i'd have known
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in my thirties outside of the game of golf. But
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inside of the game of golf. Man, it's become evident
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the in fact, the older I get, the more evident
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it is that, you know, if in my thirties, in
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my early forties, when I was still when I was
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physically strong, if I could have known some of the
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things I know now about the nature of the game,
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the nature of gratitude around the game, the vibe that
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I have inside the game now is so different. And
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I've played a lot of golf with Grant, I've played
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some golf with Tim Dave, and you know, like, for
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the most part, you know, I rarely get too disgruntled
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anymore over a particular golf shot or a round of golf.
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And I think, and yeah, and I think that you know,
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on any given season of our show, that's kind of
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the takeaway, is it not? I mean, grant you hear.
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We talk about it all the time, you know, just
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the two of us, but about how much we enjoy
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just the activity of golf in a way that maybe
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I didn't really get even ten years ago when we
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started the show.
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I think it's there's no question that e've all over time,
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and there's a wisdom that comes with aging, where you're
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able to see your own actions and your own behaviors
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in a way that allows you to learn from them
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instead of constantly repeating them. But at the same time
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the magic of the game, Like just listening to Dave
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talk about here he is, you know, thinking about when
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he was fourteen being right now and thinking about ways
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he can get better, thinking about ways he can get
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out and start to compete, how can he teach again?
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And we all are the same, Like, I know that
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you're way better. You know, I've only heard the legend.
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I didn't know you back in the days when you
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would throw your seven iron into a tree and beat
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up the inside of your car.
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I'm only know that was only a couple of years
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ago with the car thing, but that's fairly recent, right.
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But I also I also know that you're still passionate
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about getting better and still upset when you don't perform
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to your potential and upset.
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It's different than devastated, though, I mean I used to be.
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And maybe Dave can relate to this. I know you can,
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grand but yeah, sure a particular shot might it might
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piss you off in the moment, but it doesn't devastate
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me the way. And I think a lot of our
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listeners are similar.
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Yeah, everybody's on the spectrum for sure.
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Dave, how's that for you in terms of your ability
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to hit a shot? Watch it sail into the farmer's
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field and realize, well, today's the day. I don't shoot
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them too well.
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Actually, the last round I played here running country Club
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last Thursday, and I'm sorry Sunday was anyway. I used
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one of Howard's sayings, we don't see that too often.
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That's right, you don't do that often. Yeah, that doesn't
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happen too much. Where'd that ball come from?
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That's a nice But the beauty of that is that
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there's some humor there, and it does. It's an articulation
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of that. Well, I'm not freaking out and I'm accepting it.
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It happens, so, yes, there I'm human whatever.
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Yes, And I like what Grant the term he used,
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whittling it down, because that's where I'm at too. It's
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so ingrained in me to be judgmental and to like
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or dislike, and I am whittling it down also.
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Yeah, yeah, I think the other thing that I see
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in guys of our age is the is a better
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understanding of the game and the acceptance of the fact that, yeah,
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you can hit one into the farmer's field, and the
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more you dwell on that, the less likely you are
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to make a difference over the next two or three holes.
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So it's not just an intellectual knowledge that accepting a
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bad bounce or a poor execution of a shot will
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help you. It's actually experiencing that and then realizing that
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a double bogie on number fourteen doesn't Like, everybody's going
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to make bad numbers, and your ability to reset, your
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ability to come back and not make another bad number,
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or even if you do not make a third bad number,
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like all that is just so important. And it's a
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skill that I think takes a lot of maturity and
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a lot of wisdom, a lot of experience to figure out,
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you know.
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Yeah, yeah, So Dave and I both have in common
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that we're huge fans of Fred Schumaker. And one of
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the things that Fred used to say is that understanding
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or thinking of something cognitively is the booby prize.
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That what you really win from is experience.
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And I think that's what you're talking about, Grant, is
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that we know intellectually as golf nerds, you know decades
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ago that oh, you have to do things like accept
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and let it flow.
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But we don't do it.
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Why because we're prisoners of our own our own past,
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and just parts of us we're not conscious of. But
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through experience you start to finally go, oh, well, it
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doesn't make any sense to hit it down the aforementioned
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into the farmer's field and then walk down the fairway
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beating yourself up and looking through your rolodex of swing thoughts.
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You've just been through that experience, and that experience is
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what allows us to go forward.
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Dave, I like to look at it as oh watch
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me now, watch me now bounce back after a double
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bogue or triple bogey. That's where I've been able to
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make the biggest in rows the last few years is.
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I've made a few sevens.
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And eights in the next toll made of two a
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number of times a part three. Of course I'm not
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long here. I don't get many chances at eagles. But anyway, yes,
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that's that's huge the last few years in particular.
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So is there any has there been anything I know
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how to put you on the spot.
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Maybe there isn't, but go overall, Grant, Has there been
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something from one of our guests this year or something
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on the show that particularly resonated with you, or something
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that you came up with yourself that you'd like to
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share that you know, something that clicked with you this season?
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I guess something that every show. A couple of things
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that stand out for me was listening to Dave Bunker
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talk about his week. Listening to him like that really
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illuminated for me what discipline and commitment to getting better is.
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The guy practices nine hours a week. And I was like,
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and so you know, Howard and I we've watched Dave perform,
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oly I get to see his results in national tournaments,
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and Howard talks about competing against him at the provincial level.
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And now you know, if the guys, if you're going
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to be a plus three or plus four whatever Dave is,
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I'm going to be in the top five hundred senior
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players in the world.
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Yeah it's no accident. Yeah, it's no accident that he's good.
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And yeah, you know, and.
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So I positioned that against where I'm at, and it
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leads to more acceptance of you know, my game is
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where it's at, But I don't have nine hours to practice,
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That's right, And it doesn't mean that I'm any less talented.
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It's about how much work can you put in to
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get to.
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That low level.
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Guys, stop you for a second, Grant, somebody's computer volume
397
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is up.
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That's why I can kind of hear it feeding back.
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It's okay.
400
00:21:11.240 --> 00:21:13.039
I think it might be TIMS because if you're not
401
00:21:13.079 --> 00:21:16.559
wearing your headphones, it's just going to sound like there's
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like a loop going on. Okay, yeah, Grant, you know
403
00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:21.119
it's funny. I got a chance to play with this guy,
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Dave Bunker, who I know. If you know Dave Link
405
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Cris Linkhorst, he's Bunker's one of the top seniors on
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planet Earth. Played in the US Senior Open a couple
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years ago, and you know, and if you saw him,
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00:21:31.319 --> 00:21:33.400
like you know, he's a good golfer and I played
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with him and it's like pretty cool to see it
410
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up close. But it's not like, Wow, I've never seen
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that before. But it's what you said, Grant. It's like,
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as I've said on the show, there's a big difference
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between people that are interested in getting better and people
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that are committed to getting better. And I always thought
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I was one of the people committed to getting better
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until he told me about practicing for nine hours a week.
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And I'm like, I'm not putting in nine hours a week.
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You know, I'm pretty good, but I'm not doing that. Well,
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here's here's one for you.
420
00:22:02.319 --> 00:22:05.720
So the aforementioned Fred Schoemaker said that he wanted to
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change his back swing by his swing plane by one inch,
422
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so he worked on it for nine months.
423
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Yeah, and she goes drinking game for how many times?
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Ten mentions Fred Schumaker.
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00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:21.680
Yeah exactly. Well, sorry exactly.
426
00:22:22.319 --> 00:22:25.119
But Dave, what what about in terms of your own
427
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game and what you observe in people that you've coached?
428
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What do you see in terms of the people who
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who get better? Because most people don't. Most people come
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to take lessons and the read books, and you know,
431
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take in vast amounts of information from YouTube, but they
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don't improve. So what do you see among people who
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do make improvements.
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Out of practice? Not far off to begin with.
435
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Fred was right and I said this when I submitted
436
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the third three hundredth episode thank You. Where once you
437
00:23:02.359 --> 00:23:06.079
achieve solid contact, golf universe opens up to you like
438
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you can't believe and you can get away with so
439
00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:14.279
much more. And so anyway to answer your question about
440
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people that get it, I don't see many people getting it.
441
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And I have one reason why, the biggest reason why
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I follow Fred and try to. I have to keep
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raiding myself back into the way he I was taught
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by George McNamarra to coach and enrolling them. It's so
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huge that what's going to happen here is we're going
446
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to look at your swing on video and it's just
447
00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:48.119
a representation of what it is, just what happened.
448
00:23:48.839 --> 00:23:49.400
And then.
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Help you with what is a blind spot or something
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that needs to grow your awareness to critical factors? And
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would that be enough? Would would that be worth your
452
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time in this lesson versus the old way of fixing
453
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or you're broken, and here's what you need to do,
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Here's the secret sauce. Rarely does the secret sauce ever
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work for me. It's so frustrating. My wife would know
456
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when I had a lesson that didn't go so well.
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I'd come home and I was despondent. Why couldn't I
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00:24:16.440 --> 00:24:18.680
get across to this student. It was so easy just
459
00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:21.319
to rotate your left arm or whatever. Why can't you
460
00:24:21.400 --> 00:24:27.359
do that? It takes so much to change. And it's
461
00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:28.960
the same thing in my game. Whenever I'm trying to
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00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:31.599
change something, it's like, really, it has to feel like
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that so I can appreciate what the student has to
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go through. So I have very few frustrating lessons. And
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that's the first thing that I got. I had actually
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met Fred and read his book back in the nineties
467
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and then working for starting with George in two thousand
468
00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:54.960
and fifteen. Two golf pros work together for not too long.
469
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They start talking about the golf swing golf lessons, and
470
00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:03.359
he said said, well, I don't have any frustrating lessons anymore.
471
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And I said, oh, you got me hooked. Now tell
472
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me more, because I had so many frustrating lessons even
473
00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:14.519
though we've got pretty good at diagnosing, and you're here
474
00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:18.559
and you should be here, it's not as difficult, but
475
00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:21.200
just how do you learn? Of course, Mike Hebrun's big
476
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on that how to creating situations where you're it's a
477
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safe environmental learn And so once I realized that you
478
00:25:30.440 --> 00:25:34.839
enroll the student by sitting them down and saying this
479
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first lesson is where all videotape or swing will go
480
00:25:39.039 --> 00:25:42.039
over it and we'll discuss some blind spots and help
481
00:25:42.119 --> 00:25:46.920
create awareness of how you can grow your awareness of
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these few critical factors. After that, then it's okay, Dave.
483
00:25:51.200 --> 00:25:53.000
Rather if you came to me for a lesson, Okay, Tim,
484
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what do you want to learn today? But the first lesson,
485
00:25:55.160 --> 00:26:00.400
I just go over their blind spots and if they yes,
486
00:26:00.519 --> 00:26:03.960
then you'll have success. And so I rarely have a
487
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frustrating lesson, but I will say the ones that I'm
488
00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:09.519
trying to fix or help their shanks or their slice
489
00:26:09.559 --> 00:26:12.440
every shot to try and make a change in their swing.
490
00:26:12.519 --> 00:26:16.480
It just it really still I have to keep railing
491
00:26:16.519 --> 00:26:17.319
myself back in.
492
00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:23.440
Well, I would say for me, if I look at
493
00:26:23.480 --> 00:26:27.599
my whole golf season, you know, in total, and you
494
00:26:27.640 --> 00:26:30.960
know I you know, I've definitely come to know that
495
00:26:32.119 --> 00:26:34.680
I don't play as well in the spring, as I
496
00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:36.880
do from the middle of the summer on. And I
497
00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:39.279
realized having this conversation with Ken Osborne, who I'm going
498
00:26:39.319 --> 00:26:41.319
to play a clip of in a second. You know,
499
00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:44.559
that is one of the realities of being where we
500
00:26:44.680 --> 00:26:47.839
live and the age we are, that it takes a
501
00:26:47.839 --> 00:26:51.319
little longer. The unfortunate thing about Ontario is that all
502
00:26:51.400 --> 00:26:55.039
the qualifiers for the biggest tournaments happened in May and
503
00:26:55.119 --> 00:26:58.279
early June. And I'm not really I realize now, just
504
00:26:58.400 --> 00:27:02.000
I'm I wasn't you know, I really wasn't in full flight.
505
00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:04.119
It took me a few months to get back at it.
506
00:27:05.640 --> 00:27:07.920
The biggest change I think I made, and I've talked
507
00:27:07.960 --> 00:27:09.880
about it on the show, and I've had a conversation
508
00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:12.720
with Grant recently about it, was this conversation I had
509
00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:16.039
with our friend Carl Morris. Let's pause that for a second,
510
00:27:16.039 --> 00:27:18.359
because you made me think of you know, you mentioned
511
00:27:18.680 --> 00:27:23.400
Dave Shoemaker's book, which is what Tim and I basically
512
00:27:24.079 --> 00:27:26.839
that's what we sort of jammed on to begin with
513
00:27:26.920 --> 00:27:30.079
when we first sat down to start talking about possibly
514
00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:30.519
doing a pod.
515
00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:32.440
Remember that, Tim, that was our first thing.
516
00:27:32.440 --> 00:27:34.480
Golf is out, not Golf is not a game of
517
00:27:34.519 --> 00:27:38.920
perfect but extraordinary, one of the first books I ever read.
518
00:27:39.039 --> 00:27:40.640
And of course we've had Fred on the show and
519
00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:43.559
it's amazing. But back to the idea of Carl sat
520
00:27:43.599 --> 00:27:45.599
me down in late summer and I said, I'm having
521
00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:48.839
I'm frustrated with the way I'm putting. And I was practicing,
522
00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:52.200
maybe not nine hours a week, I was practicing every day,
523
00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:53.640
and I had the putting mirror, and I was just
524
00:27:53.680 --> 00:27:55.960
so I was hitting lots of greens and I just
525
00:27:56.000 --> 00:27:57.720
couldn't get the ball in the hole. And I said
526
00:27:57.720 --> 00:28:00.759
to Carl and said, I gotta do something different. He said, well,
527
00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:02.839
how much of how different are we talking about? I said,
528
00:28:02.799 --> 00:28:06.119
I don't know. Maybe a grip change or what you did, Dave.
529
00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:07.880
I know a friend of mine puts left handed.
530
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:08.480
That's great.
531
00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:11.720
So the idea that I came up with, or we
532
00:28:11.799 --> 00:28:14.599
came up with, was heads up putting. And I can
533
00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:16.519
tell you, for the last two and a half months
534
00:28:16.519 --> 00:28:18.000
of the season, it's the.
535
00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:18.960
Best I've ever putted.
536
00:28:19.359 --> 00:28:22.920
Now, whether that lasts forever, I don't know, but I
537
00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:25.440
just I was just open to the idea of doing
538
00:28:25.480 --> 00:28:30.039
something different that looks different. You know, how many guys
539
00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:31.519
one of my friends. Don't tell you.
540
00:28:31.799 --> 00:28:33.640
Actually said this to me, Oh you don't tell me
541
00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:36.880
your night? Are you that guy? Now? I said, what
542
00:28:36.920 --> 00:28:39.559
does that even mean? Oh? You're that guy now? I said, dude,
543
00:28:39.559 --> 00:28:40.960
I've always been that guy.
544
00:28:41.319 --> 00:28:43.240
Have You're not paid. If you don't think I'm bad guy,
545
00:28:43.279 --> 00:28:45.920
you're not paying attention. The other thing that's happened to
546
00:28:45.960 --> 00:28:49.960
me many rounds where I would be heads up putting
547
00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:51.359
for fourteen fifteen.
548
00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:52.920
Holes, and then someone would know if you were looking
549
00:28:53.079 --> 00:28:54.680
you look at the hole while you're putting.
550
00:28:54.799 --> 00:28:58.039
Yes, heads up putting, Yes, yes, look at people me
551
00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:00.480
not get that? Okay, I thought you did though.
552
00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:05.079
But somebody would say to me at the fourteenth hole,
553
00:29:05.119 --> 00:29:08.400
have you been doing this all day? Yeah? Yeah, since
554
00:29:08.440 --> 00:29:11.079
the first hole because people. The thing is people don't
555
00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:15.200
really notice because they're focused completely on their own game.
556
00:29:16.480 --> 00:29:18.279
I'm not saying it should be for everybody, but I
557
00:29:18.680 --> 00:29:23.559
recently heard Sasha McKenzie on the No Laying Up podcast.
558
00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:24.519
You should listen to it.
559
00:29:24.880 --> 00:29:30.440
He basically says, the science undoubtedly favors putting while looking
560
00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:34.480
up like hands down, it's not even close, but most
561
00:29:34.519 --> 00:29:38.240
people won't do it because of how awkward they look.
562
00:29:39.519 --> 00:29:41.160
I know, you've tried it, Grant, you did it for
563
00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:42.519
a couple of seasons or a season.
564
00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:47.359
Yeah, no, And funnily enough, there's all kinds of different
565
00:29:47.359 --> 00:29:49.240
golfer is. The first time I went out on the
566
00:29:49.240 --> 00:29:50.960
course to do it, one of the guys I was
567
00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:53.960
playing with, Peter Maguire, as soon as I hit the putty, goes,
568
00:29:54.079 --> 00:29:58.200
what are you doing that now? Like right away, it
569
00:29:58.359 --> 00:30:01.839
was very different, and I've stayed with it. I stayed
570
00:30:01.839 --> 00:30:03.039
with it for the last month and a half of
571
00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:07.079
the season, not on every pot, but it was just experimenting.
572
00:30:07.160 --> 00:30:10.160
The competitive season was over and you know, still playing
573
00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:13.119
rounds of significance here and there, and I didn't notice
574
00:30:13.119 --> 00:30:16.519
the difference. It just allows you to be more athletic
575
00:30:16.599 --> 00:30:19.279
with the stroke and everything. Doctor Mackenzie said on that
576
00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:22.759
podcast that we both listened to reinforce the things that
577
00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:27.519
we know. It's just a much more athletic move and
578
00:30:28.079 --> 00:30:33.440
the science that he's done completely backs it up. So yeah,
579
00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:36.440
I wanted to just mention a couple of quick things
580
00:30:36.519 --> 00:30:38.720
about what I learned this year from the show. You
581
00:30:38.759 --> 00:30:43.440
guys did a couple of sessions on quiet eyes, and
582
00:30:43.480 --> 00:30:46.839
I was able to adopt that like immediately just a
583
00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:50.960
subtle hesitation, a one or two second pause before pulling
584
00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:56.119
the trigger, and it just feels so good. It feels
585
00:30:56.240 --> 00:30:57.000
it feels.
586
00:30:56.680 --> 00:31:00.279
Like you're able to execute better, but you're also able
587
00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:04.319
to post shot, sit back, and instead of reacting emotionally
588
00:31:04.400 --> 00:31:07.319
to whatever happens, it just brings such a great.
589
00:31:09.279 --> 00:31:11.839
Mindfulness to the game. The quiet eyes piece.
590
00:31:12.119 --> 00:31:14.279
I'm going to jump in there because that's really interesting
591
00:31:14.359 --> 00:31:17.880
because we were just talking a moment ago about looking
592
00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:23.119
at the hole. In quiet eyes, you in essence fixed
593
00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:26.359
your gaze, usually on the back of the ball. And
594
00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:29.440
part of it is you sort of allow your gaze,
595
00:31:29.880 --> 00:31:32.440
as I say, to sort of gather on that spot,
596
00:31:32.559 --> 00:31:38.000
and then once the putt goes, you maintain your gaze
597
00:31:38.039 --> 00:31:41.519
on that spot. And so, Dave, I'm going to ask
598
00:31:41.559 --> 00:31:46.319
you how about this, because that connects to an exercise
599
00:31:46.359 --> 00:31:50.759
I learned from Take Another drink, mister Schumaker, the retinal
600
00:31:50.880 --> 00:31:56.319
after image exercise, and where you maintain your focus on,
601
00:31:56.599 --> 00:32:00.200
say a dimple where the sun is shining off the
602
00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:03.599
t and titleist or whatever, and once the ball is gone,
603
00:32:04.039 --> 00:32:06.480
you keep your eyes there and what usually happens is
604
00:32:06.759 --> 00:32:09.839
you see a little gray circle and that's the retinal
605
00:32:09.920 --> 00:32:13.079
after image. But the core to it is you mentioned
606
00:32:14.200 --> 00:32:17.839
Grant the word mindfulness, and that to me, it allows
607
00:32:17.960 --> 00:32:21.160
us to have a very quiet mind. Hence why that
608
00:32:21.240 --> 00:32:24.799
quiet eye saying works so nicely. But there's all different
609
00:32:24.799 --> 00:32:28.799
ways to play this game, so look at the whole.
610
00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:31.000
To me, that's like, you know, as if you had
611
00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:34.119
a rifle, that you were actually looking at your target,
612
00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:36.279
whereas in golf we're not looking at a target.
613
00:32:36.319 --> 00:32:37.960
That's the weird thing about it.
614
00:32:38.359 --> 00:32:40.519
But I don't know, Dave, how do you connect in
615
00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:42.960
terms of a guy who's you know, you've had your
616
00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:47.039
traumas with putting, and how do you connect to what
617
00:32:47.079 --> 00:32:50.599
we've been talking about these different ways to approach the
618
00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:53.200
game in terms of quiet your mind and maybe just
619
00:32:54.119 --> 00:32:56.440
make a better stroke without thinking about your stroke.
620
00:32:57.440 --> 00:33:00.759
Yes, I tend to hit too quickly, not take enough
621
00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:03.839
time for whatever reasons, if it's a slow play or what.
622
00:33:03.880 --> 00:33:05.559
But get it over quick.
623
00:33:05.599 --> 00:33:11.240
Maybe is perhaps why I always played fast. And I
624
00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:14.880
actually this year Grant reminded me about something. This year
625
00:33:14.920 --> 00:33:19.039
I started because of your three seconds with the quiet eye.
626
00:33:19.400 --> 00:33:23.519
I started to take more time over a shot and
627
00:33:23.599 --> 00:33:28.799
not rush. But I have a great story about the
628
00:33:29.559 --> 00:33:35.839
retinal after image. I helped PGA Hope this year over
629
00:33:35.839 --> 00:33:38.440
the last couple of years, and one of the veterans
630
00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:43.200
I was doing a putting segment and I did I
631
00:33:43.240 --> 00:33:45.720
did the after image, and of.
632
00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:47.680
Course I always asked, well, what was the takeaway? What
633
00:33:47.920 --> 00:33:49.039
are we learning here? Why?
634
00:33:49.279 --> 00:33:52.039
And or people will say, well, what's this all about?
635
00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:55.720
And so we'll talk about it, and so I explained
636
00:33:56.119 --> 00:33:58.720
the after image. We got down and looked at the ball,
637
00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:02.039
pulled it away and saw the after image, and one veteran,
638
00:34:02.119 --> 00:34:02.960
Terry's name.
639
00:34:02.880 --> 00:34:05.640
Was said, that's the soul of the golf ball.
640
00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:07.839
I was like, Wow, love that.
641
00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:10.679
I couldn't wait to get home an email French shrewmaker.
642
00:34:10.880 --> 00:34:13.039
It took him a little while to reply, but he
643
00:34:13.400 --> 00:34:15.719
did enjoy that, and so I was, so I said,
644
00:34:15.880 --> 00:34:18.280
I'm going to use that.
645
00:34:18.280 --> 00:34:23.440
That is hilarious. Yeah, But you know, with putting, I
646
00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:25.239
mean there is a part of the game where that's
647
00:34:25.280 --> 00:34:29.039
where we we can get so emotional. Howard has mentioned
648
00:34:29.079 --> 00:34:33.480
before that with Doctor Pryor is that the closer we
649
00:34:33.519 --> 00:34:36.679
get to the hole, the more we tend to be
650
00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:39.440
emotionally volatile. Because the closer he gets a whole, the
651
00:34:39.440 --> 00:34:42.280
more invested we are in, you know, getting it in
652
00:34:42.320 --> 00:34:45.360
the hole and that kind of thing. So, Grant, how
653
00:34:45.360 --> 00:34:50.320
have you been about this in your own putting, because
654
00:34:50.320 --> 00:34:52.320
that's you know, when you're trying to score in tournaments,
655
00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:55.000
that makes the difference. How have you been in terms
656
00:34:55.039 --> 00:34:58.840
of your own ability to just get on the green
657
00:34:58.920 --> 00:35:01.840
and say no, not have the thought about got to
658
00:35:01.880 --> 00:35:04.920
get this close, don't leave it short, don't three putt again?
659
00:35:05.079 --> 00:35:07.760
How do you balance those? How do you deal with
660
00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:10.320
those gremblins and keep them quiet if you're able to.
661
00:35:11.840 --> 00:35:12.119
Well.
662
00:35:13.039 --> 00:35:17.000
I've always been a pretty good feel putter, and distance
663
00:35:17.039 --> 00:35:20.360
control has always been the strength of my game with
664
00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:25.159
respect to putting. I've never been one to be too
665
00:35:25.239 --> 00:35:27.559
nerved out about putting. I wish I could. I can't
666
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:30.039
get on the green fast enough with respect to my
667
00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:33.800
overall game, because I've got some gaps in my full
668
00:35:33.840 --> 00:35:37.719
swing that you know, I've been picking away at. But
669
00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:41.440
once I'm on the green, I'm usually pretty comfortable. I
670
00:35:41.440 --> 00:35:43.679
wish I was better from four to twelve feet. I
671
00:35:43.679 --> 00:35:47.320
don't think I make enough of those and adopting the
672
00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:51.280
heads up. I don't have any data, but my experience
673
00:35:51.360 --> 00:35:57.000
has been that more are going in and the quiet
674
00:35:57.039 --> 00:35:59.400
eyes things works with heads up putting. You just pause
675
00:35:59.480 --> 00:36:01.800
for a second. You're just not looking at the ball.
676
00:36:01.840 --> 00:36:03.360
You're looking at the spot on the green where you
677
00:36:03.360 --> 00:36:05.719
want the ball to go. It's not always the hole.
678
00:36:05.800 --> 00:36:08.239
Sometimes if there's break, you're looking at a particular point
679
00:36:08.360 --> 00:36:10.519
left or right of the hole, or shorter long of
680
00:36:10.519 --> 00:36:13.320
the hole. But at the end of the day, the
681
00:36:13.400 --> 00:36:16.159
same thing applies. You pause for a minute, make sure
682
00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:18.800
you've got the target fixed in your mind, and then
683
00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:21.880
I've recently developed this other focal points stuff from Jim Waldron,
684
00:36:21.960 --> 00:36:27.920
but to me, it's been great. I think there's definite
685
00:36:27.960 --> 00:36:30.519
advantages to looking up and looking at your target.
686
00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:32.920
Before we let you guys go, I thought it would
687
00:36:32.960 --> 00:36:37.159
be fun for you to hear what scratch attitude Ken Osborne.
688
00:36:37.239 --> 00:36:39.079
This is about a five minute clip, so if you
689
00:36:39.079 --> 00:36:43.039
would just pause and have it listen to see. I
690
00:36:43.079 --> 00:36:45.280
basically said to Kent the same thing as we've asked
691
00:36:45.320 --> 00:36:47.000
you guys. You know, talk a little bit about your
692
00:36:47.000 --> 00:36:51.880
season and what were your thoughts. So I'm asking you Quent, Quent,
693
00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:56.039
fuck Quent, Quent. That's a good name.
694
00:36:57.280 --> 00:36:58.199
I'll just leak that in.
695
00:37:00.519 --> 00:37:01.400
So I'll ask.
696
00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:08.360
I'll ask you quint, what about the twenty twenty five
697
00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:12.199
golf season. Give me some of your reflections and takeaways.
698
00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:17.199
Well, I think, in the main Howard, it was a
699
00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:24.199
season of not walking my talk. And I think too,
700
00:37:26.440 --> 00:37:29.559
I think to you, I kind of understand how that happened.
701
00:37:30.960 --> 00:37:33.840
You got to go back to twenty twenty four. And
702
00:37:33.880 --> 00:37:36.679
in twenty twenty four I had the best tournament season
703
00:37:36.679 --> 00:37:38.079
of my life.
704
00:37:39.039 --> 00:37:41.280
You know, one of our senior.
705
00:37:41.039 --> 00:37:45.639
Club championship, you know, was part of a team I
706
00:37:46.199 --> 00:37:49.320
carried some hack to win, you know, to win the
707
00:37:49.800 --> 00:37:50.880
club link shootout.
708
00:37:51.400 --> 00:37:53.320
Yes, I remember that. I remember that well.
709
00:37:53.960 --> 00:37:57.719
Yeah, But you know, overall, there was just a lot
710
00:37:57.760 --> 00:37:59.400
of a lot of really.
711
00:37:59.599 --> 00:38:02.760
Special moments for me, you know, in the in the year.
712
00:38:04.639 --> 00:38:06.440
So naturally.
713
00:38:08.559 --> 00:38:12.440
One finishes that year by sort of going, hey, let's
714
00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:17.039
make twenty twenty five bigger and better. And then I
715
00:38:17.119 --> 00:38:22.320
moved away from I moved away from my knitting, and
716
00:38:23.440 --> 00:38:27.559
maybe for all the right reasons, Like I I set
717
00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:31.159
a goal. I thought, hey, you know, man, you're turning
718
00:38:31.199 --> 00:38:34.280
seventy years old and you still hit the ball. You
719
00:38:34.360 --> 00:38:37.159
hit the ball far enough to win the Ontario over
720
00:38:37.239 --> 00:38:40.280
seventy Maybe that should be your goal. Maybe that should
721
00:38:40.280 --> 00:38:44.920
be your plan. Let's you know, let's let's go all
722
00:38:44.920 --> 00:38:48.840
in on that. Let's let's visualize, meditate all that kind
723
00:38:48.880 --> 00:38:50.119
of stuff, and.
724
00:38:52.599 --> 00:38:57.320
You know, yeah, it just it's just I think.
725
00:38:58.599 --> 00:39:02.920
As sum level added a layer of stress and added
726
00:39:02.920 --> 00:39:04.920
the layer of expectation.
727
00:39:05.920 --> 00:39:09.480
And that combined with a.
728
00:39:11.000 --> 00:39:16.480
Combined with the wrong shaft and my driver, led to
729
00:39:16.519 --> 00:39:20.559
a season where I I really struggled with hooking the
730
00:39:20.599 --> 00:39:23.159
ball off the team and.
731
00:39:23.199 --> 00:39:26.000
I would I mean, that's that's my miss.
732
00:39:26.039 --> 00:39:29.079
So you know, at the best of times, I can,
733
00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:32.440
I can have a hook here and there, but this
734
00:39:32.639 --> 00:39:36.280
was this was crazy. Like in our two day Club
735
00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:43.360
championship in early July or late June, I think I hooked.
736
00:39:44.360 --> 00:39:49.119
I hooked seven drives in two days, like way into
737
00:39:49.159 --> 00:39:54.119
the cabbage. Yeah we're talking, you know, a hunt and
738
00:39:54.159 --> 00:39:56.400
dog wouldn't have found them if I'm a rapid bacon
739
00:39:56.480 --> 00:39:56.920
type of thing.
740
00:39:57.159 --> 00:39:59.920
I mean, I mean long gone.
741
00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:07.480
So yeah, And that came about because you know, I
742
00:40:07.519 --> 00:40:09.679
thought at the beginning of the season, oh, you know,
743
00:40:11.119 --> 00:40:13.199
I hooked the ball every now and then, maybe I
744
00:40:13.199 --> 00:40:15.679
should get a different shaft in my driver. You know,
745
00:40:15.760 --> 00:40:20.639
I go to the big box store, you know, I
746
00:40:20.679 --> 00:40:22.760
have a different shaft in there that seems to be
747
00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:25.079
a little better. I buy that shaft and I play
748
00:40:25.119 --> 00:40:27.159
with it for most of the year.
749
00:40:28.039 --> 00:40:28.960
Until I then.
750
00:40:30.679 --> 00:40:35.079
In the last week of August to basically go to
751
00:40:35.119 --> 00:40:37.800
this guy who is a real expert, and he looks
752
00:40:37.840 --> 00:40:40.400
at me and says, you couldn't depict the worst shaft
753
00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:45.159
for you there, Matt, And suddenly you know, the hooking
754
00:40:45.239 --> 00:40:46.079
is back to normal.
755
00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:53.639
So interesting that you talk about expectations and you know
756
00:40:53.679 --> 00:40:55.599
you're not the first player to do it and to
757
00:40:55.679 --> 00:40:58.920
have have a great season. Then then follow it up
758
00:40:58.960 --> 00:41:00.840
with you know, I mean, not as great a season.
759
00:41:01.760 --> 00:41:05.760
But how do you square or mitigate somebody who's saying, well,
760
00:41:05.840 --> 00:41:08.559
but shouldn't you set goals, or shouldn't we have as
761
00:41:08.719 --> 00:41:10.159
shouldn't we be aspirational?
762
00:41:11.800 --> 00:41:14.000
Well, I can only tell you what works for me
763
00:41:14.599 --> 00:41:17.400
or what has worked for me and for me because
764
00:41:17.440 --> 00:41:20.960
I gained I came to golf so late. It was,
765
00:41:23.719 --> 00:41:26.920
you know, I had I had no illusions that I
766
00:41:26.960 --> 00:41:29.679
was going to be a pro. I had no really
767
00:41:30.039 --> 00:41:33.599
no expectations that even become you know, a half decent
768
00:41:33.599 --> 00:41:36.599
club level player. I was just there purely for recreation
769
00:41:38.480 --> 00:41:45.800
and for me, the more I can just focus on
770
00:41:45.920 --> 00:41:48.880
you know what, I'm going to play and I'm going
771
00:41:48.920 --> 00:41:50.840
to practice because I love to play and I love
772
00:41:50.920 --> 00:41:55.079
the practice and I've got some skill, and let's see
773
00:41:55.119 --> 00:41:55.679
what happens.
774
00:41:57.559 --> 00:41:59.800
We're going to play a little bit more of my fire.
775
00:42:00.079 --> 00:42:01.880
I chat with Ken at the end of the show,
776
00:42:01.960 --> 00:42:04.320
but I love what he said about expectations. And I
777
00:42:04.360 --> 00:42:07.440
don't know if that's that resonates with you guys, but
778
00:42:07.480 --> 00:42:11.199
it certainly did with me. I I it's hard. That's
779
00:42:11.199 --> 00:42:12.280
what I was trying to get at the end. I
780
00:42:12.280 --> 00:42:13.880
wanted and I wanted to throw it to you guys.
781
00:42:14.320 --> 00:42:18.119
How do you square being aspirational as we all are
782
00:42:18.159 --> 00:42:21.079
at golfers, interested in committed to getting better, and yet
783
00:42:21.840 --> 00:42:25.320
mitigate our expectations with the realities of our age and
784
00:42:25.360 --> 00:42:27.719
our stage and how much time we can put in.
785
00:42:28.519 --> 00:42:30.400
It's like you want and we talk about this all
786
00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:33.880
the time, Timmy, about the craving mind. How do you
787
00:42:33.920 --> 00:42:36.840
how do you how do you mitigate the craving to
788
00:42:36.880 --> 00:42:40.320
be better with the acceptance and the gratitude grant.
789
00:42:42.280 --> 00:42:45.800
I think it's a skill and uh what what Kent
790
00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:52.159
talked about, this thing of rising expectations with improved outcomes
791
00:42:52.639 --> 00:42:55.360
like it happened to me this summer. I went into
792
00:42:55.400 --> 00:42:59.360
the Provincial Senior Amateur with a goal of qualifying for
793
00:42:59.519 --> 00:43:02.039
the Canadian and Senior which would have meant about a
794
00:43:02.119 --> 00:43:07.599
top twelve finish and would have required probably a seventy
795
00:43:07.599 --> 00:43:11.440
five and a couple of seventy six is. And the
796
00:43:11.480 --> 00:43:14.320
first round I went out and I missed about three
797
00:43:14.440 --> 00:43:17.400
short potts and I shot seventy five and I'm tied
798
00:43:17.960 --> 00:43:23.119
tied for seventh place after the first round. And I've
799
00:43:23.119 --> 00:43:27.079
never been in that situation before. I've shot good rounds
800
00:43:27.079 --> 00:43:30.320
as the Provincial Senior before, but only after I've screwed
801
00:43:30.320 --> 00:43:32.320
it up in the first round or whatever, like, after
802
00:43:32.360 --> 00:43:35.239
I've shot myself out of contention. And so the next
803
00:43:35.320 --> 00:43:38.880
day I go to the course and I'm thinking, I
804
00:43:38.920 --> 00:43:41.039
just didn't know how to handle it. And you know,
805
00:43:41.079 --> 00:43:43.360
I talked to a few people, you included Howard who
806
00:43:44.719 --> 00:43:46.360
The bottom line is you need to be in that
807
00:43:46.440 --> 00:43:49.360
situation and experience it and understand where the gap showed up.
808
00:43:50.119 --> 00:43:52.400
But it's a really hard thing. It requires a lot
809
00:43:52.440 --> 00:43:56.639
of mental strength and mindfulness to pull yourself out of
810
00:43:57.280 --> 00:43:59.519
this thing where all you're thinking about is shooting another
811
00:43:59.559 --> 00:44:01.960
seventy I've as an opposed to just doing the raps,
812
00:44:02.239 --> 00:44:06.599
staying in your process intellectually, we all know that we
813
00:44:06.639 --> 00:44:10.360
talked about that earlier, but executing it's another thing. And
814
00:44:10.719 --> 00:44:13.440
having been through that, I feel like it was such
815
00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:15.440
a profound lesson for me. I can't wait to be
816
00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:16.519
in the situation again.
817
00:44:17.159 --> 00:44:19.559
So, Dave, what's your experience with that in terms of
818
00:44:19.920 --> 00:44:25.360
expectations and playing in tournaments? And as Kent and both
819
00:44:25.400 --> 00:44:29.039
Grants said, you have goals, and to me, I think
820
00:44:29.079 --> 00:44:31.079
they kind of they work against us most of the time.
821
00:44:31.119 --> 00:44:33.239
I get to that later, But Dave, what's your experience.
822
00:44:33.599 --> 00:44:35.760
Well, yes, it's nice to have goals. It's fine, I
823
00:44:35.760 --> 00:44:38.920
have goals, but you need to say, Okay, how am
824
00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:40.360
I going to achieve those rather than just say I'm
825
00:44:40.360 --> 00:44:44.079
going to win the US Open or even qualify, or
826
00:44:44.239 --> 00:44:45.599
how are you going to get there? Okay, I'm gonna
827
00:44:45.719 --> 00:44:47.280
I'm gonna work on my short game more.
828
00:44:47.320 --> 00:44:47.760
I'm going to.
829
00:44:50.039 --> 00:44:53.920
Work on the skills that I'm lacking. I'm not going
830
00:44:53.920 --> 00:44:57.400
to practice just the good parts. And and then I
831
00:44:57.480 --> 00:44:59.239
like what Grant said there about you just staying in
832
00:44:59.239 --> 00:45:03.239
your appreciat with team. Well, one thing I did want
833
00:45:03.239 --> 00:45:07.400
to say is I went over this past years and
834
00:45:07.440 --> 00:45:10.760
a half of your guests, and one reason why I
835
00:45:10.800 --> 00:45:14.360
really enjoy your show is because it's not about the
836
00:45:14.400 --> 00:45:17.440
swing and and it's to improve your golf game and
837
00:45:17.519 --> 00:45:20.079
enjoyment of it. Also, I start going down just in
838
00:45:20.119 --> 00:45:25.280
the first year year and a half, and it's.
839
00:45:25.960 --> 00:45:27.239
In particular.
840
00:45:29.800 --> 00:45:35.800
I really liked what Susie Myers did from uh point
841
00:45:36.039 --> 00:45:40.599
Golf from point A is a great book, and so
842
00:45:40.719 --> 00:45:44.079
many guests you had over the last when I've been
843
00:45:44.119 --> 00:45:46.400
listening for a number of years, but just in going
844
00:45:46.440 --> 00:45:48.599
over this past year and a half, and I didn't
845
00:45:48.599 --> 00:45:51.079
even get down to where George mcamah and Fred Schumaker
846
00:45:51.079 --> 00:45:51.960
and Mike Cambrin were.
847
00:45:53.440 --> 00:45:54.599
I've heard their shows.
848
00:45:55.400 --> 00:45:58.400
Anyway, I just keep doing what you're doing, and really
849
00:45:58.559 --> 00:45:59.679
you have a listener for life here.
850
00:45:59.719 --> 00:46:02.079
I'm inn std Well, I appreciate that, David and what
851
00:46:02.199 --> 00:46:04.000
I was sort of wrap it up and Tim and
852
00:46:04.039 --> 00:46:06.480
I will finish off as we normally do. Tim many
853
00:46:06.480 --> 00:46:10.000
final thoughts for our guest. Grant McDougal from New Brunswick
854
00:46:10.199 --> 00:46:13.000
plays at the Riverside Golf Course, which is an amazing
855
00:46:13.960 --> 00:46:16.039
I want to say Stanley Thompson course, but no, is
856
00:46:16.039 --> 00:46:16.840
that Ron Ross?
857
00:46:16.880 --> 00:46:17.480
Donald Ross.
858
00:46:17.480 --> 00:46:19.280
That's right, and he's pretty good.
859
00:46:19.360 --> 00:46:23.119
He's pretty good. And David you mentioned I think it
860
00:46:23.239 --> 00:46:25.679
was you mentioned the golf course.
861
00:46:25.719 --> 00:46:26.400
You're a memor at.
862
00:46:26.440 --> 00:46:30.280
I think it's a reading credit country Club. Thanks very
863
00:46:30.320 --> 00:46:32.559
much for being here, Timny final thoughts, thank you.
864
00:46:33.199 --> 00:46:37.079
Yeah, well, I mean thanks to guys like Grant and
865
00:46:37.199 --> 00:46:42.800
Day for being in STDs, getting emails and comments and
866
00:46:43.039 --> 00:46:48.119
it helps us know what resonates for us. And but
867
00:46:48.199 --> 00:46:50.119
I like what, Dave, what you said in terms of
868
00:46:51.199 --> 00:46:54.519
I think what maybe what we've been able to carve
869
00:46:54.599 --> 00:46:58.039
out in this space, and Golf Podcast is looking at
870
00:46:58.280 --> 00:47:01.920
golf from a from a zooming out a little bit
871
00:47:02.079 --> 00:47:04.320
in terms of it's not just about you know where
872
00:47:04.320 --> 00:47:07.360
your elbow goes and your your left knee or whatever,
873
00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:10.880
but how does this apply to to your life in
874
00:47:10.880 --> 00:47:15.519
general and those types of things and so yeah, so
875
00:47:15.800 --> 00:47:17.800
you know, thanks for being great listeners and thanks for
876
00:47:17.840 --> 00:47:21.639
your feedback. It it really helps us in terms of where.
877
00:47:21.639 --> 00:47:24.800
I could just quickly close off by saying I'd rather
878
00:47:24.920 --> 00:47:26.599
be an STD than have an STD.
879
00:47:27.000 --> 00:47:28.880
Excellent, That's what I wanted to hear.
880
00:47:29.360 --> 00:47:32.559
Okay, there's there's there's the first T shirt there's our.
881
00:47:32.440 --> 00:47:33.320
Merch right there.
882
00:47:33.400 --> 00:47:33.880
That's right.
883
00:47:34.960 --> 00:47:37.800
Well, not to overshare, but I've experienced both and one
884
00:47:37.880 --> 00:47:38.719
is way more fun than me.
885
00:47:38.840 --> 00:47:42.119
End no, no, no, I think we've got time go
886
00:47:42.159 --> 00:47:45.039
ahead to maybe explain all right, listen, grab it.
887
00:47:45.280 --> 00:47:47.719
I also wanted to say yes. I also wanted to
888
00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:50.639
say that all the guests you've had on over the years,
889
00:47:50.679 --> 00:47:53.119
and I've listened for a long time as well, what
890
00:47:53.280 --> 00:47:55.880
I get the most out of and what initially attracted
891
00:47:55.880 --> 00:47:59.920
me to the show was hearing Howard's real stories and
892
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:02.719
how vulnerable and transparent he is and sharing how he
893
00:48:02.760 --> 00:48:06.880
feels because he is all of us. He is the
894
00:48:06.880 --> 00:48:09.159
guy that's trying to perform well in the tournament and
895
00:48:09.199 --> 00:48:13.199
has devoted way more time and energy than his results show,
896
00:48:13.760 --> 00:48:16.840
and he continues to grow. And the humorous way that
897
00:48:16.880 --> 00:48:20.440
you guys interact and you kind of hold Howard's hand
898
00:48:20.440 --> 00:48:23.039
through a lot of these experiences, tim is where the
899
00:48:23.039 --> 00:48:24.679
real magic of the show is.
900
00:48:24.920 --> 00:48:25.159
To me.
901
00:48:25.800 --> 00:48:27.239
Wow, it's very kind of you to say that.
902
00:48:27.239 --> 00:48:30.679
Thank you, Graham, McDougal, Dave Link Course, all the best
903
00:48:30.679 --> 00:48:35.119
and happy holidays. I know it's American Thanksgiving. Since we're
904
00:48:35.159 --> 00:48:38.199
recording this on the twenty eighth, It'll be tomorrow. As
905
00:48:38.239 --> 00:48:40.519
I say to all my American friends, stay strong, David,
906
00:48:40.519 --> 00:48:41.320
It'll be over soon.
907
00:48:43.400 --> 00:48:47.159
All the best to you. And this is that awkward
908
00:48:47.199 --> 00:48:48.519
moment I was telling you guys about.
909
00:48:48.360 --> 00:48:49.480
What at all?
910
00:48:51.519 --> 00:48:55.320
Thanks Grant, thank you. Yeah, there you go.
911
00:48:56.239 --> 00:48:58.840
Well that was fun and that was a great line.
912
00:48:59.039 --> 00:48:59.920
I'd rather be an.
913
00:49:01.360 --> 00:49:02.280
CD. I love that.
914
00:49:02.360 --> 00:49:04.960
There you go that that would be perfect on a teach.
915
00:49:05.239 --> 00:49:06.320
I also listen.
916
00:49:06.400 --> 00:49:09.719
I like the I like the idea of lessons, the
917
00:49:10.039 --> 00:49:13.800
lessons from Swing Thoughts or something like that, because after
918
00:49:13.920 --> 00:49:19.000
three hundred plus episodes, you know, I know you're working
919
00:49:19.039 --> 00:49:21.199
on another book, but there's got to be some time
920
00:49:21.239 --> 00:49:23.000
before we hang it up. We've got to just put
921
00:49:23.039 --> 00:49:28.719
out something, a compendium of lessons learned lessons learned from
922
00:49:28.840 --> 00:49:33.480
Swing Thoughts, which is a weirdly ironic title.
923
00:49:34.239 --> 00:49:37.719
Yeah, but in over ten years and more than three
924
00:49:37.760 --> 00:49:42.199
hundred episodes, we've it's bound to have happened that we
925
00:49:42.280 --> 00:49:50.159
said something worthwhile. That's right, Yeah, there's there's something there
926
00:49:50.159 --> 00:49:51.679
a few if we really look hard.
927
00:49:51.639 --> 00:49:52.400
It's funny.
928
00:49:52.760 --> 00:49:58.039
Well not listen, if we we've probably stumbled stumbled upon
929
00:49:58.159 --> 00:50:01.320
a couple of ideas. But the the guests we've had, Like,
930
00:50:01.360 --> 00:50:05.360
you know, Dave referenced Michael Hebron, there was a time
931
00:50:05.400 --> 00:50:10.360
where I was so enamored with that guy, Hebron and Shoemaker,
932
00:50:10.440 --> 00:50:13.719
Like I was lucky enough through the show to have
933
00:50:13.760 --> 00:50:17.679
a couple of calls with with Fred. Could have never
934
00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:20.239
imagine that when I picked up his book thirty years ago,
935
00:50:20.360 --> 00:50:23.280
that you know, there was a there was a mechanism
936
00:50:23.360 --> 00:50:26.519
to actually talk to Fred Shoemaker and Carl Morris and
937
00:50:26.639 --> 00:50:31.320
Ed Cogg Collins and you know all these guys. David
938
00:50:31.400 --> 00:50:33.320
Ledbetter was on the show a couple of times, which
939
00:50:33.360 --> 00:50:35.039
is weird but cool.
940
00:50:38.119 --> 00:50:40.599
Yeah, I mean, and that's one of the things that
941
00:50:42.079 --> 00:50:46.320
continue to be really fun is that we keep happening
942
00:50:46.440 --> 00:50:52.119
upon these really interesting people, most recently Marcus Bell. Yes,
943
00:50:52.199 --> 00:50:53.920
we have to get him back on as we just
944
00:50:54.119 --> 00:50:56.599
I mean, he tried to shoehorn so much in the
945
00:50:57.159 --> 00:50:59.559
right you know.
946
00:50:58.639 --> 00:51:01.280
Everybody tell everybody to you and verusl feedback. We've had
947
00:51:01.360 --> 00:51:04.360
hibout Marcus. That was great, But.
948
00:51:04.800 --> 00:51:05.559
What did he say?
949
00:51:07.519 --> 00:51:09.280
You know, he said, what do you mean? Yeah, well,
950
00:51:09.400 --> 00:51:12.159
there's a lot of information there, but it was just
951
00:51:12.239 --> 00:51:15.199
hard to digest. And he was like, oh, talk about
952
00:51:15.199 --> 00:51:18.119
a stallion that's just bolted out of the barn. It
953
00:51:18.159 --> 00:51:20.679
was like hard to apply the rings. I listened to that,
954
00:51:20.840 --> 00:51:25.239
back to that show a couple of times. It's like, uh, Marcus, Mark, Marcus,
955
00:51:25.360 --> 00:51:27.840
I know I had to listen. I had interject. I mean,
956
00:51:28.199 --> 00:51:29.000
bless the guy.
957
00:51:29.280 --> 00:51:30.960
A week and a half ago, I had an online
958
00:51:31.039 --> 00:51:31.599
lesson with him.
959
00:51:31.599 --> 00:51:34.960
He's just working with me this winter, and it was similar,
960
00:51:35.079 --> 00:51:36.559
Like it was forty five minutes.
961
00:51:37.199 --> 00:51:41.840
And I'll just tell you, like that appearance didn't do
962
00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:42.760
him justice.
963
00:51:43.199 --> 00:51:46.400
No, go and look at his YouTube channel GRF Golf,
964
00:51:46.840 --> 00:51:51.159
and I can tell you this. It continues to be
965
00:51:51.599 --> 00:51:54.320
a very unique at golf experience for me. Because we
966
00:51:54.360 --> 00:51:56.760
did a forty five minute lesson. I didn't I hit one.
967
00:51:57.199 --> 00:51:59.840
I made one swing with the golf club. The rest
968
00:51:59.840 --> 00:52:06.440
of time it was all just exercises, body motions, science
969
00:52:06.480 --> 00:52:09.239
stuff that had nothing to do well, sorry, that's wrong.
970
00:52:09.480 --> 00:52:11.559
It had something to do with my golf swing, but
971
00:52:11.639 --> 00:52:14.199
I wasn't making golf swings while I was doing it.
972
00:52:14.199 --> 00:52:17.360
It's just very easy. His approach, as you heard.
973
00:52:17.199 --> 00:52:20.199
On our show, is very unique, but he's a very
974
00:52:20.239 --> 00:52:21.039
different cat.
975
00:52:21.760 --> 00:52:24.239
Yeah yeah, well, I think I'll just tee off on
976
00:52:24.239 --> 00:52:24.559
that one.
977
00:52:24.559 --> 00:52:25.039
If you will.
978
00:52:25.039 --> 00:52:28.960
But I think that's what makes our show pretty darn
979
00:52:29.039 --> 00:52:32.400
good is that we look at things in a different
980
00:52:32.440 --> 00:52:35.800
way than a lot of things. I mean, there's a
981
00:52:35.840 --> 00:52:39.559
lot of great stuff that's out there, but we carved
982
00:52:39.559 --> 00:52:43.519
out our own little space. And so you and I
983
00:52:43.599 --> 00:52:47.119
are generally attracted to people what we'll call kind of
984
00:52:47.159 --> 00:52:49.840
like outliers, people who are doing some things that aren't
985
00:52:49.880 --> 00:52:52.960
part of the golf mainstream, but there's something there, like
986
00:52:53.119 --> 00:52:59.760
Gabriel Wolf talking about some brewer exactly talking about her
987
00:52:59.840 --> 00:53:03.599
with external focus and that kind of thing. And even
988
00:53:03.679 --> 00:53:06.559
and really up to our last show with Jim Waldron,
989
00:53:07.400 --> 00:53:10.360
I had a person who who sent me a note
990
00:53:10.559 --> 00:53:12.679
and said, in terms of the things we were talking
991
00:53:12.679 --> 00:53:18.239
about Jim Waldron, he said, they're on. That's on, you know,
992
00:53:18.280 --> 00:53:21.280
the cutting edge of it's a cliche of golf. I mean,
993
00:53:21.320 --> 00:53:24.679
it's changing from this thing of like come in and
994
00:53:24.840 --> 00:53:26.920
watch you know the pro leans on a seven are
995
00:53:27.039 --> 00:53:29.360
and says, now you're taking it outside and you're you've
996
00:53:29.360 --> 00:53:31.199
got an open club face. Do this come back in
997
00:53:31.199 --> 00:53:33.960
two weeks. And part of what we've talked about in
998
00:53:33.960 --> 00:53:37.400
our show is that approach doesn't really work. But that's
999
00:53:37.440 --> 00:53:40.400
the model. That's the model of that we see on
1000
00:53:40.440 --> 00:53:43.079
YouTube and Instagram is just if you just do this,
1001
00:53:43.320 --> 00:53:46.559
you'll fix your swing. And it's just never thus so
1002
00:53:47.639 --> 00:53:51.400
we'll keep pissing in the wind. Whatever. But I think
1003
00:53:51.480 --> 00:53:53.519
that's the fun part is that we get some really
1004
00:53:53.599 --> 00:53:57.280
interesting people who are doing some different things based in
1005
00:53:57.400 --> 00:54:02.920
science and stretch be on the kind of the kind
1006
00:54:02.920 --> 00:54:04.639
of accepted boundaries of golf.
1007
00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:08.119
And I would say all that to quote you one
1008
00:54:08.199 --> 00:54:11.599
hundred percent, that to be another I've started doing that
1009
00:54:11.760 --> 00:54:13.159
on the Humble and Fred show this week. I don't
1010
00:54:13.159 --> 00:54:14.360
know why, all of a sudden, I've just been saying
1011
00:54:14.360 --> 00:54:16.239
to Fred only one hundred percent, and I'm like, where
1012
00:54:16.239 --> 00:54:16.440
do I?
1013
00:54:16.480 --> 00:54:17.280
Oh, that's O'Connor.
1014
00:54:18.119 --> 00:54:22.480
But I would say, as nice as Grant's words about
1015
00:54:22.639 --> 00:54:24.719
maybe the role that I have on the show is
1016
00:54:24.760 --> 00:54:27.440
that I am I am that guy. I have a
1017
00:54:27.480 --> 00:54:29.519
toe in. I have a toe in the other side,
1018
00:54:29.519 --> 00:54:34.119
which is your domain. But I think that you're what
1019
00:54:34.280 --> 00:54:37.400
makes the magic for a lot of listeners. By the way,
1020
00:54:37.519 --> 00:54:39.719
this isn't it sounds like we're dying. Okay, this is
1021
00:54:39.719 --> 00:54:42.880
what it was like. This was swing. This is not
1022
00:54:42.920 --> 00:54:45.320
the last show. But since we're talking about it. You
1023
00:54:45.360 --> 00:54:47.760
look you look healthy. I feel healthy. I feel great.
1024
00:54:48.000 --> 00:54:49.880
How's your hip, by the way, still bugging you?
1025
00:54:50.800 --> 00:54:51.400
Coming along?
1026
00:54:51.440 --> 00:54:52.039
All right? Good?
1027
00:54:53.280 --> 00:54:55.360
But I was going to say, like the fact that
1028
00:54:55.440 --> 00:54:58.199
you're the kind of guy that you are has has
1029
00:54:58.320 --> 00:54:59.199
opened up.
1030
00:55:00.079 --> 00:55:03.639
It opens up the portal that we we walk through.
1031
00:55:03.679 --> 00:55:06.079
It opens up this portal for having the kind of
1032
00:55:06.119 --> 00:55:09.280
conversations we have. You know, you and I are kindred
1033
00:55:09.360 --> 00:55:11.960
spirits that way. I'm very open, as grantsed, like, I'm
1034
00:55:11.960 --> 00:55:15.079
happy to share. You know, I'm happy to share all
1035
00:55:15.079 --> 00:55:17.599
the shitty things that I've done and things that have
1036
00:55:17.679 --> 00:55:18.159
happened to me.
1037
00:55:18.199 --> 00:55:19.800
And you know, I I.
1038
00:55:21.320 --> 00:55:24.440
That exists because you make it so easy for me,
1039
00:55:25.280 --> 00:55:28.840
and we we have a welcoming feeling with our guests
1040
00:55:28.840 --> 00:55:31.400
that it doesn't sound like I listened to a bunch
1041
00:55:31.400 --> 00:55:33.920
of golf shows this week. Grant turned me on to
1042
00:55:34.800 --> 00:55:37.599
Sashie Mackenzie on No Laying Up to because of the
1043
00:55:37.679 --> 00:55:41.719
heads up putting thing. And I hear how other golf
1044
00:55:41.760 --> 00:55:44.559
podcasters interact with your guests, and it's not like this.
1045
00:55:45.639 --> 00:55:48.639
They don't share, or if they do share a little
1046
00:55:48.639 --> 00:55:51.079
bit of their foibles, not in the same way that
1047
00:55:51.119 --> 00:55:51.480
we do.
1048
00:55:52.000 --> 00:55:52.559
You know, we've got.
1049
00:55:52.599 --> 00:55:55.440
We've got a unique offering here, and it's as you said,
1050
00:55:55.480 --> 00:55:58.719
it's heart. It does us heart, It makes our hearts
1051
00:55:59.039 --> 00:56:01.800
feel good when you all react the way you do,
1052
00:56:01.920 --> 00:56:04.400
it's heartening is what I was looking for. Well, the
1053
00:56:04.440 --> 00:56:07.280
way that our audience reacts to the show. And that's
1054
00:56:07.320 --> 00:56:09.159
why we're doing it. I mean, for a number of reasons.
1055
00:56:09.199 --> 00:56:11.280
But it makes it feel great, is what I'm jonna say.
1056
00:56:12.239 --> 00:56:16.519
It isn't for the wheelbarrow of cash that are delivered
1057
00:56:16.559 --> 00:56:19.199
every time we do a show any for that reason.
1058
00:56:19.199 --> 00:56:23.000
That's faah, there's no wheelbarrow anymore, all right, Tim River,
1059
00:56:23.079 --> 00:56:24.840
I was there, never was.
1060
00:56:24.880 --> 00:56:28.480
That's right. Listen, kids, So what.
1061
00:56:29.239 --> 00:56:31.320
You're going to hear on the podcast and on the
1062
00:56:31.360 --> 00:56:34.400
YouTube is you're going to hear us say goodbye. But
1063
00:56:34.480 --> 00:56:38.960
as the music of Dire Straits fades down, don't go away.
1064
00:56:39.000 --> 00:56:43.440
There's another twenty ish minutes. And I did this last
1065
00:56:43.519 --> 00:56:44.960
year and I just thought it was kind of interesting
1066
00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:46.480
because I had a chance to talk to Kent and
1067
00:56:46.480 --> 00:56:48.840
he couldn't be on the show today. But he's a
1068
00:56:48.960 --> 00:56:50.599
he's a bright guy, and he's a guy that Tim
1069
00:56:50.639 --> 00:56:54.000
and I both respect and like. And you'll hear this
1070
00:56:54.079 --> 00:56:58.519
conversation I had with him after the music fades. Okay, everybody,
1071
00:56:58.639 --> 00:57:01.159
and if you're watching on YouTube, you won't hear that,
1072
00:57:01.360 --> 00:57:02.639
but you can go back and.
1073
00:57:02.639 --> 00:57:07.639
Download the podcast. Okay, anything else, young man?
1074
00:57:08.280 --> 00:57:10.280
Oh, I just wanted to say you said some kind
1075
00:57:10.320 --> 00:57:13.199
things there, so I just say thanks very much. And
1076
00:57:13.280 --> 00:57:16.119
as we're coming to the close of our tenth season,
1077
00:57:17.159 --> 00:57:20.719
you've always been really patient and gentle with me bringing
1078
00:57:20.760 --> 00:57:22.960
me along. Because you're a plus handicap broadcaster.
1079
00:57:23.199 --> 00:57:24.840
I could be more gentle. I'll try and be more
1080
00:57:24.840 --> 00:57:32.559
gentle in twenty six. Thank you, well, thank you.
1081
00:57:33.159 --> 00:57:34.719
And this isn't the last show. I guess we'll do
1082
00:57:34.760 --> 00:57:35.360
one more.
1083
00:57:35.880 --> 00:57:38.559
Yeah, yeah, before Christmas, we'll do our Yeah, we'll do
1084
00:57:38.639 --> 00:57:46.599
our final show of twenty twenty five, and yeah we'll
1085
00:57:46.599 --> 00:57:47.320
talk some golf.
1086
00:57:47.480 --> 00:57:49.639
There'll be some golf stuff, all right.
1087
00:57:49.679 --> 00:57:50.239
Absolutely.
1088
00:57:51.559 --> 00:57:54.760
Thanks to Dave and Grant and Kent, and thanks to
1089
00:57:54.800 --> 00:57:57.840
you all for tuning in u STDs. I love that.
1090
00:57:58.519 --> 00:58:02.039
Rather be an STD than have it STV fantastic.
1091
00:58:02.559 --> 00:58:06.199
Tim O'Connor O'Connor golf dot ca A check out his
1092
00:58:06.280 --> 00:58:10.719
sub stack and for coaching inquiries go there. And of
1093
00:58:10.719 --> 00:58:13.440
course his program is produced by the Humble and Fred Show.
1094
00:58:13.480 --> 00:58:16.519
Go to Humble and Fred Radio dot com or download
1095
00:58:16.559 --> 00:58:19.519
the program on Spotify and we'll see you all in
1096
00:58:19.519 --> 00:58:20.199
a couple of weeks.
1097
00:58:21.159 --> 00:58:24.119
I just bill in Dixie, never bot.
1098
00:58:27.360 --> 00:58:28.000
Beat all right.
1099
00:58:28.599 --> 00:58:28.960
When you.
1100
00:58:33.440 --> 00:58:38.119
And I think too, I think to you kind of
1101
00:58:38.239 --> 00:58:41.760
understand how that happened. You got to go back to
1102
00:58:41.800 --> 00:58:45.519
twenty twenty four. And at twenty twenty four, I had
1103
00:58:45.559 --> 00:58:50.280
the best tournament season of my life. You know, one
1104
00:58:50.320 --> 00:58:55.079
of our Senior club championship, you know, was part of
1105
00:58:55.159 --> 00:58:58.639
a team I carried some hack to win, you know,
1106
00:58:58.920 --> 00:59:00.840
to win the club blank shootout.
1107
00:59:01.400 --> 00:59:03.199
Yes, I remember that. I remember that well.
1108
00:59:03.960 --> 00:59:07.639
Yeah, But you know, overall, there was just a lot
1109
00:59:07.760 --> 00:59:11.400
of a lot of really special moments for me, you know,
1110
00:59:11.760 --> 00:59:12.719
in the in the year.
1111
00:59:14.639 --> 00:59:16.360
So naturally.
1112
00:59:18.559 --> 00:59:22.400
One finishes that year by sort of going, hey, let's
1113
00:59:22.480 --> 00:59:27.000
make twenty twenty five bigger and better. And then I
1114
00:59:27.159 --> 00:59:32.119
moved away from I moved away from my knitting, and
1115
00:59:33.480 --> 00:59:35.199
maybe for all the right reasons, Like I.
1116
00:59:37.159 --> 00:59:38.000
I set a goal.
1117
00:59:38.440 --> 00:59:41.880
I thought, hey, you know, man, you're turning seventy years
1118
00:59:41.920 --> 00:59:44.559
old and you still hit the ball. You hit the
1119
00:59:44.599 --> 00:59:48.360
ball far enough to win the Ontario over seventy Maybe
1120
00:59:48.599 --> 00:59:49.480
that should be your goal.
1121
00:59:49.639 --> 00:59:50.800
Maybe that should be your plan.
1122
00:59:51.039 --> 00:59:55.320
Let's you know, let's let's go all in on that,
1123
00:59:55.519 --> 00:59:58.559
let's let's visualize, meditate all that.
1124
00:59:58.719 --> 01:00:06.400
Kind of stuff, and you know, yeah, it's just it's
1125
01:00:06.440 --> 01:00:07.239
just I think.
1126
01:00:08.639 --> 01:00:12.880
At some level added a layer of stress and added
1127
01:00:12.920 --> 01:00:21.480
the layer of expectation, and that, combined with a combined
1128
01:00:21.519 --> 01:00:26.599
with the wrong shaft and my driver, led to a
1129
01:00:26.679 --> 01:00:30.800
season where I I really struggled with hooking the ball
1130
01:00:30.880 --> 01:00:31.639
off the team.
1131
01:00:32.840 --> 01:00:36.079
And I would I mean, that's that's my miss. So
1132
01:00:37.400 --> 01:00:38.960
you know, at the best of times.
1133
01:00:38.719 --> 01:00:41.719
I can, I can have a hook here and there,
1134
01:00:41.840 --> 01:00:45.199
but this was this was crazy. Like in our two
1135
01:00:45.280 --> 01:00:52.400
day Club championship in early July or late June, I
1136
01:00:52.559 --> 01:00:57.239
think I hooked. I hooked seven drives in two days,
1137
01:00:58.400 --> 01:01:01.880
like way into the cabbage, like out of play. Yeah
1138
01:01:02.159 --> 01:01:05.039
we're talking. You know, a hunting dog wouldn't have found
1139
01:01:05.079 --> 01:01:07.000
him if I'm a rapid vacant type of thing, you
1140
01:01:07.039 --> 01:01:12.920
know what I mean, I mean long gone. So yeah,
1141
01:01:13.039 --> 01:01:18.079
and that came about because you know, I thought, at
1142
01:01:18.119 --> 01:01:21.599
the beginning of the season, oh, you know, I hooked
1143
01:01:21.599 --> 01:01:23.599
the ball every now and then, maybe I should get
1144
01:01:23.599 --> 01:01:25.960
a different shaft in my driver. You know, I go
1145
01:01:26.079 --> 01:01:30.880
to the big box store. You know, I have a
1146
01:01:30.920 --> 01:01:33.400
different shaft in there that seems to be a little better.
1147
01:01:33.599 --> 01:01:36.079
I buy that shaft and I play with it for
1148
01:01:36.239 --> 01:01:43.239
most of the year until I then in the last
1149
01:01:43.280 --> 01:01:45.639
week of August to basically go to this guy who
1150
01:01:45.760 --> 01:01:48.440
is a real expert, and he looks at me and says,
1151
01:01:48.639 --> 01:01:49.719
you couldn't depicted the.
1152
01:01:49.800 --> 01:01:54.079
Worst shaft for you there, man, And suddenly, you know,
1153
01:01:54.679 --> 01:01:56.039
the hooking is back to normal.
1154
01:01:57.760 --> 01:02:03.599
So interesting that you talk about expectations and you know
1155
01:02:03.679 --> 01:02:05.280
you're not the first player to do it and to
1156
01:02:05.679 --> 01:02:08.920
have have a great season, and then follow it up
1157
01:02:08.960 --> 01:02:10.800
with you know, I mean, not as great as season.
1158
01:02:11.760 --> 01:02:14.320
But how do you square or mitigate.
1159
01:02:14.840 --> 01:02:17.320
Somebody who's saying, well, but shouldn't you set goals or
1160
01:02:17.360 --> 01:02:20.119
shouldn't we have as shouldn't we be aspirational?
1161
01:02:21.800 --> 01:02:23.960
Well, I can only tell you what works for me,
1162
01:02:24.599 --> 01:02:27.400
or what has worked for me and for me because
1163
01:02:27.440 --> 01:02:30.880
I gained I came to golf so late. It was,
1164
01:02:33.719 --> 01:02:36.840
you know, I had I had no illusions that I
1165
01:02:37.000 --> 01:02:39.599
was going to be a pro. I had no really
1166
01:02:40.039 --> 01:02:43.800
no expectations, not even become you know, a half decent.
1167
01:02:43.639 --> 01:02:47.079
Club level player. I was just there purely for recreation.
1168
01:02:48.480 --> 01:02:55.679
And for me, the more I can just focus on,
1169
01:02:55.920 --> 01:02:58.880
you know what, I'm going to play and I'm going
1170
01:02:58.920 --> 01:03:00.840
to practice because I love the play and I love
1171
01:03:00.960 --> 01:03:05.119
the practice and I've got some skill and let's see
1172
01:03:05.119 --> 01:03:14.960
what happens. Yeah, the more, you know, I just I'm
1173
01:03:15.000 --> 01:03:19.000
able to do my scratch attitude thing with you know,
1174
01:03:19.159 --> 01:03:22.119
I'm able to enjoy my best shots and accept my
1175
01:03:22.239 --> 01:03:22.760
worst and.
1176
01:03:25.360 --> 01:03:28.039
You know, things unfold pretty well.
1177
01:03:28.480 --> 01:03:29.400
Well, let's talk about that.
1178
01:03:33.039 --> 01:03:34.880
I'm just having a cough drop here for people who
1179
01:03:35.000 --> 01:03:38.400
don't really know the you know, the history of our saga,
1180
01:03:41.239 --> 01:03:44.159
the saga of the two Googurus. I've spent a lot
1181
01:03:44.159 --> 01:03:45.440
of time. You and I have spent a lot of
1182
01:03:45.480 --> 01:03:51.079
time having these conversations. I always tell the story of
1183
01:03:51.320 --> 01:03:54.559
a couple of springs ago. We took a road trip
1184
01:03:54.639 --> 01:03:56.440
to you and I and some of our friends from
1185
01:03:56.519 --> 01:04:01.760
Downey's Fat Grant who's on the show today, and you
1186
01:04:01.840 --> 01:04:03.480
and I were in the car for fourteen hours.
1187
01:04:04.239 --> 01:04:07.039
I was telling the story. Two things that stuck out.
1188
01:04:07.440 --> 01:04:10.719
We spent fourteen hours in a car, and really the
1189
01:04:10.880 --> 01:04:12.880
longest we'd ever spent with each other other than a
1190
01:04:12.960 --> 01:04:16.360
golf course, and never turned the radio on once, didn't
1191
01:04:16.400 --> 01:04:19.960
listen to a podcast. We just talked like this NonStop
1192
01:04:20.119 --> 01:04:22.920
for fourteen hours. So that was one thing that stuck out.
1193
01:04:22.960 --> 01:04:25.119
The other one was I'm driving and you're in the
1194
01:04:25.159 --> 01:04:28.800
passenger seat and my right shoulder, which was next to
1195
01:04:28.880 --> 01:04:34.800
your left arm, got bruised because you kept you kept
1196
01:04:35.320 --> 01:04:37.559
tapping me to try and get my attention, and finally
1197
01:04:37.639 --> 01:04:39.960
I said, dude, I'm right here. You've got my intention.
1198
01:04:41.239 --> 01:04:45.000
So that aside, I love these conversations that we have,
1199
01:04:45.119 --> 01:04:47.400
and just like last year, we had sort of a
1200
01:04:48.239 --> 01:04:50.639
just the two of us having a conversation, and I
1201
01:04:50.719 --> 01:04:53.079
thought we'd expand on some of the things that we
1202
01:04:53.280 --> 01:04:57.599
just played on the show. And that is just remind
1203
01:04:57.639 --> 01:05:01.239
everybody when you say, you know the tenets of your
1204
01:05:01.280 --> 01:05:03.239
scratch and dude, what are those exactly?
1205
01:05:06.079 --> 01:05:07.280
Well, I would say that.
1206
01:05:10.159 --> 01:05:11.199
It's it's.
1207
01:05:12.719 --> 01:05:18.760
Seeing the reality of the game. And for me, you know,
1208
01:05:20.559 --> 01:05:21.599
golf is recreation.
1209
01:05:23.800 --> 01:05:27.760
I'm there to I'm there to, you know, have fun
1210
01:05:28.079 --> 01:05:32.800
when it's my turn to play, period, And no amount
1211
01:05:32.880 --> 01:05:36.400
of desire or and no amount of striving and no
1212
01:05:36.519 --> 01:05:39.440
amount of anything changes that fact that I pay to play.
1213
01:05:43.039 --> 01:05:46.400
That's one another reality of the game. Is that golf
1214
01:05:46.519 --> 01:05:50.400
is difficult. I mean, it's it's difficult for the pros,
1215
01:05:50.480 --> 01:05:54.000
for God's sake. So I'm not going to play around
1216
01:05:54.039 --> 01:05:57.519
the golf without whether a mis hit or a missput.
1217
01:05:59.000 --> 01:06:02.000
You know, that's just the way it is. And then I,
1218
01:06:03.239 --> 01:06:05.400
you know, I have some inner rules that I attempt
1219
01:06:05.440 --> 01:06:11.119
to adhere to with things like, you know, ground my
1220
01:06:11.199 --> 01:06:16.239
game and gratitude and you know, have fun when it's
1221
01:06:16.239 --> 01:06:20.079
your turn to play and never ever showt on yourself.
1222
01:06:19.840 --> 01:06:20.559
That kind of stuff.
1223
01:06:20.679 --> 01:06:24.320
So that was was that some of the disappointment you
1224
01:06:24.440 --> 01:06:31.360
felt or were you able to adhere to those that
1225
01:06:32.000 --> 01:06:32.639
those rules?
1226
01:06:32.760 --> 01:06:33.400
Were you able to.
1227
01:06:34.920 --> 01:06:37.880
Yeah? I think, I mean, it's not a black or
1228
01:06:37.920 --> 01:06:38.719
white thing. Howard.
1229
01:06:38.840 --> 01:06:43.440
I think I probably went from being because I like
1230
01:06:43.519 --> 01:06:45.559
to play tournaments. It's not as just my score is
1231
01:06:45.599 --> 01:06:50.159
not important. But I went from being an eighty twenty
1232
01:06:50.239 --> 01:06:53.719
guy to a twenty eighty guy. Explain that, well, I
1233
01:06:53.800 --> 01:06:58.159
went from being eighty percent oriented or mostly oriented towards
1234
01:06:58.840 --> 01:07:01.760
you know, being greatful to be there playing with freedom
1235
01:07:01.800 --> 01:07:07.440
and joy and you know, accepting reality and also being
1236
01:07:07.559 --> 01:07:10.480
oriented to shooting the lower score I could possibly shoot,
1237
01:07:12.400 --> 01:07:17.719
to flipping that around unwittingly and being so oriented to
1238
01:07:17.840 --> 01:07:23.199
shooting this low score that my scratch attitude shrunk, right.
1239
01:07:25.960 --> 01:07:30.559
You know, it's interesting that and I've observed this phenomenon.
1240
01:07:31.039 --> 01:07:33.800
What I was going to say is it's interesting how
1241
01:07:33.880 --> 01:07:38.880
much playing well can inform your attitude. You know, people
1242
01:07:39.239 --> 01:07:41.360
might say, hey, it's easy to have a great scratch
1243
01:07:41.360 --> 01:07:44.800
attitude when you know, in twenty twenty four you played great.
1244
01:07:45.440 --> 01:07:47.679
You and I want a tournament together. You won your
1245
01:07:47.760 --> 01:07:52.159
club championship, played great in the provincial championships, and why
1246
01:07:52.280 --> 01:07:55.000
not like when you were telling me, you know, over
1247
01:07:55.079 --> 01:07:57.760
the winter into the early part of last year or
1248
01:07:57.840 --> 01:08:00.199
this year, I should say, you know, what's your goals where?
1249
01:08:00.199 --> 01:08:04.320
And they all seemed reasonable, but you know, the best
1250
01:08:04.400 --> 01:08:07.599
laid plans, et cetera, et cetera. So the thing that
1251
01:08:07.679 --> 01:08:09.079
I was going to say that i've observed that it
1252
01:08:09.360 --> 01:08:13.360
makes me laugh sometimes. Has he ever noticed somebody when
1253
01:08:13.360 --> 01:08:16.439
they've hit a really good shot into the green, how
1254
01:08:16.520 --> 01:08:19.560
much more careful they are fixing ballmarks and you know,
1255
01:08:19.840 --> 01:08:22.520
smoothing things over. But if they've hit a shitty shot
1256
01:08:22.640 --> 01:08:26.560
of the green, sometimes they'll ignore their ballmark or you know,
1257
01:08:27.399 --> 01:08:29.760
put their clubs down roughly. But I just think it's
1258
01:08:29.760 --> 01:08:31.680
funny words. It sort of goes to the idea that,
1259
01:08:32.319 --> 01:08:35.720
you know, it's all easy. Everything's easy in golf until
1260
01:08:35.760 --> 01:08:38.560
it's not. And the problem with it the game, one
1261
01:08:38.600 --> 01:08:41.279
of the many problems is when it's easy, we never
1262
01:08:41.359 --> 01:08:45.119
think it's going to be difficult again. And conversely, when
1263
01:08:45.159 --> 01:08:50.439
it's not, when it's a struggle, sometimes we forget that.
1264
01:08:50.880 --> 01:08:53.399
You know, golf has a cycle. There's like a like
1265
01:08:53.479 --> 01:08:55.840
the seasons you're going, it will come back to you.
1266
01:08:56.520 --> 01:08:58.359
It just depends on how patient you are.
1267
01:09:01.000 --> 01:09:04.560
Yeah, all true. And for me, the.
1268
01:09:06.600 --> 01:09:09.960
The disappointment I think was moving away from it, was
1269
01:09:10.079 --> 01:09:15.800
getting out of my lane, was allowing myself to move
1270
01:09:15.920 --> 01:09:21.680
away from the you know, the approach that really worked
1271
01:09:21.720 --> 01:09:25.000
for me worked in terms of my satisfaction and also
1272
01:09:25.199 --> 01:09:27.920
I think, although I can't prove it, you know, worked
1273
01:09:27.960 --> 01:09:29.000
in terms of my scores.
1274
01:09:30.439 --> 01:09:34.640
Oh, I would say that, Oh, you know, And Tim
1275
01:09:34.760 --> 01:09:37.680
talks a lot about the I can't remember who was
1276
01:09:37.720 --> 01:09:39.840
we interviewed over the last ten years. It might have
1277
01:09:39.880 --> 01:09:41.640
been it was one of these guys, non golf guy.
1278
01:09:41.920 --> 01:09:43.800
Tim will know, but he talked about the crew. It
1279
01:09:43.880 --> 01:09:46.760
might have been Judson Brewer talking about the craving mind
1280
01:09:48.239 --> 01:09:52.680
and how you know that's what happens to golfers. We
1281
01:09:52.840 --> 01:09:56.680
we we're craving and we're we're in that mode of
1282
01:09:56.800 --> 01:10:01.800
craving and whatever you're you know, ogma is it's can
1283
01:10:01.920 --> 01:10:07.000
it can be easily set aside when things start going bad. Yeah,
1284
01:10:07.520 --> 01:10:10.560
Like I think there not to dwell on this because
1285
01:10:10.560 --> 01:10:12.399
it's been kind of a source of hilarity for you
1286
01:10:12.520 --> 01:10:16.960
and I, But I think we should have known things
1287
01:10:17.039 --> 01:10:18.960
were going to go south for us in the season
1288
01:10:19.439 --> 01:10:22.600
when we played our open. We were the defending champions
1289
01:10:23.079 --> 01:10:26.199
in this two man event and it was as a
1290
01:10:26.920 --> 01:10:30.800
two day tournament. The first nine holes is is a
1291
01:10:30.880 --> 01:10:34.359
scramble and the second nine holes are alternate shot. The
1292
01:10:34.479 --> 01:10:36.840
third the second aid. The second day, the second eighteen
1293
01:10:37.319 --> 01:10:41.399
is our better ball. In the first nine holes, we
1294
01:10:41.479 --> 01:10:43.479
were going along fine first three or four holes, and
1295
01:10:43.479 --> 01:10:46.680
then we went back to back double bogies in a scramble,
1296
01:10:48.000 --> 01:10:49.880
and we knew that's that should.
1297
01:10:49.640 --> 01:10:50.239
Have been the sign.
1298
01:10:51.199 --> 01:10:55.600
Yes, that's like the Mormon guy finding the golden tablets
1299
01:10:55.640 --> 01:10:56.119
on the woods.
1300
01:10:56.680 --> 01:10:58.600
He should have been able to know something's up.
1301
01:11:01.000 --> 01:11:05.479
But that that that dark you know, portend decide.
1302
01:11:06.279 --> 01:11:09.399
When did you feel in the season that things had
1303
01:11:09.520 --> 01:11:13.840
you that you had gotten away from that attitude, that
1304
01:11:13.920 --> 01:11:14.840
it served you so well.
1305
01:11:17.600 --> 01:11:22.319
Well, you know, I didn't really, it didn't really dawn
1306
01:11:22.479 --> 01:11:23.680
on me until.
1307
01:11:26.119 --> 01:11:31.880
Probably, uh, probably in a tournament that I was in
1308
01:11:31.960 --> 01:11:33.560
a tournament in Sudbury with.
1309
01:11:33.800 --> 01:11:39.800
Uh with with Dan and John and a couple of
1310
01:11:39.840 --> 01:11:41.720
your buddies, couple of my buddies.
1311
01:11:41.800 --> 01:11:45.880
Yeah, and uh, it didn't really dawn on me until
1312
01:11:45.920 --> 01:11:52.159
then that uh, that something was seriously a miss with
1313
01:11:52.279 --> 01:11:53.000
my attitude.
1314
01:11:54.359 --> 01:11:57.119
How did it manifest itself? What was the epiphany?
1315
01:11:58.640 --> 01:11:59.880
Just you know, the.
1316
01:12:00.039 --> 01:12:03.159
Epiphany was probably.
1317
01:12:05.439 --> 01:12:09.640
Standing on a on on a t shot being you know,
1318
01:12:11.720 --> 01:12:18.960
absolutely and utterly afraid of hooking the Beejesus out of
1319
01:12:19.039 --> 01:12:22.720
this ball and hitting it into the ship. After they
1320
01:12:22.800 --> 01:12:25.600
had both hit it was a scramble, it was a
1321
01:12:25.680 --> 01:12:28.800
three man, three day scramble, and they had both hit
1322
01:12:30.039 --> 01:12:32.399
you know, mediocre tea shots for them, So it was
1323
01:12:32.399 --> 01:12:36.199
an opportunity for me to step up and do something.
1324
01:12:36.399 --> 01:12:41.279
And I was like almost fucking paralyzed. Wow, And it
1325
01:12:41.439 --> 01:12:44.359
was like come on, man, I mean, like I think
1326
01:12:44.439 --> 01:12:48.439
that was the moment where I said to myself, boy,
1327
01:12:48.520 --> 01:12:54.159
you've you've gotten off the scratch attitude train here and
1328
01:12:54.319 --> 01:12:58.880
you've you know, you've you've stepped onto the you bought
1329
01:12:58.920 --> 01:12:59.840
a ticket to suffering.
1330
01:13:01.520 --> 01:13:05.399
Well, I mean, there's no golfer listening to this, myself
1331
01:13:05.479 --> 01:13:08.560
included obviously that hasn't felt.
1332
01:13:10.800 --> 01:13:10.840
That.
1333
01:13:11.279 --> 01:13:14.119
I was going to say, not just the suffering, obviously,
1334
01:13:14.279 --> 01:13:17.680
but the almost utter despair. And that's what it is.
1335
01:13:17.760 --> 01:13:19.359
It sounds like you're describing something.
1336
01:13:19.800 --> 01:13:22.760
It's like if we weren't talking about golf, someone would
1337
01:13:22.920 --> 01:13:24.960
think that we were a couple of surgeons, and like
1338
01:13:25.079 --> 01:13:28.399
you were talking about an operation that had gone horribly wrong,
1339
01:13:28.920 --> 01:13:31.119
and you're like about to open up somebody's brain and
1340
01:13:31.199 --> 01:13:34.560
you're like, I just felt completely paralyzed. You're talking about
1341
01:13:34.560 --> 01:13:38.920
a t shot in a fucking scramble in Sudbury. Yeah,
1342
01:13:39.479 --> 01:13:44.600
but that's it's that feeling of helpless despair or despondent,
1343
01:13:44.720 --> 01:13:49.000
whatever it is. And no matter how good you are
1344
01:13:50.039 --> 01:13:54.039
and what you've done, we're all open. I think you
1345
01:13:54.039 --> 01:13:58.920
would agree, we're all we're all open to those kind
1346
01:13:58.960 --> 01:14:01.720
of things flooding into our games if we're not vigilant.
1347
01:14:02.720 --> 01:14:06.359
Yeah, well, it's kind of like I mean, for me,
1348
01:14:06.960 --> 01:14:10.960
you know, what's really been been highlighted is how much
1349
01:14:11.079 --> 01:14:16.239
this my approach to the game. I was going to
1350
01:14:16.239 --> 01:14:18.840
say mental approach, but it's really a spiritual approach. It's
1351
01:14:18.880 --> 01:14:26.439
really you know, it's attempting to, you know, really embrace
1352
01:14:26.600 --> 01:14:29.279
the whole idea of being playful when you're out there.
1353
01:14:30.960 --> 01:14:36.279
How much that approach is well two things really.
1354
01:14:37.520 --> 01:14:41.880
First of all, it's it's bumping against the culture of golf,
1355
01:14:42.079 --> 01:14:47.640
which is constantly messaging you to it's all about performance,
1356
01:14:47.680 --> 01:14:50.119
it's all about getting better, it's all about being some
1357
01:14:50.319 --> 01:14:53.840
kind of a facsimile of a tour pro. And the
1358
01:14:53.960 --> 01:14:56.079
other thing is that if I let it go in
1359
01:14:56.159 --> 01:14:58.000
the same way that if I you know, if I
1360
01:14:58.079 --> 01:15:00.760
don't do any exercise. You know, so if I eat
1361
01:15:00.840 --> 01:15:04.520
at if I eat at a Chinese buffet that shall
1362
01:15:04.560 --> 01:15:07.760
be unmentioned twice a day every day for.
1363
01:15:07.840 --> 01:15:10.479
The next month, then chances are my health is going
1364
01:15:10.560 --> 01:15:11.199
to deteriorate.
1365
01:15:11.359 --> 01:15:11.920
Yeah, of course.
1366
01:15:12.760 --> 01:15:14.760
So if I pay, if I.
1367
01:15:14.760 --> 01:15:16.640
Don't pay the kind of attention to it that I
1368
01:15:16.800 --> 01:15:21.119
need to, I'm going to fall into the same traps
1369
01:15:21.119 --> 01:15:21.920
as everybody else.
1370
01:15:23.560 --> 01:15:25.640
Well, it's hard not to worse, Yeah, it's hard not
1371
01:15:25.800 --> 01:15:28.079
to fall into it. I think you said something that
1372
01:15:29.119 --> 01:15:31.039
a lot of listeners will relate to it. It's not
1373
01:15:31.279 --> 01:15:34.560
that the culture of golf is not It's not so
1374
01:15:34.720 --> 01:15:41.800
much everybody's good and you're not good. It's that the
1375
01:15:41.920 --> 01:15:47.159
opportunity to find something to improve is just ubiquitous. You
1376
01:15:47.279 --> 01:15:49.880
can't open a phone, you can't look at X, you
1377
01:15:49.960 --> 01:15:52.760
can't look at Instagram, you can't look at YouTube. If
1378
01:15:52.800 --> 01:15:56.039
you're golfing without your If you're a golfer and the algorithm,
1379
01:15:57.279 --> 01:16:01.039
pardon me, if the algorithm is feeding you what you're
1380
01:16:01.119 --> 01:16:05.319
asking it for. In most golfers cases, it's just another
1381
01:16:05.439 --> 01:16:10.039
it's a barrage every day of this idea that you're
1382
01:16:10.119 --> 01:16:11.520
not good enough, but.
1383
01:16:11.640 --> 01:16:12.439
You could be better.
1384
01:16:13.520 --> 01:16:16.840
Yes, if you if you just did this thing, you
1385
01:16:16.920 --> 01:16:19.600
could be better, which whether they maybe the good enough
1386
01:16:19.640 --> 01:16:23.520
part isn't right. But it's that idea that it's implicit
1387
01:16:23.640 --> 01:16:25.560
that maybe there's something wrong with you, and if you
1388
01:16:25.720 --> 01:16:27.960
just do this thing with your golf swing, all will
1389
01:16:28.000 --> 01:16:28.600
be revealed.
1390
01:16:29.680 --> 01:16:30.680
I remember.
1391
01:16:31.920 --> 01:16:37.199
Years ago Justin Rose when he was the number one
1392
01:16:37.319 --> 01:16:42.319
golfer in the world, he switched to Hanma. Yes right,
1393
01:16:43.640 --> 01:16:47.920
and Hanma had an ad and so it shows Justin
1394
01:16:48.079 --> 01:16:51.960
Rose holding up his driver and he holds his driver
1395
01:16:52.119 --> 01:16:55.000
in front of you know, extends his arm holds it
1396
01:16:55.039 --> 01:16:57.119
out so that you can see you the viewer can
1397
01:16:57.199 --> 01:17:01.640
see the Hanma label on the driver head and he
1398
01:17:01.880 --> 01:17:04.960
and he basically says, I switch to get better.
1399
01:17:05.840 --> 01:17:11.199
What about you? You know the number one.
1400
01:17:12.399 --> 01:17:14.479
That's right, I'm the best in the world.
1401
01:17:14.600 --> 01:17:15.000
You suck?
1402
01:17:15.079 --> 01:17:16.199
What are you going to do about it?
1403
01:17:17.399 --> 01:17:22.600
So, and you know, it's a it's insidious in part because.
1404
01:17:23.920 --> 01:17:28.520
I believe that there are two two forces animating us
1405
01:17:28.560 --> 01:17:31.079
all the time. Let's let's call them spirit and soul.
1406
01:17:32.680 --> 01:17:36.680
And the spirit idea is this is this idea that
1407
01:17:36.840 --> 01:17:40.039
you know, life wants us to grow and to expand
1408
01:17:40.239 --> 01:17:43.640
and to be creative and to improve. And the soul
1409
01:17:43.800 --> 01:17:48.279
idea is this is there is that part of us
1410
01:17:48.359 --> 01:17:52.079
wants to just you know, be happy with life as
1411
01:17:52.119 --> 01:17:54.199
it is, you know, appreciate the.
1412
01:17:54.279 --> 01:17:59.079
Moment as it is. So the idea of getting better
1413
01:17:59.279 --> 01:18:01.159
is kind of big into who we are. It's a
1414
01:18:01.279 --> 01:18:02.640
natural thing. It's a good thing.
1415
01:18:03.800 --> 01:18:07.399
And you know, not that I would really know, but
1416
01:18:07.479 --> 01:18:11.359
I would assume that that tapping into that is absolutely
1417
01:18:11.520 --> 01:18:13.399
essential if you're going to be on the PGA tour.
1418
01:18:15.119 --> 01:18:19.600
Well for us, you know, if it in the culture
1419
01:18:19.640 --> 01:18:22.079
of golf, it's it's all spirit and no soul.
1420
01:18:22.800 --> 01:18:25.520
It's all well, going back to your formula, I think
1421
01:18:25.560 --> 01:18:29.880
it's eighty twenty. I think that within within every golfer,
1422
01:18:30.720 --> 01:18:35.800
that is part of the struggle, because the soulful part
1423
01:18:35.840 --> 01:18:39.520
of us all when given error, I mean, we can
1424
01:18:39.600 --> 01:18:43.760
all appreciate, you know, a beautiful vista looking out at
1425
01:18:43.920 --> 01:18:46.279
you know, looking down, you know, from the tee down
1426
01:18:46.359 --> 01:18:49.359
into a valley where the creek is there and it
1427
01:18:49.479 --> 01:18:52.239
winds to the writing. There's there's beauty all around us.
1428
01:18:53.279 --> 01:18:57.039
And but but but most golfers, you know, when we've
1429
01:18:57.079 --> 01:19:00.000
all been guilty of it, where we spend too much time.
1430
01:19:00.000 --> 01:19:04.800
I'm in the the pursuant, the pursuit of something that's
1431
01:19:04.920 --> 01:19:07.560
just out there on the horizon and that we think
1432
01:19:07.640 --> 01:19:10.600
will give us what we want, which is already present,
1433
01:19:10.680 --> 01:19:12.279
which is enjoying the moment.
1434
01:19:13.199 --> 01:19:15.079
And that's I think a struggle.
1435
01:19:14.680 --> 01:19:18.199
For a lot of us. That's you know what, that's
1436
01:19:18.239 --> 01:19:19.840
a very very wise statement.
1437
01:19:19.960 --> 01:19:22.960
It's we think it's going to bring us something that's
1438
01:19:23.039 --> 01:19:24.239
actually already present, that.
1439
01:19:24.279 --> 01:19:24.840
We already have.
1440
01:19:26.239 --> 01:19:29.640
You know, I've I'm a follower of Sam Harrison. I've
1441
01:19:29.640 --> 01:19:32.039
been using his Waking Up app for a few years now,
1442
01:19:32.119 --> 01:19:34.760
three years at least, and he always talks about that
1443
01:19:34.840 --> 01:19:39.319
and the guided meditation that everyone thinks to meditate is
1444
01:19:39.399 --> 01:19:41.720
to actually do something, but an actual fact.
1445
01:19:41.880 --> 01:19:44.279
It's to learn. It's to learn that you've already got
1446
01:19:44.319 --> 01:19:47.920
everything that you need. It's to that's you already have it.
1447
01:19:48.000 --> 01:19:51.439
You're already there. You're already if you just let it happen,
1448
01:19:51.560 --> 01:19:52.000
it's there.
1449
01:19:52.439 --> 01:19:52.560
You know.
1450
01:19:52.640 --> 01:19:54.079
I was going to say as we wrap up.
1451
01:19:54.039 --> 01:19:57.000
Here, you know, you and I played early in the
1452
01:19:57.119 --> 01:20:00.479
year in that tournament, and we play quite a bit
1453
01:20:00.520 --> 01:20:04.239
through the season. I've never seen you get I've played
1454
01:20:04.279 --> 01:20:06.439
golf with you now for several years. I've never seen
1455
01:20:06.520 --> 01:20:10.680
you display anything but a great attitude. And you're always
1456
01:20:10.720 --> 01:20:13.039
a great guy to play with, whether you're playing, whether
1457
01:20:13.119 --> 01:20:15.239
either of us are. Like the day that we made
1458
01:20:15.319 --> 01:20:18.000
back to back doubles in the scramble, we were laughing
1459
01:20:18.039 --> 01:20:21.239
our fucking heads off, like it just seems so absurd.
1460
01:20:22.279 --> 01:20:23.840
Secretly I was blaming you, But.
1461
01:20:26.479 --> 01:20:27.520
Well, isn't that interesting?
1462
01:20:27.560 --> 01:20:30.439
Because I kept thinking, when is this guy gonna stop choking?
1463
01:20:31.199 --> 01:20:33.880
But we had I think, you know, we had even
1464
01:20:33.920 --> 01:20:37.079
though we sucked, we had a great time, And I
1465
01:20:37.520 --> 01:20:39.880
was going to get to that we played our last
1466
01:20:40.000 --> 01:20:44.960
round together not that long ago, we played a place
1467
01:20:45.039 --> 01:20:47.760
called kings Riding. I'd never played it before. It was
1468
01:20:47.800 --> 01:20:51.680
a cold fall day, a little bit windy, but we
1469
01:20:51.840 --> 01:20:55.479
walked and we got paired up with these two dudes
1470
01:20:56.960 --> 01:21:00.479
that we just had so much fun playing with them. Yeah,
1471
01:21:01.399 --> 01:21:04.279
there are two Chinese guys. One guy could barely speak English,
1472
01:21:04.800 --> 01:21:08.239
both from like Mandarin I think was their language. And
1473
01:21:08.319 --> 01:21:11.119
we and they and they couldn't have been better guys
1474
01:21:11.159 --> 01:21:13.680
to play with. And we had a riot with these
1475
01:21:13.720 --> 01:21:14.239
two guys.
1476
01:21:15.039 --> 01:21:18.880
They laid a mean dumpling on us that it was.
1477
01:21:19.359 --> 01:21:22.039
We get to the tenth team, We're waiting to tee off,
1478
01:21:22.399 --> 01:21:24.159
and you know, I'm saying to Ken, yeah, I've got
1479
01:21:24.199 --> 01:21:26.880
an apple or I've got something, because usually Ken and
1480
01:21:26.960 --> 01:21:29.960
I will, you know, bring something to eat and share
1481
01:21:29.960 --> 01:21:30.640
it with each other.
1482
01:21:30.920 --> 01:21:33.600
I know, that's how cute we are. But these guys,
1483
01:21:34.680 --> 01:21:36.600
I think one was Alex, the other guy was.
1484
01:21:38.239 --> 01:21:40.399
It's funny. I can I remember Alex's name because he
1485
01:21:40.479 --> 01:21:43.560
was so effusive. But they they before we tea off,
1486
01:21:43.600 --> 01:21:45.600
they go, hey, would you guys like something to eat?
1487
01:21:45.640 --> 01:21:51.319
And he pulls out these dim sum dumplings which were delicious.
1488
01:21:51.960 --> 01:21:55.720
Top drawer Ken and I are freaking out as we
1489
01:21:55.800 --> 01:21:58.840
love Chinese food, and it was just the spirit of
1490
01:21:58.920 --> 01:22:02.119
the day, and you know, we walked and had I
1491
01:22:02.199 --> 01:22:04.520
will say this though, Buddy, I was so sore.
1492
01:22:05.960 --> 01:22:08.520
The next day because I you know, I.
1493
01:22:08.560 --> 01:22:10.359
Said to you before we cheat off Ago, I said,
1494
01:22:10.359 --> 01:22:11.840
I don't think I've played her, and you said I have.
1495
01:22:11.960 --> 01:22:13.800
I said, Look, is it a tough walk? You're like, no,
1496
01:22:13.920 --> 01:22:14.439
it's not bad.
1497
01:22:14.720 --> 01:22:14.960
It was.
1498
01:22:15.600 --> 01:22:16.560
It was ridiculous.
1499
01:22:17.239 --> 01:22:20.159
You're just going up and down hills all day, up
1500
01:22:20.239 --> 01:22:24.000
and down hills to tea boxes anyway, But that there's
1501
01:22:24.039 --> 01:22:27.960
a perfect example of the soul of the game being
1502
01:22:28.039 --> 01:22:32.600
more at the forefront than the spirit, you know. And
1503
01:22:32.920 --> 01:22:35.680
I think it's sometimes those extremes where it's like late
1504
01:22:35.720 --> 01:22:38.199
in this season, you've kind of as a golf for
1505
01:22:38.399 --> 01:22:41.680
giving up trying to like, Okay, well this is the
1506
01:22:41.760 --> 01:22:43.680
year I'm going to do this. The year is over,
1507
01:22:43.840 --> 01:22:47.560
so all there's all that's left unless you're psychotic.
1508
01:22:48.640 --> 01:22:50.720
Is this is the soul of the game.
1509
01:22:51.319 --> 01:22:52.880
Yeah, it's just a bonus to be there.
1510
01:22:56.800 --> 01:22:58.960
So what about next year? Now that this year's passed,
1511
01:22:59.039 --> 01:23:03.920
let's wrap it up by asking, okay, so we get
1512
01:23:03.960 --> 01:23:06.600
all these goals for the summer and for the most part,
1513
01:23:07.000 --> 01:23:09.880
by the way that three man tournament canse referring to you,
1514
01:23:10.000 --> 01:23:10.479
guys won.
1515
01:23:10.560 --> 01:23:12.479
So you had a had some victory.
1516
01:23:12.880 --> 01:23:14.840
Yeah, you know, it was a it was a it
1517
01:23:14.960 --> 01:23:18.000
was a that was a special that was a very
1518
01:23:18.119 --> 01:23:22.359
very special time for me for sure.
1519
01:23:22.600 --> 01:23:26.319
And so what about twenty twenty six, Well, for twenty
1520
01:23:26.399 --> 01:23:28.479
twenty six, I would think.
1521
01:23:29.840 --> 01:23:34.720
Wisdom would be getting back into my lane, you know,
1522
01:23:35.880 --> 01:23:37.520
attempting to do what I do to.
1523
01:23:39.119 --> 01:23:42.119
To be you know, eighty twenty on the side of.
1524
01:23:43.640 --> 01:23:48.000
Enjoying my game as it is and being playful when
1525
01:23:48.039 --> 01:23:55.439
it's my turn to play, and twenty percent being you know,
1526
01:23:55.600 --> 01:23:58.600
intentional about attempting to post the best score.
1527
01:23:58.359 --> 01:24:01.000
That I can and see what happens.
1528
01:24:01.279 --> 01:24:03.960
Well, I think you said invest earlier in the conversation
1529
01:24:04.119 --> 01:24:09.039
that in twenty twenty four, when you were sort of
1530
01:24:09.199 --> 01:24:11.119
more focused, more committed to the.
1531
01:24:11.800 --> 01:24:14.079
Aspiring for the champions Store, let's just tell it.
1532
01:24:14.159 --> 01:24:16.159
Where it was, you know, no, what I was gonna say,
1533
01:24:16.159 --> 01:24:18.479
No last year, not this year. So two years ago,
1534
01:24:18.560 --> 01:24:20.920
in twenty twenty four, when you were more when you
1535
01:24:21.039 --> 01:24:26.960
were in your lane. The irony is it produced better golf. Yeah, yeah,
1536
01:24:27.119 --> 01:24:27.680
isn't that weird?
1537
01:24:27.760 --> 01:24:30.159
Eh, I don't think it's weird.
1538
01:24:30.199 --> 01:24:32.560
I think it's like for ten years we've been trying
1539
01:24:32.600 --> 01:24:35.199
to get people's heads around the fact that, you know,
1540
01:24:36.039 --> 01:24:40.000
it's like this guy that sends emails whenever his signature
1541
01:24:40.159 --> 01:24:43.399
is play great or be or be great to play with.
1542
01:24:44.119 --> 01:24:46.039
But I think I think there's a corollary to that,
1543
01:24:46.159 --> 01:24:48.560
which is play great, be great to play with, but
1544
01:24:48.680 --> 01:24:50.359
be great, be good to yourself.
1545
01:24:51.159 --> 01:24:54.039
That's it, man, It's be great to be great to yourself.
1546
01:24:54.159 --> 01:24:55.239
Be great to yourself.
1547
01:24:55.479 --> 01:24:59.640
Yeah, yeah, you know, be be kind, to be accepting
1548
01:24:59.680 --> 01:25:02.680
to your self. Be be happy when it when a
1549
01:25:02.720 --> 01:25:03.960
shot happens, to work out.
1550
01:25:04.239 --> 01:25:05.239
Give yourself grace.
1551
01:25:05.520 --> 01:25:05.920
I love that.
1552
01:25:06.199 --> 01:25:10.640
I mean, not religiously, but to be to give yourself
1553
01:25:10.760 --> 01:25:13.199
the grace that you would give somebody else.
1554
01:25:14.000 --> 01:25:14.279
Mm hm.
1555
01:25:15.720 --> 01:25:20.760
And you know what, as uh, as I proved last year,
1556
01:25:22.319 --> 01:25:27.479
it's easy to uh, it's easy to get sucked into
1557
01:25:27.640 --> 01:25:33.000
the mainstream messaging and you know, be as.
1558
01:25:34.399 --> 01:25:36.199
Frustrated as anybody else out there.
1559
01:25:36.920 --> 01:25:39.600
Well, thank you for this, Tim, this time, this chat,
1560
01:25:40.319 --> 01:25:43.399
this Tim, thank you for this as always.
1561
01:25:43.760 --> 01:25:43.880
Uh.
1562
01:25:44.039 --> 01:25:45.840
If you want to find out more, Kent's got a
1563
01:25:45.880 --> 01:25:49.279
couple of books out there. One is called.
1564
01:25:51.000 --> 01:25:55.800
I Played with scratch Attitude was something like, I'm terrible
1565
01:25:55.880 --> 01:25:57.119
at this. Now, what's it called?
1566
01:25:57.159 --> 01:25:57.800
Something like that?
1567
01:25:58.960 --> 01:26:01.760
You know what? It's a it's an e book on
1568
01:26:01.840 --> 01:26:03.479
the line, and I've changed the title of A three
1569
01:26:03.560 --> 01:26:03.760
or four.
1570
01:26:03.920 --> 01:26:07.159
That's why I remember, even remember, I know it's.
1571
01:26:07.079 --> 01:26:12.199
Called getting Unstuck seven. Highly effective. Look up at scratch
1572
01:26:12.359 --> 01:26:17.000
Attitude on x and other social platforms. Thanks Ken, everybuddy.
1573
01:26:17.159 --> 01:26:17.920
Always a pleasure.